subtlety

[keen dome]

I could hit 260 if I spent crests I think.

but I don't wanna

[warm marlin]

pvp lets you buy conq pieces on champ track as well btw if you need things to spend champ on to unlock the free upgrade for a hero piece

if you aren't doing the extra socket stuff

[fiery junco]

It’s 9%

[shrewd lantern]

If you have a hero tier helm get the item to turn it into pvp tier so you can socket it

clearly

[warm marlin]

true

[rich canopy]

Are you supposed to keep backstabbing at full CP before SecTec is up?

[sullen hare]

This man is playing subtlety 2.0

[keen dome]

come on man, you've got two empty slots.

[craggy thunder]

does anyone know if u are M+ spec does black powder cleave do more than vs just shadow strike on 1 single target?

black powder with 2 targets vs shadowstrike with 1 target basically

[mint bobcat]

I think the idea is you don't want to use a finisher before it so yea backstabbing at max CP makes sense in those cases

Someone correct me if I'm way off base

[inner prairie]

Would depend how long until SecTec has to be up. Can you send a finisher and have CP back for it's CD?

[sullen hare]

Erm? You're mixing builders and spenders there

[rich canopy]

It's super unclear, but another Rogue with similar ilevel is killing me

[umbral cliff]

during lust in raids you go for shadowstrike /evis/shadowstrike/evis or shadowstrike/evis/evis?

[stuck arrow]

You got a log?

[rich canopy]

I'm holding full CP for ~3 seconds before SecTec and getting ~30-40% less backstabs and way lower Unseen Blade damage, but more SecTec (that aren't making up for it)

I'll get one in a bit

[stuck arrow]

Straight up - I doubt your issues are outside of dance.

[mint bobcat]

Yea was gonna say if you are falling behind it's going to be shadow dance mistakes

[rich canopy]

Numbers inside of dance are equal

[stuck arrow]

It's just such a low proportion of damage.

[clear osprey]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[rich canopy]

It's entirely a difference in Backstab + Unseen Blade damage

Which is why I was confused, that's what I thought as well

[shrewd lantern]

backstab doesnt do shit

[mint bobcat]

What's your characters name I'd be really interested what your warcraft logs actually look like. Find it hard to believe backstab damage would make that big of a difference.

[stuck arrow]

My guy. That's like 5% of damage. If you're getting killed you're don't something else wrong.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5yE5B63R2JmVZ6nt67qBVr

[mint bobcat]

You can sit on a dummy and just AA outside of shadow dances and the damage difference from actually back stabbing and using finishers is hillariouslly low

[shrewd lantern]

press bs to not overcap

mostly tbh

[inner prairie]

This right here is my biggest negative to the spec, I get it's by design but it feels bad.

[umbral cliff]

how is raid single target rotation during lust?

[spiral needle]

That's the wrong mindset then. Doing less damage outside burst means doing bigger burst which is almost always better

[inner prairie]

I understand that mechanically, but outside doesn't feel impactful is all. But the low creates a better high when Dance is up I know.

[shrewd lantern]

downtime is very low anyway

dance is like 8 globals

cd is 20

[hazy breach]

Pretty much exactly the same as without lust

[sage ivy]

target dummy sims are shitting on my own 5 min dummy dmg. is there a reason except git gud?

im simming 42k and getting 35k

[spiral needle]

did you turn off raid buffs?

[sage ivy]

yeah target dummy sims do that automatically

[spiral needle]

Sub is very easy to do sim DPS now, so you are def missing something

[sage ivy]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rFWNvaGVTjyDm8R1?fight=last&source=6&type=casts&view=timeline
would appreciate a look through cuz im not finding anything major

[spiral needle]

immediatley on pull

you danced and sec teched before sblades

already a big red flag

[sage ivy]

this has historically been fine, anything changed?

unless ive always been misplaying it. but i remember seeing logs do this and assuming its because sectech dmg is delayed

[spiral needle]

nowadays you sblades/haste trinket, and then dance/sec tech very shortly after

[sage ivy]

yeah looks like a 17k hit is missing sb

[spiral needle]

that alone wouldnt explain why so low though

[sage ivy]

ye

[spiral needle]

nothing else seems wildly off without really digging into it

[trail bison]

i was looking at logs for this and most people are just sending b2b dances although they have the haste for it (also in BL). I also have the haste and during BL you get about 2 seconds left of blades with dance + ST.

[spiral needle]

does ingame details show the same thing? maybe log acting weird

[sage ivy]

yeah same numbers, logged because i was confused

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/71qqw2Nd9ZRUdCSDdEXSGt
comparing to this

[spiral needle]

id say compare # of casts, damage %s, buff uptimes, etc to the sim

[sage ivy]

yeah ill keep digging cheers for the help

[pure jay]

!log

[spiral needle]

at a glance your cast count is def low compared to the sim

[fervent plover]

guys, what are the m+ talents?

[stuck arrow]

You drop lots of gcds in dance. Lose out on casts of high efficiency abilities, and the dance damage amp.

Cast order right, execution is sloppy.

Keep practicing, get faster and get used to spell queueing. If your used to other classes it will feel very fast because rogue gcd is shorter.

[sage ivy]

thanks! is there a good way to check whether im missing casts in dance so I can check in the future?

[light hull]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[light hull]

How is the Ancient Arts optimization with Trickster? Only with Coupe de Gras?

[warm marlin]

Supercharged combo point as it says

Which often ends up being coup

[light hull]

Si mostly just after ST? Because activating SD gives you supercharged and ST is consuming one

[warm marlin]

Yes

[mint bobcat]

Macro all this stuff together and you wont miss globals

[pure jay]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[light hull]

I tried but it often fails to me in pull, if I macro SB,SD and ST

Si I end up using SB, then SD ST macro

[pure jay]

Si?

[mint bobcat]

Only issues ive run into is if you arent in melee range for the ST otherwise works perfectly for me

[tulip light]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[quiet condor]

Hey dudes, any idea if i should be upgrading heroic raid dagger to 6/6 ?

[stuck arrow]

Well thats mostly just experience and trying to play fast. Not something I really think about personally. But if you've got lots of casts more than 1s apart + latency that's lost damage.

But also you're just not pressing your CDs on time every time. That's your #1 priority - get SecTec out right when it's up every time, not a second late, and have a dance with it.

[keen kayak]

Hi guys, is there anywhere I could get some help with logs?

[stuck arrow]

See how there's not an equidistance between these? And some sectecs don't have dance? Fix that. @sage ivy

[keen kayak]

Im comparing my logs from last night to one of the top parses with a similar killtime, all looks reasonably similar other than my eviscerate damage being super low

[astral echo]

im having a similar experience rn lol

[inner prairie]

Is there a way for the SD/SecTec macro to show the CD for SecTec and not SD?

[pure jay]

I beat my sim on a target dummy, not sure where I'm struggling on bosses.

[vale pine]

#showtooltip Secret Technique

[pure jay]

📉

[vale pine]

i am sure i made a typo

[inner prairie]

I love you

[grim vessel]

When blades and SecT are both close to coming off cd, my feelcraft is to blow SechT and hold blades for next sechT. Is that right ?

[smoky egret]

So, does anybody actually know why shadow dance drops aggro? I don't see anything anywhere that mentions why it would be doing this. it just drops aggro and makes valeera tank nullaeus.

[west tide]

the world when u get the sylvanas neck with 600 haste and ur problems go away

[warm marlin]

it has a -1000% threat drop modifier since like classic or something

like priest fade

[west tide]

theres a talent i think

[smoky egret]

huh, i've never noticed until this season tbh. weird that it doesn't actually say that.

[grim vessel]

We become translucent to enemies

[vale pine]

you hold dance/secret if blades is off cd soon

[grim vessel]

Thx. Guess I should read APL

[fervent plover]

but why macro sd and sectec together, sometimes u need to hold sectec for next pack no?

or not sectec, shadow blades

[grim vessel]

Need more macros

[smoky egret]

Honestly it's super frustrating because you basically have to sandbag on nullaeus so valeera doesn't die. it makes fade to nothing talent 100% useless for that fight.

[fervent plover]

oh my bad my brain just didnt brain

[warm marlin]

you can still kill him by just having her take aggro the entire fight and rezzing her when she dies

[grim vessel]

I would let her die just as she dropped 3 health orbs, to stay alive while she's dead. Or sprint kite, evasion, etc

[warm marlin]

last time i killed her i put perma tricks on her

and just let her die like 7 times

[urban heron]

am I out of my mind or does Black Power or Find Weakness just not show up in the cooldown manager?

[smoky egret]

I had a 13% wipe becuase i ran out of stuff to get her back up and i just fell over

didn't have evasion.

[warm marlin]

you can't dodge while channeling rez anyway as far as I could tell

[grim vessel]

Gotta make sure you have evasion up for last 10-15%

[warm marlin]

you just have to click rez instantly as she dies so that he only gets to auto you 1-2 times

[grim vessel]

He starts to do 260k+ hits

[smoky egret]

it worked once, or i just got insanely lucky.

[warm marlin]

and hope cheats up

[warm marlin]

i have 100% been hit during evasion while facing him, but sometimes he does just seem to miss

it's a bit strange

[grim vessel]

He has like 18% miss chance from my loga

[warm marlin]

ye that would do it

[grim vessel]

I brute forced that garbage fight until i got a lucky run with dodges / parries/ misses at the right times

Feels like you have so little control over the end result

[smoky egret]

I'm just glad i got hall of fame kill on my frost mage first lmao. did that fight in 3 attempts

melee is just such a different world on that fight

[warm marlin]

before valeera nerf it was a one pull fight

which is how i did it the first time

[grim vessel]

My clothie friends were getting meleed for like 50k on ??

[warm marlin]

you put tricks on her and she just tanked the entire thing without dying from start to finish

quite hilarious

[smoky egret]

my health was still rubber banding on my mage, but barriers and ice colds as frost just goes so hard. 2 charges is amazing.

I will never understand why boomkins are so squishy to physical damage, was watching my friend do it in like identical gear i had and he was just rubber banding to like 1% every melee hit. everything points that boomkins should be tankier to that kind of damage but they're just not

[grim vessel]

Nellaeus was a low effort design imo, especially compared to princess who was awesome and even the tww s1 boss who still had some of this white-hit survival check

[warm marlin]

yeah kyveza was genuinely very fun and nullaeus was white hit simulator

[weak gazelle]

Can someone check my logs and lmk what I’m doing wrong? I can’t seem to time my shadow blades well it feels in some fights

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/bleeding-hollow/yeetify

[swift tinsel]

the fact you could ignore two out of three add waves entirely

[smoky egret]

Kyveza was a goated delve fight. was a lot of fun.

[ripe flame]

Liked kyveza way more, this felt like just trying to survive the inevitable melee autos demise

[swift tinsel]

and face no danger

was wild

[smoky egret]

I still think zekvir was the worst one though. because some classes legit just couldn't handle the double kick. Dot + boss heal

[swift tinsel]

underpin king was the worst, hands-down

[grim vessel]

Ya that was a dumb oversight. More fun boss design though

[swift tinsel]

between the zoning on the add spawns and footbombs spawning outside the arena

[warm marlin]

i think underpin was a better fight than nullaeus

[grim vessel]

Annoying and tedious, but more exciting than null imo

[swift tinsel]

well yeah, nullaeus is objectively a non-starter

[keen dome]

Fond memories of my kill of the Underpin happening because brann got physically stuck in the wall and this made the fight easier.

[grim vessel]

The others also had more thematic fun and buildup

Princess must be the GOAT of mmo solo content?

[sage ivy]

for anyone curious, i managed to beat my target dummy sims after eating haste food that brought my SD duration to 7.4 instead of 7.3 even when making rotational mistakes. Dont know if that was all it was but im doing something right at least

[keen dome]

Brawlers pub, imo

[smoky egret]

I hope they lean more into the punishing cool mechanics side of delve bosses rather than "haha boss melee damage gear check"

[warm marlin]

kyveza felt like an easy elden ring fight

[keen dome]

Ky'veza was very good though, but Brawlpub in the past had some absolute banger fights

[warm marlin]

which means it was

[keen dome]

Also some of the FF14 Bozja duels come to mind

Holy shit those are fun

[smoky egret]

hexos my beloved.

[keen dome]

Hexos!!!

[grim vessel]

Oh man when was brawlers in last

[swift tinsel]

week 1 kyveza ?? is 100% one of my proudest wow accomplishments

[keen dome]

Huge

I'm sad I gave up at 23%

[swift tinsel]

hexos fight gave me headaches but man it was amazing

[grim vessel]

Kyveza was awesome because it never felt like you were getting gear checked. Just had to execute

[smoky egret]

hexos was so anti clicker lmao

[keen dome]

But I was playing Assa for it 'cos Sub was driving me mad with the fucking brann issues

[swift tinsel]

fighting the boss and the camera/floorpov

[keen dome]

Yeah it fucking owned. People doing it before the season launched were amazing

[swift tinsel]

yeah that kind of fight is my absolute favorite

why I like soulsborne games a lot bc you can just learn the fight and go

[smoky egret]

hexos was the gatekeeper of the brawls. I feel like people passed that fight maybe like every 1/15 times i saw it.

[swift tinsel]

hone til you get it

then feel good because you put in the work and got it

[keen dome]

I am still very proud of clearing every brawlpub fight back in WoD and MoP

[grim vessel]

Null is the opposite...I degened sprint kiting, all kinds of crap but most of my deaths were white hits that dont have a clear solution

[warm marlin]

yeah the only bad part of kyveza was pressing dance and having brann run the wrong way during portal drops

[keen dome]

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

yuppppp

[keen dome]

I feel that's more a general problem with WoW combat design and Shadow Dance than specifically the fight. Like, it shows how they need to redesign it.

[smoky egret]

What, you don't love watching brann run or disengage to death?

[swift tinsel]

they should just remove the threat dump

there's no reason to have it

we have tricks

[keen dome]

Doing it on pull and watching the boss run off to hit Brann "cool, thanks brann"

[swift tinsel]

yeah

then he resets it

[keen dome]

And sometimes brann woudl break and just disengage into a black hole and die

[swift tinsel]

bc he runs across gods green earth

[grim vessel]

Before I realized purple zones are negligible dmg in Null, I was so tilted that dance would make valeera tank (usually in purple zones)

[swift tinsel]

lmao same

[smoky egret]

Knowing that dance has a -1000% threat mod explains a lot of shenanigans over the years in hindsight to me. I can't believe i never really put 2 and 2 together.

[keen dome]

Doing a real good pull and hearing the brann death line and immediately being VERY confused how he even fucking died when nothing was happening

[smoky egret]

but because it doesn't say it does it it's hard to say i should have known.

[warm marlin]

wow tooltips

[west tide]

with 4p sometimes my dance falls off right before my shadowblades end and the next sectech comes up

need…even…more..HASTE

chat we need 1000

[warm marlin]

need guidon

not more haste

[west tide]

frick man

[swift tinsel]

its literal -10 million threat lol

[keen dome]

i love guidon

I summon flag. Then I go fast because the race has begun

[west tide]

maybe the dungeon feather decent enough..

[swift tinsel]

I've been really vibing with the skyreach trinket

granted no good on-use yet

[raven sail]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale osprey]

With Guidon (250 lfr) I have like 1.1k, with 4p I'll have like 4 seconds of blades left by the time 2nd sectec comes up

[thin sinew]

Has anyone found a way of making the spell aura more 'visable' like a border or anything as it being pure black in some situations makes it impossible to see at least for me

[west tide]

need that

[vale osprey]

For ancient arts?

You can track the buff with cooldown manager

[marble sail]

im locked in gang

[keen dome]

huge

[vale osprey]

So just put an icon somewhere you'll see it

[thin sinew]

ye

[raven sail]

Hello, do we craft a second embellishment or not?

[thin sinew]

well the aura is good rather than filling my screen with buffs. just seems a bit silly being completely black and not like a type of purple like our clones or something so it's more visable

[vale osprey]

Well can't change that but you can put an icon which is fine there's like 3 things you need to track

[dapper stirrup]

How good is the emberwing feather?

[grave summit]

Might be a silly question, but does Cloak of Shadow trigger "dispel" mechanics like clearing the floor on Chimera boss?

[broken saffron]

I don't think im getting accepted into normals let alone M+

[rain hull]

any addon to track the Vessel Trinket? mby even a notice when a soul spawns?

[lilac stag]

👉 🗑️

[wraith dawn]

I asked around earlier for this in other discs, pretty sure that whatever triggers the vessel is hidden, as it doesn’t show up on the buffs in top right, meaning there’s no way to track it now.

[swift tinsel]

^

it only shows souls you've picked up as an aura

[wraith dawn]

Which is ass, because when raiding last night it was impossible to see if we were all stacked and pools everywhere

[swift tinsel]

yep its not the most raid-viable trinket

[jade urchin]

im sticking to crucible fs

cant bother with the souls

tried it on alleria hc

[dull sierra]

I'll just have to get a Gaze then

[swift tinsel]

ew

I'm probs gonna aim for a myth skyreach

depending on if we get to myth belo

[lean rover]

Is there any guides for illeterates, pref. with braille

[light hull]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[grim vessel]

oh wow DS is simming 6.6% higher than trick for me

[sweet moss]

its bait

[vale pine]

i am sure it is a joke but Braille is also something you technically read (its defined as a writing system), so i don't think the combination makes sense.

[stone vessel]

what 4pc are we making? or rather not making?

[swift tinsel]

legs for non-tier slot ideally

[vale pine]

you want the 4p

let slot is the weakest because it has a lot of vers

[sweet moss]

are we hard prio haste till 18%?

[frigid ingot]

If i have shadowblades comming up in 30-35, and Sectech+1Dance Up, should i use Dance+Tech and just wait blades 10 seconds?

[vale pine]

we don't prioritize haste, but we want ~650-700 haste (~18%)

[surreal atlas]

Hey guys quick question i'm kind of a noob in sub and i want to know if we have to press slice and dice manually or does it trigger automatically ?

[swift tinsel]

auto

[frigid ingot]

automatic

[vale pine]

you can skip pressing slice and dice

[swift tinsel]

from Cut to the Chase, eviscerate will grant it

[vale pine]

cttc (passive) maintains it for you

[sweet moss]

as in you aim for 18% haste before other stats, for example ring encahnts if im not at 18% haste yet should i use haste enchants

[surreal atlas]

Thank you guys so much ☺️

[lean rover]

i mean you don't always have to right fuu 😭

[undone mesa]

hey all!
Raidbots for rogues sub considerates the 18% haste min to sim others itens?

my simc had go from 18% to 16% and tells me thats is a upgrade

[frigid ingot]

@vale pine if i have 1Dance+SecTech up and 20 seconds till Blades, do i use Dance+Tech and delay Blades for 10 seconds or do i wait for 2Dance+Tech+Blades to line without delay?

[sweet moss]

Still confused fuu, need u to explain ❤️

[sweet moss]

i wouldnt wait 20 seconds personally

but if ur waiting 20

then ur timing is off

psure

[topaz crow]

is there a command for sub opener explained?

[vale pine]

you use dance + secret if you have 20 sec till blades

[frigid ingot]

sectech is every 20 seconds, blades is 90 seconds, for every 4 uses you have 10 seconds left on blades. @sweet moss

thanks!

[vale pine]

*dance + secret

sorry

[pastel quarry]

I got puzzle box last night, after the first one do we offset for another blades or just fire it off when it's available?

[sweet moss]

So if im not at 18% haste, should i prio getting more haste to get closer to 18%? or do i just sim everythng

was bouta buy enchants for rings

[frigid ingot]

curious about that, i would offset for 3min uses but dunno if it s correct.

[lilac stag]

684-700 with tier and haste trinket. It’s not a percent.

[crystal quiver]

Whats the % dps optimization of doing this vs just using evis at full cb?

[mental saffron]

Does replicating shadows affect the Apex proc rate?

[sweet moss]

still mastery prio then

[lilac stag]

Just not vers

[lean sigil]

is it dumb to recraft wep to 272?

[sweet moss]

is this so that you prock apex talent?

[sweet moss]

yes imo

[swift tinsel]

ez

[sweet moss]

whats tha even do

[pastel quarry]

assuming we get more delver journey for doing 11s over 8s yeah?

[swift tinsel]

unlocks mythic crests in delves

[swift tinsel]

nope

[sweet moss]

wtf

[swift tinsel]

150

[sweet moss]

u sololing t11's?

surely aids

[pastel quarry]

soloing 11 isn't even that bad

[swift tinsel]

nah not really

[lean sigil]

anyone else with advice on recrafting wep to 272 this week?

[west tide]

waiiit how many myth crests per 11

[swift tinsel]

sub tanky and valeera heals make you immortal

[west tide]

also i thought only bountiful give rep

[swift tinsel]

20 total iirc

[west tide]

i did my keys already..

[swift tinsel]

per week

[sweet moss]

so u just do bountfiul t11's instead then

[swift tinsel]

will find out soon I have 3x keys left to do

[sweet moss]

for myth farm

[strong crypt]

I wouldn’t . You’re just wasting crests . Re craft it to myth next week @lean sigil

[wintry heart]

Did our m+ build change?

[west tide]

20 per week whaddahell

[sweet moss]

is it even worth grinding if we can spam 10s soon or whatever

[swift tinsel]

only enough 11's to cap crests

[wintry heart]

The wowhead one doesn’t have weapon master or finality

[stuck arrow]

Unless you don't do M+ - don't do it.

[swift tinsel]

otherwise 8's are more efficient for vault

[west tide]

guys i have 4p i cant wait to do 10s

[plush pecan]

has anyone crafted dagger + belt?

or are people saving ?

[west tide]

yes

[strong crypt]

I crafted dagger at 259 no crests

[lean sigil]

both m+ and raid, but i give up a belt craft for one week?

[plush pecan]

same

[mint bobcat]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[stuck arrow]

Just wait till next week and craft with mythic crests. Don't waste the hero crests.

[mint bobcat]

Can''t believe I have been using too different hotkeys for coup de grace and black powder like a chump

[tulip light]

never craft with hero crest

[stuck arrow]

I mean it's optimal that way. Sometimes you want to save coup for a priority target or next pack.

[mint bobcat]

You know what true, saw that macro I thought it was a no brainer but I do find myself holding it sometimes

I'll just keep doing what I'm doing

[west tide]

i never macro

and i also miss coup hella

[mint bobcat]

Idk if I could live without the Shadowblades/Shadow dance/ST macro though

[fallow nimbus]

I macro because in weekly keys it's what ever

[west tide]

i dont macro that either

[mint bobcat]

You are losing .1/.2 of your shadow dance window

[valid yoke]

Hey guys quick question - my sectec and SD CD's keep going out of sync. Do I just wait until both are up before I use them? is there a workaround for this?

[fallow nimbus]

Yes

[lusty acorn]

guide

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[torpid echo]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fallow nimbus]

Never sectec or dance without the other except blades is up

[valid yoke]

for both or just dance?

[fallow nimbus]

Yes

[strong crypt]

How so?

[valid yoke]

gotcha

[astral axle]

[mint bobcat]

Just human reaction time to pressing all those buttons without it being macroed in to happen all at once.

[balmy gate]

u guys craft weapon for hero crest ?

[solemn isle]

is there a pastebin for crafted item strings?

[stuck arrow]

If your slow. I imagine omr isn't.

[astral axle]

isnt it about to be tuning note time

[strong crypt]

Ahhh dance is off the GCD isn’t it . Silly me

[mint bobcat]

Oh yea I'm not trying to dog on anyone else I'm sure he out dps's the hell out of me. I'm the slow one lol.

[tulip light]

no. its very bad

[west tide]

dude i probably am slow ahh

[torpid echo]

Would Heart of Wind + Emberwing Feather Feather be a good combo to farm if I don't wanna deal with collecting souls from Vessel of Tortured souls and the cast time of puzzle box or they are not close dps wise?

[mint bobcat]

Our logs are pretty similar for imperator so 🤷‍♂️

[strong crypt]

Still don’t know whether to send puzzle box on cd or wait for 2nd blades

[left ledge]

depends on the fight

and what you want to get out of it

[torpid echo]

everywhere I read says for you to treat it as a 3min cd unless the fight is about to end

[left ledge]

it doesnt line up naturally so you're either using it like a 3min trinket

or you use it for pad or some shit

[strong crypt]

Got it thanks

[west tide]

gg…

bro im playin da piano too slow

[left ledge]

you could maybe also just do the 10 sec blades delay twice

and then they almost line up

[west tide]

i need to press my pot before sectech..

[left ledge]

i need to start using macros yeah

[west tide]

so lameee

[left ledge]

have to get cds macro

[west tide]

i need another bind

and cds bind

[left ledge]

i mean im just gonna replace blades

with the cds macro

[west tide]

true but no pot..

[left ledge]

yeah not putting pot in there

[mint bobcat]

lol macro gotta be all those perfectly lined up. I got my pre pot in there too.

[left ledge]

i typically pot before i pop cds anyways

[mint bobcat]

1 button boom right into shadowstrike

[left ledge]

what i need to get used to is dance sectec macro...

[west tide]

lowkey thats not bad for no binds though

[mint bobcat]

fr

[left ledge]

im not used to the dance full cp thing yet in all situations

[mint bobcat]

Precams is my rogue if anyone wants to snoop on my logs and call out any of my BS

[west tide]

u can dance at 6 cp i think its chill?

[hollow spear]

Wonder if that's how the sim plays it

[left ledge]

nah it most def plays it like 3 min

[mint bobcat]

Also it's kind of insane how much dps you lose if you don't use your stat pot during your opener. Ran out of the gold tier ones so my macro wasn't using the silver tier and I did like 10k less overall damage.

[stuck arrow]

Pots are nutty. Like 33% more agi for 30s. 😂

Back in the day they were like 10s of 10% more damage. Now they last forever and way stronger than that.

[gilded thistle]

parsed 53 on vanguard

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473062374400589828/1436658507368890388/togif.gif

[pastel arrow]

Hello i have some trouble we try first boss on HM but we fail cause of dps, and i'm the bad dps, but tbh i don't understand what i do wrong, if someone can help me

[gilded thistle]

its the mog

[stuck arrow]

Can control the narrative much better. You exceeded expectations on target swapping to the shield boss which allowed the the raid to successfully progress.

[shrewd lantern]

bring back hitter

smh

[gilded thistle]

gotta use that linkedin translator more

[bleak night]

i thought one of those t was an l at first ngl

[ionic python]

Its normal that this trinket sims better than equal level Vessel? or basically every other trinket of the same Ilvl.

[west tide]

next week soldier

[gilded thistle]

[west tide]

omg old name jumpscare AHH

[shrewd lantern]

vessel is just a statstick

[mint bobcat]

Ok I parsed a 73 on vangaurd, but at the begginning of the fight my shadow stirke just stopped generating combo points.

It's like I got pacified but it was literally 5 seconds into the fight

Am i dumb or just some spaghetti code bug?

[gilded thistle]

they bubble at the start dont they?

[sly swallow]

Did you hit the bubbled paladins?

[gilded thistle]

were u just hitting the wrong person

[mint bobcat]

Probably lol. Does the shield dude bubble at the start?

[gilded thistle]

bro was beating on the bubbles and still did like 30% more damage than me 💀 💀 💀 💀

its so over

[sly swallow]

Yea, they typically bubble right at the start but I believe it can be mass dispelled

[mint bobcat]

I also no lifed to 254.44 ilvl so

[gilded thistle]

they bubble on lust

bro I'm almost 256

i got no excuse

[swift tinsel]

ah damn they changed gilded chests, its 4 now instead of 3

rip

[gilded thistle]

my black powder just worse than urs i guess

[placid lynx]

so we getting back aoe blind?

[gilded thistle]

oh my god please

i hate being useless

let me have utility

pve smoke bomb next please

[normal compass]

I parsed like 82 on that fight running potent powder teehee

[gilded thistle]

yeah i ran potent powder with almost 1k mastery

but im bad so it doesnt matter

[placid lynx]

whats the fucking point on doing for .5 and not now? cmon

[normal compass]

I was doing meaningful damage and shadow striking the high health guy then finishing with BP in dance lol

[shrewd lantern]

useless button

costs a global

[gilded thistle]

i lost so much damage just fucking up my rotation during hammer dodging

extra builders n shit

i was an assass lifer so this is all new to me

[spare oar]

Annyway to get rid of these combopoints? used a weakaura when it was possible

[normal compass]

Also parses right now don't mean shit. The gear and shit is all over the place. That 82 was originally a 99 the day of the kill. But as more people killed it and had 4 set it dropped

[granite rose]

Any rogues with puzzle box how do
You use that trinket right before pull or with all your cds after boss gets pulled?

[solemn isle]

shadow strike then box then send everything

[west tide]

strike box

guys i never prepulled shadowdance for charges

i need a…weakaura…

[gilded thistle]

theres a bunch of addons that do it

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/clearroguecombopoints

i use this one

[untold summit]

guys is it worth to craft a dagger?

[keen kayak]

Does anyone have a resource where I can get some support understanding my logs? I've identified that my eviscerate damage is super low and I can't figure out why?

[spare oar]

Thanks!

[hot creek]

is this rly worth it to wait 2nd dance to end before recasting sectec with supercharger ? or could we just send one more sectec without supercharged CP ?

[remote rapids]

can you not sim the season dungeons yet?

[still gazelle]

How many myth crests to upgrade dagger next week?

[mint bobcat]

Start unstealthed and use at 3 seconds before pull then stealth into shadow strike etc

[swift tinsel]

I hear the guy that made this is handsome and cool

[tulip light]

betterblizzardframes

[half coral]

Guys, question. Whats is the rotation in SD with ancient arts proc? Sd sectech builder finisher finisher ….?

[hot creek]

SS evi evi or SS SS evi evi if AA doesnt proc

[west tide]

idk what this means bro

[lean sigil]

is it sim bait to play 2x Enchant Weapon - Acuity of the Ren'dorei

[west tide]

no

[hot creek]

sorry let me rephrase

[graceful crown]

which rotation to do the same damage as a demonlock?

praying?

[warm marlin]

ddos

[graceful crown]

roger

[west tide]

lmao

[graceful crown]

in paladins

i literally didnt fk up a lot

[hot creek]

when you open with blades dance and sectec, your first dance ends before blades end and before sectec comes back. It is said to send another dance during blades, but I sit on my sectec which came back in the meantime.

[graceful crown]

just impossible

[neat egret]

guys is there even a point simming the highest simming st build (deathstalker) if its literally never used

[warm marlin]

where are the rest of the team

[hot creek]

So should i send my sectec during this 2nd dance or wait ?

[warm marlin]

why is sub 3rd

[graceful crown]

wanna know?

KEKW

[warm marlin]

the unfortunate answer is that it depends a lot on your haste level, tier, and guidon

and lust

in lust, you can hold the second dance to sc sectec, and with guidon/tier, you can do the same always

[umbral cliff]

someone here know what i can do?

[hot creek]

ive guidon. I feel so sad when ive to hold sectec so long 🙁

[hot creek]

ty

[graceful crown]

first time i see that

too powerful

those feet

[gilded thistle]

did u fr kill it with that damage?

holy

[graceful crown]

paladins are ez

[gilded thistle]

musta been a long fight

[graceful crown]

5.40m

[gilded thistle]

maybe my pug was just cracked asf then

[graceful crown]

ofc

:D

[gilded thistle]

nah wtf my group had way higher damage than that and it was 6:40

no way u did it in 5:40

[hoary birch]

Any tip on puzzlebox usage? i have been suffering with that, i got it in my dk and same problem, seems more than a problem than a big buff

[gilded thistle]

oh wait is that normal

[graceful crown]

yes

[gilded thistle]

o nvm

[trail bison]

was looking at parses last night regarding this, and i was confused why most top performers werent doing this and instead just b2b, even tho they had appropriate haste levels

[graceful crown]

haha

[warm marlin]

the guidon thing isnt in public apl yet

it was bricking sims

[shrewd lantern]

isnt that also due to sb duration is extended with 4p

[warm marlin]

also that

not sure if its worth doing without 4p

i was doing it but idk

good practice

[west tide]

i didnt even know thats a thing

ill try it

so just use second sd as normal when sectech is back up?

[warm marlin]

nvm it is in public apl

[west tide]

in opener

[warm marlin]

no its a bit more technical

there is a precise lineup of guidon buff having less than 1 second left and sectec being about 3 gcds away

so you want to dance during that gcd

#subtlety message

you want to both snapshot the guidon haste buff for dance duration and supercharge sectec

[shrewd lantern]

can guidon even be tracked

[warm marlin]

you can track the cooldown

it's sorta similar

[shrewd lantern]

im assuming you can send sectech the second sc finisher

or it has to be first

[warm marlin]

its always second doing this

you dont have the haste to snapshot guidon and have sectec up

[west tide]

i see ok so its just to snapshot guidon beforeit expires ok

[shrewd lantern]

honestly i did some feelycraft shit in aoe

[west tide]

i will just do that when i get it

[shrewd lantern]

of doing coup first sc finisher in dance

then coup

[west tide]

and let the rest come to me

lmfao

[shrewd lantern]

then hoping for another coup

idk if thats acc good

[swift zinc]

hello what stats in % is atm the best i got 18% crit 20% haste and 65 % mastery 🙂

[west tide]

700 haste

[swift zinc]

700 hase is sweatspot ?

[warm marlin]

if you played it perfect last i checked it was neutral

cant delay sectec at all tho

[gilded thistle]

my sweatspots are in my armpits

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i do some weird feelycraft shit in dungeons

like idk if ignoring aa refund and storming just to have coup before a big group is dead

is worth

[warm marlin]

i hold coup mega long

[swift tinsel]

same

[shrewd lantern]

moreso if like i have 3 eb and know my next storm is gonna send me into coup

and ignoring aa refund to storm instead of bp

[swift tinsel]

probs lose a few casts over the course of a dungeon

[warm marlin]

like 8s out from dance and i have coup up im bping

[swift tinsel]

bc of eb munching

[warm marlin]

unless i have aa then it seems fine

[sweet moss]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[west tide]

without guidon its normal b2b dances ya? with 4p

[shrewd lantern]

nah the situation i meant was sending the cp from as refund on a bp

[west tide]

im gettin confused ima play normal

[shrewd lantern]

instead of storming to have coup

[warm marlin]

hmm i dont actually know

its very strange

like every variable you change the robot just flips its playstyle

[shrewd lantern]

also wait is sectech cd affected by haste %s

not raw number

[warm marlin]

yes

like lust

[shrewd lantern]

ok time to ask for PI

jk

[warm marlin]

it's hard to keep all the different methods straight so ive just been practicing what will be good with 4p and guidon

[hazy breach]

Ye just link them bloodmallet

[shrewd lantern]

how low is sub on there

[jaunty heath]

Radiant Plume where does it drop

[hazy breach]

Raid

[jaunty heath]

i cant find it for some reason

[hazy breach]

The first boss of march

[jaunty heath]

its the one which is not open i assume

[hazy breach]

Ye

[jaunty heath]

cool

[sweet moss]

is this just for Deathstalker?

[hazy breach]

No

[sweet moss]

ok ty

[shrewd lantern]

also wait why is dark iron

higher than orc on bloodmallet

what the helly

[stuck tulip]

is Deepening Shadows talent bugged? It often shows my haste bonus for SD is 1.3seconds, I reload and it goes back to 2+

[pure jay]

if anyone can help, I'd be grateful. If I'm able to do my sim damage on a dummy and just need to be better about positioning/maintaining during a boss fight that's easy enough

[sweet moss]

can you explain this AA tech to me?

[hazy breach]

The first dance

[sweet moss]

@hazy breach s ou legit spawm shadowstrike while u can with 5+ shadow techniques and a blue combo ppoints

[hazy breach]

No

[sweet moss]

1 then evis?

[jaunty heath]

i just run droptimzier and seems like only m+ trinket which beat this rep trinket is that tortuned soul one

thats not cool

[visual kettle]

is there a catch up for that rep trinket? I only have 1 of the 3 done so far lmao

[jaunty heath]

yeah do that event stormin assault

[visual kettle]

good looks ty!

[primal lark]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[chrome totem]

What is trickster doing that makes it perform better in raid than deathstalker? Or do not enough people play deathstalker?

[faint quest]

I've been looking at the logs of the top performing sub rogues, I haven't come across one yet that actually slams the second generator in order to get arts up. If it was better would the top rogues not be doing it?

[warm marlin]

ds is only ahead in pure st
ds can get griefed by bugs
ds is maybe not even actually ahead in pure st, because unlike trickster it can get parried

[dire ravine]

Inside, or outside of lust windows?

[wraith dawn]

So I just started playing rogue. Really because a friend and I wanted to do arenas and he plays mage. I had so much fun playing Sub in PvP that I’m now raiding as it. (Which is crazy cause I’m a healer main) But it got me thinking, I like the spec so much, are the other specs as rewarding feeling to play? On top of that, is that even a common take, or am I just having too much fun to see issues.

[stuck tulip]

this is a warrior spy

[faint quest]

As far as I can tell at any time. Regardless of it being in a lust window or not.

[dire ravine]

Think the optimization for manually proccing the AA is inside lust- but I believe the pins are up to date for whats what

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[wraith dawn]

Unironically hate warrior so lmao

Think i really just enjoy shadow step tbh

[cold citrus]

Outlaw is bis for fun, sub is mid

[dire ravine]

Outlaw seems like a cult following.

[fallow ingot]

It's not optimal to always enter dance -> Secret tech with a AA proc ? Outside blade windows

[swift zinc]

wthey should buff him when i see a demo hexa

[west tide]

anyone use that archon tool is it neat

the video stuff

[obtuse orbit]

its just wow recorder which was something availbe previously. they just joined into one addon/team im pretty sure

[potent heath]

Someone do Nulleaus today ?

It’s impossible

[night sparrow]

Yo, anybody has a rogue PoV for Crown of the Cosmos ? ♥

Sub or sin

HM obv

[sleek socket]

ass better then sub in raids?

[stone vessel]

is 632 haste enough? (18%)

[warm marlin]

probably not

want to be more like 680

[obtuse orbit]

600ish for DS and 700ish for trick

[swift zinc]

and how much mastery ?

and crit ?

[warm marlin]

sim

[swift zinc]

sorry iam new player

[obtuse orbit]

haste is the only breakpoint youre trying to hit after that stack mastery/crit

[warm marlin]

raidbots.com top gear

[swift zinc]

its my first addon

[warm marlin]

with simulationcraft addon

[swift zinc]

ah yeah i hear of that thanks

[warm marlin]

haste is just a unique situation where you need a specific number

[glass torrent]

so sub rogue max dmg on warcraft logs is pathetic at like 87k, and heroic we are avg like 4th or 5th lowest dps in game. buffs inc ?

[alpine wraith]

yea dont worry just get the haste then go full mastery/crit

[swift zinc]

ah okey yeah i got 703 so iam just fine

[alpine wraith]

just avoid vers gear mainlky

[valid ocean]

none of the other stats have a min amount "required" like haste does for sub

[swift zinc]

allright thanks but i think 18 % crit is too low right ?

i will sim it thannkns a lot guys

[valid ocean]

no its not too low, that kind of thinking doesnt apply to other stats

[hollow spear]

I hate that this whole haste situation krangles the sims so much

[valid ocean]

get your haste breakpoint, sim the rest

[swift zinc]

all right bro

[valid ocean]

haste is just weird and annoying

[glass torrent]

but srs why is sub rogue 90% percentile dps bm tier right now

[valid ocean]

cause no tier

[glass torrent]

is this class just useless after being good last few xpacs ?

[valid ocean]

and rogue is beans

[west tide]

weirdly enough even after 700 haste it used to sim like 5dps stat weight now its up to 11 near mastery crit at 14

[glass torrent]

correct me if im wrong but 2 set >>> 4 set

[valid ocean]

what

[glass torrent]

in terms of dps increase

2 set seems much better

than shadow blades duration

[warm marlin]

mine has haste at 1.2

[valid ocean]

uhhh i mean sure okay, but you know you have 2set when you have 4set right

[warm marlin]

[glass torrent]

but what im saying is ppl could reasonably have their 2 set complete before logs... you get one piece from pvp minimum engagement. just catalyst a conquest piece. get the second from norm before heroic

and we are still utter trash

[warm marlin]

using catalyst before 4set is giga troll

[glass torrent]

yes but we are talking about logs

[valid ocean]

many people arent sending their charge until vault or before they can complete 4set cause that's insane troll

most logs will not have 2set yet

[glass torrent]

someone out there has done it.. and our maximum is super low

[warm marlin]

there are some logs with mega trollers playing 276 mainhand weapons

but for your point about maximum no one who can maximize the spec is going to have a 276 weapon and 4set

[valid ocean]

yeah lmao that's a good point

[stone vessel]

any way to track shadow blades timer? it gets lost in the buffs bar

sorry, shadow dance*

[crystal quiver]

For deathstalker when you have darkest night up is it worth it to hold this for dance, or to backstab to get aa proc?

[glass torrent]

but the 2 set is perhaps more prevalant. and i stated the 4 set seems much weaker as an overall buff than the 2 set

see the logic here ?

[warm marlin]

oh ye 2set is stronger

[glass torrent]

so if there was a big jump, you would see it now.,. if true

[warm marlin]

its like 9% and 5%

[glass torrent]

yes

[warm marlin]

i didnt get 2p until crown though

[half comet]

does anything change gameplay wise for deathstalker?

[frail kindle]

WE ARE SO BACK BABY

ITS A BEAUTIFUL DAY

[pure jay]

would I be able to bug anyone for help w/ log review?

[stuck tulip]

bro we got a 3% buff we're not back lol

[fiery fog]

we get a 3% buff

devourer also gets a 3 % buff

???

[stuck arrow]

Feels a touch light - particularly without touching the top performers.

[fiery fog]

(and even more)

[oblique spade]

Yay

3% buff

[stuck arrow]

Or in some cases buffing top performers.

[glass torrent]

did they nerd devoker and mm

[oblique spade]

blizzard rn:

https://tenor.com/view/russell-wilson-gif-45955931505253792

[weak glade]

Yo 3% buff huge

lol

[south pelican]

Does anyone have a link? What yall talking about

[stuck tulip]

this does fuck all actually

[fiery fog]

blizzard must be smoking some crazy stuff lmao

[loud pilot]

our aoe still sucks right 3% is nothing?

[livid flume]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/additional-midnight-class-tuning-incoming-march-24th-380891

[faint quest]

Yikes guess they are happy with rogue at the bottom

[balmy gate]

3% hahha

[weak glade]

I mean we just become the 9th worst dps instead of 7th

[gilded ferry]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[balmy gate]

Man Blizzard is horrible, how can u just publish somethin like that

[faint quest]

no one at Blizz plays rogue so why would they care?

[stuck tulip]

this is a slap in the face

[hushed roost]

what are you guys gonna do with your 3%?

[glass torrent]

i thought aoe was the strong suit for this spec.. or did black powder nerfs kill that

[tulip light]

maybe copium but i think rogue will be fine on mythic

[glass torrent]

that is what it seems

definitely above median

[tulip light]

some singel target. some dmg amps

[glass torrent]

unlike raid

[stuck tulip]

maybe in +5 keys max

[tulip light]

i mean mythic raid

[stuck tulip]

over +5 keys we run out of juice

[fiery fog]

https://i.imgflip.com/an6qv3.jpg

[glass torrent]

o i meant mplus

[plush roost]

3% is enough, demo nerfed, devoker nerfed. Only outlier is now devour dh

Rogue was not that far behind

[balmy gate]

We are fine but these Patchnotes scream we dont like rogues

[glass torrent]

outlaw not even pictured... need to remove target cap on blade flurry for the legion throwback

[plush roost]

Always a possibility of sec tec apex fix 8)

[faint quest]

The avg rogue parse is 30% lower than the top performers, I don't think that is 'fine'.

[subtle jay]

we good now?

[fiery fog]

overall dps rankings atm btw
rogue is not fine tbh

[subtle jay]

i hope so at least

[alpine wraith]

ahahaha

[subtle jay]

rogue is fucked af

[stuck tulip]

this guy said 3% is enough and not far behind KEKW

[jaunty heath]

nah that 3% was all we needed

we fly to moon now

[glass torrent]

even at 75% its a bit grim

[woeful barn]

Takes from non rogue players hilarious

[faint quest]

must be missing a 0 somewhere xD

[woeful barn]

Yall suck

[plush roost]

Nah youll see

[shy scarab]

Bro

[fiery fog]

imagine having 3 dps specs as a class and all are in a pit of dispair

[shy scarab]

If they didnt nerf rogues aoe i promise u that rogue would be top 6

[plush roost]

This

[shy scarab]

ST is useless in voidspire

[glass torrent]

that mastery bp talent was broken

[unreal silo]

is it possible to set up tracking for coup/escalating blades in the buff tracker? it seems completely broken

[warm marlin]

we are so back

[lucid jackal]

It's over

[frail kindle]

im saying bro

this is all we needed

like im not a greedy man ill take a cool 3/4%

[glass torrent]

they didnt nerf sub rogues in pvp at least

[primal zephyr]

I chose a great patch to come back to rrogue guys 🙂

[mint bobcat]

3% buff to all sub rogue damage? Don't mind if I do

[glass torrent]

you guys can drop your ladder anxiety and get your free catalyst charge from 1600 rq..

[light finch]

Rogue Content Creators are just to chill, no Dramaqueens, so Blizzard dont give a fuck.

[jaunty heath]

i did yesterday´, tbh i had so much fun in 2v2 arenas

[tardy solar]

3%

[warm marlin]

we are SO back

sub tier it is

[stuck tulip]

Rogue content creators are pvp'ers so they dont care

[glass torrent]

sub rogue giga broken pvp and avoided nerfs

[jaunty heath]

sub tier again? wow

[plush roost]

@hazy breach pin this and call it a fuckin day bro LMAO

[glass torrent]

and mistweaver nerfed

[jaunty heath]

cant be

[glass torrent]

actually back

[balmy gate]

Pvp 😂 its dead man just give US pve buff

[hushed roost]

damn im not sure how to spend my 3%

[warm marlin]

crazy how guy is always the biggest doomer in discord... can this guy have a single positive opinion about the game...

[night sparrow]

3% ????

[river coral]

what are these dogshit buffs

[glass torrent]

U pick rogue and dont play pvp.. genuinely sad. maybe pick up fury warrior or something with a useful raid buff (or feral druid at this rate..)

[night sparrow]

THREE FUCKING PERCENTS ????§§§ZUORFHBZIGBZIFELILZ

[jaunty heath]

time to learn how to gather souls in combat

[glass torrent]

im telling you.. you can have a 1 button macro and get 1600 on rogue if you queue now

[mint bobcat]

Ill take 3% all day over being completely ignored as usual

[unreal musk]

W buff

[hollow spear]

Where did guy go? Crafting his sword hopefully?

[warm marlin]

im trying but my team keeps getting farmed in bg blitz

[steel zinc]

More dooming guys

[keen dome]

I'm sad we didn't get a BP buff because that would've been really funny

[steel zinc]

3% not enough

[lucid jackal]

LOLOOL

[steel zinc]

3% is nothing 😄

[stuck tulip]

yeah you go cast your puzzle box, press your 1shot macro and you're 1600rating

[iron shore]

First message here guys. Done my raid runs. Felt like I was a fresh 90 char boosted by 19 ppl, the fact is that I was one of the most geared.
Bring back my pump Blizzard plssssss

[hushed roost]

6-2 in bg blitz was 1600 for me lol

[glass torrent]

play solo shuffle but unironically

[jaunty heath]

bro do 2v2s they are chill arenas

[glass torrent]

the first queue takes forever but after it is pretty quick

u literally start at like 1500 lp

[warm marlin]

I WENT 6-1 AND WENT 1598 AND NOW IM GETTING +15 RATING AND IM HARDSTUCK 1550

[hushed roost]

despair

[stuck tulip]

ELO HELL

[glass torrent]

oh nvm same deal as solo

[sweet moss]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[hollow spear]

You're in low prio queue

[sweet moss]

can anyone explain how this works to me in dms? ^^^

the paex optim

[warm marlin]

im actually in losers q

its insane

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1365042674842992660/9l2o5h-ezgif.com-reverse.gif

WE'RE SO BACK

[sweet moss]

apex

[hollow spear]

It's real

[swift tinsel]

3% holy

huge

insaneo buff

[jaunty heath]

dave on the break

[keen dome]

I really like how Sub is the only one with the PvP part to the buff

[graceful crown]

w

[left ledge]

[keen dome]

it's very funny

[glass torrent]

it is better than nerf

[vale pine]

Tuning Changes for March 24

There could be more changes before reset, but we take the 3% buff.

[left ledge]

3% IS HUGE

[delicate wedge]

Dont worry guys, just reroll to a fotm class

[sweet moss]

YES

[unreal musk]

Ppl complaining are the same using the assisted rotation

[wind cosmos]

3% is a meme

[vale pine]

not sure if 3% is enough to make us competitive, but we take it

[vocal rock]

3% wow that’s insane 🥹🥹🥹

[graceful crown]

Warlock
Demonology
All ability damage reduced by 4%.

KEKW

[warm marlin]

do not worry team with our gains from 4p we will ascend

[potent heath]

It’s not a nerf

[hollow compass]

Arms warrior no buff lmfao thats so sad

[warm marlin]

this 3% will be very nice

[jaunty heath]

and is 4 enough for assa ?:D

[sweet moss]

this on mythic release?

[hollow compass]

Poor warriors

[alpine wraith]

tbh we will be upper mid tier

[warm marlin]

look at paladins

the arms sandbag operation was a booming success

[leaden prairie]

arms doing better than rogue

on most bosses

[vale pine]

with reset

[swift tinsel]

"we’re planning to make adjustments that address a few outliers"

[glass torrent]

its a shame.. i switched from sub to arms in war within s1 and arms happened to be S tier.. then idk.. died.. and still dead this xpac

[swift tinsel]

3% outlier spec

[fiery fog]

arms is actually doing kinda well in raid

[left ledge]

its 3% to our ability AND melee damage lmao

so really its like

[steel zinc]

it isnt

[left ledge]

a 3% buff

HUGE

[glass torrent]

well now that i think about it war within s1 arms was S raid and F tier m+ which really sucked for gearing lol

[hollow spear]

The screenshots of all boss averages is kinda unhelpful tho, because we're getting massively dragged down by vanguards

[jaunty heath]

mom im on list

[steel zinc]

3% is a joke a freaking joke. GP2 class GP2 class

[left ledge]

TOPPING THE MEETS

[plush roost]

Holy the math maths!)?!?!

[left ledge]

wait

why am i on the list

[stuck tulip]

underrated reference

[glass torrent]

why does sub suck so bad on that fight anyway

[left ledge]

i dont have a weapon or tier

[glass torrent]

i suck at every fight so i guess i didnt notice

[vocal rock]

It’s hilarious how they couldn’t even give us that extra 1% to make us all equal at 4% because we’re obviously so close to being OP if we got that 4% buff

[glass torrent]

take me back to VOTI sub rogue

[alpine wraith]

we got a 15% nerf to our cleave and aoe

[fiery fog]

wdym sub is doing great on that fight

[jaunty heath]

i did not have either, but will have one for last boss 😄

[alpine wraith]

we used to be decent

[steel zinc]

just close ravenhold until we have 2 digit buffs no joke. You are still so far behind

[narrow shadow]

Rogue almost at the bottom as a class and Devourer gets more buffs

[swift tinsel]

dude wait til you see us after that huge 3% buff

[glass torrent]

at least rogue has the worst raid buff in the game

wait

[left ledge]

to be fair

[leaden prairie]

i mean sub is still getting a 14% tier set

[left ledge]

our tier set is quite massive

[flint parrot]

this so joke bruh

[left ledge]

yeah

lmao

[hollow spear]

Idk, I'm not dooming tbh

[leaden prairie]

i think you guys are

[stuck tulip]

switch MM hunter and SUB rogue after this 3% buff 😉

[leaden prairie]

well its sub anyway

[flint parrot]

realz bruh

[leaden prairie]

sub season

[flint parrot]

are u fuckin serious

[leaden prairie]

as usual

[keen dome]

it's always sub season

[left ledge]

its always sub season baby

fuck outlaw

[hushed roost]

honestly id stop complaining if they just gave us the aoe blind now instead of at .5

[keen dome]

next season is gonna be outlaw season though, I believe

[hollow spear]

No

[leaden prairie]

thats funny

they hotfixed mid week blind working in aoe

[swift tinsel]

I'm just gonna vibe on havoc in keys

[hollow spear]

Next season is sub season, too

[leaden prairie]

but they cant do the opposite

[left ledge]

honestly idk what the doom is about with sub

[leaden prairie]

[left ledge]

im usually the doomer here

[warm marlin]

im not sure ppl realize that sub will do fine after the tier and buffs

itll be in a fine spot

[light finch]

Guys sometimes you have a season where your class is at the bottom, unless you are mage, warlock, DH or DK.

[stuck tulip]

you guys saying it's sub season or outlaw season don't realise WE ARE NOT IN THE SEASON AS A WHOLE

[left ledge]

but i think we're in an alright spot

[tepid trellis]

Devourer*

[swift tinsel]

lil column A, lil column B

[glass torrent]

itll be competitive with feral druid and elemental shaman, this is true

[leaden prairie]

i mean it will do better than the other 2 rogue spec on every fight even vanguard xd

so

[narrow shadow]

All specs always doom always forever

[leaden prairie]

ye

[shy scarab]

We are benchers

[fading saffron]

ill take the 3%, im having a blast as sub - i doubt this is a final pass and more changes will come. some of yall need to relax

[hollow spear]

Devourer locked in now?

[tepid trellis]

im on rogue still afaik

[left ledge]

i do have one problem with sub right now though

[tepid trellis]

cuz hunter broken

[left ledge]

something ive been dooming about

[warm marlin]

i dont think many sub players have experienced the despair that is trying to play outlaw

[left ledge]

and will continue to doom about

our visuals are fucking garbage lmao

[patent iris]

Do we mass reroll to outlaw? kekw

[keen dome]

is it the lack of a poison toggle?

[leaden prairie]

you mean assa?

[left ledge]

oh and poisons

[swift tinsel]

me, respeccing from outlaw to sub mid-m0

[left ledge]

i hate poisons man

just let me have them perma on

[leaden prairie]

why would i play outlaw on vanguard

[left ledge]

ffs

[stuck tulip]

yeah having fun on m0 where mobs die quickly, come back when you're doing a +8-10 and you run out of cd's while mobs still at half health

[leaden prairie]

the outlaw boss

[warm marlin]

well that's because assa is boring, i meant outlaw tuning

[left ledge]

why would i play on vanguard*

just sit me man

[fading saffron]

[left ledge]

the fight is probably gonna be cancer anyways

[hollow spear]

Dunno why people are dooming here. At least we don't have to play assa

[stuck tulip]

post io

[leaden prairie]

ah ye sure

[glass torrent]

if we all re roll to feral now we can send a message

[shy scarab]

Prepare hunter alt bro for mythix LOL

[glass torrent]

ill go first

[shy scarab]

Feral is dogshit

0 aoe burst

[glass torrent]

anyone know how convoke the spirit works

[leaden prairie]

with tier set sub gets right under assa, like 1% under it on vanguard

[iron shore]

press button and wait

[leaden prairie]

which is sub worse boss btw

[stuck tulip]

i said post io not getting carried

[left ledge]

lmao no

im playing rogue

[floral inlet]

vanguard def sucks ass

[left ledge]

dont fire emoji me

[keen dome]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Io_highest_resolution_true_color.jpg/330px-Io_highest_resolution_true_color.jpg

[glass torrent]

most rogue player cant handle complex rotation of surv, bm, mm hunter

[left ledge]

im playing rogue whether i like it or not

[shrewd lantern]

8-10s mobs are not gonna live a hot minute

[left ledge]

[shy scarab]

Nah cool fight, just dog class

[hollow spear]

You can't stop me

[shrewd lantern]

also io dont mean shit

how many high io rogs even were good

[keen dome]

I posted io, we're good

[shy scarab]

My alt is elemental shaman so im gooned on vanguard LOL