subtlety

[warm marlin]

doesnt look like there's time to get another blades usage if we send insta anyway

[reef walrus]

the absolute limit of dances without the first dance is 17.34 seconds anyway

[hallow matrix]

is it correct to then send another dance+sectec and hold blades for pot?

in a perfect world

[reef walrus]

since the hardcap on haste that you can get from haste stat is 126%, you can only get your dances to be 2.89 times longer than baseline at most

[alpine wraith]

yea that one you would dance+sec tech and just hold blades for a bit

[warm marlin]

if you wont miss a dance cast absolutely

er

not dance blades

pot is really strong

[hallow matrix]

yea send sectect+dance, sit on blades for next dance/sectec/pot cd

[warm marlin]

think he realized the mistake and tried to send dance at the very end of the clip too

[fiery fog]

Oh well
Guess no infinite dance spam then to have a flat dmg profile

[warm marlin]

then in full vod his blades is mega late because he ripped the tech as it came up in that late dance, was a bit of an unfortunate situation

[reef walrus]

indeed not possible, it would also require getting remix levels of haste, which tends to be impossible on the main game

[warm marlin]

idk getting the robot to send raw sectecs in sims is difficult, it doesn't really like it. but in actual gameplay it seems to come up a decent amount

[hallow matrix]

ah okay, appreciate the breakdown @warm marlin

i'll bear it in mind that raw sectec isn't always wrong

[fiery fog]

Raw sending sectec is a sin

[warm marlin]

it's kind of a feelcraft thing for now, there are definitely situations where it feels very correct

[open coyote]

During BL, sometimes i can manage to get a sec tech during the 2nd dance window, but i will not have the bonus combo points

Should i save the sec tech and use it with the next dance that comes up?

[alpine wraith]

dont worry send sec tech instant

unles the next dance is only like 1 or 2 secs away then hold

[open coyote]

Usually when this happens the next dance is 5-6 seconds away

[alpine wraith]

then yea isnta send

[copper ravine]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[vale osprey]

Gamers I logged like absolute SHIT yesterday in norm and HC - I don't think I got the add pad timings down very well :^)

[open coyote]

I also notice when i do wait with the sec tech i end up on a rotation with only 1 dance stack for the 2nd shadow blades unless i delay

[alpine wraith]

just think about if this happens 3 or 4 times a fight you would lose 2 casts of sec tech

[fiery fog]

But for this to happen youd need to send blades 3 to 4 times

Which happens

So nvm me

[warm marlin]

10 min chimaerus says hi

[hollow scroll]

sorry, didnt mean to react, misclick xD

[open coyote]

Doing nexus king was a maddening experience with a 2m on use trinket since it meant i only had 3 seconds of trinket uptime for damage amp

But i got the haste on use from tick tack toe boss on hc so that should not be a problem next week

[mighty citrus]

regarding the crucible trinket, do i need to "level" it or do something else to make it work? or is the table with the points only for activities inside the void area there?

[fiery fog]

Im a trial for now so i probably wont see guidon for weeks unless i perform incredibly good or see it in vault

[warm marlin]

the 3 buffs to the voidlust proc all work in instances

[mighty citrus]

okay so i need to level it i see

[warm marlin]

80% uptime

[tribal blade]

wtf 80% uptime is bananas

so it's basically a stat stick lol

[mighty citrus]

whats the max you can currently have in the table?

[warm marlin]

i think all of them but you only need the 3 upgrades directly branching from the top node

so 4 points spent total

[mighty citrus]

i see thanks

[fiery fog]

The nodes from the voidstorm table?

[alpine wraith]

yea

[fiery fog]

I think i have all of them

Idk if its because of early access though

[alpine wraith]

should have 5 this week

[hallow matrix]

do we ever send shuriken storm with the silent storm buff specifically? like on ST etc? or just use storm when 2+ (outside dance) regardless

?

[alpine wraith]

so it is safe for most

[warm marlin]

worse than just backstabbing

[hallow matrix]

ty ty

[hollow locust]

i can max it this week

[paper trail]

Afaik its only the 3 first nodes that matter right

[keen geode]

does anybody know how to sim how much you gain from tier set?

[tribal blade]

this is trickster

DS

[keen geode]

thank you! guild wants to know i guess

[fiery fog]

Sub is the biggest tierset enjoyer this season

[tribal blade]

yeah biggest so congrats

you get to tell them it's huge and have higher prio on tier

(me sitting at 0 pc so far /cry)

[torn tide]

how are yall getting tier pieces

[edgy marlin]

killing bosses

[tribal blade]

i'm working on getting 1600 in solo shuffle for 2nd catalyst charge right now

it's killing me

but needs to be done

[fiery fog]

My condolences

[torn tide]

oh rng in raids?

[mortal snow]

What is the haste breakpoint after 700(18%)? I know it's not worth doing, but just curious what the next breakpoint is.

[raven blaze]

but u can just get it with 2000 m+

and u shouldnt be using it yet

[tribal blade]

yeah next week

[raven blaze]

surely its a waste to use it now?

[edgy marlin]

it's about getting 4 set asap so you can farm cata charges

[bleak night]

i am also in pain

[tribal blade]

nah my guild this tier has the rule if you grind out 1600 pvp

you have higher prio for making 4 piece

so if you have 1pc

[torn tide]

what bosses r u talking about tho

to get them

[fiery fog]

Having it is a bigger gain than the loss you have from having a piece s tier lower

[bleak night]

the work is almost done though

[raven blaze]

i already got 1pc tier from lfr

[bleak night]

surely one more match

[tribal blade]

and then get to roll on a 2nd piece and have 1600 pvp, my guild is giving you higher prio to make 4pc

[edgy marlin]

if you get 1 item from raid you should get 4 set next week

[bleak night]

i got warbound tier from saladbar

[inner crow]

stupid question maybe but just wondering is it ever worth using the macro on wowhead using every cd + pot and racial or is it better to have dance + tech and then have blades seperate with trink?

[tribal blade]

yah but i want it NOW

14% is a p big number

[edgy marlin]

then do lfr and pay for tokens

[tribal blade]

nah can't, gotta wait for my raid to do it

[alpine wraith]

someone that rushed it told me bg blitz is easier

because you cant lose rating below 1500

and get 100 a win

or more

[fiery fog]

Wait really

[alpine wraith]

but i will od it this weekend if i get 2p

[tribal blade]

hmmmm

i'm much better in bgs, that was what i did when i was a pvper

i was a big RBGer

i HATE arena

[bleak night]

this is pain

so if theres any chance bg blitz is less pain go for it

[tribal blade]

but i'm just under 1k in solo shuffle right now so maybe i jsut stick with that

[wet atlas]

i am full epic and i am only missing an offhand dagger. Does it make sense to craft a second dagger with sparks? (i already crafted a dagger last week)

[alpine wraith]

no not spark

[bleak night]

the last ~150 rating in solo shuffle takes forever

[alpine wraith]

but you can craft a veteran one

[bleak night]

and i havent even lost any rating

[tribal blade]

HELL no

[bleak night]

its just so slow

[tribal blade]

offhand for sub is the smallest dps gain slot

[wet atlas]

Alright thanks guys

[bleak night]

np

[tribal blade]

join me in pvp hell UwU

[keen dome]

Multiple 4 - 6% Voraius wipes, and I wipe a pull 'cos of trying to monitor group DPS and eat shit after playing flawlessly for a dozen+ pulls. And over half the raid leaves.

I hate pugging!!

[tribal blade]

but yeah this is super toxic only have 2nd cata charge from pvp

i hope they never do this again

[bleak night]

yeah lmao

[reef crater]

Is it better to backstab few sec (like 2-3 ) before dance at max cp to stack more shadow tech ?

[bleak night]

at least now i'll have some practice for when they do the same thing next tier

[tribal blade]

they could have just given the pvpers the 2nd cata charge at the start of next week when M+ drops and you get it retroactively if you have the achieve

[keen dome]

I assume next tier we get M+ the same week as raids lol

The whole rollout of this season is weird and awkward

Just give us M+ up to 6 blizz

[tribal blade]

i like M+ not coming out on heroic week

but forcing people to pvp is aids

[raven blaze]

daily m0s is good enough

[keen dome]

daily m0s is incredibly boring

[bleak night]

yeah im kinda find with m+ being delayed

so i dont have to go so insanely hard this week

[tribal blade]

yeah you kinda space out stuff

[bleak night]

but im like race for world last ce so

[keen dome]

It's torture for me, specifically, because of the heroic pugging situation

so it's bad

[bleak night]

yeah i can definitely see that

people wont have as much gear this week

so pugging probably even harder

[raven blaze]

i was sad i didnt get gloves from three world tours

but now i got LFR tier gloves, and theyre 250

[keen dome]

Yeah, pretty much. It's ultimately w/e but the margins actually exist and you have to find people who do damage

[bleak night]

im wearing warmode gloves i bought with bloody coins lmao

before that i was wearing adventurer gloves

havent gotten shit

[keen dome]

I'm probably getting 2 heroic kills and calling it a week lol

[high grotto]

we got a logs section to post logs?

[raven blaze]

0 vers

[keen dome]

You can just do !logs

[south moss]

Are people actually taking their gear to 700 haste? Or just to the point where mana oil (or whatever its called now) + flask get them over the 700 mark? Sorry for dumb q

[raven blaze]

depends

real answer is, you keep all the gear you get and try to get as little vers as possible

and then you try to get to 700 haste and then you try to get as much mastery as possible

[tribal blade]

yeah it's good

[fiery fog]

My gear only gets me to 580 haste so i use haste flask

[tribal blade]

you're going over the breakpoint requirement, but it means more auto attack speed and therefore a bit more apex

also much more leeway in dance for error

[raven blaze]

just did LFR dreamrift on oce 227 ms

[south moss]

Ok ty ty that all makes sense ❤️ yall are the best

[raven blaze]

i was lucky to get 3 evis in a dance

[tribal blade]

lol i play on 200 ms always

welcome to my world

[keen dome]

hero

[raven blaze]

i swear theres a dif between

good 200ms and laggy 200 ms

[tribal blade]

yes there is

[raven blaze]

there times where my input doesnt go through for a solid 2s

whenever im on oce server

[tribal blade]

i know because i deal with so much latency bullshit

[raven blaze]

thats not 200 ping that sjust ungodly bad lag

and idk why it happens

is oce just the worst server ever?

[tribal blade]

so the oce thing is from what i know

(which is very little)

your ping is bouncing from wherever you're from to your server then to oce then back

or something like that (i probably got something wrong)

so it's a very different kind of lag

[fiery fog]

The ping you see in game rarely reflects your real ms in game

I stopped playing when my ping was bouncing between 100-5000 on a second basis but it always said i have a 150 ping

It was unplayable

[hollow spear]

man, I am the #1 nightmare prey hater

[tribal blade]

there's also the thing where if you're not used to playing on 200+ ping

it feels unplayable

but i'm on it 24/7 so i'm used to it

[fiery fog]

Imo wow is playable up to about 200 ms if youre used to it (and its stable)

But a lower ping just feels better

[tribal blade]

no way i don't believe you

can't be true

bigger number = better

[fiery fog]

Okay i lied

Im sorry

Had to spew some low ping propaganda

[tribal blade]

😉

my fave is my GM plays on like 5-10 ping

and then he'll start complaining when he hits 50

[tame hearth]

Yo chat, could someone enlighten me, why arent we holding coup for dance anymore especially why arent we trying to setup so we supercharge it ?

[alpine wraith]

we hold coup for dance if it is close

around 3 or 4 secs at most

same as pooling at full cp to get sht

[fiery fog]

I usually hold coup 5 seconds before dance

[calm patrol]

Hi team, which spec you recommend for m+?

[alpine wraith]

trickster for m+

[tribal blade]

if you hold coup too long you're gonna lose out on UB procs

they reduced the ICD of UB

also the chance for double hits

[tame hearth]

Oh I see, thanks

[calm patrol]

And sub spec correct?

[alpine wraith]

if you ask in the sub channel yea

[fiery fog]

Sublety is objectively speaking the bestest spec of all rogue specs! (Its not sub channel bias)

[calm patrol]

Thanks!

[tribal blade]

1 time on the dummies i sent coup quite close to my next dance and then got x3 UB procs from good rng

[fiery fog]

And then you do it in raid and it never happens

[tribal blade]

so it was like coup>dance>sectec>coup

[high grotto]

!logs

[paper trail]

Is puzzle sim bait or actually decently strong for sub even tho we dont have any synced cds really

[fiery fog]

Its a 3 min trinket for us

And big mastery=bigger numbers

For aoe mainly though

Otherwise you want a on use haste trinket + passive trinket

[wanton sparrow]

ow, any tips for crown? my dps was a piece of shit on this boss

[tribal blade]

TRUE

there's no winning

you either hold coup till next dance and watch UB proc and at minimum waste x1 UB proc

or you send coup and hope you get good enough rng to get coup back to be in dance

[inner crow]

w

[bleak night]

unless you're me

[tribal blade]

HUGE

[bleak night]

i sincerely hope i dont have to do that again next tier

[tribal blade]

yeah it blows

[fiery fog]

Heads up
Its gonna be worse

(I hope not)

[cinder zenith]

hi in this case is worth to hold to consume mi Coupe te Grace inside SD?

[alpine wraith]

you would send coup there

7 secs too much

[tribal blade]

wtf i randomly can only hear music in game, no other sound

tf

[alpine wraith]

musicmaxxing

[cinder zenith]

ou kk ty mate

[keen dome]

VoraiusH down let's goooo

[cobalt patrol]

Should we immediately recraft 259 wep into 272?

[rain hull]

At the Paladin fight in raid, is there a point we use Evis instead of BP? focus down the shield mby but else?

[gaunt widget]

Is rouge that bad that you dont even play one in raid or have i missed something?

[keen dome]

Rogue is fine

[vale pine]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[vale pine]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[fiery fog]

I think its in the middle of the pack

Not bad but not great either

Just „ok“

[tribal blade]

oh it was literally me just standing in a certain spot in silvermoon

i flew away from it and sound came back

[keen dome]

VoraiousH in pugs is legit the hardest dps check I've seen in WoW at heroic level lmao

[wanton sparrow]

ah newbie doubt that i had yesterday, with AA its Shadowstrike>Evisc>Shadowstrike>Evisc or Shadowstrike>Evi>Evisc>Shadowstrike ?

[tribal blade]

might be related to this

thank god scared the shit out of me

[gaunt widget]

Sounds better then i expected so im happy with that! Ty for the respond

[alpine wraith]

people tunnell too much on the adds

they can survive literally as he is almost channelig the beam

[keen dome]

It's not even that.

We had really quick add kill and abck to boss, average DPS 50k+, and the boss still hit enrage haha

[alpine wraith]

also might be a -1 or so usual healer comp you just need dmg

[keen dome]

Yeah, we ended up killing with 2/2/6

I'm not sure I want to bother killing Saladbar this reset 'cos outside of tier, his loot is very mid

[verbal kelp]

how do i use the trovehunter's bounty? does it have to be inside a delve or has to be tier 11?

[paper trail]

This Sims like 1k above feather equal ilvl, thats why i asked if sim bait

[alpine wraith]

needs to be at least tier 8

and you can use whenever

as long as it is before killing the delve boss

[verbal kelp]

is it worth using now? or wait

[paper trail]

1 a week

[alpine wraith]

use it this week yea it is capped to 1 a week use

[unkempt yacht]

Hey, this means that in 3 target encounter we always use SS during SD ?

[wet anvil]

wtf is that? like why i cant change to heal or tank and why is curio locked? 2 days ago i had all unlocked on my monk is all unlocked also but here for some reason its locked

[tribal blade]

@bleak night

pretty good game

i'm starting to get my pvp legs back

i'm playing sin because it's not really much set up

sub is way harder to play in arena than sin

just spread bleeds and tunnel someone

[bleak night]

i didnt play against any assa rogues

but holy fuck sub rogues were annoying

fuckers kept tunneling me and constantly ccing

[keen dome]

Haha

[tribal blade]

yeah sub is really strong

[bleak night]

learned a new hatred

[tribal blade]

but thing is if not piloted well sub is not that great

[bleak night]

yeah i can definitely see it

[tribal blade]

actually that's rogue in general

in pvp

the skillcap for rogue in pvp is kinda high

[bleak night]

yeah a few people in my guild do actual pvp and they've told me the same

actually being good at rogue in pvp is not easy

[tribal blade]

yeah it's hard

you know it's hard when my guildies said the exact same thing to me today when i was losing my mind haha

[bleak night]

lmao

[tribal blade]

also i don't get it, i play like shit and i get trained the entire game

i dominate and then get trained the entire game

[keen dome]

that's me

[tribal blade]

so i dunno what to do

[tribal blade]

U R MASSIVE

[bleak night]

its pretty funny when you get into a lobby and theres one guy whos just obviously weaker

and you watch him get tunneled every single round

[keen dome]

Me reading the damage meter, dying to Voraius slam, going "FUCK" in raid chat, then immediately dying a second time: massive loser

[tribal blade]

dude solo shuffle is SO toxic

[bleak night]

most of the time that was me

[tribal blade]

this shit is mega toxic

[keen dome]

If you get someone to ragequit solo shuffle you should get an achievement

It's extremely funny

[bleak night]

i only got told to kill myself once, so overall it went pretty well

[tribal blade]

LOL

[keen dome]

My fav memory during.. DF? was loading in, a warrior on my side bitching at me about how abd i was

[tribal blade]

i got from a guy "ok you do high dmg but no cc" earlier today

[keen dome]

then I was against him and I killed him in 5 seconds and he ragequit the lobby

[bleak night]

i watched a dh flame the everliving fuck out of both healers though

[tribal blade]

proudest moment

[bleak night]

that was very funny

[bleak night]

i had a guy rage at me for not kiting properly

[keen dome]

Just get everybody tilting except you

easy win

[bleak night]

which funnily enough actually taught me a bit about how to kite

[tribal blade]

lol idiot

(the guy not you)

[sweet moss]

without PP talent do we black powder on 2 targets or 3?

[keen dome]

my logs are not good but i will take the kill lmao

ahaha

[tribal blade]

the last time i looked at the numbers it didn't seem worth w/o PP talented but i could be wrong

was close though

[sweet moss]

hm okay

so at 3 targets without ig

[tribal blade]

it's first week 😉

[stone vessel]

do we use trickster opr deathstalker on ST?

[sweet moss]

trick

[tribal blade]

i think so but i'm not 100% sure

i could be missing something

[tribal blade]

i did that just now when i was getting trained and managed to get away instead of face tanking x2 dps smacking me

[bleak night]

lmao

[tribal blade]

also learning to just hit feint on cd

[bleak night]

the part for me to learn there was to kite them around pillars and shit

[sweet moss]

why would u feint on cd

ohh

pvp

[bleak night]

try and get them to los their healer

[tribal blade]

yeah pvp haha

you essentially can have crazy high uptime on it

[bleak night]

bc im not escaping shit as spriest but i can control where they stand as they beat my ass

[tribal blade]

and then if you get stunned you take a lot less dmg

[grizzled hornet]

i will quote @vale pine , as i had a discussion regarding this today
"basically its like this:
BP is always worth it over evis on 3 targets, so you would always BP on 3 targets
Potent Powder increases the output of BP by quite a bit, this makes the diffrence more noticable.
This means without Potent Powder, BP is not worth it over Evis on trickster on specifically two targets.
For 3+ target fights Potent Powder starts to increase the overall output enough to take it over Veiltouched (which would be the talent you swapped from)

However for the specific 3 target fight like paladins, you will have situations you have 2 targets or you might want to prioritize damage on one target.
This opens oppotunity to intentionally switch off from BP to Evis.

So later in the fight, when health pools need to be equalized, you can switch play style to slightly increae your single target output at the cost of aoe.
The trade off there depends on talents:
With Potent powder, you roughly lose 5% of your AoE output, for a 16% increase in single target
Without Potent Powder you roughly lose 9% of your AoE output, for a 13% increase in single target

So players can (but don't need to) optimize finisher use further. Tho this can get even more complicated if we start to optimize for priority damage (in which case we likely won't play trickster).
From a generalized pov, its very simple, as using BP always (unless its pure st) is for the majority of times the corretc gameplay on the fight"

this is what Fuu told me, the question was specific to the council fight but it answers your question for sure.

[bleak night]

https://klipy.com/gifs/ultrasad

[tough mist]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

shit caster lobby

my nightmare

here we go

[hollow spear]

shit caster lobby?

[reef crater]

Is it good practice to cast backstab at max cp few sec before dance to generate extra shadow tech stacks?

[sweet moss]

was wondering this too^

[valid yoke]

How is subs tier set looking? It sounds good to my untrained eye

[grizzled hornet]

it is recommended to not use a finisher, you can backstab to not cap energy but do not overdo it so you can enter shd with enough energy

[sweet moss]

something around 7% + 4% so giga srong

[valid yoke]

Hell yea

[sweet moss]

whats a recommended number of shadow tech stacks before entering?

[green blade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[glass kelp]

anyone clearing t11s yet?

[dusky mountain]

yes

[grizzled hornet]

as many as possible, in a raid scenario you are not so flexible as to "farm" them as a lot of things are happening, so in my personal opinion i would not overthink it and simply get as many as possible.

[valid yoke]

Just to tune in on this question as well, is there a set time before dance that we should avoid finishers to maximise apex?

3s? 5s? Feel it out?

[lilac stag]

[warm marlin]

having at least 1 is very good, 3 is great

[warm marlin]

robot does 3s, in my experience 5-7 is more realistic as if you finish at 4-5s left you sometimes wont have time to build back up before sectec ready

depends on how many sht you have at the time

[lilac stag]

@warm marlin did you do your heroic clear yet

[warm marlin]

vibes

[midnight iron]

guys is it all over

[warm marlin]

yes both of them, just need alleria

[keen dome]

Nice work

[lilac stag]

any luck?

[keen dome]

How did you find the DPS check on Voraious, with an actually good group?

[warm marlin]

got heroic guidon and 2 tier pieces

on N

nice cape

[warm marlin]

easy

[keen dome]

Nice

[warm marlin]

i didnt know he had an enrage

[keen dome]

hahaha

Yeah 3 beams and enrage

I assume you killed him after the 2nd beam?

[bleak night]

My guild may or may not have hit enrage 3 times

[keen dome]

Almost every good pull I had today hit enrage, haha

[placid blade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

It's def gonna be a pug problem for a week or three. But then be a joke

[smoky gorge]

Hey does Secret technique damage snapshot if i only got 1s of shadow dance left ?

[native zodiac]

My split is tonight

Guidon

[keen dome]

I hope you blast

And win prizes

[native zodiac]

Honestly sub felt better then i thought it would

Might send paladins as assa tonight though, did it as aub yesterday

[alpine wraith]

i lost guiden vs 2 uhdks

unluck

[keen dome]

A buddy gave me normal guidon, which was nice

But that's my only loot out of all of normal and 2 heroic

[alpine wraith]

i have the windrunner trink as veteran

might try and get it champion

or maybe try the pvp trink

it didnt perform badly on other seasons

[grizzled hornet]

This is something that depends on you decision making and cds, so for example if u have 5sec for sectec and a dance rdy, you have to decide to either send a finisher and builf max cps again in 5sec to send the dance with sect tec. It depends on the amount of enemies and the scenario. if it was a pure ST scenario where i wont be able to have sht stacks and full cp to enter dance, i would shit 5 sec stacking more sht stacks to enter dance. I hope it makes sense.

[placid crown]

Hi guys. Best log for vorasius NM. What I see is that bro barkai does evis evis when he can. Not using the minmaxing with the apex talent

[fiery fog]

The minmaxing is only for supercharged finisher atm

Every other instance is just double evis

[placid crown]

is it a new information ? ^^

[lilac stag]

a weekish?

new expansion, new season, new tuning.
changes can be frequent

[placid crown]

ok ok ty 🙂

[lilac stag]

would look at the FAQ updates for easy list of what is changing

[placid crown]

Not sure to understand in practice what is a "supercharged non-Secret Technique Finisher" as it could only be evis (or coup)... but as we macro sectec with the dance, the only supercharged finisher IS the the sectec

what info do I miss ?

[hazy breach]

Supercharger buffs the next 2 finishers

[drifting ether]

Got trinket, tierset and neck from raids

[placid crown]

ah yeah --' i'm dumb ty @hazy breach

[verbal kelp]

Do we have uise our Dawnlight Manaflux Catalyst now, or save it?

[ornate lake]

How is the algathar trinket for sub? Refused to sell it to a DK for 200K gold

I have the guilidon on vet tier

[valid yoke]

Gotcha

[grizzled hornet]

Fuu tries to update as much as possible the guide so i would suggest you check the guide frequently, as scAth said, its a new expansion, new season, a lot of tuning

[placid crown]

So for example at pull with BL, it should lead to : Strike - Blade+Dance+Sectec - Strike - Evis ....instead of.... Strike - Blade+Dance+Sectec - Evis

I would even say : Strike - Blade+Dance+Sectec - Strike - Evis - Evis is the good starter

[valid yoke]

Wait so, sectec is bad with apex?

[hazy breach]

Its not great, but its not horrible, but also

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[oblique rune]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jade urchin]

i feel like i had this problem way less last expansion but how do you handle coup and dance+tech being ready at the same time

[grizzled hornet]

SecTec apex clone is solely base on the phys hit of sectec, making it weak

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[hazy breach]

I mean its not really weak, its still about the same as an eviscerate clone. Its just weaker than it "should" be

[tribal blade]

shoutout to this talent in pvp

it's really good

REALLY good

it's interesting to see rogue talents from the pvp side

[valid yoke]

Well that’s shit - so if I get apex and sectec is up should I skip sectec for an evis for the apex then sectec?

Or still send on cd

[tribal blade]

if they fixed apex to work with sectec shadow clones would we start doing dance differently

to get around premed bug

i imagine it would become dance>strike>sectec

[hazy breach]

No

[valid yoke]

So still sectec anyways and then cry myself to sleep

Gotcha

[tribal blade]

you don't lose anything, the sht doesn't go anywhere

apex just doesn't proc

[valid yoke]

Riiight

[chilly talon]

Does sims hold 2min trinkets for next shadow blades or does it use on cd?

[hazy breach]

Hold for next blades

[chilly talon]

tyvm

[crystal bone]

in the scenario where sectec is off cd but blades still has 10 sec to go, do we send the sectec?

[spare bobcat]

If its a 10 sec window for blades coming up hold ur dance and sectec

[fleet acorn]

for the stat haste on sub is like little above 650 good - i have 670 with crit/mastery or 720 with crit/hasste cloak not sure what is smoother

to play

[vale pine]

Having a bit more haste is not bad, but 650-700 is roughly what we aim for

more haste gives you a bit more room for errors

[native zodiac]

650 without oils is prob close to perfect

[fleet acorn]

yea 670 is unbuffed

[native zodiac]

Perfectly fine, just dont use a haste flask then

[fleet acorn]

true ty

[humble rover]

just checked the top log on vanguard, looks like he is almost never casting shadowstrike, but the guide states

:ShurikenStorm: on 2 or more targets outside of :ShadowDance:, 4 or more while :ShadowDance: is active to build combo points.

but that encounter is only 3 targets? so what is the play?

[fleet acorn]

frrom what i know inside dance 3

[hazy breach]

Its 4 after the changes

[somber cedar]

That's an outlaw/assa boss

[humble rover]

so on that encounter, you never storm in dance?

[hazy breach]

correct

[fleet acorn]

for any sub rogue who is inhere did u pay the full amount for the embelishment rank 2? or just went with rank 1 for now?

[olive canyon]

i think i saw another change that if playing trickster we evis on 2targets now rather than bp

[fleet acorn]

like im thinking of cheaping out and rebuying later when cheaper

[olive canyon]

is that accurate

[hazy breach]

If you do not have potent powder specced (or have very very low mastery) yes

[polar solar]

can someone tell me why we craft a belt instead of wrists for example?

[lethal thorn]

thats a lie i got her to do so 2 minute ago xd

she still get the healing from orb sometime its less consistent but she still does it

[fleet acorn]

u can do either - 1 is bis for raid other bis for m+

[swift tinsel]

Was leveling her a bit last night while farming bountifuls, gonna have myth crests unlocked in another day or two lol

[grizzled hornet]

sorry i simply quoted the bug spreadsheet regarding the interaction of aa with sectec

[verbal kelp]

Is the empowering feather trinket good if we are already at 18% haste?

[short radish]

anyone got an addon to show cross on your char?

[vale pine]

think wiku has it

wildu*

moment

[short radish]

thanks

[high grotto]

]

[vale pine]

link

specific

[short radish]

❤️

[native zodiac]

Its okay, remember its a 2 minute trinket

[tribal blade]

yeah should be this handy addon called weakauras can do that for you king

[short radish]

weakauras my beloved

[swift tinsel]

[keen dome]

@swift tinsel Remind me, what was your Delve plan you were talking about yesterday?

[swift tinsel]

Oh, just speedrun level 4 to unlock myth crests from 11’s

[keen dome]

Oh yeah. I assume just doing bountiful and not spending keys?

[swift tinsel]

I got to 2.5

Yeah, I saved I think 3 of them since I’m only gonna do 3x 11’s to cap myth per week

[keen dome]

Nice

[swift tinsel]

Didn’t do the full 4 on 5 toons last night bc time, but burning keys on alts is a nice bump at 200 rep per key

[keen dome]

Nod

[swift tinsel]

If I do it on my 4 alts that’s what, 3200 rep alone?

[keen dome]

I don't have anybody else at cap yet so I probably can't do it.

But it's not a bad idea.

[high grotto]

do we still BP at 2 targets?

[swift tinsel]

From coffee keys

Yeah I figure alts are whatever and the champ gear they get is a gain anyways. With how flippantly the game throws key shards around I don’t feel bad and it’s very fast to get 600

We raid tonight so I’m gonna see how many bountiful I can clear across my toons and where that gets me

I’ll still be 10 myth short next week for craft but that’s what, one +7?

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1476887002019270761/Midnight_s1_fixed.png

[swift tinsel]

So if I game it correctly I can have a myth craft mainhand before Tuesday raid

[keen dome]

Yeah, very nice

I'll probably just slam keys on reset for it but it's a great minmax idea to save some time

[swift tinsel]

I’m gonna push my key as soon as I get home from work and hopefully guildmates are on too so we can just ball out lol

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

Weds is probably just gonna be my "do keys until hate keys" day

[swift tinsel]

I wanna do that but I also tend to go hard the first couple weeks and then by like week four I’m very tired of them lol

But the ksm catalyst charge early would be nice

[keen dome]

oooh, not bad. Thanks nemesis weirdo with the small head

[keen dome]

yeah that's my thinking, slam to 2k, get a myth weapon.

[swift tinsel]

Ooo very nice!

[keen dome]

Dumbo question but I can just map in a +8 and it won't matter this reset since no Myth without the grind.

[swift tinsel]

Correct

[keen dome]

Rad

Brain still works

[tribal blade]

ngl i didn't even know that

so the more you know

[swift tinsel]

I’m a little annoyed with myself for using my map right away bc I didn’t think I was gonna push for level four

[keen dome]

I used them on T11's almost all of TWW so I couldn't remember

[swift tinsel]

But you live and you learn lol

Yeah same lol

[keen dome]

But the hero item is on 8 or higher iirc

11 is just myth crests

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

[lilac stag]

The heroic PvP one in 2 weeks is all mastery and a little haste.

[tribal blade]

i got this

which is not bad

[swift tinsel]

Probs like 5 myth crests or something like that lol

[keen dome]

hell yeah

[lilac stag]

I think it’s one of the only heavy mastery necks

[swift tinsel]

Wanna trade that trinket for my shitty fears-you trinket?

Also hero track

[keen dome]

Haha

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/sup-girl-eyebrows-gif-25755293

[lilac stag]

I need to run my map delve then send champ crests for tonight.

[swift tinsel]

All my drops have been giving me less and less haste lol

[drifting ether]

Felt like nice raid for sub was fun to line cds, performance on first raid wasn't as good as i had to rl

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I changed my mind and sent about 160 champ crests yesterday bc it was like a 4% increase and I can still get 240 more lol

[keen dome]

I will absolutely take 'em

[lilac stag]

They’re only good this week

[swift tinsel]

And champ gear is whatever

Ye

[swift tinsel]

Damn dude very nice!

[keen dome]

game??

my bountiful champ item is the same neck the nemesis dropped

[alpine wraith]

yea send all champ crests

[keen dome]

with leech

[steep raven]

If you already have 4p, would 2nd embel craft on legs make sense over belt?

[indigo gorge]

any point doing delve 11s or just farm 8s ?

[olive remnant]

!sim

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[vale osprey]

Generally no, since you're gonna miss 3 ilvl of a high stat weight piece

[wintry heart]

4pc already? Damn

[chilly kite]

i feel lucky for getting the vessel but like jesus blizzard if we gotta do these stupid little mini games make it so we can see them -.-

[steep raven]

The only Myth legs you can get are from Alleria and M+ vault

[keen dome]

the vessel is so annoying to use

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel only thing I’m debating on is do I send all 4 bountiful keys of hold some for next week

[shell willow]

i got a heroic guidon it feels so damn nice but without 4pc my dance is outlasting my blades

[steep raven]

You have to be lucky to get them, but here -3ilvl but guaranteed myth on a big stat slot

[chilly kite]

it feels like sim bait, because you litterly cannot see them in raid with all the other class abilities

[steep raven]

Yeah, got lucky in LFR

[keen dome]

I think it is, yeah.

[stable marlin]

When yall are doing the dragons boss, are you delaying sending CDs off the rip so that they actually line up with add spawns?

[lilac stag]

There’s a reason why it’s not recommended as “bis” trinket setup

[chilly kite]

till M+ is it better to use a 4 buff'd version of the voidstorm trinket? since we are stuck at champ track currently

[vale osprey]

We did all of norm yesterday and half of heroic and got ONE piece of leather tier, watch split 2 today get all the leather sad

[steep raven]

I got 1 from NM, 1 from LFR and 2 catalysts

[hard trellis]

holy fk 97% imexile parse = 48% ret helper gg

rogue very good

[steep raven]

Tactical sandbaggin' to get buffs

[chilly kite]

its okay blizzard is on it, they hotfixed unholy today.

[hard trellis]

thank god

cant have dk not be good they havent been good in a long time!

[chilly kite]

i think unholy is actually higher damage than before the 20% nerf now

[hazy breach]

About the same, but yeah

[vale osprey]

You got the 1600? I really CBA 💀

[steep raven]

I like pvp. And for once Sub is not just a stunbot, sub is actually good

[chilly kite]

wait ranked pvp is out

[swift tinsel]

You get 8 this week

On one toon, 6 on the rest

[tribal blade]

sin is also crazy

and requires less brain cells to play in pvp

[steep raven]

Is it?

[fiery fog]

Cant have them not be a top 3 spec for a minute

[tribal blade]

yeah it's very good

[chilly kite]

sin is ez in pvp, just bleed

[steep raven]

I heard they're cheesy but outside of that is meh

[tribal blade]

you do insane dmg if you bleed spread properly

[tribal blade]

for hitting 1600 it's good 😉

[vale osprey]

5 helmets, 3 trinkets gaming

[tribal blade]

if you pilot sin well in pvp you'll do the most dmg in the lobby by a lot

[steep raven]

Out of 3 rogues, sub is the only one who can still "control" the game

[tribal blade]

yeah sin has much less control

[vivid yacht]

Anyone have a good cd macro with potions? Mine doesn’t seem to be working

[swift tinsel]

[steep raven]

/use Light's Potential
Just add that

[swift tinsel]

My rogue drops have been eh but I’m getting tons of warband gear for my dk so he’s chillin lol

[vale osprey]

I've got so much mail gear

[swift tinsel]

Also got a warband agi mace so my outlaw set is coming along lol

[vale osprey]

MM looking spicy

[swift tinsel]

Less so bc negative haste

[lilac stag]

I’ve got 4 left is what I meant

[swift tinsel]

Ohh

[steep raven]

Ah fuck it, I'm gonna craft legs for embel. No way I'm gonna bank on vault giving me good legs

[chilly kite]

i'm full champ track, but my hero delve was the verse neck : /

[swift tinsel]

So in my mind, it pays to only do 3x 11’s once you unlock myth then just send keys on 8’s

[chilly kite]

keeps giving me verse main stat items

[keen dome]

smart

[swift tinsel]

And since champ gear is a-plenty and not as good I just fired off mine

[keen dome]

I only have delves left to grind this week, done everything else outside of heroic raid prog

[swift tinsel]

But I’m also pushing for myth chests this week so I kept 3 keys bc I’m gonna do 3x 11’s anyways

I still have a couple of the weekly events but I’m capped on coffer shards so idk if I’m that compelled

[keen dome]

free gold, though

[swift tinsel]

true, I got 18k from doing Legendary item thing yesterday lol

[keen dome]

If I can get vet helm, shoulders and cloak then that's the final 3 Vet items sorted and I'll be able to upgrade stuff to champ crests

[vale osprey]

How many of you have done ?? now? There a vid going around on rogue doing it

[swift tinsel]

I did it first day

[vale osprey]

I'm like 252 and Valeera probably around ~18

[swift tinsel]

a handful of us in here did

[vale osprey]

With Valeera abuse or nah?

[swift tinsel]

just juggled threat

she wasn't getting healed from orbs when I did it though

just got some of the hot ticks

some folks had her getting the insta heal too

[spare totem]

Oofta

[alpine wraith]

yea you just save some juice for adds

[dreamy root]

she allways died for me , i just pressed feint and hard rezd her each time 🤣

[alpine wraith]

i ended up saving cds for last burn instead of killing last add tho

[unkempt oak]

Question, if I macro SB, SD, and SecTec together, will SecTec still get the empowered bonus from shadow blades? I know trinkets need to be activated before...

[chilly kite]

idk how but i have like 12 coffer keys after i converted the shards

[alpine wraith]

if blades is before on the macro it should

[swift tinsel]

yeah last add does literally nothing

and you can't kick it

or you risk not having it up for oneshot cast

[alpine wraith]

it does put a slow on you if it lives long enough

but i found the mfer casts it anyway

so i cbad

[swift tinsel]

yeah but moving fast doesn't really mean anything when nothing hurts lol

floor poop didn't even tickle

no frontals to dodge

[alpine wraith]

think floor and ball were missing one zero on the dmg situation

boss would have been 3x harder

[swift tinsel]

yeah they got Fatal Intent'd

if the orb succ ramped

that would be cool and insane

[fiery fog]

Its such an artificial difficulty though

Just tank it and hope valeera heals you enough

Meanwhile tanks and healers just stand there

[swift tinsel]

nah my tanks were getting trucked

[fallen torrent]

after sleeping I locked in and got it, shame there are no more spots in the eu hof

[swift tinsel]

granted they weren't crazy geared

[fallen torrent]

the key was using shadow dance to make valeera tank from time to time and use tricks for adds

[bold basalt]

are we using second spark on craft for boots or just the veteran crest?

[golden totem]

What's the trick to not get valeera killed / get her to heal up

Even when I juggle good with dance she stills dies p2~

And I get overwhelmed

[fallen torrent]

in my case I had to delay my dance a bit and tank with elusiveness feint and crimson vial

[golden totem]

No magic trick then

[fallen torrent]

but I didn't really delay that much, for context my valeera is lvl 21

[golden totem]

Mine is like 18

[fallen torrent]

maybe spam the fungal delve for a couple more levels and you got it

[lean blade]

Cast :Eviscerate: with 2 or less targets, :BlackPowder: if theres more.
Inside :ShadowDance: to build combo points: Cast :ShadowStrike: with 3 or less targets, otherwise :ShurikenStorm:.

are we still supposed to play like this?

[fiery creek]

What do we think?

Can't find it in any BiS List but looks decent tbh

[fallen torrent]

also remember to click the tricks buff to remove it after adds, if you wait and start hitting the boss with it on your valeera will die 100%

[swift tinsel]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to BiS lists, they're a unique scenario

if it sims well, its good for your gear

[fallow ingot]

26 pulls for boss ?? its fine no ?

[keen dome]

However many pulls you need to kill it is fine.

[gaunt goblet]

guys should I wait if my Coup de Grace proc outside of SD window? Or should I send it by cd

[oblique fable]

is there a macro to revive val for ??

[swift tinsel]

can use on cd, can also save if dance is up in a few seconds

[solar silo]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[gaunt goblet]

few means <5?

[swift tinsel]

ye around there is fine

will also let you pool some shadow techniques stacks for your next dance

I usually hold around 3-5sec depending on the situation

[steep raven]

Does the sim assume you pick every single thing on the floor for it to be bis?

[tulip light]

id assume so, yes

[stable plume]

Imo this trinket is sim bait

[keen dome]

It does, yeah

And I second it's sim bait 'cos the graphic on them is really hard to see.

[stable plume]

In raid, I was averaging 45% uptime with a majority of that being 1 stack. It’s like a way worse antenna

[tulip light]

i mean its good in theory but whenever a trinket requires picking stuff up / is hard to even see there might be better options even if lower sims

[steep raven]

So we have awkward haste trinkets, Puzzlebox and this shit as our top trinkets

Nice

[keen dome]

A lot of bosses are gonna be a huge pain with it, with how much goop, movement, etc is happening.

[tulip light]

we have super nice trinkets tbh. on use first boss pairs with blades and gaze / plume are just passive

[analog lynx]

guys i need your help. the faq advise to go for around 18% haste.

my sim - 6 targets 40 seconds for m+ - let me drop to 9% haste.

can this be right?

[stable plume]

It’s also close to impossible to see on certain fights this season

[tulip light]

forget % and get around 700 haste

[analog lynx]

so dont lock at sims for the moment?

[stable plume]

For trinkets sure but gearing is agility > 700 haste >> mast = crit > vers

[analog lynx]

also for m+ or only for raid ?

[stable plume]

Both but m+ likes mastery more than crit

[analog lynx]

okok

tyvm

[remote rapids]

I got Light Company Guidon so just guessing even with 700 haste, this is still good for the SB windows?

[keen dome]

Yeah it's a ton of stabbing speed

[tulip light]

yes

[steep raven]

Doesn't on use give you 3rd GCD in dance?

[left ledge]

what

[ionic elm]

hey guys, do we use second spark craft now for embellishment or just vet craft ?

[steep raven]

You press it before Shadow dance for it to adjust SD timer and with 700 haste you get another 700 which is a breakpoint for 3gcd in dance. Am I wrong?

[stable plume]

I’d wait and use vet casts until you see what gear you get

[left ledge]

im just confused why you're saying 3gcd in dance

are you struggling to get 3 gcds in dance??

or you mean 3 extra?

[steep raven]

ok, extra 3rd GCD

you have 2 with haste

On use gives 3rd

[left ledge]

idfk, but it reduces your sectec cd and lets you double sectec

[keen dome]

@final wasp there's breasts in the channel, help

[left ledge]

i think it gives you like 1.2 ish seconds of dance or something

i can check

[final wasp]

dang

someone was quick

[keen dome]

phew, the breasts have gone

that was scary

[graceful crown]

I got puzzle box, its an amazing burst now in ST

Got 140k in ST for seconds that was cool

[left ledge]

too bad its a 2 minute trink

otherwise it would be amazing

[graceful crown]

Yeah...

1.5m would be perfect

[left ledge]

not bad for m+ though

[steep raven]

Blasphemy

[left ledge]

gives 1.2 sec of dance

so yeah

extra gcd

idk if possibly 2 extra gcds at the highest possible ilvl

[steep raven]

!hate

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.

[steep raven]

What's the command for haste timers?

[sullen spruce]

Whats puzzlebox

[keen dome]

A trinket from Algeth

[graceful crown]

Agethar trinket

Algeth'ar yeah

[keen dome]

It has an on use cast time which makes it very annoying to use.

[steep raven]

Vendor it

[graceful crown]

I use it then vanish into shadowstrike i hate that we cant use it in stealth

Or shadowstrike and then puzzle but is not very safe

[raw wadi]

also moving brakes cast 😄

[keen dome]

Yeeep

It's so bad

[fiery fog]

On my alt i just use it on full cp before going into dance sectec

[keen dome]

I got in M0 and gave it to another rogue because I don't want that problem to deal with

[fiery fog]

Doesnt feel as bad ob sub tbh

[elfin hound]

[fiery fog]

Since youre not doing anything before going into cds anyway

[keen dome]

[tranquil blaze]

twins

[keen dome]

Huuuuge.

[elfin hound]

is there a catch up mechanic for erratic energies quest?

[compact violet]

is raidbot bugged ? did a droptimizer and the result is pretty strange

[steep raven]

gz!

[compact violet]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vdPmERbQFgXtmTBNJZykVv
how the fuck is alleria necklace a nerf

[fallow ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-huh-m4rtin-huh-huh-meme-what-cat-gif-5834484041415217257

[raw wadi]

maybe you have not enough crit

[compact violet]

then why cata boots are a nerf

with +26 ilevel

or vorasius ring

[uncut juniper]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[compact violet]

and how the fuck there is 2 socket on midnight falls neck

my raidbot is doomed

[plush roost]

They had to give the endboss something decent to loot

Pretty sure we want alleria neck anywsy

[wheat cradle]

I noticed that raidbot have a problem with socket in your neck and rings

[prisma galleon]

does anybody has tier set upgrade stets per class for me? i saw a link earlierthis week

[compact violet]

did one more to be sure

its worse guys

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qz7Wd2mBJZFmnUhWPCFVbS

[tranquil girder]

Is the crucible of erratic energy still bugged on raidbots?

[plush roost]

Its because youre already haste saturated and droptimizer doesnt just adapt the rest of your gear like topgear does

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[compact violet]

ive think about it, but i dont think thats enough to make a piece with +30 ilevel being bad

[left ledge]

probably because you also have a giant main stat gem in your neck

[hallow matrix]

Its the gem

As above said - you have -32mainstat from gem

[compact violet]

for the neck yes

for all other stuff

its non sense

[left ledge]

what other stuff makes no sense

[compact violet]

boots

[left ledge]

boots are low stat budget

[compact violet]

+19 ilevel even with wrong stats cant be a nerf

[left ledge]

and your haste isnt amazing

we have breakpoints

[tulip light]

should i still tricks my valeera going into ?? delve now?

[left ledge]

you are below the recommended haste breakpoint

so losing haste is obviously bad

the ilvl from boots is only 12 agi

[compact violet]

i dont understand it this way. If i'm already below, it cant be bad to loose more haste (ofc for more of another stat)

if it make me goes above or behind a breakpoint ofc its gonna impact a lot

[left ledge]

no thats when it is really bad

its when you're over that its not bad

our breakpoint isnt whether or not you get to play a certain way

[plush roost]

You have to be REALLY below or slightly above for it to be okay

[tulip heron]

When casting sec tec + SD on cd, you wind up at 1 min into a fight with

sec tec up, exactly 1 charge of SD, and 30 seconds remaining on SB.

in that situation do you send a sec tec + SD and hold SB for 10 seconds? or send a naked Sec tec and sit on an extra charge of SD for 10 seconds?

When looking at the ability log from raidbots im not sure how trusty that sample is, (note i only have 2 piece so this may change some behavior) I was curious if this behavior was just because I dont have 4 piece or not.

with lust on pull is also sending the second dance at the tail end of shadow blades with sec tec rather than sending the second charge of dance to cover the whole SB window.

Then without lust on pull it only ever sends 1 dance in shadow blades, and prefers to just delay sb for 10 seconds

[plush roost]

Yea that is all correct, you dont double dance when sec tec doesnt get lust haste (until tier)

[steep raven]

There's literally a disclaimer to not take ability log as a guide on how to play

[compact violet]

well all the haste breakpoint is about getting a gcd into dance

If i have 550 haste when we need 587 to get the gdc, going to 500 instead of 550 is whatever. But going from 600 to 550 is a huge loss bcs i loose the gcd

[left ledge]

as above said, play around sectec

thats the simplest way to think about it

if you cant sectec

dont dance

[plush roost]

Cd prioriry is literally sec tec >>>> all

[left ledge]

blades is not as strong as it once was

its still good, you get tier and it gets better and allows you to double dance

[graceful rock]

So single dance in non lusted blades?

[left ledge]

yea

[graceful rock]

Until tiers

[dense coyote]

on 2 targets do we build with shadowstrike and back stab or shuriken storm ?

[signal charm]

Is there an special way black powder works that I am missing? In keys I’ll have packs where I demolish them but others where I dip below the tank.

[radiant swift]

how so? ive sent double and the first one came back up within seconds to go into dance + stec after blades+double dance

[plush roost]

Well, no, 550 haste still is enough to land an extra gcd if u play without error. 587+ is recommended since human error and latency exists

500 haste however will never land an extra gcd in dance iirc

[graceful rock]

Do I just slam a haste flask even if I’m at like 670 haste?

[left ledge]

well you will have "one spare dance" for the entire fight this way

so you can technically send that second dance yes

but you should do it during lust

to get another sectec in

dance cd dont care about lust

[tulip heron]

yeah thats not going to happen though, at 1 minute if you send on cd, you wind up with 30 seconds remaining on sb, 1 charge and a fresh cd rolling of sd

thats why i was asking

[left ledge]

with tier you'll be able to execute that much easier

[plush roost]

Lowkey spec is contingent on having flag trinket or lust to enable an extra sec tec between dance recharge cds

[radiant swift]

wdym by spare? think most were up and running frequently barely ever 2 mybe for some seconds before blades come up - lust is only can i send another one with or without blades

[hallow matrix]

So should you only follow this if you have 4p?

[left ledge]

ngl, i have no idea what you've constructed as a sentence here

[brave ocean]

should i be hitting sectec during the 2nd dance in shadow blades even with no supercharged combo points?

[steep loom]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[radiant swift]

wdym by spare dance doing it as i said in the first message

[left ledge]

i meant if you single dance outside of lust

[plush roost]

Shouldnt have to once you have guidon

[graceful rock]

Heroic one dropped I was hoping my split toon would get it

[radiant swift]

with blades?

[left ledge]

yea

[brave ocean]

you think i get loot in my raid

[radiant swift]

why would u

[plush roost]

We havent had a single one drop in 6 splits

Gg

[left ledge]

without tier you dont get to fit the second sectec in

[radiant swift]

yeah but i then just sit on a dance

[brave ocean]

what about with no tier

[radiant swift]

might aswell send it ?

[brave ocean]

not worth optimizing for?

[left ledge]

thats the spare that im talking about

that i said you could send

[radiant swift]

i understand -

i see

i have no clue what we were on about tbh

[plush roost]

Basically what people are talking about above. U basically get 1 dance per blades with an "extra" for whenever

[left ledge]

i found myself holding it for some mechs, sending it some other times

[radiant swift]

think it doesnt change with tier either

[left ledge]

no you def always double send with tier

[brave ocean]

wait so i shouldnt send a 2nd dance during blades?

[radiant swift]

what is nice is

sendind dance and atec withiut blades for half dead packs

and then full next

[hallow matrix]

So is it blades -> dance + sectec (supercharged) -> dance -> sectec not supercharged -> third dances comes off cd and you just send without sectec? assuming no 4p

[plush roost]

Is fine with lust if u can fit supercharge sec tec in it, idk ur haste value

But no generally not really

[left ledge]

NO

that third dance will be held for sectec

do not send some naked dance without sectec

[plush roost]

Ahh boy i love hasted cds

[left ledge]

you will end up having to hold sectec for a dance

[radiant swift]

what rly? u sit on that dance?

for what

[hallow matrix]

so the core is you want to send sectec on CD, so you hold dance for it and always use as first 2 spenders in dance?

first dance first sectec, third dance for second sectec

[swift tinsel]

no double dance in blades outside lust? sign me up for big fun gaming

[twin summit]

If we’re sending sd+sectec off cd how do u get 2 charges of sd for 2nd shadowblades?

[swift tinsel]

realz please Shot in the Dark sectech I beg

[vagrant fulcrum]

you hold blades or dance for it

[swift tinsel]

the haste situation is not it

[vagrant fulcrum]

it doesn't line up cleanly, you will have to hold something

[twin summit]

Oh do u do like a naked sectec then for one rotation?

[vagrant fulcrum]

normally people hold blades for 10s ish

[left ledge]

nah to get 2 dances for blades you would hold

[vagrant fulcrum]

and just dont send dance when blades is ready (picture you have 1 charge, sectec ready and like 10s on 2nd dance)

you then send blades + dance + sectec when 2nd dance would come up after first ends

[tulip heron]

thats what i was asking here,#subtlety message

Sounded like situation is dont double dance in sb until 4pc

[brave ocean]

damn ive been playing wrong the whole time

[vagrant fulcrum]

that sounds kinda wrong no?

[solar silo]

Can someone explain why The First Dance is recommended for Imperator Averzian? Thought we can only proc it once per boss fight because we dont go out of combat

[vagrant fulcrum]

maybe im misunderstanding you but you saying you blades with 1 dance alone

[elfin hound]

i think we need a dance/sectec/blades guide

[left ledge]

#subtlety message is to #subtlety message

[visual heath]

@vale pine Do you recommend crafting a double dagger? And a belt without spark, or is a dagger and belt better?

[vale pine]

no

[raw wadi]

dagger+belt. since the second dagger (offhand) is more like pure stats

[vale pine]

don't craft a 2nd dagger

the offhand slot is one of he worse item slots

a belt is a very good 2nd craft option, bracers/boots are too

[visual heath]

kk

ty

[pure yacht]

Are combat potions extremely overtuned right now? 650 some odd main stat is insane lol

[rapid barn]

do u put the crafted dagger on main hand ?

[pure yacht]

Tempered potions last expac were just secondary stat and gave you a fraction of what you already had

[hallow matrix]

i am 10x more confused about sectec/dance after reading all this

[pure yacht]

This essentially doubles your agility

[olive remnant]

just to make sure i understood this correct. At the start of the fight i send 2 shadowdances during blades and when i have lust i also send 2. But during the fight when blades come up i wait with shadowdance until secret tec comes back up?

[vale pine]

you would use veiltouched

[left ledge]

yeah you dont dance without sectec

you play around sectec

[vale pine]

i had tfd in the talent loadout, fixed it now

[hallow matrix]

if i use blades outside of lust and have sectec + 2x dances, if i chain dances (19second cd on sectec and 20cd on dance) my third dance come s up like a second after my sectec does

[pure yacht]

*except for the second one in the 1m30s cycle / opener

[hallow matrix]

why wouldnt i double dance

[left ledge]

well yeah but ideally you would have the haste/tier to still be able to do it with sectec

[pure yacht]

yea its haste dependent right now

[vagrant fulcrum]

the issue is people want a simple rule to a question that fundamentally depends which spell you would lose / not lose a cast of for holding

[pure yacht]

However the haste needed to get it to such a low CD for the supercharged CP hit is pretty high

[left ledge]

yes you'd need lust

and maybe trinket

[faint hemlock]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[queen pelican]

You basically hold SD so you have two charges going into your SB window always

[olive remnant]

how does simming affect this? I have the haste trinket but passives sim better for me

[left ledge]

dance for sectec, blades with dance, you need to hold dance+sectec for 2 dances in blades

as of right now you can not get 2 sectecs in blades without tier (without lust)

so that second dance at 1:30 or whatever

is not in blades

well, maybe the first 2 gcds are

but its not in blades

[warped ferry]

Anybody else feel like our cooldown timers/usage are not the most intuitive on a lot of these bosses?

[left ledge]

yes without tier our cd usage is not intuitive

at all

regardless of boss

[pure yacht]

I'm not even sure the extra 4s of blades makes it any more intuitive. I think you still hold for the supercharged CP for sec tech.

[left ledge]

yeah its just slightly more intuitive

still not intuitive though

[pure yacht]

It's not that you just "try and sectech during a dance" it's that sechtech needs to be one of the first two finishers after dance

OH and you also want to try and have ancient arts up

The difference is disgusting

On a dummy a regular sectech did about 18k

On a dummy with supercharge + ancient arts + in dance it did 90k

[light finch]

Our AOE nerf was not really needed if i see the damage others do in AoE.

[left ledge]

listen, you just do not want to dance without sectec

thats literally all there is

[open coyote]

i've been trying to see if i can consistantly get AA up for sec tech but sometimes it feels like i have 10 stacks and i press SS and nothing procs

[left ledge]

if you cant sectec EVEN IN BLADES you do NOT DANCE

thats why without tier, your dance will be at the tail end of blades

[hallow matrix]

okay so at 1:30 when i have blades, 2x SD and sectec, how do i play it? only send blades, one dance, one sectec? then hold the second dance for the next sectec? surely im just wasting dance cd then?

[left ledge]

with tier, you can safely fit it

[open coyote]

wait so during pull would you do blades dance sec tec then pop 2nd dance during blades?

[warped ferry]

Okay thought I was tripping, knowing when to use cooldowns seemed less obvious compared to last tier, looking at lorrgs seems even everyone is the same because there isn’t much consistency

[left ledge]

sorry i forgot to add

WITHOUT LUST

fk this spec

[open coyote]

i might be reading your words too litteral

[left ledge]

yes without lust lets say at the 1:30 pop, your dance just wont be entirely in blades

it will have maybe 2 gcds in blades

[steep raven]

Here's what simbot does with tier
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3kaPnwHgJEmyTiyfd9hhjB

[vagrant fulcrum]

@left ledge wanted to ask, don't you have excess dances to use?

[left ledge]

no