subtlety

[frail kindle]

yeah bro sub might actually be CRACKED next week

[swift tinsel]

cracked in half

[frail kindle]

like the fact that its looking so low rn, pre huge tier set is big

[swift tinsel]

heyo

[keen dome]

The DPS check today is pretty brutal

[finite crow]

so we are running ns for first two bosses?

[swift tinsel]

what's the avg ilvl?

[shrewd lantern]

also her curios suck

[stoic anchor]

emergency help for a balkan boiii. at dragons boss do i finish with BP or evisc?

[keen dome]

Like, 240 - 250

[west tide]

both bro lmfao

[warm marlin]

if you're playing trick eviscerate unless there's 3 targets or more

[swift tinsel]

she needs sectech that's as good as hatarang was

[keen dome]

Nobody above 250 I think.

[swift tinsel]

ah yeah that's prettttty rough

[shrewd lantern]

valeera doing40-50% autoattack damage

[warm marlin]

unless you're playing PP

and then you can bp on 2 (actually maybe a lie)

[swift tinsel]

esp for a pug

[shrewd lantern]

true goals

[warm marlin]

bp evis are like equal on 2target if you have PP so itll depend on your mastery level, but will be similar regardless

[shrewd lantern]

Just evis because less brain input

[stuck arrow]

It's troll because half the curios don't even work in the boss fight. 😂

There's one where she deals 1% of enemies HP as a random proc on your attacks. With it she'll do like 70k DPS in a regular delve.

Then back to 2k DPS vs the boss. 😂

[stiff pollen]

arewe still going for the gaze + light company guidon?
From what I see on bloodmallet LCG + vessel might be simming the best

[shrewd lantern]

oh i got that one but it seemed to do zero damage

not as bad as the entropic shiv

[warm marlin]

it's guidon + some passive of your choice

gaze will probably be hard to get

[stuck arrow]

Definitely does damage in regular delves. Lol he DPS bar is like 95% that curio.

[warm marlin]

there's a few that are similar

[shrewd lantern]

just pull it from vault

jk if thats your best vault choice

doomed

[west tide]

gaze dropped for us

[swift tinsel]

plume > vessel

[shrewd lantern]

we had one drop on both difficulties

[swift tinsel]

don't @ me

[west tide]

gave it to da warrior

[warm marlin]

ya but doesnt everyone still want gaze

i assume if its still bis for us its still bis for everyone

[lilac stag]

I ended up doing trinket solo and back to full swifty macro. Felt better with 16 sec blades

[shrewd lantern]

unironically the world boss trinket is probably just as good

[stiff pollen]

even plume sims better than gaze on bloodmallet

[shrewd lantern]

since they’re all just stat sticks

are they not

[idle mango]

hi there. Is DAGGER mandatory in OH ? Or is it just recommended for poison application or something like that?

[swift tinsel]

the crit one was a loss for me

vs vet vessel

[hazy breach]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[hazy breach]

Unless you want to lose 10% of your energy and combo points you have to use a dagger in your offhand

[swift tinsel]

and 243 drum trinket

[tepid quartz]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[sullen spruce]

sorry if this is asked before, is there a spreadsheet on which talents to take on each boss in raid ?

by that i mean st/aoe

[stiff pollen]

I usually base it off of warcraftlogs

[shrewd lantern]

I mean its on the wowhead guide

there is one talent swap

[stable plume]

almost every boss, trickster ST build seems to be good

[idle mango]

thx.! Is it related to a talent or something?

[sullen spruce]

okey guyds thanks ❤️

[stable plume]

deathstalker may come ahead in a few fights but only slightly

[west tide]

ya forsure, i do the loot i gave him it it was like double our dps

[warm marlin]

just play trickster st and swap to potent powder sometimes if you want to do a lil bit of padding

[west tide]

also every class gets like double our dps from items its bs!!

[shrewd lantern]

is it degen to hold cds on chim to pad on adds

[hazy breach]

A passive yes, the one mentioned in the first response

[shrewd lantern]

asking for a friend

[west tide]

ye they die fast enough

[stable plume]

yes if adds die no problem, no if they actually matter

[shrewd lantern]

its a joke

i sent on pull anyway

[west tide]

i got grey parse on that shit tho so

[shrewd lantern]

same but i didnt enchant my oh

[west tide]

be group 1 u up

[shrewd lantern]

or chest

which likely influences

[stiff pollen]

I am not giving 40k gold for a chest enchant on 240ilvl

lol 😄

[shrewd lantern]

mfw we didnt even assign

[obtuse latch]

are ilvl parses cope or useful, I went into normal with 235 ilvl, got 95+ ilvl parses but like 50-80 overall

[shrewd lantern]

except healers

[idle mango]

I dont see which talent or passiv your are talking about, but I ll figure it out. thx a lot for the quick and kind answere

[night gyro]

on emberrwing trink , use every other shadowblades?

[hazy breach]

Shadow Techniques

[hazy breach]

yes

[night gyro]

ty buddy

[frail kindle]

how is the vessel trinket as a passive? like how aids is it to get the orbs

[azure mauve]

i assume same with puzzle box right?

[frail kindle]

it sims REALLY high

[hazy breach]

yes

[swift tinsel]

they're kinda hard to see if theres a bunch of spell effects

[night gyro]

ive been looking for an aura tracker or something , but no luck

vessel is pretty ass to manage. Is it worth using if your not getting a ton of souls?

[hazy breach]

Nop

[swift tinsel]

it sims with 4.5 avg souls buff or something like that

[drowsy oak]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

so if you're not getting that then in practice its not as good

[final hound]

My chest is green 214 and RNG loot hates me,

would it be bad to craft one? since i got decent hero/champ daggers anyway?

[stuck arrow]

Not bad to craft a blue one to 246. Is ideal TBH.

Can also put an embellishment on it if you're holding sparks.

[final hound]

i kinda forgot we can craft blue gear

[indigo wraith]

What you guys think about the Vessel of Tortured Souls Trinket, It sims higher for sure but in Raid its kinda hard to see those void thing on the ground we need to pickup. What is your Argument on this trinket. A must equip or better equip another one

[swift tinsel]

scroll up a handful of messages

if you aren't consistently at 4-5 stacks of souls then its not as good as the sim suggests

[spiral needle]

If they're hard to see in the raid, it answers your own question pretty much

[distant lodge]

Regarding trinkets, the sapling of the dawnroot, does that just sim crazy good or? My sims prefer to keep a sapling 237 over Crucible (246) and Void-Reaper Libram at 250

[stable plume]

for reference, on crown last night (focusing on mechanics), I had 44.69% uptime, mostly at 1 stack

[swift tinsel]

yeah imo its not really that great of a trinket in practice

as someone who's been using it since day 1 of m0 release

that's why I'm plume pilled over vessel

[stable plume]

too bad u can't get that yet

[swift tinsel]

if you're in a fight with legitimately zero mechanics to pay attention to its great

[shrewd lantern]

the void libram feels kind of mid

[swift tinsel]

skyreach trinket is a decent alternative in the meantime

[sick sand]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[keen dome]

1% wipe because tanks put the boss in the zone and he went immune.

I am so dead

[shell vector]

As a still relatively new to retail player why do people call it a "pre-pot" I come from classic where that meant you pot before pull so you can get another pot in the fight but that's not how it works in retail right??? Why would you pot BEFORE you're doing damage and waste uptime

[shrewd lantern]

Because wow players are old

and never adjusted terms

since that got changed

[vale vault]

uhh which enchant we use again?

[shrewd lantern]

i dont think i hear anyone still call it prepot

[hazy breach]

If it is used it typically just means use it on pull

[vale vault]

wep enchant*

[shell vector]

The people I hang out with do and it actually drives me insane

[shrewd lantern]

you can on pull with your cds

and bloodlust

[hollow spear]

is it normal to get showered with bountiful keys when you enter a delve?

[swift tinsel]

yes

it automatically converts your coffer key shards

[shrewd lantern]

do you get shards from weeklies

like in tww

[swift tinsel]

yeah

you get them from like

literally everything

hunts, delves, weekly's

[shrewd lantern]

tww it was wqs or weeklies yeah

[jovial ginkgo]

I capped out just from hunts

[swift tinsel]

I hit cap and have done like...3 delves, 2 weeklys

and a handful of prey hunts

[stoic anchor]

do the small many adds at the 2 dragons count towards parses?

[swift tinsel]

yeah I think nightmare hunts give 100 shards each

[shrewd lantern]

it was only 200 shards in s3 a week though

[swift tinsel]

hard hunts are 75

[shrewd lantern]

and 2 full keys

iirc

[swift tinsel]

4 keys a week previously

6 now

and you can get 8 this week on 1 toon

[limber ore]

Are we still doing trickster for ST?

[swift tinsel]

bc of the free bag you get in the delve hq from the quest valeera gives

[shrewd lantern]

is this including the ones you buy for undercoin

those didnt count typically

[swift tinsel]

no

those don't count

but they're limited to 2 per week

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i used those to get 6 bountifuls a week in tww

[swift tinsel]

have to unlock them

[shrewd lantern]

ye

[swift tinsel]

so yeah if you're just playing one toon its 8 per week normally including the 2x for undercoin

bc iirc the 2x from undercoin are 2 per warband per week

[shrewd lantern]

damn preys give them too thats funny

thougjt had to rely on weeklies

[swift tinsel]

yeah if you do 3x nightmare prey you also get a beacon to summon the delve nemesis for a map

if you don't get one natty

from the quest that vampy boi gives

[shrewd lantern]

oh thats where you get the item now

to summon

[swift tinsel]

you buy it from the delve vendor like usual but you get one as a quest reward from prey

[shrewd lantern]

natty usually means the nemesis random ganks you

mid delve

[swift tinsel]

in addition to 20 hero crests

well he can natty invade or you can get a map from the end of delve chest

I got mine from a non-bountiful chest in a bountiful College run

[shrewd lantern]

oh im aware since that hasnt changed

from tww

im a degen who had 100 bran like

first 2 months of s3

[swift tinsel]

Oh yeah I max my journey and companion level very fast

[frozen sphinx]

do delve bounty maps drop from bountiful delves only?

[shrewd lantern]

Idk if i ever completed the 1k delves achiev

[swift tinsel]

I'm at like 600something

that was the only delve achievement I didn't get in tww

oh that and the puzzle one

[shrewd lantern]

lmao

[swift tinsel]

idk why but my puzzle spawn rate was fucking gutter trash

600 delves done and not 100 puzzles

[shrewd lantern]

i dont think i bothered with puzzles

[weak vector]

Are we good to craft our 272 weapon or should we hold onto those hero crests?

[jolly wave]

anyone else have default combo points randomly showing up and disappearing. My cd manager shows them so I dont need to see it

[west tide]

hold em

u wastin crests doin that u will likely just send mythic crests on that craft anyways

[weak vector]

That's what I was thinking. 259 -> 272 isn't a huge jump anyhow. Thanks!

[shrewd lantern]

2nd boss drops a weapon

so uhh

lol

[west tide]

im slammin my myth crests on my weapon bro

[swift tinsel]

same

[shrewd lantern]

we get first kill

trust

[swift tinsel]

that's why I'm on the fence about omegadegening delves to get myth crests

[west tide]

and if god loves me and drops me a mythic weapon i will have a chad weapon to upgrade next week

[swift tinsel]

bc I can 100% unlock them this week and have 3x keys to get the 20 crests

[shrewd lantern]

and make pvp bracers

[swift tinsel]

then another 20 next week insta

[west tide]

how many is it to upgrade i have 30 myth only

[weak vector]

I'm capped on crests, just trying to do the ? delve to push me over

[shrewd lantern]

i did some shit like this in s3

[hazy breach]

80

[west tide]

pvp bracers

[shrewd lantern]

where i hoarded 3 weeks worth of maps

[west tide]

i need rings so bad dude

[shrewd lantern]

to pop into tier 11s

[west tide]

i think ima do double rings on god

[shrewd lantern]

for instant gilded

[west tide]

i need somethin to hold down my haste while i gather gear

[swift tinsel]

my gear in general is so poorly itemized but its an ugly mix of vet and champ atm lol

[shrewd lantern]

im prob gonna make a ring

since i got a belt in raid

lmfao

[swift tinsel]

I'm gonna farm a champ Omission of Light

[jaunty fossil]

we craft which item first guys ?

[shrewd lantern]

also this to cover 2nd embellish

[shrewd lantern]

is this the first expac without an armor patch embellish

[west tide]

i have a normal belt ima spark craft the utility belt anyways

i cba thinking anymore on that

[jaunty fossil]

thank you

[shrewd lantern]

im just doing it since i can socket

got 8.5k honor

anyway

[west tide]

haste mast on the belt hast crit on the daggie

so haste from food flask dont count right?

[shrewd lantern]

raw stat haste counts

not % gains

[civic sapphire]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[hazy breach]

+12 haste = works
+3% haste = not work

[west tide]

ok so i can flask haste and be chillin with doodoo gear

[hazy breach]

Yes

[keen dome]

@swift tinsel i killed it, two guns dropped, we had a single hunter

[dry flame]

@keen dome ty for prog 💋

[swift tinsel]

what the fuck

[keen dome]

Which rogue were you, haha?

[swift tinsel]

[dry flame]

the one with u from the start

the one who tried different things

[swift tinsel]

that's so unbelievably troll

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, you did great. Thanks for joining.

[dry flame]

the one who held your hand

[keen dome]

Hahaha

[dry flame]

the one who faced those tanks together

[keen dome]

That 1% wipe, man

[dry flame]

back to back to back

[keen dome]

Our tanks kept trolling us and putting the boss in goop at like, super low HP

[olive igloo]

even if other items are simming much better? i have been struggling 😬

[hollow spear]

if you sim yourself now, it will obviously want you to replace the shittiest item

[dry flame]

we get the trinket in vault now nw

but we dont take it, and we kill it next week

[warm marlin]

gonna channel my best charrend impression tonight (pad like crazy so we don't get buffed)

[solar silo]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[olive igloo]

i guess

[muted girder]

anyone actually using puzzle box right now? how aids is it... just got one

[hollow spear]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-fuck-off-go-away-just-go-leave-me-alone-spicy-wings-gif-14523970

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah i mean

the second slot really doesnt matter

its always been just the weakest slot

boots were just a non option last tier due to soulhunter ones

and cloak

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[dry flame]

next week we pug it on mythic ye?

[hollow spear]

I sure love those high versatility pieces I get from my bountiful chests

[cosmic creek]

is it ever a good idea to use more than one acuity of rendorei enchants at the same time? sims showing to do so but everywhere else i've read doesn't recommend.

[keen dome]

absolutely.

[shrewd lantern]

the sweaty “best” option is embellish pvp conq heraldry item

[dry flame]

[shrewd lantern]

i.e bracer

and socket

[swift tinsel]

fuckin felt as fuck

lmao

crit/vers

[keen dome]

First boss is a banger fight on heroic though

[swift tinsel]

everywhere I look

[shrewd lantern]

it feels weird

to actually like haste

what a 180

[keen dome]

2/4/17 for the kill, too. And barely made it.

[swift tinsel]

oh nice 3x m0 daggers are only 0.2% behind raid dagger for me

[keen dome]

lol

[swift tinsel]

droptimizer my beloved

[shrewd lantern]

raid an m0 dags should both be the same no?

if champ

[dry flame]

yeah but on boss dmg you melted ✊

[drifting fable]

do we storm or strike on paladins

during dance

[shrewd lantern]

strike belown3

[swift tinsel]

the m0 are all haste/X, raid is vers/mastery

[keen dome]

I just sat on the boss the final few pulls. I think in future, I'll probably decide a group to sit on him all times. Probably should've had the mages sit him

[dry flame]

you were pumpin boss, so i went back to add patrol

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

The Assa guy we got was doing real good too.

[drifting fable]

so everyone on logs is just playing wrong? lol

[red vortex]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[jaunty fossil]

if i have %13 haste i have craft belt to crit mastery?

[fair phoenix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[left ledge]

If you don’t have 700 haste, get 700 haste

[swift tinsel]

you can sim the craft with different stats in Top Gear

[jaunty fossil]

ahh okay thank you mate ❤️

[left ledge]

Haste breakpoint into ilvl while trying to avoid vers

[swift tinsel]

I just

really don't like breakpoints

[keen dome]

same

[west tide]

the sim will also stop reccin haste way before it should

[dry flame]

I can choose either 17% haste or 24% haste with the gear i have atm

[drifting fable]

wym

[fiery fog]

you dont look for % haste though

[west tide]

its bis to be like 700+ for human error

[drifting fable]

so im griefing by being at 620

[west tide]

that shit will stop at 17% instead of 20

a lil at that level

[fiery fog]

im only at 580 haste

[jaunty fossil]

solarfare prism good for us for beggfiner?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

its good

[drifting fable]

is this pre buffs like flask

[warm marlin]

my sim wanted me at 690ish

it was good

[snow birch]

I still can't do dmg lmao

[west tide]

i think in total

[drifting fable]

so i want to be 700 before buffs?

[west tide]

total total

[drifting fable]

?? lmao

[west tide]

lmaoo

overall after

[drifting fable]

o

lmfao

[swift tinsel]

between gear and consumes/enchants

[drifting fable]

ok i was griefing last night i went fucking mastery flask

💀

that did not get me 700 haste

[swift tinsel]

I did too bc it wouldn't have put me over

[drifting fable]

also

is raidbots showing the good enchants and gems for yall?

[shrewd lantern]

idk probably

[drifting fable]

and why is it rank2

[shrewd lantern]

its supposed to be strike at 2

[round harness]

is having a sword in offhand on sub braindead? i wanna play outlaw as well was wondering if i could just craft a sword and a dagger lol

[drifting fable]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[tribal vortex]

just get a dagger OH

[lethal thorn]

just got trolled by delve

[tribal vortex]

it doesn't really matter

[lethal thorn]

same trinket 1hero 1 champ

[shrewd lantern]

i got a fist in normal

because no one wanted

[drifting fable]

i got a heroic fist

outlaw szn

[swift tinsel]

I got catalyst bait shoulders lol

which I probably won't use for anything

[drifting fable]

i did get guidon so ig im pretty lucky

[shrewd lantern]

crest saver

basically

[swift tinsel]

ye pretty much

[west tide]

how long before cds do u need to guidon

is it cringe or w

[swift tinsel]

how long is the buff?

[shrewd lantern]

right before you dance

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

[slim stag]

Hey I have a question for single Target during my Shadow dance window do I just Spam my generator ability to try to get proc on Apex talents or just do the normal rotation

[swift tinsel]

if I don't have my guidon natty bound it'll be macrod to blades and hit just before dance/sectech macro

if/when I get one

[shrewd lantern]

what if you dance sectech faster than the 0.2s activation

[swift tinsel]

double passive prison atm

[shrewd lantern]

checkmate

[swift tinsel]

I'm old

hehe

[tall venture]

Apologies if this is an obvious question. Are we waiting a couple of seconds between dances during blades ?

[swift tinsel]

wait does that Mana Divining Crystal tech that Arcane used before work for that

to initiate a slight delay

the one from legion that toggles showing ancient mana nodes on your map

[slim stag]

Ok thank you I'm new to sub so I was not sure what I supposed to do

[swift tinsel]

you'd macro into I think it was your Touch/Barrage

[hazy breach]

The proc isnt random, you'd only do it if you know for sure that it actives

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[shrewd lantern]

idk you overthought that

[swift tinsel]

and it would keep things from insta-firing bc using the crystal would add a very slight delay

[shrewd lantern]

dance sectech strike evis

is typically how it flows natty

idk

[red vortex]

dit i misstype the potion or what? i have the right name right?

#showtooltip Shadow Blades
/use Light's Potential
/use 13
/use 14
/cast Shadow Blades

[honest void]

bruh wth do u do on vanguard

[west tide]

get carried

[honest void]

just bp spam and pray?

[oak hearth]

what we craftin blood

embellishments and what not

[hollow spear]

Never heard of that, but might be a cook

[swift tinsel]

unfortunately I don't have a haste trinket to test it atm

random shower thought though

[warm marlin]

how does one acquire a mana divining stone

[swift tinsel]

it was a legion quest in suramar iirc

https://www.wowhead.com/item=141652/mana-divining-stone

I threw some info in tc-sub in case someone with a bigger brain and appropriate gear wanted to check it out

idk if it would work with two items though in the same macro

or how it would be written per se

[tall venture]

Hey all, quick question. I know we want to send 2 dances during blades. But my Sec Tec CD is 19s and dance is 7.4. Do we wait in between dances to fit the sec into the second dance window ?

[warm marlin]

hmm

[wispy pebble]

For aa do we even bother to trigger it if we dont have supercharged points left?

also in faq it says that on all target counts as trickster we should ensure its for supercharged and then (This can mean using Shadow Strike at full CP to activate it) in aoe we use storm instead of strike right?

[hazy breach]

No

[spice crag]

where can i find an updated bis list?

[celest ice]

i opted out from doing the aa thing coz im just that stupid and i hate it

[wispy pebble]

always shadowstike? Doesnt Storm trigger it as well?

[hazy breach]

Storm would also trigger it ye

[wispy pebble]

why do we use strike then?

[spice crag]

anyone know? I'm out of touch with retail resources.

[hazy breach]

You can use storm if you want to, but strike generally does more damage

[spice crag]

Strike is always better than storm til what, 10-11 targets lol

[hazy breach]

No

[honest void]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-giving-buffs-to-unholy-dk-after-nerfing-them-too-much-380851?utm_source=discord-webhook

blizzard pls

remember us too ty

[oak hearth]

what ilvl can we craft up to atm

[wispy pebble]

Until 3 targets? Or literally always else im confused why wowhead aoe prio is

6. Cast Shadowstrike with 3 or less targets
7. Cast Shuriken Storm.

[torn tide]

real

[hazy breach]

Ok so strike gives 2 combo points right

Storm gives way more

[warm marlin]

it seems to delay a bit but my mashing is still too fast /use 13 /use 14 /castsequence Bubble Wand, Essence of Yu'lon, Shadow Dance

[hazy breach]

But if you are at full combo points

Thats irrelevnat

[swift tinsel]

dangit

ty for looking into it though!

[hazy breach]

And 1 strike also procs macabre

Since youll do storms the rest of the dance

[wispy pebble]

ah thanks! Is using shadostrike instead of storm when at 4 cp in aoe an optimization?

[charred horizon]

so you know to cast shadowstrike if you're full cp and have 5+ stacks of shadow techniques

[wispy pebble]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[charred horizon]

ok

[hazy breach]

In practice it shouldnt happen often as trickster

[young harness]

do i trust sim? this trink is better than on use emberwing?

[hazy breach]

Because you should have a couple of sht stacks from pooling

[heady garden]

do i send 80 hero crests upgrading a 2/6 hero weapon to max?

[swift tinsel]

are you doing mythic

[heady garden]

i will be

[wispy pebble]

Okay. And aa force only for supercharged? I remember there being discussion about it being worth up to a single target count (sorry last question)

[swift tinsel]

since we have a dagger off first boss I'd be hesitant

[heady garden]

yeah thats why im torn

[remote rapids]

outside of Shadow Blades do you ever cast Dance without SecTec? Maybe once or twice a fight if any?

[west tide]

never do it u either send the weap on myth next week save those crests bro

[heady garden]

yeah true, need to recraft my dagger to mythic anyway

ty

[wild narwhal]

a few times yes, specifically if I know the second sblades will be up in time for next SecTec

[remote rapids]

but never SecTec without dance, correct?

[wild narwhal]

correct

[swift tinsel]

theres extremely rare times you would

but you shouldn't dance without sectech

outside blades 2nd dance

[atomic steeple]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wild narwhal]

even if other dance will be off cd for sectec? coulda swore in raid ln there were a few times I did this

[swift tinsel]

they should have roughly the same cooldown and if you're burning both dances in blades you shouldn't be sitting on two dance charges

[remote rapids]

and more or less if you are going to hold anything it should be holding dance a little bit for a SecTec? just if you make little mistakes here and there like 5s holding dance maybe

[swift tinsel]

the big goal is supercharging sectech while not bricking your blades

with dance/sectech being 20(~20 for sectech) and blades being 90 sec means they won't line up nicely each time

we're back to cooldowns having different cooldowns and having to awkardly try to line things up again

this time we don't have dust to fix it tho

[young harness]

if only blizz made blades 80 or 100 sec

thatd make too much sense

[swift tinsel]

or 30sec dance

with guaranteed sectech per dance

[hot seal]

Where can i find info about our crafts?

[swift tinsel]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[swift tinsel]

each guide should have a crafting section

[bronze terrace]

How do we play on the boss Lightblinded Vanguard? that one boss i did shit damage on.

[swift tinsel]

its a stinky fight

[warm marlin]

try not to pop cds until they group

well at least 2

[bronze terrace]

go M+ build? and jsut do aoe?

[warm marlin]

if you're playing trick you should be eviscerating on 2 target

[hazy breach]

I mean m+ build would just be swapping weaponmaster to potent powder

But yeah youlldo shit damage regardless of what you do

Sub sucks at low target cleave

[warm marlin]

my god it's making dividends already

[lilac stag]

Kush running it looks like.

[swift tinsel]

dm this to John Blizzard

if it worked for dk's being on bottom

[warm marlin]

ds is better on 1-2 target

quite a bit better on 2

[lunar hinge]

nvm found it lol

im just blind

[still gazelle]

Bountiful maps on 8+ all give the hero track reward right?

[warm marlin]

@hazy breach if you had to guess do u think it would be better to pot a 25% damage amp or bloodlust

[hazy breach]

25%

I dont think its remotely close

[warm marlin]

that's what i thought

fun fact, amp 1 and amp2 are exactly 2 mins apart

[lilac stag]

until the mark goes MIA

[warm marlin]

ok ye

[lilac stag]

WHEN DO WE SHUT YHE DISCORD DOWN!!??!

[warm marlin]

time to hold my orc racial for 1m45s

[zenith pasture]

Is it worth getting a second-tier piece if i already have one? Both will be champion track of course.

[charred rock]

https://klipy.com/gifs/thats-the-neat-part-you-dont-invincible

[covert saddle]

How does attack power even impact output these days?

[warm marlin]

pretty much just primary stat

[zenith pasture]

is wasting catalyst charge worth it for a champion track?

[hazy breach]

But yeah the vast majority of the gain of BL for us is just auto attack damage

In theory we get more sht procs, but most of those overcap anyway

[warm marlin]

i got pi the whole night and with guidon + bl it was kinda interesting

sectec came up mega fast

[hollow spear]

If that was the actual realz in imexile's chat, maybe there's hope for the ds mark?

[hazy breach]

@warm marlin

[warm marlin]

autos also did more damage for me on voracious than blades did

[hazy breach]

20s

[warm marlin]

man

thank god we got haste scaling amen

[inland sail]

Any way to sim the Quest cloak? Or just take the crit/mastery one?

[hazy breach]

You can just add them to your topgear if you really care

[inland sail]

Oh true, thank you

[lilac stag]

Soon to be 35% haste gamers auto attacking like our gunslinger brothers

[swift tinsel]

I’m gonna go for the mythical Very High Haste build

[young harness]

thought we BP on 2 targs?

[warm marlin]

as ds, yes. as trickster post tuning, no

[young harness]

only storm > bp on 3 + targs now?

[warm marlin]

you still storm at 2 targets outside dance

[pale fog]

Is there a sticky for crafts/craft roder or do we just send 259 farstriders mercy this week?

[hazy breach]

But a lot of the times you'd have potent powder specced anyway

And then you BP at 2 anyway

[warm marlin]

depending on how much mastery you have

[shrewd lantern]

wep+weak slot

[young harness]

during dance tho we do single target rotation on 2 targets?

[limber folio]

[warm marlin]

you can bp if you have enough mastery and potent powder talented to where it is worth it

if you're in raid st talents you eviscerate

[shrewd lantern]

lol the bane of sub's existence

2t cleave

[grim vessel]

whats the gearing / crests command?

[keen dome]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1476887002019270761/Midnight_s1_fixed.png

[grim vessel]

ty

[warm marlin]

i do not have much mastery

[grim vessel]

no real point in delves over 8, right?

[shrewd lantern]

they super simplfiied crests this expansion

[warm marlin]

that's with PP specced

[swift tinsel]

Not yet

[hazy breach]

Skill issue ig

[shrewd lantern]

level valeera up more

[swift tinsel]

Not til you hit journey lvl 4

[west tide]

chat is heroic vanguard hard or naw

how many pulls

[warm marlin]

i think it makes paladins kinda interesting

because your builder finisher rules keep swapping as it swaps between 2/3 target

obviously your damage is turbo ass but

[vernal granite]

is it only me, or did the aoe nerf fck sub?

[shrewd lantern]

it got nerfed but its still good

[verbal kelp]

Hello, is there an easier way to track the orbs/souls from the vessel of tortured souls trinket? having a hard time seeing them, also what would be a good way to track the proc, is that something that can be done in the blizz cooldown manager?

[pale fog]

Anyeone know if we craft 259 dagger this week or wait?

[hollow spear]

The best way of tracking I found was to unequip it and use a different trinket

[lilac stag]

Just to get them out of the way so you can instant do them when they matter. Nothing else to do this week

[verbal kelp]

fair haha

[shrewd lantern]

"but it sims high"

[hazy breach]

Guess why its not mentioned in the pins about the best passive trinket

[vernal granite]

a 230 ilvl ferla can overaoe u xD how is it still good

[lilac stag]

DE it for 6-8k gold

[jaunty heath]

you get tier gear for 1600 rating or how does it work?

[dawn heron]

how is ?? delve boss after valeeras nerf?

[lilac stag]

Wait WHAT?!?!

[crystal blaze]

meanwhile demolock

[lofty tapir]

They were threatening to shut down their disc 🤣

[crystal blaze]

dodging the nerf bat

[vast sequoia]

so with the deathstalker build posted in the faq for single target, do we actually include shiv in the rotation?

or its just there

[gloomy loom]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[vast sequoia]

that uh doesnt mention shiv, was just wondering why we go into those nodes

[warm marlin]

it looks cool wow

[lilac stag]

you can adjust utility

[warm marlin]

think of the enrage dispel value

[lilac stag]

think of the Danse value

[warm marlin]

no no, don't think of that

[lilac stag]

[shrewd lantern]

problem exists between keyboard and chair

[lilac stag]

Storm, Sectech, Backstab, Evis, Strike, Evis, Shiv, Evis

[shrewd lantern]

If a 230 feral is doing more on aoe than you that speaks more about yourself

than sub being "bad" at aoe.

[vernal granite]

graf ragebaiter n 1

[warm marlin]

:graf

[shrewd lantern]

if anything aoe is the thing sub's still good at

[young harness]

@warm marlin do i trust sim here? Emberwing shouldn’t be used even though its my only on use trink?

[lilac stag]

you sure about that?

[shrewd lantern]

well its not the st

thats sure as shit

[vernal granite]

sub got nerf the hell out graf stop being delus

[keen dome]

It's raid leading. That's our niche.

[warm marlin]

yes trust trust

you dont want to play a 2min on use anyway

icky

[lilac stag]

crit still good. 2 min trinkets suck

[hazy breach]

You probably also dont have the haste breakpoint

[lilac stag]

eventually Ryldd will stop being orc

[warm marlin]

if you get close to 700 haste the saptor paw might get worse

[hazy breach]

So getting +95

[warm marlin]

ye

[hazy breach]

is good

[shrewd lantern]

we got nerfed but its still good

[warm marlin]

nop

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah we lose to the good specs still

[warm marlin]

unless they add a 90s racial

or its real ass

[shrewd lantern]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=312411/bag-of-tricks

[lilac stag]

undead 90 second racial

WHEN!?!?

[warm marlin]

plus being an orc means i can flex my kill time knowledge with hold strats to truly maximize my pitiful amount of attack power

gotta think about the little things

[shrewd lantern]

why do i lowk feel velf is gonna be more burst

starting with s2

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Go take your meds

[shrewd lantern]

the reliable option is technically dwarf

though it seems you cant stoneform alot of the new dots this tier

[lilac stag]

nelf

[vast sequoia]

so just weave it in during shadow dance for danse macabre value?

[shrewd lantern]

nah hell no

you dont even backstab in dance anymore

[vast sequoia]

then why do we pick the shiv node

in single target

[lilac stag]

legit question, if you think this was a serious statement, wouldn’t it be in the FAQ

[blissful spindle]

Heyo - approach question for simming

Preface: Former CE raider, been deep in Classic land sims world for some time... getting back into things in Retail and curious about best practice approach with Raidbots sims - it's been awhile lol.

Back in the day, Dungeon Slice was kind of new/flawed, so we used custom encounter setups. And to my understanding, most fights today aren't pure ST. So I'm curious what the common approach is for semi-sweats. I'm not needing to go like... UBER MICRO OPTIMIZATION per boss, but it's bothering me not knowing and would like to be somewhat informed, heh.

I'm assuming there's a middle ground that's like Beastlord config or something that would be within a reasonable margin (but also not opposed to just managing two sets of gear).

[lean rover]

Anyone else listen to Mrs Rachel soundtrack while they raid

[lilac stag]

It’s a utility node. IT DOESN’T MATER WHAT YOU PICK.

[vale pine]

we don't use shiv

for dps

[vast sequoia]

dawg i just joined the discord i asked that halfway through a lfr

holy toxic

my bad i guess

[radiant swift]

how did that work with the delv on ?? difficulty? was it a quest and which delv was it?

[shrewd lantern]

shiv isnt even listed

[lilac stag]

10 minutes ago. #subtlety message

and you’re still asking. I’m just making sure you saw the answer

And apparently it worked

You’re welcome

[vast sequoia]

my bad i missed that message

[shrewd lantern]

"is the guy posting a scheming raccoon emoji being serious"

[lilac stag]

[stuck arrow]

If you want to sim a raid encounter, a custom encounter is likely more accurate.

But like. Starts to get a little silly.

Dungeon slice is a decent approximation of how you'll handle a varied target set.

If you want to sim just cleave or pure AoE, yes it's not accurate. But that's not really the point.

[lilac stag]

Wowhead talent build it is. @vale pine

[shrewd lantern]

no it aint

i just checked it

[lilac stag]

it was on the input

this morning

[lilac stag]

And when you input it, it was adding shiv to it in game

[vast sequoia]

ay given i'm still learning the spec i didn't even think through that sticker tbh

yeah it gave me the shiv with the import string, anyway ty for help yall

[shrewd lantern]

ds stinky anyway

[blissful spindle]

So back in the old world (WoD lol), I would just maintain two sets - one which was beastmaster (intermittent adds config), and another ST. And I would just do those independently. I'm not needing to be crazy sweaty, but my approach atm was going to be the same, but using ST for one and Dungeon Slice for other.

Unless there's a more logical/reasonable option like a custom config or something that would sit me somewhere in the middle for both and save the lift of doing each individually

(it's all just a relative reference regardless, but just want the standardized data to be informed and as useful as it can be)

[lilac stag]

@vast sequoia were mostly just bored here

Have fun with learning sub

[warm marlin]

for a spec like sub it doesn't matter as much. you swap one talent if there's some cleave and your secondaries don't really change, so not much to think about for gearing either

[shrewd lantern]

didnt assa have some smol minmax

where shiv cost less energy+generated only 1 pt to fall into DN range

[warm marlin]

i do a decent bit of sim work and just run st patchwerk for raid

this tier mastery gets a lot better in aoe, so you could consider an aoe patchwerk sim to see how much mastery it really wants you to get and take some middle ground depending on how you want to allocate damage

[blissful spindle]

Maybe I'll just do hectic add cleave and call it a day. Seems a reasonable balance between the two.

[warm marlin]

not a fan of hectic add cleave due to the movement stuff it has iirc

[formal pollen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd lantern]

This early in the tier ilvl just wins

[blissful spindle]

Ah, does have frequent movement- you're right.

[shrewd lantern]

in 90% of cases

[lilac stag]

I really think we’re just going to be get haste to x & stop. Put on non versa gear after that in whatever combo.

[blissful spindle]

Cleave add is 60% single add uptime

[hazy breach]

And like ryldd said, for sub specifically theres practically no talents that you would want to swap anyway

[stuck arrow]

Idk I feel like there's a lot of weirdness in stimulating adds & stuff. Usually not worth the effort.

[shrewd lantern]

hey you swap 1 talent

massive diff

[hazy breach]

And you already want mastery as a stat anyway, which is the main stat that gets better with aoe

[shrewd lantern]

[blissful spindle]

Yeah suppose that's true, so long as the source data is consistent - given the low variables for Sub

[hazy breach]

2 typically for keys as TFD is good

[warm marlin]

when i was playing havoc back in the day I did a lot more of different sims since all your secondaries changed

[lilac stag]

can’t wait for our heroic neck in 2 weeks from PvP

[warm marlin]

but sub doesnt care much

[shrewd lantern]

were you fiddling between AR and FS

[astral axle]

i love to stimulate adds

[warm marlin]

no it was df

[shrewd lantern]

ik they got diff haste points

[astral axle]

[stuck arrow]

Ultimately any add phase damage is going to really depend on your tank / how they're spawned / positioning anyway. So you'll never simulate that right.

[lilac stag]

Is there any way to simulate getting deathstalker mark fixed like reapers mark did?

[shrewd lantern]

add damage phase is a fancy way of saying

press sectech and coup

before the raid explodes it

[vast sequoia]

so why do we pick shiv

jk im just trolling

but genuine tho, anything worth crafting this week?

[shrewd lantern]

also in the guide

[oak maple]

Can someone smarter than me let me know what the plan is with crafting embelishments if i get 2x champ track weapons?

[warm marlin]

depends what u mean by fixed

supposedly realz was talking to exile today about fixing some of the bugs

so that might actually happen

[hazy breach]

Just like they fixed the s3 tierset

[lilac stag]

[verbal kelp]

hello, once we get to 80 hero crests, should we recraft dagger to 272? is it possible?

[hazy breach]

Probably not worth unless you dont plan on getting myth crests next week

[mint bobcat]

No save hero crests wait to craft mythic

[hollow spear]

I wouldn't mind playing ds if the mark wasn't so shit

[hazy breach]

As if you craft with myth next week the hc crests are completely wasted

[stuck arrow]

Maybe we just all start wearing red and pretending to be DKs and we'll get hot buffed tomorrow.

[verbal kelp]

ahh you are right...

[lilac stag]

Can’t wait to see what they break in the process

[verbal kelp]

thanks guys, you always know everything 😄

[hazy breach]

Well i doubt theyll fix the mark being shit

But i could see them fixing the mark being literally gone and unable to be applied

[warm marlin]

testing kaze replacement tonight in raid

looks good actually

[lilac stag]

my hope is the only way to fix it is not be shit to play with.

[hollow spear]

I wear nothing but red thongs so the joke's on you

[hazy breach]

Like getting darkest night parried shouldnt instantly brick your attempt at a boss

[lilac stag]

Just take the RP Loss

[hollow spear]

What addon is that?

[stuck arrow]

Why do you say that like it's a bad thing? 😉

[hollow spear]

It's great

[warm marlin]

you mean what was kaze or what's replacing it

[hollow spear]

The latter

[warm marlin]

nsrt appears to have combined the functionality of mrt and kaze

[hollow spear]

Dang

[shy scarab]

Oh man…..

[rugged shoal]

can anyone tell me if the sapling of dawnroot is sim bait since in logs it only contributes about .5% of my dps?

[mint bobcat]

What is the two target rotation like? Is it worth pressing black powder or do you just do the normal rotation?

[stuck arrow]

Two target rotation doesn't exist. Sub don't cleave.

[mint bobcat]

Ok that's what I thought, thank you.

[warm marlin]

storm outside dance!

at 2 target

[stuck arrow]

Yes, side from storm.

[narrow shadow]

Is used to be: AoE outside of Dance and Shadowstrike-BP at 3 targets during dance

[lilac stag]

Our dk used it last night and liked it.

[lucid jackal]

@warm marlin whats Ur vibe on rogue

[narrow shadow]

But not sure after the nerfs

[warm marlin]

sub st seems fine->good post tier

cooldowns need some thinking

i think paladins is just doomed

[verbal kelp]

One more question 😄 How do you track your trinket buffs and when it comes off cooldown? it doesnt seem like you can do it through the blizzard cooldown manager?

[hazy breach]

You cannot by default no

[warm marlin]

it didn't seem like burst would necessarily be good on alleria either

idk

[shrewd lantern]

dont most of the cdm mods let you

[hazy breach]

They do

[stuck arrow]

Need an addon like arc.

[warm marlin]

2x on beloren/MQD end boss!

[stuck arrow]

Arc definitely does.

[shrewd lantern]

not sure about buff duration

[lilac stag]

You get an addon for cdm or put an action bar near it and hide all but 1 button

If you’re using an on use that you can macro to blades you really don’t need to track it.

[lucid jackal]

No memes genuine thoughts on outlaw or sin in comparison

[warm marlin]

i think my opinion is always a bit biased by there only being a few people in my guild who consistently max their spec like i do

oh

[stuck arrow]

Unless it's like the puzzle box. 💤 Or other flat haste buffs.

[warm marlin]

idk i didnt play that shit bruh

outlaw on paladins is probably the move

[honest void]

for sure

[warm marlin]

but are you gonna int your crests for that

[shrewd lantern]

2 council bosses for outlaw

in a row

[warm marlin]

it doesnt seem good enough to commit to

assa idk

[honest void]

i think assa is close

[lucid jackal]

I think genuinely whatever rogue spec gets buffed on reset is what u play

[warm marlin]

sub/assa i think still has like a 95% chance of being better than outlaw

overall on hard bosses

[warm marlin]

ye kinda true

[lucid jackal]

I think if sin gets a 5-8% u just play it

But same goes for any of them

[warm marlin]

is it really competitive in st though

[lucid jackal]

What, sin?

With a 5-8 probs

[warm marlin]

oh its above sub on vorasius

[lucid jackal]

Sin aitn that bad

It really depends on getting cd in execute me thinks

[warm marlin]

too bad 5% is still less than sub gains with tier over it

[hazy breach]

Execute is really strong

As in sins execute

[warm marlin]

sub gets an 8% aura with tier cuh

itll take a lot to catch up

[lucid jackal]

Sub feels so fundamentally weak on these fights is my main concern

Mainly dragons/paladin

[snow birch]

Is it worth to ditch Trickster on mono ?

[warm marlin]

i was the best melee by far for our dragons kill

isnt it just not a melee fight

[lucid jackal]

On mythic they are always grounded

So it's perma 2 target cleave

[visual lark]

!bs

[warm marlin]

i know u said that

[narrow shadow]

I think sub for M+ something with cleave for raid

[warm marlin]

but will they actually let you stack them

[lucid jackal]

I think so

[warm marlin]

surely its not a perma spread cleave fight on all difficulties but mythic

that would be wack

[lucid jackal]

I mean stacking them makes the mechanics harder to deal with

[hard trellis]

anyone know what spec imexile has been playing. havent been able to watch much

[lucid jackal]

PROBABBLY SUB

caps

[hazy breach]

He has a roughly 1/3 split between each character

Between each spec on his characters*

And since its only normal+hc he just plays whatever that character was opted for

[hard trellis]

sub felt like ass and assa felt better so was just going to gonback in this time on assa

[hollow spear]

I think I simmed assa 2t vs sub 2t and assa didn't outperform, but maybe my gear was cooked

[hard trellis]

yea not sure.

just wanted to see what was up but yea makes sense

[hollow spear]

Assa's st is pretty cooked ngl

[lucid jackal]

sins st is entierly dependant on getting a CD In execute

[warm marlin]

I am biased, but I still think sub is just better at baseline with similar tuning than the other 2 and the tier cope is real. and post tier, assuming nothing changes, sub looks to be the best tuned

[vale pine]

sub on paladins is bench angle

[hard trellis]

thats my thoughtbas well

probly outlaw on paladins for me

aka bench

[hollow spear]

Based on logs, paladin is a "bench your rogue in general" angle

[mighty citrus]

for the vessel trinket, with how many stacks avg does it sim? i played it whole raid tonight and wasnt really able to catch the orbs

[lucid jackal]

atrophic is too good to bench

[hazy breach]

4 or so

[mighty citrus]

thanks

[hazy breach]

So yeah probably more than you have in practice on early progress

[tribal vortex]

Do you guys think that in normal /hc paladins it is better to play outlaw even next week where we have myth dagger? Or the mythic craft outperforms a champ/hero outlaw weapon ? (although heroic will not matter very soon I guess just asking for opinions cause I am not very familiar with outlaw

[warm marlin]

sub's also been the prog spec the literal entire time ive been mythic raiding (except mugzee) so idk very biased

[cursive hamlet]

i got way too excited during today and accidentally fully sent crests on dagger

[still basalt]

hi might be a stupid question, but do we always have to have full cp for sectec to instantly press it with dance? is it bad to dance->ss->sectec instead of dance->sectec?

[mighty citrus]

so if i cant get 4 avg over a fight, cause iam bad, i might take the championtrinket from the quest i guess, sim says 1% worse so yeah

[radiant swift]

which academy buff do we take?

[vale pine]

the main issue with the trinket seems how many effects/particles the raid has

some fights make it rly hard to notice the souls

[lucid jackal]

Broodtwister

Kyveza

Mugzee and Gallywix

[shrewd lantern]

why do we have like 400 champ crest cap this week

[hollow spear]

Idk, Kyveza was a toss up no

[lucid jackal]

Sub was just numerically worse than both sin and outlaw but it didn't matter

[warm marlin]

i started in tww2 bro

[hollow spear]

Amd Gally didn't matter

[vale pine]

mugzee was a sub angle tho

[warm marlin]

and i liked sub on gally more

[lucid jackal]

Gally died either way but sin was better

[vale pine]

on gally

[shrewd lantern]

didnt gally depend on when you killed it

[vale pine]

sub made more sense i think

[shrewd lantern]

early prog sub was better was it not

[vale pine]

but its whatever

[warm marlin]

we wiped more times to the adds than we did not having enough st

[hollow spear]

But blasting the adds at 7 min felt better as sub

[vale pine]

for mugzee, i think the no parry was very good

[lucid jackal]

Sin got buffed by the time most guilds got to gallywix

[vale pine]

even if sin was technically more st dps

[shrewd lantern]

i said early like

hof range

[honest void]

ngl as I was clearing raid today, I felt depressed

[tribal vortex]

Sin was kinda weird cause you had some specs like dev evo where he evaporates adds so you lose lots of dmg and caustic value

[warm marlin]

now this is crazy

[lucid jackal]

Sin got buffed before HOF was even a quarter full

[shrewd lantern]

was it really that soon

[lucid jackal]

YEs

[hazy breach]

Yea

[shrewd lantern]

though lou was notorious for

[hazy breach]

Same in nerubar

[shrewd lantern]

guilds OTing for hof

wasnt it

[lucid jackal]

Sin got buffed literally AS most guilds got to mugzee

[shrewd lantern]

[warm marlin]

sin was a god on mugzee

[lucid jackal]

So like, it was so perfect

[vale pine]

you think the raid wide no parry was worth less than the diffrence between sin and sub?

[warm marlin]

yes i do

[lucid jackal]

Sin was so broken on mugzee

[vale pine]

ahh

[lucid jackal]

U could kill caged adds, and u lusted in execute on that boss

and p1 damage didn't matter at all, u were always afk holding DPS

[vale pine]

maybe i overestimate the impact

[tribal vortex]

But in gally the whole point was adds no ? Boss dmg was kinda irrelevant or am I wrong ?

[lucid jackal]

It was like, so beyond perfect for sin

[shrewd lantern]

you just hoped you didnt get the goon cage

[spring basin]

Why does it always feel like sin sucks at the very beginning of a season and then they just buff it later

[shrewd lantern]

on you

[shrewd lantern]

sucks is strong wording

[vale pine]

maybe thats intentional

[shrewd lantern]

i dont even think it was bad week 1 lou

week 1 it felt like if the fight ended for 90s or 120s cds

[west tide]

i think i did sin on gally?

[spring basin]

It's not strong wording when it comes to Castle Nathria and sin, it was the worst spec and needed like a 30% aura buff to get it to do average dps LMAO

[west tide]

i did sub until mugzee gally

[shrewd lantern]

i played sin on heroic week and it felt competitive with sub idk

[west tide]

i swapped then

[spring basin]

Worst spec as in worst dps in the game

[lucid jackal]

I played sub on gally but sin was better

[shrewd lantern]

ok castle was asscheeks

[lucid jackal]

it also didn't really matter, rogue wasn't important on that fight

Either spec was fine

[shrewd lantern]

for melee period

i still think outlaw was better on sire

idk

[lucid jackal]

They did different things, but that wasn't a boss that needed rogue to "solve" a problem

U just pulled the boss and it died

[shrewd lantern]

especially because bugged bonespikes

[spring basin]

I miss bonespike

[shrewd lantern]

same

they gave us stepsis

for all 3 specs

for a brief period instead

[spring basin]

Arguably the worst cov ability for rogue lmao

[stuck arrow]

I think Denathrius was a sin fight. Hardest part was the dps check p3.

[neon escarp]

hey guys does using a slow offhand / sword instead of dagger affect procs of shadow techniques ?

[plush roost]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[shrewd lantern]

nah i need to pad with bladerush on p1 ghosts

[hazy breach]

Yes

[shrewd lantern]

assuming i dont lag

but like zoldyck has always been such a good prog talent

[hazy breach]

A lot of lower end guilds had the assa rogue de-enrage all the adds

[west tide]

i felt like kyveza was fs sub tho

[hazy breach]

With their aoe shiv

[warm marlin]

i dont think one was clearly a winner, they did similar things and for us, we wiped more to adds living/casts going off than we ever did not having enough st

[stuck arrow]

It was hard to even pad. So many specs just insta gibbed those ghosts.

[shrewd lantern]

aoe shiv felt like

how afk were your hunters

or druids

some of your shivs lined up

[warm marlin]

but also gally xd

[shrewd lantern]

not the WW asking for PI

to pad harder

[warm marlin]

like you just learned the p1 dance and then your bomb carriers figured out to how to live and the guy died

[tough coral]

Question: My AoE feels really inconsistent. Like sometimes Im hitting huge numbers and sometimes Im struggling. Is there a target count where I swap from Black Poweder to just my trickster Eviscerate cleave?

[warm marlin]

who cares what spec ur on

i think outlaw was fine on prog there too

[hazy breach]

Eviscerate doesnt cleave anymore

[tough coral]

Oh just Coup De Grace

[shrewd lantern]

gally if you get the 7min add set

with spatter

[warm marlin]

the 12s preramped flag into cb sectec right as they spawn!

[shrewd lantern]

thats strong too but honestly

the 7min kb dm spatter with your 2nd pot

was vile as shit

either way didnt make a difference because meme boss

[coral fiber]

Is there any way via cooldown manager to alert when coup de grace is up?

[shrewd lantern]

track evis

[coral fiber]

I'm more interested in the alert sounds

[shrewd lantern]

can you even do sounds with cdm

[mint portal]

does tricks of the trade with the pvp talent actually give a 15% damage boost for 1 hour (basically perm) or is the tooltip just wrong

that sounds broken as shit

[coral fiber]

You can do sound alerts with cdm, have it set up for sin when dots are pandemic

or cooldowns are up

[stuck arrow]

No just 15s

[shrewd lantern]

track when EB is 4 ig

[mint portal]

okay thought so lmao ty

[coral fiber]

You can't track stacks with cdm

[verbal kelp]

How do you cast the puzzle trinket during m+ and raids? is there a specific second in a pull timer where you start casting it? and then what about in the middle of a boss fight?

[coral fiber]

for alerts

[shrewd lantern]

well no other way then

[coral fiber]

womp, thanks bliz

[spare totem]

Any reason why this macro isn't working for my prepot?
#showtooltip
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Blades
/use Light's Potential
/use 13
/use 14

[shrewd lantern]

tracking evis will change the icon to coup when its ready

and 4 eb stacks=coup up

[coral fiber]

Yup, however I love sound alerts so I'm not looking at bars, was hoping to make it work

[shrewd lantern]

maybe arcui has something

but not base cdm

[fair phoenix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[spring basin]

Whenever I've asked this question no one responds bc people here dont care about pvp, could try the pvp channel, but responses can be slow there

[broken seal]

Guys i don't know if we have a topic for that but do we take mastery/haste and Darkmoon Sigil: Hunt for the Farstrider's Mercy craft ? Guess yes but just to be sure