its a feature
#subtlety
shrewd lantern
nocturne tendon
mb
shrewd lantern
nocturne tendon
i came from mop, im used to whole raids being full of features
honest void
surely we must
honest void
if they move more into the whole ethereal shadow clone thing we might have a rogue spec with actual visuals
honest void
when they hand ninja hand signs to the kit
maybe they'll also do away with backstab and just make gloomblade default
tribal blade
maybe they'll also do away with backstab and just make gloomblade default
the dream
shrewd lantern
i mean sub being a naruto wannabe
is just goofy
meanwhile kyveza has more actually nice visual abilities
honest void
i was memeing tbf
honest void
that's ff14's thing
tribal blade
it would be so easy and cool for them to copy paste kyveza animations on us
shrewd lantern
"secret technique" yeah this ability definitely doesnt sound fucking stupid
honest void
it would be so easy and cool for them to copy paste kyveza animations on us
ngl i can barely remember her animations
shrewd lantern
im still taking bets
on whether valeera is going to be better or worse than bran
so far her curios seem kind of shit
swift tinsel
I watched her kill herself on the bouncy barricades in Shadowguard delve
not high hopes
honest void
for a rogue she defo doesn't like to stealth at times
bleak night
her healing is significantly better than branns
honest void
speaking of trying my best, my rogue isn't even 240 
bleak night
and the curio where you get a buff every time she gathers is very strong
idk which one you'll use in that slot for the nemesis though
honest void
100% her healing is nuts
and unlike brann she isn't a terrorist and places them in dangerous places
honest void
idk which one you'll use in that slot for the nemesis though
Voidspire most likely
the dmg and healing buff after 20 secs of combat
man doing Ky'veza during preseason was fun
so if this one is easier than her it's an ez title
spiral bloom
My guild disbanded on kyveza, still disappointed
That was one of my favorite fights
zealous kiln
What are the rotation changes during heroism. The one where you still shadowstrike at full combo points
spiral bloom
I (think) the only change is if you have enough haste to get a second sectec during shadow blades absolutely make sure you make that happen
tribal blade
What are the rotation changes during heroism. The one where you still shadowstri...
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization (Trickster):
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
Note: Only during lust.
spiral bloom
Interesting
tribal blade
Interesting
it's 0.2% so you can ignore it if you want
that's literally margin of error sim values
bleak night
if you dont do it ur a bitch
tribal blade
that too
bleak night
bleak night
a bit
astral axle
if you dont do it ur a bitch
bleak night
you stay undead bc undead players are gigachads
rose sinew
correct
bleak night
its all very minor
tribal blade
undead rogue is the best kind of rogue
tribal blade
if i went back horde i would be undead for the vibes
half comet
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
half comet
!trinkets
grand summit
did anyone do the sims and see if we are going deathstalker now?
grizzled linden
Pretty sure that with the boost to Unseen Blades, Trickster will be even more viable (altough I would love Deathstalker to work)
warm marlin
did anyone do the sims and see if we are going deathstalker now?
very possible in pure st
trickster still ahead in any cleave
slender glade
ty
upbeat pollen
is there a way to macro Backstab to cast backstab out of stealth, and to use shadowstrike while in stealth?
frosty sinew
#showtooltip Shadowstrike
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab
upbeat pollen
you're the man
do we use black powder in 2target+ over evis? super new to sub just guessing
young heart
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tropic field
Anyone knows a good video guide on how to play sub? Im new to rogue and need a very noobfriendly guide 😂
regal current
undead rogues are great because that means my night elf gets to kill them a second time
i think sub is the easiest class in the entire game rn
😭
tropic field
Still doesnt help if i have no idea what im doing haha
regal current
i mean
short radish
!guide
short radish
check wowhead guide
tropic field
And AoE?
regal current
For aoe you swap black powder for evis
and shuriken storm for shadowstrike / backstab
unless youre at exactly 2 targets, then you use shadowstrike when available
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
You can find more macros and details in Guides like 
WoWhead or 
Icy Veins.
regal current
Use the first macro
tropic field
Okey, gonna start lvling in delve to practice the aoe
tropic field
Thanks
regal current
after that sec tech at the end, in like 4 seconds you hit shadow dance again
then your shadow dance only gets used just before sec tech
its pretty intuitive
regal current
gl 
tropic field
Thank you!
ember hound
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lost rampart
If they’re using the first macro, then wouldn’t SB be 4th in that opener?
grizzled linden
undead rogues are great because that means my night elf gets to kill them a seco...
Should be that if you die, you have to play Undead. We have to repopulate somehow
pearl swan
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
graceful rock
so why does DS prefer to use dance with no/low combo pts?
torn tide
unless youre at exactly 2 targets, then you use shadowstrike when available
oh so if its exactly 2 then its shadowstrike and bp if its up
cursive mirage
So why is it that only 1 target gets faze with shuriken storm
but you can tab target everything and apply faze with shadow strike
tribal blade
but you can tab target everything and apply faze with shadow strike
you're not guaranteed to apply fazed with shadow strike every time
it's only when the internal cd of unseen blade resets
you're better off just hitting your main target with strike instead of tab targeting
cursive mirage
Why would the aoe ability though only put unseen blade / faze on 1 target?
that just seems like a stupid design
tribal blade
both strike and storm fire off 1 unseenblade
narrow shadow
Also doesn't Shruiken apply fazed as well?
tribal blade
no secret technique does
tribal blade
the big thing is you guaranteed will have fazed on all targets during dance because of sectec
shrewd lantern
shuriken only fires off an unseen as of midnight
tribal blade
to not trigger
yeah but that was only really relevant with the double coup tier set
true palm
so raid and m+ specs the same or we got some new stuff 😄 ?
buoyant shale
How important is S&D for keys? Is it worth using an eviscerate on an aoe pack for it?
short radish
you should always have it up anyways when you press coup
buoyant shale
Hmm...I'm new to sub. I didn't realize you'd use coup outsede of st
I thought it was just shuriken/black powder
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.
golden birch
we still use BP at 2 targets ?
unkempt pumice
gup
buoyant shale
you can do the coup/blackpowder macro
There's no way to combine this with a key modifier macro is there? I've already got Evis/BP on the same macro with a modifier
short radish
duno
i dont do key modifiers
probably would be able to
coup is the same as evis
shrewd lantern
damn didnt realize we get a 10% pvp nerf too
well yeah its kind of gross in pvp rn
stuck lance
So how far apart are we guessing sub vs law is this tier?
buoyant shale
Hmm...so I guess the coup tracking just kind of sucks. I'd prefer it to jsut tell me when coup is ready instead of how many stacks of escalating I have
fleet acorn
So how far apart are we guessing sub vs law is this tier?
u see that light at the top is sub and the beginning of the stair at bottom is outlaw
stuck lance
I can play both but hearing rumors law is gonna be better
stuck lance
Ur not welcome here shoo
buoyant shale
People are like: Sub is mostly waiting for your cds to come back.
You mean like every 10sec? Try waiting 2min
fair wedge
So how far apart are we guessing sub vs law is this tier?
outlaw if ure a baller sub if u wanna turn ur brain off
azure thicket
the raid isn't great for outlaw but keys are probably gonna be good
distant sage
Just play whats more fun
azure thicket
ye prog law might be griefing though
tribal blade
People are like: Sub is mostly waiting for your cds to come back.
You mean like ...
dw sin is gonna get buffed
it happens every tier
keen dome
I think they'll buff BP.
tribal blade
I think they'll buff BP.
dude BP tuning feels like a meme at this point haha
keen dome
They're gonna buff it
tribal blade
they went overboard i feel
keen dome
I dunno. I feel it's weird with how the raid is built but also kinda w/e.
tribal blade
nerfing both BP and PP at the same time felt like overkill
keen dome
Yeah
keen dome
Hey, we'll be great at Voraius.
Just hit the big dinosaur. Bug duty can be other peoples job
And Imperator is ST except for the bit where it isn't.
Valegot and Ezzorak are a ST fight because we can't hit both at the same time anyway 
(Arms not long enough)
hollow spear
Flask simmed absolutely atrociously for me
tribal blade
(Arms not long enough)
i think sub will be mostly fine in raid
it's more M+ where sub has lost it's appeal
but we'll see what happens
keen dome
I think it'll be fine in both for most people.
It's the same as it always is. It's very whatever, even if the big AoE was funny
eager yoke
recommend crafting anything with spark now as comitting to sub?
steel zinc
i think sub will be mostly fine in raid
I expect more tuning as they said.
tribal blade
I expect more tuning as they said.
i just heard blizz said they're gonna be doing constant tuning
steel zinc
Lit all 3 rogue specs none of them are any good in any content rn. Compare this to other pure DPS specs
tribal blade
like once a week or something
steel zinc
Yeah
short radish
i just heard blizz said they're gonna be doing constant tuning
call me a doomer but i don't believe it
steel zinc
Also sub tier set is insane power gain
short radish
they can't say they're going to do constant tuning
not tune for 4 weeks (because waiting for raid understandably)
steel zinc
Like if your the rogue in the guild you should get tier asap
short radish
then pay 0 attention to assi and outlaw
tribal blade
call me a doomer but i don't believe it
haha i don't think they're that trustworthy either
short radish
ye blizzard has done nothing to give me any faith in them for tuning quickly
but hopefully im wrong
steel zinc
You need x aura buff and things change fast
tribal blade
they proved us wrong this beta cycle actually doing a lot of bug fixing
oh how much does our tier set give
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tribal blade
i would not put it past them to nerf our tier set
glacial eagle
Your by far the best tier set option of any class
p sure balance gets an even bigger boost
like 15%
steel zinc
p sure balance gets an even bigger boost
No got nerfed
glacial eagle
huh
tribal blade
well i feel slightly better now because we should be good then
steel zinc
Still balance 17% buff
tribal blade
if we gain that big a power bump
we'll see if it's enough
sub is also super down bad in ST right now because no guidon and no 4 piece
steel zinc
Tuning is still shit ngl all 3 rogue specs are not tuned well. A pure DPS class has to have one spec that is really good. Otherwise that whole class is kinda dead for a season.
keen steppe
which delve was a easy stealth delve ?
tribal blade
Tuning is still shit ngl all 3 rogue specs are not tuned well. A pure DPS class ...
sin will guaranteed get tuned high
at some point
it's never not happened in recent times
sinful trout
hm i cant copy the import string from the google doc
steel zinc
Yeah if sin stays this way you can't play it in raid. Some tanks do still more st
tribal blade
i dunno what they're doing
steel zinc
Also aoe of all tanks is pretty op
steel zinc
If tuning stays this way you won't see rogues on half the bosses in mythic prog
haughty mural
Assa battle with arms down there
west arch
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lucid jackal
I'm gonna remind people what I do every single wow tier. Don't use single target patchwork sims to evaluate how strong specs are
tribal blade
very true
lucid jackal
Remember how sub rogue was a bottom 3 dps spec on simcraft pre season
Remember how sub rogue was one of the strongest melee dps on that tier
(for prog ofc)
tribal blade
not sure if the same thing could happen again because sub lost a lot of burst
tribal blade
but very good point
lucid jackal
It can both be true that sub sucks, and that these charts don't mean anything
tribal blade
yeah the dooming is a bit premature
lucid jackal
Similar to most tiers, this isn't a tier of single target patchwork encounters
tribal blade
need to see it all in action
keen dome
The brutal number does not reveal anything
tribal blade
i think the big worry is they just nerfed sub's cleave by quite a bit
lucid jackal
It's still "the burst aoe rogue spec" and if a raid encounter asks u to do that, it's the best choice
tribal blade
hell yeah
keen dome
Dropping a big seccy on the Voidshaper add wave on Imperator
lucid jackal
All the rogue specs rn do something imo
Now will what they do matter in raid? Idk yet
Sin has execute, outlaw has st and cleave, sub has burst st and aoe
Or you know, just craft a sword because u saw a leaked photo of sims on a google sheet
Seems like a much more reasonable response to the news
vapid briar
Hello, I am sorry for stupid question but could somebody clarify for me the the apex optimization for trickster? Shall I always use shadowstrike to gain apex for the super charged non sectech finisher or is shuriken storm also ok?
alpine wraith
only strike because it does a lot of damage and while bl is up
on st and at most 3 targets
vapid briar
Ok, thank you kind sir
wheat cloak
walt is it not worth it in ST without lust?
steel zinc
So using a st patchwork chart is just like
Ofc it is but whole raid is cleave aoe and that sub is bad now at
haughty rose
is there a way to better see coupe procs? i don't want to watch my action bars all the time just for the proc
cold hinge
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
cold hinge
anyone have the link to the racial sims?
grim latch
vale pine
i mentioned it a while back
there seems to be a pattern of subtlety doing well because of burst damage
then falling off naturally as stuff dies faster (in raids)
or stuff survives longer (in m+)
this is never considered, while other specs and classes get buffs
olive canyon
i think it is the very high burst we have , which is magnified in early/lower tier settings due to adds not having health but it is also that sub is currently quite easy to say get 90% of its top end dps out of its easy rotation
vale pine
means blizz rly has a very bad judgement on a balance enviroment they control
dawn heron
correct
fallow nimbus
The right things
austere plank
fallow nimbus
For the future
hollow spear
I don't want to see any stupid questions related to minmax coming from you then
fallow nimbus
It is bm
vale pine
there is no rupture anymore on sub?
nope
mental kettle
I don't want to see any stupid questions related to minmax coming from you then
dw bro im gonna have 4 different shadowdance macros ❤️
fallow nimbus
Until guys parse green and ask what they do wrong on melee bm
molten citrus
is there a way to better see coupe procs? i don't want to watch my action bars a...
ya, with the CDM
hollow spear
Ofc it is but whole raid is cleave aoe and that sub is bad now at
Is it really sustained cleave aoe on most biased ? My impression was that our burst cleave was actually quite well suited.
calm cloud
btw were there any banns for the prof knowledge abuse?
hollow spear
No clue
dawn heron
no
eager yoke
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization (Trickster):
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
Note: Only during lust.
lusty narwhal
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tribal blade
btw were there any banns for the prof knowledge abuse?
they seriously need to ban over that
because it's insane
you have an enormous advantage in crafting with completely filled out trees
keen dome
I imagine they will get around to it
tribal blade
hopefully yeah
upbeat pollen
if i mess up, i dont save secret technique for shadow dance or so i/?
spring elm
For the future
Why couldn’t they make an engaging spec for the release of the expac? You don’t need to apologize for the billion dollar corporation
keen dome
Because doing too much at once isn't a smart idea when you want to see how it all plays out. They might be a billion dollar corporation, but they aren't able to see the future
Having a basic grasp of design helps you understand these things.
spring elm
All they did is remove stuff and did nothing since then 6 months ago
Again you don’t have to apologize for the billion dollar corporation
keen dome
I don't think you understand what apologize means as a word, but okay
sinful zephyr
I really like how the specc is feeling atm but I`m also looking forward to what they may add in the future
keen dome
Big same. It's a good starting point.
tropic field
Is there a macro that switches between backstab and shadow strike?
keen dome
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.
keen dome
Nope, but you can probably just make one with /cast backstab /cast shadowstrike, maybe a stance modifer? I personally just use the stance bar to automatically change it.
tropic field
You're not using shadowstrike outside of shadow dance?
fiery fog
#showtooltip Shadowstrike
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab
tropic field
Thank you!
keen dome
You're not using shadowstrike outside of shadow dance?
how would you use shadowstrike outside of shadow dance / stealth
tropic field
I dont know, tbh i havent read up on anything but thought there was a talent that could proc it
fiery fog
with vanish ofc
tropic field
But then i dont need shadowstrike on the regular bars?
keen dome
You don't because Backstab will become Shadowstrike when you dance / are in stealth
tropic field
Aah
keen dome
As it can only be cast when you are in stealth or in shadow dance.
tropic field
Only used 1 button rotation 😂
frigid ingot
Based on the patch do i still use Shuriken storm + BP in ShadowDance on 2+ mobs?
keen dome
I highly recommend having a quick read of your abilities and talents. It'll make a lot of it clearer 🙂
tropic field
Yeah will do that when i get home haha
frigid ingot
i know, but that is before knowing the wednesday nerf
and the buff on shadowstrike dmg
calm cloud
prob have to wait till release for irl testing
eager yoke
do we craft a dagger with spark or safer to wait till reset?
fiery fog
pretty sure you can just craft it since the embellishment will still be bis on oh
tribal blade
Based on the patch do i still use Shuriken storm + BP in ShadowDance on 2+ mobs?
you don't storm on 2 targets in dance, only outside dance
in dance you strike on 2 target
i'm not a numbers person but i factored the nerf to BP and buff to evis and it looks like it'll still be better to BP on 2 target with PP talented
hazy breach
Yep
Can't say for sure since we don't know how much they'll nerf bp by or how much they'll buff eviscerate
brisk onyx
brisk onyx
I doubt lol
lilac stag
it is
swift tinsel
And implacable makes it even more boring
narrow shadow
Is this any good? In theory it looks good-ish and I know I can sim it, but was wondering if there's any sentiment in general compared to other trinkets, since I won't be simming every single trinket and I noticed it's omitted in all sim lists like wowhead and blodmallet.
tribal blade
Can't say for sure since we don't know how much they'll nerf bp by or how much t...
lol yeah i saw your comment on whysper's video
onyx flame
Is this any good? In theory it looks good-ish and I know I can sim it, but was ...
Drinking is never good.
tribal blade
Is this any good? In theory it looks good-ish and I know I can sim it, but was ...
looks like a mid trink
rain hazel
drinking water is great actually
tribal blade
not terrible, not great
brisk onyx
Is this any good? In theory it looks good-ish and I know I can sim it, but was ...
Because it's not in the m+ loot list (this dungeon isn't in the s1 m+ ）
wet anvil
@vale pine u here?
vale pine
yes, whats up
wet anvil
i have question, do we press bp on 2 target if its a boss fight? like the 2 bosses in windrunner
vale pine
we do
pressing bp on 2+ gives both targets more damage
unless you don't care about damage on the 2nd target
hollow spear
I'm kinda annoyed that the warbanner sims so well
vale pine
in which case you just evis
hazy breach
Is this any good? In theory it looks good-ish and I know I can sim it, but was ...
Well that's the max ilvl you can possibly get as the dungeon is not in the season
wet anvil
ok thanks
narrow shadow
Well that's the max ilvl you can possibly get as the dungeon is not in the seaso...
Ah, true. Forgot the pool is different
That explains it
hollow spear
unless you don't care about damage on the 2nd target
The implication of questions like this is always padding the meters
sick jackal
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
not always
west arch
Dagger + belt first craft?
west arch
Ok
vale pine
any low stat budget slot is a good craft usually
meager creek
We just use sparks on dagger right ?
vale pine
you can
unless you want to play outlaw
there is still a risk of changes before mythic opens
but dagger is typically the best craft for rogue
(for assassiantion/subtlety)
can put hunt on the dagger
hollow spear
Surely this season outlaw will be our prog spec
meager creek
can put hunt on the dagger
Thanks! I am starting as sub this season.
wet anvil
and 2nd craft is the belt 100% on sub or another dagger? i will play only sub nothing else @vale pine
vale pine
belt is the best one long term
wet anvil
ok
vale pine
short term its still good
but your drops are very important
e.g. you get a good belt from heroic
might want to craft boots
eager yoke
@vale pine craft with spark now dagger?
vale pine
or bracers
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> craft with spark now dagger?
You can craft a dagger with sparks, it is low risk.
If you do put hunt on it
dagger in general are typically the best crafts because of weapon damage
HOWEVER
crafting early always comes with a risk
there will be another set of tuning changes before mythic opens
so might be worth to wait for these
calm cloud
inb4 getting double myth daggers first week
onyx flame
But isn‘t a dagger safe since you can use it even for outlaw as oh?
vale pine
the risk is:
- You get a mythic dagger drop
- Crafting items get nerfed/buffed
- Outlaw is the best spec, dagger in oh on outlaw is good but not outstanding
onyx flame
the risk being, outlaw performing much better?
You also have to ask yourself, even if outlaw outperforms…do you really want to play as a Temu pirate?
warm meadow
How would you get a mythic dagger drop? Delve vault?
Would you not just then have 2 mythic daggers
keen dome
By killing stuff on Mythic whihc you can't do until week 2 anyway
wind burrow
How would you get a mythic dagger drop? Delve vault?
Would you not just then hav...
in raid 2nd boss drops dagger
and the other raid drops also one
dreamrift
calm cloud
on the 17th they opening lfr/normal/Hero raids and m+ right?
or does m+ come with m raid
hazy breach
No m+
calm cloud
kk
eager yoke
in the scenario where you know your guild wont kill second boss mythic until week 2-3, is it still a good option to craft a dagger with spark and hunt embellsihment, and use it for progress, and then IF ever a mythic dagger drops, you can still use two daggers anyway?
calm cloud
but m0 goes down to daily reset ?
hazy breach
If you are asking what to craft, you should almost certainly be crafting a dagger
keen dome
M0 is meant to go do daily reset and will drop 1/6 Champ gear as I understand it, yeah.
narrow shadow
I don't think it will go champ
modest snow
it will be champ gear from m0 next week with daily lockout
keen dome
I guess we'll have to wait and see on Tuesday when our american and oceanic friends can beta test it for us.
tribal blade
i heard it'll be champ gear
verbal kelp
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization (Trickster):
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
Note: Only during lust.
calm cloud
other question, for the prey next week should we do the 4 normals first to get to rank 4 so we can do nightmare over hards as to not get 2 pinacle chests with veteran gear?
vale osprey
I sent dagger with hunt, we play two rogues this tier though. If we both send dagger craft and we get some daggers from 2nd myth boss then we're too blessed to be stressed anyway
vale osprey
Yeah, I meant if both my guilds rogues sent a dagger, not send a dagger for each of my hands
toxic carbon
so...we're all switching to outlaw?
hazy breach
Why would we
vale osprey
so...we're all switching to outlaw?
The outlaw Sims have been better before but the profile can still be stinker
drifting zinc
Why because a sim is 7k more??? Means nothing especially since we dont really know the profiles
hollow spear
imma lose my mind about these "outlaw?" questions
toxic carbon
Sorry for the bother
narrow shadow
The outlaw Sims have been better before but the profile can still be stinker
Sub has probably the worst profile now
hazy breach
narrow shadow
It's tier full ST or full AoE, no real prio/cleave, etc
no funnel either
Outlaw and Assa both have either more damage to prio mob and cleave to others and/or funnel
hollow spear
Pack it up, Eleem. Why do you even bother tc'ing for this worthless spec? 💀
hazy breach
Outlaw and Assa both have either more damage to prio mob and cleave to others an...
I mean slightly yeah
But you make it sound like sub does absolutely 0
Instead of just slightly less than if it was pure ST
narrow shadow
Mind you, I'm not saying Sub is bad, i'm just saying strictly talking about damage profile, it 's the worst of the 3
hazy breach
If you ignore the fact that its burst yeah
hollow spear
Assa won't be able to compete on add cleave in the raid if it's in bursts
narrow shadow
Raid is mostly spread cleave
hazy breach
Its not
narrow shadow
It would be nice if they reverted nimble flurry so we have low target cleave
I think that's a main pain point right now
Again, not dooming or anything, just saying where I think would be cool that they improved the spec
hazy breach
Not really
hollow spear
if they don't touch sectec, we will be better than sin on the fights
they'd have to increase add health by a lot to change that
swift hollow
Anyone knows how the new changes sim?
narrow shadow
I heard something like 6% ST increase and 15% AoE decrease
hazy breach
Like yeah if we ignore the main strenght of sub (the fact that its damage is bursty) its profile is worse than the others
narrow shadow
But not entirely sure
toxic carbon
ok ill delete
hollow spear
doesn't that sheet still say in big, fat, red letters that you're not supposed to share yet due to its "beta state"?
high birch
Was intending to craft a dagger next week, but have two vet tracks daggers now. Is it still the move to craft an offhand next week or should I just upgrade what I have to 250?
narrow shadow
doesn't that sheet still say in big, fat, red letters that you're not supposed t...
Only if you can read
hollow spear
myb
lilac stag
doesn't that sheet still say in big, fat, red letters that you're not supposed t...
Why you taking away all my fun?
hollow spear
Sorry, thought you were busy.
stone vessel
is crafting anything worth it now?
eager yoke
so far from what i understand, if you are committing to playing sub crafting a dagger with hunt is the move
shrewd lantern
Raid is mostly spread cleave
you know this would mean boomie and spriest if true
and not melee
calm cloud
is there anway to move the blizz dmg meter into the actual corner of the screen?
keen dome
is there anway to move the blizz dmg meter into the actual corner of the screen?
Not without using a skin like Details because the Blizz one has this obnoxious padding on it's sides 🙁
hollow spear
Does exporting and importing your arcUI work for you guys?
wicked joltBOT
Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.
short radish
Does exporting and importing your arcUI work for you guys?
no
if you figure out how to do it let me know
thanks
hollow spear
I wish
vale pine
Does exporting and importing your arcUI work for you guys?
addon import and export is a hassle -.-
hidden jasper
aoe blind is no longer a thing now right?
tribal blade
aoe blind is no longer a thing now right?
blizz really went out of their way in midnight to put the final nails in the coffin of rogue utility
we gained a marginally better shiv which is already not very useful to having no aoe cc yet again which is a huge loss in group content
short radish
we gained a marginally better shiv which is already not very useful to having no...
Oh shit I forgot about shiv as utility
tribal blade
i guess soothe is actually useful when there are enrages that will kill everyone (1st pull necrotic wake), but other classes also have soothe on top of their billion other utility
short radish
Woooo druid
tribal blade
Oh shit I forgot about shiv as utility
lol yeah it's niche use
stone vessel
should I enchant haste if it's too low or just mastery?
short radish
Just did world tour as druid and feral is kinda chilling
tribal blade
whereas aoe cc is kinda a mandatory staple for M+ and certain raid encounters
tribal blade
should I enchant haste if it's too low or just mastery?
you need ~684 haste
tribal blade
And wooo utility
yeah druid utility is nuts
keen dome
Just did world tour as druid and feral is kinda chilling
how many meows
stone vessel
you need ~684 haste
does berserker's rage count?
tribal blade
they have all the utility under the sun AND the best raid buff
short radish
how many meows
I had a weak aura to meow every time I ferocious bite
vale pine
aoe blind is no longer a thing now right?
exactly, got purged
stone vessel
the warrior ability?
Enchant Weapon - Berserker's Rage
tribal blade
oh
nah that doesn't count
also i don't think enchanting that is very useful
better to use mainstat and/or mast
probably x2 mainstat because then you can swap between specs easier if need be
keen dome
I had a weak aura to meow every time I ferocious bite
excellent
hollow spear
if you are not going to get to at least ~ 650 haste with your enchants and gems, don't bother
imo
my alt is too far and I'll commit to mastery until I get enough haste pieces
burnt panther
I had a bad opinion of the sub with all the talents they removed, but now that I'm level 90, I've really come to like it a lot; it feels good. I think I'd like one more button, just as a break.
hot seal
Honestly its no different thn other specs, being simple
would be cool to have an extra situation, like a proc or whatever
hot seal
its always the same tho
burnt panther
The last point of the apex is great, 10/10, it feels really good
tepid trellis
i kinda like having to keep track of my ShT stacks
tribal blade
i'd like to see more play around the apex, would be cool
hollow spear
Yeah. Still not sure I want them as a number or a bar (like cp)
shadow hamlet
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hollow spear
I think devlin had a neat display of sht in their weakaura
dry plank
well you kinda do with apex minmax
Only on BL right? With 0.2% gain, dunno m8 if it an optimization at all
hollow spear
Maybe I can emulate that in arcui
Afaik the new minmax is to force the second supercharged finisher
marble grotto
Trickster still the play for M+?
tribal blade
Only on BL right? With 0.2% gain, dunno m8 if it an optimization at all
it is a gain and stealthi gets to have more fun, win win 😉
hollow spear
(which happens most of the time automatically)
lilac stag
Yeah. Still not sure I want them as a number or a bar (like cp)
Bar ftw
hollow spear
wonder if I can overlay the cp and the sht bar, like some WA did
tribal blade
i think it should just naturally happen with sectec giving 4 sht right
or do the sht not come in fast enough
tribal blade
ahh ok
lilac stag
wonder if I can overlay the cp and the sht bar, like some WA did
You can’t exactly the same and what you can do it’s a mess imo.
tribal blade
nice pooling a thing
lilac stag
I just tossed the bard on top of CP
tribal blade
what's your cutoff before you stop using finishers before next dance
hollow spear
what's your cutoff before you stop using finishers before next dance
3-4 seconds for me
tribal blade
3-4 seconds for me
that's cutting it a bit close
maybe because i haven't actually had skyfury the entire of midnight yet
hollow spear
or let's say
depending on my resource situation
if it's looking good, I send until 3-4 s
if I am already "struggling", I stop earlier
tribal blade
fair enough
vale pine
Only on BL right? With 0.2% gain, dunno m8 if it an optimization at all
the updtaed min/max is a bit better, ill update !aa in a moment
its still low-ish impact but more than 0.2%
dry plank
Why you sent 3 sec before if you need than build full cp again, decision should be made on how much sht you have and dance cd I think
tribal blade
it's simpler than the other min max tbh
because it's only affecting 1 finisher
i'm not in game to test, if you don't proc apex on the finisher after sectec you're guaranteed to have 5CP on the strike at max cp to proc apex right
hollow spear
Pretty much
tribal blade
cool cool
hollow spear
4 from sectec and then you have 2 seconds to get another sht proc
Don't think if it's actually possible to not get a proc in that time frame, assuming you're at 0 going into your dance
tribal blade
given our attack speed in dance now it's a done deal
i'm gonna have to mess around with pooling
i wonder if pooling becomes a gain too because you're essentially playing into the apex
hollow spear
My feelycraft says yes
tribal blade
whenever i do go into dances with high sht stacks for whatever reason it feels like you're zooming
go into dances with no sht stacks and it feels like dogshit
hollow spear
The difference is probably lower than it feels like
But having at least a couple sht should be a gain
I'd imagine especially in these short add cleave situations
Farm sht on the boss, then spend hard on the add spawn
tight cipher
Hello o/
Is there ever a time we manually press Slice and Dice?
vale pine
nope
frigid prawn
if it's looking good, I send until 3-4 s
What does looking good mean in that situiation for u? 😄
stone vessel
what stats should I pick for crafted weapon? haste+mastery? I'm at 463 haste
lilac stag
Haste Mastery or Haste/Crit if you plan on playing other specs
cosmic oracle
Which potion do you guys use. The one that silences you or the normal pot?
lilac stag
Mainly outlaw
astral axle
Which potion do you guys use. The one that silences you or the normal pot?
the pacify potion is not worth it
cosmic oracle
Its already tilting me
hollow spear
What does looking good mean in that situiation for u? 😄
Enough sht and maybe not 0 energy
limber folio
calm cloud
i reach that dps just with my current gear and enchants
(don't have enchants rn cuz broke)
hollow spear
How much does frost get from its tier set?
calm cloud
limber folio
https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/316923898501529600/1482463961759...
pre-upgrades even?
calm cloud
only thing diffrent in the sim is that i don't have enchants on ingame
because im abroke af freshy
limber folio
changing some stuff around
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vqLFhYUKwvfRpeSFmYkqYE i mean it doesnt make sense but
tepid trellis
🤏
calm cloud
farmed herbs for like an hour yesterday and only got liek 23k
should have absued the knowledge points shit honestly
shy scarab
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vqLFhYUKwvfRpeSFmYkqYE i mean it doesnt m...
WauuuuuW
limber folio
shy scarab
(Feral)
limber folio
real
tepid trellis
i was told the otherday that if we need to stack devourer dh im one of the people that has to play it
limber folio
tulip light
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
shell willow
i was told the otherday that if we need to stack devourer dh im one of the peopl...
Damn
plush roost
i was told the otherday that if we need to stack devourer dh im one of the peopl...
Cope like me and say havoc will be better some fights
tepid trellis
id rather play devourer
tranquil pollen
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
flint parrot
iris does x4 damage from sim values
which is ~3.5% currently using it with gemstone and different gems
keen dome
at least devourer is still a purple class
prisma lark
Hey! I was wondering if we ignore lashe macabre rn. Both wowhead and icy-veins guides dont mention it being used. Do we want to activate it on either single target or aoe?
iron whale
plush forge
'
lyric iris
guys is early to craft a weapon, or just spend that gold
sharp peak
shy scarab
Might aswell wait till wednesday and craft a dagger with veteran crest if you havent crafted already
Unless you have spent all rhe veterancrest already
tepid trellis
Hey! I was wondering if we ignore lashe macabre rn. Both wowhead and icy-veins g...
just think of it as passive dmg from just playing right
lyric iris
veteran crest are able next week?
hybrid thorn
veteran crest are able next week?
M0 still gives veteran
lyric iris
M0 still gives veteran
I know, it's because you don't need them to craft the weapon currently.
That's why I asked about the crests.
shy scarab
U can craft with crest next week i think?
tepid trellis
macabre does decent dmg but not enough to force alot of unique spells and its just better than other options cuz the rest kinda sucks
lyric iris
U can craft with crest next week i think?
Sorry, I understood that I should craft with the veterans.
=/
prisma lark
macabre does decent dmg but not enough to force alot of unique spells and its ju...
Sure! Honestly i love to activate macabre as it gives something to think about during dance windows which is fun. Honestly i think ill continue to use it just for that 😄
tepid trellis
well we use the talent as there is nothing better
we just dont do a bunch of worse spells to keep proccing it
mystic juniper
Quick questions about the "Rogue Spreadsheet", What is the Difference on the trickster string? Is it 2%?
prisma lark
Thats it imma keep shuriken storming in st just to see it in my overall damage, i honestly love the talent wish they would buff it so we would always try to fit both cp generators during our windows
prisma lark
Shadow dance into shiv about to go hard trust
tidal meadow
is it worth crafting dagger this early or wait until best crest upgrade?
steady plover
subtely or outlaw for m+?
lucid jackal
subtely or outlaw for m+?
Either atp
steady plover
thx blizzard for perfect balance
torpid echo
Does anyone have a rough estimate of how much % the black powder clone bug is? Will it offset the aoe nerf?
hollow spear
Was there some copium storage explosion somewhere?
broken saffron
Soo. Why are they nerfing sub?
ornate patio
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique
Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm
This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call
Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.
spiral sierra
if i was doing 135k on 8+ pulls, how much realistically should i be doing after nerfs? like 110k?
broken saffron
Soo. Why are they nerfing sub?
Is the spec broken or something?
lucid jackal
Soo. Why are they nerfing sub?
They rebalanced the spec
the spec did really amazing aoe, especially burst
and then it did 0 ST
vale pine
Soo. Why are they nerfing sub?
They re-balance its damage
the single target is buffed
but the aoe/cleave is nerfed
eager yoke
say it fuu
vale pine
the reaosn burst damage is relevant is stuff dying fast
however, stuff does not die fast if you increase time
increase time, means look forward to later stages of m+
a low m+ key has mobs dying almost immidiatly
so burst is a huge part of the overall output
lets just put a number on it, 80%
now we go higher in key levels
and this 80% go town
it migth be 60% of the overall
then 40%
then 20% at some point
now, tuning is done as if it always is 80%
which is why you see subtlety usually played at the start of a season
but have it fall off significantly over time
the tuning will also give classes with more ramp up/sustained damage an edge
if you have ramp up
you might not be able to fully show your potential initially, because enemies die so fast
e.g. like its now in m0
blizz looks at data and thinks
"oh damn, we need to heavily buff this classes aoe"
the only way this can be counter acted is by frequent tuning, but tuning would also need to consider multiple content types
which it rarely does
manic swift
Text of the Day !
grim vessel
Copilot will pop up on your screen "make your life easier" then proceed to not be useful at all
Any gambles on whether sub or outlaw will be a better play for raid?
sweet moss
hey guyss, ive crafted dagger, are u guys gonna craft belt on reset?
vale pine
i will wait
and see what i get drop wise
then decide
you can craft a 2nd gear piece with crests without spark
if you want a 2nd embellishment for your first raid
broken saffron
They re-balance its damage
Still don't get it. Like sure it's doing amazing aoe. But is it too much? Like sure we have our windows. But then we just stand there.
dry plank
"oh damn, we need to heavily buff this classes aoe"
If they think like that it is so stupid 🙂
vale pine
I think the problem is, as always, data
lucid jackal
Still don't get it. Like sure it's doing amazing aoe. But is it too much? Like s...
Raids are usually solved by burst AoE
But also, for a lot of people, dealing dogshit ST isn't fun
So thats why it was "rebalanced" and not just nerfed
broken saffron
I think the problem is, as always, data
Data is the most problematic thing in the world. Even outside of games. Very few people see it and understand how to interpret it
broken saffron
But also, for a lot of people, dealing dogshit ST isn't fun
Hahaha well buff the ST without nerfing the aoe then
vale pine
they can use simulations, but going from public communication, usually don't
lilac stag
Hahaha well buff the ST without nerfing the aoe then
We’re not mages
lucid jackal
Hahaha well buff the ST without nerfing the aoe then
But the specs aoe was likst, insane, you couldn't have JUST buffed its ST
vale pine
this leaves their data pool towards internal tooling
and statistics based on in game performance
broken saffron
But the specs aoe was likst, insane, you couldn't have JUST buffed its ST
Yeah I do understand if the AOE is overtuned. Not if it's just good
regal current
oh so if its exactly 2 then its shadowstrike and bp if its up
Yeah
vale pine
those statistics is incomplete data, because:
- In m0, stuff just dies too fast
- There is no tier set
- Gear levels are low, classes might not hit their stat breakpoints to perform well
its just a very complicated space
lucid jackal
If you just buffed subs ST, you just have 2 rogue specs that serve 0 purpose this season, as of now, I'd say all 3 specs have a fairly good niche, that would have been ruined by just "making sub the best at everything"
vale pine
i don't mind this kind of tuning philosophy
gilded ferry
If you just buffed subs ST, you just have 2 rogue specs that serve 0 purpose thi...
that would be very blizzard though
vale pine
how does this apply to one dps spec classes
should they have similar problems, or are they allowed to be "good at everything"?
also what about other classes/specs which don't follow it
inner prairie
Their philosophy is everything within 10% of eachother is what they are always striving for apparently, though it rarely happens.
azure thicket
honestly seeing overall go down seems a little spooky but if you run an m0 with a tank who does diabolical pulls
the aoe was extremely sturdy even out of shadowblades
frigid prawn
!aa
wicked joltBOT
Apex talent optimization:
- Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
- Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
azure thicket
18% haste 40 something mast 20% crit with around 238-240 ilevel with b tier trinkets etc
hazy breach
Their philosophy is everything within 10% of eachother is what they are always s...
Idk it does most of the time
lucid jackal
^
split gyro
hazy breach
Raids generally are well balanced
inner prairie
Idk it does most of the time
Well based on the last picture ive seen for numbers with the changes, feral at the top with 120k and Ass like 85k. Thats a lot more than a 10% difference.
lucid jackal
So the upcoming raid isn't 10 single target patchwork no movement no adds bosses
So a ST patchwork sim isn't very useful for evaluating how good specs are in raid, right
lilac stag
assa going to show its strength in logs vs sims.
lucid jackal
This was last expac for example right
This was manaforge omega
Sub at the bottom, meanwhile sub was the goto prog spec, because it literally hard carried fight
Meanwhile Outlaw rogue was the literal bottom 2 DPS spec in the entire game, next to arms
Which on this graph, is middle of the pack
Using these "St patchwork sims" to evaluate how good specs are in an actual raid is just way too shortsighted
sharp ravine
Dmg Profile >>> ST sims
bleak night
The assa sims on that sheet are also intentionally not up to date so even your pure st sims gap isn't as wide as it seems
lilac stag
Instead use streamer tierlists using sims list to rank what you should play.
lucid jackal
I feel eveyr expac people need to relearn that ST patchwork sims are in fact, not the video game
bleak night
Instead use streamer tierlists using sims list to rank what you should play.
I only use tier lists that are highly ranked on the tier list tier list
thorny ridge
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
somber cedar
True it's a sin tier
junior ether
he got hacked
aint no way
open depot
«If they bleed, we can kill it». Only sin got a bleed hence why it is a sin tier
torn tide
where do they take their data for tunings from btw?
vale osprey
i dont feel like its gonna be the go to..
A lot of people in this discord throwing shit like this out and I can't wait for the only spec to be played to be sub
dry plank
where do they take their data for tunings from btw?
Internal tools with ingame data
torn tide
seen like five bots
they spread like the plague, they hack the person then the person sends out the hack and it goes on and on
dense geode
they spread like the plague, they hack the person then the person sends out the ...
fr
somber cedar
where do they take their data for tunings from btw?
Napkin math
open depot
where do they take their data for tunings from btw?
Provided by wowhead writers
torn tide
got destroyed
dense geode
A lot of people in this discord throwing shit like this out and I can't wait for...
Well see only reason I favor sub is because its extremely tanky compared to the other 2 specs
torn tide
He clicked an Elon link
the thing is that its super hard to get hacked by that too
lucid jackal
!ban @iron mulch
tribal vortex
why is sub tanky?
astral axle
tribal vortex
I feel worse on it than the other 2 cause I can't spam feint easily
vale osprey
Well see only reason I favor sub is because its extremely tanky compared to the ...
I'm just saying like, no flame, what are your credentials to be saying "it won't be a sub tier"? If you're giga raider I'll take back my questioning
astral axle
Purple Gary wasn't even purple, he was yellow name.
dense geode
wat sub is like the feint spam guy
dense geode
I'm just saying like, no flame, what are your credentials to be saying "it won't...
Idk if I say im a giga raider but i do play at a HOF level
tribal vortex
you don't have the energy outside dance
astral axle
vale pine
why is sub tanky?
it has some additional defensive talents in the tree
balance is also difficult if you include m+
dense geode
you don't have the energy outside dance
you dont need to spam backstab 24/7
astral axle
dam outside of dance is kinda whatever
tribal vortex
yeah but the others can spam their buttons and also press feint
dense geode
sin can def not do that outlaw sure, but again not as tank as sub due to lack of defensive nodes in spec tree
vale pine
discussions around the topic are just always difficult, because there are so many diffrent opinions based on diffrent epxectations and interests
astral axle
Like you wanna hold your max cps as you get close to your next dance anyway
tribal vortex
sin can def not do that outlaw sure, but again not as tank as sub due to lack of...
sin especially with DS was good but now FB is worse
vale pine
for m+ for example we had multiple seasons you woudl only play one spec and never considered alternatives
tho, not everyone is interessted in pushing keys
so this is most of the times not relevant in balance discussions
dense geode
sin especially with DS was good but now FB is worse
i dont rly see how youre saying youre able to do it as sin, but not as sub. I could see the argument back then when sub was CDR spec, but our dmg outside of dance is terrible so theres no need to spam
tribal vortex
I mean sin has 250 energy and sub 100 so it is easier, but yeah outside dance if you don't press buttons you can use it
I haven't pushed high with sub , mostly assa but with elusiveness and feint you are kinda unkillable
and also evasion giving 20% magic
astral axle
... but that damage outside of dance doesnt matter
torn tide
is it reasonable to just take power naps between dance cds
astral axle
You really just wanna prevent overcap and get to max cp for your next dance+sectech
torn tide
jk
dense geode
the DS evasion isnt small, but its pretty mid compared to what sub gets in their spec tree.
azure thicket
is there any dps loss for capping shadow techniques**
tribal vortex
I thought the good thing about sub was stacking Vers which is now gone
lilac stag
I mean sin has 250 energy and sub 100 so it is easier, but yeah outside dance if...
Good news is you don’t need to press buttons outside of dance. 
tribal vortex
I thought in m+ you kinda need to press some shuriken and bp
but not very proficient in m+ sub
dense geode
Yes vers good, but sub talents are just the strongest defensively out of all 3 specs
gilded ferry
Good news is you don’t need to press buttons outside of dance. <:pepe_chad:10229...
we down bad like that?
tribal vortex
we down bad like that?
for sure better than previous expansion
lilac stag
we down bad like that?
Highs and lows are great. I love it.
astral axle
You know what would tank your dps more than not sending storm and bp outside of dance?
dying
bleak night
source?
azure thicket
santa???
lilac stag
I love how people continually want to turn the best part of sub into assa/outlaw part 2
gilded ferry
Highs and lows are great. I love it.
it feels so bad being so starved outside of cds
vale pine
I love how people continually want to turn the best part of sub into assa/outlaw...
its fairly simple
something works well, so lets add it to my spec
lilac stag
Then play something else. The more the spec does outside of CDs, the less bursts/ dmg the spec does in CDs.
vale pine
so it can be better at that thing
lucid jackal
I love how people continually want to turn the best part of sub into assa/outlaw...
I want a high burst spec, good damage outside of burst, with high apm, with high healing, self sustain, utility, cleave, it to file my taxes
lilac stag
I want a high burst spec, good damage outside of burst, with high apm, with high...
Have you considered prot pali?
vale pine
so assassiantion?
astral axle
I want a high burst spec, good damage outside of burst, with high apm, with high...
intuitive gameplay
vale pine
😛
azure thicket
press shift+t for gouge, ctrl+e for cheap shoot induce wheelchair is f or aq depending
plush roost
I want a high burst spec, good damage outside of burst, with high apm, with high...
Fertile impregnate my wife, make me do the dishes....
lilac stag
Like holy fuck we have 3 different specs with 3 different profiles. If you don’t like one, try the others.
gilded ferry
why are you being serious right now
hazy breach
I mean sin has 250 energy and sub 100 so it is easier, but yeah outside dance if...
I mean the max isn't really relevant
gilded ferry
not the place for i!
bleak night
induce wheelchair
gilded ferry
we are here to complain buddy
hazy breach
Sub is wasting tons of energy during dance
gilded ferry
ot is for serious stuff
lilac stag
Tired of the shit takes from rerollers in here
hazy breach
And outside of dance you do no damage so skipping a backstab is whatever
hazy breach
All extrs energy is banked
Energetic anticipation
astral axle
and you can release over energy clones
plush roost
And we spend the banked energy on......
Gloomblade
tribal vortex
I mean the max isn't really relevant
it is because it can be at the start of the fight or you run away due to a mechanic or use tea etc.
astral axle
when you expend energy
hazy breach
it is because it can be at the start of the fight or you run away due to a mecha...
What
lilac stag
Energetic anticipation
Bottomless Tea
astral axle
dont you know humans only have a finite number of energy in their entire lives
tribal vortex
Having the ability to cap out 250 energy is better than 100 when you want to use "utility"
astral axle
and to spend it
lilac stag
it is because it can be at the start of the fight or you run away due to a mecha...
Ain’t no one is using tea as sub bruh
tribal vortex
like cheapshot or feint
astral axle
is waste
keen dome
And we spend the banked energy on......
Gloomblade
I wish
hazy breach
Having the ability to cap out 250 energy is better than 100 when you want to use...
Have you played sub
bleak night
any energy you overcap should start refilling your mugs of tea
astral axle
MugsTea?!
plush roost
Mugzee??!?!
hazy breach
Because sub practically does not have energy
astral axle
HOLY
keen dome
any energy you overcap should start refilling your mugs of tea
If you get enough, you should go super sayian. MAXIMUM ENERGY overload MODE
hazy breach
You have infinite energy during dance and outside of dance you can have infinite too if you just don't backstab
Which doesn't cost much dps
bleak night
If you get enough, you should go super sayian. MAXIMUM ENERGY overload MODE
saiyans dont drink tea
lilac stag
@tribal vortex #subtlety message
keen dome
saiyans dont drink tea
the cowards
tribal vortex
<@339040586642227211> https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/3169238985...
huh
Yeah what I said is it feels easier to spam faint with assa and outlaw then sub due to the energy cap
and also let's say you send a backstab and then you are like fuck I should have feinted
dense geode
sub is the easiest man 😭
plush roost
Having the ability to cap out 250 energy is better than 100 when you want to use...
Tbh if youre in a situation in which you dont have energy to feint youve messed up by not anticipating the situation.
Also u can just keep energy above 60 and psuedo-pool
tribal vortex
Yeah I agree