subtlety

[fleet wharf]

that's right, why think when you can just ss into evisc

or mut into envenom

[plush roost]

Outlaw isnt really like that anymore tbh

[vestal relic]

way easier now than in tww tbf

[plush roost]

It is kinda just ss dispatch sim

[tribal blade]

oh yeah for sure, but still

[fleet wharf]

wait so all 3 rogue specs are builder spender bot?

[plush roost]

Press secret between the techinques eyes every 20ish seconds

[tribal blade]

i should try it again

[plush roost]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[fleet wharf]

idk i played mostly outlaw in m0s today, it was alright and I had some fun as I got more used to all of the things I had to juggle

[lilac stag]

it’s a builder spender class.

[plush roost]

Only procs as outlaw now are opportunity procs and the apex you dont react to but track

[fleet wharf]

their apex is the bullet up their sleeves or something that gives you free bte procs right?

[plush roost]

And the thing about opportunity is you never reaaaalllly reacted to it

Yeah its the palmed bullets

[lyric bough]

245ilvl will do ready for raid next week

[dawn heron]

🫣

[gentle holly]

picking up rogue for this expac and maining sub, do i not need to worry about slice and dice?

[north schooner]

eviscerate applies it (cut to the chase passive in your spellbook)

[fleet wharf]

you get passives like this, so not really

it's evisc for sub like ninjarobot said

[gentle holly]

ahhh thanks i boosted so trying to get it figured out lol hadnt played rogue since BFA

[verbal kelp]

Hello people. Is sub viable for raiding or is outlaw way ahead?

[hollow spear]

Sub unplayable, it's 10% behind in st sims

Which are always a great indicator for raid performance

[vale pine]

XD

[short radish]

[hollow spear]

And there won't be a big balance patch next reset

[vale pine]

sub, sin and outlaw are viable in raid

how competitive each spec is

lets wait for tuning

[crystal bone]

how dare u use common sense

[graceful osprey]

It’s over for Sub, it’s all over

Just kidding but realistically it should be okay. Really we are just waiting for tuning

[shy scarab]

Tf u talking about? Frost mages simmed 500k more than arcane + fire last tier and no one played it

Same with outlaw for ST yet no one on top 50

[wispy hearth]

that was sarcasm slickz

[shy scarab]

Nah

Just reroll arms warrior

[wispy hearth]

I've seen enough

nerf arms

[glacial eagle]

bro with how much arms is picked on, soon it'll be arm, singular

[shy scarab]

Hahaha

So saaad

Arms my favorite specc but yet so bad

I miss argus arms

[hoary orchid]

guys a quick question, how many targets to decide between black powder and evisc?

[glacial eagle]

p sure it's just 2+

[brazen bear]

is this the tuning sub was hoping for?

[hoary orchid]

so 2 targets is enough for BP being better?

[glacial eagle]

well BP is literally 60% of Evis, so it will be better on 2 targets

[north schooner]

2 is enough yes

(you still coup over bp)

[hoary orchid]

yeah sounded too low, had to confirm. amazing BP

[hoary orchid]

yeah ty

tyvm

[crystal igloo]

just wanted to say thank you to all the people here, this place has been super helpful for a returner like me

[swift tinsel]

Wb king

[soft summit]

Asked this earlier but didn’t get a response.

what food are you guys using? On Wowhead they say calimari but it gives 59 haste and costs 200+ gold. Fel-kissed filets cost 2 gold to make and give the same haste... but do we even want haste? Impossibly royal roast gives 50 agi which should be >>> than haste. Am i missing something here?

[tribal blade]

https://youtu.be/66lrU_fv3SQ?si=i98Lyb3QT85sDaDQ&t=447

you heard it here first, pikaboo says sub rogue feels like the best rotation in the game

[hazy breach]

50 agility is the best yes

[soft summit]

Thanks!

[vale pine]

lol

[carmine portal]

It was gna be my spec of choice to alt outside of sub... that has changed of course 😭😭😭

[tribal blade]

granted the way he feels will change on a dime

[sour horizon]

Then Pika should vibe with outlaw!

[supple verge]

can cold blood shut up

[sour horizon]

No! Enjoy your frosty hand 24/7

[vale pine]

for pvp, right?

or does pika play pve now too

[supple verge]

also wheres tfd buff tracking smh

[sour horizon]

Pretty sure he only streams arena

[vale pine]

wasn't added so far

[tribal blade]

iseewhatyoudidthere

[tribal blade]

he's actually mostly a classic streamer now

i assume he hopped on that bandwagon because you get WAY more viewers than retail

[swift tinsel]

That was the pvp streamer pipeline

[tribal blade]

he's one of the top classic streamers

he was doing hardcore for a long time because that's kinda a hack for viewership

[wraith sphinx]

It also fits his personality, he's got a unique kind of energy for entertainment

[glass rock]

the commentary on what hes going to do while he was doing it in pvp was peak entertainment

[median nacelle]

he takes drugs to stay energized for the stream like most of the streamers streaming long hours do xD

[tribal blade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMCVdKnDLp4

[swift tinsel]

Insane edit

[tribal blade]

i love that clip

[glass rock]

bro was rapping while clapping enemys xD

[tribal blade]

yeah he's by far the best pvper to watch

[swift tinsel]

Idk if I’ve watched a pvp stream since like…Cata Reckful or Hoodrych lol

[tribal blade]

his super aggressive style of playing is so fun to watch

[tribal blade]

i don't watch regularly but i like to check it out from time to time

i think the level of play they're doing is more than RWF raiders i'm gonna be real

it's 2 different things, but i think the upper ranks of pvp is crazy intense

[carmine portal]

Ofc, raid mechanics are a timeline, players adapt vs players.

[tribal blade]

yeah exactly

[swift tinsel]

Top level PvP is probably more moment to moment decision making with really tight timing

And super variable

Your game sense has to be at a whole different level

[carmine portal]

Not to mention the understanding of every class/spec and combos you have to have

[swift tinsel]

Ye 100%

[tribal blade]

it's a lot

[swift tinsel]

And even personal playstyle awareness to a degree

Of who you’re playing against

[tribal blade]

plus to top it all them chasing pvp title makes M+ title look like kindergarten

[swift tinsel]

And most of them cut their teeth without any addons or auras to help bc they weren’t allowed in tournaments

At least from the generation I watched

[tribal blade]

yeah pikaboo plays with 0 addons

[carmine portal]

I think part of it is different tho, an M+ team will slam their head into the same key over and over to actually time it, in arenas you just Go Next™. V different mentally

[tribal blade]

pushing M+ is a marathon

you need a great deal of stamina for it

[supple verge]

what sound channel do the CDM audio alerts play through

[wraith sphinx]

In PvP you lose rating though, the glad push of trying to get 2.4k and then dropping to 2.1 is a ritual most go through

Imagine losing m+ rating

[tribal blade]

yeah that's the thing that makes it way harder

[tribal blade]

not sure but you can figure it out by turning off each channel then testing

not in game or i would check for you

[calm cloud]

i have sounds and music disabled and i can hear them

[tribal blade]

oh interesting

[supple verge]

yea seems like it plays over a seperate channel

but you cant control it

[tribal blade]

maybe their thinking is there's no reason to have them off

[supple verge]

its tied to master

[tribal blade]

if you didn't want to hear them you wouldn't set the alerts

[tribal blade]

sadly i don't like most of the cdm sounds

[calm cloud]

checked all soudns sliders outside and still can hear it

[tribal blade]

i like maybe 4-5 of them

[upbeat cradle]

I got the soul trinket and god damn are they hard to spot, may just use the void one just to not deal with that

[supple verge]

yea was just an iossue of them being too quiet relative to the other sound effects

[tribal blade]

you could just turn down the master?

maybe

or turn down all the other effects

[supple verge]

ya thats what i ended up doing

[calm cloud]

turns everything down so its the same levels just quiter

[supple verge]

jkust turned down everything else and turned up master slioghtly to b alance

[tribal blade]

hrm awkward

[supple verge]

yea it is awkward

[tribal blade]

seems like the cdm sounds should have their own channel

would make sense

[calm cloud]

honestly not sure if i preff the spell alert over the buff

[supple verge]

ik dont think it matters that much for sub

but i used audio cues heavily for outlaw

and was just explkoring the system

[tribal blade]

i really like audio cues

[supple verge]

when the spec is more on rails its whatyever

[tribal blade]

i'm sad you can't set them to coup

[supple verge]

you get used to the flow

yea i was just trying that

having it go off for every stack of escalating is pretty wack

[tribal blade]

the entire coup thing in the cdm is so weird

[calm cloud]

btw does hold and cast not work for instant spells?

[tribal blade]

it's so strangely done

[calm cloud]

have it enabled but if i just stand on a dummy and hold 1 (backstab) its only gets casts once and then never again

[tribal blade]

had no idea this was a thing tbh

[calm cloud]

are the PTR sub balance changes just spell error fixes?

[swift tinsel]

that's for 12.0.5

not next tuesday

[raven mural]

anyone know why the 233 doesnt upgrade to 237 for free?

[tribal vortex]

you need two

and then the third one is free

same with trinkets and fingers

[fiery fog]

wait until the ground is darker and everything is happening at the same time so you cant see the ( ) anymore xd

[torpid echo]

Só I understand that haste lowers Sec Tech CD but why would we need that certain % of haste? To have all SD line up with it?

[latent finch]

The dance duration scales with haste now. You can get more gcds in it with more haste

[calm cloud]

thats why i asked about the ptr sub balance changes not the once for next week

[swift tinsel]

must not need balance changes on ptr

[torpid echo]

Thanks!

[dense geode]

We are not warriors

Dual wielders dont get free upgrades like that

[graceful osprey]

Yep, sub is fixed now, certified S tier dps in raid and M+ now

[untold fjord]

good to know

and the play style is pretty cool bow.

now.

[eager patrol]

do I get it right that we actually use black powder?

im used to just spamming evis in aoe cause of nimble flurry

[alpine wraith]

evis does not work with nimble anymore

so yea you kinda inting

[untold fjord]

But outlaw seen to be on top, by the simcraft logs

[alpine wraith]

only coup does

[eager patrol]

bruh

[alpine wraith]

well you can try as outlaw maybe you do better

no way to know until we actually hit the raid

[arctic abyss]

soon as shadow blades falls off i go from 1 to last in long fights 😛 but i guess thats as expected

[eager patrol]

I considered trying outlaw but ive been sub for 10 years

but idk the 3 buttons gone from midnight seem boring af so far

[alpine wraith]

yea now most of the skill is on using your few buttons

[elfin pendant]

Im always top dps in my groups have you tried getting gud?

[arctic abyss]

hmm u know i haven't thought about that maybe I should try.

grants yes most time im at top... but then an undegeared mage pops in and blows me outta the water, ha

[tribal storm]

Do you have a way to have find weakness visible in the cooldown manager?

[silver solstice]

For PVP, if I'm not going to reach the 18-20% breakpoint to get an extra global during dance, is it acceptable to just have below 3% haste?

[austere canopy]

Are we cooked in m+ all we bring is dam

[dreamy badger]

been like that since forever

[gilded lodge]

And speed shroud

[idle flint]

Hello.

[silver solstice]

And group sneaky sneak!
Hasn't this been the case literally forever though? AOE sneak and non-boss stunlock is all we have ever offered outside of damage

[gilded lodge]

And group coolness factor

[silver solstice]

Its the same thing as Ret paladin, the perk is we are melee dps that is less likely to die than other melee dps.

[austere canopy]

Dunno I’m new to rogue

[sullen hare]

Speed shroud is nice but no one even knows it exists anymore because of all the sentries blizzard placed in dungeons to prevent stealth skips

[austere canopy]

I’m having fun but it was a genuine question because I like the class fantasy so I’m trying something new after ret since 2011

[sullen hare]

We bring a kick, damage, single target stuns, and a short CD single target blind. Also never underestimate the value of 1 hour tricks of the trade. If you have a tank with threat issues it's simply not your problem

[austere canopy]

Yeah I noticed you can snipe mobs in m0with perma tricks before other dps can

[sonic cipher]

hey guys how is sub feelin in m0?

[old spindle]

i r outlaw main, i use shadow blades on bosses only. with that said pretty frigging solid honestly

[fierce wigeon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[flat beacon]

Also don't forget about Feint and Cloak of Shadows. I haven't been diving deep into Midnight encounters yet but previously you soaking stuff could help a lot in certain encounters

[lilac stag]

We lost ranged AOE and the shroud skips are a thing of the past.

[lilac stag]

If tuning isn’t there, cooked

[calm cloud]

why are shroud skips a thing of the past?

[lilac stag]

Routes are more direct to make tanking easier.

Every pack has truesight

[calm cloud]

is that just a hyperbole or a actualy m+ change?

[lean rover]

I know its been discussed 4 million times, I am only using Shadowstrike during SD until AA procs, once AA procs i can use evis correct?

[lilac stag]

If it’s been discussed 4 million times, did you search for it?

[hollow spear]

That's been reality for a good while now

[lilac stag]

asking for a friend.

[calm cloud]

last time i played was WoD so not uptodate on all the m+ changes

sadge then, liked shorud skips and doing them nonstop in m0 rn

[hollow spear]

There are some shroud skips, but they're pretty low value. Definitely not a big reason to bring a rogue.

[lilac stag]

shround was legit just a speed boost last season, and now we really can’t even take that talent.

[calm cloud]

in den of nalorak and maisara caverns they kinda big imo

you can skip all bears to last boss in nalroak and the big bridge before last boss in maisara

[dense geode]

those bears ahve eyes

[calm cloud]

no

in m0

[dense geode]

The snow bears?

the amai bears?

or the regular bears..

[calm cloud]

amani bears before endboss in den

on the path to the endboss, bridge esque thing

[dense geode]

yea you could but rather skip all the casters before that lol

[lilac stag]

m0 means nothing. Routing will get done around pull count and efficiency. routes won’t get planned around a rogue, unless you’re running with a consistent group.

[calm cloud]

on that bridge i sually just do the first 3 pack and then run to the boss

[lilac stag]

and most people worry about using LfG

[calm cloud]

skipping everything else

[amber oak]

do we honor the apex proc on AOE or we double dump with BP

[calm cloud]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

[lilac stag]

You can use the AA proc for priority target dmg. That’s about it.

[calm cloud]

doesnt say 3 or less targets in !aa i guess

[hollow spear]

Our tc should have stayed out of the kitchen

[calm cloud]

wouldn't base sub rota be way to boring without

[lilac stag]

It’ll change again. Season hasn’t even started yet.

[fierce kite]

Hey guys,

I wanted to know what you think will be the best potion for M+?

Primary stat?
Primary stat ++ but with the silence zones?
Secondary stat?

I feel like the primary stat with the silence zones might be stronger, because there’s almost a 100 agility difference between the two and that seems huge to me! But is it actually okay to use in practice?

Does the secondary stat potion really have a meaningful impact?

[dense geode]

just primary stat

if you miss those globals huge dps loss with silence zones

[tame notch]

Hey guys, what do we want to craft with sparks? Dagger and?

[alpine wraith]

you can try the silence potion if you can move when it spawns well

but sometimes it can be a pita

dagger and then a leather piece where we have strong value

you can craft the tier offset you are not using like pants

or go for belt/wrists in case you got lucky on got lots of M gear in the big budget places

[tame notch]

I see thanks

[manic ivy]

hi guys, quick question, this works with the Erratic (void) trinket in every dungeon? or just in Voidstorm

[alpine wraith]

the points make the trinket stronger

but the trinket itself says how

[manic ivy]

yea just saw below

tyvm

[calm cloud]

do we know if and when the trinket works propperly in the raidbots sim?

[chilly talon]

Wait, we only do this during lust now?

[twin kettle]

hi guys, first dance wants me 6 sec out of combat, but in m0 there are no 6 sec. what to skill?

[lilac stag]

you still skill TFD

And learn how to get out of combat

[twin kettle]

kk

[lilac stag]

Easier in some keys than others

[left ledge]

sometimes you also just take the L

it can take forever to start the countdown

and on some boss pulls even while you're still in stealth it just auto cancels the countdown

[north schooner]

@hazy breach can you reword this part since it confuses people? #subtlety-faq message Something like "Ignore this optimisation in AoE/3+ targets, and use Shuriken Storm instead" would be more clear

[rapid violet]

does shadowmeld -> stealth give the energy benefits of Master of Shadows? Seems like it doesn't when i'm testing it on dummies

[hazy breach]

Well that implies that you do the optimization just with storm instead

But either way im changing that later today

[north schooner]

thanks

[plush roost]

In m+ where combat drops are less frequent and pulls last longer you could opt for 1x finality instead of tfd. Makes your opener worse however.

[rapid violet]

anyone know about this?

[pulsar hemlock]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

[pulsar hemlock]

So we are only apexmaxxing during lust now?

[fierce kite]

Ok I understand.
But vs increase secondary stat? Which is better? Potential light or the other?

[pulsar hemlock]

Or was that always the case and I am just dumb

[dense geode]

primary is always better early seasons

usually

[limpid sage]

No it’s a new thing

But it’s only 0.2% so not worth using any mental load on imo

[lilac stag]

Wait til people start figuring out the priority dmg use.

[limpid sage]

Spender or finisher in lust you pretty much can’t go wrong it seems

Unless you already have aa

[north schooner]

@swift tinsel the 🐐 is back https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/rogue-feedback-thread-for-patch-1205/2271246

he's only 5 posts from 25k too

[swift tinsel]

holy shit he's been consolidating his power into one big post

just the break I needed from transcribing

[plush roost]

I mean surprisingly not wild crazy mafic

A lot of these are just sensible requests

[swift tinsel]

"I’d say it would feel better if we had a 5% nerf inside Shado1w Dance for a 15~20% buff OUTSIDE of shadow dance." one of the replies has an...interesting idea

and yeah his takes were pretty tame

this time

[plush roost]

Lingering shadows.... gloomblade.....

1million gloomblade crits 800k evis crits...."

[warm marlin]

He ain’t wrong though df was so much fun

Maybe not sub

But the game was fun in s3 and s1-2 prior to the Aug incident

[plush roost]

I fkn love zimbita dude

[crystal bone]

holy i need that emote

[iron tartan]

Is it Arcanoweave Lining and Darkmoon hunt we use for embellisments?

[west arch]

Which two first crafting recipes do you recommend making: a cape and bracers?

[sweet moss]

Yo lads, what peice are we crafting

or not crafting yet

[lusty acorn]

٨٠٪؜ said craft dagger

https://tenor.com/view/freaky-ahh-cat-gif-18079483674604869316

[pallid jackal]

with current build trickster, do we go into cds with combo points or not? what was the preferred?

[hollow briar]

what do they mean in the FAQ when they say: "Cast to spend combo points when you have 6 or more." like utilize the passive?

[sullen hare]

6 combo points

[jolly wave]

As an ex feral druid he is my goat

[hollow spear]

6 roll the bones buffs

[tropic pier]

is there a way to override the drum of renewed bonds to a different stat in simc

maybe @vale pine knows?

i dont wanna fly around and check what stat is best im assuming mastery but id rather just sim quick and check

[vale pine]

don't think there is a sim condition for it sadly

you can usually find those here

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/ExpansionOptions

[iron ibex]

@fur With the recent Tuning post is that added Dark Shadow to the 10% exciting one??

[tough solar]

If Secret technique just came off cd and i dont have shadow dance for another 6s, do i wait for shadow dance to use it or just send it?

[young harness]

wait for it but sec tech should always be up with dance unless u did something wrong

[tribal vortex]

It was only a spelling correction if we are talking about the same

[iron ibex]

yeah i notice now lolol

[hardy snow]

Coup apex damage in game delay 0.5s?

[calm cloud]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[calm cloud]

0.2

[vale pine]

coup has 0.2 sec

and your first cast in dance typically has 0.1 sec, especially if its strike

[obtuse orbit]

whats the command for the addon recommendations

[vale pine]

we don't have a command for it

i can maybe add one

[calm cloud]

addons for uis?

[obtuse orbit]

oh thought there was something ppl were doing the other day for UI help

[vale pine]

#outlaw has a !ui command

with some suggestions

[obtuse orbit]

maybe thats where i saw it

my b

[vale pine]

all fine

[calm cloud]

seem outdated though in outlaw? shows wangbar still when arcui can fully replace wangbar

but you should prob try few out and see which work best for you imo

[swift tinsel]

What about people not using arcui

[obtuse orbit]

have you tried twintops?

that shit is niiiice

[calm cloud]

haven't heard of that no

[obtuse orbit]

it was the recommended for feral

[calm cloud]

but the design gives me healbot vibes

[vale pine]

its preference

some use arc

[swift tinsel]

Also Wangbar is maintained by one of the guys in Outlaw

[vale pine]

some use better cooldown manager

[final hound]

Hey guys, Can i log my rotation on dummies with warcraft logs?

[vale pine]

some use the default cooldown manager and sensai bar

[obtuse orbit]

ahhh, i thought wangbar was a universal one but for some reason only works on rogue

[vale pine]

there is no "best"

i found every addon i tried so far had some issues

XD

[swift tinsel]

By rogue for rogue

[vale pine]

which isn't ideal

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I’ve hopped around so damn many trying them out

[calm cloud]

used it at first, i think he the dev wants to make it universal but only has it for rogues rn

[swift tinsel]

Only to find bugs that make me want to keep hopping around

[obtuse orbit]

bahahah didnt even notice that part

i love it tho its nice

i gotta set up and show my new UI to the new guild in a couple days so its time to play around with stuff

[swift tinsel]

Initially it was to beat the cp delay that Sensei had

[vale pine]

wangbar is from the community, its nice to highlight community creations

[swift tinsel]

And just make a good cp/energy addon

[vale pine]

i rly disslike sensei bar in terms of functionality and visuals

[obtuse orbit]

yea i swapped off BCDM cuz i was having delay

[swift tinsel]

Same

[obtuse orbit]

but wang seems nice

bar*

[swift tinsel]

Sensei was just the first one a lot of people came across

In prepatch, alpha etc

Bc it was one of the only ones that actually worked lol

[silver solstice]

Is Glyph of detection not a thing anymore???

[calm cloud]

im just using arc for all atm

[obtuse orbit]

no delay?

[calm cloud]

in m0 sofar not

[obtuse orbit]

i like arc over bcdm i feel like its way more customizable

[calm cloud]

in open world yeah a bit but the whole game seems to lagg

[obtuse orbit]

its those abundances

they fuuck

[calm cloud]

will have to wait till raids are open to see performance

Abundance got nerfed quite hard and the lagg was reduced

[obtuse orbit]

im hoping if its cool in 0s its cool in raid since its still instanced

[calm cloud]

tbf i have a somewhat weak pc build so i'm trying to reduce numbers of addons

[bleak night]

hell of a typo

[vale pine]

fixed

[swift tinsel]

sellout

jk jk

[bleak night]

its ok i hate sensei too

[calm cloud]

@vale pine when you do the wowhead guides, can you create the tables no your own or are they preset ?

[swift tinsel]

current EUI iteration, still getting things ironed out

[vale pine]

It depends, the best in slot table is pre defined.
But i have some freedom to change things, would need to ask if adding specific things is allowed given the instructions of the page

but if you want to ask something specific, just ask

[calm cloud]

Was wondering if the source could be split into 2 columns, Raid/dungeon and then boss name for a faster overview

[vale pine]

there will be a season update on wowhead with some new pages, including one for m+

which will include

moment

ill show you

a list of items from specific dungeons

i just noticed i need to fix something as its currently only showing one item

when it should show up to 3 ^^

the list above from the gear page should have the boss names in it

wowhead decided to scrap the 2 tabs for "from raid" and "drom m+" in favor of the current layout

[calm cloud]

you mean the one i posted?

or your m+ gear collection list?

[vale pine]

yes both

essentially the "bis" gear list will be in the gear secion

and a "good items from m+" list in the m+ section, which will release soon-ish

[calm cloud]

its shows the boss names of raids (not the raid unless hovred) and for the m+ just the dungeon name no boss name even if hovored

[vale pine]

m+ you can't decide on dungeons

[solemn isle]

you can copy paste the drum text and change the bonus_id to begin with 13183, 13184, 13185, and 13186

the string is different per ilvl but the bonus_id determines the buff

[eager yoke]

this a buff in upcoming patch or just a tooltip fix?

Subtlety
Talents (1)
Dark Shadow Shadow Dance increases all ability damage by 5%, and Shadowstrike and ShruikenShuriken Storm damage by an additional 5%.
Rank 1: Shadow Dance increases all ability damage by 5%, and Shadowstrike and ShruikenShuriken Storm damage by an additional 5%.
Rank 2: Shadow Dance increases all ability damage by 10%, and Shadowstrike and ShruikenShuriken Storm damage by an additional 10%.

[swift tinsel]

tooltip fix

"Shruiken" getting correctly spelled

[vale pine]

alright, fixed it ^^

[astral axle]

"can you fix the speeling on that tooltip?"
"oh, shru-i-ken"

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-gif-15058124

[shell relic]

@vale pine can you put de link?

[vale pine]

not released yet

soon™

[shell relic]

ou ahhahaha

[vale pine]

i just leaked it because someone asked for m+ item lists

[shell relic]

that a good leaked

[vale pine]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[vale pine]

i could look into doing sth like this again

for mythic release

(because m+ does not open before that)

(maybe better visuals, the above isn't bad but looks not that professional)

[west tide]

this was nice

[spring coral]

Hi! Anyone can help me with this?
Wowhead says that early crafts will be nice to be de dagger+ belt. But it really makes sense due to the fact that Belt is one of the champio "gifted" pieces and the very first crafts will be same track in the best of cases due to crests and sparks issue the first day?? Wouldnt be better to craft dagger + boots??

[vale pine]

you realistically will just use any slot you miss

it does not matter

your gear currently is also limited

you will replace almost everything next week or the week after

[foggy estuary]

Are we supposed to get 2 sparks this week? I want to craft belt or ring this week but in my bags i only have one, wheras in my currency tab it shows 2. 👀

[vale pine]

we get one with reset

so we only have one craft this week

means, you can ONLY craft a dagger

[shell relic]

What should my first crafting and with which embellishment?

[vale pine]

but can decide what to craft AFTER you finished the raid

or

[shell relic]

dagger?

[vale pine]

craft without spark

[foggy estuary]

I thought previous week was 2 sparks and this week as well, so we could get 2 crafted items

[wide shale]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

[bleak night]

no

first week was 2 just bc its first week

[spring coral]

But should we go with 2 emb for raid. So 1 spark dagger and 1 veteran embellised piece?

[bleak night]

going forward its always one a week

[wide shale]

What does Only during lust mean, so we don't do this logic always?! lol

[vale pine]

exactly

[wide shale]

oh jeeze

[vale pine]

first week had a quest for a 2nd spark

you are on 3 sparks this week

but a craft costs 2 sparks

[foggy estuary]

Ah roger

[vale pine]

soo you can only do one

but you can do a 2nd craft after reset

when getting your spark

[shell relic]

@vale pine my first carft wold be a dagger? with what embellishment? 😛

[vale pine]

darkmoon hunt

you can always wait

[shell relic]

its worth craft now?

[vale pine]

and see if there will be tuning

[wide shale]

Was this to me, or the spark question

[vale pine]

there is always the chance that a early craft send is bad

but dagger is very low risk to be that

[spring coral]

thanks fuu ❤️

[foggy estuary]

12.0.5 has no changes in ptr for us right?

[vale pine]

there might be some small optimizations around supercharger, playing around bloodlust is very low impact and i would just not play around it atm

[vale pine]

some typo fixes

[strange chasm]

Is there spark catch up already?

If we missed the first week

[vale pine]

i don't know that sadly

[harsh gale]

i think there is something for catch up with the spark dust but not completely sure how it works. radiant spark dust

[hazy breach]

Pretty sure you just play the game and they drop, just like in tww

[quick cloud]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[raven sail]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vague oar]

Is there any point in using vanish during dance now or is it used outside of dance

[young harness]

outside

[vale pine]

nope

don't use vanish in dance

[vague oar]

I know there's been times in the past where we used it during so wanted to make sure

[sharp peak]

damn, i'm dumb. looking at this sim only using SD when Stech is up, but I was sending it one in between Stech cooldown

[vale pine]

gameplay for what its worth got a lot easier

[vale pine]

you send 2 during blades

else with secret

[sharp peak]

so it just lines up towards the end as you vanish after the first SD ends

gotcha

I guess I wasn't paying attention at first and thought I had enough SBlades timer to send 3, but I'm clearly wrong.

[vale osprey]

Woops I've been doing the same

Everything seems to line up pretty well like that I thought?

[sharp peak]

we just don't have Shadow Blades still running by the 3rd if we're not ready immediately when STech comes off

[vale pine]

things line up decently well

the main thing to "learn" is how to handle the desync between blades and dance cooldown

[barren wedge]

Hey is it a sim bug or can we proc the Blessed pango charm embellish with something ? (it currently sim second best embellish on me xD)

[olive canyon]

do you think heroic tuning notes will release today or monday?

[weary shard]

what exactly counts as shadow tecniques? https://i.imgur.com/hH6ONuX.png

[weary shard]

ahh i forgot to check passives...

[sharp peak]

what extends shadow blades to 20 seconds?

[calm cloud]

why do people pay for delve boosts in pre season?!

[wispy swift]

wait that rocks, where can i find these people and how foolish are they with their gold

[calm cloud]

why do people do groups for delves anways when tier 7 is the max and you can half afk that shit

[keen dome]

It's possibly quicker and people like doing stuff together

[wispy swift]

yeah during tww my friends and i would spend our coffer keys together before doing our m+ for the day

[calm cloud]

are tier 8 significantly harder then tier 7 ?

[wispy swift]

nah its just more fun than multiple people sitting in a call all doing their own delves

[calm cloud]

that was not my question though

[wispy swift]

as far as needing to buy a carry to do it, idk

[calm cloud]

just when tier 8 releases if its a big difficutly spike

[wispy swift]

it didnt feel different in tww going from 7 to 8

[ornate wind]

I mean go carry them, sounds like easy money

[wispy swift]

pays better than pinnacle chests!

[calm cloud]

wasn't boosting banned or something?

[vague oar]

Omg hi Sena I love your clips

[sharp peak]

@vale pine sorry for tagging, but what increases shadow blades to last for 20 seconds in the sim?

[graceful rock]

tier set

[wispy swift]

boosting for rating yeah but i think itd be crazy if someone got banned for doing a delve carry

[sharp peak]

ooooooooooooooooooooo

[ornate wind]

I don't think anything you can do right now even counts as boosting

[sharp peak]

my king

[vale pine]

tier set 4p

[sharp peak]

i apologize

[ornate wind]

Heck I don't have my tier set yet

[sharp peak]

i was checking everything but the tier. i'm sorry dudes.

[weary shard]

hi and thanks^^

appreciation always feels nice

[vague oar]

I thought i was in the wrong discord seeing u here

[vale pine]

all fine, you did nothing wrong

[weary shard]

back to my rogue roots

now that i don't ahve to put out 3x purple yuri a day

final can relax

[oak sorrel]

no subterfuge feels so weird

[vague oar]

Until the next NA trip then it's back to the mines

[oak sorrel]

it's nice not wanting to kms when i don't get restealth between packs, but god it's strange

[weary shard]

oh i'm still in the mines for 3 vids and 2 shorts a day^^

but without too sensitive topics its easier and faster^^

btw guys. how does sub feel in the m0's so far compared to outlaw/assa?

[sharp peak]

sub feels amazing in m0.

[chrome palm]

I cant imagine playing sin in m0s

[vague oar]

It can feel kinda boring outside dance since it's just storm BP spam but with 20s dance cd it's pretty fun

[ivory garnet]

hello guys is Crimson Calamari still the better choice ?

for m+ and raiding ?

[thorny wagon]

Can I tell my Shadowblade macro to make my character use the Raid Potions first and only use my own when they are empty?

[vague oar]

If you put them in order in ur macro it should use the first one listed and if you're out it'll auto use the next one instead

[thorny wagon]

Does it work with spell ID ?

[vague oar]

It should do. I did it like that in dragonflight

[thorny wagon]

Ok thank you

[plush roost]

Surprisingly wasnt that bad if your tank gigapulled

Youd just start dot spreading on gather and then by the time its all rdy to go its all dotted up

I just turned off crippling

Lol

[chrome palm]

Did I read right that not crippling is a loss

Some fb talent or something

I thought whispyr said something about that like -1%

[plush roost]

Its lethal dose

[chrome palm]

Has that always been the case LOL

[plush roost]

The 1-2% damage increase per poison/bleed on target

Yes

[chrome palm]

I knew that

I wasn’t not running crippling in s2 because it made packs annoying to group

[plush roost]

Ye its bad in m+ to not play

But in m0s i mean...

May as well make it chill

[chrome palm]

Not doing anything in assa until I need to

Hopefully I can go the whole season

[deft seal]

can I use a non-dagger off-hand? My abilities work as far as I can tell, but don't know if I'm missing something non obvious damage procs.

[lofty horizon]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[deft seal]

Got it, thank you.

[calm cloud]

nice(ish)

[sullen hare]

Put on a very slightly crappier ring

[versed hawk]

are the sims accurate? im 241 simming 40k under the unholy dk in our guild lol

stats

[hazy breach]

Well blizzard didnt do class tuning

Youre probably simming less than guardian too, because bis profiles certainly do

Unholy is one of the few specs that do more than guardian

[west tide]

bro get more haste

[versed hawk]

how?

i ran all my m0s

and hunts

flask usually takes me to like 17%

[potent heath]

If u cant u cant

Its ok at this state of season

[west tide]

if u are not at 20% already its TOO LATE

[versed hawk]

sadge

[lilac stag]

33%

new Sectech every dance tech

[plush roost]

If youre not 68.69% (687 rating) haste are you even trying

[violet shale]

i know this isnt news. but as someone really trying to give sub a chance which i am having fun. we really dont do any dmg unless in shadow dance. or im bad idk lol.

[limpid sage]

No that’s the design of sub

[violet shale]

noooo i was hoping i was just bad lol. just trying to quest at 87. i can burst everything down, but if im being lazy and dont press dance its like hitting with a pool noodle lol.

[plush roost]

Ye all damage is in 7 second windows

[sick basin]

You literally do nothing if not in dance

[limpid sage]

I mean you can always make an open world build of sorts

Maximizing gloomblade dmg

[violet shale]

i should be okay i just always thought it was a minor decrease and just a joke in a way. but through lvling im like nope gotta keep dancing.

[sick basin]

No, between the Regen and dance effects SS alone is like 3x backstab

[violet shale]

The aoe rotation also is getting to me a bit lol. but i could be doing somthing wrong.

[limpid sage]

Ye but he wants dmg outside of dance while lvling

[sick basin]

It doesn't exist, it's counter to subs design

[stuck arrow]

Why would you want that? Sub ls pacing is pretty great for leveling.

Idk maybe just take subterfuge?

[limpid sage]

It does if you lean into what I wrote - it’s not optimal by any means

[sick basin]

Just level as Assa at that point imo

[stuck arrow]

I'd try subterfuge if he was in love with Sub. From stealth most small mobs will just die to strike + Evis.

[sick basin]

He said he's 87, he's hitting the point with scaling that it prob won't be enough

[violet shale]

ill be okay its not the end of the world. just dont have rogue friends so had no one else to really vent the lightbulb moment i had with the spec lol

[stuck arrow]

Do you have the two charges of dance talent?

I feel like sub feels great to level with compared to ol or sin.

[lilac stag]

Fire off a dance before you more to the next pack. Have 2 charge combo points stored. Then open with dance + Sectech and you’ll be able to blow everything up with 4 supercharged finishers.

[west tide]

its optimal cause then in the downtime u focus on mechanics and are livelord and u r the mvp of the guild

[elfin hound]

when coup comes up and i'm about to go in dance the next global, whats the correct follow up:

• dance - coup or -dance - sectech ?

[lilac stag]

Sectech first

[elfin hound]

then macro it is

[real panther]

I think the mentra is "sectec asap" unless you are close to the next sb window

[iron whale]

jesus christ I just realized that the worst feeling I have when playing sub is during dungeons

[real panther]

what, you don't like spaming 2bind?

[iron whale]

it just feels so ass and boring, just shuriken into black powder spam with st when it's not on cd

[iron whale]

dude it's crazy... in world while leveling it feels good with stealth and 1shotting things and I really like the new clones direction

[real panther]

peak s tier gameplay x)

[iron whale]

but I stg when I enter a dungeon it just feels so ass

[real panther]

Yep, we are the new raid leader class now

no joke

[limpid sage]

this is my experience as well

on my enha it’s reverse

[night sparrow]

!sim

!spreadsheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[night sparrow]

Robot do that, I guess we still need to track unseen blade stacks then

[real panther]

nah, bind bp with coup

https://giphy.com/gifs/SBS6-pip-sbs6-pellens-fLpP1CZyzFckyy5bML

[night sparrow]

Did already but that's not what I'm talking about lol

if you have coup ready and sectec comes off CD in 2.2, sequence is Dance+Coup > SS > SecTec instead of sending sectec first

[real panther]

oh. not sure if it does a big diff now? idk

[night sparrow]

Already thought that but seems like robot confirms

[tough solar]

Meaning?

Like what

[night sparrow]

idk the diff, will see what our simcrafters think but on paper you don't waste UB stacks = good

I will campaign to have my username recognized beyond borders of Azeroth

Since we are basically a 2 button spec now, tracking something adds a lil more depth

But if it's like 1% that will be disappointing lol

definitly not as important as tww with the CD reduction

diff might still be relevant since coup gives us 5 stacks of flawless form = +20% dmg on sec tec

sounds huge tbf

[hazy breach]

Flawless caps on 5 stacks and its gonna be close to 100% uptime on that

[real panther]

alright I'll use my brain too then, you convinced me

[night sparrow]

WHAT

I wasn't aware of that ><

RIP the lucky 20+ stacks depending on procs at the end of TWW

[hazy breach]

Each stack isnt independant either

Like it was in tww

So if you have 5 stacks, and then proc it again

You refresh all 5 stacks

[night sparrow]

Oh okay

[hazy breach]

Which is why its pretty much 100% uptime on 5 stacks

Barring leaving melee range for an extended period ofc

[night sparrow]

alright thx

[stuck arrow]

It's probably pretty close to neutral based on back of the napkin calcs though, no?

If anything I'd expect a DPS loss?

SecTec scales so hard off of supercharger, you're increasing it's damage by 42%, but you're only increasing your damage on coup by 25% on supercharger.

And SecTec does more damage than Coup as it is?

Maybe it lets you get an extra coup in dance pending RNG.

[real panther]

ok so I forget this unseen blade tracking thing

back to the 2 button puppet

what a journey

[stuck arrow]

Idk, I could be wrong.

[night sparrow]

with this sequence you supercharge both coup and sectec

so idk we will see

[warm marlin]

can you link this sim

based on the 3m21s timer i would guess that sectec just wasnt up and this was the second dance in blades

it shouldnt be couping first

[stuck arrow]

I thought with 2 super charged combo points you dumped both?

Maybe I'm out to lunch though, haven't really paid attention to it.

But I could see it advantageous to try and dump a coup sightly before dance - might get you more coups overall & more unseen classes.

[night sparrow]

Not sure I understood this very well, but sure thing is the 2 next finishers are supercharged when entering dance, or am I missing something

[night sparrow]

It's the single target spreadsheet

!spreadsheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limpid sage]

No you’re right

[warm marlin]

yeah sectec wasnt up

[night sparrow]

I check it and it's not the second dance during blade. I mean the robot doesn't even send a second dance during blades lmao

[warm marlin]

you dont want to coup first gcd especially because you can't apex it

[night sparrow]

except with bl

[warm marlin]

sectec -> strike always procs aa -> usually into coup

[night sparrow]

good point

do you mean we can't apex it bc of premeditation + apex bug ?

[warm marlin]

yes

you could dance/storm -> coup -> strike -> sectec

[night sparrow]

ha kk hope it will get fixed before the Last Titan 🥸 🥸

[warm marlin]

but you're probably not going to apex coup there either unless u pooled sht

[sharp peak]

it has blades during that second dance

[limpid sage]

hmmm what if going into dance with <2 cp + coup tho?

[plush roost]

Wdym bruv

[plush roost]

It was just second dance in sblades

And sec tec wasnt up

[night sparrow]

Ha right, a few sec before SB fades

makes sens

[plush roost]

Sblades is 20 seconds long

With tier

[night sparrow]

y

[plush roost]

3:05-3:25 its in sblades

[warm marlin]

that's prob fine but again still might not apex coup

and you should only do that with sectec cd being 4s

or else u waste cd

[undone mesa]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[limpid sage]

I guess this wont really happen with our APL since you’ll never get the 5 sht stacks to proc aa

[plush roost]

3, storm (3) , coup (2), strike (1) sec tec (0)

!

[warm marlin]

yes

me no math

[plush roost]

Math is for nerds

We play wow

[fickle jacinth]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[plush roost]

Too cool

[stuck arrow]

😂

Maybe legit though it's an optimization to track coup vs sectec and try and stop your unseen blades from not counting towards new coup timers.

If you sectec with coup up you waste those two stacks to upgrade Eviscerate.

[warm marlin]

you only waste 1 generally

[night sparrow]

1.35 avg I guess

since it has 35% chance to strike twice

[graceful rock]

What if we shiv after sec tech to avoid using it

[night sparrow]

that's "a third" of a Coup proc

[warm marlin]

it's okay

[night sparrow]

what if we supercharge slice and dice

[warm marlin]

very slight loss in st, very slight gain in multi

[graceful rock]

Yeah strike does too much for it to be worth in st ig

[warm marlin]

hmm actually think that was before coup clones nimbled

its probably decent in multi now

[night sparrow]

what if we supercharge kidney shot

[stuck arrow]

Even still. If that's over 5 minutes, that's potentially 4 extra coups you can use instead of Eviscerate.

[limpid sage]

You’ll miss out on AA realistically every time though

[stuck arrow]

Likely not world changing but could be an optimization.

Not sure.

[night sparrow]

I mean if apex + prem bug is not fixed by the raid is released, my grandma will explode

[warm marlin]

ye that is not getting fixed

[night sparrow]

devs, save my grandma please

[limpid sage]

Going through it in my head there are almost no ways to go into dance with coup and aa without something conflicting

[warm marlin]

been a bug for expacs at this point

[stuck arrow]

I'm not even saying force coup+aa into dance persay - more that make sure you don't have coup up before you press sectec. Ideally without wasting any sectec cd time, whether that's in dance or not.

[warm marlin]

also i tried simming this a while back, was one of the first things i looked at long ago. things have changed a lot but it was neutral at best if everything aligned perfectly and you perfectly timed your dance exact correct time before sectec

and that was before sectec gave sht

idk its cooked, feels bad losing the unseen blade stacks

it is what it is

[night sparrow]

"Developpers comment : Coup de grâce has been a really fun way of adding depth to the subtlety rogue rotation. Though it turned out that this hero talent tree is too buggy, so we took the tough decision to disable Trickster and we plan to rework it for The Last Titan release"

[warm marlin]

big coup clone damage wowza

we can take solace in the fact that losing the tww3 tier set/flawless form nerfs means unseen blade stacks are worth like 1/6 of what they used to be

[stuck arrow]

Hmm.

Yeah. Even theoretically I guess it's likely a lot of work for minimal gain.

Even if it wasn't neutral.

[plush roost]

New hero talent: Deathster.

New ability: Unseen Mark

[limpid sage]

Cooking

Where is Mark hiding tho

[plush roost]

I ask that question a lot

Usually goes and hides for a minute if i dn something as it dies...

[stuck arrow]

Does kind of make sense that is neutral though. Because maybe you get a few more coups, but they're also less likely to be in dance/blades.

[limpid sage]

Ya you realistically always sacrifice something when trying to optimize for it I feel

Even if it’s a tiny sacrifice it pretty much neutralizes everything you gained since it’s just 1 unseen blade you’re optimizing for

Still find it weird that shiv optimization isn’t better though

[warm marlin]

i can rerun it

it was like over a month ago

[limpid sage]

In my mind it should be like 0.5% st

but prob just doesn’t happen enough

[warm marlin]

well strike is also very good

shiv does negative damage

[limpid sage]

ye but lash should make up for a lot of that no?

[plush roost]

Eh

[limpid sage]

lash from danse

[stuck arrow]

If you've got apl lying around, I'd be curious to see. Haha.

[warm marlin]

it helps. remember that a guaranteed crit storm with a danse lash is just about equal to strike

so shiv is def worse

[stuck arrow]

Strike just way more damage than lash.

[plush roost]

Way more

[stuck arrow]

And wish taking Shiv realistically means you're losing damage elsewhere, no?

Eh maybe not. Could make it work.

[tough solar]

I asked question earlier about secret tech and shadow dance not aligning - if my shadow tech comes up but i don’t have a shadow dance ready for another 6s, if i should wait with the s.tech or not, and someone told me - “if they are not always aligned im not playing properly”

My question is how are they supposed yo align if s.tech has a dynamic cd, and the first part if i should hold s.tech

[warm marlin]

cheater procced a clone

[limpid sage]

Is there a world where we don’t invest into the 15% crit on storm + storm procs unseen in st?

[warm marlin]

you have to take storm procs unseen

hero talents are cringe

[plush roost]

Just proc a shiv clone 🙂

[limpid sage]

Oh gg

[warm marlin]

but 15% crit on storm is ass in st

you aren't storming more than once a dance anyway

the FW might be slightly relevant idk probably not

ephemeral almost certainly better in pure st

[plush roost]

Theres some cook with storm before dance to proc coldblood but idk if its real

[warm marlin]

hmm

[limpid sage]

It is but it was very slight

[plush roost]

Maybe in a world where pooling and afk a few gcds comes up

Youd storm proc cb and pool

But not current sub

[limpid sage]

Without tracking cold blood it was 0.1% loss doing it before every sectec iirc

0.3% perfectly tracking it if not 0.2%

[west bluff]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[west bluff]

oh wow lmao

[hazy breach]

Idk silent storm itself is barely outside margin even in aoe

[west bluff]

did they forget us in patch notes or something

[hazy breach]

Wow pog my average crit chance goes from 75% to 85%

On a spell thats doing 2% of my damage

[plush roost]

Yeah thats why i say not in this current sub, in a pooling world id think its good

[plush roost]

Patchnotes arent out

[west bluff]

i saw some notes with warrior changes, are there more changes coming?

[plush roost]

Those are for ptr, not tuesday

[limpid sage]

Old sub would prob do it ye

[plush roost]

Probably

[twin summit]

hello can someone explain to me like im 12 how to optimize AA usage? i read that its only important during lust

[hazy breach]

Lots of stuff have been swapping around because of random sim reasons. But latest info is: Make sure your supercharged finisher that isnt sectech gets apex

[stuck arrow]

Ooh. How much gain?

[plush roost]

Idk if the masses knew that one yet

[hazy breach]

Not much, just way simpler than the BL one

[plush roost]

Didnt u have it at .6% or was that different context?

[hazy breach]

Ye

[stuck arrow]

I mean worth it.

[plush roost]

Ye

[stuck arrow]

Relatively easy.

[plush roost]

Approaching 100k

!!!!

[hazy breach]

Waiting to see if tuning bricks it

[plush roost]

Haha literally tho

Imagine they buff apex clones to 90%

Gg we always strike finish

[hazy breach]

I think the current tuning is quite neat in a dumb way

Because it says +50% dmg to say eviscerate

But as its only +50% to the physical hit and not including shadowed finisher its actually less than that, but because of all the shadow&clone amp it ends up at roughly +50% anyway

[olive canyon]

do you think its likely they release tuesday patch notes tonight?

[compact iron]

what you think is more viable for m+ now outlaw or sub?

[stuck arrow]

Dunno. Big patch we don't know what is coming Tuesday. Could be anything.

[stuck arrow]

I'd hope tonight. But that gets less and less likely by the hour, lol.

[leaden thorn]

is it worth to backstab for macabre single target ?

[hazy breach]

No

[leaden thorn]

isnt it more dmg if we disregard that it generates 1cp less ? is that reason its not worth or what ?

[real panther]

is it a good idea to put /cast coup \n /cast sectec on the sd macro?

[warm marlin]

it just does less damage than strike

even with danse

[real panther]

I have tried

/cast sb
/cast coup
/cast sectec```

It works, but I don't know if it's optimal or a false good idea

[hazy breach]

You cant just compare the tooltip of the two because wow tooltip are notoriously bad. As they do not include a bunch of stuff

Also storm does more so thats one you would use if you were gonna use something while premed is up

But even that is not really worthwhile

[fallow ingot]

Guys, atm double agi proc weapon enchant are bis, should i run that or take at least one mastery like sim profile ?

[lilac stag]

Are the numbers fuu posted earlier for priority dmg and continuing to force the apex correct?

[leaden thorn]

Ok i'll just believe you 😄

[hazy breach]

For example the apex clones do practically nothing on backstab relative to what they do on strike

[tulip light]

@lilac stag may i ask why you upgraded your trinkets sir?

[hazy breach]

Same with weaponmaster

[hazy breach]

Idk what you are talking about

[leaden thorn]

you can but i would suggest offloading some buttons to different hand if you know what i mean. then no real need to macro it. for example i have dance and generators on mouse and finishers on kb. helps with movement too

[vale pine]

playing the apex optimization in aoe increased prio damage at the cost of overall

[real panther]

oh but my question was more about coup being pined with sectec in the same macro (any)

[short radish]

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-13-march/500174?page=1

@lilac stag 6% nerf to evis. gg

[real panther]

bro

[plush roost]

Good jebait

Insane even

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/how-it-feels-when-you-meme-nanami-jjk-gif-10683277372535996893

[plush roost]

Fucking progging tindral during that patch

😠

[vale pine]

2024

[real panther]

is it a yes or is it a no, bros

[lilac stag]

What else am I going to waste crests on?

[haughty mural]

Saving vet crests for the last titan

[fiery fog]

why is my tricks only lasting 30 seconds with so tricky (1 hour tricks hero talent)?

[hazy breach]

Hit something

[white falcon]

/castsequence reset=10 Cheap Shot, Secret Technique, Shadowstrike, Eviscerate, Cheap Shot, Eviscerate ,Shadowstrike, Eviscerate, Shadowstrike, Eviscerate, Shadowstrike, Eviscerate
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Shadow Dance
If anyone knows how to fix it, my macro worked yesterday, but today the logo doesn't work.
While it works for others, I get shadowstrike and it doesn't work. I remove shadowstrike and it works.
PLS HELP

[shell vector]

Do you have the weapon shadowstrike in your bags?

[onyx flame]

xD

[shell vector]

Also very semantic there may be issues with spacing here

[white falcon]

I only have daggers.

[white falcon]

It worked for me bro, I didn't touch anything, I just logged in the next day and it didn't work.

I wish I could go in and try this macro and tell you if it works for you.

[supple barn]

Does anyone know if Crucible trinket from the quest/renown is simming correclty?

[plush roost]

It doesnt sim correctly for rogue

Voidlust buff just doesnt apply

At all

[supple barn]

ok tyvm

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5f9cHpKkZwQeNcKuE6YZjN

New to using Raidbots and retail in general, curious if it looks like i simmed this correctly. I locked Crucible. Still working on 2 renown peices but my brother leaves town so im sending our m0s first in this probably.

[teal coral]

@hazy breach happy for you

not upset

glad man

super cool actually

gratz

[swift tinsel]

dang notes out

[warm marlin]

not bad i guess

[swift tinsel]

the expected aoe nerf st buff

unholy dk with a 20% aura nerf

[warm marlin]

[twin surge]

we got buffs.. am i reading it right...

[fleet wharf]

wtf we are the only ones who got changes?

[wind burrow]

better is

[wind burrow]

more singletarget dmg

[leaden prairie]

let me not play sub one tier

[spiral needle]

i think the notes forgot the assassination changes ?

[swift tinsel]

surely outlaw notes are coming

[spiral needle]

has to be incomplete

[swift tinsel]

didn't even notice the other two didn't get mentioned

ouchies

[wind burrow]

the most hated spec in my opinion

[spiral needle]

maybe he doesnt know what to do with it yet

[rich canopy]

They aren't aware that Assassination exists, see the energy regen buff being untrackable

[spiral needle]

make sub best prog spec, then suddenly buff assassination into top 5 in .5 patch on repeat

[warm marlin]

nimble back to what it was before they buffed it as compensation for removing evis from it

expected bp nerf

[spiral needle]

more ST with nerfed AoE probably good though

[steel zinc]

ya

big st gain

[tribal blade]

need to see how much aoe we lose

[raven blaze]

tuning

[spiral needle]

what i was hoping for cause im a raid monkey

[fleet wharf]

but after an expansion of BP buffs I am confused

[raven blaze]

ah already posted

[warm depot]

im cumming

[raven blaze]

legit best day ever

sub raid buffed to hell

thank you blizzard

exactly what i wanted

[wind burrow]

same

[honest basin]

LETS FUCKING GO ST BUFF WHOOOOO

[warm marlin]

pretty sure udk and demo are still op btw

[swift tinsel]

imagine not posting a ss one minute after the notes were up

[warm marlin]

udk was 50% above half the specs in the game and only got a 20% aura

[honest basin]

UDK needed like 30%

[spiral needle]

dont think ive ever seen something get nerfed 20% in a balance patch in modern wow

[frail kindle]

aoe nerf kinda sadge in mostly aoe raid

[warm marlin]

ye plus u dont bring sub for st anyway

[stoic carbon]

Ugh,is this aoe nerf substantial

[warm marlin]

a bit unfortunate but not unexpected

[stoic carbon]

Are we dooming

[frail kindle]

idk im not happy about this in the slightest lol

[west tide]

LETS GOOOOOO

[honest basin]

im p sure we're still fine in aoe

[frail kindle]

ur gonna be storm powdering a shit ton

[quick marlin]

duality of men

[west tide]

bro we gonna be cracked in st

[tribal blade]

evis buff slightly offsets the aoe nerf because it buffs coup

[west tide]

as a raider im amped

[tribal blade]

but we'll see

[frail kindle]

theres like zero pure st fights this tier

[spiral needle]

the math nerds will figure it out in a few hours

[frail kindle]

im pretty sure

[spiral needle]

but its probably overall a buff to the spec

[west tide]

sorry to my m+ers

[mighty hamlet]

I still don't think our ST is gonna be good either

[west tide]

ya but overall damage or kill the boss dam

[warm marlin]

it'll still be mid

a lot better than tww3 but

[west tide]

usually adds are never the problem

[frail kindle]

i dont think thats true this tier though

[west tide]

but we still help on em

[tribal blade]

i don't think so, most likely a nerf in keys

but we'll see

[frail kindle]

like theres a lot of orbs and shit that has to die

[warm marlin]

like the other rogue specs are ass for now so its fine but sub aoe is part of what keeps it relevant

[west tide]

technically better burst too if necessary

[warm marlin]

you don't want to lose too much burst aoe

[west tide]

thats true ryld

[swift tinsel]

does anyone have the patrick star psychic link meme

[obtuse relic]

So in mythic plus sub is weaker but in st stronger?

But also not many pure st in raid

Idk how to feel lol

[steel zinc]

our burst aoe is insane

[honest void]

pretty sure ur aoe burst is till bonkers

[astral axle]

how accurate was your prediction

[simple sapphire]

less value on mastery, so looks like crit will gain some value overall?

[astral axle]

it looks pretty accurate glancing at it

[grand tapir]

That isn’t tha big of a aoe nerf

[steel zinc]

eleem will tell us exact math

[azure mauve]

guys is it a sub tier?

[swift tinsel]

havoc getting an immolation aura buff is wild

[honest void]

always is

[grand tapir]

Always has been

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message i don't think it was particularly crazy to expect but ya

[frail kindle]

yeah bro these changes are horrible idk lol. im mad. like why is it 2026 and im seeing Backstab/Gloomblade damage increased by 20%. and Melee auto-attack damage increased by 15%. in patch notes XD

[tribal blade]

keep in mind evis and unseen both got buffed which directly buffs aoe

or offsets some of the nerfs