subtlety

[maiden oar]

maybe they just send adds every 20 seconds on every single fight

and we are the best guy in the entire world and never u se 1 braincell

who knows!

[lilac stag]

I’m talking since legion we have been optimizing cd timings

It’s nothing new

[maiden oar]

yes but how intuitive it is changes

[lilac stag]

yeah it’s way simpler now

[maiden oar]

and having sectech be the anchor point does make it less intuitive

charges or no charges cdr or no ccdr

[vale pine]

the damage of abilities shifted in a way that you don't play around it anymore

[swift tinsel]

I'm of the mind dance should always be the anchor

[lilac stag]

sectech has a timer. Does it fit where your raid needs cds? Yes? no? Optimization done.

[vale pine]

towards secret, i rly feel like we want a longer secret baseline cd and shots in the dark like talent

it still feels weird not having secret in dance

[fallow nimbus]

Yeah, like 45sec cd

[lilac stag]

no shot in the dark. What’s the point of a longer baseline just to make it every dance?

[vale pine]

could even do 90 sec

[fallow nimbus]

Double sectec in blades

[vale pine]

the point is that shots gives one extra use

[lilac stag]

assign the modifier to blades and call it a day.

[vale pine]

so you can use 2x secret once in a while

[maiden oar]

delaying it can lead to overcapping dance / naked dances or single dance shadow blades and all sorts of other nonsense

[vale pine]

if you keep the baseline as is

you would have quite a lot of double secret casts

[maiden oar]

and knowing which of those 3 things to do can be unintuitive

[swift tinsel]

which is why it should be on blades

[lilac stag]

And it’s still way more intuitive than balcony around 4 CDs and CDR

[swift tinsel]

to allow 2x supercharged sectechs every blades window

without relying on haste

[vale pine]

^

[spiral sierra]

dosen't the macro for trickster make dance cast first rather then after sectec?

[swift tinsel]

we use sectech with every dance as is

[spiral sierra]

yeah

[swift tinsel]

so that part is effectively solved

the bigger friction is blades

[spiral needle]

Asking for more sec tech casts is just going to lead into something getting nerfed

[swift tinsel]

not really

[open depot]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[vale pine]

we don't use secret in the 2nd dance during cooldowns

[swift tinsel]

bc we had double sectech in blades all tww

[vale pine]

dance is not super flexible too

[swift tinsel]

if not triple

[vale pine]

because of secret

[maiden oar]

i think the spec previously was less intuitive to pick up but it was easier to adapt it to an actual fight timeline than it is rn

unless the fight timeline in question is pure st or adds at a multiple of 20s every time

[vale pine]

so having a high baseline cooldown gives flexibility

[hazy breach]

Its not really more sectech casts though

Just more intuitive uses that arent dependant on a tier set + a trinket (or having 40% haste)

[spiral sierra]

imagine sectec every dance? thats our future!

[vale pine]

^

[swift tinsel]

that's our present

[spiral sierra]

you have 40% haste?

becouse i sure don't

[fallow nimbus]

You don't dance without sectec

[vale pine]

you do during blades

2x dance

[maiden oar]

u might if u have a ton of adds spawning and that leads u to hold sectech to hit them

[lilac stag]

Maybe the lunch meat does.

[fallow nimbus]

Yes, but that's under blades

[hazy breach]

With the on-use from the raid, and ~700 haste baseline you get roughly 35%

[vale pine]

one is typically without secret

[maiden oar]

but then because you did that uh oh! you are going to hit 2 charges of dance and sectech isnt back yet

[hazy breach]

Which lets you get 2 sectechs in a 20 second blade window

[swift tinsel]

yeah its def doable with tier set and haste trinket

[maiden oar]

do you overcap dance? do you dance without sectech? who knows

[swift tinsel]

which is a crutch

or set of crutches

[spiral sierra]

i was speaking about now on live, not during raid (which isn't released yet) now if the conversation is about raid then yeah sheeeeeeeeeesh tahts going to be FUUUUUUUUUN

[true fable]

which neck would u wanna get from zul aman rep? haste/crit one or mast/vers one?

[spiral needle]

Considering how much stronger black powder is now, it's not like the difference between good and 0 add damage is if you had sec tech or not

[fallow nimbus]

Crit/haste

[maiden oar]

or by holding youd overcap dance

if you dont send a naked one

[true fable]

thanks ❤️

[maiden oar]

etc etc

i think that sort of things fun so i dont mind

but it could be anti fun for alot of ppl

[lilac stag]

and they’re just going to send on cd and call it a day

Just like m+

[spiral needle]

It's more that sub was very unique in that all the charges meant you could hold stuff without suffering, something pretty much every other spec dealt with

Feels bad to lose it, but isn't unfair either

[hazy breach]

They explicitly said they didnt want us to lose it

Thats why people are upset

[lilac stag]

I think their version of it is send a naked dance

[spiral needle]

having decent burst every 20 seconds is still pretty useful

[lilac stag]

and we just don’t like their version of it

instead we got burst every 25-28 seconds

[maiden oar]

could be correct to overcap

depends!

[lilac stag]

I’m not saying numerically. I’m saying design intent.

[maiden oar]

ah

[warm marlin]

i mean it is very blatantly an op aspect of the spec

i get why they would take it away

[maiden oar]

they took our aoe blind

we can keep that instead?

deal?

[hazy breach]

Ye same

[lilac stag]

There’s a reason outlaw got a certain talent and sub didn’t.

[hazy breach]

But then why say "we want to keep it", if you are removing it?

[warm marlin]

yes, thats also why im upset

bait and switched

[lilac stag]

They also wanted haste on everything

[hazy breach]

If they said "its a bit too strong so we are nerfing it"

Thats fine

[swift tinsel]

right that would be kinda expected imo

[vale pine]

the fact is

[swift tinsel]

bc it was very strong

[hazy breach]

Upset is probably too strong of a word too

[vale pine]

that people argue aspects of subtlety to be op all the time

[hazy breach]

Disappointed probably better, atleast for me

[vale pine]

yet it was barely ever meta or had a high play rate

[swift tinsel]

I mean it definitely came across as a rugpull

[sick jackal]

do we craft a weapon this reset a dagger perhaps?

[vale pine]

so reality did not rly make it OP

[swift tinsel]

whether intended or not

[maiden oar]

tbh i loved nimble flurry but im glad its gone bc now we can do st

[warm marlin]

well it only really applies in a raid setting, but there it was indeed op

[swift tinsel]

idk I feel like them having to 180 on the haste dance thing left them scrambling a bit

[maiden oar]

so as long as the trade off for losing a positive aspect is good its ok

i just dont know what the trade off is

[vale pine]

its just, people disslike niches if they are not on thir spec/to their benefit

[swift tinsel]

and they just didn't finish (again)

[lilac stag]

100%

[narrow shadow]

Dreadblades?

[swift tinsel]

like still having sectech hasted cd makes no sense really in the context of them getting most of the changes they wanted

[lilac stag]

I get being upset but for them doing a 180 am the bug fixed we’re eating good this release

[swift tinsel]

by the time it launched

[warm marlin]

ya its not so bad

[swift tinsel]

It just feels 'unfinished' again like DF

[narrow shadow]

Wait what are they removing?

I think I missed something

[swift tinsel]

not to say its in a terrible spot by any means

just some pieces don't really fit atm

[vale pine]

people talk about DF/TWW vs retail

[lilac stag]

Preparation

[swift tinsel]

we got that big haste turnaround in what, November?

[narrow shadow]

Ah

Ok

I was scared for a sec

[lilac stag]

We’re way better off than many specs

[swift tinsel]

Yeah we already have a few guildmates talking about dropping out

[lilac stag]

The incomplete feeling is the pruning EVERYONE got

[celest ice]

can someone eli5 the ancient arts / use shadowstrike instead of finisher to me

[swift tinsel]

some aren't even finishing leveling

[lilac stag]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[maiden oar]

what do they play out of curiosity

[swift tinsel]

umm one is havoc/vdh, another was mistweaver, and a dk/warrior

[maiden oar]

wait wtf really

havocs insane fun rn

[swift tinsel]

yeah idk

[lilac stag]

Fun is individual

[maiden oar]

thought dk also was alright i think frost is better than tww and unholy i dont know enough about the old verison to comment

[swift tinsel]

I'm playing dh as my main alt so I'm vibing but I know he got really annoyed with the UI stuff

[maiden oar]

oh ok ui stuff is fair

[swift tinsel]

UH is very strong but it plays almost 100% identical in st and aoe

[maiden oar]

yeah i think im playing devourer for m+ this season

if rogues not meta

and if devourers not surely unholy is

and if unholys not surely mage is

[swift tinsel]

devourer with apex is notably more fun

[torpid echo]

guys, is it worth to craft a weapon with the spark we get this week and later update it or not really?

[swift tinsel]

which is good bc it felt quite dull in st in prepatch

[maiden oar]

i love the void scarred build with devourers bite

fun talent to play around w

[swift tinsel]

I'm actually more of an annihilator stan

but I do really like the melee build

[maiden oar]

oh i mean hybrid void scarred

where u still cast star

[swift tinsel]

feels like red mage dashing in

[maiden oar]

full melee build is funny though

yea rdm is so cool

[swift tinsel]

do your melee combo anddash out

[maiden oar]

the other one doesnt rly combo as much

[swift tinsel]

that's what actually drew me to devourer initially

[maiden oar]

u just apply devouers bite

[swift tinsel]

played a teeny bit of redm in xiv

[maiden oar]

same

but im finding it more like blm

[swift tinsel]

and really liked that aspect

[maiden oar]

but fire iv extends astral fire tfimer

[swift tinsel]

ah I have no reference level for that lol

[maiden oar]

and astral fire voidform is cool too

[swift tinsel]

I only played a bit of red mage, dragoon, and monk?

[maiden oar]

old mnk went crazy

[swift tinsel]

this would have been around...2021?

[maiden oar]

tbh rn i wish i was a dh main i think both havoc and devourer are really fun

but we have 2 dh mains in my guild gg

[swift tinsel]

whenever Sanctum was current

I'm the only rogue lol I think we recruited another dh

we're at 28 for our roster

[maiden oar]

hehe

i think my rl also probably wants me on rogue

its like my dad used to say

[swift tinsel]

I think our recruitment thing says we're looking for a mage/rogue/evoker

[maiden oar]

what can u do when u live in a shoe

[swift tinsel]

but we have 2 mages and an evoker

[maiden oar]

[swift tinsel]

but it means the rotating bench thing exists for us which I'm not personally a big fan of

since you miss a whole week of prog

[maiden oar]

yea thats no good

[swift tinsel]

plus you lose time bc there's 2-3 people learning the fights a lot of the time

or rather catching up

[maiden oar]

yea

should try ranged void scarred build thoughg

that thing is cool

[swift tinsel]

that'll be my weekend foray probs, I gotta do some dh and feral gearing

[maiden oar]

u just use voidblade to proc devourers bite before star/buffed reap

but its cool dashing into melee then finding a good star spot

[swift tinsel]

I just wanna hit eradicate as much as possible

I'm a bit wary of star and void ray with some of the dungeons lol

if you could blink while casting that would be so insaneo

[maiden oar]

yea

when i send him to m0s im doing full melee build

[swift tinsel]

that's like my one big wish for dev

[maiden oar]

bc i assume nothing lives long enough

[swift tinsel]

yeah

stuff got shredded

[maiden oar]

maybe while doing devour but

i think blinkiing during beam/star is too op

[swift tinsel]

yeah

and they already changed star to not consume souls if you don't finish the cast

but I have a feeling greedy star deaths will be montage-worthy lmao

did you level as dev or havoc?

[maiden oar]

havoc to 80 dev to 90

since i heard low lv devourer is grim

[swift tinsel]

I feel like I blow stuff up way too fast as havoc to swap lol

I play dev in dungeons tho since it blasts

[maiden oar]

yea itd be more efficient to do havoc

[swift tinsel]

the initial ramp though feels kinda iffy

[maiden oar]

but i just wanted practicr

[swift tinsel]

wish there was a way to jumpstart an opener

[maiden oar]

yea

[swift tinsel]

though might just be a haste diff

bc in lust its superspeed

[maiden oar]

[vale pine]

thats kinda a vibe now

i had to dissable addons because they kept bugging out in combat causing "too many errors" to appear commonly

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah I went very bare-bones for a while

or swapped from one to another bc it had bugged out

[maiden oar]

if he was using bcdm i dont blame him

[swift tinsel]

then bugs were fixed and swapped back

[maiden oar]

having to /rl after every level is so annoying

[vale pine]

so, i fixed it by dissabling everything and painfully go through each addon to see the problem

then when i had everything fixed

my gf, who had zero issues before, started to get the same problems

[swift tinsel]

arc was having some lovely issues with things getting confused with hiding in/out of combat

so my whole cdm would disappear

[vale pine]

my biggest issue currently is no addon is rly functional

[swift tinsel]

or wangbar would disappear until I used a finisher

[vale pine]

many addons dissable features from the baseline ui or hide some errors

[maiden oar]

ive had 0 problems with skyriding falcon and opie but i think every other one has thrown some sort of error

[swift tinsel]

yeah they all just kinda feel like they're trying to cover bases but don't have enough to work with

[vale pine]

so the entire ecosystem is kinda fucked

[swift tinsel]

100%

[vale pine]

e.g. we did heroic hunt earlier

i found a cheese for hunts yesterday, blizz seemingly fixed

[swift tinsel]

and its more frustrating because it was at least somewhat avoidable

[vale pine]

the fix was, to phase people who do the final step of the hunt

but also

you now need to be party leader in order to even summon the mob

[swift tinsel]

lmao

[scenic shell]

which one to get?

[vale pine]

my ui did hide the "you need to be party leader" message

and with ui i mean some ui addons which should not rly do that

[hazy breach]

Largely doesnt matter, not vers

[vale pine]

i dissabled all addons to find out why i couldn't summon the hunt target

which suddenly changed from yesterday to today

whats a dissaster for consistency in how things work in a game

[swift tinsel]

see and I don't even know what an addon would need to hide that text for

esp if they have very limited functionality

[lilac stag]

You can apparently find the ambushers while they’re stealthed. Did it accidentally this morning

[maiden oar]

im planning on crit haste bc its good for all 3

[swift tinsel]

I need to unlock the Hardmode hunts

[maiden oar]

and outlaw likes the off hand this tier

[vale pine]

means you now have 2 fail factors you haven't had in tww:

• 1. blizz changing things in disruptive ways out of the sudden
• 2. addons breaking with updates + might hide important baseline ui features

[scenic shell]

whats best for m+ ?

[vale pine]

ye, we did one hardmode today

[swift tinsel]

the second one happened with details just the other day

[vale pine]

its the same as normal hunts pmuch

[maiden oar]

specc or stat

[swift tinsel]

randomly started throwing dozens of lua errors a second

[north garnet]

Is this neck more ideal?

[swift tinsel]

my BugSack racked up 3k reports in no time lol

[scenic shell]

im playing sub but i mean which Missive to go for ? stats

[lilac stag]

Haste / Mastery

[vale pine]

i have not installed details again, it was completely broken the 3 times i tried it

[hazy breach]

If you dont have 700 haste you would get the haste yes

[scenic shell]

ok ty

[maiden oar]

if u just want to play sub only go haste/mast

if u want to play all 3 crit/haste is good for all 3

[swift tinsel]

I'm giving it a try as it was relatively more stable until that happened

and aesthetically, I don't really like the base damage meter

[maiden oar]

outlaw doesnt like mast as much and dagger off hand is actually bis for outlaw

so u would end up using that item on all 3 long term

[vale pine]

i disslike the damage meter

[swift tinsel]

though to be completely honest I kind of want to just not use a damage meter and live log

[vale pine]

^^

[swift tinsel]

and not look at numbers in keys

I log every raid as-is bc of the sectech clone bugs

[maiden oar]

however no acuity cost for recraft

[swift tinsel]

the base damage meter just...doesn't give useful information imo

esp compared to logs

[maiden oar]

so ucan recracft infinitely if ur rich

[swift tinsel]

not being able to see per-ability breakdowns like details offered feels quite bad if you want to glean info

or aura uptime, etc

and if I have to use logs for that anyways I'd rather just use that instead of looking at ugly bars

best part of details atm is seeing fps and latency

which ctrl+r does anyways for fps

[north garnet]

GUYS

[glad cosmos]

My hunts gave me a helm

[swift tinsel]

idk wow overall feels like a downgrade but that was kinda expected

I like playing sub with its apex talents so I'm just focusing on that

[maiden oar]

i got a knife on both of my rogues

[maiden oar]

i think it depends on the guy

[swift tinsel]

haven't even really touched outlaw or assassination

[maiden oar]

some specs feel good and if they remove fractillus was without any collateral im happy

but they arent all the way there yet

long term its probably for the best

but this season will be funny

[swift tinsel]

yeah the growing pains will be very apparent lol

and I fully supported removing computational addons

[maiden oar]

dungeon journal for mythic midnight falls is insane though

im really excited for the raid just bcc of that

[maiden oar]

idc if there are computational class was

[swift tinsel]

just the collateral of losing WA for its insanely good customization sucks

[maiden oar]

if arcane mages want to barrage now! it doesnt bother me

yeah

[chrome palm]

if they restricted chat access

weak auras not an issue

now we have this

[swift tinsel]

the base cdm is not good at displaying information well

[maiden oar]

needs sub/sin apex

[tulip light]

guys does anyone have the ring set from nexus point and knows if it sims correctly?

[maiden oar]

idk why it doenst have it

[swift tinsel]

yeah I'm in the camp of "give every single spell and buff/debuff your spec has and let me pick which ones I want to see"

[chrome palm]

it has it

[maiden oar]

what

since when

[chrome palm]

it has the ENERGY BUFF from it

[maiden oar]

it didnt last i checked

[chrome palm]

not the stack

[maiden oar]

NO

[chrome palm]

they added

[maiden oar]

i got tricked

[chrome palm]

the wrong thing

[swift tinsel]

are you running Will's?

bc that has additional buffs iirc

[chrome palm]

who is will

[swift tinsel]

nvm lol

its a cdm addon

it can hide/alter the cooldown+uptime swipe on cdm icons

but it also adds stuff that the base cdm doesn't

as far as spells, items etc goes

[maiden oar]

cannot believe it

[swift tinsel]

so just Dave is getting left out

[chrome palm]

i wonder how this kind of thing happens

[maiden oar]

who is dave

[swift tinsel]

thats so fucking troll lmao

[chrome palm]

theres got to be like no communication between the ui people and the class people

[maiden oar]

ive been wondering

[swift tinsel]

one sec I'll find it lol

[chrome palm]

like someone said "rogues want implacable on CDM", and someone added the "implacable" buff

[maiden oar]

every time i see arcui i t hink wow so cool

does it give u errors ever

or is it pretty good

[chrome palm]

with no idea what implacable is

[maiden oar]

im using ayijecdm now

[chrome palm]

i honestly havent had ui errors with arc

[maiden oar]

ah

i like dave

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah I should turn my pfp back into reddit dave

stopped using it bc a bunch of other people started

https://tenor.com/view/hair-flip-duhh-gif-26170789

[wispy pebble]

I guess there still is no way to track apex?

[swift tinsel]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

You cannot track the apex talents Ancient Arts through the cooldown manager. However they do show up via the ingame like THIS. If you cannot see them you must go into your settings and increase your Spell Alert Opacity. Some popular Addons (like ElvUI) disable these by default.

[wispy pebble]

Yea thats what i have 🙁 But sometimes its still visible badly

[rich canopy]

It's pretty easy to figure out apex if you just put technique stacks by your CP bar

[swift tinsel]

alright vessel of tortured souls is stinky

having to manually walk over them is annoying

[swift tinsel]

yeah its a bit of an unfortunate palette choice

as hard to see as the clones it procs sometimes

still don't understand why the clone bodies themselves aren't matte, or not-transparent to begin with

corporeal?

the 'flashier' animation and effect they got was nice but I wish they'd have added a bit more to the clone model itself

but that's a gripe as old as time

[bleak night]

depending on who you ask dave is a big ox

[swift tinsel]

True!

I did get to name myself after the brewmaster rework article, A Much Angrier Dave

[radiant swift]

do we apex only for evis in st (up to 3 targets) or for coup too? doesnt specifiy exactly in the guide

there were some discussions i remember of not being worth for coup and stuff like that

and it being bugged for BP

[hazy breach]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[hazy breach]

Thats all there is to it

Nothing more

[vocal rock]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[tulip light]

can we craft 259 weapon or is it somehow capped to 246 for now?

[radiant swift]

the indication, the big black thingies, means it is triggerable right? also ty bigboss

[hazy breach]

The opposite

You already have it up is what they mean

[radiant swift]

yeah sorry i worded that wrong

the idea was to then strike to proc apex 3 into apex 1

[maiden oar]

is it still true that 200 haste and 700 haste have different attitudes towards having the last gcd in dance be a strike at max cp

[hazy breach]

What

[maiden oar]

was a bingus sim awhile ago

didnt know if u guys looked into it also

[lilac stag]

You can craft 259

[brazen mesa]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[maiden oar]

200 haste didnt want to strike for apex in final gcd of dance

and 684 did

[warm marlin]

haste

[maiden oar]

but the apls been doing diff stuff recently and i dont know whats real now

[tulip light]

maybe im just brain lagging but is there any downside in doing so? @lilac stag we want an embell anyways i assume and if we drop a main hand from raid we just have the craft as an off hand? ofc now its irrelevant bc no content but just in general

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-running-dog-sprinting-running-around-running-in-circles-running-aorund-room-gif-15320016707663724564

[maiden oar]

if its true i just get 700 haste and not worry probably

we love it

[chrome palm]

im at the haste breakpoint until i cast coup de grace

[lilac stag]

The only real downside is if they magically buff fishhook dagger to be giga broken.

[chrome palm]

thank you blizzard my spec is so intuitive now

[maiden oar]

i think my haste is fked til heroic week

but i dont know im just whacking buttons

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter either way

[maiden oar]

ok thanks

[maiden oar]

also do u know coup hold threshold in st

ive just been doing it for the time id be sitting at max cp anyway (5s~?)

[hazy breach]

nothing

just send

[radiant swift]

did yall craft dagger already?

[maiden oar]

ok

[elfin pendant]

Hey guys I was reading the sub guides but im still a little unsure of something I noticed. When Shadow blades is still on CD and so is secret technique Ive noticed that there are moments where I can pop at least 1 charge of shadow dance. When I do that it feels very smooth. Is that wrong? like should I never use Shadow dance unless its with Secret tech or shadow blades?

[maiden oar]

appreciated

[verbal kelp]

hello, is it worth crafting the 259 dagger now? and what stats should we put on it? the thing is I only seem to have one spark

[lean rover]

u need to complete the world event quest for second spark

You should have something to complete all the special events

[hazy breach]

Yes craft it now, with anything that isnt vers, so haste+crit, mastery+crit, mastery+haste

Whatever you fancy

[lean rover]

I did mastery haste for sub

[hazy breach]

Then you dont have dance for your next sectech

[maiden oar]

i tecommend crit haste if ur doing sin/outlaw also

[hazy breach]

And holding a dance doesnt matter at all

[maiden oar]

but recrafts cost 0 acuity

[hazy breach]

It genuinely doesnt matter anyway

[lilac stag]

Haste + Mastery likely what you want for now. Can swap it with recraft later.

[elfin pendant]

I could be totally wrong but it feels like I still have it ready for ST

[hazy breach]

ST and dance have the same cooldown roughly

[lean rover]

it's when you dysnyc CD's u should hold

[elfin pendant]

oh so just hold SD and never use it without ST or SB basically

[lean rover]

that's how I been playing

[lilac stag]

Sectech is your priority

Everything else falls into place around it

[rustic raven]

what if im not specced into sectec

[hazy breach]

Its baseline nowadays

Checkmate nerd

[rustic raven]

im outlaw

checkmate

[hazy breach]

My condolences

[lucid jackal]

Getting practice on the best spec is smart

[warm marlin]

we still have a deal guy

im waiting to see how it concludes

[lucid jackal]

Whats the deal?

[warm marlin]

#outlaw message

[maiden oar]

im crafting dagger 1 day before heroic week for delve boss hof

i will not be stopped

most important day of the season

[kind fern]

whens he out? and i agree

[maiden oar]

i believe the 17th

[kind fern]

bless, we'll get it easy

[maiden oar]

[graceful rock]

Hmmm

That might be a cook

But recraft mats a week later

[lilac stag]

The name fits

[visual lark]

the urge of getting 259 dagger is insane, but big gamba

[fierce gorge]

Been leveling up sub, man does it feel rough

May just switch to it at max tbh

[warm marlin]

hence the deal

[west tide]

omg outlaw tier..

i havent specced it one time yet omfg..

[maiden oar]

i like outlaw this patch but dont tell #outlaw that

i dont want to make them sad

[fierce gorge]

I’ve seen a lot of people dooming about outlaw

but it’s been fun for me

[west tide]

i like it too..

[hazy breach]

Have you seen a lot of people dooming about it

Or a lot of dooming about it from a couple of people

[maiden oar]

i mean i get it it sucks when what u like about your spec gets deleted to appeal to people who never cared for your spec in the first place

which is why i feel a little bit shameful as a dagger rogue player going in there and saying its fun for me :)

[fierce gorge]

As someone who is new to rogue, feels good to me

Ass on the other hand

Feels kinda ass

[astral axle]

As an all spec rogue enjoyer before the changes and an all spec rogue enjoyer after the changes I'm happy with how things feel to play 😌

Less happy with the odd utility decisions about rogue.

[rich canopy]

I can't tell whether Sub is really good for leveling or Shadow Priest is horrible

[astral axle]

sub is very chill for leveling

[hazy breach]

Sub is good now

[astral axle]

shadow step around. gather things up and burst em down. then fly elsewhere and do the same

[lucid jackal]

Shadow is very weak atm afaik

raid might make it good thouh, lots of spread cleave

[oblique fable]

What would be the reason to not craft the dagger? What’s the point in waiting?

[west tide]

0

[maiden oar]

they do some random embellishment tuning and the 2pc murder row set is insane

or murder row fish hook is insane

very unlikely but im waiting a bit

[hazy breach]

If you can do your splits and clear first 2 mythic and it drops 2 daggers without having the power from a crafted dagger

So for most people there aint a reason not to

[maiden oar]

surely vorasius gives me 2 knives

[oblique fable]

Good I crafted mine (and wanted to feel better about myself)

[tulip light]

even if it drops 2 we would want the embell i guess and since off hand is very low prio anyways just send it

[graceful rock]

I feel like crafting it might be the play regardless, even if you kill 2nd boss mythic there’s still a chance it doesn’t drop

[maiden oar]

im personally crafting the basic one w/o crest spend

but im gonna hold the crests until we need the dmg to kill a boss w1 or i see vault / 2nd vorasius kill

[hazy breach]

I mean if youve used the spark you should probably use the crests

[maiden oar]

isnt it better to like put it off hand and send crests on vorasius dagger if i hit

and i have 2nd spark from story mode to use on the mainstat thing on belt/wrist

unless we need the dmg

[graceful rock]

Yeah luckily by the time I have to make a decision it will be pretty clear if the first 2 are demanding enough

[maiden oar]

genuinely asking btw i could be incorrect

[graceful rock]

What out of 6 does the dagger drop?

[maiden oar]

2

[graceful rock]

Then I think it’s more worth it yes

Bc it’s either 80 crests for max ilvl or 80 crests for max-3

[dull fractal]

did u end up going for the haste one?

i just got the quest

[warm marlin]

?

[hazy breach]

Do you have ~700 haste?

If not, get more haste

If you do, dont get more haste

Besides youll replace that shit fairly quickly once you can play m+

And even if you happen to end up at 750 haste later on its not the end of the world

[dull fractal]

got it!

[bleak night]

spriest is both undertuned and bugged

your apparitions cant crit

[raven blaze]

what are the haste breakspoints

!uu

or whats the spreadsheet command

[light hull]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[obtuse relic]

My friend told me he watched shing and apparently we shadow strike with max combo points occasionally is this true?

Never heard anything about it until now

[hazy breach]

Yes, its in all the guides

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[obtuse relic]

Ahh didn’t see it on icey veins rotation my bad

[modest snow]

16% haste after my m0 world tour

[lucid jackal]

What if outlaw is better

[oblique fable]

Oh that’s easy. I never touch the spec.

[lucid jackal]

24 hour ban next times a perma

[astral axle]

Is it happening?!

The guy sword craft?

[raven blaze]

we want Haste 18% under enhacements right

not haste 600 + 18%

[hazy breach]

650-700

[west tide]

bro what if

now im not gonna craft tonight

im changed

literally what if

[wind cosmos]

Guys, how's subtelty going

[spiral needle]

check back after 48 hours of world first race

[wind cosmos]

they gonna go with any rogue?

[north garnet]

yee i got the haste one

[short radish]

check back after 48 hours of world first race

[hazy breach]

They always have one rogue, because you need to

Are they gonna play more than one? who knows

[tepid raven]

It will come down to numbers and the HC tuning pass

it's really really really really hard to know what the comps will look like when we can almost expect a massive numbers change for most classes around HC week

[hazy breach]

Tbf theyre probably gone tune all 3 resets, or at the very least twice

[tepid raven]

theoretically

[hazy breach]

During 17/24/31

[tepid raven]

Ye

It's gonna be very up in the air early on

[hazy breach]

But sub is among the tankiest specs in the entire game, especially for raid. So unless its horribly undertuned its going to be fine

Its atleast gonna be good at padding on smallies

[tepid raven]

Gonna thrive on the dragons and tictactoe boss at least

[hazy breach]

Apex'd coup+sectech is 2 big aoe globals

[hazy breach]

Probably on saladbar too since you can stack them with good movement

[tepid raven]

and the solo boss too

[west tide]

there will neva be 2 rogues again

[delicate salmon]

is it just me or is the sub rotation kinda lame to play? in aoe it feels like im pressing 2 buttons non stop

[west tide]

just you bro

this is me playing sub

[pastel quarry]

yeah I'm ngl I'm having the time of my life with sub lol

[west tide]

https://tenor.com/view/pjt-gif-27676220

[pastel quarry]

I'm terrible but still having fun 😄

[delicate salmon]

just crazy because people made fun of BM hunter, but i think sub is the easiest spec in the game

[pastel quarry]

I think baseline it's easy but there's a lot of optimizations and stuff to do to really squeeze the most out of it

[delicate salmon]

fair enough

[spiral needle]

New paradigm is difficulty is backloaded into the content you do rather than the time spent setting up WAs

[short radish]

@lilac stag post the image

[west tide]

shits always been easy to me, i guess thats the difference for us bro…

[delicate salmon]

one thing i do like is the lack of fricition while playing, like the spec just works i dont have to manage gimmicks like assa

[west tide]

shit used 2 be hard 4 u

[spiral needle]

if you are bricked up 24/7, what are you even doing

[west tide]

im jk btw thats just a joke

[long sun]

why does coup de grace and shadowed finishers register multiple hits but the ancient arts proc for coup de grace is 1 big boom

[radiant swift]

did anyone craft a dagger yet? seem a bit wanky sim wants to craft 2 but the other one is on low precision sim with just one

[maiden oar]

there will be this tier

im calling it rn

[maiden oar]

bandaid fix probably

just easier to do the way they coded clones

[hazy breach]

[spiral needle]

hard part is finding a guild that has 2 rogues in it

rare class

[west tide]

never bro if im wrong than god strike me and my children down

[astral axle]

what ancient arts cdg was just born that way

[alpine wraith]

to make us know they could

but decide not to

[west tide]

bro wanna know the secrets of ancient arts but we dont even know how the pyramids were built

[hazy breach]

Gotta study the blade

[spiral needle]

and play outlaw? gross

[hazy breach]

A dagger is a blade too

[manic ice]

what is the haste number for the breakpoint?

[deft lynx]

650-700 iirc

[maiden oar]

i know

[solemn lance]

we got 3 this tier!

[maiden oar]

[west tide]

W

[astral axle]

Blaidd? You mean the friendly wolfman I found howling at the sky during my adventures in the lands between?

[spiral needle]

3 rogues in a mythic guild sounds unhinged

[astral axle]

Why, there's nothing subtle about a wolf man yowling at the heavens at all!

[spiral needle]

pray father ion graces rogues with big numbers

[hazy breach]

Technically ~600, but due to you playing as a human on a server with milliseconds of delays in between inputs you need some leeway, so 650-700 is recommended

If you feel like your still struggling to hit the gcds you can get a little extra

[solemn lance]

I doubt all 3 of us will make it to mythic roster but you never know. Likely be some class swapping before then

[north garnet]

How impactful is neglecting to execute this?

[manic ice]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mkGLrfFUWP51NSbtsAHvTk
i had assumed that dropping 4 ilvl to gain over 600 haste would be a decent gain, but seems like sim says it isnt? unless 606 haste is still too low for the breakpoint

[hazy breach]

Well its also higher ilvl

[hazy breach]

~1.5% on st

[north garnet]

thank youu

[solemn briar]

is this current bis or what, other than crafted ofc

[west tide]

sims can’t account for making it easier for actual humans to hit the gcds

[tepid raven]

That dungeon won’t be in the pool once raid opens

[west tide]

the sims will like to sit at much lower haste

then recommended

[manic ice]

Earlier someone had linked a sim where they were simming higher then someone with 10 more ilvls compared to them. it was said that it was becuase of the haste value difference in the two characters.

so i just assumed that the jump in haste to hit the next breakpoint was big value

[west tide]

im like 237 and would sim like 800 dps higher droppin from 700 haste to liie 580-600 where the sim wants me at

[swift tinsel]

I’m not even gonna sim this whole season it’s vibe gearing time

[west tide]

but im just slappin on haste and callin it a day

#vibes

[swift tinsel]

I’m already mulling over just using logs over the dps meter

[maiden oar]

is there a good way to run a sim with a minimum haste value

[twin quartz]

Lol yeah, I’ve looked at the dps meter breakdown a half a dozen times and can’t even tell what my apex is contributing

[brisk onyx]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[maiden oar]

so i can find the combo that puts me at a comfy human threshold with the least loss from theoretical robot perfection

[manic ice]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uRrUqqSXReetPcHUP88p6E is the sim im refering too, 221 ilvl simming 41.2. compared to https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7QSgQrquLTRu4eKDa8ohgK 231 at 40.7

[swift tinsel]

Transcend and become robot

[maiden oar]

oh ok

[twin quartz]

Ring scaling is weird right now

That probably accounts for it

[west tide]

haste is your best stat until 17% for raidbots

the lower guy has 12%

[manic ice]

guess that makes sense, all the extra stats from enchant/gems, as well as the stats not being much worse on the item itself

[swift tinsel]

Just kidding never give in to the machine that’s how they win

[west tide]

the top one is sitting at the preferred raidbots level

however its reccd to go higher which will sim lower

[wintry heart]

Did this wording just get changed

[hazy breach]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

You cannot track the apex talents Ancient Arts through the cooldown manager. However they do show up via the ingame like THIS. If you cannot see them you must go into your settings and increase your Spell Alert Opacity. Some popular Addons (like ElvUI) disable these by default.

[twin quartz]

Yeah rings are weird atm. You can upgrade them once and sometimes they don’t gain secondaries

[manic ice]

those crafted rings only ahve 13 less stats compared to my 224, but have 47 extra stats in gems/enchants

cool, makes sense now

[plush roost]

Quick sim and top gear tend to give different ranges

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bi4VcSXd45XG8wjGVHAQVd

[pulsar hemlock]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[plush roost]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/scx8k89AYpgjCBt1xL6j8Z

[plush roost]

i do find it funny how mobile raidbots applies tww consumes

[hazy breach]

The default consumes wasnt changed until yesterday

[plush roost]

nice mog

[vernal drum]

Oh thx you

feel weird to play rogue now without everything

[plush roost]

but yeah its mostly haste and the rings gems being op af. See breakdown of casts, way more backstabs on him and less /strike/evis/sec tec due to less energy and dance uptime. (Also the time of his sim is 4:40, mine is 4:21 so theres 20 seconds of gcds unaccounted for)

[bitter halo]

What missive are we using on first craft dagger?

[hazy breach]

Anything thats not very

But if you need an answer just go haste+mastery ig

[bitter halo]

Ty, what’s the name?

[astral axle]

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=what+is+the+name+of+the+haste+mastery+missive+in+world+of+warcraft

[deft lynx]

Just make sure it's the midnight one

[vernal drum]

XD

[bitter halo]

Thanks 🙈

[tulip light]

can we trust sims regarding the nexus point ring sets? they both do have haste on top of the dmg procc but it seems a bit high in sims

[astral axle]

♥️ Posted only because I'm sure most people just google that instead of having each missive's name memorized :]

[gleaming plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gleaming plank]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[rancid sierra]

Has anyone seen these simmed? Are they really good or meh?

[mortal crag]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[mental saddle]

are we crafting dagger now ? or wait btw guys?

[plush roost]

They are meh

[south rover]

So still dagger first craft?

[plush roost]

Okay lemme off the dome this, ty beta crafting:

Harmonious: verse mast
Aurora: haste versa
Fireflash: haste crit
Quickblade: crit verse
Peerless: crit mast
Feverflare: mast haste

Did i win?

[hazy breach]

⭐

[plush roost]

W rizzler

[steel crane]

has anyone figured out what a good ToT macro or found an addon to replace the misd wa?

[hazy breach]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[hazy breach]

@steel crane

[deft lynx]

I didn't realise how much I relied on WA's, the amount of times my poisons have just dropped off with out me realising is beyond a joke

[twin quartz]

i really want my weakaura back that makes a noise when i get combo point refunds

[astral axle]

https://tenor.com/view/omg-jurassic-park-sam-neill-gif-7377559

It is him

[steel crane]

goated thank you

[smoky dirge]

hows mythics as trickster vs deathstalker so far?

[tulip light]

There is an addon called poison helper or something like this. Works perfectly fine just like the old WA 😄

[tulip light]

You can. But since there is no relevant content there is no rush either

[hazy breach]

At the moment there is no situation in which i'd recommend deathstalker

[short radish]

what if i really hated myself and wanted to experience no joy or happiness throughout my experience in a dungeon

[chrome palm]

Assa is right there

[versed hawk]

is there a downside to having a sword in oh?

[radiant swift]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[short radish]

yes. dont do it

[versed hawk]

oh shit ok ty

[potent heath]

Only dagger in 2 hands so ?

[potent heath]

(I didnt know any words in English thx)

[short radish]

using a level 1 dagger in your offhand will do more damage than any sword

[potent heath]

wow

[jagged coyote]

So with us running Danse Macabre, is it worth Backstabbing once at this point? Or is it strictly Shadow Strike?

[short radish]

do not play around DM

[jagged coyote]

Sadge

[short radish]

you can for funsies but its not worth it

[plush roost]

For now....

Cant wait to see backstab tuning on the 17th

[hazy breach]

Backstab would need a lot

Storm is more likely

[plush roost]

Gloomblade however...

Coping

[swift tinsel]

baseline inc

we're gonna eat so good with the tuning pass tho trust

[plush roost]

Honestly id be fine with like a massive lashe macabre buff

Make playing around it more relevant and buff our prio damage

But thats "complexity" i suppose

[hazy breach]

Forcing apex on coup and using strike does that already though

[bleak night]

yeah they've implemented some kind of Complexity Limit to the game

[hazy breach]

It's neutral overall in sims,but better prio

[swift tinsel]

might have to Liquidate

[jagged coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/give-me-it-give-me-that-bobby-newport-gif-16327655

[plush roost]

Moreso theyve made it a goal to reduce it, so I Echo that sentiment

[hazy breach]

But yeah it could be more

[bleak night]

im sure theres a Method to their madness

[plush roost]

Yeah we'll find out after we pick up all the Pieces

[swift tinsel]

ah, the Duality of game design

this calls for Vodka to cope

[plush roost]

Yeah.. they gotta cope with all their Instant Dollars

[hazy breach]

Nah bro I'll go out for some hotpot with my heros instead

[swift tinsel]

do they have Poptarts and/or Corndogs

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tsss-drum-band-gif-7320811

[plush roost]

Okay Wow Girls, this has Gone Wild

[chrome palm]

Sub is well below whatever that is

Oh it’s a pun

die

[swift tinsel]

bro missed the Wave

okay no more off-Colour jokes

[plush roost]

Yeaaa thats a big XD

[bleak night]

[chrome palm]

Still not sure what it stands for

[sour horizon]

"Fixed an issue that caused Airborne Irritant to incorrectly apply its old AoE effect to Blind. The effect now matches the current and intended talent description."

awww atleast I had one day of M0 with a AoE stop

[brisk onyx]

Increased the stats granted by Midnight ring enchants.

[plush roost]

There is no Consequence for our actions

[short radish]

Honestly this is getting old.

[trail beacon]

Hey guys, how do you like the sub in Midnate?
I played it in Dragonflight and TWW, cutting half the buttons in Midnight feels awful, and the spec literally turned into a three-button one.

[plush roost]

gn man.

[lucid jackal]

I bet $50 you are playing the spec wrong despite it being 3 buttons

[lucid jackal]

LOLOL

[plush roost]

I got inspires by ForeverGuy is typing... hehe

[short radish]

not very Ethical of you

[deft lynx]

I cant wait to see how you guys fit FSY in to this conversation

tag me when you do, I want to be here to see it

[eager latch]

i can't believe they took out aoe blind

actually insane

[chrome palm]

We bring style

[short radish]

huffing my Copium they'll bring it back

[chrome palm]

And that’s about it

[plush roost]

Well after eating on all these delicious puns wouldnt you feel like a Fat Shark, Yes?

[plush roost]

My favorite part of m0s was every single shroud being cancelled by demolock pets

We bring shroud! Wait...

[short radish]

i swear demo lock pets AI got even more fucked this tier

we did one small pull then were going to shroud

[plush roost]

It was totally fine on beta

[short radish]

then the demo lock just decides to pull another 1/4 of the room

[plush roost]

Something happened on live

[hazy breach]

Surely they increased the crit damage one too right

[short radish]

then the rest of the room

[short radish]

another day, another 50 mage bug fixes

[brisk onyx]

shit I sell all the rings from world quest

[plush roost]

I kept my 2 vet rings just in case hehe

[hazy breach]

What did they change on the ring enchants

[plush roost]

Ye someone log in and give me NUMBWRS

[narrow sun]

I can never outdps a demo lock or frost mage, is this intended? Fuck man, maybe I should try a different spec.

[lucid jackal]

should be able to

But ur comparing to the probably literal top 2 specs in the entire game rn

[ember lintel]

Can I rip my adventurer crests or should I be holding

[short radish]

tuning is coming on the 17th

[warm marlin]

Nothing is beating demo or mage

[short radish]

just chill and have fun playing the game

[lucid jackal]

If the only way u have fun in the game is playing fotm, yes

REroll to DK, Mage, Warlock

[short radish]

true

but for some reason im allergic to playing fotm

woe is me.

[plush roost]

Its over bro blizz gonna look at this specific log 8% of the way home

All tuning analysis based on this log of pure padding and absolutelyNO WARLOCK DEATHs

[narrow sun]

That must be a terrible player on the lock kekw

[brazen steppe]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[plush roost]

Yeah known top warlock pfw is terrible indeed

:^)

[swift tinsel]

screenshotting that jic

[plush roost]

Oh nonive been exposed its joever bro

[warm marlin]

[plush roost]

Hjat is this emote bro

Ratpreg

[short radish]

i need this emote

[warm marlin]

[swift tinsel]

lmao I'm neither surprised nor mad that emote exists

[warm marlin]

I’m surprised it isn’t in conseq already

I spread it to my guild

[plush roost]

Demonic

[short radish]

thank you for this

[sour horizon]

just play with avg players and feel good at top of the meter

https://tenor.com/view/theodoros-gif-18371963

[lucid jackal]

I love that any time u beat a percievedf OP spec ppl just say that the player is terrible

[plush roost]

I love posting out of context log screenshots

[ionic wave]

On the off chance that I have secret technique up but no dance charges, should i hold ST or send it?

[hazy breach]

Easy answer: Hold
Complicated answer: As long as you are not gonna end up capped on dances later by sending then go ahead

But that depends on your haste

[ionic wave]

bet, ty

[west tide]

charrend do u have craft weapon

[plush roost]

Nah

[lucid jackal]

He knows he has to craft a sword

[short radish]

[plush roost]

No point in crafting till 17th

[short radish]

wym, gotta get r1 on those m0 runs

[plush roost]

Maybe vet dagger drops for me omegacopium

Vet warglaive dropped on my dh...

[deft lynx]

Wait, there's loot in m0s?? I must have been loot locked or something ig

[sour horizon]

yeah? well I got 3 Helms all worse then the renown one

[lucid jackal]

Did u buy the epid edition?

[warm marlin]

I did it

[deft lynx]

Dont tell me ur going to enchant it too, 25k for the enchant

[warm marlin]

If outlaw actually survives the thunderdome I will level my third rogue from 80 to 90 and gear it all up again

[warm marlin]

max rank baby im never unequipping it

ofc it got that enchant

[sour horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/dive-into-money-money-bin-ducktales-scrooge-mcduck-gif-1520915004553762854

[warm marlin]

my counter deal against guy

He crafts a sword I’ll do dagger this early

never regret

[deft lynx]

Did you have to buy all the mats too?

[warm marlin]

ya but my blacksmith guy has high knowledge already so didn’t need full r3

[deft lynx]

Oh that's good, I was going to say, it's like 70/80k all in with the enchant

[lucid jackal]

LOLOL

[warm marlin]

I will hold you to this

it’s never outlaw!

[pale elk]

3+ targets we always aoe, but prio is st > coup > bp ?

[lilac stag]

Want me to log on smith?

[west tide]

they scared me into waiting

now i have to wait sorry 🙁

what IF its outlaw tier omfg...

[tribal blade]

there's no shot my splits rogue has a higher ilvl dagger than main

[bleak night]

[tribal blade]

/dead

[lilac stag]

Assa will get buffed a week after and the outlaw craft LOL will be wasted.

[coarse hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[west tide]

lmao i can see that

[frigid prawn]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[hybrid prism]

yall, is it me or is sub nuts rn?

feels so good to play and feels like a lot of dmg

[hollow spear]

Sub is good

But nothing crazy

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[fallow nimbus]

Is aoe blind gone?

[alpine wraith]

yea

[vale pine]

oh, did they fix it now?

[alpine wraith]

yesterday

[vale pine]

F

[alpine wraith]

could not escape

[brisk onyx]

[vale osprey]

I think the best is just that it feels so smooth to play rn, m+ feels so nice, getting a CP refund every other black powder

[hearty steeple]

guys are we meta?, coz i am banging left and right, i always top dps against the assumed tier S dps specs like UH DK, Mage, DH...? or things will change with tier sets?

[vale osprey]

Think we're solid but we're not aug, demo lock, uh DK, devourer

[fallow nimbus]

How far ahead is the hunt embellishment and is it likely that it gets nerfed or that bleed dagger buffed?

[vale pine]

the diffrence is not that big

[spiral sierra]

rip blind 2026.

[hearty steeple]

yea!, even if I encountered skilled Meta player, I dont see much difference

[onyx flame]

It‘s M0, things drop giga fast, we have alot of instant burst. You can‘t even remotely compare that to +15s

[west tide]

sub does feel strong..

that lil apex trick is going to be so good for burst too..

[hearty steeple]

yea but the new built is sustainable, meaning u can keep doing dps, u will be out of SD for little time compared to old subt builds

[onyx flame]

wich one?

[hazy breach]

Dance uptime is actually fairly similar to the old iteration

You cast dance more often, but each dance is shorter

So overall uptime is similar

[vale pine]

40-45% uptime

[hybrid prism]

im 238 ilvl and i still need to get my champ belt from renown and it feels so freaking good to play

i slap too, like wayyyyy more damage than others

[vale pine]

Hotifx note

This means no longer aoe blind, the talent remains a strong option.

[ornate lake]

What trick

[hazy breach]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[ornate lake]

Bruh I always enter sectech with 5 stacks of shadow technique lol

[nimble bolt]

How do we deal with duo bosses? Like the one in Windrunner Spire? I don't know if i should finish with powder or evis

[next pulsar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[green torrent]

is it too soon to know which spec will be strongest?

in m+

[heady venture]

which dagger do we craft preferably?

[lucid jackal]

Sin has good funnel
Sub has good burst
Outlaw has good overall

[vale pine]

subtlety used to have the funnel niche, which is sad

[grand wyvern]

does our bis trinket Light Company Guidon change in any way the haste breakpoints? or we do not care because we want 2 extra gcds for regular dances anyway?

[keen dome]

Sad they finally fixed Airborne 🙁

[lucid jackal]

and outlaw used to have the cleave niche

[vale pine]

depends on what xpac we look at

[alpine wraith]

does not change breakpoints

it just gets quite a bit of value in st because of blades+tier set

is 20 secs of dance

if you use the item

you get around that uptime of dance

otherwise you have 16 or so

for aoe puzzlebox is a bit better but also maybe they keep buffing other trinks

and we can escape it

[grand wyvern]

i see, thanks

[steel zinc]

This we are useless in some affix weeks

[crystal blaze]

what did they do to this spec

it felt like ass in tww but now i feel like a monster

a wrathful god of destruction

[lucid jackal]

Unsure what Ur asking

[crystal blaze]

whatd they change about it to make it feel so good

i hated being an auto attack bot outside of cds

[tribal blade]

if you found sub ass in TWW makes sense you like this iteration because it's mega simplified

[stoic carbon]

Sub felt really good in m0's, how was the experience at the end of beta, for those who played it?

[tribal blade]

sub is a solid A tier according to a lot of key steamers from beta

it felt good in beta doing keys

[stoic carbon]

Damage profile is kinda wack but outside of that seems decent

[tribal blade]

most specs do "pad" aoe with some prio

[stoic carbon]

We seem to do some pad with some pad

8D

[tribal blade]

not all specs can do what sin or other funnel specs do

you can actually force more prio as sub i think

[stoic carbon]

Yeah, just givin up on overall then, which i guess most wont do

[tribal blade]

if you force proc apex on coup even on mass aoe

[sharp oriole]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[torn tide]

does it really do anything when u apex on coup?

[alpine wraith]

yea it spawns a copy that sends a big hit

[lucid jackal]

Removed a lot of redundant buttons

[tribal blade]

coup already hits hard, so you can imagine apexing the coup is big dmg to your main target 😉

now that they bugfixed it it cleaves with nimble too which is not too shabby

[torn tide]

oh the clone copies coup so basically u have 2 apexes

[torn tide]

nasty

[spare quiver]

what tier do u think guys rogue is actually?

[alpine wraith]

upper mid tier in st quite decent a sniping things too

[spare quiver]

in raid also?

[alpine wraith]

in raid we will be quite decent most likely

[spare quiver]

nice nice

[tribal blade]

hopefully we won't be victim to heroic week sectecing adds shenanigans

and get hit with a nerf

[worn rose]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

Thats unlucky, because subtlety is def. designed to do damage mainly during cooldowns

[ruby ginkgo]

Since i guess we craft a dagger anyways, should i craft a dagger once i have the sparks?

[vale pine]

don't think you need the craft for any content this or next week

a dagger is probably the best first craft, so you can craft one but will need to re-craft later for higher item level

[ruby ginkgo]

Y sure, 100% i agree that you dont need, but if i have gold to spare i dont make a mistake - still "Farstriders Mercy + Hunt" right?

[alpine wraith]

just check the dagger does not have intellect as main stat

and you should be fine

[ruby ginkgo]

There is one with the bleed effect

[alpine wraith]

ah true that one is a bit troll

[hollow spear]

Crafted daggers with effects are unfortunately always troll

Such a let down

[uncut socket]

every xpac someone gets messed up haha, do they have 95% the same name this xpac too?