subtlety

[crystal bone]

i wish i had something more obvious than a number 4 on EB

[shrewd lantern]

like it did prior

not sure why thats the case

my coup in tww used to just glow

when it was up

[swift tinsel]

I'd always done it by EB stack number so its a vibe

[crystal bone]

wait

hold the phone

what did i just do

[real belfry]

Still getting a feel for the new blizz tracking. I'll have to give this a shot

[crystal bone]

hmm it bugged back to EB

idk what i did there lol

i tried adding a 2nd alert and it gave me coup icon for a minute there

[hollow spear]

I need to make some alts to push Eleem to the brink

[crystal bone]

it works great for DN

not so much for coup it seems

[graceful rock]

It’s weird bc coup it self isn’t a buff

[placid crown]

Yeah so the alarm does not work

you hear it when you get the 1st stack

so you cant have an alarm when coup is available

so it sucks

but

because you can macro coup with black powder

you dont even need to track the stacks before coup at all

i mean, i guess

@crystal bone

ok so this time guys I have a true good question

[west tide]

alright

[swift tinsel]

Down with the BP macro

[wind wharf]

why is coup just not a buff, I do not understand that

[stuck arrow]

It's a new ability, same as like gloomblade.

[lilac stag]

bet

[chrome palm]

[swift tinsel]

Rip

!newmain time

[chrome palm]

oh its actually over

[swift tinsel]

Oh god let’s just pretend that never happened

[astral axle]

bro...

[grand wyvern]

the buff is escalating blade, still you would need the sound to go off at 4 stacks and its not possible in blizzard cdm

[swift tinsel]

Those prey mfers love waiting until dance ends to ambush I stg

[wind wharf]

yea i'm aware that escalating blade is the buff

but other classes have mechanics where one buff builds and then becomes something else, and the separate buff is typically trackable

[novel yoke]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[warm marlin]

blizzard has decided that unseen blade not be trackable whatsoever

[swift tinsel]

Secret Secret Value

[warm marlin]

and now that wa are gone it is impossible to predict it

[hazy breach]

It was secret even before

[lilac stag]

Welcome to sub rogue jank. Enjoy your stay however long it is.

[warm marlin]

we had the LE weakaura that kinda did it scuffed

[wind wharf]

my sub rogue jank started in dragon soul, i'm familiar

[warm marlin]

obviously couldnt track thousand cuts

but seeing the disorienting + 20s timer

[lilac stag]

Obviously not if you’re comparing it to other classes.

[fleet acorn]

anyone knows the adventure mode - free teleport macro for alts?

[placid crown]

Sooo my question : the strike thing even if we are 7 cp : why it says that we have to do it "for 1 to 3 targets" whereas whatever if we are under dance or not, we have to use storm for 3 targets ??

[spare crown]

Guys, I heard the reason we are having haste stats is that we need to push more buttons in shadow dance but do we actually need 15%, I heard around 9% is enough to push an extra button in shadown dance

[fleet acorn]

18

[swift tinsel]

18% for two extra globals

[stuck arrow]

9 gives you one extra button. 18 gives you two.

[spare crown]

oh gotcha i saw the FAQ channel was 15

[placid crown]

16 gives me +1.29 sec so also 2

[grand wyvern]

hate lol

[swift tinsel]

The 18% affords an extra lil buffer

Relevant bc of coups extra gcd length

[hazy breach]

Well for one extra you only need like 3% (not counting alacrity)

[swift tinsel]

And latency, reaction time

[hazy breach]

But the ~700 haste recommended is for +2 globals in dance, not 1

[placid crown]

~700 haste give you how many seconds in bonus ?

[spare crown]

is extra time for latency and reaction included in 18% or I have to get more due to my 200ping

[stuck arrow]

200 ping in 2026? Ouch.

[spare crown]

yeah I study abord so...

😭

[grand wyvern]

between trickster macro and spellqueue you can probably still hit it pretty tight even with ping

[bronze hatch]

since cold blood is now cold blooded killer, is it still high priority talent or can i justify putting it elsewhere for util, i.e. 1/2 subterfuge?

[plush roost]

About 2.4

[spare crown]

Got it! Ty guys for answering!🫡

[placid crown]

alright. With 587 right now i have +20% and +2.11 sec

[hazy breach]

First dance alters it a bit since its 9s baseline instead of 6s

[plush roost]

587 was an old breakpoint but 700 is ideal for coups

[placid crown]

687 sorry*

so with 687 haste and first dance : 11.1sec

so yeah as you say, 700 for coup

and in this guide it says the best is ~18 %

but 18% is ~+1.87 sec and it seems to suck

so i guess the +18% takes into account that during the fight you will have apssiv buffs that boost the haste in order to put us to +2.X sec

i guess

[warm marlin]

it shouldn't, 687 haste should be + 2.4s

[hazy breach]

Its +1.4

Not 2.4

[warm marlin]

yes sorry

+2 gcds and 0.4s leeway

[placid crown]

with 687 i have +2.11 so +3 gcd if not coup

[hazy breach]

Yes because you have tfd up

[placid crown]

ohhh

you have to explain me the thing here

so yeah if i dont have first dance, i'm at +1.4sec

why

[lilac stag]

because you have enough for 2 gcds

[hazy breach]

Because 9 x 1.2 is a larger number than 6 x 1.2

[placid crown]

may i say that this explanation explains nothing D:

[hazy breach]

If your haste increases the duration of your dance by 20%

20% of 9 is a bigger number than 20% of 6

[placid crown]

i didnt know that

[hazy breach]

[swift tinsel]

Wait

[placid crown]

wait

yes i kknew

i mean i had to knew

😄

[swift tinsel]

Your whole previous conversation about haste extending dance

Ope

Happy Monday ig

[west tide]

bro i hate haste breakpoints now i gotta raidbots 10 rings necks 20 enchants

find the +16 dps

[hazy breach]

Not really

[grand wyvern]

if you hate yourself yes, or you can enjoy some extra margin

[west tide]

i will always get more dps

[swift tinsel]

Just use ReforgeLite

[hazy breach]

As your enchants should generally be crit damage anyway, not secondaries

on rings

[west tide]

dude i wish we had reforging

yo there are crit damage enchants?

thats sweet

[grand wyvern]

if you figure out the breakpoint you are comfortable at you could force that value and sim gemming/enchanting only other stats

[swift tinsel]

I have my pocket JC ready for gem swaps (and vials)

[stuck arrow]

Can you set a minimum haste value in Top Gear? Maybe a fuu question.

[west tide]

cant force it bro since other pieces can reach that same %

have to know whats optimal

i will be doing big sims

[swift tinsel]

Or just look at the haste you have from your gear and do basic addition/subtraction

[west tide]

the robot can do it

better than me

[warm marlin]

top gear won't even push you to the correct haste levels 🙂 it will go to theoretical robot required amounts for gcds

[placid crown]

"extended by +150% of the haste" so if i have 20% haste, +150% of 20% is 30%

[warm marlin]

the 196/687 benchmarks give you more room to be a human

[grand wyvern]

nah it's more likely that you forget some options overcomplicating than simplifying

[west tide]

what the numbers mean

haste?

[warm marlin]

yes

[west tide]

first breakpoint and then a 2nd?

[warm marlin]

for +1 and +2 gcds

[west tide]

i see ok

[brisk onyx]

[swift tinsel]

[west tide]

i need 3 gcds

pi me

[warm marlin]

[west tide]

dude wait we dont even need haste

get pi

go full crit mastery

[brisk onyx]

morning guys

[warm marlin]

[limpid sage]

real

[swift tinsel]

PI gives haste rating now?

[west tide]

gimme a blessing of summer

[frail bone]

you guys finding alot of the posion and stuff in world content/delves and dungeons hitting hard like to the point you want to play dwarf for the drop?

[limpid sage]

tww s3 stat splits

[hazy breach]

He doesnt know

[grand wyvern]

only your stat value counts for dance, i dont think pi counts

[pulsar hemlock]

Ok I was a hater of the apexmaxxing before I turned on spell alerts, now i get it.

[west tide]

they dont want us to have anything

[pulsar hemlock]

Kind like this now

[graceful rock]

Pi, lust, troll racial, don’t give us more dance duration

[west tide]

omg i have to do sim with haste flask vs crit flask

what if i have a perfect gear set for haste flask

computah add 16 million simulations

[placid crown]

No but for real sorry can you explain again why first dance changes the bonus of seconds of dance ?

[warm marlin]

they just made it so the tfd +3 seconds applies before the haste increase

initially it applied after

[grand wyvern]

ithe haste increase t is a percentage increase

[broken seal]

Yo !

[west tide]

the talent page for raid doesnt use tfd.. omg..

need more haste

[swift tinsel]

Tfd only favors short raid fights

[placid crown]

it does not explain

the first dance talent only says "+3sec of dance after out of combat during 6sec"

[broken seal]

guys what is your opinion since the release of Midnight for sub ? looks like the apex talents give a bit of difficulty to the spec actually no ? (not about the prio spell but the management shadow techniques could give you ?) I'm starting Midnight tommorrow

[alpine wraith]

apex does not change gameplay a lot

but it is cool

clones brrr

[astral axle]

you get to go swish swish swish

[grand wyvern]

dance duration = (base duration) * (1+haste_multiplier)

increase in duration duration = dance_duration - base_duration = base_duration*haste_multiplier

with tfd base duration is longer hence the increse in duration is longer,

i dont know how to be more clear

[glacial hinge]

yo, question
when we have more than 5 stacks on ShT do we end up evnetually on dance doing strike strike evis evis (cuz of rank1 AA and rank4 AA

[placid crown]

thank you very much

[broken seal]

okay okay

[narrow shadow]

How much % increase is apexmaxing in ST?

[hazy breach]

if is not up and have 5 or more stacks of , and, then cast to trigger (even at full combo points).
per the #subtlety-faq, also in the guides

[narrow shadow]

Is it a huge damage loss of we dont do this?

[hazy breach]

1.5% in ST

[narrow shadow]

And we only do it in ST, correct?

[hazy breach]

Yes or on 2-3 targets

[broken seal]

and what about the optimization ? Because Sub is obivously easier than the previous one about the basics things, but it still a bit more tricky to optimize our damage ? of course without death symbol etc, the punishment is not very severe I think but maybe you must be aware of a lot of little details?

[surreal cedar]

I haven't played sub since DF.. Am I crazy or did they dumb it down A LOTTTTTT

im looking at the rotation guide and a little confused

[plush roost]

aint no way we goin "its dumb down" into "im confused" hahahha

[west tide]

lmaooo

[surreal cedar]

sorry that might have been really complex for you to understand

[alpine wraith]

well you can just take a quick look and maybe be confused

[plush roost]

i get ur confusing its really unintuitive

[alpine wraith]

but just ask around

[plush roost]

that shits just funny haha

[surreal cedar]

I am confused because I am used to it being more involved

[alpine wraith]

yea it is that easy

[west tide]

and then

[alpine wraith]

until real choices come in

[west tide]

suddenly

[surreal cedar]

thanks for a normal answer

[alpine wraith]

then men are chosen

[west tide]

heed the call

[alpine wraith]

most of sub complexity rn is where to snipe more dmg on multi target situations

[west tide]

1.5% is there for the chosen

[alpine wraith]

ST is quite cut and dry

[west tide]

how do i look like a chad in aoe

[plush roost]

It plays the same as tww sub without flag, and DF sub without dust tldr

[alpine wraith]

not really even in st you can maybe sneak in some extra dmg using dances before phasing or double dancing some phases etc

[real rain]

imporant question, is sub good for leveling 😄

[west tide]

is it just apex coup

[alpine wraith]

get many coup storm bp storm coupbp

brrr

oh and also when all mobs are alive

[drifting hamlet]

is /cancelaura Ancient Arts in SD+sectech macro still recommended or not necessary anymore with recent bug fixes?

[west tide]

honestly not being able to stealth between packs cause sdance is still goin annoying…

[hazy breach]

Not necessary

[hazy breach]

You can macro /cancelaura Shadow Dance into your stealth

[drifting hamlet]

thx Eleem

[west tide]

yooo truee

[tribal vortex]

Do we use a macro for SS backstab? Or just adjust bars ?

[alpine wraith]

i never used that one but some people do

[outer cloak]

which darkmoon is worth using atm

[alpine wraith]

all are pretty weak but if you have plenty of gold get the agi one

we are using hunt on weapon so maybe use that one

[slate fable]

at the risk of asking the same question as someone previously, in aoe packs of like 5-6+ do we minmax with the apex talent still with BP or do we just send finishers as normal?
I know the guide says at max 3 targets but is there a noticeable dps loss in doing it on higher target counts as well?

[alpine wraith]

the higher the count the less dmg

[placid crown]

How do I confront these 2 informations ?

[alpine wraith]

as you are using strikes mainly to apexxmax

and using storm is better as you get more cp

and more apex procs in the long run from getting those extra cp

[hazy breach]

Theyre not conflicting

Scroll down

[slate fable]

thats what i thought, just wanted to confirm for my own sanity lol

[alpine wraith]

ergo using 4 or 5 sht to cap cp vs only using 3-2 or none

[unreal dock]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

maybe if you are running extra haste and wft you can kinda see if you cap sht

and use some maxx but it is weird and i dont recommend trying to min max that

[placid crown]

Well i dont get if i have to strike or storm if i have 3 targets

as one guide says strike if you have 1 or 2 or 3 targets

[alpine wraith]

you can choose

[placid crown]

and the other guide says storm at 3 targets

[swift tinsel]

One is the baseline, the other is optional

[hazy breach]

If only the guides clearly explained this elsewhere

[placid crown]

not clear to me

[placid crown]

yeah, not clear if this info takes the advantage on the other one

[hazy breach]

This section talks about optional ways to increase your damage or reliability. You don't need to do these optimizations when learning, but you might want to take a look once you feel comfortable with the rotation basics.

[fleet acorn]

midnight lore hunter was auto added - the tattered page

[placid crown]

?

[warm marlin]

alright deploy deploy deploy

warmode on we're killing the brokies with our level 90s

[placid crown]

I mean i only play sub for some time now so yes i want to learn these optimizations

[alpine wraith]

yea remember to get honor for hc week

you are grasping at straws basically at 3 targets you can choose what to do

[west tide]

honor capped at 4k 🙁

[alpine wraith]

strike apexxmax or storm and use things

[alpine wraith]

you buy the new blood gem thingy

[west tide]

do both bro at 3 targets omggg

[alpine wraith]

will need 4 of them unless you want to use gold to buy them

[west tide]

i didnt buy it i thought it was an old gem

i wasnt sure

ill buy them

[alpine wraith]

i will likely buy them because this weekend is poe release

[west tide]

not sure what i want to do tonight pvp max in bgs or delvemaxx

[alpine wraith]

veteran week as in release week maybe they put the 15k honor back

[tribal vortex]

the apexmax thing is only when you have 5 stacks and then up to 3 targets. So in general in 3 targets you storm but if the condions are met you can SS

[lilac stag]

Got all the engineering discoveries before the poors broke the server.

[jaunty heath]

is it toxic camp starting location in warmode as 90 😄

[west tide]

starting disinfo campaigns in the general chat to confuse the lvl 80s

[placid crown]

ok thank you, and in these conditions, you use the clone buff for evis or black powder ?

[west tide]

where we camping

[grand wyvern]

it's classist

[tepid trellis]

no, kill the brokies

[west tide]

ill be at the first quest of zulaman

let them know we in the jungle now baby

this is NOT eversong!!!

im da loa of griefing

[alpine wraith]

did prices increase a lot?

[lilac stag]

You could do a recycle shuffle to discover with max recycling and make about 5k every 200 crafts

[alpine wraith]

oh i didnt know about that one

[stuck dune]

Hacha what’s this about honor? Gets you some gear?

[tribal vortex]

If I am not mistaken evis

[hazy breach]

No BP

[stuck dune]

How are you guys tracking ST stacks and coup? Default options or addon?

[limpid sage]

Evis isn’t cleaved anymore

[alpine wraith]

yea it is mainly to get sockets for champ gear on hc week

nothing crazy but still decent

[stuck dune]

Ahh ty

[hazy breach]

For the most part addons cant really do much that the default cant for these things

[alpine wraith]

pvp gear you can socket champ ilvl you will replace it when m+ releases but still good for first week

[stuck dune]

Eleem is it just weak auras again?

[hazy breach]

What

[stuck dune]

The addon to track

[hazy breach]

Just use the cooldown manager

[stuck dune]

AH kk so default has it

[hazy breach]

I literally just said addons do pretty much the exact same thing the cooldown manager does

[stuck dune]

I read you wrong I’m sorry

[hazy breach]

np

[stuck dune]

What about the apex

[wispy pebble]

Apex isnt trackable. But you have an effect on your UI when it triggers

[stuck dune]

Yeah someone said you can turn something up that makes it more obvious?

[wispy pebble]

yea spell alert opacity

[stuck dune]

Sick, tysm for info

[placid crown]

But do you need to track coup if you can macro it with black powder ? For St stacks, with basic wow ui

[wispy pebble]

because the blizz employee made then thing black when half the dungeons are dark 🙂

[stuck dune]

Coup can be macrod? Thad be useful

[fallow nimbus]

Yeah, it should have some grey or white highlights here and there

[stuck dune]

I feel like with proper ai, single button assist can totally handle sub rogue haha

[placid crown]

yes with black powder, then it will cast coup if it's available, else black powder

[stuck dune]

Ah I just came back to game I though coup was an evis modifier

[placid crown]

it is

[stuck dune]

So for both

Both macrod

[placid crown]

no

[hazy breach]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

You cannot track the apex talents Ancient Arts through the cooldown manager. However they do show up via the ingame like THIS. If you cannot see them you must go
into your settings and increase your Spell Alert Opacity

[placid crown]

in single target you evis, or you coup (evis with 4 stacks of ascending blade or whetever si the english name), but it's done automatically by pressing evis because coup is just an upgraded evis

and in aoe, you use black powder instead of evis, but when coup is available, you evis, to not cast an evis but the coup

[stuck dune]

Ohh so the macro will evis for you in situations you are bping.. via the macro

[placid crown]

yeah

[stuck dune]

Got it bro thanks for the explanation

[placid crown]

it will evis only when coup is available, it means it will coup, not evis

then you dont need to track the buff

unless it's necessary to cast coups only under dance

but i dont know if it's necessary for minmax

[stuck dune]

How long does it last for when it procs

[hazy breach]

Infinite

[jaunty heath]

there are welcome party groups forming in eversong kek

[stuck dune]

You’re saying if it procs and dance is off cd in like a few secs

[placid crown]

infinite ? isnt it like 15sec ?

[hazy breach]

Escalating Blade (ie coup stacks) do not have a duration

[stuck dune]

Like if coup procs and shadowblades dance is coming up it would maybe be a max to hold it a sec

Prolly a dps loss for me I’ll just die looking at all of this

[hazy breach]

In dummy scenarios its +-0

But for example if youre hitting a boss and an add spawns soon that you need to burst down, then it would be benefitial to hold

[stuck dune]

Got you

They need to rework DM seems like you don’t even rotate spells anymore

[left ledge]

btw to what extent is forcing apex in dance applied

(in ST)

[hazy breach]

Not at all

[left ledge]

is it literally highest prio

oh ok

[hazy breach]

or well

Depends on what you mean by forcing

Like pooling a bunch of sht stacks before?

[left ledge]

no

just in the dance

[alpine wraith]

at most you hold like 3-4 secs

if you procced coup outside

[left ledge]

lets say you finish and you refill but can proc it again with a strike

you will just keep going through that loop?

[hazy breach]

yes

If you can proc it and its not up, proc it

[left ledge]

ok, guess that beats getting an extra finisher in dance that isnt buffed

[stuck dune]

Ur talking about the shadow strike during max combos right

To proc it

[left ledge]

yes

[stuck dune]

On 1-3 Tate

Targ

Kk

[left ledge]

well specifically ST but yes i think its under 3 targets

or something like that

[stuck dune]

Yaa

[left ledge]

3 or less

[pearl swan]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[calm smelt]

sup guys, couldnt find a definitive answer in here but i might have just missed it, is there preferred spec for m+ and a preferred spec for raid? or is it just play what you want?

[stuck arrow]

We'll tell you after the major tuning pass that happens before the content comes out in 2 weeks.

[astral axle]

play whats fun for now, best part of early expac :)

[calm smelt]

got it, thanks guys

[stuck arrow]

Outside of that... You'll still be able to complete all the content regardless even if your spec is bad.

Unless you're like a RWF type player - chances are it's not your spec limiting you.

[placid crown]

And so.... the thing with strike instead of free finisher.... Not worth to do same with storm in multi targets ?

[calm smelt]

sorry i might have worded it wrong, its more that im extremely new to rogue/pve so i want any advantage i can get haha

[stuck arrow]

Even more the case then to play what's fun.

If it's fun you'll learn more and get better.

Difference between top percentile logs and bottom percentile logs on most classes is higher than individual class balance in most cases.

[lilac stag]

Just don’t play deathstalker

[astral axle]

Or Arms warrior

[alpine wraith]

feral is kinda cool tho

[brisk onyx]

cursed talent

[alpine wraith]

you go flicker mode

[stuck arrow]

Even still - top percentile arms is out pacing bottom 10th percentile havoc which is the best performing spec at the lowest percentile of logs.

[torpid echo]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[stuck arrow]

Also Arms only has like 20 logs over the last several beta patches. Which like. Take with a grain of salt. Very possible a large number of those are just generally mediocre to poor players.

[devout jackal]

Pre patch/beta sims mental gymnastics lmao

[fading whale]

is it bug that sometimes sec doesnt refund with apex

[plush roost]

The chinese arms one trick was doing comparable st to post nerf outlaw. Then they nerfed arms 3 times in a row

W

[hazy breach]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

While Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[plush roost]

Arms just in the dirt unlucky

[astral axle]

And I mean even if it gets an aura buff

Design wise arms just needs god

colossus arms presses cleave in st at higher prio than pressing execute

neat

[dire ravine]

Former feral player. They took all spirit and complexity out of the spec. Thats why I’m here now 😂

[bleak night]

yeah that definitely isnt a complaint you see here

[plush roost]

Aura 20% execute buff and heroic strike buff

[bleak night]

[plush roost]

Then maybe it competes

[hazy breach]

Giga buff arms to fotm since nobody has prepared for it

[astral axle]

[plush roost]

Whats wild is a 20% aura buff is like a 13k st buff XD

[tidal marsh]

80% aura buff inc

[alpine wraith]

do it the deathstalker way

double triple then double some talents

now you can execute from 60% hp

[swift tinsel]

But it’s tuned like Fatal Intent so it’s basically just doubling your instant poison damage

[chrome palm]

Have you opened your cdm as sub yet

[alpine wraith]

i still find funny they just natty buffed deathstalker for sub by like 65%

still ass

and singular broken with lots of things for a long while too

[dire ravine]

Honestly just been trying to ignore it as much as possible. I really enjoyed the tracking the game had instilled previously- this version stinks.

[swift tinsel]

Judging from the apex questions lately it’s the most complex spec in the game

[unreal musk]

in SD if i have 6cp but 4 stacks of shadow techniques, should i farm an extra stack to proc apex or not worth it?

[chrome palm]

a lot of the complexity of the spec is basically just using macros for dance and the apex optimizations

its way more nitpicky than like the old gameplay which was just generally more complex

like maybe

[dire ravine]

I felt like I needed a PhD to play the previous sub iteration. Honestly this is much more inviting.

[chrome palm]

someone finds some interesting optimizations aruond like secret technique cd or timing with dance idk

have you tried outlaw?

it has more of what you might consider like "standard" optimizations

i find it pretty fun outside of the whole energy problem

[swift tinsel]

No

It’s only something you should do if you meet the conditions, not try to game the conditions

[edgy star]

Did they decide find weakness isn't important enough to track? o_0

[dire ravine]

Am I a lost cause to say that trickster feels like it plays itself mostly?

[swift tinsel]

If you have enough cp to finish but not enough sht to force apex, just evisc

[swift tinsel]

It kinda does

[swift tinsel]

It’s up when it needs to be

So it doesn’t really pay to track it

[unreal musk]

and what if SD have 2 sec left and 3-4 stack should i try to force apex to double evis? or just send

cuz in my sim it shows double evis at the end of SD but i dont always get apex at the end of SD on dummy

[lilac stag]

If they Giga buff arms in current state, it’d be the equivalent of Giga buffing death stalker without fixing the mark

[hazy breach]

ye

Sounds like something they would do does it not?

[lilac stag]

[swift tinsel]

Use the abilities you have the cp/sht for

If they don’t satisfy the conditions you don’t strike

[unreal musk]

alrightt thanks:)

[swift tinsel]

With how sht are sometimes you run out towards the end of dance

So it’s not always doable

[dire ravine]

Always 🙁

[swift tinsel]

It’s fun to have moment-to-moment decisions like that

And honestly I’m pretty fine with ignoring cp during dance and using ShT as the ‘primary’ resource

Like having a special resource just for dance

Since energy is w/e and we were basically getting mostly to full cp per strike anyways

[rancid sierra]

Has anyone ever seen the simc problem where the string is saying youre wearing gear that you dont even have?

Like typing /simc and copying the string, when i paste it into raid bots the gear isnt even what I have

[chrome palm]

I just cover my energy bar with a dance bar

[bleak night]

wait

i steal that

[swift tinsel]

I tried using bars for stuff like dance, sod, blades etc but I just vibe with icons more

Maybe I do one icon-sized combo point and have it change color based on number

Then cover it with dance icon

[maiden oar]

wonder what its like to just have a number

[idle aurora]

Can someone clarify something for me

[maiden oar]

no bar no icon

[lilac stag]

Every post of my arc setup shows this.

[bleak night]

i try not to look

its so bright it scares me

[idle aurora]

So. If under 3 targets, and at full combo points, and we don’t have ancient arts we use builder again to get ancient arts?

[idle aurora]

Oh dang that’s a nice setup

[west tide]

oooo i like that sht cp

i just have to stare at my buff 🙄

[lilac stag]

Very easy (for me) to quickly see the important stuff for dance.

[west tide]

yeah i like that a lot

i will suggest this to higher powers to see if it can get into aui..

[idle aurora]

What are you using to make that?

[lilac stag]

It’s all done in arc

[swift tinsel]

The 1-5 sht with the 5th being a diff color is so nice for apex

[idle aurora]

Oh I use arc

[swift tinsel]

Makes maxing a breeze

[idle aurora]

Was that hard to make scath?

Mine isn’t as nice XD

[lilac stag]

I have a design degree so it’s something I enjoy doing. Just had to figure out what I could do in arc

[idle aurora]

How did you get the 14th bar to change color on shadow

I can make the dance bar

[lilac stag]

It’s just an assigned threshold

[idle aurora]

Ah

Ok

[west tide]

i need that so bad

im on aui though

imagine we had weakauras

[chrome palm]

Aui is very close to what I had with weak auras

The only differences personally are: the first dance tracking, thousand cuts estimating, and some look and feel things

[native falcon]

This was made with arcui?

[stuck arrow]

I'm waiting till I play the raid to see how I feel about the removal of WAs.

If they actually deliver on good mechanics and less need to track stuff, I'm sold. Some of the boss WAs you needed to complete certain fights over the years were just absolutely stupid.

[chrome palm]

It didn’t feel super different in testing but a lot less “you have a debuff and need to go do something with it” mechanics

[hazy breach]

Good fights didnt require weakauras, bad fights are still gonna be bad fights but probably more annoying without them

[idle aurora]

Eleem does this sound right?

So. If under 3 targets, and at full combo points, and we don’t have ancient arts we use builder again to get ancient arts?

[hazy breach]

Yes thats what the faq and the guides say

[idle aurora]

I’m really bad at reading comprehension lol

[warm marlin]

Eleem fighting the good fight today

[idle aurora]

I had to read it like 20 times before I verified

[swift tinsel]

I’ll make a video later

Short lil demonstration

[idle aurora]

That’s how I usually pick up rotations lol

I see it once and have it reading it is just mush

[swift tinsel]

Unless Dino has one already

[stuck arrow]

The worst imo were the ones that required like perfect spread over an area and stuff, and ramping damage as you complete raid wide mechanics. I can't help but think of Sanctum. Couple real bad offenders in that raid.

Like mythic Sylv without WAs would be nearly impossible.

[bleak night]

idk i did it last week without weakauras just fine

[rich canopy]

Ancient Arts is so janky, how much of a DPS loss is not intentionally using it?

[hazy breach]

If you mean the optimization around it, around 1.5% on ST

[thorny wagon]

@vale pine I wanted to sim Haranir with:

"race=Haranir"```
But i get Error Code 80. Are Haranir not implemented yet ?

[hazy breach]

Remove the "" around the second line

And dont use a capital H

[thorny wagon]

copy="haranir"
race=haranir

Like this ?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[thorny wagon]

Why is it different to all other races ?

[hazy breach]

Its not?

[hazy breach]

Ig you can use the ""

But its the capital H that gave you the errors

[thorny wagon]

I see, thank you

[dire jolt]

I actually enjoy the apex visually

[regal flax]

Yeah sub's apex is nice

[manic ice]

are sims for the 246 trinket reliable? its simming very low for me compared to my 230 trinkets

[arctic scroll]

how tf do i get haste

where s my 35 percent

[thorny wagon]

@hazy breach Do you know if the Crucible of Erratic Energies Trinket is correctly implemented in our sims ? For most other classes it seems to sim best but for my Sub Rogue its almost 2% behind other adventurer trinkets.

[hazy breach]

Theres no reason why it should be different than on any other class

Its not an on-use or anything (however those should be automated anyway)

[thorny wagon]

Hmm i guess the Withered Saptor's Paw is just better then even at way lower itemlevel.

[hazy breach]

You probably either have too little haste or too much crit then ig

[thorny wagon]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xjKnKphvPRmCyRMYWjzqkv

Must be the haste on the Saptor's Paw i guess.

[hazy breach]

Ye you have like 400 haste

[frozen bough]

You want 18% haste for Shadow Dance time with deepening shadows, better if it is not off a trinket proc/on use though.

[thorny wagon]

Yeah for the one extra global inside dance

[warm marlin]

im at exactly 196 haste for the first breakpoint and those trinkets are both simming better

the 246 trinket is probably just not great

220 lucky lynx locket the goat

[winter ice]

doesnt the 246 trinket only work in voidstorm?

[bleak night]

nah

[hollow plinth]

I would not assume that every trinket is implemented or bug free in simc

Especially if it's random overworld shit

Why did I click on sub channel

[warm marlin]

your greater spirit of aiding others led you here

also there doesn't appear to be any listed voidlust effect as a player buff in the html report

so very possible the trinket indeed just isnt implemented

[warm marlin]

doesnt work for sub, (other trinket there is an equal ilvl tank trinket as a control)

[frozen bough]

I found this chart on Maxroll, does this look correct? it seems like a crazy high amount of haste at lvl 90

[jagged hamlet]

no fucking way lol

[hazy breach]

Strange

I have no idea why it wouldnt work on sub specifically, does it work on other rogue specs

[frozen bough]

lol definitely wrong, on the same page they say 1% is ~44 rating, so before diminishing returns it is around 792 we want (we need more because returns start at 400 something)

[hazy breach]

What

30 x 44 = 1320

Which is exactly what theyre saying

[thorny wagon]

very strange

[hazy breach]

Now the diminishing return bit is pretty irrelevant and knowing it has no real impact

[warm marlin]

no for assa

i dont have an outlaw weapon

[jagged hamlet]

i thought that was a X value for roughly y% of stat

not DR

mybad

[rapid oasis]

why is backstab bugged during shadow dance? shadowstrike is replaced by backstab

[hazy breach]

Shadowstrike does not replace backstab

If it does its because you have a macro, or have strike in the same spot as backstab but on your stealthbar

[rapid oasis]

i have shadowstrike as 2 and backstab as 2 with no dance

[west tide]

guys i have too much haste now

raidbots wants to put me below 687...

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[west tide]

ya even in the min max sim it sits at like 17.35%

raidbots wants me to sit around there so its not taking into account human speed or wha..

[hazy breach]

What

[west tide]

ryld told me i need 687 haste for the 2nd benchmark for more room to be human..

[hazy breach]

You dont need 687 exactly no

[warm marlin]

well not exactly 687

[hazy breach]

But around 650-700 is recommended yes, because of latency and human stuff

[west tide]

i will have to fight with raidbots then..

can we force it to have a certain number

[hazy breach]

No

[warm marlin]

cata reforging my beloved...

[west tide]

come back to us

[dense coyote]

Is it better to not use the coup de grace / black powder macro in case I want to hold coup de grâce for a upcoming shadow dance ? Or does it not make much of a difference ?

Or I guess the more simplified version of my question is …. Is it more optimal to use that macro ? Or to not use it ?

[hazy breach]

In a dummy situation theyre the same

But for example do you really want to use coup when theres 2 mobs left at 5% hp right before a big pull?

[torpid echo]

220 chest still sims lower than my 170 zzzz xD

[hazy breach]

enchant the new one?

[dense coyote]

So technically it’s probably better to not have the macro just in case for these situations

[hazy breach]

That is my opinion ye

[dense coyote]

Thank you

[swift tinsel]

OBS hates my mic tonight wtf

made a lil 2min thing on apex shit tho

idk if you wanna preview it eleem but it might save a headache or two

[west tide]

oh wow it doesnt work what the heck!

[mortal crag]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tropic pier]

i miss my ding sound when combo points reset

any way to replicate that

[restive chasm]

Quick question or if someone can point me in the direction, where I can go read about it, but does haste affect Secret Tech?

[hazy breach]

The cooldown gets reduced by haste yes

[hazy breach]

Afaik no

[tropic pier]

or alternatively make shadow techniques glow above a certain number of stacks?

[hazy breach]

Nop

[tropic pier]

[swift tinsel]

Base cdm doesn't really have anything useful for alerts

at least not for us

[tropic pier]

with addons i mean, maybe there is something useful for that

[swift tinsel]

Arc UI can do some fun stuff

[shrewd lantern]

Pretty sure they removed addons capability

to conditional like that no?

[swift tinsel]

there's workarounds

[narrow comet]

would someone link me a Sub M+ build

just any

[tropic pier]

cause having to minmax resets + deciding when to build at max combo points is a bit fast paced atm

feels like outlaw

[swift tinsel]

which are likely to get removed at some point

with Arc you can do something like this and have a bar with X number of stacks, and have a specific numbered stack be a specific color

so I have the 5th stack of ShT purple and the counter shows how many total stacks

quick ez visual indicator

(will probs get bricked by blizz sooner than later)

[hazy breach]

Hey at least we won't get another fractillus

[plush roost]

i've seen enough buff sub @chrome palm

[swift tinsel]

it wouldn't be as bad if the cdm wasn't total shit ass

but the disparity of having something great like WA to this is just

whiplash

that also cuts off your balls

[hazy breach]

Even better for specs where stuff you want to track ain't included so you literally can't

Like assa apex

[swift tinsel]

yeah that part is so fucking dumb

[chrome palm]

GG

[swift tinsel]

why not just empty the bag on spells and let people pick

[chrome palm]

they gonna make me play spriest

[hazy breach]

Or subs apex when you're in a dark room

[swift tinsel]

this one actually made me yell multiple times

[inner prairie]

So I just have a question for clarification: Use Shadow Dances twice during Shadow Blades and then only use it when Secret Techniques is up and pool to have make sure you can use twice during Shadow Blades when it comes off CD?

And holding for Secret Techniques it should be the first global used after going into Shadow Dance right?

[swift tinsel]

Secret Technique*

[inner prairie]

Sorry brain is slow tonight.

[swift tinsel]

2x Dance within Blades, then use Dance with Secret Technique outside of Blades

can sometimes fit 2x sectechs in Blades with enough haste/lust/etc

[inner prairie]

Okay thats what I thought and was doing wrong I was just sending it. Bad habit from jsut open world.

[inner prairie]

And when outside of Blades you send Secret Technique as the first global in Dance right?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[dense coyote]

I really really love sub so far it feels so fun to play … I love how it’s just like big burst …. Pew pew

[terse dirge]

if building for raid are we pushing for the 35% haste even though most of the fights it looks like there are adds?

[swift tinsel]

35% haste was for prepatch

[dense coyote]

I thaught we only neeed like 18 percent haste ..?

[swift tinsel]

~18% for Midnight proper

[dense coyote]

Yeah that’s what I thought too …. Or at least that’s what I read on wowhead

[swift tinsel]

info also in the pins here

[terse dirge]

ah okay, ty i just was skimming through the faq to see what i missed since i didn't play prepatch and saw this.

i didnt see the below part.

[dense coyote]

I do have a question in regards to rotation if anyone can answer for me

If I just killed a pack and Slice and Dice is still up going into the next pull, is there any reason to re-enter stealth, or do I just open with Shadow Dance? (assuming I don’t have shadow blades available)

Also, if Shadow Blades is on cooldown and I’m approaching a new pack with Slice and Dice active, what’s the correct order —
Shuriken Storm → Shadow Dance → finisher,
or Shadow Dance → Shuriken Storm → finisher?

This hypothetical scenario would be multi targets ….

[short radish]

To answer questions 1, you get premed buff and potentially tfd if youre in stealth for long enough

Also master of shadows(?) If we take it

[narrow comet]

No ass left unfucked from gimpTauren

[dense coyote]

Wha is tfd?

[short radish]

The first dance

[dense coyote]

Okay

I gotta look at what those do thanks

[short radish]

No wokkas

Yeah always good to look over your talents

Just to know how it all interacts

[proper eagle]

Does sub has enough crit? Crit is lowest prior

[dire ravine]

This is really appealing to look at. I’m using a fuck ass bare bones profile. I need to upgrade

[alpine void]

when do we replace this fuckass cloak

just ilvl?

[narrow shadow]

Isn't it vers?

[olive remnant]

ppl say we need 240 ilvl to replace

[lyric reef]

Idk if anyone answered this but make sure you have 6/7 combo points going into ur dance so you can insta sec tec.

[crude radish]

is raidbots/simulationcraft updated for sub?

[vale pine]

yes

[haughty mural]

[fallow nimbus]

I sold my cloak haste gem

[thorny wagon]

Good Morning Fuu. Did you saw the Trinket thing ealryer ?

[scenic yarrow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[thorny wagon]

#subtlety message

[vale pine]

vessle is a strong option for now

[rain stratus]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jaunty heath]

this addon so nice, hopeuflly it will work in raid withnout lags

[thorny wagon]

It was about Crucible not simming right. It sims the same as a Tank Trinket. Something is off.

[vale pine]

ohh, interessting

[fleet acorn]

220+

[wheat cloak]

When it comes to optimising for apex talent, if you go into dance with max combo points and 5+ ShT, do you strike into sectec for ancient arts or just send sectec? and if you strike first, do you keep doing SS into finisher to constantly get ancient arts? (on less than 4 targets)

[tribal blade]

just send sectec

[cursive island]

hi guys, min maxing wise is M orc still bIS or mechagnome could be better in beggining of xpac?

[pastel quarry]

we're supposed to have sectec macro'd to dance and go into dance with full cp right? (in response to Kipo's question, trying to learn stuff also)

[fleet acorn]

Wanna Look cool or not ?

[wheat cloak]

o7

[tribal blade]

yes, but also have dance on a seperate keybind

[wheat cloak]

goblin is bis always

[tribal blade]

iirc mechagnome is bis for sub atm

but the diff is always minimal enough to just play whatever you want

[cursive island]

Sure, just wanted do know thanks

[thorny wagon]

This is for 224 Gear right now in ST.

[heady garden]

Is Haranir included in the sims

[thorny wagon]

Yeah one sec.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dknLGisTUgYYf5YMhx5njj

[heady garden]

hm, would have hoped the crit damage racial would benefit us more

[thorny wagon]

I mean we are missing a lot of stats so it will look different in myth gear.

[heady garden]

ah yeah ofc, this is 224

[thorny wagon]

Take it with a grain of salt

[velvet nova]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[wheat cloak]

oh also related to this, do we want to go into dance with the ancient arts buff

[limpid sage]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[wheat cloak]

ahh ty

[long sun]

crucible of erratic energies isn't showing the buff in my sim

like it has 0% uptime over a 3 min sim

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o5QjobYzyX3o39HCuuYDoY

[iron tartan]

How important is it for us to prioritize getting slice and dice off on the first pull of a dungeon? Should we instantly going to into an eviscerate to activate it?

[median nacelle]

strike, evis, vanish, strike into cds

on the next pulls you'll most likely have it up anyways

[iron tartan]

Thank you, thought that was the case

[neon pond]

is there a way to track Ancient Arts Buff ? Or will it get added to cdm?

[tribal blade]

don't need to cast vanish in a dungeon

[tribal blade]

you get a graphic on your screen when it procs

looks like WWs blackout kick proc

they might add it to tracked buffs in the future who knows

[neon pond]

Do I have to activate an option for that? because I am pretty sure I dont get a graphic or anything

[neon pond]

ty good sir!

[rancid sierra]

Are our trinket sims on raidbots correct? This saying these 224 trinkets are massively better than the 246 rep trinket?

[keen dome]

Is anybody else really struggling with Delves this season?

[limpid sage]

everything hits like a truck rn ye

[keen dome]

Without Brann to tell me to not step in that, I'm just stepping in everything?? And what do I do if there are webs?! how did Blizzard expect us to do this content.

[limpid sage]

haven't done delves on my rogue but on my sham I can't pull more than 3 mobs at a time

[keen dome]

Is it because you keep standing in that

[limpid sage]

oh different issue ig xd

perchance

[keen dome]

and because nobody is telling you (five minutes after the ability) to dodge?

[tepid trellis]

not sure that trinket work in raidbots yet

atleast it had 0% uptime last i checked

[limpid sage]

ye shindig wrote that above as well

[rancid sierra]

@tepid trellis I think you're correct, thank you

[honest saddle]

does fuu have a spreadsheet going?

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[muted kindle]

sorry if this is stupid, so during our dance windows we want to just cast sectec then bank the combo points till the dance window is over? or are we still spending during just trying to work out the apex talent

[tepid trellis]

you still spend

[knotty depot]

You spend once Ancient Arts is up for double finisher when playing Trickster right ?

More of a question for Stealthi tbh

[keen dome]

I assume the Conq variant of the PvP badge is going to be a good early pick for a trinket, assuming there's nothing better via M0 pre-raid?

[lilac stag]

#subtlety-faq

[keen dome]

Haste and big stat is pretty nice.

[median nacelle]

yeah, spaced out - can just storm cps back up

[vale pine]

The apex talent optimization is basically:

• Is shadow dance up? - ☑️ Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - ☑️ Yes
• Is ancient arts not up? - ☑️ Yes
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[hardy agate]

That would make a good command imho
!apex or sth

[vale pine]

sure

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization(Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts not up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[fleet acorn]

damn my gear is cooked

[fleet acorn]

theres better one

[keen dome]

okay but that's not an on-use trinket haha

[fleet acorn]

u dont need on use

[lilac pendant]

is there a way to put combo points on plate without addons?

[lilac stag]

No. It’s been attached to player uf for 10 years now or so

So install Platynator if you need the chaos that is CP on nameplates.

[mint swift]

Haven’t checked sub in a bit, are the clones still bugged to hell

[tepid trellis]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[tepid trellis]

take a look

[mint swift]

Oh boy

[tepid trellis]

ofc crossed over means fixed

[mint swift]

Ok so it’s fixed a bit but still broken overall

[lilac stag]

This makes me think I’m giving up drinking

[rancid sierra]

I wonder what hte drop rate of the saptors paw is? Is it delve specific?

[lilac stag]

Wowhead likely has details of what drops it

[vale pine]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=251782/withered-saptors-paw

[vale pine]

nice

[wheat cloak]

Is this correct for optimal damage in ST for our dance windows? I feel like ive asked alot but im finding it hard to get my head around xD sorry everyone

[lilac stag]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization(Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts not up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[lilac stag]

Two Button spec cooking wow players.

[cursive vapor]

Wait i thought it is braindead hella stupid fucking boring lame ass easy

[lilac stag]

According to YouTube & every feral, ret & dk reroll that lasted 2 weeks in here during beta

I love it. Blizz delivered on easier floor while making the ceiling still give people a brain aneurysm

[wild vine]

Its literally what I told the people in my guild saying theyve heard sub is the easiest melee now

"gotta wait for the cooks"

[lilac stag]

all for less ~1.5% dps

I’m going to love seeing people fire off coup with BP macro spam when the pack is dead and should have saved it for next back.

[hollow spear]

To be fair, there were more atrocious things than this for less gain

[lilac stag]

this one is fun

imo

get rid of the premed bug and the ST clone dmg only physical and we

[hollow spear]

There should be a bot that stalks people and if it finds them complaining about the pruning while at the same time using the BP macro, it should turn their discord name to a poopy brown

[finite hedge]

anyone know whats going on with fortify the runestones right now? Looks like the quest is available and the reward is there before the reset, but are the stones usable?

[wild vine]

Im untainted, I dont even know the bp macro

[lilac stag]

You can macro coup+BP and spam it and it will auto fire coup off for literally one button aoe spender

[vale pine]

thats confusing ^^

[wild vine]

Fam I was pure

Innocent

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-pam-beesley-jenna-fischer-corrupt-honest-gif-3454433

[grim vessel]

Can we still not shadowstrike on dance gcd?

[lilac stag]

Nope

[tepid raven]

Umm ackshully I’ll have you know you press 5 buttons in Single Target

[lilac stag]

that died a long time ago

[wheat cloak]

its just how my brain makes sense of things xD from what everyone else has said it seems correct

[grim vessel]

Trickster wants to dance sectech, but there are times like Blades window where you want a 2nd dance. Do you use shuriken macro to enter or just mash strike

[lilac stag]

still trying to play Arms?

[tepid raven]

Nope playing rogue this tier

[lilac stag]

he has returned!

[tepid raven]

(No one else in the guild does or can)

[lilac stag]

accurate

You and me buddy. 🤝

[grim vessel]

My guild tells me if I play rogue i have to show up consistently. I tell them 3% dr is for nerds

[tepid raven]

I will gladly take the perma raid spot

[lilac stag]

If you need to build. Shuriken. Finish, evis.

[grim vessel]

Everyone in our group that played rogue rerolled off of it because they said blizz hates them

[lilac stag]

optics sure are a thing

[dense coyote]

Question … for the first dance … does “staying out of combat “ mean only when you attack something or get hit by something ? Is that why it’s better to go into stealth in between pulls ?

Or …. Can you just shadow Dance into the next pack of mobs ….?

[lilac stag]

out of combat literally means you’re out of combat

[tepid raven]

If you can stealth it means you are able to get the first dance again

It’s not just not hitting

[lilac stag]

Is this the silver moon quest with the 4 factions?

[tepid raven]

So if you leave something to die to dots while walking to the next pack even if it takes 5-10 seconds your timer for the first dance only starts once the mobs are dead

[lilac stag]

@tepid raven what specs have you messed with so far?

[tepid raven]

Outlaw and sub

I did my beta testing on assa

[dense coyote]

Ok I guess I’m just trying to figure out the benefit to stealthing in between pulls …

Because w have shadow dance as sub is there a point beside like shrouding the party for stuff ?

[lilac stag]

really not much to test with it

[outer cloak]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[tepid raven]

Your shadow strike from stealth does a little extra damage and always fills your cp bar

I tend to just find it a little smoother at least

[dense coyote]

So how many targets do we use shadow strike from stealth and how many targets do we use Shuriken storm from stealth ?

[lilac stag]

I’m almost always shadow striking for teleport.

[tepid raven]

Ye that’s why I’d do it

If I was in the pack already you just SS from stealth tho

[dense coyote]

Ah okay I understand so it’s to get more damage uptime if you are far away for the teleport

Or if it’s like

… how many targets or less ?

[tulip light]

It rly doesn’t matter

[dense coyote]

Oh so there’s no optimal ability to open with based off how many targets it is ?

[tulip light]

Just open, we are talking one global here

[dense coyote]

One global matters to me

🤣 if it’s better or not

[dense coyote]

I’m just trying to figure this out 😭

[tulip light]

We need a command for the reloe min max post

[lilac stag]

We don’t

[tepid raven]

Just follow normal dps rotation 3+ to SS from stealth

If you are in the pack

[lilac stag]

In m+ its the rotation 3+

[tepid raven]

Otherwise use Strike for mobility

[lilac stag]

anyways. 7 weeks until nfl draft.

[tepid raven]

need Tate to fall to us frfr

[lilac stag]

I’d like a Crosby please so he and Caleb can continue their bromance

[violet palm]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[lilac pendant]

Did soemthing happened to deathstalker? why is not recommended now on launch

[wicked urchin]

apex talents pull trickster up

[lilac pendant]

I see, but a lot of not much?

As undead, deathstalker fits better haha

[keen dome]

Valeera is holding out on us

[lilac stag]

It’s significant by the time raiding starts and playing around mark is abysmal.

If you enjoy the RP go for it

[lilac pendant]

Sad

[vale pine]

banking supercharger is quite nice during leveling

just sending a dance before you fly off to the quest giver

[scarlet heath]

do you... cut yourself with it?

how does weapon on you blades that you inflict on your enemy increase YOUR speed and avoidace?

[swift tinsel]

Chronomancy

It’s a Slow spell so you move faster than them relatively

[tepid raven]

This is the big tech

Unfortunately I finished my 2nd rogue last night

[lilac stag]

I have to level ungabunga warrior at some point. I may do Hunter next though.

[vale pine]

whats the fastest way to level now

[lilac stag]

if you have aoe likely a delve

I’d get as much saved for turn ins (the delve quests) for 89. That’s just shit

[vale pine]

think they fixed the exp gain from low level delves

[lilac stag]

darn

[vale pine]

but unsure

i haven't tested, my gf did say delves did not give much exp

[sage ivy]

did they fix the delve quests giving a lot? the advice i saw was do every delve quest without turning them in, then just main campaign until level 88, then turn in the delve quests and go profession xp until 90

the delve quests gave like 100k xp last i saw

[lilac stag]

the quests are good. You could spam aoe certain delves for mob grinding xp

[spice lichen]

doesn't tell me how long servers will be down today on my homescreen. Does anyone know?

[vale pine]

i don't think there is downtime

[spice lichen]

on a tuesday? what is it, my birthday?

[sharp ravine]

Still 1m5+xp/hour

[tepid raven]

Doing the delves themselves gave me 1.5 levels from 80

And then gave me a full level to go from 88 to 90 (with crafting to supplement the last bit)

[lilac stag]

there usually isn’t downtime Tuesday after expansion.

[tepid raven]

So I think it’s still worth

[vale pine]

what delve are you spamming?

[topaz crow]

!talents

[vale pine]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[vale pine]

any of them should have talents

[topaz crow]

tyy ❤️

[vale pine]

ah, nice.
But i assume its not worth it to spam delves for exp instead of questing or doungeons

[ancient fiber]

is it possible to change the colour of the visual for ancient arts?

[swift tinsel]

Nope just the opacity

[ancient fiber]

where would the opacity option be

[sage ivy]

is there a good place to scream at blizz for not having cdm tracking for ancient arts and inevitability stacks

[swift tinsel]

If you search Spell Alert in your options it’ll show up

Otherwise it’s under Combat iirc

[ancient fiber]

cheers

[dense coyote]

We use black powder on how many targets ?

[swift tinsel]

2+

[dense coyote]

Ty

[arctic heart]

@fuu there was a macro before for stealth leaving dance, did you erase it?

@vale pine

[hard trellis]

anyone know how long maintenance is

[swift tinsel]

iirc it said just an hour

[idle aurora]

So our best m+ trinkets are 2 min cooldown trinkets rip

[swift tinsel]

didn't realize Gaze was a 2min

[arctic heart]

!macros

[idle aurora]

Do people use 2 on cooldown trinkets then?

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[swift tinsel]

typically one on-use one passive

if there's a good on-use

[idle aurora]

What if it’s a 2 min cd trinket?

What’s best way to play around it

[wintry heart]

Level 90 sub is extremely fun

[idle aurora]

Use another sec tec before doing a blades with trinket?

[hazy breach]

The raid trinket is from the first boss

[idle aurora]

Ooooo that’s extremely nice

[hazy breach]

So its not unavailable

[idle aurora]

For once

Transmitter was such a pita.

[broken seal]

Wait do we lost the 2 charges of shadow dance ?

[hazy breach]

The alnseer trinket is from the one boss raid which is allegedly mid boss difficulty, so that one's a bit more rough

[hazy breach]

No

It's still a talent

[broken seal]

oh yes i found it

and do you guys still play it ?

cause i copied the talent from the discord

and it seems not to be used

[swift tinsel]

The default builds should have it

[torn cedar]

is htere a way to make a mouseover SS-Kick macro? every way i tried seem to not work

[broken seal]

yes I agree. it just a bit strange that the talent build from this discord doesn't use it

(M+ trickster)

[swift tinsel]

wym

it has it

that build has Double Dance

[broken seal]

Im a bit drunk

i think

I used it, then I had a little bug. like one missing talent so I put it on a random passiv (the missing one had to be on the double dance)

sorry again

[ivory swallow]

So I've grabbed the build from wowhead and we don't even pick coup?

Because it's bugged GCD stuff?

[lilac stag]

wtf is going on in here the last 15 minutes

[ivory swallow]

HAHAHAH

[lilac stag]

pick a trickster build for wherever you’re trying to do

[twin surge]

i assume people are copying talents when not at max level and its bonking blizz import.. but thats my guess

[ivory swallow]

Yup you're right, I just got back to the game and did that

Still waking up sorry

[broken seal]

I think so

[astral axle]

with darkmoon buff gathering all the mobs while mounted in the shadowguard point delve and killing them with aoe got me about 2 1/2 bars of exp every time. it took about 10-15 minutes per "go" and you can right click your portrait after to select "leave delve"

idk i think it was definitely worth it and very fast

went from 87 to 90 in just about an hour and 15 minutes

but this also was on a tank alt with decent ilvl from last expansion so i guess that factors in

[dense coyote]

Im just doing all the quests

I’m boring lol

[limpid sage]

Not in a way that allows you to just press it once. You’ll always have to press it twice

[torn cedar]

Any way of making it so i don't have to keep the MO for it or?

[limpid sage]

with MO you mean mouseover right?

[torn cedar]

yea

just mouseover to step but not have to keep the track to make the kick land

[tulip gorge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limpid sage]

/target [@mouseover]
/cast [@mouseover, exists][] Shadowstep
/cast Kick

Should work?

You’ll have to press it in rapid succession though

[rancid sierra]

Is server maintenance cancelled? thje notification is gone since last night

[limpid sage]

Else you’ll use 2x shadowstep

Also it’ll kick your target if you miss it with your mouseover, but that’s as if you’d use [@mouseover,exists][] Kick anyway

[fleet acorn]

what is the best delve today to lvl up the delve lvl?

[dense coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/firehouse-subs-sub-sandwich-commercial-firehouse-gif-25189448

[limpid sage]

^ forgot to tag you

[shadow lance]

Can use a cast sequence also