subtlety

[tribal blade]

YOU'RE TROLLING

2 of these going on

the rank 1 enchants and gems suck

it's kinda wild

worse than r3 TWW stuff

[warm marlin]

how much is thalassian haste

[tribal blade]

like... 9? i think

[warm marlin]

old enchant from tww is 21 bro

[tribal blade]

yeah 9

that's nuts

[rich canopy]

Has anyone found a later quest with weapons?

[tribal blade]

i guess if i actually level up enchanting they get way better

[maiden oar]

what difficulty

[tribal blade]

R2 thal haste is 13

[maiden oar]

my man needs items when im done w renown

[warm marlin]

t7

healer valeera is crazy

u just tank everything

[tribal blade]

the orbs she drops are really easy to see it's nice

[maiden oar]

ok neat

which story variant is good

[warm marlin]

this delve, cages can be opened from stealth and it doesnt break

[maiden oar]

oh

[warm marlin]

then just fight guys at end

and reset

[maiden oar]

ok ty

[tribal blade]

half the delves have those true sight eyes

and it's fucking tilting

[warm marlin]

theres like 0 of them in that one

insane stealth delve no cap

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

[alpine ore]

is subt the most comfortable to level with atm?

[tribal blade]

probably yeah, being able to teleport to every mob from stealth with shadowstrike is amazing

[warm marlin]

i wouldnt run that delve with more than 3 ppl though

[maiden oar]

is there any minmax that is conclusively good besides the apex strike thing

[warm marlin]

the last boss kinda becomes bullethell

[maiden oar]

i havent been following past 2 weeks

[tribal blade]

charrend had a few things he was doing

[warm marlin]

hold 2nd dance in blades to catch sectec on certain haste levels

[maiden oar]

ah

do we still 1:40 blades

or is that done

[warm marlin]

think so

i too am slacker

[maiden oar]

i miss 90s hehe

[tribal blade]

maybe 1 day they'll put sectec on cdr again

[maiden oar]

charges maybe coming

[tribal blade]

or do the shots thing fuu wants

yeah

[maiden oar]

cdm hints at it

[tribal blade]

it does

[cursive vapor]

thats a small spec feature I still enjoy so much

[maiden oar]

i leveled on outlaw and i might level my 2nd guy on outlaw

[tribal blade]

it was insanely good when i was farming mechagon stuff for decor

[maiden oar]

but thtats just to build muscle memory since im not gonna get an excuse to play it in content

[tribal blade]

i was just boucing around mobs nonstop and stealing everything

[maiden oar]

doing the 123 (1 cp 2+ dice 3 oppo stacks = press ss) thing requires rewiring of brain

ok maybe roingus will be subtlety rogye

https://tenor.com/view/gang-roingus-gang-roingus-chungus-meme-gif-19827832

[tribal blade]

oh yeah outlaw has more thinky going on

grapple is also really good movement

[maiden oar]

anyone here look @ dungeon journals for the final bosses

[tribal blade]

i could read them but i wouldn't be able to picture it lol

[maiden oar]

i think potential 9/9 sub tier maybe assa on the final march on queldenas boss

[chrome palm]

https://tenor.com/view/skyrim-tesv-elder-scroll-flashbang-gif-12592671319512924094

[maiden oar]

midnight falls looks so good

it has basically every mechanic i was sad about never experiencing due to being a new wow player in it

[chrome palm]

Fyrakk seeds and what else

[maiden oar]

and might be basically st (ive never had a chance to fight an actually hard st boss yet)

denathrius dimensions

or maybe i misread the dawn dusk shard thing and theres adds u need to hit often idk

[blazing dawn]

Not a single boss this tier is pure ST

[maiden oar]

ok yeah u hit the one color crystal

hmm maybe not sin execute guy

but the final phase looks fhn

w the seeds and shields and dimensions

[chrome palm]

It could be an st fight we’ll see

Having the last boss be the st dance fight would be cool

[maiden oar]

the top of the journal

[maiden oar]

thats what i want as a xiv refugee

[warm marlin]

isnt there footage of it getting pulled

[maiden oar]

it didnt look like adds in the ability section

but the short journal summary makes it look like adds

[chrome palm]

No one got past the very start

[maiden oar]

p3 looks insanely good though

[chrome palm]

And the rwf guilds were still practicing on beloren probably

[maiden oar]

i am insanely excited

[chrome palm]

Yeah but

Kinda need to see the fight

[maiden oar]

it could be spread cleave yes

[chrome palm]

For all we know the boss might fly up in the sky or somethjng

[maiden oar]

or some other anti sub design

[chrome palm]

Is this wowhead?

[maiden oar]

some wiki idk

says same thing in game

just not at pc rn

petting cat

[chrome palm]

Big if true

[maiden oar]

either way i think its mostly st

[onyx flame]

Is it just me or do the new Dungeons feel a little unfriendly towards melee?

[keen dome]

I'm glad Blizz is making everyone group wih a rogue to do content this expanison. In Delves.

[chrome palm]

if blizzard gives her a smoke bomb curio im going to lose my mind

[keen dome]

haha

[lean sigil]

do we "pool" full cp since we use dance on full CP into sec with trickster? lets say its 3 sec left i have full cp, do i evis and build again (will ofc have cds up and not used for a few extra sec) of cds up or do i hold my cp for dance for lets say 3 sec?

[chrome palm]

you can backstab here, just make sure you have enough energy to cast secret technique immediately off cooldown

[astral briar]

how are you guys leveling after campaign? it feels like everything is dead slow

[lean sigil]

so just keep backstabing at full cp?

[chrome palm]

in the scenario you talked about i believe so

[hollow spear]

Yeah, I sometimes catch myself not having enough

Needs some getting used to

[chrome palm]

master of shadow should really be instant!

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[lean sigil]

morning fuu, maybe you can have a look at my question just above?

[sullen hare]

gm fuu

[south zenith]

Mornin'

[keen dome]

good morning, Fuu

[sullen hare]

so yeah you can chug out a couple backstabs at full points and it's not a big deal

[lean sigil]

perfect ty!

[sullen hare]

just don't spam it so hard you burn up your whole energy bar by the time sectec cd comes up

because backstab damage basically doesn't matter

[maiden oar]

im doing every side quest for renown

once im done w that im not sure but i figure its probably good to do rn

[lean sigil]

is raidbots up to date for rogue?

sims old reshi above 224 back

[hollow spear]

But delays are thematic for sub!

[tribal blade]

don't do WQs until you're 90 because they scale with lvl

[supple pawn]

how many SD macros do we need?

[tribal blade]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[supple pawn]

ty

[hollow spear]

What's the latest on the coup powder macro? I believe Charr said not apexing coup was criminal.

[limpid sage]

did you guys lvl deathstalker or trickster?

[cursive vapor]

#subtlety message

[hollow spear]

I think if you switch to deathstalker, you'll download a virus

[south kernel]

wait so ur saying its a gain to hold coup forapex?

[hollow spear]

Can't recommend doing that

[torn tide]

should i be caring about stats much rn?

[hollow spear]

You'd have to ask Charr, but he said it might be a gain in aoe scenarios (where this macro would be used)

[south kernel]

yea i get u

[hollow spear]

Since you'll replace all your gear in no time, it doesn't matter. The only thing is maybe get enough haste, but not sure if the effort is even worth it.

[south kernel]

it'd be fun if its the case

atleast add more brain power to aoe

[torn tide]

ah so just wait till heroic/mythic gear then

[south kernel]

i just hope they tune that optimization of ignoring apex refund

god it fells horrid to do

[limpid sage]

just feels way faster with deathstalker and when I sim trickster is like 10% behind on pure ST

donno if it's because of the missing talents

[hollow spear]

I was actually wondering about that optimisation. Let's say you're at 5 sht stacks and dance + sectec come up. Do you go dance sectec or do you go dance strike?

Who cares about sims for leveling

[supple pawn]

is sub more red or purple coded

[tribal blade]

trickster is better on live than prepatch because with the apex finishers gained more value

[hollow spear]

Enemies die before tfd is even over

[south kernel]

i think u always dance tech

[tribal blade]

wait what we're not ignoring apex refunds unless there was some brand new cursed tech i don't know

[south kernel]

its way mroe damage

[south kernel]

we do no ?

well

in dance if u have enough stacks to reproc apex

u shadowstrike again

[tribal blade]

oh yeah

[south kernel]

in ST only

but it feels so fucking bad i dont wanna do it

i wonder whats teh % gain on that

[tribal blade]

it's alright, kinda weird because it breaks a hard rule of playing rogue

[south kernel]

cos if its sub 1% im skipping it

not only weird its horrid

[tribal blade]

iirc it's ~1.5%

[south kernel]

i fucking hate u

could have removed a 1 from there

and lied to me

so i would have been happy

[tribal blade]

haha have to hate on the TCs in here then

[supple pawn]

is there any way/addon to make macros change icon when you get a proc?

[tribal blade]

i think 1.5% is not enough where you will be incredibly behind on dps if you don't do it

[south kernel]

darn u fuu

DARN YOU

[south kernel]

yea its true i might just ignore it

still gotta see how criminal it is to not apex coup in aoe and st

[tribal blade]

hopefully i got the number right, but yeah it's nothing crazy

[south kernel]

for now imma jsut ignore it till the tuning patch

[tribal blade]

it's probably better if it stays like this to add some skill expression to the spec

[south kernel]

by denying the combo point reset?

idk man it feels bad af

wasnt it enough that i dont get my shotgun sounds anymore

btw is there anyway to add that back?

shotgun sound on reset

[fleet wharf]

!apex

[tribal blade]

not that i know of no

i miss the refund sound WA i had, but i REALLY miss my coup WA

[south kernel]

the coup wa?

what did that one do

[tribal blade]

i made my own custom one

basically made it so i never ever missed coup proccing

sound + a pretty big icon direcly in the middle of my screen

[south kernel]

LMAO

i mean now u will jsut cast it when u press finishers

with the bp macro

[hollow spear]

Which is a loss, apparently

I unbound the macro

And everyone complaining about not enough buttons should do, too

[south kernel]

any rough estimate?

and this is mainly aoe no?

cos in st u never wanna hold evis so u perma send

[limpid sage]

ahhhh so first when you got apex talents it gets better than deathstalker?

[tribal blade]

should yeah

[hollow spear]

Only aoe

[south kernel]

yea figures

[hollow spear]

But the macro is coup powder

So it doesn't affect st anyways

[south kernel]

ye

[rancid sierra]

so per the guide.. you dont ever coup in AOE with the nimble flurry cleave heor talent?

[rancid sierra]

@tepid trellis yikes, sorry

I looked before i typed too. Must have missed.

[sly shore]

why evis before dance

in opener

[tepid trellis]

SnD

[sly shore]

ofc

[tepid trellis]

but its more or less neutral

like always

[sly shore]

yeah

[lean sigil]

but you enter dance on 0 cp in opener?

thought we were supposed to use dance/sec macro and enter at full cp?

[tepid trellis]

thats the general rule yes

[lean sigil]

but not in opener?

[tepid trellis]

like i said above it doesent really matter which way you do it

[limpid sage]

how come we don't vanish opener?

also shuriken storm tech isn't better anymore or?

[tepid trellis]

storm is only for DS

[limpid sage]

oh dang

[lean sigil]

but if you do it like the above pic we miss out on abit of dance? since we cant cast shadowstrike as fast as we can cast sec?

[tepid trellis]

likely that it doesent like delaying dance anymore than it already does

[tepid trellis]

you can do them just as fast, if you dont use macro for strike

[tribal blade]

which do you prefer personally

[tepid trellis]

i skip evis

[tribal blade]

i've been doing the same

it feels way less clunkier

[fiery fog]

quick question about ancient arts
do i strike after a cp reset as well if i have 5+ sht stacks?

or do i evis twice

[tepid trellis]

strike

[tulip light]

are there some weird interaction with apex and certain spells? i notice it doesnt refund cp if i use stech as finisher. also if im at full cp with apex procc and press dance my cp just disappear?

[tepid trellis]

i think premed might still block cp refunds not sure tho

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[tepid trellis]

yeh

[tulip light]

meeh... ty

[tepid trellis]

just tried to replicate your cp missing cant say that i can make that happen

u sure you aint got some dance+sectech macro or smth

[hazy breach]

The cp doesnt disappear

Its just the refund buff that disappears

[tepid trellis]

doesent for me

or what do you mean

[hazy breach]

If you press a finisher with premed and apex up the apex gets cancelled no?

[tepid trellis]

ah its just the premed bug he was purely thinking off

[hazy breach]

Yeah at first glance it looks like youre just losing cp since your apex talent is gone and you dont get any refunds

But its just the apex buff thats getting cancelled (for some reason)

[tribal blade]

definitely does sadly

[tulip light]

Weird. I will check later on dummies thx guys

[full lagoon]

ah hell nah they put homophobic mobs in the game

[lilac stag]

Has anyone tested WM clone dmg on live?

[hazy breach]

Ye its fixed

[grand galleon]

guys, apex talent not showing procs (dark doritos) - is it disabled somewhere by default?

[lilac stag]

need to be 90, it's default is on

opacity likely changed at somepoint for something else

[swift tinsel]

Check Spell Alert Opacity

[grand galleon]

this is it, thank you!

[lilac stag]

heh the next !botcommand

[swift tinsel]

lol not a bad idea

Alright coffee is brewing time to hit 300 fishing

[lilac stag]

trying to hit 90. finally have a moment of peace. all the dogs and cats fed

[swift tinsel]

Hell yeah

[lilac stag]

i want to get the warrior over to start smithing stuff

[swift tinsel]

Had to do some sojourn quests to finish it off, even with a ton of gathering xp it still took 1.5 levels after finishing campaign to hit 90

[swift tinsel]

There’s an intro skip to get to Silvermoon immediately which is nice

I have my prof alts there already lol

[lilac stag]

Campaign first though no?

[swift tinsel]

You get the quest to find the image of liadrin, talk to it, then select skip to go directly to silvermoon

[lilac stag]

Sorry. I meant campaign needs to be done first on main no?

[swift tinsel]

Oh, I would assume so

I didn’t try until my rogue was 90

[swift tinsel]

Voidstorm takes like an hour it’s super short

[lyric bough]

I've done a good handful of heroics now, with another random rogue and really feels like assassination is doing alot better, at least at 220ilvl

Anyone else find the same?

[swift tinsel]

sub superiority down with the bleedy bois

[graceful crown]

until 17th after balance changes, its time to talk

🫂

[swift tinsel]

I'm having a real good time with apex in dungeons so I'm fine not playing sin

big boom bp blastin'

[keen dome]

Sub is a lotta fun, ye

[lyric bough]

Unless I'm doing something wrong, I feel sub does nothing outside of shadow dance. Feels like auto attacking compared to other classes

[swift tinsel]

that's how it works

[lyric bough]

Ok

[limpid sage]

I don't get how the last apex talent is a dmg increase

[lyric bough]

Haven't played rogue since legion when they fucked it

[limpid sage]

doesn't it just reduce your chance of making extra clones on your generators?

[swift tinsel]

it lets your finishers spawn clones

instead of just builders

which is very strong

[keen dome]

It's effectively giving you control over it, to some extent.

Kinda? I guess.

But it's letting a finisher consume 5 which will spawn the clone

[limpid sage]

oh so it makes finishers count as generators as well?

[swift tinsel]

it takes the refund portion and counts it as 'Expending' in the first apex node to spawn clones

which is why I'm thinking they used that word in both apex 1 and apex 3

'attacks that expend Shadow Techniques' and 'your next damaging finishing move will expend them'

continuity

[keen dome]

Yeah. It's not the clearest way to write it but they tried to be consistent

[limpid sage]

ah okay

I thought this was the case when the apex was released but I remember someone saying that it was just builders

I also saw Eleem write something about a cancelaura macro. Is it because Sectec Ancient Arts clones only trigger part of the spell?

[swift tinsel]

yeah but we dont do that anymore

[limpid sage]

gotcha

[plush roost]

They fixed apex 2 so conserving sht isnt a problem

So no more cancel aura

Only thing people cancelaura is Apex DN in aoe, but then youd be playing ds hehe

[limpid sage]

Does each individual Sectec clone proc apex 1?

[plush roost]

Procs apex 2 yes

So its 2 sht, or 4 in dance from shadoe craft

Apex another 1/2

Its kindof like

The s3 df tier set

If u played then

Except instead of it being just 2cp per clone, its now sht

[limpid sage]

I didn't D: I started sub in LoU

I guess what I'm confused about is the wording of the Apex talents

[plush roost]

Yeah the wording needs work xd

But essentially

[limpid sage]

because Apex 3 would lead me to believe each clone from Sectec procs Apex 1, since clones can also do the Coup late refund thing

[plush roost]

20% chance (with replicating) per sht used to spawn clone on a builder. Those clones generate 1(2 with shadowcraft) sht when they do damage. If you have excess sht (5+) you will empower your next finisher to use them (20% shtx5) to spawn a clone and copy that finisher

[limpid sage]

except if it's an onCast hook

[plush roost]

The sec tec clones SHOULD but they are currently bugged

[limpid sage]

Ya okay that makes sense

[plush roost]

Who knows when that gets fixed

[limpid sage]

before raid release surely

[plush roost]

And if premeditation buff is up, your apex disabled, similar to how you couldnt refund shadowcraft in tww during premed

Must have used similar code omegaLOL

[limpid sage]

...

wait so how does Dance->Sectec work

[plush roost]

Yeah spec has like 5 negative impacting bugs

Unlucky

U just dont proc your apex on sec tec

Is nbd

It was neutral to cancel aura anywah

The bug just forces cancelaura

Xd

[limpid sage]

was that just cancelaura'ing built into sectec or was it with a +5 ShT condition?

worded that weirdly but does it make sense? xd

[lean sigil]

!sim

anyone know is raidbots is up to date for rogues?

[swift tinsel]

is it worth to force an apex proc for coup to flurry

[limpid sage]

like force apex 3 on coup?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

since they fixed the bug and coup clones flurry

[limpid sage]

I was wondering that as well

I'd imagine so

[swift tinsel]

would assume so since it trucks

but also bp is a monster

[kindred coral]

guys on aoe rotation you press shadowstrike on dance or shuriken storm

[swift tinsel]

storm

[kindred coral]

so shadowstrike only on st?

[swift tinsel]

st and 2 targets

[kindred coral]

okok

[swift tinsel]

storm actually does decent damage now so its not just a piss button anymore

[kindred coral]

ok and 1 shadowstrike for the deathstalker even in aoe right?

[limpid sage]

does the rotten work on sectec with apex 3 as well?

[kindred coral]

whats the point of pressing dance if you dont need shadowstrike tho

[swift tinsel]

it buffs all of our damage

not just strike

[chrome palm]

It also buffs storm extra

[kindred coral]

okok

[swift tinsel]

counter-intuitive as it feels, I kinda like striking into full cp in st

[hollow spear]

it makes you feel something?

[swift tinsel]

like I'm cheating the system lol

[lilac stag]

Yesterday Charrend said it feels like a yes in keys

[hollow spear]

I guess we can safely do sidequests now without fear of missing out on rep?

[swift tinsel]

it just feels very strong

[lilac stag]

it came up discussingor dissing the BP coup macro

[swift tinsel]

with the dmf not hitting midnight rep I'd say ye

I couldn't see myself using that macro

fairly often cases where you don't wanna do that

and I get the aim of it, I'm just of the mind where it doesn't make sense to learn one way for convenience then unlearn and learn the correct/better way over just learning that way the first time

[lilac stag]

I just don’t think we have enough going on to warrant ever needing it

[swift tinsel]

that too honestly

[lilac stag]

There’s a legit reason for the dance macros

The BP coup

[swift tinsel]

another apex question: if coup prepped and sectech available and apex proc available, better to send sectech over coup or coup since sectech apex clone is still just phys

assume st

ig wondering for st and aoe

[hollow spear]

I think I remember it was sectec

[swift tinsel]

seems like a bit of a waste but ig with enough sht you're gonna apex coup anyways

[grim phoenix]

anyone else lose the apex(not get a refund) if they use a shadow dance + sectech macro?

[swift tinsel]

premed bug blocks refund while the buff is up

[wispy pebble]

im not sure if i 100% understand the apex thing. If i have 5+ ST stacks and i dont have ancient arts buff i use SS again to trigger Ancient arts?

[swift tinsel]

if you have 5+ ShT stacks after using strike/storm then you get the buff

OR if you're at 5+ ShT stacks and full combo points before using strike/storm

[wispy pebble]

Okay and thats the only times i use Strike or Storm at full cp right?

[swift tinsel]

in single target

[wispy pebble]

Oh, wowhead guide says until 4 targets

[swift tinsel]

that's news to me then, was only ever floated for single target

[wispy pebble]

it says "As Trickster: Use Shadowstrike even if you are on full combo points if you have 5 or more stacks of Shadow Techniques up to trigger Ancient Arts. Only during Shadow Dance on low target counts (at maximum 4 targets). "

[lilac stag]

Sectech was prio

[plush roost]

I think whats gonna end up being "correct" in aoe is to have escalating a 3/4 before dance even if u have to hold coup for a bit then either go dance storm >apex coup sec tec, or sectec > storm >apex coup

The first one being contingent on you watching sec tec cdr and dancing 2 seconds before its up

Just vibes i dont have math

[lilac stag]

I’m assuming sims are trying to get max Sectech casts, which would make sense to not lose em.

[swift tinsel]

ye been messing with both of these and its feelycraft pretty good

[lilac stag]

would be curious to see over vs losing casts even pushing it back 1 global

[plush roost]

Do that too many times and u lose a few sec tecs over the key so idk

[lilac stag]

ye

flashbacks to last 2 seasons and people missing dance casts

[tropic pier]

you guys think trickster or deathstalker is faster leveling

[lilac stag]

doesn’t matter

[tropic pier]

i mean if one is a tiny bit better id like to use it

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[swift tinsel]

trickster has the giant benefit of not being deathstalker

which is hard to overlook

[tropic pier]

i thought trickster would be better at first but maybe deathstalkers mark helps you kill stuff faster

[lilac stag]

no one is min maxing open world sub builds.

[swift tinsel]

you kill everything with a sectech

[lilac stag]

Everything is dead in 4 globals

[plush roost]

Oh u guys just tell him its deathstalker

[swift tinsel]

habitual menace

[plush roost]

(Its the same tbh)

[lilac stag]

you know us, withholding info to leveling

best hero tree for leveling is ILVL

[swift tinsel]

I was liking trickster a lot by just gathering - dance+sectech - storm+ub's killing everything

[plush roost]

I mean blizzard is gonna look at heroic dungeon spam and leveling and if we go too hard theyll nerf sub again

Just like havoc in tww1 hahahaha

[swift tinsel]

they're gonna see us casting bp too much and buff nimble to the moon

oppo of tww

[humble jolt]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

priority dmg inc

[swift tinsel]

Potent powder nerf inc

Gonna halve it

[torn tide]

yo so now the rotation with that last apex is when above 5 sht stacks just strike even if full cp?

[alpine wraith]

been like that for a while

apexmaxxing

but also the win is not huge funnily enough

[torn tide]

so i just needa make sure i have 5sht then play around with it?

[swift tinsel]

I actually only look at my sht bar during dance and ignore cp once they’re max lol

Unless it’s BP time

[tepid trellis]

at max cp if you do not have an apex proc and you have 5 or more sht stacks

strike again

[hollow spear]

1.5% isn't too bad

We've done crazier stuff for less

[swift tinsel]

I’ve done worse for less lol

Ye haha

Been having fun with the initial dungeon grind

[torn tide]

so if im doing it correctly, i should be chaining the refunds over and over

[swift tinsel]

You pretty much just alternate strike and evisc

[tepid trellis]

well you would not back to back evis

[swift tinsel]

Once at full cp

[tepid trellis]

its just strike-evis-strike-evis

if you enough sht stacks

to keep doing it

[torn tide]

oh great im getting the hang of it

ty

just maiing sure, its the same thing with storm and bp right

[hazy breach]

No

In aoe you skip this

[torn tide]

oh so aoe i just double bp whenever i can

[hazy breach]

Storm doesn't do enough damage to justify it

Better to just double bp ye

[torn tide]

cool ty

[alpine wraith]

yea just st

[limpid sage]

Does Sectec do the late refund thing if you cancelaura Apex 3 after?

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[hazy breach]

Premeditation cancels it

Not sectech

[limpid sage]

oh yeah that's what I meant

if you cancelaura Premed

or have they changed the hook entirely

[torn tide]

this double bp feels like cheats lmao

[alpine wraith]

you cant cancel premed i think

[limpid sage]

lol true

well that clears it

[elder yarrow]

Is deathstalker competitive with trickster at all ?

[hazy breach]

It's alright in st, only a couple of percentages behind

But in AOE it's not very close

[elder yarrow]

How about aoe

Ok

[hazy breach]

Obviously depends on the exact situation

But in 8 targets 2 min sims it was like 20% behind

[swift tinsel]

I’m a big coup apex nimble enthusiast

[elder yarrow]

Thanks for the intel

[swift tinsel]

Bugfix was quite a boon

[hazy breach]

Like the entire tree is pretty much momentum of despair+singular focus in aoe

Mass casualty+darkest night doesn't do that much more than just bps

Whereas trickster is atleast 20% bp damage, but also a bunch of other stuff

[alpine wraith]

yea and also some gamba to get more coups from the double unseen

but also unseen cleaves

so sometimes you get a cool

snap

[swift tinsel]

The forbidden coup strike strike coup

[alpine wraith]

the snappier snap snap

[worldly root]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[alpine wraith]

more like coup strike evis strike coup

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

[limpid sage]

no that's why it's forbidden

[crimson dagger]

do we have any idea what the sims are looking like between our 3 specs currently? obviously tuning can/will change things and real world scenarios can cater to a specific damage profile

[quick burrow]

Think sub is currently ahead in most situations but not all. Things seemed decently close last I checked. I’m sure someone with more up to date info can weigh in tho

[alpine wraith]

it will come more to encounters than sims

as usual

[crimson dagger]

thanks, just want to make sure im not deadweight in m+ or that one is miles ahead of the other obviously gearing both assass and sub once plus releases but i dont want to put in that level of effort ahead of time

[quick burrow]

If you like sub, play sub, if you prefer ass, play ass. We won’t know before tuning which is actually gonna be good anyway

Don’t play outlaw, fuck outlaw

[vale pine]

sub has the best vibes

🙂

alright, first step done

[quick burrow]

Ayyy grats

How long did it take you?

[alpine wraith]

nice only 49 left

[vale pine]

we didn't play that long yesterday and started late, so probably 8-10h total

[swift tinsel]

do I equip for the ilvl bump

[quick burrow]

Oh that’s not even that bad

[tropic pier]

does anyone have a nice way to tracked shadow techniques in like a fixed space or bar

i hate how it jumps around with the buff bar

(preferably without arcui)

also is there any benefit to tracking flawless form/fazed anymore or there are no more minmaxes with this

[alpine wraith]

i use the mako one and it works well

it is an icon

smth like this

[crimson dagger]

i like both equally so doing dam is always the deciding factor lol

[swift tinsel]

got the lil bar on top of my cp to show

[barren haven]

Which addon is it?

[swift tinsel]

arc ui

[barren haven]

Ah k nice ty

[chrome palm]

Arc not supporting fragmented buff bars

Make me go insane

[lunar bluff]

honestly base cdm buffs stay in place

[plush trout]

is the new sub rogue more boring or more fun? idk if i should stick to rogue or if to go for dh

[barren haven]

Is there an import/export thing for arcui?

[chrome palm]

You just need to play it

[left ledge]

Idk man the rotation is literally the exact same

Idk what’s different from the past expansions

You essentially just press shadowstrike evis in ST forever

[chrome palm]

Yeah you just

[plush trout]

in single there isnt a diff

but in aoe

[chrome palm]

The spec is hard on rails now

[plush trout]

the flag prep with rupture spread

[left ledge]

Flag prep?

[chrome palm]

You press your damage macro and wait 20s to press it again

[plush trout]

sod cd managament with sectec

[fleet acorn]

anyone knows a addon for the mouse pointer- i want it to be something like that (with highlight behind it)

[left ledge]

Flag was basically full stacked in like 3 finishers

And you had resets

So it was like 3 gcds in aoe

Maybe 4

[swift tinsel]

only for full profile afaik

[barren haven]

Hmkay

[left ledge]

Rupture was a useless filler button to press when you couldn’t do anything else

[astral mountain]

I just use “bettercooldownmanager” you can add almost any buff or spell to a weak aura type set up

[chrome palm]

I hope you weren’t pre flagging :0

[left ledge]

You can still hit your rupture keybind if you want

[swift tinsel]

oh wait you can do it with the bars too

not the full thing

nice

[left ledge]

Same effect

[chrome palm]

When we had triple dance

[left ledge]

Maybe now sub is MORE engaging because you can dance more often

And lust does something

[chrome palm]

Aintnoway

[tropic pier]

i have bcdm and is that a new feature?

[chrome palm]

1 secret in blades

[left ledge]

Nah but fr idk what people were enjoying so much about previous sub in TWW

[chrome palm]

Not my idea of engaging

[astral mountain]

What’s the damage macro u use?
I only have Shadow Dance and SecTec together

[chrome palm]

That’s the one

[left ledge]

Sectec as a button does more rn than it did back then

[chrome palm]

Yeah

[left ledge]

Not in terms of dps

[plush trout]

more engaging for sure, but it feels odd to like not thing ahead of every pull to manage my cds

[chrome palm]

It’s the only button now

[left ledge]

But interactions

Wha did people like pressing symbols of death?

[swift tinsel]

3 cloak wq rewards is diabolical

[astral mountain]

So you can do /bcdm
then go to “buffs” and then go to your tracked buffs. And you can add shadow blades. I track blades and my shadow dance window

[chrome palm]

Looks symbols was fun for trickster imo

[tropic pier]

14

[left ledge]

Spec feels the exact same just less button bloat

[chrome palm]

To time the cdr in blades

[tropic pier]

i mean this is just cooldown manager

base

[chrome palm]

The burst window feels really boring now imo

[plush trout]

also i think my brain is cooked, but to me shuriken storm to constantly press it doesnt feel good, strike felt better :))

[tropic pier]

yesi h vae it there

[left ledge]

Idek what timing the cdr in blades means

[tropic pier]

but i dont like how it shifts position constantly

[chrome palm]

You press symbols

[swift tinsel]

the burst window feels very similar to me idk

[tropic pier]

i want to put it in a seperate spot

[swift tinsel]

bc you were often just strike-evisc anyways

[left ledge]

The fact that I don’t know what that means

[chrome palm]

Your next finisher has more cdr

[left ledge]

Ye no worries now you just have lower cds

No more punishment for downtime

[astral mountain]

If you want it separate from your central bar. I believe you can add it in the “spells and items” tab and move just blades anywhere you want

[chrome palm]

You get punished more for downtime now lol

You straight up lose casts

[tropic pier]

that doesnt track buff stacks

only cooldowns

[left ledge]

You lose casts back then too

But you also lost cd uptime

[chrome palm]

You could just move casts

[left ledge]

The current playstyle is not less punishing

You can just move casts now too

What

[chrome palm]

No

You lose casts now

[left ledge]

Are you eating 25 seconds of downtime

[chrome palm]

If you delay secret technique now

You aren’t getting it back

It’s way more impactful

[astral mountain]

Ah I just track mine on my central tab. I have it next to sectec and my coup

[left ledge]

Yeah and if you got sent up on dimensius you lost an entire dance and sectec in p1 because you couldn’t hit the bastard

[tropic pier]

wdym you cant do that

its not in essential

[chrome palm]

This still happens with the new version

[tropic pier]

can you screenshot how you have it?

[left ledge]

Only if the downtime is long enough

[astral mountain]

Yeah give me one sec

[left ledge]

Cdr as a finisher mechanic is objectively more punishing

[chrome palm]

Imagine there’s a damage amp at 1:40

[left ledge]

Ok

[chrome palm]

You run 700 haste

You want to hold for an add spawn 2 times for 5s each

Now your shit is delayed 10s

Or early

[left ledge]

?

That would be delaying blades which never had cdr

Why does that matter?

[chrome palm]

Because you only use blades when you have the things which used to be cdr’d

[left ledge]

Yes so even with old sub

[left ledge]

You’d be delayed 10 sec

[tropic pier]

this is how my cd manager is setup

i want shadow techniques in the middle bar not on top

[left ledge]

You can’t magically make that time back

[left ledge]

They didn’t just take away cdr and give us nothing

[chrome palm]

Old sub had room for error in cdr

[left ledge]

We got massively reduced cooldowns

[chrome palm]

Like you didn’t get secret back up just before blades all the time

It was common to hold it a little

[tropic pier]

🤦 i was saying secret techniques i meant shadow techniques

[left ledge]

Yeah sure Sectec is a bit of a pain right now

[chrome palm]

Which you’re punished for now very heavily

[tropic pier]

brainrot

[chrome palm]

That is the whole complaint

[plush roost]

Should probablt make it 1:50 for your analogy cause uhm, we hold sblades for 10-15 seconds anyway

[chrome palm]

I’m accounting for that

Also im p sure

[left ledge]

I just don’t see how it is more punishing in actual practice

Honestly I feel more free to send shit rn as sub

[chrome palm]

Nexus king burn is like 1:40 right

[plush roost]

Idr i think it was every 1:30

[chrome palm]

So like

[plush roost]

But that could be cap

[tropic pier]

are there dmg amps at bosses this tier

[left ledge]

Yes

[chrome palm]

There is a tiny ass amp on nexus king

[plush roost]

Tested it once and learned it was an amp later lmfao

[plush roost]

Wasnt it like 50%?

[chrome palm]

let me try to make a diagram to show what i mean to say

[barren haven]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-and-take-my-money-money-futurama-gif-6882124657810317443

[chrome palm]

thought it was 20

[plush roost]

I dont have dungeon journal

[chrome palm]

am i smoking meth

[plush roost]

Who knows

I swear it was more than 20

[bold brook]

In a vacuum it is less punishing. (Your stance)

If certain timers/mechanics in practice don't go your way, its has the potential to be more punishing as its more rigid/far less flexible now (OPs stance)

[hazy breach]

But A. Thats an early boss, and B. The most important thing on that boss definitely seems like bursting down the adds

So sub is gonna bang either way

[plush roost]

Mfw im second highest boss dam, add dam, and smallies dam

[chrome palm]

point is sub is clearly less flexible

[plush roost]

During testing 8)

Yeah it is less flexible that is true

[hazy breach]

Presumably without perfect add management

[hazy breach]

Ye for sure

[left ledge]

It is less flexible for sure yes

[hazy breach]

But its still fairly flexible

[plush roost]

But i think we just eat the sec tec cast loss if its an important timer and call it a day unfort

[hazy breach]

Ye

[chrome palm]

its very flexible in the sense that you can arrange to dance at any 20s point, but the damage loss you incur is a lot more

[uneven scarab]

are we thinking of araz amp

that was the big one

[plush roost]

Mmm we had pretty good management, constant loop around the arena kiting them, actually horrendous for melee uptime ngl

[chrome palm]

its a giga tank check

if you got old head tanks gg

HUGE

[plush roost]

I believe in tactycks

Ah it is 25 i c ic

[chrome palm]

save ur pot boys

[lunar bluff]

@warm marlin youree welcome

[hazy breach]

I dont disagree with the sectech not being flexible complaint, but i think blades being more like a 100s cd feels worse

[plush roost]

Wwwaannnngbarrrr

[hazy breach]

Like using blades on cd feels so jank

[swift tinsel]

supercharged border for the people?!

[lunar bluff]

superchgarged borda for the people

[swift tinsel]

my goat

king shit

[chrome palm]

i think these are kinda connected though

[hazy breach]

Ye its because hasted cdr on sectech is stinky

[chrome palm]

if dance wasnt a strict cd which doesnt like when you hold it

[plush roost]

Can u track sht as a number on the bar or is that offlimits or udont care didnt ask L sub bozo its outlaw gaming

[chrome palm]

id prefer like

longer dance cd too

so you dont giga overcap

[lunar bluff]

its probably off limits no cap L bozo outlaw

[plush roost]

Freal freal

[lunar bluff]

i dont really understand buffs anymore

like basing everything off the cdm is weird

[chrome palm]

weak auras at home 😭

[plush roost]

Yeah lets make it like say, 45 seconds... and then we can scale the cdr with haste....

Wait ive seen this one before!

[chrome palm]

yo scale my cd with haste if i have cdr idc

[plush roost]

Remember how we were gonna have the jankiest rework ever

In october

[tropic pier]

just give fixed 45 sec dance cd and sectech cd and make it hit like an 18 wheeler

[chrome palm]

secret technique with hasted cd and cdr wouldnt even be that bad surely

either way

[tropic pier]

45 sec cds are goated dmg profile

[chrome palm]

i love lust changing my cd timings

[plush roost]

And pi

[lunar bluff]

i just completely overestimated how much dynamic cdr ALONE changes sub

[plush roost]

Cant wait to peep loorgs

[bold brook]

MHSA

make haste shit again

[plush roost]

Honestly i genuinely wonder if were gonna play 700 haste no versa no mastery no bitches early on prog

Or 200 haste

[lunar bluff]

just play outlaw

[chrome palm]

dude

[plush roost]

700 haste is a lot of secondary early

[chrome palm]

if i gotta go outlaw on the st last boss and i made a dagger

[hazy breach]

Full bis 289 has like 2k secondaries total

[plush roost]

Offhand dagger buddy

[chrome palm]

very upsetto

[tropic pier]

tbh is is just me or all 3 specs feel kinda meh and meh tuning

s3 dragonflight reworks felt better

[lunar bluff]

offhand dagger is sadly 1% better

[chrome palm]

elite 80 cr dagger off hand is hype for sure

with the heroic sword

[lunar bluff]

but atleast we true gamers (outlaw) can tmog swords

[plush roost]

Ye its a tall order if were 20-30 ilvls behind that

Esp since jewelry is last to get uppies normally

[hazy breach]

Yeye it just seems insurmountable now at like 210 or whatever

But its gonna scale up

Its also wild how old raid rings are better at this ilvl

Because +1 socket is worth more than +50 ilvls

[plush roost]

I havent even replaced a piece of gear xd

[chrome palm]

is the 200/700 talk with the haste trinket

you know youre getting that piece of coal as your loot consolation prize

[hazy breach]

Robot doesnt really seem to care

Since the haste trinket is basically just +1 gcd in dance

It doesnt really matter if you are at 7 globals or 8 globals to begin with

Its still +1

[plush roost]

I just think in a tier with a decent level of aoe 200 haste could just be better

Theres a part of me that expects lightblind and alleria to be like

Endboss difficulty

[shell vector]

Am I crazy or does Secret Technique not count for Ancient Arts???

[plush roost]

Randomly

[chrome palm]

i think dragons are gonna be your aoe fight

[hazy breach]

It does (less than it should however)

[chrome palm]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[hazy breach]

But ancient arts gets cancelled if you have premed up when you try to use it

[astral axle]

this u bro?

[hazy breach]

Which is gonna be most of the time when entering dance at full cp

[chrome palm]

🐸

[hazy breach]

But it doesnt really matter if you cancel apex on sectech or not

[astral axle]

[tropic pier]

wait rly

[chrome palm]

this is plan 'S'

[torn tide]

shiver me timbers

[astral axle]

shadow does seem fun

[chrome palm]

except for tentacle slam never hitting anything its fun

[hazy breach]

Not on a helmet or something with agi

But rings ye

[tropic pier]

beats the max ilvl gear in midnight?

or just like 200 ilvl stuff

[hazy breach]

200 ilvl stuff

[tropic pier]

is there not a new socket item in midnight?

to get 2 sockets on all jewelry

[hazy breach]

Like here, new ring has +10 more stats

But -13 from only one socket

[hazy breach]

There is not

They just have 1 socket by default, thats it

(except last boss from raid, theirs have 2)

[visual lark]

im using blizz default resource bar and my hp + energy gets small like this, any chance to fix it to be bigger?

[tropic pier]

i feel like they are gonna nerf old gems as a result

and not make new ones socketable in old gear

[hazy breach]

I mean it doesnt really matter

[robust dust]

"As Trickster: Use Shadowstrike even if you are on full combo points if you have 5 or more stacks of Shadow Techniques up to trigger Ancient Arts. Only during Shadow Dance on low target counts (at maximum 4 targets). " can somone explain it for dumb me? 😄 i dont get it and i dont know how to track the apex talents in my buffs

[hazy breach]

These

[robust dust]

tho if i got these and have 5+ stack shadow technique in dance and full combo points i press shadowstrike?

[hazy breach]

No

If you dont have those

[robust dust]

ah to trigger those?

thanks for explaining ❤️

[dim stream]

!talents

[barren haven]

And do we press shadowstrike until we get it or once?

[torn tide]

yo is there such thing as getting off a triple bp with the apex?

idk why sometimes i hear the bp sound thrice in a row

[robust dust]

the goal is to always have it up isnt it? 😄

[torn tide]

oh is that what we see when the apex is up

[barren haven]

I mean the apex related to the question above

[lunar bluff]

with shadowstrike blasting why dont run rotten

[hazy breach]

They removed the guaranteed crit from rotten, its only +35% damage now

[lunar bluff]

mmmm

[hazy breach]

While i havent doubled checked this in a while, it also didnt apply to the clones

[lunar bluff]

i see

if they did i could see rotten weaponmaster blasting out shadow strike dmg

shadowstrike dmg

[hazy breach]

Weaponmaster isnt great either tbh

Most of the clone damage is from apex 1

[lunar bluff]

says you!

i forget do world quest ilvl scale off warband

[swift tinsel]

kinda surprised they haven't nerfed cloak, still beats those 50ilvl above it

almost a full percent behind a 220

[gentle patrol]

Hello, quick question and sorry to bother but...Thistle Tea is not more taken as a Talent? o.o Vigor Too?

[swift tinsel]

nope

the energy isn't really a factor for sub during cooldowns

[lilac stag]

We don’t need energy

[swift tinsel]

which is where our damage is

[warm marlin]

theyll never make me swap to a different resource bar 👑

for the people.

[swift tinsel]

had to throw a dono for that one, truly benevolent change

[astral mountain]

I tried lol

[fathom adder]

when does the cloak effect stop working?

[lucid jackal]

Never

itll probs get disabled in a few days

[minor osprey]

are the energy and cp bars from base cdm?

[fathom adder]

okay thank you

[warm marlin]

its wangbar

his addon

[minor osprey]

tyvm

[warm marlin]

d1 texture

[left peak]

is there a sheet somewhere lruking with all spec tier set increases?

[sullen hare]

No but there is a pinned post

#subtlety message

[plush roost]

Erm bro? Wrong purpke

[ebon trench]

This spec on pve raid etc is a 3 button spec now? Like its not just me? Shadow strike evis and st

[lunar bluff]

ty goat

[fervent leaf]

@short radish test

[plush roost]

What if i told you its been a 4 button spec for years

[ebon trench]

never played it much pve side lol

thats wild

[plush roost]

Ye and yet, there is still depth

Could use an extra button tho freal

Goremaws when

[ebon trench]

i think most classes could use a extra button rn

[lucid jackal]

It lost symbols (a button you pressed almost excluislvey just with dance)
rupture (a button that was just like a 2nd copy of slice and dice that we had to manually apply)
and then flag (You literally just pressed this before blades and thats it

[odd sandal]

Yeah, something small just for outside dance

[plush roost]

Ye i only feel rupture loss really

[ebon trench]

Let me place clones that attack the closest enemy and copy my abilities

[plush roost]

Bear druids right over there

Hehe

[warm marlin]

Pressing rupture outside dance felt miles better than eviscerate

[plush roost]

Yeah the thing of rupture being a dot was that it was like filler builsing towards your burst

[warm marlin]

Or getting to refresh it instead of bping in st if you’re holding coup

[plush roost]

Satisfying to press even tho its just essentially just another finisher

[pulsar hemlock]

About what ilvl do we stop using our manaforge cloak

[plush roost]

Which is why goremaw should guarantee the next 3 finishers do clones regardless of sht consumed

Goremaw -> dance go brrr

[ebon trench]

that would be fun

[plush roost]

Instead of the energy nonsense

[ebon trench]

and they probably have that lined up if we underperform later

[plush roost]

Erm

I got baaad news

[ebon trench]

shit

[plush roost]

They dont really work on rogue xd

[ebon trench]

I can tell by how our tier set looks

compared to others

[plush roost]

Lowest pop spec no dev no devs wanna come over to work on it

Oof

[pulsar hemlock]

no dev no bitches no loot no raid buff no hope

[plush roost]

Best we can hope for is some bug fixes

[ebon trench]

which is wild like why not. u could embrace the shadow spectre fantasy sohard with sub

[plush roost]

[lucid jackal]

I mean this isn't like

Exactly true

Remember in tww season 1 midseason they did a small rogue patch, they added supercharger, they removed dust, fixed coup

Like idk, its entierly possible they do another patch like that

just a small set of cleanup type changes

[plush roost]

Ye ive just been told by someone close to the dev team they arent looking at rogue outside of tuning rn

Whether they are ragebaiting me or not

Who knows

[lucid jackal]

I mean there might not be anything planned this season/midseason but like

Idt its entierly true to say they pay us 0 attention

[glass jasper]

Could someone elaborate this for me?

[warm marlin]

they did fix a lot of bugs

[lucid jackal]

Yeah and we are like, almost entierly bug free atp arent we

[plush roost]

Well

Eh

[ebon trench]

if they gave rogue attention maybe they wouldnt be the lowest

[swift tinsel]

#subtlety message

[lucid jackal]

Its been the lowest pop class since like, catalysm

[plush roost]

Honestly most of the bugs with sub are in apex huh

[ebon trench]

wonder why tho

[plush roost]

Outlaw has a really dumb supercharger apex bug too lmfao

[warm marlin]

i genuinely care 0 about being lowest pop

[ebon trench]

same i just want another button

and a better looking tier set

[astral axle]

https://tenor.com/view/alcohol-purple-drink-party-gif-7307755

[warm marlin]

being low pop is good if it means they can introduce more niche mechanics

[plush roost]

Idk we had s2 tww tier set design

[plush roost]

Weve used all our tmog bank

[lucid jackal]

This is a blog post from 2010

[swift tinsel]

I wish they'd lean into this more tbh

[lucid jackal]

So this was actually a post BEFORE cataclysm

This was like, tail end of wrath

Rogue was 7.4% playrate

I also don't think it matters at all how popular or unpopular ur class is

But rogue has been unpopular for literal decades

[plush roost]

Priest being so high is crazy lol

Was it good in cata or?

Or i guess worlk

[lucid jackal]

No clue

[plush roost]

I was like 7years old xd

[swift tinsel]

required for some fights

like maly you needed priest or rdruid

[ebon trench]

i swear i see more rogues than DH

[swift tinsel]

DH has the luxury of VDH

which is quite often very good in m+

[astral axle]

bro....

[plush roost]

Dh has the luxury of being hypermobile flashy spec

[swift tinsel]

that too

[astral axle]

👴

[ebon trench]

true fast asf

[astral axle]

fuck me im old as shit

[swift tinsel]

lol I was 20 when that blog post came out

turn 36 in a week

[astral axle]

yup. pretty much old as you haptics

[ebon trench]

bro i just turned 26

i was a baby making a gnome dk on my moms account then pretending i was it outside

i wasnt allowed to play till WoD....

[astral axle]

30 approaches ! oooh! Spooky!!

[swift tinsel]

minus the knee and back pain 30 is pretty chill

[astral axle]

yeah

ive liked being 30 more than 20 fr

[ebon trench]

i already got that from military

[hearty mural]

do u pop shadowblades first then secret ?

[obtuse dirge]

at how many targets do we storm and bp over backstab/evis?

[swift tinsel]

2

shadowstrike up to 2 targets in dance tho

more info here: https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/856897746128207892

[celest night]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hidden jetty]

!talents

[narrow shadow]

Hey guys, do we still do that stuff of using builders when at full CP at 5 stacks of ShT to trigger apex? or do we just send finisher?

[alpine wraith]

in st yes

apexmaxxiing

[narrow shadow]

How much diff is it?

[swift tinsel]

~1.5%

[minor osprey]

what is the reason we send at 6 or more cp and not 5 or more

[alpine wraith]

just math saying strike+finisher at 6+ is better than finisher at 5 then strike

[hazy breach]

In practice you almost always end up at 7 anyway

Because of shadow techniques

[minor osprey]

yeah i just have leftover fear from assa of overcapping

[hazy breach]

Shadow Techniques cant overcap

And thats the absolute vast majority of your combo point generation (like 70%+ on ST)

[tulip light]

are adventure crest relevant in any way or can we just send them insta?

[swift tinsel]

I sent mine on a prey dagger

[willow pawn]

was the delve spam nerfed?

[hazy breach]

They rotate per day

So its a different one today

Idk how many variants there are but it should be back in like 3 days or something

[warm marlin]

is anyone else getting some weird behaviour with cp and buff stuff

i assume its outdoor lag but it wont update sometimes until my cp change

like press dance, my bar doesnt start showing until I build/finish then it appears

[cyan saddle]

I know why, but it feels counterintuitive to me to use shuriken storm in SD.

I know it gives more with 3 targets than SS does, but

[hazy breach]

It does 100% more damage during dance

[toxic rapids]

is trickster or deathstalker better rn?

[hazy breach]

Tricky

[toxic rapids]

ty

where can i find best talents?

[hazy breach]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq

[swift tinsel]

yes

and I wanna say it was only outdoors for me

or like open world stuff

but for me it disappears until I use a finisher, never builders

[tulip light]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[undone verge]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[fathom adder]

when did you replace your cloak?