subtlety

[spice matrix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[surreal glacier]

went to a store to buy white monster for midnight and they had none, had to get the gay one instead

gg

[chilly kite]

what is the difference between white and og monster flavor?

[surreal glacier]

idk i didn't taste the og one in like over a decade but when i did it was shit

that's all i remember

[chilly kite]

I can only drink the og monster flavor, alergic to that shit they put in the zero sugar stuff

[vale pine]

Just get yourself some of these bad boys

[rough rivet]

hello, are there beta sims as well? (was wondering how good/bad 2p/4p are for each spec)

[vale pine]

idk what this helps you

to be fair

[rough rivet]

well the guy that does the loot stuff in my guild wanted to know how good rogue set is. just to know who most likely gets sets first. and since i dont know and dont really care (who cares about loot anyways) i couldnt answer

[lean bone]

Just curious, are there any rogue (or specifically sub) content creators who’ve made video guides on sub in midnight? I just love to accompany text guides with video so that i can see how something ‘should’ work

[vale pine]

did your officer play dragonflight?

[rough rivet]

yes

[vale pine]

sorry, i mean the war within

[rough rivet]

also yes

[limpid sage]

do you know what other classes are getting?

[vale pine]

nope

but you can just sim it ^^

if you have a profile for the spec

[limpid sage]

gonna wait for ulria's spreadsheet then

[vale pine]

XD

well back to the point

midnight makes aquireing tier set even easier

sooo

[ornate ruin]

whats the input

(whenever u get a chance)

[vale pine]

#midnight
copy="2p"
set_bonus=midnight_season_1_4pc=0
copy="0p"
set_bonus=midnight_season_1_2pc=0```

[vale pine]

the reason i asked was

[ornate ruin]

ty

[wise pawn]

How so? Does catalyst open earlier?

[vale pine]

you now typically plan in a way that every raider gets tier 2nd week

so 2nd heroic clear, everyone should have the tier set bonus completed w/e

[ivory obsidian]

Yeah everyone basically has a 2 set

[wise pawn]

Also, @vale pine I’ve just come back to sub rogue after a long hiatus and wanted to say ty for the guide writing it’s been great

[vale pine]

thanks

[rough rivet]

yeah i knew that (so did he i believe). thats why i dont really care about loot (or at least tier)

[wise pawn]

Damn my guild is just me and 4 dudes and none of them raid 😭

[vale pine]

haha all fine

i hope it did not seem too agressive from me

[rough rivet]

na ofc not. thanks a bunch 🙂

[vale pine]

unlucky

[surreal glacier]

erm i have a complaint 🤓 because the guide is faulty, i started playing sub like yesterday and im not parsing 100 its gotta be the guides fault

[vale pine]

you forgot to

enable one button rotation

thats for sure it

[wise pawn]

Hahahaha

[astral axle]

tWo BuTtOn RoTaTiOn

[surreal glacier]

ah thanks, also another complaint i have about the guide is why am i not top dps in every raid and dungeon?

[manic glen]

skill issue

[vale pine]

😭 my bar setup for testing on beta

could macro secret to dance

and make it even less

[wise pawn]

I was reading the midnight bugs and there is one about sec tech and apex talents only buffing the physical portion, may seem a dumb question but is this actually a bug or intended?

If a bug and fixed would this be a huge net buff?

[vale pine]

potentially intended

[rough rivet]

i hope they revert some pruning in tlt. rogue feels so bad imo.

[vale pine]

but many things bugs are discussable

my rule of thumbs for bugs is

[astral axle]

as much as i meme about it it feels like sub is maybe missing a button (not saying it is rupture per se). But on the whole I still have about as much fun playing sub as I did before. And I was initially very skeptical!

[vale pine]

if the person playing would not assume something to work in a specific way

it is probably a bug

i can give you one example

[wise pawn]

That makes a lot of sense

[vale pine]

if you press stealth

you go into stealth

thats kinda obviouse

but if you use dance

and then try to go stealth

you can't

[buoyant iron]

yo dont we need haste? playing on beta with low haste and feels ass

[vale pine]

yes, roughly around 18%

[vale pine]

^ now why is that so?

[main falcon]

Single Target:
Agility (Item level) > Haste (~35%) >= Vers >= Mastery = Crit

Mythic+:
Agility (Item level) > Mastery => Vers > Crit > Haste (~15%)

[vale pine]

it is because, in legion, we found out that you can protect stealth with shadow dance

protecting means, stealth does not break while dance is up

this is not super impactful in pve

but in pvp

[upbeat garden]

Even if u go with more haste u still dont do much more than with more mastery

[vale pine]

image a rogue attack you, and is untargetable for 8 sec

thats not great

[azure mauve]

that seems pretty great to me

[vale pine]

for us ye

[wind wharf]

can we have legion sub again

[vale pine]

for the health of pvp, no

[upbeat garden]

Legion sub was the best

[vale pine]

so blizz had two options

[wind wharf]

it had some minor issues

like trying to play death from above on certain fights

[upbeat garden]

So what

Still more fun

[wind wharf]

hence "can we have legion sub again"

[vale pine]

number 1: dig into the code and figure out why stealth is protected and re-write the code so it would not be
number 2: disallow you to cast stealth when shadow dance is up

so it took the 2nd one

but that did just mean

pvpers did use vanish

because vanish applies stealth

[buoyant iron]

what should i aim for as haste stat ? crafts?

[vale pine]

so then they made it so vanish does not apply stealth during the improved stealth phase

but it does so after 3 sec when improved drops

[wise pawn]

Thanks fuu, that makes sense

[regal venture]

Exactly, but yeah its fun

[vale pine]

to fix this

they made it so that applying stealth removes shadow dance

so if you use dance + vanish

and wait for 3 sec

dance gets cancled

to get to the point

we know why it works that way now

is it a bug?

[modest snow]

if I wanna focus on one hero talent I just play trickster right now, is that correct

[vale pine]

yes

[modest snow]

ok ty

[wise pawn]

Could I ask a really noob question?

I’ve noticed in dance that energy regenerates a hell of a lot faster, is this a talent? Is this also why you use vanish when at low combo points? I don’t fully understand why we would vanish

[vale pine]

we would not use vanish in dance ^^

vanish in general is just a filler spell

[hazy breach]

Master of Shadows (Talent), Shadow Techniques (Passive, in spell book)+Shadowcraft(Talent)

[vale pine]

we use to cast a shadowstrike

your energy generation is increased in dance by all what eleem mentioned

and apex talents

[wise pawn]

Ohhhhhhhh

[vale pine]

once we reach max level/unlock them

[wise pawn]

Thanks guys!!

So you would vanish and shadowstrike to get max cp

Would this only work in an st scenario?

[hazy breach]

In Aoe you already get full cp from shuriken storm

So it doesnt matter

[vale pine]

waning sign also contributes

which was forgotten to mention

[wise pawn]

Assumed as much, I just wanted to check because it’s there in the guide in the Aoe section too

[modest snow]

nvm found the faq

[wise pawn]

I find it a lot better to follow the guide but also understand why I’m doing it situationally

[hardy orchid]

have i finally found my kind of people 😭

[wise pawn]

Bloody hell thanks fuu you’ve been a great help!

[vale pine]

so basically:

• Sht (gives energy every 3rd or 4th auto attack)
• shadowcraft (makes it every 2nd or 3rd auto attack and generate more energy/cp during dance)
• warning sight (more attack speed during dance)
• master of shadows (10 energy every sec for 3 sec after using dance)
• apex adds extra shadow technique procs

if you want to make it easier for yourself in aoe

you can make a macro for coup + black powder

less buttons ^^

[regal venture]

Never played sub before, but the rotation feels fun on beta. I only need to figure out when i need to stop using shadow dance so, I have two cooldowns ready for shadowblade

[vale pine]

(its just

/cast Black Powder``` )

[wise pawn]

That one I’ve already done!

[hazy breach]

Black, not blacp

[vale pine]

oops, fixed

[wise pawn]

If the cd is at or within 10 secs you hold dance and sec tech

[vale pine]

you basically look at your secret cd:
Is secret up?

• send dance with secret
  outside of that you want to send 2 dances back to back during blades
  and if blades is about to come up, you wait to use dance + secret when its ready.

^ the last is the 10 sec vynari mentioned

[south kernel]

yo the bug with secret tech and apex 3 hasnt been fixed yet right? so we still cancel aura macro anceint arts on secret tech or what?

[hazy breach]

You dont have to

Its whatever

[south kernel]

i thought the apex was a pretty big chunk thats why u always proc it in dance even at full cp no?

[hazy breach]

Yes it does way less than it should, but because you have superchargers on it the damage isnt drastically different than eviscerate

[south kernel]

ahhh

so its a bit less poopy gotcha

[hazy breach]

And if you cancel you sometimes end up with too many shts at the end of dance

Because you couldnt spend them fast enough

So like you can cancel if you want to, but simcraft says its like +-0 to do it

[south kernel]

yea i guess this'd be very common when holding aswell

[hazy breach]

So why bother

[south kernel]

yea to be honest i wanted to ask cos i wanted someone smarter to tell me the math

thanks again brother <3

[hazy breach]

Also in big aoe its actually benefitial to not cancel it

[south kernel]

wait really?

[hazy breach]

Because target scaling math

[south kernel]

OH

clone isnt soft capped?

[wintry heart]

I know this is all situational, but should my dmg breakdown look like this? I am in a raid and the other rogue has like double my evis damage but not nearly as much sec tech damage

Just trying to make sure im playing this right

[hazy breach]

AoE clones do 50% of the initial hit, just like sectech clones themselves

But then its missing the softcap yes

[south kernel]

ok yea thats probs why

since we are here i wanna ask 1 more thing

its a dps increase to ss at full cp in dance to reproc apex in ST and its the same in aoe correct?

like u storm again to reproc it

or is it worse?

[hazy breach]

Its on low targets, not in aoe

[south kernel]

OH

its a loss on large count?

[plush roost]

A log would help but it could just be stat differences and crit variance.

Could also be he presses evis more than you. Too many variables to know without a log comparison

[hazy breach]

Yes

[south kernel]

thanks man ur the 🐐

[plush roost]

Ye storm does piss damage, strike does comparable damage in ST

[south kernel]

OHH okay that makes alot of sense

the ss damage offsets the loss of combopoints

but storm doesnt

[plush roost]

And apex powder is bugged to not benefit from potent powder so yknow

XD

[south kernel]

good ol bug soup

wait wrong garfield

[plush roost]

Versioning soup

They fixed it

Pushed a wednesday beta update

And it broke again

[south kernel]

LMFAO

[frail bone]

Im assuming this is trickster hero talents?

[south kernel]

potent powder? no its in spec

[wise pawn]

Does sht only affect the amount of cp your builders generate or does it affect damage done by spenders?

I swear I thought it was so simple but there’s so many little intricacies

[plush roost]

Its just combo points until apex talent where you proc and it summons clones that duplicate whatever procced them

So if u strike and get 2 sht consumed to fill bar, your strike can get doubled at 50%

[south kernel]

yo char im guessing ur progging sub unless heroic week has some diabolical tuning for assa right?

[plush roost]

If you have 10 sht, and strike, it empowers your next finisher to eat them and duplicate and refill your cp

[plush roost]

Probably maybe i whip out the law for fun

Heroic week w.e

Assa tuning is quite down bad atm

Or if u mean after heroic week idk it highly depends

Sub is plan for the moment

[wise pawn]

Do you actively play around that? Or is it just a passive thing for the most part?

[wintry heart]

Well he responded to me, he is at 24% haste and imn at 7

[south kernel]

sounds good just wanted to steal someone's homework

heroic week tuning might change everything anyway

[plush roost]

The finisher part is something you can minmax for .5%

But u can just full send without much loss, and messing up the minmax is worse than zugzug

[plush roost]

Ye probs more shadow dance uptime = more eviserates in dancr

[wise pawn]

Thank you

Thanks everyone for your help, what a ripper community!

[lilac pendant]

That could work

[frail bone]

ok, im a bit lost in the short hand here. sht comes from what talent.

im a bit confused so I am just trying to be clear, im coming back to rogue after a long break and I would like to understand it thoroughly so I can minmax with practice..

[south kernel]

its baseline not really a talent

[frail bone]

oh ok, I was pooring through the talent tree thinking I was out to lunch

[strange chasm]

Barring any tuning we thinking sub?

Or is the law looking decent

[frail bone]

so basically the the extra blue CP when we store it?

[south kernel]

in your heart u know the answer is never outlaw

[south kernel]

no thats from a talent

supercharger

bottom centre on cals talent

shadow techniques appears as a buff with a counter on it and doesnt get displayed in the regular combo point UI

[frail bone]

oh which counts to 15

[urban hull]

guys, isn't Coup de Grace a passive? why the macro with Black Powder?

[south kernel]

coupe isnt a passive it repalces evis
and its so u press 1 finsiher

its for the sake of simplicity and pressing only 1 button in aoe

well 1 finisher button

[spiral needle]

is being able to put 2 GCD abilities in a macro new for midnight, or just a funny way of how coup works

[south kernel]

funny coup way im gonna assume

[urban hull]

ooohhh I get it, tyty

[hollow spear]

Coup is not in your spellbook

Until you "learn" it

So it's an exception

[vale pine]

its an excelption because of coup being a proc effect

[spiral needle]

spicy

[vagrant finch]

I’m thankful for the coup/bp macro because without it I’d have to press more than 3 buttons and if I press more than 3 buttons I cry blood like a demonized virgin mary statue

[runic sinew]

how this talent (potent powder) works?

[hazy breach]

50/50 on whether clones end up doing like 2x the damage theyre supposed to come release too

Since weaponmaster clones on prepatch still do

But on beta they dont

[indigo gorge]

how does sub feel in raid for midnight

[lilac stag]

like sub

[indigo gorge]

appreciated

[lilac stag]

No problem! do you want to elaborate on your question?

[vale pine]

good

[narrow shadow]

Hey guys did we get any undocumented bug fixes recently?

[vale pine]

a few

[frail bone]

so quick question, regardless of the situation do we want to have Shuriken storm macro to our base dance. do to the delay with SS now. like for instant max cp's even in ST? Or is that wasting to much energy.

[vale pine]

you can make it easy for yourself

in the opener just vanish-strike before dance

and after the opener, you use dance on finishing cps

[quasi eagle]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

with the secret + dance macro

[south kernel]

oh yea i was very curious why u didnt put that as the default opener on the wowhead guide

any reasons?

i think its alot safer so u dont lose some dance uptime specially if u dont have alot of leeway on dance duration early its just better to use the tech-dance macro and vanish is a very good way to cap cps

[vale pine]

the main reason to do so would be to be able to use the macro always

so unsure if thats enough to suggest it as default

[frail bone]

also depending you might need vanish in other areas, like pvp.

[vale pine]

can be used for mechanical cheeses too

[bleak night]

mmm

mechanical cheese

[frail bone]

the big blades macro, can you also incorp sec tech in that or does it conflict with the on use things.

[astral axle]

just like mom used to make

[vestal escarp]

⚙️ 🧀

[limpid sage]

looking at this without the context above I thought this was something very different

[acoustic lodge]

Yes it is

[wintry heart]

This is clean I may need to get back on atrocity hi

[tulip light]

why do you track backstab? to see gcd?

[alpine wraith]

it is to fill the void

big stab situation

[west tide]

whats the macros for, am i intin if i got seperate keybinds still in 2026

i have a bind for naked dance a bind for dance shadowstrike that i spam when i press dance in rotation

[vale pine]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[alpine wraith]

we are so tight in gcds that every 0.2 secs counts

to not lose dmg

even more with coup krangling 0.2 from us too

[west tide]

hmm ok ok but im so used to it..

[alpine wraith]

so you have the dance+sec tech macro

[west tide]

i will try to macro the dance sec tech

i happened to put them on buttons i can press at the same time

[alpine wraith]

trickster does not really use the storm one

the cds one also helps a bit

[regal venture]

Is it oke to macro shadow dance > shadow blades > secret technique?

As long I get my combo points up before pressing it

[burnt sable]

people with hours on beta...do you find the new sub rotation gets boring?

[crimson tendon]

in raid or M plus?

[burnt sable]

good point - i was asking about m+ but curious about raid as well

[crimson tendon]

M plus on my part felt kind of bland as sub

[burnt sable]

that was my concern

[crimson tendon]

single target is more fun,

the 2 button spam in AoE is meh

[burnt sable]

was hoping the on demand dmg aspect of dance kept it fun but the rotation is very bland..i feel like if it kept rupture it would be good

not sure if it will be enough to keep me engaged all season :S

[crimson tendon]

i miss rupture personally

[burnt sable]

raid more engaging?

[vale pine]

wow already has a very seasonal model

so there is potential that this is intentional

[burnt sable]

nvr thought of that

i just assumed it was to get players and/or newer players comfortable into a class they are not normally comfortable playing

lower the barrier to entry

[crimson tendon]

i feel that using the burst windows in raid was satisfying and fun

[grand wyvern]

i think if you want to be engaged long term now you have to play alts, just cause it is so easy to keep up with multiple specs

[crimson tendon]

the storm and black powder spam was just not that fun I found, personally

[vale pine]

or diffrent game modes

wow is very good in keeping old xpacs around

so you can always hop between releases

[golden thunder]

Why do we automate Coup de Grace with Black Powder in a macro just for AoE? DOes it make sense to automate it also with Eviscerate?

[fossil forge]

https://tenor.com/view/loading-wtf-ruocgiff-gif-25631449

[swift tinsel]

because you can cast coup and have it flurry

[grand wyvern]

the button automatically changes from evis to coup

[swift tinsel]

evisc can't

[golden thunder]

ok easy

[hazy breach]

You dont need the macro

There are opportunities where you'd want to hold it

[floral geyser]

so tomarrow I only use shadow dance once my Shit is 10?

[hallow matrix]

why would you do this when you're normally in stealth on boss pull anyway?

[grand wyvern]

snd

[vale pine]

basically

you by default would

strike-evi

dance-strike

[floral geyser]

i know its Sht but i like say Shit

but i dont know what to do with apex

[vale pine]

but because people use a macro with dance + secret

[floral geyser]

apex rotation

[vale pine]

you either need to modify that macro

or have a 2nd dance bind/macro

using vanish would remove this need

you can just vanish-strike

[grand wyvern]

theoretically you can't st at 0cp so it should still work

[vale pine]

and then dance + secret with the macro

[vale pine]

true

[hallow matrix]

Wait so it's better to Stealth -> strike -> evisc -> vanish -> strike -> Dance/blades/Sectec macro?

So the optimisation is just about getting SnD up quick?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter

[hallow matrix]

otherwise you'd just stealth->strike->macro

[floral geyser]

how much dps that gives

[lucid jackal]

Some fights will force u to do fast opener

[hallow matrix]

I mean it clearly matters if fuu is suggesting doing it no? all these little nuances add up and make a difference in the big picture

[hazy breach]

None

[lucid jackal]

well like I said, there are fights where doing slow opener ruins your CDs for when a fight needs damage

[floral geyser]

im just trying to figure out how to change rotation or what new addons to get for the apex

to maybe i need make sht bar using arcui?

[lucid jackal]

Like queen ansurek for example if u did slow opener u didnt have them for web spawns

So it wasn't "better"

[hazy breach]

Its not better in sims either

[hallow matrix]

If it's not better in sims why is it being suggested?

[hazy breach]

[grand wyvern]

ocd

[hallow matrix]

@vale pine ?

[floral geyser]

Autism

oh wow male drenei look stupid af in rogue gear

[north schooner]

[chrome palm]

its still better with pre-disorient right?

[hazy breach]

Njet

[chrome palm]

hmg

[floral geyser]

is there a s1 rotatino guide

[keen dome]

Multiple, yes.

[floral geyser]

which one is best?

the wowhead one doesn't mentino how to play around sht

[grand wyvern]

i think it is still pre patch guide and you dont play around it in prepatch

[keen dome]

They're all very good. Just have a read of them, read the abilities in-game, hit some dummies. Simple, solved, easy.

[floral geyser]

uhh

which one menetions sht

[grand wyvern]

subtlety-faq mentions it

[vale pine]

whats the question?

you can alter the opener without losing damage

as long as you don't start to delay stuff too long

so it does not matter if you strike-evis-dance or strike-evis-vanish-strike-dance

[grand wyvern]

actually i am wrong it mentions it in advanced tips

[vale pine]

but as guy mentioned, vanish can have some utility uses

you might want to use it to cheese mechanics

or have an additional gap closer

[hallow matrix]

I guess with that said, the question is why would you strike-evis-vanish-strike-dance if you can just strike-evis-dance? OR even strike-blades macro? or is that last one a big dps loss? @vale pine

[vale pine]

for convinience

[hallow matrix]

If the first two are equal in dps it feels like a waste of vanish? and if all 3 are equal then its just delaying cds coming back

[vale pine]

basically its like this

[hallow matrix]

The most convenient opener is just strike into blades macro?

[vale pine]

deepening shadow can introduce dance lenghs

where its hard to hit the last global

so you can use a macro

as trickster, we typically use a macro with secret + dance

given that we already want to start dance with high combo points

this is where the problem comes in

you would want to use a 2nd macro for dance + strike or dance + storm now in the opener

to be fast

vanish-strike allows you to just use the same macro

so you gain convinience

ofc it might not be that big of a deal

[hallow matrix]

Okay i get that, and i may just be stupid, but i still don't understand if you're talking about the opener only, why do you need to vanish strike? You can just strike from stealth and have max combo points from premed and then go into your macro?

or is it literally only to get SnD up pre dance?

[vale pine]

lets recap the opener

you strike from stealth

strike generates full combo points via premeditation

so you use evis to get slice and dice up

after that, you start shadow dance

but you are on low combo points, so you can't use secret immidiatly

so you need to use shadowstrike

[hallow matrix]

yea so you use the dance+storm macro

[vale pine]

every time you use dance after

you don't need to use dance asap

you are more dynamic

e.g. by not using a finisher for a few secounds before secret comes up

you can get some sht stacks build up

and immidiatly use dance + secret as soon as it comes up

this means, the problematic of needing to use shadow strike (or shuriken storm) as first builder

only ever happens once at the start of the fight

and using vanish-strike can bridge the gap and change it to dance-secret

[grand wyvern]

i'll add a dumb question: when it's your second dance in blades do you try to time it manually, use a macro or does it even make any difference?

[vale pine]

you just use dance back to back

[grand wyvern]

ok but you need a bind without macro for that right?

[hallow matrix]

Okay i think i get you, thanks for taking the time to write that up. I wasn't valuing how much of a dps increase it is to get SnD up before the first dance

[hallow matrix]

i think that depends on your combo point state, in dance you're either full or 0, so you would either storm macro or sectec macro

[grand wyvern]

i'll rephrase: depending on haste can ever happen that you get st up before first dance is over and risk firing it off without supercharger when you chain dances?

[hallow matrix]

or if your sectec is on CD then your dance sectec macro will onyl dance

if you chain dance you get another set of supercharger

so if your macro is dance+sectec it will always be supercharged

[grand wyvern]

but if you use a macro you could fire st before the second dance goes off

[hallow matrix]

why? unless you're spamming your dance macro before your dance has ended?

[grand wyvern]

if you press the button before first dance is over and st is off cd, you would cast st with no second dance

[sick dagger]

Sorry for my peanut brain, but whats ”sht” short for?

[alpine wraith]

shadow techniques

[hallow matrix]

yea so just wait for your dance to end?

[swift tinsel]

Since you can’t spell queue when dance is still up and have any cp if you’re spamming that macro it will send Sectech if it’s off cd

[grand wyvern]

well trying to time it well you could fuck up

[hallow matrix]

The only solution to that is to have a separate bind for dance, which is fine

unless you can stance conditional macro

[swift tinsel]

Which you should have

[grand wyvern]

i don 't know if its even possible depending on haste tho

[hallow matrix]

but i don't know if that's been stopped

[swift tinsel]

A naked dance bind

Trying to over-engineer macros is just going to make things messier

[hallow matrix]

Yeah i'm not suggesting do that

i have a naked dance, dance+sectec, dance+storm and the blades macro

[surreal glacier]

pspspspspsps

[sinful copper]

not ultra gold pineapple = PASS!!!

[surreal glacier]

🤨

[keen dome]

I've never tried monster. That trap won't work on me.

[minor trout]

Mhm I don’t rlly get how I can always have 2 dance in SB. Even if I hold it if SB is like 10sec away I end up with only 1 dance sometimes

[tulip light]

hold longer

[warm marlin]

hold blades

[short radish]

we're casting 2 sectech in blades as well right? just only one that is superchaged

[astral axle]

not missing much

[warm marlin]

if you have the haste for it

[minor trout]

So we rather hold blades for a bit then start holding dance earlier?

[warm marlin]

ye

sim holds blades to 1:40 - 1:45 ish

[swift tinsel]

It gets kinda weird bc Sectech cd is weird

[worldly root]

k

[lilac stag]

What did I miss? Are we in 2 button meme area?

[fiery fog]

how exactly should i understand this?
i go into dance with sectec as my first finisher
strike for (in this case) full cp and see i have 5+ sht stacks
I strike again
do i continue striking or do i use evis after that strike?

[hazy breach]

Its supposed to be "not up"

[fiery fog]

oh

so if im below 5 sht stacks

i strike again

[hazy breach]

No

If you dont have the apex up, and you could proc the apex

Proc the apex

[fiery fog]

so i strike, have 5+ sht stacks + full cp after and no ancient arts i strike again before evis

[hazy breach]

Thats never gonna happen

If you have 5+ sht stacks after you strike

You already have the apex

Its literally just this: #subtlety message

[swift tinsel]

Not this time surprisingly lol

[tidal blade]

I think it’s if you have apex -> evisc -> 5 sht? Strike -> evisc for another apex proc

[fiery fog]

i kinda dont get it xd
what exactly needs to happen to use another shadowstrike

surely im overcomplicating things but i dont get the logic behind this

[hazy breach]

Read through the apex again

[plush roost]

Your apex will proc if you meet the following condition: you have reached max combo points with a builder AND you have 5 sht leftover

[fiery fog]

isnt that just the cp refund

the proc is the refund

right?

[hazy breach]

Yes and how do you get it

[fiery fog]

i use evis when the apex is up and get the cp refund

[hazy breach]

How do you get the proc

[fiery fog]

if i strike and have 5+ sht stacks after

[hazy breach]

Yes

[plush roost]

So what do you think happens after that

[fiery fog]

so in short in dance
I strike, if i have the proc i just evis
if i dont have the proc i strike again to get the proc?

[hazy breach]

If you would get the proc when you strike yes

[fiery fog]

okay i get it now
thanks <3

[hallow matrix]

Should you go out of your way to let SHT build up to allow you to proc the apex? or do you just let it natty occur?

[plush roost]

It is legit rotational complexity since ur reacting and tracking your sht buff i hope it stays lowkey. Youre not guaranteed to strike evis strike evis

I dont think theres any sht related pooling anymore now that apex 2 is fixed

[hallow matrix]

Cool, what was the fix?

at one point i swear i read you're gonna have to cancelaura the apex, is that gone now?

[plush roost]

Your apex and sectec clones werent giving correct sht back

At first none, then later only 1 per hit in dance. Now its fully fixed and giving 2 per clone during dance

Due to shadowcraft talent

[hallow matrix]

okay cool

[plush roost]

So you dance, apex sec tec and are instantly up 6 sht

Or normal sec tec and up 4

[warm marlin]

yes

[finite crow]

Ngl i have a feeling sub will be meta season 1

For m+

[brisk onyx]

So we won’t cancel any apex proc now ,right?

[lilac stag]

If it’s meta it’s getting nerfed. This is the way!

[hazy breach]

Technically you might in big aoe with Deathstalker

[slate flume]

From my understanding of how Ancient Arts works it is going to always proc with shuriken storm in aoe situations seeing that will most likely always get more than 6 sht? Then you can use the proc on Black Powder?

[hazy breach]

You wont always have more than 5 sht stacks

[main falcon]

Quick question, do i need a hotkey for Thistle Tea for min max or just use it automatically?

[hazy breach]

But the "use strike at full cp" thing discussed above is ST only

[lilac stag]

You’re never taking tea as a talent.

[hazy breach]

(or well like 2-3 targets too, but not in big aoe)

[slate flume]

Got it so change everything discussed from ss to st in aoe and evis to bp

[hazy breach]

No

If its aoe dont use a builder on 7 cp

[slate flume]

Got it. Thank you!

[lilac stag]

!apex

!soonTM

[west tide]

am i coping thinking i can play without that sectech dance macro bro i swear i press em at the same time

[lilac stag]

this isn’t 10 years ago hitter

[warm marlin]

my professional™ opinion is that very very few people can hit the buttons together fast enough and consistent enough for it not to be worth just getting used to a macro

[hazy breach]

You can just replace your regular dance with this one so you dont really even need a new bind

[plush roost]

It and assa are both in a very dangerous position where theyre both good in m+ for different reasons but will have god awful st in raid leading to what could be an st buff (the current reason both specs werent beta meta) and dominance for us yellow classes

[hazy breach]

When you want to dance during blades but sectech isnt up, you can just hit it anyway, it will still cast dance

[hazy breach]

But only if blue man good

If blue man bad

Then dark skies ahead

[plush roost]

Ele is in a similar position

The stars could align.. .

[hazy breach]

Tbf if you got some giga melee boys you can always force a resto sham in there

Unless its atrocious, but most of the time even the "bad" specs are still fine enough

[plush roost]

Maybe if they buff rshams rot healing but i think rsham cant heal past 18s and some 19s

There is so much rot next season

And thats rshams weakness historically

What could end up happening is brew rdruid rogue ele devour

Was already decent, just not warlock

Or mage

Or bear hpal hehe

Im getting the vibe that next season is gonna be much more similar to tww s2, where you want 2 overall machines and a prio class

Unlike s3

There is just so much aoe with 1 prio in these keys constantly

[brisk onyx]

sorry I don’t understand

[plush roost]

Cancelaura apex dn

[hazy breach]

Buffing eviscerate in big aoe

Not as good as buffing bp

[brisk onyx]

🫡

[west tide]

what about when i wanna shadowdance storm bro and i have 1 cp i cant just use the macro!!

i cant replace my solo dance button

[plush roost]

Good news...

U can macro storm and dance

[hazy breach]

You can make another macro, or you can just not enter dance at low cp

[west tide]

no nooo i wont

[hazy breach]

Because sims say you dont want to do that anyway

As trickyman

[west tide]

i see what about in aoe tho hmm anything is possible

[plush roost]

I put sec tec dance onto my old coldblood bind and kept natty dance and put storm dance whrre symbols was

[west tide]

ok what about i replace my sec tech button with the macro

wait that wont work nvm

[hallow matrix]

why as trickster specifically?

[lilac stag]

Need a pocket shaman though no?

[hazy breach]

The question is rather why deathstalker does not want it. More finishers in dance seems good

[plush roost]

Assa doesnt

[lilac stag]

Replace your CB Sectec macro with dance Sectech

[west tide]

real and true as fuck

wait do we ever press sectech outside of dance

im bad at visualizing my class when im not playing the game dont.. flame me..

[plush roost]

If youre playing 700 haste you send a sex tec at 19 seconds of sblades, whether that is during a dance you held for that period of blades is up to you

[brisk onyx]

we may use bp in ST when pick potent powder and danse, right?

[hazy breach]

You can if you want to

[plush roost]

Ive been doing some weird stuff in aoe lately, ive been doing dance storm apex coup sec tec. Seems insanely strong

[hazy breach]

But its minor enough that simc dont consider it a gain

[plush roost]

I wonder if proccing apex coup no matter what is worth now

[olive canyon]

Wait, i thought sectec>coup in prio

[plush roost]

Im rambling outloud dont mind me

[brisk onyx]

[plush roost]

The logic goes, sec tec 2 seconds off cd, dance storm (1 sec till sec tec) apex coup (sec tec ready) sec tec

[hazy breach]

Probably, i checked a while back if canceling coup apex was worthwhile for more bp but it seemed kinda whatever

But now that it actually does aoe

[plush roost]

Ive also been holding coup at >10 seconds before sec tec

[hazy breach]

Its presumably very strong

[warm marlin]

forcing da robot to do this sort of thing was neutral/0.1% gain back when all the bugs were still in place

maybe better now

*in st

[plush roost]

Yeh in st it shouldnt matter

But if apex coup flurries its like a 2 for 1 special at AoE&W

[warm marlin]

just do dance/sectec -> shiv -> coup ofc

[plush roost]

Yeah lets get shiv back into the box bud

[warm marlin]

[hazy breach]

https://tenor.com/view/barack-obama-gif-14713645611577259969

[warm marlin]

i think i will be an orc

surely on use gets better value at some point

[hazy breach]

I just like panda

[warm marlin]

i can respect panda

[hazy breach]

Used to be panda before big meta forced me to swap

[warm marlin]

the race sim fuu posted didnt have panda high

just not implemented right?

or because of haste food

[frail bone]

what sim?

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message

[hazy breach]

Ye he used 64 secondary stat food

Instead of 50 agility

[fallow anvil]

swapped night elf for levelling cause questing with an extra vanish is cushty, then back to void elf just cause I like the flashy things you can do with the tp

for m+ raiding and pvp at max level

[west tide]

LETS GOOO DWARF

dont need to change..so up

[warm marlin]

my rogue is a raid guy so i ignore dwarf/nelf unless theyre big damage

[chrome palm]

Common velf w

[warm marlin]

i think orc will be good

[torn tide]

sneakiest panda ever

[hazy breach]

Realistically it doesnt matter

Unless you play undead or vulpera theyre all within like 0.5%

[chrome palm]

I played forsaken until tww

[west tide]

i only care about raid but i also love the way dwarf look like with the mop cm gear

also troll..

[hazy breach]

The past 2 expansions the food buff has been horrendously undertuned so panda have sucked, so ive had to endure dwarf or orc

[alpine wraith]

just be human as it becomes better

[bleak night]

https://klipy.com/gifs/wwe-yes-2

[hazy breach]

Fear my quaking palm

[warm marlin]

that's what my 100 human glamours are for

[hazy breach]

2 min cd gauge

[fallow anvil]

Does the panda fall damage reduction stack with the rogue passive one? some funny world pvp clip potential there

[hazy breach]

Yerp

Not additively though, so its 75% reduced

0.5 x 0.5 = 0.25

[torn tide]

kungfu panda if he trained under an assassin/ninja

[fallow anvil]

oooh you only take 25% of the damage of the fall, I was being slow and thought it reduced less

[frail bone]

ive been considering fox just for the bag space

but that is giving up almost 1k dmg

and im not going to be perfect to begin with lol

[fallow anvil]

that'll be less than a single backstab at max level right? probably not gonna make or break a prog kill

[thorny rivet]

Has anything in recent time (last 4 months) happen where a 1h non-dagger in OH is giga bad

[lucid jackal]

ITs been bad to have a non dagger for over like

8 years

[thorny rivet]

smh my head okie doke

[warm marlin]

you can tmog them now though!

biggest buff

[west tide]

omg tomorrow guys ❤️

i laid out my clothes on the bed im ready

[bleak night]

i wont be wearing clothes

[short radish]

fill up your water bottles

empty out your piss boxes

[fallow anvil]

felsteel longblade main hand, then whatever fist weapon is almost invisible in off hand, walking around like a ninja 🥷

[fallow anvil]

milk and cookies out for xal'atath?

[frail bone]

ok seriously though over the course of the tiers as we get more 2ndaries.. what class usually comes out on top. Megagnome usually doesnt stay top does it.

[median wren]

Why is subtlety looking stronger this xpac?, what changed?

[hazy breach]

Hope youre rocking the suit and tie for the expac release

[hazy breach]

Not sure what you mean

[west tide]

im thinking tshirt and some pants perhaps sweats

[short radish]

underwear or nah?

[west tide]

always underwear

[median wren]

I see ppl say that subtltley will outperform other specs

[west tide]

and socks

[median wren]

i dont know, im just coming bac from a long break from rogue

[west tide]

i didnt get snacks

[bleak night]

it will probably outperform other specs

how many other specs who knows

[west tide]

ill have to order some for delivery

[median wren]

i refer to outlaw and asa

[short radish]

sub will definitely be one of the top 3 rogue specs

[bleak night]

well its a given that it'll outperform outlaw

[median wren]

ok, its sub easier now?

[short radish]

definitely yes

[median wren]

what they removed?

[short radish]

flag + symbols + rupture

[median wren]

shadow dance is still part of the rotation??

[short radish]

yes

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

check the wowhead guide

covers most of that

[sullen hare]

Yeah, it's been our bread and butter since like cata lol

[median wren]

I cant recall what symbols was for

I played sub on Dragonflight

[uneven scarab]

energy mostly

it got baked into dance for the most part

[median wren]

and rupture its the same assa ruptere?

[uneven scarab]

and it gave a dam amp

Yea but thats gone

[west tide]

removed buttons but gameplay is a vibe

thats a W

[median wren]

how its the gameplay? do we have to press a lot of buttons or slow like Arms warr

[uneven scarab]

we dont press alot of buttons but its tight, you cant be slow pressing them

its all about fitting globals into ur dance window

[fallow anvil]

I'm still tryna unlearn the muscle memory of piano-ing my keyboard at the start of a dance window luckily I havent changed my binds so the extra button presses don't do shit xD keeping my apm high though haha

[west tide]

lmao it took me a little too

[median wren]

But i see that removing buttons its part of all classses this xpac

to make the game more friendly no?

[west tide]

i still have a free bind where rupture and symbols were

and flag

[fallow anvil]

yeah same, they're like a gravestone right now

[fallow anvil]

got to bring in more subs to keep shareholders happy

[olive canyon]

what is the reason for having multiple dance macros now? and is there ever a situation in which you wouldnt want to enter dance and sec tec immediately?

[uneven scarab]

I cant bring myself to put anything on the flag spot

Miss him

[median wren]

sub will be good on raid?

[hazy breach]

Second dance of blades sectech wont be ready

[olive canyon]

would a macro that puts you in to dance and hits sectec still not work, it just wont use sectec - what is the downside to one keybind there?

[fallow anvil]

oh, so you dont even hold SB for sectech?

[maiden oar]

2nd dance in shadow blades

opener dance can have a builder too

[hazy breach]

second

Sectech cd is longer than your dance duration

[maiden oar]

didnt read im noob

[olive canyon]

so its a global effeciency thing - so you want a macro for SS/dance and one for Sectec/Dance - any others worth having? BP?

[maiden oar]

if u wanna go crazy u can do bp/dance evisc/dance storm/dance sectech/dance

but only storm sectech are really necessary

[fallow anvil]

oh you mean the second dance inside of SB? I thought you meant the second SB in an encounter

[jaunty heath]

why is DS opening with builder in dance and trickter with sectech btw?

i miss the info

[uneven scarab]

ds likes to start dance at low cp and im not sure we have the exact reason yet but its likely due to strike

If i had to make a guess

[jaunty heath]

yeah but than whats opener like

you go strike from stealth to apply mark anyway

than you do what

[swift tinsel]

Evisc then dance+storm

Blades trinkets etc

[jaunty heath]

but why

[swift tinsel]

Bc stone cold said so

[uneven scarab]

On jah

[swift tinsel]

The robot says it does more damage for ds to start dance with no cp

Some stuff under the hood

[jaunty heath]

i just dont get it cos opener strike evis cds dance storm sectech instead just strike cds dance sectech is weird

[swift tinsel]

Welcome to midnight

[jaunty heath]

its little bit confusing but rather than have different 4 dance macro i think i will just press my stuff fast 😄

[uneven scarab]

U only really NEED 1 dance macro

And then a naked dance one

[swift tinsel]

^

[maiden oar]

im using 5 bc im insane

[swift tinsel]

Hell yeah

[maiden oar]

[jaunty heath]

the dance macro wont save you anyway from missing GCD

[maiden oar]

it will

[swift tinsel]

I thought about it but I just have them all on binds that are very cozy to press together

[uneven scarab]

Thats the whole point of it

[maiden oar]

theres usually a .2s to .4s margin to get last gcd in dance

[swift tinsel]

Yeah it like

Specifically helps with that lol

[jaunty heath]

you can press macro before your GCD is free and it will cast dance before ability 😄

[maiden oar]

bc its like 6.2s dance length due to the way haste works

so u want to enter dance and press a global at the exact same time

to make it easy to hit the gcd at like 6.0xs into dance

[jaunty heath]

for me personally is easier running no macro

[maiden oar]

or 6.4 bc of coup

[uneven scarab]

thats just something you have to get used to

[maiden oar]

but thats the reaon

[uneven scarab]

but yeah no ones forcing you to use them

[maiden oar]

yeah its better to wait for the gcd to not be free

bc if u lose a 10th of a gcd doing that 10 times in a row

[short radish]

i am

[uneven scarab]

YIKES

[maiden oar]

the gcd u dont get at the end of the fight could be backstab

[short radish]

[uneven scarab]

[maiden oar]

if u miss a 10th of a gcd doing it manually and u coup in that dance

u guaranteed lose a dance gcd

or have to do weird haste tiering to make it more forgivi g

so waiting for gcd to be ready and then firing macro mitigates a disaster loss every time and it might add up to losing a gcd outside of dance anyway if u delay it too long 10 times in a row

[jaunty heath]

im use to use dance symbols and spell at same gcd for some years, surely i can hit just dance and ability within 0.1

[maiden oar]

if u wanna u can

all im saying is messing that up once is infinitely more punishing than pressing the macro that amt of time after the gcd comes up 10x in a row (in terms of ev)

[tough knot]

i opened a random rogue stream and they had the DFA icon on teir CDM, what is that? Nostalgia baiting?

[maiden oar]

trickster hero talent

[tough knot]

Oh did they reuse the icon for coup?

[uneven scarab]

[plush roost]

Eleem wowhead post incoming

... Eleem is typing...

[hazy breach]

The earlier you use Sectech the less likely you are to have you Unseen Blades (and thus coup) be delayed until after your dance ends

[plush roost]

Fk

[hazy breach]

I do not write the wowhead guide

[plush roost]

Its over

Wait

Oh ur icyveins right

[uneven scarab]

ya that’s fuu

[hazy breach]

Thats the wrong icon, but whatever im not gonna edit

[jaunty heath]

i understand the tricskter part as we used sectech first global for whole TWW but the DS is confusing

[plush roost]

Close enough

Blue and cold

[hazy breach]

Im not sure either

But robot is very very confident

[jaunty heath]

in robot we trust

[hazy breach]

I did however PR the default profile for simc/bloodmallet

But im obviously not the first, Publik is way too ontop of these things

Hes too OP

[torn tide]

most of the stuff on wowhead is already updated to midnight right?

also did yall get rid of the tabs where it shows BIS from raid and BIS from mythic?

[bleak night]

its just one overall bis list now yes

[astral axle]

midnight? bro it is 7:14 PM

[hazy breach]

2:15 AM

I am from the future

[astral axle]

this guy's a CHEATER!

[bleak night]

how was midnight

[fallow anvil]

1:16 here unfair headstart

[torn tide]

9.16am, i am even further into the future

[hazy breach]

Fuck he reacted to my message with a soypoint emote

Its over

[fallow anvil]

[astral axle]

I removed it sorry 😭

[bleak night]

wtf

[torn tide]

hes too strong....

[bleak night]

hes almost got midnight already

[astral axle]

.... !

[tribal blade]

we're in the same timezone

[fallow anvil]

How common is the knowledge that 30 min timezone diffs exist? asking to feel less/more dumb depending on consensus

[tribal blade]

i think it's like a 2-3 hour flight to where you live from HK

[torn tide]

the next nerf is gonna be a full removal of the class

[torn tide]

come over and we'll grind wow in the same room like that south park episode

[tribal blade]

LOL

[short radish]

not very common

there's not that many places that have it

[torn tide]

https://tenor.com/view/everyone-ready-kyle-broflovski-kenny-mccormick-stan-marsh-eric-cartman-gif-20869572

[short radish]

that acutally matter on the global scale

[bleak night]

i didnt know it existed until this moment

[tribal blade]

how do you not know that's what i'm like already solo

[torn tide]

great life ngl

id be exactly like that if i could

[fallow anvil]

well, based on this sample size I feel better 🤣

[astral axle]

eleem ive reviewed icyveins guide and it doesnt mention how to be as cool as you any tips?

[bleak night]

i thought icyveins would shut down once the spell got removed

[torn tide]

nah nah , the thing is that he doesnt even know how hes doing it, hes just naturally that cool without doing anything

[astral axle]

i laughed real big real hard when i read this

[fallow anvil]

the site name becomes "tooltip not found"

[analog plank]

Mfw Sub with 80% Haste go brrrr

https://tenor.com/view/ascension-sponge-bob-gif-15077046

[fallow anvil]

Just got a mental image of stacking all haste, dance always up but you attacking with wet noodles xD

[analog plank]

Best part is its Builder into 2 Finishers back to back

[jaunty heath]

guys one more sleep and midnight is here

[swift tinsel]

Will probs actually go live 24hrs from now

If not longer lol

[graceful osprey]

I’ve ran manaforge so many times….im ready for midnight

[modest snow]

when combat is ongoing (and there's not a pull right after in m+) I always send the second shadow dance charge if I dont have to hold for shadow blades correct?

[smoky goblet]

looking at the wowhead guide, did haste breakpoint change again? not ~35% anymore? or was 35% just the prepatch stuff

[alpine wraith]

just prepatch

[smoky goblet]

ty

[fallow anvil]

Int stacking sub rogues in shambles

[short radish]

guess im a dumb dumb now

[fallow anvil]

https://giphy.com/gifs/RobertsSpaceIndustries-star-citizen-starcitizen-always-has-been-090EX1YvSUXxy23Tty

at least for me

[short radish]

same brotherman

monkey together strong

[fallow anvil]

https://giphy.com/gifs/ponkehq-solana-ponke-ponkesol-RVCGgpabpLh1NQIClw

[hardy orchid]

Nerf Arms

[fallow anvil]

https://giphy.com/gifs/the-simpsons-stop-hes-already-dead-JCAZQKoMefkoX6TyTb

[hardy orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-meme-spongebob-spongebob-ice-cream-truck-spongebon-crashed-spongebob-hold-on-gif-10436656614678318733

early access is TOMORROW?!?

i thought it was friday

[west tide]

tomorrow 3pm pst

[fallow anvil]

11pm gmt pulling an all nighter and hoping I dont fuck my sleep schedule too much for work on saturday

[hardy orchid]

im calling iut that isssssss

3pm for me , pst

[floral geyser]

server will probably be fried dtomarrow until night

[odd sandal]

How does the BP/Coup macro work?

[hazy breach]

Because of the janky way theyve coded coup you dont "know" the spell until its procced

So you can macro two on-gcd spells together despite normally not being able to

But idk, i wouldnt really recommend it as theres definitely moments where you'd want to hold coup

[odd sandal]

And then still use BP, or Eviscerate? In multi target.

[hazy breach]

BP does aoe damage, eviscerate does not

So yes you use BP in aoe

[odd sandal]

Why wouldn't they just add BP to Evis in the tooltip, to use Coup?

[hazy breach]

What

[odd sandal]

Tooltip says "your next Eviscerate", but if BP works too, why not just add it to the tooltip. Or am I not comprehending it correctly?

[hazy breach]

BP does not work with coup

Coup is an empowered eviscerate

[odd sandal]

Yeah, then I'm not understanding the BP/Coup macro like I mentioned earlier.

[hazy breach]

You press it

It casts BP

if coup is up

It casts coup

[neon escarp]

oh thats helpful sometimes i guess, is the macro pinned ?

[uneven scarab]

You use coup in aoe , you dont use evisc in aoe

[pulsar sandal]

Just started playing sub and trying to figure out how everyone sets up there bars for when I’m and out of stealth. Any tips.

[hazy breach]

Exactly the same as outside stealth

and/or use an addon to make it so your bars doesnt shift

[unreal musk]

do you hold coup when you know your going to SD in 10 sec?

[hazy breach]

No

But if theres 2 mobs left on 5% hp before a big pull, do you really want to use your coup?

[unreal musk]

Ahhh thats what you mean by moment where you hold

i thought it was in rotation wise

[dire ravine]

Mimic it to what you want out of stealth. Its not too bad. Then add the extra rogue utility abilities to a small 3rd bar that you can adjust, tack on, or place elsewhere

[thorny ridge]

Many classes received bug fixes, did Rogue get something undocumented?

[tribal blade]

i assume DS will be better for leveling

[sterile vessel]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jaunty heath]

undocumented more bugs at best

[dry plank]

They revert rogue bugfixes 🙂

[tribal blade]

don't even put that out in the universe

[plush roost]

bad news buddy

[night sparrow]

Did I miss something about sub rework or we truly went from "use 2 dances between every shadow blades whenever you want" to "press CD when it's up" .. ?

[tribal blade]

oh no

don't say it

[plush roost]

okay i wont

[tribal blade]

no hit me

hit me hard

[plush roost]

https://tenor.com/view/penguin-penguins-penguin-love-penguin-hug-slapping-gif-24271495

[tribal blade]

the suspense is killing me

[tribal blade]

press it the instant sectec comes off cd yeah

[plush roost]

nah im just trolling u idk

[tribal blade]

i also just realized they changed the 1st boss in skyreach since i last tested it thank god

[plush roost]

i been busy havent beta'd much last 2 days

1st boss?

[tribal blade]

haha it's all good you've done enough

[tribal blade]

yeah when he would split the room in 4

[plush roost]

they did a bunch of bug fixing today i heard

[tribal blade]

oh dope

[plush roost]

ye some good some uh

made keys harder

seat first boss for example

cant banish/kidney/cc the blobs and jump on them now

[tribal blade]

oh gross

[torn tide]

isnt seat already like one of the harder dungeons in midnight

its joever

[tribal blade]

yeah i think it still sucks

sucked during legion

[tribal blade]

no rogue bugfixes documented but they historically don't announce sub bug fixes for whatever reason

so there's a shot we got some

[plush roost]

maybe

i was sandbagging assa this whole time apparently and have just been missing out on a ton of damage so i was trying that today lol

[fallow nimbus]

Maybe our bugs are either fixed or don't and they don't know, so they don't get announced

[tribal blade]

oh what were you doing wrong

maybe i'm doing it wrong too

[plush roost]

i was missing 40% poison damage for a worse talent

cause someone said it mathed that way and i just took their word for it

[tribal blade]

oh yeah that talent is kinda insane

[plush roost]

LMAO

[tribal blade]

haha oh no

yeah i think that talent used to be 10%

?

[plush roost]

yeah

[tribal blade]

and they x4ed it

which is pretty nuts

[plush roost]

and lethal dose is nerfed too

thats what i was playing instead

[tribal blade]

ahhh i see

[plush roost]

only applies to your dots

so envenom isnt amped anymore

[tribal blade]

ohhhhh shit

[plush roost]

good spec btw.

just 60% prio dam its fine

gonna be buffed after heroic week

WHAT COULD GO WRONG

[tribal blade]

yeah sin's prio is really really good

[fallow anvil]

wait, which talent?

[tribal blade]

i dunno how they nerf sin's prio

because it's spread out across the entire spec

[plush roost]

fatal conc instead of lethal dose

[brisk onyx]

Don’t say this

[tribal blade]

i actually dunno how they nerf it easily

[brisk onyx]

[tribal blade]

it's this combo of so many diff things

[fallow anvil]

oooooh! Yeah

[tribal blade]

for sub they just shot combo and that was 1 thing

with sin they would need to shoot so many things

[plush roost]

you can start with this talent

[tribal blade]

lol true

[plush roost]

if they have to

[tribal blade]

that would be the easiest to do 1st

[plush roost]

which i dont think they should

[fallow anvil]

What does lethal max out at? 4% for dots only?

[tribal blade]

i guess they could buff bleeds+poisons and nerf envenom

they've done that in the past

[tepid trellis]

scent

[tribal blade]

MMM truie

maybe change scent to be like 10% or something

instead of 20

[plush roost]

nerf scent u nerf aoe and its now just a worse class

you'd have to nerf scent and buff a ton of other stuff

[tepid trellis]

you nerf scent and compensate in the bleed dmg

[tribal blade]

nvm it's actually simpler than i thought

[tepid trellis]

its never really hard to tune something

or well how to go about it i should say

getting the numbers right

is the hard part

[plush roost]

ye

[tribal blade]

i decided i'm going to lvl my remix rogue for our splits

[fallow anvil]

Holy fuck I am dumb, the convo was about aoe. but even so would still need 10 targets to match, unless there is a cap

[tribal blade]

not gonna do another class

[fallow anvil]

more targets infact, since it doesnt effect envenom

[tribal blade]

i looked at overall with concoction talented and wep poisons do nutty dmg with it

[plush roost]

it maxes out at 8% per target if they have all 4 dots on them

2x is 2%

but fatal conc is uh

quite strong

and makes ur st better

[tribal blade]

yeah quadrupling a talent can make it good haha

before it was almost never taken iirc