subtlety

[warm marlin]

even if it's legit the best spec in the game or top3 it won't be meta because (previously) no one would reroll to it

i promise outlaw was top3 dps in tww2

[shrewd lantern]

unless the community is brainrotted thinking shroud is mandatory

like in bfa

for even lower keys

[azure thicket]

heard that one lol

[swift tinsel]

with them adding truesight everywhere shroud value is wayyyyy down

[shrewd lantern]

Well bfa dungeon counts were fucked too

[reef walrus]

tbh shroud was really nice to have in early days of m+

[shrewd lantern]

You never used it in legion

[swift tinsel]

also many pug tanks aren't gonna wanna learn 2 routes for rogue vs non-rogue comp

[reef walrus]

mostly bfa

[shrewd lantern]

whats a route

my pug route is hold w

[keen dome]

my pug route is I hold S.

[swift tinsel]

[azure thicket]

ye routes are literally lust lust lust time it

idk boss before trash has never been attempted yet

as far as i can tell

[shrewd lantern]

i hate m+ streamers

guarantee when some pug tank does some cooked ass pull

it was because some streamer did it

[swift tinsel]

that's not the streamers fault

[azure thicket]

well big momma is right there i guess

[swift tinsel]

that's the pugs fault for being an idiot

[keen dome]

Thinking back to.. uh. DF S2? When we had Underrot. And the MDI happened. And people did INSANE pulls up to first boss, right?

[shrewd lantern]

💀

[keen dome]

And then every pug I joined, even like, +5's, were trying to do it

[chrome palm]

Pugs are just stupid

[keen dome]

It was really funny

[shrewd lantern]

How often did someone get frontaled by the boss

[keen dome]

They never made it to the boss

[chrome palm]

Do you know how many times I had a brain dead pug tank do some dogshit Ele route because “they timed it on 22 with this”?

[keen dome]

You'd wipe way before that

[chrome palm]

With no Ele in group

[keen dome]

Big fan of a +3 trying to do the candle king stair skip, too

And losing more time failing it than they would've just fighting the trash

[azure thicket]

idk the gap between a 16 and an 18 felt pretty good except on priory

[shrewd lantern]

lmao every group insisted tht stair jump was mandatory

then i watch someone fail it

and bodypull the pack

[azure thicket]

something about the healer check after a boss fight was diabalical lmao

[shrewd lantern]

the worst part is why do people bodypull then stand there

not moving

[keen dome]

Shock, shame

A big thing you find at lower key levels, esp with newer or inexperinced players, is that. Or they bodypull and run away.

Instead of running to the tank

[swift tinsel]

my 13th reason

running all across god's green earth

[azure thicket]

they don't stack on kill targets without coms too

[keen dome]

You do a huge pull. Everyone is on the stack. Except the mage. Who is standing at MAXIMUM RANGE.

[swift tinsel]

its not so bad if its just one but if its a pack its rip

[keen dome]

And then the pack charges.

[swift tinsel]

yeah I wish I had tank lifegrip I stg

[azure thicket]

tirna scythe ranged getting munched on that first pull

[swift tinsel]

lol

[azure thicket]

aha

[swift tinsel]

lmao ye

just dogpiled and deleted

[keen dome]

Big "LEARN YOUR LESSON" moments

I generally hate it when ranged stand at max range

[swift tinsel]

ye unless there's a reason not to be stacked or even nearby its kinda wild

[keen dome]

yeah

[shrewd lantern]

no they stand in melee

when they shouldnt

[swift tinsel]

the mage terrorist blink

[shrewd lantern]

bring back quaking so i can watch dumb ranged die

from standing on me

[keen dome]

ahaha

[azure thicket]

nah watching ranged in siege of boralus flub the first boss wasn't nearly as funny though

[swift tinsel]

omg

[azure thicket]

having to wait 5-8 minutes to see if that why your key depleted was cringe

[swift tinsel]

marble brained kiting

[azure thicket]

ye troll ranged early lol

[oblique sequoia]

Does anyone have a good pvp build? Murlok.io needs few hrs more to update it :/

[lilac stag]

Wrong channel

#pvp

[oblique sequoia]

Didnt saw the channel earlier

[lilac stag]

No worries

[finite current]

Big question, I was using the weakauras for Tricks to tank automatically is there something like that or may I create a macro like it was done before?

[swift tinsel]

you can macro it

if you have your party frames sorted by role

like /cast [@party1] Tricks

[alpine wraith]

or be chaotic and tricks the healer

instead

[finite current]

Like @party1 and those commands?

[swift tinsel]

I actually do have one for our holy paladin lol

[swift tinsel]

ye exactly

[finite current]

That would be damn good tbh

xD

[lilac stag]

Tricks the mage. They have no defensives.

[finite current]

Always the mages, got it

[fresh portal]

why does DS want to SD at low CP but Trickster want to SD at high?

[alpine wraith]

trickster wants to use sec tech as soon as possible to get stacks of flawless from unseens

in DS it is whatever

but there may be other reasons

[chrome palm]

i wouldnt worry about what is good for ds you wont be playing it in midnight

and doing low-cp dances isnt going to make a world of different in prepatch content

[lilac stag]

Just don’t play deathstalker

[finite current]

Kekw

[chrome palm]

i dont think its clear why they prefer different things

[finite current]

Shall we come back to trickster?

[alpine wraith]

yea ds was ahead because there was a bugged talent kinda

[chrome palm]

i mean do you wanna get gapped by 50% or by 48% from a DDH in prepatch

[lilac stag]

We never left

[chrome palm]

thats the choice you have, one of them is just significantly more annoying to play

[alpine wraith]

now they are almost the same everywhere or trickster is better in midnight

[finite current]

That hits hard tho xD

[alpine wraith]

and after the storm for unseen fix

they have almost the same prio too

now if they buff deathstalker we are donezo tho

[lilac stag]

If you want to int and play deathstalker with idk tea. Have fun.

[chrome palm]

maybe they do the tww thing where they keep DS bad on purpose

because they wont rework it

[alpine wraith]

just in case before a dungeon duel a paladin and make them bubble

so you can enjoy not having mark

until you log off and then in again

[lilac stag]

My dream is zero DS play by both sub & assa

[alpine wraith]

i find funny they nerfed momentum

then buffed it again

numbers what are these!

[lilac stag]

assa will probably fuck it up

[alpine wraith]

sub and assa have diff numbers in ds for a while i think

[chrome palm]

for assa/outlaw its really funny

[alpine wraith]

dont think even blizz keeps track

[chrome palm]

your choice in hero talent is: one that gives you extra resources and more movement vs janky annoying hero talent thats starved for energy/cp and cant target swap well

on both specs

[finite current]

Even for ST are we goin to use Trickster? I mean there's lots of rogues using DS

[lilac stag]

Yes. They’re close enough

[chrome palm]

deathstalker is probably better for prepatch

by some margin

at least in pure st

[lilac stag]

idk. They summed like 300 dps different

Maybe it was 200

[chrome palm]

it was like 10% when i simmed it last so thats interesting

[azure thicket]

deathstalker is preferred in raid but the 1st best trinket determines where you end up on meters tbh

[finite current]

Not aiming for prepatch when we doin freaking love fool's event tho xD

[lilac stag]

yeah I didn’t deep dive into it but tried the two and FI vs CB

[finite current]

Do u guys have the talents code of ST and M+s of trickster tho?

[lilac stag]

Wowhead

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[azure thicket]

black powder is still kinda jank since you need 3 in cds to justify it

it's a weird and goofy thing to get hung up on

[vale pine]

you use bp on 2+

storm is 3+ in cooldowns

strike is good ^^

[azure thicket]

buh

[lilac stag]

@chrome palm I’ll leak the DMs

[vale pine]

its not a secret

its !sheet

[chrome palm]

forgot theres a sheet

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

I know. It just sounds funny to me.

[vale pine]

#subtlety message

the before after patch sims

just don't assume its a perfect sim, i just re-simmed for the talent change

[warm depot]

needed the 8% aura nerf krappa

[vale pine]

we still have rly good cooldown alignment on the last 2 fights

too bad, nerfs might make this irrelevant

[chrome palm]

pirate time lfg

[vale pine]

potentially means rogue in general is worse off

(even tho it does not matter much)

[warm depot]

wont ever catch me playing pirate my hands are too slow for that

[chrome palm]

yeah we are gutter for rest of prepatch just log in for your participation trophy and get carried to victory

if you ask in outlaw

theyll tell you its slower than sin now

[crystal bone]

ye i became unc status 3 years ago

[acoustic ginkgo]

anyone have beta numbers with apex talents?

[warm depot]

🧢

[lilac stag]

You know the ApM for sub and gunslinger are relatively close.

[chrome palm]

gunslinger hahaha

[torn tide]

are some dungeons bugged rn?

[warm depot]

stop ruining my predetermined ideas

[azure thicket]

i have to send a 20 floodgate now

[hazy breach]

Numbers for what

[torn tide]

priory's last boss seems to not give a shit if i look away from blinding light or not

[lilac stag]

It makes it sound more fun. Again for my own entertainment purposes.

[warm depot]

yeah

known bug

someone posted it on the subreddit earlier LMAO

[azure thicket]

[warm depot]

just cloak it 4head

[chrome palm]

wait until you find out what cloak does on beta in half the dungeons

[torn tide]

lmfao fair but i think she does it more frequently than my cloak's cd

[torn tide]

is it nothing? or everything lmao

[chrome palm]

https://tenor.com/view/fresh-prince-room-empty-alone-will-s-mith-gif-11321840

[warm depot]

xdd

[chrome palm]

you press cloak and still take ticking shadow damage rlly cool

[warm depot]

but its okay guys rogues fine

[chrome palm]

they bugfix surely

[finite current]

"I mean how does a cloak just protect you from everything?" - Blizzard, 2026

xD

Ain't no way

[chrome palm]

i have tried cloak on 2 different heal absorbs and it did nothing both times

[warm depot]

theyve been ignoring mechanics for too long guys

gotta nerf it

[finite current]

Yeah

[hazy breach]

Very common for cloak to be bugged as hell in keys

[torn tide]

[chrome palm]

well it does nothing on the paladin boss in raid too from when it ested

[finite current]

That was kinda op for normal people

[torn tide]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[finite current]

Divine shield should be the same

Sheeeeeesh

[azure thicket]

cloak on flood would miss the boss mines occasionally

[chrome palm]

that might be a 1s thing

[astral axle]

sheetcret

[azure thicket]

but it seemed like netcode issue

[torn tide]

wee still kinda stacked on bugs

[hazy breach]

Cloak almost never works against ground effects in keys for some reason

[fresh portal]

Sub guide says "We shift to a multi-target priority at 3 targets," but then unde AOE it says "Start using Aoe spells with 2 or more targets."

So do we AOE spells in 2 or 3 targets? lol

[hazy breach]

Strike on 2, storm on 3

BP on 2

[alpine wraith]

they need to whitelist many things now

[finite current]

They'll be fixing bugs till Last Titan, of course the last one would be the cloak one

[alpine wraith]

remember several situations cloak gets funny

[astral axle]

i've swapped my bp button from shift+z to 2

and it is like my wrist pain has gone away

[warm depot]

bp will always be alt 4 for me

[azure thicket]

immune to magic > removes debuff >

[astral axle]

what do you press alt with your thumb or ring fingy or something else

[warm depot]

thumb

[bleak night]

ring finger wtf

[torn tide]

how have u been playing it with shift+z

[finite current]

Shift - 3 It's for me tho

Easy to get to it

[torn tide]

mine is T

[warm depot]

id like to think i have regular keybinds but then my friends tell me im psycho for using alt+shift as a modifier for some things

[finite current]

tbh I use them too

[astral axle]

Being able to comfortably press shift + z is a sign of utmost discernment

[finite current]

Control/Shift/Alt as modifiers tho

[astral axle]

far beyond that of the layman

[bleak night]

i dont think i'd use alt+shift as a modifier itself

maybe for something i rarely pressed if i absolutely needed a bind maybe

[warm depot]

my kick used to be alt shift 1 and blind was alt shift 2

[bleak night]

ok well

[warm depot]

then i moved it to m5

[finite current]

Yoink

[bleak night]

thats a little cursed

[warm depot]

im use dto insane hotkeys

i used to play dota with legacy hotkeys LOL

[finite current]

My kick is just F

I mean, easy to get to it, and fast enough

[astral axle]

F is my mouseover set focus

[bleak night]

my kick is alt+2 which is not exactly ideal but ive done it for too long to change now

[finite current]

My alt-2 it's our beloved Cloak

The one who does nothing in Midnight, that's it

[warm depot]

ctrl 4 is cloak

ctrl 5 is evasion

[finite current]

I cannot reach 5 too easy tho

Are u playing on a Huntsman mini?

xD

[warm depot]

big hands i guess i can reach 7 np

[tulip light]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[finite current]

Oh ma gawd

I can barely reach 5

So I play around 1 2 3

Also playing on a Blackwidow hits hard tho

[warm depot]

i cant stand razer stuff

[finite current]

I mean they're not bad at all but meh

Get used to it

[lilac stag]

The only alt keybind you need is alt-f4 when you realize blizzard just fucking with us

[warm depot]

true

[alpine wraith]

some of us are just here for the love of the game to see how it ends

[warm depot]

or playing valve games just press f10 lol

[lilac stag]

Gimme arc StarCraft now please

[warm depot]

didnt they say theyre working wit hnexon

[alpine wraith]

there are still starcraft tornies

[warm depot]

for a starcraft shooter

[lilac stag]

They are.

[warm depot]

that sounds cursed

[lilac stag]

but working on and actually coming out. glhf

It’s like waiting on blue rogue notes

[torn tide]

monsterous fingers

[torn tide]

theyre getting there

[lilac stag]

I think you know how it ends

https://tenor.com/view/explosion-mushroom-cloud-atomic-bomb-bomb-boom-gif-4464831

[torn tide]

the cinematic was so cool and then i got on to so many bugs lmfao

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/burnout-speed-off-getaway-orkin-gif-15084171

[muted girder]

so uhhh is anyone elses sim way more than an 8% loss after patch? i was simming 34k and some change and am now simming 28100 lol

[hazy breach]

Either your old sim was from before they did bugfixes or the bugfixes was never applied to prepatch raidbots

Either way its kinda whatever as the expanions is coming out in 2 weeks

[lilac stag]

Ya lost 3 talent points essentially as well

[torn tide]

surely the stuff gets fixed before that

[muted girder]

yeah i know we lost the talent points. but its like 19% loss lmao.

34k sim was from sunday also. just seems wild

[hazy breach]

Probably not

[torn tide]

yea i should probably start accepting that fact

but hey atleast we'll be able to play with apexes

[swift tinsel]

I'm surprised they didn't brick the whole Strike with Full CP for Apex thing yet

[hazy breach]

8% from nerf, ~6% from precise killer fix, ~4% from no CB

Makes sense

[hazy breach]

Its a minor thing, there was a bug in simc that made it look insane

But its like +0.5% or something

[lilac stag]

I think stat scaling with ilvl adjusted as well

[swift tinsel]

oh that's not so bad then

[hazy breach]

Ye maybe, because the precise killer thing shouldve been in a while ago

But idk

[fallow nimbus]

i lost like 10 haste and am not on 35% anymore

[swift tinsel]

thats like one gem

[lilac stag]

I have to look at logs to see what I was at last week

[fallow nimbus]

yeah, but where is it gone to?

[lilac stag]

squished

Or further squished

[hazy breach]

For some reason it seems like weaponmaster strikes are still bugged and doing way more than they should on the prepatch, despite that not being the case on beta

[lilac stag]

Goremaw’s return!

It’s legion 2.0

[hazy breach]

Well goremaw does less damage than strike

[muted girder]

Pretty much starting to look like rogue for raid and dk for m+ pushing lol.

[lilac stag]

Just dk both

[fallow nimbus]

wait, didn't mana oil give 15 haste per application?

[muted girder]

Im the only dude in my guild that rogues. so Im stuck in it zzzz

[lilac stag]

Go recruit someone from assa

[hazy breach]

Subs gonna be fine in keys too, as long as you play with a shaman

Its not like theyre gonna stop and never do any more tuning now

[tulip light]

wasnt rogue some comp with rsham, war, monk etc anyways? like the meele comp

[fallow nimbus]

ok, log from yesterday says i had 370 haste, now its 356

[muted girder]

Yeah, but trying to push rank 1 as a pug rogue is already insanely hard... let alone when they kinda bricked

[muted girder]

nah, the one pos of playing rogue in my guild is ill never get sat because im the only one

[hazy breach]

o push rank 1 as a non-meta pug rogue is already insanely hard... let alone when they kinda bricked

If you want to pug title you have to either be very stubborn or reroll to fotm

Thats just how it is, and how its always been

[azure thicket]

are we still using vers flask or haste flask

every log i looked at showed at least 330 haste and 100 extra agi which i figured was a trinket

[muted girder]

lmao trust me i know, i go through it every season. Last season i got title was season 1 dragonflight when outlaw was super strong in pugs

[hazy breach]

But idk rogue was good throughout tww

Both s1 and s2 rogue was like the 4th best spec, slightly worse in s3 though

[azure thicket]

idk gear is just whatever they decided to roll need on before prepatch

[lilac stag]

The weapon embellishment on beta is just the dagger right? No 1h?

[hazy breach]

THere is a bleed dagger

If thats what you are talking about

[lilac stag]

ye

Crafted right

[hazy breach]

Yes

[muted girder]

yeah i pushed 3200 s1 and 3450 s2. it just gets to a point you stop getting invited if you arent meta spec.. and sitting in lfg for hours gets old for a single inv then so dummy bricking the key 1st pull

[shrewd lantern]

i mean after a point you should really be networking

[hazy breach]

I pugged s1 and most of s2

[shrewd lantern]

adding people who are good

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade found you a new friend

[alpine wraith]

yea remember when people are classist

you can always become the classist

me when i only invite shaman warriors druids and dhs/monks

[hazy breach]

But like, theres no way of knowing what spec is gonna be the best right now

Because theyll just do some random tuning and flip everything on its head anyway

[alpine wraith]

mages? never heard of em

[lilac stag]

DS Assa

[muted girder]

Haha for sure. I have a ton of people on the friends list... but sadly most rank 1s look and like oh you playing rogue again. we dont want that 🤣

[alpine wraith]

hunters? what are those dk? is that a snack

get worse friends

[lilac stag]

What still has defensives? DK, Sub Rogue, …?

[alpine wraith]

mages get to enjoy only having block like god intended

the graphs will look funny first raid

[shrewd lantern]

hacha implying most pressed anything else

[azure thicket]

ignore the code of conduct reminder make calls from the chest

[shrewd lantern]

99% of the time

[lilac stag]

I’ll be enjoying life if tanky DPS ends up as 1% meta

[azure thicket]

it's definitely there this season because they're worried about raging from discerning players

[hazy breach]

DHs are still fairly tanky, just no immunity

[lilac stag]

Hunter should be decent still

[hazy breach]

If they play dark ranger for sure

[shrewd lantern]

was nether even that strong

[swift tinsel]

do they still have turtle and 2x sotf

[shrewd lantern]

i always felt havoc was better at rot damage than big hits

[lilac stag]

well kinda hard for sv to play ranger

[hazy breach]

I mean sometimes

Better to have options than to not have options

[swift tinsel]

need to have blade dance grant iframes for skill

[azure thicket]

the missed count* ele sham is worth 3 of us in a 21 at 30m and you're sending 5 paladins and a caster after a boss

we're in a 17 ;y

[vale pine]

we had multiple seasons you could push title on rogue, it was just way worse for the last xpac

[sick basin]

Surv is pretty tanky atm

[swift tinsel]

havoc double dance feels awesome with apex tho

looking forward to that

[lilac stag]

Did you figure it what you’re playing?

[swift tinsel]

Rogue main dh alt

As great as unholy looks and sounds the gameplay itself isn’t enough to carry the fantasy for me

I’ve just been really enjoying Inertia havoc

[cursive vapor]

peak combo

[swift tinsel]

And getting Bigger Beam and double blade dance has been quite fun on beta

[upbeat garden]

Devourer is my shit now

[velvet jay]

With the small buffs for Deathstalker and the small nerfs for Trickster, is Trickster still better for Aoe? or do you need to go deathstalker all the time for M+?

[torn tide]

that was my combo too but i have too little time to go learn new dh stuff

[graceful osprey]

What if we can do double non lethal poisons again and buff poisons and/or add some new ones?

[muted girder]

devourer is very fun. intertia on the other hand... this man a psycho that shit is awful

[fathom adder]

When i do the double dance-blades opener with 35% haste and chain the two dances directly togheter, the second sectec will be my 3rd finisher in dance, because it has like 5 seconds left on its cd. Is that just normal or do you wait a little bit with the second dance charge?

[torn tide]

even tho its probably mind numbing 3 buttons

[swift tinsel]

What can I say I like burst damage windows

[muted girder]

same i love a good burst. but inertia feels so awful gameplay wise imo for a burst window

[ebon pawn]

i was wondering the same thing

[left ledge]

What’s inertia

[swift tinsel]

Havoc mover build

[left ledge]

Momentum?

[swift tinsel]

the other one

higher % short duration

[left ledge]

Idk other one I haven’t looked at havoc dh talents in a LONG time

[muted girder]

i like how devour does with suffering. getting the buff after void rey

[left ledge]

There’s two momentum?

Wtf lol

[swift tinsel]

yeah there's one thats 5% for 20 sec or 18% for 5 sec

[left ledge]

Oh that’s quite different than momentum

Isn’t momentum just on rush and retreat

[swift tinsel]

a while ago they split it up

[velvet jay]

Does anyone know this?

[left ledge]

Ah

I guess because people didn’t like movement havoc being the play?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[left ledge]

Trickster apparently is best in all scenarios other than prio damage

But you lose a lot of overall for the prio

[swift tinsel]

they also basically turned Essence Break into Lash so its just damage when you Chaos Strike or Blade Dance

[lilac stag]

We never went DS EVER

[left ledge]

Oh wow

Like perma?

Or you put it on still

[lilac stag]

where the fuck is the DS stuff coming from?

[uneven scarab]

pvpers prob

[uneven scarab]

they always play ds

[swift tinsel]

its still a 40sec cd

[lilac stag]

What asshat YouTuber put out some shit short

[left ledge]

Ooh ok

[left ledge]

Me

[swift tinsel]

also people might be asking bc they buffed DS aoe

[lilac stag]

Better defensives

[uneven scarab]

ye

[uneven scarab]

0 + 0 still 0

[left ledge]

Hey DS had potential for like

[swift tinsel]

yeah but not everyone knows that lol

[left ledge]

One patch

[lilac stag]

Sounds like outlaw

[hazy breach]

Hotfix nerf DS by -6% without any notes
Hey lads heres a +1% buff, surely its good now right?

[swift tinsel]

in classic blizz fashion

[lilac stag]

Just missing the BP buff

[left ledge]

Man I fucking love BP buffs

Honestly some of the best shit to see

[plush roost]

Gloomblade bp buffs

Just make us purple bro

[pallid jackal]

Also curious to this

[lilac stag]

unironically black powder should be an outlaw/gunslinger spell

[plush roost]

Nothing more subtle than throwing gunpowder in a circle

[pallid jackal]

For me by the way, it is that at some point I use the second or third sectec in the dance, and not with the blue empowered combo points - is that normal?

[lilac stag]

That is what we call in the biz, a mistake.

[tawny plume]

is there any good cdm looks like we used to have for WA's?

[lilac stag]

ArcUI can get you close

[swift tinsel]

turns out it was Arc UI itself that was turning off the CDM cooldown text, did a fresh install and fixed it

[lilac stag]

I may actually release mine if I stick with it

gonna wait til I have more time to get all 3 done

[swift tinsel]

I'm sticking with it until the WA replacement eventually comes around

[lilac stag]

right now it just blows everything else away

[swift tinsel]

ye

[lilac stag]

Just not as user friendly

which is normal

[swift tinsel]

and also has a lot of features in the Options that just aren't implemented yet which clutters the space

[lilac stag]

the center fill stuff is there now too

[swift tinsel]

yeah, the Dynamic Group options were a really nice addition

having specific spaces saved for certain spells that you may or may not have specced into for st vs aoe for example would make things kinda weird

[lilac stag]

you can still do that as well

[swift tinsel]

ye the centering just makes it look not bad finally

[lilac stag]

I need to sort out where I want defensives and movement if I’m doing a release. Folks won’t nec like where I’ve got it haha

[eager latch]

would DS be goated if you could trigger DN with BP?

(DN as in Darkest Night, not Deez Nuts. Just to clarify)

[lilac stag]

deez nutz > anything deathstalker mark in current game

just ignore it

Like blizzard

[swift tinsel]

I have them below Essential but kinda want to put defensives by HP and stuns/sprint/etc stay below

idk

[lilac stag]

there is no saving it

[eager latch]

hate to see it

[lilac stag]

I’ve got one idea but I have to play with it.

[eager latch]

thanks for the reply king

[swift tinsel]

nah keep DS in the dirt

[uneven scarab]

needs like a full rework for sub no cap

[eager latch]

ever since the nimble change, our 2 target just feels so fucking bad man

[uneven scarab]

for it to even be enjoyable

[lilac stag]

Sadly our best thematic hero talents is god fucking awful

[swift tinsel]

I also need to configure my Better Ability Timeline setup

[lilac stag]

I just went with DBM since the beta has audible cues

[swift tinsel]

I had the WA exactly perfect so I gotta see how close I can get to that again lol

also need to adjust Target Cast Bar in UUF

[lilac stag]

that’s easy enough

[swift tinsel]

ye

I also have Platy with some nice casting widget stuff

[lilac stag]

The ability to have colored friendly names in an instance was a bliz 🇼

[swift tinsel]

have non-target alpha down a bit, and casting alpha cranks it up and increases size a bit

[lilac stag]

I’ve been lazy and just using Jundies

[eager latch]

i haven't changed my jundies in 5 days

[swift tinsel]

I used Jundies as the foundation and have been tweaking as I see fit

[eager latch]

is that bad, chat?

[swift tinsel]

very happy with how they've turned out

its just so fucking easy to configure

with the live preview Designer tab

[lilac stag]

He released an update yesterday

[fallow nimbus]

enemy healthbar turns purple when they cast at me, else i don't care

[lilac stag]

One of the few discords I have notifications on for. lol

[swift tinsel]

ah ye I have the cast bar itself change color lol

[fallow nimbus]

maybe purple isn't a good idea with midnight being purple too

[swift tinsel]

I went with like a blue-green color

but bright as fuck

[fallow nimbus]

castbar just changes if it is interruptable or not

[swift tinsel]

ye I have that too

[fallow nimbus]

had some mages with pvp on at the prepatch event and i get pvp flagged when i use sectec, wierd that i can't see buffs/debuffs/cc on ther plate like on normal mobs

[muted girder]

jundies plates are kinda goated

[fallow nimbus]

that poor mage was my testsubject, but i couldn't get it to work for enemyplayers, maybe i need to activate the blizz default shit for friendly players?

[torn ore]

hello guys , wowhead build talents updated with today patch ?

[shadow lance]

Yes

[marble rock]

Hello there, witch talent for mono plz ? (some build of wowhead is old and doesnt work)

In raid 🙂

[hazy breach]

The exact same as before

Except you dont pick cold blood

[marble rock]

what did we take with the talent point ? (thank you)

[hazy breach]

Whatever you wnat

[marble rock]

ty

[lilac stag]

If you want to make zero decisions

[marble rock]

best plan thank you

[shrewd lantern]

I mean the utility point doesnt matter

[lilac stag]

Worst plan

You’re trusting me

[shrewd lantern]

Since you already probably take the "useful" utility nodes of stealth movespeed and iron stomach

[lilac stag]

I didn’t take iron before

[shrewd lantern]

no one did i think?

[lilac stag]

I’m sure someone did

[shrewd lantern]

the stock build had it iirc

[radiant swift]

does dance+stec not work for deathstalker? the macro

[hazy breach]

It does

[radiant swift]

well shit

hm it does - its so weird

[hazy breach]

It works just fine

Its just better to start dances at low cp as deathstalker

But might aswell start playing trickster

[radiant swift]

yeah its just fake mythic reclears so im running full st setup but i wonder just now since u want to start low cp

u dont want to dance + stec anyway no>?

not that it realy matters in prepatch

[radiant swift]

even in st?

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel Notice: Masque does not support or account for buttons with secret anchors, as it is depend on Button:GetSize() to function properly. Any add-on that passes a button or frame with secret anchors will cause taint/errors. At the current moment, it is the responsibility of the add-on to account for secret values.

[swift tinsel]

it wasn't Maaaaaaasque my guy

[lilac stag]

I know. Just a fyi

[tawny plume]

thats sick anyway to import that?

[narrow shadow]

Is sub dead with current tuning?

[vale pine]

seems fine

its like, worse than before

[thorny ridge]

!FUU

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

but in line with other specs

that while still being good on the last 2 fights

tho a 8%+ nerf means

subtlety will be more towards the middle, instead of the top now

it already was at the lower end of the top performers

balance wise, the change makes not much sense for level 80

but

[eager latch]

it honestly didn't even make much sense for 90

in no way was sub overpeforming in keys

[vale pine]

i can get behind the logic

they fixed dps bugs

and then implemented nerfs

so it keeps the power level to the one before

however, question is, if the "before" level is a good place to be in

[fleet acorn]

got a question for macro setup on sub, so if i use deathstalker i use a dance + fok macro and if i use trickster i use another macro for dance + sectech?

[onyx flame]

Isn’t sub one of the worst st performers now?

[lucid jackal]

There's more to this video game than Sim st patchwork dps

[onyx flame]

wow really? 🤦🏻‍♂️

[plush roost]

Yes theres also sim st patchwerk 4 minute!

[uneven scarab]

You could even do patchwerk 5 boss!!

so many combinations

[plush roost]

Cmon fellas lets login to classic and simulate ourselves against patchwerk!

Patchwerk Live-minute

[torn ore]

as sub vs soulhunter i spend with BP ?

[astral axle]

im always down to simulate myself

oh simulate

[lucid jackal]

Well if you look at the Tier we just had, sub had "terrible single target" but was one of the hard carry specs especially on the later encounters, both for its high aoe burst and its st damage

The game has a lot more complexity than "who sims the best"

[steel zinc]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[hazy breach]

Subs profile has changed a little bit, the 90s is a bit weaker than in s3 but every individual dance is stronger

[fleet acorn]

lost 4k dps from yesterday to today with sim xd

[strange cedar]

Hey guys! Can someone explain the coming apex talents like I have 0 IQ?

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/naruto-naruto-clone-funny-dancing-dance-gif-17857501

[hollow spear]

That's very high IQ haptics

Try again

[swift tinsel]

it is a Forbidden Jutsu

[swift tinsel]

1st One: When you spent Shadow Techniques stacks, you have a % chance per stack consumed to spawn a clone that replicates that attack for 50% dmg
2nd One: Increases shadow damage, clones (should) grant energy and ShT stack
3rd One: If, when consuming Shadow Techniques stacks with a builder, you have 5 or more left over, your next finisher will refund combo points to allow another finisher (similar to how Shadowcraft refunds worked in TWW)

[strange cedar]

Thanks

[swift tinsel]

tldr in cooldowns you get a ton of stacks

and can spend them to spawn clones

[radiant swift]

if it works on sth spent so on builders how is it possible to force it to replicate a finisher?

[swift tinsel]

and we get a neato spell alert now to tell you when your next finisher

[radiant swift]

or is that a diffrent mechanic?

[runic sinew]

sub was nerfed today?

[swift tinsel]

because it takes the stacks and 'expends' them

[radiant swift]

or is spent ment spent spent and not filled

[swift tinsel]

which triggers the first apex

[radiant swift]

i see

[swift tinsel]

so it doesn't require them to be consumed literally

bit of a caveat

[radiant swift]

wait wat

i tought this ment literaly spent

as in the filled ones spent

[swift tinsel]

you can strike/bs/storm at max cp with 5+ stacks to force the finisher clone proc

so it doesn't require your cp to be spent and then refilled to trigger

[radiant swift]

i was about to say 50% per cp

means always forceable?

thats just a fuxked mechanic ngl

[swift tinsel]

lil bit

welcome to the wacky world of subtlety

[radiant swift]

and u only use it when u can get a refill so 5+ sth stacks?

makes even less sense

[swift tinsel]

you get a metric fuckton of stacks in cooldowns

[radiant swift]

so u permaforce?

[swift tinsel]

you can if you want, supposedly its +0.5% gain

[radiant swift]

cant wait to press a builder on max cp

[swift tinsel]

strike-evisc-strike-evisc etc instead of strike-evisc-evisc

[radiant swift]

wait if i enter

with more than 5sth stacks

[swift tinsel]

then you have more stacks

[radiant swift]

doesnt point 3 mean i cant fall below bcs it refills me all the time?

[swift tinsel]

you pretty much get so many stacks you can't spend them fast enough

[radiant swift]

hope there will be an explain section

[swift tinsel]

lol

[radiant swift]

i read the points as u dont even lose any

nvm

[swift tinsel]

I mean you replace them fast enough that you effectively don't

[radiant swift]

with a "builder"

important distinction

[dreamy pumice]

uh so i just came back and now we cant even use any weak auras i guess? Is there any way to see combo points central to the screen / way to add an indicator that im in dance/sub windows

[swift tinsel]

yep WA gone

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[swift tinsel]

bad Moroes

[dreamy pumice]

ty

[swift tinsel]

can use Wangbar or SenseiClassResourceBar for cp addon

Wangbar is for the people though

[bleak night]

use the command in outlaw channel

[swift tinsel]

recommend it

[bleak night]

and there are some

[swift tinsel]

ah nice

[bleak night]

wangbar op

[swift tinsel]

was messing around on outlaw the other day and saw I still have Dreadblades on my action bar lol

[bleak night]

[swift tinsel]

Sorry, Not Pre-Midnight Shadow Blades

[upbeat smelt]

Do you guys track stacks of Shadow technique? Is that going to be a thing at 90?

[swift tinsel]

you don't need to

some people do though if you want

[upbeat smelt]

Yeah that's what I thought, no no Im good lol.

[hard trellis]

rogue looking insane in midnight

insanely shit

[lilac stag]

[broken seal]

At this state of the pre patch. If you had to make a tier list difficulty for every spec and class since the rework, where would you put the new sub for « gameplay » and « mastery » ?

I remember a lot of people were saying rogue in general and mainly sub was in a S tier difficulty (maybe it was also for PvP) but now what is your opinion ^^

[harsh meadow]

i think putting it into a tier is a bit reductive, its hard

sub is definitely easier to master but still very fun and retains what made it cool

[short radish]

Sub was never S tier in difficulty

tier lists are also memes

[limpid sage]

That was before they removed all the things that made it hard xd

[short radish]

but at the very least, sub is very easy to understand now

the majority of the complexity behind sub was removed

[limpid sage]

Almost the entirety of it was muscle memory though I feel

Besides understanding the opener

As soon as you understood the opener you understood sub I feel

[radiant swift]

the optimazation do be a fuckery tho

would be nice if it gets fixed (if it can)

[short radish]

yeah the difficulty floor was high

but once you got it, it was so chill

[chrome palm]

sub has basically no optimizations in prepatch so it is extremely easy

[keen dome]

Sub wasn't difficult, imo. Sub was complex and requiered learning a few rules and quirks.

Once you did, it wasn't difficult at all and was pretty rote, esp once you then learned boss timings on top of it

[chrome palm]

in beta the gameplay remains easy but the optimizations are extremely unintuitive and rather impactful

[radiant swift]

ngl playing with prism doesnt make it better either

i feel like it does line at all

like im always waiting on smth

[limpid sage]

Legit. In the very end I felt like fury was harder purely due to the amount of buttons you had to press + it’s way more reactive

I completely zoned out on sub

[short radish]

yeah exactly

peak 20 seconds of just afk auto attacking

then do your damage

then back to chilling

[limpid sage]

Also didn’t feel like committing warcrimes when losing uptime on sub like I do on fury

(Except on Stix but that’s because his of his ball timers)

[broken seal]

Guess it was mostly because of pvp

[short radish]

yeah probably a pvp thing

but pvp is difficult anyway

[tall girder]

Hiiiii fimb

[radiant swift]

did tww3 sub have much less uptime on dance?

didnt u guys have some sort of cds rolling all the time?

[chrome palm]

slightly less than beta i guess

you were in dance for like 45s or something in opener

[radiant swift]

oh damn

where is this downtime then tho

[hazy breach]

Dance uptime is similar to s3

[radiant swift]

i feel like im constantly atleast in dance

[hazy breach]

But since its shorter you are casting it more often

[warm marlin]

Dance cd was like 22.5-23

[chrome palm]

it was more condensed though

[radiant swift]

how did u manage to line stuff up

with pot, prism especialy and everything

[hazy breach]

Idk what you mean

Prism just lines up with anything

[radiant swift]

it feels like im always waiting on somenthing

if i want to send it full 18stacks

[chrome palm]

you mean waiting on dance for blades?

[radiant swift]

deciding on what to wait in general

on opener u dont have a trinket basicaly

[chrome palm]

waiting on cds was basically what made sub difficult in terms of dps specs

the difference was you had a lot more flexibility in when you used dance and secret technique

you wouldnt lose damage by holding them for some time

so it was simple to line them up to blades

[radiant swift]

what was the general idea

i didnt play s3 so prepatch now is surely diffrent

[chrome palm]

you would only use dance like 3-4 times per every cast of blades

[radiant swift]

even when sending on cd it doesnt feel like stuff is lining up well

[chrome palm]

and you used symbols and secret technique with every dance

[radiant swift]

no makes sense

there was also cd on stec

[chrome palm]

for blades you would basically just want to make sure you had like 1 charge and ~30-35s on recharge of dance, and 1 charge and ~10-12s on recharge of symbols, and secret technique at ~9s before using flagellation (other 90s cd before blades)

[radiant swift]

but the idea keeps being the same? stack as many stuff as possible

[chrome palm]

in blades you would rapidly get dance and secret back up because of combo point cdr

[radiant swift]

hold as little as possible

[chrome palm]

you could hold more

[radiant swift]

yeah this - is ofc missing now

[chrome palm]

so secret used to have like a 55s cd

lets say in m+

you have blades at 20s but everything else is up

if you used dance/symbols/secret to finish off a pack, you could have everything back up by the time blades was back up

because you would have a lot of cdr in dance

a better example would be like soulbinder for raid

you would use dance on every set of cage pops

it didnt matter if you held secret technique for 10s or so

[radiant swift]

but how do i know this

[bleak night]

you get told it here

[chrome palm]

you just feel it out

by playing the spec

honestly

[radiant swift]

theres so many variatons

and stuff happening

or do you run so many constant groups u get to figure it out by trying?

[chrome palm]

most people raid in a guild, and during mythic prog youre basically following a script until you get it right

you have a general idea of how often you can use dance, and you would be able to adjust it to some degree based on the fight

that was part of subtlety's strength

or you just go on lorrgs and copy what someone else is doing

[radiant swift]

intresting

[maiden oar]

the way i thought about it is that a regular flag+blades on a single target is 1 dollar

you get 1 every 90s

[radiant swift]

especialy the degree because when thinking of it, the general idea is always as much as possible when possible

[maiden oar]

its worth more with stuff like dmg a.ps

multiple targets

[radiant swift]

yeah exactly

[maiden oar]

delaying for trinkets like forge

[radiant swift]

the thing you are holding

[maiden oar]

so sometimes if u wait u get more value

but sometimes u lose the entire thing if u wait

[radiant swift]

has to varrant the time holding + the usage

[maiden oar]

so u just have to get the most dollar

[radiant swift]

seems like a lot of testing

[maiden oar]

easiest way is after a pull just ask if there were any chances to get more value than single target blades on cd every time

[radiant swift]

figuring out which combination when

[maiden oar]

they are usually pretty obvious (adds/amps)

[chrome palm]

the combination is always the same

[maiden oar]

but sometimes it can be because of a 2 min trinket or killtime or bosses being stacked

but basically never lose a usage of blades unless the value of the blades you gain by doing so is at least worth 2 dollars (some dimensius push times are an example of this being true)

[radiant swift]

crazy how fast people get a grip on it

youd think that would take many pulls

[chrome palm]

youre not doing something totally different for each fight

[maiden oar]

also examples in fights like soulbinder

[radiant swift]

that is also true

killtimers are not gona differ by minutes for all bosses

[maiden oar]

doing flag blades and hitting all the monsters when all the canisters open is worth way more than 2 dollars in this example

[short radish]

\o

[radiant swift]

no def makes sense - i always think of m+ because raid seems way more straightforward

[chrome palm]

its kinda whatever in m+ tbh because theres always something to do damage to its not like youre waiting for an add spawn

[maiden oar]

sometimes its very sensitive (difference between 3:30 and 3:55 killtime last season meant entirely different cd timings and trinket loadouts)

[radiant swift]

true

[maiden oar]

3:30 you go
opener w/ lily -> 90s w/ lily -> 3m with 18 stack prism

3:55 you go
opener w/ ritual forge -> 2min with ritual forge -> 3:30 with 18 stack prism

[radiant swift]

prob fun part figuring all that out

[maiden oar]

so you can guess wrong on killtime and get punished

im a coward and chose to not gamble if i was ever unsure hehe

but some people choose to risk it and try and win big

[radiant swift]

is prob more fun when it works

i always find myself in a situation where it doesnt feel right to send

esp m+

stuff is somehow always half dead

[maiden oar]

but you can come to this conclusion from first principles by trying to just maximize the usage number and the value (in terms of trinkets/adds/amps/etc) of your blades casts

[chrome palm]

its fun in prog because its always consistent

unless someone giga procs or something

[maiden oar]

thats basically it theres no other secret

[chrome palm]

you know when you get to burst

[short radish]

yeah raid is largly a dance that you repeat over and over again

[cloud barn]

are you supposed to always holding shadow dance for when sectec is off CD?

[short radish]

thats probably one of the most important things in raiding

is being consistent

[radiant swift]

will def be fun to prog mythic

and u can always look on lorrgs for refrences

but i wanna be that good that i can figure it out myself

[maiden oar]

you can

if you copy someone just ask yourself why theyre doing what theyre doing

if you can figure that out then you can learn to figure it out on your own

[radiant swift]

well idk if its that easy

[maiden oar]

but no shame in copying to learn its what i did

[radiant swift]

but ill def try\

[maiden oar]

it can be if you have the right mindset/attitude and put enough effort in

[radiant swift]

oh def

but that was a good call with the dollar

i can basicaly check how far apart are for instance a certain spawn and just how much i get from holding for that - easy enough

also depending on fights sometimes stuff just naturaly aligns

[warm marlin]

yes it was

and now its kinda cooked with sectec cd

pray that we get charges in .5

[radiant swift]

so beta is super similar to prepatch now?

havent played it just heard that recent changes from beta were pushed to prepatch - were that all of them?

[warm marlin]

i havent played prepatch either but you're still missing apex talents

not that it adds a huge amount but its a decent chunk of potential optimizations

[main creek]

Just did an 18 and holy shit single target damage is just inexistant as of today

or is it just me?

[radiant swift]

ngl always have to laugh a bit thinking of the apex optimazation

that stuff is so cooked

is it atleast worth it

feels good to do it?

[warm marlin]

ya its not a mega op 7% gain anymore but like 1.5 or something iirc

[radiant swift]

thats somenthing

is it akward to play?

[warm marlin]

i didnt do much actual testing yet and it was all with base ui

probably a bit weird building at max cp

have to ask charrend or someone whos been grinding beta

[radiant swift]

mister eleem

[hazy breach]

A bit ye

[radiant swift]

figured

fuck it we ball

[main creek]

anyone else having trouble with single target damage as of today's patch?

[tepid trellis]

well u got smacked with like a 10% dmg loss

8% aura and gated moved in the class tree

[main creek]

Aoe feels mostly the same, but ST feels like it's doing half what it did yesterday

maybe I'm tripping

[radiant swift]

how can i like get the idea quickly for new raids to perform well? i guess mostly is expierence and watching a video of the boss and making a plan?

[tepid trellis]

watching what other people do and ask yourself why that is

[radiant swift]

do i have any more options

[bleak night]

Watching others + recording myself and watching my own vods is by far the best thing I ever did to start getting better

[radiant swift]

actualy

im guessing most top guilds are logging hidden at start?

does lorrgs still show me when they use cds? just with a hidden name?

[bleak night]

You can see beta stuff for bosses to get a feel for them

[radiant swift]

this - especialy mistakes u dont realise

[bleak night]

Most bosses dont change dramatically

Some do though

[tepid trellis]

they will not show up

[radiant swift]

shit

[tepid trellis]

but just tuned into RWF streamers

and watch them clear the raids

best way to really do it

[bleak night]

Exile gigachad

[radiant swift]

so general idea and hope my guild

can do atleast somewhat similar

[bleak night]

Unless youre like very very high end youre gonna have a absolute ton of logs and videos to look at

[tepid trellis]

majority of guilds just copy what they do anyway

[radiant swift]

i couldnt figure

is wrf in the first week when everyone else is leveling

[tepid trellis]

nope they raid same time as you

[bleak night]

Nah its on same as everyone else

[tepid trellis]

they just clear it insanely fast

[radiant swift]

makes sense

[tepid trellis]

so on the day raid opens

they will go in and do like 20+ heroic splits

[radiant swift]

are timers heavy diffrent between heroic and mythic

like extreme?

iirc this tier it didnt seem like it

[tepid trellis]

timers usually stay somewhat the same

[bleak night]

Sometimes adds in mythic dont even exist in heroic

But normally its similar

[tepid trellis]

shit just does more dmg and has more hp + a few added mechanics

[radiant swift]

true

will be fun

also despite mybe not having access to rwf

[bleak night]

Unless you are currently in echo or liquid you should have plenty of resources to look at to plan your prog

[radiant swift]

theres plenty good people that copy them that u can copy

do we have any weaknesses

high burst profile

[tepid trellis]

@naive zodiac soz for ping bud, but how many charrs you prepping for splits this time around?

[bleak night]

[radiant swift]

but something like swaping bad for arcane

[naive zodiac]

idk if i can say exact # but over 15

[hazy breach]

[tepid trellis]

[radiant swift]

u do what

[bleak night]

[naive zodiac]

this is crazy timing btw cause i was just reading the discord

[tepid trellis]

lmfao

[radiant swift]

wdym ur prepping 15 chars

[bleak night]

The racoon could sense you

[tepid trellis]

go back to your PoE

[radiant swift]

but like not all rogues right

[naive zodiac]

majority rogues ya

[tepid trellis]

most rogues and some DH's

[radiant swift]

surely thats not fucked

[tepid trellis]

welcome to whats known as split hell

[radiant swift]

i remember its usual to have like multiple and split and then take the best geared one

but 15?

[hazy breach]

Thats why you dont play in a rwf guild

[summer lynx]

So why did we get slapped in prepatch? Feel so much weaker.

[radiant swift]

that is crazy

[tepid trellis]

No outlaw rogues this time!!! or i will haunt you

[naive zodiac]

i’ll prob have all 3 specs for splits as usual

lot easier on expac launch

[tepid trellis]

disgustinnnn

[torn tide]

do yall think there'll be a maintenance today?

[tulip light]

Sub was borderline broken, the 8% nerf was blitz desperate attempt to bring us in line with weaker dps @summer lynx /s

[torn tide]

shit is so bugged rn

[radiant swift]

isnt it that super hard to like perfect all 3 specs

[bleak night]

its an arms race to do as many splits as possible as efficiently as you can without your raiders committing suicide

to hope for better gear on average than the other guild

[radiant swift]

who in the right mind doesnt with 15

lets say u get lucky and get gear

u still have to help

right?

[bleak night]

you help other splits

yeah

[tepid trellis]

yes

[radiant swift]

and at what point do you not shoot yourself

[warm marlin]

rwf is not for the mentally weak

[tepid trellis]

to alleviate some pain, some people get paid to play

[summer lynx]

I would have been rage baited by this if it werent for the /s ty

[short radish]

neither is RFWL

[tepid trellis]

RWL

[radiant swift]

i heard its terrible

[tepid trellis]

is more taxing

100%

the pure amount of shittery

[warm marlin]

poor rwl gamers

[tepid trellis]

you would hae to deal with

[short radish]

it's such good content though

that being said 15 chars for splits is insane

[radiant swift]

is that even fun

[tepid trellis]

i know someone who is prepping 25

[radiant swift]

like

[fossil forge]

We did 2 and it was Misery

[short radish]

i suppose winning 3 RWF in a row makes funding splits easier though

[radiant swift]

are most rwf mostly one tricks?

is that even possible

i know most have alts or secondaries

but do u get to play your "main"mostly

[bleak night]

at that level most can play mutiple specs

just depends what the raid needs that tier

some of them end up playing the same classes more than tohers

like firedup can play a bunch of stuff but i dont remember the last time i saw him not playing mage in race

[radiant swift]

so being excellent at one is less worthy than being able to flex

[bleak night]

well they are excellent

[radiant swift]

well ofc not taking anything away

it was more between playing 3 specs and 1

surely the one is ever slightly better at that specific one

[torn tide]

is sub at a bad spot rn with the bugs and that loss of damage which feels alot more than 8% for some reason

[radiant swift]

the gap is just prob not releveant

[tepid trellis]

some people are there just to pretty much play one class, some cover a few more

it very much just depends on who

[short radish]

#subtlety message

[torn tide]

damn

[radiant swift]

oh so you can be that excellent

[tepid trellis]

its usually 1-2 classes but some cover more

[radiant swift]

i mean thats not to bad

[bleak night]

yeah i didnt mean earlier they all play every class

[radiant swift]

if u didnt have to have 15 of them

[bleak night]

just a couple that they're really good at

[radiant swift]

no i got that

[bleak night]

tanks and healers tend to play most though afaik (within their role)

[radiant swift]

was just thinking how much better a one trick could be

or if it matters

[tepid trellis]

at a certain level it becomes quite easy to pick up another class

wow is not that hard a game

[radiant swift]

unfort

[naive zodiac]

especially after midnight

https://klipy.com/gifs/jose-mourinho-sweet-trouble

[tepid trellis]

what happens after midnight?

[hazy breach]

1am usually

[tepid trellis]

got me

gawd damn

[naive zodiac]

all classes become easier

[short radish]

[tepid trellis]

ah so you enter a flow state after 12pm

[radiant swift]

well yes but how much can u get out of it - or is that just that easy too

[tepid trellis]

gotcha

shit just becomes cake walk

[tepid trellis]

well when you play at a certain level its just about applying the class, same way as you do any other class

just about effort more than anything reall