subtlety

[pale elk]

our talents are changed today? there new pvp build up?

[lilac stag]

Wrong channel

#pvp

[vagrant fulcrum]

Unironically we’re regressing as a species

Look at whispyr, he’s not lost it over stealth in like two months

All we need is someone day 62 of season one to come in and make a case his key wasn’t timed bc he didn’t get a restealth

[torn tide]

damn bruh since when does it matter, its prepatch

[oblique sequoia]

Is gloomblade really so bad?

[lilac stag]

It never went away

[barren tree]

did they change the talent point requirement to be able to get lower talents on the rogue tree?

i swear yesterday i was able to get full supercharge plus stratagem and extra vanish

[lilac stag]

Read the pins

[lilac stag]

that'll be me with the random, ret, hunter, mage or rogue who hasn't played sub since BfA coming in here to swap to rogue and go 2 Button Spec

[tribal blade]

WOOOO DOING NO DAM NOW ON PREPATCH

something something no apex

[plush roost]

zeee beta is down

patchsoon 👀

8% inc

[chrome palm]

@rugged condor I didnt think the 8% sub nerf would be bad, until I got ampmogged by a jestermaxxing DDH, dropped to last in the guild PSL ranking & spiked my cortisol levels, now im forced to vibecope on sub-5 menacingrush outlaw

[plush roost]

Tbh i think the loss of 2x lethality coldblood are bigger than youd think

Muh strike dam

Blue parse andy tonight...

[tribal blade]

whoops i was still running 2x leathality and cb

[rugged condor]

bro u need god

what did u just say to me

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm blue parsing too haha

[spice matrix]

Lost to an outlaw rogue tonight. Think I’m gunna end it

[rugged condor]

it was the 4 buff rng

[plush roost]

He W sigma rizzlered all over

[rugged condor]

surely

messer is a zoomer i forgot

[plush roost]

Zoomerknecht

I understand totally btw why people came in saying its a 2button spec btw

Havent played prepatch till today and uh

Man

[rugged condor]

i refuse to touch sub until midnight

outlaw kill 2 bosses then log off

[chrome palm]

sub on prepatch feels like the lvl 10 rogue before you choose a spec

[plush roost]

Lack of apex sure is something

[maiden oar]

im already jestermaxxed so i cant be forced to priocope by fotmoids

[tribal blade]

yeah that's what i was telling people dooming about prepatch

apex adds a layer to sub

[plush roost]

Rank 1 gameplay

[rugged condor]

me when i strike at full cp

or did they get rid of that

[plush roost]

Its still there and its still litty

[rugged condor]

[plush roost]

Ur not always 5+ sht so u actually have to pay attention and use brain

[chrome palm]

glad they reworked shadowcraft so you wouldnt need to worry about tracking it anymore :^)

[plush roost]

:^) mfw cancel aura sht at high stacks is a loss

[chrome palm]

now i just need to track SHT before i overcap my combo points / check if i need to cancelaura it for secret tehecnique

[plush roost]

Mfw i need 4 sec tec buttons

[rugged condor]

...what did you just say

i purposefully dont keep up with beta tech bc it changes so often

you need to aura cancel a buff?

[plush roost]

Rn its optimal to cancel aura ancient arts (apex) on secret technique at low sht stacks to keep them for other finishers, but a loss at high stacks

[rugged condor]

....

[chrome palm]

so theres two bugs, premed causes you to not trigger ancient arts despite having the buff, and secret technique's apex shadow clone ONLY reflects damage done by the physical hit

[maiden oar]

but also because of the premed bug u can not worry about it almost all the time

[plush roost]

^also premed bug

[maiden oar]

i think what im probably going to do is just have a regular sectech dance macro and a regular sectech keybind and macro cancelaura ancient arts to its own thing

so if im ever not insta secteching i can just decide

[plush roost]

Its mostly relevant during your lust window

[maiden oar]

yeah

[rugged condor]

https://tenor.com/view/stanley-the-office-annoyed-gif-8231733

[chrome palm]

so notwithstanding the premed bug which usually causes secret technique to never consume ancient arts, you can cancelaura ancient arts like charrend said before using secret technique because the eviscerat apex clone does more damage than the secret technique apex clone

[plush roost]

Since u wont have premed but will have high stacks

[maiden oar]

thats why i think just putting cancelaura ancient arts on some comfy button and pressing it then = ok

[chrome palm]

unless you are at higher stacks like 10+ sht where youd probably overcap anyways

[maiden oar]

since its like once a fight

[plush roost]

Until premed is fixed

[maiden oar]

i think theyre never fixing premed

i could be mistaken but i would bet on it

[plush roost]

Its way more massive now than it was in tww

[maiden oar]

yeah

but i still feel like theyre just not gonna fix it

[chrome palm]

without premed bug you could forseeably proc ancient arts before a burst window on an add spawn

[plush roost]

Maybe, itd be nice to fix the dps loss bugs for a change and not the dps gain bugs

[maiden oar]

yeah

[warm marlin]

fotmoids is huge

im stealing this

[maiden oar]

[chrome palm]

it is actually so good i forgot to reply to that

[maiden oar]

u can shorten it to foids

[plush roost]

Cancel aura premed macro.... aware

[warm marlin]

i will not be doing that

[maiden oar]

hehehehe

[plush roost]

Hehehee

[warm marlin]

we played some guy in aram mayhem named foidDESTROYER the other day

[maiden oar]

[chrome palm]

funny i was playing nightreign the other day and i picked up a weapon dropped by one "FoidDestroyer"

he gets around

[plush roost]

Bro crazy

I was playing Chess and went up against FoidDestroyer earlier

Instant sacrifice queen ive never seen such a power play

[warm marlin]

perhaps the new rogue name should be fotmoiddestroyer

[plush roost]

Fotmoid does go hard

[maiden oar]

yea maybe i will reserve that name

for whatever guy i reroll to to push keystone

[plush roost]

Demoidlock

[warm marlin]

i would use it but i fotm reroll for keys so

unlucky

[maiden oar]

yeah im gonna try that this season

[plush roost]

No need

Rogue meta

[warm marlin]

mhm certainly

[chrome palm]

what a sick joke if this version of sub is what ends up being meta

instead of what was had

[warm marlin]

i havent seen anyone playing spriest

it will emerge

[plush roost]

They just have to hit soul cleave hand of guldan arcane splinters aug dread plague graveyard

And were In

[maiden oar]

im calling mage

[plush roost]

Spriest is rllllly bad on ze beta, yisus is a devourer now

[warm marlin]

apparently at like 12 targets you get infinite dots and the spirits scale

[maiden oar]

i have a feeling mage will be meta

[warm marlin]

just need to pull more bro!

I hope arcane stays good if anything, looks fun

[plush roost]

Hmmmm

[plush roost]

I hope arcane is good, but i do not hope warlock is good

[maiden oar]

hes ready

[warm marlin]

our warlock guy is also our dk guy

[plush roost]

Not male gnome smh

[warm marlin]

and our boomie

[maiden oar]

i like dwarf

i see all fantasy media and i cannot help but root for the angry short alcholics

[warm marlin]

my mage is one of the few that i submitted to dwarf

[maiden oar]

theyre cool guys

[plush roost]

Real

[maiden oar]

i like hobbits and halflings too even if they arent as irritable

[plush roost]

My first dnd char was a dwarf spellthief rogue

Id share drinks and slight of hand steal magic

[maiden oar]

small alcholic guys are the best fantasy races imo

[warm marlin]

surely with 60% plink if they tune it to not be unplayably bad in st itll be insane in keys

and with the tuning of dots rn

[chrome palm]

60% plink is a joke

[maiden oar]

in raid it probably goes crazy anyway

[chrome palm]

what was it before

like half t hat?

[plush roost]

I think rn keys have an issue with dot speca

[warm marlin]

in tww or before?

I wanna say 35 this season

[plush roost]

Every pack is 1 big guys, 3 medium dudes, and 20 smallies

[warm marlin]

its been 25

[plush roost]

So dot specs do nothing

Ramp into oh all my ramp is dead

[warm marlin]

2 tanks 2 spriests 1 healer and 90 mobs into boss

[lilac stag]

Tank damage spec now.

[plush roost]

Mdi gaming

I also think beta keys need tanks with larger cocks ngl

All the "meta routes" are like 8 targets outside of magisters or lust pulls

[lilac stag]

maybe they can get injections like the ski jumpers at the Olympics

[plush roost]

Like bruh just pull the apex lynx trappers spiders

[maiden oar]

oh

[plush roost]

Flowers fuck it

[maiden oar]

maybe i should tank keys

i bet id go INSANE on the brewmaster

[plush roost]

Apparenlty brew is really boring lmao

[maiden oar]

oh...

[chrome palm]

youd get hella fotmoids tanking grouch

[lilac stag]

You’d do the same damage as sub in prepatch and be useful

[plush roost]

Garret was like ive never not had fun on brew this is weird af

[chrome palm]

on the btag

[maiden oar]

hehe

[plush roost]

When i saw tactycks pwar beating me on dimmy for during pargoth platform i was legit about to jump off

[maiden oar]

[plush roost]

Guys let me cook tho okay

Because blizzard loves LiveDataTM theyll see sub in the bin

And itll be 30% bp evis

Our time to shine

[maiden oar]

i think theres no way it looks like this when real content comes out

so im not gonna worry about it

[plush roost]

No ofc not apex makes sub probbaly second best melee spec lmao

[chrome palm]

big sub changes this week on beta

[maiden oar]

is best enhancce

[plush roost]

Uhdk

[maiden oar]

i hear people say enhance is the coolest all the time

oh

u mean in terms of strong

not gameplay feel

[plush roost]

Yeee

[warm marlin]

what are we rolling for splits btw

[maiden oar]

ww

[warm marlin]

got asked today and i wasnt sure

[plush roost]

Rogue dh rogue

[maiden oar]

well

i might do 2 rogues for splits

and just ww for alt run and stuff

[tulip scroll]

what's a good spec for Sub now after todays hit

[maiden oar]

but probably rogue/ww

[chrome palm]

i got minimisser and my choice of spriest or ww

[warm marlin]

i did second rogue this tier but im looking at fdk/enh

[maiden oar]

i hear really good things about enh

fun wise

[plush roost]

Enh is fun i hear

[maiden oar]

everyone loves that spec

[plush roost]

And totemic is fixed

[warm marlin]

is it like tww1?

[maiden oar]

couldnt tell u there

[plush roost]

No

U cant proc 8 lightning dogs and triple tempest unfort

[warm marlin]

I liked spender focused gameplay

[maiden oar]

i think this one is hot hands

[warm marlin]

and miniburst windows of prim wave

very surprising i know

[plush roost]

Stormbringer is still like that i think

Totemic is more procs iirc

[maiden oar]

i hope they make enhance meta

i wanna play it for keystone

[plush roost]

Lowkey same

But also rogue!

[maiden oar]

yea

[plush roost]

Enh rogue devourer meta

The dream

[maiden oar]

i want outlaw to be good once it makes me so sad to see longtime outlaw players talk about anything

[warm marlin]

logging into my meta rogue spec ™ with my feint and my 0 aoe stops

[maiden oar]

i want them to be happy just once

[warm marlin]

it was very strong in tww2

very very strong

[plush roost]

Gotta be the passenger princess like Hunter last season

[maiden oar]

oh ok they didnt particularly come across as happy then but also i wasnt paying too much attn

[plush roost]

Tho im ngl aoe stops

Kinda w.e now?

[maiden oar]

was spending entire tier progging raid and learning game

so i didnt check outlaw stuff much

[warm marlin]

well ks was a suicide button but your damage went brazy

[maiden oar]

hehe

[plush roost]

2 kicks covers everything in keys

Kidney is actually insane as well

[maiden oar]

i did see some funny ks clips

[plush roost]

8 second stun on certain trash makss tanks lives way easier

[fleet wharf]

wasn't warr pretty low util until midnight? now they have some useful partywide shouts and shit and we get fucking crickets

[maiden oar]

is devourer fun

ive been sort of avoiding it because i hear ppl say its like 4 buttons and one of them isnt good enough to press

[plush roost]

Idk every devourer i play woth has fun

[maiden oar]

ah ok

i will give it a try

[fleet wharf]

fun aside, isn't devourer pretty much guaranteed to be strong at least for S1 of midnight?

[plush roost]

Maybe cause big dam

[maiden oar]

yea

[plush roost]

I think in raid devourer is actually supposed to be really fast paced

[fleet wharf]

like no way blizz releases a new class and it's not omega broken

[plush roost]

Which sounds fun

If they make the pseudo melee build mets

I think itll be a banger spec

[fleet wharf]

i feel the only issue with this is it kills the true melee specs when there are ranged/pseudo ranged alternatives?

[maiden oar]

yeah i wish theyd do this

[fleet wharf]

I feel we won't see any havoc DH, kind of like how we don't see survs

[plush roost]

Well its still mostly ranged, u just go melee every 20ish seconds and weave out

[fleet wharf]

right, the issue is they are tagged as ranged for mechanics so DH buff can now be covered by another ranged which has historcally been more useful for doing mechanics/damage in raid settings?

[plush roost]

Idk some of the most fun ive had on DH was doing shit like VR off edge glide felrush through swirls

So if u can do that on devour im happy

[fleet wharf]

I get that, I'm kind of worried about a future where outlaw becomes the pseudoranged class for rogue and that's the only one they want to take to raids

[plush roost]

Even if it is

Sub will still be taken

Is just too good

Except when its not hehe

[fleet wharf]

is there a niche left for sub in midnight though? I'm not as optimistic about how sub's looking for the new expansion

[plush roost]

Burst aoe, 20 second high damage windows

[fleet wharf]

I really wish our SD uptime wasn't so high

[short radish]

same, and i'm pissed that my 2 other alts are looking garbo (ret/feral)

[plush roost]

If pbox remains as good as it is flexibility between 130 and 2min spec

[short radish]

maybe im a hpal again since prots also kinda beans (glass cannon)

[dusky tundra]

fimmmm

[fleet wharf]

whats pbox?

[plush roost]

Algethar puzzlebox

[azure thicket]

think of it positively, less rogues

more loot

[plush roost]

2 min 800 mastery on use

[fleet wharf]

aren't we already the lowest pop class lmao

[short radish]

yoooooo

[fleet wharf]

like rogues who apply to my guild leave because tehy know there are other guilds at similar ranks that have 0 rogues and would rather be the only rogue

[azure thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/blood-in-blood-out-blood-gang-signs-be-positive-space-king-gif-2403934556486118744

[short radish]

pretty sure thats still evoker

🙃

[azure thicket]

ye it's probably evoker

[short radish]

we're less than monks though iirc

[fleet wharf]

p sure we beat evoker in tww

[dusky tundra]

i love it when we are the least tho 😄

[short radish]

i still can't believe my guild had 3 rogues at one point

[fleet wharf]

thats normal in.... tbc

[short radish]

and we were all in for last boss in vault

at one "recent" point

[azure thicket]

the start of the expansion is probably gonna be sketchy

[short radish]

yeah im sure blizzard will make quick changes to damage profiles

[azure thicket]

delve trinkets and low raw stats

[short radish]

🤡

[fleet wharf]

it is if you think of it in business cycles

[azure thicket]

nah i just mean we're not gonna go off for the first month unless you get good rng

would be nice to play theater of pain a few more times tbh

gorechop was a fun boss

[azure thicket]

bruuuuuuuh

https://tenor.com/view/chromie-dancin-wow-world-of-warcraft-gif-17336051

[lilac stag]

I think I was 13th overall with 3 dead.

I just flew into a boulder at that point

[azure thicket]

shot in the dark looks kinda good

considering healers are losing kicks

tbh

[lilac stag]

[fresh portal]

Wait did blind go back to AOE in 12.0.1 or am I crazy

[short radish]

no you're blind

[graceful rock]

it never wasnt aoe

[azure thicket]

so much agi

[graceful rock]

did they remove exploiters from prepatch wcl? bc i looked today and have an R1 from a while back

[grand summit]

So did Sub change at all with the tuning changes?

[rustic geyser]

to be fair, det was a doozy of a player

that's hands down a "player not the spec" sitch

I don't know manes but I bet if he hung with you and det he was too

[fleet wharf]

-8%

[short radish]

i miss him but he touched grass and got a job

[rustic geyser]

fucking traitor imo

[grand summit]

So what are we taking instead of forced induction?>

Fuu's link isnt working

[white badger]

@short radish @rustic geyser excuse me

[short radish]

wtf you didn't even get pinged

[white badger]

I see everything

[short radish]

[rustic geyser]

YOU HEARD ME - you can teleport behind me if you like but rogues are a bit naff atm in prepatch so it won't work very well

[rustic geyser]

actually though, this is pretty <insert spooky noise here>

[white badger]

Wait hang on, you don't rogue anymore?

[rustic geyser]

Oh no, I do apparently, though I'll admit, if I'm allowed I might DH next season. If I get ragged on for not kidney shotting one more thing when the x has their instant ogcd free stun/aoe stun I'm going to quit rogue forever

[torn tide]

yo iz there any way to track shadow techniques? i feel like id need that since the apex is something related to that

or do i just not need to care about it

[torn tide]

BRO WHAT UR IS NAME AND PROFILE LOLL

"deja_vodoo of Xalatoes Herself"

[rustic geyser]

SHE'S MY QUEEN

[sick epoch]

hi guys one question, how do I simulate without simulationcraft addon? not working anymore at least for me

[brave carbon]

Last week i got 6 necks, now i got 5, wth is this

[shrewd lantern]

game asking why are you doing prepatch keys

[brave carbon]

To test the new things ofc 🙂 And to have something to do

[shrewd lantern]

beta

[brave carbon]

Yea i cant argue with that, not more then gearing up new chars for midnight xD

[shrewd lantern]

i mean yeah you'll save a whole 30 minutes leveling

if that

[brave carbon]

Nah more then that, like my rogue had 600 ilvl before prepatch

[vale osprey]

You guys really can't just let someone play the video game the way they want, hey?

[shrewd lantern]

idk its a shitfiesta

[shrewd lantern]

no warbound?

[vale osprey]

It's been fun to piss about on retail keys with friends and not have to set up bets

[brave carbon]

not that much no

[shrewd lantern]

setting up a bet?

[torn tide]

she literally always has her feet out LOL but thats fine cuz shes floating anyway

dont need shoes if ur feet dont touch the ground

[rustic geyser]

that's not even a choice, the universe propels her away from the ground because it's fundamentally flawed to treat her in such a manner

[shrewd lantern]

i dont fotm though so if i play something besides rogue its likely dh or war

both which i had geared already

warrior is a bit too crayon eating to main though

[rustic geyser]

I love devourer, ngl

[shrewd lantern]

its more fun than rogue rn

but uh

miss me with playing ranged in raid

[rustic geyser]

I feel that normally

but like

devour fun

[shrewd lantern]

might play it in keys but like

ranged in keys dont do mechanics

[shrewd lantern]

devour opener looks almost as long as s1 havoc

[neon pond]

What exactly changes in our rotation with todays patch when we can't ignore Darkest Night? Is it just that we cast eviscerate in AoE with Darkest Night and ST Rotation stays unchanged?

[alpine wraith]

yea

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[neon pond]

morning fuu

[keen dome]

Time to login and glare at the class gating

[woven ruin]

is that all the essential spells or im bugging?

[vale pine]

nope

[keen dome]

[vale pine]

you did not read my pin?

[keen dome]

Oh, I did.

I'm still

[short radish]

[alpine wraith]

aAaaAAaAaAA

remember you can never scream louder in your mind

[vale pine]

all you need is

• Essential: Secret, dance, blades, vanish(optional)
• Buffs: Darkest night, Unseen blades(optional)
• Utility: Depends on personal preference

[alpine wraith]

so you have to do it on disc

[vale pine]

thanks for posting the new talent import string

[keen dome]

Haha

[alpine wraith]

ahahaha

it never gets old tbh the rogue ones

[keen dome]

Did they fix Airborne yet or....

[sullen hare]

It still aoe blinds yes

[keen dome]

Nice

[woven ruin]

aw man all this empty space is so wierd

[short radish]

bind fishing

[keen dome]

You can put random pvp abilities in the slots

[alpine wraith]

you can put your dance macros there

but remember to put them on a non changing bar

[fallow ingot]

Pinned messages are MVPs

[junior ether]

is it worth to start WoW as sub? Ive played only TWW S2 as assa and thats all my experience in WoW overall

[lucid jackal]

Yeah why not

[keen dome]

Sure, why not. Play what you enjoy, and if you'll enjoy that, it's worth it!

[junior ether]

Yeah i started wow with rogue overall and kinda dont wanna switch at all, but for some reason assa feels weird now after i skipped 1 season

and sub feels like 4 buttons? I mean for casual player it feels 4 buttons at least xD

[short radish]

all specs are like that

[junior ether]

gonna learn more later, but yeah, dont wanna switch class but wanna switch spec

[short radish]

as weird as it sounds unless you really enjoy rogue/the rogue archtype

i'd try out other classes in wow

you'll have a much harder time pugging

but if you enjoy rogue then dont let what i've said stop you

there are still dozens of us who play and pug

[lucid jackal]

I mean if u like rogue play rogue it's p simple

Idk if we need to couch it so negatively

[short radish]

eh even though i'm gonna be playing rogue until i quit wow

i really wish when i started to play wow, someone told me to not play it

pugging is not a good time

[keen dome]

Just be the puglord.

Form the pug around yourself.

[junior ether]

i've tried keys only and only rogue i got somehow in s2

not super high, but i got all 15 and 1 - 16, was ok for first time playing wow

i've tried healers and got destroyed tho

[short radish]

ye thats pretty impressive tbh

for first time wow gaming

thats like top 1% or something

[junior ether]

mostly carried ngl, even tho i was doing it LFG only - was always 3rd among my party DPS xD

[short radish]

if you're sticking with rogue then you should learn how to play all specs

[junior ether]

ye i played full season 2 as assa

and now wanna play sub

[short radish]

ye

and if you need to go back to assi it's not changed that much i think

except for spreading crimson tempest

sub is relatively simple

largly 2(3) buttons

you just gotta play around sectech

[junior ether]

ye i just started like 2 days ago trying buttons

at least around casual content it looks pretty obvious

[short radish]

[wet raft]

Am I missing something obvious? Secret Technique's cooldown is being affected by haste but I cant find anything in the tree that is causing that

[vagrant fulcrum]

Some CDs are hasted

[wet raft]

does the cooldown being in green the indicator that its affected by haste?

[plain dome]

is it possible that diminishing returns on secondaries wasnt active last week? logged on tested and couldnt get the last global in my dance window, then checked and had less haste than last week :/

[vagrant fulcrum]

Flask maybe?

[plain dome]

nope

[sage pond]

also have less haste, something there was changed 100%, i have multiple rogues that were exactly 35% haste yesterday and they all now have 32/33% haste now buffed

[alpine wraith]

yep many classes/specs have that

[wet raft]

Ah thank you! Completely escaped my notice until the Valentine buff was giving me 500% haste LOL

also doesnt help that when I came back to the game I was Assa... and doesnt look like they have a CD thats reduced by haste

[lilac stag]

There are def some days that I wish that initial char choice was different.

Now in the “fuck it, whatever” era

[fallow nimbus]

Mana oils on weapons?

[pallid jackal]

Any changes with the new talent system released today?

[short radish]

yeah i try play my prot paladin every so often

and half way through i just get bored

same with hpal

[lilac stag]

rogue marriage... Through thick and thin, for better or for worse. We just have really shitty divorce attorneys

[pallid jackal]

But the talents are different now than they were yesterday I think right? I mean you used to be able to get into deeper strategem

[tribal blade]

#subtlety message

[lilac stag]

It’s literally the pinned message

@tribal blade how did your mount farm dps go?

[vale pine]

yes, you have less points in the general tree, we now go with the middle path and ds

[tribal blade]

it was ok, was still able to keep up on some fights

on others i got smoked

[vale pine]

the fast fight time helps a bit

i asusme its worse in m+

[tribal blade]

i keep forgetting to swap forge for lily during nexus king haha

that's a fight where you get 2 cd sets

actually i was top 3 dps on plexus and dimmy

nexus king i was 7th but if i had remembered to put on lily would def be higher

[lilac stag]

We only did NK and Dimmy. Both felt like a struggle. I have to see if I actually logged.

[tribal blade]

kinda does yeah

[tribal blade]

honestly no idea, i haven't done a key in over a month i think

[torn cedar]

what actually changed in the talents? patchnote just said -8% dmg, so why was my tree reset

[tribal blade]

#subtlety message

[vale pine]

this

[keen dome]

Midnight gives us +3 class tree talent points from leveling. As such, the gating on each segment has changed.

[torn cedar]

so... tldr the 3 points are non starters because we have to spend previous points and get nothing we want in return?

[alpine wraith]

you get some utility but there is also extra dmg than before on tww sprinkled

[vale pine]

you get more utility

for less dps

thats it

the gate moves for everyone, its not subtlety exclusive

[azure thicket]

yeah i talked to a udk/fdk today and they said the changes got some heinous amount of their damage

[keen dome]

Once we hit 90 it's whatever, too.

[azure thicket]

60-80k in cds from 100k

[vale pine]

i just pinned it quickly when they announced the patch

because it is a change thats unexpected

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's weird to see it so early

[vale pine]

you rarely log in and lose talent points

more or less lose, but have unspend ones

[keen dome]

You've not actually lost any, though.

The gating just requires more.

[vale pine]

yep

but if you login and just start a raid

its easy to miss

[keen dome]

Very, yeah

[iron whale]

import string link takes me to a calculator that is wholly reset? 😮

[vale pine]

yes

[iron whale]

where can I find your new build for sub? 🥺 👉 👈

[alpine wraith]

we will need to go ingame a get a new code i think

[vale pine]

here

but also

[alpine wraith]

many of them broke

[lilac stag]

Is not that difficult

[vale pine]

i think i should just link to the talent page now

because its now updated

so its whatever

[keen dome]

Look, man. You say that but guess who put stuff into cold blood this morning without thinking. It's DIFFICULT.

[iron whale]

so we lost cold blood?
I mean as a non numbers player I'm only glad cause the visuals for cold blood looks like shit...................

[keen dome]

I also find the visual annoying and wish they'd change it from "haha hand glow blue"

[lilac stag]

Pick two new defensives. Drop CB branch. Holy fuck.

[lilac stag]

It’s should be a perma red mark over our heads

[iron whale]

yes it's hideous, but again.. Blizz never cared to really update baseline rogue abilities
see Sprint and Shadowstep, they still look exactly the same as release in vanilla/tbc

[keen dome]

hahaha

[vale pine]

updated it

[keen dome]

It should be a cool skeleton face floating above your head imo

[keen dome]

I don't mind Sprint and Step. They're fine. But it's the cold blood one which is so weird imo

Because it's the first time we've had it linger randomly out of combat

[iron whale]

I find it so ugly, Sprint is literally just a Line coming out of your character's spine

and in the case of Blood/Void Elf, it misaligns so you can see where it begins and it's detachedfrom the body lol

[lilac stag]

I love how fuu has unintentionally confused people by showing an example of less talented including CB

[keen dome]

Haha

[lilac stag]

Also reading is hard. I know this. I’m an American.

[keen dome]

I have to be proud of something and being very stupid is something.

[vale pine]

i updated the image tho

[keen dome]

Hero

[vale pine]

but open for input, i think it is fairly easy to understand

[lilac stag]

You realize green looks like what should be go good to go and red is no good

[vale pine]

(and was fast to create in paint)

ohh

[torn tide]

fuu its already on wowhead right?

[vale pine]

thats a good point

[vale pine]

yes

[keen dome]

Yeah, swapping those around is a good shout

[vale pine]

good point, moment

[torn tide]

okay im blind it literally says we can find it in wowhead and icyveins, thanks

[lilac stag]

My design degree saving rogue players again.

https://tenor.com/view/your-welcome-you're-welcome-welcome-welcome-bro-welcome-my-love-gif-13157160919128335536

[vale pine]

alright, changed

[lilac stag]

I’d just post the full talent tree like I did. Idiot proof the UTILITY TALENTS?!?! But my tolerance for prepatch stupidity is low at this point.

2 more weeks

[keen dome]

Excellent, that's really good

[keen dome]

This is also a good idea and would stop me from putting stuff in dumb talents because stupid.

Although people would probaly ask about Airborne

[vale pine]

ye

everyone has diffrent preferences too

[lilac stag]

It’s almost like they never used it in 12.0

[vale pine]

e.g. i think iron stomach is rly good

[lilac stag]

With the number of people asking why it’s ST yesterday

[vale pine]

while others like shroud speed more

or shiv

[vale pine]

the change is wild tbh

because rogue lost their aoe stop

kinda

(once bugs are fixed)

[lilac stag]

Id never make it in the ret discord dealing with this.

[keen dome]

Haha

[lilac stag]

!magic8ball is the tool tip the error or is the spell the error

[keen dome]

I hope it's a tool tip error.

[vale pine]

its probably not

[keen dome]

I can hope 🙁

[vale pine]

because it was explicitly stated in the blue post

[lilac stag]

We fucked in m+ if there’s no more tuning and zero utility

[lilac stag]

So has a shit ton of other stuff that never happened

[fleet wharf]

some ppl were talking about kidney shot being useful on some packs?

[lilac stag]

ion where are my crimson vial updates?

[keen dome]

"We've heard the requests and we've updated the crimson vial icon"

[fleet wharf]

I am very out of the loop, what's going on with crimson vial?

[keen dome]

Nothing.

[vale pine]

it was nerfed in shadowlands

the reason was, they wanted to shift some of its power in pickpocket items

however, there was never any pickpocket item added

making the change just a nerf

[fleet wharf]

I see. I do wonder if there's any plan to give us group utility

or a more meaningful raidbuff

[lilac stag]

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[thin sinew]

o7 coldblood

[broken seal]

Did they change something with skyfury ? I Never paid attention before but 5% with rogues looks huge. Was it the same before ?

[cobalt vector]

more shadow technique procs v good.

[vale pine]

we rely on shadowcraft more, so its better

[broken seal]

Okay okay

[hazy breach]

It was 5% before too

It's closer to 8% on the beta

[broken seal]

Thanks for this info!

[thin sinew]

Hmm haste scaling defo changed

was 35%ish before reset now only 30%

[rustic geyser]

are we getting all like "you need 43% and 23% and 72% or youre fucking dog son" now?

[lilac stag]

They likely tweaked ilvl / stat scaling at some point over the last 2 weeks. Just resim if it’s a concern.

[slender kraken]

lets see what beta tuning brings us today, sub to strong aoe nerf 5%

[sour horizon]

We have swirley ball glyph for cheerleading!

[pallid jackal]

Anyone else notice that sub is way less better compared to this pre-patch?

[harsh meadow]

Not sure I understand what you mean

[upbeat garden]

?

[pallid jackal]

Thanks!

[upbeat garden]

U mean its better on beta or ?

[pallid jackal]

Yeah sorry, I mean that after the latest patches now on retail, it feels like less dps

[alpine wraith]

yea we lost some dps talents

[upbeat garden]

I wouldnt play rogue on prepatch imho

[alpine wraith]

and haste got krangled a bit

so check if you need more again to get to 35%

[pallid jackal]

I also was talented sub-optimally now as I see Fuu's message

I've got 33% haste unbuffed

What opener are you guys doing? I have seen multiple versions on the logs thus far

[vale pine]

subtlety is worse this patch

both sin and outlaw got buffs

we got a nerf

[thin sinew]

We lost DPS talents and we got an aura nerf so

[pallid jackal]

Ah yea so the 8% nerf did come through

It is noticeable

[vale pine]

and bugfixes/etc paly into it

[thin sinew]

the talents are more noticable

[vale pine]

and i didn't hype optimize the new profiles

its literally just "new general tree setup"

on the good side

[thin sinew]

yeh it's only relevant for 2 weeks anyway

[keen dome]

Ye

[vale pine]

it seems like sub trickster and deathstalker are now very close

[pallid jackal]

Is it that we now optimize for 30% haste?

[void ocean]

what is the bottom table

[viral parrot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[mental saddle]

did they prune the raids ? did a heroic run and seems to be not as easy

[red vortex]

sin is popping off

damn

[vale pine]

before patch
now

[void ocean]

oh

[torn tide]

i love that sub are basically the same with ds and trickster

[vale pine]

just keep in mind thats 5 min sim

[void ocean]

naa, we doomed

dead spec

[vale pine]

you can't rly sim super short fights reliably

i just took a look

most fights are sub 1 min

which is just

"play whatever"

saladbar and dimmy both have good kill timers for us

so technically sub could show up good on statistics

we will see in a few days

[iron tartan]

Should we expect any further tuning for classes before release?

[void ocean]

yes

will those expectations be fullfilled, now thats the other questions

[proper eagle]

so the outlaw is best spec in simc

[torn tide]

u just gotta believe that sub will get buffed to the point people wanna play it

[void ocean]

bruh thats not how we roll in sub channel

[torn tide]

is the way u roll the doomed mindset

[void ocean]

doom, brother, eternal DOOM

welcome to Dead Spec Society 😄

[dry plank]

here is only guy have faith 🙂 all other are doomers xD

[torn tide]

yes faith

it needs to happen and it will

[lilac stag]

Usually is.

[proper eagle]

should be another patch waiting for sub

[lilac stag]

When one guy is “popping off” (competing) in beta keys and the only 2 fights getting logged on prepatch are perfect sub timing… enjoy the hammer.

Heroic week came early.

[dry plank]

dont worry people we got 8% nerf before expansion start than entire expantion at last month of each tier we will get 5% aura buf and BP % buffs, we are good 🙂

[lilac stag]

I mean we’re ahead of schedule.

• talents all implemented before prepatch
• bugs addressed before release
• heroic raid nerf hammer done during prepatch.

[torn tide]

sub will be buffed to become the best class 100%

[lilac stag]

The sky is bright and clear for sub.

[void ocean]

https://giphy.com/gifs/the-simpsons-lemon-bittersweet-cFDdEQMGh6UDe

[harsh meadow]

[bronze turret]

Did they fix bugs now?

[alpine wraith]

they have fixed some bugs but no idea if it was pushed to live

[keen dome]

Don't you mean purple.

[alpine wraith]

last ones fixed were macabre on sec tech

and the random unseen from storm going into main target

but have to check

[graceful osprey]

Okay, hear me out. What if sub rogues raid utility is that we give all raid/party members a chance to summon a shadow clone that mimics the ability that they just did at 50% effectiveness

[lilac stag]

Some yes. Which is way more than previous expansions.

The bar is very low

https://tenor.com/view/that's-an-exceptionally-low-bar-wednesday-addams-wednesday-that's-a-ridiculously-low-standard-netflix-gif-2930856993498214541

[limpid sage]

windfury on Compound V

[lilac stag]

Just delete monks since none of them are happy and give us our buff back

[hazy breach]

Remove the windfury from skyfury so we dont need to play with a shaman

[lilac stag]

I think we have a better shot of sht not being affected and oh weapon speed being normalized.

until then be nice to the blueberries

[swift tinsel]

ShT Skyfury blacklist + Thrash Blade class tree talent plz

Hell, can even make it a class passive like CttC

[keen dome]

I'm sorting all my alts out before Midnight and urgh, I always miss rogue movement speed

it's so bad. Everyone is SO SLOW.

[clever delta]

talent imports not working-?

[alpine wraith]

need to make new ones

from ingame

[upbeat garden]

did keys got scaled to a bigger diff?

tried a few 23s

they feel like 30

[alpine wraith]

all specs kinda got nerfed dmg

we did lose some talents and secondaries got a bit squished

[open coyote]

so in all sub talents (as in m+ and raid and DS/Trick doesn't affect the choice) we don't pick CB we just go straight down the middle?

[plush roost]

You did what we did last week, but u dont take 1x lethality and cb

[open coyote]

i am not entirely certain what we did last week i have this now

[upbeat cradle]

i think we replaced cold blood with something else ?

[open coyote]

btw isn't ticking sack of terror really good ST trinket?

[plush roost]

🔒 This message is not publicly available due to possibly inappropriate content.
Discord now requires ID verification in order to see certain messages. Learn More

Ye that tree looks good

[hazy breach]

Get improved ambush instead of tight spender

[haughty mural]

Charrend with nsfw messages

Damn

[lilac stag]

Have to test.

https://tenor.com/view/bbrunette-gif-20014744

[open coyote]

cheers

i assume tree is similar in m+

[ionic agate]

so sub rogue not just getting 8% nerf we loss cold blood talent aswell

intersting

[lilac stag]

we don’t lose it. It’s just on holiday for 2 weeks.

[ionic agate]

yeah i mean for prepatch

😄

[open coyote]

btw i should never press shuriken storm on ST evne when i have the buff from going stealth right

[ionic agate]

true

[lilac stag]

You press it as a builder if you don’t have full cps going into dance

[open coyote]

i'll stop that immideatly then, it was confusing me because "oh look i have a buff from going stealth"

[lilac stag]

#subtlety-faq

[plush roost]

I tried changing the link to rick astley and sending to my guild but it fucking embedded the video

Unreal

My shitpost is ruined!!!

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/gift-gif-25408533

[tribal blade]

the unreal part for me is i was an adult when rick rolling first started

[hazy breach]

Ye remove that buff from your tracker

Its irrelevant

[astral axle]

its over :(

pouring one out for the dank meme never seen

[tribal blade]

did rick rolling start so long ago it's actually cool to do it again

i think a lot of internet memes have been having that kind of resurgence

[open coyote]

will do ty

[crystal bone]

law needs a new icon

that shit is

[swift tinsel]

Make it the tumbleweed

I hear they love that

[tribal blade]

it reminds me of stuff like this

which is so not cool

[crystal bone]

should be gun-related

killing spree's new icon is dope

something like that

maybe

[bleak night]

counterpoint

https://klipy.com/gifs/the-princess-bride-you-seem-like-a-decent-fellow-i-hate-to-kill-you-inigo-montoya

[tribal blade]

MM true

also this

but i think outlaw's icon should be a like a blunderbuss or something

would look rad

[crystal bone]

ye, the spec revolves around between the eyes

not a sword

and now we can mog swords on all 3 specs

so its not even as unique anymore

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/puss-in-boots-puss-in-boots-the-last-wish-sigh-gif-27592563

[blissful spindle]

@vale pine Just a heads up - typo here.
https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/talent-builds-pve-dps#delves

[tribal blade]

oh true

[lilac stag]

omg someone opened the delve page

[tribal blade]

delves are srs bsns

[lilac stag]

Delves are bis content

[crystal bone]

i just used the m+ build

for the 2 weeks i did any delves

[vale pine]

thanks, will fix in a moment

[swift tinsel]

best not be hatin on delves here

[bleak night]

i like delves

[blissful spindle]

I imagine trickster will be a bit nicer in delves come Midnight, given we don't have to deal with Brann doing weird ranged things and chasing him to Narnia through pools of bad.

[lilac stag]

Think it’s in ref to the 2 week comment

[bleak night]

although i also just use m+ build normally

[tribal blade]

i felt like delves were a missed opportunity till i saw casuals in /2 saying how much they love them

so now i know i'm just not the target audience

[bleak night]

its good casual content

[lilac stag]

S2 delves were better. The goblins had better visuals and personalities

[keen dome]

Yeah, S2 delves best

[bleak night]

the s2 delves were good yeah

[lilac stag]

The s3 shit is just purple

[tribal blade]

i tried a delve or 2 on the beta and the new brann is a rogue who does the same shit running around pulling stuff for god knows why

maybe they fixed her

[keen dome]

I hope the Labyrthin thing does a good job of adding more content and challenge to them

[tribal blade]

hopefully they did

[bleak night]

archival assault was fun just because you could shadowstep during the active ability it gave you and one shot stuff

[keen dome]

I would like them to get smoother scaling and add Myth vault to Delves. Then it's just good.

[blissful spindle]

I did a bit on beta and it didn't seem as bad, but I could still see it being a problem regardless.

[lilac stag]

Trying to not brick the timer. Pull faster.

[tribal blade]

i only have crimson vial /cry

[keen dome]

Finally, everybody can experience how cool it is playing with a rogue.

[blissful spindle]

The ranged pathing on Brann is just consistently bad, so hopefully it's slightly improved at least.

[lilac stag]

rogue actually doing rogue things in a dungeon in a delve is perfect.

[upbeat smelt]

Amen!

[keen dome]

I love the little elements they've added to Delves over the expansion. Gravestones, mobs that killed your buddies, ghosts, etc

It's very cute

[tribal blade]

on a random note they buffed the AI in battlegrounds where you go against AI

they used ot be pushovers

now they're kinda cracked

crazy reaction timing

[blissful spindle]

Would be cool for them to gamify the gravestones, like get revenge on an empowered enemy that killed a guildie/friend and gain some small reward additionally.

[keen dome]

Did they, or is it just because they're wearing S1 Midnight stuff like that one week of S2 TWW haha

[tribal blade]

honestly no idea, i did some AI battleground with my guildie a few weeks back to farm decor

[keen dome]

Ye

[tribal blade]

and you could 5 cap the AI no problem with half the team

they were completely useless

[keen dome]

There's a good chance they upgraded them, though. They were very useless.

[bleak night]

yeah i think they might be using midnight gear ngl

at least they are using midnight appearances

[keen dome]

but they typically get the honour-scaled stuff of the season they're in

[tribal blade]

that would make sense

[keen dome]

oh yeah they 100% are then

[bleak night]

i went from spawn camping them in the mines

[tribal blade]

i literally typed during the match "did they buff the AI or are we just sucking"

[bleak night]

to an arathi being harder than actual pvp

[keen dome]

So you are basically fighting people in S1 Midnight honour gear, scaled to level 80.

[tribal blade]

someone said they buffed the AI

[bleak night]

they didnt seem any smarter to me

just stronger

[tribal blade]

we still won but it was close

[tribal blade]

yeah true

they had insane reaction timing before too

[keen dome]

Yeah that sounds like they just did the same as S2 TWW where we had the brawl active but nobody had S2 gear yet

[tribal blade]

like casting iceblock at 1 hp

TWICE IN A ROW

crazy

i'm not even exaggerating, exactly 1 hp

[bleak night]

lmao

[tribal blade]

2 times in 1 match

[bleak night]

they're definitely smarter than they were during comp stomp at least

they move around the map better and everything

[tribal blade]

yeah i think we were doing comp stomp

yeah! they team up more it seems

[bleak night]

instead of mainly just sending a fucking rogue or feral to try and back cap

[keen dome]

I imagine they had to improve their pathfinding and response stuff since they're on other maps now

[swift tinsel]

Comp Stomp is the only real time my hunter gets any playtime lol

[keen dome]

I love they added comp stomp to exist 24/7

Such a good change to pvp farming

[swift tinsel]

wait really?!?

so many free marks lol

[bleak night]

yeah this is training grounds now

[tribal blade]

yeah it's called something else now

yeah that

[keen dome]

Training Grounds, yeah

And it's multiple maps

[bleak night]

the point also changed from being a fun brawl to actually meaning to be an intro to pvp

so makes sense they made the ai better

[keen dome]

It's Comp Stomp but multiple maps + always available.

And as Bel said, an intro

[tribal blade]

the AI 1 on 1 don't seem too bad tbh

if you have a brain

[keen dome]

It's one of those really good ideas blizz occasionally has

[swift tinsel]

does it still award marks?

[tribal blade]

but if you go 1 v 2 you're kinda boned

[bleak night]

yup

[swift tinsel]

oh hell yeah

[bleak night]

and achievements even

[keen dome]

Ye, marks, honour, etc.

And I believe it counts for some pvp weeklies

[swift tinsel]

perfect for a time sink activity

[bleak night]

got the one for a perfect silvershard mines game a couple weeks ago

[keen dome]

Nice

[bleak night]

bc the ai gave up and stopped coming out of spawn

[swift tinsel]

hell yeah

[keen dome]

I'm going to use it to grind out some of the more obnoxious PvP achievements

[tribal blade]

i missed the train on farming the decor when the AI was weak haha

[keen dome]

Because lol winning Silvershard

[keen dome]

week 3 of midnight

just slam it with conq, it'll be a joke

[tribal blade]

i'll be doing other stuff /cry

[keen dome]

Week 4

Week 7.

Week 22. World is your lobster

unlike me, who is trapped in alt organization mines..

[swift tinsel]

Lol I should reallllly do that

and also get my professions sorted before midnight

I haven't looked into much of anything besides the main potions/flasks for crafting

[keen dome]

Getting them all sorted out talent wise, gear-wise, cloak from K'aresh, getting all the free quest things done, any heritage or class specific things, grabbing basic professions..

So when I want to level them in Midnight I can just go

[swift tinsel]

ye thats a good call

I have my spreadsheet set for crafting costs for midnight but I haven't looked at wep consumes yet

[graceful osprey]

I feel like I should drop engineering lol

[bleak night]

if potions stay as strong as they apparently were on beta im definitely making my priest alch and trying to abuse that

plus once im lazy and give up on professions like i always do i get the flask benefits

[swift tinsel]

one page gets the prices then the other auto-pulls them and calculates how much it costs to make stuff vs buying at ranks 1 and 2

[keen dome]

Engineering is very comfy on my main because of teleports + mailbox + vendors and occasionally crafting orders

[bleak night]

engi is the only way i ever made actual money on an expansion launch

[keen dome]

Sometimes I want to swap it to BS but I honestly get a ton of value out of vendors + teleports

[bleak night]

selling zapthrottle soul thingies in dragonflight

bc there were like 2 people making them

was like 100k a piece

[swift tinsel]

I usually just do concentration burn on potions or flasks depending on which random recipes you learn until I have them all

[keen dome]

Smart

[swift tinsel]

(I still fucking hate random recipe learning from experimentation)

[keen dome]

If I don't know what to give someone, they're getting Enchanting haha

[bleak night]

yeah alchemy/enchanting is the default for anything i play as main

bc im lazy

[swift tinsel]

lmao I haven't sunk any effort into enchanting besides at launch and made the mistake of buying greens when they were like 300g a piece

[bleak night]

so longer flask+disenchanting

[swift tinsel]

I usually put herb/min so I can farm when I'm bored or out and about

[bleak night]

i abused the fuck out of warband bank on tww launch

[swift tinsel]

but rogue is jc/min for that reason

[bleak night]

buying greens for pennies on other servers than sending them over and disenchanting

[swift tinsel]

yeah I should have looked into that lol

[bleak night]

if i wasnt lazy i couldve made a ton with that

[swift tinsel]

spend tens of thousands of gold

and then couldn't make much bc Tinderboxes were crazy

[bleak night]

but the auction house was broken as fuck on launch and every other item i tried to buy didnt work

[swift tinsel]

and got scooped up immediately or were wildly expensive

[bleak night]

so i gave up

[swift tinsel]

yeah

I didn't really get into AH'ing in tww until s2 for the most part

before the start of season 3 I had like 800 spare tempered potions, 150-200 flasks, hundreds of whetstones

it helps I love flying around gathering when I'm bored lol so I had just fucktons of herbs and ores

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade if you missed it, they activated audio alerts for buffs

[tribal blade]

just saw today!

so happy

[swift tinsel]

about fucking time lol

[tribal blade]

can finally get back audio alerts for DN and coup

i think the biggest WA i really miss are my custom ones for DN and coup

i made them so there's absolutely 0 chance you miss activating them

btw are they ever gonna let us track FW

[lilac stag]

rtb and BF

[radiant swift]

what utility did u guys go for, now that we lost some points? additional feint charge and?

[vale pine]

blind

its still aoe

even tho it shouldn't

[radiant swift]

airborne iritant?

[surreal willow]

do we have a stun skill that hits AEO?

[swift tinsel]

nope

just aoe blind

[surreal willow]

I know only the cheap shot and kidney shot

[swift tinsel]

we had aoe kidney shot for like 5 days of dragonflight ptr

rip Stunning Secret the goat

[oblique sequoia]

How do we attack now with less energy? Feels weird having just 100

[hazy breach]

Huh

You should have been playing with 100 for a while now

[radiant swift]

is raidbots broken due to the update?

[vale pine]

should work

[radiant swift]

i have the same chest i have on now and simmed it to a higher ilvl - its somehow worse, that cant be right

[pallid jackal]

Someone with good logs, what is the opener you are currently using?

[oblique sequoia]

I am sure befor the update today we had more then 100 o:

[hazy breach]

I mean yeah if you specced into it

But the extra energy is mostly pointless

[oblique sequoia]

I just grabebd the best from Raider.IO for Sub but he didnt played today so i just grabbed it from wowhead

[sleek thunder]

Is Tea talent row useless you say?

[tulip light]

Maybe u are comparing vs old class tree sim with more dmg talents

[tulip light]

Yes

[radiant swift]

forgot the chest enchantment - didnt think it would make such a huge diffrence

[sleek thunder]

Hmm okey I test without

[hazy breach]

You have infinite energy either way during your cds, and you dont do much damage outside of cds

[celest wyvern]

devourer is pumping like truck and they nerfed sub 8%

like wtf

[swift tinsel]

✨ prepatch✨

[celest wyvern]

yeah i hope in expac release sub doing well

[left shale]

new spec. always ends up op before they nerf it later down the line

[lilac stag]

What have realized in the last 48 hours is people have an unhealthy obsession with combo points on the target nameplate & using Tea as a sub rogue.

[azure thicket]

i heard warlock used to be meta back in bfa or shadowlands along with surv hunter

[lilac stag]

SV was meta Jaikor Tuer

All the bombs with 2 buttons and a WA

[azure thicket]

was it always prio/funnel/pad for dps profiles or was that a later thing

[swift tinsel]

destro had nutty aoe

[lilac stag]

That version of SV did everything

[bleak night]

bombs did everything you could imagine

year of the bomba

[warm marlin]

both of those specs were just mega omega broken

2x destro surv comps

[lilac stag]

The spec was fun but the WA trivialized it soooooo bad

[warm marlin]

the only time in the entire history of m+ (per the one good website) that the average count of a spec in high keys per group was above 1

crazy

[azure thicket]

as an binding of isaac ipecac enjoyer..ye lol

[lilac stag]

@warm marlin did you do sales last night?

[swift tinsel]

or double outlaw

in bfa iirc

[warm marlin]

no i havent done content since december

why u ask

[azure thicket]

big green tear go explode, boom even esp with tear detonator

[lilac stag]

I was curious how your dmg looked

[swift tinsel]

Wildfire Infusion was goated

[lilac stag]

One night of NA and sub down like 13 slots in raid

[warm marlin]

8% + losing the capstone?

[lilac stag]

sV and DH still pumping 1 and 2

All just silly prepatch stuff. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/44/?region=3&sample=1

[shrewd lantern]

it just did alot of damage

[azure thicket]

but also isaac guy without pyromaniac/host hat you tended to also explode yourself

[shrewd lantern]

prio damage is fucking cope

[lilac stag]

don’t need prio when you level everything

[warm marlin]

true true

the one other time

[shrewd lantern]

anyone who claims prio makes a spec meta has no idea what they’re talking what’s good

[lilac stag]

The double lock + sv kinda insane when you think about kicks.

[shrewd lantern]

”why was warlock good”

[swift tinsel]

esp bc it was bdk and disc

not really adding many stops lol

[warm marlin]

the good old days when stops were kicks

and mobs didn't spamcast bolts

[reef walrus]

you didn't really need stops on trash because of the locks

the tier set infernals had a non DR stun every time iirc

[swift tinsel]

did Blasphemy stun

ye

[shrewd lantern]

I mean the truth people dont want to acknowledge

is rogue wont ever be meta pick

unless its grossly overtuned

[swift tinsel]

well yeah

we know that lmao

that's not a secret at all

[azure thicket]

they tried nerfing prot pal for a few weeks there or something