subtlety

[slate marlin]

bananas as melee was a fking nightmare too

[plush roost]

My fabovorite part was feinting before the water circles casted because it didnt work otherwise

[tribal blade]

or if you forgot to use your eyes and kept running into bananas

[plush roost]

Only for it to not target you

-20 energy W

[warm depot]

W

[hazy breach]

Tbf it is a lot better to feint

[tribal blade]

LOL that was classic

[hazy breach]

Than to press barkskin

And not have it target you

[plush roost]

True hahaha

[hazy breach]

Or whatever other defensives other classes have

[tribal blade]

holy shit that boss was so toxic

also bressing on that boss

esp if your bres died

was something

[slate marlin]

i still cant understand why they didnt fix that

it felt awful to waste a defensive

[plush roost]

Same reason they didnt fix db

"Yeah we are never returning this dungeon"

[plush trout]

guys, from a scale 1 to 10 how clean did i get my ui?

[plush roost]

Needs more windex

[slate marlin]

im not sure its lined up

[plush roost]

That was instant well done

[tribal blade]

why icon for backstab

[left ledge]

Two energy bars is diabolical

Just go base UI at this point

[slate marlin]

bc when i dont zoom its not but when i zoom it looks like it is

[lilac stag]

And a scrub brush

[plush trout]

so it doesnt look so tiny💀

[plush roost]

Oh ive found a problem actually

[plush trout]

my old wa was full of shi

[plush roost]

Where is wangbar?

[tribal blade]

LOL fair enough tbh

[plush roost]

#wang

[warm depot]

padding between ur unit frame and backstab is different from target unit frame and sectech

[plush trout]

flag sod sd sb cb sectec

[warm depot]

by like a handful of px

[tribal blade]

awang?

[plush roost]

Yknow, wangbar?

Local

[plush roost]

Homegrown

[warm depot]

its also vertically unaligned byt a few px

[plush roost]

Masterful

[warm depot]

gotta fix that

[slate marlin]

so im not the only one who noticed

[warm depot]

if my shit aint clean

[slate marlin]

if its not perfectly aligned something inside of me explodes

[warm depot]

my play wont be either

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/where-there's-a-will-there's-a-wang-ben-brad-gage-wong-fu-productions-asian-bachelorette-2-gif-3610278869484465864

[plush trout]

so tf did u do so that deathmark and shadow technique to be in separate part of the screen

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/steve-carrell-magic-tada-magician-trick-gif-15099383

[left ledge]

Actually all you need to track is sectec and blades

[tribal blade]

i read that and was like how in tf are deathmark and shadow techniques existing on the same UI

[left ledge]

If you have anything extra that’s suboptimal

[plush roost]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/wangbar-resource-bars

[distant sage]

Is it possible to have shadow dance as an independent bar

[left ledge]

You’re allocating brain space to track things that aren’t blades or sectec

[tribal blade]

ohhhhh

[plush roost]

Haha #wangedout

[lilac stag]

#subtlety message that’s the blue bar

[tribal blade]

oh shit this looks dope, i'll download this tomorrow

[plush roost]

(Its actually super responsive, probably best cpbar)

[distant sage]

Damn bruh ur shi clean as fuck

[lilac stag]

Blades also independent

[warm depot]

wait what skin are u using for the cd tracker

[plush roost]

Way better than sensei which lags

[tribal blade]

does it have customization for sht?

[lilac stag]

What’s funny is, only difference I notice is cps is in outlaw

[sacred yarrow]

thank you for the cpbar 🫡

[plush roost]

Nah sht is blackboxed

[tribal blade]

i'm gonna scream

[plush roost]

Still have to stare at the icon sorry pal

[lilac stag]

you can custom sht in arc

[tribal blade]

holy shit i'm gonna riot

[tribal blade]

i think i'm too stupid to set that up

[plush roost]

To do what we did previously? Like backfill cp bars?

Or just a tracker

[lilac stag]

I don’t know if I saved it. You can my a 14pt sht bar

[haughty mural]

dont worry i hate it too and i really did put a lot of time in it

[lilac stag]

Lemme look

[plush roost]

Yeah id like to see that

Cause that was mt favorite wa feature

[tribal blade]

i'm gonna try to rely on just base UI for most things as much as i can 😉

[haughty mural]

probably a good call - i got so invested in arc that i hesitate to get away from it. Although it annoys me

[plush roost]

This is what i mean by track sht on your bar, backfilling

[lilac stag]

i can't find it and servers are down. you can set the bar fills any number of ways

[plush roost]

Its fun when you apex proc on beta, you get 5cp back then 2 more .3 seconds later. Thats the sensei lag

[plush roost]

Interesting... maybe i look into arc then. Unless @lunar bluff can make this a feature....

Supportlocalbuisnesses

[lilac stag]

you're tracking the buff so pretty sure his is just the class resources

seperate monster

i mentioned it at one point

but wang bar kept being angry with colors so I went back to sensei

[distant sage]

What do you guys use for custom bars im pretty illiterate in addons

[lilac stag]

you can also turn arc off for everything but bar tracking

arc just gives you the most customization right now

[plush roost]

Sweet, sounds like we should make an addon for all these little addon features

Call it like, Strong Addons

[lilac stag]

call it MA for Midnight Auras

[plush roost]

Mm

Maybe a little weak tho?

What about WeakAura

[lilac stag]

paywall it like echo liquid and naowh

maybe WEEKauras

[plush roost]

Every 2 weeks?

[lilac stag]

to not get confused with previous

[plush roost]

WeekAura2?

[lilac stag]

12 weeks if it's blizzard looking at sub

[plush roost]

Wdym they looked at us right away

8% faster than usual u could say

[lilac stag]

yep. 12 weeks from today we get a 30% BP buff

[plush roost]

Erm

Lets start with maybe not a 30% overall ability hehe

[swift tinsel]

I think I'm already over every CDM addon

[lilac stag]

sorry, only can use BP modifier for balancing

[plush roost]

Bp up 30%, sub aura nerfed 20% fixed

Study the bizzalrd way

[lilac stag]

I think I'm already over every the CDM addon

• fixed

[plush roost]

I installed better cdm yestersay

Trinket tracking works on live but is borked on beta

Xd

[lilac stag]

like everything else

Xd

[warm depot]

xd

[plush roost]

Items and racials work

[lilac stag]

I can't wait for the real beta to start on NA

[plush roost]

Just not.. trinkets

Yahp

I raid dimmy today

Sorry boys

-8%

Inc

[warm depot]

krappa

i went into dimmy last week with 1% haste

that was fun

[swift tinsel]

honestly if the base cdm allowed icon x/y and text editing it would be fine

[warm marlin]

time to rip out the PE build + sword offhand

[lilac stag]

have to sort out to stay VE or go hoomie

[plush roost]

[lilac stag]

if the base CDM let us actually put in any of our spells it would be fine

[swift tinsel]

but no addon can do all of the things without either breaking or conflicting with other addons

[lilac stag]

fucking alpha half assed shit they didnt itterate on for an entire expansion

[swift tinsel]

dynamic groups

[lilac stag]

CDM is BFA Sub Rogue

[swift tinsel]

not having my icons reshuffle on login

not have cooldown text just disappear

[plush roost]

Ive heard from a credible source that the addon thing wasnt supposed to be at the same time as the class pruning, but Ion pushed the class stuff

Beeeeg xd

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/ion-hazzikostas-wow-suck-gif-27169259

[warm depot]

god bless ion

[lilac stag]

arc has been stable for me

[swift tinsel]

that's the one where the cooldown text disappears, even when its the only addon running so no conflicts causing it

[lilac stag]

will see what today brings

[lilac stag]

sounds like masque

[swift tinsel]

"even when its the only addon running"

[lilac stag]

i get the running part

[swift tinsel]

loaded, whatever

[lilac stag]

masque would fuck up and lock in

latest versions of arc does a better job of removing masque caused issues

it's comical how shit just gets attached to edit mode some how magically

bliz ui just garbo still when it comes to letting calls modify apprearances

11.2.10 beta version of masque was a bit more stable with CDM

idk what the live version number is

arc 3.4.7 beta vers should actually alert on load if there are masque conflicts, even if it's not loaded

[warm marlin]

wasn't it that the addon stuff was supposed to be tlt, but it got pushed to midnight instead?

[hazy breach]

I mean the addon stuff without the class changes wouldve been even worse

Not being able to track things you actively need to track

[copper fiber]

why can we not track sinister strike on the cdm

[lilac stag]

why do you need to?

[compact iron]

anyone else cantt see the death recap while using details?

[copper fiber]

because i like to see my spells on my WA

thats how ive always played

[lilac stag]

put an action bar there instead?

[copper fiber]

i can do that, my point is that i shouldn't have to, they gave us a half baked cdm

[lilac stag]

A builder isn’t a cooldown

complain about FW tracking

Sure

Backstab has zero reason to be there

Or just use the default UI action bar

Well if you play outlaw a builder is a cd

[copper fiber]

my point is that you could easily have all that stuff on weakauas without issue, then they make that go away, put in a cdm as a replacement, and it can't do the same basic functionality

[lilac stag]

and you could do a lot of shit with WAs that broke encounters.

[hazy breach]

Correct, blizzard is trying to prevent people from overwhelming themselves with completely useless information

Such as tracking useless poisons, backstab or find weakness

[copper fiber]

i didnt say i wanted them back

[lilac stag]

there is 100% zero reason to track backstab. The game has changed.

if that’s the complaint going into midnight, gold star blizz

[vale pine]

why is there symbols of death

[hazy breach]

Just like im surprised there are apparently a fuckton of people playing with combo points only showing on nameplates

[vale pine]

oh wait, there are 2 vanishes?

and other things you ask yourself

[lilac stag]

Our classic friends

I sure someone in here has player and target plates in upper left corner next to each other.

[harsh meadow]

Remember when combo points were on the target

[sullen hare]

Mine still are because I'm a curmudgeon

[harsh meadow]

No like not visually

Literally they used to be way back in the day per target

[sullen hare]

Oh yeah I don't miss that garbage

[harsh meadow]

It was awful

[sullen hare]

Classic players can keep that shit

[vale pine]

dark times

[sullen hare]

Not per target, simply wiped from existence if you targeted something else

Man I can't swipe text for shit this morning

[harsh meadow]

I played classic rogue briefly in 2019 re release

And I logged out when I realized

[harsh meadow]

That’s right even worse

[sullen hare]

I've been roguing since 2005 that's one of the things I'd prefer stay in the past

[lilac stag]

Can I have 2005 backstab sound back please

[harsh meadow]

Real

[fathom adder]

fat backstab crits

https://tenor.com/view/millennials-raves-getting-old-jon-hamm-turn-the-lights-off-gif-16691929375204256219

[left ledge]

Classic target swap was aids

TBC at least lets you keep your combo points when you swap targets so long as you don’t build on the diff target

[lilac stag]

@left ledge are you playing rogue s1?

[left ledge]

I’m always playing rogue

[real belfry]

How are people feeling about Sub going into Midnight?

I last played in S1 of TWW and really enjoyed the complexity. Seems they absolutely gutted the spec down to only a few buttons...

Is there still some level of skill expression to be had here?

I think i'll still continue to main sub as I have every expansion, but man does it feel gutted.

[lilac stag]

I couldn’t remember if you swapped off

[left ledge]

I’m a token rogue my guild will not let me swap

Nobody else trusts the class

[lilac stag]

It’s still sub. It’s fine. Like every other class in the game it needs some more iteration likely for s2. Just don’t look at our hero talents.

[left ledge]

Skill expression hasn’t existed for sub for a while tbh but no there is very little to express for every spec in the game. I’m sure the spec will be fun so long as the content itself is entertaining and rewarding

[lilac stag]

The people swapping to rogue I don’t expect to stay

[real belfry]

When I say skill expression I guess i'm talking more about knowing when to pool and how to align cd's for damage windows. I remember the variance for Sub at the time was super wide simply for how well you aligned your cd's and executed them in specific encounters.

It now seems like your sticking to roughly the same general rotation of 1 SD per ST, 2 per SB and it repeats the entire fight.

[lilac stag]

You still have to know to line up CDs and when to send them in fights

Unless you go back to dust, our cd cadence has been 2-1-1-2 for a bit

[left ledge]

I mean honestly the way you play sub will not change much

It is just simpler

Less buttons

[lilac stag]

People just got mentally confused by krangled CDs

[real belfry]

Maybe I just miss pressing symbols outside of dance lol

[left ledge]

I don’t

[lilac stag]

you shouldn’t

outside of dance is pointless

now you’re in dance quicker, which should make most people happier

[left ledge]

Only thing I think maybe we lose out on in terms of “skill expression” is timing flag to get the most out of it when it fully ramps

But with double coup even that was kinda eh

[real belfry]

Oh for sure, more so just in open world content. Need a little extra energy for backstab to finish a mob. Was nice to have an energy button.

Just that little extra that made playing a rogue in WoW feel a little more involved.

[left ledge]

You built it in like 2 finishers

[left ledge]

You will have a LOT of energy and combo points with midnight sub

Especially since haste is favored

[real belfry]

I havn't even looked at the apex talents yet

[hazy breach]

Well in open world content youll get 2x as many dances now as before

[plush roost]

I took the haste buff in algethar and thought to myself, how broken is sub gonna be in s2 of midnight????

[lilac stag]

and open world aoe murder bots isn’t exactly a known rogue specialty

[real belfry]

THis is what i need to get used to. Just pressing dance.

[hazy breach]

Because the cd is 20s instead of 60 with cdr, (which often ended up at like 45-50 in open world content, and even in raids it was like 25)

[left ledge]

Not broken enough, think we need some more bp buffs ngl

[lilac stag]

Stay off of PTr and we’ll find out

[hazy breach]

Probably the opposite ngl, more eviscerate buffs

[plush roost]

Bro i was rockin 24% haste and had double sec tec in sblades, infinity apex resets holy samole

[left ledge]

[graceful osprey]

I think what we have now is a good baseline. Add new animations and maybe a new ability or two would be cool.

[left ledge]

Yeah that sounds kinda cracked

Especially in academy

[real belfry]

I miss rupture in PvP

[left ledge]

Can’t wait to bp tree area again

[plush roost]

Best i can do is spin in a circle and throw my arms out on repeat sry

Ss bp gaming

[hazy breach]

Theres a embellishment dagger that applies a near constant bleed

[left ledge]

If only DN worked on BP

SIGH

[real belfry]

Thank god

[hazy breach]

Its worth pressing DN now though

Even in algethar

[left ledge]

Yeah I know

[hazy breach]

You would use DN

[vestal escarp]

marks a random target

[plush roost]

That does like really good st damage btw

[fathom adder]

i quite like the changes

[plush roost]

Wonder if thats day 1 craft

[hazy breach]

They fixed that with unseen blade btw

[left ledge]

Just kinda wish they integrated bp into it but I’m fine with DN at least being worth pressing

[hazy breach]

Yeah ik

[fathom adder]

gloodblade, lingering and bite tuning/changes and i am happy

[vestal escarp]

How so?

[left ledge]

“Bite”

Oh hell no

[hazy breach]

Unseen blade from storm isnt random anymore

Its your target

[left ledge]

Goremaw is a stain upon our existence

[hazy breach]

(assuming the target is in range)

[fathom adder]

thats true

[hazy breach]

Otherwise it seems random

[vestal escarp]

So it's still janky

[left ledge]

How is trickster shaping up anyways

[hazy breach]

Well no

Just be in range

Since storm has longer range you shouldnt ever have that be an issue

[graceful osprey]

Gloomblade should be baseline tbh

[left ledge]

It should

[lilac stag]

and have 2005 backstab sound

[hazy breach]

Better than deathstalker

[left ledge]

Oh damn really

Good news

[hazy breach]

Yes by a lot

The only thing deathstalker does better is prio

[vestal escarp]

Muh funnel

[left ledge]

DS back to being dead for another expansion

[hazy breach]

But like, are you willing to give up 20% overall for 10% more prio and lower ST?

[vestal escarp]

[lilac stag]

keep the dead dead

[hazy breach]

Probably not

[left ledge]

Maybe on a specific encounter that highly depends on prio

[vestal escarp]

So ds is behind even in ST?

[left ledge]

But can’t see it being a general case

[hazy breach]

Didnt happen in tww

So i dont expect it to happen now either

[left ledge]

Ye prob not

[hazy breach]

Like deathstalker has had better prio all this time

[left ledge]

Well the gap is even smaller now no?

It was bigger than just 10% in TWW I thought

Or well you did have to completely sac aoe lmao

[lilac stag]

You used your ST rotation as tricky so

all the prio

[graceful rock]

when looking at my cast timeline, is there a way I can see shadow dance uptime as well?

like have this but also the casts on there

[haughty mural]

https://tenor.com/view/game-of-thrones-euron-greyjoy-gif-13536151

[vale pine]

my suggestion still stands

give every spec the hero talent that worked best for them

subtlety - trickster

outlaw - fatebound

assassiantion - deathstalker

even tho deathstalker is still annoying on assassination

[tender dust]

This is criminal. DS sucks more for assa then it does for sub imo

[sullen hare]

It sucks pretty bad for sub man idk

[vale pine]

assassiantion was the most popular m+ spec while deathstalker was best

so idk

[tender dust]

Well it just sucks overall. but once applied, we can't even move it. and it also also on a 5 second garrote timer.

[tender dust]

Assasination DS was best because fatebound had a negative impact on aoe.

[hazy breach]

You cant move it as sub either

[vale pine]

^

[hazy breach]

Garrote is on a 6 second cd, dance is on a 20 second cd. But that doesnt really matter now anyway since if you have a mark up you cant move

[vale pine]

every change to it, which mostly seemed to be aimed to make it better on assasisantion

made it worse on subtlety

its just that the last set of changes also made it worse on assassiantion

[hazy breach]

During tww beta you could enter every dance with DN up and get 2 uses out of DN during dance

[vale pine]

yep

[hazy breach]

Then they bugfixes echoing reprimand for assa and for some reason that introduced the "cant reduce mark below 3 when DN is up" bug

Which has now been added as baseline functionality

[tender dust]

I mean we can all agree that DS sucks for both specs sure. but saying DS was more popular in m+ is not a good arguement to me.

[vale pine]

well, there are 2 competing specs

if an annoyence is high, people usually pick a diffrent spec

[tender dust]

On fatebound last season you did less damage with more then 4 targets close to each other.

[vale pine]

unless blizz made some rly bad tuning decisions

so either assassiantion was op

or it was not a problem

[lilac stag]

DS was insane funnel with caustic. Hardly sucked on assa more tha sub.

spider egg boss s1 LOL

[tender dust]

If we had FB how it is now nobody would have played DS. but because FB had anti aoe in there kit, you couldnt play FB.

so you were forced into DS

So it kinda doesnt matter if DS was OP or not.

[lilac stag]

you’re in the wrong channel for assa sympathy.

[tender dust]

Im not looking for assa sympathy 😄

[lilac stag]

giving assa 90 seconds was wrong.

pay for those sins

[vale pine]

i think assassiantion just plays fateboud now

[tender dust]

We were 90s? my cooldowns were so bugged on every boss, we were a 1 minut spec

[vale pine]

blizz removed most differenciating factors

[tender dust]

Right now yes. but thats also my point, they got rid of the anti aoe part. and now it's good.

[vale pine]

there was seemingly an way to reliably bug things out

assassiantion was quite good in the statistic and had many "bug "logs, so the bugs ended up mostly positive

not saying bugs don't suck

[tender dust]

Here this is from 11.2.5 people played fatebound on hunters because DS sucks so much, while DS was damage wise way better.

Taking less damage but a better playstyle speaks volumes to me.

[vale pine]

does not make a lot of sense to me

players are driven by numbers

if ds would reliably outdo fatebound, you would see the top 10 parses on DS

yet, if you look at it

its a mix of both

[lilac stag]

hunters just was bad as melee. Timings sucked as sub. Manage mark as assa. Outlaw could zip zooom around and fury was fun on it.

[vale pine]

fatebound was just noticable enough ahead on st, to cba switching

[tender dust]

It's a mix because 1. DS sucks on that fight. because you have to juggle your mark around to multiple targets. and if your good at that you play DS. if you suck at doing your mark. you play fatebound. and it can still be quite good.

[vale pine]

statistics don't lie

if something is as noticable ahead

you would see more played in the higher ranks

[lilac stag]

Sounds like a skill issue.

[vale pine]

you saw this on subtlety a lot

[tender dust]

This is the start of the tier

You see my point

Once people were aware mark juggling was so bad on that boss you would just swap to fatebound.

DS was def more damage.

[vale pine]

then why does this not show in logs

[lilac stag]

Hunter on sub your high parse was struck to kill time since everything came back up right as the boss was going immune or dead immediately after it

[manic swift]

@vale pine any idea why the nerfed sub dmg on the beta by 8% i mean, mage buffed again

[lilac stag]

Do I ping Charrend again?

[vale pine]

the boring answer, they bugfixed some things and then nerfed it to keep it in check

[hazy breach]

Sub was doing good damage

So they lowered the numbers

[tender dust]

Because people prefer or 1 doing more damage on DS. or two because mark juggling sucks so much. you can perform better on fatebound because you dont have to deal with mark. it's like saying. i'm better at assa then at sub. because i played assa more.

[vale pine]

so we did good damage, its hard to compare because others did more

[manic swift]

ahh ty for the answer appreciated !

[vale pine]

then its not better^^

if the best players can't make it work

then you can't argue for deathstalker to be noticable better

[tepid trellis]

ds was better dmg wise, just not to a far enough extent for it to be worth the headache of playing it on the fight

[vale pine]

^

[tender dust]

This.

Raw output it was better. but people opted to fatebound because its less of a hassle

I just want them to remove deathstalker

[lilac stag]

Or you just sat the rogue.

[tender dust]

garbage dogshit ass hero talent

[vale pine]

exactly

"the diffrence was not enough"

thats not a noticable diffrence

because if it is, you would "suck it up"

and play it

[tender dust]

If you would tell me, 2 hero talents, one is less damage in aoe but dont have mark. but one is more damage but has a annoying mark. most people would still pick mark. because of the dopamine of doing more damage.

People nowadays want to play whats best. and don't pick something lesser. atleast that how im thinking about it

[vale pine]

alright, ill repeat myself again

[tender dust]

you dont have to repeat yourself

Even if its not a noticable difference people would still opt for the most damage one. because of ego imo

[vale pine]

exactly

[tender dust]

and thats my opinion on it

[vale pine]

thats my point

if its better, people would play it

only few played it, so it wasn't rly better

[red flame]

[vale pine]

or not to the degree to make a noticable change

you saw this on subtlety too

we had fights certain talent combos ended up better by quite a bit (e.g. shuriken tornado)

but annoying to play

and if that was the case, even tho it was annoying to play

and even tho many did cba

the top logs all played it

i am with you, ds is flawed by design and possibly should be reworked or removed

[lilac stag]

rogues don’t enjoy friction
rogue dev enjoys friction
You decide your future going into a new expansion.

[vale pine]

haha

[lilac stag]

You’ve got 2.5 weeks

https://tenor.com/view/hitmans-bodyguard-hitmans-bodyguard-gi-fs-samuel-l-jackson-time-tick-tock-gif-8352665

[red flame]

I don’t get why they don’t make it so that any max CP finisher against a target w/o a mark, swaps the mark to that target
Seems like common sene to me

[vale pine]

subtlety could just switch it with strike

[tepid trellis]

it just shouldnt be on the target at all

[vale pine]

which solved it

[tepid trellis]

its outdated af

[red flame]

Or that yes

[lilac stag]

because it’s supposed to have some permanence being a marked target.

[vale pine]

^ its because of fantasy

[red flame]

Well yes but it’s impossible by design with stuff like M+ in mind

[vale pine]

the vision behind the spell is "you focus on killing this target"

[red flame]

How do you hard tunnel 1 target in M+

[earnest rune]

It's like some dev said "what if we could put combo points back on the target, but with some other critical ability that they have to track?"

[vale pine]

which does not work with "you focus on killing this target, but everoyne is this target"

[lilac stag]

why do you need to swap targets?

[tepid trellis]

choosing aesthetics over fun 10/10 choice

[lilac stag]

like any of the rogue hero talents had more than one brainstorming session of bad

[wheat sentinel]

Anyone else still pressing their rupture bind

[lilac stag]

arguably the best thing we had (raid parrry) was removed.

Everything else is shit

[vale pine]

we had aoe kidney

[lilac stag]

for 5 days?

[vale pine]

like a week ye

[red flame]

This sounds magical

[chrome palm]

mark doesnt even play well with secret technique just remove that shit from the game

[lilac stag]

we had group CDR on outlaw

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-delete-gif-7852539

[wheat sentinel]

But guys people who dont play rogue like the changes smile

[opal basalt]

i do like fatebound

[vale pine]

think one of the standout discussions for subtlety is always "why is there no bp on it"

cttc, dn

i don't think its friction as a argument

[lilac stag]

Flippy floppy coins is such a good rogue skill that you don’t play around at all. I’m sorry what do you like about it?

[vale pine]

fatebound alwys had low gameplay impact

[opal basalt]

thats the thing

idm low gameplay impact

[vale pine]

the big ironie with hero talents is

if they have no gameplay impact

why have them?

[opal basalt]

i actually prefer it over something annoying like mark

[sullen hare]

I agree

[lilac stag]

Hero talents that don’t do anything are pointless

[opal basalt]

because blizzard needed to make evergreen systems instead of borrowed power

[vale pine]

i don't know

lets discuss this when we see the talent trees pruned

because of too much choice

[plush roost]

[vale pine]

even tho, most talents are already changed into passive non-gameplay-impacting things

[wheat sentinel]

https://youtu.be/3lKbXmhCPtU?si=0_R6Evr5xpjZK4RU

Time is a flat circle

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/fishing-swallog-prey-bye-gif-11429031

@plush roost you know it’s out of love.

[vale pine]

bad representation ^^

legion had dfa, which was more engaging than wod

and remove the ring, soul cap etc

and the first, edited clip, suddenly becomes very similar to the 2nd

[lilac stag]

Soulcap was fun. WoD sub would be unplayable in keys

[vale pine]

i mean

[wheat sentinel]

That is actually a perfect representation for when it was made in legion beta

[opal basalt]

i wonder if they're gonna do wod classic

[vale pine]

everything only worked because of items

and wod end would remove all of them

you had a trinke that buffed ambush by like 300%

then you had soul cap + malus

then you had tier set, which basically gave you an additional damage amp after using vanish

remove all of this

[wheat sentinel]

Remove all of that and its still a shittier mop sub. Ill take that over this.

[opal basalt]

using vanish in combat? what kind of crackshot wizardry is that

[vale pine]

its boring spec with one cooldown every minute

[wheat sentinel]

Ret has more buttons than us now fuu

[vale pine]

legion had dfa

[wheat sentinel]

Idg how this is fun

[vale pine]

with ~25 sec burst cycles

a good animation

meaningful gameplay decisions

i prefere that

[opal basalt]

meaningful gameplay decisions too hard for midnight gameplay goal

[vale pine]

they rly are

many decisions moved to talents

and gear

which is just the new norm for gameplay design

[wheat sentinel]

Imagine having any agency as a player

[vale pine]

fun is subjective

[wheat sentinel]

Thats toxic

[vale pine]

everyone has fun diffrently

i mean you still have the agency

w/e how much they simplify things

[wheat sentinel]

My love for rogue came from a lot of the on the fly stuff, idk.

[lilac stag]

ret has more buttons, yet still more mindless and easier to play than sub.

[vale pine]

you still need to:

• stay in melee to do auto attack damage
• need to sometimes delay cooldowns for adds/downtime, even if you only have 1 cooldown

[wheat sentinel]

Thats every class though.

[vale pine]

blizz just simplifies one vector of gamepay design to an extreme

looking at bosses, maybe 2

[lilac stag]

Every class has high impact 20 second CDs?

[wheat sentinel]

I think the rogue dev just sucks tbh

[lilac stag]

Shit I’m rerolling

[wheat sentinel]

No buffs for outlaw for all of s3 and now this. Look at lock meanwhile

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/grass-mower-mowing-gif-26074145

[wheat sentinel]

Its like they weren't even pruned, which is good for them.

But why butcher rogue so hard

[vale pine]

i rly don't thinnk its rogue specific

[opal basalt]

let people be sad scath

[wheat sentinel]

No no no, it isnt

[vale pine]

midnight is a massive shift in design philosophy

[lilac stag]

butchered it hilarious

[wheat sentinel]

But we got the worst of the directive.

Easily.

[vale pine]

it might be fun

it might not be

we will see how things are after the honeymoon phase is over

[opal basalt]

it's why i'm deciding to give midnight a chance in s1

[wheat sentinel]

Can we skip to the divorce

[opal basalt]

if it doesn't turn out fun i might just swap over to tbc

[lilac stag]

Rogue at its core going into 12:
Assa still assa
Sub still sub
Outlaw still outlaw
Please Realz do better

[wheat sentinel]

Assa is the only one even vaguely the same

[vale pine]

the new outlaw looks fun

idk

[opal basalt]

new outlaw is incredibly fun to me

[lilac stag]

You’re blind or haven’t played retail in the past 3-4 years

[vale pine]

its still outlaw, and i like sub more

[hazy breach]

Idk sub is still sub

[vale pine]

but specs are now easy enough to switch

sub is fundermentally still sub, it has dance as its core cooldown

[lilac stag]

we were due for a meltdown. Of course it’s during maintenance.

[wheat sentinel]

Wat

[vale pine]

na patch day

[strange harness]

What is better to get dimensius ring or trinket

[vale pine]

beta testing unlocked

[lilac stag]

For what?

[strange harness]

overall

[lilac stag]

Sky’s for leveling. Ring does shit all

[wheat sentinel]

Wrists for the mog.

Yes.

[strange harness]

Okey thx

[hazy breach]

My main complaint about midnight sub is sectech having hasted CD

It makes short term haste buffs feel really strange/bad

[haughty mural]

Not long till wod classic for you

Just wait it out

I’ll enjoy „butchered“ sub in the meantime

[radiant swift]

did that get changed again? i tought stec is now a fixed cd?

[hazy breach]

Nop

[radiant swift]

and only dance is being lengtened

[hazy breach]

Been hasted all the time since prepatch

[radiant swift]

makes sense now that i think about it - thats why u get 2 in lust

but its so minor

is it more more in midnight then?

[onyx flame]

I just want combat back without beeing a cringe pirate.

[wheat sentinel]

Anyone who plays that should be locked up

I dont think they want to do wod though

[opal basalt]

that sounds like pure nostalgia to me

[graceful osprey]

I still prefer combat rather than outlaw. I imagine combat to be like assassins creed

[upbeat smelt]

Yeah and now feels like there's such a big emphasis on the pistol, its like a different class.

[opal basalt]

theres nothing pirate themed about outlaw imo

just a more modern and aggressive thief

you got a pistol, but still use swords mainly

[sullen hare]

Man with gun

[haughty mural]

I was just toying with you

[jolly sleet]

the tumbleweed on BtE honestly throws me off so much

[fathom adder]

i mostly prefer outlaw above bandits guile and revealing strike, ps procs are cool.

[opal basalt]

i have not actually seen that a single time in game yet

[wheat sentinel]

I know lol

[wheat sentinel]

Bandits guile was so lame.

Give me df s3 outlaw with greed procs and I'm happy.

[void ocean]

evening kings

[chrome palm]

What even was combat

Just don’t take ace

Boom you’re playing combat

[harsh meadow]

combat was sinister strike and blade flurry… and that was it

eviscerate at one point too

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/rogue-warcraft-wow-gif-11008475980691198481

[sturdy shoal]

what is everyone rocking in beta build wise?

for sub?

[harsh meadow]

But like in wrath you def didn’t press Evis just rupture and SS

[lilac stag]

#subtlety-faq

[hazy breach]

Same as prepatch really, just not deathstalker

[sturdy shoal]

whats wrong with DS in beta?

[hazy breach]

Same thing as always

[sturdy shoal]

im new to rogue lol

[hazy breach]

But numerically its just not great either

You apply a mark to an enemy

That does extra damage

And you cant move it easily

[sturdy shoal]

ah so prob better in signle target then?

[hazy breach]

No

Its bad everywhere numerically, and it feels bad to play in aoe (doesnt feel good in ST either)

People didnt play it in tww, and they doubled down and made the issues worse, so probably not playing it in midnight either

[opal basalt]

kinda sad because the name fits very well with subtlety

[hazy breach]

Thematically its great

[sturdy shoal]

it does lol damn i want to test it out though to

[lilac stag]

Nothing is preventing you from testing it

That’s what beta is for

[uneven scarab]

^^

[stoic pawn]

Loved legion dfa subtlety

[sturdy shoal]

so mast verse are our stats?

[gilded lodge]

#subtlety-faq

[sturdy shoal]

im legit just trying to find like a good break down of percent so 15% haste then mast higher than verse

[gilded lodge]

Doesn’t matter at the moment and when the new season comes out you would sim.

[sturdy shoal]

im on beta fooling around

[sullen hare]

that's the gist of it yeah

the wowhead guide has pretty graphs too

hmm I lied looks like the pretty graphs are gone

nah they're there just for prepatch stats

[leaden plover]

sub went from lil fun to no fun

[harsh gale]

Love it

[floral geyser]

doesnt the apex talent make sub more special to play

like gotta track that

and wait for it to stack for sdance

[sullen hare]

Not really it's just gonna be sit at full CPs for a few secs while everything lines up

[sturdy shoal]

so what exactly are we waiting to line up?

[tepid trellis]

dance+sectech

[floral geyser]

that actually sounds boring

[tepid trellis]

so what you could do is sit at max cp a few seconds before they are both up to bank up some ShT stacks

[floral geyser]

how good is our aoe in m+ in beta

[tepid trellis]

good enough for them to slap us with an 8% aura nerf

[sturdy shoal]

its decent

[desert rover]

its so boring, mind numbing literally 2 button spec now

[pallid jackal]

Does anyone know how to delete this? I mean the profile picture, the entire thing

Sorry for the zoom-in, looks a bit weird

[lilac stag]

Ooh almost to our 2 button spec quota for the day. LFG!

[radiant swift]

you can always just not play it

[cursive vapor]

all good buddy aint no ones forcing you 👌

[desert rover]

yea I remember when applying for mythic guilds half of them wanted to force me

[jolly sleet]

you mean hiding your player frame ? Mouseover action settings can do that, it hides parts of the UI unless on mouseover (its highly tweakable)

[pallid jackal]

How does that work exactly? Thank you for the response

[jolly sleet]

making a screenshot for you, i'm using it for the same thing

[pallid jackal]

Okay!

[jolly sleet]

big red circles on the settings ur looking for

[pallid jackal]

And have you also managed to trick item buffs by chance? Like of netherprism etc.

And doesn't it then appear when you hover over it?

[jolly sleet]

it doesnt because the mouseover alpha is at 0 too

there i tell "when mouse is not on the frame, hide it, and if it is on the frame hide it too"

[pallid jackal]

aha perfect! Thanks a lot!

My game is buggy as hell, keep getting these errors when I attack a target dummy

So is that an addon you are using?

[jolly sleet]

lets go in DM if you will, imma help you sort it out

[pallid jackal]

Okay!

[summer lynx]

So was the talent change supposed to be a thing?

[hazy breach]

Ye

The question is no why was it applied now, the question is why wasnt it applied at the start of the prepatch

[summer lynx]

Fair

[sturdy shoal]

no buffs this is what my stats are good for sub?

[grim vessel]

Low on int

[lilac stag]

I love when new rogues come in here worrying about stats. It’s so darn cute.

Get ~684 haste. YOLO the rest

[floral geyser]

Damn who rerolls roguein 2026

[swift tinsel]

they're on beta

stats are w/e

[lilac stag]

Apparently paladins. This is our 3rd or 4th.

[lilac stag]

You know they’re not going to listen to that.

[austere spear]

whats the new rogue tree look like for prepatch with talent changes?

[nova bear]

Ooof, sub feels worse. Let's hope next round of changes fixes things lol

[narrow shadow]

I cannot see why someone would play rogue for the first time in 2026

Must feel so bad

[summer lynx]

Do we have any UIs sitting around that people are sharing?

[hazy breach]

Dont take cold blood

Simple as that

[lilac stag]

Goto #outlaw and !ui

[austere spear]

gotcha ty

[lilac stag]

don’t think fuu put the command here yet. Luxthos also has full ui’s on his site

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[celest wyvern]

How we manage darkest night with new talent changes?

[hollow spear]

We manage it by playing trickster

[warm depot]

[celest wyvern]

[shrewd lantern]

What do you even take in its place

[hazy breach]

You have less points

[plush roost]

I think he means there isnt enough points for cb fi and deeper

[hazy breach]

So nothing

[shrewd lantern]

oh right

[sand flax]

who has the new sub m+ build boys

or is sub dead

[hazy breach]

Not sure what you mean by new

Guides have the talents

[sand flax]

didnt they nerf/buff some parts of trickster/deathstalker?

[lilac stag]

mind reading skills lacking today eleem smh

[sand flax]

i saw latest change in faq from 6 days agio

[exotic holly]

i know sub got a 8% nerf across the board

[shrewd lantern]

aura nerfs change nothing

besides number lower

[exotic holly]

^

[sand flax]

so deathstalker and trickster are still about the same?

for m+

[warm marlin]

deathstalker 🤢 trickster

and no ds is terrible

bad bad

[hazy breach]

Iirc its fine in prepatch because trickster cant get all of its dps talents

Whereas deathstalker can

[sand flax]

oh yeah guess i should specify for prepatch

not beta

[hazy breach]

But why bother, just play trickster anyway

[warm marlin]

yes yes i always assume beta

[lilac stag]

if you want to play rogue, specifically sub on pre-patch, just fkn play it. nothing actually matters for prepatch.

[shrewd lantern]

gotta get that prepatch io

[sand flax]

agreed, i just literally want to know which talents to copy paste in

and not look again until it matters

[lilac stag]

The same we’ve been playing

Drop CB as eleem stated

wowhead & icy should both be updated as well

[sand flax]

wowhead has CB 🙁

fuggit ill just use that one

and change it

[hazy breach]

Well if you are EU they havent changed the class tree yet

But you can only get 2 out of cb/forced induction/deeper stratagem after tomorrow

[sand flax]

yee im Us

so im looking at that noiw

so its deeper and induction?

and 1 into lethality?

[hazy breach]

yes

[sand flax]

sweet

thanks dog

[vale pine]

like this it seems

[exotic holly]

^ pin it

[misty condor]

cold blood has fallen, billions must forcefully induct

[hazy breach]

Fwiw cold blood pretty inconsequential in ST, and not that strong in aoe

[spice matrix]

ive fallen to my knees in a walmart

I'll never be stimmed by the coldblood sound again

[lilac stag]

Clean under the shelves please

[patent lichen]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[quiet lagoon]

What did they do to our talents ;-;

[hazy breach]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923898501529600/1470909642472292601/image.png?ex=698d02da&is=698bb15a&hm=4d3d437fcb8c7a4fe7b52aa6c0bd8d311e40613893dfe8d03a58e58227489473&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=238&height=142

[lilac stag]

Can you just make this !prepatch

[quiet lagoon]

No i got that part but what did they change to make it this way

[lilac stag]

For leveling in beta

[quiet lagoon]

also is that ST or M+ or both

[hazy breach]

Requires 3 more points in the upper sections

Both

[quiet lagoon]

tragic, goodbye 50 energy in keys

[scenic timber]

for pve, why wouldnt you guys go down to tea, if your not gonna take advantage of the 40% chd,
i assume you guys need more sustain than burst and tea gives that, especially if your not getting energy back from deathmarks

[hazy breach]

50 energy or 10% crit to all finishers

[lilac stag]

Bigger tragedy is running keys on prepatch.

[hazy breach]

Tea does literally nothing

[lilac stag]

Tea is negative dps

We don’t need energy during dance.

[hazy breach]

10% crit from CB, more finisher damage from forced induction and supercharger and more finisher damage from deeper stratagem is worth so much more

[lilac stag]

We do our dmg during dance

[scenic timber]

no i agree that cold blood has more dmg. but in that screenshot, you dont have cold blood

[lilac stag]

you can’t take it in prepatch

[hazy breach]

Well you only have 8 points

[lilac stag]

I hate prepatch

[hazy breach]

Cant get all of em

[scenic timber]

im confused, im running double vanish, 7th combo, and forced induction, and the double vanish line requires more points. ????

[hazy breach]

Are you on eu

[lilac stag]

You’re not N.A. then

Have fun tomorrow

Running your layout

[leaden thunder]

How far behind is Trickster right now?

[lilac stag]

The pins literally explain it

[scenic timber]

is this change across all classes?

[hazy breach]

Yes

(except mages for some reason , but theyll fix that soon enough)

[lilac stag]

hero class

[short radish]

fuck mages

[harsh gale]

is sub still looking like the play for st raid or has other specs caught up

[hearty zealot]

Is anyone else having problems with stealth? My rogue keeps coming out of stealth on its own, even in the city.

[hazy breach]

Unequip your intellect dagger

[hazy breach]

^

[steel zinc]

I thought you need intelligence

[tribal herald]

guys, do we know why Blind stills aoe? is just a bug and they will remove? or its tooltip error and we are gonna keep it?.

[hazy breach]

It still is for the time being if you have airborne irritant specced

When/if theyre fixing that who knows

[tribal herald]

But giving the new tooltip, I guess their idea is to remove it sadly, no?

[humble tartan]

Airborne Irritant reduces effect and CD by 80%, it's still 1 starget

[hazy breach]

You would think so if you read the tooltip yes

[hazy breach]

Presumably

[tribal herald]

sadge

[humble tartan]

These class tree changes feel like ass

[warm marlin]

im honestly surprised there are this many people playing prepatch to even notice it

[humble tartan]

Some of us really enjoy the game 😛

[shell willow]

Sales

[warm marlin]

did prices not tank with prepatch

our cuts were already crap in december

[warm marlin]

i more meant beta is a lot more fun to me

prepatch event seems boring and content is mega easy, classes are more complete with apex

[torn tide]

wait wtf?

[lilac stag]

It’s AoE on prepatch

[hazy breach]

Wdym

[torn tide]

i might just be tired but wym not all its talents

is it the pinned message

[hazy breach]

No

You only have 10 hero talents

And theres 13 nodes

[torn tide]

oh oops

thanks

[torn tide]

do u think theyll change that to make it so we can actually get all of them

[hazy breach]

You can get 3 rows at the bottom

You just need to level up

Or do you mean ALL of them?

No

[torn tide]

yeaa i meant this

[hazy breach]

If you get all of them theres no choice, which makes all of it kinda redundant

[lilac stag]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[torn tide]

lmao yea thats true

[graceful rock]

thoughts?

[lilac stag]

Scroll up 10 messages?

[bleak night]

do i count the moroes message as one or no

[lilac stag]

Only if it helps

[graceful rock]

my post was more about the bugs of being 711 talent points in debt

[lilac stag]

Disable Elvui?

[graceful rock]

dont have it

[lilac stag]

that’s 99% of interface issues

[graceful rock]

when i try to right click the talent it just adds more

[lilac stag]

reload change talents

idk

[graceful rock]

yeah

[lilac stag]

Don’t play on patch day

[bleak night]

160 points of supercharger

[graceful rock]

I wanna see how high i can go

[bleak night]

holy moly

[graceful rock]

yeah the little undo button fixed it

[lilac stag]

hah trickster simming higher in 1:30 sims. Get fucked DS

[plush roost]

Ive lost 8% and 2 talent points

My prepatch parse is ruined!!!!1!1

[short radish]

i still bricked a +12 last night 🙂

[lilac stag]

tbf you played a role in this

[slate marlin]

what role lol

he perma lost overall to demo

like all other specs tho

[lilac stag]

nah

He was pumping. Our Chinese outlaw friend was cooking even harder

We’ll get buffed in 12 weeks. No worries.

[plush roost]

Scaths one goal is to turn me into sub rogue Ion ...

Its all my fault

[chrome palm]

nah hes right

casual had kira posting youtube videos titled "sub needs a buff"

meanwhile this guy is theorycrafting 2 minute sub just to get us nerfed 💀

[bleak night]

[chrome palm]

this is just part of charrends master plan for outlaw to be the choice spec for rogue and honestly im rooting for him

[lilac stag]

Casual understood the

[lilac stag]

Team China gonna screw up they plan

[chrome palm]

yeah i mean

[lilac stag]

also for funsies read wowhead guide for DF Season 3 outlaw tuning.

[chrome palm]

outlaw was able to do 90% of warlock damage with brew tank so they had to hit them with the -15%

they were good like 6 years ago tho

[warm marlin]

[slate marlin]

link pls

[lilac stag]

google.itursrlf

[slate marlin]

link doesnt work

[lilac stag]

Oh well

[short radish]

out dps'd the ret paladin as tank

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/jinx-lol-arcane-absolute-cinema-absolutecinema-gif-2823717891940156292

The optimism for outlaw tuning back then.

[short radish]

mage also held lust for 8 mnutes

and then i also fucked up count and had to go back, but no one talked to the guy to go back up even though i told them to

then mage also held lust for the next key in the last 20 seconds

[sage lake]

So, are we taking Forced Induction now? or is this article incorrect? https://www.wowhead.com/news/best-talent-builds-for-all-classes-for-midnight-pre-patch-12-0-1-raid-mythic-and-380332

[warm marlin]

i did a 12 for a friend's portals about a month ago and one of our pugs deployed the lust for the first time in the key at 26mins in

on the last boss of the dawnbreaker!

gotta make sure to have it up for that big burn phase ofc

[hazy breach]

Were always taking forced induction

Thats not new

[short radish]

yeah never ever press cooldowns on trash

[lilac stag]

wdym now…?

[short radish]

theyre trash so you dont need to kill them

[sage lake]

bro am I dumb lol

[hazy breach]

Dont take the cb row

Take forced induction

[lilac stag]

our 6th Ret pally convert

[warm marlin]

it was just an early image showing you couldn't spend all the points anymore

[sage lake]

https://tenor.com/view/mlady-nod-hey-hello-nice-gif-4816603

[lilac stag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1470929830898958389/image.png?ex=698d15a8&is=698bc428&hm=d025653a5deb589f813382a63fb97322a4cb7c74cdf45f1df80c01bacb96dafd&

[sage lake]

Thank you all for the clarification!

[kind river]

weird to cop an 8% nerf but aight, it's pre-patch so I really don't care

I'm only still playing my rogue so we can get dimensius mounts

[lilac stag]

Looks like they fixed artifact transmog

[kind river]

before the xpac hits

I wonder if dragons and DH's caught the same smoke or if they are still gonna light my damage meters on fire though

[short radish]

0 chance devourer isn't going to be busted at teh start of the tier

[lilac stag]

0 chance subtlety will be busted dmg wise at teh start of the tier

ability wise there’s still hope.

[short radish]

nono

there's a chance it'll be busted at the start of the tier

0 chance sub will allowed to remain busted at the start of the tier*

[hazy breach]

If mini bursts like our dance is needed to kill adds or whatever we will be good

If not then oh well

GG go next

[lilac stag]

I’m waiting for apex sht interaction to get fixed heroic week

[hazy breach]

Can always highroll the tuning and end up doing the most ST in general

[woeful wren]

Are we finally dooming

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[lilac stag]

nah

[hazy breach]

Theres only the "not interacting with shadowcraft" left btw

of the important ones

Coup is still 1.2s as well

[lilac stag]

still time for the wrong version to get sent to distribution

I need to log on beta this week. Been slacking

I’m just at the point whatever we get we get

[hazy breach]

And while dance is still a strong cooldown blades is more of a middling one right now, its not weak by any means but its way weaker than it was in tww

Since its less combo points and without flag less damage amplification in general

[lilac stag]

It’s interesting seeing the spikes be “similar” between dance and blades+dance

[placid coral]

haste is best stat until 35%?

[lilac stag]

Figuring out a way to make blades feel more impactful would have been nice

[swift tinsel]

up the % and make it turn all damage shadow

not too hard

[hazy breach]

I mean its still like a 40% damage buff, its not bad

[lilac stag]

it just doesn’t feel like you’re juiced

at least last season between the two 90s it felt better than dance alone

not the end of the world or anything

[woeful wren]

Ig if they ever fix lingering then it’ll extend our “power” window

[swift tinsel]

eh

not too sure on that one

[chrome palm]

Did they fix talent clones not granting sht?

[vagrant fulcrum]

You counting cp gen or is there something I’m missing

[acoustic ginkgo]

what did they do to my boi sub

[hazy breach]

No but that's very very minor

[chrome palm]

Hmm

[hazy breach]

It's like 32%+death perception

[chrome palm]

Premed bug makes me wanna blow my head off ngl

[hazy breach]

Why

[chrome palm]

Makes blades awkward

[hazy breach]

The second dance?

[chrome palm]

Yes and also

Being able to proc apex before dance might be nice

[humble jolt]

is it 2 lethality or not? wowhead pin says no and pin here says yes.

[hazy breach]

Fwiw it seems like it kinda doesn't matter if you cancel apex on sectech anymore

I know premed prevents it most of the time

[humble jolt]

ty!

[hazy breach]

But even if it doesn't it's kinda fine, mostly just neutral

[cold sequoia]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[winter moon]

why do my sims want me to use all the same socket gems even though my embellishments requires different ones. All of them say to put vers and crit which is fine, but I thought I had to mix match.

[warm marlin]

what embellishment

[lilac stag]

Nullstone I’m guessing

[winter moon]

elemental focus

[warm marlin]

the different gems just give you new damage types, the overall damage is the same

[winter moon]

oh man

i thought it gave you more based on different types

[lilac stag]

The only mismatch needed is for agility + crit/speed gem

And you have to force that in sims

[tough solar]

sub feels weaker today

more than 8% tbh

[summer lynx]

Well losing cold blood as well

and 1 point into lethality

[steel sierra]

Probably closer to what? 11-12 percent overall?

[summer lynx]

Nerfing sub seemed knee jerk AF while UH DK is still out here

[chrome palm]

is uh really the problem

[vagrant fulcrum]

Good shout on death perception, I keep forgetting it changed

[lilac stag]

Real problem is TWW world quests not rewarding gold now

[graceful rock]

guys i did no damage in raid

[lilac stag]

push your buttons

[short radish]

push your buttons harder

8% harder

[winter moon]

is sub still performing the best

[graceful rock]

https://tenor.com/view/ahoklollmao-of-course-ohhhh-oh-that-makes-sense-gif-11896286840118452668

[short radish]

it's definitely performing as one of the rogue specs in world of warcraft

[lilac stag]

patch live for 3 hrs. Is it bis still on irrelevant content?

[peak mountain]

I am tryin gboss

Is there a major difference between Deathstalker and Trickster

[winter moon]

yep, people care up until the patch. I got flak for trying out assassination in a key lol

[lilac stag]

tell em to fuck off

[winter moon]

didn't even put it in, already hatin lol

[lilac stag]

tell them the rogue discord gives zero shits about pre-patch so you’re forced to deal with whatever spec I want to test

[glacial epoch]

Anyone else have AOE blind back for some reason???

[sullen hare]

It's probably just a bug don't worry

Maybe we get to keep the bug. As a treat

[glacial epoch]

it's not in the talents, but I can AOE stop a group on a 24 second CD