subtlety

[plush roost]

Ex and Dee

[graceful rock]

I too would like mystic touch, battle should, and mark

[plush roost]

The loa band and signet ring proc so often i almost never lose a gcd

[lilac stag]

wut about muh target cap

[plush roost]

Blade rush uncapped and also insanely strong hehe

[warm marlin]

dance snapshots right

[plush roost]

Yup

[lilac stag]

lulz

[warm marlin]

when i was looking at the chinese dude you linked his dance start times didn't overlap much with the ring

[scarlet heath]

instant actually doing so much dmg tf

[plush roost]

Ill dig in my own logs but im consistently getting 7 globals

Or 10 if yknow tfd

[warm marlin]

perhaps just simply goated and not dropping any gcds

[plush roost]

Mayhaps the 400 spell queue window is pogging out on our beta experience

[warm marlin]

would rather die than play 400 spell queue

[plush roost]

I used advanced interface options to change it, but the addon didnt work on beta so i just said w.e we ball

[radiant swift]

whats wrong with 400 spell q

are yall playing with lowered ones?

[warm marlin]

some say it's schizo but i would somewhat frequently send incorrect globals on outlaw and in lust on haste specs, something to do with the game breaking once gcd gets very low and your spellqueue is high. i had a couple clips from law of bte getting cast 3-4x in a row when I started pressing something else once the first one sent

[plush roost]

Bingobongo what is the premed bug exactly ik its there but idont actually know the specifics

[warm marlin]

when i lowered my spellqueue to 250 it happened less, even less at 200, went away at 150

[plush roost]

I feel it during ar on beta thats for sure, its especially bad with fan the hammer fucks with the queue window somehow

[radiant swift]

iirc from the explaining from mages back there what you describe here is because of low spell q window

[warm marlin]

you cannot trigger AA 3 while you have premed active, similar to how shadowcraft wouldn't let you refund while premed was active

[plush roost]

Okay thats what i thought was happening

[warm marlin]

for whatever reason mages deeply believe it's not possible

all i can tell you is that lowering my spellqueue fixed it forever

[plush roost]

Ig it allows for sec tec -> storm -> coup refund -> bp

[radiant swift]

what exactly ? ive warched the explaining to it

the reactivnesd from lowered spell q are basicaly inputs u skip

produces gaps for instance on caster classes

[warm marlin]

the issue with sending multiple incorrect globals in a row. the mage community specifically has said that it's due to player error, and that it cannot be helped by lowering spellqueue. my experience does not line up with that

[plush roost]

Depending on your latency and when youre inputting casts if ur queue window is 400, and u input a global at 500 with 150ms that global is what goes through even u push another global between

Its noticable on low gcd specs because theres even less time to correct such as outlaws .8 gcd

[warm marlin]

it's supposed to overwrite when you press a new button, but i swear sometimes with low gcd and maybe a slight ping spike you can queue spells for your NEXT gcd

[tender dust]

Wait charrend can you explain me what you change in the settings? with the spell que? and explain what it does?

[radiant swift]

it is overwritten

[tender dust]

oh wait

it's already explained

[plush roost]

Im almost 100% sure it doesnt overwrite it

Maybe its broken

[warm marlin]

yes it is supposed to be, just that in my experience it can not be overwritten. again it's rare, but with 250 spellqueue id have it happen maybe once every 1-2 keys

[radiant swift]

with lust berserking ud for instance have the maximum lowest gcd possible but it still queues properly

[plush roost]

But ive had so many mashes of strike and then a late coup reset on tww s3 and it just queued strike anyway at 300 queue window

I had to lower all the way to 150

[warm marlin]

i know all the tech people say it's but i swear im not a noob and pressing incorrect gcds 3 times in a row, and it has never happened to me at 150

[radiant swift]

you know what

[plush roost]

Same

[tender dust]

Are people gonna go troll for beserking because haste is quite good in midnight?

[plush roost]

150-200 seems to be the perfect range

[radiant swift]

well i tought so too but for me it fixed it back then

However

[warm marlin]

if you press buttons fast enough you can still play fine, i didn't have issues queueing barrage on arcane with 150

[radiant swift]

yeah no that was nit realy the problem

u would just make gaps and basicaly uptime

[astral axle]

charr bro is your pfp maha ghosananda

[radiant swift]

because the casts arent one after another

[warm marlin]

well ye if you press too slowly to hit inside the 150 window, but just press buttons often enough and you'll queue everything

professional mashing

[radiant swift]

the funny part is now that u mention it

i tought this is a haste thing

but i have random delays when olaying

and sometimes it would just

send anither builder instead of a finisher

isnt this exactly what you are describing?

[warm marlin]

basically ye

[radiant swift]

wait

idk

do u have the commands perhaps and could possible dm me them? i need to try this out

the delay is super annoying

[reef walrus]

berserking doesn't affect shadow dance length, so it's not as good as it looks at first

[radiant swift]

but idk where its coming from

[warm marlin]

/console spellqueuewindow X where X is the ms, but it does have a risk of missing milligcds if you aren't mashing fast enough as I said

[radiant swift]

no im aware of that but

sometimes it just doesnt send anything

might be not perfectly in range possibly

a friend of mine used to say smth similar whenn he played otlw

but it def produced gaps for arcane so idk

[warm marlin]

just gotta be fast in lust (normally i just increase my sqw to 200 when im playing a lot of a caster, but arcane specifically i had issues in soul with triple sending barrage when i was at 200 so I also lowered)

[vale pine]

your subtlety spells look weird

[warm marlin]

i multiclassed ranger for arcane trickster

[limpid sage]

I stg someone just made ts up and now everyone thinks the SQW gets overwritten

[ionic agate]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[ionic agate]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

[tender dust]

Sometimes i have the same thing, when i press a spell, it's like delayed, but it cast after the button i pressed previously would the MS thing fix that for me? i feel like sometimes im pressing my keybinds to fast

[lilac stag]

The old musclebrah experince. Rogue to mage. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPg_h1-iUOS/

musclebrahtv

MIDNIGHT ARCANE MAGE BUSTED ALREADY?! #worldofwarcraft #thewarwithin #mythicplus #warcraft #wow #news #arcane #mage #musclebrah

Likes

8689

Instagram

[magic cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/movies-animation-comedy-ratatouille-rat-gif-3522316

[shrewd lantern]

Social media wow clickbait challenge: Make a caption without the word "insane" or "crazy" or "busted"

[vale pine]

alright i start "HUGE ...."

[magic cliff]

BROKEN SPECS FOR MIDNIGHT MAIN THESE NOW

[shrewd lantern]

wait shit i missed a word

[sullen hare]

You forgot [Tier List Included!!]

[shrewd lantern]

i remember when tier lists just existed to give for fun opinions on things

yet people randomly use them as objective fact

[astral axle]

wasnt there some scottish rogue guy who used to make youtube videos

noxic?

this was in like BFA and SL

Noxious?

[lilac stag]

Infexious. He’s not welcome around here.

pawned off others hard work as his own to promote his channel and shit. Got kinda ugly.

[astral axle]

That's what I remembered ahaha

[radiant swift]

weird but looks perfectly fine

it def gets overwritten but idk why its so diffrent for rogue

what did u lower it to? 150?

[warm marlin]

ye

i cant queue as consistently below 150

too fast for me

[radiant swift]

i should have tested 150 on mage

for some reason i had it on 80 and that did so many gaps

the explaination to "why it feels like shit now" was lower player error inputs

but idk

[warm marlin]

at 80 SQW you need to press like 12-13 times a second to queue well, at 150 you only need to do 6-7

which isnt super fast

[radiant swift]

amount of times dont realy align with what the explaination was to spell q window, which prob is right but it feels so off

can u even check queueing on meele with stuff being instant?

or did u just see if u had full dance coverage

with abilities

[warm marlin]

i had to queue things very tightly in tww3 for full sectec in tfd and such and not dropping gcds with double coup and i could do it consistently

when i looked at my logs i didnt have delays, only very minor ones (like 30ms) at times which could just be wcl jitter

[radiant swift]

how do u see gaps in meele logs? does it look similar to casters?

i rember asking specificaly for otlw once as example, but since outlw had some instant stuff, and the whole multiple shots stuff going on, it was hard to see at all

[magic cliff]

Jitter these

[warm marlin]

sub has a static 1s gcd so you can just look for a 1s gap

*except with coup that has a 1.2s gcd

outlaw is harder because gcd can vary in ar before you have full alacrity stacks, but should be .8 at full alacrity

use events tab instead of timeline

[radiant swift]

i see makes sense

on mage wirh 0.75gcd due to berserk and lust ud see the same stuff to

but like the whole gcd was squished af in the log

its just so weird, that it seemingly doesnt work the same for meele and casters

[lilac stag]

better to compare gcd based specs to gcd based specs

[radiant swift]

i meam theyre both no? or do u mean otlw

[dire ravine]

So, seeing that you want to cast shadow dance twice? but my timer between them is like 6-7 seconds, do i need more haste to bring this down or am I not supposed to be trying to double pump them back to back?

[radiant swift]

what also bugs me the fact, that with high amount of haste i had to press slower otherwhise it would send stuff multiple times

[surreal willow]

hey guys, I need some advice on my charcter stat priority. here is what I’m working with right now

Agility: 552
Crit: 287 (39%)
Haste: 267 (31%)
Mastery: 267 (65%)
Versatility: 172 (14%)

I just ran my sims, and the stat weights came out like this Haste (22.79), Crit (17.83), and Mastery (13.77) at the bottom. I know I've already passed the 30% Haste mark where Diminishing Returns (DR) starts to kick in, but the sim is still heavily favoring Haste and Crit over everything else

most guides say Mastery is huge for Sub, but should I keep following my sim weights and stack Haste/Crit for now, or is it time to ignore the sim and start pivoting back into Mastery? what do you guys think

[spiral sierra]

did he say stat weights?

[hot seal]

Haste has breakpoints. Sim ur gear and the gear you would equip instead.

[tender dust]

You shouldnt use stat weights

use top gear instead

[hot seal]

Yeh

[lilac stag]

Caster to Melee (that’s not rogue)

[lilac stag]

Ask Mr Robot

[spiral sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/reaction-my-eyes-cant-unsee-burn-gif-7225082

what is this sorcery

[wild vine]

my noxxic guide told me to use that

[tender dust]

Bring back reforging

[spiral sierra]

what was that really early wowhead database website before wowhead?

thottbot?

[swift tinsel]

ye

[spiral sierra]

omg the memories

[lilac stag]

Did you update your pawn string?

[swift tinsel]

or reading guides on Elitist Jerks forums

[astral axle]

thot means something different now

[radiant swift]

is it working diffrently even on a gcd basis?

[haughty mural]

Use top gear to sim your items and abandon stat weights. That’s my recommendation.
We won’t do stat weights in here and if you use pawn or smth like that: dont.
Else you should be fine.

[lilac stag]

You can only spellque for the gcd so adjusting it will be different on fixed vs varied

[radiant swift]

can rogue ones not be shortened by more haste?

[hollow spear]

No

Outlaw can, to a degree. Not sure about the current iteration.

[lilac stag]

No. Our gcd is 1.

aR shortens it on outlaw

[radiant swift]

oh shit i didnt know that actualy

that makes sense then why atleast it feels diffrent - are u running a lower spellq too?

[lilac stag]

which is why as sub you had no fucking clue if someone pressed lust and haste was ignored

I think I’m at 155 playing on 5-10ms connection

[surreal willow]

is there any guide or somth for how can I use that? or where I should look after sim?

[tender dust]

type in

how to sim on youtube

[tepid trellis]

its just how energy classes work

[radiant swift]

shit i actualy didnt know - good i caught the convo - def switching laterp

[radiant swift]

makes sense - ty chief

[hazy breach]

The idea behind it is that you are limited by your energy rather than your globals

So your globals are allowed to be a bit shorter

[willow pawn]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

and then wonders what happened to needing energy.

[hazy breach]

Well yeah that decision I just mentioned was made in like 2002

[lilac stag]

I think it was originally a bug that you could use spellhaste to cast less than 1 second apart, and they ended up capping it.

rogues breaking 🍝 game code day 1

[harsh meadow]

Thank god they made that decision

Idk if you’ve ever played a game with a couple seconds GCD but it feels putrid coming from wow

[lilac stag]

base gcd is 1.5 for most specs

[vale pine]

rogue is unique with its 1 sec gcd (all energy classes are)

[hazy breach]

All energy specs have it

[vale pine]

is feral gcd also 1 sec

i don't remember

[harsh meadow]

druids aren’t real people thankfully

[vale pine]

for the rest i know for sure

apperently feral too, you lern new things every day

nice

[summer lynx]

Is there a list to our current bug list some where?

[swift tinsel]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[summer lynx]

Ty!

[plush roost]

You would not believe how shocked i was when i learned this

"Man every class feels like ff14...." xd

[plush roost]

Mayhaps

[cloud sequoia]

Which talent is hitting pvp and pve DS OR trickster

[lilac stag]

#pvp

[long marlin]

are most people simming like 1min30 now if you actually care about parsing in prepatch?

or maybe like 3 mins

[radiant swift]

speaking for otlw that is?

[hazy breach]

No

Energy classes in general

[radiant swift]

what does the part with "globals being shorter" mean - arent they fixed?

[hazy breach]

Shorter than other classes

[radiant swift]

ohhh

that is crazy tho i was under the impression everyone has 1sec

1.5 takes forever no

[hazy breach]

Everything that isnt an energy class has 1.5s scaling with haste

[radiant swift]

do many have enough scalibg for it to be around 1sec?

i know only of arcane that has around 1 and then ocasionaly 0.75

[warm marlin]

most non energy specs take enough haste that it isn't actually 1.5

[radiant swift]

figured

how ass would the gameplay be

[warm marlin]

there are some exceptions at times, havoc for a while played almost 0 haste so outside of meta (in meta you get like 20%) you were sitting a 1.5s gcd

fdk in tww3 was pretty much a flat 1.5 and played no haste

[tepid trellis]

outside of furious gase

[warm marlin]

yes gaze too

more relevant when u didnt play old cycle and were just 40s eyebeam guy

[astral axle]

that's pog

[hazy breach]

Its one of the main reasons why rogues (and other energy specs) have historically disliked haste

[radiant swift]

what is then the whole talk about it feeling ass with low haste?

meaning the whole gcd thing changed or?

[left ledge]

No we just have more haste scaling options like our dance duration

Our global cooldown did not change

[vale pine]

the main driving factor is secret technique cooldown

the baseline is 25 sec cooldown, with dance on 20 sec

which means you have a 5 sec distance, you can bridge with haste

(you don't need it to be exactly 20 secs, as you can use secret later in dance)

(but its a lot easier to play if things line up naturally)

[radiant swift]

ah true sry i didnt think before typing

intresting realy

[eager latch]

anyone have a good cursed stone idol + blades macro?

to avoid the spell queue issue

[sick basin]

Doesn't this get awkward tho as you still want to super charge it?

[vale pine]

it does

but you have a roughly 4 sec window

[vital sage]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[unique flax]

can someone send me the bp/coupe macro?

[swift tinsel]

#showtooltip
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

[vagrant thorn]

genius, I was using expensive brainpower to watch out for Coup during BP spam!! you can just macro that shit!!

automation is the future ;o

[granite trench]

wtffffffffffffffff nooooooooooooooway!!!!!!!!!

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1106224572811984956/1395824985989447710/Assassin.gif.e5a4ff0fd3fb3bb0a6adff826a697710.gif

[amber fox]

What is the way to sim M+ on sub is it dungeon slice?

[lilac stag]

enjoy

[spice matrix]

Erm guys

[vagrant thorn]

that robot is too slow, and besides it's bad for my carpal tunnel. Back in vanilla and TBC where the rotation was just SS SS SS SS SS Evis my carpal tunnel was so bad my entire arm hurt up to my shoulder from pressing 22222 all day every day. I literally cried from pain ;[. Now with this complex rotation bullshit my arm feels great even though it's 20 years older!!

[pallid inlet]

Was sub really that far ahead to warrant the 8% all damage reduction?

[graceful rock]

We got some buffs in deathstalker tree

[unreal musk]

[pallid inlet]

that was the aoe

[swift tinsel]

lol mass casualty buff

[pallid inlet]

who knows, 8% is a wild swing this close to release

[swift tinsel]

bp going to the moon for ds

[spice matrix]

We now BP at 1 target

[graceful rock]

I mean there’s 6 weeks til tuning means anything

[lilac stag]

@plush roost as predicted.

good job mate

thank chinaguy too

[sly shore]

what happen

[cosmic sparrow]

8% is crazy. Wasn't outlaw out performing the other two specs?

[lilac stag]

2 rogues ruined it for everyone else lolol

j/k

[hazy breach]

Ye and it got nerfed by 15%

[sly shore]

what did they even do

I am out of the loop fr

[lilac stag]

kept up with range in keys

[hazy breach]

Just played beta

Did good damage

[sly shore]

[lilac stag]

we joked about it this am

[cosmic sparrow]

Is deathstalker gonna be the go to for M+ now?

[swift tinsel]

demo locks dodging nerfs like Neo

[sly shore]

how dare they do their 2 button rotation

[lilac stag]

it's joever. time to reroll

[thin sinew]

I do hope people understand this is beta tuning not live

[lilac stag]

i hope you understand live is beta

[swift tinsel]

nah number go down life over

[cosmic sparrow]

Facts

[swift tinsel]

also ignore buffs

[red vortex]

Nah no way

[plush roost]

https://tenor.com/view/myb-turn-leave-chillindude-super-smash-bros-melee-gif-27204576

[red vortex]

We get

Subtlety
All damage reduced by 8%.

[thin sinew]

except it's not?

it's alpha

[cosmic sparrow]

Were the DS buffs enough to over take Trickster?

[sly shore]

it's beta

[plush roost]

Dw 8% nerf will be followed by sec tec apex bugfixes, and potent powder apex bugfixes

[upbeat garden]

gg .dead spec .stay dead even ,more

[plush roost]

And we will be stronger

[lilac stag]

who are these folks. is it still free return to wow weekend?

kekw

[maiden oar]

what the

surely theyd hit that guy too?

[plush roost]

30% soul rend nerf is massive is it not?

[swift tinsel]

yeah they got the babiest nerf but then also diabolist buffed

[cosmic sparrow]

What did @plush roost do to get rogues nerfed?

[lilac stag]

@hazy breach wonder if the apex tech stays now

[upbeat garden]

buffing warlock ,who tf is working at blizz

[maiden oar]

oh ok i didnt even read the notes for non rogues

i just assumed untouched

bc neo dodging

[candid mural]

the real question is did they fix any of the 5 billion bugs we have?

[woeful wren]

Subtlety
All damage reduced by 8%.
Unholy
All damage increased by 8%.

??????

[vale pine]

BETA Tuning

Tl;DR: some buffs to Deathstalker AoE paired with a nerf to general damage.
We will likely see more tuning over time, so its overall fairly irrelevant.

[open depot]

Fastest pin in the west

[upbeat garden]

I dont care about deathstalker its an assasination hero talent ,I want big coupes

[sly shore]

you mean

big darkest night lol!

[cloud sequoia]

Bruhhh I just started playing sub after years and they do this to me

[outer cloak]

it’s been real

[sly shore]

same thing in a different skin

[swift tinsel]

ah I forgot they have harvester not hellcaller mb

[upbeat garden]

Shadow priest new king

[eager latch]

didn't shadow get nerfed too

[swift tinsel]

dooms over sub 8% nerf, praises spriest that gets 15%

lmfao

[eager latch]

15% aura with some minor individual buffs

[upbeat garden]

sp got something in exchange ,sub didnt

[swift tinsel]

read hero talent changes

[upbeat garden]

I dont play deathstalker

[lilac stag]

i'd post the first time meme, but I'm too tired

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/ts-genuinely-frying-me-ts-frying-me-ts-frying-me-gif-15599417133692893606

[lilac stag]

channel back to normal in 24 hours

[bleak night]

aura nerf and deathstalker buff holy moly

the double whammy

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/airplane-first-time-nervous-80s-movies-gif-19769548

[swift tinsel]

wait lemme see if I still have it

the collage

[lilac stag]

at least i'm consistent. hate still there ❤️

[slow folio]

hey so for the trickster technique disorienting strikes and devious distractions saying i need secret techniques talent to use

[swift tinsel]

lol I forgot I had my cats as my pfp for a while

[eager latch]

this is so fucking funny man

[lilac stag]

poor kitteh

[hazy breach]

Just a visual bug

[swift tinsel]

credit to whoever put it together

[slow folio]

they are red, i def have secret techniques?

[upbeat garden]

Im glad there are more ppl like me :)))

[hazy breach]

They are red, but they work

[slow folio]

ohh ok

thx

[maiden oar]

did u end up actually playing ds then

[swift tinsel]

I never did in tww

even on the st bosses in nerubar

[upbeat garden]

cuz its sht

[swift tinsel]

but people would

[maiden oar]

oh ok

i live in blissful ignorance

[swift tinsel]

iirc it was a bit ahead on pure single target

[hazy breach]

Nothing seems to have been fixed

[slate marlin]

i just hope ds isnt too ahead in aoe

anything below 25% better i wont touch ds

[fierce wigeon]

lock the discord its time

[steel zinc]

what did get fixed because we got nerfed

[hazy breach]

Nothing

[lilac stag]

we had our round of bug fixes last week. come back in a year

[upbeat garden]

Why fix when u can nerf

[steel zinc]

cool so no fixes just nerfs

[lilac stag]

#subtlety message

[upbeat garden]

I feel like blizz is worse than a private server in terms of giving a f about fixing their game

[hazy breach]

Fairly sure its still behind, these buffs arent that big

The mass casualty thing is to make DN better, not aimed at buffing the overall much

And +10% crit damage on momentum is fairly minor

[slate marlin]

Thats good theb

Thanks eleem

[kind edge]

@plush roost with how much haste % are u on beta?

[plush roost]

587 or 678 depending how i feel like gearing

[kind edge]

how much % is that?

[hazy breach]

Generally better to write it in actual stat numbers since otherwise people will be confused by the 3% extra from alacrity

But it would be like 13.5% or 15.5% from gear

[woeful wren]

Do we have a table of haste break points anywhere

[kind edge]

and its let us send 2 sectec inside blades with that %? on pre patch it wont

[hazy breach]

It does not

[kind edge]

ahh ok

i thought i was missing something

[hazy breach]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1466079744612368619/1466080624384151628/image.png?ex=69835a7b&is=698208fb&hm=91bf5c56c16ad026e0ea6b79da37d7a0179f880d8bfade30984faf2fa00ca470&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=258&height=156

[woeful wren]

ty fam

[kind edge]

i will save this stuff on my desktop. ty

[hazy breach]

But keep in mind just because it increases dance duration at those threshold

Doesnt necessarily mean those are the optimal haste levels

[upbeat garden]

So we wait for 12.2.5 to have fun

[hazy breach]

Sectech cdr or more combo point regen might be worth it anyway

[lilac stag]

Is this with DR now?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[eager latch]

is this at 80 or at 90?

[hazy breach]

Although its largely irrelevant

As you wont be reaching those higher breakpoints anyway during the first tier

[lilac stag]

yeah ofc not

[sly shore]

basically 2s is achieveable

[lilac stag]

Doubt even second but who knows

[woeful wren]

Just thinking about with the trinket on use ig

[hazy breach]

You have roughly 2.2k total secondary stats at max ilvl

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[unreal silo]

how bad was sub and assa to get these buffs

[slate marlin]

sub got nerfed

[plush roost]

Assa wss very bad tho ye

[unreal silo]

ah reduced, assuming hero talent buffs doesnt balance it out for ds

[small helm]

rip sub?

[eager latch]

8% nerf 1.5 months before the season starts

it's over, pack it up

[kind edge]

im asking myself how much dps loss is overall, if i push haste until i can 2 sectech inside blades on m+ .
since blades its 1.5 min cd...

if this makes sense

[woeful wren]

just has to be <20 sec cd on sec tech no?

[kind edge]

blades is 16 sec

[woeful wren]

with guidon its not that hard to get i assume

[plush roost]

Its not worth it

[woeful wren]

4 set is +4 sec

[hazy breach]

Definitely not

[kind edge]

i forgot about that!

[chrome palm]

Why did they buff it and nerf outlaw 😭 😭

[plush roost]

Better to play 587 or 684 haste and max mast

[chrome palm]

We were so close

[plush roost]

U can do it in lust tho and is good

[hazy breach]

You would need like 39% haste to get sectech 2x reliably in blades btw

[left ledge]

i was late to the reaction party

so instead ill add a unique twist

[hazy breach]

And the second one isnt even supercharged so its not even that good

[kind edge]

jesus lord its way too much

[left ledge]

how is goremaw still in the game

[lilac stag]

how is deathstalker still in the game

[left ledge]

i mean at least that means lust means 2x sectec

or is it like

39% baseline

[maiden oar]

thats true im going to unsub i think i cant go on anymore

[hazy breach]

Lust is 2x yes

[left ledge]

honestly

i kinda like that

[woeful wren]

So % bonuses apply to sectech cd?

PI pls

[slate marlin]

no

[hazy breach]

It does

But like

PI and BL still aint good

[slate marlin]

it does?

is it sd what they dont affect?

[left ledge]

yeah SD is baseline im p sure

[hazy breach]

Deepening shadows explicitly says its only haste from your haste stat

[left ledge]

or not baseline but yeah just your stat

no external shit

[hazy breach]

Sectech is just standard hasted cd

Which i still despise btw

[alpine wraith]

sec tech has one last hate point for us

after all the bugs

[left ledge]

yeah tbh not sure why they kept the hasted cd

i thought when they removed it off dance they'd remove it off sectec too

[hazy breach]

Because now everytime i want to change something in simc

I need to check like 20 different haste breakpoints

And its +1% in 5 of them, +-0 in 5, -1% in 5 and then like -4% in the remaining 5

[left ledge]

do we go live with sectec hasted cdr

[hazy breach]

Yesd

[left ledge]

do we go live with goremaw still on the tree though

[amber fox]

How is sub now with the -8% nerf?

[hazy breach]

So instead of being flexible with your cds like they said they wanted

[left ledge]

the nerf is on beta

[hazy breach]

We MUST press sectech on CD

[fleet acorn]

When do you guys use in st the fok proc? Out of Dance in downtime?

[hazy breach]

Never

[alpine wraith]

yea the more cdr you get

[amber fox]

I re-speced from Assassination

[alpine wraith]

thje krangler it gets

[amber fox]

How do you SIM Sub for M+ is it dungeon slice or 6-targets 40-seconds?

[left ledge]

dungeon slice

i mean we kind of already aimed to press sectec on cd anyways but yeah i get what you mean

there's much less of a set up

more of a press it

[hazy breach]

Yes but because of the cdr not using it for like 3 seconds was fine

[kind edge]

@plush roost this is your fault.

[amber fox]

Can you use Sectec out of shadow dance or hold it?

[lilac stag]

Hold

It should ideally be first finisher every dance

[hazy breach]

At certain haste levels you just send it regardless

and adjust everything else accordingly

Which sometimes means delaying blades by like 10+ seconds showing as a gain in simc

[woeful wren]

If they fix sectech + apex interaction. Are we saved

[hazy breach]

No, and theyre not going to

[woeful wren]

T_T

[tidal blade]

Play sub anyway

[alpine wraith]

i doubt they will fix all apex bug

but if they fix most of them it will be good

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/we-are-so-cooked-gif-11199807318849761981

[amber fox]

I wanted to play Rogue in Midnight as well, guess back to the drawing board.

[woeful wren]

ye time to reroll DK cos its just perma OP

[bleak night]

[lilac stag]

blizz: we’re going to make sub more approachable

new rogues in discord: beta tuning happened 5 weeks out from raid release; can’t play rogue now.

[amber fox]

That was my main in Season 3 lol. Frost tho not Unholy.

100% loyal to Havoc DH tho.

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/deadpool-logan-wolverine-vs-movie-gif-6325397189164814343

[wheat elk]

people who has been playing rogue are gonna play it regardless of it's state anyways, most of the ones that say stuff like these are the ones hopping on meta specs every chance they get

[plush roost]

Mfw im doing 20% more overall than other classes and get an 8% nerf 😵 🤯

[lilac stag]

Nah we hit the sub too hard. Now I can play it crowd.

[amber fox]

So you'll be +12% better overall

[lilac stag]

Meta chasing starts in 4 weeks

[plush roost]

Ill just find a way to be 20% again you cant stop me

[lilac stag]

Please get your discord meltdown timeline straight

[wheat elk]

just saw a beta key after the changes sub was on top still so

[amber fox]

Hit your buttons more gooder

[wheat elk]

apologies good sir

[bleak night]

its never too early for a good meltdown

[wheat elk]

now that's true

[lilac stag]

look at that. still S tier on beta

[woeful wren]

play DS and complain when any1 cleaves but u cos funnel. this is the new strat

[alpine wraith]

go back in time to get tornado back

FUNNEL

[sullen hare]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923898501529600/1463841540618321930/hero.png?ex=69831e2c&is=6981ccac&hm=d3a18c087bcb69906acb0b904cc7b5e2894bedf074558e89f81c61e448d6f80f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1244&height=788

[wheat elk]

question have you been playing DS this whole time?

[plush roost]

Anihillator added !!!

[plush roost]

I played both but mostly trickster when they bugfixed 40% crit dam on ds

[sullen hare]

I just searched for the latest one that fuu had not my fault ok

[alpine wraith]

yea DS got nuked

or well adjusted to reality

being krangled ass shit

[sullen hare]

it definitely deserves its tier

[wheat elk]

it didn't?

[warm marlin]

60% psychic link and a massive dot buff

[alpine wraith]

well it is not horrible

just worse than trickster

[warm marlin]

6/8M bosses are spread cleave fights

[alpine wraith]

but if you played DS for 2 days in a row

you would thank god it is not as good

nothing like losing mark permanently on some shit or it getting stuck somewhere or having to do weird things every pull

[wheat elk]

i would still play trickster cuz i have played enough DS on assa

sick of that mark shit

[alpine wraith]

big G

[hazy breach]

It went from having 40% more crit damage to 20% more crit damage

Like a week ago or so

Which was like 5-6% nerf, and trickster was already looking like it was ahead

[woeful wren]

think I might be the only person at this point that wants DS to be good smh

[wheat elk]

well for me having options between hero talents is a good thing but when one of them is the fucking DS i rather it being behind so it wont even be a choice

[sleek thunder]

i want deathstalker too

[wheat elk]

and gameplay wise having more cleave feels better than to have 2% more prio

[past night]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

trickster prio is not horrible either if the storm hero talent didnt troll us

[graceful osprey]

Broooo we got a 8% damage nerf across the board

[woeful wren]

I'm just bored of trickster from last season. They made some good tweaks tho to shift power from only cleave to some ST

[wheat elk]

we still good

[sleek thunder]

8% is huge

[woeful wren]

Think evi could still use a baseline buff tho. Feels weird af to BP 2 mobs

[sleek thunder]

3.4.5% id take but 8%

[wheat elk]

there is more than a month left , if the spec feel behind ( which it wont ) they gonna do a minor buff to compensate ig

[lilac stag]

this isnt the assa channel

[wheat elk]

why is that

[lilac stag]

they get the nice buffs

we'll get 25% more to BP

[bleak night]

nice buffs

im so glad they buffed doomblade

my favorite talent

[hazy breach]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-yoda-the-mandalorian-cute-baby-wave-gif-16275002

[lilac stag]

[woeful wren]

Ye, BP is now the default finisher. Evi has been removed apart from when coup procs

[wheat elk]

remember when we didnt have bp and was evicerating in aoe? be grateful

[sullen hare]

evisc in aoe felt fine

[lilac stag]

BE GRATEFUL

ffs

[sullen hare]

I wonder what the cumulative buff% BP got to even be viable in 4+ targets was

[wheat elk]

XDD

[harsh meadow]

how could Charrend do this

[woeful wren]

Secret Technique has been reworked into a passive of black powder

[sullen hare]

not enough friction there bud we're gonna need to also increase black powder's energy cost to 65

[outer cloak]

Next week is sub buffs week I can feel it

[sullen hare]

GAME PLAYERS LOVE FRICTION

[outer cloak]

And fixes

[sullen hare]

GOTTA ADD SOME MORE

[maiden oar]

i hope they just make it so u can strike some guy who doesnt have mark and it moves the mark to that guy

i dont understadn why this is not allowed

[sullen hare]

see you in 12.5

[maiden oar]

or make the mark its own keybind

[woeful wren]

Shuriken Storm has been removed. Instead every 3rd black powder will gain combo points instead of spend them

[maiden oar]

so i can just move the stupid thing

or reapply it if the guy goes away

[sullen hare]

oh that's wretched I love it

[lilac stag]

you're looking for the hunter discord

[maiden oar]

no im good!

im not playing that class!

[hazy breach]

Im sure theyre having a meltdown too

BM got giga nerfed

[lilac stag]

year of the Spear BOOMstick!

[woeful wren]

BM had its season it can sit the fk down

[maiden oar]

i just think they could make deathstalker way comfier with almost 0 effort

[wheat elk]

@lilac stag

[maiden oar]

[lilac stag]

yeah MfD and DSM / Hunters Mark are just slightly different things. good talk

[maiden oar]

i hope they just rework deathstalker entirely

or give the mark its own keybind honestly why dont they just do that

[hazy breach]

Surely they do that in 13.0

[lilac stag]

they could make it worse

[hazy breach]

[maiden oar]

just give me ogcd thatr marks the man

with whatever cooldown u want i dont care

[wheat elk]

or they would just delete it and sub only has like 1 hero talent D:

[maiden oar]

already does

[sullen hare]

that changes what?

[maiden oar]

or did i guess idk about midnight

[wheat elk]

the fact that DS by design is terrible

[alpine wraith]

their motto for deathstalker is just buff it until morale improves

[maiden oar]

am i dumb in suggesting that they should make applying the mark its own button

[alpine wraith]

or get bored

[maiden oar]

is that bad

[sullen hare]

oh yeah no sorry, there's some heavy sarcasm in my reply. it wouldn't change anything because DS has been basically dead in the water the entirety of its existence for subtlety @wheat elk

[grand wyvern]

buttons are forbidden

[maiden oar]

they deleted a bunch so theres room now

[lilac stag]

no it's fine, just like hunters mark. sadly the moving of it, or friction, is what they want since we're not paying attention to anything else with our 2-3 buttons

[wheat elk]

i mean even before that we had more than 2 bottons it was still the same shit

[lilac stag]

nah we could stike move it. it wasnt until they started fucking with it for Assa

they sub got totally hosed

[maiden oar]

i think theres some tech with the apex on beta that makes the spec more interesting

but on prepatch its sleepy

but if theres a bug where it just goes away randomly and its over and they dont wanna fix the bug

[lilac stag]

prepatch... doesn't... fkn.... matter

[maiden oar]

then surely they can let u just reapply it w strike

or its own button

[maiden oar]

i know

im saying theres more to pay attention to when it actually matters

[lilac stag]

then why bring it up?

[maiden oar]

bc saying nothing to pay attn to with 2/3 buttons is a prepatch complaint

[lilac stag]

rogue hero talents are all shit

this isnt new

[grand wyvern]

for many people without beta prepatch is the only version of the spec they got to play

[maiden oar]

trickster is good

[maiden oar]

yeah thats true

[warm marlin]

feel like they're keeping DN evis to make ppl upkeep snd

[maiden oar]

yeah dn is fine

[warm marlin]

especially in these simple times

[maiden oar]

my main complaint is just that if some guy has the mark on them then u cant put it somewhere else

[alpine wraith]

you would actually snd in between packs instead of wasting time on evis

[maiden oar]

and if they have the bug where the mark vanishes and its over

or if the boss is going to disappear

[alpine wraith]

it is silly how you even use a strike to keep mark with DN up to avoid evis

we are really in a time of all time

[maiden oar]

then idk

[warm marlin]

another keybind = 50% of playerbase abandons spec

[maiden oar]

like u could be reapplying it with dn because the cooldown on its own keybind is long enough to have significant downtime otherwise

[maiden oar]

no.....

[hazy breach]

Idk maybe we just use DN on cd now

25% more damage on mass casualty is a lot

[alpine wraith]

maybe one more lil buff

to mass casualty

[maiden oar]

idk i just think its so annoying now that u cant move the mark if a mark already exists

[alpine wraith]

it already hit decently high

[maiden oar]

i liked it better in tww

[alpine wraith]

it just got worse yea

[maiden oar]

i was genuinely not a deathstalker hater last expac

i preferred trickster bc cdr went crazy and i loved flawless form and coup

but it didnt feel anywhere near as bad as it feels now

[hazy breach]

Yerp

[warm marlin]

be grateful that we have avoided strikepocalypse™

[alpine wraith]

oh that one was fun too

they still need to avoid the apexcalypse tho

otherwise sec tech strike evis strike evis strike evis

[lilac stag]

we were kinda due for builder abomination sub arc

maybe thats the 12.1.5 patch

[graceful rock]

I kinda like the apex cringe

[alpine wraith]

it is not taht cringe just makes sense with so much cp generation

if they nerf it

we will just change again

[lilac stag]

watch them nerf SHT

[graceful rock]

Nerfing sht makes us shit

[alpine wraith]

they may nerf shadowcraft

again

[warm marlin]

you might not end up striking for apex

even if they dont fix

a bug was causing strike to be overvalued

in simc

[maiden oar]

what are the odds they delete deathstalker

and add a new hero talent for sub sin in last titan

[woeful wren]

Does the finality bonus crit apply to the apex if it crits

[hazy breach]

Yes

Finality is one of the only eviscerate/bp effects theyve added since early dragonflight that worked with shadowed finishers on their first implementation

The tier set in tww s1 was the other one

[woeful wren]

Cool cheers

[drifting fable]

lol

W patch notes man

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-speed-tweaking-tweak-out-tweak-gif-9626953229313588671

[sly night]

Did demo go un nerfed again?

[bleak night]

no

they nerfed the hero talent that was the op part

[sly night]

Ohok that's good then

[severe linden]

They are still cranking

Just tuned high

[bleak night]

oh i didnt say it was enough just that it was a nerf

no nerf is ever enough when it comes to wizards

[sullen hare]

warlocks: "fine. we'll move even less to stay at the top of the meters"

[severe linden]

Midnight is purple themed, lock is purple. It’s all coming together

[lilac stag]

@bleak night did you figure out what you're playing yet?

[woeful wren]

So is sub, we shadow men

[bleak night]

ive been locked into priest for a while now

hopefully i dont have to heal too much but its not off the table

[lilac stag]

Oz going Holy Priest

[bleak night]

ye ive been playing hpriest

3 button gaming

[lilac stag]

no one wants to touch rogue in the guild

[alpine wraith]

we have the government mandated rogue(me)

then anyone else is like ew

[lilac stag]

that's me until our starting warrior disappears lol

[maiden oar]

deathstalker is purple

if ww is the only good mystic touch source i might be on ww

but otherwise im rogue

[alpine wraith]

we have gone through like 4 warriors by now

[opal basalt]

they just get too dumb to keep playing the game

like maining warrior for a tier is instant -20iq

[alpine wraith]

i mean now fury is literally hands off

20% auto damage

[twin quartz]

Speaking of auto damage, is outlaws top dam still melee

[bleak night]

they did just nerf autos by 10% on them

idk how much that shifts it though

[opal basalt]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MF2XaqQgWAbncCLB?fight=4&type=damage-done&source=3

random pug and i'm defo not the best outlaw

wait thats a sub log

wtf

[bleak night]

really terrible outlaw i agree

didnt even use adr

smh

[twin quartz]

That’s an enlightened outlaw, playing the true spec

[opal basalt]

guess i specced sub for simplicity's sake

but yeah it's main gauche and then melee for me in almost every outlaw log

guess i have too much mastery

[upbeat garden]

nerfing sub ,meanwhile warlock and arcane nerfed still do 200k dps in ST ,balanced

[kind edge]

and frost mage:
All damage dealt increased by 5%.

😛

[radiant swift]

@warm marlin this whole spellq window thing is so stupid.. i cant belive it actualy feels diffrent

still have to test in a m+ , but its as u said it is

[maiden oar]

what did u set it to

[radiant swift]

down to 150 from 400

all the wrong inputs atleast for now are just gone

[maiden oar]

oh ok

ive been at 250 forever

[radiant swift]

i honestly just set it to what the others had for testing

[graceful rock]

I think I had mine a like 196

Before I reset it

[radiant swift]

but 80 was def making me gaps as arcane

[alpine wraith]

150 is fine mostly yea

[radiant swift]

wonder how that would look now on a caster

there is this explaination tho which more or less is the same from what mage discord says:

but idk

[eager latch]

anyone have a good cursed stone idol + blades macro?

[hazy breach]

Theres nothing to macro

You dont want blades to be used before you start the cast of the idol, you want it afterwards

[alpine wraith]

yea only macros i would use and only if you know what you are doing is dance+secret and dance+storm

although i think a general trinket one is also fine

just with a /use 13 and /use 14

[torn tide]

why dance and storm btw?

[hazy breach]

The reason the macro contains :ShurikenStorm: instead of :ShadowStrike: is because there is a bug that makes it so you cannot cast :ShadowStrike: until roughly ~0.2 seconds after entering :ShadowDance:, whereas you can cast :ShurikenStorm: immediately.
Per #subtlety-faq

[torn tide]

oh thankyou

[alpine wraith]

correct every single ms matters in dance now

as losing 1 gcd over and over can be quite impactful

[willow pawn]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[torn tide]

yikes i didnt even notice i was losing it ngl

[hazy breach]

Very hard to notice without digging through your logs and looking at exact cast timings

Similar things happened this tier with our extra coup casts

[prime raft]

aye we got buffs

but so did DK ???

[hazy breach]

Its not a buff my dude

[prime raft]

more damage is more damage

[hazy breach]

-8% is actually less damage

[kind edge]

less is more

https://tenor.com/view/toddlers-and-tiaras-big-grin-excited-girl-giddy-smile-gif-9689369815152198607

[prime raft]

oh my fault thought more was more

[prime raft]

maybe im slow

[alpine wraith]

the little dagger hidden

[torn tide]

isnt there a thing saying "all damage reduced by 8%" below this

[young path]

Wonder with the DS buffs the actual loss is when playing that hero spec… gonna beer math 7.9% 🤣

[torn tide]

ye this

[alpine wraith]

well ds and trickster were almost same with the DS bugged extra crit dmg

then one thing happened

now maybe there are more changes

[prime raft]

maybe we all roll DK till they nerfed

[hazy breach]

Those DS buffs are not very impactful. Until they fix follow the blood to work on shadowed finisher and clones you are never picking it over momentum. +10% crit damage is not nothing, but its not major, somewhere along the lines of ~2.5% more damage to those spells

[astral axle]

hi eleem

[alpine wraith]

it was 32% back then too

so not even back to standard

[hazy breach]

Mass casualty buff is mostly aimed at making using DN in aoe less bad, rather than actually buffing the spec overall

[alpine wraith]

yea maybe we avoid being degen with mark

but no idea if it is enough

althogh with the extra mark pop rng maybe

[hazy breach]

It doesnt pop an extra mark btw

[torn tide]

do u think there'll be more changes when midnight actually drops tho, like balance changes n stuff

[hazy breach]

It just applies 2 stacks instead of 3

So its genuinely bad to proc it in aoe

[alpine wraith]

rofl

[hazy breach]

Ofc

[alpine wraith]

blizz always manages to disappoint

there will be many changes even when raid is out

[hazy breach]

There will be changes every week or every 2 weeks after its been released too

For like a month or two like usual

Historically the first raid usually sees more frequent class tuning then subsequent ones

[north schooner]

they could easily fix the bs with the quietus celeris by making it actually pop the mark stack and making mass casualty also trigger on that one

[alpine wraith]

yea man i though it popped 1 instantly

meanwhile how about we just make it do 2 stacks

hurr

[hazy breach]

Yeah thats how it should work

But

[alpine wraith]

they are not beating the allegations of the deathstalker plan is to make it hated for sub

or maybe just the ideas are good but the implementation is not the best

[rustic geyser]

...make it hated for rogue*
fixed it

[brisk onyx]

lol wtf

[granite trench]

this doesnt work

[brisk onyx]

working for me

[torn tide]

oh yea btw so what this does is that when u cast coup, it instant blasts bp right?

[alpine wraith]

remember to put the casts in diff lines

like #showtooltip

then /cast Coup de Grace

and /cast Black Powder

[granite trench]

it works <50% of the time. that means you'll be doing black powder like 4 times before it casts coupe

[alpine wraith]

what

[swift tinsel]

Yeah what lol

[brisk onyx]

wdym

[granite trench]

when coupe is ready.

[swift tinsel]

Well yeah

It only casts coup if you have coup available

Otherwise it casts black powder

[granite trench]

when coupe is ready, ill use the macro and it wont coupe 50% of the time.

[brisk onyx]

[granite trench]

not cuz of "distance to target" either.

[swift tinsel]

Skill diff ig

Bc it works fine for me

[alpine wraith]

dont worry blizz has coded a way for it to only not work for you

it happens sometimes

in the code there is aline saying check if player=Tusi if true make his coup macro fail sometimes

[maiden oar]

the curse...

[hazy breach]

Do you have it on your stealth bar

[alpine wraith]

and i expect blizz to put 3 or 4 more if statements

[granite trench]

no i dont thats it.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[alpine wraith]

ah the special krangle

[swift tinsel]

Yeehaw cowboy

[granite trench]

was about to lose faith in the entire class

[swift tinsel]

Delete rogue reroll new GUID

[brisk onyx]

whatever

[swift tinsel]

I mean you still can

[brisk onyx]

We have 1 month left

right?

[swift tinsel]

[north schooner]

eleem lied btw, it does pop the mark. But of course it's always a single target mark

[alpine wraith]

ah double trouble

[north schooner]

so the issue with QC remains

[alpine wraith]

tbh if would be so easy for me to log on and check

but im doing uma dailies

hard work

[alpine wraith]

well the guy that codes things was on vacation that week

then it is on prio -54 now

[north schooner]

I mean, Mass Casualty getting cockblocked by QC seems like an oversight or "lol friction". Not that they didn't have time for it

[alpine wraith]

nah it is as usual lack of complete implementation

like making the apex idea implementing it

then

oh wait i has to work with these other things?

maybe later

[hazy breach]

It absolutely didnt at the start of the beta

[north schooner]

TODO: complete interactions with other talents

[alpine wraith]

let harry do it

but harry got laid off 2 months ago

oh no

he had all the data

[hazy breach]

But fair enough if it does right now then mb

[plush roost]

Alright guys i have empiracal evidence that sub is dead

[alpine wraith]

i mean hey another bug fixed!

[plush roost]

Unfortunate

My aug didnt press ebon might all key

[alpine wraith]

and another one joins the cause

[plush roost]

So i do no dam

[alpine wraith]

esz

[plush roost]

Unfortunate

[alpine wraith]

i forgot to invite shaman

unluck

[plush roost]

Augnentation shaman when

[alpine wraith]

warrior augmentation shaman

[plush roost]

I played a full phys comp key as assa and was 40k behind the mm hunter

Interesting tuning choices indeed

[eager latch]

seems like sub is still the best bet

despite nerfs

haven't tried outlaw yet though ngl

[granite trench]

sub been nerfed?

[hazy breach]

On the beta

[granite trench]

nah thats not a nerf

[hazy breach]

What

[fiery junco]

Been here 20 mins and tusi chaotic af

[bleak night]

[alpine wraith]

i mean i expect he didnt read the whole part

the -8% is kinda at the end

enhance!

[slate marlin]

Charrend

[brisk onyx]

[slate marlin]

Dont pretend u didnt play deathstalker

And 8% haste

[willow pawn]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[eager latch]

!shieeeeet

[graceful osprey]

Brooo did we need the nerf? Blizzard please

[chrome palm]

Gg

That’s what you get for doing high keys as sub gapping everyone

Think twice before you gap

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/gapplebees-gapped-zr1-owned-gt500-gif-16544856

[sullen hare]

https://tenor.com/view/tfl-tube-central-line-london-mind-the-gap-gif-21646455

[steel sierra]

Anyone know off-hand which setting will show a moving energy bar? It's just a solid line regardless of how much energy I have

[sullen hare]

Did you set the color for the background to yellow?

Because that's about all I can think up

[torn tide]

what got changed in the class tunings that just came out? i cant access wowhead lol

oh ye pins thanks

hmm is 8% really that detrimental

[bleak night]

i'd say it hurts us by close to 8%

[torn tide]

who wouldve thought

[brisk onyx]

[sullen hare]

[proper eagle]

8% reduction?

[sullen hare]

Yeah, we'll feel about 8% weaker in a month

[azure thicket]

[muted girder]

8% nerf for sub seems kinda wild

[sullen hare]

Nah

The changes they were making like +50% to auto attack damage was wild. 8% aura nerf isn't great and it does move the needle but I doubt you're gonna notice 8% too badly

[fleet wharf]

we are getting pretty close to launch date though, blizz prolly done making big class/spec changes now right?

[sullen hare]

If you have a buddy where it's a coin flip who does more dps then it might make it a little less of a tossup but at the end of the day it's still prepatch and blizzard has plenty of time to mess us up in spectacular and different ways

[sullen hare]

Prob not til rwf season, if I had to guess.

[fleet wharf]

you mean not till the end of rwf right?

[sullen hare]

There's usually a decent round of tuning changes right around that week yeah?

[fleet wharf]

yea, there is heroic week, but i thought they don't like making big changes before mythic launch

[lilac stag]

We’ve got a ways to go tuning wise

[fleet wharf]

or at least that felt like the case for tww

[sullen hare]

Blizzard is probably gonna see some insane apex cooks in heroic week and wanna make changes

[fleet wharf]

yea, my thought was #s don't matter now, but with only a few more weeks to go, maybe they do now

[sullen hare]

We usually get the feral treatment so we'll probably get an aura buff or nerf at most I bet

[fleet wharf]

idk, my guild feral makes it seem like they have it worse for this expac launch at least

[sullen hare]

Who knows? Maybe they'll be spicy and give us another 4-5% on black powder just for memes 8)

[muted girder]

yeah i mean i dont think sub was a top performing spec on beta, so an 8% overall just seems unwarrated. Would make sense if we were overperforming to bring in line but...

[fleet wharf]

nerf vanish, our dev is too good at using it

[lilac stag]

We’re in a better (more complete) spot going into a new expansion on all three specs than we ever have been.

[torn tide]

how so?

[stable plume]

is perfidious projector actually bis for st prepatch or just sim bait?

shows 4.3% increase over my lily screams combo

[maiden oar]

good sub players were going insane

[maiden oar]

idk how much all the other good specs got hit but some nerf was warranted probably

[stable plume]

that's m+ tho right?

[lilac stag]

dimmy

[stable plume]

ooh thx for the info, are u just popping first platform and dmg amp or what?

[lilac stag]

projector just uses lingering and hits like a truck

[muted girder]

A lot of the top Dimi logs using projector and Forge now.

[brisk onyx]

👍

[granite trench]

where can i find sub beta builds?

[lilac stag]

WCL or use variations in #subtlety-faq

[maiden oar]

how do u get wcl to show it when i click summary it doesnt work on beta keys

[woeful wren]

Is there a tooltip error is is something weird happening with the first dance?

I feel like its setting the base higher and the haste is scaling better with it or something

[tepid trellis]

Should just be +4 sec on top of w/e deepening gets it to

[woeful wren]

I mean the tooltip is 3 seconds increase

But in actuality it's providing this result with w.e gear i have on atm:
No TFD - 7.5 duration - /w trinket use - 8.8
TFD - 11.2 duration - /w trinket use - 13.3

[acoustic ginkgo]

quick question, should i use temp pot before or after secret technique in the opener macro? i feel like it should be before, but every macro i see of someone else is after why?

[granite trench]

cuz it doesnt hit right when u click it

[acoustic ginkgo]

oh true true

thank you

[granite trench]

did i just guess it right!?

how do i open from stealth with 2 shadow dances ready and full combo points

[stable plume]

On a raid boss or in M+?

In both you get premeditation so your first generator gives max combo points. In raid specifically you want to shadow dance once before pull (letting it full recharge) in order to start w 2 supercharged combo points

[tiny flare]

Hi guys, how is sub feeling after the prepatch?

[maiden oar]

do u like pressing a builder and then a spender

its very very barebones

[tiny flare]

Heck yeah! And one major cd eevery now and then

[maiden oar]

all of the nuance requires the apex

which we do not have

[tiny flare]

I wish it could stay like this

[maiden oar]

itll still be approachable w the apex

so dw

[tiny flare]

Thats awesome!

[maiden oar]

u will want shadow dance macros but it isnt that bad

just 1 to enter it at low cp and 1 to enter it at high cp

theyre in faq

[tiny flare]

You have piqued my interes

Why?

[maiden oar]

dance duration is variable based on haste so its really easy to lose a global in dance if u dont press it immediately after dance goes off

[tiny flare]

WAIT WHAT?!

[maiden oar]

like if dance is 1.2 seconds (for sake of example)