subtlety

[plush roost]

Well if i compare to anyone else then i dont need 18 on pull

[hazy breach]

Deserved 5% buff for sure

[plush roost]

Hehe

[warm marlin]

"man our spec sucks" "oh cool buffs announced" "wait a second guys, theres actually hidden super secret tech that we had no idea about (pressing black arrow the second its up) that we only put into the APL 2 days after the buffs were announced! wow bm is 15% ahead now!"

[plush roost]

Ye it prevented any st buffs to sub, not that we would get one anyway, but it is a limiting factor which is why i prefer new nimble

[woeful wren]

indeed

[tribal blade]

wait did they actually do that

scumbag behavior

[warm marlin]

yes

[nova cradle]

(least scumbag action by azor)

[tribal blade]

that's insane lol

[woeful wren]

I'd rather however that we have a clear cleave spec and a clear ST so ppl can choose based on comps or w.e they want to play. It's doable with what we have as options

[plush roost]

Didnt the sim also use completely wrong talents before too?

[warm marlin]

right after the buffs were announced, they said that some apl changes were in that actually made dark ranger ahead the entire time

[tepid trellis]

dont think azor has anything to do with public hunter apl anymore

at least not last i heard from em

[warm marlin]

so they just buffed the hero tree that was ahead

[nova cradle]

well they carry on his legacy well

[plush roost]

I remember boomhunt joking that theyd make an apl update every other day and find .5% dps

But it wasnt even a joke it was just real xddd

[bleak wind]

Assuming its not one of those things that is taken automatically and needs to be reverted manually?

[hazy breach]

Yes because it's really dumb the way they did it

[woeful wren]

@plush roost also double on use was my solution to getting 18 stacks on bosses while still rinsing trash in flood

this timer failed btw.

[plush roost]

Problem with 2 onuse is it was less boss dps anyway

[tribal blade]

4 mins going into that on a 20 seems hella tight

[lilac stag]

Idk any other discord that is as ethical with sims as we are, for better or for worse.

[woeful wren]

we had lust up

should be killable

[tribal blade]

ah ok

[tepid trellis]

ngl hunter is pretty good with it

[plush roost]

Dw i can krangle the apl till march on quelthalas

[tepid trellis]

atleast from what i gathered speaking to a few of em

[woeful wren]

ill peak above hunter in the first 40 sec of that opener

even with double on use

[hazy breach]

Imagine if you had two trinkets in that opener instead of 1

[plush roost]

Orb. Orb. Orb.

[woeful wren]

it was just better spread for flood imo

[plush roost]

😩

[lilac stag]

What will be the most interesting part to me of the class changes is how close APLs get across the board for maxing out sims vs sandbagging

[woeful wren]

first pull with lust fucking sucks with no on use

[warm marlin]

so I don't spread misinfo, here's the proof btw, disgusting behaviour:

[plush roost]

My tech for that was to flag at 3 prism because of how much walking you did to go to scaffolding 2 with crabs and to kill it, youd sit on flag for 10 seconds anyway

[icy tinsel]

Is there a way ( ON BETA ) To get more damage out of Lashe Macabre? By using differnt spells in the opener ? Saw some logs of highest damage parse subs doing that. not sure what the deal is wiht it. like using BP and Shurken Storm etc.

[plush roost]

Also let u spread more ruptures

[hazy breach]

Better to not do it

[icy tinsel]

why not for clones and all that? Its better damage is it not?

[hazy breach]

What

[icy tinsel]

#subtlety message

I mean best ST logs on beta are doing that stuff so idk.

[hazy breach]

Again

What

[plush roost]

Okay but i am confused as to why u linked a shitpost

[tribal blade]

did you read the first line of that post

[hazy breach]

Macabre has nothing to do with clones

[plush roost]

May i see these logs btw

[icy tinsel]

yes

[plush roost]

For my own curiousity

[woeful wren]

@plush roost have u tried playing vessel over alnseer btw

[plush roost]

The haste trinket?

Or the agi one

[icy tinsel]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mgTFJbP6AjrqXvCc?fight=34&type=casts&source=2&pull=6&view=timeline

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mgTFJbP6AjrqXvCc?fight=36&type=casts&pull=7&source=2&view=timeline

[plush roost]

Idk trinket bames yet

[woeful wren]

the soul collector agi one

last 1 min per stack

[plush roost]

Oh ye i did it a bit

[woeful wren]

the animation seems a bit aids to follow in big packs

[plush roost]

I think aln is just turbo bis

[icy tinsel]

all tops logs are doing the same thing same. Some sort of opener after dance with black powder and shurken storm

[woeful wren]

ye but getting it proc outside of blades feels bad no

[plush roost]

This is less about lashe and more about silent storm crit doing a lot of damage and potent powder bp doing enough damage in ST to justify at high mastery.

Im psure storm is bait or neutral

[hazy breach]

Ok so instead of eviscerating and doing 165k on average during dance he opted to bp for 68k to proc a 37k macabre

[warm marlin]

it's not optimal

you can send a singular bp for dm and it's about the same for prio, can gain some aoe this way

[icy tinsel]

idk. cant deny logs and numbers

[hazy breach]

165k is more than 105k last I checked

[icy tinsel]

so youre saying what hes doing is not good?

[tepid trellis]

correct

[icy tinsel]

so for mini burn it in ST it should just be Sectec, SD into shadow strike evis?

is it worth to hold coup for dance window?

[plush roost]

Wait this chinese rogue is lowkey cooking tho, 17 haste, 2600 mastery

Double passive trinket

[woeful wren]

plumes a bit weird if u exit combat on a low stack

[plush roost]

Planned execution and finality????

I gotta hit kitchen later and give this shit a try what da heck

Something seems a bit sus about those numbers tho

And he has haste gems...

[woeful wren]

whats the peridot buff from loa

[plush roost]

Somethingsnotquireright

[woeful wren]

only reason i can see him gemming haste

to 100% that buff

[plush roost]

Thats the capybara right?

[woeful wren]

ye was looking ive no idea

but surely if its that good u do the double effects one with it

and not double craft ring

[plush roost]

Does it multiply itself if yourr 4 haste gems? No way right?

[woeful wren]

idk but

i had 2x diff ones just now

55 agi + a stacking crit one

is the diamond giving one of them

ok i got capy with only diamond equipped

so ig it is just a buff based on ur gems main stat

but for M+ surely we would just want mastery procs

[icy tinsel]

yeah ive beeen playing this build with same gear and almsot r1 parsing for damage. exepct for ST

can someone explian this macro from wowhead?

#showtooltip Secret Technique
/cancleaura Ancient Arts
/cast Secret Technique

says it helps with apex talent?

[bleak wind]

did something else change btw that I've missed? My deathstalker sim is down 3k since monday (on live)

[woeful wren]

@plush roost double effects one with it seems decent

[tribal blade]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1407123808116146331/1467018068172472350/image.png?ex=697eda8b&is=697d890b&hm=377becc17109ac6ca85ba731a8807748bd83d4d5d4224444db6abd14d0e7f15d&

the warr in my guild just linked this

[bleak night]

lmfao

[tribal blade]

(he's frozenbozo)

[woeful wren]

hmm. it seems that this ring buff is rather than based on colour of gem just granting a loa per unique. misread that

so with current gem slots available we'd need to skip diamond to get the 4th? and idk about 5th or w.e

actually its fkn shit dmg procs

holy fuck

[tepid trellis]

My guildie is on there too

[tribal blade]

niiice

[tepid trellis]

Tmy

[warm marlin]

No one I know

[tribal blade]

oh shit you guild changed

i remember you being in colour

[chrome palm]

Get hykon out of raid buff 😭

[tribal blade]

i dunno who that is haha

[chrome palm]

That’s the goat

[lilac stag]

Probably a rupture supporter That doesn’t cast rend.

[chrome palm]

That giofiveseven guy is a legit terrorist of na lfg though

[tepid trellis]

Thats about a year ago

[lilac stag]

prophet prob thinks push still raids with you

he’s been lost in Jinx home development

Time no longer exists

[tribal blade]

but my house is so awesome tho

[lilac stag]

It is 🔥

I wish I had the desire to work more on mine.

[restive venture]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[neon frigate]

With the new changes of sub rogue( remove flag, sod) is it stronger or weaker that the previous version?

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade someone may have outdone Jinx room. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DT9PTZ_jKe0/

[tribal blade]

haha pretty good

i still prefer my build

[spiral helm]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[distant sage]

whats the tech with holding sec tec in blades for a few bps for ds

[sand karma]

I'm still very new to Sub rogue. Do I always want to hold sec tec to ensure it's casted with Shadow Dance?

[willow pawn]

Were those bug fixes for prepatxh only?

[distant sage]

yes

[sand karma]

Thanks, i'm not used to having downtime in my rotation. It's been a big adjustment

[vagrant fulcrum]

It’s more that you hold a dance if you don’t have sectec (excluding blades)

[sand karma]

Like if I get a dance charge but Sec Tec wouldn't be up in time to use one of the supercharge points?

[vagrant fulcrum]

This should only happen in second half of blades

Then you’d delay, it’s important to line up sectec and supercharge

Otherwise if you only ever press dance when sectec is ready you shouldn’t desync (since dance has charges while sectec cd is hasted)

[tribal blade]

you can safely completely ignore dance's cd until blades is almost coming back up

[neon frigate]

Is it True that the stat priority is now hasty as main stat? I read different things. My rogue is almost full mastery

[tribal blade]

on prepatch yes

you want a buttload, like 32-35%

can go a bit lower for M+

[neon frigate]

Damn. And in the midnight

I mean will it be that way?

[spiral helm]

so i only track my secret technique and when its up i press macro for dance+tech?

[tender dust]

You need to know why people are talking about haste, with enough haste it lets you fit a other sectech inside of your dance window. but we don't really know at the moment if its worth it.

[tribal blade]

no you won't be stacking as much, the main reason why we're going so hard on haste in prepatch is we don't have the apex yet which is a big loss in energy n stuff

[tribal blade]

on 6+ CP yeah

ideally 7

if you're on low CP you can dance>strike>sectec

[spiral helm]

alright ty. and how do you guys track coup de grace?

and what about my 2nd use of shadowdance? just use it? cause i have 2 charges dance but only one charge tech

[tender dust]

You use 2 in a row. so after the first one expired because your both dances needs to be in your shadowblade window. and your sectech will be coming off cooldown on the start of your 3rd dance

[woeful wren]

Do we have a haste breakpoint list at all

[cursive vapor]

in aoe can just use finisher macro, its just
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

[icy tinsel]

has anyone made a refund sound addon? XD

[crisp jetty]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

majority is built now

still have more to do

[vagrant fulcrum]

If this works I’ll be damned

[dry plank]

Have anyone tried new dh spec? Looks very purple 🙂

[cursive vapor]

#subtlety message

[scarlet heath]

pre patch devourer is ultra cringe, I am waiting for Midnight with mine

the missing Apex talents makes it half a spec

[tulip badger]

Anyone knows if trickster's talent that reduces sectec cd is over base CD or hasted CD? The more haste the less cd reduction?

[upbeat garden]

Isnt that for everyone

sub is actually half of its past glory with no refunds and all that jazz

[scarlet heath]

not everyone, for some specs they are just missing some dmg but not significant part of their kit

you could argue the same for sub I suppose but Devourer gameplay is literally just spam Devour 100 times rn, you build up to your form, drop one star and back you go, it is completely missing the Collapsing Star loop atm

plus it doesnt even hit that hard because good portion of CS budget is in apex

so THE move currently feels like a wet noodle

[lilac stag]

Stealthi’s new main.

[vagrant fulcrum]

[meager coyote]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[meager coyote]

I'm trying to figure out if I should give a fuck about tracking silent storm

any knowers?

[tribal blade]

prob fine to not

only situation where you would want to know if you have the buff is if you're fighting in front of a boss and FW has dropped off

but generally by the time FW has dropped off you have a buff from your last dance, press storm apply FW and that'll last till your next dance

[vapid knoll]

Hey im fairly newish back into WoW currently and maining tank but i want an DPS as an alt.....
Was looking at Sub rogue and wanted to ask how the class and spec is performing currently and how hard it is to learn and play decent at

[tribal blade]

it's definitely not hard to play anymore

performance is a big ? because we're a long way out before midnight with a buttload of tuning gonna happen

[vapid knoll]

Is it fun?

[lilac stag]

If you don’t enjoy paying attention to (at this point) basic aligning of cd timings, you’re likely not to enjoy it.

Fun is individually defined.

it’s much more of a vibe than anything prior, but that’s also midnight in general.

some hate how simple it (and everything else) seems now

[vapid knoll]

I honestly like the vibe on simplicity

[torn tide]

yo do yall think sub rogue is gonna be like one of the better dps in midnight?

[vapid knoll]

Ut its more a is it hard to learn due to me maining still tank and having it as an alt

[lilac stag]

the base spec is in a decent place (especially compared to how sub rogue is in most prepatches). Is there room for improvement? Ofc

[vale pine]

happy suturday lovely people, what is the topic for today?

[lilac stag]

Same as always fuu

Hahah

gm

[vale pine]

yes, rogue looks badass, let me give you one example

[torn tide]

hi fuu

[lilac stag]

Sub is always S tier fwiw

[inner glen]

why Icy veins and Wowhead suggest other trinkets for BiS. which one should we get / M+ and Raid (prepatch)

[vale pine]

who would not want to play a class/spec like this

[lilac stag]

None of it matters. Raid kill timers are mostly 90 seconds or less

put Lily and a passive on in keys and have fun

[torn tide]

LOLL ill always love the dual daggers

[lilac stag]

Raid is forge or lily + projector

[torn tide]

i thought that applied to rogue in general since 20 years ago

[vale pine]

yes

[lilac stag]

No just sub.

Assa usually A tier

[inner glen]

man i bought screams and sack already haha shiet

[lilac stag]

Outlaw went from C tier to O

[vale pine]

the midnight tierlist, for reference

[torn tide]

O for outlaw

[vale pine]

nobody goes more than e/f

sorry

[torn tide]

fair

the one at first place is demo lock right?

[lilac stag]

Shadow Priest

[torn tide]

but anyway peak, sub rogue in top3

[vale pine]

best melee dps, survival does not count

[inner glen]

do we have to turn the tier list upside down?

[hollow spear]

No

[lilac stag]

Would have thought Devourer would have ascended past D tier being new and all

[inner glen]

hehe

[hollow spear]

It's perfect the way it is

[torn tide]

scary

[hollow spear]

They tier list is wrong though fuu

[vale pine]

why?

[hollow spear]

Sub needs to be to the left of survival

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-rogers-alphabet-matters-its-fine-gif-15809115

[hollow spear]

Didn't check further than that tho

[torn tide]

thanks for the help guys

[vale pine]

oh ye, should be

[hollow spear]

We're inching closer to first place every time

They just have to rename shadow priest

To void priest

[vale pine]

there is a class tier list too

[torn tide]

im surprised frost mage is so low down tho

[inner glen]

yeah they're in a really bad spot atm

[hollow spear]

Wait, is this next level sarcasm?

[inner glen]

i would never

[upbeat garden]

No way

[vagrant fulcrum]

druid should be at the top 4 specs, alphabet be damned

[spare briar]

Hey, making a rogue, is subtlety the best spec for beginner?

[upbeat garden]

yes most ez spec in the game

2 buttons no dam

[jaunty heath]

sub got wrecked from the latest hotfixes which is why it was so op

rip

[upbeat garden]

Its not gonna have a place in m+ so it doesnt matter

[hollow spear]

I think we should all freak out about the status quo of prepatch balance

[vale pine]

possible, all specs in the game became noticably simpler

[azure thicket]

there better be a ticking sack of terror in my vault this week

or im gonna frow up

[spare briar]

what should my rotation be leveling in dungeons to max?

[jaunty heath]

Deathstalker: Fixed an issue that caused Precise Killer to apply double its listed effect

[inner glen]

1-2

[jaunty heath]

which is a 20% nerf

lol

[azure thicket]

for leveling sub isn't sooper optimal

it dies in two globals 95% of the time

[hollow spear]

I think they will not touch balance again before they release midnight

Better class swap now

[azure thicket]

just bind shuriken storm, black powder and evis to 1-3 and occasionally shadow dance

[torn tide]

oh what were the latest ones?

[azure thicket]

played some deathstalker in raid, really feels bad not being a trinket/loot goblin at the end of reclears

[torn tide]

or do u mean the rework that came with prepatch lol

[jaunty heath]

Deathstalker: Fixed an issue that caused Precise Killer to apply double its listed effect

this explains why sub was hitting so hard

[torn tide]

damn well im using trickster lmao

[azure thicket]

went from first on the meter pre squish on saladbar to 5th cause the tuning really likes those 1st best trinkets

[jaunty heath]

lol

rip rogue pvp

[keen dome]

We should write a letter to Blizz that they've been very mean misleading people about how cool Rogue is in that animated housing trailer

[azure thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/clodsire-pokémon-pokemon-nuh-uh-shut-up-gif-12287578491228047671

its just gonna bounce off into the trash

[inner glen]

48% haste a little too much right?

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/gaminn-warcraft-gamin-shadowlands-classic-gif-21556168

Community vs Rogues

[upbeat garden]

What trinkets are good ?

[azure thicket]

screams of a forgotten sky on hero track with kill times being what they are beat antenna/prism

in st

didn't see a sack of terror

[torn tide]

my dad and his friends that have been playing wow for 20+ years always says that rogue is bad cuz its super difficult LOL

[azure thicket]

if you have araz trinket just double on use with prism imo but who car

from logs top trinks are araz/perfidious projector trinket but that's more to do with not everyone can get a screams/sack etc

the only damage check tbh is 1 phasing dimmy

[lilac stag]

It’s because they are literally best for the short fights

[azure thicket]

was half awake and forgot to equip araz trinket when we did salhadaar

everyone else learned to do the mechanics at least

[pliant seal]

okay stupid question is it smart to go dual dagger or dagger sword/mace?

[lilac stag]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[pliant seal]

thanks king!

[upbeat garden]

For m+ whats good

[lilac stag]

Lily + Passive

[upbeat garden]

Ok,time to sit in queue for 3 hrs

[vale pine]

wow needs a soloq system

^^

[brisk onyx]

🥳

[knotty mango]

is sack still our best on use trinket?

[lilac stag]

They have it. 40 minutes to join LFR

[vale pine]

its basically like this

damage trinkets got a lot better in pre patch

[knotty mango]

passive* even

[vale pine]

so things like the dimensius trinket

got a lot better

then there is haste

for pre patch, we love to stack haste

and ticking sack benefits from both

high haste, and its a damage trinket

thats why its the best passive option

but also, fight lenghs can be short so a lot of trinkets can be good

the content is trivial, so you can play whatever is best of what you got

[upbeat garden]

I chose to play something else after a few keys on rogue,need that apex for more dopamine 😄

[rocky lake]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rocky lake]

What's the min-max sweet spot for the first dance talent? As in, if you see you haven't been 6 seconds out of combat yet, yet are able to open combat. At what point is it worth waiting out the proc typically in a M+ scenario?

[vale pine]

you usually don't play around it unless its like 1-2 sec left before the proc

[plush roost]

I dont think thats quite how it works since i have all 5 gems and get random bird and lynx procs that sre just on damage effects, and a bear crit proc

[rocky lake]

2 secs seems quite a lot

[lilac stag]

@vale pine without muddying up the research channel. Can you force a delay on just the strike after dance and see what it does in altering results

[hazy breach]

Its ~0.3% per 0.1s

[vale pine]

^

[lilac stag]

So the base sim is over .6% every dance then if it leads with strike

or am I missing something

[hazy breach]

Probably just gonna be dance+storm macro angle

But thats only deathstalker

Since trickster always wants to enter dance at full cp

[lilac stag]

would it possibly want DS, not that we want to play it, to do the same and enter at full CP

[hazy breach]

nop

Not in sims atleast

[lilac stag]

Is there any reason to not update the apl to account for the delay by default with strike?

[hazy breach]

I have a bunch of midnight stuff in there and i cant be arsed to spend time removing them to optimize for prepatch

[lilac stag]

I mean going forward. I don’t care about prepatch, but the behavior will still be the same (dance+strike) in MN

[rocky lake]

is it worth using eviscerate once in a 2 target scenario if Slice and dice isn't up?

[hazy breach]

It should be up, but yes

[golden totem]

Why is that

[hazy breach]

To get more finishers in dance and to guarantee the apex on coup after sectech

The question is why deathstalker doesnt want it

[vale pine]

probably because mark procs frequently enough

[torn tide]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

[thorny ridge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

would it be ok to delay dance by a few seconds to build to full if you mess up

[round latch]

based

[tribal blade]

or sending sectec immediately far more important

[lilac stag]

Bruh how are you messing up 2 buttons.

[tribal blade]

i dunno moving out for mechanics or what not

shit happens

[lilac stag]

impossible according to 40% of the random visitors we get from other classes

[tribal blade]

lol true

[hazy breach]

Probably

[torn tide]

lol wtf am i doing wrong, this aint workin

[hollow spear]

Looking forward to half of the "lol spec too easy" andies coming back here in a couple of weeks asking for log reviews of their green parses

[tribal blade]

check spelling

also you might need to hit the blades one more than once

[torn tide]

im copypasting it too, starting to think im dum

im only doing the dance n sectec one

[tribal blade]

ah ok

that one works fine for me

are you sure you have enough energy when you're casting it

that can happen atm

[torn tide]

yes lol fresh pull

[tribal blade]

oh

i'm trying to think if stance would be an issue here, i don't think so

[tribal blade]

oh do you have that macro on your stance bar

[lilac stag]

Same

[prime raft]

we doing DS or trick now?

[lilac stag]

Are you casting it mid gcd?

[torn tide]

nah lol

[lilac stag]

are you sure?

[torn tide]

yes sarge also damn addons r broken again

[lilac stag]

Try playing without addons as blizzard intended

[hazy breach]

Dont be in stealth
Make sure its on your non-stealth bar

[lilac stag]

don’t spec subterfuge either

[torn tide]

ye im not

[lilac stag]

#subtlety-faq

[torn tide]

yk what fuck it im gonna relog and hope it fixes it

aw man it didnt work

sad

[tribal blade]

try deleting the text and retyping it by hand

i dunno this is a try anything moment

[lilac stag]

in before the macro isn’t actually the one that’s on the bar

Assign it a stupid icon so you know you’ve got the right macro

[torn tide]

im not that stupid

[spare briar]

Ngl I kinda figured out how it goes since I’m level 50 now I have the abilities. I’m just doing shit dps 🤣

[lilac stag]

It’s not a matter of stupidity. Wee are giving you mistakes that have been made. If you don’t want help I’ll fuck right off.

good luck

[prime raft]

ty

[torn tide]

my bad, i thought it was sarcasm cuz of the first part of that message lmao

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade when can I visit the new addition to the house?

[torn tide]

also @lilac stag i am infact that dumb i actually was pressing the wrong one 💀

[tribal blade]

any time!

you can actually see some screenshots if you scroll up

[tribal blade]

HAHAHAHA

classic

[tulip light]

My eyes

This convo ICANT

[tribal blade]

i was gonna suggest moving the macro to another bind

shoulda suggested it earlier

[torn tide]

lmfaoo sorry about that i cant believe this

[lilac stag]

I’m assuming I was right.

[tribal blade]

no worries

[torn tide]

you were im sorry

[tribal blade]

happens all the time

[warm marlin]

how long do yall think they let bubbling wax continue scaling up

[tribal blade]

wait bubbling wax is scaling?

it's a good thing i banked a bunch of stacks

[warm marlin]

let me make sure

it works in sims at least

[hazy breach]

This convo is similiar to one of my guildies who bought a new computer but then had fps issues, people kept asking him if he plugged it into the integrated graphics gard instead of his actual graphic card and he kept saying "no i plugged it into my ass, ofc i didnt". Turns out he did

[torn tide]

i complain about people being dumb at my job over stupid things and i just did it myself

[warm marlin]

pov: people finding out their 144hz monitor was never changed from factory default 60hz for years

[tribal blade]

that's the best part about stupid mistakes is looking back on them in hindsight

[warm marlin]

this is on beta?

[lilac stag]

live

[warm marlin]

i guess i assume itd still work even with level up

[lilac stag]

90 seconds ish

[alpine wraith]

no need to wait for couple weeks we already have those

[tribal blade]

i think i have enough wax in the bank to last until they hotfix it

[warm marlin]

it's hard to tell how good it is since the other temp enchants dont seem to be implemented yet

or i cant get them to work

but it seems good

[lilac stag]

the tooltips in game and details dont match either

[alpine wraith]

remember they used some hidden ap and ilvl scaling with weps

maybe something krangle midway

[lilac stag]

details

game

[warm marlin]

tooltip stuff is probably the ilvl scaling

[hazy breach]

Only way to check is to for somebody to have it in their bag and then level their character

Which im not gonna do

[hollow spear]

Me cringing about something stupid I did 25 years ago

[tribal blade]

i've done so many dumb things in my life it's not funny

[warm marlin]

wax kinda cooking!

[torn tide]

welp thats just life

[tribal blade]

i've had a much crazier past than you guys would expect

[tribal blade]

almost as much as instant poison dope

[vale pine]

yes, wax scales with item level

but wax is not better than oil

so just use mana oil

[lilac stag]

we're talking 90

[warm marlin]

it's probably not better than the 90 mana oils, i just dont think we can sim those yet

[lilac stag]

buff instant poison kekw

[warm marlin]

maybe early tier when your mh is giga ilvl compared to the rest of your gear

[vale pine]

ohh

[hazy breach]

How much dps is that from wax

Like the raw number

[vale pine]

wax might not be worth on 90

[warm marlin]

423 ish

[tribal blade]

@lilac stag where's the stance bar meme

[tribal blade]

amazing

[hazy breach]

+32 crit and +32 haste seems to be worth a bit more than double that so yeah

[torn tide]

damn the memes

[tribal blade]

😉

[warm marlin]

i only put the wax on mh

xd

so its about the same

or, running 1x wax and 1x oil is presumably good when your mh is higher ilvl

[hazy breach]

For some reason the whetstones are giving 4 ap

As in, the new ones

Very strange

[alpine wraith]

did they really forget a 0 again

or maybe made something and it divided

[warm marlin]

does anyone know what the draught of rampant abandon downside is btw

i assume its unusable

ive used it like 4 times now and nothing has happened

[hazy breach]

Sounds like you just move out of the void zone

But who knows

Or its just bugged and doesnt proc

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade

[tribal blade]

oh shit it's changing

[warm marlin]

apparently its supposed to drop pools that silence you while you stand in it but you have plenty of time to move out

otherwise it's just an even more busted version of the power pot

[hazy breach]

You have like, slightly below 2k agility and the pot gives 1.3k

[torn tide]

idk why i dont remember the guy looking like that on the meme

[warm marlin]

nvm dont use that thing

only procs in combat

you do not get a grace period and you drop so many pools I entirely zoned out the training dummy to where there was no space left in melee

[hazy breach]

[lilac stag]

I can’t wait until it ground covers all mechanics.

[hazy breach]

Ok ye lmao its not "the void may extract its toll"

Its "it will do it literally all the time have fun lmao"

[warm marlin]

it also seemed like the silence field was bigger than the ground swirl

i had to run way out of them

[hazy breach]

Ye

Ye that shit is not happening

[warm marlin]

the regular pot is also as balanced as expected

[hazy breach]

Yerp

[warm marlin]

stronger 18 stack prism as a consumable

[hazy breach]

Can you link it so i can add it to my default profile

[warm marlin]

profileset."pot"+=potion=lights_potential
profileset."food"+=food=silvermoon_parade
profileset."flask"+=flask=flask_of_the_shattered_sun

that's crit flask and primary stat food

im assuming they're all max quality

[fleet acorn]

why is this grey ?

[lilac stag]

youre playing deathstalker

[warm marlin]

cloak does not immune the powerpot void pools

unfortunate

[hazy breach]

Ofc

[lilac stag]

bet DK can immune it

[fleet acorn]

nice ty

[lilac stag]

it's like i'm playing Nexus King hahaha

[warm marlin]

think about that extra 1% damage though

worth?

[lilac stag]

HUGE

[keen dome]

I love it

[lilac stag]

KPB lives on

[robust dust]

with BL and ~34% haste i can fit 2 sectec in 2 sd in opener. but its quite close. should i just wait for 3d sd and push my second sectec here or can i send in second sd? (when sending in second sd its not buffed ofc)

[lilac stag]

Are you getting excited to take on the BM Hunter role as LFG Raid leader with a 2 button spec?

[warm marlin]

dk can in fact not immune it, these void pools have incredible power

[keen dome]

That's my secret, @lilac stag

I've always been a 2 button spec

[lilac stag]

RIP DK then.

[lilac stag]

Pretty sure the buffed in 3rd dance is better in opener.

[keen dome]

although not much really changes as Sub with raid leading, which is nice.

[lilac stag]

I got bored. Back to fiddling with ArcUI haha

I think I enjoy the ui design more than anything else atm

[chrome palm]

yeah cloak doesnt work on a lot of things in midnight

i remember it not working on almost anything on the paladin boss, didnt work on anything on last boss magister's terrace, etc

[hollow spear]

So they didn't take away defensives from us, they just make the ones we have not do anything

[torn tide]

welp thats just true simplicity

yo which trinkets are good to use now in prepatch?

[tough mist]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

@keen dome i think i got a winner.

[keen dome]

That looks better than the WA's did

[lilac stag]

dance goes over energy

sblades bar is in icon

[vale pine]

whats the bar that overlays on blades?

[lilac stag]

blades duration

[vale pine]

ahh

interessting

green bar = hp?

[lilac stag]

ye

blue is dance active, purple energy

[prime raft]

this was on my bar lol

[lilac stag]

players with marco issues 🤝 subtlety spec

[hallow matrix]

If sec tec is off cd but dance isn’t, do you send sec tec? Or wait for next dance?

[vale pine]

you wait for dance

you never use secret without it

[hallow matrix]

Okay cool Ty

One last one - sometimes I’ll have it where I’m in blades and my second sectec will come up like half way through the second dance, do I delay do I get it in the empowered combo point (can’t remember the talent name) or just send those two on evis and sectec after (still within dance)?

[lilac stag]

save for 3rd dance

[fleet acorn]

almost done

[lilac stag]

Blades = Dance + ST -> Dance -> Dance + ST

[hallow matrix]

Oh okay, so you’d rather sit on the second sectec for 15 odd seconds in the opener and wait for the third dance with empowered combo points than send it in dance without empowered?

[lilac stag]

you're sitting like 3 seconds depending on haste

[hallow matrix]

From memory it feels like more than that but you’re probably right, I’ll try it next time ty!

[lilac stag]

i'm at 38% haste and i just chain the 3 dances

tfd is extending your first dance cast

[lilac stag]

blue is dance time remaining on 2nd dance. 3rd is already good to go

[upbeat garden]

For raid what is better ?

trick or death ?

[lilac stag]

#subtlety-faq live:ds

[upbeat garden]

Changed my stats again ,seems decent for raid

[prime raft]

where did u get the dance bar from

[torn tide]

what happens when we actually do sectec with dance btw? i know its a must but i dont actually know why

like does the dmg of sectec get buffed after dance?

[warm marlin]

also its a unique spell for danse macabre

[torn tide]

oh damn thats nice

thanks

[hazy breach]

You would think so

Also supercharger, ontop of the things ryldd already mentioned

[void ocean]

energy has to be yellow

so do you guys think this is it regarding UI or should we wait a bit more for some better solutions down the prepatch

[sullen hare]

You can build a perfectly competent UI as is

Any concessions and ripcord pulls are just icing on top

Healers are kinda in shambles right now

So you'll probably see QOL for them but go ahead and set your UI up

[torn tide]

oh the 2 supercharged points

[sullen hare]

Personal favorite two add-ons that I'd classify as necessary are uuh and sensei crb

But other than that maybe danders for party and raid frames plus dominoes and a boss mod, all optional but very useful. What more could you really need outside of accessibility stuff that blizzard really messed up

[lilac stag]

They’re improving each week. They each have flaws but to get a basic setup going it’s easy enough.

[upbeat smelt]

Hmn I like my CP on the target, but maybe I should change to have these bars you guys use, I find myself having a hard time looking down at the buff/bar cooldown stuffs.

[void ocean]

for me CPs on target nameplate are must

[hazy breach]

I dont understand why, its just more inconvenient not having the info in one place all the time, and on big bosses the nameplates end up in the roof and stuff

[lilac stag]

Back in the day the cps stuck on the target

or some other reason

Imagine cps on Dimmy

[hazy breach]

Yeah but thats almost 20 years ago unc

[vale pine]

think you can still set the nameplates at the bottom, but i did not find that comfortable to use

[lilac stag]

You can move them so you’re not looking down so much. It ends up being a common location as you need to watch your feet

[uneven scarab]

^^^

its just useful to have that info closer to the center of your screen, so you’re not looking all over for it

slows you down

[lilac stag]

I try to get as much clearly grouped as I possibly can. Especially with my vision. I’d go nuts trying to play follow the nameplate for cps

[uneven scarab]

yeah same rofl

[lilac stag]

cat chasing a laser pointer

[hallow matrix]

Thanks!

[limber folio]

we love brawlers guild

[dense coyote]

can we pool charged combo points befoer pulls ? or is it worth it or nah ?

[lilac stag]

It doesn’t matter. Strike gives you full cp

[dense coyote]

got it

gues syou are right about that lol

derp lmao im dumb

[lilac stag]

you can cast a dance before pull to store 2 supercharge cps

[dense coyote]

if you get coup de grace a few seconds before dance shows up ... is it a good idea to .... do a black powder or eviscerate instead and then use the coup next with the shadow dance after you get tthat charged combo point ?

[lilac stag]

Likely do nothing. Collect sht stacks. Dance Coup Sectech

[dense coyote]

well if im about to get shadow dance anyways and thats going to give me energy ... why owuldnt i spend the enrgy i already have into a finisher befoer that pops to keep dps up ?

or is ther a delay in the energy generation from shadow dance ?

[lilac stag]

It’s the sht stacks you want. Energy is whatever

[dense coyote]

also i wish they raised the range on sec teq just a little bit

sht stack ?

what does sht stand for ?

[warm marlin]

shadow techniques

[dense coyote]

hmm i have to look up what that is

[warm marlin]

and yes, the energy from dance is given over 3 seconds

you want to enter it with enough energy to immediately cast

[dense coyote]

got yuh

thank you !

[warm marlin]

np happy learning

[void ocean]

which plater profile is recommended

[torn tide]

is tickling sack and araz trinkets good to go together?

[lilac stag]

Jundies is nice. I’d grab Platynator addon and that profile of wago

[void ocean]

why are there so many addons with -nator

[lilac stag]

It’s one developer and it’s a call back to Phineas & Ferb

[bleak night]

they're all made by his addoninator

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/perry-the-platypus-phineas-and-ferb-pnf-dr-doofenshmirtz-perry-gif-26543370

[torn tide]

the creator is secretly dr doofenshmirtz

[finite crow]

i dont get it

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fringe echo]

Who do yall recommend for a build guide for sub? I’ve never played a rogue and going to start a sub rogue soon

[keen dome]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[keen dome]

Any of these. They're all real good resources, so pick your preference. And also asking questions in here.

[fringe echo]

What did yall use to learn the rotation?

[cursive vapor]

the...guides?

[keen dome]

The guides have information on them. And then just practice.

[vale pine]

bp does more damage

so deathstalker becomes rly good with high target counts

[tulip light]

is there a number at which it becomes better?

[torn tide]

dw its really easy now after the rework, youll get it down in about an hour or two honestly

[vale pine]

you can just sim it ^^

it depeneds on talent choices and gear

[tulip light]

ah ok thx!

maybe dumb question but why was trickster the go-to for m+? isnt it equal aoe and DS offering more dmg on bosses? (skipped tww m+ on rogue thats why i am asking)

[placid blade]

nimble flurry went BRRRRRR

[tulip light]

was that because of any tier set interaction?

[vale pine]

nimble flurry cleaved strike and evis, which was noticable more damage in cleave

now they buffed bp and removed this unique aspect of nimble

which means both hero talents play the same, and you don't have rotaitonal impact anymore

[tulip light]

i see. i noticed bp being super strong when i saw that its used at 2 targets already

[vale pine]

storm got buffed too

[hazy breach]

My take is that because of deathstalker being really unpopluar theyve purposefully tuned it slightly lower than trickster

[bleak night]

i'd believe it

tried to "fix" it earlier in the beta, everyone hates it anyway so just nerf and move on until next time

[tulip light]

its was popular in raid tho wasnt it?

[hazy breach]

Between patch 11.0.7 and 11.1 it had 90% playrate on exlucisvely the ST boss, anything with AoE was 90%+ trickster

And outside of that it has almost never been played

[vale pine]

deathstalker was basically only good for one raid

[sullen hare]

and it wasn't even used that whole raid either

[hazy breach]

And that was at the tail end of that raid

For the first 2 months it wasnt

And it was only on pure ST

Which wasnt the hard bosses

[sullen hare]

because playing ds on second to last boss was throwing

literally throwing

[hazy breach]

In undermine no boss has more than 10 deathstalker parses

Like across the entire patch

[sullen hare]

sounds about right

[hazy breach]

Plexus actually has 11 deathstalker parses

Massive

So yeah its been INSANELY unpopular

[chrome palm]

the last time i checked ds parses in manaforge it was 100% buyers on dimensius

and i think there were like 5 total logs in m+ for ds at any key level

[hazy breach]

Even heroic has less than 100 parses

[slate marlin]

ds is just trash gameplay

[sullen hare]

compared to trickster at the time it sure was

no CDR makes them play indistinguishably

especially since you can just macro coup before bp

[vale pine]

I am in the minority but i liked that both had diffrent play styles

[latent finch]

The different playstyle was good. But there was just so many things wrong with ds

[twin quartz]

Tracking mark feels pretty bad in combination with the addon apocalypse

[tame terrace]

i used to color the enemy nameplate that had mark 🙁

and any other singleton debuff that mattered for other specs/classes

[vale pine]

there still are

[vale pine]

midnight sadly removes nameplate coloring for many things

[tame terrace]

[void ocean]

just dont use ds whenever u have more than one nameplate - problem solved xD

[latent finch]

For sure.
But for me its now even worse.
It plays really similar so now i have kinda 2 really similar things just one with a way worse gimmick

[tame terrace]

it was important when i played ds sin in keys

when i was bored

[vale pine]

midnight made a lot of qol changes

to deathstalker

deathstalkers mark is the remaining problem

[tame terrace]

yuh

[void ocean]

i dont understand, why they just dont let it overwrite

well not rly overwrite but more like remove from one target and apply to the other

[austere plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[plain zephyr]

Why won't this macro work? Shadow Dance is grayed out.

[hazy breach]

Are you in stealth, do you have exactly that macro on your bar (your non stealth bar) or is your wow in another language?

[plain zephyr]

damnit.... I was in stealth. I...am...an..idiot.

[bleak night]

[vale pine]

its all fine, its a non obvious interaction

blizz added this restriction in legion, mainly to fix pvp problems

[plain zephyr]

Thank you all ❤️

[errant totem]

Why did we get aoe blind removed?

[hazy breach]

Fwiw it still works, they forgot to delete the functionality, they just deleted the bit on the tooltip

But presumably that will get fixed

[errant totem]

No love for us rogues

[tulip light]

fix the tooltip or fix the aoe component LUL

[grand wyvern]

yes

[chrome palm]

lets just stop talking about it 😇

maybe theyll forget about it

[neon escarp]

hey guys a question about Danse Macabre, am i using Backstab and SS for procs ?

[open timber]

It looks like we don't play around danse macabre anymore. I came for that same question.

[neon escarp]

i imported the buld from the faq so was wondering

[open timber]

However, I'm wondering. I have muscle memory of SD -> BS from TWW. Is it a dps-loss to use BS for Danse or can I keep the muscle memory going?

[hazy breach]

Yes its a loss to use backstab

[icy tinsel]

can someone esplain why the backstab shadowstirke macro wont work?

does it need to be on my stealth bar in same spot also? im assuming

[sick basin]

What macro do you need for bs/ss?

[tulip light]

#showtooltip
/cast [stance:0] Backstab
/cast [stance:1] Shadowstrike
/cast [stance:2] Shadowstrike

should work fine - make sure its on the same slot on every bar if u change bars

[latent rune]

rogue best spec for m+ sub or assassin ?

[boreal robin]

🤷‍♀️ outlaw is very good too

[sick basin]

What is this for?

[latent rune]

i not have sword sub better or assasin 😄 ?

[tulip light]

backstab / shadowstrike in one button depending no stance (normal / stealth / dance)

[sick basin]

Doesn't it just do that on its own?

[hazy breach]

It does not no

[sick basin]

Oh maybe if you don't have it on a stealth bar

And I'm just being carried by elv

[tulip light]

i use bartender w/o stealth bar

[sick basin]

Elvui has the stealth bar so it's just done this for me lol ignore me

[twin quartz]

Since we can bind coup/black powder together now, goes the override functionality work if you use a shadowstrike/backstab macro or do you still need to wait for stealth stance

[hazy breach]

We could do that macro before as well, its not a new thing

It only works because you dont know coup de grace until you have 4 stacks of escalating blade

[twin quartz]

Ahh I figured maybe some basic macro functionality changed

[hazy breach]

I also wouldnt recommend to macro it

[twin quartz]

Yeah, I don’t personally

[sick basin]

You want to try and hold coup for dance no?

[hazy breach]

Correct

[latent finch]

Eleem do you know the % from holding vs just macro/using coup on cd is?

[radiant swift]

which macro ?

the backstab/sstrike or coup and bp

sry couldnt fully follow

[south shuttle]

I would also like to know

[hazy breach]

The bp/coup one

[south shuttle]

oh tyty

[tulip light]

i asked about that a few days ago but couldnt quite figure it - regarding coup inside dance and supercharging it - i think you said its the same damage charging it vs not charging it eleem iirc?

[radiant swift]

do u not bind them so u can hold coup for dance + blades?

[tepid trellis]

Its the same as a charged normal evis

[tulip light]

what does that mean?

[tepid trellis]

Supercharge coup = supercharge regular evis

It does the same so it doesent matter

Only thing to Care about is supercharge sectech

[tulip light]

is that intended? isnt coup supposed to do way more damage than an evis?

[tepid trellis]

Coup is just a 3 hit evis

[tulip light]

the "5 additional combo points" confuse me

[hazy breach]

Yes, supercharger is +3 combo points. Coup is a 12 cp eviscerate

So the +3 in 7+3 is the same as 12+3

[tepid trellis]

Linear scaling on the dmg Per cp

[tulip light]

well ok one less thing to worry about then

and i will remove coup from bp i guess to hold it for dance if thats all we care about 👍

[radiant swift]

do you hold a coup for every dance?

[hazy breach]

Not if the dance is far away

But you dont want to use coup like 2 seconds before dance

[tulip light]

was triggering me anyways if i spamm bp and my target is not in range the coup doesnt go off and i afk till i notice xd

[radiant swift]

oh is that the reason, theres sometimes this "delay"

i was wondering

[tulip light]

i guess. i was wondering as well until i noticed

[neon stump]

anyone have a posion reminder addon yet? bcccccc went all of mythic past 2 weeks forget tin apply them lmaoooooooooooooo

[tender dust]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/buffreminders

[limber cliff]

Easy reminders is what I use

[neon stump]

appreciate it

[open timber]

instant poison was 0.4% of my damage in my last M+. Kinda makes me want to apply two non-lethals

[tepid trellis]

Gl

[tulip light]

does Perfidious Projector use not show in logs? or is there any reason not to use it ?

[alpine wraith]

it shows

[tulip light]

im going over some pre patch logs and most dont press it seems like . is there any reason? example: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fn8tFAWzcbkBXpL1?fight=35&type=casts&view=timeline&source=11

[alpine wraith]

no idea why or actually

will check a log of mine and see

maybe you need to be the logger

like other weird shit

[radiant swift]

is dslice working for rogues or do u sim aoe with 5m5t?

[alpine wraith]

slice should be fine to compare gear

[radiant swift]

tyvm

[alpine wraith]

mine shows if it is my log

[abstract crest]

Hello,after long break returing to wow, which rogue is gonna be the best in m+? (For pushing high keys?) Thanks.

[hazy breach]

Nobody has any idea

They constantly change things before release of the raid, and after as well

[neon stump]

i see on wowhead top 2 trinkets are screams and sack of terror but the raid logs are showing araz forge as the top trinket ? whats the best 2 to go for the ones on the logs or ones on wowhead?

[abstract crest]

I checked some videos about predictions and everyone has different list . I hope rog will be playable at least

[alpine wraith]

if fights are very short forge is good

you basically dance 3 or 4 times in a row almost with bl

and araz lasts 30 secs

[abstract crest]

Guys how i can move resource display bar or whatever its called. Which shows energy and cp

[lilac stag]

It’s pressed. You can see it in overall dmg, and then under pet dmg.

[tulip light]

thanks @alpine wraith @lilac stag

[icy tinsel]

is it worth playing around ancicent arts on beta?

like before we go into CDS?

[tulip light]

These optimizations are only relevant if you are playing on the Beta as they require the Apex talents :ancientarts:.
To not finish a few seconds before :SecretTechnique: comes up so you have a couple of extra :shadowtechniques: stacks for your :ShadowDance:, so you can trigger more of the last Apex Talent :ancientarts:.
During :ShadowDance:, if you are at full combo points but have 5 or more stacks of :shadowtechniques: cast :ShadowStrike: (yes at full combo points) to trigger :ancientarts:.

from !faq

[plush roost]

You pool for 8-5 seconds before sblades, otherwise u just build finish, no pooling normal dances

Therss optimzations to use strike at 7cp with 5sht stacks to get extra clones

[safe tundra]

how do i cast

secret technique and shadow dance at once

i have a macro and it casts shadow blade + dance + secret technique at once and it works

but for some reason

i cant get the show dance + secret technique one to work

[plush roost]

#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Are u making sure youre not in a gcd

[safe tundra]

im not

for some reason my other macro works fine

[plush roost]

U have a space

[safe tundra]

its just this one that i cant get to work

OH

SHIT

LOL

[plush roost]

Before / cast

[safe tundra]

ty

[plush roost]

Yap

[safe tundra]

hahaha

yea

[plush roost]

Haha

[tribal blade]

i'm stupid, how exactly does that proc extra clones

[plush roost]

evis at 7cp
strike to build
no ancient arts not enough sht
evis (no clone) again
etc

Vs

strike at 7cp
ancient art proc
evis (clone) cp reset
strike again at 7cp
evis (clone) cp reset
Continue

[plush roost]

I hope that makes sense ^

[tribal blade]

MMMM ok yes that makes sense

banger ty

[plush roost]

Youre essentially taking the cp from sht and making evis a psuedo builder while making strike a pseudo buffer

[tribal blade]

apex evis is just that much huh

[plush roost]

Red dot

Is apex evis on a boss

[tribal blade]

oh shit that's a lot

[plush roost]

As u can see, its almost as much as my normal evis

[tribal blade]

it must be hitting harder than regular evis

[plush roost]

Its shadow damage

[tribal blade]

to be that close

nice

[plush roost]

Gets buffed by veiltouched, umbral edge

Bypasses armor

[tribal blade]

yeah we have hella shadow clone dmg modifiers now

[plush roost]

Chaos brand etc

[tribal blade]

so the rule is if you're at 7 CP and 5 sht in dance you strike

[plush roost]

Ye

[tribal blade]

awesome

[plush roost]

Idk if they will fix it since its a hella unintended interaction

But idk how to fix it tbh

[lilac stag]

you are killing my 2 button vibe ~half this discord

[hazy breach]

Almost certain you want to pool for regular dances too

[tribal blade]

you are killing my 2 button vibe

[hazy breach]

Ryldds sims where he doesn't only show as gains on very specific haste values because it allows the sim to fit another sectech sometimes, but at other haste values it doesn't and then it's really bad

Simning is just cursed

[radiant swift]

when u strike for ancient arts, do u also "lose" the sth stacks?

[lilac stag]

we’re still firing coup off first in dance then followed by Sectech, or has ST taken full priority?

[hazy breach]

No

[radiant swift]

damn that seems crazy strong

[plush roost]

Ah so ive been fake news'd

[hazy breach]

Yesnt

Using sectech on CD very important

[warm marlin]

like Eleem said, it's quite a decent gain at certain haste breakpoints and quite a decent loss at others

[warm marlin]

it's also not really the evis interestingly

[hazy breach]

My thought is that pooling is a gain, as long as it never delays your sectech

But sometimes it does in sims, at certain haste values

So removing seems good sometimes in sim

[warm marlin]

the apex thing is only a big gain at all with weaponmaster, it's entirely on the back of shadowstrike doing infinite damage

[lilac stag]

Sectech full on prio number 1 now.

[plush roost]

Im gonna try weaponmaster + ist and drop veil touched in some beta keys today. I have a feeling youre onto something with it being a huge prio gain

[warm marlin]

I didn't run all the big stuff with the aoe build yet

but certainly with the raid build its crazy prio

[plush roost]

That chinese build is fkn nuts at high target counts btw

I did 1100k dps on first pull of skyreach

[lilac stag]

just wait for the Russian tech

[hazy breach]

Think it's mostly skipping haste on gear/trinket, I've looked a lot at pe vs warning signs and I'm just not seeing a world where pe is better

[warm marlin]

if sectec was on charges the cook with waiting for haste procs would go absolutely insane

[plush roost]

Bro it feels so unbelievably bad to not have warning signs

[hazy breach]

The ~2.5% more damage is not worth losing that many combo points for

[warm marlin]

unless they changed it to not snapshot

[hazy breach]

Or well, 2.5% dmg during dance only

[hazy breach]

Ye for sure

But now we do everything to slam it asap instead

[left shale]

which build?

[torn tide]

do u guys think that apex will make sub rogue way better?

[idle aurora]

Sooooooo I didn’t want to like sub…….and after trying all three I’m kinda digging it as my favorite :0

In m+ it’s kinda fun to build and hold a second to slam big cds into a pack

There is a little nuance to it

To squeeze numbers

[plush roost]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Zax4ArvqkJyVMzt6?fight=last&type=damage-done

[lilac stag]

am I blind on mobile, or are there no talents?

[brisk onyx]

it gone on pc too

[bleak night]

insane build

[lilac stag]

new Chinese tech

[brisk onyx]

wcl from beta seems unable to load talent build

[torn tide]

peak

[azure thicket]

wcl hates phones for some reason

[lofty lance]

What are those pools?

[warm marlin]

draught of rampant abandon

[flint umbra]

how do you want to use shadow blades?

whenever its available or only during impactful cd windows?

nvm its basically always up

trying to learn how the spec works now

[lilac stag]

Shadow blades is a 90 second cd. It’s not basically always up

[torn tide]

do we only use shadow blades on bosses or like just whenever the cd is ready and it lines up with ur window

[lilac stag]

You play around supercharging Sectech and having 2 charges of dance to cover shadow blades.

[flint umbra]

sorry i meant shadow dance

feel like the energy is so inconsistant

[uneven scarab]

Use it when u have sectech

Use two dance during blades

[flint umbra]

at some times its perma capped and others im waiting forever to cast anything due to low energy

[warm marlin]

you get like 5x more energy during dance than outside of it by desisgn

[flint umbra]

i see, is there no viable way to take tea?

[uneven scarab]

not really worth it, you do no damage outside of dance

[flint umbra]

ah i see

[uneven scarab]

or well alot less

than inside of it

[flint umbra]

hmm wonder if theres any way to make shadowdance more plentiful, the build i took probably took anything related to it

wait do you have to press slice and dice again?

[fading burrow]

is this talent working?

[brisk onyx]

work for 2 ub, not for cdr(bugged in pre patch)

[fading burrow]

tyvm

[tribal blade]

shouldn't be an issue on the beta and beyond

you'll find tea borderline useless with how much energy and CP we gain

@lilac stag do you feel like taking a sneak peek at the house

[plush roost]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DKqLw9R6mkcFyd27?fight=5&type=damage-done&source=7

anyone able ot confirm for me

the shadow damage portion of shadowstrike is weapon master?

[torn tide]

damn, how are midnight dungeons feeling btw?

[tribal blade]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=1269336/shadowstrike this is the spell ID but dunno how to figure out from here

assume it must be WM

[plush roost]

dungeons them selves are fun, kinda hard on healers tho ngl

[plush roost]

okidoki i kinda did too but im a confirmation kinda guy

[torn tide]

how so?

also if its hard on healers then i wish my holy priest the best of luck

[tribal blade]

not sure if apex strikes are thrown in there too

[neon frigate]

Hey guys quick question. Raidbots is not working properly. What would be the better weapon as main for me as sub rogue:

The everforged stabber or Gene splicer maxed out?

[plush roost]

highest Ilvl mainhand, offhand can be stabber

[neon frigate]

and what about astral antenna mythic vs seaforium?

[tribal blade]

antenna will be better if you're getting most of the orbs

if you're missing a lot of orbs pacemaker will be better

[neon frigate]

so in general would you recommend the astral antenna for sub rogue if ur an above average player?

[tribal blade]

for most content probably

before people wouldn't run antenna on nexus king and dimmy because the miss rate was so high, but looks now much more popular than pacemaker

[keen dome]

Also you get a cute little moth on your head during it, that's important.

[static ocean]

Maybe a dumb question but do we cast coupe de grace during shadow dance on lets say 5-6 targets, or just spam black powdaa?

[brisk onyx]

cast coup always

[static ocean]

Thank you !

[spiral helm]

Im fresh 80 and thanks to the Event + the Reshi thing cape im at ilvl 125 Right now.

I can craft 1 „high“ item (got 1 spark and highest crest).

Wowhead says: bis-craft is neck/wrist. but at current State the dagger should be much better, right?

[brisk onyx]

You are right, wowhead's guide was based on the situation at the time, which was during S3.
You have plenty of time to acquire the "bis-gear," but right now, all you need to do is quickly increase your dps.

[spiral helm]

And weapons Are always highest dps increase?

[vale pine]

if you don't have a max item level dagger

it is the best first craft

if you have a good dagger, it becomes a bad craft

so every new season, the first craft is almost guaranteed a weapon

if you are fresh max level, weapon might be a good craft too

because its your best upgrade

[brisk onyx]

yes the main-hand one is, but the off-hand one is not

[vale pine]

off hand is one of the weakest item slots

so you only need one dagger at a high item level

[spiral helm]

Alright. Should i push the ilvl to 144 (Champion fully upgraded) or just wait for a Hero dagger

[soft ferry]

Is sub easier to play now in prepatch or still a case of messing up a dance window = 0 dps?

[lilac stag]

It’s more forgiving. If you fuck up it is still going to be painful

[fast vigil]

is there a way to add find weakness to dafualt nameplates debuff tracker? or anywhere for that matter

[alpine wraith]

find weakness is a buff on you now

just move it where you can see it on the buff thingy

[fast vigil]

good shout, never noticed, ty. still would be nice to have it in in the cooldown manager buff tacker imo

[lilac stag]

It’s always up, not really with thinking about

but bliz snd buffs are in a bad spot right now with cdm

[gritty perch]

is it ok to have a dagger main hand and other offhand? (mace/sword) or should you always run 2x daggers?

[lilac stag]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[gritty perch]

thank you!