subtlety

[iron whale]

true

I literally

I am not even kidding, I haven't seen a single sub rogue around

I MEAN TBH, not even a single rogue

and I play in the most populated EU server

we're going thinner than Evokers here

[placid elk]

where are the people saying "we got 2 more months bro just wait its gonna be good"

[river coral]

were there any undocumented bug fixes atleast?

[wild vine]

It will then just get aura buffed

Doesnt help with anything

[vale pine]

buff all rogue specs

easy

[wild vine]

If anything, having it being really good so the gameplay gets more attention by the community would maybe help

[red vortex]

1 documented from fatebound

Iirc

[placid elk]

what do you prefer?
engaging gameplay with decent tuning
vs
boring gameplay with gigabuffed tuning?

[iron whale]

do you guys really just don't care about visuals btw?

[vale pine]

i mean i am in the minortiy going from discussion in here and in the sub midnigth channel

i like gameplay depth

[river coral]

wtf are these ppl recieving a paycheck for?

[vale pine]

and blizz removed a lot that added depth

many refer to it as unessecery bloat

or redundant

[red vortex]

I liked the bloat

On all 3 specs

[placid elk]

yep. i remember spending days to master opener during some patches, it was super fun.

[cerulean beacon]

i think a lot of people reached a breaking point with the class, a bit maybe. midnight killed sub for me personally - the spec had issues with how it was designed but erasing it all to make it a 3 button spec was not the way to go tbh.

What’s the reason to bring a sub into any group? Let’s assume the tuning makes sub land in the middle of the pack. Who would pick this over literally any other dps with raid buffs and more utility? Sub at least had a ton of depth and insane levels of skill expression allowing for truly the highest burst, now it’s mostly gone

[vale pine]

just out of my head, all these talents got chanegd to have no or lower gameplay impact anymore:
Secret Technique(1), Shadow Dance(2), Symbols of Death(4), Rupture(5), Flagellation(6), Nimble Flurry(7), Shuriken Tornado(8), Backatsb/Strike(9), Thistle tea(10), Fianllity(11), Dance Macabre(12), Cold Blood(13), Death Perception(14), Rotten(15), Replicating Shadows(16), Improved Ambush(17)

you could add more hero talent stuff to it, especially a lot of deathstalker, but i would lable them as qol updates

There are also new things added, mainly shadow dance was changed from having cdr to extended duration based on haste (and apex)

apex talents, which mainly increase your combo point income and give you shadowcart refunds back, which prior ended up part of shadowcraft itself

The bottom line is, there was a lot of effort put into removing gameplay impact, and only a few new things got added

there is also still a lot of complexity left in talents, even tho that does not mean there is a big gameplay impact

this logically means, you don't have as much opportunities to find optimizations, and there is in general a decrease in agency/dynamic.

It isn't a bad change, its just a dramatically diffrent game now, and there are just new standards. We will see how these new ones appeal to existing players and just how much they improve the game for new ones

[lilac stag]

I love how people seem to think this is exclusive to rogue.

Go play something else. Come back or don’t. The game has changed significantly going into midnight. If it’s not enjoyable stop playing.

[boreal robin]

hey where are the macros?

for the burst

[lilac stag]

#subtlety-faq

[vale pine]

I don't think its that simple

Midnight does not only change gameplay, it re-designs content, addons, etc

I don't think its easy to judge before seeing the complete picture

[lilac stag]

That would be the ^significant* part

[vale pine]

like, if we go from pre patch

just experience wise

[lilac stag]

People losing it over prepatch. Season 1 gonna be rough as well

[vale pine]

wow would be down to only the most nerdy hardcore fans

because just objectively seen

the amount of problems, not only in gameplay or addons, but in quality of service are so bad, no sane person would stick with the product

[lilac stag]

I’m got my hand over the cancel subscription just due to accessibility. So it really is that easy. You can quit.

The sooner you come to terms that your 4D chess specs are gone, the sooner you can see if there’s anything you still enjoy and if it’s worth it

[vale pine]

my point is, we are currently in a transition phase between the old and new standard

[lilac stag]

Judging everything on prepatch gaming is certainly a take. Not a good one, but that’s never stopped anyone.

Negative social media posts / vids get more traction anyways

[vale pine]

and given that:

• Gameplay is incomplete (missing apex, no content thats designed around the new standard)
• Addon api's are incomplete, and the entire addon economy is reset (takes time to re-build)
• Performance and quality control problems (potentially due to the massive amount of changes, but could very well be because of a lack of quality)
• ...

[lilac stag]

The bugs being so numerous last 2-3 tiers def adds a dark cloud to all of it

[vale pine]

You probably need to wait for Midnight to release and give it a month or so to stabalize before you understand and experienced the new system enough to make a decision

[lilac stag]

The .5 patch likely

[tight sequoia]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-coffin-meme-rip-gif-16909625

[vale pine]

or well, you can make a decision at any time, but i think the majority just waits and sees like that

[lilac stag]

What is that 6-8 weeks into release?

[tight sequoia]

Whens the first raid poppin after release

[vale pine]

release cylce ended up 6 months

[tight sequoia]

2 weeks hm

[vale pine]

33% 10.0
33% 10.5
33% 10.7

[tight sequoia]

We have 2 weeks to fully submerge into the game chances before raid pops off

[lilac stag]

The 12.0.5 I’m talking about

[vale pine]

so assumption is 8 weeks per patch

oh ye

i should have wrote x.0, x.5 and x.7

[tight sequoia]

And 3 weeks until raid 2 of s1

Damn weird

[vale pine]

I think the raid split has a diffrent purpose

[lilac stag]

They nailed housing for the most part. Eventually we have to see what goes live with raid

[vale pine]

and we will likely only see it for the first tier

[lilac stag]

S2 I think is where people will feel better about the specs

[vale pine]

possible

[tight sequoia]

Splitting raid has the potential to lower hype for rwf

[vale pine]

my theory is, that the first raid is more a testing ground

[tight sequoia]

Imagine its a 36 hour raid for first wing and we just afk for 5-6 days for last 2 bosses

[vale pine]

so having it split allows for more time to tune sections

[lilac stag]

Nah. Just means they can do different splits including some mythic with boss schedule

[tight sequoia]

Yea but splits and waiting is the death of viewership

[vale pine]

because realistically, so much change and simplification makes it incredibly difficult to make a raid that

meets the expectations set by blizz

which means

[tight sequoia]

Think ffxiv ultimate raids

[vale pine]

"overall difficulty on par with current raids"

[mighty citrus]

we are used to adapt to the weirdest shit since years rotationalwise, which made the spec plays kinda scuffed. i dont see simplifing things can be the reason for somebody to enjoy the game or not. isnt it more about world and raiddesign, dungeons etc? not about the buttons we press in the end? this again is artificial elitism, mostly kicked off by people who couldnt even handle the "more complex" rotations in an raid environment

[tight sequoia]

Incredibly complex puzzle mechanics with very clear mechanics that are very hard to learn

[vale pine]

it depends

everyone plays the game for diffrent reasons

[tight sequoia]

Ffxiv classes are so simple bm hunter is seen as hard there

[vale pine]

the thing is

ffxiv from what i was told

[mighty citrus]

so having rupture or not can be a gamebreaker? if that is the case, people should not play games like wow 😄

[vale pine]

released a simialr simplification xpac/patch more recently

[tight sequoia]

But the ultimate raids are literally weeks long (sometimes) 16 hour days with 5-6 phases of complex changing mechanics

Ffxiv released the simplication patch recently and the overall gameplay was butchered ngl

[dusk hamlet]

Is sub easier to play since pre-patch? and how does it compare to other specs?

[tight sequoia]

Not very many people actually liked it

@dusk hamlet dance build spend

[vale pine]

and it was overall a net negative to the game, with from what i was told quite a fallout of players

[tight sequoia]

Repeat

[lilac stag]

People will enjoy the new outlaw. The vocal majority in the outlaw channel won’t because it changed. Same can be said about sub.

[tight sequoia]

The thing was ffxiv had very complex classes and very easy ones balanced out

Now theyre all easy

[vale pine]

i mean, in the end its an rpg

[dusk hamlet]

Trying to get into rogue but trying to work out which spec will give me the best perf with the least learning curve initially lol

[tight sequoia]

So it was a massive hit to end game

[lilac stag]

Assa

[vale pine]

even if they remove every button and only make you auto attack

[lilac stag]

It’s the most forgiving

[tight sequoia]

@dusk hamlet ngl bro sub rogue currently has the learning curve of a carpet

[vale pine]

you still have the core mechanism of an rpg

which is story

[tight sequoia]

Story isnt the current reason of wow

[vale pine]

and tbh, wow is fairly mid or below mid in terms of that

[dusk hamlet]

Probably lol - I'm used to furry warrior where press button that glows

[tight sequoia]

Wow had an insane story before

[dusk hamlet]

need to actually somewhat think what i'm spending on with combo points

[tight sequoia]

But slowly the game molded into end game chasing

Optimization

Addins

Kitchen sink

Story wasnt the point , is the raid fun , am i having fun doing end game content, and what do i have to do to stay relevant

[vale pine]

wow never had an insane story

warcraft 3 had it

[lilac stag]

Assa is strict cd timings. Get dots up. Press envenom a lot.

Sub is short cds, that you’re trying to stack and you need some focus on when to align them. You have 2 builders / 2 spenders.

Outlaw is the highest APM, mostly builder spender with a flatter damage profile.

[vale pine]

it was basically the outstanding feature of wc3 that seperated it from other rts

[tight sequoia]

They stripped down requirements to stay relevant last expac , they are stripping class ingenuity , and if the raid is a failure the fall out will be worse then anything weve seen

[lilac stag]

To me subs current pacing feels like s3 fury, but with burst.

Outlaw would be more traditional fury

[tight sequoia]

The raids have to built in a puzzle way now

They have no choice

No more addons telling you to stand on point a

[vale pine]

can have a human tell you now ^^

[tight sequoia]

But “ what do these mechanics mean “

[lilac stag]

You can have an addon tell you to goto a marker still

[mighty citrus]

thats a lot of ifs right? tww raids were fine imo. even raids before were okay as well. when i look back, there were only a few raids which i did not like. most of them were good

[tight sequoia]

Ima be honest man

The raids in wow suck in terms of puzzle mechanics

[mighty citrus]

does the majority want puzzels?

[tight sequoia]

The raids were built to combat addons

So they werent puzzle nature

[lilac stag]

No screw puzzles lol

[vale pine]

i don't think midnight raids will excite you

[tight sequoia]

Puzzle mechanics in my opinion are the most fun a raid can be

[mighty citrus]

i wanna beat the shit out of a boss 😄

[vale pine]

the boss mechanics seem overall simpler

and there is still 20 man in a raid

[lilac stag]

Enjoy FF then

[vale pine]

so you absolutely can't make super intricate puzzles

[tight sequoia]

I agree it wont be intricate but what will be the selling point of raids if 1. Classes are stripped down , 2. Healing is nerfed (less dmg going out ) 3. Raids become simpler

[lilac stag]

wow raiding has never been about puzzle solving unless you do the meta quests for the raid achievement / mount

[tight sequoia]

Wow raids used to be pretty cool

[vale pine]

raid design also changes a lot

[mighty citrus]

this opens the door to new players i think

which it is about

getting into wow with no xp and want to raid properly

was very difficult

[vale pine]

e.g. legion had a lot of soak and pass/fail mechanics

blizz officially stated they won't do many pass fail mechanics anymore because its bad design

last 2 xpacs are full of pass/fail mechanics

[tight sequoia]

Hmm i would say they will have to balance the dps checks very harshly

While making mechanics tough( not impossible) to maintain uptime in

[vale pine]

i am not talking dps checks

[tight sequoia]

This allows heroic raids to be simple

[vale pine]

but mechanics where one individual mistake is fatal to the raid

[tight sequoia]

Thats alot of mythic raids currently no ?

[vale pine]

the later bosses typically yes

[tight sequoia]

If an important mechanic is failed in a mid level + boss its usually cookdd

[vale pine]

it is part of the difficulty

having 20 man who don't fail these checks

[tight sequoia]

They could introduce dps dampener mechanics

[vale pine]

and they are sometimes quite tight

[tight sequoia]

One thing i like about ff is theyll let you hit enrage but if you die and get rezzed or fail a mechanic you lose main stat

But that would be a nightmare to balance for em

Theyre already struggling balancing dmg as is

[vale pine]

the best feature of ff, you could import to wow is checkpoints on bosses

[mighty citrus]

one question, did you raid mythic on a ce level recently in wow?

[tight sequoia]

Checkpoints ? You mean door bosses or queuing system

[vagrant fulcrum]

to be fair death is functionally the same in wow too, losing all your buffs / stacks etc does functionally translate to x% less dmg

[vale pine]

so you don't need to do the first 8 minutes of a boss over and over

[lilac stag]

Nexus King was a banger of a fight. The visuals just needed to be better and that was all sorts of pass/fail checks

[tight sequoia]

@mighty citrus i was top 100 in tww season 3

NA

Raided holy paladin

[vagrant fulcrum]

and even with resses if the check is tight you will fail it from deaths

[mighty citrus]

i see

[tight sequoia]

@vagrant fulcrum the dps loss in ffxiv is pretty much youre done for

[vale pine]

game design is just not easy

[tight sequoia]

Its not

[vagrant fulcrum]

like a HARD wipe ye?

iirc that game has serious dps checks and a few dps bring global dmg amps for their group

[tight sequoia]

Like a massive amount of players are stuck at 0.1-5% enrage on a current boss this raid

Came out a few weeks ago

[vagrant fulcrum]

im guessing they can't out-gear it

[tight sequoia]

They can now

[vagrant fulcrum]

or are they still progressing gear

[tight sequoia]

But not possible early

[lilac stag]

This explains why you’re upset.

[vale pine]

ultimate has no gear progression

[tight sequoia]

The majority of high level dps gear is trapped behind the last 2 bosses

Sorry i was talking about rhe current savage raid

Ultimate is just if you fk up we all die and have to do this 16 minute fight agaib

[vagrant fulcrum]

ultimate sounds like mythic penultimate/end bosses

[tight sequoia]

Its like dimensius combined with 5 other last bosses

Its hit or miss how difficult they are

[vagrant fulcrum]

I've heard it's harder but then I'd retort that passing a check with 8 people is a lot easier than with 20 morons

[tight sequoia]

Some take weeks some take days

I would say the hardest in history of ff is the dragon saga boss

6 phases with time dilation mechanics and memorization patterns from 10 minutes ago

Nothing id expect wow to do

[vagrant fulcrum]

for me the combat in ff just didn't feel as responsive as WoW when I tried it a while back, maybe I shoulda played a caster though

[tight sequoia]

Im just hoping the raid will be fun now that classes arent really “ fun “

@vagrant fulcrum your ping sucked probably

[mighty citrus]

mostly its about being concentrated for 20 minutes. i did dragonsong ultimate back then and the mechanics were not tooooo crazy, but you really needed to be awake to pass all that.

[tight sequoia]

20 ping is a requirement

[lilac stag]

sorry rather watch Netflix while reclearing

[tight sequoia]

So if you dont have 20 ping you download something that fakes your 20 ping for you

[vagrant fulcrum]

I suspect it mighta been my pc back then, it was overheating to shit from ff which is ultimately why I put the game on hold - might retry it in s1 midnight off-season

[tight sequoia]

I think forgeweaver last raid was a great balance of puzzle mechanics / team work / dps check

[vale pine]

combat is one of the weak points of FF

[tight sequoia]

@vagrant fulcrum next ultimate is coming

[vale pine]

it is why a lot of players who tested it did come back to wow fast

[mighty citrus]

i think all of it is fine to exist, but wow is wow and ff is ff right

[vale pine]

but wow combat got worse now too

[tight sequoia]

@vale pine gotta play a hard class

[vale pine]

sooo

[mighty citrus]

i play wow over ff for a reason so yeah

[tight sequoia]

Which they mostly butchered lol

Samurai is still a 7 minute rotation loop but

[vagrant fulcrum]

issue with it is getting to endgame takes infinite time iirc, I remember a friend of mine had like 200 hrs on main quest and still hadn't finished it / granted he watched cutscenes

I'd need wow to be quiet to play ff i think

[tight sequoia]

@vagrant fulcrum i paid for that shit i aint doing 400 hours of story

[lilac stag]

Same. and if it’s to the point I lose enjoyment or physically can’t because of accessibility I’ll be sad, but I’ll survive.

[vagrant fulcrum]

based

[tight sequoia]

25 dollars or 500 hours of cutscenes

Pick your poison

[mighty citrus]

speak with wuklamat

😄

[tight sequoia]

Well tbh i feel like if you frankesteined the top 3 rpgs together and picked the best from each

It would be an insane mmo

[mighty citrus]

and thats exactly what i would not want to exist

i want to choose

[tight sequoia]

You can choose

But the best wins

[mighty citrus]

and in terms of numbers wow wins i guess

[vagrant fulcrum]

all I remember is the bunny ears chick

[tight sequoia]

Yea ffxiv recent expansion literally blew up the game

[vagrant fulcrum]

heck did she even have bunny ears

[tight sequoia]

Shiii they hot ngl

[mighty citrus]

why not the blind priest girl

[tight sequoia]

https://tenor.com/view/viera-thinking-ffxiv-viera-viera-final-fantasy-xiv-final-fantasy-14-gif-5376638786452081023

[mighty citrus]

which left being a priest

[tight sequoia]

Real end game of ff is mogs anyway

[vagrant fulcrum]

this chick

[mighty citrus]

erp

[tight sequoia]

They kinda nasty over there

[mighty citrus]

and nasty is the nice word

[tight sequoia]

Oh das a cat girl bro

[mighty citrus]

some would say with mods and shit

people go full ham

[tight sequoia]

https://tenor.com/view/miya-miqo-miqote-catgirl-cat-girl-gif-13693258567582058089

Mods are 100% unregulated in ff

You can do legit anything

[mighty citrus]

if you play ff and join any discord

you will see dicks

on dudes and chicks

wether you want or not

[tight sequoia]

Well heres to hoping wow doesnt die

[mighty citrus]

it wont

[tight sequoia]

Wow playerbase was falling slowly

[mighty citrus]

cause we are all addicts

[tight sequoia]

If this is a bust

Ittl just die like gw2 and ff

[vestal escarp]

I wouldn't know how to take statements on the game state in the discord of the least played class in the channel of the least played spec

[tight sequoia]

You act like every class aint the same now

Just use different icons on the bm hunter priority list

Or ret paladin list and its da same

[vestal escarp]

Im not talking about that at all

[vale pine]

what is the discussion?

i lost the point

[mighty citrus]

its fine

no need to get back to it 😄

[tight sequoia]

No plint

40 days till raid comes out

[lilac stag]

Subs when up from 2024 to 2025

they have enough going between retail, classic, hardcore

[tight sequoia]

Bro i played holy pala last raid man

Yall subs so annoying

Why i gotta using BOS on yall

[lilac stag]

poor you

[tight sequoia]

Erhm can you please use BOS at exactly 3:19 so i line up my burst

[lilac stag]

Why do I have to listen how much better FF is?

just part of life today I guess

[mighty citrus]

(when its not :D)

[lilac stag]

bro doesn’t like the teamwork aspect of wow raiding.

[tight sequoia]

There is no team work in wow da fuq

[lilac stag]

What the rogue is supposed to press BoS for you at 3:19?

[tight sequoia]

Thats not team work thats feeding da baby

[lilac stag]

That’s called killing the adds for a dps check

[tight sequoia]

We were hitting that check either way

Its just for parsing

[mighty citrus]

nice

most of players didnt

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/go-tracy-gif-6014453689039639538

[mighty citrus]

and here we are again at unnecessary elitism

which perfectly verifies my point about that there is no problem for most of people making things easier

only for a few "chosen ones"

[lilac stag]

guess the hpal discord didn’t have enough to complain about with this, so they’re spreading love here.

[tight sequoia]

Naw i quit hpal when dimmy died

[lilac stag]

so you weren’t even doing BoS after the first kill then

[tight sequoia]

I only did the first kill

We got first kill guild had drama i left

[lilac stag]

Can’t imagine why

[tight sequoia]

All this drama just for top 100

Not worth

[alpine wraith]

someone got back from vacation and decided to nuke everything

[void ocean]

they asked Copilot to get rid of all bugs

it deleted hpal

[azure thicket]

idk class identity is kinda like graffiti nothing wrong with reverting stuff if the spirit of the design gets lost

[lilac stag]

unless no one wanted what they came from.

[void ocean]

sub rogue class identity is now respecing to outlaw

tho we still dont have the numbers, right?

[lilac stag]

I’ll enjoy my short burst windows.

[void ocean]

title of ur sextape

[lilac stag]

Non stop dancing?

Your GF loved it

want to see the tape?

🫶

[void ocean]

https://giphy.com/gifs/mrw-sub-browse-lIU7yoG72gyhq

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/unspeakable-violence-unspeakable-violence-gif-25206571

[void ocean]

i actually fckin reconsidered the retirement, and coming back to raid in Midnight, but just cant make myself finding all the fckin addons

weak aura loss was just too big

[lilac stag]

Let it settle

[azure thicket]

is kinda like this but ye how you shape the words that spell bleach or define hpal etc

[plush roost]

Just wait till midnight 1 week before raid

[azure thicket]

https://cdn.80.lv/api/upload/post/3936/images/5d2c9793c4939/widen_2440x0.jpg

[plush roost]

Addons will be fixdd

[lilac stag]

You only really need CDM and nameplates

[plush roost]

Elvui will work, everyone will have a better cdm.

[azure thicket]

apex talents

[plush roost]

A resource bar

[lilac stag]

but also if you got out? Good on you

[plush roost]

Wow your UI is set

[void ocean]

yea but actually no, id anyway lose a lot of QoL was which i was writing for myself

[white scaffold]

Hey all, i am currently almost exclusively playing Assa, but want to poke my head into Sub, how important are the stats? Since all my gear is currently tuned for Assa... I can craft rings and belt if needed. Happy for advice/info

[void ocean]

silly example but WA warnings that my big cds will be off cd in like 10sec

dunno how to get that one

[azure thicket]

npcs in range counter bleed tracker for assassin and the talent to rapidly cooldown stuff out of combat for outlaw

s'fine enough

[lilac stag]

I still don’t know what it’s going to be like for me without the audio WA’s. I get it.

[plush roost]

Im pretty sure the cdm has an audio reminder feature for essential cooldowns

[boreal robin]

hey is any of subs abiltys phys? run phys comp with hates and wonded if i could play it still

[void ocean]

yea i was writing audio warnings as well, found nice ai text to speech tools which id inlude in custom wa audios

[void ocean]

it does but for the exact moment cd expires

[lilac stag]

NK reclears are nightmare fuel. I can’t see shit. Hoping for better visuals in mn.

[void ocean]

which is, i guess the next best thing

[plush roost]

Ah i see that isnt ideal

[azure thicket]

oh and uh trinkets should be able to be tracked in cdm

large flub not being able to isolate those buffs

[plush roost]

Why track when macrod to sblades 8)

[lilac stag]

so should findweakness

[azure thicket]

:b

[lilac stag]

The delay is back on the haste trinket

[plush roost]

So ive heard haha

[void ocean]

also i had like visual progress bar for dance, it helped when i need to connect 2 dances without wasting globals

[lilac stag]

+1 button

[plush roost]

Bro think of the flag delay

To be lime

The flagellation delay

[slate marlin]

Iirc in prepatch you need 30%+ haste for st and 15% roughly for aoe, since we dont have apex talents

[plush roost]

We nevwr lost flag!!!

[lilac stag]

Accurate

We can use Fuu’s icon replacement

[slate marlin]

The sub faq section should have more details

[mighty citrus]

thats a rich request mate 😄

[lilac stag]

It’s prepatch. It don’t matter. Hit 30-35% haste and call it a day

[azure thicket]

we still have flag what

[slate marlin]

What?

[mighty citrus]

lets minmax for 1min fights

[lilac stag]

Forge and Projector going to do more for you than another 10% haste

[slate marlin]

He asked about stats importance, i told him aproximate values and a place to look for the exact ones

Should have i told him its prepatch, who cares or...?

[lilac stag]

Use dslice would be proper answer for m+

[void ocean]

why are numbers so high

[lilac stag]

my sims want me at 30 there. Not what is stated as a general guide

[mighty citrus]

my bad, read it wrong

sorry mate

[lilac stag]

More globals in dance

[void ocean]

i remember when fdk had similar gameplay, when u wanted like 27% haste for an extra global during pillar

[slate marlin]

It was 25%, the extra 2% was to make it playable for humans

[void ocean]

but 30-35 seems a bit too much

[lilac stag]

We like haste breakpoints

[void ocean]

yea

[slate marlin]

Who is we? Is we among us?

[lilac stag]

There’s no too much. It’s balancing everything out and can you get x amount of extra globals during the time we do our damage

[void ocean]

btw sad thing is if i come back to midnight i wont even consider sub just bc i hate that kind of gameplay

[lilac stag]

I mean it’s basically TWW with the extra cd stacks stripped away.

Outlaw will have its haste points

Assa will just 111111 envenom

[azure thicket]

assa would feel better with 2 kingsbane charges

[void ocean]

yea, if im gonna be autopilot raiding, assa the best

[azure thicket]

you desync based on how fast your tank pulls which feels griefy even for a dot spec

[lilac stag]

So you can AA poisons more?

[void ocean]

true but outlaw always kinda fancied haste

[lilac stag]

No?

[azure thicket]

staring at 30 secs left on dm

AA being ?_?

[lilac stag]

Auto attack all your poison applications

[void ocean]

vers, crit and haste were outlaws bread and butter, what do u mean no 😄

[azure thicket]

oh i was like amp blank lol

[void ocean]

meanwhile we played sub with 0 haste

and i liked it 😄

[azure thicket]

feels lol that most of our changes are in midnight

[white scaffold]

I see, so if haste is okay, I am good.

Thank you very much

[slate marlin]

Thats only bc of the adr gcd changes, before that it was 0% haste

[lilac stag]

You weren’t breakpointingit like they did recently. It was crit vers and avoid mastery

haste wasn’t exactly desired until adr changed

[azure thicket]

also assa doesn't feel that bad in aoe, venomous wounds etc

[lilac stag]

assa feels bad everywhere.

[void ocean]

true, breakpoints are the worst

[lilac stag]

jk assa is assa and is fine

[azure thicket]

ye the apply distance for crimson tempest is a lil low though

[void ocean]

just ask a dk to use grubby hands

[lilac stag]

You all just got used to the unethical range of caustic

[azure thicket]

[lilac stag]

which CDM do we try this morning 🤔

[alpine wraith]

dont worry bp has also some fake range

it hits so far sometimes you dont believe

meanwhile nimble makes you an ass sniffer

[void ocean]

cries in trying to cleave in p1 dimmy

[hazy breach]

Its not one extra global, its ~4

Thats why the number is high

[alpine wraith]

there should be a surrender to madness eternal test

so people could feel my pain of rogue getting shit leggos and having to play that shit

[outer cloak]

Man how come there’s not a singular rogue change with last tuning

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/airplane-first-time-nervous-80s-movies-gif-19769548

[alpine wraith]

the best one is when you see the assa changes and the outlaw ones

and then there is

wait a second

but surely they are fixing bugs in their internal servers because they did fix blades and apex 2 with sec tech

so maybe before second raid sec tech works with apex 1 and 3 on the second clones

so we get 6 sht on cast

on apex

[lilac stag]

Will apex 2 still work?

[alpine wraith]

will it?

only god knows

[azure thicket]

best thing sub is good for in prepatch is making sure other classes always have cds lined up

hit simmed dps in a 19 halls yesterday with a udk and fury warrior lol

[lilac stag]

@azure thicket runny tricky or ds?

[azure thicket]

tricky keep meaning to try ds but played outlaw today

[lilac stag]

was going ask how annoyed you were with mark.

[azure thicket]

gonna open up dead space 3 in a bit and have a fit

i figure exploding permacasters like obliterators might be the play it sounds like more prio than trickster

[alpine wraith]

trickster prio would be closer if the random unseen from storm was on main target

[lilac stag]

“Friction” or something

[tender dust]

Ass sniffer you say

[lilac stag]

@keen dome I think I got the colors where I want them, ended up making my own texture

[nimble agate]

what do u guys use for poison traker ? i mean when u need to refresh the buff

[tender dust]

How do you feel about the yellow cooldown texture

[lilac stag]

not a fan, seeing what options there besides arcui. everything is just missing like 1-2 things

[lilac stag]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/missing-class-buff

@tender dust like cdcentered is nice and simple, but lacking stuff like hiding buffs when not active

[tender dust]

There is a addon that removes the yellow stuff and makes it look like the elvui icons which imo is better

[lilac stag]

yeah there's a number of ways to do it, including masque

[nimble agate]

Thanks !

[lilac stag]

it does this. you can set the warning time

if you play alts its nice for the group buffs as well

[upbeat smelt]

So coming back to wow, haven't played since BFA, I have been playing for about 4 or 5 months. I really like what they did to crafting. And I'm trying to choose between leather working and blacksmithing.

I'm thinking that they're working is going to be more useful in the long run, easier to farm since everybody is going to be going nuts for nodes.

But in the end finding two weapons at the highest level is probably going to be the most important for my DPS.

[lilac stag]

well the nice thing is you can get crafts from anyone on your server

[upbeat smelt]

I mostly going to be playing solo I don't really have any friends right now that play so focusing on delves and m+

[lilac stag]

alchemy is the only thing to my knowledge that still has benefits in pve

[upbeat smelt]

The extra healing from potions?

[lilac stag]

try to find a m+ guild or you can use /trade to find crafters. you can also level an alt for one or both of those and send to your alt

[lilac stag]

flask duration

[hazy breach]

No just longer flasks, but thats just saving money as well

Effectively just 50% cheaper flasks

[lilac stag]

alchemy also usually has a big upfront cost at the start

but tbh they all do

it's an arms race for recipes

[upbeat smelt]

Is the chemistry trinket Good enough to use though?

Close to BIS?

[hazy breach]

You can use it without being an alchemist

But also no

[lilac stag]

i wouldnt base too much of your gear choices on profession equipment

[hazy breach]

Professions only serve to make or save money

[lilac stag]

you would think it makes sense to, but it doesnt

[upbeat smelt]

Hmn lol now you got me more lost

But I was thinking about alchemy when I was going to main assassination

[lilac stag]

enchanting is nice for disencanting gear as you replace it, engineering has some fun toys and repair options. alchemy has longer flasks. everything else is just to make money

[upbeat smelt]

All right cool I really appreciate the feedback

[azure thicket]

the knockback on the engineering belt is more tank oriented but always wanted to run it

[lilac stag]

if something speaks to you, run with it. i like seeing my crafters name on my dagger (which i'm now not using)

[lilac stag]

rocket fuel for running

[void ocean]

cause you werent there when those crafts costed like 50k, son

still remember those 33% chance for R5

[azure thicket]

saw one rogue with the auto healing potion in the top 100 parses for some raid boss in s2 tbh

[lilac stag]

guess what they'll cost in 5 weeks

[void ocean]

10k per craft

and then it goes to proc in the 8th turn

cause Blizz and statistics

[lilac stag]

they did a better job with concentration, the alt army shit needs to go

which idk if that's possible or not

[north schooner]

warband wide concentration

[red vortex]

[void ocean]

its actually shame we lost rupture wth all this haste now 😄

[upbeat smelt]

Yeah I did that. Also like the idea of being able to come up with swords and daggers if I want to play outlaw ever. Just that I know that weapons lots upgrade s are more important for DPS, and I'm thinking about all this gear I can get from the vault or mplus or delve, just not getting the weapons drops that I need.

I'm also not rolling on the dough so I don't know how much buying I'll be able to do in the end game

[void ocean]

i mean if u find a guild with crafters, probably just mats

and mats are way cheaper now

[lilac stag]

in gneral best piece of adivce is try to find a new to wow or social m+guild

it just opens up resources to you

[void ocean]

also token is like 400k+ gold so...

sell one and ud be good for the expansion i guess

[lilac stag]

You can also change them around. Like go herbing and disenchanting while leveling. Save or sell mats. Etc

Or mining and whatever

[upbeat smelt]

Yeah that's true but you do lose all progression right when you change professions?

[lilac stag]

you do, but it also wont matter if you're changing permanently to something else

[sinful plinth]

Hello guys noob question. Im learning Sublety in beta and idk which ability goes 1st and which 2nd between secret technique and shadow dance

[upbeat smelt]

True

[upbeat smelt]

Check out the SUB FAQ pinned here. But is dance first.

Also looks like making a macro is the way to go.

[sinful plinth]

thx u buddy!

[lilac stag]

Shadow dance and then secret. #subtlety-faq

[sinful plinth]

[upbeat smelt]

So quick question can weapons have both enchants and embellishments?

[lilac stag]

Weapons can be enchanted, have mana oils / attack power stones & poisons

[upbeat smelt]

But like this for example done while crafting, he can still have its own enchant and all the other stuff?

[vestal adder]

Looking at MMO-Champion, it was put back in in the newest beat build

[void ocean]

a what?

[hazy breach]

Certainly was not

[vestal adder]

Rogue (Forums)
Rupture Finishing move that tears open the target, dealing Bleed damage over time. Lasts longer per combo point. 1 point : [ 134.6% [ 22.4% of Attack Power ] over 8 sec 2 points: [ 201.9% [ 33.7% of Attack Power ] over 12 sec 3 points: [ 269.3% [ 44.9% of Attack Power ] over 16 sec 4 points: [ 336.6% [ 56.1% of Attack Power ] over 20 sec 5 points: [ 403.9% [ 67.3% of Attack Power ] over 24 sec 100 yd range. Instant.
Rupture Finishing move that tears open the target, dealing Bleed damage over time. Lasts longer per combo point. 1 point : [ 134.6% [ 22.4% of Attack Power ] over 8 sec 2 points: [ 201.9% [ 33.7% of Attack Power ] over 12 sec 3 points: [ 269.3% [ 44.9% of Attack Power ] over 16 sec 4 points: [ 336.6% [ 56.1% of Attack Power ] over 20 sec 5 points: [ 403.9% [ 67.3% of Attack Power ] over 24 sec Requires Melee Weapon. 100 yd range. Instant.
Sepsis (Shadow Blades) Awards 3 combo points. Awards 101 combo points.
Sepsis (Shadow Blades) Awards 3 combo points. Awards 101 combo points.

[upbeat smelt]

Also you can't change crafted gear into set pieces right?

[hazy breach]

What part of that makes you think sub is getting rupture back

[lilac stag]

bro be looking at SL notes

[void ocean]

cool, we gettin Sepsis back too

[hazy breach]

They updated the tooltip for assa

This is why datamined stuff is pointless

Look at the blizzard notes instead

[vestal adder]

oh, well it was weird because it shows it under rogues, then shows again under assasination

my bad

[lilac stag]

and wonder where rogue is

[azure thicket]

i figured they don't bother filtering/adding exceptions to spec abilities cause specs already determine usable stuff

shadowblades can technically affect mutilate etc

but y'know

[void ocean]

thats from the Torghast days

[azure thicket]

although maybe if they did they could reduce input delays

[void ocean]

when u could get all cds

[azure thicket]

oh really?

[void ocean]

maybe

[azure thicket]

idk the way it's done stuff that modifies talents can occasionally break

pally bubble taunt comes to mind

why not give prot pal a separate version of bubble as baseline etc

[lilac stag]

Likely yes

the powers were fun and had a lot of overlap at times

[hazy breach]

Because then it will accidently break when they do other changes right

[graceful rock]

Dang I was really looking forward to shadow clone ruptures

[hazy breach]

Like if they want to reduce the duration of bubble, but then they only apply it to the hpala version for example and not the ret/prot

(just like how our shadowed and apex eviscerates are seperate from the regular eviscerate and needs to manually be added, and its almost always forgotten about)

[void ocean]

i guess they didnt hear about inheritance as one of the oop principles

[azure thicket]

ye faster/safer to tweak the talent instead of the base ability

[void ocean]

like just have base class named bubble and then override it as hpal_bubble

[azure thicket]

it's literally about as common as that outlaw bug where you could lose subterfuge for pressing between the eyes too fast

which was like 1/500 levels of common on outlaw not so much on prot pal

[silver yarrow]

Boys, is sub a downtime spec like sin, now?

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

Wait. What do u mean by downtime spec

[azure thicket]

sometimes you do be stand and auto attack like that

[short radish]

this is the peak performance of sub

and i will miss it forever.

(r1 log btw)

iykyk

[crystal bone]

feint most op defensive

[void ocean]

I laughed at myself when i trained it on vanilla classic

[crystal bone]

it was up for every mechanic on our dim CE kill

i took 0 dmg compared to everyone else

[swift tinsel]

for its cost, cooldown, and two stacks it truly is the most insane defensive

[crystal bone]

3.57%

[crystal bone]

i think it was more balanced when it was on the GCD

but i love it being off the GCD

at least it still costs energy, even tho i wouldn't even consider that a downside as sub

idk about outlaw

[azure thicket]

not causing the healer to spontaneously combust is pretty balanced

[haughty mural]

mAgEs ArE sO sQuIsHy

-- mages in tww s1 - s3

[crystal bone]

[azure thicket]

i mean sometimes not feinting is the play

as a treat

not running cheat death on soul hunter prog is lmao

[haughty mural]

till you need to press it in dance

[tender dust]

I do think feint costing energy is still weird af

[haughty mural]

it is borderline op if it does not have a cost

if it stays off gcd

[tender dust]

AMs is also borderline OP or IB and doenst havea cost either

[haughty mural]

sure - DKs are also pretty special and unkillable

[lilac stag]

dK ignoring every fucking mechanic

[keen dome]

This is absolutely sick, man. Owns

[lilac stag]

This is fine

[lilac stag]

I can send the sensei stuff if you want

[keen dome]

I'm happy with mine but I will keep it in mind!

[lilac stag]

I have to host the textures someplace

Unitframes are mostly done.
I’m happy with resources.
Still churning through cdm mods

[torn tide]

yo is it bad that im getting like 121% mastery in dungeons

it feels so unbalanced kinda

[swift tinsel]

they're as endless as they are buggy

so I'm just done trying with them for a while lol

[torn tide]

also bruh another server shutdown

[azure thicket]

bugsack and bugcatcher have kept platynator and ice hud working

weird that ice HUD can't track casts anymore even though platy works fine

state of blizzard is tonight i think, should be a fun stream

[red vortex]

is simcraft still dead?

[crystal atlas]

We have any combat text add-ons yet?

[swift tinsel]

I actually never get lua errors from platynator

arc ui and tweaks though are bugged to shit

[lilac stag]

Blizzard Default UI

fucking thing pops errors on its own

[swift tinsel]

trying to see void meta stacks and soul number with blizz default UI would be my 13th reason

dude I swear blizz ui throws the most errors for me

[fallow nimbus]

Moneyframe lua error

[swift tinsel]

YEA

the fucking

money

frame

[lilac stag]

I got the resources in a happy place @swift tinsel

[azure thicket]

moneyframe

[swift tinsel]

bricks all gear tooltips for me

[swift tinsel]

niceu

[fallow nimbus]

Is it because i sit at 9999999 gold?

[lilac stag]

Ended up doing a custom texture based off skullflower

[red vortex]

IM NOT THE ONLY ONE?

[fallow nimbus]

[red vortex]

with the moneyframe rerors?

[lilac stag]

just have no money.

No errors

[red vortex]

what teh fuck man, i hate that bugsacker just in my face

perma

cus i have too much gold

[azure thicket]

there's an addon that fixes the bag error but haven't asked the person who knows about it yet

[swift tinsel]

lmao it does that when I have like 4k on me at a time

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/jacob-wysocki-big-bucks-over-here-rich-big-spender-dropout-gif-11828310707150637530

[fallow nimbus]

There is a moneyframe error fix addon and now all my money text is blue and some wierd script ran when i checked my mail

[swift tinsel]

man WeakAuras really fucked up everything didn't they

(blizz kneejerk bricked their own game kekw)

oh yeah that state of azeroth thing is today too

in two hours

[fallow nimbus]

Yeah, get a lua error because something tried to call protected shit and it's blizz

[lilac stag]

i wonder if it gives lua errors trying to call sound alerts in Raid

Fix it copilot

[snow rune]

During shadow dance, we use evicerate even in aoe?

[swift tinsel]

only with coup as trickster

otherwise you use black powder

[upbeat smelt]

For you cool beta testers, does CP show in the standard nameplates unlike now on live?

[iron whale]

guys im sorry im super noob but... question: why isn't subterfuge meta on sub? isn't it like a free shadow dance window on opener?

or am I missing something

(I likely am)

[red vortex]

the sims said so

[iron whale]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-gif-9305739

[graceful osprey]

I miss double coup

https://tenor.com/view/guts-berserk-berserk-in-the-rain-gif-18269717237211287247

[random hare]

this looks rly nice no cappy

[lilac stag]

Thanks.

[swift tinsel]

you don't get the damage bonuses that dance gives

[lilac stag]

Subterfuge is like temu stealth

[tight sequoia]

Sub is temu rogue

[swift tinsel]

vs the capstones we do take in the class tree

odd way to describe the best of the three

[lilac stag]

Did you play anymore UH on beta?

[swift tinsel]

I haven't been on beta in a minute

got wrapped up in UI shenanigans

[north schooner]

does any of the specs even use subterfuge anymore? I don't think it's played at all

[lilac stag]

probably pvp for whatever reason

[north schooner]

chopping block it is

[swift tinsel]

now that Carnage isn't a bleed spreader and Crackshot is gone I can't really see anyone wanting it

[north schooner]

no crackshot and no RB on vanish

[lilac stag]

I mean our class tree still needs lovin

When 2 of the specs are taking auto fill tea

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah forgot about no vanish cdr lol

rip

survivability nerf too then

[slate marlin]

sub uses subterfuge in pvp

afaik

but its such an uninteresting talent in pve now

[safe tundra]

Yeah I’m a new sub player (trying to learn all rogue specs to play whatever one is tuned the best) and I find that most of my rotation is 2 buttons

😭

[tight sequoia]

Shut up you will like your retribution rogue and like it

[lilac stag]

1 more than feral

[tight sequoia]

https://tenor.com/view/warcraft-hmmm-hehehe-scared-gif-13259643

[safe tundra]

Which is why I’m not playing feral next tier

LOL

[ionic quarry]

wait how many buttons does feral have now

[tight sequoia]

Oh fuck feral one button ?

Dont they still have bleeds

[lilac stag]

Try arms warrior. Think they’re current button bloat kings

[haughty mural]

hell yeah

summoned me

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/forrest-gump-wave-hello-hi-sup-gif-16159238468026206620

[haughty mural]

i personally dont think they are that bloated

well if you compare them, they might be

[lilac stag]

it’s closest to TWW button count

[haughty mural]

yea thats for sure

[swift tinsel]

didn't feral only really lose Thrash but gained Chomp

[haughty mural]

they lost dragon roar

[swift tinsel]

as far as buttons

[hazy breach]

Do they really after the cheap changes?

Wouldve thought that kinda killed it

[swift tinsel]

so they're net even

[slate marlin]

Its in the beta pvp builds

So i guess they still do

[lilac stag]

@molten citrus are you a subterfuge gamer on beta?

[swift tinsel]

more egregious for feral was losing Bloodtalons

[lilac stag]

I’m enjoying the new main shopping. Eventually the realization sinks in most specs are TWW BM levels.

[swift tinsel]

the trick is to make them like survival

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/grass-mower-mowing-gif-26074145

[haughty mural]

so based

and true

[swift tinsel]

and have one button be a super big boom blaster

[lilac stag]

And get ignored after one tuning pass when BM goes nuclear?

[swift tinsel]

so you don't notice how shallow the rest is

[haughty mural]

and when you dont even use your specs signature ability anymore in ST
💣

[lilac stag]

If I had 5% faith in bliz that I could just one trick SV I would.

[swift tinsel]

its such a chill rotation

kc for 2 tip stacks, spend two tip stacks

repeat til you're dead

[lilac stag]

2 buttons. NOT GOOD ENOUGH

[haughty mural]

repeat till you boomstick

[swift tinsel]

#MakeHatchetTossExist

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/ready-gun-chainsaw-gif-10358244

[swift tinsel]

wait do you really play bombless in st

lmao

[haughty mural]

yes

as pack leader

[swift tinsel]

[haughty mural]

and as sentinel you just consume mark OR just when overstacked.. thats neutral

[swift tinsel]

ig I've only looked at the prepatch wowhead rec builds

[vestal escarp]

Wow chainsaw man

[swift tinsel]

does bm hunter even pay attention to frenzy stacking anymore

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel do i need masqu for BCDM icons or can I squre them up in the addon?

[haughty mural]

ig you throw them when you have one specific buff (wyvern) as pack leader aswell

thats it

[haughty mural]

who gonna tell him

there is no frenzy stacking anymore

[swift tinsel]

I don't think bcdm lets you use masque

at least I didn't find the setting that enabled it when I tried it out

[swift tinsel]

okay so now I get to omega troll the bm hunter in our guild bragging about never having to use WA's before the pruning

[runic verge]

Is this still likely to be "The PvP Spec"?

[swift tinsel]

bc without frenzy stacks there's literally zero braincells involved with that spec and its purely button whackamole

[lilac stag]

#pvp

[hazy breach]

Havent been since like wrath

[haughty mural]

amused me aswell when they just decided to bake the frenzy stacks as a passive 2pointer into the tree

[swift tinsel]

omg I didn't even see that it was a 2pt node

cinema

lmao

[haughty mural]

"here you just get it for free all the time instead of needing to keep it up as stacks"

[swift tinsel]

hahahahahahahahahahaahahahaha shut the fuck up no way

[lilac stag]

anyone complaining about sub/gunslinger legit needs to spend time on other specs

[swift tinsel]

that's a literal captain insane-o line to add to a priority list

[hazy breach]

Tbf you could add that line to sub and assa as well

[tight sequoia]

Cant count to 7

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel Essential Cooldown seems promising

[reef walrus]

at least the "do nothing" line is at the bottom now, unlike dark ranger bm in S3 where doing nothing was a dps increase if you were less than 1.5 (I think?) globals away from getting a guaranteed black arrow procc

[swift tinsel]

that on curseforge?

[lilac stag]

ye

sec

[lilac stag]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/cooldown-manager-control/

[swift tinsel]

will have to poke around with it

does it allow independent x/y icon sizing?

or just squares

[haughty mural]

ikr

you guys abandoned arcui ?

[swift tinsel]

for now

I was getting really frustrated with the fact that cooldown text disappears frequently

[lilac stag]

yes

[swift tinsel]

and tweaks is having issues with frame layouts twitching when procs happen

as well as icon reordering/moving

so I'm just super frustrated with all of them atm

[safe tundra]

I would but I’m needed as rogue for buff

And it’s similar to feral enough people trust me with it

😭

Well debuff

[tulip light]

are there any rules on when to enter dance cp / energy wise?

[swift tinsel]

ideally low/no cp

esp as deathstalker

but if you're at 6+ its fine to dance

[swift tinsel]

hmm def gonna give it a try then

[alpine wraith]

im using the mapko one and just vibing with it

[swift tinsel]

as long as you can remove active buff overlay

[alpine wraith]

and sensei bars

[swift tinsel]

ye I'm rocking sensei again until wangbars gets some updates

since its more responsive with cps than sensei

[wet idol]

what u using ?

[hollow forum]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

in the addone no, you can with maque

[south kernel]

some dude in my guild made a custom addon that just removes the overlay of the duration on the spells

[vale pine]

fancy

[south kernel]

for barbed shot on hunter

i can toss u the thing if u want

[lilac stag]

if you wouldnt mind I'll take it @south kernel

or just link here

[south kernel]

Its called : Will's CDM no clue if i can link it from curse forge nvm i can
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/wills-cdm

[alpine wraith]

tell will he has cool aura

[swift tinsel]

yeah that kinda owns ngl

[south kernel]

imma screenshot that and if he doesnt rig my fucking loot next tier (he is our raidleader) we place a target on his back

[swift tinsel]

based true and actually

[south kernel]

if u guys want some extra stuff lmk he'd be pretty happy to add more stuff ppl want

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel

[swift tinsel]

dang that's just about perfect lol

and that's with the one you linked a bit ago?

[lilac stag]

so you can still do swipe but adjust color and trans

[swift tinsel]

ah hell yeah

[south kernel]

oh yea he has colors too

[lilac stag]

scroll up lol

[swift tinsel]

I'm just gonna make the alpha 0% so its just the swipe

[swift tinsel]

I mean the icon resizing

[lilac stag]

youre being lazy lol #subtlety message

[swift tinsel]

yep lol

ah must have missed the message where you said you could resize x/y

mb mb

[lilac stag]

@south kernel thanks for the link. tell wills thankyou and give you the 90 sec haste trinket

[south kernel]

will do o7

[fallow nimbus]

what are you using? mine is sensei combopoints and bcdm, ignore energy because that is scuffed from my 2009 brain

[lilac stag]

sensei with a custom texture

[red vortex]

[swift tinsel]

the top row icon spacing gives me agita

[red vortex]

i am a psycho

what cna i say

i play subt

[swift tinsel]

both the between-icon spacing and the fact step doesnt line up with the edge and cloak does

[red vortex]

ye that lil spacing

i should fix

or u like this more

[quick marlin]

should prolly move cloak up..

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel did tint for the active state to match the spells

[hazy breach]

Can remove silent storm

[swift tinsel]

def dig that idea

[quick marlin]

[lilac stag]

so the one hicup, and maybe just need to install bartender. if you use masque for blizzard bars, it screws up the icons for the CDM with CMC

have to fix that shit now

[fallow nimbus]

what's cmc?

[swift tinsel]

running back for the 49'ers

[lilac stag]

#subtlety message

[torn tide]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

[torn tide]

hmmm will the dance and sectec macro really help

gonna save 0.1seconds of time to press them

[lilac stag]

the entire spec is based on getting as many casts off in dance

[swift tinsel]

that's 0.3% dps

[lilac stag]

which now has a varied length based on haste and 1.2 sec gcd from coup but you do you with it

[haughty mural]

Man of culture

[torn tide]

hmmmm usually its like 1 sectec per dance for me

i assume thats bad

[lilac stag]

???

[torn tide]

wait do we mean by casts, like evisc?

[lilac stag]

yes

[torn tide]

oh nvm then

i thought u meant to get mutliple sectecs in 1 dance, i was like wtf how

[lilac stag]

i mean i said casts

sectech has a cd

[lilac stag]

ok I like this approach. still stands out

[swift tinsel]

is that with 0 alpha?

[lilac stag]

that's all on CD. onse sec for active

[swift tinsel]

ahh

[swift tinsel]

Oh hell yeah that looks super nice

[keen dome]

I believe in rogue tank. is today the day.

[lilac stag]

oh shit that thing in on soon

are we supposed to twitch it?

[swift tinsel]

oh shit good coms lmao

[keen dome]

Yeah it's on the main WoW channel (link in the bnet launcher, too)

[swift tinsel]

totally forgot

[keen dome]

I don't think the decor is from watching 'cos their wording is "Watch to learn how to earn" so I assume it'll be a classic thing like the mounts in the past

[crystal bone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkFMkdZWxdk

live in 4:20 min

(nice)

[lilac stag]

twitch has the drops though

[swift tinsel]

is the audio super scuffed for anyone else

sounds like a really old vhs lol

[crystal bone]

kinda yea

original audio from 2004

[swift tinsel]

seems to be fixed now

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel ok, so you have a good bit of override control look at the buffs

[torn tide]

yea im just dumb

honestly im not even sure if im doing the adequate amount

but im doing like pretty much the same damage as what i simmed so i assume thats a good sign

[lilac stag]

You need to likely look at a log to see if you’re missing casts

[torn tide]

thanks

btw why tf has there been like a server shutdown everyday lmfao

[keen dome]

Damn, another raid in 12.0.7

that's cool

(Just a lair boss)

[lilac stag]

I hope that fucker is so overtuned that it drives RWF insane

[swift tinsel]

prop hunt gonna be fun

labyrinths sound kinda sick

[lilac stag]

Ye

[swift tinsel]

as a huge delve enthusiast

[keen dome]

yeah

big fan of them being more freeform on raid content

[lilac stag]

More raids. More RWF views

[swift tinsel]

same

[lilac stag]

Free advertising

[keen dome]

Just better content for everyone imo

[swift tinsel]

idk I kinda liked solo boss raids like Sarth

[keen dome]

where rogue tank though

[lilac stag]

where rogue extra button.

[keen dome]

Ion, announce it!!! you better announce it!!!!!

[swift tinsel]

Ascension talents coming

[haughty mural]

I like it a lot

[swift tinsel]

Um

what

rogue mentioned

WE'RE SO BACK

[lilac stag]

It’s starting to feel like my ui

[keen dome]

I wish sub was a scool as her

[swift tinsel]

I think I'm in love

[haughty mural]

That makes me happy

Im also getting there

[keen dome]

lmao

[lilac stag]

I wish all our daggers could sit on back

[swift tinsel]

this would be really sick

choosing hip or back weapon sheathing

[keen dome]

yeah

[swift tinsel]

like with Hungering Cold from sanctum

[keen dome]

I can't believe they FAKED ME OUT with that rogue

[lilac stag]

So all the rogue dev time went into advertising.

[graceful rock]

Frfr

[red vortex]

so we got, housing, classic jebait, housing, roadmap & raids, housing cinematic

[haughty mural]

I missed it …anything else beside that

[lilac stag]

Got an ozzy tribute of sorts. I’ll take it.

[void hound]

the best looking lame rotation

[red vortex]

we get multiple raids a patch

thats the only thing

and prop hunt

i gues

[haughty mural]

Alright

[upbeat smelt]

Whats prop hunt?

[keen dome]

Yeah, 12.0.7 is adding a lairboss

[red vortex]

mostly 1 boss raids

[bleak night]

bigger delves pog

[lilac stag]

Hide and go seek

[bleak night]

labyrinth gaming

https://klipy.com/gifs/labyrinth-labyrinth-film

[swift tinsel]

ye they kinda got me with that one lol

[haughty mural]

Cool hopefully overtuned so rwf is fun

[swift tinsel]

I'm gonna be labyrinthing my buns off

[keen dome]

Yeah, the delve mode is cool

I'm just glad they're finally moving away from the rote cycle

[swift tinsel]

huge agree

[upbeat smelt]

Damn none of those answers helped lol

[swift tinsel]

some people can turn into objects and hide from seekers

[keen dome]

hide and seek but the hiders are random objects

[lilac stag]

Which useless rotation you want next?

[swift tinsel]

so you try to blend yourself

[wheat elk]

hopefully the end of laby reward will be somewhat close to vault

[upbeat smelt]

Ah wow literally, I thought that was a joke, ok then hehe.

[red vortex]

for a second

i hoped for a new rogue spec

[void hound]

hmm i havent looked at other classes, but youre cooking

[red vortex]

but i guess we got housing

[swift tinsel]

I bet it'll be a hero track gearing avenue

[keen dome]

myth, believe

[swift tinsel]

probs limited to 1 per week

[wheat elk]

ive done enough delves for a hc track item ffs

[swift tinsel]

myth would be pretty sick if its like how map guarantees hero track currently

since it looks considerably more elaborate

[vale pine]

rogue showcase in the housing movie
must be a sub rogue ^^