subtlety

[warm marlin]

fwiw the robot gets cb sectec in tfd every single time with predisorient

from my own testing you also don't need lust or the vanish opener. you just need predisorient to guarantee and to not lose any dance time at all

[hearty orbit]

Hi, guys anyone has tips to keeping up flawless form?

[hazy breach]

Not really something you should be thinking about

[hearty orbit]

i can just do my rotation but i always lose sight from my flawless form wa

damn

its just i feel very mid in dungeons at times, but sometimes i got good damage

figure it might be i dont play around this too well

[hazy breach]

Theres nothing to play around with flawless form

Its just up pretty much all the time

[hearty orbit]

i guess

sometimes it has a lot of stacks tho if you hit your big cds then

u know?

[hazy breach]

What

You get your big stacks from using your cds

You dont press coup twice and then go "oh i have a lot of stacks, i should send my cds", you go "oh my cds are up in 5 seconds i should hold coup until my cds and send them immediately"

(as long as the pack lives for most of your cds)

[hearty orbit]

right ok

im just trying to figure out why i sometimes pop off and same dungeon later that day, I don't (on the same pack for example)

[eager latch]

what's the longest we'd hold coup for?

like 20-25 secs?

[alpine wraith]

as long as you dont int your dance cdr and not have 2 for flag

yea 20 secs checks out

[eager latch]

ty!

[limpid sage]

What really? Even when accounting for the latter hits of sectec?

Because sometimes I get to send at 1 sec

[dense geode]

i havent looked at stats but i see some people use antenna over double on use in m+

an particular reason

[warm marlin]

it's kind of an offshoot of the coup gcd thing. assuming you coup twice in the opener, you lose 0.4s. therefore your second last gcd of dance occurs at most 1.6s before it ends. from my anecdotal evidence, you can consistently get sectec off on this exact gcd without lust

and you just barely have the clones hit

i think i hit it like 25 times in a row on dimmy prog one night (excluding the few times I didnt get disorient)

[limpid sage]

Yeah maybe I’m just losing some gcds to human error

I don’t use a shadow dance+backstab macro, so I’m bound to get some error there

[warm marlin]

yeah that will massively increase your consistency

[limpid sage]

I have started using symbols before my first shadowstrike though, and it feels really nice when you have prepull cheese

[warm marlin]

just pulled up a couple random logs and my clones are hitting like 200ms before dance ends with the macro, so you need to really not have any delay

[limpid sage]

I press E twice to use Dance->Stab, so it’s prob 40 ms at most

So I gotta mess up somewhere else as well

[warm marlin]

you'd be surprised

[fossil forge]

Drop the macro rq gang

[warm marlin]

im also relatively certain it's consistent just based on the guaranteed way sht works

[fossil forge]

Also ryldd r u doing the evil boat tech for pre disorienting ?

[warm marlin]

i think you always get enough procs to get it on that exact gcd

[warm marlin]

i will be, didn't play this week because of internet issues

[limpid sage]

can log on in a bit - I’ve had a few macros so I don’t know which iteration I stuck with xd

[fossil forge]

s/o grouch

Would appreciate If you could dm it to me

So i dont lose it here ^

[limpid sage]

What does this mean

Sounds like something lil yachtyy invented

[fossil forge]

Hitting stech on the adds where you spawn on saladbar tp

to get predisorient

A few lads chill there perma

[limpid sage]

Ahhhh

[warm marlin]

the real tech was stealthi telling me that there is a teleporter to get back there

[fossil forge]

no way u were

Running back

[limpid sage]

Do you not lose it when using the teleporter?

[fossil forge]

HAHA

[warm marlin]

i did run all the way back a couple times

[fossil forge]

No shot bro

[limpid sage]

I thought all teleporters removed it

[warm marlin]

when breaks got called

i can usually get it on dimmy though

[fossil forge]

First time i ran too

Then i was like tf

I can just tp

[warm marlin]

as long as you dont die in p1 its usually fine

i might have inted my p1 damage a bit a couple times on prog pressing sectec right before flag on the 90s set because i didnt trust the other side to take the gate in time

[fossil forge]

Cloak+speed combo

[limpid sage]

I just realized

Couldn’t you make a macro like

/castsequence reset=14 null, Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique

Though you gotta make sure you don’t press it twice xd

[limpid sage]

I am surprised

86 ms

[warm marlin]

86 of ur 300 leeway for that gcd

tuff

well 300 and there's some shenanigans with ping

[limpid sage]

yeah things start to make a bit more sense when I look at it that way

[raven maple]

Okay so wow head say Prisim+ Antenna is bis for trinks but top parses for raids and dungeons I see a lot of people run Prisim and Araz

And Prisim+ Antenna sims butter under Dungeon slice also, so im not sure which combo is better

[limpid sage]

a big part of araz value is in the fact that you actually have an on use at the start, so in dungeon slice it'll naturally be lower than passive trinkets

since top parses tend to have the best kill timers it favors araz as well

[vast tusk]

what does the percentage on warlogs mean?

[lilac stag]

db is probably only dungeon double on use clearly better with a capable tank.

Everything else you’re likely holding prism or azar/lily longer than you should have

[raven maple]

Ahh okay thanks

[limpid sage]

it's which percentile dps/hps-wise you're in

so 95 means you did better than 95% of the people playing the same spec as you

[safe forge]

I am playing around with sub rogue (Coming from sin)... wiht longer living mobs, how many targets to you refresh rupture on?

[hazy breach]

Generally anything that lives long enough (like 15 seconds or something)

[safe forge]

Got it

[wind star]

Anyone tried sub in midnight pvp wise?

[vale pine]

think some streamers did explore it, but i am certain they also don't like it

#pvp might got a better answer

[viral phoenix]

for p3 dimensius if u have netherprism for amp whats the best way to pair trinkets with the rest of the fight? I'm assuming 2:30 p3 duration. Netherprism amp, forge after, netherprism at 2:00, forge after?

[hazy breach]

Nether prism is stronger than forge generally.

So if youre getting to enrage you can go prism > forge > prism on every blades

But if youre just getting 2 blades out because youre killing before enrage (which you should) then using prism with blades and forge randomly on a dance

[viral phoenix]

ok tuy

and are you delaying second blades cast in that situation?

or just off cd?

[hazy breach]

As long as youre still getting all of your blades in before the boss dies ye

[candid raven]

The timings for my guild are so annoying. I get to do cds twice in p1, but then I'm not allowed to use cds on the first platform, even though they are perfectly ready. We have to do dps stops on P1 and the first platform.

I could send them on the first platform, since we play it so long that they would get up for the second platform aswel, but then we'd have to stop dps even sooner...

[shrewd lantern]

lmao im stuck playing sin since im on p2 cd jail

so just praying for cdr bug

we are, not holding at all so our pushes are dumb fast

[candid raven]

Do you play the 2min or 1.5min cds?

[shrewd lantern]

i mean if i can not cd platform 2

i think you just send 2 in p1

then on artosh then on burn

idk boss timings are so cursed

post turbo

[candid raven]

We essentially wait for heal cds and consistency reasons

[shrewd lantern]

the irony is how we push faster p1 if i play sin

since 1.5 min cds in execute

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah i wish

[candid raven]

I'm just annoyed by the game at this point. I wanna get the endboss over with, get my CE and take a break.

[shrewd lantern]

i dont mind the game i just hate the turboboost timings

sometimes sending twice in p1 i dont have flag for ~10s

[candid raven]

I mind the game because I have to stop dps. I feel like Pilav

[shrewd lantern]

when artoshian+adds

unironically if you hold shouldnt you have cds for all platforms

if 4 healing

[candid raven]

Yea, as I said, I do

I'm just not allowed to use them

Hence my frustration. Don't really wanna play anymore

It wouldn't be better if I sent them. Then we'd just hold dps longer at the end.

[twin quartz]

It doesn’t really matter. If you look at one of shindigs recent logs he got a 97 by holding his second 90s in p1 for over a minute to send on platform 1, then held about 40s or something on platform 2 to line up with the amp. The timers are just cooked but you can still blast

[candid raven]

It's not about logs. Idc about that. I wanna press my buttons. I find holding cds or even damage overall to be the most boring tactic ever. I know why we do it, but I still hate it

[shrewd lantern]

sub is probably

the most afk spec rn

or has periods of

[hallow night]

Is the wowhead bis list up to date for being absolute bis with turbo boost?

[quaint lodge]

!symbols

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[shrewd lantern]

why would it change

[hallow night]

I wasn't sure if it was accurate in the first place, but ilevel could move some stats around potentially, probably at a gem/enchant level tho

[quaint lodge]

Typically yes

Some scenarios call for a passive trinket such as very fast kills

WoWhead isn't always up to date, good that you asked

👍

[shrewd lantern]

we already were hitting drs

[hallow night]

I have some weird unique gear I'll have to sim

[shrewd lantern]

not sure what is

"weird unique"

there are like 3-4 changeable slots this tier and most are miniscule

[hallow night]

basically I don't have dagger from salad king or high nerubian signet, but I have everything else. I also have big momma amulet mythic which could beat crafted maybe

[shrewd lantern]

i guarantee you there's multiple jewelry combos that work

granted the "good" necks this season are probably big momma or priory

[hallow night]

The reason I'm thinking about it cause I need to move my enchant off my off-hander since I got a 2nd mythic weapon

the lens dmg proc. I'll probably put it on a ring

[shrewd lantern]

that like, doesnt matter

i ran the sim on lens being on neck+ring vs bracers+offhand

was literally sim variance

i mean my sim wants crit fiber of all things

if you're doing any fight with cleave double dusk is probably better if your healers arent pepega

[hallow night]

I'm just assuming 730 weapon beats crafted in off hand. I haven't simmed anything yet

It's just I can't put lens on big momma amulet if it ends up being good

[shrewd lantern]

i've run the sim on every double lens combo and what came out on top basically varied every sim

which means it doesnt matter

you'll put lens on whichever slot you dont get 730

[hallow night]

wish I could craft a ring to have double mast

[shrewd lantern]

thats not gonna be a gain due to hitting drs

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/945404?mode=detailed&zone=44&metric=dps

also guy with most allstar points is still playing ascension

[hallow night]

the classic wow server?

Kappa

[shrewd lantern]

honestly double statted items are really bad due to drs

[hazy breach]

Your secondary stats practically dont matter

[shrewd lantern]

if you want more sim dps racechanging to maghar if you aren't one already is likely more dps than any "which slots do i put lens on"

[hazy breach]

As long as you dont stack haste theres very little difference

[maiden oar]

this breaks my heart

i love being dwarf

i probably should do it though

[bleak night]

dont do it

play what you love

racials are for nerds

[shrewd lantern]

i should run the sim on how much it is

[maiden oar]

its better in fights w higher value flags

like amps or a bunch of dudes

sims undersell it imo

[shrewd lantern]

yeah sim cant really measure

getting an execute range dm last tier with spatter

on mugzee or gally either

[maiden oar]

we love it

[shrewd lantern]

i loved it

parsing either was i get gaol on me

or not

that week

[maiden oar]

i love velf

i did race swap for that tier

[shrewd lantern]

velf racial is so qol

50% off tmog

[maiden oar]

yeah but i love being a short guy w a funny accent

so back to dwarf i went

[hallow night]

dwarf rogue has evil energy

creature living in the walls vibes

[maiden oar]

[shrewd lantern]

do you have the beer bottle dagger

[glossy garden]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[maiden oar]

yes

the broken one?

[shrewd lantern]

ye that

[maiden oar]

yeah its on one of my outfits

[plush roost]

BRO REMOVE SHORERUNNERS I SWEAR

Its not FAIIIIR

[fleet acorn]

guys im using this coupe weakaura https://wago.io/mOk1k4j-Q/3 and normally when i have the stacks its red and when i use dance to proc it sometimess its yellow thats when i can use it and sometimes it stays red but i dont understand why thats when it insta procs combo point return
I know the explanation is in the weakaura: Basically, yellow glow means consume Coup with an Eviscerate, red glow means don't consume Coup and spend combo points on Black Powder instead.

but i saw multiple rogues talking about pre using shuriken storm in that condition but i dont understand the exact reason why

it has something to do with unseen blade maybe someone can enlighten me

or should i just use zacs coupe weakaura and load as sub but not sure if that works or conditions are wrong cause its only loaded for outlaw

[azure thicket]

unseen blade doesn't proc with shuri storm

uhh

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[azure thicket]

are you getting a shadowcraft refund at some point?

[fleet acorn]

so what would i do in that condition when im dancing and cant apply any faze debuff?

the left weakaura is 7 sec shown i cant apply any more faze debuff

[hazy breach]

What

Sectech applies fazed

[fleet acorn]

ok then i just sectech and after that ss into coupe?

or is the ss only between the 2 coupes

like from my understanding of "!coupe" u cannot shadowstrike or backstab cause u wasting unseen blade proc? is that correct?

thats why u need to ss between the 2 coupes if no combo point proc

[hazy breach]

"cannot" is a massive overstatement. Its slightly better to use shuriken storm (shadowstrike is also ss btw) to preserve a stack

But you dont want to storm more than once

[azure thicket]

order is symbols/dance > backstab > sec tec how is it even up there

so sec tec w/ refund > coup > ss > coup OR sec tec no refund > shadowstrike > coup > shuri > coup

[fleet acorn]

ty wollmart

when its like a aoe scenario i could go in the no refund > shurikenstorm> coup > shuri > coup ? tho get find weakness on many people up?

like in m+ big pull

[azure thicket]

nope just shadowstrike

[fleet acorn]

i think im overthinking the find weakness debuff this season

[azure thicket]

nimble flurry splashes that buffed shadowstrike onto the pack

if u shuriken storm there it's peanuts

[fleet acorn]

when i get a coup - refund - coup is it because of shadow techniques?

and is it bad if that happens or i mean do i need to play around it that it doesnt happen

[azure thicket]

there's a talent at the bottom of tree called shadowcraft that increases shadow techniques's proc rate

there's a weakaura that will play a sound when a refund happens

[shrewd lantern]

shadowcraft with shadowtechniques, there is no "if" it refunds

[oak grotto]

First pull of Arak, or on the miniboss that spawns the adds in arak, do you rupture all mobs? Or just around 5-6 ruptures and then go into CDs?

[latent finch]

On the fist pull i do some raptures while the tank is gathering the pull. On the mini boss who spawns them i dont bother at all. They die from passive cleave anyway and dont matter

[quaint lodge]

Since you have tricks, you can rupture as much as you want until the pull is gathered, can also throw some shuriken storms to help your tank with aggro since gathering that pull sucks dick

[quaint lodge]

Soon as its gathered you can send

[fossil forge]

U can pop flag lil early and spread rupture

[devout nebula]

has anyone beta gamered yet?

[vale pine]

i tested a few things, but did not do a lot of content else

[fair cloak]

whats with beta sub changes

stealthed?

petko didnt even notice nothing is there

[deep narwhal]

why they give us a fkn Cooldown manager button for evis but not for rupture

i try to play without auras now and miss so many times my rupture uptime

but this eviscerate CD manager button is complete useless to have

so, you have buff uptime bars too but not for slice n dice

[bleak night]

you can track debuffs like rupture on beta, the version they pushed to live was right before they added it

[deep narwhal]

aah okay ty

good to knwo

[north schooner]

it's there for trickster basically, in case you want to see it when it turns into coup

[past token]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[plain void]

what the fuck?

[alpine wraith]

did you give her your back

[left ledge]

he prob press AD or something

[plain void]

i don tthink so? i mean i was hitting her

u can see my healing from exhilarating execution right before i took damage

[alpine wraith]

if you move sideways or something you can also get hit

[left ledge]

yeah you basically cant touch movement buttons

or theres a chance she'll fk you up

[plain void]

ffs

[woeful wren]

btw. when running double on use in M+ /w cb over tea. would it be worth saving araz on use for the cb sectech? just send first dance blades with flag to build for a giga sectech on aoe

[chrome palm]

No

Cold blood secret technique isn’t most of your damage in blades

[woeful wren]

just feels shit to waste the high part of araz without flawless form operating tho

its like 15k agi gone already by the time u cb

[shrewd lantern]

uhh should be less

just get coup in your first few globals

[woeful wren]

even then could u not just save blade/araz until coup

[plush roost]

Your first secret technique still does a lot of damage, missing araz on it is pretty grief

And its like -10k agi by second cast

[shrewd lantern]

why do you not just

natty crit the first sectech

[plush roost]

Yahhhp

[shrewd lantern]

that sounds like a skill issue

[plush roost]

Just hit

[shrewd lantern]

until you get the pug tank who decides to chain with mobs that take forever to group up

and you want to throw a chair at them

[woeful wren]

think the lesson here is fuck cold blood going back to tea so i dnt get fomo

[plush roost]

Dw even good tanks still dont chain well with sub

[shrewd lantern]

idk tea can eat my whole ass

really the selling point is vigor not tea

[plush roost]

Rn my group is relearning chains cause sub is so game warping

[shrewd lantern]

i love chains like that in priory

[plush roost]

Like please, just chain the pack at 200m caster hp idc. We grip, we kicks, we stuns, and its allllll dead in 8 seconds

[shrewd lantern]

where half the mobs just dont like to move

[woeful wren]

bro

no word of a lie i hate the first church packs

every tank

moves it diff

all desync'd spread

[shrewd lantern]

theres about an 80% chance the tank leaves the pack in consecrate

[plush roost]

Everyone is super hesitant to chain casters cause theyve been burned

[woeful wren]

i know i can get a 50-60m going easy if done well, but ends up 30 and I cry into my prism stacks

[plush roost]

But i think to actually time prio 21 you need to just send it

[shrewd lantern]

i also like the jumping mobs

with ranged who refuse to be nearby

[plush roost]

Ahh farstalkers

Its really annoying when youre in flag and you need to prio down farstalkers but they leap away and youre mashing tab and strike to not miss globals and spinnning like a maniac

[shrewd lantern]

yeah idk i hate double on use with random tanks

feels value is ass

due to jank pulls

[plush roost]

I also just think 2onuse is bad outside of DB

[shrewd lantern]

oh i've seen some cursed db pulls

trust me

[plush roost]

Theres pulls where youre just forced to send 18 stacks on 5 mobs when its 2 onuse

[shrewd lantern]

in theory it should be nice in db since

most groups are kind of close

[woeful wren]

I like flood if we go 4 lust route

[plush roost]

In db its vwry good since youre always sending 9stack prism in that key with passive

[woeful wren]

Big mom is juice

[shrewd lantern]

my favorite tbh is tanks who do random chains into bosses

with zero funnel specs

or the tanks that pull the 4 guards into gambit first boss and forget to take boss out of circles

[plush roost]

Idk if u know this but bigmama is better with passive + prism since you intentionally offset your 18 stacker from the fdk/hunter/dh to cover an add set

[tribal blade]

anyone know why i'm trying to enter retail dungeons and i'm getting this msg

[plush roost]

What dungeon

[woeful wren]

I've been sending the 18 stack into 10 soilders on pull with lust

[tribal blade]

just tried rookery and then cinderbrew

wanted to check nameplate stuff

[haughty rose]

just saw this spec popularity graph. First time i see Sub being above Assa. What caused this?

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/news/the-death-of-5-mans-in-legion-retail-and-remix-spec-and-group-popularity-week-13-14/

[shrewd lantern]

because people are sheep

[plush roost]

Ye thats how you can parse but then the second intermission ends up being super long

[shrewd lantern]

also because for some reason people think assa's raw boss st being bad means the spec is

which is a wild conclusion

[plush roost]

Cause its not in season anymore? Weird

[woeful wren]

They get to pad enough elsewhere. That's my time

[tribal blade]

hrm really weird

ok yeah i can walk into priory

huh i don't get it

[woeful wren]

fkn sitting using evi into prio targets and stupid architecht scaffolding cos the meta boys need to shine

[shrewd lantern]

im only doing that if theres a dh

[plush roost]

Idk what key level youre talking about but youre just making it harder if everyone prisms on pull, and sub is a monster add killer so offsetting your prism is the most logical, you also get to do extra prism on demo duo and speed up the key (another insane sub fight)

[woeful wren]

18/19s

nothing big

[shrewd lantern]

or sometimes i hit evis because im too lazy to check target count

[woeful wren]

solo pug life is rough

[plush roost]

Ye 18 19 level it wont matter

20 tho, adds on mama are the biggest key bricker

[shrewd lantern]

the pug special is everyone blows their load

then your tank doesnt pull more and you're all limp dicking a 2-3 pack

for 20 secs

[plush roost]

Also if youre playing with BM or DH dont do this, your job is actually to be the trash killer not the prio killer

Just BP 8)

[tribal blade]

they took er jerb

[woeful wren]

Nah I get complaints if I BP, usually with DK+BM

I dnt really play with DH

[tribal blade]

that's a legacy sub complaint

[plush roost]

Well them complaints are just wrong

[tribal blade]

tell them they're being stupid

[plush roost]

Timed 21 arakara by pressing powder

[tribal blade]

and that BP does barely less prio than evis

[shrewd lantern]

does bm even funnel

[tribal blade]

they have funnel now yes

[shrewd lantern]

thought it was mainly arcane and havoc

[plush roost]

No bm does its ST rotation and it cleaves

[tribal blade]

i heard somewhere they have much more prio or funnel now

i might be messed up

[plush roost]

The "funnel" is 3 barbed shots running

[tribal blade]

ahhh

[plush roost]

But thats not big, its just they do ST and it cleaves and ehen youre STing ofc your prio is good

[shrewd lantern]

idk why people think sub has funnel

combo got axed in bfa

[plush roost]

Since your ST is like 7m dps XDDDDD

Bm moment

[tribal blade]

sub technically has funnel outside dance

but who cares about dmg outside dance

[shrewd lantern]

vaguely

xd

[plush roost]

Technically sub does have funnel

[shrewd lantern]

your no dance finishers can be done after 1 generator

instead of 2-3

[plush roost]

Since you can always 2x dance between flags with extra cdr

[tribal blade]

haha true

[shrewd lantern]

the first time i played with a good bm

and not an actual bot like most of them

[woeful wren]

honestly, the 5% from deathstalker wouldn't go a miss

[plush roost]

Well get excited pal

Cause we playing DS in midnight

[woeful wren]

hell ye

[tribal blade]

just waiting on DN to be BP too

[plush roost]

Well with mass casualty

Its less bad

[woeful wren]

But ye, what comps are u boys running for 21s?

[shrewd lantern]

idk i predict sin being the golden goose

of midnight

as usual

[plush roost]

Pwar rsham bm fdk rogue

[woeful wren]

Would phys comp would too?

[shrewd lantern]

do you guys want to know

[tribal blade]

are you back on rogue??

[shrewd lantern]

my favorite meme of tww

[woeful wren]

I see the outlaws getting high with it

[plush roost]

Im rank 1 US 🙂

[tribal blade]

oh shit

[shrewd lantern]

dks implying their class was dead after the db nerfs

in s1

[tribal blade]

goes to show how much i've been keeping up

[plush roost]

Ye 100% positive i will get resil 21 and probs 22 street gambit eco

[tribal blade]

there you are, rank 1

[woeful wren]

dawn feels insane

[tribal blade]

nice

[woeful wren]

for sub

[tribal blade]

i carried the fuck out of a 18 dawn back when i was still pushing

carried the amazing ketadoc havoc dh

[plush roost]

I did 11.89m in a 19 earlier

[tribal blade]

dawn feels incredible for sub

[plush roost]

Kaboom

[woeful wren]

this was my last 18

but, i do think it depends a bit on route too

some tanks are doing some chain shit top right side of the church

that feels balls

[shrewd lantern]

tanks that pull the fountain packs

i swear

[plush roost]

Like the 3 pack?

That does sound cringe

[tribal blade]

that's a weird route

[shrewd lantern]

pwar is like the only tank i kind of like playing

[woeful wren]

ye it feels like s1 packs got into someones head

and told them they need killed

idk

[tribal blade]

that's an old route, nobody does that anymore really

[plush roost]

Pmuch all the high keys routes are 2x shadow + taction pull infront of church --> miniboss + 2 tact, 1 shadow packs in church courtyard --> orb --> grandmas house

[woeful wren]

u 18 staacking the first pull after 1st boss ye?

[plush roost]

Mm in 21s its ended up being araz

U end up sending an extra flag at on boats

Which feels better since the pull after that is miniboss 2x tsction 3 shadow walkers a caster and a shadow

So 18 stacks on that is wayyyyyy better

[woeful wren]

Do you have any vods at all btw

[plush roost]

I may have a db vod somewhere lemme look

[plush roost]

Check your DMs

[wicked urchin]

Whats your guys strat for going into p3 dim without autumn?

cds coming up 4s after damage amp feels so bad

[vagrant fulcrum]

sounds like its a hold angle

so you have them for t he amp

speak to your raidteam and ask how their 90s are lining up, if the push timer screws it then you either hold on p2 or ask if a dmg stop is on the cards (everyone will hate you)

[wicked urchin]

we push pargoth at winds so not a ton of leeway really

and we're struggling with the check a lot so i dont think holding is an option

i keep missing my second sectech by like 2 globals

its beyond tilting lol

[vagrant fulcrum]

thing is if your raidteam can beat some of the gravity stack + tank suck overlap it genuinely will save you double digit pulls

idk though, nowadays it feels like p3 is over before it really begins

[limpid sage]

Dawn?

[warm marlin]

You can have it up at start without autumn

#subtlety message

[plush roost]

Yeeee, if u play with 2 prio classes u can steal (ethically ofc) all the pad

[upbeat garden]

Finally paused wow ,too tired to not be able to play my favorite class and spec (sub rogue) , I only managed 5/8M and 16 resi ,pugging with randos was hard,raiding with pugs was the same ,hopefully in midnight this spec and class will shine and will not make players sigh when they see us in queue.

[vale pine]

subtlety is currently not bad in raid

its just midnight leaving us with a lot of concerns

[plush roost]

Every raid wants 1 rogue.

Ye ur kinda comp limited in keys tho

[vale pine]

think subtlety fits easier in comps as it brings strong burst

the problem is rly the extreme top end of keys, where rogue just isn't meta

but if i do a 15/16, it does not matter

pushing the highest keys always has this problem, and the game is not tuned around the very top end

[plush roost]

Ye can do anything up to 20s tbh

Even vdh

[vale pine]

some classes/specs are a bit too much in these combos sadly, but thats up to blizzard to decide with balancing

[hollow spear]

Being 5/8 has less to do with playing sub and more with pugging, I suppose

Sub is decent on council and strong on the last two

[hazy breach]

Hey guys, I'm seeing some spec variance in high m+ keys these days. Can someone explain the pluses and minuses of cold blood over tea? How about the Rotten over one point in Finality? Appreciate you guys!

[vale pine]

cold blood is slightly better burst/st

tea is slightly better aoe

but the diffrence is minimal, means the choice is on you as a player

[upper rock]

thistle tea really that strong this season?

[vale pine]

its good enough

and especially if you start out feels better to play

[hazy breach]

Thanks for the answer! How about the bonuses of the Rotten vs that one point in Finality?

[chrome palm]

There’s even less distinction between these two, you don’t even play around the rotten

[hazy breach]

so basically just sim your character?

[chrome palm]

Yeah you can sim it, I genuinely do not think it matters which one you use here

[lethal gale]

What comp would be better for some 19s/20s you think @plush roost

Prot sub frost ele resto dru
Prot sub frost arcane resto sham

[plush roost]

Ele rdudu

[vale pine]

similar, both is fine

[limpid sage]

guys

how do you get cb sectec on dmg amp on dimmy

my flag is like 2 sec till being up when I land and I literally shadowstep to both arto and pargoth for sending flag insta

[tepid trellis]

skip rupture

should be just about able to get it in if its 2 sec

[limpid sage]

yeah I do as well

but won't it be just barely out still?

but it's normal for it to be 2 sec left when down then?

[chrome palm]

Do you play with hpal? You gotta ebeg

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message you can have it up right when it starts

[rigid sparrow]

Hey guys, does anyone know if routes sim is working fine for subs?\

[tulip remnant]

how's Cursed Stone Idol in practice? my sim really wants me to wear it but the channel seems like it would be horrid to acc play with

[limpid sage]

pog tech

[hazy breach]

Fwiw it does assume you dont kill pargoth before the second winds start

[limpid sage]

we do that as well ye

else I can't imagine I'd ever have flag ready

[hazy breach]

You just dont flag on that platform

But flag isnt up when i get to the first platform either so

[limpid sage]

we also hold till the knock at ~2:25

so our 1.5 min line up for start of every platform

I think if I just send flag into sectech insta it should work with the Ryldd pathing

[warm marlin]

if his flag was 2s away i assumed they were doing the hold correctly

[fossil forge]

why not 2

[serene notch]

do you ever stream @plush roost saw your 20 posted would love to rail bird

[plush roost]

ye cant plug discord rules but u can find me

[plain zephyr]

My Cold Blood macro is defaulting to the Outlaw version of Cold Blood so I can't macro Cold Blood and Secret Technique. How do I fix this?

[hazy breach]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[hazy breach]

Its just fatebound in general, not assa specific

[plain zephyr]

okay thanks

That worked thanks

[hollow raptor]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[raw dust]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[raw dust]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[limpid sage]

I assume you have to send sectec insta after flag when you land?

I didn't get to try it yesterday D:

but we somehow oneshotted the mechanics in p3

[fleet acorn]

can anyone tell me for raid/m+ do i go both for leech or both avoidance ? [cloak/wrist]
i run so far with only leech but i checked top logs and theres just too much random stuff some even go for speed

mythic raiding 6/8 so far - progressing further
m+ 16 resilient so far trying to go higher

[vagrant fulcrum]

avoidance

[hazy breach]

Generally doesnt really matter, you can use whatever you prefer

[limpid sage]

I pref leech

but avoidance is also good

thing is that avoidance affects the stuff that feint works on, so I like leech more

[fleet acorn]

feel like when i check my self heal with leech its just insane

[hazy breach]

Love the fact that sectech still leeches the clones themselves and not us

[bleak night]

pets are fun

[opal mantle]

it doesnt stack ?

[hazy breach]

It does

But his point is that if you feint, youre not gonna die anyway

[opal mantle]

oh ok

[limpid sage]

Ye what eleem said

[limpid sage]

Only to poof a millisecond after kek

[hazy breach]

I personally dont think speed is good on rogues as were already pretty nimble, but dont think leech VS avoidance really matters much

Just get whatever you prefer

[limpid sage]

Yeah if speed was multiplicative it’d be nice

It’s sadly not though

What speed modifiers do we have that are always active btw?

I run around with 135% mms at all times but donno where it comes from, besides fleet footwork?

[hazy breach]

15% from fleet in the class tree, 20% during dance & stealth from shadowrunner and then 20% from fade to nothing

[limpid sage]

I feel like I have it outside of stealths

might remember wrong

[fossil forge]

Speedyboy

https://tenor.com/view/flash-run-fast-gif-26117167

Me with all speed enchants when i press sprint

[fallow nimbus]

Speed > rest

Leech is useless outside of cds and for avoidance we have feint

Speed caps at +49% btw

From the stat

[fossil forge]

i would be rocking avoidance if i had any on my gear

got 0 items with extra stats

[maiden oar]

i just reenchanted my stuff to speed bc i only raid and with 730 and 15% healer increase buff i can never die

so might as well run really fast

but i was avoidance etc in prog

and for prog next tier im going to get defensive enchants again and the cycle will repeat

[eager latch]

are you guys using two separate binds for forge + prism?

or just putting /use forge before /prism?

[vale pine]

two binds

[fleet acorn]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[minor spruce]

I can't decide for my last dinars. I have Lily and Netherprism... I messed up and bought a dagger with dinars. so i'm debating whether to get Araz, Pacemaker or Antenna. Kinda want to play Assassination too

[steel zinc]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[eager latch]

thanks fuu, you're the goat

[grizzled sphinx]

hey, why is it that in Nexus King M fight most Rogues in logs can send 2nd Flagelation at timestemp 01:24 but cooldown is 01:30. i dont understand 🙂

[ripe flame]

blessing of autumn

[tired dome]

Is Shadow Techniques broken, or is my WA tracker messed up? Seems like it doesnt refresh the CP to full sometimes when its at 6

[limpid sage]

It only refreshes if it can grant you full cp

[tired dome]

Am I supposed to be timing my finisher to go right when it hits 6 then?

Randomly Ill get it to refresh twice in a row and I'll literally just Evis like 3 times straight

[limpid sage]

You have 7 combo points, so you need 7 stacks of it to refresh

But it’s not something you play around no

Except pooling before flag

[tired dome]

Okay thanks, its just annoying seeing the WA tracker showing 6 CP for Shadow Techniques and then expecting my CP to refresh, but it doesnt

[light finch]

should i fish for coup de grace before the 3 phase burn on dimensius ?

[left ledge]

can you immune mailroom soak with evasion

someone say you cant anymore

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[errant ferry]

am i an idiot or can i not make a macro to shadowstep to a specific person in my raid?

[left ledge]

you can

/cast [@name] Shadowstep

should work

if you've done that and its not working, you likely have shadowstep on your main bar that swaps when you stealth and need to put the macro on your stealth bar too (or non-stealth bar too)

alternatively though, you can just use a focus step macro too, that way you're not locked into stepping one person

[clear scroll]

Which is doing better in keys 10-16, sub or assa?

[fleet acorn]

Dh/fury war/dk/bm hunter -> quick invites + 3 button rotation and meta and can play 1 handed while drinking a beer

[clear scroll]

Saying i should keep gearing my frost dk eh?

[fleet acorn]

Do whatever u want but from my experience playing rogue this season in m+ is like tilting my ass i afk all night in dornogal 16 reserve key done - can only play my own key where -200 rio only joins and +14 timed - declined farming all day

[clear scroll]

Just coming back to the game. DK and Rog both 700 ilvl

[fleet acorn]

U wont get invited people just think rogue is trash they just look for dk/dhs/fury wars or bm hunters

[tidal marsh]

Fury nod is kinda fake, but FDK, HDH and BM are free slides into groups

[willow mantle]

is anyone here very skilled with sims?

im trying to improve my gear but every sim is saying there is not a single upgrade that possibly exists

which i refuse to believe

[hard trellis]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[hard trellis]

anyone have this shadow dance + backstab macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[hazy breach]

!backstab

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[hard trellis]

thanks idk why im dumb as shit

[shrewd lantern]

you probably have very minor sidegrades at best

like if every slot is 730 besides embellish

[willow mantle]

yeah i mean im basically there, minus crafted neck

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/winterhoof/slaphapypapy/

i just figured there would be like a couple more percent i could squeeze out somehow

[warm marlin]

zero chance you find percentage upgrades ur pretty much full bis

[willow mantle]

yeah i was checking topgear and trying every combination of ring/necklace i thought would be better, momma’s mega medallion, salhadar’s folley, logic gate alpha, etc, but legit nothing moved the needle more than like .1%

[fossil forge]

Only upgrade i can get is the neck from priory

But it doesnt exist

[upper rock]

someone care to explain to me as to why finality 1/2 seems to be stronger in m+ than the rotten this season?

[tepid trellis]

more finisher dmg compared to last season

is the short answer

[shrewd lantern]

because gear is pretty much done

sub sims suck

[hazy breach]

As long as you dont have haste its fine

[orchid oriole]

Is sub king in m+ atm?

[willow mantle]

damn thats kinda demotivating lol, appreciate the help tho 🫡

[left ledge]

For rogue sure

In general, no

Rogue hasn’t been the meta pick for quite a bit tbh, just doesn’t bring much to the table

[opal mantle]

its ok its just slightly worse than all meta specs

as always

[left ledge]

We just have nothing really

Aoe blind and kidney I guess

[opal mantle]

lol

yeah nothing

[tulip remnant]

how's cursed stone idol in practice? my sim wants me to use it, but i've got lily and forge and myth pacemaker
so i'm curious if it can be used on sub or it's just not a thing due to its channel time

[hazy breach]

Its fine

But you should probably get prism, because its by far the best trinket for sub

[tulip remnant]

thanks
i started playing this season like 9 days ago
will kill myth fractilus and get it from dinar prolly but in the meantime

i was curious

[warm marlin]

@maiden oar i concede that fast plexus is probably good even without autumn

crazy stuff

[maiden oar]

i wonder how to optimize it

im still undecided

[warm marlin]

prism seems insane to play

[maiden oar]

with autumn maybe its fine

but yeah i have 0 idea what optimal items are

[warm marlin]

ye but with autumn everything gets cursed anyway even with lily you won't have a trinket for 2nd cds

[maiden oar]

might spin a wheel tn

[warm marlin]

you have can have it for the back half of blades ig

[maiden oar]

so sad

its a fun puzzle but alot of my ideas are impossible to sim bc idk how to make it delay flag

so i think im just stuck to guessimg

[warm marlin]

maybe with the final 3% we can fast push

[maiden oar]

surely!

[fallow nimbus]

We are at max% at this point

Are we not?

[vale pine]

we are

if you have the reputation

[timid tangle]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[elder trout]

if a combo spender's tooltip only has values up to 6 combo points, does it still gain benefits from extra points like with supercharged points and such?

[warm marlin]

yes supercharger allows it to go above 7

[elder trout]

ok, just wanted to make sure it doesnt eat combo points, though i supposed that would have been mentioned in the guides

[sullen hare]

Yep

[plush roost]

histories greatest minds tackle 20 gambit

[shrewd lantern]

i see 2 cb chads in this ss

oh wait is 300 assa

[plush roost]

it was kingsbane assa, sub tea, sub cb

banger key we didnt time cause we died to soleah reandomly XD

[dim moat]

Quick Question, I was comparing my logs for Mythic Saladhar compared to a high ranked rogue, and my coup de grace casts are almost half of his, same with my unseen blades being so low compared to his. Aside from ensuring I cast the 2nd Coup, is it just RNG, or is there something I should be actively doing to promote more coups?

[ornate heron]

has there been a guild that has killed dimensius on their first time without two dks? and if so, how did they do it?

[warm marlin]

saw a clip of a mage blinking over and knocking the closest add

and dk gripping the other 2

[wild jay]

New sub on beta feels much much better

[honest saddle]

ummmm

where is symbols of death on beta

my god

it's gone.

OMG

rupture

MY BOY

LOOK WHAT THEY DID TO MY BOY

[hazy breach]

#midnight-subtlety

[young crypt]

WE ARE SO BACK

[minor sorrel]

Rupter is goned !

Symbols and Dance got merged.

haste wierdness got tuned back a lot.

[hazy breach]

#midnight-subtlety

[plush roost]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NkpKP96dvCTxXgHJ?fight=last&type=damage-done

i've peaked

holy samole

[tight fjord]

damn char

how many rogues are even on that list

[plush roost]

next highest is 400k down

[tight fjord]

i checked youre the best out of 1507 then

is this the first week with the 15% buff?

i've been gone

[warm marlin]

holy guacamole

[maiden oar]

ok im happy

i did well on dimmy finally

i thnk i understand everything now

[maiden oar]

insane

[warm marlin]

finally had a good dimensius pull after a night of getting inted for the artoshion flag half our pulls and i inted the amp

[maiden oar]

sob sob

[warm marlin]

[maiden oar]

i wouldve come close to charr on nexus king but someone had a starkiller incident

he is safe...

[maiden oar]

yeah i think i could do a little bit to guarantee cb sectech into shadowcraft coup on there right when all the dudes come in

with the fast p1

if i line it up better

[warm marlin]

disgusting fight and it only gets worse

[maiden oar]

well i think if u go super speed it could potentially be better

but u need to be FAST

like 0 buyer all gas go go fast

and that will never happen probably dimmy mount too lucrative

[graceful rock]

is forge just cooked on bosses 1-6?

[maiden oar]

depends

[plush roost]

man i hate dimmy

[maiden oar]

i think its good on loomithar if ur killtime isnt super insane fast

its good on soul hunter

[plush roost]

We push p1 at 1:45, we push arto before he even throws the second rock, we push pargoth normally

[maiden oar]

can be good on plexus depending on kt

and soulbinder its a personal prefernce thing i play 1x on use on that fight but i dont know if im right

[plush roost]

pargoth platform i just didnt press flag since it was up 10 seconds late

smodge

[maiden oar]

it just makes sense in my head

[maiden oar]

yeah ive been not flagging on pargoth recently

he isnt worth it

[plush roost]

yahp

[maiden oar]

wait

1:45 p1

what

[plush roost]

just sucks

[maiden oar]

thats insanely fast

do u not have buyers

[plush roost]

nah we were just speed clear this week

[maiden oar]

ah

[plush roost]

full blast

[maiden oar]

id just hold 2nd flag

for artoshion

[plush roost]

yep

thats what i did

[maiden oar]

that is the high speed thing i was envisioning being reallyu good

lucky u

[plush roost]

just sucks mang just sucks

[maiden oar]

oh

id be excited

in my head that goes INSANE

[plush roost]

Well it'd be SUPER cool

if arto phased

[maiden oar]

well

[plush roost]

at a normal time

[maiden oar]

do u get uh

5min pot

[plush roost]

but it was definitely not cool after that

[maiden oar]

if u pot on opener

pushing that fast

oh i was thinking

flag 1 pot forge
flag 2 artoshion forge
nothing
flag 3 prism pot explode amp

i think if u go that fast the good flags are a higher % of the time in the fight probably

and it evens out

[plush roost]

okay i lied

it just felt like 1:45

[maiden oar]

ah

[plush roost]

it was 2:04

[maiden oar]

ic

[plush roost]

still cringe ngl

[maiden oar]

yeah

idk what the flag 2 play is then

[plush roost]

I held

send arto

[maiden oar]

[plush roost]

held pargoth

[maiden oar]

did it feel good

[plush roost]

No

LOL

[maiden oar]

i want to experiemnt with it but idk if ill ever get a chance to

oh ok

[graceful rock]

what about araz timing if were placing behind

cooked? same?

[plush roost]

I think next time i go flag on cd, flag pargoth, pray for the same phase timing

but idk its just cursed no matter what u do tbh

[maiden oar]

what do u mean placing behindim a noob

[plush roost]

parsed 75 tho ehhh not bad for basically missing 2 casts

[maiden oar]

ive come to the conclusion that p2 dam is fake

[plush roost]

@warcraft logs remove p2 from the partition!

[maiden oar]

every good log i check has sub rogue at the top of p1 p3 and a few steps below top guy in p2

probably ok to sac p2 somewhat

[plush roost]

yeah p3

went sickomode

[graceful rock]

placing the adds on araz behind the pools so they just run through

[maiden oar]

can cloak and stand in pool

if its during a flag aet

set

dance timings should be so sectech hits when orbs are on boss

so place behind doesnt matter

[warm marlin]

shadowstep the drop guys last second

[maiden oar]

itll only matter if u are in flag

[warm marlin]

feint sprint and run through last second

lots of options

[maiden oar]

and surely u dont get it on both flag sets

and u can cloak

or step yeah

[warm marlin]

I tried stepping a dk on a drop today and learned that he just doesnt move and then grips it into the puddle

insane work

[maiden oar]

hehehehe

[plush roost]

I accidentally ran my soul hunters setup with replicating on that nexus king kill and it may be parse tech lowkey

Thats the platform rupture damage

Kinda insano

[warm marlin]

no symbols crit for amp and adds?

nah but i dont think rs is bad on nk

[plush roost]

Yeee i forgot

Man fuck imagine the extra crits on amp

[plush roost]

Finality damage makes up for it a little bit? Those are some meaty coups

[warm marlin]

finality coup bug

[plush roost]

Smodge

[warm marlin]

[tepid trellis]

Thats what ive always been running on it

[plush roost]

Not the PV Rotten setup...

With... shadowfocus?

[warm marlin]

its tech

tech that i completely failed to enact

but no not SF

[plush roost]

Whats the uh, tech

Fw spread into powder with rotten?

[maiden oar]

yeah i saw alot of good logs running rs on nexus king

i was doing it for a bit but i couldnt justify it internally so i stopped

maybe its correct though that rupture does go crazy

[warm marlin]

Damage amp cheese

[sweet sedge]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[plush roost]

Thatd be sick if the amp wasnt ending 5 seconds early

We had nk at like 13% when dragon died lmao

[tepid trellis]

tell people to hit boss and not dragon

during the 2 target phase

[plush roost]

Yeah we did the entire time

We had to ask, "does this boss phase at 10 or 15%?"

[tepid trellis]

im in dire need of autumn

[plush roost]

First night i got autumn with this guild

Felt so niiice

[tepid trellis]

we double boosted so it wasent that bad

but our hpal was sitting last 2

[plush roost]

Playing my flag window during ghosts is really annoying lmao

[maiden oar]

u get used to it

i just uh

sac the coup tick if i have t o break eye contact with the boss though

if ur not doing that then its terrifying

tbh i probably could get a bit into his model and move in a specific way to not lose the coup tick without it being as risky if the ghosts spawn like 180 degrees apart

but its too scary

[lethal glen]

Do we have any midnight trial builds posted anywhere?

[outer cloak]

Don’t think so. You can watch shindig he’s testing some stuff out at the moment.

[alpine wraith]

in the midnight channel there are

[woeful barn]

!PRISM

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[vale pine]

#midnight-subtlety

stealthi added a pin for talent builds

[void ocean]

what happens if the Flag target dies before we finished stacking

[mossy sun]

you die irl

[wheat cloak]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[wheat cloak]

wait im looking for the macro where if in steath cheapshot if not kidney shot

[vale pine]

it changes to the permanent buff with the stack amount you have

[vale pine]

need to repalce the names with the full ones but sth like this should work
/cast [bonusbar:1] cheap; kidney

[void ocean]

so it could be risky to flag Dimmy P1 adds on pull

[vale pine]

you don't need to use flag on the target you attack

so you can always just flag on dimmy

and then attack the adds

you still stack up with your finishers

[void ocean]

hmm alright, that could be managed

[wheat cloak]

ahh thank you

[fossil forge]

u can flag dimmy skip strike and go straight into cds If ur guildmates are oneshotting the masses

s/o stealthi for the tip

[dense coyote]

Any info in regards to the new updates to sub I just saw in here ?

I noticed rupture and symbols are going

[void ocean]

#midnight-subtlety

[dense coyote]

Thank you

[alpine wraith]

yea lots of discussion going on

[fossil forge]

https://x.com/taliesinevitel/status/1991108504833167564?s=46&t=EulfrmFj9sMYIdpdbSxfSw

Xaliesin & Evitel (@TaliesinEvitel)

In Midnight you can make different transmogs for (among many other things) walking, flying, ground mounts and swimming and you will automatically switch between them as the situation demands!

X · Nov 19, 2025, 11:37 AM

@maiden oar

Time to get silly

[maiden oar]

i might stay a clown

that is the silliest outfit

[fossil forge]

Nooo but diver for swimming

We need to Spice it up

[maiden oar]

true

ok if it doesnt cost gold ill bring the diver back

[fossil forge]

Boy do i have some bad News

You get first 2 slots for free then its paid

I think it totals to 800k each char

[limpid sage]

I've had hpal for literally every boss except the 2 I need him for T_T

he didn't feel comfortable on nexus king

[maiden oar]

oh i meant autoswapping

if swimming

is it -1k whenever i enter or exit water

[fossil forge]

I have 0 clue

I just know the slots will cost

[maiden oar]

ah ok

thats fine i need less than 10

[fossil forge]

nah but 😭 imagine if

dat would be crazy HAHA

[maiden oar]

u never know

[stable mulch]

anyone knows why im getting knocked back further than my guidies on p1 dimensius

im barely staying on the platform

[alpine wraith]

did you jump

[stable mulch]

nope

[alpine wraith]

get fatter then

you slim jimmy

[stable mulch]

dang i'm a gnome

[warm marlin]

cancel the knockback with shadowstep on a friendly dk or dh and never have to worry about it

[alpine wraith]

it is also angle tbh

[stable mulch]

im pretty much stacked on my guildmates

not sure what's the difference

[bleak night]

Gnomes have bad things happen to them as they deserve

[void ocean]

btw coming back to this, wdym skip strike

like just flag dimmy out of stealth then tab to add and do SD+SoD+backstab etc?

[narrow shadow]

Am I missing something? Or The rotation is just now Shadowstrike/Shuriken Storm -> Evis/BP and Sectec on CD during shadow dance

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[narrow shadow]

Well, before we had disjointed CDs, CDR, rupture, shadow symbols outside of dance sometimes ,etc

[vale pine]

there are some otpimizations, but yes thats the core

[limpid sage]

@warm marlin idk I do the fast route like you did but somehow still had 2 seconds left

insta sending flag landing on platform as well

do you have the % mount speed equipment increase perchance

or is it skill issue

[warm marlin]

i dont think those boosts work with skyriding

[limpid sage]

I know the parachute works

[warm marlin]

i dont have any mount equipment though

idek to equip it

[alpine wing]

those sub changes are finally good?

fuck symbols all my homies hate symbols

[vale pine]

its a mixed bag

symbols of death got its life drained out of it already

so it makes sense to remove it

rupture similar, it was just very weak

[alpine wing]

kinda redundant to everything sub wanted to do

which was to line up CDs and burst

Backstabs still a irrelevant button?

[vale pine]

backstab and gloomblade are still weak compared to other spells

rupture felt meh, but not using rupture makes the button presses very similar

[alpine wing]

now we have like 5 buttons?

[vale pine]

you don't have much reason to use other cooldowns

kinda yes

[alpine wing]

idk if that good or

maybe they buff danse and make it the monk 2.0

[vale pine]

backszab/strike/evis are your rotation

secret, dance and blades your cooldowns

in aoe you replace backstab with storm and evis with bp

which is very simple

[alpine wing]

that thing that pressing storm instead of backstab ever

with the new clone talent

worth it or whatever?

the new tornado

storm also gets buffed on stealth

[vale pine]

maybe

danse macabre could make storm in dance a thing

[alpine wing]

oh, weaponstrikes mandatory now

[vale pine]

but you would only use it once

[alpine wing]

I'm looking at every Shadow dmg talent we got

looks like extra % shadow dmg might be worth it

we get it on apex and on brew

[vale pine]

tornado is a similar one for storm

but ye

[alpine wing]

you'll be updating the midnight sub rogue first impressions??

[vale pine]

i can probably write a forum post

[alpine wing]

cool

[vale pine]

but i need to play a bit more with it, changes just happened

[alpine wing]

ye ye ofc

[alpine wing]

i like this more than what we had

[vale pine]

was my impression, from earlier today

[alpine wing]

still feels like we're the shadowstrike spec

[vale pine]

it is better in some parts

[alpine wing]

and honestly, sub always been the Shadow Dance Ambush, maybe lean on that

[vale pine]

its still early, so i hope for a bit more changes/iteration

but for people loving super simplified rotations with little depth, it isn't too bad as is

[honest saddle]

seems like atm all the damage is baked into strike

[tepid trellis]

evis is still top dmg

[honest saddle]

yeah if you count coup as evisc

I guess technically coup is the highest dam

then evisc

then strike

[hazy breach]

Even without that

[warm marlin]

hmm with the blades bug and not having much haste this is slightly miserable

i do not have enough sht

[hazy breach]

Yeah i dont think apex3 is worthwhile on ST

With the bug

[ripe flame]

what's the bug? I did all of testing with apex3

[tulip remnant]

is fel rush on myth soul hunters soloable with cloak of shadows?