subtlety

[scenic plover]

or should i just not care about my dam tehre

[warm marlin]

is your pargoth dying well ahead of time

[scenic plover]

like i dont really wanna see someone else fail my orb now

[scenic plover]

no

well we moved hero off plat2 today and got 1 good pull basically with no hero to finish pargoth during wind start

[warm marlin]

i would swap your orb

[scenic plover]

so whats the strat then, i fly fast to each plattform without orb and use my cds basically when landing and then i have it ready on p3?

[warm marlin]

yep

learn the fast route

grouch linked it recently from shindig's pov

[scenic plover]

oh i need to fly some faster route?

is that risky?

[warm marlin]

not really

it helps with cd timings

if you do it fast enough flag comes up as amp starts

[scenic plover]

what if my tanks land later than me then ?

and autumn would only be value if i got it on plattform 2 right?

[cyan cobalt]

evasion while ur landing

and yea autumn in p2.2 after u pop cds, can be during them as well

[stable knot]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[scenic plover]

would a holy pal always have that ready?

or is that some rng thing

[cyan cobalt]

ye shud be 100% reliable, unless he/she forgets

[clever delta]

@warm marlin around

guys how do i play dimmy now

do i just skip cds in second platform to have it for amp in P3?

[chrome palm]

Depends on timings and autumn availability

[clever delta]

ok but in general

do i play to have EVERY TIME cds for amp

[warm marlin]

yes

or well

[chrome palm]

That is the most important part of the fight

[warm marlin]

im not sure

[clever delta]

ok so no cds in second plaftorm for me

[warm marlin]

if you're just looking to pad numbers idk

you do a lot of damage in amp tho

[clever delta]

we did not kill tonight so i will hacve some fun on monday when everyone will grap their upgrades too

[chrome palm]

Are you using double on use

[warm marlin]

like this was forge on artoshion

you get to do infinite damage in the amp

[clever delta]

i dont have autumn so even if i use second platform as soon as i land i wont have full cds at P3

[warm marlin]

if you hold dps correct the entire fight you can send on both platforms and have it up for amp if you fly perfect

its how i played prog

(without autumn)

[clever delta]

cool

[warm marlin]

but idk what prog looks like now

[clever delta]

ye

its not progg

[warm marlin]

o

[clever delta]

but its kinda weird

[warm marlin]

ye

if you aren't holding pixel perfect its all cursed

[clever delta]

im just trying to cook something but idk what

[hazy breach]

Like ryldd says, if youre not holding constantly then everything is fucked

[clever delta]

we did hold P1 tonight

and first platform we stopped little

but as i said even i pop second platform immidetiely im not getting second sectech in amp

[warm marlin]

you need to hold pargoth until winds and arto until the gravities

i havent seen those in weeks

p1 hold doesnt matter tbh

you could just skip second use

[clever delta]

and how do i go about with cds

i mean trinkets

[warm marlin]

idk its all so depressing, if you play 2x on use you can forge/prism p1, forge arto, prism amp but then you don't use forge at all for the entire fight other than pull and arto

you can send it with dances or whatever

if you play prism passive you don't have a trinket for p1 and you can't send arto without missing some stacks for amp

[chrome palm]

Move out with anti gravity in p3 to extend the kill timing

[warm marlin]

real

just wait until you magically find a way to do the fight with 4 buyers

saved

[clever delta]

i guees i just do that

i just skip cds in second platform and call it a day

i will copy this gigachad

[chrome palm]

Don’t check that guys last kill of sprocketmonger at ~3:00

[tepid trellis]

its rng it has a random reset mechanic outside of the 20sec icd and Sectech giving 1 stack on next two builders

[tired dome]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[tired dome]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[warm marlin]

killing your own raiders and gm is worth

they got what was coming to them

[patent crystal]

can coup "steal" cold bold, if you coup before sectech? Like one of the hits use the CB?

[tepid trellis]

Yes

[lilac stag]

@warm marlin did you have any luck with the csmacro?

[tepid trellis]

If u Press cb before the gcd is over

[patent crystal]

aight thanks

[alpine wraith]

yea coup hits 3 times

so it can eat it up

funnily enough they made it so all crit with cb

but sec tech still better to cb

[warm marlin]

didnt have time to set it up before raid

it was crest farming season

[lilac stag]

servers being late was 💩

[warm marlin]

joys of being a tuesday raider

[deep iron]

i have lily and edict trinket, should i get antenna or prism for the vendor?

i assume prisms but having 2 use trinket might be odd or i just macro it?

[brisk thunder]

Is it worth to 4 or 5cp coup in dance or nah?(since our finishjng rules are 6+ and coup is basically 5cp more evis)

[twin quartz]

Hell you can send at 1 cp if you want

Yeah

[chrome palm]

lily -> lily -> prism -> lily -> prism -> lily -> prism (cont.) is OK

get prism

[deep iron]

what does this mean sorry

[maiden oar]

lily first and 2nd flag

prism 3rd flag bc it has 18 stacks

lily 4th flag -> prism 5th flag bc it has 18 stacks and repeat

if its like 17 stacks because of a disaster of some sort thats also fine

[warm depot]

idk how many more keys i can do

ive been doing keys all day

i went from 719 to 727

ahhhh

[pine mirage]

Any recent Dimmy killers here? Post turbo boost I got a question abuot timings

[dense swallow]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[errant ferry]

They going to make up have permanent dance next in midnight. These guys are cooked

[lofty quartz]

guys a question in single target when do i have to use shiv?

[tepid trellis]

never

[hexed sluice]

When your fury warrior gets mindcontroled

[wary flower]

Trying to understand the Cooldown manager timing for Flag. The buff timer at the top of the screen last several seconds longer than the buff tracker in the cooldown manager. Anyone else experience this?

[tepid trellis]

flag is a 2 part spell

12 sec debuff on your target

then another 12 sec buff on you

so it likely doesent know that i should prolly track the full 24 sec

[wary flower]

Ah, that makes sense.

[upbeat sorrel]

we are so close

[maiden oar]

soon

[bleak night]

wtf

[deft igloo]

Is it generally more valuable to go double on-use with Lily and Netherprism if I don't have a ritual forge yet or does it make more sense to use something like pacemaker instead until I do?

[alpine wraith]

depends on the boss

a few benefit from using prism at 3 mins or later

because of amps or moving dmg from one phase to another

otherwise pacemaker is fine

[deft igloo]

What about M+?

[alpine wraith]

that one is personal choice

you can control when to prism and when to lilly

you can even use both on the same pull

then use lilly a bit later on next set

[deft igloo]

hmm interesting, is it likely that lily+prism will outperform prism+pacemaker for m+ tho?

I simmed pacemaker for dungeon slice but I believe that's just for a single instance of a pull rather than the entire dungeon

and it simmed higher than having lily+prism

I just figure it's pretty valuable to be able to stack prism and use another on-use in the meantime

rather than just having a passive out of pacemaker

[shrewd lantern]

double on use isnt all that in keys

esp when you are ripping immediately off cd

[warm marlin]

Getting grippy with it

[deft igloo]

I'm not sure what you mean

[barren haven]

@hazy breach so I took prism, ran the first three Keys and well:
i love it

Thank you all for your advice

[shrewd lantern]

forge is a zdps trinket

as long as you're holding

[vale pine]

forge is good

[shrewd lantern]

compared to a passive which gives you the agi always

[vale pine]

thats true, but i think thats cooldowns in general

[shrewd lantern]

yeah

[vale pine]

a lot of people with bad performance on subtlety

simply don't use their cooldowns enough

[shrewd lantern]

people's poor performance is often holding too long

and using double on use while holding too long

is even worse

some tanks it feels real bad though to send flag into a 2 pack

[deft igloo]

Is it still better to send into a 2 pack though lol

[cloud rover]

It really depends on your tank tbh in keys

If you tank delays or waits too long

[shrewd lantern]

depends how long till next

[cloud rover]

your trinkets desync

[shrewd lantern]

the less skilled your tank

often you just sit on your thumbs

[cloud rover]

Yeah

Like full CDs and 18 stack Prism and tank refuses to chain with 2 mobs at 40%

[shrewd lantern]

or worse the tanks that split an easy pack

into 2 tiny pulls

[deft igloo]

but with lily it's up every cooldown set, is it still not really that big of a deal between a passive and double on-use with lily?

[shrewd lantern]

lily isnt that good

people talking double on use mean forge and prism together

[deft igloo]

lily's the only other on-use I've got that's why I'm asking xD

for now at least

So then it's better to take pacemaker then

[shrewd lantern]

unless you know your tank

and know they're gonna pull big

[deft igloo]

Gotcha

[shrewd lantern]

idk

any tank 12 and below is usually clueless imo

[deft igloo]

Are there rules for sending netherprism generally? I don't imagine I can just macro it lol

[shrewd lantern]

with blades

or every other if second set is more value

[deft igloo]

like if it lines up with a massive pull and it would be more valuable to hold for the following set with 18 I'm guessing

[cloud rover]

or for dmg amps

[deft igloo]

makes sense

[cloud rover]

like on dimensius, i use my prism one time

and thats for P3 dmg amp

Because DMG Stops

[alpine wraith]

yea after turbo boost

and even next week with another 3%

p1 will be like less than 2 mins LUL

maybe we just tell 2 min people to not use it again on p1

and use on platform 1 when we use them again when they are up then hold until p3 for us 1:30

[cloud rover]

We already did

that

tbh

They should nerf like 10-15% of health on Dimensius P3

and maybe another 5% on the platform adds

and cd alignment is kinda whatever

[haughty rose]

why are we either using vers flask or alchemical chaos flask and instead of mastery flask? is it because of overcapping?

[alpine wraith]

if you have a cooldown that gives you 70% mastery

and quite a bit from gear

mastery flask loses quite a bit of power as we have dr on stats

apart from how the math for dmg works

if you have a lot of something the others become better

[haughty rose]

ok i see thank you

another topic

i just compared myth and HC forge with myth antenna. on dungeons slice antenna absolutely trashes forge but on patchwerk 6 bosses 5 minutes forge trashes antenna.

both simmed at 40% antenna miss rate

why is that?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tDto3TjQURbAietRb8igB9

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ijc83P8Pj5muPFMwU5EvBa

[cloud rover]

Also if you use mastery flask

you dont get mastery with tempered potion

With alchemical Chaos you get all stats

iirc

[keen dome]

Yeah, correct. Chaos has no specific stat so it doesn't count as any, so the pot gives you all of them.

[formal estuary]

curious how diminishing returns work - the wowhead guide on DR says DR starts at 30%, but I'm at 99%. It also says for level 80 characters it takes 700 mastery for 1% mastery - and I get nearly double that. Given the relatively low amount of mastery rating per % mastery for sub is there some special math here

!mastery 😄 worth a shot

[alpine wraith]

mastery works on stat number not on %

as all specs have diff scalings

[vale pine]

^ there is no universal calculation

but also, simulations take mastery into consideration

[wispy crystal]

netherprism 717 to 730 is actually 2.8% DPS increase for me.

With 13 ilevels holy moly

thats really crazy how strong this trinket is

[fossil forge]

How much does agi does 730 forge give

41k something

[hazy breach]

41472, but it loses 1.2k every second so on average its like 28k or so during cds

[noble shale]

for forgeweave mythic should i be delaying opener to try line it with amp phase?

we progging so kill time will be fairly high

[alpine wraith]

yea you dance on 20 secs

[haughty rose]

how telling are those logs? it's all on priory and the top log from right now (9 mil) is with HC forge. the rest is with either myth antenna or the older one HC antenna. the second top log (8 mil) was def with myth antenna but the run itself also took 8 minutes longer. could those 8 minutes mean 1 mil dps less or is it for my case indeed HC forge > myth antenna

[violet palm]

Is it ok to open like this if Coup is ready?

[hazy breach]

Not sure why youre backstabbing twice before flag, and you shouldnt really storm twice

Also use trinket+blades before sectech

[ivory vigil]

too many factors, variability of 1-2mil is normal based on kill times, pull sizes, group composition etc. Raidbots dungeon slice should give you a clearer picture

[hazy breach]

And if youre like "hey i saw top logs use trinkets+blades after sectech" yeah thats from previous seasons where you could feasibly get an extra global of blades by skipping the initial damage of sectech. This season if you get 4 coups in your blades you only get that extra global if you:

• Have literally no delay inbetween your attacks at all AND
• Use the trinket+blades exactly 0.8-0.99 seconds after you pressed sectech

When i checked top logs a while back out of all the people doing that delay thing 2 out of 30 i looked at got the extra gcd

All the 28 others just lost damage on their sectech for no reason, although it is a very small amount of damage that doesnt matter that much tbf

[ivory vigil]

As an extreme example you can have 10+mil if a group dies shortly after your shadow blades expires, versus 5mil if the other DPS are lacking and you're outside your CDs for longer

[violet palm]

Backstabbing to not waste energy. Double storm is bugged logs for some reason always shows 2 unless you mean to use Backstab or Shadowstrike instead of Storm in one instance

[violet palm]

This one is really helpful. I used to press blades before first sectech then compared to other logs when they do it right after

[hazy breach]

Im aware it shows 2 storms per cast, but theres 2 casts

[north schooner]

it's two casts of storm in there despite the two spell ids per cast (not a bug, one is for the cp generation)

[hazy breach]

Also i dont understand the backstab bit

Just send flag

Oh nvm its not the opener yeah nvm disregard the backstab bit

[violet palm]

So first storm should be replaced to backstab, noted. What if I have UB stack and Coup ready? Still backstab?

[hazy breach]

Or storm, but dont storm twice

Like if you know youll get a refund inbetween your coups the storm first is fine

But if you dont have much sht and youll have to build inbetween both of them then one should be a backstab

[violet palm]

No storming back to back, got it. Really appreciate the help

[hazy breach]

Previous seasons where we didnt coup as much the window to get this extra global was way easier to hit

But since coup for some reason has a 1.2s gcd

Its very hard to do it this season, and it was barely worth it before anyway

[limpid sage]

mastery dr is calculated through mastery points and each class has a different mastery coefficient that uses these mastery points iirc

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/how-mastery-works-world-of-warcraft

[tight fjord]

Pretty close to perfect I think

At least for dps

[cloud rover]

You need to toggle to keylvl

Like there to dmg

and press this, to see your logs for the Keylvl

[limpid sage]

I think it's just bugged

[hazy breach]

No

[limpid sage]

it's 1 millisecond after though?

[hazy breach]

If you read the rest of it

[hazy breach]

Yes

thats not what im talking about

#subtlety message

[limpid sage]

oh but that's neutral

but yes I did misunderstand the initial comment

[nova cairn]

AM I FULL BIS

DID WE FINALLY DO IT?

[limpid sage]

Buy another ring

Also holy crit

[nova cairn]

Apparently

This is what my sim wants

[cloud rover]

My sim says, that i want you

[nova cairn]

Hi Tira

[cloud rover]

Hey Ruby

[mild lance]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[feral barn]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[north schooner]

these 2 are different spell ids. One is the damage component and the other is the get cp per target component (don't ask me why they are separate)

it's the same with FoK and BF (with deft maneuvers) they all show double

[round latch]

thats one big girl right there

(i mean your rogue)

also dont fall for tiramil

[limpid sage]

yeah exactly - I just misunderstood what Eleem was talking about. He was talking about not using storm twice in the same dance

[north schooner]

yeah the other guy misunderstood too

[haughty rose]

i just refuse to fully believe dungeon slice when it comes to antenna vs forge

theres no way myth antenna sims 1% better than myth forge on 40% miss chance but HC forge sims 0,6% better than antenna on patchwerk 6 targets 5 minutes

[haughty rose]

i mean look at this. some things are wrong with dungeon slice

[hazy breach]

If you use your cds literally on cd double on-use is good

The more you need to hold your cds the worse it is

(also the longer the fight is the worse it is)

Also 40% miss is obscene

[haughty rose]

so dungeon slice is holding CD's a lot i assume?

in a real dungeon i rarely hold CD's tbf. especially in 15+ where i have usually 2 CD phases at the boss and they are ready for the usually big pull after boss

[hazy breach]

You hold it a lot more than you'd expect

If you actually look at the logs

Most logs i checked a while back (so like +19s) were using their forge roughly every 4 minutes instead of 5

Sometimes they had 5 minutes inbetween their forge uses

[haughty rose]

i checked countless logs for antenna uptime and it varies between 5% and 25%. 40% is pessimistic but with that i try to account for antenna procs when not even dance is up or between packs. the buff itself falls off rather quickly and oberlapse with CD's is usually less than you think

[hazy breach]

Well you can just not pick up the orbs if youre not in dance

Which the sim does not do

[haughty rose]

i could and i tried doing that but honestly... nah. having to dodge orbs is not a fun experience for me

also there is dawnbreaker where the orbs literally get stuck 2m away from you and once you come closer to them they actually dodge you

it's a troll

[haughty rose]

i just checked a random no sweat +12 crest farm log on flood

had 14 flag casts in a 24:50 dungeon. that's 4 minutes off CD or 16% of the whole run

doesn't sound too bad all actually

[warm marlin]

I’m a convert

I’m sorry you’re gonna have to take the fight on your own

[hazy breach]

Im barely playing the game

I aint fighting shit

[mild lance]

which is harder, ww monk or sub rogue?

[warm marlin]

[uneven scarab]

whichever you dont put effort into

[vale pine]

subtlety is currently the hardest spec in wow of any dps

[kind river]

I keep getting to kings hunger on mythic with about 8 seconds left on flag, am I just supposed to suck it up and send the first dance early so I go into flag with no shadow technique points?

[warm marlin]

You can either send a dance first, or you can pool and get a big flag triple dance off

[tepid trellis]

if you wait the third one wont be in the amp

[warm marlin]

You will lose 1 second of the third dance

Or like 2-3

I think triple dance is still stronger because you can pool properly unlike if you dance first

[kind river]

Would kill for an autumn buff or whichever one gives cd reduction, I see a ton of llorgs entries where these guys are able to pop 2nd flag of the fight at 1:24

But we dont have a holy pally

[warm marlin]

And prism/flag covering more of that third dance is good even if you lose a few seconds

[plush roost]

Yeah im a full antenna enjoyer in keys now

The 8k agi + any orb procs in cds is just so much better for boss dam

[tepid trellis]

im 1 sec late here cuz of platform shenanigans

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message

6 seconds into amp my flag comes up without autumn

[shut burrow]

if i already have hero rizz boots and hero ritual forge, whats the dinar prio between myth version of the two?

[plush roost]

Sim angle, or myth prism

[shut burrow]

already have myth prism

[kind river]

Are we just denying ourselves time by killing platforms too fast or something

[plush roost]

Boots are more permament tho, u may consider going antenna or playing assa

[kind river]

My flag isnt ready 5 seconds into burn

[tepid trellis]

no its timer based

[shut burrow]

fugg assa that spec is boring af rn

[tepid trellis]

you just arent sending it exactly on CD

[kind river]

And I'm not missing a millisecond of previous flag cd

[warm marlin]

you need to cast flag literally instantly

[kind river]

I thought of that already but I'm not

[tepid trellis]

well youa re

[warm marlin]

The amp always starts at 4:25

[tepid trellis]

otherwise it would be up

so

[warm marlin]

So your 90s should come up at 4:31

I also screwed up in that video, if you do flag straight into dance sectec you’ll only lose the last second of the third dance

Since amp runs 4:25-4:55 and dance starting at 4:32-4:55 is 23 seconds

[kind river]

Are we talking like, it's your first global on pull instead of bs first?

Shadowstrike, rather not bs

[warm marlin]

no no, should just be strike 0:00, flag 0:01/1:31/3:01/4:31

Your last p3 pull yesterday you did flag exactly 6s into the amp

Which is the earliest it can be (looked at the exact timings again)

The others had like 2-3s delays on the add platform it seems

[kind river]

I must be getting old as hell because I made a note of this possible problem and started pressing flag on CD instant, like pre-mashing it but I can clearly see on one of the logs it's like flag at 2s, 1:35, 3:09

Like wtf

Am I playing with some kind of bad setting or something and my gcd is slower like what's happening

[crystal bone]

a lot of ppl like to strike evis for snd, vanish strike flag

but definitely dont want to do that on nexus king opener

u need those 4 seconds xD

[mild lance]

@vale pinehaha really? not outlaw?

[tepid trellis]

according to alot of people no

[kind river]

On that same pull the log is showing me I casted flag at 4:42, I must be looking at something incorrectly

[tepid trellis]

outlaw is still somewhat intuitive to play, its just fast

[vale pine]

you can make anything harder if you min/max to the extreme

which is the main argument around outlaw

its hard to hit each gcd perfect as perfect can be situational

and your gcd is lower

do you lose much if you fuck up?

no

do you lose much if you fuck up on subtlety

hell yes

bottom line is, difficultly is very subjective to the person playing

[warm marlin]

that’s the real truth

[vale pine]

looking at it objectively, subtlety just has a lot more going on.
Also from feedback i get from people who play rogue, it seems like people have the hardest time learning and performing on subtlety

some parts of it change in midnight

e.g. having static cooldowns vs. the dynamic ones we have atm

losing buttons

some qol changes like find weakness as a buff instead of a debuff on your target

all of these things reduce complexity and just theoretically lower the knowlage requirement for learning

[kind river]

The dynamic cd thing is tricky on some fights for me but fortunately I can go look at llorgs

[vale pine]

i think a very good example is the 4-3 rule

subtlety becomes a lot easier to understand for many people

if you give them a static rule to follow

so once you tell them

• 4 dances during your first 90 sec
• 3 dance during yoru second 90 sec
• repeat

it becomes a lot simpler

can then add how each dance plays

e.g. how you would always back to back dance with blades/flag at the start of the 90 sec

but all of this is basically learning by results

its like learning addition by memorizing the outcome

and its not something you discover intuitively

[dusky nymph]

is it possible to run lily and netherprism? According to my sim it's much better then Seaforium, but it seems super awkward. I assume just rotate usages?

[vale pine]

you can run prism + lilly

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[vale pine]

^ has the use for each trinket combination

[dusky nymph]

tysm ❤️

wait, does that mean we use prism with blades or without?

I assume with?

[hazy breach]

Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades

[dusky nymph]

ait ty!

[hazy breach]

One of the chinese guys that were doing decently high keys were playing antenna in some keys too last i checked

But idk doesnt matter much for me, i had to buy prism because we have only had 1 drop across literally all clears, and it went to a buyer

And like 1 forge

(on mythic that is)

[ornate lake]

https://tenor.com/view/doakes-james-doakes-dexter-morgan-dexter-flashlight-gif-10593574466888155064

I know there are fellowship mara devs in this server with us rn

[graceful rock]

Is it throwing if I rupture in dimmy amp?

Or do I just put the sec tech in the bag and rupture after CDs

[hazy breach]

If you have prepped well on the platform you can fit both sectechs inside the amp with rupture

(ie have superchargers and a bunch of shadow technique stacks ready)

If you havent, you have to skip the rupture

[warm marlin]

Is it not more damage to just get extra blades globals

Even if you hit the second sectec in amp

I usually fit another coup in by doing flag sectec

[hazy breach]

Last i checked rupture did like 30m whereas an evis would do like 25m

[graceful rock]

Are we pre symbols-ing the amp?

[hazy breach]

You can fit the extra coup in anyway

[warm marlin]

U have a nice recent log I can look at?

[hazy breach]

No

[ripe flame]

My whole life has been a lie

[hazy breach]

Were talking specifically about during the amp

Not in general

[ripe flame]

Well its just a little bit of dmg, not that much difference ig

[warm marlin]

It’s also not just the evis, you have to spend another global building

[ripe flame]

Yeye ofc

[warm marlin]

Compared to flag sectec

[hazy breach]

Well yeah but sectech also does less

Idk shouldbt be much difference

[warm marlin]

true

[graceful rock]

But if I’m low on resources going down it’s sec tech right away regardless?

[warm marlin]

simply proc bro

(only one hit of the last coup was in the amp)

[graceful rock]

I love during the opener not getting a coup til blades is over

Quite fun

[crystal bone]

yep

worst feeling in the game

[cursive vapor]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[distant canopy]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[green plaza]

Hi, starting Dimensius prog. Can you get flag rdy for amp if you are assigned to get balls in intermission?

or rather, ball before second platform

[warm marlin]

do you have autumn

[green plaza]

yes

remember reading somewhere you need to hit flag 2nd platform instantly

[warm marlin]

hmm well it is certainly possible to have flag ready for amp without autumn if you dont run a ball

if the orb is adding like 5 seconds or so to your flight time and you do have autumn it should be workable

if its more it might be a bit cringe

[shadow urchin]

Hit flag in then run orb if you can

[warm marlin]

there are almost certainly better choices than rogue to run a ball right before second platform

[shrewd lantern]

what if no autumn

can you even send on pargoth atp

[warm marlin]

completely cooked

no

[green plaza]

I see, thanks man

[warm marlin]

do not run a ball without autumn

[green plaza]

will see how much the orb adds

[shrewd lantern]

wait i thought you cant even send on pargoth this late now

since wont be up for burn

[warm marlin]

prog is still holding dps afaik

watched a guild kill last night and they were

[green plaza]

we are for now anyways so

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah i mean i assume next week gonna be even worse

another 3% buff

[warm marlin]

oh well ye u can never send flag on pargoth if youre fast pushing regardless of autumn

that thing would be like 20 seconds away when amp starts

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah i was thinking since most povs are pre nerf

and it just comes up natty for them

[warm marlin]

omega cursed fight with turbo boost

[languid harness]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[shrewd lantern]

down left orb doesnt look that far on 2nd set

when i look at the pov

small detour it seems

[warm marlin]

im ngl ive never ran an orb nor ever seen someone pick one up

[shrewd lantern]

Im guessing you cant cd at all on pargoth

on farm

outside of a dance sectec

[warm marlin]

dance once on each add set

can cold blood sectec the first one

forge with it too

er

forge with the second

idk the timing something like that

[shrewd lantern]

i thought you can cd artoshian

can you not

[warm marlin]

yes

i think it comes up before pargoth dies

its been a while (2 days)

hmm yes i appear to be cooked it does not come up on pargoth at all

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i imagine you can cd artosh

fulk

and one dance pargoth

[warm marlin]

holding so many cds on pargoth u will always get both add sets I think

and can afford to dance each

honestly p1 is so fast now too you might have to skip second flag to have it up for artoshion

I had to flag insta sectec this week because the adds were mid grip already

[chrome palm]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[scenic plover]

can someone link me the fast routes for dimmy?

[shrewd lantern]

@warm marlin You think cds on pargoth is just perma doomed with next aura buff?

even with autumn and no orb

[warm marlin]

bro even if i had autumn it wouldnt help this reset

[shrewd lantern]

Too fast?

[warm marlin]

we land on artoshion at 2:56, we land on pargoth at 4:07, damage amp starts at 5:26

you can only cd one platform no matter what, and if you cd pargoth even with autumn, flag will be late in the amp

[shrewd lantern]

tldr doomed next week

since another 3% buff

Well i can maybe early prog

when 1/3 the raid dead

[warm marlin]

if you are starting prog you probably will still hold dps

so itll be fine

[shrewd lantern]

me when no autumn because pally only healer

that can play a dps spec

[warm marlin]

you can maybe cd pargoth in farm with double buyer and autumn

but why would you, just cd artoshion instead

[shrewd lantern]

so then if im not really cds on pargoth

no autumn makes no difference i guess

[warm marlin]

if you're holding dps for prog it lets you fly a bit worse and get a slightly better cd usage on pargoth (blades/dance kinda runs out before cb sectec hits the adds)

[shrewd lantern]

I think their intent is to first fast push

then pull off cds

[warm marlin]

if you're fast pushing at the pace we are then yes autumn kinda useless (except that it will let you cd p1 a second time and artoshion)

[kind river]

I saw some people playing assassination on dimmy now?? Is that just a farm reclear meme

[warm marlin]

so early autumn becomes goated and late autumn useless

[shrewd lantern]

I mean assa is just good

when you dont need add damage

[warm marlin]

assa can gamba proc the tier set bug to still cd both plats and the amp

[shrewd lantern]

me when i look at assa logs

[warm marlin]

i mean it is also just good, great st and adds matter less

[shrewd lantern]

and people playing double on use

mfs really playing gamba

Just kind of annoying knowing cd timings on lorggs kind of useless

or will change next week

[vale pine]

its just the typical

[kind river]

People are playing double on-use to abuse the gamba reset? Lmao

[shrewd lantern]

with buff

[vale pine]

adds are easier once people get gear and buffs

so you don't need hybrid specs as much anymore

[shrewd lantern]

doing nk without autumn

felt so ass

late cd platform

[warm marlin]

especially when most of the ones good at it are 90s

[shrewd lantern]

late cd burn

[warm marlin]

and can't do an entire plat anymore

[shrewd lantern]

[kind river]

Yeah I dont like not having autumn on nk

[warm marlin]

why not just play assa for better st when adds just explode and sub can't cd all of them anyway

[shrewd lantern]

even soulhunters with turbo

feels awful

second cds pot set

one or more of them dead

already

[warm marlin]

ive been holding the 430 flag for 5mins

cant wait to see how cursed the 430 one is

[warm goblet]

how do you guys sim for M+? afaik dslice doesn't account for TFD accurately and may be unoptimal for double on use

might be tripping tho

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah sending the 4:40 set was like

next set where pot is also up is during feldev

and adarus dedge

had to do pot set on velaryn solo

[shrewd lantern]

you just sim dslice

antenna prism is gonna outsim forge prism

just how it is

[warm goblet]

don't you know of a way to try to sim optimally? because i'm in that annoying situation where im contemplating myth antenna & hc forge for my first dinar

i know the consensus is usually double on use gud for M+

but would like to get some numbers together and try to figure it out myself

[shrewd lantern]

myth is gonna be better than heroic

[slate lantern]

set up a droute with exactly the route you expect i suppose

[shrewd lantern]

unless the heroic trinket is prism

forge aint all that

[warm goblet]

aight roger, will mess around a bit that even tho antenna seems to be the right choice

thanks a lot guys

[shrewd lantern]

Get a myth forge then maybe consider

[kind river]

I wonder if I should just try assa for a few pulls of NK

The mage on my platform went arcane last night so the adds are kinda exploding

[warm goblet]

wont kill myth araz this season so I guess antenna prison

and if I do, it's gonna be past the point of dinars purchases kek

[shrewd lantern]

If you’re playing with a team that consecutively pulls big you can make a case for myth forge

idk the trinket is overhyped

41k agi that decays

prism is 70k fully stacked no decay

[warm goblet]

tbh I like it bcs it makes every blade feel significant

but I understand it might not be the most optimal

[kind river]

I dont think forge is hyped up because of the forge itself, the forge isn't exactly going crazy

[warm marlin]

It’s so dicey in keys where you can never ever hold

[shrewd lantern]

lmao i did 2 keys with forge with pug tanks

[kind river]

Its the opportunity to still pop something with your cds while banking an 18 netherprism for something big

[shrewd lantern]

said fuck this

[warm marlin]

Holding flag is horrible because then you’re sitting there with a 12 stack prisms and forge up

[shrewd lantern]

went back antenna

[kind river]

That said, this is more applicable to the raid because of very specific and 1.5m friendly burst windows + add spawns

[shrewd lantern]

for prog yeah

now with turbo

who tf knows

i might just play assa on araz now and tunnel boss

adds get murdered insta

[kind river]

I'm running it but tbh it might be the better call to just not even trinket on nk adds

[shrewd lantern]

already got my pink anyway

[kind river]

So i can use antenna

[shrewd lantern]

the degen pad strat

is to pot 18 prism platform

[kind river]

Yeah no I'm not doing that

[shrewd lantern]

i’ve done that on wipes just to see how high i could get

[kind river]

I will just ruin my parse instead by running antenna and skipping trinket usage on adds maybe

Or just keep running forge

Not sure

[shrewd lantern]

Idk thats a problem for future me

when we farm that boss

[waxen matrix]

is there a pin or something about using Netherprism?

[hazy breach]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[solemn lance]

is it normal for my single target build to be out simming the M+ builds for dungeon slice?

[strange chasm]

You guys thinking sub is still better for dim now? We are doing the no hold now

[hazy breach]

Play assa and always proc the double cdr

(otherwise it doesnt matter)

[tepid trellis]

this is the way

[slate lantern]

the single target and aoe builds are close, depends on your crit rating, dslice is a relatively short sim with some aoe and some ST so its not crazy

[solemn lance]

Ah ok, yeh its like 100 or 200k difference, nothing startling

[deep iron]

question the second coup de grace

hsa more priority than sectech?

[tepid trellis]

sectech has the highest prio of our finishers

[vale pine]

secret has the highest priority

always

[pure jay]

i think I know why but can someone ELI5 why our aoe rotation isn't used in boss fights? like dim, araz, soulbinder, saladbar plats

[tepid trellis]

prio dmg

[pure jay]

thats what I thought, makes sense

[fossil forge]

its finally dead

[pure jay]

massive dps

[fossil forge]

ofc it dies on the worst possible pull

but its dead im free 💔

[pure jay]

worst possible pull you'd be dead

[fossil forge]

📠

[pure jay]

i speak from experience ;_;

[fossil forge]

anlaki

[pure jay]

pointed a bad star, think we went from like 30% pull to kill

[fossil forge]

it could have been the pull before

[analog granite]

Is it me or are significantly less people playing m+? Is it because of remix?

[pure jay]

massive ilvl jump

remix is faceroll

not training tool

[pure jay]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-revenge-of-sith-anakin-vader-darth-vader-gif-19644107

[tepid trellis]

not a bad one

[fossil forge]

dude i can breathe the fight

it died in 400 pulls

i think we legit broke a record

[tepid trellis]

[pure jay]

i overthink every cd on sub, makes me struggle on some fights

[tepid trellis]

you spent more pulls on that boss

[fossil forge]

our frost had a mental breakdown before kill pull and gquit HAHA

[pure jay]

especially araz

[tepid trellis]

than i did the entire raid

wtf

[fossil forge]

wat can i say bro

i need to get a better guild

[pure jay]

gamer

[pure jay]

only if you're unhappy

[fossil forge]

i am i wont leave mid progress though

[tepid trellis]

i had 101 on nexus king and 142 on dimmy

and the rest of the bosses just fell over

[fossil forge]

nvm all our pumpers left its over

[tame terrace]

how do i lose 1036 haste

[barren haven]

Go to Burger King

[lusty epoch]

You replace your chest with non tier and also lose 25% dmg

[barren haven]

Craft next week maybe

[plush roost]

Ye its crazy tho, ive gone into a boss with 18 stacks and procced 3 orbs on pull. Ended the fight at 6.5m dps its so turbo

Full addicted now

[daring raptor]

What have people used their Puzzling Cartel Chips for ?

[tidal marsh]

Prism

[daring raptor]

can't decide over myth boots or ritual forge.

have everything else on myth track

[tidal marsh]

s i m

Probably really close either way if you're just upgrading both from Hero track though

[last gate]

does sub benefits from execute?

like 30% hp

[tepid trellis]

No

[placid elk]

no

[deep iron]

i should always do 2 coup of grace

or otherwise im trolling right?

like every single time

[blazing yew]

Yes, second is increased by 150%

[deep iron]

it just sometimes i do coup of grace but sectech gets on

and i press sectech and sometimes i miss the second coup

[placid elk]

i have a question.
since we just send coup with any cp value because it adds 5 to the finisher, doesn't it make sense to use the shuriken strat at every target count even outside shadow blades ?

[blazing yew]

sectech is always pressed with Symbols. If you are pressing it w/o thats an issue. If i have symbols up and sectech comes up i typically can generate 2 finishers within that 5 seconds for the second Coup

[deep iron]

i also ahjve this question oh shit

[placid elk]

now we wait

stealthi offline damn

[deep iron]

so lierally for coup all i need is 1 point?

[blazing yew]

i do, which i believe is correct because of some rule (during that time you dont generate flawless form stacks or something that i cant remember, so you dont backstab/shadowstrike). I could be wrong though

[placid elk]

i know the rule is do the shuriken storm thing with 4+ targets or during blades, but it could just be a "it sims higher" answer

[blazing yew]

all finishers should be 6+cps, iir

[deep iron]

but this

[placid elk]

coup adds 5 cp by default

so its technically always 6+

[vale pine]

!symbols

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[placid elk]

fuu save us pls, we need answer

[blazing yew]

but 6+5=11cp finisher

which do you think hits harder? 6 or 11?

[placid elk]

yeah but until you get 6 normal cp, you could spam backstab 3 times wasting unseen blades

[deep iron]

so if i press symbols by mistake

it will stop me?

like fat finger it

[tepid trellis]

You wanna send it at as High as possible only time you send it at low is if its gonna run out

[twin quartz]

If you shadowstrike between coups, then you lose a guaranteed escalating blade. So the question (if I understand) is if the 11 point finisher is worth more than the escalating blade stack

[placid elk]

it adds a 2s cd on symbols

[blazing yew]

this is the rule i was speaking of, which is why you shuriken storm. Fuu can correct me if im wrong

[twin quartz]

During blades, you shuriken

But I think the question was what’s the damage difference in doing that in normal dance

[deep iron]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[deep iron]

why this one is not there?

[placid elk]

moroes is slacking with the macros

[deep iron]

ty youre now my new subtely father figure MC weasel

[deep iron]

also why is not cold blood here?

because you wanna throw it on the 2nd dance?

[tepid trellis]

Yes

[near hemlock]

is it listed in any of our guides what our stat limits are?

Like 21000 master etc

[tepid trellis]

There is No such thing

[blazing yew]

just looked back at the guide. i dont recall the blades part being there a while back but it is for sure now.

[near hemlock]

so no DR? Just spam Vers/mast all the way?

[placid elk]

follow the sim, it will want some crit as well

[tepid trellis]

Let the robot tell you what to equip

[fiery garnet]

Guys, please, HOW do some rogues use flagellation earlier when it is supposed to be 1,30 cd??

Is that a racial thing? Another class in the grp to reduce CD?

[tepid trellis]

Hpal autumn

[fiery garnet]

Ait, cheers

[hazy breach]

You should be able to shadowstrike from meld

But your right in that you cannot stealth

[wispy crystal]

Is autumn a spell cast only on 1 player or a raid wide spell?

[tidal marsh]

Only on 1 player

[kind bluff]

on dimi do we just pop cds on boss and cleave adds or do we focus and pop cds on adds?

on pull

[strange chasm]

if the cdr procs

do you just send dm

[sullen yarrow]

boys what should i sim for most damage in m*

m+

??

[short radish]

dungeon slice

[tribal blade]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/october-23rd-hotfixes-infinite-power-ara-kara-gear-extra-turbo-boost-quests-379002?utm_source=discord-webhook

so i am now behind on dinars

only have 3

because of what they did

"we hope" they let people do the quest twice next week is scary

[bronze hatch]

so on a scale of 1-10 how fucked is sub for midnight

[tired dome]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[turbid depot]

hey guys, prob a dumb question but why my dmg is split in logs? i'm a bit confused, my details doesnt show this akaari's dmg but log does, i know its the clones but why its tracked separed from my sectec?

[tepid trellis]

person that logged the fight being too far away

happens on nexus king platforms and dimmy p1

if you are on opposite sides

[strange chasm]

damn no hold on dim has got to giga screw sub

[turbid depot]

got it, thanks! may i ask u another question? i was watching shindigs nexus pov and his dmg is twice as mine in details at the same time but checking his logs its pretty much the same

[maiden oar]

gotta go faster

once its even faster itll be good again ithink

maybe its cope but i firmly believe it

[chrome lake]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[hazy lichen]

what website is that

[bleak night]

https://lorrgs.io/

[hazy lichen]

ty

[bleak night]

shows the cd usage of the top 100 parses for your spec on each fight

doesnt always show the best stuff for prog if theres some log padding going on but its a good starting point

and as sub on prog most of the time your job is to pad on adds anyway

[hazy lichen]

Yea so either way were padding lol

[cloud rover]

@tepid trellis We killed Dimmy yesterday

i have a good 5 log (i didnt use CDs on second platform)

[crystal rain]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[short radish]

Wooooo turbo boost

[cloud rover]

Yeah

DMG stops are nice

[cloud rover]

Idk, they just should shave like 15% of P3 health

and DMG stops are kinda whatever

[keen dome]

Still can't buy Dawnbreaker stuff from the dinar vendor. Aaaa.

[glacial kraken]

how come?

[keen dome]

It's locked, lol. I have it timed on +13 but it won't let me buy stuff.

[glacial kraken]

weird

should only need all 12s to get stuff

[keen dome]

Yep, I have everything but 1 item in priory available and DB stuff lol

It's super weird and def bugged

[glacial kraken]

game is evil

[wild vine]

The 12 you want the stuff of

[glacial kraken]

oh how odd

[wild vine]

Ye they fixed it for ara kara so wouldnt be surprised if more is bugged

[glacial kraken]

suppose that's a nicer system

[wild vine]

While its totally whatever for most people that would want the items, I guess its atleast the logical step, considering you only need the specific boss for mythic gear aswell

[glacial kraken]

although you're gonna just have all 12s done if ur going for minimum 3k

[glacial kraken]

ye

[runic trail]

Good QA

[vagrant sinew]

Im 3.1k and can only buy ecodone items

wonder if its because my keys are 1+ months old except I did one ecodome like 3 weeks ago

[haughty rose]

can't wait to join another myth pug for a minimal chance of alpha ring just to get ninja looted by a random shaman who tries to sell it for big money (again)

and then getting kicked for speaking out against it because the shaman was RL's friend and had assist (again)

[keen dome]

People suck

[haughty rose]

yeah. one DH even /w me afterwards why i'm so mad and that i should just do the same and ninja loot everything to earn some gold. guess i need EVERYTHING now (jk)

[keen dome]

I hate that attitude, and kick people who do it from my raids. Like, it's so scummy.

No issue with people whispering a loot winner and asking to buy it, that's w/e and their choice. But purposefully needing on loot in a pug you don't need only to sell it to others? gross

[haughty rose]

yeah it's scummy af and i could never even tho it's common practice and just a game.

btw you do alt runs as RL? xD

[keen dome]

Nah, I only ever do them for myself and buddies

[haughty rose]

shit man. i try hard to go 5/8 with pugs this reset but so far no luck. one guild in no pressure EU was very interested in me joining them but they are on nexus prog rn and i really need at least 2 myth vault slots

[keen dome]

Lockout sucks. I only pug 2/8M 'cos effort

[fossil forge]

i wish there would be enough players to make a guild

No progress

Just loot farming

ive recently talked bout this with my homies

[keen dome]

Ye, communities can achieve that but eh

Management of mythic is a pain in the ass

[fossil forge]

but they end up putting bis trinkets on last bosses anyways

Lucky this szn its pretty early

to drop good loot

[haughty rose]

no pressure EU is very succesful with that tbf but i'm always late to the party. it's literally full whenever i see the raid infos

[fossil forge]

Did u guys start pushing after turbo

@tribal blade

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-squirtle-squad-squirtle-laugh-leader-gif-13020850473308258504

[keen dome]

If there was no lockout, I'd def try to make a casual community pug enviroment but c'est la vie

[haughty rose]

i understand the reasoning behind lockouts but i don't think it would be such a big deal to remove it once hof is closed or turbo boost starts

[keen dome]

ye

[vale pine]

it is just a dated system thats kept to make mythic feel more special

[cloud rover]

Thing is, if you do this, you can just buy an ID ans skip harder bosses

to progress the "easier" after a wall

[haughty rose]

yeah i understand. but as someone like me who can't just join a guild because i can't promise to be available on a set time and day multiple times a week it's a bit of a pain

and HC gets boring rather quickly

[cloud rover]

Yeah but how would you progress

like you cant really progress, if you are not consistent

[iron whale]

@vale pine literally logged into my hardcore rogue to make this image

don't you find this absolutely outrageous?
like, it doesn't really bother you at all?

personally it makes my blood boil

literally 20 years difference and 0 change

it looks atrocious, I think Super Mario 64 has better VFXs

[cloud rover]

Thats some really niche picking thing to be mad about

and i hope you get better soon

[iron whale]

so you're making fun of me and insulting me because I expect a multibillion dollar company budget industry leader game to change visuals and adapt player experience to modern standards after 20 years?

is that your agument?

[short radish]

didnt they update the visuals sometime in legion?

[cloud rover]

Im memeing yes

[iron whale]

as you can see, nop

[short radish]

well

youve taken a picture from the back

[cloud rover]

Because there are more important stuff

[short radish]

which shows a cloak

[cloud rover]

As Example hero talents

[iron whale]

there's always something "more important"

[short radish]

and a bit of the elbow

[cloud rover]

and i couldnt care less, how this animation looks

[iron whale]

ask the casual player if they cares more about the name of the apex talent or how their mount looks like

[short radish]

i mean its no gw2 level of graphics but thats also not the warcraft artstyle

yeah its the exact same thing

[iron whale]

but you see it's not really a matter of graphic style, it's a matter of quality

people often confuse the two

[short radish]

0 changes

[cloud rover]

They changed Character Models with WOD

[short radish]

but yeah showing a comparison from the back

is kinda stupid

there's not a huge amount of difference

but the new models are definitely beter

that being said

2014 was a long time ago

so maybe theyre due for an update

but also kinda who cares?

[random comet]

Can’t even see my character at all if a pally within 100yds is gaming so

[short radish]

all i see is the cross weak aura

oh for fucks sake

thats going away as well

[cloud rover]

We had like the same swirlies for decades

and they remade them just this Addon

so yeah

and that had gameplay impact

how Sprint looks, does not

[random comet]

Did you not get the desired reaction here so you made a reddit post lol

[plush roost]

This is an stier shitpost well done

[plush roost]

Of all the things, the sprint animation is your hill and i commend that

[ivory vigil]

Not going his way there either

has to be a troll

[last gate]

any good guide for sub?

shindigg one looks outdated idk

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[last gate]

video

im sick of reading articles :3

[short radish]

[last gate]

wont help

already read all of it

still not reachin 12mil on soulhunters :3

[ivory vigil]

if it's not a 17 sec tiktok video I cant be bothered

[last gate]

20 sec youtube shorts

[plush roost]

Its the same as season 2 sub with 2 coups

[short radish]

no sub has reached 12m on soul hunters

unless youre talking about normal

[last gate]

should i send screen shot of my wow log 💔

[plush roost]

Id rather just the log tbh

[last gate]

OH

its 11 :3

ANYWAY

IM DOING 8.9

ITS NOT ENOUGH

still 2 mil is 2 mil

[short radish]

unluggy then

[plush roost]

Well idk how to tell u this but it highly depends on kill timer, boss movement, your gear, and a bit of rng to even get there

[short radish]

shindigg is relevant enough that probably not much diff between 11.1.5 and 11.2

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[last gate]

my gears are Ok
we still didnt kill the boss but im always bottom of the pit

[last gate]

ok i've been fitting only 7 so i can backstab on my next dance

[cloud rover]

Yes and gets the same reaction as here

[last gate]

can some one check this
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LPtTMVRaq6DmG1wc?fight=55&type=casts&source=555&view=timeline

i cant understand if im fitting 8 global in my dances

or not

idk

on my first it looks like i casted around 11 / 12 globals

[iron whale]

no no it's really not that, you see...
the thing is that I have a passion for 3d models, animation, VFXs & SFXs
and I am a romantic for videogames and I value greatly their artistic side too

I am not saying it's more or less important than the gameplay side
I'm saying it has its fair share of importance

when I control my character it has to look and feel cool

[ivory vigil]

you chose the wrong game then, half of it is covered in UI

[iron whale]

that's your choice, mine is not covered in UI

and Blizzard is actually leaning towards uncluttering UI overload and bloating

seeing an iconic ability such as Sprint from the rogue being UNTOUCHED and UNCARED for, it's not really for the ability per se...
it's the principle for which Blizzard just does not give a fuck about details, they have no passion, they do not care for things
and mind you, details DO MATTER, they do add up to value, it's just that players tend to underestimate them

[short radish]

to be fair he's not entirely wrong. rogue animations kinda do suck

[iron whale]

average consumers think these things are unimportant, but they overally add up for player experience

[short radish]

sprint is a weird hill to die on though

[iron whale]

lol you guys are misunderstanding

Sprint is part of something bigger

it's literally a brick, but it deserves advocating nonetheless

Rogue's main core abilities are Shadowstrike and ST, which are pretty much both the same animation that you costantly spam

no variant at all, and ST is supposed to have "shadow clones" which visually are just some invisible purple farts

[last gate]

first
you choose wrong game
2nd
you choose wrong class

[iron whale]

yeah I guess your kind of attitude is exactly why we'll never see real change

[latent finch]

Im actually quite happy that we dont have over the bord animation. I hate if i dont see gameplay mechanic because of a spell animation. Looking at you kyrian spear from warri

[last gate]

same

if i wanted random sht animations i wouldnt play wow

play guild wars instead

idk

theif have lots of animations

and ui is small

[iron whale]

fyi wow does have "random sht animations"

god im having a stroke just talking to you honestly

nvm

[cloud rover]

I think you wont find People here, that actually "care" enough

[cloud rover]

Because most Users in Class Discord care more about gameplay

and endgame content

rather than casual content etc.

[last gate]

go reddit for this type of things

[iron whale]

it's not about caring, it's the attitude, the needlessly working against

"no no, I actually DO WANT shit"

[last gate]

idc if my animations are good or bad

idc about my class icons

[keen dome]

Sprint animation is fine. What do you want it to do? We run fast.

[ivory vigil]

I quit GW2 due to the excess in animations and spell effects, I dont want more in wow, it's bad enough here, too

[iron whale]

"ah you want something that looks better in 2025 than the same visual crap from 2003? NO, I oppose, GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE"

[keen dome]

Sometimes stuff doesn't need updating because it's absolutely fine.

[iron whale]

the "play something else" is always the cherry on top

automatically excluding that I care about the game and I just want it to be better

"no we like this garbage, go play something else duh"

[last gate]

i rather get rogue bugs fixed than adding animations

[iron whale]

that's what I can't stand

[last gate]

to kill fps

[keen dome]

You seem very angry about something wholly inconsequential, I dunno.

[keen dome]

Ye I mean I want better VFX on Sub for some stuff but overall I'd rather they do other stuff first.

But also sprint is fine??

[iron whale]

I am not angry, I am just sparkled by motivation during conversation

don't give it too much thought

[last gate]

idk maybe he want naruto run

[ivory vigil]

forrest gump run

[iron whale]

once I close this chat I won't be thinking about it at all

[ivory vigil]

or tom cruise run?

[iron whale]

reddit is possibly even worse, I tried

[latent finch]

You kinda expect that it would be better for everybody. But most player already play on low settings and try to remove alot of stuff because fps is a rare good in wow. I would for example like to be able to remove MORE animations then getting more

[last gate]

then youre the only one asking for it

[cloud rover]

Animations arent the things, that cost FPS

Your GPU isnt used at all in WoW

Like its bored

[keen dome]

Ye, WoW is immensely CPU bound

Gotta do all those constant and complex computes

[cloud rover]

Its more about combat log and addon stuff

[ivory vigil]

all MMOs are CPU bound