subtlety

[steel zinc]

Yeah true

Was broken in legion

[wispy crystal]

looking for tips on perfecting damage amp phase for Araz. is there an optimal timing to start Dancing?

[vale pine]

https://www.lorrgs.io/

^ the website is quite good as it shows you how top logs use cooldowns on the fight

[wispy crystal]

ya i looked at it, but the damage amp phase part is still confusing for me

[steel zinc]

Holy grail for any raid prep

[wispy crystal]

ahhhh people are popping dance 4S before amp hits

[steel zinc]

It's 3:30

[steel zinc]

Yes the damage Amp is about getting the 2nd sectech with cb to hit

[wispy crystal]

so i notice the 1st sTec is sent BEFORE the amp phase?

[plush roost]

If you prestacked and have coup + 14sht ready (you should on pylons) then you flag at 3 seconds, rupture, vanish strike for fw and full cp, dance sectec, coup, coup, backstab, evis etc

Thats how I get both sec tecs inside of amp window.

[wispy crystal]

ahhhhh thank you good sir, yes just what i was looking for

yes exactly perfect you answered my question!

this was what i was struggling to get the timing right

its a little hard to see on the lorrgs

everything is so squashed

[plush roost]

Yeah i just do 3 seconds so i can have 3 globals (flag rupture strike)

[wispy crystal]

sweet tyvm charrend thats really helpful

[plush roost]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Q2ckyHYGhBjrA4Kq?fight=27&type=damage-done&target=217&phase=2&source=11

This isnt even my best burn window but heres an example of intermission casts

[wispy crystal]

damn u doing so much more than me

i got to up my boss damage i think

especially on intermission

wtf your boomie 10m lol

think i know why, i was running lily and prism

had a 18 stack prism but pressed lily by accident instead

messed up my dmg big time on intermission

[vagrant fulcrum]

lowkey

what if EVERYTHING

had charges

sectec and blades

[vale pine]

more charges

sounds like a hell to understand

[vagrant fulcrum]

imo they should just make sub's gameplay about in dance stuff

perhaps something in addition to sectec for inside dance

and just bake symbols into dance, give more dances

like perhaps 30s cd static

let blades give you a charge of dance

also idk about this new danse macabre

seems lame

super weak compared to live

[vale pine]

30 or 25 sec cd sounds good yes

[edgy zenith]

how long have we been SB before sectech

I've just been catching clones with it

whoops

[plush roost]

Afaik it was neutral to press it before or during sec tec

Hope that still rings true cause jeez thats a lot of muscle memory to relearn

[fallow nimbus]

At the end of beta we macro everything in 1 button

[vale pine]

we might not

but do the opposite

[frigid schooner]

yo bois

i was told that atropic poison stacks, is that true? like if you have 2 rogues using atropic in raid it stacks

[vagrant sinew]

it used to as a bug but I think its fixed thesedays

[vale pine]

fixed to my knowlage

[mild lance]

dont really know how tyo interpret warcraft logs. 4.2m dps for halls of atonement m+ 7... is that ok?

695 ilvl

just trying to gauge how shit i am

i see im not using black powder enough

[uneven scarab]

rlly depends on how the tank pulls

powder usage

[mild lance]

yeah i guess, well the tank has like 4 runs in that dungeon so definitely not optimal

i did about the same damage as the same ilvl ret and 800k lower dps than the 710 hunter

so 4.2m, 4.2m and 5m

im gonna guess the hunter was under-performing

i see the top parses on this dungeon haev way more nimble flurry %, how do i get that? is that from more black powder spam?

evis it seems

not sure how they get 34% nimble flurry

only had 27%

[uneven scarab]

Less bp more evis yeah

Can also be from just better play

[mild lance]

@uneven scarabyeah i guess. btw, what is the conditional for when i should stop using shadow dance / symbols?

i understand that i need 2x ready for flag/blades

How many seconds before my next Flagellation + Shadow Blades window is it still safe to use Shadow Dance or Symbols of Death without missing my double-charge setup?

is that deterministic or are there talents that mess with this rhythm?

[uneven scarab]

The way i look at it is you will get two dance+sods inbetween flag

outside of that you hold them for flag

[uneven scarab]

St/aoe will change the rythmn

you’ll have more cp income in aoe so it’ll feel a bit different

[tepid trellis]

you wanna start the dance like 1 sec before the amp starts

[uneven scarab]

But its the same usage

[tepid trellis]

so you go dance+stab->sectech and sectech hits as the amp begins

[mild lance]

@uneven scarabwhat affects shadow dances cd?

[uneven scarab]

Cp spent

[uneven scarab]

search deepening shadow in ur tree

[tepid trellis]

0.5sec per cp spent

[mild lance]

right, yeah that makes it a bit harder

[tepid trellis]

doesent actually change much

[uneven scarab]

gonna miss deepening when its changed

nah it doesnt rlly, like i said usage is the same

[tepid trellis]

from st to AoE its pretty much the same

in terms of dance uptime

[mild lance]

when u say you can use 2 dances between flags... you dont include the ones that are popped in the flag window?

[tepid trellis]

no

as in we dont include them

flag/blade is always 2x, so the numbers thrown around are between those points

[uneven scarab]

Wish i could find the fuu image

that visual is super nice

[deep iron]

is the second cycle

like

isntant

?

back to back

?

[tepid trellis]

well it starts from fresh after the 90 sec cds

so that picture would be cycle 1

[uneven scarab]

ye that one

nice

[tepid trellis]

cycle 2 would be

and cycle 3 would be the first picture again

just rotates like that

between each cd set

[mild lance]

why 8 seconds? the first one is 12, no?

[tepid trellis]

dont look at the actual timers

they are irellevant

[mild lance]

right, ok.

so... you're saying... dance + symbols ON cd 4 times basically in the first cycle

and then after next flag (cycle 2) only 3 times?

[tepid trellis]

well not on cd

you go around sectech

cooldown

[mild lance]

is it always that order tho? symbols > dance ?

[tepid trellis]

this is from my rank 1 loomithar
i had insane coup procs during my 1st and 2nd set of cds
so i could fit in 1 more dance between set 2 and 3

[uneven scarab]

Doesnt matter as long as you make sure supercharger hits sectech

[uneven scarab]

wtf check him pc

[tepid trellis]

in regular circumstances it would be moved to here

[radiant swift]

how come u fit a dance more just because of coup? how does that work

[tepid trellis]

coup is a 13 cp evis

[uneven scarab]

cdr from coup

is giga

[tepid trellis]

so it gives more cdr

[radiant swift]

ohh

right

[tepid trellis]

12*

[radiant swift]

well depending on how much cp u send it but

ofc

[uneven scarab]

Most fun part of trickster tbh

hit coup-> sectech cd gets cut in half

[tepid trellis]

my coup did quite alot

[iron fjord]

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[finite meteor]

Hello, non-rogue player looking for some information about sub's damage profile and funnel, if someone can help me out.

Sub rogue on my push team does decent overall, negligible boss damage, and next to 0 funnel. I havent played sub since SLs, so maybe I just dont understand how it works now, but I just want to know if im not understanding their profile, or if he's playing incorrectly.

for context, our most recent run was a 17 FG (failed right before Big Momma, so not a lot to go on). Architects were at around 40-50% hp when everything else was dead. Shredders, same thing. His boss damage on Duos was abysmal, barely beating the tank at only 2.56m dps by the end of the fight (did die once, so maybe they lose more than i think they do if they die?) On the second Architect, i had asked him to funnel it, which he did, and it died very quickly, and the pull was a lot faster and smoother. Granted we ended only about 13min into the dungeon, but Eviscerate was about 5% of his overall up to that point.

So what Im asking is for some basic info on if it sounds like he doesn't understand sub, or if I dont.

sorry for lengthy post, can DM me if you want, to not clutter up the discussion. Thanks

[tepid trellis]

sub has no funnel

it does prio dmg that cleaves

the difference in pressing blackpowder vs pressing Eviscerate in terms of AoE vs Prio is about a 10% swing each way Evis ofc being more prio and Blackpowder being more AoE, so in terms of the actual change in prio dmg it barely affects it

his dmg on the duo boss is either one of two things
he died as he pressed cds / lost his prism stacks cuz of the death (sub does around 70% of its dmg during its major cds)
or him just playing it poorly not sending the dmg when they are stacked, but 2.5m seems insanely low

@cloud rover stop wiping and kill the boss

[mystic ether]

I'm extremely confused by this :
https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/nexusking-salhadaar
How can people flag at opener and again at 1:24?

Am I missing something?

[tepid trellis]

blessing of autumn from holy pala

it gives like 10 sec or so worth of cdr

[mystic ether]

Bruh...

[finite meteor]

is that really true? thats crazy to me. we had done a Halls with a different rogue (same comp otherwise) and the shards of halkias would die in 2, MAYBE 3 thrashes, and when we ran it with him, it was 4-5 thrashes. they really have no funnel now? thats crazy

[tepid trellis]

classes change

between expansions

[mild lance]

@tepid trellisim doing pretty good damage but what im likely doing wrong here for sectec to be above black powder?

[shrewd lantern]

hasnt had funnel since bfa

[tepid trellis]

sub doesent funnel anymore

[finite meteor]

damn. sadge. aight ty

[tepid trellis]

not pressing it enough would be my guess xD

[mild lance]

haha i feel like i spammed it a lot but maybe not

[tepid trellis]

thats from a random +10 i did some weeks back

priory

iirc overall was around 12.5m

[vale pine]

sub has prio damage, which means we keep doing most of our single target damage in multi target

[shrewd lantern]

bp above sectech generally means your tank pulled larger

[tepid trellis]

12.42 it seems

[mild lance]

@tepid trellisdamn that's crazy, ilvl? also how does damaeg scale iwth ilvl, anyone know?

[shrewd lantern]

yeah prot warriors tend to pull big

[mild lance]

i just did 5m in halls of atonement 8+

[radiant swift]

u just flex to much

[mild lance]

last run, an hour ago, same dungeon i did 4.2

[radiant swift]

frfr

[mild lance]

so i definitely improved my damage

i have 695 ilvl so not sure if thats good

and a week on sub rogue

[shrewd lantern]

technically low at this point in the season

[mild lance]

for my ilvl too?

[shrewd lantern]

no idea

depends on key

[cloud rover]

I TRY

[mild lance]

+8 halls of atonement. had a 709 lock in teh team who did just 200k dps more than me

[tepid trellis]

around 717

[mild lance]

so 5 and 5.2m

@tepid trellisDamn. that's good. do you know how much damaeg scales with ilvl?

[cloud rover]

I also keep fucking up my Trinkets usage

[tepid trellis]

depends on items cuz some of em do special shit like prism

but raw ilvl from gear only

so main stat pieces not wep/trinkets

lil less than 1% per ilvl

id guess

[mild lance]

hmm that's quite low. you're telling me i should be able to do like 9-10m dps avg with 696 gear on a really good run?

sounds nuts

[tepid trellis]

well no

cuz there are special items

weapons scaling insane

trinket etc

[mild lance]

hmm right ok, can you tell me which of the items or is that available in your guide?

[tepid trellis]

example being mythic prism

[mild lance]

i have the 727 crafted dagger but only a 695 sword in my offhand

[tepid trellis]

it gives like 68k main stat at max stacks

which is insane

70.8k at 730 ilvl

[uneven scarab]

until you are 715+ i wouldnt worry about your damage that much

[tepid trellis]

and thats my normal agi

[uneven scarab]

you are missing alot at below 700

[mild lance]

what is mythic prism?

[radiant swift]

do u even have 4p

[uneven scarab]

lots of passive agi and stats

Seems like you still have alot of gearing to do

[mild lance]

ah unyielding netherprism u mean?

yeah i have zero raid pieces

[uneven scarab]

yeah thats a prob

[mild lance]

and 4/5 set bonus

[uneven scarab]

Well u have 4p atleast then

your ilvl is just low

At this point in the season

[mild lance]

but you'd say stats + missing raid items are a bigger problem?

[uneven scarab]

im playing 3 chars rn and they are all around 720

[mild lance]

i just hate raiding, not sure how im gonna get that aside from rng in the vault

[warm marlin]

Having a sword offhand is very very very bad

[uneven scarab]

im saying you cant judge your damage until you actually have gear

you have a sword offhand???

[mild lance]

yeah but i started this expansion 3 weeks ago, got 4 characters to 695-700

[uneven scarab]

uh oh

[mild lance]

but im maining the rogue now

[uneven scarab]

no good

sub only uses daggers

no sword

[mild lance]

haha right, why? i suspected that but back in the day you couldnt even use certain abilities with sword as sub

so just thought it was fine

[uneven scarab]

!offhand

[warm marlin]

a 500ilvl auction house dagger is better than a sword

[uneven scarab]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[uneven scarab]

^^^^

You want double daggers as sub

[mild lance]

makes sense, ill re-equip the dagger i had then

what are the other priority pieces? prism and what else?

[uneven scarab]

Thats a massive chunk of damage you were losing

prism/forge

even outside of the prio pieces you just gotta get ur ilvl up

[deep iron]

what is wrong with me

[mild lance]

@uneven scarabforge? the mh dagger?

[uneven scarab]

the trinket

[mild lance]

kk nice

[uneven scarab]

think most subs are using both prism and forge

[deep iron]

why my nimbl furry

is so low

[uneven scarab]

Cuz ur bp is to the moon

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

[deep iron]

im abusing the bp?

[uneven scarab]

Bro is pressing bp in single target too

[deep iron]

if i have 5 weak targetr and 1 mini boss

do i just eviscerate?

or bp

[mild lance]

@uneven scarabhaha i have harvesters edict and ara-kara broodsac, i assume they are dogshit

sacbrood

[uneven scarab]

those are terrible

ya

like actual trash tier

[lilac stag]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[limpid sage]

you should pop flag at 3 sec left so first sectec drops the second you get inside amp

[deep iron]

gonna tattoo this

[limpid sage]

and people tend to pop flag at 0:21 so that you cb sectec exactly as adds drop

[viral phoenix]

sometimes evisc is better for the timer but less overall damage. Like when you pull ads onto boss and dont wanna absorb funnel, or on some shard of halki pulls in HOA even with funnel they last longer than the rest of the pack by a margin

[uneven scarab]

Coup should be way higher as well, you use it at all target counts

[viral phoenix]

on dawnbreaker I evisc the church miniboss when it's pulled with the +4 shadowwalker mobs cause they have so little health but on the other minibosses theres the tactician thats bulky so cleave more valuable (when 4+ target)

[shrewd lantern]

I mean if nimble is below bp

are you even hitting sectech and coups proper

because just those two should outpace bp spam i feel

[limpid sage]

prob spamming shuriken no?

[uneven scarab]

Could be spamming shuriken

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah i imagine

[uneven scarab]

yea

[shrewd lantern]

UB above coup is what the helly

[uneven scarab]

deathstalker rotation playing trickster

[shrewd lantern]

ngl

when i do get the supercharge on sectech+the second coup

nutworthy

[uneven scarab]

Oh its the best feeling

legit hitting a pog irl

[cloud rover]

Almost Stealthi

[mild lance]

@uneven scarabdagger simmed lower than the sword lol, why is that?

same ilvl roughly

[uneven scarab]

link ur sim

[mild lance]

sec

[uneven scarab]

Also not even sure if the sims take into account the shadow techniques loss from a 1 hand

[mild lance]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2KGo7M6QXKRtZvvUP6eNKL

trinket was about 4%

[charred kestrel]

dagger isnt enchanted

[uneven scarab]

raidbots is so aids on mobile i cant even see half of whats happening unfortunately

Dagger doesnt look enchanted yea, and the forge you added is 662 ilvl

[wild hornet]

just realised im 10 seconds off my 3rd flag on saladbar platforms, no hpal in sight, do i just cope the first 10 seconds?

[latent finch]

You can put some raptures out. If you send cds on cd its fine you still will get cds for dmg amp and platform its just not that confortable then with a blessing

[wild hornet]

i mean if the adds live long enough for one cd set i assume its whatever

[limpid sage]

ye that's what you do with no pala

should be fine unless you've got all pumpers on your platform

[wild hornet]

yeah if thats the case ill prob just send a dance or two

[north schooner]

the dagger is 623 ilvl too

[warm marlin]

500ilvl may have been a slight exaggeration

[limpid sage]

I mean you still get them up during amp

[dreamy sedge]

does the rota from retail fit perfectly for remix ?

[mild lance]

ww monk is kinda dog right now right?

[uneven scarab]

nah its good

[vale pine]

you would not do the coup optimizations

but else yes

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[vale pine]

so the 2nd point is irrelevant

because no tier

[dreamy sedge]

hmm i see

was thinking about learning sub rogue cause i'm bored of playing fury but from the first look, its.. a bit difficult ?

[vale pine]

it is

basically the hardest to learn spec in the game

but its fun

[mighty citrus]

fun but not rewarding 😄

[dreamy sedge]

Going from fury to this looks like going from middle school to university lmao

[lilac stag]

Fury is chill. Sub is organized chaos that takes some commitment to learning.

[uneven scarab]

There’s a moment where itll all come together

just gotta keep playing it

[vale pine]

it is rewarding

[lilac stag]

@dreamy sedge do you enjoy arms at all?

[mighty citrus]

i need to press 120000 buttons to do less dmg than 3 button classes

so idk mate :p

[vale pine]

i mean its still tuned within other dps

[uneven scarab]

thats just not true

[vale pine]

in final output

so the extra effort feels less rewarding

[lilac stag]

sT isn’t rewarding at all.

[iron fjord]

dimensius dark matter (spread mechanic initial dmg) procs twice sometimes, we noticed on me and our monk. Could this be because of some elevation issue? We're both standing in the corner, where the platform is slightly elevated.

[lilac stag]

M+ and add fights it is

Rewarding

[iron fjord]

and no, we weren't overlapping. Can send a video and logs if you don't believe

[mighty citrus]

truuuue

[ripe flame]

Yea

I was also assigned to a corner and decided to just don't hop on the rail and never happened again

[uneven scarab]

If ur on an incline i wouldn’t be surprised if you take a 2nd hit super fast bc you dont have long to get out of those puddles in general

Yeah just stay on the flat part of the platform

[dreamy sedge]

Never really played it, Fury since.. idk how long lol

[uneven scarab]

probably like outlaw if you like fury

fury/enh/outlaw all pretty similar playstyles

[lilac stag]

Ok. It stacks cds like arms. However there’s about 4 more layers to the stacking.

[lilac stag]

Fury is chill. Outlaw is sweaty.

esp current slayer

Only thing similar is dmg profile

[uneven scarab]

ive only really played arms recently

getting excited for the rework

[lilac stag]

[dreamy sedge]

Hmm i see

Assassination looks duh for remix

[iron fjord]

not the puddles ("dark energy"). it's the initial dmg of the "dark matter" that procs twice in 0.5s, dealing around 12mil dmg total

[iron fjord]

ok nice

[lilac stag]

First thing I’m trying on beta

[uneven scarab]

same man

i either end up playing arms or WW

Unless god himself comes down and saves sub

[lilac stag]

If I had to pick today it would be arms

[uneven scarab]

Same probably, ive got a love for WW that makes it hard to ignore tho

And weapons coming back is pretty sweet

[lilac stag]

That’s SV for me

[uneven scarab]

Man BOOMSTICK looks so cool

[lilac stag]

But not gonna get stuck in range sandwich.

[uneven scarab]

my homie played SV a long time but hasn’t played recent so ive thought about trying it

[lilac stag]

I really like having a moment shout on war

[vale pine]

i think its just difficult

to balance around difficulty

[uneven scarab]

Shouldve had it years go tbh

[vale pine]

so you either fuck up everyone who is not an expert

[uneven scarab]

once i saw it i was like how does this not exist already

[vale pine]

or make people think the spec is too good

blizz loves to do the first one

[uneven scarab]

I also think people are extremely overdramatic when it comes to certain things in wow as well

[vale pine]

and then wonders why people don't like it

[uneven scarab]

They blow it way out of proportion

[lilac stag]

sub is like trying to teach my students dog agility. You have to be ok making mistakes while learning

a lot of people just fold as soon as there is some struggle

eventually it clicks

[uneven scarab]

Its a spec you wont just understand playing for 20 mins

you literally have to keep at it, until it makes sense to you

[vale pine]

i think the game is fun if you have diffrences like this

[limpid sage]

that's what I came from

can recommend

iq buff

[fast flax]

my first 17 yeey was arak also if i have coup up with all my cds before going into my cds i gotta send it even if secret tech is up ?

[vale pine]

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[willow fulcrum]

Quick question: I know we don't shuriken inside dance (exception being the coup rule) but do we use shuriken over backstab outside dance in an aoe situation?

[fast flax]

also we dont even shuriken to apply find weakness in all targets?

using rotten talent?

[sacred gull]

guys do you know the stats thresholds for penatlies ?

[lusty badger]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[raw venture]

hihi! I've been trying sub a bit recently, coming from outlaw, and I had a question regarding unseen blade/coup ; if i'm reading it correctly, in aoe situations the wowhead priority list pretty much always puts shuriken storm above backstab/shadowstrike (except for premeditation blablabla), but how does that work for building up to a coup? Because the priority list does mention using coup de grâce, I'm just not sure what it wants me to do exactly since i'm never supposed to be building stacks if i'm reading the list correctly

[tepid trellis]

you strike during dance

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[tepid trellis]

which makes it progress

[raw venture]

ooo alright I see, I was reading the line about shuriken storm wrong yeah

got it, thank you!

[golden totem]

Is there still any incentive to start dancing at low cp with current sub iteration ?

[tepid trellis]

not really

[dapper fog]

SYMBOLS OF DEATH IS OVER

[tepid trellis]

?

[winter hill]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[wheat elk]

@tepid trellis

[tepid trellis]

?

[bleak night]

[wheat elk]

is there a big difference between antenna and forge for salhadaar?

was gonna buy antenna but we got salhaaar prog so was gonna make sure

[tepid trellis]

probably not, but i do think 2x on-use is better on it tho

[wheat elk]

problem is antenna is simming better for me in m+ (

on 30% miss chance

[tepid trellis]

just loot one on reset in vault and buy the other with dinars

ez

[wheat elk]

yeah right

XD

[bleak night]

real

[tepid trellis]

i tried antenna on last two, personally i think its bad

but i know of others who thinks otherwise

so its all kinda just w/e

[wheat elk]

aight, thanks

[shrewd lantern]

me when antenna orbs spawn as the big move happens

on salad

[ripe flame]

me when I hear the antenna WA while flying in dimensius

[shrewd lantern]

Me when im doing last boss floodate on warrior

and my wa says i have 6 antenna orbs floating around

[ripe flame]

if I die I die kinda moment

[shrewd lantern]

technically antenna is bigger burst windows due to the flat agi isnt it

[warm marlin]

yes indeed

[shrewd lantern]

might be a play pacemaker angle if fight is too jank for double on use

who knows

[lilac stag]

Grab the soul hunters trinket in that case

[short radish]

this might be the not having to touch keys at all this week

but im excited to see a raid vault this week

perhaps i can get my mythic prism

[fickle jacinth]

/wa

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[haughty mural]

The double on use vs antenna debate will never end

[shrewd lantern]

i only did keys to cap my crests

so i dont hate myself trying to sweat on uncap

[short radish]

thats next weeks problem

[tall girder]

the lion does not concern himself with filling vault this week

[shrewd lantern]

also for some reason

my sim actively hates logic alpha

and wants double vers mast rings

even with a crit vers neck

[tranquil egret]

Stupid question what do i do when i get shadowcraft proc when i have coup de grace. In rotation it says i shoud shuriken but i normaly just instantly pres evic because of full CP

[short radish]

you only press shuriken if you are not at full cp

if you are at full cp

you send evis

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[short radish]

the keyword in number 2 is AND

that being said

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[short radish]

coup happens over 3(?) hits

so you may get a delayed shadowcraft proc

which is what stealthis coup bar is for

[hollow spear]

I love the bar but I hate that it has to exist

[short radish]

sorry that's just subs theme

delayed damage

delayed procs

delayed gratification

[karmic harbor]

i installed that bar

realised i never looked at it

and removed it

[nocturne storm]

Which trinket is the best combination in M+?
Do you prefer antenna to araz on m+?

[limpid sage]

I’ve started liking it actually

[karmic harbor]

ive just become one with sub rogue

i know exactly when 1.2s has passed

truly ascended

i definitely dont wait for 0.5s after coup cast has finished thinking im about to get a refund

[hollow spear]

The delayed refund?

[limpid sage]

yeah

I kinda wish the delayed refund wouldn't proc during shadowblades though

then it'd perfect

[short radish]

brother youre so cooked

[fickle jacinth]

hey so waht does teh coup bar do ? not wuit getting what its doing

just the itme you have to use it again for free?

[short radish]

no

#subtlety message

so its like

say youre at 5sht when you press coup

you won't get a refund right

but then say you do an auto attack 0.3 seconds later

which procs sht

and you have symbols

so now you have 7 sht

because coup hits 3 times

in the 1.2 seconds after you press coup

if you hit 7sht during that period

it will refund you

so it might refund you at like 0.8 seconds after you press coup and you're spamming shadow strike

so then you shadow strike after it refunds

and you just wasted a global

WOOOOO DELAYED PROCS

someone smarter than me correct what ive said if its wrong

[limpid sage]

I've started doing a fun little optimization around the refund, where I exhaust my energy entirely > press Symbols > auto for 1-2 seconds > dance+sectec > storm > coup > coup

because you're basically guaranteed back to back coup if you're pressing dance+sectec on 3 ShT with symbols rolling

[fickle jacinth]

AHHH ok i get it

[limpid sage]

I think the hit is at 1 sec actually

which just means you have to rely on reaction time even more

[short radish]

i see

tbh

i just look at bar

if bar says dont press

i dont press

[limpid sage]

I just spam Evis until the bar disappears

but I removed the tick + the 0.2s extra

btw

for people that've done nexus king with/without forge, was it a big difference?

[hollow spear]

That's peak Stockholm syndrome my man

[spare quiver]

!Macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[fossil forge]

Triple antena proc in opener

[high grotto]

for soul hunters, do we put rupture all 3 or just the 2 with the talent applying on 2 targets

and does cloak work as immune for the hunt

[short radish]

yeah

[short radish]

probably worth outside dance

1 rupture is worth more than 1 evis out of dance

and youre rupturing 2 targets

maybe you only get half value on one of those ruptures because its already applied

but thats still 1.5 ruptures

which is even more than 1 evis

[hollow spear]

quick maff

[sacred gull]

hey guys, do you know about the stat thresholds penalties in sub ?

[hazy breach]

Its not really something you should care about, just sim your character with top gear

[tribal blade]

no i need exact %s stat

i haven't been in here a while

figured i'd drop in

what have i missed

i have remix brain right now

[limpid sage]

we're playing deathstalker now

[opaque snow]

I am enjoying Sub

too bad I cant get a dagger to dorp in my vaults 🙁

[summer peak]

@bleak wind Hey mate sorry for the random tag! Just wondering on your recent dimi kill log, I noticed your Stech is on the living mass but everything else is on dimi and using body positioning for add damage. Can you advise us this a bug on the log or are you target swapping to Stech and back to dimi? Appreciate any help or advise on this❤️

[tribal blade]

you can craft one for sure

[sacred gull]

not sure if I understand well, but cleave comes from your character, except for Stech that cleaves from your target, could be the reason

[hollow spear]

yeah, sectec cleaves from the target

supreme padders will therefore target the adds instead of a boss

for example on gallywix

[tribal blade]

on pull it's way easier to have dimi targeted

everyone else is gonna blow up the adds anyways

[quaint lodge]

It used to be the case before nerfs + ilvl that you wanted to sectec the adds cuz they wouldnt die 2 gcds from your shaman/evoker

To even out whatever add was lagging behind

now that doesnt really apply as much

[sacred gull]

How do people get back their main CD before 1min 30 ?

[limpid sage]

blessing of autumn

[bleak wind]

I am indeed targeting the add with sectech yes, like people pointed out when the boss has a massive hitbox like dimensius if you cast on him the clones are not gonna hit the adds since the clones are based on the center of the target (might be wrong on that, but it happens with big targets) so when you use it on the add both the initial damage and the clones are hitting the boss and the adds, and no that particular case is not pad, its knowing how the spec works

[crystal bone]

blessing of autumn getting deleted in midnight i heard

good riddance

delete PI next plz

[swift tinsel]

should be self-buff only

[slate lantern]

delete raid buffs in m+

[swift tinsel]

1:1 scrolls/drums or bust

[short aurora]

in raid, do you guys always build to coup before sd windows?

[warm marlin]

Only for flag

[summer peak]

Amazing man, really appreciate the detailed reply. I was not considering the boss not hitting the adds as they are really close to the boss himself.. so will be doing the same come prog again Wednesday!

[hollow raft]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[bleak wind]

depending on your comp you might need to switch to them as well, I had to switch to some sets on prog, but now just passive cleave is enough, probably best to switch to them at first and when you see you have enough damage you can swap off them

[warm marlin]

I had to actively avoid cleaving the melee add and usually help kill the ranged add during our prog

Double ele just solos the melee ones

[bleak wind]

I had to do that on my second cds as well

or rather just avoid the melee one

[warm marlin]

The 1:10 add set in particular I ran out of melee to go dance the back add

[bleak wind]

we didn't have to swap to the ranged ones thankfully

but on prog when you delayed your second set of cds if I did a cold blood sectech on that add around 2min it got deleted

[wispy crystal]

For araz, if I cast sTec and move away for soak. Will the sTec land on the spot originally casted it ?

[slate lantern]

sectec is targeted on an enemy not where you are

[swift tinsel]

it also somewhat follows your target unless they move very quickly/blink away

due to the range of the hits

[wispy crystal]

Meaning it follows my target even if I move away?

[swift tinsel]

yes

[wispy crystal]

Wow nice to hear that

[swift tinsel]

iirc its our only aoe ability that's based on target position and not ours

storm, bp, nimble all us

[wispy crystal]

Got it Ty!

Btw our Bis Trinkets are netherprism and Araz one right?

Excited to finally buy them next week

[swift tinsel]

prism + forge/antenna/pacemaker all fine

prism is the big one you wanna have

[wet echo]

lily also gud

[slate lantern]

no reason to run lily + prism instead of araz + prism

[wet echo]

there is a good reason

araz hasn't dropped yet

[swift tinsel]

with dinar that problem pretty much vanishes

[wet echo]

yea

but in that case, mentioning antenna and pacemaker is also pointless 😄

[swift tinsel]

not really

because they're all close enough

and if you don't want to run double on-use there are two viable options

[pine trout]

Is sub hard to pick up

[vale pine]

i would say no, just to motivate you to try it

but it is def. the hardest you find in wow

[shrewd lantern]

persoonally i dont think any spec in wow is hard

but sub is definitely a step up from fdk/ret tier

[swift tinsel]

arguably biggest mental hurdle for sub is breaking the habit of using all of your cooldowns on cooldown

[shrewd lantern]

assa is kind of the training wheels spec

[swift tinsel]

since pretty much everyone else wants to just send send send

[shrewd lantern]

outlaw is well, how good reactionary gameplay are you

[shrewd lantern]

nothing more i like then afk autoing the boss

while shit talking in game chat

[vale pine]

cooldown planing is the core design space of the spec

so makes sense

[mild lance]

i dont get how this rogue is dealing more damage than me with the "wrong" rotation

He's never using black powder

can anyone explain that?

he had about 15-20% more dps than me with about 8 more ilvl

he also has like 60-70% more nimble flurry usage

is that cuz he's spamming eviscerate instead of lback powder?

[vale pine]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[vale pine]

these rules will make you do the highest output

[mild lance]

yes i know

but im saying

he doesnt use black powder at all and otudamages me

[vale pine]

if he is not using bp on a big pull, but keeps evis, he will do less than you

[mild lance]

so how does that rotation guide make sense?

[vale pine]

but its likely that you just play worse

and have less gear

[supple verge]

8 ilvl is kind of a lot

[mild lance]

i had 16% BP usage and he had 0%

he diud more damage than me

[vale pine]

e.g. he can use a stacked prism

vs. you just send cd's without trinket

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[vale pine]

a screenshot

[mild lance]

@vale pinethat cant really be it, im doing a pretty decent rotation and doing pretty good damage for my ilvl, he's the one not using teh default rotation

[vale pine]

well

[mild lance]

he was outdamaging my full send on 10-12 mobs without BP

[slate lantern]

whats his weapon ilvl? what trinkets? straight ilvl comparison doesnt mean much

[mild lance]

2x dance 2x symbols in flag window

[vale pine]

i think you just don't provide anough context for a reasonable assessment of the situation

[mild lance]

he whispered me and said " i dont know what the right rotation is, i've played sub for a week"

[vale pine]

also if its one pull, he might got lucky procs

[slate lantern]

unless you have a log no one can really tell

[mild lance]

iot was the entire dungeon

[vale pine]

he might just send all cooldowns on it

while you didn't

[mild lance]

20% more overall dps. with 0 bp casts

[vale pine]

diffrence between bp/evi is not that big

if you pull super small

again, you provide no context

you might just delay your cooldowns too much

you might make mistakes

or simple have bad gear

[mild lance]

ofc im making mistakes, i've playe4d rogue for a week, but i at least understand the general rotation

i.e. bp on >4, always coup de grace when possible, 2x dance 2x symbols between flag windows

save 2x for flag

supercharge sectec

etc

he doesnt seem to know at all what he's doing (judging by our pms) yet had 20% more damage than me haha

thats' why i was thinking maybe im doing something very wrong

[vale pine]

2x dance and 2x symbols during flag is important, you won't always have 2 between your 90 secs

[slate lantern]

are you still running sac brood and edict? (from your sim yesterday). if the dude has a good active like prism that could easily explain your dps difference

those trinkets are negative dps lol

[mild lance]

@slate lanternyeah lol, but i dont get why the sim says it's just a 4% diff from swapping out my trinkets

4% is pathetic

[slate lantern]

log a key or a fight and send it its the only way people can see if you are doing something else fundamentally wrong, details screenshots dont do anything

[mild lance]

fair, ill do that next time haha

how much difference do weapons make?

do they scale more thanitems things with ilvl?

[tepid trellis]

mainhand scales very hard

cuz of weapon power

[mild lance]

my mainhand is 727 so...

that's not the problem

haha

i have the crafted everforged stabber

was just wonderiing if i should ofucs on getting offhand or trinkets first

or upgrade my gvloves which are like 580

[tepid trellis]

trinkets

[slate lantern]

offhand is very low prio

[mild lance]

only low ilvl item i have

[tepid trellis]

off hand is the worst slot dmg wise together with wrists

[mild lance]

if I have the set shoulders (which i shouldnt, according to murlok.io), is it fine to craft teh gloves?

they seem to have the same stats

mastery/crit

[tepid trellis]

you can, yes

it will all be marginal anyway between the 2 items

[analog granite]

I thought 720 was the highest ilvl for crafted stuff but it appears to have been changed to 727? Did that happen alongside the increase to upgrade levels on gear?

[keen dome]

Yep, it did.

[deep iron]

so umm im pretty slow, im trying to learn. Can someone tell me what im doing wrong, here is a log of a broken 12 (heals fault) but is my recent log: v

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/49wD2at76HgvPhj3?fight=last

[slate lantern]

yeah pretty not bueno on rotation here amigo.

Sub is all about following a precise cooldown window every 90s and executing it perfectly to do damage

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[slate lantern]

Compare your windows to the one in the second link ^ here and practice them on dummies until you can do it in your sleep

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[slate lantern]

Also the wowhead guide has a good visualizer for what you should be pressing when for the cooldown windows as you learn it

Also looks like you might have a macro with Shadowblades + shadow dance + cold blood + sectec which is not good

[weary crystal]

Anyone ever had this bug where you missed alot? Happend after I got mc'ed on NK and got stuck in combat 😂

[mild lance]

the logging u guys are talking about.. is that advanced combat logging in the options menu?

or how do i log like the timelnie above @slate lantern

[slate lantern]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/how-to-use-warcraft-logs-6341

[vale pine]

the timeline is just a setting on warcraftlogs

you can set it in the right top corner

like this

[mild lance]

nice! thanks

[fallow moss]

pesky ass SP trying to steal ma trinket

[haughty mural]

i mean its their goto

so its understandable as 2 minute class to try to get it

[lilac stag]

stop trying to make sense of things. Don’t you recall where you are?

[hollow vessel]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[limpid sage]

brother what

I'd commit warcrimes for 4%

[swift tinsel]

lmao 4% being huge around here

while we make 0.2% optimizations

[mild lance]

do they mean this? thats a folder tho not a file lol

@swift tinselyeah but i have 695 ilvl bro

[shadow lance]

Delete the files inside

[mild lance]

all of them*?

[swift tinsel]

yeah you don't use them for anything unless you're uploading them to WCL

old logs, that is

[shadow lance]

The one in evidence

But you can delete all

Logs are just logs

[haughty bone]

what's the use case for rotten vs finality in keys? is one or the other more aoe/ST?

[swift tinsel]

rotten slightly more st vs finality slightly more aoe

[haughty bone]

thanks

[warm solar]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[warm solar]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[mellow hedge]

!sims

[shrewd lantern]

I definitely didnt pay gold to go maghar

for less than 2%

[swift tinsel]

Nah no way not me either

[shrewd lantern]

also like

half the dps optimizations

in opener

revolve around sub 1% gains

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd lantern]

i genuinely do not believe going no on use to prism

is only 4%

unless its like an lfr prism

[karmic harbor]

i was gonna say they're fun to do, then i remembered having to sectec when a wipe happens, pre using sod, using storm between coup

[shrewd lantern]

the hpriest angel watching me run around

trying to sectech something before wipes

i pretty much sod vial as soon as i get up

then recup

since healers dont wanna do their job

[visual widget]

if I crafted mh dagger then bracelets, what should my next crafted piece be? offhand dagger?

[lilac stag]

[shy flare]

Outside of pre pull does symbols uses stack the number of supercharged finishers?

Really just asking to see if I should be delaying my first use of symbols on opener. Like prepull symbols covers the first rupture and then first finisher in dance, so if I use symbols with the first dance but before that finisher am I wasting a supercharger charge?

[bleak night]

supercharger can stack, anything above 2 just gets reset on pull

but if you have 2 then symbols during the fight you'll just be at 4, its not wasted

[hushed roost]

Is there a guideline of which bosses you'd use double on-use(forge/prism) on vs antenna/prism? I know that forge/prism combo is insane only last 2 but trying to figure out when I should use antenna

[twin quartz]

Fights where you send CDs on cooldown generally are pretty good for double on use

[golden totem]

I don't use antenna

[acoustic elbow]

I want to switch from assa to sub, but obv im totally on a wrong side with stats(tons of mastery, close to 0 vers) any ideas how to quickly transition? maybe with the mythic items merchant? currently holding 4/8m

[lilac stag]

Recraft your crafted items to crit vers and don’t worry about it. Drop haste items if you can.

With as fast as adds are getting got now, you may be better off just running assa on everything in mythic

just take nodoze

[tepid trellis]

Assa is def the play if u want the most output

[lilac stag]

I suggested our rogue swap back to assa for NK. I think come reset the platform gonna mean shit all even on prog.

[tepid trellis]

Platform is a joke now

[lilac stag]

we’re still working through p1

[bleak night]

same with my guild

[lilac stag]

we’ve got 2 fdks a havoc and me as fury. I don’t see adds living

[bleak night]

i swapped to assa preemptively because im expecting the platforms to just not exist

[tepid trellis]

Pretty sure im very close to being able to solo it

[bleak night]

[lilac stag]

@tepid trellis are there any tricks for trying to bait 3 ghost set or is just rng

[tepid trellis]

Rng its just around the boss

[left ledge]

if you're struggling with it

just run far from boss

[hushed roost]

How would you guys swap to assassination from this

[tepid trellis]

I need to remember to record this reset. Promised to make guides for a few bosses

[hushed roost]

if i still want to m+ sub

[shrewd lantern]

what

just get a neck with haste

[left ledge]

get more crit

sac vers for crit and some haste

focus crit/mast

[errant ferry]

Anyone else having an issue where there CB + Sectec macro doesnt work anymore? It just isnt doing the CB

[left ledge]

you played fatebound assa

[short radish]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[tepid trellis]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[left ledge]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[left ledge]

fuck

[shrewd lantern]

just craft a neck and ring for assa

[short radish]

[shrewd lantern]

and you're literally fine

imo

[errant ferry]

ahhh

[hushed roost]

prob recraft to crit/mast

[shrewd lantern]

you only have 3 crafted items

in that gear

so shouldnt you have more sparks

[hushed roost]

yeah i do, guess i could do that

[left ledge]

just sim crit/mast haste/crit haste/mast variations of necks and rings

and make whichever is best

[shrewd lantern]

literally only itms i swap

to play assa are ring and neck

my sub sim hates logic alpha for some reason though

even on patchwerk

[left ledge]

well there's not much else to swap...

[hushed roost]

just feel like the platform mobs are gonna melt now that we're on nexus

lmao

[left ledge]

tier+cloak is set in stone. best belt for sub is best for sin

[shrewd lantern]

yeah ima tell them let me solo platform

or im going sin

probs

xd

[lilac stag]

This made it worse. They ended up further out of my limited peripheral vision.

https://tenor.com/view/cant-see-shit-gif-10340128

[left ledge]

how did that make it worse

you run far before the mechanic happens

and you look at the boss

[lilac stag]

I don’t have peripheral vision

[left ledge]

they shouldnt be in your peripheral?

running far makes them all in a small arc of each other

[lilac stag]

When I backed off, they ended up on the edge of the room outside of my view

[left ledge]

well they dont spawn based on your position

they spawn around the boss

[lilac stag]

I ran to center

[left ledge]

just run to near where you pulled him

thats what our ranged do

[hushed roost]

prob should switch to dawnthread as well lol, using lens right now

XD

[left ledge]

basically right after you do that last soak

[shrewd lantern]

was it plexus or nk belt

idr

[left ledge]

you can just fk off

[shrewd lantern]

my plexus belt has avoidance on it though

[left ledge]

nexus

[lilac stag]

Towards the outer ring then to get them to spawn towards middle

[left ledge]

no no no

it doesnt matter where you are

they spawn independently of where you are

[shrewd lantern]

the difference is likely so minor

between the two belts

we have so few flexible slots this tier lmao

[left ledge]

ill draw a shitty lil paint visual

[lilac stag]

Perfect

[tepid trellis]

They just spawn around where the boss is

[left ledge]

masterpiece

there you go

[tepid trellis]

Its that simple

[left ledge]

if you're struggling with the ghosts, just do the soak and go far

[shrewd lantern]

idk if i play sub on araz

adds lived 1.5 gcds pre uncap

😭

[left ledge]

im just gonna play sub to play what im comfortable with

cant give a fuck about parsing anymore

parsing has been complete garbage for so long

[shrewd lantern]

honestly real

[lilac stag]

The last set it’s the dragon pools that sometimes overlapped and I couldn’t see shit at times. Reminds me of the bfa boss. That shit triggered me.

[shrewd lantern]

i need db ring

or priory neck

🙏

[tepid trellis]

What sophic devotion does to a mfer

[shrewd lantern]

lmao that shit was cursed

[left ledge]

that tier was actually unbelievably dogshit

[shrewd lantern]

was that a tier or

expac

[lilac stag]

bring back TD procs

[left ledge]

it was exceptionally bad in season 1

because btw! and if nobody knew this

[shrewd lantern]

yeah but season 2 was

gloomblade

x10000000

[left ledge]

using a SL enchant on an heirloom dagger was more dps in your offhand

than sophic devotion

haha!

[shrewd lantern]

oh funny you speak of that

early sl s1

it was better to use force multiplier

on diver's folly

as outlaw

[left ledge]

my main issue with sophic though was that my sim would put it at like a 20-25% uptime

and over the entire night of raiding

[shrewd lantern]

then they disabled folly

to not work on characters at 60

[left ledge]

id have 11% uptime

[lilac stag]

Oh snap. I need 10 gilded crests on reset to upgrade everything.

[shrewd lantern]

i liked checking sophic procs

and none of it

was during cds

[tepid trellis]

Skill issue

[left ledge]

yeah i didnt bother checking after a certain point

and then the ring patch came

and i just didnt play that patch

you're gonna fuck me with sophic

then add another rng dogshit damage proc

ok

[lilac stag]

Did you not raid ring patch?

[left ledge]

no

[shrewd lantern]

nah that was when

you prayed for grief resets

on farm

i've had terros weeks where torch was #1

because our shamans liked to ankh on cd

on that boss

[left ledge]

here's my 10.0 ethical logs

[lilac stag]

I used to try to tricks someone for them to pull aggro

[left ledge]

and this is 10.0.7

i did not play the game

[lilac stag]

enhance was an easy target

[shrewd lantern]

you know what would have been big brain

fated season md a boomy on fyrak

then torch opener

before outlaw players deciding to driveby hook

and hope torch bugged out to cleave

[tepid trellis]

noob

[warm marlin]

I just got declined from a normal raid trying to get my carved crests for tomorrow

[lilac stag]

How many crests are you short?

[warm marlin]

A lot

If I get 42 more carved I’ll only need to do 4 keys on reset to have most stuff upgraded though

[lilac stag]

I need to buy boots tomorrow on war

[left ledge]

i was not allowed to stay on dathea platform

[warm marlin]

Just my 4 723 crafted pieces

Cba

[left ledge]

i will not tolerate slander from people who had that privilege

[warm marlin]

728.25 surely good enough

[tepid trellis]

not sure i farm out crests

cba

with valor being a thing as well

[left ledge]

filthy proccer

[tepid trellis]

wdym

[left ledge]

PRIMORDIAL STONES

YEAH

THATS WHY I DIDNT PLAY THAT PATCH

[tepid trellis]

i have one thats way more rng

look at that trinket rng

[acoustic elbow]

yeah the adds tend to disapear, especially on araz, not quite sure how to deal with him on assa tbh

[bleak night]

you deal with araz as assa by changing warcraftlogs to boss damage parse

[radiant swift]

is crest uncapped next resett?

is there more to turbo boost besides uncaped crests and 3 items u can buy in the spawn of all 1 per 3 weeks?

[left ledge]

1st question yes
2nd question no

turbo boost is just there to replace fated

ngl i enjoyed fated more, they couldve iterated on the affixes

instead i just get the same slop content but my gear number goes higher

[tepid trellis]

100% prefer turbo

[radiant swift]

what was fated about?

[left ledge]

you got special affixes during bosses

[tepid trellis]

well

[left ledge]

each one did something different

[tepid trellis]

that was only in SL

last fated

there was nothing

[left ledge]

i dont know wtf awakened was

tbh

that was actual dogshit

[radiant swift]

was it not fun? bad affixes?

[left ledge]

it was fun

you could do insane damage

[tepid trellis]

they were dogshít

[left ledge]

the fkin orbs that spawned

big boom

[lilac stag]

if you want affixes run m+ 10s

[left ledge]

although it was pretty laggy

[lilac stag]

Keep that shit out of the raid

[radiant swift]

what was the talk about warbound stuff and valorstone? can i equip alts faster now?

[radiant swift]

these are shit ngl

[left ledge]

eh idk, i feel like if they were a bit more iterative the fated affixes couldve become something just fun

i liked how fast bosses could die with the orbs

[lilac stag]

what they implemented was poop. They could have been a lot better, but that seems standard for bliz ideas.

[left ledge]

fwiw though i dont even remember the other affixes

because they were prob just dogshit

the only ones i remember are the orbs

[tepid trellis]

i do

[left ledge]

did you at least like the orbs?

[tepid trellis]

no

[bleak night]

[left ledge]

damn why not

[tepid trellis]

anything that causes lags in my raid

i want to burn

[left ledge]

oh

yeah the fps drop was kinda crazy

[tepid trellis]

buff capped out at 40