subtlety

[warm marlin]

No more rng

[hazy breach]

Yes disorienting removes the annoying rng

[warm marlin]

Was checking logs and I got it like 17 pulls in a row

Full clones

No lust

The math should be something like .3s from the final clone delay, .4s from both coups so it’s very close within the final .3s every time but it should be essentially guaranteed

or it has been for me

[plush glen]

does a /reload work for the loading screen key start prism tech?

[slate marlin]

What is that

[fleet wharf]

I don't wanna chase down a specific message, but what's the forbidden tech?

[hazy breach]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[warm marlin]

#1065728795455266888 message

It seems to have a secondary impact that I didn’t think about, which is that the normal human delay can be the millisecond difference between your final clone being in tfd or not

[stone patrol]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[warm marlin]

but it should be the case that since sht is only pseudo rng you can get the full cb sectec off every time. It might be slightly reliant on a wind fury proc but I’m not sure

[proven falcon]

!talents

[fleet wharf]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[lilac stag]

At least in keys it’s way more reliable with windfury vs not

[proven falcon]

It seems like people are not going with the Wowhead talent build(I am looking at Archon.gg). Any idea why?

[lilac stag]

Builds are similar. We have a lot of shitty talents.

[fleet wharf]

just stick with tea replicating shadows with finality if you don't know what to take

[lilac stag]

Swap tea to cold blood when you get more comfy

[proven falcon]

cool, ty

Been playing ass so far

and been wanting to try sub

[lilac stag]

glhf

me sitting on cds screaming at the tank to pull more in priory

https://tenor.com/view/screaming-gif-scream-angry-mad-annoyed-gif-1924792145441447316

[opal mantle]

tea/cold blood is situationnal more than anything

just go with the one you prefer

[lilac stag]

Vigor is easier to learn with / more enjoyable to start imo

[opal mantle]

in keys with lot of chain pulls/more apm i like tea more

always

[plush glen]

also just better than cb in keys imo

[opal mantle]

and in like dawn or stree cold more

[plush glen]

way easier to spam feint

[opal mantle]

yea

[fringe palm]

no assa fixes, no sub buffs. log back on your dh

[north schooner]

having 18 prism stacks and blades ready and seeing a 4 mob pull

[lilac stag]

Get in line with your assa fixes.

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid trellis]

trust its coming

[lilac stag]

laundry fucking list of sub fixes way ahead of your little tier set issue

[fleet wharf]

is it me or does the FB 4p sometimes not work?

[lilac stag]

The DH or the fixes.

[fringe palm]

i mean the 10%+ aoe nerf without even a patchnote who cares about tierset

[lilac stag]

too bad so sad

[opal mantle]

? whats that

[fringe palm]

read pins

[left ledge]

Sub ST buffs not happening

We do too much aoe

The devs can not fathom this trap they’ve put themselves in

[lilac stag]

As if they’re even looking at it. They’ll see assa dip below the 50% mark and just flat buff it

[left ledge]

You can tell they are mind krangled by the way they were buffing bp early

They have no idea what sub even does

[lilac stag]

no one does. lol

[opal mantle]

oh its old

[left ledge]

The solution is simple though

[lilac stag]

Assa just isn’t used to not getting patch notes updates.

[left ledge]

All they have to do is buff blades

After they buff blades only two steps remain

[lilac stag]

short term sure

[pallid inlet]

Here me out, sec tech buff

[left ledge]

Buff black powder

[lilac stag]

Buff dance and buff BP

[left ledge]

Then the final step

[pallid inlet]

Because they have no clue

[left ledge]

Buff black powder

And that’s sub rogue ST fixed

[vale pine]

Buff rupture

[pallid inlet]

Never use eviscerate always black powder

[vale pine]

and you fix some of the sub problems

[left ledge]

That can be a mini step

[opal mantle]

sub is fine trust

just have to gut war and bm and we can enter keys again

[left ledge]

What if black powder just applied rupture

???

[opal mantle]

sick idea

[pallid inlet]

Let him cook

[left ledge]

Reapplications of rupture cause the remaining damage to happen instantly

[shut ridge]

dude wants to BP in ST -so- much

[vale pine]

basically the spells you would want to buff:

• Rupture - because rupture right now is kinda meh
• Evis - because BP is compared to it too strong
• Secret - just moving it from 5 -> 8 target soft cap would be very helpful

[opal mantle]

we dont need any aoe buffs tho

to be honest

[left ledge]

We do

[vale pine]

we arn't insane in aoe

[shut ridge]

delete bp

[vale pine]

the only reason we see play atm is a busted trinket

[left ledge]

I want to be the best in the game

[vale pine]

or well two

[opal mantle]

i feel like we are quite good in aoe

[vale osprey]

Maybe not in good ole weekly 12s, but if you're in a push group with frost dk + mm 😭

[left ledge]

You know I was once a delete bp believer but I think that path leads to only despair

Delete bp is only valid if combo comes back but seeing as everyone and their mom can funnel except sub

I don’t think combo is coming back

[vale pine]

what spec do we beat in sustained aoe?

[left ledge]

Feral Druid

[fringe palm]

no

[plush glen]

holy and disc

[vale pine]

i honestly don't know

because all of the meta classes, we won't

and even within rogue, we probably lose

[opal mantle]

all the specs in the game besides fury bm frost dk

id say

by experience

[vale pine]

DH easy beats you

[opal mantle]

not my xp

[plush glen]

in sustained aoe nah

[fringe palm]

sustained aoe is not 30sec

[opal mantle]

im only pushing 17-18s rn might be wrong higher

[vale pine]

ye

as impy says

its not

"i have 18 stack prism, who beats me"

[shut ridge]

all paths lead to despair

[fringe palm]

youre not only getting beaten in overall by those classes, even if you exclude bosses

[dusty totem]

Sub is just not tuned that high atm

[opal mantle]

talking m+ overalls here

[dusty totem]

You can see that quite easily by just looking at st

[opal mantle]

really rarely beaten by smthing else than fury dk or bm

ngl

[fringe palm]

yeah if you top overall your group is bad

[brave harbor]

lol

[opal mantle]

well its 17+ im sure they do their best idk

im doing my best

[fringe palm]

not trying to be mean but the "people" you see in 16-17s are often very questionable

you might be really good and theyre slightly worse but they also might be terrible

[tepid trellis]

fwiw feral druid if they spec "AoE" has some insane fucking constant AoE dmg

[opal mantle]

feral true

but so rare to see

and their boss dmg is shit

if they do so

[tepid trellis]

still quite a bit better than what assa can do

their single target does tank a bit

but not as extreme

[opal mantle]

assa is hororendous

never seen that

[dusty totem]

There are quite a few bosses where assa can do very good boss dmg tho because of easy funnel options

stuff like 2nd boss eco

But yeah on like 2 boss priory you might aswell go afk

[opal mantle]

yea assa needs fix

let me play kingsbane man

[plush glen]

are there sub keys and ass keys atm or is it pretty much sub every key?

[opal mantle]

sub

imo

[haughty mural]

If our aoe would be that crazy good, we would see more sub rogues at the top top end

[opal mantle]

no cause the spec just slightly weaker than fury bm frost imo

not that dfar

but ppl wont bother playing something weaker for fun

we might be super broken for a while if they buff sub while nerfing others

[vale pine]

damn

[summer peak]

hey

are people Storming in ST between Coops?

or is taht just aoe?

[hazy breach]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[storm field]

anyone that can come dm and tell me why I do negative damage?

[iron plover]

Is there any big jump in difficulty after +15s?

Finally got resil after failing 9 priories in a row

[karmic harbor]

16s are easy, the people still doing them aren't great

[limpid sage]

Yes but the biggest jump is that you can’t carry as hard anymore

[chrome palm]

I don’t even think sub is worse damage but why in the world would you take a sub instead of dk which is invincible and has grip, amz

[plush glen]

bp should apply rupture to enemies and ams to friendlies

[swift tinsel]

should rework DS and make rupture act like singular focus

[queen rain]

party wide cloak of shadows lmao

[swift tinsel]

one target

siphons damage

omegalul copium is that's happening

hence the DS set nerf and never touching it all xpac

also why sin bug isn't being touched

phasing it out

[fiery rampart]

guys

i made a demo lock

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/sukuna-malevolent-shrine-copium-gif-17048246567311451549

[fiery rampart]

also can we get shadowlands sub rogue back

[swift tinsel]

no

[fiery rampart]

ok

let us get sanguine depths next season then

bis dungeon

[plush glen]

I'd kill for sd

[fiery rampart]

bro how many people would cry

[last gate]

should i do soak on araz?

[fiery rampart]

about 2nd boss

[swift tinsel]

only if they double add spawns in the gauntlet

and halve orbs on that bitch boss

[last gate]

like is it normal that they assign sub for soak?

[opal mantle]

yup thats the main issue

but buffing sub dmg by 4% wont help

that

[plush glen]

shroud used to be a raid buff in keys and rogues used to have some of the best stops in keys

[karmic harbor]

1st and 3rd sure

if your 3rd soak isnt in narnia at least

[plush glen]

now just hope you're tuned 10% better than everything else for a spot

[limpid sage]

I do all 3 yes

[last gate]

how you soak first? like im always on my full cd

should i say fk the dps and go soak?

[graceful osprey]

Shroud of Shadows: Cloak of shadows extends to all raid members
Holy blizzard please

[vale pine]

i like my idea of a ryze like aoe teleport

but i think thats too cool for a old game like wow

[fiery rampart]

raid wide shadowstep

imagine

[swift tinsel]

group cloak would go prettttty hard

[fiery rampart]

holy fuck

[swift tinsel]

gallywix and dimensius say hi

[fiery rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/hey-girl-hey-hey-there-oh-heyyyy-oh-hey-there-you-gif-11372691295730809478

[swift tinsel]

accidentally mouseover giant purple hand = gg bye raid

[zinc river]

hi if u have Coup the grace ready

[fiery rampart]

just press evis

case closed

[zinc river]

should use it twice before entering dance

or save it to use inside dance ?

[plush jackal]

is this good?

for m+

[graceful osprey]

So much power. It could cause so much chaos or be absolute clutch

[karmic harbor]

If you log it'll tell you what % your damage was for the dungeon at that key level

Compared to other logged runs at least

[plush jackal]

hmm i dont log, but ill do it tomorrow

[graceful osprey]

Wasn’t there a time where kidney shot was AoE?

[hazy breach]

1 week of ptr

[left ledge]

It got deleted

They didn’t even try to make it work

They just said no

[graceful osprey]

Ahh damn, I wished that passed through lol

[left ledge]

It could’ve been fine if adjusted

[vale pine]

people lost their mind about it

so it was removed

[graceful osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-why-pepe-pepehands-crying-gif-12683546

[vale pine]

the 2 aoe cc's rogue has now are:

• aoe blind
• aoe silence (assassiantion only)

[limpid sage]

Our first soak is melee soak

[lilac stag]

sprint and step and pray

[last gate]

(no one gets the 2nd one*)

last time i seen it was dragonflight

s 1 or 2

[vale pine]

people in DF told me its troll to not take it

[short aurora]

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[vale pine]

but the trade off is higher in TWW, so now i get told the opposite

[bleak night]

back in DF it was significantly more easy to take

[vale pine]

exactly

but even then

people argued that the trade off could be significantly higher and you would take it, because its just soo good

it just turns out, that nobody is willing to sacrafice dps for utility

[bleak night]

it also just turns out its not actually that good in a coordinated group

still very good in pugs

aoe kidney when

[vale pine]

silence is still a good form of cc

and you get a dr on top

so it brings value, and you can use it efficiently in groups

its just, stuff dying faster is a more efficient way to deal with adds

[summer peak]

does anyone have a MRT Reminder i can past for Ara CD usage?

araz

[vale pine]

think https://www.lorrgs.io/ has a option to export

[swift tinsel]

yeah you can copy the timers directly into MRT/Liquid TR

from lorrgs

[short aurora]

lol you can survive a back to back conquer soak on kign salhadar

i didnt know that

[ionic thorn]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[coarse island]

!rotation

[night hawk]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[night hawk]

my secret technique+cold blood macro doesnt work. anyone got a working one?

[plush jackal]

i got unyelding and lily is it good or should i change one of them?

[plush jackal]

its bugged

when u switch specs

[night hawk]

ah ok. how do i fix it? /reload or full restart?

[plush jackal]

i think restart

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[plush jackal]

or sum like that

one command showed it

[swift tinsel]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[plush jackal]

yeah

[elder pebble]

i know simming is best obv

[iron plover]

Oof

[elder pebble]

but is araz with prism good at hc level

[alpine wraith]

it is fine

[elder pebble]

is double on use crazy good in some raid scenarios?

[alpine wraith]

it is noticeable good on last 2 bosses for prog

[elder pebble]

I have mythic antenna as secondary

[alpine wraith]

but might not be best overall dps

[elder pebble]

alright ty

[alpine wraith]

antenna and pacemaker are very good passive trinks

[limpid sage]

I’d do myth antenna for sure

[alpine wraith]

i tried myth antenna for a bit on nexus

and always performed wose

but maybe skill issue

[elder pebble]

definetly skill issue

KEK

[limpid sage]

Oh I just mean in general

[alpine wraith]

yea man just proc more

proc 9 orbs on adds and intermission

ez

[limpid sage]

Not on that specific boss

[alpine wraith]

win

nah it can still be good anyway

it gives lots of agi

[limpid sage]

Not sure how antenna works in dawn

Do orbs fly away?

[stoic pier]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[alpine wraith]

depends on where they spawn

havent seen any fly away

[limpid sage]

I remember seeing some gif with treacherous transmitter orb flying away

[elder pebble]

how do you use cds/prism on nexus?

[lucid jackal]

What is cd

[karmic harbor]

on cooldown and 1:30 and 4:30 is when you want to use prism

[iron plover]

so what would be good?

getting into the +20s?

[karmic harbor]

@elder pebble if you can get autumn from your holy pal it makes it a bit easier for dmg amp

[karmic harbor]

idk im in 16 hell rn too, the animal behaviour ive seen in flodgate/priory is crazy

[iron plover]

i pray you will be able to escape quickly 🙏

just starting on 16s as well and groups are so hit and miss

[elder pebble]

When do i want autumn?

[karmic harbor]

whenever they first get it 50s ish usually

[elder pebble]

am i fucked witout?

[karmic harbor]

nah

[bleak night]

not fucked but you'd prefer to have it

[karmic harbor]

i dont get autumn because my pally "needs it" but it helps

[bleak night]

[karmic harbor]

we're 4 healing btw 😭

[normal compass]

Hey is there a way to play around the coup de grace refund delay bug?

[plush jackal]

i kinda miss the charge on the cdg

[swift tinsel]

I liked it

[dusk stone]

for floodgate, in the pull before big momma

the orange circles are rpgg right?

[bleak night]

yes

the little goblin fucker with the rocket launcher

[blissful gyro]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[bleak night]

long reload cast into a bunch of orange circles

[lucid jackal]

If you have 4/5 stacks of shadow technique when you press coup, dont spam buttons and just wait

If u aren't comfortable with GCD timings, get a GCD tracker

[dusk stone]

can you use evasion to sit in the circles? just had a tank who pulled extra and that pull was 24/7 circles lol

[lucid jackal]

U only have 2 possible buttons from this point right. Either strike, or evis, so being mentally prepared to press either

[night sparrow]

Yo guys, do I miss something or logs are just bugged af on Salhadaar mm ?

[bleak night]

they magic damage so probably not

[lucid jackal]

Blessing of autumn

[dusk stone]

bro my healer was telling me to evasion lmao

[bleak night]

[night sparrow]

alright ty

[dusk stone]

love when healers tell me to use cds wrong

[shadow lance]

It reduce 20% damages

[willow bobcat]

Only if you are Deathstalker

[bleak night]

elusiveness

[shadow lance]

no

Elusiveness

[bleak night]

its still not going to save you from the swirlies though

[shadow lance]

Maybe in 2+

It'll save you

[willow bobcat]

He said Evasion

[bleak night]

yes

[shadow lance]

bro

read talent

[bleak night]

elusiveness gives evasion a dr

as well as the feint dr

[shadow lance]

First fucking line

[vale pine]

20% less damage to evasion

[willow bobcat]

Honestly didnt realize that lol

[vale pine]

its easy to overlook

[bleak night]

it does tend to get taken mainly for the feint part

[cedar iron]

Can i rant that i'm top dmg on infused tangle on loom'ithar because there isn't enough focus on them.

[dusk stone]

i run elusive but it wouldnt save me from that lmao

[willow bobcat]

Good god how long ago was that added.

[dusk stone]

not in a 16

[bleak night]

ye not a chance

[dusk stone]

i run elusive though yeah its way too strong

you just take 30-40% less than most other dps

[hoary stag]

i finally got netherprism, do i use it off cd, priority certain number of stacks or only use on max stacks with shadowblades?

[mortal glade]

Hi, im new player and i started with sub rogue (rn item level 670) and its hard to play for me, should i change specialization or sub is worth to learn as first spec

[last gate]

should i even target swap to echo?

on araz

as sub?

[haughty mural]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[sullen yarrow]

hey any sub rogue m+

willing to teach some stuff

[lucid jackal]

Depends how you define worth idk

Sub is fun, decently strong

[plush jackal]

well i came to sub with fun in mind so i highly recommend you playing it

never looked at any other class or spec since starting to play it

[mortal glade]

is he stronger than other specs? i mean its very fun but just hard for me to do proper rotation

[lucid jackal]

The other rogue specs? yeah

[plush jackal]

its strong now tbh, had some pretty neat buffs

[lucid jackal]

Other specs like BM, MM, FDK? Not really outside of mythic last 2

[shrewd lantern]

So wait

why is cheat bad on salad

i guess everything overkills?

[warm marlin]

if you die in p1 you get mindcontrolled instead

and it will mc you before cheat procs

[mortal glade]

okay ill stick to sub maybe ill manage to do rotation xD

[shrewd lantern]

p1 is take the soaks assigned right

[warm marlin]

cheat is kinda useful after p1 but imo its sorta hard to die

[shrewd lantern]

and look at your ghost

otherwise you get the oath stack back

[plush jackal]

i relearned it tonight and it gave me around 1milion overall increase lmao, so yeah learn it

[lilac stag]

If you enjoy it stick with it. Since you’re new I’d encourage you look at other classes as well to see if any are more or less fun.

[warm marlin]

just press feint during the damage amp/feint starkiller/feint gravity smash

and ur gucci

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i dont think they're intending to go much farther than p1

first night

just checking what changes on mythic

[mortal glade]

Yeah i know how to do opening but with fights longer than 30 seconds im doing mistakes

[plush jackal]

practice makes perfect

just run keys

[mortal glade]

[shrewd lantern]

i assume the beams are just a straight up 1 tap on mythic

[mortal glade]

Thanks guys

[upbeat sorrel]

!wax

[wicked jolt]

Bubbling wax:

• Can be pickpocketed from kobolds in e.g. The Ringing Deeps. (needs The Final Candle questline completed.)
• Only use it on one weapon. (does not stack)

[viral phoenix]

@plush roost for that dark brew build you play when you have 2 charges of symbols, in between cds its 1 dance with symbols and 1 dance without symbols right? how do you play that in ST? just naked sec tech's with nothing if you dont have the CDR for the 2nd dance?

[rapid torrent]

how do you use shuriken tornado in M+? ive been avoiding it up till 15s but curious now

Do you ever send it inside a dance or just in between?

[plush roost]

pmuch

[viral phoenix]

what dungeons u playing that on? just prio/floodgate/ara? are there more?

[severe frost]

Can anyone tell me why crit sims so high for me? I have 28% crit and raidbots still tells me to go for a crit/mastery neck instead vers/mastery

[wheat sentinel]

How much mast and vers do you have

It wants me to rock the plexus ring too but I have a ton of vers/mast

[plush roost]

Im still not sure if its better, it may be better for pure aoe but you do lose out in ST/priority. Just been fiddling with it.

I thiunk if u play havoc dk then probs like floodgate halls eco

[nocturne oriole]

Iirc you send tornado outside of CDs. I too have avoided it

[severe frost]

I got 28.8% Vers and 74.5% mastery but every sim tells me to get more crit even though i feel like my mastery is low compared to other rogues

[wheat sentinel]

I mean

Sims don't lie

If it says it's good it's good, idk the nuances beyond that.

[lilac stag]

Just avoid the talent.

[wheat sentinel]

I mostly saw it used for rupture spreading and/or black powder outside dance. But avoid it

[lilac stag]

Crit is good. We are well past stacking only mastery/vers

[nocturne oriole]

If you aim for raid vs Dslice you’ll prob get diff gem suggestions. I too am getting crit suggestions

[wheat sentinel]

Curious what's meant by getting more crit though

Like a stat sim, an equal ilvl item? A mythic item vs a heroic?

[severe frost]

for example going for crafted crit/mastery neck instead of vers/mastery

[wheat sentinel]

Nothing weird there

[severe frost]

with already 28%

[wheat sentinel]

28 isn't a lot

[nocturne oriole]

I still have crit/ mastery ascendence dagger and nerub bracers

Too lazy to swap lately

[wheat sentinel]

Blessed weapon grip gang

[severe frost]

hmm alright im just gonna trust the sims, was just wondering why nobody else on raiderio was playing with that low mastery and high crit

thank you

[wheat sentinel]

I did get loom dagger from raid finally so pog

[wheat sentinel]

Crests are precious and I imagine they'd want to upgrade their mythic prisms and such first idk

Every char is different

Sims don't lie

[nocturne oriole]

Week 1 I got the mythic haste/vers dagger with avoidance - took it and it’s still going…

[wheat sentinel]

#3 Allstar sub rogue rocking the giga crit ring

So don't think your dps will magically become bad following the sim

As a bonus you can play sin easier

[severe frost]

yea i guess im just thinking too much into it

Thank you

[nocturne oriole]

My sim tells me the crit/vers neck is better. It also has 12 million (exaggerated) speed on it. So I don’t feel as bad

[hushed roost]

FINALLY

[nocturne oriole]

Takeaway is that we play with what we get

[wheat sentinel]

Nvm I was scrolled, am dumb

[wheat sentinel]

The what

That's another weird thing. My sub sims with wanting plexus ring + my outlaw vers/crit ring lol

[nocturne oriole]

Goes back to playing with what we get until we have it all (if ever)

[wheat sentinel]

Turbo in two weeks

Hopefully we still terrorize burst

[wheat sentinel]

Hell yeah

[upbeat pulsar]

Is it worth changing plater color for targets with faze?

[north schooner]

not really

[torn shell]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[dry stump]

i be wondering if i should learn sub to save my carpal tunnel from outlaw... what is the sub sections opinion on difficulty learning sub vs outlaw?

[tall venture]

is there an easy way for my tank to track tfd ?

[shy scarab]

Oufffff! Just bought 300 augment runes. I hope we dont use 300 pulls on dimmy boy myth😅

[lilac pendant]

are my stats decent?

[opal mantle]

its very different

[lilac pendant]

ups spanish

[opal mantle]

looks cool but just sim

[lilac pendant]

how to I sim stats?

[opal mantle]

usually i go droptimizer

and look at what the game wants me to loot

but there might be a easier way

i think you should not think too much about it yours are fairly decent just sim every item you get

[kind thorn]

Hi everyone, I've been reading a lot about Subtlety Rogue and I'm very new to the class. I have a question about AoE situations. Most guides recommend using Black Powder on 4-5 targets. But what about when we have Flawless Form? Wouldn't it be ideal to use Eviscerate instead, even on up to 7 targets or less ? I haven't seen this mentioned in any guides. Can someone explain why? Thanks, and have a great day

[lilac pendant]

u mean coup de grace?

because flawless improves all finishers damage

[north schooner]

because nimble flurry is only active with FF

but no, BP does more damage even at 4 targets. It's a tuning issue. CdG is still always used over BP

[kind thorn]

Appreciate your time… Just checking ways that I can improve. Feeling inconsistent with the damage. Some high damage some low. I guess if we don’t stick with a target 100% of the time damage goes very low quick

[north schooner]

sub requires uptime during shadow dances because that's when most of its damage happens. Losing uptime outside of that is less punishing

[chrome palm]

Sub is less intuitive than outlaw, but outlaw is harder to play maximally

[dusk stone]

Yeah you either get full up time with the class during cds or its rip overall, sometimes for the whole dungeon

[dusk stone]

Sub has more thinking outlaw has more doing but if you can play outlaw you can play sub

[hushed pollen]

how bad is tuning on shuriken tornado atm? seen some people play it but no one recommending it

[chrome palm]

Does nothing in st but still playable

[elder scaffold]

are there any real sub rogue key pushers that upload vods?

[lilac pendant]

The guy with a beard

Killakris

[drifting onyx]

i just picked up sub and im still wrapping my head around all the kinks, and im trying to get the opener down (the one on the image) and i dont understand how does one backstab during shadow dance? isnt it always shadowstrike?

[covert turret]

!premed

[lucid jackal]

Nope

U have a stealth bar and a normal bar

u probably have it configed in a way where u have backstab on 1, and shadowstrike on 1 as well

[covert turret]

When do you start for your next burst?

[lucid jackal]

wdym

[covert turret]

If sb and flag are in cd,

[lucid jackal]

I'm confused by the question

[covert turret]

sorry, if sb and flag are on CD, when should i start saving up my sd, symbol and secret

hope that makes sense?

[stoic pier]

When to use crippling poison on m+ >10+ ?

[charred kestrel]

The slow?

[bleak night]

mostly never

[stoic pier]

yes

[charred kestrel]

Only on packs that run away

[bleak night]

if theres something you really need to kite

[charred kestrel]

Murlocs is in gambit for example

[bleak night]

ye true

murloc tho wtf

[charred kestrel]

I wouldn’t use cripple for kiting purpose

[charred kestrel]

Fixed lol

[lucid jackal]

30 seconds

stop using cds at 30-35

[bleak night]

not this season

[stoic pier]

and when yall switch the talent on the slow cast (Numbing) vs dmg reduction (Atrophic)?

[bleak night]

in the past it was useful

[charred kestrel]

Depends on group. Numbing is good till stuff starts hitting hard

[covert turret]

@lucid jackal thank you!

[stoic pier]

How much would normally be used to sim embelishments?

[drifting onyx]

oh wow yeah i thought it replaced backstab. thanks

[karmic harbor]

There's a macro you can use, so you press dance twice and it dances on first key press then back stabs on second

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[torn frigate]

This has also been on my mind, I setup my sub years ago and forgot back stab was a separate button to shadowstrike. Now I have to work out how to get this macro into my life

[plush roost]

help

[warm marlin]

dont worry charrend

[short radish]

at least you're n ot these guys

[torn frigate]

Could you macro shadowstrike multiple times in sequence with backstab at the start?

[deep ledge]

no pego mucho en raid en single algo me falta pero no se

[warm marlin]

@plush roost owned noob

(if we did not kill on this very pull the guild was going to disband)

[azure thicket]

netherprism and boots acquired a ye

[warm marlin]

@lucid jackal autumn not needed accidentally didnt supercharge cb sectec in the amp too

[wheat sentinel]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[lucid jackal]

almost

[warm marlin]

you would easily beat me if your prism wasnt 704

but a win is a win

[hazy breach]

Imagine having a mythic prism, couldnt be me

we have buyers now so if i dont get it in vault its not happening

[warm marlin]

jealous?

[lucid jackal]

I got a mythic prism this week

With a buyer

Actually blessed af

[hazy breach]

Prot pala buyer today got antenna, prism and forge

Truly cursed/blessed depending on how you look at it

[bright elk]

if you're using a ritual forge with cds, do you want to use cold blood on th e 1st or 2nd SecTec?

higher trink buff vs higher stacks of flag

[brisk onyx]

Maybe pacemaker is better than antenna in m dimensius right?

[night sparrow]

Has anyone solved the mystery behind being able to shadowstep certain NPCs while some others u can't ? 🥸

[manic salmon]

i dont need to

week 4 baby

[high herald]

why does ritual forge sim as a dps downgrade over astral antenna? same ilvl

i also have netherprism

[azure thicket]

sigil of the cosmic hunt also simmed lower than lily/myth seaforium

crit is goo

[plush roost]

we did it gamers

[dusky yew]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[warm marlin]

grats gamer

[plush roost]

melee circle ran away from us on last grip my 18 stack flag ;-;

[warm marlin]

big cloak angle

[lucid jackal]

Because double on use isnt the be all end all

But it does have a lot of value on last 2 bosses, and stuff like soulhunter for example

[plush roost]

I was forced to use it earlier the one time my step target is late to cross ring

unlacky

[warm marlin]

unlucky

[plush roost]

its oaky boss dead me happy

parse is for losers anyway

[warm marlin]

fake parse on prog anyway

p1 dps hold gaming

plat1/2 dps hold gaming

[plush roost]

yep

p1 i get 4 supercharger and full stacks

[warm marlin]

3.5M p1 dps

[plush roost]

Poggies!

[long marlin]

is there somewhere i can read more about shuriken storm on single target

[warm marlin]

raid morale was a bit toast and we killed 15 minutes before our pres had to leave on our last raid night of the week

[long marlin]

not quite understanding

[warm marlin]

pretty

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[short radish]

thats the only reading you need to do

[plush roost]

I said before pull. Guys. remember. this boss drops a mount

[chrome palm]

3 trials got the mounts

[azure thicket]

is there a wa for tracking netherprism?

[warm marlin]

[bleak night]

[umbral fulcrum]

how do i go into cd's with a coup saved up but also rupture ticking

do i just send the coup as the next gcd after flag

or do i refresh rupture super early

[lucid jackal]

Flag > sectec + Blades > storm > coup

[umbral fulcrum]

i see

thanks boss

so flag > dance+symbols+blades+sectec > storm > coup?

[pine mirage]

@lucid jackal
Another quick question. Im not getting autumn. So after platforms, should I send a quick dance prior to damage amp. Or send dance at start of damage amp and go into a flag window after

I feel like dance at start of amp is optimal damage no?

Logs are like split on what they do so not sure whats actually good

[warm marlin]

you fly really fast and you get flag at the start of the amp without autumn anyway

[lucid jackal]

Idk what ur asking

do u mean nexus king?

[pine mirage]

yeah

sorry lol

[lucid jackal]

I feel like the 2 target damage is better

But i dont actually know

I dont think it matters

[warm marlin]

you can still fit 2.75 dances and triple sectec into nexus king amp

without autumn

imo its better to just wait to flag and do omega big prepped burst

[lucid jackal]

^

[high herald]

even in keys?

see most the top rogues using double on use

[short radish]

yeah but are you playing at a level the top rogues are playing at?

whats optimal for the might not be optimal for you

[bleak night]

it me

im the top rogues

[lucid jackal]

More downtime means more value of double on use

[topaz herald]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[gleaming plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fervent spoke]

Is sub a good choice for looking good numbers in lower 10-12 keys? I run with an MM hunter, and Ret Pally both of which look really good in low keys. Trying to find a spec that does the same for guildee keys

[chrome palm]

It’s ok but you can’t get full usage of your big cds

Assa can steal a lot of damage and pad super hard with bleed build in lower keys

[fervent spoke]

Thanks

[waxen moth]

thank you for asking that! have similar issue but other composition and my outlaw dosent fit at all so in thinking sub or assa

[fervent spoke]

Yea I’m trying to find a good spec to play of any classes that can compete with those two in lower keys. They just both have so much shorter front loaded damage that the pack is dead before you get stuff out. And the cds are short so then it’s just back up next pack

[short radish]

all specs are viable in sub 12 keys

[random comet]

Honestly rogue just isn’t it tbh, sub can with flag/blades up but none of the 3 specs just have instant blast

[short radish]

you play whatever you enjoy the most

[woeful wren]

btw what is sec techs reduced cleave dmg, is it soft capped also or nah?

[random comet]

Not like those guys

[fervent spoke]

I understand that, I do high keys, I just mess around in 10-12s with guildees and it’s annoying when the packs die so fast, that’s why I need another spec with big burst on short cd

[round abyss]

should i be using my finishers at 5 CP or capping to 7

[plush glen]

finality sims better than rotten in dslice but in both st and aoe sims rotten beats finality anyone know what that would be caused by? Also which do people prefer

[random comet]

Dev evoker Flameshaper has some fun burst

Even outside of your dragonrage

[fervent spoke]

Thank you, I’ll check it out

[random comet]

Great spec for low keys actually, aside from the fact that your major cd will last longer than most packs

[rocky ocean]

only if group has dam

[honest saddle]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[honest saddle]

6+

[lethal glen]

Is there a command to see the cloak spreadsheet?

[gray spoke]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[honest saddle]

whats the cloak spreadsheet?

the one for defensives?

[lethal glen]

Yea, that one.

[honest saddle]

I dunno, been a while since I looked at the sheet

let me try and find

[lethal glen]

I thought it was pinned but I don't see it up there, unless its in another chat because cloak is general rogue....

[honest saddle]

I checked search history and couldnt find. I think I have had it linked

ok that used to be it

[lethal glen]

Yea, just taking me to some job box site that is in russian?

[honest saddle]

ok

got it

its !def

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[lethal glen]

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[lethal glen]

Tyvm!

[honest saddle]

np

[lilac pendant]

I love farming aura with cloak of shadows

Like stand in the middle of Dimensus meteor

[honest saddle]

yuhp big dick it

[lilac pendant]

But sometimes a priest or a draktyr rescues me

And there goes my aura farming

[honest saddle]

DONT WASTE YOUR CLOAK

[lilac pendant]

AURA

FARMING

[honest saddle]

I am perfect. I never die. Cloak is offensive CD

then log out and say nothing.

[lilac pendant]

Aura is not offensive CD is an Aura farming cd

[lethal glen]

I was wondering if cloak would remove gravity in demi fight, guessing it doesn't

[lilac pendant]

But avoids gamma ray on p2

So

Weird

[lethal glen]

Thats the push right?

[lilac pendant]

Yes

Guess the succ is

Physical since

[honest saddle]

you could cloak raszageths succ too

[lilac pendant]

Gravity

[honest saddle]

felt good

[lilac pendant]

And gravity is physical?

[lethal glen]

!log

[lilac pendant]

If you could cloak gravity we could use cloak to flight like zen clout from Monks

[lethal glen]

If its physical would evasion work?

[lilac pendant]

[honest saddle]

I just reviewed your log

I couldn't see many mistakes

but dam seemed kinda shit

[lethal glen]

Yep thats my problem

Im like top 5 in my guild on pull but by the time I get to 2nd cd's im doing tank damage pretty much

And I know we are peaks but even after 2nd cds I don't move

[plush roost]

67up'i

[azure thicket]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[honest saddle]

let me look again

your gear might just be shit

[lethal glen]

I'm almost exactly the bis list from all the guides xD only missing boots and a better passive trinket

[clever delta]

Dimmy progg so fun

We dont control our p1 push time and bl

[lethal glen]

Just throw everything at it including the sink

[clever delta]

So i gotta send cds on cds to get then back for intermission in time

[honest saddle]

oh I see your problem, xorei

kill time

absolute worst possible kill time

[lethal glen]

Saying we killed it to fast because I didn't get my 3rd cd window?

[honest saddle]

yuhp

either kill it in 2 minutes or 3:30

[lethal glen]

I guess that would make sense, Ive got a 79 parc on a 3:30 kill...

[honest saddle]

I mean you did 710k dam

for the last minute of the fight

and 5 million for the first 2 minutes

so if they just kill at 2.5 minutes

which is doable

you just get a 90 parse

a lot kill in like 2:30

or 3:25

all the top logs are those windows

[round abyss]

when you guys look at logs what are you looking at? dmg windows? rotation?

[vale pine]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[lethal glen]

So I had to many casts before my next SD?

[chrome fern]

Bis list isn’t relevant until you’re in all myth track gear, it’s a guide, but there is a good chance you may find something not on the bis list is actually an upgrade

[lethal glen]

True, but from all the loot I've gotten its what the sim is saying to put on.

Unless Im messing up the sim which is totally possible

[chrome fern]

I doubt stat weights are that impactful, kill time and rotation are far more important

[vale pine]

this might be a good overview of cooldown management

[lethal glen]

I was going to ask if that picture is still correct with "the first dance" node extending first SD to 12 sec, but it does apply to 2nd+ burst windows...

Well thanks for advice, next focus will be making sure I get 8 casts in each SD window on burst phases

[lunar warren]

Hey guys, got a little question. Is worth to equip 2 mythic loom weapon instead off crafted weapon with ascendance?

[chrome fern]

offhand ilvl not that important

but, sim it would be the answer

[lilac stag]

For sub, likely yes. For assa no.

[tribal blade]

@tepid trellis 17 ara, getting closer

but i'm guessing now you'll be doing like 13 mil+ overall haha

[lilac pendant]

May be dumb dumb but why more damage everforje on mh instad of myth, is it because the embelishment? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hk6zdUJ7pzkMaWvBGWY8wj

[chrome fern]

you have no iterations with it in offhand

[lilac pendant]

so yeah

dumb dumb

[frosty bramble]

You didn’t sim it as offhand - but stats+emb = better

[chrome fern]

i can almost gurantee 723 mh with crafted oh will be top combo

[lilac pendant]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/teDFciMzN2MdmGW2encr46

fixed

im kinda angry becasue before this vault i ran like 10 dawnbreaker in a row for the dagger, i get this myth weapon i do a dawnbreaker to help a friend and i get the dagger

[lilac stag]

Still running vigor, finality?

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

[lilac stag]

Good man

[tribal blade]

i completely forgot to try x2 finality

[lilac stag]

So I was hyper focus on akar opening pull. Every Storm while going to first mini boss spread FW down the ramp. Rotten is useless.

[zinc dagger]

wtf how?^^

[lilac stag]

Be good

[zinc dagger]

You got a log of this run?

[zinc dagger]

Smart answer

[lilac stag]

He’s probably run more keys than 99% of the people in here

he just needed to cleanse his smooth brain of assa discharge from last season

[zinc dagger]

^^

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade you have mythic prism? I forgot.

[vale pine]

heroic is already rly good

[lilac stag]

mythic is ridiculous though.

[limpid sage]

Ew

[warped palm]

!log

[feral radish]

do you guys think prism and araz are must have trinkets for M+, been running lily and pacemaker will they do the job or too much dmg loss ?

[lilac stag]

Lily is a good hold over until you get a prism

[short radish]

youre fine running lily and pacemaker

[feral radish]

do you guys normally beat other specs in dmg in mythic +, I just am always behind for some reason :?

[short radish]

yes with a shaman + warrior/monk buff

[keen dome]

Sometimes, depends on the key

And if they're better than me or not

[feral radish]

been running 15s and I just feel like I drag the group behind 😄

[chrome fern]

anyone killing H dimensius and wanna get a brotha in so i can snag a curio

[tepid trellis]

Not bad

[rigid sparrow]

Ppl are stilk using rotten on m+ or x2 finality??

[azure thicket]

prism

[vale pine]

personal preference

[vale pine]

nicuu

[azure thicket]

last i heard rotten is better on a few dungeons

or like preferred

[vale pine]

the diffrence is small

rotten can be slightly better on pure st, but its gear dependent so a sim angle

[rigid sparrow]

Yeah thats what i thought... Allthought sim ds has a lot of dif

[vale pine]

finality is good, so you don't lose much playing it over rotten

[rigid sparrow]

Maybe x2 finality may be kind more st for some dungeons with hard bosses

Or low aoe

[vale pine]

which in the end means, play what you prefere

tea vs. cold blood is similar

[tepid trellis]

I prefer havoc

Checkmate

[vale pine]

tbh DH seems to pump in keys

not a bad choice

[tepid trellis]

It does

My DH is shit geared

[vale pine]

how does dh compare in terms of ease of play?

[azure thicket]

i was in raid spec hyuu definitely wouldn't have timed it with the low risk pulls the tank was doing

[rigid sparrow]

With all these issues on rogues x3 specs

[tepid trellis]

And i did 11mil in a +12 hoa

[rigid sparrow]

Im really thinking to stop having him main

[tepid trellis]

Its easy very simple rules

Since u play 0 movement

Outside of vengeful

[vale pine]

interessting

mhm, so even less reason to play rogue -.-

i wonder if we see rogue in mdi

[tepid trellis]

Maybe

[vale pine]

sub still has this big burst, but i am unsure if you can utialize it that well

[tepid trellis]

Very insane dmg every 3min

[vale pine]

ye

[tepid trellis]

Allows for some crazy stuff

[vale pine]

i could see it

[rigid sparrow]

Nahh mdi eill be with no rogues for sure

[vale pine]

tho probably not in all dungeons

[rigid sparrow]

Even rank10 rogues has already stopped getting prep with rogues for mdi

[vale pine]

kush?

or who is rank 10

[rigid sparrow]

Even kush

But kush is a player eho plays almost everything

Casual shindig are going dk and dh

Kush is having already max 4-5 dps

Ilvl

[vale pine]

i am not convinced of dk yet

dh i could see

especially in a combo with arcane

arcane is just busted

[rigid sparrow]

Even boomies

Are decenf

[vale pine]

boomies are rly good on aoe

but their st is still kinda meh

they go well with arcane because of the execute

[rigid sparrow]

No cap incredible aoeb

That's for sure

[vale pine]

whats currently played in top keys?

isn't mm/bm also good

[rigid sparrow]

Yeah hunters are good too

[vale pine]

ele shaman probably too, they did not get nerfed much

[rigid sparrow]

On everything actually boss fights aoe

[native zodiac]

Prot warr/resto sham or druid/hunter/dh/dk

Is my guess

[azure thicket]

mdi pulls also involve a lot of shenanigans

that necrotic wake pull into second boss comes to mind

[vale pine]

dk might be used for grip tho

[azure thicket]

lock skip and gathering the whole walkway into the boss

[vale pine]

their "fake utility" might be a central piece to bring them

[azure thicket]

there'll probably be a cool rogue play or two

[vale pine]

i could see kush play rogue

idk if anyone else will

[azure thicket]

is mdi played with the most current patch or is it a older version?

so 11.2.5 comes out is that what's streamed? for cs2 they're sometimes a patch behind when a tournament goes live since it's oct 1st probs we're all on the same patch

[vale pine]

I assume its latest patch, but i would need to read up

[native zodiac]

Brings brez which might be hard to get with certain comps

[lilac pendant]

what is the "enhanced visual" on our set when reaching 2.5m+?

[vale pine]

feral druid and restro isn't that bad iirc

[lilac pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/convoke-druid-warcraft-feral-gif-25565356

[tepid trellis]

still think you have the posibility of seeing rogue in very high AoE dungeons, if you actually pull around sub's 3min cd

dont think any class does that dmg, outside of maybe hunter

[vale pine]

arcane probably?

[tepid trellis]

no

arcane AoE is not that amazing

just does insane funnel

[vale pine]

ah fair

balance needs too long to do aoe?

[tepid trellis]

tuning wise im pretty sure its just a worse feral druid

[vale pine]

oh interessting

i did not play with a feral so not sure

but longer sustained aoe pulls, balance performs well

[tepid trellis]

same with feral

[vale pine]

at least did in the keys i did with guild

i assume stuff will die to fast especially if sub has things stacked up

[tribal blade]

possibly, let me check

[zinc river]

unseen blade wago

[tribal blade]

nah i don't sadly /cry

[tribal blade]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/R3zhnw4jWFVqZABa?fight=217&type=damage-done tank was logging

[wary gate]

If i need to explode a caster in a great pack, is it ok to switch to eviscerate or should i still stick with BP?

[tribal blade]

if you absolutely need to then yes evis will do more dmg to it

but usually just BPing is fine, since it does close to evis dmg

[vale pine]

you essentially trade off roughly 10% aoe for 5% increased st

if you evis instead of BP

(at least it was something around these numbers last i checked, unless i missremember)

[wary gate]

yea, i wanted to understand it was worth or i should simply don't care and doing BP since it's pretty close as dmg

[vale pine]

which isn't that much of a gain, most of our prio damage is in coup and so its less punishing to adjust

or well, its also not needed because the prio barely changes

[wary gate]

thank you

[zinc dagger]

Thx man! ❤️
I don't know how you reach those strong numbers^^

[limpid sage]

Doesn’t dk get there as well?

They also like netherprism I think

[tepid trellis]

nah they dont reach the same numbers during full burst, but they do quite alot more outside of them than we do

pillars be going crazy

[limpid sage]

Nvm they don’t use netherprism really

[chrome fern]

the unholy trinity of funnel, assass / arcane / dh, and jsut pull adds on all the bosses

[clever delta]

Dimmy what a funny buss

Boss

We changed one person in roster and it look like reprogress of p1 😄

[silver blaze]

is this spec as complex as icyveins is making it seem

[clever delta]

Depends, try it out and report back

[errant steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/jyp-jyp-keyboard-keyboard-jyp-piano-jyp-keyboard-feet-gif-13475469

[vale pine]

the spec is harder to learn, but the baseline concept is not too hard to understand

this is basically what you need to know in terms of cooldown management

[azure thicket]

in dungeons the tricky bit was knowing when to save shadowblades and just dance sectec

sub is fun machine though

[sweet raven]

Yo guys, just started raiding again on my rogue after few years, im playing mage on main but those blue parses haunt me

Can you guys help me know where i should improve :
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wr1p3JGyYP7KNfhZ?fight=2&type=damage-done

(ik prism would be the thing first but what can i do )

[karmic harbor]

compared with:

also idk why you're backstabbing so late in your dances, you want it to be ideally the first gcd

it does no damage

[sweet raven]

mine is below i guess, i should have backstab right after Sectec, then fok between coup de grace ?

[karmic harbor]

1s gotta take a call

[sweet raven]

i dont see FoK between coup de grace btw ? i dont even see the second coup de grace, is that normal?

[karmic harbor]

your blades is also too early, cold blood should be used on the 2nd sectec, your first gcd after using flag should ideally be reapplying rupture or evis not dance/symbols/sectec,

im not gonna go through and check you're getting the right amount of gcds in dance, but i suspect that might be a problem too

[karmic harbor]

it's an old pic before we got new 4p, but ye in blades or 4+ targets you fok between coup unless you get a refund

[sweet raven]

i macroed cold blood with sectech, shouldnt i ?
I should blades on first sectec?

[sweet raven]

i usually go for a third dance, your advice would be to refresh rupture then go for another dance

[karmic harbor]

macroing cb is a dps loss, have a seperate sectec only keybind

[severe prism]

i just discovered the coup bar weakaura, i'm not sure to understand it, what does the tick inside of it mean ?

[karmic harbor]

@sweet raven even in your first flag you use blades too early, when we go into dance/stealth we get premeditation which gives us full combo points on next builder. but yeah you want to use it right before sectec.

[sweet raven]

ok thanks a lot will hit some target dummy for muscle memory now

im also a bit confused about sectec outside of dances and how i should fish shadow technics between dance

[lilac pendant]

atm magic belt is better than hero belts?

[sweet raven]

also how many dance i should have before flag

[lilac pendant]

1 and a half

kinda

[karmic harbor]

1 full charge and 30s on the 2nd is good to aim for

[glad raven]

Whats wrong with macroing CB into ST?

[north schooner]

don't worry about sectec outside of dances until you have your dance windows right. It's extremely minor dps but if you mess it up by not having sectec in time for your dance it's a net loss

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[north schooner]

^ for shadow techniques

[karmic harbor]

using cb on first st is like a 2-3% dps loss

[muted kindle]

cant tell if im stupid or if sub is a bit confusing to learn 😅

[hollow spear]

sub hella easy, you're probably stupid

jk, it's a bit tough to pick up

feels very good once you got a grasp

[carmine portal]

Confusing is a great way to describe it. You need to learn your internal timers (when/where to use CD's) and external timers (boss/trash timers) you don't want to pop CD's just a boss goes immune or knocks you back or a phase changes for eg

[glad raven]

If youre going from the prio list it can be a bit weird to wrap your head round. Or if you've not played rogue before

[carmine portal]

Also smth that has been probably been spoken about before: should Shadowstrike act like shadowstep whilst in Shadow Dance

[glad raven]

what you struggling with?

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[tulip gorge]

I don't think so, coup used to teleport you to the target too and it was griefing so many players

[native zodiac]

God no

[tepid trellis]

it used to do that

and thank fuck

its no longer a thing

[tacit coral]

what does blessings of autumn do for sub rogue and why do almost half of public logged kills on nexus and dimensius have atleast one cast of autumn on sub?

[tepid trellis]

gives cdr

[native zodiac]

Cdr on all spells

[tulip gorge]

does it reduce cd on trinkets too?

[native zodiac]

No

[tepid trellis]

no

[muted kindle]

hard to pin point atm I havent played rogue properly since like shadowlands, ive been mostly a spriest this season so its probs just more me picking stuff up again

[tacit coral]

cdr on flag and shadow blades too?

[native zodiac]

Yes

[tepid trellis]

everything

that isnt items

[random comet]

don't need trinket cdr when you have netherprism 🥲

[tacit coral]

im only confused because even on logs where the rogue gets the buff they still cast flag and shadowblades at strictly 1:30 intervals

[native zodiac]

He will only cast blades earlier once

As in if he gets autumn at 1min you can blades at 1:20

And then at 2:50 again

For example

(this is why a lot of people take it on nexus)

And dim on 2nd platform

[tacit coral]

yes but wont it be reflected in the logs right now the log im looking at its still 1:30 sec between each flag

including the cast that comes after autumn

[native zodiac]

Hes just holding then for whatever reason

[tacit coral]

alright makes sense i thought maybe the logs were kind of spotty as they can be sometimes

[glad raven]

Just think of it as going up and down. Big bursts(Flag/Shadow blades) followed by maintenance (reapplying ruptures, spending points on eviscerates to reduce other CDs) followed by smaller burts, repeat until big bursts again.

[dry karma]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[vagrant fulcrum]

for the inbetween dances outside of blades

is it worth trying to force coup early inside one?

[fair anchor]

I see some people speccing into improved wound poison, it's just from HOA last miniboss and they don't bother speccing out of it for other dungeons?

[random comet]

there's not a tonne of other good stuff to take anyway tbh

shadowheart doesn't work

unbreakable stride has almost zero use

rushed setup maybe nice if you're hitting kidneys a lot

[wet echo]

There are also heals in priory if you miss kicks

[autumn pawn]

hey!
sub is more viable than assas in the meta comp? or same shit?

[night sparrow]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[cobalt otter]

!log