subtlety

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[hazy breach]

Yeah if you change zones disorienting stops working

Or well, the "buff" gets removed

[limpid sage]

Wish they’d just make it reset out of combat

[hazy breach]

They should make it so we always get 2x unseen blade after leaving combat or something

Starting boss fights without disorienting and not getting a reset during the first dance

So you dont get to coup

Feels horrid

[native zodiac]

No coup on opener in dim

[leaden prairie]

no !

they should reset your ub at start of combat

noob !

[warm goblet]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[vestal escarp]

Where would the friction be then?

[errant ferry]

Can’t remember if there is an atrophic spread sheet for MFO. If there is one can someone link it?

[clever delta]

Dark brew gaming in next expansion i can feel it

[karmic harbor]

is there a way to track if you have disorienting

[swift tinsel]

nope

LE's unseen blade WA might have it tho

vaguely remember there being a counter for it

[north schooner]

it does

well, it shows +2 charges of UB which is the same really

[void hound]

yeah this is horrible

[short radish]

!dr

!atro

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[vale pine]

rly like this idea

[lilac stag]

it probably wouldn’t start until 6-12 seconds after leaving combat.

[north schooner]

only if it says 5 in the tooltip

[frigid latch]

guys is double on use not workign well with sims?

i have an option between champ araz+prism or mythic antena+prism for keys

[hazy breach]

Its working well in sims

it plays it just like you would ingame, rotating between each blades

[frigid latch]

okay thanks

also crit seems to sim a lot higher than i thought for me

[hazy breach]

Ye just dont get haste and youre fine

[frigid latch]

like i have db ring 704 sitting in the bag for 691 crit vers ring

and other ring it told me to craft crit mastery

[plush roost]

Boy do i have news for you

[clever delta]

crazy

[bleak sandal]

Hey guys is sigil of the cosmic hunt good in m+?

[plush roost]

18.5% powder overall

[chrome palm]

Post the boss dam

[plush roost]

Its real

This is my cook for the season

[chrome palm]

It is also dreadfully slow you must admit

[lyric ice]

Hey kinda relevant question regarding black powder: if i unethically want to do most amount of dps without knowing what the word pad means, how many targets do i swap from eviscerate to black powder

[plush roost]

Wdym?

[chrome palm]

The builder finisher builder finisher rotation in blades

[plush roost]

Oh i still play shadowcraft

Drop 1x death perception

[chrome palm]

Ahh interesting

I thought you were playing the ptr cook

[plush roost]

Yeah i think its legit in big target count dungeons

Nah personal cook

Can probably drop 25sec symbols talent

[chrome palm]

Did you play tea

[plush roost]

Since youre always sitting on 2 charges before flag for about 10 seconds

Ye

What i was doing was banking sht stacks and a tea in aoe

Then dancing withour SoD

Since u cant 2x sod between cds

[warm marlin]

dropping even more symbols sounds miserable when you already have to send dance sectec raw without them

[plush roost]

I thought it would be miserable but it really isnt that bad

Most of your damage is in powder and rupture now

[dusk stone]

yo what do my vault is bugged

[plush roost]

Its not 10am yet

[tame agate]

Anyone knows why we want many raptures on a pack? Or is 1 on the prio mob good?

[chrome palm]

Rupture does a lot of damage

[plush roost]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7LT4y3Nzv2frGHjg?fight=6&type=damage-done take a look if u want

[lilac stag]

All the raptures to meet our maker

[warm marlin]

im not doubting the damage just that it would be very sad to play

maybe with tea its fine

well vigor i mean

[lilac stag]

Vigor fixes feels

[wet echo]

4

[lilac stag]

Like hot apple cider

[tame agate]

You mean by itself it already does alot?

[plush roost]

Yeah tea vigor make it feel fine, cb definitely banned

[lilac stag]

What if you hit 20% haste

[plush roost]

The mastery ontop of all your modifiers make powder slam

I wanted to cook warning signs so badly hahahhaa

[lilac stag]

I saw where you were headed

[plush roost]

I thought

[chrome palm]

Basically your finisher do little damage outside of CDs, you can put up rupture before using CDs, and then when you press CDs, the ruptures start doing a lot of damage

[plush roost]

Drop swift death and speedshroud

5head

[warm marlin]

last myth track tier piece yippee (from key vault because extendo )

[chrome palm]

Bittersweet

[plush roost]

I pray db ring or helmet

[chrome palm]

I think I’ll have to take socket whatever it is

[warm marlin]

myth dh boots and im full bis

just need crests

[plush roost]

Need ring helmet better neck myth boots and myth prism then done

[lilac stag]

surely there’s a mythic prism or forge in my vault

[wicked urchin]

i actually fucking hate this tier

socket again

almost lowest ilvl in guild

0 mythic pieces from raid

[lilac stag]

that was easy

[plush roost]

Is that not a catalyst myth helm ?

[lucid jackal]

Nice man 👍

[hushed roost]

cursed ass vault

[hazy breach]

Decrepit vault as usual sir, well done

[hushed roost]

2nd time getting edict

[tame agate]

ahh i see so its sort of like coustic spatter on assa or do i see it totally whrong?

[lucid jackal]

This game just makes me sad man

And were doing sales now so my tier is literally over

[chrome palm]

No it’s not like caustic spatter

[lucid jackal]

Leveling midnight with a normal prism

[wicked urchin]

belt ig

[plush roost]

Insane tmog bracers

[hushed roost]

yeah the m+ one is a little better

so taking it

[wicked urchin]

belt isn't really a brick if the delve belt nerf comes in a couple weeks

but not nice for sure

[pure jay]

i win at sub now yea?

[chrome palm]

Rupture just does good damage in cds, but you don’t want to cast it while in cds, so you cast it before entering cds. Caustic is your primarily source of aoe as assa in the form of a debuff you maintain on the prio target, totally different

Also it costs little energy, so casting it a lot will expend combo points = generates more energy and lowers cd of dance and sectech

[astral axle]

guy idk what you did but man you've had a shitty vault this tier

[tame agate]

i think i know what you mean. so i can spread rapture on most mobs and then send cd's. Does this also work withing the mini dance+tech windows outside big cd's?

[near jetty]

we play which one in m+?

[chrome palm]

Yes, spreading rupture should by default be a high priority outside of dance in general (when mobs will live most of its duration)

Think of it as filler when outside of dance

[lucid jackal]

Its been this way all expac bro

lol

[astral axle]

[tame agate]

ah shit ive been playing this whrong all this time 🙂 thanks for explaining it

[astral axle]

must've pressed KIR on a single buff ahnlacki

[lucid jackal]

Just makes the game so unfun

[lilac stag]

sigil closer than I expected

[feral knot]

does it use prism 1st that way?

[lilac stag]

no it doesnt care

[near jetty]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[finite sequoia]

another week without ritual forge

[chrome palm]

every vault ive had this season has unironically been like the best possible item each week

like heres the neck i had in vault last week but decided not to take begrudgingly

[lucid jackal]

Fuck you 👍

[upbeat sorrel]

https://tenor.com/view/pretty-fuckin'-mid-matty-matheson-cookin-somethin-crunchy-nachos-that-fk-it's-just-average-gif-15315175414530843960

[ornate ruin]

exceptional vault well played

[summer lynx]

Okay question, I have a mythic lilly and a unyielding netherprism. So I should use the lilly the first set of CDs and the netherprism the second set?

[upbeat sorrel]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[summer lynx]

Ty

[upbeat sorrel]

[warm marlin]

Hero prism -> Socket tier helm from raid vault -> tier gloves from raid vault -> mythic forge -> mythic prism -> only remaining non myth tier slot

[lucid jackal]

Ass dick balls poop shit 🎦

[near jetty]

0 signs for 15+ keys

wtf

[left ledge]

Brother

Servers just came up

People are mostly going for raid rep now if they’re on to see wtf the new enchant is

[chrome fern]

they could be EU

just saying

[left ledge]

I know they could be but EU doesn’t have sign up problems

Dead pug scene is an NA affliction

[chrome fern]

i'm just angry cause i'm having lfr queue problems

the problem being i have to be in the lfr queue

[left ledge]

Why are you queueing lfr

[chrome fern]

cause i'm 7/8 weeks now into patch with zero soulhunters boots

[left ledge]

Oh wow

That’s unlucky

[chrome fern]

i watched a healer roll for a 30% to 40% upgrade pair of boots last week

sometimes you win sometimes you lose to no loot council

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[chrome fern]

bro who are these people

[dusk stone]

i have gotten 1.25 items from loot council this patch X.X

[lilac stag]

We haven’t had a single cloth pair drop

[swift tinsel]

had the tiniest vault and managed myth loom shoulders, not bad for 2 options total lol

cba to play last week

[dusk stone]

logic gate alpha in mythic loom spot

[chrome fern]

gg's no lfr boots this week

[chrome palm]

@plush roost are you dropping deeper daggers for dark brew

surely rupture dam and 2% shadow isnt worth -1 symbols

[upbeat sorrel]

Make a heroic pug invite only people who have the boots or can't roll on it

That's how I got it on all 3 of my characters lol

[chrome fern]

i do heroic with guildies

[upbeat sorrel]

Do it on normal then

Normal fills super fast

[shrewd lantern]

lmao rough plexus belt isnt good for my sub sim

even at 720 or 714 socketed

[lilac stag]

Not sure what you have going on with gear, it was even for me at 717

but i'm criv/vers heavy

[shrewd lantern]

vers mast jewelry

might need to put on my logic gate alpha

[lilac stag]

recraft to crit vers and see if it changes it

[regal rose]

can someone tell me what ability we suppose to use on belt ?

[lilac stag]

crit chaos

[ornate lake]

Anyone ever got a mythic weapon after pre-potting before vault?

[regal rose]

is that same for all classes ? for dps is belt still best ? not anymore ?

[ornate lake]

I'm too poor for these shenanigans

[regal rose]

@lilac stag i dont see anything called crit chaos on belt

[lilac stag]

whatever the crit one is

[ripe flame]

critical chain is the name iirc

[steel sierra]

Boots sim much higher, but I am currently using Prism/Antenna and progging M Salad. With that in mind, which should I pick? Per sims, boots are 40k, trinket is 16k but I recognize the trinket has a lot of value for Salad/Dim

[left ledge]

go forge

forge GIGACHAD

[lucid jackal]

Do reclear

[regal rose]

@lilac stag is the belt still acutally good i thought it was nerfed

[woven geyser]

Quick question sorry if its dumb. When I sim it says Myth araz trink is not an upgrade, yet nearly every sub rogue i see is running it sometimes even at normal, is there a reason for this?

[warm marlin]

Tell your guild to do a heroic split to get heroic boots then take forge

Or be a gigachad prism antenna user

[fathom adder]

@regal rose gets only nerfed with 11.2.5

[fickle mason]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d3MQVMH44MjErPAsxZai95
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8LuikCa7BJF8rVe8A5K15k

IDK what to do

[left ledge]

if you dont have prism

you take prism

[lucid jackal]

Idk what to do

[karmic harbor]

ah guys my vault was too good idk what to do :///

[warm marlin]

When the static cantrip proc is just barely 2k ahead in a patchwerk sim over the giga insane burst trinket

[left ledge]

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT NEW ENCHANTS ARE THOUGH

FOR REAL

[karmic harbor]

i think its something from avatar

[fickle mason]

Got norm boots and hero prism

[sick sand]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[lucid jackal]

Just wait for reclear

[charred kestrel]

Belt isn’t nerffed till .5

[stoic pier]

What is being nerfed about it?

[wheat elk]

question, if you want mythic antenna from vault you had to have killed loomithar? or no

[empty minnow]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[charred kestrel]

Nfc they just said they would nerf it in the .5 patch

[vale pine]

you can get it without having it killed depending on the order of bosses

[hazy breach]

You need to have killed loom or any bosses that come after it

(so soulbinder counts)

[charred kestrel]

#wowheadnews message

[vale pine]

the order is like in the advanture guide, you essentially unlock all bosses that are below the killed one

[wheat elk]

so if i go 2/8 there a chance?

got it, thanks

[woven geyser]

Dont know if it got missed but does anyone know why Ritual forge and Netherprism are simming so low for me? Says ritualforge is a downgrade and i cant believe that

[vale pine]

yes

[chrome palm]

i am a single item level on a single piece of gear from the 720 achievement

surely hardmode drops bracer

[vale pine]

antenna always simmed higher, but forge/prism are good on fights with specific profile like damage amps or adds

so good for the last 2 fights for example

[regal rose]

@charred kestrel so belt is still best option

[woven geyser]

ty

[charred kestrel]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOHcwNThtMG5vd3h1b2t3N3hveDFsNHJoaml3d3pnMzd5OHN5d2x5NiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/78taQIUTF4x3aEy51e/giphy.gif

[warm marlin]

I need one more week 💀

[regal rose]

@charred kestrel sim with crit chain ability right thats only 1 worth using

[vale pine]

well

[charred kestrel]

Sim for best option now, or plan for 2? Weeks when it’s nerffed and you need to replace?

Do you boo

[regal rose]

are any other abilities on the belt good

[vale pine]

you can sim it, the problem described above will still not be easy to overcome

[charred kestrel]

Like fuu said. You can change which affect the belt uses in sims to see which is better for you. But in a week or two it will be a moot point because of nerf

[regal rose]

ok ty

[karmic harbor]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[cinder axle]

is Tea in M+ better then CB?

[swift tinsel]

yesnt

[cinder axle]

How do I play with it, just macro it to shadow dance or do I use it when low on energy in Downtimes?

[swift tinsel]

just macro with dance

[lilac stag]

@short radish vault check

[coarse hound]

Thank Rngsus we did it team

[vale pine]

diffrence is close, pick what you like more

[cinder axle]

y I never tryed Tea so I just wanna give it a go

[cinder axle]

but you probl want to have 2 teas for ur big cd window right?

[swift tinsel]

eh

[cinder axle]

so the macro would fuck it up no?

[swift tinsel]

you're getting a fuckton of mastery already from flag so the lil bit from tea is whatever

plus you'll have ~100% mastery from gear

[cinder axle]

but it gives mastery^^

[swift tinsel]

okay and

its a drop in the bucket

[cinder axle]

ok I will just do some keys with it and see if I like it or not. Gonna macro it to dance 🙂

[swift tinsel]

the more noticable part is having vigor

[cinder axle]

y thougt so

and sometimes my CB is fucked cd and i delay my cds

i think Tea is easyer to play

or not to fuck up at least^^

[swift tinsel]

I mean you macro both cb and tea

so its a bit of a wash

[cinder axle]

y but with CB u want to use it on cd to get it rdy in time and sometimes in M+ timers and pulls arent back to back

so cds go off

[swift tinsel]

or just use with 2nd sectech in flag

and never worry about that

[cinder axle]

I always use it one time between cds ^^

[clever delta]

so do i sectech masses in opener or not

[swift tinsel]

PEBCAK

[clever delta]

thats the question for tonight

[warm marlin]

How many eles u got

[clever delta]

propably one each side 😄

but one is missing tonight

[warm marlin]

I believe it’s mainly dev/ele that blow up the very first set

[clever delta]

im just not fan of that scuffed oepner

opener

[warm marlin]

I secteced first adds like the first day and then swapped to regular opener on dimmy

[clever delta]

yeah propably will do that

we had like 4 pulls so far and our side adds dies insta

[hazy breach]

Doing it on the adds is better, but not better enough to bother with is my take

[clever delta]

if im doing on adds, its like SS flag sectech

or i do something in between

[hazy breach]

Unless people come up with some push way earlier strat

[clever delta]

i will make just some oneshot macro as its too many off gcd stuff to press in that 1s window 😄

[swift tinsel]

whoa there Swifty

when's the Razer Naga giveaway

[cinder axle]

So i just checked some logs of like Priory 15-16 keys and other subs use way more backstab then me in the run

like 100-150 times more then me

and i use SS

i thougt backstab balde is caped for like 20 sec so what is the use of using backstab that often? Just prio dmg?

[grave delta]

Anyone got the consumes sim string

[lilac stag]

!razer

[vale pine]

lol

[clever delta]

fuck it im not sending adds

i have dev and ele on my side

[chrome fern]

macabre stacks

?

[cinder axle]

I always use one backstab after dance

i mean as first builder in dance

[karmic harbor]

if coup is up, it still procs unseen blade right? why are we only storming inbetween coups is storm -> coup -> strike -> coup ok?

[chrome fern]

are you using it in aoe to keep up fazed etc

[cinder axle]

y from time to time but not that much like them i guess

maybe just use backstab as builder in AOE when fazed is not up and otherwise go for SS?

[stoic pier]

Does the heal reduction poison works on the final mini boss before the last boss on HOA?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[stoic pier]

Nice

[ashen sable]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[livid hamlet]

storm in between coup only when shadow blades is up if im not mistaken

[karmic harbor]

ok, but why inbetween

[livid hamlet]

ur dam right it does, its quite good

[karmic harbor]

if im at 0cp and coups up cause i misplayed or used rupture or something, am i allowed to use storm?

[stoic pier]

good, and I think that for sub rogue is not a big problem switch from the dmg poison to the heal one

[warm marlin]

Neutral in aoe once there’s 5-6 targets or something to storm with coup up yes

[livid hamlet]

i build cp with storm on 4 or more targets. if youre in shadow dance build with shadowstrike.

the only time you will use shuriken storm in shadow dance is in between your two uses of coup ONLY IF shadow blades is active.

[karmic harbor]

again, why only inbetween

[warm marlin]

in between is technically a simplification

[karmic harbor]

if im at 0cp surely storm -> coup -> refund -> coup beats strike -> coup -> refund -> coup, if all we're trying to do is not trigger unseen blades

just 1 situation

[livid hamlet]

the guides explicitly explain why, let me find it

[warm marlin]

Your first sequence is better and you can storm there, but it’s pretty much margin of error to allow sectec storm coup

And storm between coups is a much simpler version that gets most of the gain without tracking extra stuff

You can storm before first coup IF you have disorienting strikes

And still only during blades

[karmic harbor]

ok thanks

[unkempt drum]

A maxed out heroic netherprism sims as a very large DPS loss for me at 5+ targets, which seems...very odd?

[shrewd lantern]

its a strong trinket

[warm marlin]

this was like 8-10k dps to allow fwiw

storm between coup is much simpler for a greater gain

Relatively

and you don’t want to storm twice because of danse

[unkempt drum]

Yeah and everyone runs it which is why it's so weird it sims like that. At 8 targets this says it's -800k (21m sim), at 5 it's -350k on 14m, but on slice it's like a 6% increase, I'm not sure how to reconcile that.

[shrewd lantern]

no one sims 21mins

what the helly

[unkempt drum]

90 sec 8 target patchwerk sim, sorry it's actually 20m

[warm marlin]

it’s a spymaster style stacking trinket that needs time to ramp

it’s gonna look bad on a 90 second sim

[unkempt drum]

Ah that makes sense, doesn't line up the timing well

[warm marlin]

You don’t even get the first big burst until 3minutes

[unkempt drum]

So is Slice just the best way to sim this thing? or like 3-5 min patchwerks?

[warm marlin]

Slice is the rogue standard

Aoe patchwerks don’t really work well with combat drops for tfd and other specs’ restealth effects and such

[unkempt drum]

That makes sense. This is the bump I get from a 710 prism in slice, which seems very strong haha

[warm marlin]

it is very good and dslice is only a 6 minute (with variance) encounter

with a key being 30 minutes it’s better than dslice suggests

[unkempt drum]

Even an LFR one sims at a modest improvement, about 1.5% better

(compared to a myth lily I should say)

[shrewd lantern]

yeah lily isnt very strong

[unkempt drum]

Yeah it's just crazy that I could take a 30 ilvl hit and come out theoretically ahead

[shrewd lantern]

im not surprised since spymaster was so glazed in s1

and this is effectively the same idea

[warm marlin]

pressing the funny button and going from 91k agi to 157k

[unkempt drum]

Off I go to once again pug fractilus

[random comet]

yay mythic lily in the vault! on my shaman...

[ornate lake]

Anyone tried with playing goremaw? Maybe in keys? It's a 3% loss but want to know opinions

[warm marlin]

It’s okay (bad) in st

It doesn’t flurry at all so it’s automatically awful in aoe

I tried it on ptr in the place of the storm between coups, except also outside blades

Same idea to not waste ub

kinda felt good

[cinder axle]

I found the solution... When u play with tea u can just use way more Backstabs on the bosses cause of 200 energy and i cant cause I play with cb... 1 Hour search for finding out I am playing it ok :D:D

[steel sierra]

Why does the Araz trinket seem to be the go to trinket on every boss fight over the antenna? Per warcraft logs, it's used significantly more on all boss fights yet the antenna is 'simmed' higher per spreadsheet?

[cinder axle]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[strange chasm]

we shadowstep and can skip all of p3 dim rings just about right

[heady lichen]

!MACRO

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[sharp bone]

Talent question here, Fuu's recommended m+ build has one point in Finality but Archon is showing big sub players running The Rotten instead. Are we leaning The Rotten, and if so, how do you play that talent? Does anything change?

[plush roost]

To play 2x finality youre already dropping inev and dd anyway. Youre trading sod for db

[vale pine]

feel free to use rotten instead, the diffrence is minimal

[sharp bone]

Ty, I'll stick with finality then, passive bonus suits me fine 🙂

[lucid jackal]

They are both passive bonuses

[sharp bone]

Maybe I'll give it a go then, I wasn't sure if we cared what buttons we press after but I guess it's always 2 shadowstrikes

[plush roost]

Rotten is a active performance decrease because i want to use a charge on storm so badly even when its wrong.

[uneven shore]

Choosing between M gloves to cata or H forge trink. I've already done all of H and N this week and no trink dropped. Trink is a big upgrade now, but it's achievable to get, and is worse than loom and prism in the long run? I just do a H clear weekly and +10-12's during the week as my content

[sharp bone]

I'm a dumb idiot so don't listen to me but I'd go Forge just to have an on-use, double passive seems sadge for sub and Forge is sick

[tulip gorge]

to be fair you could just farm lily and be fine

araz is strong combined with prism

[clever delta]

dimmy progg so far be like 😄

[dense perch]

Does Prism now reset on Key-start? 😮 Pre-Stacking gone?

[lilac stag]

Did you run time walking? Think that’s a chest reward

[fossil forge]

no.

[daring marlin]

on araz first soak do we soak or not optimally

[shrewd lantern]

not a huge diff

[dense perch]

its kinda in cds so not optimal , but if you dont got enough other immuners

[tall urchin]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[shrewd lantern]

we put our first soak just barely out of melee

lmao

Need to find out how to get plexus belt to win on sim

[covert storm]

time machine to turbo boost ez

[shrewd lantern]

it has avoidance so

long term its a good item

our cata belt stinks this tier though

[plush roost]

Get less mastery in your gear elsewhere

!

[hybrid beacon]

I was comparing my logs to some of the top m+ sub rogues and for example in Gambit, my nimble flurry is getting almost 25% less hits than other people which is really hurting my damage. Is it because im not using shadowstrike enough in my cd's or are there other factors to that?

[shrewd lantern]

highkey i need to

i have 110% without flask

i have no other vers necks lmao

[karmic harbor]

post logs

[hybrid beacon]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kZMBF9Y37CjdGLt4?fight=4&type=damage-done&source=321

[willow pawn]

bruh, is it really a cosmic hunt trinket angle?

my vault so bad im about to reroll fdk

is that trinket even good on mythic?

[plush roost]

Is oki in st?

Thats about it

Fractillus angle 8)

[willow pawn]

i play assa on frac

xD

[plush roost]

Xd

[solemn lance]

Mythic yes

[broken rampart]

Currently have a 704 (champion) Lily... it is worth taking a cursed stone idol on myth track from vault? It seems high on some ranking but it isn't simming that amazing.

[solemn lance]

Even when im good and dont do it, its all i think about

[dense perch]

Sadge ! 🙂

[solemn lance]

There is no question Hachadino has tried it

[cinder axle]

How much do you think it's worth to use Cold Blood between the 1:30 CDs with a Shadow Dance window?

sometimes i have to delay my big send cause my CB timer in m+ is off for 5 seconds cause i didnt use it perfectly on cd

is it better to just hold it for 40 secs till my big window comes up or delay my big window for a few sec to wait for cb?

[wicked urchin]

if you aren't certain you're able to line it up just hold it

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[dusk stone]

yeah

i dont think forge prism is better than prism passive at all in keys

i was playing against rogue with 3.8~ last season 3.2 current and i was barely less after a missed cast death

[clever delta]

how do i make this macro step my target if the blud in macro is dead

is it possible?

[frigid hill]

Should be a nodead conditional you can use

[umbral fulcrum]

add [] after the target []

which sends an unmodified cast

but only if the target cast fails

[wet echo]

should be /cast [@jonas, nodead] shadowstep; shadowstep if i'm not mistaken

[umbral fulcrum]

/cast [target=whoever] [] Shadowstep

is sufficient

[tall urchin]

exist?

[clever delta]

this one do not work

[umbral fulcrum]

add a space

[clever delta]

did

but im tryint it on dummy so idk

[umbral fulcrum]

hmm

that’s what mine looks like but with focus

maybe target breaks it

[clever delta]

yeah, surely he dont die again 😄

[karmic harbor]

#showtooltip
/cast [@focus, exists][@Target] Shadowstep

[clever delta]

target i just replace with name a guess?

[umbral fulcrum]

yea @ might work

[karmic harbor]

that macro steps to your focus if it exists

if not it steps to your target

[vale osprey]

Are the enchants we get from renown 8 with the raid actually significant?

[clever delta]

i see but i wanted the name

not focus

buts its fine

[umbral fulcrum]

i think you can @<name>

the same way

[mystic remnant]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[mystic remnant]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[tired dome]

Is Sub considered a difficult spec to play? Feels like it is

[plush roost]

Its unintuitive but once you understand how cds work its not really hard

Cds and Dance sequence is almost always the same with coup rng

[tired dome]

Shadow Techniques Combo point reset always messes me up

[plush roost]

Whats difficult is knowing when and how to hold buttons and in m+ the rate in which things die

[tired dome]

Sometimes I miss that its going to refresh and Shadowstrike into full CP

[plush roost]

U have a tracker? That should be enough. Theres also a bug with coup where it delays the refund and a bug with premed where it wont refund

Otherwise if youre at 7 you should be good

[tired dome]

Just have like that purple one

But sometimes its not even full up, next auto procs it and before I realize it, I'm alraedying queueing a Shadow strike

Is there another tracker youre referring to?

[tepid trellis]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[tepid trellis]

get the sound trigger

it only doesent work for the delayed coup ones

[tired dome]

Shadowcraft one?

[solemn creek]

Still no forge. 🙁
Do we think 710 lily + netherprism could be better then 710 pacemaker for mythic saladbar? Sending lily on start and plat. And nether at 1 min30 + burn phase?

[plush roost]

If your platform damage is bad play lily+prism alternating

If its fine and you want burn, do passive+ and prism st 130 and burn

[karmic harbor]

praying for a forge in vault tomorrow

[final gulch]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[charred kestrel]

idk what to dooooo

[stoic pier]

Does Raidbots have some kind of fixation with Crit Strike? My stat priority is supposed to be Mastery → Versatility → Crit, but the sims keep picking Crit options. This happens even though I’m already close to 30% Crit and have an antenna that pushes me to around 50% Crit during burst, while my Versatility is stuck at 25%. I’m not sure if the sims are actually correct.

[charred kestrel]

trust the sim

[tepid trellis]

sims very smart, human not very smart

also crit is not a bad stat for sub at all, think i have around 35% of it

[charred kestrel]

all stats good

[stoic pier]

Yeah, I was trusting the sims at first, but then I started testing some more Versatility-focused gear. For example, I swapped the belt buff from Crit to Versatility in a +14 keystone, and I consistently ended up doing better DPS.

[charred kestrel]

except haste

thats #feelycraft

[tepid trellis]

low sample size confirmation bias

[charred kestrel]

^^

[pure jay]

any sub tips for soul hunters? just send everything on CD?

[stoic pier]

Yeah, I know it was just a minimal example, but I’m starting to feel like I’m lacking Versatility, even though Raidbots keeps favoring Crit stats.

[charred kestrel]

dont CB Sec tec as they are running away

[pure jay]

my sub sims haven't even broke 5 mil yet QQ

[pure jay]

makese sense

[charred kestrel]

more #feelcraft

trust the robot

[tepid trellis]

this is the best simming gear set

for dslice

[pure jay]

i struggle to trust the robot sometimes

[charred kestrel]

i mean in like 10 years, give or take, the robot will be leading us

learn to enjoy it now

[stoic pier]

Yeah, yall right, fking clanker I cant compete

[pure jay]

ill trust those robots

[lethal glen]

Its probably not allowed to post clips in here right? I'm working on my rotation and I cant seem to get over 7m on the dummies in dorn. Cant figure out what Im doing wrong.

[tepid trellis]

clips and shit are allowed, self promo is not

bit of a difference in the two

[lethal glen]

Ah alright, is there a comand I should do like ! log?

[tepid trellis]

you can, but no guarantee that anyone will look

[lethal glen]

Thats fine, just don't wanna be the anoying guy who spams stuff into the main chat xD

!log

[karmic harbor]

If I feint + evis the add dash on nexus platform so I get hit by 2 so I can hit titan am I gonna die

[tepid trellis]

only one way to find out

[heady gulch]

was there a trick getting two unseen blades before boss is pulled?

[tepid trellis]

eh only thing is like some prepull shit

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[short radish]

socket gang gang

[pure jay]

what belt enchant does sub use? static charge? crit chain?

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[pure jay]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[pure jay]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

its in the guide

[pure jay]

it lists both

not sure if outdated, or sims even check it well. I know there's the bug in wcl that it only shows lightning rod

guess it says to sim it

[short radish]

attalad

[pure jay]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8pZK5TT4S1ubHQ4RfrmM1j it'll eventually break 5 mil

[final gulch]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[lilac stag]

Oh extendo time eh?

[short radish]

been extended since salad

[hushed roost]

You guys got a working tfd wa?

[short radish]

worst part is - i cant really use the socket till next week

[short radish]

!WA:2!1vvpZTrXB8iRIKrZa4O)GNW8pbebWdoHi74KyZKojB5KW4i75KmouDAVB372fFA3n7UNSuOcxLA9rq1afQHExq9nk8faxWhaZxaE27ojN3KkK2NF659xlSt5ULXLXVS6iMVG3seR8jx)sEhJcfpz7HYbnp65BFNh0Dmc)tXAdb)uu)fUGGXxqnyVGanXuymI7tfQ9fmUXBRgnB3WzIVqeHfhZBDmts6SESksEdQXi1pC1vTMOktS6mBS6Dx7bkKVHj46nC0gKYuQoJZmL8cGF00sNyuSWqIs)HlRYF(N1ndKehuScT(P2V1ssuedRVL393CTn287Y(zthspc4xpMGImuhoQlrxQEmOCpzeAarn0kBg8jPQ4jyDPZ0XEPYTVIeW670A)g7U7mWwXba4y3TQ1QTBR21CAFESM0OpecTY0qhfa0eukDeM4bS3g8v1JBS7(7CWUdJ55Xqj5vTHDps7m6NkWKF9sNd5rIIJI(biGHCYVDMujcveToRkDRRFPfgI4SUiBgBJKpyNKY15co5ucstAzueEOHE5jyiWSC4AtuknbkZy9jwESEtYTR3fX4GSj3o5BVCYDsQMSk88JEBeic0iJvxeQQxMl9QrqUWHeARypCPKYtaspK)rHkrmhhm2tOWeLRM9csXj5eISULtZj9frc13xOqHINLJ0JPzErKotLMGdjYR265XifPYoXrrvoKYmKKYdTwlLNx(5YYgsFJRMIG2TNL3rkVzky6xbcfKOCxVQ01W6sC7kWU2yPJSY8zkJUWKSo7FCQAFxjEBLMlXuh5SmNJefKoDuV2bT3t()sbrXgHTc6FidBO1RbKNNPzwFcof8xKlpFxmIeI8h4gejekQ8RMNN9gSDAkd2rywWGKRmsjmGt3gaR3CVMnKF67rlzpCSkdl))Vx)j7zYtLFX88cPI4ZSnoftkRGQNLf5IVwLBRzDdJsrZ6okcFgMRoUr(j189zyyaefvbgm123(dYcQPnpVr)WSc3TNFEepag(z(UgkOrkS1Q4Ku(ogAWouHKNCy(JjZCK0H59oO9UpPzJHZ08n)AP8ZMxciVH60S2dxPTBi5kxOYwWKYnKRmpXFxNu(LZpKUiB7rjSqQzL6rce(FMalLCLeJhYyIi0HwsoSrtr9GukKxxYPBCKHT01k8h)BNX2)UhHY8bELLTu(riT2fXXUWMs)oJSyzssDs)VLscljx0cJvWwEUIHz8q6zVPGl7Pb0is7ftcxE7f70EXotEnJDaJw3YMvzNzXtxlFehoNqhDX7RTWR(762nmZmAT8RtPhROE60TLESUsHYC60lsnGTk0tMs15TfKb2qLUyZwLRBVnM8ZDgoBeo5kRhZWJFudEZhfSzVvw7O6Vqi6UFX1QEpyBEA5DhfS5FFyRLnVCSDsgUtfjPOIYpEQHTdDBZ0iONf3Xtt6cLbV7EVQRvDJrgHF(E2Rv437FtgwE92uyfitPnv2gSbPY30cgIIiMbRuz90AZw56foH4yxenoW6eWXaKbD5ZFn)YgwET2YPrJMQ(5ZhEqugWclPyCRHj0jW2jqG9KP3Kl5CX44i7vewg8ygpR1dOkD(reISMTUzCSiDkR9Eq11xR69l37VE2)b

its also in kierons WA

[hushed roost]

wonderful

yeah ill probably switch to that one

Prob after I raid this week

[short radish]

i use luxthos

and copied it out

[hushed roost]

ah

Yeah I use luxthos on every class so

[short radish]

same

just copy that WA

and move it into one of the spots

i put it on the buffs at the top

[hushed roost]

thank you ~

[short radish]

np

[tall girder]

Wooo fim

[short radish]

woooooo jontic

[tall girder]

This application gig is not going well myth helper arc

[short radish]

unluggy

its probably kinda hard to find a not terrible guild mid tier

[tall girder]

Yea

[crude zodiac]

Can someone explain to me why someone would switch the talent node The Rotten for The Finality?

[tired dome]

Finality is probably better since it boosts finishing moves.. Rotten only applies on CP builders

and its limited application, Finality is all the time

[obtuse fjord]

mythic antenna or heroic forge? i have the antenna in vault but not 100% sure

[twin quartz]

The rotten is an option to guarantee find weakness, especially in big aoe

But you have to know how to play around it

But find weakness uptime is pretty high even without it

[steady dune]

!trinket

so are we a double on use class now? Seems liek araz/nether is what almost all the top people are runnign

[short radish]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lucid jackal]

Prism + whatevert

a lot of ppl like forge but antenna, dh trinket

All fine

[steady dune]

Thanks

[wicked bear]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[ionic thorn]

So how do you use Ritual Forge and Prism? Just send Forge whenever it lines up with your CDs and then Prism for the in between ones?

[hazy breach]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[ionic thorn]

Cool so the macro basically already takes care of that

[steel sierra]

Ran heroic, didn't get anything. Still stuck deciding on trinket vs boots. Boots sim higher (current hero track), but I have H Prism/H Antenna and no Araz trinket of any difficulty. Hoping to get an opinion

[twin quartz]

id probably grab the boots

your call though

[steel sierra]

They sim higher, but I recognize the two on use trinkets are better for salad/dim which we're working on

[lucid jackal]

With a buyer

I managed to get it

Against all odds

[short radish]

how was vault guy?

[lucid jackal]

Take a guess

[short radish]

aint no way

[lucid jackal]

I want you to envision the worst vault possible

[steel sierra]

Nice job on trinket

[lucid jackal]

And then picture something even worse than that

[near hemlock]

Do we still use shuriken storm on ST?

[lucid jackal]

.

[short radish]

2 pairs of feet + 3 wrists and priory trinket

holy garbage

[lucid jackal]

I lowkey want to take the bracers here, even though I have crafted, socketed bracers

[steel sierra]

Oh, guy - if you're free for a sec, any opinion on my last message up just a bit?

[lucid jackal]

cuz then I can craft ring with lens

[lucid jackal]

How much does forge sim?

[steel sierra]

Forge is showing 48k

[lucid jackal]

and boots are?

[steel sierra]

54k (704 but hero track) starved on gilded

[lucid jackal]

forge then probs

[steel sierra]

current trinkets - H prism/H antenna

Working on M salad so I was leaning araz?

[trail shell]

hey, what is the macro for death symbols? It is only used when the buff is not active.

[lucid jackal]

Ya take the forge

damage diff is small, on uses have value on last 2

[steel sierra]

Thanks!

[lucid jackal]

boots are also guarenteed drops

Or like, are more guarenteed than a forge

[short radish]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[lethal glen]

Noob question, do I have to hit symbols after SD but before backstab or can I do SD > backstab > symbols?

[strange chasm]

should my cds be 10seconds from coming up going into dim p3

im only getting 1 sectech in the burn with no autumn

[lucid jackal]

10 is a bit slow

U should be doing the fast flight

U might be like, 5 seconds late

5-7

[hazy breach]

The absolute ideal scenario is 2 seconds late iirc

[strange chasm]

Even without autumn?

[left ledge]

HOLY FK

OUR KILL TIMES

ARE SO CURSED

IT IS UNREAL

[hazy breach]

Ye without autumn, with it you have way more leeway and have it up exactly on pull

[left ledge]

i shouldve just held a set of blades idek

nexus reclear probably gonna be a hold prism for dragon angle right?

normally it lines up but i fear the platforms might die way too quick

[lucid jackal]

U have to do fast flight path

and U ahve to do it like

INSTANTLY when u land

[quaint lodge]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[quaint lodge]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[warm marlin]

flag up when dimmy burn starts

fuck an autumn amen

[lucid jackal]

u can for sure do it without autmn but its so inconsistent

[dry anchor]

Does using a 1h weapon like mace/sword in offhand effect us?

[lucid jackal]

extremely

Its bad

Very bad

[dry anchor]

Why whats it do?

[lucid jackal]

Makes this significantly worse

[dry anchor]

Ohhhhh

Ty

[vale vault]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[vale vault]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[sullen yarrow]

in raid st where we send vanish?

[hazy breach]

Kinda whenever

Its just full combo points from premed, doesnt really matter

Just dont do it in cds

[neat surge]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[neat surge]

!vanish

[pure jay]

I was doing good at the start/mid of the fight but fell off kinda hard if anyone can help

!logs

[strange chasm]

ok thats what i thought. Im still like 5 seconds

when the amp starts so cringe

[lilac stag]

@keen dome woyer kek zoomzoom

[warm marlin]

had 2 pulls today with it up on amp start

or like 0.5s

it is possible (just int your pargoth dmg xd)

[left ledge]

ok just to confirm

on frac

i can shadowstep as soon as he starts the knock?

[hazy breach]

As soon as youve been knocked yes

[left ledge]

ok so if i completely negate it with step

it still works

i dont need to actually go through the knockback at all

[steady dune]

Feels good man

[mystic remnant]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[hidden shadow]

Mythic belt>DISC?

[strange heath]

recommend reading wowhead guide, not sure what it is per spec but all of the guides should say, when in doubt sim it out

[swift tinsel]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[sullen yarrow]

hey guys

can anyone that is good with sims help me

[fickle jolt]

so if i have both the ritual forge and netherprism when would it be time to use netherprism? or do I just hold til the next shadowblades

[short radish]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[fickle jolt]

ty

[lilac stag]

Just post it here.

[short radish]

https://dontasktoask.com/

[sullen yarrow]

nvm

i just did whatever i felt like

[short radish]

based

dont listen to the clanker

[sullen yarrow]

also i need helpn with this

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/area-52/assaenjoyer

anyone that is good can check my mistakes

i aprecciate it

im trying to be better

[tall girder]

I think this clanker is alright he tells me what does more damage

[sullen yarrow]

cant difference what is wrong

[short radish]

just so you know, it is very unlikely you will get a response to this

no one is going to look through all of your kills

[plain void]

got araz in vault, is it still good without having prism?

[distant sage]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[autumn sail]

does anyone know the timing to absorb both soaks with cloak on M forge?

[distant sage]

maybe if u have lilly

[wild hornet]

the one time i get a good vault i gotta make a hard decision

[tame terrace]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[lethal glen]

Is shadow dance macro worth using or is it just incase you are a button spammer?

I feel like it stops me from getting my 2nd cast off during opener/burst window

[autumn sail]

is it a sim trap that my sims tell me to not wear an epic gem?

[lilac stag]

likely an error

remove gems from gear in sim, force the 4 colors

[wild hornet]

hey sub chat

atm i have heroic prism and cosmic hunt (im not using lily), with raw sims the araz trinket sims better than prism, but prism sims better if its with antenna
should i go for prism for the longterm?

[autumn sail]

Ok I’ll do that my RL was wondering why I didn’t have one and I ran a bunch of sims and it was telling me it’s a downgrade

[lilac stag]

link the sim

[lilac stag]

you want prism and forge for th elast two ,unless youre running heroic sigil

you can farm lily to go with it

mythic prism is our flat out bis

[wild hornet]

i kinda messed up the sim order

let me redo it rq

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dTXCQivwX8Wy3pws2Upj3p - 5 minute sim with just max GV trinkets
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3dG6p2DNSwgKvo23EGxPUw - same thing as above, just lily (im anticipating dogshit trinket usage from my side w/ lily, but i do have it on heroic)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pSYe8KvrGXJbdJcG11Tvop - 5 minute sim with GV trinkets + added 6/6 antenna

im kinda stuck on what trinket combo i should do

[torn storm]

723 prism

[lilac stag]

Lily prims is fine. You take the prism.

like it shouldn’t even be an afterthought

[torn storm]

you dont pass up the best trinket in the game fr

[lilac stag]

Heroic to mythic is like a 70k dps upgrade

[wild hornet]

i always think of like the possible upgrades in a week or two

after a lucky vault or dinars

[lilac stag]

You’re progging now.

You take the best item in the game for sub

[torn storm]

im on dimmi and i have a 704 prism

[lilac stag]

[torn storm]

and i would trade my left arm for a 723 one ngl

[little scaffold]

704->723 prism was like 96k for me

[inland void]

yo, is sigil of cosmic hunt actually decent for sub? not sure if its sim bait or not

[lucid jackal]

Ya its decent

[torn storm]

decent offtrinket

[inland void]

ye i alrdy got mythtrack netherprism, and got myth sigil in vault and myth lily in vault

id assume just lily ye

cause of dmg amps in raid etc

and in m+ seems better aswell

[wild hornet]

fair enough. After i take the prism and use heroic lily, should i aim for the forge trinket? weve killed frac and about to prog soul hunters

[lilac stag]

I’d take Sigil but that’s me.

[lilac stag]

I like a good passive

[inland void]

this is the difference between em

[shrewd lantern]

We got 0 forges and prisms this week

thankfully i already got prism

[inland void]

ye idk what to pick tbh

guts are saying lily is better cause only heard sigil is good for outlaw

[lilac stag]

It’s very good

[inland void]

in m+ aswell or pure raid?

[scenic plover]

Finally an easy vault

[lilac stag]

Lily is fine, but idk dbl on use is good and fun but don’t underestimate likely the best passive in the game for us since you’re not playing a mini game chasing balls

[shrewd lantern]

sigil is decent for your passive

3k over 723 pace for me

[inland void]

ye true xD

antenna can fuck itself

[inland void]

ye was mainly just thinking with all dmg amps in raid

[lilac stag]

Only better is mythic cursed stone idol

[inland void]

would think that double onuse would be better on paper

[shrewd lantern]

with forge ye

[inland void]

ig lily isnt enough stats for it to be worth?

[lilac stag]

Lily ain’t forge. I’d run Sigil prism over lily prism

Lily is good. Just not forge.

[peak jetty]

!makro

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[fossil forge]

[shrewd lantern]

nice edict

[fossil forge]

lowk ring angle

[shrewd lantern]

i got that a few weeks ago

[haughty rose]

apparently everforged stabber MH (720) + Vengeful Netherspike OH (710) sims better than Prodigious Gene Splice MH (723) + Everforged Stabber OH (720).

is this because OH doesn't use ascendance embellishment as much or is vengeful nether spike 710 better than prodigious gene splicer 723?

[rocky ocean]

Ring is comfy

[plush roost]

Link the sim

[haughty rose]

sec gotta link in to my work real quick before i can go back to procrastinating

[tepid trellis]

taking bets on what it is?

im calling no enchant on the new mainhand

[plush roost]

I was thinking everforged dagger in OH

[wild hornet]

Can someone show me their sims of prism+araz for last 4 bosses? Mine seemed to favor antenna still over 5-7 minutes on 1-3 boss targets

[tepid trellis]

cant really sim the last two, not remotely accurate that is

people just played 2x on-use on them on prog when you needed extreme dmg at certain times, most of that is nerfed now tho (apart from p2 dimmy) so people just sheep followed 2x on-use

hmm dh got it not bad

[haughty rose]

yeah sure i said that it's in OH
and no, i enchanted everything

[wild hornet]

So since I'm gonna be using prism + lily, should I be aiming to get antenna instead of araz, or vice versa

Gonna be progging last 3/4 bosses

I can't tell which trinket combo would be better to go for

[little scaffold]

forge is better than antenna
last 2 especially

[tepid trellis]

would more so say its just on dimmy its better

[wild hornet]

We are gonna be on SH prog from frac, I assume I should still get antenna and maybe get araz with dinars or get lucky with vault

Kinda far from dimmy still

[pearl swan]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

nicu

nice, even tho only mythic item thats good in my vault

the m+ row is rly sad too

[shrewd lantern]

@plush roost meh tried tea in gambit its alright

[wild hornet]

Seems like mplus vaults will be sad forever

With all that raid bis

[shrewd lantern]

Ig big momma neck?

unless you use salad’s

or priory neck

[mint violet]

myth lily or champ prism?

[short radish]

i had a weird bug where my 720 crafted simmed more than a 723 mh

manually add another 720 crafted and another 723

and resim

[clever delta]

I got antena too, but don't think i can replace my normal forge on dimmy anyway

[short radish]

#subtlety message

you can read that if you want @haughty rose

[haughty rose]

yeah it was a bug. now it's 0,6% better which sound more realistic than -0,1% lol

also lily sims better than forge? (compared to 723 Antenna at 50% miss chance)

[fossil forge]

Wanted to ask if myth Lily beats hc forge but ig there is my answer

[limpid sage]

What’s your mastery at

[haughty rose]

unbuffed

[heady knoll]

Is prism hc just better than Lilly myth? My sims say that myth antenna + hc prims beats lily in any slots

[short radish]

[clever cradle]

on nexus king rn, got no forge just playing passive+prism
alchemist stone is simming within 0.2% of my best craft
do i just send it and proc it on the amp is it that simple?

[limpid sage]

ohh you were simming dungeon slice

then it makes sense

[haughty rose]

yes. but together with netherprism

[limpid sage]

ye dungeonslice really likes passive trinkets for some reason

[haughty rose]

lily is not passive tho

i replaced antenna for lily in 1 gearset and for forge in the other gearset. both were run together with netherprism for double on use

[limpid sage]

no I mean trinkets with main stat

[haughty rose]

that antenna at 50% miss chance still sims better than double on use is expected or at least i'm used to it now even tho i dont believe it

but lily 723 siming better than forge is some weird fuckery

[haughty rose]

aaah

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, loom shoulders. My 2/8M pugging adventure continues paying off

[fossil forge]

Yo gang

mythic sigil lowkey goated if i dont have a second mythic trink?

Cant do th,, robot because im not home

[short radish]

i hate sigil

oh wait

sigil not signet

nvm carry on

[vale pine]

sigil isn't bad

its just not antenna

^^

[keen dome]

I think Sigil is bad 😠

That underperforming dweeb of a trinket that has one job to do damage and did less than Prism!

[vale pine]

haha

i used piecemaker so far

now i use antenna

[keen dome]

Ye, Pacemaker is nice cos it's farmable

[vale pine]

vault gods got me happy today

time to curse orb spawns

[keen dome]

I went Sigil -> Pacemaker (both heroic) -> Mythic Antenna

[versed sun]

Mythic Araz in vault

[vale pine]

nice

[fossil forge]

I guess ill just wait for raid and if mythic forge drops i take necromancers

[versed sun]

How does it work with prism though

[fossil forge]

!prism

[vale pine]

waiting for raid is always good ye

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[versed sun]

I meant with the macro or do I now have to un-macro my prism? Or do I just have to make sure I use forge before shadow blades

[fossil forge]

best case scenario would be to bind both

My dh is eating good though bro got 2 slots

[versed sun]

Seperately and ignore a macro? Or do you mean bind both to the marco with forge first as prio?

[fossil forge]

whatever suits you boss

I have both trinkets on my side mouse buttons

[brazen talon]

question mates why is it recomendend to macro tea with shadowdance and not in sec tec ?

[nova cairn]

I don't have forge or prism yet

surely one is in the vault right

LETS FUCKING GO

[keen dome]

Huuuuge

[carmine portal]

Myth pants full HC top row

Not bad

Psure pants are the move bcus i can max upgr right away

[sick jackal]

i am starting nexus king prog tomorrow got a myth antenna + prism should i try to get a hero araz for timers (raid wont be giving me araz myth)

[vale pine]

prism + forge is good during progress

[dry karma]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[limpid sage]

anyone know what tools of the trade secrets does

like what are the enchants you get

[nova cairn]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3GseB4XL92ZvoFQoUgNyqu

[runic trail]

Manifested it

[nova cairn]

Araz just doesn't sim properly?

[nova cairn]

You know it

[sudden tree]

cant you just macro araz and prism together

and have prism lower than Araz

They it will use Araz first

[nova cairn]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[sudden tree]

Yee

[round patrol]

Hey, just back in the Game after missing all the expac up to this point. Anyone knows why most guides drop cold blood in m+ but most top players use It according to r.io?

[fossil forge]

Personal preference

[fathom adder]

can someone explain antenna to me ? i heard you can fuk it up, but the orb seems to follow you (?). Do you do anything to game it or just let it do its thing passively

[fossil forge]

Tea does more aoe cb does more st

[round patrol]

Okay, thanks

[sick jackal]

would it be worth to swap a myth antenna with a hero araz tho should have phrased the question better

[bright solstice]

prism + antenna or prism + forge?

is also the question I have

[magic ruin]

How much is the sim minmaxing the Astral antenna orbs? You could gain dps by delaying picking up orbs so it overlaps better with cooldowns, but in a raid fight this is sometimes unrealistic?

[vale kernel]

I have hero antenna and hero lily, so I guess the nobrainer here is netherprism?

[karmic harbor]

no forge... fml

[mystic bough]

Most of the time it'll just passively float to you, but you have to kind of pay attention to it as sometimes you can miss it if you have to move a lot.

[fathom adder]

thank you. Do you use a weakaura for it? or just look

[fossil forge]

I feel u gang

[modest spear]

Probably the hands right for the 4 set? I do kinda wanna take the lily and use a catalyst too

[mystic bough]

I just look, the only WA I have for it is just to see if it is active or not

[fossil forge]

Definitely take Lily if you can get 4set somewhere else

https://tenor.com/view/sim-simulate-gif-8199108223823847654

[modest spear]

Yeah I have one catalyst just got it, problem is my head is champ and hands are veteran

[fossil forge]

You can farm those u cant farm a mythic trinket

Myth weapon still better no

Actually

[modest spear]

idk, what do u use to sim actually just patchwerk 1 target or?

[kind wasp]

Is there something I'm missing regarding first boss in Eco? Do you need to put puddles in a specific place or?

some tank just screamed at me, and I just put the puddle just outside of melee range, don't really see an issue

[wet echo]

you need to put them either north, south, west or east of the boss

cuz that's where adds spawn in intermission

if there is no puddle, you need other slows so adds don't get eaten and heal the boss and he gets buffed

just outside of melee is fine, but in those directions

[sterile nacelle]

how can I have myth antenna in chest when we have only killed plexus and soulbinder on mythic so far ?

[wet echo]

of course the netherprism is in the fuckin heroic slot 💤

[wet echo]

because blizzard's order of bosses is plexus-loom-soulbinder

and if you kill a boss ahead, it gives loot for all previous

[sterile nacelle]

Oh i see thanks

[wet echo]

it's also why killing frac after araz is very good, gives soul hunters loot

[jade needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nHZEw2GLLtn77EH97x6J9i

Could someone please help me chose?

[wet echo]

you want the netherprism no matter what

[jade needle]

would you try to drop it in raid first to sneak the shoulder for myth upgrade?

[sudden tree]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/s1KmQpGuup5QFgeVWsGvoc decent gear. i still do 0 dam #skillissue

[wet echo]

nah

it's better for the guild that i get hc and someone else gets mythic

i'll get it with dinars or whatever when those are available

[jade needle]

I am asking since those shoulders are BIS, ( i know prism is also, i just have it in champ)

[severe prism]

If i'm playing prism + forge, and for some reason i'm not sending on cd, at how many stacks prism>forge to use when both are available ?

[jade needle]

and id lose haste in progress

[vale pine]

antenna is more consistent damage over the entire fight, but forge + prism give you damage at the times you want it during progress

on adds and on the damage amp phases

[twin trench]

You think myth prism + myth lily or myth prism + H forge?

[vale kernel]

Do we send netherprism with first cds or does that just delay stack gaining and give no benefit anyway? (I just got it)

[fossil forge]

Mythic Lily outsims hc forge i think

[carmine portal]

Pmuch every combo I try Lily is substantially lower than my HC forge and Champ Prism

[fossil forge]

Prism is 100%bis no matter what ilvl

[twin trench]

should i trust sims then?

felt like forge under simmed

[carmine portal]

I'm weird but I'm loving double on use

Feels rlly nice

[candid mural]

also wondering about that^^ can we just macro it to shadow baldes?

[fossil forge]

Always trust the clanker

Double on use isnt mandatory

[jade needle]

whats the passive one we use then?

[fossil forge]

Antenna

I run prism antenna in m+ and araz prism in raid

[karmic harbor]

my myth lily outsims hc forge

[fossil forge]

@karmic harbor twin wad we thinking

Im definitely waiting till after raid

Though

[karmic harbor]

what do you have rn

[fossil forge]

I have myth prism hc forge and hc antenna

Ring would be mythic upgrade

Antenna too

Lily is definitely a option if the forge doesnt drop though

[twin trench]

i have myth prism/ antenna and then myth lily, but kinda wondering if sims are off about having hc forge

[fossil forge]

Here is th,, gear

[karmic harbor]

i think m antenna is better than m lily

[twin trench]

really?

well i know in general but even on like

king and dimmy