Dark brew builder haste build
#subtlety
hexed sluice
frail ledge
for how much vers should i aim?
graceful osprey
What if, finishers are significantly buffed and mastery scaling gets reduced?
sullen hare
we would still be making memes about black powder buffs
elder isle
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
north schooner
warning signs is named like that because you clicked on the wrong talent
how about they introduce a hidden gcd reduction while in shadow dance which is based on your haste 
swift tinsel
or haste gives double value to auto attack swing timer
or scaling to snd
more sht
then remove the AA part of skyfury for sub like it is for ret
sullen hare
if we could get a talent that gives us the same auto attack buff that skyfury does I'd be happy
swift tinsel
thrash blade as a talent
lucid jackal
What if, finishers are significantly buffed and mastery scaling gets reduced?
Why would u want this?
swift tinsel
honestly I'm personally fine getting solid value from 3 out of 4 secondaries
keen dome
Almost everything is good in some way, it's great
swift tinsel
and the whole 'not being tied to lust' part is awesome
with our given haste relationship
wouldn't be mad if the added some kind of haste thing for us but I'm fine if they don't
hazy breach
Good thing they made "amps" this season be damage taken increases rather than more haste 
keen dome
big fan of more damage done
fossil imp
when running first dance, should i try to send 2nd sec tec (with cb) during the first dance (with new symbols)?
swift tinsel
yeah haste buffs in raid from mechanics are doodoo and need to stay away
looking at you sark
hazy breach
when running first dance, should i try to send 2nd sec tec (with cb) during the ...
You send sectech whenever its ready
(and you supercharge it)
Theres no "you must hit it at this exact moment or youll do zero damage", its just
Press it whenever its ready
fossil imp
yeah but what i meant is should i try to fit it during the first dance
fossil imp
thx
earnest jetty
nws have fun blasting
fossil imp
cause i feel like its kinda inconsistent, rng dependant and i might be hitting it just when dance expires
i hate first dance lol
stoic pier
What non-lethal poisons should i be running on 13+ keystones? Atrophic or Numbing?
earnest jetty
first dance is great when you use it imo
sucks trying to get it up sometimes
you probably are missing autos or wasting a gcd during it
lucid jackal
Most ppl default to atro but crippling has value if Ur comp doesn't have big slows for gambit and halls
earnest jetty
should be getting 2 sec tech in first dance
lucid jackal
With all the mobs that run around
surreal crypt
hey so in ur cooldowns you gotta press shuriken storm after the first coup cast , but do we do that even when you get full combopoints back after the first coup?
earnest jetty
no
swift tinsel
nope
stoic pier
Most ppl default to atro but crippling has value if Ur comp doesn't have big slo...
Crippling? For slow mv speed?
swift tinsel
only if you need cp
earnest jetty
its specifically to avoid wasting your hidden blade proc
or w/e its calle
if you can evis-evis with max cp to eat coup you do that everytime
surreal crypt
alright tnx guys
lucid jackal
Crippling? For slow mv speed?
Ua
Ya*
Mobs murlocs in gambit run away when low hp, same with halls
U can swap poisons mid run so might as well run them if Ur comp has no slows for when its iseful
Same way u swap to wound poison for miniboss before last boss in halls
signal plume
Question for one of yall
lilac pendant
Im so bad at the demon hunters :(
signal plume
When I sim myself, I have 2 necks, one that’s heavy vers and crit, the other is heavy mas and vers, it tells me to put the crit vers neck on and when I do it makes vers my main stat….
mental shore
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
brave moth
Do I have to run around and collect the orbs from Antena or I will be ait if I just wait them to reach me? In CD windows I think I would have to run around and catch them
graceful osprey
Why would u want this?
Just a thought
lucid jackal
When I sim myself, I have 2 necks, one that’s heavy vers and crit, the other is ...
What's the question
mortal mango
do i ever use secret outside of cds and outside of shadow dance?
glass cape
golly this spec does alot of damahe within its cds...
outside of my cds i feel like im just helping
north schooner
do i ever use secret outside of cds and outside of shadow dance?
you can (with symbols or not) if it will still be ready for your next dance. The gain is very minor though and costly if it delays your next dance
signal plume
What's the question
I guess the question was why would it have me swap necks out and make my highest stat vers when mastery isn’t capped yet
north schooner
because stats other than mastery also do damage
lucid jackal
Because there aren't binary stat caps like you are describing
As u get more stats, other stats gain value
north schooner
sometimes having a balance between stats is better than having just 1 stat
tulip gorge
if you want to take shuriken tornado, what would you sacrifice for it?
replicating shadows?
hazy breach
Or veiltouched
tulip gorge
5% increased magic damage is a big sacrifice, isn't it
ancient kraken
maybe dumb question but do we use black powder in shadow dance? doesnt feel right with nimble furry or am i wrong
or at what cound do it use black powder over evis?
tulip gorge
we use black powder at +4 targets
ancient kraken
aye thanks, ill just follow wowhead 🙂 last season that number was way higher
dusk stone
aye thanks, ill just follow wowhead 🙂 last season that number was way higher
Bp got buffed significantly
gleaming plank
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
maybe dumb question but do we use black powder in shadow dance? doesnt feel righ...
black powder got buffed this season
thats why
!up
wicked joltBOT
hazy breach
!prism
clever delta
cos lily is just slighlty worse in sims than forge for 5min
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
clever delta
oh so there is "new" tech
vale pine
lilly is not terrible ye
clever delta
im kinda unlucky with forge
still sitting on normal on i get from TWW cache oan first week 😄
meanwhile we looted like 5 antenas or more
but cant roll on them
oblique burrow
Hi, when should we use araz and prism? Got prism and antenna and i tried simming, it says araz is less good than antenna
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
oblique burrow
Then why does it sims lower than prism antenna on raidbots ?
In ST(didnt test dungeon slice)
vale pine
because its worse on a patchwerk fight
the upside of it is in dungeons or specific boss fights
the ability to align these bigger stat budget to add spawns or damaeg events
or big pulls
antenna or similar all end up main stat trinket too
which give you more static damage always
trinkets with main stat have more power put into the main stat than the proc effects
dusk stone
Then why does it sims lower than prism antenna on raidbots ?
fake hype
runic hull
anyone using build with nado? I find it easier to fit the second teq inside of the 1st dance with it, any tips without nado?
lilac stag
You’re not using tornado during dance.
fast iron
hi guys ^^ wowhead suggests we play 1 on use and 1 passive, but my friend says sub rogues NEED 2 on use trinkets
is that correct?
little scaffold
iirc antenna also sims with no misses unless you change the settings for it
runic hull
You’re not using tornado during dance.
I am, trying to figure out tho without the build with nado how to consiostently fit 2 teq in 1 dance
lilac stag
I am, trying to figure out tho without the build with nado how to consiostently ...
You’re playing it wrong then.
runic hull
how am I supposed to use it?
lilac stag
For CDR to spread rupture or BP outside of CDs
Only time we cast Storm in dance is as a building between coups
Our “aoe” is still using strike in dance.
runic hull
nado not storm
runic hull
anyone using build with nado? I find it easier to fit the second teq inside of t...
any tips @vale pine ?
north schooner
brother you don't use nado during your blades, how does it help you with your 2nd sectec?
runic hull
because it casts every sec
instead of every 1.5
Ive seen casual use it in burst window and was wondering any other tips using it, or tips without it to fit both secteqs in 1 dance
north schooner
rogue gcd is 1s not 1.5s, what's that 1.5?
lilac stag
nado not storm
Nado just casts storm mate. Same thing applies.
runic hull
ah ok, not sure why he was using it in burst window then
but said it was easier for him to fit sec teq
tried it and also noticed the same thing maybe just placebo effect
but was curious about it
lilac stag
Nado is storm storm storm. so he’s getting slightly quicker CDR, but less dps. 
runic hull
Nado is storm storm storm. so he’s getting slightly quicker CDR, but less dps. <...
but if its a bit faster isint it easier to get the second teq out?
north schooner
it can be that it you get more cdr out of it, but that's not the only factor. You lose a lot of damage by not having shadowstrikes because that also affects UB and coup procs
your dance window isn't just for sectec
lilac stag
It doesn’t matter for what you’re giving up. You’re getting no UB from it.
runic hull
your dance window isn't just for sectec
yes I know that but whats a consistent way of getting both techs in 1st dance?
final gulch
how do i make a thread for a log review? trying to get better at sub, i feel like im missing something
north schooner
use !log
lilac stag
You want 2 sectechs in TFD you have to typically do prepull bullshit or have good rng.
!prepull
wicked joltBOT
Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.
- Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended- Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully. - Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than1% damagegain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.
lilac stag
You’re casting your second Sectech right at the end of dance and following it up immediately with another dance.
runic hull
ok so sec teq is like inbetween lets say
north schooner
it can fit entirely within the 1st dance with TFD but it depends on rng
runic hull
it can fit entirely within the 1st dance with TFD but it depends on rng
ok so it is rng on the combo point proc right?
lilac stag
ok so sec teq is like inbetween lets say
No. Your cast goes off usually on last global of TFD dance. The dance immediately after buffs the additional hits.
shrewd lantern
rng is unseen blade
north schooner
ok so it is rng on the combo point proc right?
that and UB procs, coup is good cdr
lilac stag
and by using nado in dance you’re missing out on UB and that what you want for cb Sectech
runic hull
ok I see
lilac stag
Hopefully it makes sense. I’m exhausted
runic hull
I was wondering the rng things but wasnt entirely sure
north schooner
also this isn't something important. It's ok if your 2nd sectec is in the second dance
lilac stag
Not sure text is clear
shrewd lantern
biggest rng is just unseen blade
runic hull
Im finding tea build to be more managable then CB
shrewd lantern
If you spam sure
fast iron
hi guys ^^ wowhead suggests we play 1 on use and 1 passive, but my friend says sub rogues NEED 2 on use trinkets
is that correct?
shrewd lantern
Not a hard need
north schooner
both are viable
shrewd lantern
the two on use combination is forge and prism
fast iron
he was like "any good sub will play double on use and stuff like antenna is giga troll"
shrewd lantern
nothing else really is nearly as effective
fast iron
i mean i have lily + a 691 delve trinket (The one that gives vers and looks like a necklace)
im not really geared or anything yet
north schooner
if you don't have prism + forge then stick to 1 passive imo
shrewd lantern
^
runic hull
is CB build better used with rotten or without?
shrewd lantern
Either works
lilac stag
Rotten isn’t really needed
runic hull
its very easy to spread FW with rotten tho in aoe
whats the other efficient way of spreadding it without rotten?
lilac stag
at 710+ we spread FW quite easily without it
runic hull
ok, and do you find the point in finality to be overall more woth it then?
shrewd lantern
I’ve played both and can barely tell a diff
one gives a bit more oomf to shadowstrikes one gives more to finishers
north schooner
it's a preference thing
shrewd lantern
lil oopsie when i do a sub 12 key
and smack the cc orbs for like 70m
with nimble
short radish
We call those happy little accidents
shrewd lantern
or the second boss of db’s add spawn instant gets removed by an 18 stack prism cb sectech
trail epoch
!dance
mighty citrus
@tepid trellis gz for kill, very nice! 2 questions to your video. what does this sd WA tell you? it should not be the buff, correct? aaaand what is the grey line below your green crosshair?
like latest point when you get to 2 stacks so you dont sit on it?
twin quartz
He probably just mapped out his cooldown usage and put it in a reminder so it was repeatable
mighty citrus
no its just hdr screenshotbugs
wicked joltBOT
placid elk
!wa
wicked joltBOT
acoustic lodge
ty ty
tepid trellis
<@83652604344664064> gz for kill, very nice! 2 questions to your video. what doe...
just a reminder for when to use certain cds, the grey bar is just a health bar
mighty citrus
thanks!
violet palm
!log
surreal cedar
I have a strange thought. Do we even truly need thistle tea bound to a key? I can’t remember the last time I actually pressed it. I have it macro’d into shadow dance & it also auto hits if our energy is low.. I can’t imagine any other time I’d press it?
placid elk
you can but i cba. macro to dance with 5s reset time so you dont spam it and g2g
surreal cedar
Cba??
placid elk
"can't be arsed" to do it
vocal haven
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
rigid remnant
saw people using "The Rotten" in M+, does it change the rotation in any form or is jsut passive?
lilac stag
no its just hdr screenshotbugs
You can turn hdr off per app, in this case sniping tool. just an fyi.
lilac stag
saw people using "The Rotten" in M+, does it change the rotation in any form or ...
SoD + Storm before dance.
It’s likely worse over finality if you have decent enough gear.
Pretty sure what was concluded as optimal. I rather s play finality. We spread FW so easily with Storm on its own
rigid remnant
could u explain to me why storm before dance then? im fairly new on rogue
lilac stag
We only cast Storm in dance as a builder between coups
rigid remnant
ye but why we want to cast storm with rotten?
mighty citrus
You can turn hdr off per app, in this case sniping tool. just an fyi.
Need to check, ty!
summer vale
ye but why we want to cast storm with rotten?
to spread find weakness
lilac stag
!guide
rigid remnant
and u say, its worse wiht better gear. i just followed murlok the last week and the rotten got highe rin numbers in that time
lilac stag
Those sites are trash
rigid remnant
obviously i already looked into guides.
lilac stag
There’s a lot of “feels” in m+ play
summer vale
Those sites are trash
all 3 linked guides play rotten as well though
rigid remnant
acronyms are bit touhg sometimes, and to be fair, find weaknes isnt a big talking poitn in any of the guide rotation pages
summer vale
i think it's mostly preference, might depend a bit on dungeon as well
lilac stag
all 3 linked guides play rotten as well though
The suggested builds are just that, none have been updated with the recent changes. They likely will once apl gets pushed
It’s not dungeon dependent. It’s off early season info that was explored, and new approaches were found. You’re fine playing either one.
karmic harbor
I have a strange thought. Do we even truly need thistle tea bound to a key? I ...
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
lilac stag
Top end key pushers are fucking up dbl on use trinkets, yet still swear by them. It be what it be. Don’t blindly follow them.
summer vale
so you take out rotten + 1 symbols for 2 in finality then?
lilac stag
No just 1 finality
summer vale
ok. was just about to say, losing a symbols charge is gonna feel super weird
wheat sentinel
Isn't rotten good for mass pulls or still nah
fast iron
what trinket should itry to farm from m+
lilac stag
Isn't rotten good for mass pulls or still nah
Scroll up and it’s answered
wheat sentinel
I see
void ocean
<@83652604344664064> gz for kill, very nice! 2 questions to your video. what doe...
i have no idea what died in this ss
rigid remnant
before i ask too many things about it, is the up to date and correct? it seems to differ from the other guides
tepid trellis
the storm isnt meant to be there, thats on me
rigid remnant
why the eviscerate first? the other guide go straight into ruptures
thick temple
i have played s3 yet but why is flag so late
omg what i forget how to play sub if i skip a season of wow
rigid remnant
right now im jsut hitting the dummies and i obviously dont have any good grasp on it but doesnt shadowstriking on 4+ targets isntead of shuriken storm without shadowblades "feel" really bad? to use 2+ builder so i get less finisher into my dance?
tepid trellis
unfortunately Storm does 0 dmg and doesent interact with our hero talent
so during dance its always shadowstrike
rigid remnant
since i hav eu here, i guess this line is from deathstalker?
its under "general playstyle"
tepid trellis
yeh it was something DS used to do
but DS is dead af, so could prolly just remove it
rigid remnant
i mean u already say its probably not worth doing but jsut i udnerstadn it correct. i use 1 backstab jsut for 1 stacsk flawless form so 3% dmg?
north schooner
right now im jsut hitting the dummies and i obviously dont have any good grasp o...
shadowstrike is used not only for combo point generation but also because it procs unseen blade (and it flurries too)
tepid trellis
inside of dance you backstab as first builder (can skip if high target count)
or its something you can do while out of dance below 4 targets to try and get flawless form running for evis cleave
rigid remnant
i get the feeling sub isnt the specc for a bit of casual twink keys 😄
tepid trellis
it has a high floor
rigid remnant
or maybe im just old and washed
tepid trellis
but also alot of the "minmaxes" are all just a bunch of 0,5% things
generally speaking as long as you do dances correct
you are like 85% of the way there
rigid remnant
does holding coup and sitting on combopoints for shadwotechnique count towards correct dances?
rigid remnant
all the buffs like fazed, and flawless form etc. feel complicated but i guess most if it works passively when im playing correct right?
tepid trellis
also holding coup is mostly for single target
tepid trellis
all the buffs like fazed, and flawless form etc. feel complicated but i guess mo...
yes its all passive
rigid remnant
do i need i unseen blade cooldown wa? my package (luxthos) does not have it
tepid trellis
nope
rigid remnant
appreciate the help btw. while im certainly not highlevel, i played s2 on 3750 and enjoy theorycrafting. but i tend to ask questions before playing 😄
shut burrow
hey guys im swapping specs around a lot this season, and just trying sub out in M+ a bit, and i was curious if there's an optimal way to use the rotten in aoe? like the rotational difference, if there is one?
tepid trellis
hey guys im swapping specs around a lot this season, and just trying sub out in ...
not really, only thing you can really do with it would be something like this
SoD+storm->dance+sectech
shut burrow
ah yeah and then just let backstab be your next generator i reckon
tepid trellis
but its largely w/e really
tepid trellis
ah yeah and then just let backstab be your next generator i reckon
yeh, just important to not use the storm inside of dance
rigid remnant
do i cold blood between major cd's? its hardly aligns with dance/secrettech to have it up in time for next cooldowns or is it me doing something wrong?
shut burrow
ye i literally never press CB except for the second cd sectec and my dmg in raid is v good
rigid remnant
the shuriken storm between coup, is it only in shadow blades or every dance? guides say different thingsi think
tepid trellis
shadowblades or with 4 targets or more
shut burrow
but ONLY that one time between coups is the big thing
never more than once during dance
rigid remnant
follwoing this i do it, in blades, but not in solo dance, but again outside of dance?
nvm
read it wrong its late
karmic harbor
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
rigid remnant
"them"=major cooldowns
but it stil suggest u do it outside wiht tierset
which contradicts ur answer^^
hushed roost
Whats this antenna miss% mean and whats a realistic% in mythic raid
lucid jackal
15-20%
tepid trellis
follwoing this i do it, in blades, but not in solo dance, but again outside of d...
its in the single target section and there you only do it during blades
north schooner
you can check in your logs what missrate you have and use that, if you already have the trinket
rigid remnant
its in the single target section and there you only do it during blades
ye i get it now. its too late and i think the sentences is a bit convoluted in my opinion.
sry if its nitpicky. as i said i really appreciate ur time and answers. will go to bed now. good night
tepid trellis
ye i get it now. its too late and i think the sentences is a bit convoluted in m...
nah thats valid, ill freshen it up to be easier understood
scenic yarrow
I have a dumb nerd question why cant I find bloodmallet sims for weapon enhancements and do we have any sims to see the % increase for enhancements, is bubbling wax still on par
lucid jackal
because most ppl don't default to chasing around orbs the entire game
And also, some fights dont let u easily chase around orbs
karmic harbor
On mythic you send on cd
dense swallow
i was doing heroic
karmic harbor
Depends on your group
https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/plexus-sentinel?difficulty=heroic can check what other people do
manic salmon
i have 400 gold right now
woven ruin
manic salmon
gambling
karmic harbor
i have 400 gold right now
Time to swipe your card
woeful wren
Is bubbling wax not on raidbots/
willow mantle
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
sturdy delta
!wa
wicked joltBOT
dense swallow
does coup de grace need to be used with 6+ combo points or can it be used with 2 or more since it acts as if it had more
i didnt know if 13 combo point damage was a real thing or its just capped
lilac pendant
!wa
wicked joltBOT
dense swallow
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
hazy breach
does coup de grace need to be used with 6+ combo points or can it be used with 2...
The more the merrier, but using it on lower is fine if youre in a pinch
dense swallow
alright ty
hazy breach
Like the 4p only lasts a few seconds so if you dont get to full cp
Thats fine
Just send at lower cp
Even if you send at 1 cp its still effectively a 6 cp finisher
dense swallow
makes sense thats what i assumed
hazy breach
Likewise if you supercharge it and have 7 combo points when you cast coup it would count as 7+3+5=15 combo points spent
dense swallow
oh ok so more than 7 points does exist
hazy breach
Yes
dense swallow
thats where the big dps comes from
lilac pendant
on opener where does each symbols go?
dense swallow
one to rupture and one to sec tec
hazy breach
Always supercharge sectech
lilac pendant
thats why sectech goes early on dance?
hazy breach
No, thats because of trickster'
A lot of the power of sectech is in disorienting strikes
lilac pendant
and when entering dance with grace do i use it before Sextech?
vast tusk
what's the passive that sometimes regenerates full combo points after a finisher?
vagrant sigil
shadowcraft
vast tusk
I never understood that one. What does it mean when it says "Shadow Techniques triggers 40% more frequently" and "Stores 1 additional combo point"?
fleet wharf
so does it make it go from 28 -> 40 or 28-> 68?
vast tusk
ohh that makes sense. I got it mixed up with Secret Techniques
hazy breach
so does it make it go from 28 -> 40 or 28-> 68?
Kind of the first one
Although 28% is not technically not wrong, its not just 28% chance for it to happen on every auto.
First auto has 0% proc chance, Second has 0% proc chance, third has 50% proc chance and fourth has 100% proc chance
Which averages out to 28% chance
With shadowcraft specced and symbols up its instead First 0%, second 50%, third 100%
Which averages to roughly 40% more
Nothing to do really do with this info, but hey, now you know
fossil frost
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
little epoch
my friend crafted INT dagger, is it possible to open a ticket for that to be reverted?
tepid trellis
Unlikely
little epoch
sadge
lilac stag
3rd one asked about in here in 12 hours. 
short radish
did mage get nerf'd or something
lilac stag
They’re all trying to convert their mage daggers to stabbers?
solar thicket
Do I need to use the active on cd always, no matter charges?
tepid trellis
!prism
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
solar thicket
Im using it with pacemaker, so should I hold it till I get close stacks to 18?
lone halo
How many ruptures should we try to spread as mobs get rounded up on big pulls
tepid trellis
As many as you Can
solar thicket
As many as you Can
holding up cds for it?
tepid trellis
holding up cds for it?
No
fiery rampart
too bad i hate double on use
tepid trellis
Spread til its gathered
lucid jackal
too bad i hate double on use
Use 13 use 14 shadow blades
quiet smelt
why does it feel like i do less damage getting ruptures up before i open with big cds vs when i just shadowstrike in and pop em ?
fiery rampart
im at 2966
lucid jackal
why does it feel like i do less damage getting ruptures up before i open with bi...
Probably because you aren't comparing like to like in terms of like, a handful of variables
Mainly stuff like prism/actual pull count
rupturing should only be done while grouping or between Cds tho
U shouldnt delay Cds to rupture
quiet smelt
ok because i see in opener they have you fok + rupter during flag
but thought setting up ruptures before popping cds would be good since they all get buffed?
lucid jackal
It is but if you were to spread ruptures every time before Cds, you'd probably miss 3+ flags a dungeon yk
Like ur opener should still be strike flag rupture
But u shouldnt be spamming ruptures after flag
quiet smelt
gotcha
glass cape
But what if rupture is fun?
lethal glen
Is there a thread to ask for help/coaching? Having issues with dps and want some help figuring it out
quiet smelt
like priory for example first pull... you wait for group then normal opener in ? or are you spreading ruptures as its all grouping then popping cds
lucid jackal
Just tricks the tank, and start rupturing shit
When they are all grouped, use all CDs
quiet smelt
right i feel like i do less dmg that way
then just waiting for group and popping everything
thats where im confused
tepid trellis
You are in combat for longer so dps might be lower but overall dmg to the pack should be higher
slate lantern
Is there a thread to ask for help/coaching? Having issues with dps and want some...
You can post a log with the !log command but no guarantees someone will look at it
lethal glen
Good enough for me! Thanks
wispy crystal
Guys I'm trying to impress my raid leader tonight for mythic raid trials.
We are doing Loomithar, Soul Hunters and Fractillus heroic.
Should I stick with sub for all 3 fights, or switch to assas to look better on the DPS meters?
wispy crystal
probs sin for frac and loom
Ty sir. And gearwise sin can pretty much use same gear as Sub right ?
Mix of Vers/Mast and some crit
wispy crystal
Sin isn't picky like sub is
Ty good sir. Appreciate the help!
I'll do assas for
Loom - assas
Soulhunter - sub
Fractillus - assas
For Mythic plexus, assas is also more superior to sub right? Pure ST fight
wispy crystal
only thing assa really wants is crit
I see. Can still use sub gear right?
Unless really wanna min max then recraft everything to crit mastery?
tepid trellis
yeh it will be fine, but also Assa and sub isnt different in terms of output on single target
so you could just rock sub all the way
its HC anyway right so shit will die fast af
lilac stag
until you have 15 friends and family in 680 gear
tepid trellis
thats gonna be our mythic alt run tonight
ong
i sneaked ryler into it as well, time to int
show him the raccoon special
tepid trellis
Havoc
lilac stag
Zoom zoom
tepid trellis
712 havoc about to pull up and do z dps
wispy crystal
yeh it will be fine, but also Assa and sub isnt different in terms of output on ...
Oh I keep thinking assas is superior on ST. Especially on Loomithar 33% increase damage and assas has execute
tepid trellis
Oh I keep thinking assas is superior on ST. Especially on Loomithar 33% increase...
boss dies so fast it doesent really make a difference
lilac stag
Assa execute can help it pull away in mythic. Heroic it won’t matter
I almost wonder if 2 min sub is better for some of the heroic timers
tepid trellis
was gonna check my logs from hc but ive been removed from the logs since guild split
unlucko
lilac stag
Damn
sand patio
can I equip two 720 crafted daggers? (2x everforged stabber)?
lilac stag
Yes
But don’t
Craft just about anything else besides an offhand weapon
They’re rather irrelevant
sand patio
k ty
lilac stag
Wrists, Ring, Neck & Shoulders are typically good crafts depending on what you have / need
it’s a sim it angle
toxic swan
can we only equip 2 craftes pieces? I can't remember if the limit was on crafted pieces or just embellishments
elder isle
can we only equip 2 craftes pieces? I can't remember if the limit was on crafted...
only 2 embellishments but as many crafted items as you want
toxic swan
nice thanks!
neat surge
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
tepid trellis
Damn
it is what it is, guess he was mad, but think i will just have the people that actually logged the fights upload them again
neat surge
is there a macro so you dont send two SOD by accident?
short radish
is there a macro so you dont send two SOD by accident?
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
willow mantle
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
tribal blade
it is what it is, guess he was mad, but think i will just have the people that a...
that seems petty af
late oxide
!wa
wicked joltBOT
wispy crystal
For dimensius do we wanna flag the add, kill it asap. So we get max flag stacks right away?
Or flag on dimensius and cleave the add?
keen dome
They should make Sub more purple.
mint violet
hey, just took a random top log to check, how is it possible to have nimble flurry do so much dps compared to everything else?
like this red in the middle is nimble flurry
and black powder is at the top
vapid lodge
Do you guys have any tips on what to look for when analysing logs?
I'm trying to improve my gameplay and compare myself to better rogues as my damage is a lot lower then other rogues in my bracket.
All CDs seem to be lined up pretty similiarly but their SecTecs and Coups hit a lot harder than mine
viral patrol
@tepid trellis can help you all
oblique burrow
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
wispy crystal
Or flag on dimensius and cleave the add?
Anyone have advice for using Flagellation on dimensius or on the add?
wispy crow
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
warm marlin
Anyone have advice for using Flagellation on dimensius or on the add?
It barely makes a difference but why flag add over Dimensius
wispy crystal
It barely makes a difference but why flag add over Dimensius
got it ill flag dimensius instead of the add
cause i heard if you flag the add, and add dies = you get full mastery stacks right away
tepid trellis
you have full stacks a good chunk before it dies
mint violet
and black powder is at the top
also if my nimble flurry in a pack is low it is probably due to positioning?
warm marlin
hey, just took a random top log to check, how is it possible to have nimble flur...
Skip black powdering and press eviscerate instead despite there being more than 4 targets
Decent aoe loss very slight prio gain
mint violet
but he also has negligent evisc damage there
800k
and 1M bp
howver nimbleflurry 8M
well i guess there is also secret technique, and also a lot of targets
limpid sage
but he also has negligent evisc damage there
Coup dmg as well
cursive oar
rogue META soon
ornate lake
Doing keys on raid talents as assa - I must commit soduku💀
Doing keys on raid talents as sub - We balling this 2 chest
warm marlin
PE build kinda goated if things are dying too fast for rupture anyway
vale pine
rogue META soon
you sure?
cursive oar
pretty sure
drifting canopy
vale pine
i have no idea what i look at
mint violet
Coup dmg as well
+, it actually does kinda add up
cursive oar
If you're not doing high keys and are only planning to do all +16 . a substitute can completely replace a DK. In fact, I dare say that so far, I haven't encountered any DK in the meetingstone who deals more DMG than I do.
SUB not substitute...
twin quartz
Grip is so good in getting caster pulls together
tulip gorge
utility diff
funny how every season the specs with the highest damage somehow also have insane utility
vale pine
we talk about raid or m+?
drifting canopy
m+
vale pine
grip def. is rl good in both this season
cursive oar
If Rogue have no utility in M+ and raids, and now they lack damage, then this class should be removed—there's no reason for it to exist at all.
summer quartz
vale pine
we do bring some utility
north schooner
you can pick locks and open doors to bosses without the keys, and unlock chests for your friends 
keen dome
You also glow purple and this is good utility
tulip gorge
hey you give movement speed with shroud
north schooner
glowing purple is the best utility it is at least +5% group buff
narrow shadow
Rogue has some utility but few things compare to grip
tulip gorge
it's funny how all of a sudden grips are an amazing utility
tulip gorge
in dragonflight and shadowlands you had the exact same kit
narrow shadow
in dragonflight and shadowlands you had the exact same kit
Yes but the dungeon pool changes
tulip gorge
and the complaints were about the lack of utility
but somehow when DK is tuned very well
it has insane utility
if rogue was tuned super high reddit would parrot the exact same line
about rogue "utility" making it meta
warm marlin
in dragonflight and shadowlands you had the exact same kit
In dragonflight and SL stops interrupted casts
sick hazel
!guide
tulip gorge
In dragonflight and SL stops interrupted casts
you still had annoying casters that needed grips
warm marlin
Ya but a lot more of them you could just rip some shitty stop and then they walk in
Now u gotta kick them often twice
Because kick lockout is also shorter
Pvp change that wouldn’t affect pve btw
tulip gorge
I'm waiting for the day warrior is tuned high and reddit praises it's utility
oh wait, they actually do with prot warrior 
warm marlin
Bshout kinda crazy in melee meta
shadow lance
AoE silence, What else?
tulip gorge
short cd on aoe stun
shadow lance
45 sec?
tulip gorge
more like 25
warm marlin
I think most classes have a sub 30s aoe stop of some sort
warm marlin
rogue is uniquely awful in that regard
noble shale
Is it ok to send naked st in keys? or is it almost always worth waiting the extra litte bit to get it under sd?
short radish
Tstorm/cap on shaman, gravity lapse/blast wave on mage
yeah because mages really needed an aoe stun
warm marlin
yep
shadow lance
Damn, our comp suck I realize
short radish
which is only a minor positional disrupt
warm marlin
to be fair all they had before was just blast wave
well db
warm marlin
I did hardmode on my mage today and doing dragon boss is legit a joke
lofty cave
This a timed 13 priory how this look 👀
warm marlin
You have infinite utility
short radish
This a timed 13 priory how this look 👀
looks timed so thats good
warm marlin
The virgin kidney shot + blind vs 2x frost nova, cone (80% 5s slow btw), ring of frost, mass poly, blast wave, grav lapse
short radish
ahhh but you see rogues can have aoe slow on demand
by just talenting into night terrors
warm marlin
short radish
50% vs 80%
holy shit
actually just delete us from the game
rip the bandaid off
warm marlin
Arcane’s barrier nearly gives as much dr as aoe feint while also being a 4mil shield btw
tulip gorge
wait you can increase your movement speed with shuriken storm???
warm marlin
And you can give to entire group
short radish
wait you can increase your movement speed with shuriken storm???
yeah it's the hidden technique that high key pushers hide from you
short radish
I knew about Night Terrors
you get them as well?
tulip gorge
no I sleep quite peacefully
tulip gorge
that talent will make running old raids so much better 
noble shale
in keys during shadow dance do you mainly use shuriken if there's a heap of mobs or stick with shadowstrike for coupe procs
bit confused about the whole aoe situation during dance
can pull around 7m overall but that seems a bit low for sub?
noble shale
cool thought so just wanted to make sure
shadow lance
Shuriken between 2 coup proc
noble shale
probably just my general lining up buffs which is holding me back
shadow lance
You got prism?
shadow lance
Correct
short radish
!aoe
wicked joltBOT
General Gist of the Aoe rotation
- At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
- At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
- Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
short radish
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
shadow lance
Yes
noble shale
only just noticed i cant proc em togther
shadow lance
You use forge on first cd set
noble shale
rodgy
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
noble shale
sweet thanks for the help
oh one more question in boss fights without adds being pulled whats the general damage people are getting?
swapped from sin to actually be able to do decent damage and cant get above 3.5m on boss fights
crystal oasis
does anyone have a weak aura to remind to cast symbols after a wipe?
crystal oasis
Thank you
bleak haven
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
north schooner
Pvp change that wouldn’t affect pve btw
if only they had a system in place to use different values for pve and pvp 
warm marlin
truly a mystery
warm marlin
you mean in hm? Or nexus king
raw flicker
why Sub is now S tier on sites like Archon? What changed on last patch that make it jump? Buffs, tier bonus?
void ocean
Archon is garbage
raw flicker
Archon is garbage
Archon is not based on warcraft logs statistics ?
chrome palm
Subtlety aoe was already strong, various bug fixes improved it, tier translates well into m+, massively better trinket choice for subtlety
void ocean
Archon is not based on warcraft logs statistics ?
statistics can be misleading
chrome palm
Warrior and rsham are also very strong which subtlety likes
raw flicker
statistics can be misleading
no kidding? lol
lilac stag
it is what it is, guess he was mad, but think i will just have the people that a...
I’m not current. Did guild break up or just one person go menty?
raw flicker
anyway, sub is better or not this patch?
plush roost
Warrior and rsham are also very strong which subtlety likes
Yet DH takes their spot in phys comp xd
Yeah sub is good
chrome palm
Yep :)
void ocean
well comparing to s2 yea, a lot better
plush roost
Literally inch'd out by dh and dk rn
lilac stag
Sub is very good in keys & certain raid fights.
void ocean
still wouldnt go that far to cal it S tier
chrome palm
I mean you have a class which does almost nothing besides damage
raw flicker
what make it jumps on s3? I didnt see the blue posts related to buffs
plush roost
But one more tuning and sub is likely in
chrome palm
Literal passenger
lilac stag
Smell of rose petals tossed in
warm marlin
what make it jumps on s3? I didnt see the blue posts related to buffs
BP got buffed by 11% and nimble flurry is now boosted by shadow blades
chrome palm
Why bring subtlety when the havoc has chaos brand chaos nova darkness imprison etc
Although if you are running phys comp I imagine chaos nova might be worse than blind potentially
lilac stag
Why bring a rogue
plush roost
I imagine phys comp can drop feral and play rogue lowkey
lilac stag
That’s the bigger question
warm marlin
How did u play drake
I’m gonna guess ur referring to nexus king burn, have a full clip of prep phase going into burn here #subtlety message . If you have autumn the timings won’t be quite as tight
plush roost
3% verse is nice but from what ive been seeing prio target dies too fast and sub blasts aoe way harder
chrome palm
Wound poison has some value this rotation
lilac stag
HoA and what Eco?
raw flicker
I imagine phys comp can drop feral and play rogue lowkey
dont say that! My main is a Feral and let us stay on keys! Just got over 3k IO/715 ilvl and now looking into my alt rogue.
chrome palm
Minimal but it is something
raw flicker
Ferals niche is burst prio into aoe
Mark of the wild, battle res....
plush roost
dont say that! My main is a Feral and let us stay on keys! Just got over 3k IO...
Hehe i think feral very good this patch
warm marlin
Wound poison has some value this rotation
Is havoc still too squishy to take mortal dance?
plush roost
Yeah but mark and brez arent going to help you when u miss timer
chrome palm
Is havoc still too squishy to take mortal dance?
Are you telling me havoc has wound poison 😭
plush roost
Cause your comp has 200m smallies left alive after prio target dies
Just from what im seeing anyway
raw flicker
Yeah but mark and brez arent going to help you when u miss timer
why not lol. a good brez can avoid a key to be broked
warm marlin
Are you telling me havoc has wound poison 😭
Yes it’s a choice node with a defensive talent but blade dance applies it aoe
Think it’s 50%
plush roost
Yeah mortal dance 5% vetter than wound but u lose deflection dance
warm marlin
Last time I pushed on dh you would kinda die without the defensive node though
In some keys
chrome palm
Also wound poison has to stack and can fall off easily
plush roost
I dont think its legal to drop deflecting once kets get bigger
Like in HoA the big one, echolon will murxer you
warm marlin
Like hoa I imagine the statue explosion just ends u without deflecting
chrome palm
Then it is just a fake PvP talent ig
warm marlin
Rogue can take wound much easier but the dh one is better
plush roost
Idk im just waiting to see if its all hands on midnight or we get another tuning round tbh too early to say
raw flicker
The pins says to not use Rotten. is that true? I can see on logs ppl still using it.
plush roost
Surely hunter doesnt stay this way
plush roost
The pins says to not use Rotten. is that true? I can see on logs ppl still using...
Rotten is like consistent and some high io people like it, esp in dawn and streets
chrome palm
Bm presses 1 button and outdoes your burst in lust
warm marlin
We are going to play arcane havoc bm and just let the hunter kill the entire dungeon
Funnel gaming
plush roost
Xd
lilac stag
@warm marlin are you still pirate in keys
warm marlin
No I’m an arcane mage
lilac stag
until you went blue 
plush roost
Outlaw stands for OnlyUplayedtBylTomaElvisW
chrome palm
Sub is kinda odd in weeklies man just dies too fast
lilac stag
Was interesting seeing playrate
lilac stag
Sub is kinda odd in weeklies man just dies too fast
yeah was gonna mess around with outlaw
warm marlin
Sub is kinda odd in weeklies man just dies too fast
Homies exchange carries bringing rats that need 10s
So it’s basically 1.5dps keys
chrome palm
yeah was gonna mess around with outlaw
I love having one spec I can’t play until after prog :)
I also redid my ui but it only works for sub and I don’t know where to put rtb 😭
warm marlin
Since I already have all my dinar items this patch I might do outlaw on main guy in raid
I have a feeling parse stuff is gonna be cringe
if I see people getting autumn week 18 I’m gonna be upset
warm marlin
ye
clever delta
gvie me dinar already, need forge
lilac stag
I also redid my ui but it only works for sub and I don’t know where to put rtb �...
Footpedal
warm marlin
intense calculations on Dimensius to determine optimal hold send timings
chrome palm
I don’t care anymore I am ignoring premed for burn I’m not missing my clones anymore
warm marlin
I don’t care anymore I am ignoring premed for burn I’m not missing my clones any...
The full cringe wa suite this tier is kind of insane
I have both a sectec bar and a coup bar to play around having to chain dance and the sht refund stuff
why I gotta do this
lilac stag
I love sub, I hate what we are
chrome palm
Delayed attacks in my damage window spec
lilac stag
let’s just recode dfa and fuck up everything.
warm marlin
Casting sectec with 0.4s left on dance and trying to time my recast of dance perfectly around the 0.9s mark so I don’t drop a gcd
chrome palm
.6s delay 2pc, delayed coup de grace, delayed secret technique
How did it get like this
lilac stag
They fixed the rs bug
And triple downed on it
You will enjoy your delays
big brained sub enjoyers
warm marlin
The best part of dimensius is his hit box being so far away I can’t tell when my sectecs hit out of dance if I ever screw up
Blissful ignorance
chrome palm
I was looking at logs I’m kinda sure I saw a clone hit the other side mass is that a thing
wispy crystal
!wa
wicked joltBOT
chrome palm
Hm
warm marlin
I never confirmed that in logs just assumed
chrome palm
I thought I saw secret damage on masses
warm marlin
The phys hit cleaving around you will hit
dusty totem
Yeah no clones are hitting the masses
native zodiac
im p sure the clones dont hit the masses if you send sectech on dim
native zodiac
thats not how it works for us sadly
chrome palm
No Ele can cleave both sides you just hit the boss bro
native zodiac
we are happy if we get another bug
chrome palm
Don’t get too greedy
wispy crystal
**__Subtlety WAs's:__**
Class packs:
> ### <:fuu:1184251947352608768> [Fuu's](<h...
what does the coup de grace WA Bar do any idea?
warm marlin
No Ele can cleave both sides you just hit the boss bro
yeah… the boss…
chrome palm
Be happy your clones don’t fall into the void
warm marlin
so true
chrome palm
Vanish from logs for eternity
short radish
true, could be a rookery situation
chrome palm
I’d like to see the Ele ascendence kill the nullbinders 
wispy crystal
can netherprism stacks carry over to boss fights?
e.g. build it up on trash then unload it on boss fight at 18 stacks?
lethal glen
Is there a channel I have to do the ! log command in or can I just post it here?
hollow cobalt
Hey how do i use netherprism as a sub rogue?
karmic harbor
can netherprism stacks carry over to boss fights?
e.g. build it up on trash th...
in m+ yes, in raid it resets
karmic harbor
Hey how do i use netherprism as a sub rogue?
!prism
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
wispy crystal
in m+ yes, in raid it resets
ty so for raid, i can just bind it to Shadowblades, since that is my only on-use right?
karmic harbor
ty so for raid, i can just bind it to Shadowblades, since that is my only on-use...
yes, maybe for some of the fights you'd want a seperate blades keybind incase you want more stacks for adds/dmg amps
wispy crystal
yes, maybe for some of the fights you'd want a seperate blades keybind incase yo...
sure understand, ty for the tip
karmic harbor
Is there a channel I have to do the ! log command in or can I just post it here?
can just post it here
lethal glen
!log
fossil forge
I’m gonna guess ur referring to nexus king burn, have a full clip of prep phase ...
I meant hardmode
hazy breach
For hardmode you can prep everything if you want
fossil forge
Cleaving the adds is the way
warm marlin
Yeah take it from our 3 failed hm runs in a row
Just kill the adds
Cc’ing them is way harder especially depending on your comp
warm marlin
I would also recommend a better comp than brew mist warlock sp rogue
warm marlin
Lemme tell you double rop into void tendril into aoe blind went simply hard (they ran around the rop and meleed our cloth wearers to death)
wispy crystal
for soulbinder Mythic - for the knockback, can we shadowstep and the puddles drop where we cast the step from?
or does the puddle drop where the shadowstep lands (on top of the boss which will be bad)?
keen dome
They drop where the shadowstep lands IF you step while in the air
You can step as soon as the puddle appears after you land from the knockback
wispy crystal
You can step as soon as the puddle appears after you land from the knockback
got it, just wanted to make sure so i dont get yelled at my raid leader 🙏
thank you
keen dome
Ye, it's def not something I did in my first pug kill 
What I do is get knocked, wait to land, make sure I see the goop, and then step.
maiden oar
@tepid trellis quick question about your dimmy kill pov if you dont mind - do you think skipping rupture in amp like you did is the best way to guarantee 2nd sectech fits?
hazy breach
You can easily fit 2 sectechs anyway given that you prepped
maiden oar
im considering pooling coup from the dance on 2nd voidwarden on 2nd platform and sending potentially an extra symbols to farm up sht stacks instead but i watched your pov where you did the rupture thing and thats infinitely more straightforward
ah ok
i think if i dont coup in that dance and i press symbols right after i still enter p3 with 3x symbols almost
hazy breach
Yea
hazy breach
The rupture does roughly the same amount of damage as an eviscerate does during the amp
So it doesnt matter that much, but it also continues ticking after right
maiden oar
ah ok
maiden oar
i was looking @ logs and no one was prepping the way i wanted to test so i just assumed i was overthinking it
but yeah ill give it a try on monday
bc in my head its really good 
limpid sage
So it doesnt matter that much, but it also continues ticking after right
Ya but isn’t it better to get the sectec cdr as well?
hazy breach
I mean its not worth it in the general opener, so i dont see why it would be better here
To use sectech immediately
maiden oar
actually one guy was half doing it but he didnt send the symbols for sht farm
limpid sage
Because of the dmg amp
maiden oar
but he was pooling the coup so i feel ok about that @ least
hazy breach
You get sectech inside the amp anyway
So
It doesnt matter
So the comparison is between an eviscerate and a rupture
limpid sage
You can’t lowroll it if you prep? I feel like it’s been super tight for me except when I sent sectec first
maiden oar
did you ever want to send symbols by itself to farm sht before this tier
limpid sage
Ya ig so
maiden oar
or is this a new development due to fight design
limpid sage
did you ever want to send symbols by itself to farm sht before this tier
I did that on mugzee as well
maiden oar
ah ok
limpid sage
When holding dmg
maiden oar
i felt like a genius figuring it out natty at end of dimmy p1
hazy breach
You can’t lowroll it if you prep? I feel like it’s been super tight for me excep...
Idk i fit an entire coup in after my sectech
maiden oar
but maybe im slow
hazy breach
Most of the time
maiden oar
and i shouldve been aware way earleir
hazy breach
So its not particularly tight
limpid sage
i felt like a genius figuring it out natty at end of dimmy p1
Did you know you can cancel the stun from dimmy before getting sucked in
tribal blade
tested this prep stuff on heroic and doing real numbers now
maiden oar
i thought i was dead the first time i did it
tribal blade
it's good shit
limpid sage
Same here xd
maiden oar
tested this prep stuff on heroic and doing real numbers now
what is the prep stuff
is this more secret info
tribal blade
Just get into p3 with 2 superchargers, 10+ sht and coup ready
do you prep disorient too
hazy breach
Nah dont have the time for that unless you do literally nothing on the second set of adds
tribal blade
what is the prep stuff
all the stuff of holding dmg and stacking up supercharger/sht/coup/etc
hazy breach
But you could
maiden oar
all the stuff of holding dmg and stacking up supercharger/sht/coup/etc
oh ok
tribal blade
Nah dont have the time for that unless you do literally nothing on the second se...
i tried it out before the amp on heroic dim, and it seemed a bit sus
like if you mistime it you're boned
but i managed to make it work thank god
hazy breach
I dont think it matters much though since youll be going flag>rupture>backstab (guaranteed natty proc anyway since its more than 20s since you hit) > sectech > get disorienting again
So youre saving the natty proc for until after disorienting
maiden oar
is there a secret trick to target dimmy as youre falling
hazy breach
But youre likely to get a natty reset by that time anyway because BL
maiden oar
he doesnt seem to want to cooperate
tribal blade
I dont think it matters much though since youll be going flag>rupture>backstab (...
very true
hazy breach
You cant target him until you land
maiden oar
grim
if youre doing the slice and dice stuff for nexus king do you have to do it really early to still get sht or is it not that bad
tribal blade
this is some of the most degen stuff i can remember from playing sub
tribal blade
if youre doing the slice and dice stuff for nexus king do you have to do it real...
if you use a symbols to prep your sht it's fast
maiden oar
ah ok
i will try it when i am free from extend prison
i redid my keybinds just for this
maiden oar
this is some of the most degen stuff i can remember from playing sub
tbh this is exactly what im looking for and what i miss from ffxiv
i love nonsense like this
noble shale
finality or the rotton for m+?
chrome palm
You get sectech inside the amp anyway
seems rather common for this not to be the case
dry yarrow
hey guys, quick question, if I wanna learn the spec better, would it be safe to open a simc full html report and look at the apl section?
(I assume the guides are written with that in mind?)
hazy breach
I would recommend reading the guides instead
lilac stag
have you tried just prepping harder?
chrome palm
we have wiped to nullbinder last set numerous times
hazy breach
Well you still do damage to the nullbinders
empty plume
I read (past tense) the APL
hazy breach
Its just after they die you symbols and just auto
empty plume
kinda worth doing exactly once, to understand what the sim is doing exactly
lilac stag
I read (past tense) the APL
did you also read where raidbots tells you not to do that?
hazy breach
And maybe you could BP instead of coup for your last finishers in dance
empty plume
did you also read where raidbots tells you not to do that?
why would you not read the APL
think for yourself and explain pls
lilac stag
it's one example from the sequence. if you're actually pulling the apl out of the report and reading that, just read the guide
empty plume
ah, you don't know what APL means
like, I had to read the APL in order to make edits and test alternative playstyle options
void ocean
lol
lilac stag
i know what it means, and the sample sequence is often misunderstood for it
empty plume
the Action Priority List is the code
void ocean
damn scath, learn what an apl is
lilac stag
also the current apl isnt current unless eleem pushed the latest aoe stuff
but yolo and have at it
your time
warm marlin
And maybe you could BP instead of coup for your last finishers in dance
I seem to remember struggling to get coup ready
were you holding coup for the nullbinder dance?
lilac stag
damn scath, learn what an apl is
yeah that scath dude, absolute idiot 
hazy breach
were you holding coup for the nullbinder dance?
No
warm marlin
hmm might be it
empty plume
hazy breach
Dont think you have the time to build again if you do
dry yarrow
I would recommend reading the guides instead
The guides are after the apl though right? The only reason I am asking is because, I am a bit special and I get a bit overwhelmed/confused when there's 3 different guides available
and Id rather just go straight to the source
chrome palm
my comp is very bad at the last set i dont think i have that liberty to hold there
unfort
empty plume
the APL is just the currently solved best playstyle given buff and debuff and resource checks, it creates what the sim does. If that is your style, go ahead and read it - but the code is not too friendly and will take more time to interpret the exact meaning versus reading a guide
warm marlin
I’m not entirely convinced I’ll have a singular good prep for p3 before we kill
dry yarrow
the APL is just the currently solved best playstyle given buff and debuff and re...
Thanks
warm marlin
our p2 plat is still quite messy and without autumn your damage holds have to be so perfectly timed
vale pine
fuu in shambles
it should be fairly easy to read tbh ^^
empty plume
I'd suggest reading a guide first - which I assume you've already done probably - and trying to interpret the APL off of that
it's easy to read, just assumes a basic understanding of logic operations (and it is much more brainpower than reading a guide that is designed to be easily interpreted)
lilac stag
The guides are after the apl though right? The only reason I am asking is becaus...
all 3 guides cover the same material in slightly different explanations. if one isn't making sense look at the other two. all three guide writers are in here and work together. the method guide is likely the most straight forward.
limpid sage
How many ShT stacks
vale pine
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
hazy breach
8
pearl swan
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
plush roost
our p2 plat is still quite messy and without autumn your damage holds have to be...
You dont have autumn? Im so sorry
Our p2 is also quite messy, its been the silliest things to like a missed grip or gate
Our p3 is very good tho lmao
Just have to actually get there xd
warm marlin
You dont have autumn? Im so sorry
The struggles of not having a holy paladin
lilac stag
we had one, now he's a warlock lol