we started soul hunters last night
#subtlety
lilac stag
Then you get to week 5-6 of the tier. 
may not even be on rogue for salad bar or dimey
Our monk getting married so warrior tank going monk, back to rent-a-warrior
tribal blade
the fact that other boots drop from raid when you only put the soul hunters boots on that slot is criminal
hazy breach
Every armor type except leather has boe boots too
lilac stag
That’s the bigger criminal bullshit
tribal blade
so crazy
tribal blade
it's so funny, i won 714 non-soul hunter boots from raid and every single person only needed them for free upgrades
lilac stag
I have lfr interlopers on Woyer.
Mythic: 128k upgrade
Heroic: 79k upgrade
Basic Bitch Mythic Boots: 48k
tribal blade
so i could send my soul hunter boots to 710
lilac stag
48k from lfr to 723 is criminal
tribal blade
gearing is weird this tier
cloak is dead slot
boots are basically dead slot because you can only equip 1 pair
tribal blade
and i messed up last week and crafted 720 belt without realizing i could buy 714 boe
tribal blade
My 717 wins for assa and sub now
my sim let me replace the disc belt at 704 belt with a socket
or it was equal
and i figured fuck using the belt with rng
lilac stag
I’d like to replace it on warrior to get nitro boost back
tribal blade
haha true
wild hornet
mine never saw the light of day
lilac stag
you lose too much stam
huge stam gains
wild hornet
nothing a 200% overkill cant ruin
azure thicket
belt is a slight gain with 6/6 myth nerub signet ring for me
maiden oar
tribal blade
**huge stam gains**
me likey big stam 😉
lilac stag
me likey big stam 😉
tribal blade
fury warrs and their ridiculous hp
tribal blade
it's actually such a big advantage having an enormous health pool
that's what goes through my head every time my guildies rip on me for having cheat
indigo steppe
Does anyone know if when we are in TFD and if I SecTech when I have like 1 or 0.5S of SD left, does the 2nd tick of SecTech use the danse macabre stacks and dmg modifiers of when I pressed the button or my current state?
1st opener of raid been trying to sectech in TFD and have seen some crazy numbers
but im not sure if its just lucky crits or something
jade urchin
that's what goes through my head every time my guildies rip on me for having che...
mine always bully me for my hp
it looks so sad between hunters warris dhs
hollow spear
Does anyone know if when we are in TFD and if I SecTech when I have like 1 or 0....
The damage gets calculated dynamically. The first clone hits at 1.0, the second at 1.2 or 1.3 seconds. If your first dance is still active then, the DM stacks apply. If they hit during your follow-up dance, the new DM stacks apply.
lilac stag
The important part is getting dance back up immediately
indigo steppe
So is it only worth it to send CB+SecTech in TFD if I have >1.2sec of dance remaining?
indigo steppe
yeah im more just worried about the sectech ticking when I don't even have SD up
but that would be like pretty unlikely timing probably
lilac stag
hit dance+bs macro and youre good
barren sandal
!cbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
strange chasm
If we are just hitting p3 now a couple times after under 100 pulls did you guys kill pretty soon after? On Dim that is?
queen kraken
are people starting to play thistle tea+tornado over cb and rotten?
swift tinsel
first logged kill on plexus as sin bc I was fucking around and didn't expect us to kill, rip
lethal gale
how are you guys usually cycling forge/prism in keys on cds? something like Forge>no trinket>prism? or holding slightly depending on the situation and going Forge>forge>prism?
queen kraken
how are you guys usually cycling forge/prism in keys on cds? something like Forg...
im doing forge, prism (9 or 10 stacks usually at that point), forge and so on... cuz just the first prism is low stacks
unless u die
lethal gale
gotcha running antenna/prism rn and usually find myself holding till 16-18 stacks for bigger packs
iron dagger
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
shadow lance
What's the command? I forgot
slate lantern
!prism
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
shadow lance
🐐
timid meadow
!guide
torpid bronze
!wa
wicked joltBOT
harsh grotto
i have 1 spark and im not sure what i should craft next. anyone smarter that can help me out?
https://raider.io/characters/eu/twisting-nether/Ryoden
north schooner
top gear it
tidal marsh
Sim it
Probably gonna be either belt or maybe a ring or summin, depending if you want more vers or mastery or summin
or maybe even Crit, since you're kinda gigalow on it
harsh grotto
will sim then, just asked in case of anything obvious im missing. thx
north schooner
trust the robot, not humans
lilac stag
trust the robot, not humans
Robot programmed by humans. 
astral axle
not for long
clever delta
lilac stag
Which one?
void ocean
ooh
crisp lion
Share?
charred kestrel
!wa
wicked joltBOT
hushed roost
What’s the coup wa helper do?
warm marlin
Shows a grey gcd bar when you cast coup with a tick for the final hit, since any hit of coup can proc the delayed Shadowcraft refund. Gives you a bit more leeway in spellqueing your next gcd because you know coup can’t refund anymore
short radish
Shows a grey gcd bar when you cast coup with a tick for the final hit, since any...
So if we get 7sht stacks anytime the greybar is active up till the line, it means we refund?
warm marlin
yes
I modified it a bit to just be a bar to the tick line, and if I haven’t refunded by then I queue next builder, but it’s the same idea
Instead of guessing if the late refund happens you know it won’t by a certain point
plush roost
Can you make a WA that lets you vantus after a faction change (im new to the game and learned something this week)
Xd
warm marlin
nop get owned bozo
plush roost
Big bozo
lilac stag
I modified it a bit to just be a bar to the tick line, and if I haven’t refunded...
did you share this or is it secret
warm marlin
lilac stag
That has the changes you made as well?
short radish
did you share this or is it secret
A secret technique almost.
lilac stag
A secret technique almost.
So it’s delayed and buggy?
warm marlin
no sorry if you want that just remove the tick and change the 1.2s timer in conditions to 0.9
technically it’s like 0.9-0.95 from looking at my logs but
Can change it to 0.95 to be safe. I suspect it might be ping related in some way but not sure
hidden oar
it is impossible to cast eviscerate if we have coup overlayed right? We can only do it by using bp but in singler target it is not worth it.
Just trying to check if maybe I could hold onto coup in ST to cast it with SD
wispy crystal
**__Subtlety WAs's:__**
Class packs:
> ### <:fuu:1184251947352608768> [Fuu's](<h...
What's the coup WA?
shrewd lantern
it is impossible to cast eviscerate if we have coup overlayed right? We can only...
coup replaces evis until you cast it
charred kestrel
What's the coup WA?
shrewd lantern
Well technically, it is an evis just a much stronger one.
wispy crystal
https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/316923898501529600/1418262619470...
Oh wait this is a txt file and not a WA? sorry noob tech guy here
warm marlin
it’s the text you import into wa with the import button
storm field
https://raider.io/characters/eu/draenor/Kjellkåre
just wondering what should I craft? Should I craft a ring or offhand?
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
glad rampart
!blades
magic ruin
Rarely cook weak auras myself. Anyone have a good couple of weak auras for Netherprism and Araz ritual forge trinkets
placid elk
there are on wago
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
nova cairn
!stats
magic ruin
there are on wago
saw a nice netherprism one, but not a ritual forge that matches at all. Guess I'll try to copy netherprism one and modify it to ritual forge
wicked joltBOT
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility >= Critical Strike >>> Haste
glad rampart
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
placid elk
saw a nice netherprism one, but not a ritual forge that matches at all. Guess I'...
whats so special you want to track on araz trinket?
has no stacks, just press and play
glad rampart
!prepull
wicked joltBOT
Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.
- Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended- Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully. - Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than1% damagegain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.
magic ruin
whats so special you want to track on araz trinket?
Idk if anyone had thought of a weak aura that helps not mislicking which on use to use. The netherprism one shines above 15 stacks, so I guess that will do
raven frost
!cbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
magic dove
Anyone know what the like adjusted expected recahge time for dance is when you think about the CD refunds? Its 60 seconds base, but like 30 seconds effective?
warm marlin
depends on what you are doing while waiting for it
warm marlin
you can farm a dance back rather quickly in dance itself, maybe 20 seconds. If you’re just backstabbing waiting it’ll be more like 45
magic dove
makes sense
round charm
!wa
wicked joltBOT
quasi portal
how many gcds during dance? imrpoved gets to 10 seconds so 8-9 ish and in standard one 6-7 ?
shadow lance
8 gcd in 8 sec dance
warm marlin
12 in tfd 8 in regular
alpine wraith
first dance is 12 secs normal dance 8
alpine wraith
send it
oh well depends on what you want to do
araz can be whatever unless you really want to do some things
little epoch
i dont have araz trinket yet
and prism i wanna send every 2nd Shadowblades for big burst
alpine wraith
yea i mean if you have like 11 million 300k is whatever
little epoch
so araz can compensate in between
alpine wraith
but if you have 350 i would not
little epoch
i have 3.5m atm
alpine wraith
ah then it is whatever
shadow lance
Bro, it's your money, do what you want with
little epoch
ye ik dont care about gold but if its worth to have araz i guess
alpine wraith
he maybe means if it is worth well you wont really replace it
unless you get mythic antenna or pacemaker
or crystal in vault
little epoch
crystal i had but it simmed worse
placid elk
is there a !command with all the available commands ?
tepid trellis
is there a !command with all the available commands ?
nop
or maybe ! help does
not sure
little epoch
If you have access to mythic bosses maybe wait a bit
vendor for buying is delayed
he wont be there on turbo release
leaden plover
sing me up @keen dome
keen dome
Hell yeah
warm marlin
vendor for buying is delayed
yes for sure
keen dome
I dunno when I'm gonna do it but it's gonna happen this season
I think it would be incredibly funny
warm marlin
I dunno when I'm gonna do it but it's gonna happen this season
All 26 sub rogues in the region in one raid group
leaden plover
All 26 sub rogues in the region in one raid group
if we have 26 in total
keen dome
All 26 sub rogues in the region in one raid group
Just imagine the comedy of us all hitting our burst on pull. And then there being like, a solid 1:30 there nothing happens.
But I think stuff will die comically fast
warm marlin
I’m sure the collector intermission on araz will go excellently
vale pine
!wa
wicked joltBOT
keen dome
I’m sure the collector intermission on araz will go excellently
That's why we have to kill him before intermission 
I guess monk healer and a DH tank would be the best combo alongside warrior and shaman
Warrior for Shout. DH tank for their debuff. Monk for theirs and monks are cool. Shaman for Skyfury and I guess Heroism
dry zodiac
Druid healer or tank better than dh
iron plover
can I be a part of this c:
rotund urchin
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
frail path
Who need vault or raid drops when you can just quest? Got the champion one first week the same way 🎲 That's my luck for the year spent.
frail path
Instant and mind/atrophic depending on key level. I think you can swap off mind at 14+ or so but might be wrong
M+: Instant + Mind/Atro
Raid: Instant + Atro
Delve: Instant + Mind
brittle flower
ty good sir
crystal bone
i like instant + crippling for the 2 dungeons with run away mobs
ie murloc area in gambit and up to first boss in halls
then swap back to atrophic
strong shoal
M+: Instant + Mind/Atro
Raid: Instant + Atro
Delve: Instant + Mind
i was losing my mind reading this until i realized i'm the one in the wrong channel
crystal bone
i was losing my mind reading this until i realized i'm the one in the wrong chan...
bonk!
strong shoal
frail path
I'm imagining you cracking your knuckles, about to lay it on me
frail path
At least there's a delete function there so save us from those moments when they happen
strong shoal
To be fair, being tired after work doesn't help
keen dome
Druid healer or tank better than dh
Oh, Druid tank is a great shout
And then we'd have a CR for when I fuck up and die
azure thicket
okay so i know the opener is supposed to be the same everytime, flag into rupture but what if your target is already ruptured and you have full combo points before sending flag
just you know you over ruptured and not sending rotation is gonna grief more than trying to find a new rupture target
dry zodiac
Just evisc. It doesn’t have to be rupture unless you need to refresh
azure thicket
ye i figured just making sure
dry zodiac
Unless you have coup
azure thicket
kinda got it right today
warm marlin
Can flag BP in aoe or with coup up or just rip flag dance symbol sectec
The robot just rips flag into sectec iirc
dense swallow
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
fallow nimbus
so close 
mystic merlin
Is it worth pooling for thistle tea before shadow dance?
fallow nimbus
you try to not autoproc tea
fallow nimbus
don't delay cds because of tea
livid hamlet
hey guys, question about the rotation, for the m+ spec that uses first dance. So in the opener, im backstabbing immediately after activating shadow dance and symbols, then i hit shadow blades and my first secret technique. should i be backstabbing after every activation of shadow dance and symbols, even though it overcaps my combo points?
lucid jackal
Your first generator in dance should be backstab
If you dont need to generate combo points, you dont press it
But your first generator should be backstab
plush roost
But your first generator should be backstab
Real men shuriken toss into shiv
(For legal reasons this is a joke)
livid hamlet
yeah i get that. idk unless im misinterpreting the opener, it seems like were to backstab after our first dance and before our first secret technique to get a stack of danse macabre right, even though it overcaps CP?
lucid jackal
No
If you dont need to generate combo points, you dont press a generator
You dont backstab at full CP
plush roost
Why would it over cap cp? 0cp strike > flag > 7cp rupture > 0cp backstab
lucid jackal
^
plush roost
If youre starting your opener without flag and its just tfd (such as between pulls in m+) you can immediatly sectec as your first global in dance or spread rupture and then dance
Whatever makes the most situational sense.
But first generator in dance is backstab. So you can go 7cp > dance >sectec > 0cp backstab
livid hamlet
well whenever i press shadow dance i get full combo points. on icy veins, it straight up says to backstab right after using shadow dance and shadow blades in the opener.
lucid jackal
You dont
plush roost
Youre sure youre not forgetting to rupture?
lucid jackal
Shadow dance doesnt give u full combo points
plush roost
Show a log or smthn cause that is not a thing that occurs
Unless youre doing symbols before dance with 7+ shadowcraft stacks
But i doubt thats whats happening since usually that requires some preramp
livid hamlet
hmm i think my issue is that i erroneously macroed shadow dance and backstab together lol. meant to get rid of that macro but mistakenly kept it when swapping between st and aoe specs, sorry for the confusion
plush roost
Thatll do it, classic haha
acoustic matrix
You often proc shadow techniques along with premed overcapping too
Altho it's not supposed to happen it does a lot in my logs
plush roost
You cant proc shadowcraft refund with premed up, its a bug
acoustic matrix
yeah but I do get it a ton
livid hamlet
right on. thanks for the help guys, my opener/rotation seems to be lining up correctly now. silly me
lucid jackal
U crafted an int dagger bruv
dense swallow
omg
livid hamlet
oh nooooo
dense swallow
omg
alpine wraith
happens quite often you are not alone
ripe flame
oh no
dense swallow
i was like i feel like im doing my rotation properly
but my dps was so sub par
kms LOL
lilac stag
There’s a int dagger from the arathi you can pair it with which will also knock you out of stealth
If you really want to go all in
dense swallow
i think ill go back to agility
don't mind if i do.
how do i turn it into acorrect dagger
or agility
i mean
shrewd lantern
you cant
lilac stag
You don’t
shrewd lantern
you need to make a new one
dense swallow
are u srs
charred kestrel
RIP spark lol
lilac stag
You picked the int dagger
shrewd lantern
stabber
keen dome
the one with agility
lilac stag
I like the str dagger
dense swallow
ffs man
lilac stag
Takes 2 hands
keen dome
they should add a str dagger as a joke
dense swallow
at the end of the day it's my fault but could they not make it slightly more obvious lol
like what rogue is crafting an int dagger
lucid jackal
Ya lol
lilac stag
You
dense swallow
thats true
lilac stag
Unfortunately WoW still requires reading
shrewd lantern
its a caster wep
twin quartz
Jdotb is the master of crafting the wrong weapon
lilac stag
I did the same on my warrior last season I think
Have you run you warrior on any of the mythic fights, of just running rogue when you were reclearing.
lucid jackal
we did up to nexus king this week on alts
lilac stag
We’re losing our shout possibly, may end up progging last two on warrior.
lucid jackal
OOp
lucid jackal
Fury is chill tho
shrewd lantern
rb ramp exe
lucid jackal
30% buff to arms tho fr
lilac stag
This version of fury is very chill
lucid jackal
yA
lilac stag
Don’t feel like I’m going nuts with apm
lucid jackal
The nice thing about melee on dimensius is that you don't do anything
U just hit the boss the entire time
shrewd lantern
bruh guy soulhunters as melee
actually the worst shit
me when the tank dh just stands in mid casting
lilac stag
Reflect looks very good on nexus king
shrewd lantern
away fromcthe other two
tbh reflect is a very strong magic cd
its just not ams busted
hazy breach
The nice thing about melee on dimensius is that you don't do anything <:garf_sit...
Most bosses*
Ranged yapping about clearing space on soulhunter while i just hit boss
lucid jackal
Ranged and melee play a different game on most fights but yeah
But yeah so much of this tier was just hit the boss afk
Its just casters were better
lilac stag
we got through first intermission in first hour of prog. Seems like it looks way more chaotic than it actually is.
lucid jackal
P3 as a warlock 
lucid jackal
These guys actually have so much room to play the game
Yes but some casters literally cant play the game in P3
bcuz of all the movement lol
lilac stag
Burning rush 24/7
left ledge
Yes but some casters literally cant play the game in P3
Yeah some in p3 true
But p1 and p2
Is so free for them
left ledge
Actually crazy how different it is
shrewd lantern
or they still on that insta cast lavaburst shit
lilac stag
does ele even cast this tier
Anhk cast 
left ledge
How was your dim kill though did you get cucked on the kill pull @lucid jackal
lucid jackal
How was your dim kill though did you get cucked on the kill pull <@9683452041782...
I mean we played double rogue and I have normal prism and no autmn
lucid jackal
So it went about as well as it can, given the circumstances
left ledge
I died on my last set of cds and lost an 18 stacker
But otherwise I have mythic prism and autumn
For losing 18 stacks I honestly did better than I should’ve
shrewd lantern
yeah thats the one downside of prism
lilac stag
We have 2 fdk and another rogue. I’m guessing I’ll be running Warrior.
shrewd lantern
dying is banned banned
left ledge
I just wish I could step rings later in fight
That’s why I died
Just got too low
No healthstone no pot
Died to 90k overkill
lilac stag
no heals
lilac stag
No one sees yellow in raid frames
left ledge
So I just didn’t
left ledge
It was second last ring set
brisk onyx
lucid jackal
I only die in p3 to people being noobs
Like I died this week cuz we didn't move the melee gravity at all
I went to the spot but the soaker didn't
Gg
lucid jackal
Lol
left ledge
lilac stag
Classic rogue fashion.
lucid jackal
Literally
left ledge
Yeah we had some people lost with soaks for a bit too
Although we did call to line up with 4th planet
But ig people too tunnel vision sometimes
lilac stag
I get lost in the sea of purple at times
shrewd lantern
you just have to not w key too forward
into his model
else you just take ticking damage
left ledge
Yeah that’s fine but I was eating the WHOLE KNOCK AND STAYING OUT
lilac stag
Our fract kill time was 440. Tragic.
left ledge
I got mind controlled
left ledge
Our fract kill time was 440. Tragic.
True I gotta look at kill timers too
Might be a hold prism angle on reclears
Like on loomithar it’s prob just going to be forge-nothing-prism
lilac stag
Oh you can step the knock?
left ledge
Apparently
LOL
I was wondering how people parsed on that shit boss
I just couldn’t
lilac stag
left ledge
But it’s because they’re fkin stepping back in
lilac stag
bless your rng
left ledge
By every knock did you get like 1 or 2
crystal bone
i didnt get a coup in tfd tho
lilac stag
I think I had 6 this week
crystal bone
By every knock did you get like 1 or 2
i think i had 3 knocks
left ledge
But I didn’t know I could step back
shrewd lantern
i had chimps hogging my area this week
left ledge
I was told I couldn’t
shrewd lantern
left ledge
Yeah well my spot is shared
With an unfortunate dh
I’ve witnessed him dying so many times
shrewd lantern
no i mean like some pulls 3-4 people decide
left ledge
shrewd lantern
to come to my spot
lilac stag
i had chimps hogging my area this week
That’s what cheat death is for. Monkey removal
lilac stag
Bold move #subtlety message
left ledge
Cheat wouldnt have saved me
lilac stag
I know. Just amusing.
left ledge
That’s why I’m boycotting it
Dogshit talent just does nothing if you take a damage instance after the proc
lilac stag
Boycott rogue. Easier. 
left ledge
Kinda crazy though
I gapped everyone on healing taken (I was the lowest) and damage taken (also the lowest)
I had 30% feint uptime
fluid fiber
what changed for rio? anyone knows? everyone got more? i cant find any info on raiderio or blue tracker
dry zodiac
Bug fix. 5 extra points on every 12+ key
steel jolt
it's on wowhead
fluid fiber
ah thx guys
junior lintel
Is there any way to optimize flawless form uptime during shadow dance downtime? I feel like i often run out of unseen blade procs and my nimble flurry dmg is lower than others
azure mauve
I mean we played double rogue and I have normal prism and no autmn
where would you use autum?
west tide
sub is so good man
i might become one of u sub chads been havin a blast playin it this tier
ornate lake
Tips for getting good logs on loom and soulbinder?
jagged hamlet
phase/kill timer on loomi and how long do adds live on soulbinder
ornate lake
My biggest problem is having no CDs during burn phases and if I hold CDs I end up getting whispers from raid lead if I'm having network issues
jagged hamlet
lol
queen rain
i wish there was an option to turn off auto tea
ornate lake
i like doing healer dps for the first 30 sec of a fight
For me it's last 30 seconds of a fight, especially burn phase on loom..and seeing mages and dks absolutely blasting the bug into oblivion
ornate lake
On keys Idk as long as the pull has 7+ mobs. If I have 18 stacks of prism I'm blasting the meters
Ofcourse as long as I have flag and blades and dance/symbol charges
jagged halo
question: for sub rogue, do you only want to send tea w/ dance when you full combo (flag/sb)? mainly my question is outside of the tea with all cds. when do i send tea?
or just send it with any of your dances? (whether i flag/sb or not)
ornate lake
Just macro dance to tea
lilac stag
Macro it to dance and forget about it
ornate lake
And you have dance with 0 Cp so you can follow up with a backstab
For premed and macabre
jagged halo
thank you 🙂
junior lintel
Is there any way to optimize flawless form uptime during shadow dance downtime? ...
bump 🙂
wintry heart
Other than a pack being nearly dead is there ever a good reason to hold cooldowns in m+
grand viper
uh burn phase
if lust is coming up soon
if theres an intermission
so yea theres a few
lilac stag
if lust is coming up soon
we dont care about lust mate
grand viper
are u saying if lust is coming up in like 10 seconds you would rather use ur cds than just wait lol?
ornate lake
Rogue
Lust
Choose one
lilac stag
gets cds recharging
ornate lake
Remember sub does healer damage without CDs. Until unless it's absolutely necessary, do not hold back
grand viper
Feel like if its a small amount of time there isnt giant harm in holding
especially if ur dances arent capped
lilac stag
gcd capped spec, near zero use for haste. lust is aamazing
tawdry geyser
Sub just doesn’t get as much out of lust as other specs
grand viper
yea im aware
lilac stag
you're not if you're holding for lust
ornate lake
Only times I hold back are:-
1>Waiting for dances and symbol charges to be at sufficient amount
2>Pack is almost dead
3>Big Momma coming up next
fallen crescent
Soo when i play my friend who is a disc priest and he decides to give me pi because we are in coms and irl friends.. he is trolling rip
Big pi gains
lilac stag
poor tank could have used it
lilac stag
could have made him feel like the belle of the ball
left ledge
where would you use autum?
Idk if anyone replied because I can’t read but you want it on second platform
At around 5:05 ish when you pop cds on pargoth
Otherwise you wouldn’t get your cds until a couple seconds into burn
(The 5:05 is assuming you’re holding dps in p1 and waiting for the second rock on platform 1)
But basically on pargoth you want autumn
placid elk
!wa
wicked joltBOT
swift coral
how do we trust sims for m+?
I run 3 scenarios: 1tar 5min (classic sim), 4targets 1.5 min, 8targets 1min
in all cases the alpha ring (7k crit>1k mast) sims higher than priory ring(5.5k mast>3.5k vers) - in all cases its from 0.4-0.9% dps increase
feels hella weird (sim link for reference: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/siLDd94K3BuMZy1MjN3vee)
wet echo
just sim dungeon slice
hidden oar
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
iron plover
And you have dance with 0 Cp so you can follow up with a backstab
This feels so clunky tbh
sacred magnet
is there a way to macro araz and prism on the same macro so it gets used on the first shadow blades and then prism on the 1:30 shadow blades?
feral knot
/use Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
sacred magnet
okay thought it wouldnt work or something hahaha thanks man
sacred magnet
got it thanks!
placid elk
is sec tech "uncapped" and whats the range around target?
trim wing
coup
hidden oar
!stats
wicked joltBOT
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility >= Critical Strike >>> Haste
tepid trellis
is sec tech "uncapped" and whats the range around target?
soft capped at 5 and its like 5-8 yards
hidden oar
!wa
wicked joltBOT
summer berry
I have strange question, do I black powder in dance even without find weakness on targets?
hidden oar
!tricks
wicked joltBOT
Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0
cursive vapor
I have strange question, do I black powder in dance even without find weakness o...
!aoe
wicked joltBOT
General Gist of the Aoe rotation
- At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
- At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
- Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
placid elk
I have strange question, do I black powder in dance even without find weakness o...
if there are 4+ yeah
summer berry
thanks
sour sun
!prism
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
placid elk
i know its rare situation but when prio target that had fazed died and u proc coup, do you burn sec tech for applying fazed before coup?
placid elk
yeah but lets say i dont have dance up for that situation.
i guess its a result of bad gameplay and have to plan ahead, happened to me once in an eco dome and burned my coup by mistake
left ledge
So prio dying shouldn’t matter
solid vale
Does Atrophic Poison still Stack?
shadow lance
Outside of dance, just send
left ledge
If you don’t have dance then you shouldn’t worry about maximizing fazed for your coup
placid elk
i see. so just send
potent valve
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
left ledge
If cds are coming up your damage is so bad that it can be worth it to hold coup for 20 seconds for flag
In fact you’ll commonly see that in logs
placid elk
i had dance coming and thought "nice i can 2x coup and get so much flawless form stacks before the dance".
burned coup.
realized i didnt have fazed up
left ledge
Nah never play it that way
You don’t really game flawless form unless you’re dancing back to back even then it’s kinda just playing itself
placid elk
so when holding coup you just do bp single target?
left ledge
No you press nothing until cds unless it’s like aoe and you’re about to dance in a few seconds
If I proc coup but I’m about to dance sure I’ll hold it for a couple seconds
But generally if you’re holding coup it’s for cds
In which case if it is low target count you just HOLD
Like you actually just sit at full combo points spamming backstab
I forget what the command was tbh
!cds
wicked joltBOT
Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 30 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
left ledge
Yeah this one
placid elk
i see, im chronically sender individual so i'll have to practice a bit
havent played sub more seriously since df s1
thanks
left ledge
It is pretty much a completely different spec
covert meteor
tbf, it does feel kind of bad to have coup but then sit on it waiting for dance to get to 35s (when you're at one charge, while your blades and flag is up)
placid elk
sometimes i just send and pray on sht procs for returns 
do a vanish in between dances
but thats feelcraft
i do that a lot and its not recomended
covert meteor
especially when pugs are so random, you can't properly plan at times
yeah, idk, same
on assa it's less troubling, bleeds and sudden demise carry, even when tanks are weird
near jetty
polar vessel
hello, can I get some ppl to look at my fractillus log? I'm simming for 4m5 on 5 minutes, I still feel like I'm doing abysmal damage. if anyone wanna help : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pTCcbvLFRqgQZdMk?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=15&view=timeline
I'd be happy knowing if I'm atleast doing rotation right, besides respecting unseen blade I'm not aware if there's anything else to do
slate lantern
hello, can I get some ppl to look at my fractillus log? I'm simming for 4m5 on 5...
youre casting shuriken storm way too many times, reread the coup rule. your second shadow dance needs to start immediately after the first ends every single time in cds, you dont wait for sectec to be back. you should be building stacks and just backstabbing before your cd window, and immediately finish after casting flag before proceeding with the rest of your rotation
you cast shuriken storm 25 times that fight, the highest ive seen in other logs just quickly looking at top 50 is 7
most between 1-5
polar vessel
youre casting shuriken storm way too many times, reread the coup rule. your seco...
when my coup is up and i'm entering a little burst, i just backstab no matter if i waste an ub stack then?
storm field
https://raider.io/characters/eu/draenor/Kjellkåre
can someone pls check waht I should craft next? (Kinda new to the whole game)
acoustic matrix
S-Tier spec in M+ btw <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
Man just getting into one of these run is brutal in LFG. Trying to get resi 16 atm and they just don't take you even with higher score than meta classes
polar vessel
because sometimes when i press bs it gives me two stacks and coup comes up, cucking me
olive jacinth
Mythic logic gate alpha vs myth signet? Both sim ~0.0% ...
lilac stag
Man just getting into one of these run is brutal in LFG. Trying to get resi 16 a...
It’s the same reason people don’t take arcane mages. There were 12 of us last season. The chance you’re inviting a shitty player on sub is quite high.
You also don’t bring anything but dmg
acoustic matrix
I think it's more about that than shitty player
lilac stag
It’s a one two punch
slate lantern
inb4 someone etlls me to sim all of them
embellishment differences are miniscule, you can sim if you want to min max otherwise just follow the guides
acoustic matrix
Cause if you have higher score than the others with a non meta class you can likely play the game at least as well as them if not better
lilac stag
I wouldn’t invite a rogue unless I knew them. 
hushed roost
real
slate lantern
https://raider.io/characters/eu/draenor/Kjellk%C3%A5re
can someone pls check wa...
droptimizer has a profession selector to show youi the best upgrade
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/droptimizer
lilac stag
We passed on a 3400 Havoc for a 3100 Lock for a 12 ara. WTF are you applying to our 12 Mr havoc. Do not trust you one bit.
acoustic matrix
Arcane is giga meta though despite not bringing much in my keys
lilac stag
Lust
acoustic matrix
They don't even top damage on bosses and they get stomped on the overall
slate lantern
when my coup is up and i'm entering a little burst, i just backstab no matter if...
i think in that scenario yes youd rather waste a proc of ub than spam multiple shurikens
placid elk
droptimizer has a profession selector to show youi the best upgrade
https://www....
is there a way to add embelishments to droptimizer?
charred kestrel
arcane is only that low because nobody invites lfg mages because they are all bad
lilac stag
is there a way to add embelishments to droptimizer?
No. Top gear.
hushed roost
top gear hit the +
lilac stag
they also don’t matter
hushed roost
real;
lilac stag
Pick whatever sounds cool.
lilac stag
I mean yeah Lust + Int buff
No amount of int is helping my warrior
acoustic matrix
It's helping your healer
charred kestrel
or the BM hutner lol
lilac stag
interrupting helps my healer more.
charred kestrel
maybe itll help me spell tho?
acoustic matrix
But mage warrior is not a good comp anyway lol
Unless it's war tank then it makes sense
lilac stag
they’re just weekly fills so it doesn’t matter.
It makes sense because I am the warrior and we need lust so first come that doesn’t look like shit with lust wins.
acoustic matrix
I'd rather take a hunt then
placid elk
what have i done
polar vessel
i think in that scenario yes youd rather waste a proc of ub than spam multiple s...
thanks
lilac stag
what have i done <:dead:932888396316155934>
Something stupid for .15% dps
acoustic matrix
Everyone and their grandma is playing hunt these days
Well can't blame them with current tuning
placid elk
not quite stupid, i just swapped from assa and i want to resim all my gear and stuff
at least its patchwerk, if it was dslice i would've gone to bed
slate lantern
not quite stupid, i just swapped from assa and i want to resim all my gear and s...
your assa embellishments are fine
whatever they use these days
lilac stag
not quite stupid, i just swapped from assa and i want to resim all my gear and s...
Focusing Lense
You’re welcome
slate lantern
i dont even have to check cause they dont matter
acoustic matrix
Aren't embelishment a shitty dps gain anyway ?
lilac stag
crit mastery
That’s fine for sub
placid elk
i got shit gear anyway hero tier
lilac stag
just avoid haste
lilac stag
you will have some haste
placid elk
even sub loves this ring for some reason
lilac stag
1 gem and 1 tier
slate lantern
i miss the flame cap and thorn boots from df
nah shitty embellishments is the way
dont want them to make or break things
placid elk
i agree in a way, but those had their charm, felt a bit more rpg-ish
vale pine
S-Tier spec in M+ btw <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
don't think we are s even anymore
still good tho
thanks to trinkets
lilac pendant
tierboots are good right?
placid elk
704 champ lilly btw
lilac pendant
is it worth to sock different gems colors for the blasphemite?
vale pine
not rly
placid elk
better question is it worth to socket blasphemite at all?
placid elk
i saw ppl playing without it
sour sun
damn, sim is telling me nothin will be an upgrade from 6/6 hero pacemaker 8/8 vet prism except upgrading either the prism or pace xd
lilac stag
don't think we are s even anymore
turbid edge
even sub loves this ring for some reason
Over what? U comparing to a vers/mast ring for sims?
turbid edge
What's "high keys" show?
lilac stag
What's "high keys" show?
That’s up to 20
vale pine
change it to "high keys"
ionic thorn
who cares though it doesn't matter in most keys
the only two things that are basically required in keys are lust and a brez
lilac stag
I’m on mobile. You all can change it. Literally first thing someone sees on that page is sub is s tier.
ionic thorn
optimizing comp won't matter in like 95% of cases
lilac stag
Perception as we’ve talked about many a times in here.
turbid edge
Someones gotta press lust
placid crown
isn't it interesting to take Inevitability when you take planned execution ? Just watching at recommended talents on guide
If you have both, i guess planned execution lasts longer ?
turbid edge
Here's high keys
shrewd lantern
What cursed build doesnt take inev
placid crown
north schooner
Here's high keys
outlaw better than hunter specs confirmed 
shrewd lantern
What kind of cooked build
dusk stone
lilac stag
Here's high keys
Oh noes. Only top of a
shrewd lantern
If you play tea as sub you dont shower
placid crown
What kind of cooked build
i mean wowhead guide by fuu
lilac stag
Still fits my narrative of LOL no one plays sub even when it’s meta
dusk stone
Oh noes. Only top of a
the difference is 30 io as well
turbid edge
Oh noes. Only top of a
It was just stated that sub isn't in S anymore. That's all. And it's true for high keys
dusk stone
sub is literally tankier than dk
shrewd lantern
no it aint
dusk stone
you actually end up so tank healers get confused and think they dont have to heal you
i look at my hps and dtps and im always above the dk in % mitigated and healed
turbid edge
sub is literally tankier than dk
Hahaha good one
dusk stone
idk man in what way is dk tankier its possible im only in 14/15's but i never see them outliving me
turbid edge
AMS ignores mechanics bro
summer berry
does anyone have damage profile from m+? I wonder how it should look like, im first day in learning sub and its looking like this so far, eco +11
dusk stone
i guess
its still not less damage taken or more healed
unless this is a 16's+ thing
turbid edge
Their kit is just more survivability than rogue, even if u have 25% vers.
astral axle
that class is invulnerable
turbid edge
It's just a fact
dusk stone
this has been a recurring thing tho
astral axle
lotta bad players out there
dusk stone
it might change in 16's or something but i'm not taking more damage or healing less
astral axle
I'm not saying sub isn't alright at living or anything but DKs are crazy tanky
shrewd lantern
because good dks dont pug
dusk stone
this is actually closer than usual as well
i dont think i've actually seen a key where this wasn't true
shrewd lantern
fotm dks
astral axle
dusk stone
over 54 14's or so
swift coral
just sim dungeon slice
Is the apl for it well maintained?
steel jolt
It’s the only one rogue uses for AOE
shrewd lantern
”chat is the dk in my group a potato”
astral axle
yeah good point and you are doing the hardest keys in the game 
which deal the most sustained damage
and require people to use their kit or brick
dusk stone
i did say it might change in 16's
but what am i suppose to do with data y'know if its not telling me a thing
dusk stone
54 of them lol
astral axle
How many 16s
do you think were completed
since you started doing 16s
How many keys above 12 do you think are completed?
shrewd lantern
its open world experiences
kind of like how i gank any male belf players
because i know they gonna die in 5 gcds max
astral axle
and to be clear I'm not arguing like your experiences or whatever didn't happen haha
But the thought that doing 54 keys and some DKs you've had didn't use their kit to take less damage or whatever and therefore DK and sub rogue is similar survivability
is pretty limited in methodology to reach that conclusion no?
acoustic matrix
How many keys above 12 do you think are completed?
many ? 12s are really easy this season
16 is where I saw a big jump in difficulty
Pretty much anyone remotely trying and decent at the game can get 3300
astral axle
yea that's not really my point
royal iron
is dungeon slice fine to sim sub rogue? currently playing as an alt
astral axle
ya
acoustic matrix
is dungeon slice fine to sim sub rogue? currently playing as an alt
this discord will tell you ye but I'd also advise to run patchwerk solo and 5-8 targets too to get a good picture
Cause i've got some mixed results in dslice
royal iron
ok, thank you
placid elk
!prism
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
hexed tundra
hey guys what the bug about sub rogue?
dusk stone
How many 16s
i mean ok lets say your right, at what level should i see this reverse itself though
charred kestrel
hey guys what the bug about sub rogue?
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
astral axle
Why would I know that?
charred kestrel
honestly dmg taken isnt a super great way to judge between rogues and DKs.
DKs can facetank things that will 1 shot a rogue
zinc dagger
Hey guys!
If I have a look to several logs I was wondering why some sub player just using a handful of BP the whole dungeon (I watched +15/+16) and do a lot of damage via Nimble Flurry.
I thought we are using BP at 4+ targets?
shrewd lantern
Probably havoc or arcane comp
tired dome
Is the rule still 30 seconds on holding CDs with 4 pc, or can you send a Dance with like 20-25 seconds?
charred kestrel
Hey guys!
If I have a look to several logs I was wondering why some sub player ...
woul dhave to look at group comp, pull size. mobs n pack and such.
zinc dagger
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FQLd7HqGADytNJKM?fight=43&type=damage-done&source=1020
I can't imagin that they did just small pulls in a Eco-Dome 16
just 12 BP^^
shrewd lantern
double dh comp
karmic harbor
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FQLd7HqGADytNJKM?fight=43&type=damage-done&...
why are you looking at people doing 16s
north schooner
@vale pine any chance we're getting an updated raid buff table on your sim sheet?
placid elk
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
placid elk
with a 30% chance yeah
zinc dagger
why are you looking at people doing 16s
why not?
karmic harbor
why not?
not going to be the best players and you can still time those keys playing sub optimally
vast tusk
does anyone know if wow analyser can analyse combat logs from delves or dummies?
placid elk
__Subtlety Macros:__
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together becaus...
any macro for lilly and prism + blades in 1 button? i guess not but maybe there's a tech somewhere
karmic harbor
any macro for lilly and prism + blades in 1 button? i guess not but maybe there'...
no
turbid edge
any macro for lilly and prism + blades in 1 button? i guess not but maybe there'...
Prism basically has no cd so any macro would prioritize whatever is up and first in the macro
placid elk
yeah it would work well if i had araz since thats 2 min and if i put it first i can bind it to blades and cycle between them, but lilly at 1.5 will always be used with blades, unless i press prism manually before blades
dusty junco
I have a question
why do we use backstab after we use shadow dance? or before that
is there a buff that we get or smth?
placid elk
because of premeditation
and a stack of dance macabre
every step is explained in the wowhead guide
lilac pendant
any way to avoid camera spin with shadowstep?
prtiest has it kinda so i was wondering
lofty path
Be in melee range before you press it
The camera snap comes from the teleport putting you behind the boss
frigid ingot
!log
heady kestrel
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
karmic harbor
Do you have it talented
noble shale
yeah haha
shrewd lantern
they might have neural silencer
tired dome
Is the rule still 30 seconds on holding CDs with 4 pc, or can you send a Dance with like 20-25 seconds?
hazy breach
Its not a hard rule
But the 4p does not affect it much
Also generally all recommendations are made assuming you have the 4p
tired dome
Okay, was just wondering if it changed, since coup seems to give a ton of CDR to Dance
mental dune
would someone be able to explain why forge + prism isso much more popular in raid and m+ than prism + one of the various good equips
shocked to see how popular it is
its been simming lower for me
native zodiac
mostly just to pad on adds/for dmg amps
hazy breach
Droptimizer often gets a stroke when doing double on-uses
Make sure youre simming top gear
frigid ingot
would someone be able to explain why forge + prism isso much more popular in rai...
forge+prism sims lower for me. Dunno if it s better than what i have.
hazy breach
Theyre usually pretty much the same as passives on ST sims
frigid ingot
The trinket from dawn + prism sims better than Prism + Araz for me.
Are they using double on-use for AOE packs?
mental dune
ahhhhhhh ok the droptimizer comment probably explains a lot
now need to start telling my rl that the wowaudit numbers are iffy lmao
flint parrot
@hazy breach sir do you have a wa to track current holy paladin's blessing? to know when he have autumn and track it
mental dune
n then forge pulls ahead in aoe because you dont really care to do more damage between cds?
obtuse shard
For p3 dim, Do I just macro /target dimmy shadowstep to get to the boss quick?
hazy breach
Idk if you want to, doesnt really matter that much
Making sure you have coup, supercharger and some shadow technique stacks coming down is way more impactful
obtuse shard
I see, thank you
halcyon pendant
Assuming 704 Netherprism, would a 704 Araz trinket be better than a 723 Anthena on Nexus/Dimensius/M+? Is there a way i can sims that?
vast tusk
does anyone know why sometimes rupture procs for 40+ seconds but sometimes 50+ seconds even when I have maxed combo points and 2 supercharged ones?
halcyon pendant
does anyone know why sometimes rupture procs for 40+ seconds but sometimes 50+ s...
Pandemic? (do you already have a rupture applied?)
vast tusk
now that you mention it, maybe the top up one makes it 50+ seconds
is there a passive for this that I didn't know about?
halcyon pendant
is there a passive for this that I didn't know about?
Pandemic is in wow base code, and not really explained anywhere. Some ability adds up if refresh too early (to a certain amount)
wicked joltBOT
Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs
tribal blade
Assuming 704 Netherprism, would a 704 Araz trinket be better than a 723 Anthena ...
i'm in the exact same situation, honestly no idea
hazy breach
I would say antenna, especially if your forge is 20 ilvls lower, because most guilds now are aiming to kill the boss before 3 min in p3
tribal blade
apparently the estimated miss rate is ~30% on those bosses, but you can't factor in the amps
hazy breach
And you generally end up stopping dps in all the other phases
Once you get comfortable
halcyon pendant
I would say antenna, especially if your forge is 20 ilvls lower, because most gu...
That was my thought process too! thank you!
vast tusk
Also I got my first combat log. Is this okay or bad "44.4% of your Shadow Dance casts were good." "60.0% of your Symbols of Death casts were good." "66.7% of your Rupture casts were good." What do you guys make of this?
alpine wraith
yea dont try that one
azure thicket
oh uh any advice for killing the phaseblades on myth soulbinder?
is it worth hard swapping to one, holding cd's or just trying to cleave off boss?
cerulean canyon
hello sub rogues.... I'm trying to compare my logs to others. and one of the biggest differences i'm seeing is the amount of Nimble Flurry I have compared to most others. (I'm on the low side) I think I'm not understanding how the to proc Nimble Flurry more?
hazy breach
oh uh any advice for killing the phaseblades on myth soulbinder?
Idk what you mean, damage to the small orbs? The big echo add that spawns? The pillars in intermission?
spice matrix
phaseblades are on Soulbinder if im not mistaken not Araz
hazy breach
Yeah
azure thicket
sorry i think i meant soulbinder yeah
surreal cedar
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
azure thicket
no that's a great answer
worldly remnant
They should die with cleave, maybe first big add set has some still up if your DPS is low when the boss moves
azure thicket
we got it to 30% to skip last add phase but heals fell behind due to how long they lived
steady dune
Whats the best comp for M+ with a rogue? Im assuming shammy and druid, but would a monk or warrior tank be better?
azure thicket
ye we have like 3 warlocks and no monks rn thanks though
hazy breach
In terms of buffs warrior is the best, followed by shaman and monk
worldly remnant
They will hurt the tanks if left up, you might need to switch if they are living too long
steady dune
so is War tank, monk healer, balence druid, ele shammy just goated?
but i guess the casters wouldnt be very happy about it lol
steady dune
Im trying to push up 15s, so just trying to optimize my chance of sucess
maybe just always having a frost dk
lucid jackal
@tepid trellis found ur fat ass in my garbage
tribal blade
so is War tank, monk healer, balence druid, ele shammy just goated?
there's no decent way to get monk buff unless you run with a brew
and running with brews is a bit weird
tepid trellis
<@83652604344664064> found ur fat ass in my garbage
Ayo mind your own business
tribal blade
wispy crystal
for soulbinder we save sTec for when the adds spawn right? and then just send the sTec for max dam?
fossil frost
is anyone able to take a look at a log rq and tell me wtf im doing wrong in raid. I feel like I understand the spec and I blast in M+ ending like 8M overall, but in raid im sucking
open vortex
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
fossil frost
got it - anything else major?
fossil frost
ah, yeah FoK reflexes since that used to be lower energy in sin over mut. Anything else or is that pretty much it?
brisk creek
how does m+ netherprism work? they put key in, i zone out, dungeon starts, i zone back in? or what
the key to maintain 18+stack **
tribal blade
!wa
wicked joltBOT
brisk creek
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
high herald
how does m+ netherprism work? they put key in, i zone out, dungeon starts, i zon...
been trying to figure that out for a while
i tried letting them start the key and then running out until until dome goes away
didn't seem to work
dusk stone
We dont talk about that
warped ferry
it true that you can start a dungeon with full prism stacks?
unborn geyser
can someone please have a look at my opener is gambit and let me know if im doing something wrong 🙁
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hbDMJwaGdXtNVKz1?fight=last&type=damage-done&view=timeline&source=1&start=5359251&end=5391957
void condor
Hello all, i have been trying to understand the multi target "rotation" on wowhead but im being left so confused, it doesnt mention Nimble Flurry at all. I would've thought if i have stacks of flawless form then i should be using eviscerate instead of black powder up to 8 targets no?
dense mountain
Hello all, i have been trying to understand the multi target "rotation" on wowhe...
!aoe
wicked joltBOT
General Gist of the Aoe rotation
- At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
- At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
- Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
tepid trellis
what is a "regular" eviscerate? or just not coup de grace?
Just means use bp over evis. Still use coup whenever its ready
void condor
gotcha, awesome thank you both!
funny to think i have been doing aoe completely wrong this whole time and still topping my M+ groups 🙃
austere summit
!MACRO
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
steel jolt
shrewd lantern
>pop 18 stack prism
>Healer dies
That’s when you spam ping the corpse