subtlety

[limpid sage]

Naruto type shi

A trillion shadowclones

[short radish]

(that was a joke april fools mage buff btw)

[graceful osprey]

Blizzard please

[swift tinsel]

the fact kyveza's clones are called shadow clones like ours but look cooler and also visible

is criminal

[limpid sage]

Shadow blades having a shadow after image visual would be cool

[keen dome]

true and real

[graceful osprey]

Sometimes I wish they actually add some April fools things into the game for like a week but only works in open world or something

[neon frigate]

Is macro-ing shadow dance with symbols bad?

[short radish]

meanwhile rogues have to pick up our knives again!

even in april fools posts there's mage bias

[swift tinsel]

lol are those April Fools

[short radish]

yes

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Patch_4.1.11_(Evil_Patch_Notes)

these were the ones in cata

[graceful osprey]

I like pickpocket, slight of hand and double stealth

[short radish]

i wish we got the updated cheapshot animation

[neon frigate]

Guys Quick question, should I macro shadow dance with symbols or is that bad?

[short radish]

bad

unless you have separate bind

included

[neon frigate]

I have separate symbols button as well

[limpid sage]

I can’t imagine a world where it’s not just easier playing with them not bound

[short radish]

do you have separate dance button

[short radish]

there's some opener macro tech

[wispy crystal]

hi friends, noticed all the top rogues running cold blood in M+ according to murlok.io?

tried it over thistle tea, and feel so energy starved. should i just stick with vigor + thistle tea?

[limpid sage]

What tech

[short radish]

sure, play either/or. it doesn't matter and is personal preference

[limpid sage]

I am not in the know

[short radish]

#subtlety message

read from there

glhf

[warm marlin]

I think talk of the macro should be relatively infrequent given that it’s more likely to cause new people to make mistakes

It really is a cringe higher level optimization

[short radish]

fair

[swift tinsel]

can always throw it into the tc channel for people

[short radish]

it is rather cringe

[swift tinsel]

since that's not a place people frequent

unless they're more into find that kind of stuff

[short radish]

i think though it does make the opener a bit easier

[limpid sage]

How often does it happen

[short radish]

its 2 less buttons to press

[swift tinsel]

bc you're only using it for the 2nd dance aren't you

[limpid sage]

I typically use backstab before symbols as well, so I should be good no?

Rotten gaming 😎

[hazy breach]

@steep loom Add it here

And you just sim it

[limpid sage]

Something I’ve considered is putting sectec on sblades

Is this stupid

[steep loom]

ily

[hazy breach]

No need to have anything extra for double on-use

[limpid sage]

Don’t we always want first global in sblades to be sectec?

[hazy breach]

Its fine

[limpid sage]

Aight imma do it

[marsh path]

!macro

[lilac pendant]

[karmic harbor]

from the wowhead guide

[swift tinsel]

I still cast blades during the global after sectech out of habit

[wispy crystal]

do we put 1/2 points into Finality? or The Rotten for M+?

15% seems huge dam though

especially if it buffs coup

[lucid jackal]

It doesn't

You can take either. same idea as tea vs cb

[swift tinsel]

ye its bugged

[lucid jackal]

Rotten is more aoe finality is more ST

people like the rotten because its consistent at applying FW to packs

But ppl overetsimate how valuable that is

[wispy crystal]

oh so Rotten helps apply FW to packs?

[short radish]

wooooo shuriken storm first global in dance

[lucid jackal]

Thats where a lot of its value in aoe is, yes

[gaunt bluff]

what are the specific pros and cons to running cb instead of thistle in high m+?
i assume more prio dmg?

[short radish]

more ST

[tepid trellis]

finality is more AoE

[gaunt bluff]

i played thistle the entire time but im thinking of giving it a shot in groups where im playing with a frost dk or destro warlock etc

[short radish]

and bigger guaranteed number make my neurons in brain light up

[tepid trellis]

its bugged af with Blackpowder

[hazy breach]

Cb is more prio and ST
Tea is more aoe and easier to feint without fucking yourself over

[tepid trellis]

allways buffs shadowed BP for some reason

[gaunt bluff]

yea true the feint spam is so good ..

[short radish]

gets the endorphins flowing ya know

[gaunt bluff]

btw another question about finality to see if im understanding the tooltip right, in AoE if for example im spamming black powder until i get my first coup then i use coup, finality resets?

[lucid jackal]

Just pretend finality doesn't exist

[swift tinsel]

you get a buff after casting those spenders

which is consumed the next time you cast them

but yeah you don't pay attention to it

[gaunt bluff]

thats what i do im just curious how it works

[tepid trellis]

its split into 3 different sections

evis
bp
rupture

[lucid jackal]

Whenever you cast x finisher, it buffs the next x finisher

That's all it does

[swift tinsel]

so conceptually it buffs every other cast of each spender

[tepid trellis]

and it just cycles

[lucid jackal]

Each finisher is a unique buff

[tepid trellis]

0-15-0-15-0-15

on each individual one

[gaunt bluff]

ahh alright

[tepid trellis]

when you press one

so if you rupture

[gaunt bluff]

i assumed its like

0 - 15 15 15 15

[tepid trellis]

next rupture is 15% stronger

if you rupture again

next on is 0%

[gaunt bluff]

thanks

[tepid trellis]

just cycles that individually on all of them

[hazy breach]

But its a bit bugged. So for BP its more like 5 - 15 - 5 -15 -5 -15
And for coup (which uses the eviscerate one) its more like 0 - 0.375 - 0 - 0.375

[topaz egret]

👄 👅 ❤️

[tidal marsh]

so true bestie

[brave harbor]

Hi I have a question. I am doing sectech into shadowblades before the shadows hit the target. Is this bad?

Or good?

[warm marlin]

It’s a good idea I will put an actual writeup in the TC channel later

Can just refer to that

[short radish]

blessed bingus

[short radish]

its fine

the sblade after sectech press is old min/max tech that isnt important anymore

[granite river]

what changed

[short radish]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[swift tinsel]

blades affects sectech now

[short radish]

apparently neutral now or something

[swift tinsel]

it didn't before

[short radish]

oh

there ya go

woooooo rogue bug fixes

[granite river]

i thought the blades after sec tech was because you got more globals in blades

and sec tech animation takes a global or something

[swift tinsel]

yea that was more important previous when clones didn't benefit

[granite river]

ok word goodlook

could anyone help me with a quick log review? would be quick

[short radish]

is it m+?

[granite river]

nah araz

[short radish]

sure

i'll look for 2 minutes

no more.

[granite river]

sweet

[short radish]

nono

dont dm

just link it here

in !log

[granite river]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3NwmWLd46HpJ27zM?fight=42&type=damage-done

i dont have much sub experience, first thing i noticed is nimble flurry dam is like half other logs, if you got any insight

[brave harbor]

read guides man

all wrong

[short radish]

i think you start your flag too late

[brave harbor]

!guide

[short radish]

most people are sending between 0:22 to 0:24

youre sending at 0:28

[granite river]

bro i read guides

[short radish]

which means your cbsectech is likely not hitting the adds since theyre already dead

[brave harbor]

oh this is araz

mb

[short radish]

you also missed a flag cast

[queen kraken]

Im sending on 19-21 cuz my guild is nuking them so much

[gaunt bluff]

i send at :21 and some pulls my 2nd sectec might still somehow be late or hit mobs at 20-10%

😎

[short radish]

if youre killing at 7min

you casted flag at 3 then at 6

acutally im not sure if thats a waste

[queen kraken]

Ye my first doesnt hit adds sadly but I figured rather get Cb one in

[short radish]

wait no it is

you should get it at 5:10 and then again at 6:50

[gaunt bluff]

for me absolutely impossible to hit first in adds

[granite river]

could be we were in intermission and i didnt want to send but that seems like a huge gap

[gaunt bluff]

since two sub in a raid

and other ppl hitting adds too

[queen kraken]

Isnt the First amp around 3:20-3:40?

[short radish]

yeah it's fine up till there

[gaunt bluff]

i hate fights like this where u need to get ur whole raid on board to get a good log

[short radish]

but then he holds for next amp (i assume)

[lethal lark]

Is there an addon to track time of an encounter?

[short radish]

though that might be fine also

[granite river]

yeah think i did

[short radish]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XRZv4aHCpQw3mjt9#fight=8&source=21

this chinese log also casts at 3:xx and 6:xx

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/b1Ykg2yAvBHhMmVc?fight=16&source=81

here's a non chinese log because im racist

[queen kraken]

😂😂😂

[short radish]

they do sneaky stuff over there

and absolutely cringe logs

like the RL makes everyone not pad on adds

so he's the only one who does damage to them

[queen kraken]

I was about to get a decent frac one but on Break my shs Send me into walljail

[granite river]

my nimbleflurry dam super low, is that a positioning angle you think ?

[short radish]

probably

[queen kraken]

So i died in my last cdset

😂

[short radish]

but i think you're also not casting dances at right times

[gaunt bluff]

ok but tbf in the non chinese one that guy had enough room to damage

with all the other people parsing 1-10

[queen kraken]

Ye

[plush roost]

You can just shadowstep the knockback once it starts pushing you, still breaks walls

[remote shuttle]

There Is an option in mrt to show combat timer

[short radish]

oh i assume youre not doing knockback strat?

[queen kraken]

I do but it send me diagonal in between Walls

[granite river]

yeah we stopped because the puddle thing

[short radish]

lmao yeah gl bro

[plush roost]

Oh very weirdge

[queen kraken]

Ye

[gaunt bluff]

wait whats wrong with shadowstepping the knockback

what puddle

[queen kraken]

I couldnt even get out

[granite river]

i think this is two diff convos

[queen kraken]

They talk araz me about frac

[gaunt bluff]

ohhhh sorry

ur right

[granite river]

thanks for the looks

[plush roost]

Profile pic relevant

[short radish]

yeah im just going to assume that the adds are dying too quickly for you to do damage to them

i mean your boss dps is also kinda low

[queen kraken]

Want my Pic between all dem Walls? 😂

[short radish]

but /shrug

mighit also be because 7min kill

[rancid verge]

is it common for yall to get 100% slowed on pack 8 here, after halkias?

[granite river]

my nimble flurry mad low, malarki flurry doing 2.4 mil dps mine is like 1.2

[rancid verge]

if so, how do you handle it if cloak doesnt work

[gaunt bluff]

dwarf racial

[rancid verge]

im a filthy belf

any other ideas

[gaunt bluff]

tell ur healer to step up i guess

[granite river]

is nimble flurry area like a frontal cone ?

[queen kraken]

Distancin or shs team

[short radish]

the clones might have been out of your sblade buff here

[rancid verge]

its dispellable?

[gaunt bluff]

iirc it is

[short radish]

im pretty sure its defs out of your dance cast here

[gaunt bluff]

i never really have that issue cus of dwarf personally

[plush roost]

Tell your tank to not pull both sets of anklebiters cause the dot will kill you anyway on a high key

[karmic harbor]

you arent getting all the gcds inside dance

[gaunt bluff]

its around u

even behind u

i had that figured out on araz as well

[granite river]

oh shit thats good to know

[gaunt bluff]

cus i was sitting out of range sometimes trying to hit the cone 😎

[granite river]

consistently ?

[wispy crystal]

actually why is Rotten more AOE? i keep thinking its more ST?

[lethal lark]

Is there a resource that describes where to start cooldown sequences for raid bosses?

[granite river]

llorgs.com

[short radish]

https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/forgeweaver-araz?difficulty=mythic

tick things as needed

[gaunt bluff]

actually setting up a timer for my flag on araz helped me so much in being consistent

cus i kept changing that shit

[short radish]

if you're as brain dead as me

you can even put when to press symbols and dance

normal people would just put flag timings in though

[gaunt bluff]

nah i just put the first flag to remind myself to always send at 21

if i sent any later adds are dead for my cb sectec

and im off the meters until amp phase

[alpine wraith]

we began doing the cursed strat of putting adds behind the portal

so never again will i parse

[karmic harbor]

same

[warm marlin]

It is guy mixed them up

Finality more aoe rotten more st

[karmic harbor]

some you do some you only get 6/8

[lucid jackal]

How is that possible

What changed this season to last

[karmic harbor]

also using bp on that fight might be illegal

[lucid jackal]

Last season we played finality ST

[warm marlin]

Finality is bugged with coup

It barely buffs it

[lucid jackal]

Ah

I guess its just more coups less finality value

[warm marlin]

BP is positively bugged with finality

So BP big finality buff coup small, rotten more st

[wispy crystal]

so TLDR: use The Rotten over Finality?

[warm marlin]

Ye

The coup bug also wasn’t in sims last season

[granite river]

kk ty

[warm marlin]

I think Eleem went back and it was like 0.2% ahead instead of 0.7-1 (for last season with bug implemented)

Basically coup is 3 eviscerates combined, with the 3rd being double the damage of the first 2, and finality will only ever buff one of the first 2

so it’s quite bad with coup

[short radish]

How do you always manage to reply whenever you're mentioned even when you're not pinged

Actually impressive

[lucid jackal]

[elfin haven]

Hello guys! I am sorry to bother you, but I am being harassed by my guild leader, that he needs me to use Cloak on both soaks on mythic Araz. But they are 45 seconds apart.. am I something missing?

[edgy zenith]

why is using max colors for pri stat gem better than using only one gem for me, but sims BiS is using only one? we starting the sandbagging or?

[gloomy loom]

!cbug

[edgy zenith]

you cloak 2 and 3

they aren't 45s apart

[honest saddle]

Raidbots doesnt use the correct gems and wont use one of each color very well in my experience

[edgy zenith]

like gem sims on raidbots are bad? never heard of that before

[wild hornet]

aura

[vital sage]

by any chance anyone has

a pre symbols reminder weak aura ❤️

[steel jolt]

you have to check a box to make it use unique gems

[honest saddle]

It just doesnt do a good job of simming one of each color. If you put one of each color on, it does sim better in most cases though

[short radish]

Im in bed. @me in 12 hours if no one links one

[warm marlin]

I thought this was weird too not sure how fuu made the bis thing since he certainly knows more about raidbots than I do but any way I could compare same color the 4+ colors thing was always better

[queen kraken]

Good night sire

[short radish]

Gnite

[edgy zenith]

yeah, I'm getting like 0.3% better:

which ain't nothing

[next condor]

!mistakes

[honest saddle]

Fuu is really smart and does a great job but last tier the max dps sub sim didnt have a bracer gem even though it was possible to have one. Sometimes it isn't perfect.

[edgy zenith]

i did notice that lmao

yeah fuu goat

was just wondering

ty

[brisk onyx]

what is it?

[warm marlin]

Shadowed finisher BP always benefits from finality

[spice matrix]

[warm marlin]

So instead of it alternating 0-15-0-15 it’s 15-5-15-5

[brisk onyx]

[warm marlin]

Or well some math number around there

armor and stuff

[brisk onyx]

cool

[hazy breach]

So what happens is that you get the buff once you press BP right

But shadowed BP has a very very very short travel time

[vital sage]

thanks bro

[prime raft]

playing sub in mop and retail getting double playtime

[hazy breach]

But theyve designed it to benefit from finality anyway if BP is cast while its up

[dire crater]

!coup

[hazy breach]

So either it benefits from the cast, or the buff gets to go up before the shadowed part hits

Either way the shadowed part is always buffed

[honest saddle]

What does the enchant orb in eco dome aldani do. You click it and it channels and pops in that little outside room

[blissful scroll]

What's the stat graphics command again? !stat ?

[vale pine]

if you have a better profile or upgrades, let me know so i can put them on the sheet

[blissful scroll]

!stats

[hazy breach]

Bot seems dead atm so doesnt matter

[blissful scroll]

Shame

[hazy breach]

But its !gear

you can search the channel for it

[glass rune]

!fuu

[edgy zenith]

idk about the BiS profile, was just simming for my character

[vale pine]

bot is in maintainance, the host is sadly down :/

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ocean surge]

i got some questions about sub and its CD's if anyone can be of assistance. i been wanting to peek at it more coming from Assassination

[edgy zenith]

read the guides on wowhead/icyveins/etc. will be your best resource early on

watch videos too

[plain void]

which sim setting are we supposed to use for m+?

[edgy zenith]

post random questions about the rotation in here, someone will more than likely answer

[ocean surge]

gotcha, tried just hopping in and testing rotation but felt once Shadow Dance and Symbol of Death are out of charges the DPS just drops dramatically

[edgy zenith]

you do less than tank damage outisde of dance/symbols

this is normal

[ocean surge]

so it only peaks when you have dance/symbols?

[edgy zenith]

shadow blades/flag mostly

but a little better during dance/symbols, yes

[gaunt bluff]

do u know if the sims account for that?

finality was simming similar or better for me than rotten so i thought id just go finality since im not minmaxxing rotten

[warm marlin]

Yes they do

[gaunt bluff]

ok good

[cunning notch]

basic rules that help alot

• hold on cooldows when flag or blades is on 20 seconds
• do not press Coup when you are not inside dance
• BP at 4+ targets
• do the St opener corectly and your damage will be good even in packs, if you are more confortable with it swap Evic with BP ( if pack is big )

[soft kayak]

!prism

[hexed rover]

!macro

[hearty flint]

Dont use coup when not in dance?

Why?

[glass echo]

!macro

anyone have a Shadowdance macro that uses symb but spamable :/

[vale pine]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[prisma minnow]

When would u send cursed stone idol?

right before shadow blades?

the cast time is awkward so have to ask

I have it 723

[hearty flint]

ive came to ask literally the same thing

its awkward

u can use it while running into the pull to make it easier i guess

[prisma minnow]

I have that and netherprism

[hearty flint]

i hate this trinket but it sims way better than anything else i have

[prisma minnow]

ye

[vale pine]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[glass echo]

For M+ do sub run sim Dslice ?

[tiny mauve]

I would send it before flag or right after flag, you can send it early cause you won't need the crit buff for your 2nd secret tech in shadow blades cause of cold blood

[serene elk]

what would you advise me to use my last 60 gildeds on for this week (i can get prism to 710 and have 30 spare, or upgrade bracers to 720), nexus king mythic progresion purpose

[alpine wraith]

prism seems like the best choice yes

[lilac stag]

Sim angle

[serene elk]

idk how a 5min sim reflects on naxus

[serene elk]

ye but i have 30 spare then

[alpine wraith]

well not much you can do without inting one thing tho that belt should be worse than DISC

usually we replace DISC with a 720 or so belt

[serene elk]

my sims said this

[alpine wraith]

did you sim with critical chain

[serene elk]

is mastery now

alrdy on it chief

[alpine wraith]

i very doubt a 704 beats it

[warm marlin]

723 belt was a 0.1% upgrade for my gearset

[alpine wraith]

it was 0,1% worse for me XD

only got better when i geared for more crit

but i aint no critter

[serene elk]

12240 crit nuff?

[alpine wraith]

just sim it tbh we may have way diff gearsets

[serene elk]

i just miss db finger to be bis??

-double loom dagger and 0 nexus

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2eMeH9uEoewvRrRRiVyqf4

Holy moly

[plush roost]

Bro i have a socketed nexus king belt at 710 and plexxus ring at 710 and it beat my disc belt by .2%

Lets go

!!

[warm marlin]

I still suspect this is due to having too much crit ngl

Delve belt goes brazy

[plush roost]

Yeah ik but i cant really replace anything atm

I wonder if disc belt is better for nk anyway

If im getting a proc on the burn

[bright sundial]

question guys so we send 2 dances and 2 symbols in blades then 1 symbol out then save 2 for next blades?

[worthy harbor]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[lilac stag]

It’s likely going to show prism as the route to go, but it will give you a basic glimpse at the difference to help in gearing choices. Exactly what a sim should be used for.

[late elm]

guys stupid question. Should create macro for Coup De grace i mean /cast Coup De grace and /cast Eviscarate?

[slate lantern]

it auto switches to coup when its ready

evis does

[swift coral]

is there a way to macro 2 on use trinkets together and guarantee which 1 happens first? (e.g. idol+netherprism)

[cosmic crypt]

i think there's a 20s cd between on use trinkets

[vale osprey]

First slot would happen first, but if you mean next time you pressed it, maybe a cast sequence with a long reset time

(by first slot I mean, whichever line is first in the macro)

[zenith cloud]

I’m looking at switching from ass to sub, if I stand around an attack a target dummy for 5min, should I be able to do the same dps as my sim?

Right now I’m about 25% below my sim. I imagine it’s me and my rotation but trying to track things down.

[lilac stag]

/use 13
/use 14

However. This is not recommended. If you hold 13 past the reset of it (say 2 minutes) and you have prism at 18, it’s going to not send prism and instead will send the other trinket

[distant sage]

should i be sending prism on each shadowblade(macro) or using it manualy when it stacks up

[lilac stag]

Depends on the fight

It’s a wash in sims

[lilac stag]

You should be close to a target dummy sim

[swift coral]

Exactly what’s I’m trying to game

[lilac stag]

You can leave prism as a separate bind “in case of emergency”

2x needs some thinking

Which is why some don’t want to be arsed with it

[proper rune]

Wow Analyzer is not working right?

Trying to figure out why parses are 50-80% on bosses when i feel like im executing shit nice >.<

[slate lantern]

we dont do that here

[proper rune]

😄

[slate lantern]

you can post a log using the !log command

[proper rune]

!log

[slate lantern]

and people may or may not review it to help find mistakes

[mighty citrus]

on soulhunters mythic, do melee have anything to do with ire soaks?

[proper rune]

Okie i have posted it in there. Feel free to upset me

[plush roost]

Nope melee is literally unstableronaldo

https://tenor.com/view/aaaa-hola-como-andy-martino-dance-gif-18551524

[maiden pilot]

How is that possible? its the first boss, is there a bug?

[hexed rover]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[warm marlin]

Get the frailties, cloak soak hunt solo, maybe group soak sometimes, payphone

[vale osprey]

Blessing of something?

Whichever one gives cdr

[warm marlin]

Autumn

From hpal

[maiden pilot]

ahhh

thanks, i see

[austere spindle]

is there a macro to cast Rupture in a mouseover target, but if there is no mouseover target casts it at the Current target?

[proper slate]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[distant sage]

can we macro neatrherprsim to use it over certan amount of stacks

[sullen hare]

nope!

[vapid pasture]

/cast [@mouseover; exists] Rupture; Rupture

[sullen hare]

^ yep that would work just fine

does a semicolon work there? I usually use a comma [@mouseover, exists]

[gilded ferry]

do we use sectec outside of supercharged?

im watching a stream to understand why im doing less dps but i keep seeing this

[vapid pasture]

yeah it might be a comma actually

[viscid urchin]

whats the number to shoot for on danse macabre? 5? 6?

[austere spindle]

its a comma yes, but thx!

[severe grotto]

Why are some chinese player spending rotten on shuriken storm when APL spend it with Backstab ?

i'm clueless can someone help ?

[void hound]

when do we want blessing of autmn on nexus king?

[sullen hare]

as far as stacks? I don't think we actively track that we just go for the same (or similar) dance rotations

[upbeat sorrel]

In aoe to spread find weakness I would assume

[severe grotto]

But why would the sim not do it tho ?

[slate lantern]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[slate lantern]

@proper rune ^

[lost torrent]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[limpid sage]

Idk but it feels better for me as well

I do Symbols->storm->dance

[night rampart]

id assume to apply fw to everything

[limpid sage]

Ye that’s def the logic behind it

[hazy breach]

Ye storming in dance is definitely not it unless you think the sim is 10000% wrong

[limpid sage]

But I haven’t made it be a gain in the APL except through specifying a specific opening sequence

[hazy breach]

The sod > storm thing is probably good unless you have coup

In which case you'd get the fw during the coups

[limpid sage]

Ya I’ve noticed that I do a bit too many storms when that’s the case as well

[hazy breach]

Most of the gain from the sequence you posted in #1065728795455266888 was from it skipping ruptures (which is good if the fight is exactly 2 min like yours are)

But its still a small gain

But simc is rough

[limpid sage]

Ohhhh does it normally apply rupture to everything first?

Makes sense why it was a gain on 3 targets, despite not getting full combo points for first sectec

[haughty rose]

i applied and got invited to the first group and we killed first 2 after 3 pulls lol

that was surprisingly easy

[tight monolith]

lets go! 😄

[hazy breach]

Ye its usually better

But not if it loses you uptime on flag and blades

Like it would on exactly 120s

[valid vault]

is anyone else getting shadow technique sound bug on nexus king add phase?

[west bough]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[warm marlin]

yes

im not sure what they did

it was fine last week

[candid raven]

Can I shadowstep on fractillus (mythic) when I get the knockback to break the wall or does it not break the wall?

[warm marlin]

now we get there and my ub and sht weakauras are just dying

[acoustic matrix]

I'm pretty sure you are cced and can't shadowstep before hitting the wall

You can shadowstep right after tho

[candid raven]

I can Shadowstep. Idk if it breaks the wall tho

[acoustic matrix]

you can shadowstep during the pushback ?

[warm marlin]

you can, and it does break the wall as long as you wait for the push

[valid vault]

so its an issue with the game and not my wa's being outdated?

[candid raven]

Yes

I am doing it right now

[candid raven]

Okay, ty

[warm marlin]

believe so

i can say it was happening to me a lot on tuesday and wasn't last week

[valid vault]

guess i just deal with it then

hope it doesn't happen in m+ also

[queen plinth]

in a ST fight do i use prism on 9 or 18 stacks

prolly 9 and 18 if dmg amp coming like on loomi?

[acoustic matrix]

I've seen somebody say here that the second coup had a fix +5CP bonus to it so you can use it at 1+ CP. Is that true ?

[hazy breach]

Yes

Thats what coup is, its an eviscerate with +5 cp

[sacred gull]

any WA to remind us to SoD just after wipe in raid ?

[signal moth]

k boys, i got it.. how do i use it kek

[slate lantern]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[signal moth]

macro it to blades?

[slate lantern]

whoops

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[signal moth]

sweet

[lusty epoch]

hey guys, can someone guide me how to make a WA to highlight raid frames when people have a debuff?

I've asked chatgpt, youtube and i can't seem to make it work.

More specifically i want a glow effect on the raid frames of people that have the astral harvest debuff from forgeweaver, to quicker see who i can shadowstep to when i also have the debuff.

[signal moth]

with lily i have to unmacro it and have 2 onuse trinkets i may just delete that lol

[spice matrix]

Had so many pulls last night with no coup procs in my opener during Nexus King. Almost threw my hands up

[sick sand]

is coup or sec tec prio in cds?

[golden harbor]

I usually just take one from the Northern Sky pack, copy it, and change the debuff its looking for.

But the basics are:

Trigger>Exact Spell ID> 1228214 or 1233979

Actions>Check Glow External Element>Glow Action set to Show>Glow Frame Type set to Unit Frame>Glow Type to Pixel Glow>Glow Color checked> Choose a glow color>Border Checked

[lusty epoch]

thx alot i'll try it out!

[tepid trellis]

anywhere in p1

[limpid sage]

How does it apply it? Does it flag and spread ruptures or does it hold everything while spreading them?

[tepid coral]

wtf

So were progging nexus mythic, and all of the sudden im not doing any dmg anymore last 5 pulls

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid coral]

like sub tank dmg

[lilac stag]

repair your gear

or reload

[shrewd lantern]

I feel spoiled having gotten all 3 variants of prism

from main raid

[acoustic matrix]

Is there a benefit to send it at more CP or should I just send at 1+ CP ?

[lilac stag]

just send it

[acoustic matrix]

aight ty

[obtuse shard]

Is there any trick to do dmg in King's Hunger, do people bank coup after sending in platform for it

[brave harbor]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[sick sand]

guys 1st dance is on 1 sec remaining, sec tec with cold blood available, i'm in cds, do I wait for 1st dance to drop then send another and then cb sectec or I try to cb sectec in 1st dance

[limpid sage]

You just send it

Just make sure you dance immediately after it ends, so you still buff the delayed parts

[sick sand]

oh that sd button gonna get spammed a lot then

k ty

[rigid pasture]

can someone please explain to me why I can't parse for sht with a perfect flawless fking rotation

[alpine wraith]

rng gear and likely also kill time

[wraith sphinx]

kill time/trinkets/coup rng

yea

[alpine wraith]

and not many sub parses so not a lot of suckers

[rigid pasture]

can I link logs here

[alpine wraith]

to int and you get higher logs

[vale pine]

also

[alpine wraith]

like i did 5.3m on frac

and it was not even 98

[vale pine]

many of the bosses require you to be able to do damage on adds to parse

[lilac stag]

meanwhile assa blaming parses on too many parses

[vale pine]

if adds just die too fast

rip parse

[alpine wraith]

how does that make sense

[vale pine]

isn't subtlety meta

or is that already over?

[rigid pasture]

I mean my trinkets are surely trash

[lilac stag]

it's assa

[rigid pasture]

good question

[vale pine]

like one thing i can be sure of

[lilac stag]

people will jump off this spec asap. just the nature of it

[rigid pasture]

what was the kill timer for you to do 5.3m on frac bruh

thats like a top 3 log

[alpine wraith]

yea that is the thing there are so few it is not even 98 it is a 96

[rigid pasture]

thats so depressing

[lilac stag]

5.5 king of the hill

[cerulean beacon]

!prekey

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[shrewd lantern]

get the 4 coup opener

with 7 ub

[vale osprey]

Guys if I SS on Fractilus with wall break, can I do it as soon as his knockback animation happens/I start moving or do I physically need my character to hit the wall first?

[twilit matrix]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[devout jackal]

I would try and see what happens.

If anything it'd be better to just shadow step

That way you get in the rhythm of stepping after knockback

[fossil forge]

u can step it it still breaks

[tired dome]

Some people say to only use finishers on 6 CP, are there times when its okay to do 5 CP? or does it always have to be 6+ CP finishers as sub?

[left ledge]

Wait is that true

Does it really still break

I’ve been under the impression you shouldn’t cancel the break knock

[lilac stag]

six except coup

[icy mulch]

Does anyone know what addon exile uses to anchor his damage numbers to the mobs he’s hitting?

[lilac stag]

NameplateSCT will do it, not sure if that's what he's using

[nocturne oriole]

I believe NameplateSCT is what he uses, thus @lilac stag gave you a great option

[lilac stag]

go me

[icy mulch]

thanks

[left ledge]

Im pretty sure this is fake news

[left ledge]

You have to hit the wall

[vale osprey]

No I just did it, you do not

You just have to be knocked by him but can step .1 seconds after that

[left ledge]

Are you sure you still broke properly

I’ve yet to see any clip or vod of it

[vale osprey]

Yes or we'd have died on myth

[left ledge]

I’ll go look at some logs then

Because I’ve either been psyop into less dps

Or something not right with that

[vale osprey]

Doesn't matter I still played it DOGSHIT and greylogged I thought that fight was going to be a lot more dangerous than it was

So was playing way too cautious

[left ledge]

Matters to me I get pretty much every fucking break

[vale osprey]

Also this killtime

[left ledge]

Kinda hard to tell from logs

[fast elbow]

on guide it says to shuriken storm between coup de grace but on top logs i see people do shadowstrike or nothing in between why?

[left ledge]

I guess I’ll try next week on reclear

[tepid trellis]

you jsut need to get yeeted then you can step

[left ledge]

Dude actually?

[tepid trellis]

ive done it everytime

since 1st pull on prog

[left ledge]

I’ve been fucking psyop’d

I’ve been eating the full thing

Look at my fkin frac logs

They’re abysmal

[icy mulch]

Same

[left ledge]

4 kills best 62

Holy

No wonder

[shrewd lantern]

i pretty much step after i get launched

to get into my general spread spot

[left ledge]

Dude

[shrewd lantern]

i was just gonna say if it wiped group

"tested for science"

[left ledge]

That’s why that fight feels so shit to me

I get break and I just fucking mald

Who spread this misinformation

[warm marlin]

including look back to see it broke

[shrewd lantern]

just gotta be careful to not w key too far forward

and accidentally push yourself back into someone elses circle

[left ledge]

IM SLAMMING SHADOWSTEP NEXT TUESDAY

AINT NO WAY IM EATING THAT KNOCKBACK ANYMORE

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah pretty much what i do

step as soon as it does damage to me

[left ledge]

Haha what! You guys don’t eat the knock back and scratch your ass like a lost baboon while waiting to be able to get back in?

[hidden oar]

Why I see people sending Coup de grace even on low cp, it doesnt matter how much cp we have when we cast it?

[left ledge]

Yes it matters you finish at 6+

[hidden oar]

so casting it at 3cp is a mistkae?

[left ledge]

Sending at low cp is a mistake unless you have to send the second one and can’t build combo points for whatever reason

[shrewd lantern]

I'd be impressed if a projectile already launched out

was coded to follow you when you stepped

[left ledge]

You know I didn’t even question it when I was told not to cancel the knock

[shrewd lantern]

i feel it'd make a funny clip if anything

just seeing a rock make a 90 degree turn

[left ledge]

Okay well

I’ll finally get a decent parse on that fight now

[hazy breach]

Sending coup at lower cp is fine

Since its technically +5

[shrewd lantern]

I dont think we ever got told not to cancel knocks

just

"spread with circle"

[hazy breach]

Obviously you prefer bigger cp spend

But better to use it at 3 than to let 4p time out

[left ledge]

^

Mostly an out of dance scenario

Because energy is kinda shit

[fast elbow]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[steel jewel]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[steel jewel]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[steel jewel]

!atro

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[fair plinth]

Any advice on how to properly track the symbols before next Shadow Blades?

[wheat sentinel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xcZCXytuj9kAWvDLqvrYPM I wasn't expecting a heroic belt to beat the titan one. Did I botch something? >_>

Simmed in m+ build, but still

Actually nvm, just realized it had the sword on offhand.

[queen plinth]

could someone check my loomithar raid log https://de.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wY4pq9MTjZdxQKvf?fight=13&type=damage-done playing sub since 4 days

[runic quest]

hello, returning player here and i wanted to ask if there is a proper way to fix my keybinds or make a macro for my burst windows to pop all my buffs without braking my fingers

[unkempt drum]

I know the recommendation is don't use Hekili, and I'm learning without it -- but I have it for other alts and I noticed it would frequently recomment SecTeq before Blades, which seems like a very obvious and weird mistake for such a popular addon (which the Wowhead guide even recommends as an alternative to the in-game highlighter)

[twin quartz]

That’s one of the hard things about sub. You need really efficient binds that are comfy to access especially for the cooldown windows

[hazy breach]

If you used the armory function on raidbots the belt automically selects the default option (charged bolts), which is bad

[unkempt drum]

I'm finding this challenging, I at first had Dance and Shadowstrike on the same button so I accidentally would send a bad dance sometimes if I doubletapped strike at the very end.

[runic quest]

also sometimes i think i have something like input lag which i spam a shadowstrike but it takes a while to do, a sec to generate the combo points and like anoher sec to use eviscerate and it doesnt feel its the global cooldown that mess this

[twin quartz]

Some people bind their dance button so once you’re in dance, you can hit the same button for backstab

Out of stealth bind, it’s dance, in stealth, it’s backstab

[unkempt drum]

Interesting, I have backstab in the same spot as my other fillers (tiger palm for my monk, mutilate for assa rogue). I guess that'd allow you to just hit symbols double tap Dance for the backstab and go right to Blades

I was looking at a log of mine yesterday and it's partially because I'm learning but I'm definitely hitting the opener too slow

[twin quartz]

For me, I have dance bound to E, and symbols bound to R, so to enter dance it’s E R E, unless I already have enough combos to spend of course

[unkempt drum]

Somewhat relatedly, another q -- if we get coup and the 4 set bonus but it refunds the combo points, do you double tap or still shuriken between them at max cp?

[twin quartz]

If you get filled between the two coups, you just coup coup

[unkempt drum]

Cool, appreciate the answers

[wheat sentinel]

I did not know that, thanks.

[graceful crown]

is it just me, or is sub rogue 20times harder than it used to be, i feel like i've lost all knoweldge and momentum of the spec. I had my trial today and i did so poorly it has me thinking if i've ever even played this game before jfc, im trying to follow the lorrg timings and everything and for the first moment it looked like it worked well but then suddenly i just plummet hard,

anyone know any streamers or video guides that can help with the current mythic raid timings and everything?

[lucid jackal]

Its pretty easy u just need to know what ur doing

[wheat sentinel]

TBH I think it's easy compared to like mop sub

[lucid jackal]

If u just try and wing it, it's not going to end up well

But the heuristics are fairly simple imo

[twin quartz]

You need to be able to understand your budget, and do your cooldown windows correctly every time

[unkempt drum]

It sorta reminds me of fire mage, it's entirely dependent upon nailing your combust patterns

[graceful crown]

i might just be giga demotivated rn and just dooming hard, but i just dont get the whole dance 35 sec thing. added to the fact that it was my first time actually playing through the mythic mechanics and recently chanign my ui it all came at me at once and rn im in total despair lol

so 35 secs until my cds i just... dont use anything?

i see everyone using 2 sectecs in 1 dance

things i havent been bold enough trying b4 and now after practice tried all at once

and it feels so weird

[tepid trellis]

85% of the spec is just getting 2x dance 2x sod 2x sectech in blades

[queen plinth]

1 sectech in 1 dance sod

right?

[tepid trellis]

yes

[twin quartz]

You can double sec tech in a first dance cooldown if you get good shadow techniques refunds, but it doesn’t matter much. What stealthi said

[graceful crown]

so i should stop trying the fancy 2xsectecs in 1 dance

and do as i did b4

[queen plinth]

would u mind reviweing my loomithar mythic log above

[graceful crown]

1per dance

[hazy breach]

Sometimes you proc and you can do 2 sectechs in your first dance, sometimes you dont

It doesnt really matter, and its absolutely not something you should get hungup on

The basics of using 2x symbols, 2 dances and 2x sectechs every blades

Is what you should be focused on

[round abyss]

can someone explain shadow technique to me like i am a 4 year old? Is it supposed to add combo points to the builder or spender?

[shrewd lantern]

if you send a second sectech in the very last global of dance what happens to the damage of it

do you need to dance again to get the buff

[tepid trellis]

lil busy atm

[shrewd lantern]

BRO'S GOT HANDS

[queen plinth]

yea maybe later 😄

gl

[twin quartz]

You make sure to dance before the second part of secret techniques lands

[quaint snow]

2 use trinket better than antenna + 1 use ?

(on last 2 boss)

[cursive vapor]

if i upgrade my oh dagger to 723, should i switch it to my mainhand? or is like the everforged stabber always mainhand? mh is 720

[shadow lance]

723 as MH

Mainhand ilvl is the biggest dps upgrade

[shrewd lantern]

is it worth though or wait till the second dance to hit secret

[mint violet]

Why sectec has to be in the dance and what does rupture do for us?

[twin quartz]

That’s fine too

[shadow lance]

Read dance effect

And rupture does damages

Best ratio damages / cp

[rugged heath]

whats the command for the rogue sim google doc

[shadow lance]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rugged heath]

ty

[tepid trellis]

took the screenshot and sent it in the intermission while flying

king of multi tasking ong

[mint violet]

But rupture is not even up there in terms of DPS tho

[tepid trellis]

was still first to the platform

im fast af boi

[twin quartz]

Built different

[shadow lance]

You send way less ruptures than other spells

But, if you look at numbers, invest 6 cp in rupture is better than invest 6 cp in eviscerate out of dance

[tepid trellis]

rupture does around 3x the dmg

over the whole duration

than an evis

[shadow lance]

That's why it's neutral/worth if target lives 12 sec+

[wheat elk]

is there a way that i can see the difference between bp and evis in a 8 to 10 target pull?

[shrewd lantern]

stealthi how much do i care about doing damage in soulhunter intermissions

[mint violet]

So it's pretty important to keep it on every mob outside of dance

[shrewd lantern]

it doesnt feel super relevant since cds arent up then?

[tepid trellis]

0

[hazy breach]

Its like 5% overall or prio either way

[shrewd lantern]

so its really as long as you get blast during cds on all 3 i imagine

to get high number

[shadow lance]

I would say 0 cuz you wanna send shit when they're all 3 there

[wheat elk]

wait so even in prio bp out dpses evis?

[hazy breach]

No

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i figured farming sht afk is fine then

[wheat elk]

ah

bp overall vs evis prio

[shadow lance]

Yes, like on Araz

[shrewd lantern]

araz was a good time

[shadow lance]

when you hit pylons

[shrewd lantern]

just auto the boss for 10s

till add set

[wheat elk]

idk why but i feel like im doing more when im evising

[shrewd lantern]

"im helping guys"

nude sectec

on 2nd one

[shadow lance]

I legit told my RL I was not gonna send a dance on it

[shrewd lantern]

i sent a set on first pylon

not 2nd

[mint violet]

So I still don't understand how sectec interacts with dance and why it's good to use it as a first finisher

[shadow lance]

If I do that, we de sync the pylons

[hazy breach]

Dance makes us do more damage

[urban oasis]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[shadow lance]

Did you read dance?

It buff damages done

And we use as first finisher to get 2 * 100% proc chance of UB

And stacking Flawless

And supercharge with Sod

You just wanna put it in cd asap so you can use mor

[sinful depot]

Except for if you have coup right?

[mint violet]

Oh, ok that makes sense, it does not say it buffs damages though

[hazy breach]

No

[mint violet]

It says it gives buffs of being invis

[shadow lance]

Eleem says it's not a big deal

Trying to supercharge second coup is useless

[shadow lance]

Lemme check but I'm kinda sure it's written

[hazy breach]

No its dark shadows in the talent tree that does it

(and danse macabre)

But yeah

[shadow lance]

And yes, Dance macabre, forgot about it

[mint violet]

Ye, the dance macabre makes me think it is best used at the end of dance

[hazy breach]

Ye but its not

Use it at the start

[shadow lance]

Don't think, trust

[hazy breach]

Because of trickster

[mint violet]

Trickster?

[shadow lance]

Hero talent

[mint violet]

I need to think too, I do trust though

Just in a key you end up in different situations

[shadow lance]

I just gave 3 reason above

And there's prolly more

[mint violet]

Ye, the screenshot, I wonder why wow head tooltip different

[shadow lance]

No, about Sectech first finisher

[distant sage]

is it better to keep passive trinket if im willing to wait for the prism to stack up and using it every second cd send

[distant sage]

or just use two on use trinkets

[queen rain]

I trusted the process until tank pulled 3 mobs when my cds up

[distant sage]

like lily and prism

[mint violet]

Ye, that makes sense

[shadow lance]

PAssive + prism / Lily + passive / Prism + forge

[distant sage]

got it thanks

[shadow lance]

Prism + lily is bad

[mint violet]

Funniest comment ever

[shadow lance]

Btw, you can sim your char, double use is in

[zinc river]

yo

on how many targets should we black powder ? and on how many targets evis?

[shadow lance]

4+ for bp

3 and less for evis

[zinc river]

nimble fury deals up to 8 targets ?

[hazy breach]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[shadow lance]

Yes but BP does more damage that Evis

[shadow lance]

These explain why you SecTech first

[zinc river]

ty

[upbeat sorrel]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[mint violet]

Ye, so sectec true value in the unseen blades

[shadow lance]

It deals good damages

But better proc more unseen with it than gain 12% damages

[mint violet]

We inflict maximum damages

Thanks for the help

[shadow lance]

You're welcome

Tbh, there's no idea op tech

Just follow the rotation in IV or Wowhead guides and you'll be good

[mint violet]

Well I got the opener more or less automatic, but key do make you move sometime and some things are missed, I just try to understand how to make best of the situations

Or also in between burst windows are a bit hard

Sometimes overuse dance

And then 1 dance for blades

[lavish acorn]

!log

[mint violet]

Which is poopoo

[shadow lance]

You need to do math then

Cuz it's 2 dances uses between cd's

Sometimes more If you got a lot of cdr

But better sit on a dance between cds than having a single dance for shadow blades

[viscid furnace]

Are crafted weapons still BiS? I find that unfortunate

[shadow lance]

Why you saying it's BiS?

[hazy breach]

Idk they havent been for a long time

[viscid furnace]

Im asking if thats still true

[shadow lance]

It can't be cuz of ilvl

So, you usually craft it for fast big ilvl mh, than put it in offhand once you get a MM dagger

[lilac stag]

and then in the bank when you get a second

[tender frost]

did u send a dance before cds in burn for this or just hard pool for flag

[shadow lance]

Just to lose a minimum of stats and have the embellish

[lilac stag]

Move the embellishment to wrists. Ez

[shadow lance]

Already on wrist and dagger

[lilac stag]

neck or ring

[shadow lance]

I got good stats on ring atm

But yes, I could swap some to gain 0.2 %

[warm marlin]

pool

[junior timber]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[tender frost]

holding maghar for that?

[warm marlin]

yes

[tender frost]

[warm marlin]

And predisorient, a presymbols, 14 sht

coup obv

[tender frost]

pre disorient gotta figure that one out

[finite sequoia]

yo anyone here good with probabilities? trying to snipe forgeweaver trinket out of vault, better to kill 4 and have 2 slots with only loot from 4 bosses or 6 and have 3 with bigger loot pool?

[flint oar]

If that's not right you can report it to us on the addon GitHub page or discord. Issue reporting instructions are right inside the addon settings menu near bottom left.

[warm marlin]

same as the prepull cheese

[tender frost]

if you've already killed fract and soulhunters that loot is perma in your vault forever i think

[hazy breach]

If youve ever killed the 6 bosses they can appear in your vault

[finite sequoia]

oh

that's how it works

[tender frost]

how you build back to 7 without spending tho

[warm marlin]

Storm

it’s 2 target anyway it’s not that bad

[tender frost]

ah gotcha tyty

[warm marlin]

the timing is a bit tight to set it all up properly

you don’t need all of it

14 sht is probably the biggest gain

hard to do triple sectec in burn without it

[shadow lance]

Building a coup, sec tech, sod and storm to 7 before dropping the nuclear bomb?

[tender frost]

only getting double dance w/o autumn kinda lame

or like 2.5 dance ig

[unkempt drum]

Honestly I'm so new I was open to it being situationally correct and me being wrong, I was sorta asking the group how that might happen if at all

but will report it if it's legit wrong

[warm marlin]

autumn is certainly better

just have an hpal

[flint oar]

You can also sim yourself at the same target count and see what it does.

[tender frost]

idt its as bad as on dimen

[tender frost]

last q but how much time did you find you needed to get your sectec back preburn like 15-20?

[brave harbor]

how am I simming higher with pacemaker+prism rather than lily+prism(dungeon slice)

[shadow lance]

Lily prism sucks

There's no reason to use it

[unkempt drum]

don't ask questions just accept the blessing of the robot telling you you don't have to double on-use

[shadow lance]

The only good double use is Prism and Forge

[brave harbor]

but lily+prism really makes sense because you only use 18 stacks of prism

[shadow lance]

Ans you sit on a entire lily cd

[warm marlin]

idk since you're also trying to stack sht you dont want to spend super hard

[shadow lance]

And sending prism every 9 stack or 18, is neutral

[warm marlin]

I abused the snd bug to spend and gain the extra cdr from the supercharge without using the supercharged cps

cast it at like 4:02

[upper girder]

can someone explain something to me, I have dps meeter obviously, just trying to do nexus right now in HC, Im number 1 on dps with 8m+ dps on p1, doing a full rotation and much more dmg after as well until p2 where I also do full rotation on titan add being nr1 dps again and rest of fight Im also number 1 or at least top5 through p3

People tell me do more dmg to boss and only reason Im top dps is because I cleave adds, theres literally only p2 with adds and Im nr1 on dps on other parts too so why are they saying my dmg is low on boss?

[tender frost]

aight i appreciate ya ty

[shadow lance]

Cuz people are stupid

If you top damages on the boss, just don't care

[plush roost]

Not a bug king, supercharge specifies DAMAGE abilites

[upper girder]

but they were like 10 people saying the same thing

they say my dmg to boss is low

[shadow lance]

You got a log?

[upper girder]

there has to be some sort of meaning to it

[warm marlin]

well its a bug that the snd benefits from the supercharge +3cp without consuming it

[plush roost]

Look

We dont talk about that part

[shadow lance]

A screenshot of details?

[upper girder]

of the fight? no

[shadow lance]

Can't tell then

[upper girder]

no, but I guarantee you I was nr1 most of times, unless my dps crash due to no cds after a while

but if Im nr1 dps I should be doing more dmg tho?

it doesnt make sense to me

[shadow lance]

Bro, people are just stupid

[upper girder]

im tryna make sense of it and I asked them, they were just rude and called me bunch of names n shit

so I left the group

[shadow lance]

If you send your cds to the boss, you doing your job

[thick veldt]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[plush roost]

Meanwhile bm

[warm marlin]

ye well

good buffs by blizzard entertainment

what can i say

[upper girder]

yeah I sent my cds full rotation 2 times before p2, its like 2 min cd

[plush roost]

57% of it is blackarrow

[upper girder]

so I literally cannot do more than that

[plush roost]

XDDD

[shadow lance]

2 min? Doubt

[upper girder]

no its like 1.5

[warm marlin]

im calculating the universe to full prestack in time and pool all my damage while bm me press black arrow

[upper girder]

flaggelation

[warm marlin]

it is what it is

[plush roost]

It be what it be

[upper girder]

flagellation

[plush roost]

We got dragon to 1.2% lmao

[shadow lance]

Yeah, ikr, was messing with you

[meager geyser]

Is there any roguegod who I can DM for some help about sub? Ill pay 200k gold for the trouble

[plush roost]

If we kill dragon i wonder if it does the last behead

[wheat sentinel]

Does spatial rifting db 1st boss beams still cause you to die from cringe

[fossil forge]

Did any1 spam bp on soulhunters in cds

or is it int

[lilac stag]

3 button BM spec and people in here constantly arguing how easy sub is.

[warm marlin]

@plush roost another excellent tuning pass by blizzard entertainment

[lilac stag]

The good news is it took 5 weeks for us to hit bottom 5 instead of 2

#growthmindset

[warm marlin]

we heard too many people were playing mm with it being the best st spec in the game... time to buff bm until its even better

[lilac stag]

Assa buffs in 2 weeks at the latest

[frigid talon]

How much Haste do you need as Subrouge average?

[solemn sonnet]

None

[lilac stag]

900. From chest. That’s it.

[worthy quarry]

coldblod + sectec macro is it worth it right (for m+) ?

[lilac stag]

It’s worth it for raid as well

[frigid talon]

so i can have like 3% Haste and its fine?

[lilac stag]

You just need a non macro setech as well

[lilac stag]

Too much haste

[tropic nimbus]

1% gang

[earnest harness]

1%? My only haste item is shoulder piece and it put me on 2%

But that’s not what I came here for. I did a Warcraftsnalyzer. Practically every CD was badly casted because of SoD being on CD.

[lilac stag]

sucks to have shoulders.

unless someone actually worked on it we don’t use WA

It’s not supported

[earnest harness]

I’ve binded SoD to all major cD’s but obviously I spam them when in rotation. Which is likely using my charges.

[lilac stag]

um

[earnest harness]

Is this a common thing? And would you recommend not to bind SoD?

[lilac stag]

What guide did you read that told you to do that?

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[lilac stag]

So start with any or all of those

and learn how our CDs work

[earnest harness]

The macroing to CD’s?

[lilac stag]

The answer is you didn’t read a guide

you have sod macro’d to nothing. That’s not at all how this spec plays

[earnest harness]

Well yea, but for convenience and to have one less bind I just macros SoD in…..

[hazy breach]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[lilac stag]

this is not a convience spec

[earnest harness]

😬😬😬😬😬 hence why my DPS is donkey