subtlety

[haughty mural]

What are your options ?

[vale pine]

i still run a normal one

[haughty mural]

Us neither .. I got mine from vault

[vale pine]

i mean its even on normal strong

[jade oasis]

BRING BACK THE COINS

let me buy my raid trinkets again

[vale pine]

but delays means other classes/specs realize that its good

[haughty mural]

They’ll come in 11.2.5

[vale pine]

so i won't get it guaranteed

[haughty mural]

Yes true

[compact violet]

you can if u put forge first, bcs it will be on cd for the next burst, but only if u burst before 2mn

[vale pine]

true

[compact violet]

it work pretty well on king : araz ==> prism ==> araz platform ==> prism 18stack amp

[fossil forge]

i wonder What will people buy with dinars now

Trinkets are much more accesible since they drop from earlier bosses

[short radish]

prism -> forge -> boots

maybe antenna

[fossil forge]

what If i have all of those

suffering from success ?

[short radish]

yeah

dinars arent made for people like you

theyre made for people like guy

[fossil forge]

Finally got my myth dagger

[compact violet]

we have dinar this tier ?

[fossil forge]

Havent Seen one drop since start of tier

Yeah later on

[short radish]

congratz, i have my myth bow

[compact violet]

bis outlaw build inc with dinar 😄

im near to full build already u_u

[fossil forge]

Probs gonna spend dinars for outlaw gear like last szn

[sick sand]

How we determine whether to send evis or sectec as 1st finisher? Single target

[fallow nimbus]

If sectec has 10sec cd and you are not in cds then you can eviscerate first

Else you sectec as first finisher

[turbid edge]

Even if in cds, u can still evis first, right? Then u get sectech up for 2nd finisher

[hazy breach]

If sectech is ready, press sectech

Making sure you get the unseen blades from disorienting strikes off earlier is way more important than an extra macabre stack for sectech

[glass rune]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility >= Critical Strike >>> Haste

[rancid zephyr]

hello i wanna craft gear for one of my tier set slot. which tier set slot has the worst stat for sub?

[alpine wraith]

shoulder

[narrow shadow]

You cannot turn crafted gear into tier

[scenic crystal]

He doesnt Want to make it Tier 😜 he wants the Four other Slots with Tier and then craft the one Slot of Tier that he doesnt want to wear as Tier Set cause of the Stats 😂

[pseudo sail]

Struggling with logs on sub a bit, running antenna and netherprism. I have a question, currently prism is macro'd to use whenever i press Shadow blades, meaning whenever i have very low stacks at pull (usually just 1) it gets pressed. I was thinking if its better to not use trinket at start and let it build stacks for the next SB (1min 30 into the fight, so you do not have the 20 sec downtime of missing out on stacks at the start.

[hazy breach]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[vestal escarp]

Got?

[hazy breach]

Not mythic no, but it did drop in hc

[vestal escarp]

w?

[hazy breach]

not an L atleast

[pliant arrow]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[ornate lake]

How much does a mythic one boss kill cost? Want to get mythic fractalis for trinket

Guild ain't progging that far before the patch comes out

[haughty rose]

do i have a chance to get invited into mythic pug with those logs? how can i increase my chance or is it really just a hit or miss?

sucks that assa is so much better on sentinel

[pseudo sail]

Yeah but my patchwork sims about 4,6 mil and i did loomithar yesterday (felt pretty decent) and did 4,55 mil dps, log is 84 but my ilvl parse is 22 (ilvl 712)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/y7ackN9YKZBAx6HW?fight=12&type=damage-done

[tight monolith]

yeah def but they mostly look at item level and experience in those pugs rn. but just hit your head towards the wall for some hours if you motivated and queuee and wipe until you get it done

experience as in killed them before or main mythic prog if on an alt

[hollow spear]

I hate antenna

[haughty rose]

ok i might try spam apply for some groups this weekend. let's hope it's not a waste of time haha

[void ocean]

i decided to stay with 2 on use in keys

[tight monolith]

good luck! I believe🫡

first 2 are pretty free and the antenna chance in vault is hot but its abit rng how many demons you get in your pug

[sick jolt]

Guys are we going to use eco dome trink lily?

[tight monolith]

did it on my dk alt and it was an experience to say it at least but got it done. prob in average better tank movement on lfr soulbinder than what I got in my grp in that pug

[tight monolith]

if you dont have prism yeah, its your best on use from mythic + loot table

[sick jolt]

i dont have prism and also dont have forge but if im going to change lily to forge later im not gonna take it from vault

[tight monolith]

hmmmm

I would prob take it from vault if its mythic

whats the rest of your vault like

and do you raid mythic?

[scenic plover]

Was sth changed with the disc belt? Suddenly 707 mythc from first boss gives me 50k dps gain over it?

[tight monolith]

what effect do you got on it

the changes shouldnt be implemented yet but getting nerfed in next patch or some shit

I guess you have fat fingered or changed the effect on the belt if its suddenly simming like dogwater

[sick jolt]

i got myth shoulder and neck with lily

[sick jolt]

yes im on 4th boss

[tight monolith]

fair fair, then follow your gut but picking lily mythic wouldnt be the worst choice imo even doe its not locked in bis but decent other options

if I had no prism or forge rn, I would prob have sent that lily personally

[scenic plover]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t3DSPVHMbuVmd6zm4wgAyV

Ah maybe it didnt load as i used armory data

[hazy breach]

Yeah

Belt is bugged and sims as default (charged bolts) if you use armory

[crystal rain]

in m+, is rotten more dps vs 1 point into finality?

[vale osprey]

Wait I just checked sims does antenna suck now?

Rip my last week's vault pick

[marble sail]

Frac go brrr

[hazy breach]

It does not suck no

[fast solar]

!dance

[zinc dagger]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[haughty mural]

That’s a rare take

[native zodiac]

Honestly i also despise antenna

Double on use

[haughty mural]

I am kinda torn

Between antenna and double on use

[marble sail]

how can u hate this

[karmic harbor]

these are my hc logs and im in a 6/8m guild so... probably?

[vale osprey]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[native zodiac]

its defo good on some fights

but a fight to fight prefernce imo

last 2 antenna is just unplayable

ive seen some logs with a 50% miss chance

[compact violet]

im playin it on king atm

and its really ok

ur loosing some only on p1

but who acre about p1

[hazy breach]

Ye 50% is extreme, thats like purposefully running away from them at all times

I had 10% on our kill of nexus king

[lilac stag]

Eleem king of ball chasing

[hazy breach]

Its obviously a lot easier as melee than non-mage/bm ranged

[native zodiac]

ye it was usually on ranged logs that ive seen some extremes

[lilac stag]

I haven’t had the pleasure to see the trinket in action.

[native zodiac]

theres a dev evoker log on dim with a 75% miss chance

[daring tusk]

is there still the bug with the rotten and shuriken storm?

[haughty rose]

Thanks sir ✌️

[wispy crystal]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[manic niche]

Helo guys.

I have these 3 trinkets:

• Myth track (714) Araz's Ritual Forge
• Myth track (714) Astral Antenna
• Heroic track (710) Unyielding Netherprism

Based on sims for ST the Prism + Antenna suits the best, however I see ppl using the Araz's Ritual Forge and Unyielding Netherprism together.

What do you think?

[compact violet]

depend where for what but prism and antenna is gonna be huge for most of the situation

[limpid sage]

might need to increase the dimensius one

but besides that you're well above the avg pug

[compact violet]

i actually have the exact same setup, and antenna + prism is just better in everyboss of the raid atm

i was wondering on king, but the platform nerf means i dont want anymore burst here

[manic niche]

Yeah, like in HC reclear I would use the araz trinket insead of the prism. Because fights are less then 4 minutes most of the time.

But yeah, stick to the sims I guess then.

[compact violet]

and ye araz is very dependant of the time kill

[manic niche]

I was just curious, because most ppl use double use trinkets.

[compact violet]

ye there is a lot of reason to it

[lilac stag]

You’re not dropping prism. You’d drop forge

[compact violet]

if ur looking at top log, ur gonna see a lot of double use cuz araz was way more accessible than antenna for most top rogue

[karmic harbor]

what other trinkets do you have

[compact violet]

and bcs araz + prism is banger on king and dimensius MM

but i bet the more u go into the patch, the more antenna ur gonna see on top log for the 6 first

[manic niche]

Just those 3.

[compact violet]

we just need to wait for every dk / lock / mage get it

[lilac stag]

You’ll see more antenna or pacemaker on the last two as it goes on

[compact violet]

or drop it on vault

[karmic harbor]

prism + forge is rly good on last 2 mythic

[native hawk]

blaster

[manic niche]

Yeah we are almost there and i was thinking, it is going to be not so fun running around to get those Antenna orbs lmfao.

There would be a lot of loss prolly.

Thank you guys

[queen plinth]

is forge like an upgrade your overall boosts a lot?

[lilac stag]

#subtlety message

[vale pine]

the only fight you probably have a lower % chance is dimensius

people rly overestimate how much they miss

[compact violet]

we did a few pull yesterday and one where we got to p3 on king and i missed a lot
but i'm also rling so i'm really not looking at it

pretty sure if ur focusing a bit on it u can just go for 20-25% misses at max

and most of them in p1 i guess

p2/p3 ur not mooving a lot

[glossy turtle]

could someone perhaps look at my loomithar kill. im doing like a mil lower dmg then the highest parsers, and I jsut dont know what im doing wrong. Any feedback would be much appreciated.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/A4jVPpnKXHw8FM3D?fight=31&type=damage-done

[finite sequoia]

is it optimal to pop your third dance right after the first two (from opener) to take advantage of flawless form? same during minis when you dont have flag/blades but have 2 dances to spare, two dances in a row better than spacing them out?

[prisma minnow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hguHLxvyhe7e6wz4ENeu4g Do I even take any trinkets from my vault? I mean maxed out it sim way less than the raid trinkets

I got cursed stone idol and sacbrood in vault

on myth track

[haughty rose]

yeah had only one kill so far which wos clutched by the last man standing DH tank for 30 seconds or so. should be pretty high if i survive till end but honestly, pugging dimensius HC is still a pain. i usually leave if i see puddles in p1 are all over the place for 3 pulls in a row. cba

[prisma minnow]

Like this is my vault sim https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sev8bjKTRzfYNmaFpZzmcA

[limpid sage]

ye it's terrible

[vital ocean]

i started nexus a few days ago, did 1 evening with antenna + prism and 1 night with forge + prism, and the forge+prism is alot nicer

(we are making it to p3)

[rigid delta]

Can you vanish the interrogation on first boss streets?

[hazy breach]

Yesnt, it retargets

[vital ocean]

it just moves it to another target, you wanna cloak it to ignore it

[rigid delta]

Thought so, just messed a pull 😂

Thanks

[haughty mural]

You can cloak it though

[zinc dagger]

hey guys! I wanted to start playing sub, so I'm watching all the basics, and if i have a look to some logs I see that. It seem's to be in same macro, what macros are you using? !macro send only too trival macros

[mighty citrus]

this is not correct

lovely fuu did write up a very good guide on wowhead

look at the cooldownillustration

it will show what you have to do

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[short radish]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[round latch]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[silent notch]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[autumn pawn]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[zinc dagger]

thx!

[scenic plover]

Has the borderlands 4 steam preload started?

[vale pine]

not sure

[potent geyser]

Whats the benefit to that macro?

[vale pine]

you can use the same key for backstab in shadow dance

[potent geyser]

Oh I just have my stealth and non stealth bar setup exactly the same

[vale pine]

well yes

but the above saves a keybind

if you don't have backstab and shadowstrike seperated

[severe fox]

whats the reason for using shuriken storm between Coup de Grace?

[hazy breach]

!coup

[native hawk]

[hazy breach]

During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.

[hazy breach]

Another thing thats actually very relevant is that it uses it immediately after you dance

[severe fox]

ah makes sense, ty

[hazy breach]

A lot of people (me included) have a tendancy to miss their last global in dance now, especially if you get good procs and get 2x coups

[shadow lance]

Yes, last dance gobal is sometimes weird

[hazy breach]

Since coup is 1.2s instead of 1s

If you have used 4 coups during your blades dances

You have 0.2s leeway across 16 (or 20) seconds

[lilac stag]

At times 8 globals is

[karmic harbor]

is that true?

[hazy breach]

Oh wait thats not the one

youre right

[lilac stag]

We’re back to needing dance + strike macro and dance +bs

[hazy breach]

Well you cant macro dance+strike

[lilac stag]

oh shit that’s right

[hazy breach]

Because of the stance thing

[lilac stag]

I forgot about that

[hazy breach]

#showtooltip /cast Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs /cast Backstab
This was the one i was referring to, my bad

Only really used for the blades dance

[native hawk]

is there any reason for coup to be a bit longer than 1s or is it just clunk

[lilac stag]

They used dfa as a base code and had an animation lock

[native hawk]

maybe outlaw AR hasted gdc stuff or something idk

ahhh ok

[lilac stag]

Coup used to port us to target if at max melee range

[hazy breach]

Just jank

[native hawk]

the ansurek incident

[covert meteor]

Was me adding SoD to Shadow Blades bad
Outside of that I press it manually

[lilac stag]

There’s zero reason for the 1.2 now except laziness

[leaden prairie]

Rogue stuffs are filled with weird things like these that make no sense but add clunkyness to the specs

It's just rogue design

[vale pine]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[feral bluff]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[limpid sage]

yes because in opener you do ss-flag-rupture-dance+sod-backstab

so if you have symbols bound to shadowblades you're wasting a symbols cast

[covert meteor]

Oh, no, sod double casting/ overlapping early is being taken care off because of the castsequence macro suggested here for Tea.

I use the same for SoD in the blades macro

This one; Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[vale pine]

the macro does not

unless you write backstab in a new line

or press the macro multiple times

[lilac stag]

He caught that a few comments down

[finite sequoia]

does anyone know if its optimal to pop your third dance right after the first two (from opener) to take advantage of flawless form? same during minis when you dont have flag/blades but have 2 dances to spare, two dances in a row better than spacing them out?

[vale pine]

oh, i wasn't that far yet

well nevermind then ^^

[lilac stag]

he posted the macro he was thinking about

[weary tree]

How bad is it to actually not get autumn on nexus king

[hazy breach]

Not that big of a deal

The main difference is that you get to send your cooldowns with some sht stacked

[native hawk]

feels stinky though

[hazy breach]

And/or with a guaranteed coup, depends a little bit on how you do it

[fringe mauve]

hello new to sub i got the basics and rotation down but the dps feel so low

idk why

[hazy breach]

Are you sending 2x dances, 2 symbols and 2 sectechs every single shadow blades without any downtime inbetween dances?

[fringe mauve]

yea mostly

[vale pine]

if you do this correct, your damage should be good on most fights

[fringe mauve]

specially in st in m+ im doing tank dps

[vale pine]

ofc some figths are more specific

https://www.lorrgs.io/

^ this website helps a lot

[fringe mauve]

sure ill check ty

[vale pine]

it basically shows you how top logs use cooldowns

it still requires some thought but you can usually quickly see what people do and how cooldowns and boss mechanics line up

[fringe mauve]

i mean im lacking gears too maybe :v

its fairly new character tho

[hazy breach]

Circlet

Replace that shit

[fringe mauve]

on it 6x dung 0 drops

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-crying-gif-20285728

[hazy breach]

Also enchant your shit

[vale pine]

no weapon enchants

[fringe mauve]

fairly new character no bully

[lilac stag]

fix that mog while youre at it

[fringe mauve]

i started a day ago

XD

[vale pine]

no intention to bully

but a new character will have lacking performance if the gear isn't great and enchants/gems/item level are missing

[fringe mauve]

i agree

[solemn lance]

Agreed that mog is holding you back mentally. Look great do great!

[lilac stag]

mog is the biggest dps increase you can get after prism

[fringe mauve]

lowkey regret having a draenei it used to be one of my crafters

so the racial

[cedar iron]

Hi,
Is there a difference having wep enchants on MH or OH?

Just did a 723/720 (craft) swap

And wondering

[hazy breach]

It does not matter which slot you have your enchant in no

[vale pine]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[vale pine]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[serene elk]

Would you guys use

Araz normal +prism lfr trinket combo for nexus king mythix?

My other options are champ antena and hero lily

[vale pine]

antenna + prism

or well

maybe araz + prism works too

having prism lfr is kinda oof, i hope you can get a normal/heroic one soon

[spiral sierra]

ive been enjoying the Araz + Prism combo

on like everything, im weird.

[vale pine]

the combo is good

but its not always the best

[spiral sierra]

true

[vale pine]

you can use prism on 18 stacks

even if its your ownly on use

so you don't need forge to get the same flexibility

it just is easier to play around if you have

[golden harbor]

If I wanted netherprism on my 3rd set of cds how would I play araz+prism?
Araz-nothing-prism?

I guess practically (mythic araz prog) i just pop on pull instead of first add set with araz, then hold 30s for 3rd add set with araz, then prism the damage amp

Or would you do araz prism araz?

[native frost]

Gotta look sublime for subtlety

[upbeat cradle]

If you play both Araz and prism how do you use them ?

Araz on pull, then alternate between the two of them ?

[cunning notch]

is anyone running the Veiltouched talent ? instead of shuriken Tornado ?

[short radish]

yeah

fuck shuriken tornado

[cunning notch]

thats what i'm sayying dawwg

[manic salmon]

guys

[short radish]

i also play coldblood

because fuck using tea

and pressing it on backstabs

[short radish]

take prism

[manic salmon]

forgot to post this

yesterday

yummy trinkets

[short radish]

gz

[lilac pendant]

!araz

😭

[crystal bone]

i have a myth araz in my vault but hesitating to take it lol

not sure how i feel about double on-use

[slate lantern]

what are your current trinks/what else is in vault

[lilac pendant]

Any WA for araz?

[crystal bone]

hero pacemaker, champ prism, and i'd take a socket otherwise in the vault

i do have 2 items that are socket-worthy

[slate lantern]

what would you want the weakaura to do

[crystal bone]

i've heard araz/prism are bis for keys

not really a pusher this season tho so it's w/e

[slate lantern]

im no tc'er but forge + prism should probably beat hero pace

plus double on use is goated for last two bosses apparently

[short radish]

bro take the araz trinket

[serene elk]

Payed 250k for araz normal last night

Had lfr wue prism for a while

[short radish]

you do more damage in your burst

and less damage in your non bursts

[serene elk]

Seems like without double on use

[short radish]

but like

[crystal bone]

it definitely does beat it, by about 80k sim dps patchwerk

[serene elk]

You cant so dmg on nexus

[short radish]

we're all about the burst

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[short radish]

you dont even need to play any different

you just macro them

[lilac pendant]

Mb i meant the prism

[short radish]

and it auto alternates

assuming youre using off cooldown

[crystal bone]

so i'd have 1 macro with blades per trinket, but how do you track which one to use

[short radish]

and your enot holding flag for 3 minutes for some reason

[crystal bone]

like thruout a key

[short radish]

you dont

i mean

you can

but you dont bother

[slate lantern]

i mean pretty easy to make a wa that just tracks stacks, good thing to learn making WAs from!

[short radish]

you just do
/use 13
/use 14

forge is 13
prism is 14

you use forge first and then it alternates

[vale pine]

yikes

[crystal bone]

it won't prio using forge every time?

[slate lantern]

forge is 2min

[short radish]

forge is 2 minute

[serene elk]

Yet to run hc but not hoping

[crystal bone]

OHH

[slate lantern]

so when you use again you wont have it

[short radish]

flag is 1.5min

[crystal bone]

lmao

didnt notice that

[serene elk]

Soo you think champ araz+vet prism

[crystal bone]

idk why i was thinking araz was 1.5 min

[serene elk]

Over liliy hero and antena champ?

[marsh path]

!symbols

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[crystal bone]

ty for that i will grab it from vault today then lmao

[short radish]

[marsh path]

!simguide

[wicked jolt]

Guide to Simming yourself: https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-raidbots-sims-stat-weights

For more accurate results you should always sim yourself using Top Gear for gear you already have in your bags
or Droptimizer to see which content drops the biggest upgrade for you. Do not use Stat Weights sims to evaluate gear.

[short radish]

statweights

[slate lantern]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/933386399279878154/991343673419763753/caption.gif?ex=68c37ffe&is=68c22e7e&hm=a96e9e14a8ab48b9c91c87db41814a027751882c26c090e9b96794b7203b0dd4&

[keen dome]

The only good statweights are the stats to my weights

[short radish]

based

[native frost]

so is my 73% mastery too high

[lilac pendant]

You

[native frost]

i was wrong its actually 77%

[short radish]

[high void]

is dslice good for sub?

[short radish]

yes

[high void]

o7

[dapper gyro]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[graceful osprey]

I have all the infinity stones. Got prism from the vault

https://tenor.com/view/xxiisoul-thanos-gif-23843096

[short radish]

gzgz

[long yarrow]

Heya folks, question, what's the best trinket combo for m+? I was thinking it's forge + antenna but others said forge + prims is still the best

[lilac stag]

I give it a 6

[short radish]

it is prism + X

fill X with pacemaker/antenna/forge

[lilac stag]

priory wasn't that bad as a second on use in keys from the little testing I did with it

[slate lantern]

dont forget the goat: harvesters edict

[short radish]

????? priory is garbage

[long yarrow]

I see

[short radish]

the trinket?

[long yarrow]

Thanks boss

[short radish]

or are you syaing 2x onuse in priory

[lilac stag]

constant agility, and a boost to mastery in CD to offset with prism

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/shid-conceited-gif-13537095

[long yarrow]

No priory is mega bad

[lilac stag]

the trinket, it's fine. ideal no

[short radish]

its shit

its worse than lily

at same ilvl

[lilac stag]

lily isnt a bad trinket lol

[long yarrow]

At that point just go and farm lily

Both are m+ trinkets

[short radish]

yeah lily is good

but like

lily as a trinket

gives more stats than priory trinket

just lasts 15 vs 20 seconds

but blades lasts 16 seconds anyway

so who cares

[lilac stag]

kekw

[warm marlin]

Flag lasts 24s though

I don’t see why priory wouldn’t be a good 2x on use

[lilac stag]

close minded individuals

[warm marlin]

obviously it’s not a forge

[short radish]

nope im a forever priory signet hater

[lilac pendant]

On opener shoukd i use second secret technique with both trinkets(araz and prism(

[short radish]

when are you pressing it though

still on blade?

[lilac stag]

pressing what? on blades just like forge

[dusty totem]

Bro u do realise that this sim is without another on us equiped

priory+other onuse is very bad

[lilac stag]

bro if a 2 min sims that well for a 90 second class and youre using it as a off set its relavant

[graceful crown]

I've seen a lot of streamers and top parsers do two sectecs in 1 dance, i've been practicing it for a bit but i wanted to know the benefit out of this and also how to manage later dances as when i have my second set of cd's my dance isn't back uptil my shadow daggers are out of duration

[lilac stag]

you're 100% better off with lily or forge for 2nd on use. it's not trash you all are making it out to be. lol

[dusty totem]

Or just do a proper sim of the actual combinations and get a result that u can actually use

instead of this bs

Gear is not linear

[lilac stag]

yes cause everything is proper sim in m+ setups for gearing with trinkets

[weak hamlet]

!craft

[lilac stag]

2x sucks in m+ in sims

yet oddly many run it in some form

[dusty totem]

Okay?

Does not really change the fact that bloodmallet sims are not really a good resource for small differences between trinkets

[short radish]

lily + prism > signet + prism

[dusty totem]

See ^

[lilac stag]

this wasnt even a debate

[haughty rose]

Should be easy to do by just stop generating CP before the next burst. Not sure if it's a DPS increase tho

[lilac stag]

but your sims even show its not that far off lol

[dusty totem]

Why would it be

[short radish]

well yeah because they're essentially the same trinket except signet gives less stats

[lilac stag]

done dick riding then? lol

[short radish]

so of course they'd be close

no

[lilac stag]

go eat your vegamite

[short radish]

i hate signet

[dusty totem]

Yeah but my point is if u just look at bloodmallet they are suposed to be very different

cause bloodmallet is only 1 onuse

[lilac stag]

you must be new here

[short radish]

i will not sit here and let people say signet is a good trinket when lily exists

[graceful crown]

right, so the 10 sec rule as well where u just backstab and or rupture spend

[dusty totem]

?

[lilac stag]

and clearly dont get the relationship @short radish and I have of love, memes and sarcasm

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/brent-my-hero-aus-top-guy-gif-17971844794065873200

we do a minor amount of shittalking

[lilac stag]

but you decided to help, so welcome to the fun

lack of lily drops, a lfr froge and a heroic priory led me to fucking around with it

i should just farm the pvp crates

been lazy

[short radish]

you should

takes an hour

lfr 🐸 🇪

[lilac stag]

maybe I do that today

[fringe palm]

have you considered not using 2 onuse trinkets then

[lilac stag]

I'm acutally surprised signet sims that high on bloodmallet being a 2 min jobber

pacemaker is snooze and i really dont care that much

[graceful crown]

god said hc lily is a dps loss from mythic claw thing :/

[wide maple]

Is shuriken storm a major increase in dps in m+?

[short radish]

storm or tornado?

or toss

[lilac stag]

i

am

scared

[wide maple]

Tornado

Mb

[lilac stag]

[wide maple]

The extra talent we don’t always take

[fringe palm]

safed

[lilac stag]

we avoid it like the plauge

[short radish]

maybe but who cares it's so shit to play with

[karmic harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/tornado-theres-a-tornado-coming-toby-keith-weather-storm-gif-507574093082962712

[short radish]

its not that mcuh more

[lilac stag]

it doesnt do what you think it does

[wide maple]

That’s what I thought and can’t be bothered pressing 1 more cd

[lilac stag]

and it's just not fun

[short radish]

based

pressing tornado sucks

woooooooo i can spread ruptures slightly faster once every minute

who cares

youre not dancing anyway

[wide maple]

But also pressing 4 buttons for your cooldowns to start is already way too many

[lilac stag]

I'm gonna take torando and pop off in my CDs.
reality: used outside of cds to spread rupture and get cdr

[wide maple]

Could have legit combined 2

[short radish]

damn prism + pvp trinket is really far behind @lilac stag

[lilac stag]

priory gaming it is

hahaha

[short radish]

wait

[lilac stag]

maybe lily in vault

[short radish]

should i sim 710

or 704

are you a gilded crest holder?

to generate interest

[wide maple]

I’d rather use shuriken than use double on use

[lilac stag]

i am a scrooge with crests

prism is 710

[short radish]

everything else 704?

[lilac stag]

trinkets, ye

[chrome fern]

i've raid logged for 2 weeks now, cause of poe, i'm nota scrooge with crests, but i dont have any

[lilac stag]

forge is 691 lol

[azure thicket]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[lilac stag]

i just dont like dropping gilded on heroic items unless i know it's gonna be long term

[haughty rose]

well yeah, you can rupture but can't generate after that since you will use all your shadow tech CP's. go i to the next flag with full CP's already or use vanish

[chrome fern]

at some point you will have enough to just not worry

[lilac stag]

not there yet.

[short radish]

yeah i just sent gilded into trinkets to 710

because theyre high value

[haughty rose]

at the end of s2 i had like 1,7k lmao

[lilac stag]

still have 3 mythic pieces and a crafted wrists

[grave quartz]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[rancid crow]

I pugged with a warrior who was doing basically no damage, and every two minutes he would /s “#showtooltip”

[short radish]

[chrome fern]

unlucky

[lilac stag]

@short radish i think pacemaker ultimately better in pug keys. but I like getting tilted by mediocre pulls when I have cds up

2x adds to that tilt

[short radish]

do be like that

the ultimate enemy is always yourself

[lilac stag]

lets me know I'm alive

[short radish]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kf8kb8WfvW9u4fYcfXyJwx

in case you wanted to see pvp trinket vs everything else

[tawny peak]

I dont' think I've had it that bad but I definitely had to fish into my rogue abilities tab to find something that wasn't working correctly before.

[chrome fern]

i fat finger my ping button whenever i meta on my dh

[plush roost]

If u dont have dance in time for next cds youre dancing between too much. General rule is 1 chargr and 35ish seconds cd before cds

[rancid crow]

A few days ago I deleted all of my macros, and copied them over to the “this character only” tab. Later, game froze and I had to altf4 and lost them all

[tawny peak]

/facepalm

[dry zodiac]

I believe hachadino said pvp trinket doesn’t get used correctly. Needs a custom apl or something

[short radish]

so there's a scenario for prism + pvp trinket

excellent

[dry zodiac]

#subtlety message

[high eagle]

Would it be PvP Trinket > PvP Trinket > Prism > ... over and over each CD set?

[hazy breach]

Double on-use with pvp trinket rather

[short radish]

no should still alternate pvp/prism

but dont use pvp + prism anyway

[hazy breach]

Because theres like a super niche specific sequence

[graceful crown]

so 35 sec is the last point of use?

[hazy breach]

Generally yes

[dry zodiac]

Yeah you can get a bunch of extra pvp trinket uses on dances while still having it for every other flag. But sim doesn’t do it

[hazy breach]

Its like a massive amount of headache for very little

[queen plinth]

whats the avg dmg u kinda deal in an ara kara?

[hollow spear]

avg damage is super route and key level dependent

[queen plinth]

i had like a good 14 ara run(felt good for me) and i elft with 7.7 mil. i just dont know if this is good performacne or no. we barely timed the key but my druid was awful

tank wasnt doing anything special. are tanks pulling for your 18 stack prism windows so u pump a shit ton?

i mostly kill important pats with my big bursts.

[hollow spear]

I've seen better, I've seen worse

[queen plinth]

whats the best u saw in an ara

[hollow spear]

Can't say much about a details screenshot

[slow gorge]

I do worse on 10/12

[short radish]

log yourself

and compare like that

[queen plinth]

i can send the log

[short radish]

i wont look at it

[queen plinth]

how would u compare dungeon logs with others

[hollow spear]

M+ log reviews are a pain in the butt

[short radish]

i would log myself

and compare the log

like this

[lilac stag]

kinda what I was seeing as well mess with sims. I'll run some pacemakers today and see if it's noticeable

[short radish]

and then pat myself on the back

and stroke my ego

[slow gorge]

Dude you slay

[warm marlin]

The key% stat is the best thing you can get as a damage comparison but dungeon dps is very dependent on routing and group comp and it’s near impossible to compare yourself

[short radish]

^

if you time the key and didnt come last on dps

you win

[warm marlin]

Well I shouldn’t say best

[short radish]

if you dont time the key

[warm marlin]

Best statistical measure

[short radish]

then you blame everyone including yourself

[queen plinth]

okay, so is 7.7 mil a kinda valid dmg number for a 14?

[short radish]

if its pugs though who cares

[lilac stag]

@warm marlin are you still pirating keys? or ninjaing now

[slow gorge]

Can you be m'y teacher pls i can pay in nature

[queen plinth]

or is this low compared to sub rogues dmg outpout

[short radish]

no

[hollow spear]

7.7 mio on details != 7.7 mio in wcl

[warm marlin]

Unclear as of yet

[short radish]

i dont do push keys

i just vibe

[slow gorge]

I never do more than 10/12

[warm marlin]

It’s either gonna be ninja or the arcane mage I’m gearing this week

[hollow spear]

I get declined for weekly keys

[slow gorge]

Feel useless for me

[short radish]

based

[hollow spear]

we are not the same

[warm marlin]

Arcane is kind of fun

[short radish]

p*shing is cringe

[lilac stag]

i need a weapon to try outlaw

[swift tinsel]

Arcane is quite chill

[lilac stag]

but overall sub vibe is good

[warm marlin]

It’s like sub but with less cd flexibility and not having to think about meeting cdr breakpoints

[hollow spear]

arcane sucks if people are padding your funnel away

[covert meteor]

Just get 3000 for mount

Also, 12s are easier than 10

[warm marlin]

U just press things and if you get downtime ah well

[swift tinsel]

And you get to be ranged

Which is its own QoL

[short radish]

and have a billion defensives

and also not ever have to press the W key

[swift tinsel]

And utility

[queen plinth]

i play rogue since 5 days, and i kinda feel like this gonna be my all time alt or im gonna reroll even

[lilac stag]

LUST

[warm marlin]

Oh yeah and you have infinite defensives and are ranged so naturally have way less to think about in keys and lust and better stops

But you know

[short radish]

party defensive

FUCK

MAGES

[warm marlin]

And decurse

[short radish]

HOLY SHIT I HATE THEM SO MUCH

[swift tinsel]

Lust, supernova, blast wave, frost nova, sheep (kinda)

[lilac stag]

you made it longer than most

[queen plinth]

stfu

[swift tinsel]

Mass barrier

[plush roost]

Yeah thats cool and all

[queen plinth]

mages are goat

[hazy breach]

More stops, buff, lust and mass barrier

[warm marlin]

And funnel

[hazy breach]

Compared to, uh, uh, kidney shot?

[short radish]

and execute

[lilac stag]

hahah

[hazy breach]

And atrophic/numbing

[warm marlin]

Aoe blind

[plush roost]

But do they go "whooooooo" everytime they go invisible? Didnt think so

[lilac stag]

SHIV

[swift tinsel]

Hey we love our dual-resource single target stun

[lilac stag]

dont forget

SHIV

[swift tinsel]

[warm marlin]

You know it’s funny even how supernova is power creep

[short radish]

wooooo blinding the spinny robots in floodgate

yeah when the fuck did mages get aoe stun

[warm marlin]

A 3s aoe stop that doesn’t stun dr

[short radish]

is this a tww thing

[swift tinsel]

Nova was kinda ass in s1

[lilac stag]

speed shroud goated though

[swift tinsel]

Idr ever taking it

[hazy breach]

Its also got less cd than aoe blind, but they also have blast wave which is half the cd of blind

[short radish]

fuck mages man

[ripe flame]

truly the main character of the game

[swift tinsel]

Like they literally have everything

[queen plinth]

well 7.2 actually sounds like its low for a 14

[swift tinsel]

It’s insane

[short radish]

they dont have a bres (yet)

[swift tinsel]

Cables

[short radish]

true, but everyone has that

[swift tinsel]

Which is much better than drums in a brez vs lust alternative

[short radish]

why the fuck is drums so shit

[swift tinsel]

So they have the edge

[short radish]

can they not make drums absolute garbage

[swift tinsel]

And can literally have everything lmao

[hazy breach]

Casual back on DK

[short radish]

I FUCKING HATE MAGES HOLY SHIT

[swift tinsel]

Kekw ofc

It pumps too hard

[queen plinth]

actually being mad about other classes is kinda cringe ngl

[swift tinsel]

Should eat another 3-5% aura

[swift tinsel]

Mage spotted

[short radish]

dont worry i hate warlocks and DKs as well

and augvokers

especially augvokers

delete aug

at least mages do their own thing

aug steals my damage

[queen plinth]

yea im main mage, but still actually being mad about other specs when u can freely reroll is cringe. like we can meme and shit but ACTUALLY crying is wild

giving me ret energy here atm

[short radish]

im somewhat memeing but

i dont want to reroll

i want to play rogue

and be useful

because i enjoy playing rogue

[queen plinth]

sub ropgue hella busted atm

you play the most fun spec

[short radish]

i understand classes need to have "uniqueness" or something

[swift tinsel]

Theres also more enjoyable kits than just damage

[short radish]

but like

what the fuck does rogue have

other than its uniqlely dogshit in utility

[queen plinth]

ngl havent died once in a key yet as sub

defensives are so good

[lilac stag]

youre in a class discord that gets 5 lines of text every 3rd major patch, and a spec that had it's rework pushed back a 1/2 patch and then it was barely 1/2 way completed. you're not going to find any sympathy in this neck of the woods.

[slow gorge]

Poison for raid and that's all xd

[swift tinsel]

Yeah kind of an ivory tower approach

[slow gorge]

And mobility

[swift tinsel]

Pretty disingenuous take

[short radish]

that people constantly ask "how good is rogue poison for X boss. can we drop them?"

[queen plinth]

caue your dev is absolutly stupid

[short radish]

MEANWHILE ROGUE POISON STACKS ON ITSELF

AND STILL NO ONE TAKES MORE THAN ONE

[slow gorge]

Drop?????

[short radish]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[slow gorge]

Who dafuq drop poison

[short radish]

its a shittier paladin DR aura

that doesnt work on half the stuff

[swift tinsel]

Supposedly atro doesn’t stack

[short radish]

sometimes

oh did they randomly patch it?

even though no one was abusing it

sounds about right

[swift tinsel]

Per realz in exile’s chat during race

Said was patched six months ago

But why that wasn’t communicated

Is par for the course lmao

[short radish]

because no one was using it anyway

so who cares

[short radish]

no because blizzard actively just doesn't want to put dev time into a class that barely a fraction of the population plays

its not realz fault

its the wankers in charge of KPIs

and need RoI

[queen plinth]

well the majority of community are hard shitters

how do you want them to play complex specs like sub rogue

[short radish]

why put in dev time for a class that 2% of the players play

[queen plinth]

when they struggle to press 3 buttons as ret or bm

[frigid prawn]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wG59RcjRYoLUT5huh1oFoX Can someone explain me why my singletarget build is dealing more dmg in dungeonslice than my m+ builds? 😄 I wanted to compare if I should take rotten or not

[short radish]

vs a class that 20% of the players play

[jaunty island]

how many flawless stacks are good on second secret technique?

[short radish]

doesnt mattert

its not like sub rogue is the only "complex" class

and its not even complex

[queen plinth]

its way harder than other classes

[lilac stag]

it is for avg wow enjoyer, or do you not remember earlier i got kidnapped

[queen plinth]

and since there is a big skillrange in this game people wont play rogue when its this hard to paly

[short radish]

everyone keeps saying that, yet why do i suck at every spec except sub (and ret paladin i guess)

[queen plinth]

sub is not even easy to play hard to amster

its just hard to play from start

so many buttons to go into your burts

[short radish]

it sounds like that

but not really

its just

Shadow strike as generator
evis/sectech as spender

[queen plinth]

imagine someone struggling to press hammer of light and spend some holy power decides to play rogue

[wheat sentinel]

I find that aspect of that appealing. I genuinely can't play a bm hunter for more than 5m before getting bored.

[short radish]

its literally the same as ret paladin opener

[queen plinth]

no

[short radish]

you sectech instead of hammer of light

[queen plinth]

brother u press 200 buttons in the opener

[karmic harbor]

is warcraftlogs down

[short radish]

then you spam evis instead of templars verdict

[dusk tusk]

can u tell me how to use suriken? is it just spam on 7+ targets or smth proc for it?

[swift tinsel]

Ret also gets infinite spenders and free resources constantly

[queen plinth]

as ret u press 2

3 max

[karmic harbor]

but ye this meme "sub is so hard" thing idgi

[swift tinsel]

So it’s drastically different conceptually

[wheat sentinel]

Not really while bursting

It's pretty simple

[queen plinth]

while bursting yea

then there is cd management

[karmic harbor]

sub is like learn opener and dance combo and you can play the class

arguably more forgiving cause u have so much downtime

[swift tinsel]

Like base kit no optimizations sub is not hard

[iron plover]

Isn’t it less about the actual combo but moreso the CD management that’s hard?

[queen plinth]

casuals wont stand playing this harder spec when they can play easy ass specs

so yea rework rogue to a lil easier and boom u get more players its simple

[wheat sentinel]

Well also the devs blatantly favoring ret also helps.

[karmic harbor]

press 2 dances between blades sometimes and 1 other times isnt rly hard

[queen plinth]

why do you think arcane mage got so many new players in tww s1

cause all this double dipping shit was fun and easy to play

[swift tinsel]

Because it was tuned high af

[karmic harbor]

i got 74 avg playing warlock s1, im at 79 rn on sub rogue

[wheat sentinel]

They nuked the fuck out if arcane in s1 though

[queen plinth]

yea it was overtuned

[short radish]

BoJ (1) -> DT (2) -> DH (3) -> ES (4) -> Wake (5) -> HoL (6) -> Judgement (7) -> HoL (7) -> other generator (7) -> templars verdict (8)

vs

Shadowstrike (1) -> flag (2) -> rupture (3) -> backstab/dance/symbols macro (4) -> sectech (5) -> shadowstrike (5) -> evis (6)

[wheat sentinel]

And it wasn't even that strong really

[queen plinth]

but still it was super clean and easy to play

[wheat sentinel]

Compared to like dk

[short radish]

ret confirmed harder than sub

[queen plinth]

no

[short radish]

you heard it first

[iron plover]

It’s a bit more complicated than that in m+ tho

[queen plinth]

there is a difference of pressing some keys or pressing 3 to 4 buttons in 1 second

people dont want to put the time in to learn that

[short radish]

i dunno the hard part about sub isn't the rotation

its the downtime

[queen plinth]

esepcially if its the casual side of the game who are crying that nobody wants them in their group when they play one buttona ssist

[short radish]

the rotation is so chill man

you press like 8 buttons in small burst

and then afk for 30 seconds

[karmic harbor]

that's what im saying dude

[short radish]

its just people dont understand you have to sit on your cooldowns

[iron plover]

Bro isn’t it always the “competitive” players that are always the whiners

The top %ers are the loudest no?

[queen plinth]

no

[short radish]

and then they go into flag and only have 1 dance and half a symbols with 0 sectech

and go why i do no damage

[swift tinsel]

You should see forums

[queen plinth]

the top whiners are the people wo struggle to clear 10-12s

[karmic harbor]

sure a bit

[swift tinsel]

Def not top %ers complaining there the most

[queen plinth]

whoa re cryin over meta specs when they cant finish 10s

[iron plover]

that’s crazy

All the ppl that can’t finish +10s at this point understand that they booty cheeks and accept it

from my exp

[swift tinsel]

I mean a majority of players don’t see 10’s

Discords are sampling bias that way

[iron plover]

dats true

[short radish]

reminder that getting AOTC puts you in the top 80% of players

[swift tinsel]

And become an echo chamber

Which a lot of folks don’t realize

But it’s important context

[queen plinth]

still i hope u get me, for me sub is not that hard to play aswell , im just trying to optimzie my dmg and master it.
its clearly obvious that casuals and people who play the game for fun dont want to play a spec when its that complicated or when tehre is so many buttons to press in such a small amount of time. when they can play a paladin or the "hey look im a casual and look at my cool kitty cat pet"

or even frost mage

[swift tinsel]

That’s fine

There should be specs like that

You need a spectrum of difficulty

[queen plinth]

which leads to not many people playing the spec which leads to blizzard not giving a f

[short radish]

that's fine, my stance is just that sub is misunderstood of how hard it is

because they approach it from the wrong way

[queen plinth]

i 100% aggree with this

thats why i like sub

but when its difficult less people will play it

so blizzard wont give a f

[swift tinsel]

And difficulty can be either mechanical execution or conceptual uniqueness

[short radish]

sub is one of the only classes (i assume) that you actively sit on your cooldowns for more than 10 or 20 seconds

but the acutal sub rotation is not hard

you build combo points and then you spend combo points

you have 1 builder that matters

[queen plinth]

so if blizzard would rework rogue and make it less difficult more people would play it and you would get more changes

[short radish]

and 2 spenders you decide between after you press sectech

[swift tinsel]

Sub is also interesting bc it can very easily make small changes that would lower the perceived barrier of entry without alienating people who like it’s current design

[short radish]

now are there QoL things that they could do for sub sure.

[strong shoal]

How many times do you want to hit the filter by insulting a dev?

[queen plinth]

im sorry

😄

[short radish]

merge sdance + symbols
make sectech only castable in dance
merge blades + flag

boom sub is like 50% easier

[swift tinsel]

These would go a very long way, at least the bottom two

[rotund urchin]

What should I do when Cold Blood bugs when I switch to FB?

[short radish]

!cbbug

!cbug

[swift tinsel]

I think dance needs a bit more cdr to make double dance between each flag the norm

[short radish]

???? MOROES

[swift tinsel]

Instead of alternating

[short radish]

!fuu

[queen plinth]

yea thats what im thinking, just reduce the buttons kinda

[rotund urchin]

!cbbug

[swift tinsel]

Flag and blades absolutely should be merged though

Into blades, remove flag

[short radish]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: https://wago.io/XfVX1CeQC

[rotund urchin]

kk

ty

[short radish]

np

[swift tinsel]

Make all damage shadow either all the time or always in dance/blades

[strong shoal]

All good, just be a bit more respectful and complain about the company instead of the developer. Most of the time they don't really have a say in things

[short radish]

hate the ceo not the dev

[swift tinsel]

Ye it’s 100% the higher ups that make things the way they are

[short radish]

you think devs have any choice on what they work on

[vale pine]

!cbug

[red raven]

so just come back from my hols and seeing that sub is the way to go in keys now?

[queen plinth]

my main rogue in guild says your dev is on perma vacation in istanbul chilling instead of working on rogue 😄

[swift tinsel]

If devs had unlimited time and resources to work with wow would be in a significantly better state

[short radish]

sure

[strong shoal]

It isn't a single person working on stuff like this

Never was

[swift tinsel]

It’s three devs in a trench coat

Mwahaha

[red raven]

"sure", sarcasm, or "sure" like 'yep'?

[queen plinth]

imo sub feels good in its state, blizzard should fix all these bugs tho

[short radish]

sure

[strong shoal]

Same with assa

[short radish]

sub is fine

[swift tinsel]

Ye I think that’s mostly what people want to see

[short radish]

and really fun

probably the best state we've been in this expansion

[strong shoal]

Assa is fine but if bugs were fixed, it would feel better

[short radish]

it is semi reliant on prism but even without it we're still fine

[swift tinsel]

Reduce bugs to bring rogue to a more baseline-state so they aren’t confounding tuning and other changes

[queen plinth]

assa boring af

sub the goat

[short radish]

yeah agreed

[strong shoal]

Personal opinion

[short radish]

i never want to play assi again in raid

[strong shoal]

But yeah

[short radish]

assi has fake downtime

[red raven]

awesome, ty for that

[swift tinsel]

I played it for one plexus and one loom kill and that was it, rest has been all sub this whole season lol

[short radish]

sub has real downtime

[hazy breach]

I solve this issue by never speccing assa

[short radish]

💯

[graceful osprey]

Rogue will be fixed in 12.0 for sure 100%

[swift tinsel]

I also run logs so I cba to switch off sub bc I’d have to relog

[queen plinth]

i wish

[swift tinsel]

And that screws with logging. Lol

[red raven]

awesome. sub is much more fun, 1005

[mighty citrus]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/im2XVLYfeqX69y6BtgKud9 team prism and lily within margin of error

[red raven]

100%

[mighty citrus]

i always thought prisim is ahead

[short radish]

also you dont need to swap specs as sub all raid

except maybe soulhunters

[swift tinsel]

Nope

[short radish]

you just play same build

all day erry day

[swift tinsel]

I even play it on fract lol

[hazy breach]

I mean you are simming 3 minutes

[limpid sage]

How much dmg are poisons in our dmg breakdown?

[red raven]

that's the seller

[graceful osprey]

Give sub rogue some Kyvesa animation and we chilling

[hazy breach]

The shorter the fight the worse prism is

[swift tinsel]

I literally cannot be bothered to change specs

[mighty citrus]

mb

[swift tinsel]

Instant is like 1.7%ish iirc for me

Maybe a bit less

[short radish]

if you are fighting anything that heals

[swift tinsel]

Haven’t looked in a bit

[short radish]

woundpoison is way more value

[swift tinsel]

Ye

[short radish]

i think first pull eco dome

last pull halls

[limpid sage]

Oh damn that’s quite a bit more

[short radish]

i dunno what else heals

[limpid sage]

OH I FORGOT THAT THEY LEECH

[swift tinsel]

It may be less, I can check logs in a bit

[mighty citrus]

makes sense yes

[limpid sage]

I’m trolling

[short radish]

everyone does

[swift tinsel]

Ye I go wound on first part dome and halls miniboss

[short radish]

(i also forgot when i ran ecodome)

[lilac stag]

Last pull of halls wound goes hard

[short radish]

but so many classes have mortal wounds anyway

i think

feral

dh

[limpid sage]

Some diablo 4 twisting blades type stuff would be really cool

[short radish]

arms war (not sure about feral)

okay maybe not that many classes

[limpid sage]

Esp since we have shadowstep

[short radish]

woooooo rogue poison utility

[short radish]

please do not make me jump in and out of combat

[swift tinsel]

Okay nvm I was way off it’s like 0.7% lol

[hazy breach]

Conversely if the fight is long (like an m+ key) then prism is really really really good

[rocky ocean]

Mm hunter, ww monk, bm hunter pet

[short radish]

k yeah decent amount of classes have that

wooooo rogue utility

we're such a unique class

in how shit our utility is

[rocky ocean]

We have shroud

[short radish]

true. take that druids

[rocky ocean]

Shroud during combat is extra style points

[short radish]

bis for priory running up stairs

saves an extra 20 seconds a key

[limpid sage]

Nono it’s an ability where you stab your target and then after a delay blades fly out of them towards you

[short radish]

no please not more delayed damage

[limpid sage]

xd

[short radish]

WHY IS THAT OUR UNIQUENESS

DELAYED DAMAGE

[swift tinsel]

no delayed no split

[short radish]

THAT DOESNT FUCKING WORK

[swift tinsel]

nonono

no mas

[limpid sage]

I wonder how much of a buff instant sectec would be

All the times I’ve sent cb sectec in the first dance

[swift tinsel]

sectech also needs the clones to be purely cosmetic

attribute all damage to me plz

[limpid sage]

Only to apply a fresh dance with no macabre stacks

[swift tinsel]

akaari retires

[graceful osprey]

They should have our secret tech have our clones do secret tech also so we can secret tech while we secret tech

[swift tinsel]

based

[short radish]

and then those clones have a chance to sectech

[swift tinsel]

I wanna explode cpu's