subtlety

[hazy breach]

Theres still some other jank though so cant push it yet

[warm marlin]

That ring saves me 3-4M gold

Very nice

[scarlet void]

little question, a finisher to maximise dps is best use "Coup de Grace" or "Black Powder" ?

[hazy breach]

Coup de grace

[upbeat cradle]

Guys I got a question about the prism

if we reset the boss for cooldowns

does it also reset the prisms stacks ?

[placid scaffold]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

yes, prism stacks reset on boss pull

[short radish]

@warm marlin goated macro

👍

[upbeat cradle]

does that mean the first use of the trinket will be very low in stats ?

[hazy breach]

Yes you will never have it stacked for pull

on raid bosses

Starting a key or pulling a raidboss resets the stacks

[golden harbor]

Was there a way to request a log review?

[karmic harbor]

!log

[golden harbor]

!log

[spice matrix]

which macro

[karmic harbor]

shd sod bs

[short radish]

#subtlety message

start reading from there

[rocky ocean]

Shadow horse dance

[short radish]

#showtooltip
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null
/cast Backstab

is the macro

[warm marlin]

Ya it’s goated

[short radish]

im probably still fucking up my rotation but i had one pull tonight

[warm marlin]

I’m halfway to the muscle memory of using it for all dances that I would start with a builder

[short radish]

where i pressed 2nd sectech in tfd

[warm marlin]

And I’m not dropping gcds anymore

[short radish]

at like 2 seconds before it ran out

and holy shit

damage

[stiff kiln]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[warm marlin]

The full clones in tfd mm

[short radish]

press it for all flag go's right?

[warm marlin]

If you’re not insta opening with a finisher yes

[short radish]

ye

[warm marlin]

But I meant regular dances too

[short radish]

i always flag rupture

[warm marlin]

Feels good

[short radish]

wait dance + symbols for regular dance as well?

[stiff kiln]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[warm marlin]

well you can use it there as well if conditions are fine

Most of your dances open with dance symbols bs anyway

[short radish]

true

ahhhhhhh

why the fuck does this have to be broken

[warm marlin]

You don’t have to though

[wheat sentinel]

Just started sub yesterday but I assume the bs is for macabre

[warm marlin]

No real risk of dropping gcd

[short radish]

yeah i think in non flag

i dont care

[warm marlin]

There’s some other devious stuff I have cooking

[short radish]

oh?

[warm marlin]

I almost hit the full sectec in tfd relatively often

I made a wa bar similar to the coup one to see the sectec clone hit timer

To know if I have to chain dance or not

Sometimes the timing is as close as first clone hits in tfd and second doesn’t

Need to know to insta chain

[short radish]

man

why cant blizzard just delete this clone bullshit

acutally such a cursed timeline

[gaunt bluff]

is the first dance talent only better in ST if i can reliable get 2 sectecs inside the first dance?

or generally

[short radish]

no

always take it

unless the fight is 9 minutes long

and even then

[swift tinsel]

its just a bonus

[short radish]

still take it

[gaunt bluff]

ok

[swift tinsel]

if you can get 2

[limpid sage]

Anyone know if bubbling wax is enhanced?

now that it's live

[short radish]

its enchants

so i dont think wax/oils are affected

[swift tinsel]

correct, its only the enchants so not wax

[limpid sage]

ahhhhhh

[swift tinsel]

or oil/stones

[queen kraken]

just in case i get myth gloves and pants i suppose

thats what i wanna / will take 😄

but itsj ust the "sim your vault" answer that i wanted to adress 🤪

[compact violet]

Hey guys, the amp on dimensius is very hard to fit our 2nd sectec right

i always fill i need one more gcd

[limpid sage]

am I hallucinating or didn't it say mana oil before

[warm marlin]

It did

That’ll teach you to trust a blizzard tooltip

[mossy spear]

hmm hc araz or mythic chest

decisions decisions ...

taking raid loot out of vaults feels so horrid xD

[short radish]

i learnt my lesson with "secret technique does physical damage"

[warm marlin]

[cold schooner]

Guys what is the best way to sim M+ for sub? Like how many targets?

[short owl]

Dslice

[lucid jackal]

You need blessing of autmn

[mighty citrus]

In raid I always feel like it fucks my opener, as my sectec is always rdy between dances

I mean if you would chain dances, there is still the chance it’s not buffed right?

[autumn flame]

this shit is so ass

[lucid jackal]

Is what it is

Also don't rupture

If you get autumn

[mossy spear]

how much of an upgrade is prism? isnt sub kinda unplayable without it? seems so broken

[lucid jackal]

Just do flag dance symbols sectec

[short radish]

its not unplayable

but prism makes the game a lot more fun

its not like prism is 20% ahead or something

more like 2%

[compact violet]

hoooooo

[warm marlin]

You think?

[compact violet]

i was like how the fuck all thoses rogues manage to get a second sectec after 4 evi

when i need 5

[warm marlin]

I saw zac with a cook of just triple pressing symbols to fit it in but not sure if he had autumn

[compact violet]

he had

they all

exept the poor 6#

[warm marlin]

Smh

I’ll do it

I believe

[small mantle]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[acoustic matrix]

For me it was a 5% upgrade in sims. 7.5 without lily

!feint

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[compact violet]

u can if u have a triple proc

[mossy spear]

sims are troll on trinkets this season anyways

[compact violet]

but ur still one gcd in

[mossy spear]

friends guilds apl is saying double on use is worse than procc

[compact violet]

on dummy

most fight, and particulary the 2 last, u need the double on use

[acoustic matrix]

Fractilius is a patchwerk fight tbh and it's dominated by araz prism

[mossy spear]

^

[compact violet]

bcs most of rogue dont have antenna

cuz they dont play it on last 2

[acoustic matrix]

Nah I doubt that's the reason

[compact violet]

and everyone need it

[warm marlin]

You certainly don’t need araz on nexus

[short radish]

^

[warm marlin]

Especially after add hp nerf

[acoustic matrix]

The top loggers literally have access to any loot they want

[compact violet]

Still, the best rogues dont have antenna (most of them) cuz they are on a guild who manage the trinket correctly

[acoustic matrix]

If they wanted Antenna they'd get it

[compact violet]

u dont get a mythic antenna easyly when the whole world is on it

[twilit oracle]

Can someone explain how I got tier myth chest if I only kill the first 3 bosses in mythic?

[compact violet]

if u have a better alternative for last bosses

[acoustic matrix]

When you're rank 1ing most fights you do

[hazy breach]

You can get tier

[short radish]

tier has a chance to roll on any of the slots

no matter what

[hazy breach]

Regardless

[twilit oracle]

ohh

I didn't know that thanks

don't even know what to take for vault

[compact violet]

and if i get the top 6 on fracti

[hazy breach]

If you dont have chest then obviously take chest

[compact violet]

there is 4 passiv

[loud tiger]

so bubbling wax is not a thing ?

[compact violet]

vs 2 araz

[hazy breach]

Its like the best slot

[warm marlin]

@lucid jackal thoughts

[compact violet]

(and one araz is getting double autumn)

[spice matrix]

[lucid jackal]

He had autumn

[warm marlin]

ye I’m coping about our lack of hpal

[lucid jackal]

If you don't get autumn your flag is delayed

[twilit oracle]

but also got these 2 trinkets

[lucid jackal]

I mean its fine you still kill the boss lol

It just sucks

[compact violet]

ye you press it in time but dmg hit after the fade of amp

[twilit oracle]

just did the sim, pacemaker and sacbrood at 717 ilvl (ilvl I can upgrade it to this week) is a dps loss

biggest is chest, just gonna take that

[bright sundial]

Hello everyone so ive done something bad been playing with symbols macroed to dance and every raid fight missing 5 dance, according to wow analysis, and way to fix that?

[warm marlin]

Maybe there’s a world where by the time we get there I can sac the second platform for better p3 damage if that’s the check

[compact violet]

there is only 3 trinket this tier : prism araz and antenna 😄 (if u have acces to mm prism and araz)

[acoustic matrix]

Fair but still

And isn't Araz bis for a ton of classes too ?

[swift tinsel]

yes

like most

if not all dps specs

[acoustic matrix]

So why would rogues get prio on araz but not antenna ?

[compact violet]

u dont get prio on araz

u just have more prio on araz or prism than antenna

[acoustic matrix]

Then you argument of most rogues can't have antenna falls

[compact violet]

bcs there is more ppl ahead of u on antenna

[hallow night]

Quick question about coup optimization (again). In single target (no shadow blades) is it worth using 1x shuriken storm between coups assuming you have premed available for it? Normally people enter dance with 0 combo points and back stab for premed, but in theory if you have a coup become ready as you’re about to enter cds, you could dance > sod > sec tec > shadowcraft trigger > coup > shuriken storm (premed) > coup 2. Is that correct?

[twilit oracle]

I got araz the first kill we did

[compact violet]

on araz there is like deva / SP / WW

ww dont exist

[acoustic matrix]

and was denied antenna ?

[twilit oracle]

no i'll probably get that too

half my raid got it in vault today

[compact violet]

and feral 😄

[warm marlin]

Shadowcraft can’t trigger while premed is active

so this would not happen

[compact violet]

so ye sub is actually prio for araz if ur lootmaster is using his brain at 10%

(and if he plan to put u into king and dimy)

[hallow night]

So you could press shuriken storm after sec tec

And coup back to back

[autumn flame]

imagine playing with a hpally amirite?

[warm marlin]

potentially

[wheat sentinel]

So I think I'm doing the burst sequences right, but fumbling a bit between the burst windows in keys. Any tips there? My sub is rusty lol

[hallow night]

Is the damage loss of a shuriken storm worth not munching unseen blades?

[sand patio]

why symbols consume all charges if I keep spamming and dance not?

[hazy breach]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[lucid jackal]

Because every dps in the game wants antenna

[swift tinsel]

can't cast dance while dance is up

[compact violet]

just to say, carefull about bias like this, its also easier to just play double on use and optimize ur burst

And the kill time is mattering a lot for a double on use

[wheat sentinel]

Also what's like, generally the best use for tornado? I assume we'd only really take it on keys like fg with mass pulls

[lucid jackal]

Not at all

[acoustic matrix]

Even M+ is dominated by araz prism

[wheat sentinel]

oh, fun.

[compact violet]

ofc m+ is double use

[loud tiger]

did anyone sim bubbling wax yet? is it better then whetstones

[compact violet]

actually antenna is better on what ? Plexus / loom / frct for sure

[swift tinsel]

it is for some people but not everyone

[compact violet]

maybe dh / araz

[loud tiger]

depends on what ?

[swift tinsel]

probably their gear

[loud tiger]

hmm

[wheat sentinel]

seeing the sub sims for prism reminds me of arcane with spymaster.

lol

[swift tinsel]

#tc-research message can sim yourself and find out

[loud tiger]

ye have to i guess

ill tell yall

[acoustic matrix]

Somewhat related but I got mythic pacemaker from vault, would you recommend swapping this over heroic lily for m+ ? I have 704 prism alongside it

[lucid jackal]

Antenna is more contested, and also a lot of people seem to think that sub needs double on use leads to more people thinking sub needs it. It's a bit circular

[swift tinsel]

ye people read wowhead gearing lists as gospel

[fleet wharf]

Double on use is like barely better than prism+passive except on dimensius?

[compact violet]

No idea, i'm not a great mm+ player. Just doing 8 +10/+12 every week for vault and crest

[wheat sentinel]

I like how double on use is 100% in your control.

[swift tinsel]

gutting mythic bosses is another way to make double on-use less impactful

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah what if antenna doesn't proc during your cds ?

[loud tiger]

it does

[warm marlin]

You kite the orbs to force it

It’s definitely a bit of a mental burden

[fleet wharf]

could you elaborate a bit more?

[swift tinsel]

dont collect them

[wheat sentinel]

My rogue's my alt so I have to try to pug to soulbinder later >_>

[warm marlin]

It’s like branch if you remember it, the orbs float around

[marble sail]

with the new raid enchant buff, does anything change for us or is raidbots updated?

[swift tinsel]

nab the orb going into cds

[left flame]

Is it bad to macro symbols into dance

[warm marlin]

They live for up to 15s so you can kite them a while

[fleet wharf]

Smart

[loud tiger]

new raid enchant buff ?

[fleet wharf]

You need to have separate binds because you don't always want to press them at the same time

[karmic harbor]

if you have seperate dance/syombols keybinds its fine

[marble sail]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/hotfixed-weapon-enchantment-buff-bigger-than-expected-with-bugged-raid-renown-378456

[fleet wharf]

yea, tbh I also like having the two bound for when I'm opening with flag + SB

[karmic harbor]

im converted to shd/sod/bs macro

[swift tinsel]

what are the conditions for that kind of macro?

[left flame]

I just notice I’m fucking up the shadow dance -> symbols >backstab and not applying find weakness sometimes bc I’m doing shadow dance ->backstab -> symbols

[lucid jackal]

And what if a bomb drops on your head

[fleet wharf]

is it still just a .5% loss to not BS as the first builder on opener?

[lucid jackal]

What if your forge and prism cd sets get no Eb procs

[warm marlin]

A truth bomb if you will

[lucid jackal]

LOL

[ionic thorn]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[left flame]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[naive summit]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fleet wharf]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[naive summit]

light mode is a sin

[ripe flame]

Every opportunity I get, "If my grandmother had wheels she'd have been a bicycle "

[oblique fable]

is a heroic ritual forge paired with heroic prism better than a mythic antennae + heroic prism?

[fleet wharf]

sim it

[severe prism]

Does it matter wich enchant is on mainhand and offhand ? i'm not sure how it is working

[hazy breach]

Does not matter

[lucid jackal]

Literally though

[oblique fable]

yes, but i was thinking because of the different damage amps on a couple of bosses it would be better to have a phat prism stack later on so double on use would win out since you can use ritual forge on pull. idk if sims capture instances like that.

[fleet wharf]

I'm pretty sure you don't lose out that much on the smaller bursts when you have a passive trinket. The only fight where having forge makes a big difference is dimensius nexus king apparently.

You can probably just run antennae + prism and be ok most of the time

[eager locust]

Is it normal that I find myself running out of symbols during M+? Did an Eco Dome where tank was perma chain pulling and I found myself constantly having to wait for my symbols even when ive had two charges of SD

[sand roost]

how activly are you guys using rupture in aoe?

[acoustic matrix]

I don't know about antenna proc rate so I assumed it was likely it wouldn't proc during your cds

[lucid jackal]

It's mostly a nexus king thing tbqh

[fleet wharf]

I haven't gotten to nexus king, is it to have the big burst for the adds/trash on platform and big burst on the amp phase?

[lucid jackal]

Forge prism just lines up perfectly

You get forge on platform and then 18 into the burn

[fleet wharf]

Good to know. Surely I'll be given a forge any day now

[acoustic matrix]

Isn't it the same for Loom Araz and dimensius ?

lots of amp phases this tier

[lucid jackal]

Well I wouldnt call loom an "Amp phase"

its the entire 2nd half of the fight

[acoustic matrix]

yeah but you bl at this mark

[lucid jackal]

prism forge is also a bit awkward on dimensius

Because you aren't gaining stacks during flight

[short radish]

You lust on pull for loomi

[lucid jackal]

U have to do forge, no trinket, prism, forge, prism (here is burn)

and its like a 14 stack

Which is still good

[acoustic matrix]

Oh you don't save for amp phase on mythic ?

[short radish]

No. Hardest part is p1

[acoustic matrix]

Even Araz on an amp phase is very good no ?

[warm marlin]

I assume you don’t think antenna is better

[lucid jackal]

Yeah on araz its good too

[warm marlin]

I finally have the joy of choice this week

[acoustic matrix]

No i mean trinket araz

[lucid jackal]

No, your antenna uptime on platforms r super shit

[warm marlin]

ya ok

[lucid jackal]

U just have to manually bind both trinkets

[eager locust]

Any ideas about this? ----> Is it normal that I find myself running out of symbols during M+? Did an Eco Dome where tank was perma chain pulling and I found myself constantly having to wait for my symbols even when ive had two charges of SD

[lucid jackal]

Wrong reply

[lucid jackal]

sounds like ur doing smthing wrong

[acoustic matrix]

Most likely a spam cast thing, get the macro

Symbols is off the gcd so it's very easy to cast it twice if you spam the button

Or even three times if you're the giga chad rank 1 heroic soulbinder

[lucid jackal]

U might have to trinket P1 but

at least for early prog but

We hold DPS for so long in the phase now

[karmic harbor]

On big aoe pulls you get dance back quicker than sod could be that

[lucid jackal]

but first getting to platform 1 u might want to send both trinkets but

[young zealot]

hey, sorry if this is annoying, finally got the forge/prism combo
do you generally send forge on pull and prism on 9 stacks after 90 sec and then alternate
or send like a 1 stack prism on pull and alternate from there to get a big prism at 3 mins?

or is it more based on your guilds kill timers and i have to use my own brain?

[lucid jackal]

forge prism repeat

Unless a fight asks u to otherwise, which is like, only dimensius

[young zealot]

okay thankyou!

[uncut oriole]

So if I have hero prism/lily and champ antenna, based on the convo from above it's better to run prism lily on short fights, and on nexus king?

[warm marlin]

We’ll see later today

[eager locust]

That might be it tbf

[lucid jackal]

If u are constantly sitting at 2 dance charges and 0 symbols you are fucking something up

[eager locust]

Anyone care to look at the log? I've already figured out I need to be BPing but I dont think that makes a difference for SoD https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7gjzK6VwY8RrcZA2?fight=15

[nocturne shard]

how many targets do i click bp over evic

[fleet wharf]

just start sending it at 4+ targets

[karmic harbor]

depends how big the pulls are

[nocturne shard]

4+ just slam bps?

[karmic harbor]

well ig idk what he means by constantly

[nocturne shard]

also another quick one

should i have 2 dances up for every flag window?

[lucid jackal]

stop pressing symbols dance at like 32 seconds

[nocturne shard]

returning plaer havent toucheed sub in 2 expacs

[karmic harbor]

i just did a key and there were times i had dance but no sod idk about 2 charges tho

[fleet wharf]

don't you want to save up to like 3 dances when you have 3 min prism built up?

[lucid jackal]

U can if u want

[fleet wharf]

why is it a choice?

[sand roost]

Always rupture in aoe or are there certain points where i just spam bp because of too many mobs

[lucid jackal]

Rupture is always good but casting rupture costs time

[weak hamlet]

Hello guys

If anyone could chime in, im currently using netherprism + lilly. Would you say that's a good idea or should i stick to active + passive? If I would use both active should i rotate 1 trinket with big cd 1 trinket with SD SoD ST?

[fleet wharf]

you can sim it for the relevant content. kind of depends on what you have as a passive trinket

[spice monolith]

good combo if u can't get forge, p much only using double on use for last 2 in raid

[weak hamlet]

Hero prism hero pacemaker myth lilly

[weak hamlet]

How about m+?

[weak hamlet]

Double active is a minor increase in sims

[spice monolith]

No exp with it this season but I'd say double on use is good for m+ too since you can stack prism using lily a few times in a row

[fleet wharf]

I thought you really only wanted double on use with forge?

[acoustic matrix]

simple maths here and that might be wrong but the idea remains.
Rupture does 1.7mil damage x2 for 6 combo points so 3.4million damage. If your target survives the duration it is your most efficient spender by far

[fleet wharf]

then stick to the double active

[weak hamlet]

Dont have much exp using prism but thats what i had in mind

Since it takes some time to build 18 stacks

[fleet wharf]

think of it this way, sub is the only class that gets to do like most of its damage in a 24 ish window. Prism gives you a gigantic burst. Your goal is to use that edge as well as you can. Generally speaking, you should look to use prism at 18 stacks as much as possible

[acoustic matrix]

Most top logs in M+ use prism on cd when not on double on use.

inb4 "M+ Logs lul"

[uncut oriole]

In pugs prism+passive is probably fine. Double on use can work really well in coordinated groups so you can plan around an 18 stack prism, but sending every cd set with 9 stacks is fine.

[weak hamlet]

What about double on use?

[lucid jackal]

Prism is just the best on use trinket lol

It doesnt matter if its 9 or 18

Its more budget than lily, and the only other trinket is forge, which is 2 mins which on its own, is bad

[acoustic matrix]

Double on use is very simple. You use prism every other cd and your other on use when you're not prisming

Unless you know you're gonna have a big pull next and your current cds are meh

like a boss dying

you can save prism for that big pull

[weak hamlet]

Noted thank you lads for all the info 🙏

[alpine wraith]

and sometimes you can even send both if it is the final boss

and see silly things at the end

quad dance with 18 stack and forge is very entertaining end of a key

[weary crystal]

Imagine having a prism 😪

[acoustic matrix]

Honnestly it's not too hard

[weak hamlet]

I just bought mine 300k 😂

[acoustic matrix]

You make a full int raid for both normal and heroic every week

Quickly enough you get it

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[acoustic matrix]

People flame you but game is game

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ionic thorn]

How troll is it to BP on Araz?

[lucid jackal]

Fairly

[spice monolith]

just funnel

raid will thank u

[ionic thorn]

So basically just never press the button even when there are 5+ targets

[spice monolith]

yes

[lucid jackal]

On specifically forge? Yes

[ionic thorn]

I’d thank the raid if I wasn’t assigned to every soak and if we could knock the adds into the pool instead of going behind the pool and if we didn’t move the boss out on the first echo spawn

[warm marlin]

I don’t think there’s any raid boss this tier you would BP on

[ionic thorn]

[spice monolith]

the soaks actually annoyed me lmfao

being on all 3 when other rogue isn't on a single one

😭

[ionic thorn]

I mean wouldn’t you do it on soulbinder?

[spice monolith]

Not knocking is a very friendly strat though, way less prep

[ionic thorn]

Specifically for the big add waves

[warm marlin]

idk maybe but the adds die insta anyway

if u were trying to parse sure

[spice monolith]

Tbh no, in theory for the big wave it's probably better but so far they just fall over so just keep hitting boss

[ionic thorn]

Kekw man

Yall not in my raid

[spice monolith]

if they're living pad your heart out

hehe

[ionic thorn]

That shit lives until the knockback

[spice monolith]

💀 💀 💀

[patent lichen]

When your raid leader asks you to save all your CDs for adds on loomithar so others can get good parses

I hate it here

[ionic thorn]

You should ask your raid leader to make ranged do their job

[patent lichen]

T.T

[ionic thorn]

I’m permabenched on that fight now

[patent lichen]

Oh?

[ionic thorn]

Something something rogue bad because can’t swap

(Was playing sin)

[patent lichen]

Lol ya i feel that one

[ionic thorn]

Me swapping means me doing like 10m total on tangles lmao

[patent lichen]

I was doing 300m before they asked me to save all CDs ...

What more do they want from me

[ionic thorn]

I got the dagger and the trinket though so eh

[patent lichen]

Oh fuck it then lol

[ionic thorn]

Ye I’ll gladly sit the boss

Even have avoidance on the trinket

[patent lichen]

My overall is horrendous lol

[astral axle]

except dev evokers, i do not understand why on loomithar ranged A) act like attacking the webs will give them ebola B) act like touching/getting rooted by the webs gives them a damage amp

[ionic thorn]

Also idk why they’re so crazy about the tangles anyways, they’re dying well before it becomes a problem and they’re not inherently the reason people are dying

They’re dying because they don’t move

Either out of a completely avoidable web or circle

[astral axle]

deadass fr

[spice monolith]

I got to sit out everytime we've killed loom heh..

[patent lichen]

I have to do 3.5m overall because or ranged sucks

T.T

[ionic thorn]

Even dev can hit them like it’s not crazy difficult, if they position properly, their breath should do a good bit of damage

Obviously they’re not going to engulf them

But the cleave should be ok

[novel quail]

do prism stacks reset on key start?

[hazy breach]

Yes

Starting a key, pulling a raid boss or unequipping the trinket resets the stacks

[novel quail]

word thanks

[graceful rock]

Is there a DH I should target the entire time on soul hunters? Or is it a guild by guild basis thing?

[swift tinsel]

I sit the vdh most of the time

[astral axle]

ye vdh has the most hp and wiggles the least

[graceful rock]

The pink nameplate?

Ignore my name customization

[swift tinsel]

Ye, darksorrow

[queen plinth]

how to deal big pumper dmg 🙁

aint no way people leave floodgates with 12 mil overall

[swift tinsel]

push correct buttons at correct time

[queen plinth]

and im closely getting 8

[graceful rock]

Dungeon Overall is a more coordinated effort

[vale pine]

• 1. get netherprism
• 2. stack it up to 18
• 3. combine it with your cooldowns in a big pull or during a damage amp phase

[queen plinth]

thats what i do

-.-

[vale pine]

nice

[queen plinth]

destroyed pack before third boss felt good

still dont understand how people do 50 mil burst

[iron plover]

12 M overalll sheesh

[mystic bough]

You only want to use it once you've reached 18 stacks?

[devout jackal]

Rumi is bis

[vale pine]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[iron plover]

Do people still pre-pot in m+

[alpine wraith]

pre pot has not been a thing since like 4 or 5 years

[iron plover]

oh wtf

did they remove it?

[alpine wraith]

dont remember if they took it out in sl or df

pot just goes on 5 min cd now

[iron plover]

DF cause I was doing it last time I played which was in S2 SL

[devout jackal]

People still dps pot though yes

[iron plover]

Ye I meant potting before the m+ starts to get the buff rolling and have potion off cd

[fallow ginkgo]

you can do it not sure if its worth depending on the key

[iron plover]

But didn’t hacha just say it gets put on a 5m CD?

[fallow ginkgo]

once the m+ starts it refreshes its cd

[astral axle]

You can pot before the key is activated. And when the key starts and the pissmist + countdown begins your pot will be off cd (ie ready to use again)

[iron plover]

Idk man I was hitting 40m burst on big momma with only Lily and seaforium

Maybe stack shadow craft on the pull right before?

And pot of course - but it all depends on how big your tank is pulling

[iron plover]

thx!

[alpine wraith]

ah that is a totally diff thing

i though you meant on bosses

yea if you pot just before key is put you can use it again

[astral axle]

i thought the same thing when i first read it hacha haha

[alpine wraith]

yea havent heard of pre pots in a long while

it is just potting pre key in my brain now kinda

[queen plinth]

do you guys have your pot macrod to something?

i really cba to press that button aswell

[alpine wraith]

no i dont own a port

they are very expensive

ah yea i have it on shift v

standalone

[iron plover]

Oops! My fault - I don’t really know the terminology yet

[warm marlin]

I have a bind for keys but I’m lazy and macro it to different things depending on the raid fight

[queen plinth]

anybody got a weakaura that plays a sound when coup is up

[stiff stirrup]

what are the 2 slots you can craft dawnthread lining now?

[wheat sentinel]

What's ideal in m+ with blades having 30s left? Hold dance, or send a mini dance if you think you can farm enough cdr?

My burst seems solid but I'm trying to figure out what to do between bursts.

[warm marlin]

Depends, can you farm back and hit your cdr breakpoints before flag, will you overcap if you don’t send now, will you have enough symbols charges for flag if you press right then

Do you need to kill the current pack faster or can you sandbag a bit

[crisp lion]

they do it sstill in the game

[swift tinsel]

idk the last time I prepotted anything

been years

[soft kayak]

when do i want to use my Netherprism active? always with Shadowblades/Secret technique or wait for 18 stacks

[vale pine]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[swift tinsel]

either or

[soft kayak]

ty

[grim pewter]

this is the hardest call to make sometimes when planning cds. that last 10% can last a longg time in higher keys.

[soft kayak]

also can i prestack prism before dungeon?

or does it reset

[grim pewter]

it resets

[wheat sentinel]

it resets

[soft kayak]

alr ty ty

[wheat sentinel]

it's still really funny to me that they gave sub blade flurry, but better.

[soft kayak]

nimble?

[wheat sentinel]

ye

[soft kayak]

yeah its insane

[vale pine]

you can't

[vale pine]

its actually the exact same, with almost all the bugs and issues

[wheat sentinel]

Oh, delightful.

[lilac stag]

It’s better because we actually have CDs

[grim pewter]

oh no way. are the bugs documented somewhere? id love to read up on that

[lilac stag]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[grim pewter]

oh wow nice ty

[thick echo]

this + the burst design are insane but impact so much the game that we have to be the lowest single target sim and we must relay on damage amp 🙂

[lilac stag]

We don’t have a video complaining like the red channel. We just take it.

[vale pine]

some things are just weirdness of spells

[stiff yew]

would it really kill blizzard to make the 2nd coup free cost

[vale pine]

the entire concept of finishers costing energy and combo points is something

[golden lark]

Is there fr an actual trick to reseting raid bosses with vanish or is it just buggy?

[vale pine]

i would argue is extremely brutal for anyone who is used to the very simplified versions blizz developed based on rogue's builder/speder system

[swift tinsel]

this really is kinda weird when you look at the modern game compared to other specs

esp after playing a bunch of windwalker recently

[lilac stag]

Pressing more than 4 buttons also really weird in modern game

[vale pine]

like you can play most specs

and have almost no cooldown management

no downtime

[swift tinsel]

also casters having mana is weird

[vale pine]

just send stuff and do damage

[swift tinsel]

since only arcane cares about it

[vale pine]

so subtlety is diffrent, but rogue in general is

[swift tinsel]

its functionally not there

[vale pine]

most don't have mana anymore

[lilac stag]

it’s like backstab

[vale pine]

^^

[lilac stag]

“Immersion”

[swift tinsel]

even warlocks can use their spenders with just shards, no mana

that's for their builders

but most casters do indeed still have mana

[granite river]

is simming double on use supported ? specifically araz + prism

[queen rain]

started playing sub this week and ive never had a spec crit me this hard trying to learn it

newer player so not used to planning my cds a month before i fight the boss to baseline do any damage

[lilac stag]

wait til it changes on reclears.

[warm marlin]

Half the fun is fixing the mrt note every week surely

[dire spoke]

does leaving key > re-entering after gate drops not work now

[high eagle]

I sat in town, put the opener rotation on one monitor, and spammed that all day on target dummies. No lie, I spent days on days, doing that. You basically just become a human bot executing a script. Doing that and then reading the interactions. The spec became fluid.

[lilac stag]

I love MRT note gaming.

[granite river]

this shit telling me forge + prism a dps loss over forge + pacemaker

[vale pine]

don't know, tell me if you find out

[lilac stag]

Link sim

I’m on mobile but I’m sure someone can look at it.

[clever delta]

stare

[dire spoke]

i've been told it works for netherprism, i know for sure it works for DRE for enhance

[clever delta]

hold

[wintry heart]

Does tier from the Queen Ansurek tier even work anymore?

[swift tinsel]

I'd imagine it still does

but its also like 90 ilvls behind current

[wintry heart]

Yes, I am just curious why breaking that 2 piece is such a big loss when one of the pieces would be climbing 60 ilvl

[swift tinsel]

[upbeat sorrel]

u guys dont use RC loot?

[jagged rover]

I'm waiting to see shoulders on mythic. We've gotten 2x bow drops at least twice

[upbeat sorrel]

[clever delta]

its hc pug

[jagged rover]

fractilus last night we got 2x leather boots 🙃

[clever delta]

i have crafted one but atleast i have mog now

[hazy breach]

Link, but presumably its in dslice

[upbeat sorrel]

its ok in 11.2.7.5 they'll let us catalyze into reshii wrap boots

[hazy breach]

Not sure why it wouldnt say prism+pace though

[jagged rover]

https://raider.io/characters/us/hyjal/Izzirogue
My gear is silly. My best shoulders are the ones I have on, and then I have myth track in all my other tier slots

[clever delta]

i dont feel like doing antenna mini game anyway

[dire spoke]

okay it "does work" but you have to be in a loading screen out of the key as the timer goes from 4 > 0

so quite unreliable

[haughty rose]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[ebon fjord]

do we have any weap enchant changes with the new buff?

[hazy breach]

no

[warm marlin]

After not seeing any daggers all season, 2x loomithar and 1x nexus king dagger dropped this week

[clever delta]

not loot for bingsu

[warm marlin]

I got daggers on daggers now

[clever delta]

im suppose to try minupulate those antena orbs as sub right

[warm marlin]

yea u can kite them for up to 15s and then the buff lasts 10

Usually can overlap them during a dance

[clever delta]

yeah i think im tracking the duration of it

how long become its gona

the forge look like only boss i would spin antena at tho

[warm marlin]

I think it’s good on loomie, soul hunter, fract

debatable on forge idk I didn’t prog it

[clever delta]

im just looking at logs

[mystic bough]

Does that mean we hold cds if prism is on 8 stacks? Or just send it?

[clever delta]

does the raid buff change anything for us

im stiull running double crit ench on weps

[wheat sentinel]

is sub actually the lowest? lol

I main m+ for rogue so that's fine ig

[hazy breach]

Yes we have the bladeflurry/psychic link/nimble flurry curse

Too strong cleave so ST is undertuned

But atleast its useful this tier

[lucid jackal]

People legit have no idea how this game works

Is what ive learned this expasnion

[mighty citrus]

thats why they ask questions no? :p

[slate lantern]

blizzard exclusively makes decisions to maximize shareholder value, everything else is cut

delete all classes and specs besides ret pally and bm hunter

oh and druids but they cant do combat they just collect new forms

[spare quiver]

!spreadsheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

I was messing around on my bm hunter a bit ago and I felt like I was trying to do too much by pressing more than four things

it really is night and day between some specs

like you make zero considerations for most of your button presses

[hazy breach]

Vault did not contain a prism im afraid, but it dropped in hc atleast

So no 704 curse

[lucid jackal]

Talking about people talking about like,

Spec tuning

People are just so lost and confused

[mighty citrus]

ah i see

i think people still are to worried about the minmaxdetails whilst not doing the basics right

how does give a serious shit about tuning

you can deal with it

[lucid jackal]

The fact that any human being is still using pre raid relase ST patchwork sims to evaluate how good x spec is vs y spec is just like

[mighty citrus]

or you can quit the game or change the class

[lucid jackal]

So beyond lost at understanding the game

And a massive majority of ppl do

[mighty citrus]

meta here meta there

they are brainwashed

[zealous basin]

hi guys

[swift tinsel]

or ignoring sim results bc X trinket is "A tier in so-and-so's tier list"

[zealous basin]

how do u sim bubbling wax?

[swift tinsel]

when math is literally telling them something is better

[lucid jackal]

With a custom sim

[west tide]

guys we reset our loot seed and a prism dropped

[lucid jackal]

I can just tell u its better

[vale pine]

today we learned that guy loves to be around people who use pathwerk as their prefered analysis tool

[lucid jackal]

LOL

Yeah

[west tide]

sub st 🙁

[upbeat sorrel]

Is wax easy to get

[lucid jackal]

Yeah it just takes like, 10 minutes to get 50 or so

[gaunt bluff]

what bosses was forge + netherprism bis on?

[graceful osprey]

Super easy, there’s a quick quest chain and then you can spam pickpocket on the kobolds

[upbeat sorrel]

Sick

I'm tired of buying whetstones

[lusty acorn]

hey guys can i send coup on any cp or always try to get max?

[upbeat sorrel]

Price is too damn high

[lucid jackal]

well u should be using mana oils, not whetstones

[upbeat sorrel]

Although yesterday someone bribed me 100k to boot a dh from our pug

[gaunt bluff]

someone help real quick 🙏

[mighty citrus]

oh i missed that, i thought haste is poopoo

[upbeat sorrel]

Same

[swift tinsel]

it also gives crit

which is not

[graceful osprey]

From what I was told, last two bosses, but I’m probably going try forge and prism on some other bosses as well

[vale pine]

whestone is fine

mana oil and wax simms highest

tho wax is annoying to get

[upbeat sorrel]

My sources say last 2

[vale pine]

2x stones is what most people use

[upbeat sorrel]

1 oil, 1 wax?

[mighty citrus]

do you have in mind how much of 0.0xpercent diff it is using either?

or am i underestimating?

[vale pine]

wax on the highest item level weapon, oil on offhand yes

[upbeat sorrel]

i see, ty fuu

[vale pine]

#tc-research message

just copy/paste it to your top gear

[dry zodiac]

Is that just for ST? Or is wax good in aoe also?

[dry zodiac]

Or I’ll just sim it. Ty

[upbeat sorrel]

says it does more damage

per enemy

so guess its good up til 5 target

(maybe)

[dry zodiac]

Ok. I haven’t used it since s1. Guess I’ll farm some

[vale pine]

all you need to know about wax

[runic sinew]

Someone know if shuriken storm apply weak debuff Just in 8 target?

[hybrid compass]

should I use crit pot (on vers pot rn)?

[scenic plover]

how much variance is there in sub parses from rng alone?

[jagged flicker]

Quick question, is cold blood not marcroable anymore?

Cuz i have it macroed to ST and it doesnt work

[vale pine]

it is, but you should have a 2nd keybind for it

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[vale pine]

you might run into this bug

[upbeat sorrel]

https://wago.io/XfVX1CeQC/1

[jagged flicker]

Is anyone keeping a count of how many bug we have, over all 3 specs

[gaunt bluff]

dude reclearing and using rc loot while having to relog everytime i swap to assa is so c

[upbeat sorrel]

nice little WA to check if its bugged

[gaunt bluff]

have to revote every time

[vale pine]

thats part of the bot message ^^

[warm marlin]

does it actually matter?

[vale pine]

yes

[warm marlin]

ah yea i suppose wax scales off ilvl

[vale pine]

because wax scales with weapon level

[warm marlin]

always put it on the MH anyway

[oblique burrow]

is wax that much better than whetstone?

[scenic plover]

i go for wax since its cheaper

:)

[vale pine]

i wrote down everything when i wrote the posted thing in s1 for wowhead and discord ^^

tho i should add mana oil as valid alternative on wowhead, given that it is in fact a good option now and not only a budget option

will do tomorrow

[scenic plover]

is 2 times wax really possible?

i think i saw in outlaw chat that it is kinda bugged

[vale pine]

its not good

so would rather go 1x wax

[tall oriole]

can someone help me find out what exactly i am doing wrong . my guess is my stats are not correctly distributed https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/WXKtf2vJ8AF9T7gH/rNLJpaQbB2YDjCmM?fight=11%2C6&type=summary&comparesearchmetric=dps&source=76%2CJohncleave

[vale pine]

the sim does consider it not stackable

[scenic plover]

wax mana oil simmed kinda good for me yeah

[vale pine]

type !log mcbre

it opens a log analysis thread

[worldly violet]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[queen rain]

who’s good to watch for sub keys

[strange chasm]

any of you guys simming over 5 mil yet lol

I'm at 4.9

[scenic plover]

i am on 4.7

:(

[upbeat sorrel]

my rat mage i started 3 days ago is simming over 5mil

[tall oriole]

!log

[coarse halo]

Is wowanalyzer currently working for sub? I am doing the opener in the guide and it tells me even my first shadowdance use is bad 🤣

[queen rain]

if i did keys for one day on my 684 bm hunter it would sim higher than my rogue lmao

[upbeat sorrel]

got like 15 wax already

this is exhilarating

havent used pickpocket since i played classic in BRD

[ornate lake]

/use 13
/Cast shadow blades
/Cast ancestral call
/Cast Secret Technique

If I use this macro with 7 CP, will it cast a Shadow blade buffed SecTech?

[pale stream]

How does wax sim to runes? worth it?

[scenic plover]

i am only getting blue parses in mythic reclear

:(

[upbeat sorrel]

its cause there arent a ton of sub parses

[scenic plover]

that excuse worked for outlaw

but not sub

[icy mulch]

Part of it could be kill times

Part could be gear

Part could be gameplay

[scenic plover]

most is probably a skill issue

i only play sub for like a week now

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/right-youreright-yourecorrect-kaagent-gif-10118633809831799301

[scenic plover]

haye

on loomithar, should i target the net stuff?

or just tunnel boss (mythic)

[tepid trellis]

boss

[native hawk]

may have done a bit of padding on soulbinder

[scenic plover]

ok

[karmic harbor]

how long is the loomithar dmg buff

[swift tinsel]

50% of its health

[dense swallow]

I’ve been seeing a lot of different trinkets saying bis for sub rogue, is forge/prism combo still bis? Just got heroic forge in vault

[shut jay]

forge/prism have practical use on ST and the final two fights

[dense swallow]

If i don’t have either though is running forge atleast for now on aoe always still better

[swift tinsel]

you'd want a 1.5min trinket, 2min trinkets kinda stinky for sub on their own

if using just one on-use

[slate lantern]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[tepid trellis]

it is time

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza-gif-18148683

[wheat sentinel]

Not really relevant in current content, but since when could you shadowstrike for like a tmog run and not lose stealth if it one shots

[warm marlin]

i will surely acquire a mythic prism before we kill dimmy

[hollow compass]

trying to decide between weaponmaster and first dance on myth nexus king. i just don't see how first dance can be better (4 seconds on one shadow dance for an 8 minute fight) but majority of people are running it. anyone have thoughts?

[tepid trellis]

WM just sucks

• you do press some storms on the fight

so its kinda w/e tbh

they are probably basically the same

output wise

[hazy breach]

15% more damage on backstab and shadowstrike isnt great either

[hollow compass]

yeah i suppose. looking at one log and SS is only 2.7% of their damage

guess it seems like a pretty minor node choice

i've also seen some people doing the finality/replicating shadows build on nexus king, to get a few extra ruptures out during intermission and when he's riding the dragon

[hazy breach]

Its for the platform mainly

[velvet anvil]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[scarlet void]

on my burst i have 156% mastery, is bad no ? its not overcapped ?

[tepid trellis]

so close to 717 -.-

[scarlet void]

omg

[scenic plover]

only blue :(

[placid hornet]

Is crafting two weapons an ok decision if I have a 720 and 675? or am I better off hunting a hero track?

[scenic plover]

why not get a 704 from dungeon?

[placid hornet]

been trying but my luck is dog

[pulsar hemlock]

Offhand is like the weakest slot nex to bracers, dont craft a second weapon

[iron plover]

Holyyyyy

[pliant arrow]

would rather craft bracer ring or neck tbh

[placid hornet]

Cool, will do that! Thank you

[feral barn]

Hello guys, what do you think about forge trinket being lower than Lilly ?

[scenic plover]

what ilvl is that trinket

that looks very cursed

[feral barn]

Same ilvl for both 710

[sinful marten]

do you have like 0 mastery

[feral barn]

18k without consumables

[swift tinsel]

yeah there's some missing context there

[shrewd lantern]

Doesnt the sim use 13 before 14

[honest basin]

That looks incredibly cursed

[sinful marten]

are you simming 1 minute or something

[swift tinsel]

for forge+prism there's a specific call

[feral barn]

5mins dj slice

[shrewd lantern]

oh

i thought conventionally the sim uses 13

[honest basin]

Oh

[shrewd lantern]

if double on use

[swift tinsel]

yeah normally it uses 13 first

[shrewd lantern]

People who put their only on use on 13

[void epoch]

do we use shuriken storm outside of cds in keys?

[shrewd lantern]

are something

[void epoch]

is it just a way to farm dance charges etc

[feral barn]

Do you know where that could come from N?

[swift tinsel]

share the sim

[feral barn]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d8Dv4ewrnjMdbgDPhBZ73k

[swift tinsel]

hard to say anything with just that snip

[feral barn]

MB 3 ilvl diff on trinket

but still tho ? 100k

[sinful depot]

in M+ - aoe situation
Finish on 5 CP or 6CP

I read conflicting guides

[swift tinsel]

always 6+

5 is for the other two specs sometimes

[placid hornet]

double lens still the play?

[sinful depot]

Same for ST, and in dance vs out of dance

[swift tinsel]

only time you're spending on less than six is if 2nd coup is almost running out and you'd lose the cast

[feral barn]

Do you get the chance to find something off on the sims ?

[slate lantern]

Dont know if it will make a difference but should sim dslice without full raid buffs

[feral barn]

Yeah true, but still :/

My vault choice depends on that friking sim xD

[swift tinsel]

dslice also isn't the most accurate model for how 2x on-use works in keys

[crude zodiac]

What are peoples thoughts on dropping Replicating Shadows for the talent mode Weapon Master for mythic + for the less add heavy dungeons?

[swift tinsel]

no

weaponmaster sucks

its even worse in aoe

so you'd never drop RS for WM

[slate lantern]

This, iirc the value will be more pronounced as it goes longer and you get more 18 stack prism cd windows

[shrewd lantern]

dropping RS

what the helly

[swift tinsel]

if you ever cast storm, it beats WM

[crude zodiac]

Do you think it adds a noticeable different for ST damage at all or is it very minimal?

Difference*

[swift tinsel]

it is miniscule in single target

and non-existent in aoe

WM*

[fringe palm]

its hard to explain just how bad wm is

[swift tinsel]

this is without being hyperbolic too, it is tuned poorly

especially so with additional targets

[olive jacinth]

Anyone knows if i can cloak tether from loomithar?

[strong ore]

Need vault advice: heroic astral antenna or mythic helm

sim about the same with helm taking the lead in aoe

but mythic helm harder to get overall

[fringe palm]

do you get enough mythic items to spend crest? choose what you feel like. if not its always helm

[crude zodiac]

Awh, thank you for clarifying. I watched a video online from previous season and just mentioned to go WM if ST damage mattered more to you. I won’t be running WM now.

Can some one also explain if running Finality rather than the rotten is a better choice for M+ for dungeons that are less add heavy?

[tepid trellis]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/urtFPWGQYXYXC9idQjbq77
kinda sad being this ilvl and simming this shit

buff sub ong

[fringe palm]

not even 717

[strong ore]

I don't do a ton of raid, but do lots of m+

[swift tinsel]

vers/haste gems

new meta unlocked

[strong ore]

mythic pieces coming from weekly vault

[fringe palm]

hc antenna is replacable, id take helmet. might take a while to get another one its a good crest sink

[scenic plover]

weird, i only get sockets

[strong ore]

thanks this is good advice

[fringe palm]

almost

not even 718 then

[scenic plover]

what abilitys actually apply our poison?

[fringe palm]

im pretty sure my hunter with 704 or smth will sim way higher than my rogue

[vale pine]

nice

includes 69

[swift tinsel]

nice

[fringe palm]

are you not doing all gems? or just for the sim

[tepid trellis]

eh just did a quick one while on break

[shrewd lantern]

i feel the only boss im not using wm on

is araz

[tepid trellis]

aint finna do all gems for 3k dps diff

[shrewd lantern]

feels like not much value when you arent sending cds

[hoary bloom]

can u get map from tier 8 delve even if it's not bountiful?

[shrewd lantern]

think so?

i have like 4 shriekers in my bank

[fringe palm]

fair it doesnt really matter which

[swift tinsel]

yeah those crystals drop like mad

[shrewd lantern]

then kyveza tries to gank me

after i used a map for the week

[swift tinsel]

I swear she waits until I'm on the last boss of one I used a map on

[shrewd lantern]

the most troll shit

[swift tinsel]

bc that shit happens a strange amount of times

[shrewd lantern]

is getting the station portal

near the endboss

[swift tinsel]

lmao right

[shrewd lantern]

also why is the branmorpher so op

1hr duration doesnt expire on death

[swift tinsel]

Earthcrawl Mines is goated though it always shows up in the room you go to right away

[shrewd lantern]

anyone in your group can use it

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i also realized its up on any toon if it spawned in that delve

[nocturne oriole]

Vault opinion please: I have a M helm, but my vault has M helm w Avoidance. Vault also has M gloves which would be an upgrade from my H gloves. I do kill the M boss in raid that drops gloves so I'll probably wait and see if I get them to drop/awarded them. If not, curious on your opinions - I know the gloves will be the obvious dps upgrade, but avoidance can't otherwise be acquired.

[civic pagoda]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[fringe palm]

are you pushing highkeys? if not avoidance doesnt matter too much on rogue

[hearty flint]

hi guys whats the command for sim data sheet

[shrewd lantern]

how many people on your token dont have gloves

[fringe palm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[nocturne oriole]

14+ for now, not R1 level, but we climb

[hearty flint]

ty

[shrewd lantern]

realistically you're overhyping avoidance's value

[fringe palm]

id take it over a socket i guess

[brazen meadow]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[upbeat oracle]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[mint violet]

What is shadow dance and Thistle tea macro idea here with cast sequence?

Can't we just macro them together without cast sequence?

[scarlet void]

i have a question, how to know if i need play with 2 Elemental Focusing Lens or 2 others ?

[hazy breach]

You can, but then if you spam it you can use more than 1 tea

Thats why its there

[mint violet]

Is there a reason to use more than one?

[hazy breach]

No

You dont want to do that

[hearty flint]

Need some advise please if someone could help. I got ritual forge trinket in vault today + some others good stuff. I dont have netherprism, currently have leaf on use and pacemaker. I simmed and taking ritual forge with some other adjustments gives me 2% dmg increase, however my best sim on 8 mobs 5 minutes gives me 4% increase. Would taking forge and waiting for netherprism be the play or should i just take the straight up 4% dmg increase?

[hoary night]

hey guys, is there any way to set up a macro that's setting my actual target as focus if no focus exists (otherwise does nothing) and combine this with a '@focus' interrupt macro, so you only need to use 1 button for both components? 🤔 i got no clue of this coding stuff 🫣

[dreamy pumice]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[weary tree]

So if you vanish just before you get claws on nexus king the liquid weakaura breaks and it permanently shows the icon 😄

[runic sinew]

!log

[mental kettle]

anyone else having terrible luck timing 13s

maybe im joining some turbo demonic groups idk

but ive seen some wild stuff

[old scroll]

hello guys, when simming with antena what % miss chance do i put in?

shld i mess w that option or nah

[tidal marsh]

like 10-15%

[fossil forge]

Mythic prism and dagger inshallah we ate good today

[old scroll]

@tidal marsh cheers man

[mental kettle]

another reset another round of no trinkets

nm and hc nothing

[scenic plover]

for first time sub on those mythic bosses its ok i think but i might have to get some log help :)

[keen dome]

Blue is good

[lilac stag]

@granite river did you ever post the sim showing forge over prism?

[winter harbor]

whats the point in taking rotten over finality or whatever if you aren't supposed to use shuriken storm in dance

[astral axle]

nihilism

[plush roost]

I mean some people do sod storm dance sec tec

With rotten

And sometimes u do coup sod storm sec tec storm coup

Its not awful

[nova cairn]

This breakdown look about right for priory?

[hazy breach]

Ye i havent really gotten the sim to properly do the sod > storm > dance but skip it if you have coup up

[plush roost]

Coup looks low to me

[warm marlin]

BP rather low depending on the key level

[hazy breach]

But it feels like it should be good

Its all reliant on each other so its super jank to move things like that

[warm marlin]

Feel like you BP a lot in priory after first boss

[nova cairn]

12

[plush roost]

Oh 12? Yeah probs right things wont live a full cd set probs

Hard to evaluate

[warm marlin]

if only the robot wasn’t fully schizoed by charge system cooldowns

[left ledge]

Anyone gone through dimensius prog can tell me how lenient cds are in p2?

[median wraith]

yoyo guys can someone tell me why almost everybody is playing the rotten right now in dungeons ? cause whatever i simm it doesnt ever say i the rotten would be the better choice

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-we-one-gif-18212100

[left ledge]

What is the forge/prism and cd sending looking like

[hazy breach]

Ye i mean it could probably be better, but im fairly sure its bound to be cursed with how cds work

[nova cairn]

[hazy breach]

You gotta send on CD

[left ledge]

O

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message

Guy describes here

[left ledge]

Oh ok I suspected so

Ty for the link to message

And Ty for info guy if he sees this

[warm marlin]

[left ledge]

Damn is platform that long

That you can send and get back for burn

I need to look at that timing more esp post nerfs

[warm marlin]

those are for autumn

or something

[loud tiger]

quick question i dropped araz trinket and dont have nether trinket what should i play with forge instead ?

have lily or pacemaker

[plush roost]

Dimmy without autumn is what we call "cursed"

[winter harbor]

I thought that as well and asked last week i think but was told its negligible to sod storm dance

[hazy breach]

You dont want to be storming in dance besides the coup thing though

[elder pebble]

Does enchant and wpn bufffs change with new raid buff? a

[hazy breach]

No

[eager locust]

can i cloak/evasion wild hunt on soul hunters mythic?

[elder pebble]

Alright nice, its weird tho how council guile always sims highest on wpns idk

[winter harbor]

and if we have rotten I assume we would stop opening with backstab firt global so we can amp the shadowstrike or am i dumb

[hazy breach]

Nah

It doesnt matter

[plush roost]

Backstab still good

[sinful depot]

I dont get rotten. Are we supposed to press FOK after SOD to apply find weakness
To all mobs prior to sending?

I don’t get where the value comes from otherwise :S

What build do you think is best for a +17 pug?
Dbl-on use cold blood
Or thistlea tea build with mythic pacemaker trinket and netherprism.

I am being flamed for ‘low damage’ - maybe i’m washed up..

Was doing 6% less damage overall than a FDK on priory 17 and was told me damager is super low 😂

[steel jolt]

it's likely not about the build or stats or anything besides the buttons you are pressing

recommend logging your keys and raids and asking for a review

[sinful depot]

I have a mythic forgeweaver log from last night. Anyone able to take a little look for me?

[steel jolt]

you can just post it

[mossy chasm]

what can i do when my cold blood macro tells me "spell not learned"?

[heady shell]

For shadowcraft, are we not supposed to hit any finishers for like 10 seconds before our flag window?