subtlety

[warm marlin]

you also don't always backstab first generator fwiw

[flint steppe]

Explain how its not better then

[swift tinsel]

its called manifesting

[final wasp]

Because I can promise you, my dad is stronger than your dad, its just fact.

[warm marlin]

sometimes you need to apply fw

[swift tinsel]

yeah but my dad works at blizzard

[flint steppe]

so then even better, your tea will get more value

[swift tinsel]

in fact his name is John Blizzard

you may have heard of him

[flint steppe]

and you can still hard cast tea in those situations

[final wasp]

1. Tea applies automatically when you hit an energy threshold
2. Not backstabbing = bad
3. Your example is only used in fringe cases and you even say it might be a dps loss there and then

[flint steppe]

Ya, not backstabbing is bad for dps now, not dps then--- there are a lot of fights where this matters

[final wasp]

Okay, now address point 1

[dusk stone]

The thing is tea is just really really unreliable because of thst last bit of the tooltip

[north schooner]

no f way this discussion is still going

[flint steppe]

Point 1 is its the same thing as macroing it to SD and nothing changes

[final wasp]

[flint steppe]

unless you come across an edge case

[final wasp]

Is this some form of ragebait.

[flint steppe]

So yes, maybe holding energy is usually a DPS loss---but there are many fights where that matters less than having a tea charge up during dance/flag

blades/flag

[dusk stone]

I'm all for new ideas but people around here spend a lot of time modifying how a robot hits his abilities far more perfectly than we can reliably do

If sims dont show an increase it probably isnt one

Which is what ppl are asking for

[final wasp]

(He hasnt simmed it, and refuses to do so)

[dusk stone]

I saw that yeah

[final wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/armstrong-made-it-up-gif-25653819

[alpine wraith]

i saw it in a dream

[final wasp]

(Now he will follow it up with insults about how are too set in our ways.)

[alpine wraith]

the purple goat was saying it to me

[swift tinsel]

(and bring up circlejerking a very weird number of times)

[tepid trellis]

objectively true

[flint steppe]

You dont need a sim to figure out a use for it. Like I said--- before Jumpstart with Big Momma, this allows you to hold a tea charge by trading a slight dps loss of a shadowstrike instead of backstab for one SD. This is objectively a dps increase in this scenario

[final wasp]

Trust me bro

[alpine wraith]

you dont need to hold tea charges bud you just dont waste them not going below 30

[tepid trellis]

for someone who like speaking in absolutes

[alpine wraith]

then you can use them

you can HAVE 3 if you really want

[dusk stone]

There are too many variables in any key to get a reliable result, do you understand what i am saying?

[pastel rampart]

its a 3.8% increase to press shiv on a dummy prepull
source: im from the future and its a bug in the sim atm

[final wasp]

I have this build, where you dont use hero talents at all, and its the best dps gain Ive ever seen in keys.

Who needs sims tho, just dont spec into a hero talent tree

[alpine wraith]

yea i play with 2 augs in keys

im doing so much more dmg

details says im blasting

23m overall

[pastel rampart]

i specced into a talent tree, do i need to make a new rogue for this patch?

[tepid trellis]

im gonna start speaking in absolutes from now on

[final wasp]

Unluck, time to level a new one

[flint steppe]

This is a simple case thats easy to figure out. Outside of hard casting tea every SD on CD, this is the best dps way to use tea on the big momma fight

[dusk stone]

I dont play with numbers on do all i see is aug stealing my damage

[tepid trellis]

objectively im very handsome

[swift tinsel]

Absolutes are the only real way to talk.

[tepid trellis]

(grandma said so)

[flint steppe]

If you simply macro tea to SD you will often use tea outside of jumpstart on that fight

[final wasp]

Okay, if its easy to figure out. Show us the numbers.

[swift tinsel]

(can't forget the period when speaking in absolutes.)

[final wasp]

Its a either 1. Show us the numbers, or 2. Move on

[lofty lance]

Blizzard: Hmm bm needs a 4% dmg buff

[tepid trellis]

im the king of absolutes i dont need to

[flint steppe]

You need a sim to tell you that 1 less DM stack outside of jumpstart is worth ensuring you use tea during jumpstart?

[final wasp]

lmao, stupid mage didnt bind mage table to arcane surge

[swift tinsel]

This is objectively true

[alpine wraith]

do you talk with people that use the three dots after sentences

[final wasp]

Yes.

[wicked urchin]

i just tried to scroll up so hard to find the start of this tea argument and i gave up

[tepid trellis]

nw

[alpine wraith]

yea

[swift tinsel]

its literally like an hour plus ago

[tepid trellis]

its not worth it

[swift tinsel]

lmao

[flint steppe]

Well if you need a sim for that I don't know what use your brain is

[tepid trellis]

yeh koffing u stooopid

[pastel rampart]

ok i hear what you're saying, but you have $10 and you buy two cokes for 10 minutes and burgers, now the first coke only last 2.5 minutes then you spend less to burgers and buy another coke, still $10. The difference transferred to burger difference not money wise?

[tepid trellis]

[flint steppe]

Again, macrod to backstab means you will use it on CD mostly the same as macroing it to SD, it just provides flexiblity to fights like big momma without having to hard cast tea ever

[wicked urchin]

i only garfed because garf

[dusk stone]

They are buffing dev or just scale commander

[final wasp]

Glad we can come to an agreement. Do you have other ideas we need to idiot-proof for you?

[wicked urchin]

why wouldn't you just hardcast tea

[swift tinsel]

both

[wicked urchin]

if that was relevant

[swift tinsel]

but scale benefits more from the deep breath buff

[dusk stone]

Why is dev being buffed its already way way up there

[hazy breach]

Theres no flexibility brother

Thats what we are telling you

[flint steppe]

They insist that macroing tea to SD is the best simmed DPS option, and I am saying if thats true then macro it to backstab on your stealth bar, which is the same thing btu more flexible

[swift tinsel]

you can ask that about any of the changes they made

[hazy breach]

If you dont use it, youll use it automatically anyway

[final wasp]

Then show us the numbers, or move on.

[tepid trellis]

naaah unheard of

[hazy breach]

You keep yapping about it being more flexible despite it literally not being

[tepid trellis]

just dont auto proc it

[hazy breach]

Your entire argument hinges on that when its not true

[dusk stone]

This isnt going to really help, the problem is tea procs itself outside of cds a lot

[wicked urchin]

you're gonna proc it between dances anyway

without macroing it to anything

[swift tinsel]

literally told him that an hour ago

[dusk stone]

You also cant optimize for tea

[wicked urchin]

my brain

[swift tinsel]

and many times since

[flint steppe]

Again, playing around not hitting 30 energy a few seconds before a very important burst window is not hard---i concede that doing this in most situatiosn would be a DPS loss, but there are fights where you should

[dusk stone]

If its even up

[final wasp]

"There are fights where you should objectively play for a dps loss"

[dusk stone]

Ok so friend, can you at least show us some decent logs you have by any chance

[final wasp]

If only we had robot friends that could show us whether it would be up or not for these situations

[mental minnow]

Hello i have a question i try to imporve my burst rotation for better parse and on i have this (image link) and when i try to recreate it in game sometime i have only one of the 2 eviserate (not enough cp for the second) did u know what im doing wrong ?

[dusk stone]

Robots arent real they cant hurt me

[icy mulch]

Sometimes the 2nd eviscerate will be later

Just depends on your cp gen

[mental minnow]

So it's a "proc" it's not a 100 % thing

[dusk stone]

Sub gets cp refunds from shadowcraft and shadow tech iques it isnt always consistent

[flint steppe]

None of your arguments at all adress macroing it to Backstab on stealth bar, you keep defautling to the argument about hard casting tea and holding charges. Macroing tea to backstab does exactly what you say is optimal DPS in your sims, but allows you to hold a tea charge occasionally still. You can keep being arrogant, but you know I'm right about this.

[dusk stone]

Because you arent interacting at all and just saying the same stuff over and over

[final wasp]

Serious question mister urchin. If you were to order a vacation to bahamas, how long would you go for?

[bleak night]

Wait this is still going on

[flint steppe]

You are saying the same thing over and over about sims, you wont adress the logic

[hazy breach]

Weve adressed it 100 times

You just refuse to read it

[tepid trellis]

wait till he finds out what sims are made of

[flint steppe]

Not the backstab macro

[dusk stone]

Multiple people have many times

[flint steppe]

its by definition exactly the same simmed DPS as macroing it to SD, but allows you to make a choice to hold tea with a very small rotation change

[hazy breach]

It doesnt allow you to hold tea

[dusk stone]

Yes We have were saying it doesnt matter because tea auto procs itself can you address what i am saying right now

[hazy breach]

Period

[hexed sluice]

I need a video with some old linkin park thrown over it to see this point being made pls.

[tepid trellis]

just never ever hit 30 energy eleem cmon

[flint steppe]

You are just bad if you can't avoid an auto proc for like 30 seconds before an important burst phase

[dusk stone]

In the end i tried so hard and it didnt even matter

[final wasp]

!mute @flint steppe 6h The basis of your theory is being disproven in real time again and again. Its time we let the dead horse not be beat anymore.

Funs over.

[tepid trellis]

bot is dead

[final wasp]

Oh

[tepid trellis]

you fluffed it

[final wasp]

KEKW

[dusk stone]

Again, please start interacting and adress what is actually being said to you

[final wasp]

There we go, cant do custom timelength, so 1 day it is

[tepid trellis]

short bahamas trip

[north schooner]

boooo

[tepid trellis]

not enough mulla

[pastel rampart]

hey guys i entered the large mother fight and i pressed the dance of shadowy intent but i am full combo point and 14 SHT stack,,,, do i are backstabbing for my tea macro? or the hidden strategy without the drink ?

[final wasp]

[swift tinsel]

sounds like saifu

most nerfed rogue in history

[coarse agate]

Huh. Do we maybe think he's just trolling?

[final wasp]

Naaaaaaah

[pastel rampart]

do we care

[tepid trellis]

not one bit

[pastel rampart]

real

[tepid trellis]

now that

is OBJECTIVELY true

mic drop

[final wasp]

I can tell you whats objectively true as well

You promised me Id sing like celine dion

[tepid trellis]

oh i can make u

i promise

[honest basin]

Can I watch even tho haptics can't?

[coarse agate]

To continue with asserting something when confronted with overwhelming evidence to the contrary is the essence of trolling

[tepid trellis]

i didn't study the piano, violin and guitar for nothing

ive got magic fingers

[honest basin]

[tepid trellis]

ill make you sing my tune alright

[tepid trellis]

well some people cant/wont see reason, cuz they dont understand why what they are saying doesent make sense

[dusk stone]

Its trolling or something else if he just doesnt interact and keeps at the same energy level

[granite bear]

When should we actually take off the belt?

[hazy breach]

When something else sims higher, usually at ~710-715 ilvl equivalent belt

But more realistically its probably after the .5 patch when they nerf the belt

[tepid trellis]

my nexus king belt

is already equipped bud

big up on the dmg gains

[hazy breach]

Big stam

[graceful crown]

hey guys, im genuinely terrified but please be honest and constructive, i need some help understanding what I'm doing wrong with my logs and gameplay and what I can improve on https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/argent-dawn/xióngmao

[dusk stone]

I guess coincidentally we are pooling and stuff before cds so thats kinda like saving tea

[swift tinsel]

I'd start with unmacroing dance and symbols

[winter ice]

Do a !log

[graceful crown]

!log

[tepid trellis]

bot is dead

[devout jackal]

when first pull of a dungeon is a big one like priory, how do yall deal with netherprism? just save for second cast of SB?

[tepid trellis]

he cant

[winter ice]

Shit

[hazy breach]

Well what else can you do

[devout jackal]

i was thinking like use at 1-3 stacks

[hazy breach]

So its either 1 stack or not using anything

[winter ice]

My advice to anyone struggle is go to lorgs and steal everyone else’s flag/blade timings

[dusk stone]

Probably use the 3k agility on 1 stack

[last gate]

is PI entirely useless on us?

[hazy breach]

Almost yes

[last gate]

no reason to fight over it then? 💔

[hazy breach]

Its better used on tanks than you

[last gate]

Lol

BUT I DEAL MORE AUTOATTACK 😄

so more thingy

shadowy technique

[dusk stone]

Not worth

[hazy breach]

I mean ye its not literally useless

But everybody else gets way more value than we do

So why bother arguing about something you dont care about

[dusk stone]

What parses are you guys getting in 13+ for halls of atonement

[tepid trellis]

havent done a key in over a week

wouldnt know

im dimmy pilled atm

[opal basalt]

Not doing keys

Damn

Idk who it was but I got baited into playing Assa today in Floodgate. And while Overall felt better I really don’t like doing almost no boss damage.

(It was a +12 idk how relevant that is tbf)

[dusk stone]

Its prob cause casual is running flood as sin key

But he also has funnel

[winter ice]

If your group isn’t pulling mobs onto first boss your parse will suck :/

[dusk stone]

Yeah fair

Is it even a sane idea to pull mobs onto the 2nd boss?

[winter ice]

Difference in parses between pug and cordinated groups is astrogapped

[dusk stone]

Yeah i got like an 8.2 in a good group and thought i did ok in terms of play

Sham war buffs

Trying to figure out how much is in the tank just from me still

[iron plover]

You don’t do that in your higher keys?

Halls 2nd boss yea?

[dusk stone]

Ive been pugging for awhile while friends are gearing so havrnt got to test rly

[iron plover]

interesting

I’ve only done pugs and they’ve always pulled onto boss

I feel like it’s the only way to time the key

It’s so tight regardless

[dusk stone]

Yeah it is

Even on like 13s its tight if anyone messes up

[versed swift]

in m+ we still shadow strike > shuriken storm during big & small cds?
we only shuriken storm for coup + find weakness right?

[dusk stone]

Yeah you only storm between coups to avoid the proc and when at 4 targets or under blades

[short radish]

!macro

MOROES????

[slate hinge]

!coup

Is ritual forge + prism the play over antenna + prism?

[strange fiber]

How come the stat prio is mastery vers instead of mastery crit? just curious as im new to this spec and i see some synergising talents with critting in a few spots

[hazy breach]

Generally just dont get haste

[swift tinsel]

its basically anything but haste

[winter ice]

s s ss s sim it my lfr forge is less than my hero track antenna

[hollow python]

with the m+ build not running rotten do you just not fan in big pulls at all besides for cdr/downtime? i keep backstab>sectec>fan>bp on muscle memory thinking about find weakness stacks but is fan just pointless in dance/cd's now besides maybe before the pack is gathered some ruptures?

[hazy breach]

!aoe

Damn bot is dead

You generally dont really think about find weakness

[dusk stone]

Did somone forget to feed the robot again

[dusk stone]

You storm inbetween coups for your fw but its not really a big deal, you always go into cds with it and you have it at least half the time in cds from storm in coups

[hazy breach]

Making sure you utilize your trickster talents and tier set is more important, and storm doesnt accomplish any of that

Since it doesnt proc unseen blade

So yeah you wont always have find weakness up on all targets, but the damage from extra unseen blades/coups earlier on in the dance makes up for it

[strange fiber]

oo okay so i can do mastery crit ? i enjoy the rng

[swift tinsel]

yeah that's fine

[dusk stone]

Its gonna be less dam if you overstack it but yeah

[hazy breach]

Well yeah still follow the inbetween coup thing

[hollow python]

tyty

[dusk stone]

In retrospect i rly hate that the mount is at 3k io

[tribal blade]

heehee

[swift tinsel]

3k isn't that hard to get

[plush roost]

Im afraid it will happen again

I took the assa pill last night

Prophet will relapse

We all relapse...

[dusk stone]

Its not really no you can just run into mount farmers who end up being carries though

[tribal blade]

oh no say it isn't so

[slate lantern]

FREEDDOMMMMMMMMM

[hazy breach]

A bit surprised there was no assa buffs in the notes ngl

[short radish]

what the flying fuck did i read

about backstab macro'd to tea

??????

[swift tinsel]

don't ask

lol

[short radish]

im so fucking confused

[turbid edge]

Dead spec now

[woeful wren]

can u apply find weakness to araz adds before they get knocked into the void shit?

[rain kernel]

when u have multiple targets with find weakness...does yer nimble flurry eviscerates benefit from shadow damage on all targets? like the extra shadow dmg u get from evis or black powder if target has find weakness

[hazy breach]

If your maintarget has find weakness on it the shadow damage will be cleaved

All the benefit on secondary targets is the armor reduction, which is a 10% increase

[paper helm]

!fuu

!sheet

[hazy breach]

bot is down

[paper helm]

rip

ty

[turbid edge]

Eleem what did u craft with 3rd? Belt or shoulders seems most popular now

[hazy breach]

Nothing

Used my crests elsewhere

[lucid jackal]

If u never intend on buying entropy, crafting rings is solid

Raid rings are a bit icky

Other than alpha

[jagged rover]

I crafted the neck so I could use my 2nd myth weapon (was also the best use of crests according to sims)

[turbid edge]

But there are easy vers mast rings to get in m+

[lucid jackal]

720 is higher ilvl than hero track gear

[lofty cave]

!macro shadow dance backstab

!macro

! macro

! macros

[wooden wagon]

!log

[lofty cave]

!macros

wtf its not working

[chrome flax]

Hey, just sharing a macro
#showtooltip
/cancelaura Slice and Dice
/cast Slice and Dice

[lofty cave]

anyone got shadow dance/backstab macri

[chrome flax]

Between pack in m+

get some cd reduction and start fresh next pack

[hazy breach]

Can BP too

[chrome flax]

Yeah but BP cannot do invis

[lofty cave]

! macro

! macros

[elder isle]

is there a certain % of crit we should be looking for? all my sims are wanting me to gem/enchant crit i am about 15% right now

[rustic geyser]

I think you tried that already my guy

[hazy breach]

Bot is down, if it didnt work the first 6 times its not gonna work the 7th

[lofty cave]

why its not working

[chrome flax]

Cuz you need to try 5 more time

[hazy breach]

Just dont get haste

[lofty cave]

!macro

!macro

!macro

[hazy breach]

Brother

[lofty cave]

!macro

! macros

[chrome flax]

1 more

[hazy breach]

Stop

[lofty cave]

one more?

[rustic geyser]

Goin for that timeout life

[elder isle]

so should i just ignore the sims, and stay with my vers/mast gems and chants?

[lofty cave]

lol does anyone know the macro

[hazy breach]

Thats not at all what i said

[lofty cave]

i know someone got it saved

[chrome flax]

#Showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[lofty cave]

ty!

[chrome flax]

Told you 5 more times would work

[elder isle]

I asked about crit and you said dont get haste lol I dont understand at all what you said

[chrome flax]

crit is good

just dont get haste

all 3 stats are close to each other

[elder isle]

ok thanks

[lucid jackal]

Sims will fluxuate crit vers mastery

As u get more of one you will want more of others

As long as it isn't haste, it could be better!

[chrome flax]

more you have 1 stats. less efficient it get. So sometime its better to drop in crit since you have too much vers/mastery

[strong monolith]

!macros

[elder isle]

yea that makes sense

[hazy knoll]

so i got a cursed stone idol, how would i use it w/ shadowblades

[short radish]

You go farm a pvp trinket instead and save your mental

[hazy breach]

After flag+rupture

[hazy knoll]

so flag rupture > idol > dance+sod > ss ?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[hazy knoll]

kk ty

[brisk gull]

!macro

[thorny wagon]

!macro

[somber tendon]

Okay so I simmed it and the sim says it's worse on ST and AOE, but I wanna confirm cus the sim can't take into account using an on-use every pack in a M+ dungeon.

I got champ ritual forge hero pacemaker equipped. I just picked up a lily. In M+, is double on use good if it's lily/ritual forge? Or is it only valid if forge/netherprism?

[burnt panther]

I finally got the prism, is it only used on CD without importing anything else?

[dusk stone]

No. Only forge + prism is good and thats in last 2 bosses of raid. You lose a lot of passive stat when you use forge AND its on a 3 minute cd effectively.

You get more upfront but lose more than that in overall

Lily + maker is very strong about -1.5% behind bis

[somber tendon]

i mean every single sub rogue on the leaderboard is running forge + prism so it's obviously insanely good in M+

a couple people actually are running lily + forge, prolly cus they don't have prism yet idk

[dusk stone]

Casual is in raid talents

Sims do not support it being better

[somber tendon]

You can click on his runs

i mean

he's running raid talents and raid trinkets in +19

💀

[dusk stone]

When i checked murlok.io last night, he was in raid talents with those trinkets

Also do the math yourself, 9k passive agility every gcd over 90 seconds or 23k agility every 3 minutes

[grizzled thorn]

!coup

[somber tendon]

can u explain where these numbers are coming from?

[dusk stone]

The trinkets and forge

The reason it doesnt sim better is because numerically it isnt better. He might run forge for deleting certain priority things

Oh he was

Im not sure why

[somber tendon]

i mean im just imagining that u can just use forge every other pack

[dusk stone]

Look at pacemaker or antenna, they both have a lot of passive stat, forge does not

[somber tendon]

at that level

[dusk stone]

Forges 32k also depreciates

[somber tendon]

and then u can prism idk

[dusk stone]

You can 18 stack prism without forge

[somber tendon]

no i mean

he might not be popping it only at 18

he might just be popping it every pack he can

id need to see a log

[dusk stone]

If thats the case forge is dead weight

9k passive stat is a lot to lose

Or 8k or w/e it is

Its like a sixth of your primary almost

[icy tinsel]

WHY IS MY DAMAGE SO BAD

IM DOING EVERYTHING. Well.. i think but i have NO clue.

[somber tendon]

he can't be netherprisming twice in the first minute of the key right

priory LMAO

[dusk stone]

Also casual is just a really skilled player maybe he just wants to run those at cost

Link the log

[somber tendon]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ngydtYTDxkBqGZ42?fight=9&type=damage-done&view=timeline&source=4

it literally looks like he's spamming it off CD

or maybe the log isn't catching it correctly and it's showing that stacks going up?

[dusk stone]

I cant view it from.a phone atm

It bugs and doesnt show prism in 12 mins

How often is he using it

Hes not using it all over the log

Its activating once every 10 seconds as netherprism does

[prime raft]

for crafted dagger do i want vert mastery?

[remote sigil]

sim different stats, i did crit/mastery when i tried assassination, but it's still my stats to use for sub cause of the gear i have.

[prime raft]

ah ok ok ty

[dusk stone]

Sim it

We dont know what your stats are

Im 611 ilvl 101 mastery 26 vers 26 crit 1% haste

[light rune]

What do i do after burst? I seem to be miss aligning my SoD and SD

[prime raft]

this is mt stats but waiting on sim now

[dusk stone]

Is your burst being done correctly

We hate haste, its half the value of other stats

[prime raft]

yea i have a ring and haste giving haste rn need to find upgrades

[remote sigil]

haven't raided at all since guild is deadge this expac lol, so im rocking those.

[prime raft]

i need to run prio for the ring i dropped it when i was assa and just gave it away so sadge

[dusk stone]

The dawn ring is very good as well

[prime raft]

i have

[dusk stone]

Is your burst being done properly

[light rune]

I think it is

[dusk stone]

You use symbols/dance -> stab and/or sectec then use strike and appropiate finishers with w/e optimizations youre using

1-2 times between flag/blades

You start holding dances/symbols 30 seconds prior to flag blades to have 1.5 charges

[jagged rover]

just fyi, this is a damage timeline, look at casts to see when the prism is actually being used as opposed to damage events happening

[warm marlin]

idk i think somehow people believe forge is better than it is

i can see an argument for having 2x on use specifically to hold prism for longer than usual to blow up certain scary packs

but like theres a 6min gap there

[worldly violet]

hey guys one question , in a big pull, how many moobs should i rupture at least before burst?

[light rune]

Is it good to use SoD or SD on it's own?

[dusk stone]

So about forge

Assuming its spent on large mobs and assuming the passive stat from a passive trinket over an organized key is kinda spent in a meh way outside of cds

Wouldnt there be a multiplicative value of forges on use stat because of it being used in huge packs

I did some quick napkin math and forge is like half the stat or less of pacemaker over 3 minutes

[turbid edge]

For fuu's plater profile, can I easily remove the diff sized platers? Or can I make it so casters are on top?

[light rune]

How good is to hold ST from 30 secs priors to burst? And what about CB?

[dusk stone]

To hold what? Sectec you mean

[gaunt dagger]

!macro

[dusk stone]

You use sectec with symbols/dance in dance outside of major cds, (the goal is to super charge sectec always with symbols) or with symbols by itself on the rare occurance they are significantly desync'd

[lucid jackal]

I agree but I'd say specifically nexus king it's just literally perfect

I do wish forge was a 3 minute tho

[dusk stone]

Guy have you done keys with forge/prism much and then also without?

I see casual using it, but then i also see the math so not sure what to think

[turbid edge]

can u only get those big ass 40M+ dps pulls only with prism?

[versed swift]

!aoe

[dusk stone]

Hard to say depends on pull size too

[lunar bluff]

why no blades/sec tech macro and maybe dance/backstab macro?

[warm marlin]

you still need a separate bind for sectec (2 since using a cold blood sectec macro too), might as well just bind blades separately

!bs (moroes dead one moment)

#subtlety message

[lucid jackal]

I might sound crazy but I don't pay attention to my damage in keys.

So I don't really compare shit like this

[lunar bluff]

yeah i have all them binds, where would pressing blades sec tech be bad?

[lucid jackal]

I just play the spec and get my loot. I'm not really a key pusher at all

[warm marlin]

it wouldn't be, its just that it doesnt save a keybind and the exact timing of blades with sectec doesnt matter really

[lunar bluff]

i used to have tea/dance macro, but i like pressing tea on its own

[lunar bluff]

blades combo wombo is shift r nbd

my opener is 1 Q 2 MB2 R shift R then go

[stone patrol]

Do we BP if there is a prio target? And how the fuck some spike to 40-50 mil dps

[shrewd lantern]

You press prism

stacked

or a forge

[shrewd lantern]

burst spec:

[short radish]

people just enjoy holding cooldowns

[prime raft]

how geared must i be to achieve this in ST like this guy holy

[lucid jackal]

Get a mythic prism

[prime raft]

welp time to start farming

[lucid jackal]

Walk into the boss with 18 stacks

[restive moth]

i find it interesting sims are almost always telling me more crit, taking me away from verse/mastery matching at around 21/22k, like everyone does?

is everyone else just ignoring the sim lmao

[sullen hare]

nah I'd say that's kinda where my statline is right now

according to wcl I have:
Agility: 90,916
Stamina: 688,928
Crit: 8,834
Haste: 1,949
Mastery: 19,213
Versatility: 20,185
Avoidance: 2,097

how much of a change is it/

[warm marlin]

you want to link the sim?

just curious mine is equalizing around 21/21/8

[wispy crystal]

??? You do you bro.

Mine is B5 2 R 1 B4 Shift R 3 1 3 1 3

[lucid jackal]

Just trust sims don't think

[warm marlin]

crit is higher value in aoe

[winged kernel]

ur probbaly simming crit hungry cause ur not using council's guille

[warm marlin]

sim is right

[gritty iron]

can someone explain The First Dance to me?

do i sit in vanish for 6sec?

[restive moth]

that makes sense

[dry flame]

The first dance" refers to the tradition at many modern European and American wedding receptions where the newly married couple shares their first dance as a married couple.

[winged kernel]

ur also not using delve belt for crit either

so definitely crit deprived with ur current setup

[warm marlin]

that too

[light rune]

You can see the opener on the bottom right if anyone is interested, i bursted 22M as a 698 without BIS trinkets or without good stats 🙂
Don't mind the Spanish shit talk 😛

[mystic talon]

!guide

[random hare]

Rupturing 3 times in flag is diabolical ngl

Opener isn’t right idk why ur posting the video no offense tho

You spend your ruptures pre flag and then u can send ur flag+sectech

[runic kraken]

Ruptures in Flag are fine afaik just as long as pre-blades and limited to 3(?).

Mastery buff still lines up with blades/2nd sec tech I think.

[chrome flax]

wait you get your BiS trinket and you can burst 35m sometime

in 12-14 I time with my tank and I can delete a entire group with 80% of the damage by myself. Completly broken with Prism at 18 stacks

one every 3-4 packs

[random hare]

He missed an entire extra sectech or 2 in that pull

Too much delay on sectech

[chrome flax]

start the fight visible. Should be spaming rupture while tank is grouping with perma miss direction

[winter ice]

Pull mobs onto a boss + only evis

[chrome flax]

Also low key boss die so fast before you go in maintenance phase where you hit with 2 noodles lol

[winter ice]

That was in a 17 I believe

3:30 min kill time

[chrome flax]

Well, that dude a god then

[wispy crystal]

A little confused. For Mythic+ build, are we running cold blood or thistle tea ?

[chrome flax]

If you suck at doing Cold Blood on second sectec. Go thistle

thistle just mmuch easier to play for almost same overall damage

Mostly now they made it kinda passive

[wispy crystal]

Oh okay got it. Thank you for clarifying. So the difference is marginal.

I just find thistle sometimes I don't pool energy and it auto procs by accident, and puts it on cooldown

[chrome flax]

True, I also struggle with this since I play normally with CB

but its not that bad tbh

You still will do lots of damage

Just make sure it doesnt proc outside from a dance

[wispy crystal]

Sure I'll try to manage energy better. Sometimes spam too much shuriken storm trying to rupture multiple targets

Btw are we playing 1/2 points in Finality or put it into the Rotten?

I have like 1 spare point in the M+ build current putting into the talent that gives 15% more finisher damage on the next Evis / Rupture

[shrewd lantern]

3:30 is a good kill time for sub

[alpine thunder]

yo guys, i havent played sub in a while and I suck and I'm trying to improve, do you guys see some glaring problems I can address

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dZWqV7B4JpY3F2Dz?fight=4&type=damage-done

[short radish]

@tribal blade so close to the 10m overall

floodgate is so fun

[tepid coral]

!coup

[cursive vapor]

okay - raid build ( no tfd, no replicating) and swapping weapons (crafted dagger to offhand) sims better for me (+3% dps) but i think ima stick to m+ build, just feels better idk

[short radish]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:
Number 1: You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[scenic oxide]

In raid, is there a solid way to bank up a coup de grace for the start of your opener?

[short radish]

!cheese

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.
Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[novel marlin]

Same here. I don‘t complain as it brings my sub / sin gear closer.

[shrewd lantern]

cb truther numbers

[brazen steppe]

Do we still double sectec on opener while de-syncing cold blood?

I'm picking my rogue back up, learning sub

[short radish]

big number makes me feel good

though i fucked up and didn't run prism

so it could have been even bigger

[shrewd lantern]

lily gamer?

[short radish]

yeah was messing with some gear sets

[shrewd lantern]

i havent gotten a lily yet

[short radish]

[shrewd lantern]

got my prism before farming ecos

and my pace is mytj

that thing aint coming off unless mythic forge

[short radish]

same

or mythic antenna

but that aint dropping

im kinda prayge for this and next vault

probably last ones before extending

so 3 more chances or something

[shrewd lantern]

antenna is a vault angle since

gl being anywhere on loot prio for it

with a pace

[short radish]

bro antenna is a vault angle because we haven't seen a single drop of it in any difficulty

wait no thats a lie i think we saw it on normal once

[shrewd lantern]

we saw 2

our only good loot rng otherwise was 3 screams on normal

[short radish]

some guilds blessed with trinket rng

some guilds cursed

[shrewd lantern]

do not alot of specs need prism

[short radish]

more and more specs are realising they want it

our WW now wants prism

[shrewd lantern]

we've only had 3 drop between norm and hc

[short radish]

our BM wants it as well

[shrewd lantern]

and i got a norm and now hc given to me

[short radish]

thats brew master not beast master

[shrewd lantern]

our bm got first hc

[short radish]

MM also wants

and probably FDK

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i was surprised getting the heroic one when i already had normal

and my raid only has one other person with prism iirc

[short radish]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as wel

yeah i took my hc prism from vault

[karmic harbor]

https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/eu-en/587832-class-tuning-incoming-10-september/ so where are the sub st buffs

[short radish]

passed over some myth track items but it was worth

[shrewd lantern]

forge is the hard case

since its niche use for sub and sin

atp

[short radish]

just be glad we're not getting nerf'd

we're really fucking strong

our m+ is insane

and our niche is also really fucking good

[karmic harbor]

So strong rwf didn't even bring rogue for every fight

I jest ig we're strong in certain situations

[short radish]

yeah because they only had like 1 or 2 rogue players

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as wel

[shrewd lantern]

i mean melee sucks on soulhunters

[short radish]

to quote max: yeah we would have brought more rogues if we had them

[shrewd lantern]

we basically atro and sit in the cuck chair

[lavish rose]

offered 200k for lfr netherprism and got ignored

[karmic harbor]

Yeah cause that's not a serious offer

[lavish rose]

my sub is NEVER doing dmg

for lfr?

dude was complete ungeared lol

[short radish]

couldnt be that maybe they wanted it for themselves

[lavish rose]

of course it could

could also just not want gold

[short radish]

yeah i wouldnt have traded it for 200k

[lavish rose]

it was a mistweaver

[strange fiber]

hi im making a dagger what embellishment is the go to for sub? new to all this dps stuff xd

[short radish]

its good for WW

[lethal minnow]

outside of the flaglation window how many dances can i do?

[short radish]

doesnt matter pick what you want

focusing lens is the most brain dead option

i'd just run with that

[short radish]

in raid? 2

[shrewd lantern]

lens if you only play sub

ascenson if you play both

ig

realistically embellishs dnt fucking matter

[lavish rose]

i dont believe u guys are offering more for lfr trink

[short radish]

yeah but playing assi is cringe

[shrewd lantern]

ill put blessed weapon grip on mine

[strange fiber]

ok thanksss

[shrewd lantern]

dont tempt me

[short radish]

do it or coward

[lavish rose]

i almost got it for 400k in normal this week

[frigid prawn]

Got hc prism in vault but my mythic lily sims better..

[short radish]

i wouldnt but im also a stingy person who doesnt like spending gold

[shrewd lantern]

i still need to cook a goremaw pv rotten build to test in normal

[short radish]

have you tried my open world DS goremaws build yet?

[lethal minnow]

when would you stop dancing and just bank up dance timer, or home many charges do you want buit the start of your burst window.

[shrewd lantern]

no

[short radish]

roughly 25 seconds

[lavish rose]

thats crazy. even with double active?

[short radish]

when you go into flag you want 1.5 dances and 1.3 symbols

[shrewd lantern]

mythic trinkets are strong

this aint news tbh

[karmic harbor]

What trinkets do you have other than lily

[short radish]

CUQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAw2MAAAAAAMbzMzy0YmlZGzMjBzMzwMwmtZmZsNzM8AzMGwysNAAAAmZwM2MbDMgFwywEysAA

if you still do world quests

try it out

its unironically good

[karmic harbor]

I'm running mythic lily and heroic prism

[shrewd lantern]

interesting

[frigid prawn]

didnt test it😄

[short radish]

you can take a look at

https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/nexusking-salhadaar?difficulty=heroic

[lavish rose]

mightve been the play

[short radish]

and see when the other rogues are casting stuff

people usually dance around the same time

and flag

[lavish rose]

i would kill (my gold) for a prism

[short radish]

so just copy them

[short radish]

logic is. using dance and sectech and symbols all in open world is overkill

[frigid prawn]

hc pace

[short radish]

so it takes power out of that and brings up your average baseline

[karmic harbor]

And prism + lily doesn't outsim hc pacemaker?

I had mythic pacemaker and heroic prism + mythic lily outsimmed it

[frigid prawn]

Yeah, but I am new to simming. Guess im going test it again, still didnt pick anything out of the vault😄

[lavish rose]

thank god

definitely give that a test

u might just use that netherprism forever until u get myth version lol

[lethal minnow]

is it really reallygood? i dont remember getting mine but its only champ

[lavish rose]

i think for sub you prob even want the champ

could be wrong

sims great for me but i only have a champ lily right now

but even veteran would be upgrade lol

[short radish]

prism is also a mental dps increase

[lavish rose]

hence why i offered someone 200k for it

[short radish]

you feel so fucking good sending with it

[shrewd lantern]

yeah just dont die

LLLLLLL

[short radish]

[lethal minnow]

i forgot to macro it to blades my last dongon...

[short radish]

mfw tank dies on an 18 stack prism

gg abandon key go next

[keen dome]

Champ / Hero are basically identical so it doesn't matter a lot. Any prism is good, though.

[scenic oxide]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cvfGjdZMgz2wFKH1?fight=32&type=casts&source=66&start=10342897&end=10433230&view=timeline

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KZbzAV2P9CJfwpcG?fight=23&type=casts&source=253&translate=true&start=7732055&end=7823305&view=timeline

Why do i get my coup de grace proc so much later in my opener compared to this guy or any other top log?

[lavish rose]

cause you're not guaranteed one i believe

its very likely but sometimes doesnt happen

[short radish]

!cheese

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.
Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[lavish rose]

yea thats the only way i guess

[keen dome]

Cheese is powerful

[lavish rose]

unless u do that you only get 3 guaranteed unseed blades

[short radish]

yeah

so you have to rng the last one

either through AA

[lavish rose]

but still happens like 90% of the time i feel

[short radish]

or one of them hitting from your tier

except when it doesnt

[scenic plover]

should i use lily or netherprism in m+?

[short radish]

then you just accidently die

[shrewd lantern]

just get lucky

[short radish]

and gg go next

[scenic oxide]

oh sorry should have read up more carefully.

[short radish]

youre all good mate

the bot is down as well

so im kinda taking its place for a bit

[chrome palm]

Hmmm

!fuu

[scenic oxide]

So i gotta end the wipe with secret technique and aa and fillers to get as close as possible for the next opener

and when using the damage window i just aim to have coup ready again

[short radish]

Rogue spreadsheet light version

[shrewd lantern]

the easier one is to just get used to

[olive jacinth]

!guide

[scenic oxide]

before the rotation

[shrewd lantern]

pressing symbols

[chrome palm]

Holy

[olive jacinth]

!guides

[shrewd lantern]

when you revive

[short radish]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/talent-builds-pve-dps

[chrome palm]

Thank you moroes

[scenic oxide]

Pressing symbols i got down ^^

[shrewd lantern]

you can press it mid recuperate

which is nice

because yk

healers complain when you tell them to do their job

unreal

[lethal minnow]

should i remove the damcew symboles macro?

[short radish]

yes

!macro

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well

[warm marlin]

!australia

[worldly violet]

hey guys one question in aoe , is a gambit /psf first pulls is coup de grace my priority? or just spamming black power?

it is better to use thistle tea or cold blood

[strange geode]

In dance evis only? No matter how many targets? Or only when you have a prio target?

[sage saffron]

sectec > coup > black powder in 4+ targets

[sage saffron]

below 4 evis is better; above black powder is more dps. I believe up to 7 targets and prio with prio target that needs to die you can still evis w/o much dmg loss

[strange geode]

Thank you!

[strange fiber]

What is a blasphemite secondary efect?

[karmic harbor]

!aoe

Wtf

• Always cast Coup de Grace when it is ready, regardless of target count.
• Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
• At ALL target counts use Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm.

[upbeat sorrel]

For those of us running prism + passive do you guys just macro prism with blades or keep it separate for stacking to 18 in specific uses

[sage saffron]

I have one button where it‘s macroed in and one so I can cast blades standalone depending on upcoming situation

[tribal blade]

i almost broke 8 mil in DB today

i'm getting kind of annoyed doing push keys

[short radish]

why?

[tribal blade]

every single key has 1 person dragging the entire group down

without fail

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

it's usually dks gonna be real

[short radish]

for me it's the warrior

[tribal blade]

i've been playing with quite a few good warrs recently

dk is fotm reroll class

so there's a LOT of shitter dks out there

[short radish]

yeah but like

it cant be fotm

if it's always the flavor

[tribal blade]

lol true

isn't this the 3rd season in a row for dk

[short radish]

yup

[tribal blade]

i dunno i'm starting to lose my mind a little

not to stroke my own ego, but my performance is keys has been really good recently

and it's frustrating watching keys go to shit because you have 1 floor pov person in the group

granted i was the one who was floor pov when i played with charrend the other day haha

naturally

[short radish]

tbh same

i dunno if im just being good

or if sub is busted in keys

[tribal blade]

sub is really good atm

[short radish]

but gapping people by 1-2mill dps

is really stoking my ego

[fair cloak]

single target in raids

[tribal blade]

i adopted only pressing strike in dances

and it's good

[fair cloak]

is shit

[short radish]

these are still trench push keys though

[fair cloak]

in all specs

[short radish]

like 12/13

[fair cloak]

and brainrottedf specs like bm boomkin get buffed

[tribal blade]

sub rogue feels kinda awkward in 12-13s

[fair cloak]

no bug fixes too

[tribal blade]

your cd timings are weird

[short radish]

dude i run out of symbols charges

[tribal blade]

once you get to 16-17 sub's cd timings are really nice

[short radish]

i dont know what to do

[tribal blade]

dry dance 🙂

[short radish]

i sit there with dance and sectech off cd

and 0 symbols

that sounds so bad lol

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[tribal blade]

yeah it's weird, you gotta pool energy to do a dry dance

if you try sending a dry dance without pooling you miss at least 50% of the gcds

[fair cloak]

I dont think its biased take that rogue is hardest class, pure dps without buffs

it should be top damage if played to 100%

but bro

[scenic plover]

how is sub single target in dungeons?

[short radish]

eh i dont think rogues that hard

i do think we should have higher damage though since we're a pure dps spec

[scenic plover]

i feel like i am the last dps on bosses often

[tribal blade]

good

make sure you're running the correct build

[short radish]

honestly sub ST is really good in keys because we dont sacrifice much for aoe

[fair cloak]

wow is an easy game, but compared to other classes and i have 5 alts it is hardest objectivly

i care about raids more tbf

[scenic plover]

idk i tried one from wowhead and one from archon

and with both i dont do much st

[tribal blade]

ah ok so it's a rotation thing

you gotta just practice more

[short radish]

thing is though there are only 2 or 3 pure single target fights in the raid

every other one is either aoe, cleave or ST with amp phase

and we're really fucking good at amp

[scenic plover]

13 floodgate overall and the top details is swampface

[fair cloak]

which is 40% of raid

u get me

and on aoe we not really like best, only 1 fight we are bis

and its like that since legion

[tribal blade]

but yeah i fucking love sub in keys

one weird thing is you kinda int funnel specs

[short radish]

we're never going to be best

thats mages job

[tribal blade]

if there's adds on bosses

[short radish]

once you accept that

life becomes a lot easier

[fair cloak]

One of the devs will slip, cheat on wife or smth

i will be there

with my iphone 7

im gonna make sub great again

[tribal blade]

arcane busted in raid

busted in keys

busted in pvp

just busted

[fair cloak]

destro same

[short radish]

dw they got nerf'd in pvp

its fine

[fair cloak]

elemental same

[strange fiber]

111222333444555666777

[tribal blade]

i honestly don't mind ele because it was a pretty shit on spec historically

[short radish]

to be fair it is kinda retarded that every single target is allowed to do a billion damage in pvp except sub rogue whos always relegated to stun bot

[scenic plover]

!log

[short radish]

like what the fuck is this

[tribal blade]

shammys before TWW were mega depression

[short radish]

bots down

[scenic plover]

sadge

[tribal blade]

haha yeah sub rogue is constantly nerfed in pvp

over and over

[scenic plover]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2KTM49rNCDXfhYjV?fight=last&type=damage-done

why i no do damage

[short radish]

duno. harder to tell in keys

[tribal blade]

if you are doing your rotation correctly

[short radish]

usually though its a "sitting on cds" for too long

[shadow lance]

Skill issue

[tribal blade]

i would bet my life it's sitting on cds too much

[tribal blade]

this

[scenic plover]

but i need to sit on cds?

[tribal blade]

sub has a very hard time sitting on cds

[short radish]

i say that as someone who sat on flag for 40 seconds

[tribal blade]

it compounds and you lose casts over the course of a key

and sub does all it's dmg in cds

so you can see the issue

[shadow lance]

How come?

[tribal blade]

sometimes you do need to sit on cds yes

but more often than not just send

[short radish]

because you gotta incubate your CDs and keep them warm so when they hatch they will grow up to be big and strong

[scenic plover]

for shadowblades no?

[tribal blade]

oh

[peak prawn]

!wa

[scenic plover]

i already feel like i sometimes dont hold enough

[tribal blade]

we misunderstood haha

[open vortex]

[shadow lance]

We speaking holding SB and Flag

[tribal blade]

yeah holding dance and symbols is a natural part of sub

[scenic plover]

so i should just improve not holding flag then

[open vortex]

You can stop pressing dance when flag is up in 35s ish

[scenic plover]

but like, when a boss is low hp and a sectech would work for it surely i dont hold it for a potential next pull after with flag?

[short radish]

eh more like 20 seconds in keys

you get cp a lot more

its kinda just play by feel though

[open vortex]

Ya but it’s really the symbols that still get you

[short radish]

vibes not guides

[shadow lance]

I don't have logs to check my own perf on flood

I mean, I got one from week 1

So a bit pointless ahaha

[alpine wraith]

floodgate can vary a lot depending on pull size

if tank pulls giga and into bosses

you do 12m

if not i have done as low as 7 to 8m

[scenic plover]

build is fine tho right

[short radish]

yeah

[shadow lance]

Yes

[alpine wraith]

yea tea or cb both work kinda one does more aoe the other more st

and tornado is well

if you know how to use it is decent

if not better to use the 5%

[shadow lance]

Diff on an overall isn't that big

[tribal blade]

i play with tea

just my preference

[alpine wraith]

yea same

[shadow lance]

CB team here

[alpine wraith]

big mastery

[short radish]

cb gang gang rise up

[alpine wraith]

and just close your eyes and crit

[tribal blade]

i just like having a bigger energy pool

feels a lot better

[alpine wraith]

gotta beat my 340% mastery this season

[karmic harbor]

I'm not playing cb cause I use that keybind for bp

[alpine wraith]

but crafts are not friendly

to engi helmet and wrist

[short radish]

tbh bigger energy pool is kinda comfy

[open vortex]

it is very comfy

[short radish]

and there are too many times where i fuck up rotation

[tribal blade]

yeah it makes sub feel way less painful outside cds

[short radish]

and i didnt have enough CP to refund

[open vortex]

especially when you just have that extra dance

and no symbols to pair with it

[short radish]

and i do a cold blood shadowstrike

[tribal blade]

yeah that's the thing about playing CB

you gotta kinda play every gcd perfectly

or else you int the flow

[shadow lance]

Macro CB on Sectech

And have a solo sectech bind

[tribal blade]

mess up too many times and then suddenly you've bricked your energy smile

[shadow lance]

problem solved

[karmic harbor]

Maybe I can do this now. I stopped cause of the cbbug but I'm never playing assa again so shouldn't happen

[tribal blade]

playing vigor also allows you to reactively press feint

[shadow lance]

idd

[tribal blade]

when you play CB you have to preplan feint usage

[shadow lance]

You just have to not spam as fuck

[tribal blade]

yeah true

but that also makes me mad lol

[shadow lance]

kekw

[tribal blade]

give back 35 energy storm

[shadow lance]

I got a spec for you

[short radish]

yeah ikr

why the fuck does storm still cost half our eneryg pool

[shadow lance]

That's what I play when I want to spam

[scenic plover]

is tea more aoe?

[short radish]

yeah

[void ocean]

ah best blue post ever

[scenic plover]

if i use evis in aoe, is that badly hurting my damage?

[frigid prawn]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[scenic plover]

how important is rupture spreading in m+?

[shadow lance]

Depends pulls size, but mostly yes

[shadow lance]

Outside of cd, better spread rupture than spam bp

If targets will live long enough

[scenic plover]

should i always go for max combopoints on that first flag opener for cds or can i send at like 4-5?

[vale pine]

you go for 6+ cp

[topaz egret]

Rogue dodging buffs again duuuuude what's going on where's the DEV

[lime lintel]

Isnt rogue doing fine besides outlaw?

[short radish]

fine*

honestly i'll take this state of sub rogue

other than pure ST

it's at worst in an above average state everywhere else

[topaz egret]

It will become more and more mediocre every week

[plush roost]

Rogue needs bugfixes

[topaz egret]

Timers will end up worse and worse with more damage

[short radish]

true

but that's just the existance of sub rogue

[plush roost]

Forgeweaver will never be the same without the 6min lust 🙁

[scarlet oyster]

is it worth it to change our opener to get more macabre stack when we have the first dance ready?
such as:

in AoE (e.g with full combo points at start - the target doesn't have rupture on it):

flagellation > dance > backstab > sectech > shurikenstorm > rupture > shadowstrike > evicerate > shadowstrike > blackpowder > shadowstrike > blackpowder >....> coup de grace > shurike storm > coup de grace

in ST(e.g with full combo points at start):

flagellation > dance > backstab > sectech > shurikenstorm > rupture > blackpowder > shadowstrike > evicerate > shadowstrike > evicerate >....> coup de grace > shurike storm > coup de grace

[shadow lance]

No

[plush roost]

Nop

[shadow lance]

Or it would have been noted in guides

[scarlet oyster]

not even to a certain degree ? like one SS in ST

[shadow lance]

You miss an evis and a SS

[plush roost]

Pressing rupture and storm in st (outside of the coup rule) is less damage than a strike/evis

Even if you have an 8% buff to your future 10 globals a single strike/evis is a stack early in the chain and actual damage anyway

[twin quartz]

What about ripping a cheeky shiv during a first dance shadowblades opener

[shadow lance]

And BTW, why you press BS at full cp?

[short radish]

throw in a shuriken toss and cheap shot while youre at it

[twin quartz]

Heh

[shadow lance]

So wasting so much cp xD

[scarlet oyster]

https://youtu.be/ijiuWaK3RdI?si=Iwfd5IcsoUOgyRAn&t=1692 I am asking because I noticed on logs & vod that some players do it (at the timer)

[shadow lance]

He didn't rupture in dance

[scarlet oyster]

he SS in dance

[shadow lance]

Cuz of coup

[plush roost]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[scarlet oyster]

oh coup was ready

[shadow lance]

He start fight with coup up

[short radish]

moroes is alive again!

[scarlet oyster]

ok ty

[plush roost]

He strike, flag rupturw dance backstab sec tec storm coup coup

He does it to perserve escalating blade stacks (correctly)

[scarlet oyster]

yes yes yes his coup was ready I didn't see correctly

[muted frigate]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[shadow lance]

Is fuu writing a book?

Okay nevermind, he stopped writing

[vale pine]

with 12 globals from the first dance we finally can do the best opener sequence:
shadow dance:
shiv-(shadow blades)-rupture-shuriken toss-black powder -shuriken storm-Slice and Dicer-cheap shot - eviscarate backstab-Secret Technique- shadowstrike
(for legal reasons, this is a joke - || Please DON'T do this, its awful! ||

[cursive vapor]

cheap shot

[twin quartz]

New pin

[shadow lance]

Where's the kidney?

[shadow lance]

Fuu, what time is it by your side?

[vale pine]

its 11 am^^

[shadow lance]

Okay, so you're not tired

[vale pine]

na, i just felt like memeing for a moment

but think its enough for today ^^

[shadow lance]

Your job here is done

[uncut widget]

I wanted to read up on sub specialization but somehow it reads like rocket science. is sub really that complicated to play?

[short radish]

no

[mossy gale]

they just really bad at explaining it

[short radish]

okay perhaps dont watch the casual addict 30 second video

[shadow lance]

You just need to get the concept

[twin quartz]

If you can do your opener perfect, you’re almost there

[shadow lance]

But it's really straight forward

Once you gott he burst sequences

Just need to think when you can send and when you cannot