I do. Sending via dm
#subtlety
honest saddle
tulip folio
but im not sure how smart its is to invest my crest in them
vale pine
basically
left ledge
Energy classes are gcd locked
vale pine
you want 2 enchanted items
shrewd sierra
I do. Sending via dm
tyvm!!
vale pine
because embellishments are still good
you usually go for a mainhand weapon because weapon item level is rly strong
and the 2nd one is for whatever of the lower stat slots is your worse
vale pine
so something like ring, neck, bracers, belt
spiral sierra
i don't use 1 button, but i do have 1% haste as sub, super fun š
honest saddle
i don't use 1 button, but i do have 1% haste as sub, super fun š
sounds so engaging......
vale pine
each craft after first 2
west bough
!cbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
vale pine
is just to get rid of bad items in a slot
but non crafted items are usually better in the slot
because they can go higher item levels
for "what embellishment"
its focusing lense or dusk/dawn, weapon can do ascendent too
again the diffrence is low so you can use whatever of them
wheat elk
pugging has never been this bad
vale pine
pugging has never been this bad
did you try to pug dimensius?
spiral sierra
ascendent/banding versus focusing lens is what im simming atm funny enough
dusk stone
anyone have the sim spreadsheet for racials
wheat elk
did you try to pug dimensius?
nah trying to get my 17s (
spiral sierra
so lense x2 and ascendance/banding is like 0.2% diff, atleast for my toon, is that right?
vale pine
i mean any key higher than 10 will suck in a pug
dusk stone
well with 16 fg at least there's an excuse for ppl to die
halls prison 13's are 100% tank issue i swear
80% of keys at least
wheat elk
i mean any key higher than 10 will suck in a pug
well arcane and fdk are the sole reason
thats all
dusk stone
14 are genuinely easier
vale pine
so lense x2 and ascendance/banding is like 0.2% diff, atleast for my toon, is th...
not sure if bending is better than lense, but yes. embellishments don't scale or scale very weak with item level
wheat elk
like people are whoring for these 2 specs rn
vale pine
so they are kinda "you want to have them, but its w/e which one"
shrewd sierra
!guide
dusk stone
ye
warrior tank, reso shaman, arcane mage fdk and then another caster cause' people still doing caster comps somehow
dusk stone
is arcane even that good
dusk stone
maybe my mage i game with isnt that great
wheat elk
sadly
dusk stone
but hes not beating me in ST
vale pine
i mean arcane is kinda op
wheat elk
arcane is the only literal S
vale pine
caster combos are not bad
wheat elk
in the game
wheat elk
caster combos are not bad
arcane fits into every group even in phys comps as that 5th spot
upper narwhal
goated comp
dusk stone
havoc can do 60mil pulls too
wheat elk
best comp that i had was pwar rsto sub havoc fdk
slate marlin
havoc sub fdk
Yep its my favourite comp as well
upper narwhal
havoc also fills the funnel niche that arcane would usually bring
vale pine
havoc is rly good too
slate marlin
For sure
I like them more than mages
Bc they arent mages, and bc chances of your arcane being shit are extremely high
upper narwhal
the number of good mages in the 13-14 range im at is phenominally low
slate marlin
Im doing 16s and tried a couple 17s and ive seen 3 good mages so far
winter harbor
If we run rotten do we still start dance with a backstab?...maybe I dance backstab then symbols for shadowstrike amp so it's not wasted on it? @vale pine
upper narwhal
had a mage brick my priory 14 by invising the first boss's leap then flaming us for not interrupting (the shield was at full hp) 
spiral sierra
not sure if bending is better than lense, but yes. embellishments don't scale or...
no the lense simmed higher
and im coming from assassin so...
manic salmon
had a mage brick my priory 14 by invising the first boss's leap then flaming us ...
what shield
vale pine
the diffrence is not that big
manic salmon
first boss is interruptible through shield
vale pine
so fine to stick to whatever you have
spiral sierra
kk š
manic salmon
i've been kicking it through shield after vanishing just fine
dim trail
Hi guys, how much dmg i lose doing CB Sectec with dance instead of holding it?
honest saddle
Hi guys, how much dmg i lose doing CB Sectec with dance instead of holding it?
you mean holding it for flag blades?
iron plover
i've been kicking it through shield after vanishing just fine
Same here ^
Vanish op af
honest saddle
I Mean using it with 2 charges of DM
You need to be using cold blood secret tech as your first finisher each dance in cool downs (flag and blades), and at least in the first 2 finishers outside of your cooldowns. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT DANCE MACABRE STACKS
dim trail
i meant this
coral bear
!guide
honest saddle
ahhhh
coral bear
!fuu guide wowhead
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
dim trail
i often use only the macro
honest saddle
yeah its not a lot
slate marlin
You need to be using cold blood secret tech as your first finisher each dance in...
you use cold blood on the second sectech, not 1st
frank cloud
^
honest saddle
I think using it first dance vs second is like .5% iirc
but yeah, second is optimal
I thought he meant which global, not which dance
coral bear
I hate asking this agian, for the 2nd time
I dont understand why were using shuriken storm in between our coup de grace,
They are saying to ' not waste an unseen blade stack', but im not sure to understand how unseen blade works really even doe i red the whole thing
I thought its just a random proc when doing backstap or shadowstrike
and im not sure what 'stack' is being 'wasted'
iron plover
I thought its just a random proc when doing backstap or shadowstrike
Well I mean you use shuriken storm instead of shadowstrike
If you shadowstriked you would have a chance of proccing unseen blade no?
so thatās why you use shuriken storm
hazy breach
and im not sure what 'stack' is being 'wasted'
Disorienting strikes
coral bear
Yeah I dont get why, it would be a waste to use shadowstrike, or backstab,
iron plover
Yeah I dont get why, it would be a waste to use shadowstrike, or backstab,
Yea so if you proc it inbetween coups it doesnāt count towards your next coup
honest saddle
tepid trellis
it will proc, cuz you are presisng sectech before you send coup
iron plover
To get to next coup faster
honest saddle
ahhhh
hazy breach
Because while 4p is up, you cannot build towards your next coup
honest saddle
its wasting a stack
iron plover
So you have 2 guaranteed unseen blade procs on your next two SSs
honest saddle
yeah yeah makes perfect sense
honest saddle
honest saddle
unseen blade is what is pushing coup stacks to 4
but it cant push the stack
if its already at 4
coral bear
So everytime you proc unseen blade
YOu get 1 stack of coup correct?
honest saddle
exactly
coral bear
After using Secret Tehcniques, u get 2 free unseen blade
So If i was to secret technique > shadow strike > Coup, i dont want to waste my 1 free unseen
coral bear
so i would shuriken is that correct?
Ok, that only works if im 3/4 coup after pressing Secret Techniques correct?
wraith gust
ok my buddy just sent me a screenshot of a sub rogue supposedly doing 9 million boss damage first boss of HoA +17. Is this real? Or is that with add funnel
haven't played sub this season
iron plover
ok my buddy just sent me a screenshot of a sub rogue supposedly doing 9 million ...
Add funnel
frank cloud
sometimes i feel like its really only worth it when using shadow blades though
hazy breach
If the fight was like 45 seconds it could be without adds
honest saddle
sometimes i feel like its really only worth it when using shadow blades though
believe the guide specifically says only in blades
hazy breach
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
iron plover
ok my buddy just sent me a screenshot of a sub rogue supposedly doing 9 million ...
Ive finished with 10M on floodgates 1st boss with adds being dragged in for reference, but that boss technically has a dmg amp phase
gaunt bluff
rotund urchin
any youtuber dedicated to raid subtlety
bitter cloud
!wa
wicked joltBOT
iron plover
its more like 12
Ping and tell them instead >:)
iron plover
I havenāt been in many groups that pull that big onto 1st boss HoA
dusk stone
ok my buddy just sent me a screenshot of a sub rogue supposedly doing 9 million ...
yeah sub pumps more or less
iron plover
Probably since itās all pugging and the tanks donāt trust us 
Hard getting into groups probably cause I donāt have a S2 io rating
dusk stone
i think there's lot of bad sub rogues out there tbh
same reason we were talking about not trusting arcanes a min ago
iron plover
Oo
probably me
All the m+ dungeons are new so I died a lot when I was learning them this season =)
dusk stone
well what i mean is from the amount of ppl we see coming in here just yoloing stuff
iron plover
Cowabunga it is
viscid urchin
signal cradle
Hi! Does someone have a Weakauras that reminds me to have my Tricks of the trade active? Everytime I die I forget them :/
dark cedar
Backstab does not always apply Fazed.. is there any internal CD for Faze debuff?
void ocean
assa sux for swapping, even fatebound
sullen hare
Shadow strike is normally how we apply it iirc
idle aurora
lol donāt play outlaw outlaw this season made me want to quit wow now Iām going sub
No matter how hard I try I canāt break 5-5.4 million in keys š
Sub is a happy place between between super hard if you make mistakes and super fun when engine firing
vale pine
subtlety is a bit too punishing in my opinion
dark cedar
Shadowstrike also not 100%
vale pine
it is hard to recover from mistakes
tepid trellis
Backstab does not always apply Fazed.. is there any internal CD for Faze debuff?
needs to proc an unseen blade proc
for it to apply fazed
its only sectech and unseen blade that put up fazed
elder isle
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
dark cedar
what if you are at max combopoints, have coup proc and dont have fazed up... should you keep using builders until proc Fazed?
or cast Rupture even if not needed a refresh
tepid trellis
only time that really happens is if you are holding coup for cds
in which case you go into dance and press sectech first so its gonna be up
gusty schooner
champion netherprism or mythic tier pants from vault? sims suggest netherprism, what gives?
warm marlin
netherprism is our best trinket by far, especially if you don't have a good alternative
idle aurora
__Subtlety Macros:__
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together becaus...
Wait so my 8 button cast sequence to hammer through blades trinket symbols is a bad idea it seems to get me into burst rotation super quick
warm marlin
would feel real bad to take a champ one over mythic tier pants, but getting access to prism should be your number one gearing priority. i would still only take a normal track one if you really dont think youll get one from raid for a while though
mighty citrus
sad, classtuning gave no buffs for us :p
idle aurora
Is doing a cast sequence REALLY the same as macroing š
flint steppe
I'm noticing a lot of discrepancies between M+ builds for Sub rogues on different websites, is there an accepted build that is top DPS this far into the season yet?
flint steppe
Ya but those builds are generally for super high keys and may not be applicable to other situations
idle aurora
Yupā¦ā¦but thatās the thing right
Five heads only want to know āthe bestā
Someone else could speak to it but I donāt think sub is wildly flexible
I think whysper in assassination did a massive study about how like 6 talents make up 90% of dps and the rest just all adjust a % here or there lol
nova anvil
tea
signal bramble
Question, can i preload stacks for Netherprism
example: Can I stack 18 stacks and then walk into raid and pull boss
vale pine
stacks reset on encounter start
flint steppe
Im mainly asking about the Rogue side of the tree, where some builds are saying Thistle Tea tree for M+ and some builds are using the Cold Blood tree (including the top build on murlok.io right now). I generally prefer Cold Blood and crit dmg over Thistle Tea and energy personally, but most guides say Thistle Tea for M+.
vale pine
Im mainly asking about the Rogue side of the tree, where some builds are saying ...
both is fine, tea is a bit more aoe, cold blood a bit more single target
but its a choice you can't go wrong on
tea feels better for most
signal bramble
Are you guys liking Sigil over astral?
I noticed the sims are wayyyy off
5m patchwerk shows sigil doing like 9m dmg but a 5m target dummy its doing close to 30m
honest saddle
thats because the target dummy is dead
signal bramble
even on fights like plex and loomy its usually in the 40-50m
flint steppe
And I also noticed a lot of recent builds are dropping Replicating Shadows for M+, is this really the move? It feels so useful to me personally to DOT up everything while the tank is gathering the mobs, but I also know that Trickster doesn't like Rupture as much as Deathstalker so maybe I'm just losing DPS to satisfy monkey brain neuron activation
kind river
I like replicating while the tank is gathering stuff
honest saddle
even on fights like plex and loomy its usually in the 40-50m
#1 parse with that trinket on Loomi Mythic
vale pine
subtlety isn't rly in a key for aoe, so replicating brings value
kind river
I play with different tanks all the time so I never know when they are gonna stop pulling
honest saddle
I like replicating while the tank is gathering stuff
That's what I do.
signal bramble
#1 parse with that trinket on Loomi Mythic
Weird...mine did 46m
kind river
it also feels great that you won't pull aggro on a random pat or mob that walks in to your burst pull while your doing like 25m
since tricks lasts an hour
iron plover
Weird...mine did 46m
Maybe cause top parse group probably killed quicker?
iron plover
oop
signal bramble
hard to say could just be rng
plush roost
Guys i read the patch notes and the rogue bugfix section went crazymode!
flint steppe
One more question---- how many targets do we need before we switch from Eviscerate to Black Powder, assuming priority damage isn't needed?
honest saddle
4
signal bramble
Guys i read the patch notes and the rogue bugfix section went crazymode!
lol where do you see those? are they in stealth
honest saddle
One more question---- how many targets do we need before we switch from Eviscera...
Gameplay changes:
BP on 4+ targets / 3 targets with the Find Weakness Debuff.
mossy cradle
Is it illegal to Macro Prism with Flag in Dungeon Spec?
tepid trellis
if you were to macro it, it would be to blades
kind river
^
honest saddle
what would be some reasons you wouldnt want to macro it to blades
mossy cradle
But i have Blades marco with SecretTechnique
tepid trellis
what would be some reasons you wouldnt want to macro it to blades
to stack it up to 18 stacks for dmg amps or higher AoE value pull
honest saddle
gotcha
feral bluff
But i have Blades marco with SecretTechnique
This is troll no?
flint steppe
I have a cast sequence macro that casts Shadow Blades with no trinket after Flagellation, and then my normal Shadow Blades keybind is macrod to Prism, seems to work well once I got the muscle memory odwn
that way I can hold Prism and still use Shadow Blades without new keybinds
honest saddle
but I run a blades tech macro, and a tech macro. So I can tech naked or without blades if I want
kind river
lol I checked loomithar to see how my assa parse was holding up, this guy at the top is just casually 717
vestal escarp
feral bluff
!macros
mossy cradle
i am new to the spec. i thought Blades + SecretTech is a good idea. if the pull is dying i simple dont press the button, right?
!macro
swift tinsel
certainly some...interesting notes
winter ice
I would definitely unmacro it
flint steppe
Secret Technique is used much more often than blades so macroing them together doesn't really work
feral bluff
Secret Technique is used much more often than blades so macroing them together d...
ye this
flint steppe
and there are many times where you would want to hold blades cooldown but still use technique
flint steppe
On the topic of macroing thigns together, the common advice seems to be to macro Thistle Tea to Shadow Dance and this makes zero sense to me, shortly into the dungeon Thistle Tea will be stuck at 1 charge with no way to time burst windows, right?
swift tinsel
well you burn through three charges in the first like 30 seconds of a pull/dungeon
then you just kinda use them as they come back up for your dances that they're up for
tepid trellis
he is stuck with the illusion that the talent matters for dmg
which it doesent really
both CB and tea
both blow
honest basin
^
honest basin
First world problems, every choice is so bad that you can pick any of them š©
tepid trellis
you can choose between cow shit or horse shit
but at the end of the day
they are both just shit
flint steppe
I know neither matter much, its the 20% crit dmg or the 100 energy and regen that matter more, but if you are going to just macro thistle tea to shadow dance, you would probably be better off not taking it at all and taking 11 point in the cold bood tree instead for 10% crit dmg
1 point* typo
tepid trellis
tea is just 1% more AoE where as CB is 1% more single target
swift tinsel
lethality crit dmg% doesnt apply to flurried damage
flint steppe
Like unless you are manually using Thistle Tea during important windows, 10% crit dmg has to be better
flint steppe
Ya but I still think it has to be better than Thistle Tea macrod to Shadow Dance. Thistle Tea manually cast during important times is probably better still
honest basin
Dw next xpac we're becoming a haste mastery class 
I communed with the stars and they foretold it
flint steppe
The important times are Shadow Blades, macroing Tea to Shadow Dance means like half the time you will use the charges outside blades window
swift tinsel
guess when you use at least two tea charges
dance in blades
kachow
plus you'll likely auto-consume them
between
so it doesn't really matter
flint steppe
I thought this was the Sub spec was short for Subtlety not Suboptimal, but whatever
tepid trellis
wat
tepid trellis
its literally the optimal way to use it
swift tinsel
interesting feelycraft
bleak night
flint steppe
Macroing it to Shadow Dance is literally not the most optimal way to use it, its the easiest way to use it lol
tepid trellis
where is your proof of that?
swift tinsel
Macroing it to Shadow Dance is literally not the most optimal way to use it, its...
tell that to the robot that sims it thousands of times
flint steppe
it lasts 6 seconds, Shadow Dance lasts 8 seconds, it would be better to use it in the last 6 seconds of Dance not the first
bleak night
swift tinsel
its not meant to buff the whole dance window
just the parts of it that do the most damage
why would buffing the last 6 seconds be better
flint steppe
Because Dance Macabre
swift tinsel
lmao
tepid trellis
lmfao
swift tinsel
jebaited
honest basin
I mean if you think that using it that way does more damage nobody is stopping you from doing that lol. Lots of people do weird shit bc it feels better or what have you
In theory you should just listen to sims but if you wanna do something else you control the buttons you press
I just kinda press shit when it feels right most of the time anyways cuz remembering rules is for squares 
ain't nothing stopping you
flint steppe
I think you are all being pedantic to the extreme and assuming the worst in my rotation, because I don't macro Tea to Shadow Dance I must be a bad player using it after Secret Technique, obviously, lmao
Whatever, keep circlejerking
swift tinsel
I think you are all being pedantic to the extreme and assuming the worst in my r...
none of us critique your rotation
you made a claim
tepid trellis
no, im just saying your feelycraft is off
swift tinsel
we refuted using evidence
tepid trellis
and is not backed by numbers
where is macroing it to dance is backed by numbers
shown to be the best way to do it
hollow spear
You're supposed to use sectec at the beginning of dance, so using tea for the end of it is kind of a problem
honest basin
nobody called you bad brother or assumed you were bad
flint steppe
Ya, Tea has 3 charges, saving the charges for important times is harder but higher damage than just macroing it to Shadow Dance. Just because you are lazy and macro them together doesnt make it the best solution, whatever your sims say
honest basin
Just pointing out that we have sims that say when is optimal to do things
tepid trellis
thats the thing its not higher
tepid trellis
cuz you have to stop pressing buttons to not hit the energy threshold which means you halting dmg and halting cdr, in turn losing you dmg
its not a give and take for free
hollow spear
Make an apl that does it the way you think is optimal and show us the way
honest basin
If you have quantifiable evidence that what you're saying is true, then I'd believe it
swift tinsel
^
flint steppe
If you used more tea charges during shadow blades windows than without you will do more damage, thats a fact
honest basin
damn the auto tea narrative migrated to sub
Bro I can't escape it
flint steppe
and macroing tea to SD makes this impossible
lucid jackal
TRUTH NUKE
ripe flame
Bro I can't escape it
everywhere I go there's an auto tea malder
lucid jackal
It's just a fact guys
honest basin
I thought we were a tea-free zone but here I am haunted by tea in my own dojo
swift tinsel
only tea I accept is served by Iroh
honest basin
warm pond
!aoe
hollow spear
Stop circlejerking guys, pack it up
swift tinsel
but I'm so close
hollow spear
The truth has been revealed
honest basin
Stop circlejerking guys, pack it up
Hold on I'm almost finished
swift tinsel
hngggg
warm pond
!aoe
flint steppe
Seriously refute how what I said is wrong. Why would using Tea charges manually to ensure they are used during Shadow Blades windows be less damage than macroing it to Shadow Dance?
Just admit you are lazy
tepid trellis
you are only looking at it in a vacuum of a cd window
flint steppe
You can say the damage difference is so small that it doesnt matter
tepid trellis
and thats not how the game really works
flint steppe
but yo ucant say macroing them together is more damage
tepid trellis
a fight is not 24 seconds long
if you were to want to hold tea for blades every time
you would have not press anything ever
in so generatating fuck all cdr
outside of the passive time that goes by
and that
flint steppe
There are 3 charges, holding it isnt a loss as long as you arent capping on charges
tepid trellis
loses you more
lunar crystal
Is it just me, or does the global between coup de grace and empowered coup the grace feel very clunky?
tepid trellis
its not about the fucking tea charges
swift tinsel
Is it just me, or does the global between coup de grace and empowered coup the g...
nah it does
its slightly longer than a regular gcd
lunar crystal
It feels like it goes on double gcd or something?
hollow spear
It's 1.2
lunar crystal
Ahaa
tepid trellis
Is it just me, or does the global between coup de grace and empowered coup the g...
they are 1.2 sec long compared to 1
honest basin
Is it just me, or does the global between coup de grace and empowered coup the g...
They "said" they "fixed" the funky global on coup but it definitely still feels sus
swift tinsel
so its def clunky
lunar crystal
Feels very sus
swift tinsel
you just get to experience it twice as much with 4pc lol
hollow spear
*feels very sub
swift tinsel
same with coup shadowcraft refunds
tepid trellis
nah what they did was remove the hard gcd lockout
swift tinsel
yeah fuck that part
tepid trellis
so you couldnt press defensives and shit during it
honest basin
you just get to experience it twice as much with 4pc lol
That's probably why it feels so bad lmao
swift tinsel
that's what made me not play it s1
flint steppe
Ill take that "macroing tea to Shadow Dance is convenient and the DPS loss is so small that it doesnt really matter", but theres no way macroing it together is the best solution for minmaxing dps, thats just straight up illogical
honest basin
2x the coup 2x the painge
swift tinsel
the gcd/animation lock felt omegabad
honest basin
Ill take that "macroing tea to Shadow Dance is convenient and the DPS loss is so...
It is, and we have sims to prove that it is lol
swift tinsel
and then they removed the animation for a bit
honest basin
You can believe it or not believe it but that's just the hard truth of it
honest basin
the gcd/animation lock felt omegabad
Don't forget the dash
honest basin
It only killed me 3 times but I'll never forget those 3 deaths
honest basin
One of them wiped us on court
swift tinsel
lmao a true flex
honest basin
I hit coup on the skinny dude right as he jumped away and it got buffered so I dashed across the room LMAO
I was a web person
hollow spear
I am not 100% sure, but didn't Whispyr say that just running into auto tea (i.e. not even macroing it to shiv) is dps neutral or sometimes even positive
swift tinsel
lmfao that would have been hilarious to see
lucid jackal
I mean if u think it's better. Go crazy
flint steppe
Alright keep circlejerking while being objectively wrong. If you aren't capping on tea charges and you use all charges before the dungeon ends, then using them during your biggest burst windows is more damage. Keep them macrod together if its easier for you, but you are wrong that its more DPS and you have no logic to back your claims
dim trail
!macro
lucid jackal
Alright man
swift tinsel
why is the leaf so mad
dim trail
!macro
dense mountain
classic junkrat ragebait
honest basin
I am not 100% sure, but didn't Whispyr say that just running into auto tea (i.e....
I think he mostly just tells people to shut the fuck up when they ask about tea because it's meaningless feelycraft
hollow spear
Looking forward to your 100 parses with optimal tea usage mate!
flint steppe
You are acting liek maually casting thistle tea has a GCD or something
swift tinsel
uh who is
honest basin
No but not auto proccing it has a real cost associated with it
frail nexus
!fuu
flint steppe
You have 200 energy, if you are auto proccing it that yous playing badly
tepid trellis
at the end of the day he is the one thats making a claim but has absolute fuck all to back it up with
swift tinsel
classic internet
lucid jackal
LOL
honest basin
lmfao that would have been hilarious to see
Raidlead said in voice as I was dead with head in hands IRL "seraxis? Where are you what happened?"
hollow spear
I'd argue using your mental bandwidth for manual teas is omega waste
lucid jackal
Truth supernova
tepid trellis
he can go be mad and scream at a cheese or smth for all i care
flint steppe
If your sims are assumming cosntant auto procs of course your sims say macroing it to shadow dance does more damage, that doesnt really apply to reality
swift tinsel
wait does screaming at cheese make it better
swift tinsel
nah that's crazy
hollow spear
I have been screaming at meat, was I doing it wrong?
swift tinsel
imagine testing possible iterations
ripe flame
obv no one thought of that before
swift tinsel
with multiple perspectives
tepid trellis
couldnt be me
honest basin
And then I had to explain how coup works to 19 people who don't play rogue, and how what happened was not my fault
swift tinsel
in a thread of people who do this for a living
honest basin
swift tinsel
what a world that would be
swift tinsel
And then I had to explain how coup works to 19 people who don't play rogue, and ...
me explaining literally anything about rogue
hollow spear
None I want to be a part of
swift tinsel
they asked for soulbinder if I wanted lust for my cds
honest basin
in a thread of people who do this for a living
Whoa whoa you think I'm alive? Buddy I'm a sub player, I've been dead inside since voti
shrewd lantern
and yeah most people who dont main rogue
are dumb as bricks on how the class works
tepid trellis
in a thread of people who do this for a living
nah i just put random shit on a dartboard and throw shit at it
swift tinsel
for the big spawn
flint steppe
The reality is you people have all of your self worth tied to WoW and parsing, so some outsider saying you aren't playing 100% optimally creates massive cognitive dissonace that you can't handle
tepid trellis
and thats what gets put into the apl
swift tinsel
nah i just put random shit on a dartboard and throw shit at it
wait you work at blizz?!
knew it
honest basin
nah i just put random shit on a dartboard and throw shit at it
I KNEW IT!
flint steppe
anywways im out, keep up the circlejerks
swift tinsel
that explains the notes today
bleak night
honest basin
#fucktheAPL #takestealthioutofcontext
hollow spear
That street urchin guy reads like ai generated malding ragebait
swift tinsel
#providenoquantdatajustyellaboutcirclejerkingbcyouwerentinvited
honest basin
Defo malding, if ragebait it's pretty low quality
hollow spear
He smoked the tea instead of macroing it
hollow spear
Maybe afraid of Whispyr yelling at them
honest basin
LMAO
hollow spear
Looking for shelter here
swift tinsel
auto tea malding in the sub channel in 2025
add that to someone pinging whispyr here to ask sub questions
flint steppe
Lol, you guys are just totally stuck and won't accept any outside logic, the sims are infallible gospel and can't possibly be wrong, ok. 20% mastery during any random Shadow Dance is higher DPS than using them during blades windows, ok, you are right
honest basin
Whispyr does tell people who mad about auto tea to fuck off
honest basin
Lol, you guys are just totally stuck and won't accept any outside logic, the si...
Yes
ripe flame
add that to someone pinging whispyr here to ask sub questions
trueee, we need to get some ravenholdt bingo cards going
swift tinsel
IT'S BECAUSE YOU DON'T FLOSS
hollow spear
But muh mastery
honest basin
Sims are fallible but give the highest probability of providing the correct situations to use things in being that they iterate things many thousands more times than any human could possibly replicate without years of work
shrewd lantern
idk i dont play tea because i aint no chud
swift tinsel
yeah tea stinky
honest basin
Oh yeah I didn't even throw in the part about how I don't even play tea cuz it's a dogshit talent
flint steppe
If you are using the Tea for the energy and not just the mastery buff ,then this is further reason not to macro it to Shadow Dance lmao
idle aurora
The reality is you people have all of your self worth tied to WoW and parsing, s...
lol I have a friend who 99 parses every season who just makes his spec to how he likes to play and knows that he can perform it. Drives me nuts and I sit and play keep it rolling and hate my life cause I have cognitive dissonance over losing 6% on HO which I can play 10x better lol
hollow spear
I love cold blooding the three remaining shitter mobs with 5 mio hp
lucid jackal
Tea optimizations used to be relevant. They get tested, but ever since the auto tea proc, all of their gains have basically disappeared
twin quartz
The truth is, using tea as you describe is probably a very small difference in dps. Itās just that refining the apl is what refines the theory of whatās optimal and instructs the community on how to get the most out the spec
honest basin
CB is also a dogshit talent but it's like a lovable dumpster fire that I've been stuck with for years now so I've grown accustomed to the shittery
flint steppe
I agree chonky that its a very small difference in DPS, I just dont agree that macroing Shadow Dance and Tea together is a dps increase when playing optimally.
hollow spear
It also reveals the traitors who switch to fatebound
honest basin
I love cold blooding the three remaining shitter mobs with 5 mio hp
It's a "we have way too much DPS for this key" classic
swift tinsel
It also reveals the traitors who switch to fatebound
the most important part tbh
out them all
tepid trellis
The truth is, using tea as you describe is probably a very small difference in d...
the truth is, that playing around the energy threshold to not auto proc is a bigger dmg loss than having it for blades
its crazy
unheard of really
swift tinsel
made up lies spread by a raccoon
twin quartz
I defer to the sims honestly. You guys test pretty much every logic
tepid trellis
yeh mb
lucid jackal
I agree chonky that its a very small difference in DPS, I just dont agree that m...
If it was a dps gain, it would have been found with the sims
hollow spear
Raccoons are not trustworthy
honest basin
I played fatebound on loomi bc I got a ton of sin gear shoved in my face and figured fuck it why not(and my rl said I was allowed to sit on boss and ignore the lil silk things)
swift tinsel
no sims are evil
lucid jackal
That's our point lol
tepid trellis
spreading missinfo on the internet daily
swift tinsel
sims kicked my cat
tepid trellis
is my daily life
lucid jackal
When tea became an auto proc, we tested the apl for "is it worth it to pool energy to not auto proc"
It was never worth it
tepid trellis
That's our point lol
in vacum of 30 sec fights on pull its very big!
swift tinsel
sounds made up
hollow spear
Sims are taking our jobs
swift tinsel
bc I said so with no proof
tepid trellis
just sucks that fights arent 30 sec long
upper narwhal
imagine how cringe the gameplay would be if it was correct to avoid auto proccing tea
honest basin
Stealthi came to my house, unplugged my mouse, knocked my cat over, and turned all my hanging pictures at a slight angle
swift tinsel
with enough sub rogues they could be 30 sec long
lucid jackal
The reason we use sims to figure out things like this is because intuition isn't always correct. I don't think intuition would guide us towards holding coup for 20 seconds or using storm in between coups in blades
Or using backstab in dance first generator
flint steppe
All this being said, Tea should be a choice node with an option to not auto proc, thats why I dont even use the talent, I use cold blood because Tea is fuckign annoying
honest basin
LMAO it was low tier rage bait
flint steppe
Its like they made the talent to make sub easier for the bottom 30%
hoary bloom
!guide
devout jackal
honest basin
All this being said, Tea should be a choice node with an option to not auto proc...
Real tho fuck tea all my homies hate tea, and invigorating shadow dust
shrewd lantern
All this being said, Tea should be a choice node with an option to not auto proc...
have you tried not spamming
warm marlin
The reason we use sims to figure out things like this is because intuition isn't...
Well someoneās intuition always starts it
honest basin
May shadow dust forever rest in HELL WHERE IT BELONGS
swift tinsel
you're poopy
honest basin
š
swift tinsel
yeah that's right I'm slangin mud
honest basin
Brother my name is NUMBER ONE DUST HATER YOU THINK I AINT GONNA TAKE SHOTS AT DUST?!
FUCK DUST
warm marlin
I think itās disappointing when you have a feelycraft idea that makes logical sense for the robot to shoot you down
honest basin
warm marlin
Itās a bit sad
honest basin
:3
swift tinsel
MY NAME IS BP AT 4 OR MORE TARGETS BUT PEOPLE KEEP ASKING NAMES MEAN NOTHING
shrewd lantern
How are people spamming that hard they autoproc tea as sub
honest basin
LMAOOOOO
tepid trellis
Brother my name is NUMBER ONE DUST HATER YOU THINK I AINT GONNA TAKE SHOTS AT DU...
you are not number 1 tho
i am
honest basin
you are not number 1 tho
honest basin
I hate dust so much that I lost my job, my house, and my wife to attend a one man protest outside blizzard hq
IM SO FUCKING LONELY BUT DUST IS GONE SO ITS OKAY
š
shrewd lantern
āim energy starved because i thought spamming backstab for 50 dmg matteredā
lucid jackal
Well someoneās intuition always starts it
Well yes but it's more the point that you can't just say "x is intuitive/obvious" without simming it to be sure
twin quartz
I love watching all the possible variations on how you can play outlaw, different little cooks tested, and the result comes out āye itās within error or just slightly differentā, but occasionally something is found thatās amazing. Itās an iterative process
honest basin
āim energy starved because i thought spamming backstab for 50 dmg matteredā
Wym my backstabs don't matter? My uptime! My parse!!!
lunar crystal
This rotten tech that so many of the top players are doing, is it just a feely thing, or does it have some merit?
mossy chasm
why is the breakpoint for black powder at 4 targets but nimble flurry works up to 7 š¤
honest basin
honest basin
why is the breakpoint for black powder at 4 targets but nimble flurry works up t...
Black powder hits really hard
honest basin
Nimble flurry has no interaction with shadowed finishers
Blizzard hates us and wants us to suffer
Smth along those lines
shrewd lantern
Blizzard hates us and wants us to suffer
Best thing i can offer is goremawās bite
0% pickrate
This better be a yap of bfa Guy proportions or ima be disappointed
flint steppe
Honestly, you are a bunch of assholes who are clinging to each other---I came in asking questions about Thistle Tea and you circlejerked for 20 minutes before someone said "Holding energy to not auto proc is a DPS loss"---this is true, but it's not at all the same as "macroing tea to Shadow Dance is a dps gain", not even close
Anyways enjoy the circlejerk, but you aren't worth interacting with
bleak night
mossy chasm
Black powder hits really hard
but it does not advance coup the grace, so half your hero tree goes away
honest basin
Man I was hoping for a good one
shrewd lantern
I need something fun
tepid trellis
but it does not advance coup the grace, so half your hero tree goes away
that has nothing to do with bp
that would be shadowstrike
honest basin
but it does not advance coup the grace, so half your hero tree goes away
Correct black powder doesn't but neither does eviscerate. Shadowstrike does
tepid trellis
that advances it
shrewd lantern
like a ryukage outlaw cook
honest basin
I need something fun
Goremaw's PV cook /w dark brew
hollow spear
You mean one that forces you to air the kitchen for 2 weeks?
shrewd lantern
Goremaw's PV cook /w dark brew
With gloomblade?
honest basin
LMAO
mossy chasm
oh i mixed that up. so you dont even use shuriken in dance. thank you!
lucid jackal
Anyways enjoy the circlejerk, but you aren't worth interacting with
You have literally posted a sendoff post like 5 times
Just leave bro
honest basin
I feel like a goremaw's DB gb cool could be REAL stinky
final wasp
honest basin
Cook*
swift tinsel
Lol I kinda wanna make a haste gear set just for shits
lucid jackal
Guys I'm leaving. I'm done here. Goodbye, I won't be coming back. Goodnight. I'm moving on. No more responses. You guys are too much, fuck you. Goodbye. Goodnight. Guys I'm really leaving this time
final wasp
Thank fuck, now we can have fully structured sentences in posts on discord 
Oh, its a meme.
alpine wraith
jebaited
lucid jackal
I've gotten much better at my formatting thank you very much
honest basin
Guys I'm leaving. I'm done here. Goodbye, I won't be coming back. Goodnight. I'm...
Me pressing goremaw's bite without a care in the world here in an hour when I'm off work
swift tinsel
time for Rotten/PV/Goremawmaxxing
honest basin
Dude listen
It's optimal
Clearly PV + 6 dm stacks and tea makes goremaw's an optimal button to press
It JUST makes sense.
twin quartz
time for Rotten/PV/Goremawmaxxing
Yup, and no shadowcraft, and use shuriken tornado in CDs
honest basin
Yup, and no shadowcraft, and use shuriken tornado in CDs
No room for shadowcraft goremaw's does too much damage
twin quartz
Oh shit, true
flint steppe
Ok back to the Thistle Tea argument--- if you are going to macro it to something, why not Backstab on your Stealth bar instead of Shadow Dance? This is the same effect with a little more flexibility
swift tinsel
if you wanna feel the worst spec gameplay just go with shadowcraft-less no-inev deathstalker with s3 tier set
even in cds you feel slow as fuck with that setup
mossy cradle
guys, i don't understand the unseen blade mechanic.
I can only build stacks with single target builders.
So in a longer AOE-Fight i lose all my stacks of flawless form, because i only press shuriken storm und never get a coup de grace.
Pls send help, i am lost.
honest basin
if you wanna feel the worst spec gameplay just go with shadowcraft-less no-inev ...
Nah take me back to aberrus where your whole rotation was scripted to a T
swift tinsel
guys, i don't understand the unseen blade mechanic.
I can only build stacks with...
you dance often enough in aoe that you have flawless up for when it matters
flint steppe
No serious question, why not macro it to the backstab on your stealth bar? You cast it once at the start of SD, and its flexible enough that you can just not backstab if you want to hold it for a second
swift tinsel
because you're only striking in dance
you're saying to macro it to dance essentially
because you backstab same global as dance
full circle
honest basin
You only ever backstab in dance with premed e.g. first builder
flint steppe
Yes but its more flexible, if you have Blades coming off CD soon you can just not backstab for one SD
warm marlin
I will simply not play tea as it annoys me
honest basin
If you're backstabbing without premed then... Well don't lol
warm marlin
Cb gang
honest basin
I will simply not play tea as it annoys me
Based and true
Cb gang
Cb is a dumpster fire but it's MY dumpster fire
swift tinsel
tried tea for like two keys and it was doodoo
honest basin
Idc if it's placebo the big funny number when you get the guaranteed crit sectech on a bunch of mobs gives me serotonin in a way tea never will
Call it cope but fuck tea
twin quartz
I only like tea because you incidentally run vigor, and it gives a lot of energy to apply ruptures as the pack is being pulled
mossy cradle
because you're only striking in dance
ahhh, no Shuriken Storm in Dance, now it makes sense.
I start to understand. ty
shrewd lantern
make casual log out
flint steppe
You cast one Backstab per Shadow Dance, at the start, so macroing Tea to it is functionally the same as macroing it to Shadow Dance but more flexible---this has to be a better choice
swift tinsel
I only like tea because you incidentally run vigor, and it gives a lot of energy...
idk I never really notice that I need that with relentless strikes
honest basin
You cast one Backstab per Shadow Dance, at the start, so macroing Tea to it is f...
It's not more flexible because you always press backstab at the same time as dance
It is literally the same thing
twin quartz
Iāll give it a go with cold blood again. Honestly I just swapped to tea and never went back
swift tinsel
if anything I felt uncomfortable with having 100 extra energy lol
flint steppe
Its more flexible because you can choose not to backstab during the last shadow dance before a shadow blades CD
honest basin
Iāll give it a go with cold blood again. Honestly I just swapped to tea and neve...
My secret is I cba to swap talents so I play my raid build point for point in keys
twin quartz
lol fair point
lucid jackal
Its more flexible because you can choose not to backstab during the last shadow ...
I thought u said u were gonna leave
swift tinsel
mine are almost the same lol
flint steppe
So you don't want to listen to a better suggestion than macroing it to Shadow Dance that's more flexible?
swift tinsel
if you can show proof
flint steppe
it's functionally the same in 99% of cases but allows you to hold tea for an upcoming blades occassionally
swift tinsel
which you haven't
plus you're ignoring stealthi repeatedly saying
that playing around not auto-proccing tea
is a loss
but I guess if you ignore enough proof your ideas sound good in your head
upper girder
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/draenor/topnepneko?zone=45
anyone can take a look and tell me how to improve further? latest m+ logs
flint steppe
I'm saying macroing it to backstab is the same playstyle as macroing it to SD, but more flexible in actual edge cases.
swift tinsel
that doesn't accomplish anything
tepid trellis
which you haven't
not backstabbing is probably worse than any tea fiddling
swift tinsel
because you lose the %gain from the bs
rocky creek
question srry if silly , outside major cds. I should always pair Symbols with dance or depends ? (m+)
swift tinsel
right
it either evens out or you lose more from not-BS than you gain by mini-tea in one blades
stuck fractal
quick question regarding stacks of unseen blade; it seems i get them seemingly at random whether i press shadowstrike, backstab, and sometimes secret tech.
can anyone explain the rhyme or reason as to why i sometimes sit on 3 stacks of unseen blade for quite some time before getting my cdg proc?
tepid trellis
20sec icd
with random resets on auto
sectech
gives you 1 stack on the next two strikes/backstab after use
and 2p allows you to randomly procc an extra
that about sums it up
stuck fractal
ty bossa
flint steppe
So just don't not backstab in 99% of cases and it's the same, but this still allows you to hold tea for important windows, like say a double damage phase like Jumpstart from Big Momma
swift tinsel
but go on
flint steppe
If you always backstab the first GCD of dance, then macroing it to tea instead of dance is more flexible and the same thing. You just don't like hearing an idea that's better than yours.
swift tinsel
If you always backstab the first GCD of dance, then macroing it to tea instead o...
I'm waiting to hear one
flint steppe
Ya, macroing tea to backstab on stealth bar instead of SD, thats the idea, its better.
swift tinsel
plus I thought you left half an hour ago
swift tinsel
Ya, macroing tea to backstab on stealth bar instead of SD, thats the idea, its b...
backstab is already macroed to dance
keep on keepin on
final wasp
How many times has this gone in a circle?
flint steppe
Macroing backstab to dance is also suboptimal for many reasons, so you people are just straight up dumb I guess.
final wasp
Macroing backstab to dance is also suboptimal for many reasons, so you people ar...
Insulting people because they dont agree with you isnt a good look, bruv.
swift tinsel
good for moroes honestly
upper girder
daym
north schooner
moroes vanished
flint steppe
You are going to keep shitting on me in chat then go and macro tea to backstab on your stealth bar
swift tinsel
works hard
upper girder
bot is dead
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/draenor/topnepneko?zone=45 care to take a look for me? give me some feedback
flint steppe
You can say its a dumb idea all you want, you know its better than macroing it to SD
Its exactly the same but more flexible
final wasp
Then you are free to follow your own theorycrafting 
swift tinsel
^
tepid trellis
Then you are free to follow your own theorycrafting <:thumbsup:10069771954760008...
sorry
it is not theory
honest basin
You are going to keep shitting on me in chat then go and macro tea to backstab o...
We're going to keep playing the iteration of sub that the Sims say is optimal because that's how the video game is played in the modern age. If you want to play a different way you're more than welcome to, but saying "No, you're wrong" without providing substantial proof(which we have access to due to simulations being readily available) then you just look like an idiot.
swift tinsel
or provide any proof to show you're right
final wasp
Its a phrase, stealthi 
swift tinsel
but that's just a theory
graceful crown
hey guys, im genuinely terrified but please be honest and constructive, i need some help understanding what I'm doing wrong with my logs and gameplay and what I can improve on https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/argent-dawn/xiĆ³ngmao?
flint steppe
You cast 1 backstab per shadow dance as your first GCD, so macroing it to Shadow Dance is the same thing, but allows you to play around it in edge cases like double damage phases
tepid trellis
how bout i show you a phrase later
swift tinsel
...can I watch
tepid trellis
no?
swift tinsel
fine
honest basin
HUH?
swift tinsel
need to put together a chair anyways
tepid trellis
im bout to make shiennar sing out like celine dion ong
final wasp
on JAH
naive summit
You cast 1 backstab per shadow dance as your first GCD, so macroing it to Shadow...
just bind tea dog
flint steppe
You wont even give the idea a chance because you know its better than macroing it to Shadow Dance and you've doubled down too many times in this argument
warm marlin
oh there is another coup bug that i somehow haven't seen mentioned anywhere with cold blood
final wasp
You wont even give the idea a chance because you know its better than macroing i...
Do you happen to have a sim showing its an increase? 
swift tinsel
Do you happen to have a sim showing its an increase? <:smilers:64671029033500672...
sims were created by satan to test our faith
warm marlin
if you cast coldblood too soon (around the final hit of coup) it will consume cold blood
swift tinsel
same with dinosaur bones
swift tinsel
no door on the house
tepid trellis
that one is golden too
honest basin
sims were created by satan to test our faith
Based and true, the faithful stand with our lord and savior, Feelycraft š
swift tinsel
rosebud;rosebud;rosebud
warm marlin
you can see this in the yoinka log for frac: coup cb sectec, but cb is cast slightly early, so the buff fades before sectec cast
and the clones dont crit
final wasp
Because, honestly, if you dont. This is a you say, I say argument. And very honest, I like what Stealthi is saying as a proverbial figure of authority on whats good for sub 
flint steppe
You wont listen to real examples--- Like I said, a double damage phase like Big Momma is coming up, this allows you to never have to hard cast Tea, not change your rotation, and still have an option to hold it for a second for edge cases
restive shore
Any chance to get the old flagellation icon/spell effect like they did with other covenant abilities after changing them?
tepid trellis
you can see this in the yoinka log for frac: coup cb sectec, but cb is cast slig...
just natty crit ong
bleak night
you can see this in the yoinka log for frac: coup cb sectec, but cb is cast slig...
ono
swift tinsel
Any chance to get the old flagellation icon/spell effect like they did with othe...
its still in the game files in weakauras
tepid trellis
CB is for wimps
flint steppe
You only argument is "not casting backstab is probably a dps loss" which is why I said to macro it to backstab---you always cast it as your first GCD, and the only time you wouldnt is for prioirty damage phases
final wasp
Ive macroed backstab to sec tec so it will get that initial hit before flying up into the air
tepid trellis
sectech makes you fly? what typa sorcery is the koffing rocking
flint steppe
Im saying if you are all right about macroing Tea to SD, and right about always casting Backstab as your first GCD, then macroing tea to backstab is the best most flexible solution
swift tinsel
lol right I wanna do that
tepid trellis
and can i get some
swift tinsel
hmge?
bleak night
swift tinsel
the hwhat
final wasp
swift tinsel
the day they add cosmetic spell effect glyphs for rogue
honest basin
You aint using the dfa glyph?
final wasp
the day they add cosmetic spell effect glyphs for rogue
Glyph of pickpocket, now what
swift tinsel
is the day they remember glyphs exist
bleak night
glyphs still make me sad
north schooner
they added pistol shot glyphs, which you literally cannot notice because the pistol is out for a split second
bleak night
they have such a fantastic thing there
honest basin
I use the flash bang glyph for distract bc it's funny
bleak night
and just never use it
swift tinsel
Glyph of pickpocket, now what
that's a character effect
final wasp
that's a character effect
So it cant be cosmetic? 
swift tinsel
So it cant be cosmetic? <:ANGERY:961313532698300456>
not in this economy
final wasp
Real
flint steppe
So no logical response to macroing tea to backstab on stealth bar? Just "sim it yourself"?
swift tinsel
glyphs still make me sad
so true though
swift tinsel
So no logical response to macroing tea to backstab on stealth bar? Just "sim it ...
we're kinda hoping you tire yourself out
flint steppe
Because its objectively the same thing you are saying about macroing it to shadow dance but more flexible
final wasp
So no logical response to macroing tea to backstab on stealth bar? Just "sim it ...
Because, honestly, if you dont show anything but your word. This is a you say, I say argument. And very honest, I like what Stealthi is saying as a proverbial figure of authority on whats good for sub
Copy pasting my previous reply, hell yeah
flint steppe
Im conceding your argument and giving you a better idea
If what you say is true, then its better to macro it to backstab on your stealth bar than SD
swift tinsel
If what you say is true, then its better to macro it to backstab on your stealth...
So show proof
north schooner
we're kinda hoping you tire yourself out
I think this person was in this server before and eventually left because of another argument but I could be misremembering 
honest basin
He's tiring me out
final wasp
We fuggin hate claims amirite bois
swift tinsel
dude I'm so anti-claim its unreal
honest basin
I come in here to shit post while I'm at work at a tea believer has invaded my sacred dojo
swift tinsel
like top 5 world
hazy breach
Blades being 5% in PVP is kinda hilarious 
honest basin
Wym by that
flint steppe
I already gave examples and you wont listen
ripe flame
just follow your feelcraft and enjoy my dude, while everyone does what they already do
final wasp
Examples
swift tinsel
I already gave examples and you wont listen
that's not the same as proof
quantifiable
honest basin
I already gave examples and you wont listen
Examples are not proof. Proof is hard numbers
swift tinsel
not anecdotal
final wasp
Give us something solid, that isnt rooted in your thoughts
honest basin
Show us quantifiable numbers and your argument begins to have a leg to stand on
Until then you're literally just spouting nonsense lol
swift tinsel
we'd ask that of anyone making any kind of declaration like that
because numbers need to back things up
tepid trellis
Blades being 5% in PVP is kinda hilarious <a:KEKWBASS:740244635540258836>
saw that too
swift tinsel
otherwise they don't mean anything
flint steppe
A shadow dance window before Shadow Blades and Jumpstart on big momma-- You use Shadowstrike instead of Backstab for that window and save the tea charge for doubel damage----vs macroing it to Shadow Dance itself giving you no flexibility
tepid trellis
is kinda fkcing funny
final wasp
Thats a throwback to "just delete rupture off ur bars because trust me bro"
swift tinsel
A shadow dance window before Shadow Blades and Jumpstart on big momma-- You use ...
Anecdotal
idk if its a language barrier thing or what
restive shore
its still in the game files in weakauras
Yea changed the icon now inside my weakaura package and created a Macro with the old icon
flint steppe
If you use backstab as your fist GCD anyways, then its functionally the same exact thing, but you can choose to not backstab a lot easier than you can choose to not Shadow Dance
honest basin
A shadow dance window before Shadow Blades and Jumpstart on big momma-- You use ...
There are no solid numbers in there. No iterations of the test.
swift tinsel
Yea changed the icon now inside my weakaura package and created a Macro with the...
wait they still have the really red one in the macros icons?
final wasp
Ok, now give us the number diff
swift tinsel
neat
honest basin
Bro it's like I'm in 6th grade explaining the scientific method to people again
tepid trellis
Ok, now give us the number diff
41,2353213 carrots
swift tinsel
I use sepsis for mine lol
hazy breach
But then youre still losing out because you didnt backstab, if youre so worried about that situation just bind tea manually
icy mulch
I just have everything on separate binds 
swift tinsel
I've transcended keybinds
final wasp
I just have everything on separate binds <:SadgePlant:756594699858346094>
How big are ur hands ong
restive shore
wait they still have the really red one in the macros icons?
They have
icy mulch
How big are ur hands ong
Bigger than Guyās
swift tinsel
cya sepsis icon to the bin you go
icy mulch
And heās got monsters
final wasp
Doesnt take much
tepid trellis
But then youre still losing out because you didnt backstab, if youre so worried ...
thoughts on us starting to never hit the energy break point so we can crank up the tea charges
honest basin
I've transcended keybinds
Most people type with their hands, I move my mouse with my chin and type with my feet
restive shore
cya sepsis icon to the bin you go
Good one
final wasp
Foot pedals pogga
honest basin
No mortal can compare
hazy breach
Sounds insanely poggers, i love holding globals in dance to make sure i dont proc tea
honest basin
Foot pedals 
swift tinsel
I tried neuralink but then it started sending weird images to my brain
tepid trellis
Sounds insanely poggers, i love holding globals in dance to make sure i dont pro...
storm twice out of dance
and its fcking over
swift tinsel
his setup is real peculiar
flint steppe
Again, I'm using specific examples like double damage phases or priority damage phases--- this allows your to hold a tea charge occassionally, but otherwise just use it every SD like you already are. Its the best middle ground between hard casting it and macroing it to SD
final wasp
I aint knocking because I havent tried it, but fuck me you wont catch me dead doing that
hazy breach
Again, I'm using specific examples like double damage phases or priority damage ...
Yeah assuming you dont proc it by itself inbetween
Which you will
honest basin
Again, I'm using specific examples like double damage phases or priority damage ...
Specific examples with no NUMBERS to back them up
swift tinsel
I have a Homedics foot massager under my desk so I'd never use pedals at the expense of that bad boy
hazy breach
Or youll end up holding globals in dance
swift tinsel
100/10 recommend
final wasp
honest basin
I can't have foot pedals or anything under my desk because my cats like to sleep on my feet while I play
final wasp
tepid trellis
Or youll end up holding globals in dance
imagine tho, how bad our cdr would be if we force it to not hit the threshold
final wasp
I cant have pedals under my desk because I have a footrest there
honest basin
<a:SNIFFACHRISTMAS:1050477358894809148>
final wasp
Unluck
warm marlin
does relentless strikes energy proc before or after the auto tea proc 
swift tinsel
I thought auto-tea had a slight delay
tepid trellis
it does
hazy breach
does relentless strikes energy proc before or after the auto tea proc <:hmmge:11...
Not sure
flint steppe
Lets say you are on Forgemaster Araz and you are killing the pylons---if you macro Tea to Backstab you can choose to not backstab for the last SD window you use before he takes double damage---this will be an objective increase in boss damage
swift tinsel
anĀ·ecĀ·doĀ·tal
/ĖanÉkĖdÅd(É)l/
adjective
(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
flint steppe
Obviously you would be using CB in a raid build, but just an example of what im saying
hazy breach
Lets say you are on Forgemaster Araz and you are killing the pylons---if you mac...
Do you know whats a bigger dps increase? Not using dance on pylons
Using it on the boss instead
ripe flame
if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bicycle
swift tinsel
if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bicycle
legendary vid
hazy breach
tepid trellis
if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bicycle
smth smth britsh carbonara
which has nothing to do with a carbonara
flint steppe
Ya well I alreadt said that eleem
ripe flame
which has nothing to do with a carbonara
its just some ham 
flint steppe
My point is there are a lot of fights where damage now doesnt matter as much as upcoming damage, so macroing it backstab allows you to plan around this without having to hard cast tea ever--- just shadowstrike instead of backstab during those windows, very small dps now loss vs dps then gain
final wasp
Do you have any numbers to back up your claim since you are talking about a dps increase?
flint steppe
Im not talking about total damage, im talking about priority damage and edge cases where you would want to save tea even if its a slight loss in dps at the moment
final wasp
alpine wraith
hmm
flint steppe
Again, if you argument is "always cast backstab first GCD and never anything else", then macro it to tea and nothing will change---but now you have more flexibility in certain fights
alpine wraith
owl is that you
tepid trellis
you are giving koffing ptsd hacha
final wasp
So what you are saying is that Ill make a macro, and put it on my stealthbar, but only use it in very fringe cases? Whats the benefit over just using separate binds and muscle memory then?
flint steppe
Im saying that backstab on your stealth bar could be bound to tea, it wouldnt be a different macro
swift tinsel
yeah but if you ignore that part and the gameplay implications tho
flint steppe
Again, this is about edge cases where the dps loss of pooling energy for a second is worth it--- double damage phases, priority damage phases.
tulip folio
is sub best performing spec rn ?
hazy breach
Did you read the tooltip of the spell youre arguing about
swift tinsel
is sub best performing spec rn ?
outside of pure single target sub is doing very well atm
hazy breach
Typically ye
swift tinsel
its about the journey, not the destination
a winding, circuitous journey saying the same things over and over
alpine wraith
sometimes you need to get some acid into the system
final wasp
I swear I have a tequila somewhere
swift tinsel
Oh good call
tulip folio
swift tinsel
minus the tequila part
tulip folio
can any 5 head rogue main explain to me if this is good build
its bit differant for usual m+ build
tepid trellis
Did you read the tooltip of the spell youre arguing about
just dont EVER hit that breakpoint
tulip folio
but i found some high rio people playing this
hazy breach
Its fine
alpine wraith
yea it is ok
hazy breach
Theres a bunch of setups you can use thats all really close
flint steppe
You are too set in your ways and won't listen to advice from people you deem lesser. Tea macrod to backstab on your stealthbar is exactly the same thing as macroing it to SD but slightly more flexible---- you can whine about sims all you want, this is objectively true
hazy breach
Have you read the tooltip of thistle tea
flint steppe
Im saying if you are correct, this is the same thing but better
final wasp
Just because you say its objectively true, doesnt mean that it is.