subtlety

[shrewd lantern]

secret mole

[signal moth]

i mean.. lots of people outside of wow sexually identify as a sub tbh

[shrewd lantern]

[lucid jackal]

A lot of ppl take personal offense when they spec they like is weak or not fun but

[signal moth]

you dont outlaw to wow do you, you sub to wow.. SUB META

[lucid jackal]

Rogue has 3 specs

[fleet wharf]

but my team has to win

[hollow oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/married-with-children-al-bundy-hanging-noose-suicide-gif-4481202

[shrewd lantern]

I miss bfa guy passion takes

like bote vs iris

[short radish]

yeah but i hate the other 2 specs

[signal moth]

i identify as shadowlands

[short radish]

one ruins my wrists and one ruins my mental

[lucid jackal]

All 3 specs are fun for their own reasons

[hollow oxide]

bis expansion

[signal moth]

bis

[shrewd lantern]

wear your shadowlands enthusiast title

or you fake

[lucid jackal]

https://x.com/Hipposareneat/status/1963439042294358322

hippo (@Hipposareneat)

Daydreaming about a shadowlands classic release. I'd play ele shaman first patch, id dual box a druid for the maw to carry myself around, id do torghast as rsham. 2nd patch id play venthyr boomy, id do korthia on 3 characters because its that good. third patch, survival hunter.

X · Sep 4, 2025, 3:08 AM

[alpine skiff]

So if i wanna use rupture, i can press it before using shadow dance? But rupture while shadow is a no no as far as i understand now😅

[signal moth]

maybe when you play it like you do.. lol

[lucid jackal]

Yer

[signal moth]

just keep rupture up, but not in CDs

[alpine skiff]

Oohh ok got it. Thanks yall

[hollow oxide]

thats just meta whoring bullshit

[alpine skiff]

Im starting to get the hang of things (finally)

[signal moth]

id just wait until s3 and s4 and then play bdk lol

[lucid jackal]

Its a pretty easy spec when U actually know what to do

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[shrewd lantern]

or ask guy

why deeper strata was worse than mfd

but most couldnt game mfd

[signal moth]

why was mfd worse than deeper strata?

[ember latch]

Do i hold Dance for SoD?

[signal moth]

Sanctum of domination is long gone

[tepid trellis]

you hold both for sectech

[short radish]

no australian words allowed

[hollow oxide]

I guess that word is a nono

well

rip

[shrewd lantern]

i remember first time

someone called me a bogan

[signal moth]

wtf is a bogan

[short radish]

australian version of a redneck

[signal moth]

wtf is an australian?

[hollow oxide]

stfu bogan

[signal moth]

you hillybilly motherfooker

[tepid trellis]

thought that was just kcenred

[signal moth]

are there any true nascar loving wow players?

[tepid trellis]

nah, i like my racing to be more than just oval's

[ember latch]

#GiveUsControlOfTea

[tepid trellis]

#wedontcare

[signal moth]

why doesnt dance or symbols show in wcl?

[shrewd lantern]

tea?

this aint #assassination

[tepid trellis]

cuz they dont do dmg

[hollow oxide]

bri'ish

[tepid trellis]

and you are looking at dmg

[signal moth]

i dont do dmg

but i am there

[short radish]

[signal moth]

https://tenor.com/view/disappointment-my-is-immeasurable-and-gif-14420754

[ember latch]

wait no tea??

[tepid trellis]

shits crazy

[signal moth]

i wanna see if the buff is up though to see if im clipping it

how me do that

show me

please

[tepid trellis]

timeline

buffs

[hollow oxide]

is bruh sending talent screenshots while dungeoneering?

[signal moth]

can i filter this garbage out, i dont want to see 9000 layers of it

[ember latch]

tis only a 13

[hollow oxide]

oh

youre dead

thats why right?

[ember latch]

baby keyu

[signal moth]

this buffs timeline doesnt show me what i want to see lol

as i want buffs and the casts

hate this game

[signal moth]

https://tenor.com/view/we-need-a-little-bit-more-context-michael-kupris-become-the-knight-we-need-more-information-about-that-give-us-more-additional-information-about-it-gif-12803258902841316367

[ember latch]

wait so should i swap to CB?

[signal moth]

cb = st

tea = aoe

nothing = chad

[hollow oxide]

just go outlaw, can't miss.

[signal moth]

what build do you use for outlaw?

[hollow oxide]

the one that does most damage, duh

[tepid trellis]

also dont know why you care about clipping SoD

you only give a shit about supercharging sectech

duration is w/e

[signal moth]

cause im a fucking moron and i end up sending sectech outside of it

[ember latch]

how about NO

[tepid trellis]

well follow

the fuckin rule then

[hollow oxide]

Season of Discovery?

[tepid trellis]

supercharge

sectech

[signal moth]

no i missed it by 0.7seconds last time

[hollow oxide]

Sanctum of Domination?

[signal moth]

I WANT DANCE

[tepid trellis]

then it wont land out of it

[signal moth]

OK SIR

[graceful osprey]

Raiding today, sub rogue discord, give me your energy for prism drop and rolling a 100

[signal moth]

no

[hollow oxide]

no

the vibes in here are so positive

[signal moth]

go talk in outlaw

[hollow oxide]

nah they're gay

[signal moth]

im cleaning my keyboard inbetween cds with compressed air

[golden coral]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[hollow oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/who-asked-gif-19808527

[signal moth]

should I watch one piece?

[hollow oxide]

ask the weebs in outlaw chat?

[final wasp]

What do you mean by this?

[cursive vapor]

ooh oh

[signal moth]

OHHHHHH

[hollow oxide]

just pointing out someones sexuality as a gay person myself

it's easier to read you know if you are one

[final wasp]

You could also just.. Not.

[hollow oxide]

whats the problem here sir

[signal moth]

he said you could not be gay

[hollow oxide]

thats offensive

to my race

[final wasp]

You are using it as an insult, and you should not do that here. I dont care what you do in other servers.

[hollow oxide]

Its literally not an insult

Youre turning it negative.

[final wasp]

Sure bud.

[hollow oxide]

Ok dad.

[final wasp]

All I need from you is "Im sorry, wont happen again".

[hollow oxide]

Wow. Dunno why youre so offended tbh.

[cursive vapor]

ah nvm im not saying anything

[alpine skiff]

What exactly is the opener? Stealth->shadowstrike, rupture?

[signal moth]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[final wasp]

Im glad we agree on not being offensive. Consider this your warning.

[signal moth]

its shadowstrike, flag, rupture, dance/symbols,backstab,blades,sectech

[hollow oxide]

Still dunno what I did wrong.

Maybe ban the word?

If it's that bad

[alpine skiff]

Ohh, that whole part of the sequence is called the opener, got it

[signal moth]

yh

[alpine skiff]

Im watching shindiggs vid rn and is there a reason he doesnt do the stealth->shadowstrike,rupture part before using shadow dance, symbols, backstab, sectect, shdowstrike, evis?

[strong shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-dark-side-anakin-skywalker-darth-vader-revenge-of-the-sith-gif-25702979

[lilac stag]

Maybe don’t use it as a slur

[hollow oxide]

omfg

[signal moth]

are you a dad yet?

[hollow oxide]

you're a sensitive lil snowflake arent ya

you wanna see an insult wherever you look so you can cry or?

[signal moth]

as an opener?

[lilac stag]

Not at all.

[hollow oxide]

Then dont assume.

It was never an insult to you or anyone here.

[runic trail]

[alpine skiff]

If i dont have my big cds up, and wanna do the rotation with dance, symbols and sectec, is there a reason to not use stealth, shadowstrike, rupture before shadown dance?

[pulsar hemlock]

[ember latch]

tf did i miss

[signal moth]

how can you stealth in combat?

[hollow oxide]

The new generation.

[signal moth]

also shadow dance puts you in 'steahtlh'

so makes no dif

[lilac stag]

It’s text on a channel. It’s a slur as you used it

[cursive vapor]

''go talk in outlaw'' ''nah theyre gay'' you tellin me thats not meant to be insulting?

[icy mulch]

Do you mean like in a dungeon and your stuff isn’t up

[alpine skiff]

Yea i guess. Like is there a reason he left that out when explaining the rotation with small cds. Like is it a waste of time or smth

[hollow oxide]

Holy fucking shit

People need to stop being so negative.

[signal moth]

because dance puts you in stealth to use shadowstrike so why would you stealth for it>

[ember latch]

we really getting upset about the word gay?

[hollow oxide]

I assume I have more gay pictures on my phone than any of you.

[signal moth]

its 2025, cant say gay

[alpine skiff]

With vanish?

[final wasp]

[signal moth]

with shadowdance!

[alpine skiff]

Yea

[warm marlin]

alright hear me out. the unfortunate solution to buffing sub's st without breaking the game is to buff damage outside cds. maybe buff gloomblade and make it takeable (would fix FW too ) and buff melee swings

[ember latch]

the answer is no i cannot

[icy mulch]

You have to decide based on the time left till your cds

[hollow oxide]

I guess.

[ripe flame]

Filter is working overtime

[swift tinsel]

delete FW put gloomblade in first node spot

[warm marlin]

maybe a spicy rupture buff

[icy mulch]

You could be sending mini sets of cds

[swift tinsel]

buff by 60%

[lucid jackal]

?

[icy mulch]

But you don’t have to do the flag opener

[ember latch]

jesus fuck

[warm marlin]

yei like this

[strong shoal]

Soon

[patent crystal]

Give us sylvanas dagger effect

[signal moth]

are you blizzard? soonTM

[pulsar hemlock]

Bring positional hard requirement, buff damage of backstab by 250%

[swift tinsel]

GB becomes Strike so no more BS in dance

[pulsar hemlock]

Also make it so bosses can parry from behind

[swift tinsel]

which makes Strike finally do Shadow Damage

as the name implies

[ripe flame]

Calm down satan

[shrewd lantern]

can we make bosses

resist casts

ty

[swift tinsel]

^^^

if parry exists, spell resist should

[alpine skiff]

Yea thats what i mean. Basically if i dont have my big cds up and i wanna do a small cd rotation. Is there a disadvantage to vanishing, shadowstrike, rupture and THEN dance, symbols, backstab etc?

[swift tinsel]

because you can't always attack from behind

[signal moth]

youre overthinking it

[icy mulch]

There isn’t really an advantage to it over not doing it

[hollow oxide]

oh no the f word.

[alpine skiff]

More dmg?

[signal moth]

using the lords name in vain

[ember latch]

no context picture tell me im playing right kekw

[alpine skiff]

Yeai think i do lol

[icy mulch]

The vanish is like very negligible

[lilac stag]

More BP

[alpine skiff]

Oh he also talks abt a potion/pot before backstab. What kinda potion is that and what is it for?

[signal moth]

read

wowhead

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[lucid jackal]

Don't play dumb

[hollow oxide]

What about?

[final wasp]

The topic is over, he understands his mistake. (Hopefully.)

[lucid jackal]

Okay

[hollow oxide]

You're warning a gay person about saying the word gay.

Calm down mate.

[lilac stag]

Apparently not

[lucid jackal]

[cursive vapor]

your sexuality doesnt matter at all wtf

[ember latch]

syfau

xD

[high wadi]

'i can't be racist because I have a black friend'

[final wasp]

I guess not.

[hollow oxide]

meh

people are crying over nothing

[runic trail]

Just put down the shovel.

[signal moth]

its more i can say n word as im black kind of vibe but sure

[lucid jackal]

Nobody here is crying

Only one crying here is you because we're asking you not to use certain words in a public discord

[hollow oxide]

you all literally took 1 message and started this bs.

[lucid jackal]

Yeah, don't use that word

Not that hard

[hollow oxide]

Ban the word.

[final wasp]

Just dont use words that describe groups of people and put it in a negative context. Its real simple.

[hollow oxide]

I never.

Did that.

[lilac stag]

[final wasp]

Dang.

He got me.

[lilac stag]

He dud

[clever delta]

damn its still going on

[hollow plinth]

"i didn't mean it that way mb" would have ended this i think

[clever delta]

i was looking at sub pro tips

[lucid jackal]

Remember when I said "Don't be stupid"

[warm marlin]

some people just love starting shit

[lilac stag]

Always starts when spec is popular in m+

[hollow plinth]

but it had to be The Woke Generation

[signal moth]

im famous

[lucid jackal]

"I wasn't using this in a negative context"

Get a grip

[hollow oxide]

I literally said that but thats not good enough.

[clever delta]

how are you doing solo

[final wasp]

Rewriting history in real time

[ember latch]

youre playing rogue, youre gay

simple

[signal moth]

hahaha

[hollow oxide]

lol

[signal moth]

unleash the hounds

[ember latch]

esp sub

[limpid sage]

dom rogue confirmed for midnight (real)

[golden totem]

[spiral sierra]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[ember latch]

AYO

[signal moth]

confirmed you can call sub gay but not outlaw gay

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-noted-notes-gif-17474838830648097856

[final wasp]

!mute @signal moth 48h Any other takers?

[cursive vapor]

[final wasp]

!mute @ember latch 48h

[tepid trellis]

double kill

[warm marlin]

[lean aspen]

That was a fast taker

[runic trail]

Who gave Koffing a gun?

[final wasp]

The woke generation apparantly

[runic trail]

YOU HAVE NO HANDS HOW ARE YOU PULLING THE TRIGGER

HELLO?

[spiral sierra]

xD

smoke hands!

well

[swift tinsel]

illuminati confirmed

[ripe flame]

They are smoke bullets

[spiral sierra]

poison

[tepid trellis]

i just gave it back after you gave it to me

[final wasp]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/451631560827994112/1350902980614033428/ride.gif

[shrewd lantern]

Has Koffing fallen down the feral to fursona pipeline yet?

[final wasp]

Im sitting in my fursuit rn, how did you know

[shrewd lantern]

i will say though

ferals have better mogs on average

than boomy or resto players

despite never seeing it

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/zombieland-doubletap-rule2-gif-4789146

[crystal bone]

stealthi entered the chat

https://tenor.com/view/trash-gif-2067421587001062737

[vale pine]

seems like you guys had fun today

[rotund urchin]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[manic salmon]

does anyones uncle here work at blizzard

or know john blizzard

i need a favor

[shell willow]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[frigid ingot]

i'm having trouble maintaining overall good dps in dungeon on subtlety. I always try to send Blades+Flag+2Dances on cd. I can't figure out what i do wrong. Any general ideas?

[steel jolt]

log your keys and post logs here

[frigid ingot]

ok, will try that. Ty

[last gate]

NEED SOME ONE FOR LOG REVIEW 😄

PLS HELP THIS FELLOW YELLOW NAME

[steel jolt]

you don't have to ask to post it, you can just send the link

[vale pine]

writing in caps does not speed up anything

you can type !log and open a thread

[open vortex]

if you proc coup during dance, can you still get full 8 gcds?

[warm marlin]

you have 1s leeway assuming you cast dance/first global exact same ms

each coup reduces that by .2s

if you omega proc 4x coup during a dance it might be hard but otherwise should be fine, unless your dance -> first global delay is really long

[open vortex]

pefr ty

[karmic harbor]

Type !log, I hope it doesn't look like you haven't read a guide

[last gate]

i put one in it no one checks it 😄

[last gate]

my push to talk button is caps lock

so i sometimes do it xd

[timid aspen]

anyone have a good WA to track procs like Coup?

[steel jolt]

basically any rogue WA would do this

[karmic harbor]

I don't see a thread

[steel jolt]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[last gate]

its old af

let me make anew one

!log

how to close old one

xd

[elfin yew]

sim are telling me to swap to all vers gems. with no blasphemite, does that sound right?

[dusty totem]

No

[elfin yew]

didnt think so, so one of each color, then right?

[steel jolt]

link sim

[elfin yew]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dQQNWynq82Qa4q6oMLZ5rp

maybe i simmed wrong

[dusty totem]

Press use max color 4+

[elfin yew]

ah

thanks!

[placid elk]

blasphemite is such a scam of a gem.

[craggy prairie]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[round grotto]

how do u reset a key when the abandon thing is not up

[elfin yew]

what miss % do you guys put for antenna?

[lucid jackal]

25-35%

[craggy prairie]

!makro

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[alpine skiff]

Heyy yall, I just practiced the rotations for the first time on a dummy and i think i got it down pretty well. Tysm to everyone who helped me get there < 3

[frigid ingot]

!log

[proven plover]

How so

[clever delta]

meanwhile gamers in my guild dont miss single one

[vale pine]

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[keen trellis]

Hello, I have a few questions.

1. no Blades, but during dance with 4p Coup. At how many targets do we use storm instead of strike? 4+ targets?
2. 10 seconds before flag we dont use finishers due to Shadow Technique, but we can still backstab (or storm when not behind target for fw), right?

[wary plover]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[hazy breach]

35% is so obscene thats like youre actively dodging them on purpose

[lucid jackal]

Not on nexus

[hazy breach]

Definitely is

My guild had 14% on average, i had 10%

[lucid jackal]

Damn tf my guild sucks then

[karmic harbor]

I thought I wanted antenna until I realised it was a gimmick trinket like the one from nexus princess

I'm good

[hazy breach]

Thats on our kill, im sure they missed more earlier in progress

[final gulch]

did they chance something with cold blood. my weakaura isnt working, its trying to use outlaw coldblood for some reason xd

[hazy breach]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[final gulch]

ah ty

[proven plover]

If you dont want to overcomplicate Research i would suggest just sending on CD and learning the pace of your cdr. General rule is for sectec 30 sec before flag is safe, and dance you should have approx 1 charge and 1:35 cd on 2nd charge when flag comes up

If you follow the dance thing you also shouldnt run out of symbols if you only use symbols with dance

[hazy breach]

But tbf p3 is practically a dummy

If you just check p1 im sure its lower

[novel quail]

im currently sitting at 31% crit, 3% haste, 64% mastery and 28% vers with lily and pace maker and my sims are constantly asking for more crit in dslice and patch. Even prioritzing vers over mastery.

follow the sim or is something up with raidbots atm?

[hazy breach]

Just dont get haste and youre good

[modern stump]

So cursed crit is a thing?)

[hollow spear]

I'm so close to posting the picture

So close

[hazy breach]

Idk if you want to, it sims identical to the other ones

[placid elk]

im tired of always simming gems and buying different ones.

[hazy breach]

But enchants and gems give so little stats anyway that it doesnt matter

[hazy breach]

Well dont

Just put vers+mastery and be done with it

[modern stump]

That why i stopped simming gems for 1 and half hour each time

[frigid ingot]

in burst, on aoe packs, should i use shuriken storm to re-apply find weakness on mobs instead of shadowstrike or not worth besides once before the cds?

[hollow spear]

Always shadowstrike

[mental meadow]

hey guys quick question is it fine to macro all these things together for opener in raid?
#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Backstab
/cast Symbols of Death
/cast Tempered Potion
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13

[hazy breach]

Fine yes, optimal no

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[hollow spear]

Macros are generally not advised, with some exceptions

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[warm marlin]

im missing infinite

maybe movement gap

had an early p3 wipe with sub 50% success rate i watched it back and they legit all spawned in the mortars/beams/tank frontal

[graceful rock]

Rock boss didn’t drop trinky this week, what do I do

[ripe flame]

same, idk if its a comfort thing but on p1 with so much shit happening and movement I barely pay attention to the antenna balls

[hazy breach]

I mean they last 20 seconds so you should be able to get some of them anyway

[warm marlin]

ye

[hazy breach]

Well yeah. like i said p1 is hard

[warm marlin]

i mean some of it is i only bother to hunt them if im in cds

[hazy breach]

The stats are definitely propped up by being in p3

[warm marlin]

i actually just dont think its worth if im not dancing soon

[hazy breach]

Since that phase is mostly hitting a dummy if youre not one of the people targeted

[warm marlin]

would rather stare at beams/spirits

[mental meadow]

i have read the guide by fuu but the optimzation for opener is only regarding not macroing cold blood with sec tec for small dps gain but says nothing against something like
#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Backstab
/cast Symbols of Death
/cast Tempered Potion
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
as far as i understand it, i wont press the macro besides the opener but pressing those 6 buttons in 1 gcd seems almost impossible to me : /

[hazy breach]

Its not during 1 gcd

[mental meadow]

so i want to delay blades and trinket for the gcd i use sec tec on?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[mental meadow]

ah i see

[west tide]

nexus king is so fun

i played sicko mode first night of prog

[warm marlin]

i really hope the nerfs dont gut him completely

[west tide]

like almost 0 beam hits all night

[vale pine]

i actually wonder

when we will see tuning passes

this tier needs to be one of the tiers with very little class tuning

[west tide]

i think he just needs p1 but ive also only seen p1 lmfao

[warm marlin]

p2/p3 arent that bad

[west tide]

but p1 is like too hard id say

[warm marlin]

titan hp will probably get nerfed a lil bit but raid buff will also do it

[west tide]

just a lil bit

next week is the oils and enchant

mo whetstone

[ripe flame]

I just wish the ghosts were more noticeable or maybe I'm just blind

[mental meadow]

not trying to be annoying but i keep breaking my hands :S 2 seperate macros would be fine? something like
#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast Tempered Potion
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Backstab
/cast Symbols of Death
and
#showtooltip Shadow Blades
/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/cast Secret Technique

[west tide]

found it easy to just like watch where they shoot out from your body

deff get a countdown timer

for yourself

[ripe flame]

started doing that last night and was noticeably easier but had a couple of times where they spawned like under the dragon and didn't notice

[lusty solar]

Black inky potion BiS for ghosts

[weak shale]

hey, sorry for the dumb question but how big brain is sub rogue? Is it very complex? Looking at like 3k io range of play, only doing m+ Currenly playing shadow priest and it's very chill, looking for a fun melee for this season.

[west tide]

once u learn the rotatiion its chillin

[prime raft]

is Ancestral Call better than blood fury/Bezerk why everyone on mag'har all the sudden

[weak shale]

outlaw is like crazy tho yeah?

[feral bluff]

yo are we sending netherprism every 1.5 mins or 3 in m+?

[hazy breach]

Idk to me p1 is the good part, the rest is very mid, p3 might have some cool visuals but its insanely dull and anticlimatic to play

Fractilus type shit where you just follow the WA

[west tide]

yeah p1 is awesome its just lile a tad too hard I think still

[left ledge]

They don’t shoot out of your body

[west tide]

like with more pulls we will get way more comfy with it obv we are just like 40

[left ledge]

They shoot out of the boss

[west tide]

i swear they do there is like an animation on me

[ripe flame]

it looks like there's white glob shooting out of your character

i think

[hazy breach]

The animation is from your character

But yeah they spawn around the boss

[left ledge]

Ah ok I didn’t know about the animation start

[west tide]

we are only 41 pulls in but having lots of fun

[tepid trellis]

think it took us like 90

to kill it

[west tide]

yall the goats

[feral bluff]

why is the sim sometimes shuriken storming between coup de grace and sometimes not

[west tide]

sometimes u have a refund so no need to build

or sometimes ur not in sblades

so u dont storm p sure without sblades

[alpine skiff]

Quick question, is it necessary that i specifially cast dance before symbols? Or can i press the two keybinds almost simultaneously? Like at the same time. Or is it crucial that dance is triggered before symbols

Cuz when i press bott at the same time, it can happeb that symbols triggers a few micro seconds earlier than dance

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter which you trigger first

[alpine skiff]

Alright thank uu

[feral bluff]

yeah but some scenarios it uses shadowstrike when it could have user storm

[west tide]

if its in sblades then i dunno!

maybe its like 1 stack away from coup

[vale pine]

90 for nexus king?

[tepid trellis]

yes

[vale pine]

nice, also congrats on the kill

[west tide]

what guild if you dont mind me askin

[ripe flame]

ignore me killing our evoker

[west tide]

90 is so good thats probably like 100 percentile dude

ill be happy at like 150

[west tide]

ASSASSIN

[warm marlin]

i would like the spirits to be made mildly easier to see

[west tide]

dude i got killed like 3 times by mages blinking

[warm marlin]

or have a better indicator rather than remember the spawn order

[ripe flame]

sin otp what can I say

[warm marlin]

the amount of times one spawns underneath some other visual effect that just blocks it

is a bit annoying

[hazy breach]

Its strange they dont have the red lines the kyveza clones have

[warm marlin]

i had one spawn inside our hpriest cheat death yesterday

[ripe flame]

specially since they use that shit on the same fight

[warm marlin]

[ripe flame]

oh that's rough af lmao

[marble comet]

casual with shuriken turnado? can someone explain me?

[spiral sierra]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[spiral sierra]

hmmmmm

sorry learning sub atm xD

[hazy breach]

Explain what

[marble comet]

what is he replacing for it?

and is it worth it?

[limpid sage]

replicating shadows prob

[hazy breach]

Nado is fine, you can play it if you want

Veiltouched most likely

[limpid sage]

oh

I thought rep shadows was the one we swapped out for nado

[neon frigate]

For mythic+ i still run cold blood is that ok? Or need thea?

[hazy breach]

No you can play either

[limpid sage]

surely veiltouched is better than rep shadows no?

or am I misreading veiltouched

[hazy breach]

5% magic damage

[limpid sage]

bruh I thought

it gave flat 5% dmg increase in shadow or something

[hazy breach]

Well shadow is magic

[limpid sage]

oh ye but I thought it took 5% of our dmg and added as shadow

I just misread it

[deft pike]

hello, quick question from a outlaw player who want to try sub, it is normal that my sim on raidbot is like 5.2m on outlaw and 4.6m on sub even with good stat ?

[lucid jackal]

Ive said it multiple times this tier, but this tier is actually balanced DPS wise

I think outlaw/balance are a bit extra shit

[deft pike]

got only lily and antenna on trink

[lucid jackal]

But like, broadly speaking, theres a lot of good specs that provide a lot of value to raid

[hazy breach]

Assa isnt great either tbh

[winged harbor]

Rogue needs a rework tbh

[lucid jackal]

Well assa has literally 20 bugs

and also just doesn't fit on the last 2 bosses

[hazy breach]

No

[lucid jackal]

Or forgeweaver

But I don't think tuning fixes sin in this context yk

[hazy breach]

Well yeah thats why im saying its weak

[austere zodiac]

vanish damage cd needs to go

[lucid jackal]

It's just like a, sub is a perfect piece to the puzzle

[hazy breach]

Like if sub was tuned like this last tier it wouldve been bad

[graceful perch]

!fuu

[lucid jackal]

Correct

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[austere zodiac]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[karmic harbor]

People played sub last tier?

[lucid jackal]

It was the best rogue spec on the first few weeks, so yeah

[karmic harbor]

I think I only played it for rik

[hazy breach]

You can play sub, then its practically gone

[austere zodiac]

Sub > assa

[lucid jackal]

It was good up until they just buffed it randomly

[austere zodiac]

sub ingame and irl

[lucid jackal]

And then it was already the bets spec in the game on mugzee pre buff

and then gally was so easy it didnt matter, neither spec did a Job and sin was tuned slightly higher

[karmic harbor]

Ig I didn't really check if sub was viable for other bosses, last raid was kinda boring for me anyways

[lucid jackal]

Sub was better for the first few weeks

It provided a lot of value on OAB as well for early prog without literal god comp of all casters

Mugzee was just a fight where you held DPS for execute phase, and also caustic spatter went thru the cages

So sin was just the literal best DPS in the game on that fight

[karmic harbor]

Oh ye I played it for some of oab but we needed more boss damage so went assa

[lucid jackal]

And then like I said gallywix was a 100 pull boss, u could literally play anything U wanted

Neither sub not assa did anything

I think I killed on sub

[karmic harbor]

Gally might've been the worst end boss I've played

[lucid jackal]

I thought it was alright, just way too easy

at least nexus king and dimensius are all timers

[karmic harbor]

Very sad that frac was so easy tho

[deft pike]

with stats like 19k vers 17k mastery and 9k crit its ok to swap on mm raid ?
and on st and on mm+ do i need to stack more mastery or vers ?

[marble comet]

this simms a bit higher then recommended build in d slice

[lucid jackal]

Who cares about stats

[marble comet]

maybe i will try it

[hazy breach]

As long as you dont stack haste its fine

[lucid jackal]

^

[deft pike]

got 2.7k haste

can get less but its something

[marble comet]

when to pop shirkenh turnado best?

[sacred gull]

do i need to track flawless form ? or I just follow recommended rotation and it will be fine ?

[lilac stag]

As soon as you spec out of it

[hazy breach]

Generally no

Theres some small out of cd minmax stuff but generally its kinda irrelevant, if you play like you should it should be up when you want it to be up

[mighty citrus]

is there currently any exception, where we would not send sectec as first finisher in a dance?

[sacred gull]

I felt like sometimes my coup de grace is up outside of a burst/SD window and was wondering if it was proking on all targets in multi

[hazy breach]

Well as long as you didnt sit afk for a while its going to be up

[west tide]

guys who else thinks modern wow end bosses should be 150 pullers max

[hazy breach]

As its up for 12s after you proc your coup stack

[west tide]

its 2025 we got other shit to play guys

[hazy breach]

Generally outside of blades on cd (often with your regular dance)

If you do it during blades youre likely to waste lots of cp through shadowcraft and you wont get your coups from shadowstriking

Or to quickly setup ruptures before a cd set

[sacred gull]

ok thanks, there are so many interactions between talents and spells, I am a bit lost for the moment 😂 Trying to stick to the recommended rotation but I feel like I am still missing some details to understand fully

[karmic harbor]

Same

But I've literally only read the rotation section of the wowhead guide

Maybe I should read all of it and peep icy veins too

[sacred gull]

do some training on dummy as well, it will make more sense when reading later again

[frail ledge]

im new to sub and ill struggle in the downtimes... what are the “goals” between the CDs? Am I just using shadow dance and sectec on CD still until I hold shadow dance for two stacks before CDs again? Should I be pooling energy at all?

[hazy breach]

You dont need 2 charges when flag is up, 1½ is safe enough

Since youll get CDR from the first dance during blades

But yes the goal is to dance as much as possible without breaking that 1½ stacks for flag+blades

[last gate]

haste is op you get lower GCD so you can burst more 😄

trust me bro

[hazy breach]

You do not get lower gcd

[last gate]

why not

[hazy breach]

As an energy spec you have 1 second gcd flat, unaffected by haste

[last gate]

lol didnt know that

then play outlaw

then you have lower gcd

[lime bear]

How big is the performance difference between Elemental Focusing Lens and Darkmoon Sigil: Ascension?

[solemn hedge]

what stats do i want on my crafted neck for both sub and assa? just crit and mastery?

[hazy breach]

Not haste

[last gate]

sim

[hazy breach]

Practically irrelevant

[lime bear]

ok

[last gate]

vers mastery

[dense mountain]

yo @hazy breach , when your playing first dance, when does your 2nd sectech usually come up during opener? Im finding it really awkward alot of pulls that i end up wanting to cast it as my first dance is ending and it feels weird.

[hazy breach]

Use it asap

[last gate]

since the bis neck from big momma also give vers mastery and its bis for both assa and sub

i have no idea what to craft

[dense mountain]

if it happens to cast outside of dance but i get dance up for the extra hits is that greif ?

[hazy breach]

There shouldnt be a gcd outside of dance

But yes sectechs damage is based on your buffs when it does damage, not when it is casted

[karmic harbor]

Why are you playing assa

M+?

[last gate]

raid M+

i just started learning sub

so im basicly full bis assa

[karmic harbor]

In raid I think last 2 and forgeweaver you play sub anyways

[last gate]

only araz and soulbinder

araz is like wall

for assa

xd

[karmic harbor]

We're on soul hunters rn and I'm probably never playing assa in raid again

[last gate]

play M+ build on soul hunters

its EZ mode

[karmic harbor]

The top 20 on soul hunters is all outlaw and sub

[last gate]

(default bleed build with CT)

[last gate]

hmmm

tbh if you arent in a Hall of fame guild

nobody cares what you play cause your dps will be fine anyway

xd

[karmic harbor]

That's true

[final violet]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[solemn hedge]

wasnt there a spark this week?

[topaz venture]

yea

its 3rd craft week

why?

[solemn hedge]

ah i just missed the spark quest lol

[west ridge]

i got a question guys for trinkets i got araz today and have nether prism but how do i send them ?

first shadow blades together and then at 3:00 min again or do i desync them after araz comes off cd ?
i guess always together is the call right ?

[dense mountain]

forge > prism 9 > forge > prism 18

[livid rapids]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[alpine skiff]

How crucial is stealth->shadowstrike for the opener? In case i cant go stealth, cuz vanish is on cd and im in combat, is it ok if i just start w flaggelation? Or does the opener have another start if i cant go stealth?

[hazy breach]

You just need combo points

[west ridge]

so i do desync them okok so i need to find another key bind

[lucid jackal]

It's unplayable on mythic

[alpine skiff]

Oh for rupture?

[lucid jackal]

Too much target swapping

[cunning notch]

I love when keys are made artificially harder when people dont press that silly button that interrupts

[lucid jackal]

And too much maintanence and one bad position is cheat death proc

Not worth it

[left ledge]

I just played normal raid build for soul but instead of PE I ran RS and finality

[warm marlin]

ye thats the way

[dense mountain]

you cant send them together there is a 20 second lockout for on use trinkets so yeah

[warm marlin]

assa way harder to play on that fight while squishier and less output

[marble comet]

why so toxic

[lilac stag]

It’s a terrible fning talent

[balmy condor]

how's subs ST dmg in m+ compared to sin?

[lilac stag]

considerably better unless you’re pulling adds in for assa

[willow pawn]

Not even comparable

Sin does MW ST in m+

[balmy bear]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[last gate]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[vale pine]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[stoic token]

can someone tell me if this is correct. Every symbols button press will use dance (if dance if off cd) but not every dance uses symbols(if you already have symbols active). Can i bind dance to symbols and then have a dance by itself as well? The idea being 1 less off gcd press the majority of time i dance

[opal birch]

Coldblood stopped showing up in my weakauras, did they change the spell ID or something?

[simple merlin]

The method guide has some really nice steps on keybinds and macros

[tranquil mural]

Does dungeon slice sim work for sub?

[forest moss]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[snow girder]

other way around. Every SD button press is with symbols. but you want to be able to press SOD on its own

[forest moss]

do we macro pot into anything?

[opal birch]

is this a thing? god damnnit

[stoic token]

if dance and symbols are both off cd when would you ever hit symbols and not dance

you dont do the bind the other way because you will still have symbols up and you dont want to press it again when you dance

[opal birch]

only fix is to level a new rogue?

[signal glacier]

what do u guys think 691 netherprism or 704 lily for m+

[lilac stag]

Log out and log back in. There’s a WA for it.

[tidal marsh]

https://wago.io/XfVX1CeQC

You can get this to remind you

[snow girder]

you have 3 charges of sod

[lilac stag]

!cbug

[opal birch]

thank you

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[snow girder]

and 2 of SD

you press SOD alone during your cd window

[opal birch]

first time maining rogue and I gotta say, mega janitor level class we got here.

[tidal marsh]

[lilac stag]

You ain’t even scratched the surface

[stoic token]

thistle tea fucks this logic up so it wont work nvm

[simple merlin]

Lots of guides say that tea + SD is an okay macro

[stoic token]

yea that is what i use

[lilac stag]

You literally use tea with dance in macro

absolutely forget about it.

[stoic token]

yea but it fucks up my idea for binding dance to shadowblades

[lilac stag]

you don’t use macros as sub

Just get used to it

[stoic token]

cause you dont want thistle tea in that macro

[lilac stag]

And life gets easier

[opal birch]

its true, just find more keys no problem

and make sure to have bug fixing weak auras obv

[lilac stag]

we don’t have that many binds

[stoic token]

if it wasnt for thistle tea there would be no downside to binding dance to symbols

[snow girder]

can you explain that actually? i dont know the underlying reason

[swift tinsel]

except for when you don't press them at the same time

[stoic token]

name me a time when you press symbols that you wouldnt also press dance if it was off cd

[swift tinsel]

your opener

with the second dance

[snow girder]

you press SOD alone alot

[lilac stag]

I just let them figure it out now and wonder why their dps is low

[swift tinsel]

then they come back and ask

[lilac stag]

if the bot commands aren’t enough me flappin my gums ain’t gonna do it

[snow girder]

Symbols needs to be refreshed during your Shadow dance windows

[swift tinsel]

fair and true

[swift tinsel]

less about refreshing, its about supercharging sectech

[snow girder]

yeah it does both

i get what you mean

[lilac stag]

You’re just trying to juice Sectech

Everything else is along for the ride

[last frigate]

Does sod duration extend if you use before its over?

Or is it wasted

[marble comet]

i tried it 2 keys and it feel good

but it was big aoe dungeons

[dry zodiac]

30% will extend. So you can refresh at 3s remaining without losing any. But you need to make sure sectech will be ready for supercharger so you don’t always want to do it 3s early

[lilac stag]

You’re only using it for CDR and to spread ruptures. I’m not sure how that feels good, it doesn’t for me at least.

[last frigate]

Thanks!

Have been delaying tectec until it ends, so thats a nice lil dps increase

[marble comet]

cant i press it in dance without blade to just spam evisc?

[lilac stag]

No

You only press strike in dance

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

• Always cast Coup de Grace when it is ready, regardless of target count.
• Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
• At ALL target counts use Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm.

[lilac stag]

Which is why you don’t talent that pos talent

[marble comet]

ok

[lilac stag]

please delete it in midnight

[karmic harbor]

No

[last frigate]

I love tornado ngl

Reminds me of the zul days

[lilac stag]

it’s sounds really cool. It’s just counter intuitive to how the spec plays.

[karmic harbor]

Sometimes you press dance without symbols (opener for example)

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

[shut ridge]

I’ll never forgive myself for not playing for Zul

I missed peak—it’s unequivocally over

[karmic harbor]

Rogue isn't balanced unless you bring 4 of them

[snow girder]

yeah i didnt word that properly mb

[karmic harbor]

They both need their own keybinds

Ye

[last frigate]

Rogue was the only class i didnt have maxed at the time, made one specially, it's still called rogfazul lol

Rl had a strong accent and would say we need a rawg fa' zul

[upper narwhal]

Priory 13, loving Sub in keys this season

[vale pine]

shadow blades

[karmic harbor]

Crazy, I don't think I've beat a dk on a key above a 12 yet

[lilac stag]

More BP

[upper narwhal]

I didn't actually BP much that key, was sweating to kill paladins cuz the tank was psycho pulling

[lilac stag]

Could be killing both of them faster than just one faster.

[upper narwhal]

yeah but we can live one or two sending out the aoe, not three

[karmic harbor]

They gotta remove this button and make evis stronger

[lilac stag]

send you blades into one then

[upper narwhal]

yeah that's pretty much what I was doing

[lilac stag]

The small shift into “priority” really ain’t worth it.

FW is up naturally high and BP spanks all the paladins and priests. You’re still priority with Sectech and coup

most pugs still have CDs there as they got lazy at the end of the last pull

[snow girder]

is it still possible to fit 3 sec techs in a flag window? my sim shows the buff falling off right before the 3rd one

[steel zinc]

yes

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[steel zinc]

if you have a coup early on in your first dance you can get the 3rd sectech into your flag window

[karmic harbor]

How early are you meant to pop sod

If I have a 10s pull timer is that ok

[steel zinc]

thats also if you get your 2nd sectech in the first dance. So ~2 sec before it reaches

[steel zinc]

when you get rezzed

[karmic harbor]

Ic

[steel zinc]

its just to have "empowered" cp

[upper narwhal]

supercharger lasts forever so just send a sod on rez yeah

[snow girder]

wait... did something change recently? i swear you didnt have to do any weird prepull stuff when trickster sub became a thing

[steel zinc]

you do since beta

just its more prevelant now with the tier

[dim trail]

!macros

[snow girder]

i guess no one was talking about it back then

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[upper narwhal]

i remember people talking about it during the 1st tier of expansion

[snow girder]

was it at all possible without pre pull stuff?

i did it during raid in df s3 without knowing about the pre pull stuff

[steel zinc]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=441274/disorienting-strikes
Since beta this has an infinite duration and persist through death.

[snow girder]

ahhhh

[dim trail]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[snow girder]

i guess you dont really have to try to do that if youre wiping

lul

[upper narwhal]

this is the one prepull thing i've not been doing

[dim trail]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[steel zinc]

i actually do this during prog

not that hard.

RL calls wipe you just send a symbols or w/e and do a sectech and die

9/10 times its np

[snow girder]

yeah, I do remember noticing that some openers i would just not hit it during flag without fucking up

i was confused but just assumed i messed up

[barren briar]

Yoyo, currently learning sub for king sallad and dimmy prog, is it possible to make a macro to prevent double pressing symbols of death? In practice I find myself sometimes using 2 stacks of it so was thinking if there was a macro that essentially would disable the button for a sec or something after using a stack

[dry zodiac]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[snow girder]

i will say, that tooltip for disorienting strikes is worded poorly. the way it reads leads me to believe the cdr is permanent

[steel zinc]

I mean yeah just super weird it persist through death

you lit can die and you have it stored to infinity

[olive jacinth]

New to sub, why should I not shadow strike in between coups?

[barren briar]

Tyvm

[lucid jackal]

It's specifically during blades

And 4 or more targets

Cuz it procs escalating blade, which can't stack in between coups

[olive jacinth]

Ah I see the hero talent

[tulip folio]

do we even use

black powder

?

[olive jacinth]

In AoE outside of dance

[rustic raven]

Depending on your stacks you could do it on 2 or 3

[tulip folio]

in dance always evi

right ?

[leaden prairie]

bro

shadowcraft coup cp refund bug

is solo killing all my enjoyement

of this spec

its actually so bad

can you guys complain about it a bit more

[rustic raven]

Wut bug

👀

[leaden prairie]

the cp refund from shadowcraft

being like 1s delayed

with coup

[rustic raven]

Not a bug

[leaden prairie]

cause coup is a shit spell

?

[rustic raven]

Each hit is individual

If the last hit procs it

Its delayed

Just stop spamming like an outlaw player

It is frustrating tho u are right

[leaden prairie]

?

stop trolling

[rustic raven]

Not even trolling though. Each hit can individually proc it. So if the last hit procs it that’s why it’s delayed

It’s not a bug at all

And its pretty easy to play around if you track your stacks and stop spamming your buttons

[void raven]

!tea

[wicked jolt]

Thistle tea use:
It is recommended to macro Thistle Tea with Shadow Dance like this:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```

[tepid trellis]

its a by product of the way coup is coded, its just a blanket spell for 3x eviscerates

so its not "technically" a bug

[warm marlin]

Each hit probably shouldn’t be able to refund

[rustic raven]

^^^ yes

[ripe flame]

3 evis in a trenchcoat

[tepid trellis]

fwiw they are aware of it

being insanely annoying

[leaden prairie]

i know lol, you guys think im clueless or what

[rustic raven]

Uh. Ya. Cuz ur in here calling it a bug

[tepid trellis]

so its likely getting fixed, in 0.5 patch

is what id guess

[warm marlin]

I sure hope so

[rustic raven]

Yeah. 12.2.5

[snow girder]

what kind of response is that to people just answering your questions

[leaden prairie]

you are so stupid bro

it doesnt matter that coup is coded this way so its not a "bug"

[karmic harbor]

Bro this guy thinks coup refund being delayed isn't good game design and is a "bug"

[leaden prairie]

its not something that is intended

so its a bug

stop acting stupid

[snow girder]

what a surprise that he started insulting people

[leaden prairie]

"its not a bug at all"

actually bro

not a bug

[rustic raven]

Uh. Yes it does actually. The code is functioning exactly as intended

[leaden prairie]

ye bro

[plush roost]

This whole argument bugs me

Code n shit

Insect element my ass

Buttercry me a rivee

[rustic raven]

All they need to do is just make coup a giga evisc

[plush roost]

Cantepillar

[leaden prairie]

like basically every bug in the game my guy

half the bugs are just interactions that werent predicted

[snow girder]

just make it a 25 cp evis 🙂

[leaden prairie]

and that end up being non intended

[plush roost]

Yo they fixed coup btw

[fallow nimbus]

Imagine their fix is just making it a 3x bigger eviscerate

[leaden prairie]

litteraly a bug

[plush roost]

Its called spex deathstalker

Heheheheh

[tender granite]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[rustic raven]

Make it a channel like killing spree

[snow girder]

eww

[rustic raven]

[plush roost]

Oh what if it portaled you around the target uncontrollably and variably based on cp

[snow girder]

dude

[plush roost]

Original idea!!!

[rustic raven]

Holy

He’s cooking!

[snow girder]

its so insane to me that KS lasted that long

in that state

[plush roost]

Zac made it work

[snow girder]

when DH has death sweep

[rustic raven]

It was a dead talent for pretty much all of its life tbf

Well. From MoP onwards i should say

[snow girder]

i think they kept it undertuned cause no one liked it

[rustic raven]

I think there was a build in slands season 1 that liked it

MA KS?

Think that lasted for like 10 whole minutes

[snow girder]

yeah sometimes it was like decent but it was never the clear choice

[ripe flame]

Bring back cannon barrage

[rustic raven]

REAL

[snow girder]

but i always said that outlaw needed a fun button that wasnt just standard finishers

[leaden prairie]

insane to me that it still is lasting

[olive jacinth]

I just simed Ascendance + Writhing and it is higher than ele focus lense. Can this be right? Or is there some weird sim interaction?

[leaden prairie]

reworked from the worse ability in the game to the worse ability in the game

decent work

[snow girder]

i actually havent played it since the change so idk

[rustic raven]

If you hate it so much why do you main the spec bro. Play sumn else

[leaden prairie]

?

i said i didnt like the spell

[snow girder]

the change seems way better from reading it

[rustic raven]

It looks cooler thats for sure

[snow girder]

anything that doesnt fuck your camera is an upgrade

[rustic raven]

Ppl just dont like the channel for some reason

[olive jacinth]

I loved KS back in WoD with redbuff in pvp ❤️

[snow girder]

the channel is fine imo

ive played monk before

same shit

[astral axle]

ppl miss that og ks did prio to target and this just does weird aoe

[lucid jackal]

Technically true but that's too annoying and too niche to pay attention to

[rustic raven]

Ur right. I just send storm and pray i have enough stacks

[lucid jackal]

True

[rustic raven]

And if i dont i wipe us so we pull again

[snow girder]

we go againe

[rustic raven]

Shit sorry missed my salhadaar spirit oopsie 😇

[buoyant birch]

hello bois, what % of mastery etc are we going for? any caps?

[rustic raven]

Sim yoself

[cedar willow]

What changed?

[lucid jackal]

"fuck it was like, under the dragon I couldn't even see it my bad"

[olive jacinth]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[rustic raven]

“That beam was invisible bro swear to god”

[plush roost]

I was shitposting lmao i said just play ds

[warm marlin]

[lucid jackal]

I catch that one

Just saying

[left ledge]

These people say use inky black to see spirit better

[olive remnant]

during small cds, when i'm at 5 cp do i keep building or do i spent? It feels awkward to st.

[left ledge]

But I’m on oled

Inky black makes the beans actually invisible

Beams*

[warm marlin]

i will next time now that my raid frames are way in the corner

lesson learned

[left ledge]

Idk how your ghost even spawn there with where boss is at

[rustic raven]

I use stinky bright because i like a challenge personally

[left ledge]

Is that a thing

[rustic raven]

Yes LOL

[tulip folio]

whats optimal m+ talants for sub rn

[limber folio]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[limber folio]

prolly the ones on wowhead :d

[karmic harbor]

You can check raider.io and see what people play in keys

[rustic raven]

Click on the dropdown menu and select “starter build”

Then go to spellbook and move “one-button assistant” to your bar

And you’re good to go

[left ledge]

I need grab me a life supply of stinky bright and floor pov everything

[rustic raven]

https://tenor.com/view/flashbang-flash-cat-betterttv-gif-10690574645280585754

[honest saddle]

what if you run so little haste as assassination that the gcd penalty from the one button rotation doesnt impact you and you instead run high mastery crit?

THEN ITS JUST PERFECT ROTATION EVERYTIME

[warm marlin]

boss took a little trip shortly before the screenshot, he was much closer to the edge previously

[tulip folio]

is this real chat ?

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tulip folio]

do we need to craft that neck for bis ?

[vale pine]

we don't need to

many of the embellishments sim close

and you likely won't get bis bis

[tulip folio]

so what crafteds do we need this season

none ?

[honest saddle]

you're gonna have the extra crests, might as well craft them

eventually

its neck and bracers

[shrewd sierra]

anyone have a weakaura for flawless form stacks and coup de grace without the whole energy bars and cds in middle of screen?

[tulip folio]

i could go for them rn since its upgrade for me

[honest saddle]

might as well