subtlety

[slate marlin]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[little shoal]

I was still getting the 2 sectechs in Sblade window, but sometimes it would be super close.

[slate marlin]

Hmm not what i was looking for

[tribal blade]

yeah it's incredibly awkward, but can happen 😉

[slate marlin]

but theres one that explains why u dont macro

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 30 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[tribal blade]

blades is 16 seconds and dance is 8

so to fit both dances into blades you need to go back to back

[slate marlin]

i give up

[sterile iris]

If I havent had any luck with getting a myth track wep in vault, would it be worth crafting two weps?

[slate marlin]

NO

[keen dome]

Nah

[slate steeple]

Can someone help out

[slate marlin]

Off hand weapon is meaningless

[tribal blade]

although you do slightly delay blades into the first dance

[keen dome]

It's the lowest impact slot we have.

[sterile iris]

Oh really I never knew that

[slate marlin]

worst slot

worst slot

[lilac stag]

Oddly enough it wasn’t far behind for me vs ring or bracer craft.

[tribal blade]

yeah OH is useless for dps

[keen dome]

Interesting

[slate marlin]

by eco you mesn lilly?

If its lilly, you dont run it with prism

[lilac stag]

Got loomy dagger this week so mute but I was a little surprised.

[slate marlin]

either prism+ forge or prism+passive

[keen dome]

Ye, I'm curious now. Gonna sim myself.

[hollow spear]

Sometimes I am waking up at night after having vivid dreams about making pvp trinket + prism happen

[lilac stag]

Run the 3 missives as well

[slate marlin]

I have wet dreams of finding a tech to always have 18 stacks every 90 seconds

[hollow spear]

You're making it sound like my dream is an impossibility 🙁

[sterile iris]

So Im going to craft Wrist (Free hero crest), Wep with guilded. Should I craft a neck as per wowhead?

[hollow spear]

Sim it

Wowhead doesn't know what gear you have

[sterile iris]

Will do

[slate marlin]

I crafed a crit vers ring, per robot suggestion

[lilac stag]

Neck, ring wrist are all typical. Just depends what you have

shoulders are decent too

if you can’t get the looms

[hollow spear]

Yeah, shoulders would be the next best piece for me

[sterile iris]

Is that droptimizer optinon on raidbots yeah?

Then just choose crafted gear

[hollow spear]

You can also top gear it

If you want to slot the embellishments

[lilac stag]

You have to add the named pieces in top gear

but that will give you best over combos

[sterile iris]

How could I top gear if I dont have the item? (sorry im not very glued with sims)

[lilac stag]

There’s an add item option at the top

[keen dome]

Nah I know it'll want crit/mast or crit/versa regardless

My sim is on a crit rampage

[sterile iris]

Oh shit yeah, didnt even notice!

[lavish lion]

Is the conquest pvp trinket that gives main stat any good if I up it to max ? Have season 2 trinkets atm

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's very good.

[tribal blade]

i have 30% crit atm

[lavish lion]

Nice thanks! Gonna go buy it right away

[tribal blade]

the plexus ring does all the heavy lifting with crit

[slate marlin]

I have 30% crit too

With crafted ring

[tribal blade]

i decided to not do a new craft this week and just upgraded my bracers to 720

since bracers is a done deal slot

[slate marlin]

I left bracers at 704

I cba

awful slot antway

[tribal blade]

i got the priory ring in vault this week and am hoping to get the myth track plexus ring on a reclear soon

and 710 hero neck atm

[slate marlin]

I got a myth dagger 🙁

Will upgrade since nothing else to do

[tribal blade]

that's good if you don't have a myth track MH yet!

[limpid sage]

what do you sim for currently? I just got to 4.65m but I know people are simming in the 5 mil range already

[slate marlin]

got crafted one

[tribal blade]

oh not sure haha

lemme see

[limpid sage]

still need to change from normal tier shoulders and get something else than jastors D:

[fossil forge]

Yo gang i need sum assistance

[slate marlin]

So its +3 ilvl mh, +19 ilvl oh

[fossil forge]

Crafted neck is 0,4% and crafted ring is 0,8% upg but a bis ring drops from first boss

Wats the move here

[tribal blade]

similar on a 2 day old sim

but that sim is missing some upgrades

so a bit more now

[little shoal]

Holy hell, thanks for showing me the error of my ways. It even feels smoother hitting the dummy without the macro.

[lilac stag]

I’m kinda same boat. Sitting on heroic freebie + craft. I’ve got crit/haste bracers I could replace but the socket on them says keep

[limpid sage]

ya okay so I'm not completely behind

[slate marlin]

only bis things are trinkets, the rest are only bis if robot tells you its an upgrade

[tribal blade]

oh shit socket nice

[lilac stag]

I got mythic tier helm with socket in vault

[slate marlin]

HUGE

[lilac stag]

so eventually I think it’s belt craft for 11.2.5

[fossil forge]

Well i have antenna prism and araz

[lilac stag]

but idk

[slate marlin]

so u have all 3 trinkets, craft what robot tells you then

[lilac stag]

and never post in here again

[slate marlin]

agreed

[fossil forge]

The robot tells me to craft the ring but If i craft the neck and equip the ring its same %

[slate marlin]

Dont overthink what gear you will get in 2 weeks. maybe ring doesnt drop, maybe they give it to a havoc dh

[lilac stag]

Lfr forge to mythic forge is 100k uppy in ST sim

[slate marlin]

Maybe u get bog momma neck in vault

whats the sim diff between crafted ring and the boss ring anyway?

[balmy condor]

is there a reason why the wowhead m+ spec differs from what everyone seems to be playing?

[lilac stag]

We’ve got some big simmers for the plexus ring

[keen dome]

@lilac stag Just the dagger is about a 0.6% for me.

Ring beats it out

[limpid sage]

is lfr forge really simming better than hc alternatives for you? or just using it cuz preference

[lilac stag]

Ring was .7 dagger was .6 when i did mine

[slate marlin]

its preference mostly

Tea is a bit better in aoe, cb is a but better st

i dont think rotten is thst big anymore considering the amount of crit we have access to atm

[topaz venture]

does right side of tree change?

or is it static

[lilac stag]

not getting out of bed for less than .5

heroic pacemaker

fwiw

[slate marlin]

i got it myth track 1st vault

[lilac stag]

i took normal tier over the mythic pace

4pc too huge week 1-2

[keen dome]

Ring is about 1.1% for me

But only the crit / mast one

[slate marlin]

Well if u were going to myth prog its a good call

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/single-ladies-put-a-ring-on-it-dance-beyonce-gif-17770088660510214245

[slate marlin]

I had to do lfr for tier hands

thankfully i won it, with a solid 18

[fossil forge]

Started gaming finality instead of rotten

Feels nice

[slate marlin]

i do inev+1 finality

[lilac stag]

i went from 1 heroic, 3 champ/vet tier to 3 mythic and 1 heroic all while avoiding shoulders

[slate marlin]

allows me to swap pv into dd

[slate marlin]

lucky mf, i still have shoulders

[keen dome]

I just want pacemaker / antenna

Sigil is so BAD

[lilac stag]

missing first week of key pushing sucked

[lilac stag]

has prism?

[slate marlin]

1st week is importsnt af

[fossil forge]

almost all armor slots mythic but no trinkets or daggers

[keen dome]

ye

[fossil forge]

[keen dome]

The infinite comedy of Prism doing less than Sigil in everything

[slate marlin]

u risk having to play with the peopke unable to time a 7

[lilac stag]

it's fine then. not amazing, but gives you hope

[lilac stag]

kek

[slate marlin]

u dont tske prism for the psssive dmg

[keen dome]

AND YET

[lilac stag]

nah we just laugh about it

[fossil forge]

Its a lil bonus

[keen dome]

it does more than the trinket designed to do passive damage lmao

[fossil forge]

Isnt sigil bugged still

[keen dome]

Sometimes considerably more

[slate marlin]

wow

is it that bad of a trinket

[keen dome]

I need to find the SS I have of it where it did like, 2% less than Prism on passive damage

[marble sail]

it procs alot as outlaw, i think its just the slow nature of sub making it very very bad

[keen dome]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/468124640091439105/1410915594991173676/image.png?ex=68baaa0b&is=68b9588b&hm=ae85dad2d42024c62025facc23ae97f34d89d8f123ae3599e66d0debb965ac55&

[marble sail]

i have it on my feral and it sucks there too

[keen dome]

Here is Prism doing the same damage as my cloak

From the same run: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/468124640091439105/1410915782472368159/image.png?ex=68baaa38&is=68b958b8&hm=a9502044aa9c548646a81e45069b442d652323225b95573d135de95dc3f7d355&

[cold zodiac]

is worth to craft the second dagger this week ?

[topaz venture]

prob not

offhand is minor

droptimiser urself

[slate marlin]

ye i guess, idk why but i recall it being good for havoc

[topaz venture]

assuming u dont have ring / bracer / neck at myth track

[haughty mural]

Other way around ?

[void ocean]

crafting rings feels so wrong

[marble sail]

probably same reason, they have alot of things counting as spells when they are kinda passive

[void ocean]

so many good rings

[marble sail]

thats why thier apm is so high

[slate marlin]

idk i have never played hsvoc

was a vengeance main

until i realized im dogshit as a tank

[marble sail]

based

[slate marlin]

Have improved a lot as a player tho

[void ocean]

never played clases that feel the same as rogue

[slate marlin]

same

[rose sonnet]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[slate marlin]

I love rogue

[keen dome]

yes

I was busy laughing at this meme: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/468124640091439105/1413136206702710864/tiqhxlvod4nf1.png?ex=68bad526&is=68b983a6&hm=abf09037a3e73ab6ffbd798980944b7991936d09f32ad9a8d705bde7e88c30b9&

very accurate meme

[slate marlin]

i will not take another expansion whit this hero talents tho

i refuse it

[haughty mural]

[void ocean]

i died on hc dimensius like an idiot in the last phase during hidinh, it appears I walked out under the fckin star

[slate marlin]

if we dont get different ht, im rerolling

idk what to

maybe enh

If they improve aff it will be for sure my main tyo

[lilac stag]

Enjoy needed WAs and macros to make a picking up totems work

and the 80 button binds

[haughty mural]

Does cloak proc rate scale of haste btw?

[slate marlin]

Already played a lot of enh, i dont mind it

it was so fun is shadowlands s3/4

[lilac stag]

it’s fine as a fuck around alt

Totemic sucks donkey dick

[onyx dawn]

The guide says to send finisher on 6cp +

Fuu's WA pack, on 5/6 cp shows a different colour to 1-4cp & 7cp

I keep getting instances where Im in dance window and I land on 5 cp, but using a global on builder instead of spender seems wrong, as ill waste the 8 gcds inside dance?

[lilac stag]

It’s actually worse than DS sub imo

[slate marlin]

the clases i enjoy are fury warr (lmfao no m+ if i reroll to it), enh, rogue (all specs) and aff

[lilac stag]

You finish at 6+

[slate marlin]

Aff is the love of my life

[onyx dawn]

landing on 5 is just shit rng then?

[lilac stag]

no it just means press strike/stab

[slate marlin]

but i despise mr, i know why its there, but still...

if they get meaningfull qol changes im going aff

[lilac stag]

this aint Assa land

[marble comet]

hey i did 2/8 mythic yesterday and my loggs where omega bad... can someone really help me without toxicity ? 😄

[void ocean]

is it strange we havent seen any class tunings yet

except for ret crying

[lilac stag]

watch them let it ride until 11.2.5

[karmic harbor]

I'll help but you have to let me be toxic

[marble comet]

ok

[karmic harbor]

Can type !log and someone can have a look

[void ocean]

mild toxicity best i can offer

[slate lantern]

if your logs were truly omega bad then maybe some toxicity will fix you

[marble comet]

ok give me toxicityx

[slate marlin]

same, i thought we would get some this week

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/captain-planet-planet-captain-planet-and-the-planeteers-you-gif-1427223306998292645

[slate marlin]

I like them not rushing huge nerfs/buffs early tho

[void ocean]

turn on 1 button rotation

[keen dome]

They're gonna be busy playing Silksong

[slate marlin]

Which is obviously bc fury isnt op

[void ocean]

oh shit, u didnt post logs yet

[marble comet]

brotha i have honor

[karmic harbor]

!log

[marble comet]

!log

[deep ferry]

does anyone have TotT missing weakaura? cant find any tbh

[cold zodiac]

if i upgrade champion gear to 704, the hero one will be free to upgrade to 704 ?

[slate marlin]

yes

[lilac stag]

LE has if it’s active. Not if it’s missing.

[slate marlin]

if its weapon/ring/trinket u need 2 of them at that ilvl for free upgrade

[void ocean]

so we r getting turbo boost this season too, do u guys think it will again come with unlocked crests and maybe dinars?

[lilac stag]

was fun detected last time?

let that answer it for you

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's coming with dinars.

They've already confirmed dinars. I assume crests will uncap with it too

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/bold-strategy-dodgeball-cotton-strategy-tactics-gif-4957668

[keen dome]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/puzzling-cartel-chips-dinars-return-in-patch-11-2-5-season-3-turbo-boost-details-378167

[lilac stag]

the uncapped asummption ;p idk most guildies arent converting lower crests this go around

[keen dome]

oh, fair

Ye

Something new that's happening, whic is VERY cool imo, is:

[lilac stag]

i think uncapped = how long they have to stretch this shit out for

[keen dome]

Infinitely farmable catalyst charges

[runic trail]

I didn't last season and it paid off massively. Log in, convert over 400 crests to gilded instantly

[keen dome]

ye that's waht i'm doing this season

I've learned me lesson

I've also been way, way more efficient with crests in general

[kind river]

from looking at lorrgs I realized I'm not really using vanish, but there isn't a great deal of consistency in how these people are using it either

what is the best use case for it?

[lilac stag]

I did this unintentionally. Some how I never knew the gilded was an eventual option so never converted anything. I think I had 600 gilded to start the boost.

[kind river]

I'm feeling very comfortable on sub right now except I have excluded vanish completely

so I just need to work that last piece in

[fossil forge]

Use it as a builder when low on cp no

[lilac stag]

For CDR or use it before flag to rupture

it’s really nothing crazy to worry about.

Use it to teleport

[tribal blade]

it's low power enough where you can use it as a defensive if you want

[strange heath]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[tribal blade]

i like to use vanish for cdr

in raid

in keys i only use vanish for defensiveness or dropping combat/casts

[runic trail]

Same. I just did world content and never touched the crests and I upgraded all my things day 1 without touching m+

Just walking into raid on Wednesday 7 ilvls higher than anyone else

[kind river]

I got punished so hard last season for converting crests

[tribal blade]

i forgot what it's like having vanish to be able to drop casts, it's saved my life so many times in HoA

[void ocean]

i use vanish sometimes if i have to hit 2nd coup outside the dance

[kind river]

I will never again touch them

until turbo boost

[tribal blade]

yeah i realized you could do this earlier

i've done it once, i need to do it more

[void ocean]

im somewhat of a theorycrafter myself... 😄

[kind river]

I think that explains the random outside cds vanishes I'm seeing, because there is a degree of consistency to which people are using it between dances, or at least some people when I check forgeweaver lorrgs (vanish usage seems to vary greatly compared to any other cd)

probably using it as the in-between for coup

[mild stratus]

hello, i am new to subtlety, there is any cap of crit? or any % that i should have?

[marble sail]

follow what raidbots tells u

[mild stratus]

ok thx, and what should I sim, dungeon slive or patchwerk 5 targets?

[marble sail]

for what cenario

[slate marlin]

for aoe dslice

[mild stratus]

for dungeons yep, but i heard that dungeon slice simulations are not very reliable

[lilac stag]

theyre reliable for gearing choices for sub/assa/outlaw

[mild stratus]

Ok thanks, and I guess i should sim Stat weights?

[hazy breach]

Nah

Just sim your items in topgear

But generally as long as you dont get haste its fine

[kind river]

yeah weights are fake and will betray you after like 1 big item upgrade, they are moving goalposts that the sim will just calculate for you so no need to use them

[slate marlin]

stats weight is bad

it even states thst in the stat weight portion of raidbots

[kind river]

fortunately my sim has me using the 1800 crit crystal in my cloak since my crit got low so now I don't even have to change crystal between sub and assa

[void ocean]

stat weights is like trying to calculate electrons position and speed at the same time 😄

[kind river]

just swapping one ring

[mild stratus]

Ok thanks!! ❤️

[fossil forge]

explain in wow terms

[slate marlin]

Its like inviting a fury warrior to a magic comp whith the intention of it doing massive uncapped aoe

[fossil forge]

https://tenor.com/view/kek-kekwait-gif-24161687

[void ocean]

bottom line: dont try it 😄

[runic hull]

hello guys what 3rd craft should sub get? considering I have main hand and wrists crafted?

[void ocean]

i made belt

cause i needed second embelishment and got a good hc neck

and my hc rings r bis too

[runic hull]

already have both embel, just would like to know if there is a general overall "better" piece for sub to craft

[vale pine]

i am not sure what you ask

embellishments are kinda weak this xpac

so they more or less act like fillers, you fill the slots you either have bad item level at or with lower stat budget

[runic hull]

since we can craft a 3 piece of gear this week, such as we did with the main hand and wrist, what piece should I m,ake without embel? I already have both embellishments

[vale pine]

a mh weapon is typically the best overall first craft

and can be later used in offhand as its one of the worse slots in terms of benefits from item level

if you mean "what gear piece will i keep in bis gear"

none

[lone halo]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

bis only has 2 crafted pieces

because of the item level diffrences

means you won't use 3 crafted pieces

[earnest canyon]

sometimes when my burst flag and shadow ends, coup comes up. ST

1. should i wait for symbol and dance to come up before sending it? might need to wait like 15 seconds or so
2. during the second coup, we are supose to shuriken storm, but sometimes it takes 2 or 3 shuriken to get full cp before the coup. is this normal?

[vale pine]

tho given that "bis" is something very long term, the best 3rd piece is the one you have the worse item in

[runic hull]

ok thx man

[limpid sage]

you only send the shuriken storm between coups when shuriken storm grants you full cp

[wheat elk]

D:

[vale pine]

e.g. i probably craft a ring because i only got one heroic ring with good stats so far

[tepid trellis]

read the coup optimization again

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[earnest canyon]

icic, if it doesnt give full cp (eg out of dance), what is the correct cp builder

[tepid trellis]

backstab

[limpid sage]

backstab or shadowstrike (through vanish/shadowmeld)

[earnest canyon]

icic thanks!

[charred plover]

quick question, what changed with s3 from s2 that our finisher prio in aoe changed? e.g. BP already at 4+ targets in dance

[tepid trellis]

bp buffed

nimble nerfed

[charred plover]

aight, easy as that. ty 🙂

[limpid sage]

not that you should save vanish/shadowmeld for those 2 use cases specifically

[fathom adder]

is there a situation where you would storm over backstab while fighting 2 targets? Do i understand it correctly that you would use backstab there because of unseen blade and that other hero talent?

[tepid trellis]

you are backstab soup'ing

[summer peak]

Guys I’m seriously struggling to do with my craft if anyone can shed some light. Neck is Simminy a lot higher for me but I still have Jastor and as it’s bugged am I just best crafting ring even tho sims are lower

[lilac stag]

jastor is sadly really good. you have 3 crafts at this point. do ring and neck?

jastors still buggs out every pull so there's that as well

[summer peak]

I have weapon / wrists at the moment

[fossil forge]

Craft the ring If u still have jastor gang

[summer peak]

So ring will be my 3rd

[lilac stag]

can farm dawn and priory for rings. can also buy a ring

[fossil forge]

still cant decide myself If i should craft neck or ring

Robot is saying ring is better though

[upper girder]

is there anyone here whos good with rogue that can help me out with sub spec? ive been playing it for a long time and I just cant figure out what Im doing wrong and I could use someones input and guidance if someone could hop on a call and look at my rotation and see what Im doing wrong

[lilac stag]

theyre all the same. just dependant on what gear you have

[lilac stag]

use !log

[upper girder]

like on here or ingame?

[lilac stag]

type

it

here

[vagrant fulcrum]

yo would this work for symbols /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null to not multipress it? obviously with symbols instead of tea in the macro

[upper girder]

!log

also why doesnt the log update my gear

[full field]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[half plaza]

Any toughts on 3rd spark use? or whatever sim goes, ring/belt/offset piece

[fast magnet]

do i need 2 daggers for sub or only one on main hand?

[lilac stag]

scroll up or just do what sims suggest lol

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[lilac stag]

why would it? it's a log of what you did at that moment in time

[upper girder]

I can burst some decent dmg but have no sustainable dmg, as soon as Ive used all cds eventually I have nothing up and just have to rely on auto attacks until my energy builds up and cds are done, so I feel like maybe Im doing something wrong with how Im using my abilities

[upper girder]

then how do I make a new log

I was given this log link by someone else

[short radish]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[lilac stag]

run another boss fight/key

[true rain]

Hey mates.
If we open our shadow dance window with sectech, can we fit a second sectech before shadow dance ends ?

[vagrant fulcrum]

you're not, that's sub

you do tank dmg outside of dance kekw

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[upper girder]

then why does everyone complain about my dmg and how I play

its like noone understands how rogues works

[vagrant fulcrum]

bc they're the same people who would say rogue is broken after a pull that dies in your cds and you're doing 2x the next guy

idiots

[lilac stag]

your dmg is bad?

[upper girder]

they say my logs are bad so I dont get into any groups

[lilac stag]

your ilvl is low

[vagrant fulcrum]

oh overall logs means you're either making mistakes or undergeared

[upper girder]

im on ilvl 704 right now

log is old

[lilac stag]

post a current log then

[short radish]

you need to read the guide

youre doing so many things wrong

i dont even know where to start

other than read the guide

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/sound-of-music-music-teacher-julie-andrews-gif-5393530599009457915

[vagrant fulcrum]

has he posted a log?

[short radish]

and read mistakes

i looked at his plexus log

[upper girder]

I posted a old log

[short radish]

but im about to start a key

[vagrant fulcrum]

im not really qualified to log review sub

ill leave it to someone else

[upper girder]

I just dont know how to make any logs or anything

I have no idea how any of this works

[short radish]

nah this one is literally just telling him how the rotation works

[vagrant fulcrum]

ill have a look

[lilac stag]

so thats where you ended in current gear on plexus in last heroic

[upper girder]

how do I even make new logs

[lilac stag]

with veng and blood tanks

[vagrant fulcrum]

dimensius is from yesterday

will check that

[lilac stag]

that's why no one is taking you

[upper girder]

that doesnt tell me much

[vagrant fulcrum]

first thing, craft a weapon

[upper girder]

I dont understand what all this is

[vagrant fulcrum]

a 720 dagger is a big gain regardless of how you play

[upper girder]

of course but Im not able to craft it yet

[vagrant fulcrum]

why do you delay cds

on pull?

[upper girder]

I dont?

I use all my cds on pull

[vagrant fulcrum]

you do

yesterday

??

[keen dome]

Sending SecTec so late in your Dance is also not very good.

On the Plexus log.

[upper girder]

I dont know what plexus log is

[vagrant fulcrum]

forget the plexus log if its mad old

[keen dome]

Oh, ok

[vagrant fulcrum]

this dimensius log is from yesterday

[upper girder]

I didnt even do dimensius yesterday I think, idk XD

[lilac stag]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/draenor/topnepneko?

[vagrant fulcrum]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/c4AJfq1RdTyzw9ZP?fight=51&type=casts&source=649&view=timeline

here

sept 3rd

[lilac stag]

those are all their current heroic logs

[upper girder]

OOH

[vagrant fulcrum]

no 4pc so no double coup

[lilac stag]

mf'er just need to learn to click on names in WCL lol

[upper girder]

I didnt use my full cds at start cuz it was just for the minion

then used cds on dimensius

[keen dome]

I can have a look properly in a minute, just about to suffer in another +10FG

[upper girder]

look at my fight on nexus king if you can

[vagrant fulcrum]

this dance is super sus

you just pressing shadowstrike over and over

[upper girder]

dimensius is def not a good fight for me

[carmine portal]

Bruh

[upper girder]

thats not right

[vagrant fulcrum]

im not even judging how you play the fight, talking more just sub stuff

I understand it can be easy to mess up when dealing with mechanics

[upper girder]

yes but please if you can look at nexus fight

[vagrant fulcrum]

but you need to have this be second nature

[upper girder]

tell me if I did something wrong there

[vagrant fulcrum]

sure

[carmine portal]

Did you not use Flagellation until 4 mins in? I have no idea what im looking at

[upper girder]

calm down there

[vagrant fulcrum]

opener is wrong

[upper girder]

I probably wasnt paying attention at all in the dimensius fight yesterday

[vagrant fulcrum]

you shs > flag > rup > go into cds

this is from nexus

you won't need to change that much to fix this, just have some discipline with how you're playing it out

you need to have rupture up before sending cds

[upper girder]

run rup before popping the cds?

okay

[vagrant fulcrum]

yes

never ever ever

rupture in dance

[upper girder]

can you check dmg on the titan?

[vagrant fulcrum]

you need to apply it before

sure

get used to using backstab

[slate lantern]

yours for 7 mil!

[vagrant fulcrum]

as first generator in a dance

bc of premeditation

extra dm stack too

it's an easy optimisatiton

and a bit of extra dam

[thorny tiger]

Do we always use sectec as first spender in dance windows?

[upper girder]

speaking of this, isnt it something to do with shadow blades too? not to use it when premeditation is up?

I dont remember but its from some guide I read

[vagrant fulcrum]

you can hold blades 1 global ye

[onyx dawn]

I've read what he's saying, I feel like he's trolling here 🤣

[slate lantern]

in the first one, but after the first one ends you immediately send second dance and sometimes sectec wont be up

[vagrant fulcrum]

shs > flag > rup > dance + symbols > backstab > blades + sectec

would be optimal

don't worry too much about holding blades a global

[upper girder]

its so much to keep track off I forget a lot of these things in mid fights for sure

[vagrant fulcrum]

fix the bigger mistakes

keep rup up, sectec first finisher in dance

[upper girder]

Im trolling?

[summer peak]

!log

[vagrant fulcrum]

anyways Ill leave the rest to better sub players than me

[upper girder]

okay well thank you, appreciate the help

[vagrant fulcrum]

if it helps you can copy cd timers from llorgs

[graceful osprey]

My advice would be to take your time and learn the burst rotation on a target dummy. Once you get that down, it’s pretty much rinse and repeat. It does seem a lot but take some time and practice

[vagrant fulcrum]

and put them into mrt or liquid reminders

to help you remember when to send and when to hold

[upper girder]

but to be clear, Im suppose to have moments where I only rely on auto attacks?

[vagrant fulcrum]

yes

there will be downtime

[upper girder]

okay cuz the dps drops like a bomb during those moments

and people who dont play rogue say its bad haha

[graceful osprey]

Yes but dont worry about that right now

[upper girder]

okay thank you

[vagrant fulcrum]

thing is overall your damage will be alright

you are so big in cds

[upper girder]

fair enough

[graceful osprey]

You time your CDs right, you’ll fly back up to the top quickly

[upper girder]

yeah it happens a lot from time to time, even beating rogues who are higher ilvl in burst

but its only when I hit rotation right I suppose

I do it differently all the time and mess up a lot

[graceful osprey]

Try to get your burst rotation as consistent as possible. That’ll increase your dps the most.

[vagrant fulcrum]

there are some shortcuts you can take at some losses to make it easier

tea is like 1% behind cb

and entirely macro'd

gives you more energy to play with aswell

but i'd reccomend just learning the entire thing if you feel up to it

[strange heath]

you can also just macro cold blood into secret technique too, its not a terrible dps loss but also not optimal

[vagrant fulcrum]

the issue is if it's not up for blades

but ye you can do that

[upper girder]

hmm okayy, does it matter much if I play more like m+ talents in raid? just for having more energy, would I lose a lot of dmg on that

[vagrant fulcrum]

depends which boss and what your m+ talents are

generally speaking sub's m+ talents are pretty good at st

iirc it's primarily raid build with replicating and tea instead of cb

[upper girder]

Im curious though, how do you guys get by in dimensius? because I cannot find time to do rotations and deal enough dmg with all mechanics to follow

people complained a lot to me about that and I just cant find the time

[tepid trellis]

you just need to watch out for the puddle drop timers

thats about it

[upper girder]

what about the adds?

[tepid trellis]

and the gravity mech

[shadow snow]

Inside the rotarion why we dont macro shadow blades to flagellation since they both have same cd and we press shadow blades when flag is up

[tepid trellis]

those 2 are the only things that force you off the boss

[tepid trellis]

might have same cd

but they dont have the same duration

[upper girder]

well if I get circle I need to move away to not place it on a dumb place, then its the adds, soak, pull, stacking, theres a lot of things

mostly theres very little time inbetween

[tepid trellis]

only the puddle drop and the gravity mech

[upper girder]

if i am going to do a full rotation Id have to skip some mechanic it feels like

[tepid trellis]

forces you off the boss

if you are off the boss on the others

[graceful osprey]

I think once you can get the rotation down, it’ll be easier to incorporate following boss mechanics for dimensius

[tepid trellis]

its either you standing weird or the people clashing the debuff doing it in the wrong place

[shadow snow]

Hm i dont get how that answers my question

[tepid trellis]

you would loose blades value

cuz its only 16 long

[upper girder]

adds are forcing me off the boss, and if people are not picking up orbs to pull down I have to do it to save the fight

[tepid trellis]

flag is 24

[upper girder]

theres A LOT taking me off the boss

[tepid trellis]

so you want blades where you do most of your dmg

not on your flag cast

you can cleave the adds

from the boss

so no they dont

[shadow snow]

Oh i thought flag is 12 sorry

[upper girder]

honestly didnt even think about that

I think maybe Im trying to take on more responsibility in a raid than I need to as a rogue

[graceful osprey]

If you’re taking orbs, there’s not much you can do about that since you need to get people down BUT typically, you’ll probably be in the low part of sub dps where your CDs are still on cooldown so no need to worry. Most of sub rogues damage comes from their burst window anyways

[tepid trellis]

just let nimble flurry, sectech etc do their thing

all you gotta look out for really is puddles and reverse gravity or w/e the fuck the mech is called

[upper girder]

yeah mostly Ive been raid leading and focusing on all this and tacts when I should be focusing more on dmg and fixing my rotation

Im so focused on mechanics so that we dont wipe because people just wont follow mechanics 70% of times in pugs

normally I think you would have people assigned for taking orbs to make it easier

[keen dome]

On Dimensius? Nah just yolo it, whoever runs over them can handle them on N/H.

[vale pine]

our raiders painfully avoid taking the mass

so its typically me who takes one

[upper girder]

Hahaha rip

[vale pine]

i mean its like

[graceful osprey]

I honestly don’t mind taking mass, it’s not like I’m doing damage anyways with my cds down kek

[vale pine]

do i want to whipe for an hour or more on the fight

[upper girder]

what is good dps on 704 ilvl? and no 4 set bonus

[vale pine]

or get loot fast

soo

[upper girder]

I have all BIS pieces pretty much in hc

[vale pine]

you should have the 4 set by now

if you don't, the catalyst should help

[upper girder]

should but dont because I was dumb enough to use an upgrade early on

[alpine raft]

can this be used in double on use with prism instead of forge ?

[vale pine]

well 4p is ~20% damage

so you are not compeating without it

[short radish]

it's better than a lily

[upper girder]

I do around 4m dps generally, maybe 6-8m on good rotation in burst

[short radish]

and im pretty sure i saw a log on mythic plexus with it

[upper girder]

is that good or bad?

[alpine raft]

okok

[onyx dawn]

!log

Looking for a review of mt Frac log as its pretty much target dummy - Burst in CDs is decent, but feel like I don't sustain and always drop back to 3.5mil mark, even on dummies.

I feel like I'm over committing dances/symbols outside of cds, and screwing myself ? 🤷‍♂️

[keen dome]

It's damage. In a vaccume, it's hard to say yes or no. If you look on your logs and check ilevel parse, you'll see your damage comparative to a log at your iLevel.

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[upper girder]

how do I like make new logs and such?

is it an addon or something for it

[keen dome]

I forget the in-game command 'cos I use the raioder.io addon to toggle it on. But then you just upload the combat log. Warcraft logs has a tutorial on how to do it all. Let me find it.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/help/start

[tepid trellis]

thats what i sit at after my burst ends on a non lust on pull no pot

so you are fighting an uphill battle

[lilac stag]

@tepid trellis how is prog going?

[tepid trellis]

enrage

[cinder axle]

any thougts on the netherprism hot fix and the 1,5% DPS loss?

[shy beacon]

you guys run with thistle tea in m+? seen so many cb runs lately, and with tea I sim like I dont need more mastery, and Im around 80% haha

[upper girder]

what ilvl are you? and are you 4 set?

[tepid trellis]

you can see it in the picture but im 713

[upper girder]

oh yeah didnt see haha

then I think 8mil burst is fine? since Im 704 and dont have 4 set

[tepid trellis]

i can probably go find a boss with lust on pull

[lilac stag]

that extra 1% burst with lust

or whatever the little bit it adds

[upper girder]

I gotta make some new logs for myself hahaha, cant be running with these old logs

[keen dome]

Logging is a very useful analysis tool to have

[lilac stag]

they're on your permanent record. never going to get a good job now

[upper girder]

uh oh

how will I get that job on mcdonalds now

[lilac stag]

better just reroll BM hunter or play assa

[upper girder]

maybe I just delete this rogue and make a new one

[keen dome]

Don't worry I have the funniest logs I will never delete

[upper girder]

thats some good dps gawd

[upper girder]

good lord in heavens

[keen dome]

I got assassinated by the coward Ret Paladin on the first webs and then the boss was killed with me dead.

[short radish]

!mistakes

[keen dome]

And I made sure to upload it because it's funny

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[upper girder]

I love that

[short radish]

read the above

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

then also read one of the guides

and go to the explanation tab

[real rain]

so tell me guys how do i play with this neatherprism trinket, i have lily or pacemaker for second trinket

[keen dome]

Pacemaker is probably comfier than Lily

[shadow lance]

Pacemaker

[keen dome]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[tepid trellis]

@lilac stag but yeah we are at the enrage on saladbar, so should die tonight perhaps

[keen dome]

Hell yeah Stealthi

I believe in your destruction of the saladbar

[tepid trellis]

just need to move stuff away from platforms and onto the amp

[lilac stag]

nice. any tipps for araz? we start tonight

[real rain]

so i shouldnt bind neatherprism with blade? lets say on a raid boss on opener i just dont use trinket at all

[tepid trellis]

time dances for adds

thats about it

[short radish]

pylons arent your job

just afk

[lilac stag]

solid

[keen dome]

You can but I have mine unbound and just hit it when I need it. More control.

[tepid trellis]

flame your hunter for binding shot the adds inside the portal

so your sectech misses

thats about it

[lilac stag]

hahah

[tepid trellis]

with decent dps you can lust pull

[real rain]

but would u use it on opener at start wthout stacks, if you dont have araz?

[tepid trellis]

and skip 2nd intermission

[lilac stag]

i'm not sure our other rogue will sub it up. assa should be fine for them ye?

[keen dome]

Yeah, sometimes. Depends on the fight and situation

[tepid trellis]

think assa is okay

wont do the same smallie dmg

but they also just kinda die

very fast

[lilac stag]

i think it'll be me, havoc, spriest eating the adds

[tepid trellis]

but yeh can just lust on pull

and skip 2nd intermission

[lilac stag]

Yea I asked about our lust plans. I’ll likely just plan out cds for both

[tepid trellis]

cds dont change really

[lilac stag]

nice

[lilac stag]

I think we call this pooling

[keen dome]

no, pooling is for the other rogues

Ours is discord posting

[short radish]

nono

acutally just afk

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/afk-brb-afk-brb-gif-2441409518889357786

[tepid trellis]

backstab soup'in

[short radish]

delicious soup

[lilac stag]

idk if we'll get it down in one night, but i'd love to replace my lfr forge haha

[wispy crystal]

15 runs of echo dome and no lily trinket.

is there anyway i can increase my chances?

[lilac stag]

yeah loot prims and not give a shit about lily

https://tenor.com/view/its-thats-simple-neil-degrasse-tyson-star-talk-easy-period-gif-20197196

[keen dome]

make sure to pet the purrkins before you enter the dungeon

[kind river]

I keep hearing complaints from people in guild that their antenna trinket orbs will run away from them sometimes but I've never had this experience yet

[vast condor]

Took me 33 floodgates for pacemaker last season to ending up getting it from vault the day after

[kind river]

got a M track antenna in vault this week so I just took it

[wispy crystal]

33 floodgates for a heroic pacemaker.
and then 1 day late a mythic pacemaker? Xd

[vast condor]

Yes made me sadge

[gilded ferry]

stealthi, do you plan on posting all bosses pov in your channel?

[tepid trellis]

not all, no

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/mapache-pedro-gif-7206648027763736533

[tepid trellis]

last two yes

[carmine portal]

im literally collection HC lillies atm

Got 3 in the bags

3 lillies 0 ring/neck drops this season

[swift tinsel]

I've been a ring and neck drop machine this season

[wispy crystal]

well necks and rings can be crafted !

trinkets cant 🙁

[carmine portal]

I dont fancy crafting 50 items tho

[swift tinsel]

and also shitter trinkets

[tepid trellis]

i have 3 prisms

LFR, normal and HC

[swift tinsel]

almost have the exodia

[subtle comet]

I've got a quick question. I've been blessed by the RNG gods, and got a myth lily in vault this week. Then got hero prism in clear. Is there a world where you run double on use?

[tepid trellis]

unfortunately mythic has decided to not want to drop

[fair anchor]

I wanted to try SHT + PE in keys, I should drop Rotten and ? RS ?

[neon frigate]

Hey guys, maybe stupid question, but who is capable of crafting boots 720 rune branded kickers in eu?

[swift tinsel]

I'm stuck with hc sigil passive, hoping for antenna or pacemaker vault

[tepid trellis]

use the ingame for that please, not this discord

[cinder axle]

How are u guys playing the netherprism right? I nearly use it with every shadowblades i use and dont give it that much thougt - is it better to use it every 3 min with 18 stacks or every 1.5mins with like 9-10 stacks?

[leaden prairie]

not me

i havent leveled any proffesion

actualy i did level engineering

cause i was farming the firework dummy

[subtle comet]

Rookie mistake.

[leaden prairie]

but blizzard broker it now for some reason

well no engineering is op

you get tps to zones and shit

always good qol

[subtle comet]

Yeah, I meme on it as an infinite money sink

[fair anchor]

SL Engineering 1 to get the AH in Oribos

that's it

[subtle comet]

The toys are pretty handy

[leaden prairie]

i have the mailbox

and the bank thing

jeeves

also i have teleport to every zone in the game

like sl zones, df zones, tww zones

[subtle comet]

Who could forget blingbot

[leaden prairie]

so even when my dungeon tp is down i can get there

[final cedar]

Is it ever worth to send symbols sec tech if it’ll be off cd when blades are ready but am too low on dance charges

[slate lantern]

why craft boots tho

[carmine portal]

yeah this is true

You just need to prayge for DH boots

[neon frigate]

I do not have interloper yet. And already crafted dagger, gloves and neckalce is mythic

[spice matrix]

unless you dont plan on raiding you arent going to craft boots

[lilac stag]

Ring bracer shoulders

[carmine portal]

Hoard crests

[lilac stag]

gloves. ewe

[hazy breach]

Presumably youll just be able to buy the boots in .5 patch anyway with the certal chips replacement

[lilac stag]

wtf

[hazy breach]

So even if you dont raid youll replace your craft with hc boots in a few weeks anyway

[neon frigate]

yeah but wanted to empty the starlight green shard 🙂

its 60k dmg increase for me

or did I really screw up?

[wispy crystal]

can i buy trinkets in patch 0.5 ":D

[carmine portal]

I mean if the cartel chips are the same then yeah, you should be able too

[hazy breach]

Yes

[jolly anchor]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[burnt abyss]

can anyone recommend a good sub guide video for this season (im a visual learner) to go along with Whyspyr's guide on wowhead?

[alpine wraith]

wowhead guide is fuu and ive done the video guides for this season yea

[burnt abyss]

ah cool sorry

[alpine wraith]

there are also others around too

[slate lantern]

fuu writes the sub guide, and prob the most recent video guide would be from hacha

oh damn hacha beat me

[burnt abyss]

hacha got it 🙂 thx

lol all g thx all

[slate lantern]

i think normal interlopers outsim crafted boots for me? cant remember

[burnt abyss]

sorry fuu 🙂

[neon frigate]

yeah interlopers are better :), but you have to get hem first lol

[tiny sierra]

Should I always wait to have unseen blade before i enter flag window?

[hazy breach]

No

[alpine wraith]

coup just comes and goes best you can do is hold it if it procced close to flag

[tiny sierra]

Ty

[onyx dawn]

Our bottom DPS player won herioc prism yesterday and I died inside.

[carmine portal]

now is his tme to top dollar dps

[burnt abyss]

@alpine wraith great video guide so far, subbed and liked. Thanks!

[stoic pier]

!macros

[devout jackal]

Shindig also has a sub guide. It's worth watching the season 2 guide as much hadn't changed then watch the season 3 guide where he explains the differences

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[alpine wraith]

thx man sub is very unpopular so we have to band together

[stoic pier]

Does anyone have the rupture mouseover macro?

[lilac stag]

Have you tried getting gud?

[alpine wraith]

should be easy to just /cast @mouseover rupture

or do you want something fancy

[lilac stag]

Add no dead and harm

[stoic pier]

Currently I have two keybinds, normal on target rupture and mouseover rupture, but I was thinking on replacing the two for one mouseover keybind rupture that if there isnt any target on mouseover it should apply to the target, but idk if this exists

[alpine wraith]

likely it does

[devout jackal]

It does

[kind lynx]

Do we have to rupture when they are more than 10 target or it doesn’t matter ?

[manic sierra]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility >= Critical Strike >>> Haste

[alpine wraith]

your prio is to use your cds but you can rupture while pack gathers

[stoic pier]

Its good too, if you got the shuriken tornado its easier to apply at the start of the pack

[lilac stag]

You rupture when you’re out of cds or tank is gathering when mobs are all over the place.

[burnt abyss]

Yes watched it already just wanted something a bit more recent but it was a great video, agreed.

[lilac stag]

Fuck tornado.

Time to start Chat banning people encouraging that behavior.

[stoic pier]

Yeah i dont like it either but when I was testing this talent i was using it in two ways: applying rupture faster on packs mounting and as a bp filler between cds

[short radish]

fuck tornado

[stoic pier]

Me and my homies just fuck with rotten + cb build

[short radish]

note has been set. hope it was worth it

[maiden oar]

i have never tried tornado because people say its bad

but i should try it and form my own opinion

why is it disliked

[short radish]

because i rather punch myself in the balls 4 times than play tornado in a key

[stoic pier]

pls forgive me, i dont use tornado 😭

[maiden oar]

oh ok

[short radish]

5 times though i'd probably play tornado

[short radish]

TOO LATE

NO FORGIVENESS

[stoic pier]

[maiden oar]

[short radish]

RS is just so comfy as well

its 100% more rupture

[swift tinsel]

yeah I tried a few runs without it and I hate to admit I missed it

the extra shadow damage is meh but just having out twice as many is nice

[short radish]

exactly

[plucky parrot]

the classic

[short radish]

youre casting nado out of dance as well

and who cares what you do outside of dance

[balmy condor]

in this sequence, doesnt backstab turn into shadowstrike?

[short radish]

whoa i can rupture a pack out of dance in 5 globals

crazyyyyyyy

[short radish]

separate bind

[balmy condor]

oh god

[short radish]

[covert meteor]

Just add backstab do your shadow dance

Since shadow dance is not on the gcd, it'll backstab at the same time and give you a stack of macabre

[vale pine]

its intentional a backstab

!bs

[hazy breach]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[vale pine]

you can use this macro to do it

its a small optimization ^^

[lofty cave]

why shuriken storm in between coups ?

[hazy breach]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[lofty cave]

can someone explain plz

[slate lantern]

Unseen blade procs on bs/ss, we don't want that if coup is up, so we storm

[half plaza]

Guys quick question, new on sub btw xD
On huge pack on m+, on opener, u spread rupture on pull or just after dance

[slate lantern]

As the tank gathers

[balmy condor]

so you always want to backstab after your shadow dance even outside of CDs?

[vale pine]

you want to use backstab as your first builder

with premeditation

its a small optimization

and becomes less relevant with more targets

[lofty cave]

why dont we want to proc unseen blade isnt that more dmg ?

[vale pine]

well

[short radish]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[slate lantern]

Cause we want to save it to build to the next coup, after we've used the 2

[vale pine]

we want to proc it

[tiny sierra]

Sometimes when I do that i don’t get to 6+cps, guess I’m messing up the shadow technique right?

[vale pine]

but not during the buff

[rigid walrus]

i love having to use macros to perform well

[vale pine]

because the buff munches them

and we want to get stacks of escalating blades

not waste them

[hearty flint]

U don’t with fast fingers

[little shoal]

Do we ever press BP inside of dance windows? or is it just same SS/Evis?

[hazy breach]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

• Always cast Coup de Grace when it is ready, regardless of target count.
• Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
• At ALL target counts use Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm.

[hearty flint]

Isn’t BP best used when u have find weakness on at least minimum 4 mobs

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[hearty flint]

Not just 4 mobs

[short radish]

@onyx dawn

[hazy breach]

there is no other secret rule

[slate lantern]

I love not having to use 4 separate keybinds for shadow blades, pot, trinket, racial

[lofty cave]

so when we do our first coup we have 0 stacks escalating blades right

[onyx dawn]

Why you @ me in front of everyone. 🤣

[short radish]

because thread doesnt do !commands

[maiden oar]

i see some people using rs and 1x finality on salhadaar but i cant figure out why id want to do that

[onyx dawn]

fair

[maiden oar]

is it just if you get blessing of autumn?

[lilac stag]

!dn

[short radish]

sounds like someone hiding a secret rule would say

[warm marlin]

I thought about rs for the 2 target cleave section but it’s just so short

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/what-are-you-trying-to-hide-accusing-guilty-hiding-evidence-blaming-gif-15949704

[maiden oar]

i have enough time to fok rupture all the platform dudes before flag is up and when hes on the dragon i either can vanish to rupture the dragon pre platform np or im pooling for amp

yeah

[warm marlin]

And ya rupture before p2 vanish strike rupture the dragon

[lilac stag]

Enough time to what?

[maiden oar]

i just re up rupture on him when he does the big blue kb between p1 and p2

[cold zodiac]

guys if i will push mythics as subtely but i will raid as assasination should i craft my gear with Elemental Focusing Lens ?

[maiden oar]

sorry storm

[short radish]

embelishments dont matter

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/getout-gif-16327023334064302194

[maiden oar]

too many ss rogue buttons

[cold zodiac]

perfect then

[maiden oar]

abbreviation too confusing

[warm marlin]

PE is goated burst anyway idk why you wouldn’t want that for burn

[tepid trellis]

i played RS to spread ruptures on platform

[maiden oar]

did u get autumn

[tepid trellis]

i do yes

[lofty cave]

our 4 set buff lets ur proc another coup after first one right so we shuriken storm in betweeen ciups because we dont wanna backstab because that might proc an unseen blade which will stack an escalating blade but it wld go to waste when we do our 2nd coup right ?

[short radish]

you should open with ss since it'll teleport you to the mob but if you can't ss for some reason you can ss. you can also ss to spread fw to each mob or cast ss individually while in dance

[maiden oar]

my thought process is that with autumn its worth

[tepid trellis]

autumn

has nothing to do with it

[hazy breach]

Autumn doesnt matter much

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[maiden oar]

but wthout you have enough time

oh i mean

[balmy condor]

so this is except for the coup proc?

[maiden oar]

i have enough pre flag globals on platform to rupture every guy

but i wouldnt with autumn

[hazy breach]

Ye

[maiden oar]

bc flag is back faster

[tepid trellis]

RS is just more rupture dmg

so more platform dmg

[maiden oar]

no i meant shadowstep shuriken storm shadow strike

ss can mean anything

[short radish]

so did I

[maiden oar]

oh hehe

i tricked myself with brain autofilling ss

[short radish]

also secret technique and shadow techniques

DONT CONFUSE THOSE TWO

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[maiden oar]

oh i see not about gcd efficiency

i focus too hard on the duplication perhaps

[tepid trellis]

ive ran both talent setups

and i honestly couldnt really tell the difference

[lofty cave]

but if we backstab in between coups wldnt we still be at 0 escalating blades after our 2nd coup any ways ?

[maiden oar]

yeah i think i stick to the symbols crit

[lofty cave]

i dont get it

[maiden oar]

bc i want to beat up the boss

but idk if im correct

[hazy breach]

If you have the 4p up and proc unseen blade, it doesnt count towards your next coup

Coup > Shadowstrike+Unseen Blade > Coup > You have 0 stacks of escalating blade (coup)
Coup > Storm > Coup > Strike+Unseen blade > You have 1 stack of escalating blade (coup)

[lofty cave]

but regardless after we do our 2nd coup well be at 0 stacks of escalating blades anyways right

[warm marlin]

depends on ur raid a bit

[tepid trellis]

yes but you wouldve wasted one

[warm marlin]

probably not a big difference either way

[maiden oar]

am 1x on use so im just compensating with prism mostly

if u mean allocating platform dmg vs boss dmg

[tepid trellis]

sectech lets you bypass the cooldown and grants you 1 stack on your next two strikes/backstabs

[hazy breach]

I mean theres practically no difference between them either way, even for the burn

[lofty cave]

wat cooldown ?

[maiden oar]

yeah i simmed them and its .6s st loss to run rs and 1 finality

but i dont know how to quantify the rupture dmg amp on dragon and platform

[tepid trellis]

unseen blade procs has an internal cooldown

[vale pine]

backstab and shadowstrike proc unseen blades - which give 1 or 2 stacks of escalating blades
buring the 4 set buff, we can't get stacks of escalating blades, this means using backstab or shadowstrike can waste stacks.
It is why we use storm instead (during blades)

[vagrant fulcrum]

yo, asked this earlier but didn't get a response, does the sin tea shiv macro line for not recasting work on symbols?

#showtooltip Shiv
/cast Shiv
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

this

but with tea replaced with symbols

[lofty cave]

ohhh because escalating blade only procs once every 20 secs from backstab or ss

[warm marlin]

I was talking to Eleem yday about this but while we were still lusting platform yesterday (will move today) my raid is killing our titan like 15s early with a dps dead and me not sending a third dance and not using prism at all

I think add damage is fine at this point

ilvl kinda high

[vagrant fulcrum]

it doesn't work ingame

[tepid trellis]

we usually kill titan when its about to start the cast

[lofty cave]

and if we backstab in between coups thats wastin an escalating blade stack meaning id have to wait another 20 secs meaning it will take longer for my next coup to proc right ?

[maiden oar]

yeah im in a similar position so ill see today

i am 18 stacking it rn for prog

but i probably will try to not do that going forward

well idk i see all the 1x on use logs go 9 stack 3x from 1m30s to 4m30s or 0/18/9

so maybe its ok to 18 stack it but that feels like a bit much if u are trying to kill the boss

[warm marlin]

I said this yesterday #subtlety message and moved my spymaster like 20 minutes later

[lofty cave]

and if we backstab in between coups thats wastin an escalating blade stack meaning id have to wait another 20 secs meaning it will take longer for my next coup to proc right ?

can someone confirm if im understanding it right ?

[maiden oar]

ty

i think i keep overdoing platform until any pull could kill probably

bc im a coward

[gaunt bluff]

am i misremembering or evasion was supposed to tank the mailman soak?

[maiden oar]

if it gets uneven ill just do less stack though

[vagrant sinew]

yeah worked back in the day

[maiden oar]

i am on a platform with a fdk

[tepid trellis]

Yep thats the gist of it

[maiden oar]

so we might blow it up too fast once we are deep p3 prog

[vale pine]

it means

you are on 4 stacks during that time

and you would generate a stack

but can't

because the tier set prevents that

so wasting means

not getting it

when you would have without the tier set buff

[vagrant fulcrum]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[vagrant fulcrum]

#showtooltip Symbols of Death
/castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null
/cqs

found it

why isn't this in a command

[vagrant sinew]

think its

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[vagrant fulcrum]

ah

[vagrant sinew]

but yeah should probaly just get merged @vale pine

easy to miss

[vagrant fulcrum]

hm, is there a reason it isn't working for a second cast of symbols

I guess I can't spam it

have to wait 2s

[vale pine]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[balmy condor]

how many stacks of macabre should u get?

[vale pine]

it is, but its less commonly needed

[hazy breach]

Its not something you should be tracking or thinking about

[vale pine]

just follow the rules, there is no number you need to hit

[vagrant fulcrum]

fair enough

[gaunt bluff]

do u know then do i need to cloak it?

if i wanna solo it