subtlety

[swift tinsel]

very

[alpine wraith]

good everywhere but pvp

[signal moth]

so after the opener, we symbols before ST inbetween and then just hold everything again for flag or can we use symbols/dance another time on its own?

[alpine wraith]

depends on the cdr situation

[signal moth]

wtf does that mean lol

are they not the same?

like on frac

[swift tinsel]

the number of dances you use between flags can be different based on your cdr situation

[alpine wraith]

you want to have a number of dances and SoD for when you get cds back

[signal moth]

yh and what is the rule to make sure that is the case?

[swift tinsel]

stop using at 30sec left on flag cd

[signal moth]

so if i have 0 charges at 30 sec on flag

i will haev them up?

[swift tinsel]

if that's the case you messed up somewhere along the way

[manic salmon]

di men si us

[signal moth]

that is what i am asking

when i can use/not use stuff

[keen dome]

Dimmy D's Discount Dimension Dispensary

[swift tinsel]

the only way you'd have 0 dances that close to flag is if you chained them back to back

[rocky sparrow]

Guys, hc ritual forge sims for me as a non dps gain, im using lily and sigil.
Is there any obvious reason why that is happening?

[manic salmon]

i have a solution

take shadow dance off your bars

if you never press it, you can never mess up its usage

[keen dome]

That's smart

[swift tinsel]

zdps at all times

hmge

[swift tinsel]

there's no 100% timeline you follow every time

you generally get 2 dances between first and second flag, 1 possibly 2 between second and third

and that alternates

but it also depends on rng

[keen dome]

It's about setting expectations

[bleak night]

its about sending a message

[swift tinsel]

[dry zodiac]

Ritual forge isn’t great on its own, because you only have it for every other set of cooldowns. It’s good when paired with netherprism and you alternate them. Not surprising that Lily beats it

[manic salmon]

i love solo using forge

[polar trail]

Is it worth to wait on max stacks on netherprism before sending with cds?

[swift tinsel]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[polar trail]

TY!

[fleet dock]

Anyone wanting to try a simple 'The First Dance' WA? Bare with me as this is my first WA I made, but if you could check it out and let me know what you think. Tracks 'The First Dance' buff for Subtlety Rogues with countdown, glow, and optional audio alerts.

https://wago.io/7ekY_3dML

[sonic ermine]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[signal moth]

why is it rng? isnt the recharge the smae or are you decreasing it in some way? This is like my 3rd day as sub

so the opener, then inbetween flag you can use dance/symbols 2x more then you just hold for flag and that in 'general' shoud be good?

[swift tinsel]

dance and secret technique have cdr components to them based on combo points spent

[signal moth]

does symbols?

[swift tinsel]

this is affected by shadow techniques, as well as rng with the tier set granting more or less cdr

no

but you only use symbols with sectech

[signal moth]

do i still 100% of the time use symbols before ST?

[swift tinsel]

yes

outside of very niche scenarios

which you likely won't encounter until you're purposefully playing with them

[signal moth]

ok but as a noob, when do i just not use dance to make sure i have 2 up?

even if its not optimal

i know its rng

but there has to be a ... 'kind of number'

[swift tinsel]

as I've said

you typically use 2 between first and second flag

and 1 or 2 between second and third

and that alternates

the ability to use 2 between second and third is based on rng

and how much cdr you get bc of it

[idle aurora]

Should I be using two on use trinkets this season if I have netherprism and Lilly

[pliant gate]

craft a ring angle looks like for me :O

vers mas ?

[tidal marsh]

no

[swift tinsel]

only really want to use prism with forge if you can

[tidal marsh]

Yeh

[idle aurora]

Prism over Lilly though

[tidal marsh]

Otherwise you're just turning Lily into a 3 minute trinket

[swift tinsel]

yeah prism is far and away our best on-use

[viscid urchin]

is it normal to overlap SoD durations? Im trying to make sure all my sectechs are supercharged but it feels like im wasting SoD duration.

[idle aurora]

I don’t have forge

[swift tinsel]

the only part of sod you really care about it supercharging sectech

[viscid urchin]

ok makes sense

[swift tinsel]

if you refresh it before pandemic that's w/e

with inevitability the pandemic duration doesn't really mean much

[pliant gate]

oh god im gonna have to sim every crafted piece and ring varaiation i can since i have 5pc but one is raid finder 😭

[swift tinsel]

well its gonna be vers/mastery, crit/vers, or crit/mastery

[bleak night]

yeah you can just not sim anything with haste

halves the amount of iterations

ez

[swift tinsel]

so if you're simming rings its not gonna be crazy

[vale osprey]

Just comparing my logs to another (much better) sub rogue in my guild and noticing that my average flawless form stacks is MUCH lower than his, anyone know something I might be missing off the top of their head that means I'm sitting at like 14 when he's sitting at like 25?

[swift tinsel]

and unless your crit is massively behind the other two its likely vers/mastery

[swift tinsel]

is he casting notably more coups than you

[vale osprey]

1 more over the course of the fight I'm looking at

But he's consistently above on stacks

[finite sequoia]

in between cds and after bleeds, should i do nothing to let shadow techniques stack up for next cds?

[viscid urchin]

should probably cast backstab once or twice

just for lulz

[signal moth]

so how do i like.. figure this out myself to know? lol

how do you know when its ok to use or not use

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-pepeuniverse-pepeuniversenft-pepe-drink-pepe-drunk-gif-25130586

[swift tinsel]

you count the number of times you cast dance between each flag

I don't know how to explain it more plainly

[keen dome]

You learn it through practice

[finite sequoia]

usually your flag cd is a good indicator of when you should use dance is my experience

[vale osprey]

In our first CD window, we both get to about 17 stacks at around 20 seconds, and then somehow he is consistnetly about to get up to about 27 stacks, whereas I fall off to about 10, we can't see anything TOO different that we're doing. I'm very lost but it's clearly where I'm losing a lot of damage in my sub play 🙃

[finite sequoia]

if it has 30s left you should consider your dance stack/cd

and whether you can get a lot of cdr in the next 30s

[swift tinsel]

Maybe share the log you’re referencing so we can see

[vale osprey]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/YaWjV4LFw7Z6QTcH/self?fight=36%2C36&type=auras&source=126%2C116&start=3547186%2C3547186&end=3623267%2C3623267&view=events&ability=441326

This is the comparison view of our buffs, Rise is the good player, I am the not good player

Welcome to DMs or public berratings from any good sub rogues, I'll take all the knowledge I can get

[forest moss]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[acoustic matrix]

Rotation looks solid. Only thing I noticed is you always shuriken storm between coups. You only want to do that during Shadow Blades window cause it gets you full CP

[dusk stone]

No. Go farm pacemaker it is 0.4% behind antenna

[vale osprey]

Thanks! Just spotted that too. Do you know if that'd make as big of a diff to my flawless form stacks as I'm seeing between both of us in these fights? I can't think of a reason it would, obviously wasted global bad though.

[swift tinsel]

you can do it outside blades too if it'll get you 6+ cp

[runic sinew]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[haughty mural]

Eg in aoe

[swift tinsel]

or with enough sht stacks

[acoustic matrix]

yeah he's on fracti here

[swift tinsel]

can still get in st

[acoustic matrix]

yeah with sht true

[signal moth]

ok so rule of thumb to start learning is.. if flag has 30 seconds to come up just dont use anything lol

otherwise just.. kind of yolo it until i figure out wtf im doing

[haughty mural]

Yes of course

[signal moth]

my mains have been monk/dh or tanks and rogue is just kind of weird in this respect lol

[haughty mural]

Was just giving an example

[acoustic matrix]

No, that might cost you a stack here and there but that's not something you're spamming so not a huge diff

[swift tinsel]

other dude said it was fract but I was saying it wasn't limited to aoe, can do it on that fight too

[warm marlin]

I don’t think that’s what that sim means btw

[signal moth]

ok who here does coaching.. like i can sit with them for an hour in voice and spam them questions that are too dumb for this chat?

[warm marlin]

The one u posted in tc

Effective cp means the combo points you have + supercharger + 5 for coup

[swift tinsel]

thought it was current+sht stacks

[shadow lance]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[lapis verge]

for those of you playing both sin and sub what stats are you putting on these crafted pieces at this point

crit vers or

have wep/wrist crit mast

cant decide on ring stats

[hazy breach]

Just not haste and youre fine

[lapis verge]

ya that seems fair

[warm marlin]

Afaik it means your effective current cp count as in if you cast a finisher right then it would be x effective points

[acoustic matrix]

Actually I notice you're only using shadow dance with Symbols. Do you have them macro'ed. This is probably why you have less stacks

[warm marlin]

The line does trigger 0.03 times per sim so it is sometimes casting it

[swift tinsel]

can you clarify what effective_combo_points describes in the apl please?

[vale osprey]

Nope, pressing them individually, sorry for potentially obvious question but how does that mean I'd be wasting stacks?

[hazy breach]

It means current cp + supercharger

Instead of current cp

[swift tinsel]

aha

so to model current+sht stacks how would I go about that

[warm marlin]

coup counts too yes

[hazy breach]

Fairly sure it doesnt

Which is why theres a seperate thing for coup

[acoustic matrix]

you're not refreshing shadow dance inside of shadow blades causing you to lose uptime

[warm marlin]

[hazy breach]

I thought so too but zac proved me wrong, some time ago

[edgy zenith]

eleem I have a question about rotation:
have coup ready with FW on target and no rupture on target.
flag > rupture > dance > backstab > SB > coup > sod > SS > sectech > shuriken > coup
Is this better or worse than just going normal sectech coup coup. I feel like supercharge the second is better

[hazy breach]

Worse

[swift tinsel]

is current cp the actual points you have or is that the ones in your bar + sht stacks

[hazy breach]

You can just math it out that 16% on a coup is more damage than supercharging the second one

But also you lose out on cdr on sectech

By using it earlier

[edgy zenith]

hmm

fair enough

I thought you could like catch the coup delay with SoD if you cast it fast

so you don't lose the full 16% value

but after testing I actually don't think you can

it doesn't get the benefit

which is weird bc SB does catch and amp

[west tide]

guys i want taivan is it worth

i didnt do any loam niffen im so behind on rep man

[hazy breach]

supercharging the second coup is effectively 1 more cp of damage but buffing the first one by 16% is roughly worth 2 cp of damage

[bleak night]

yes

[west tide]

whats the hardest thing thats once a week

so i can start now

[bleak night]

how could this dude not be worth

[edgy zenith]

so anytime I have coup into a dance window, I'm just doing boring old sectech coup coup?

[inner garnet]

Is it straight up bad to craft 2x daggers if you simply have no rng getting anything in HC and will never touch myth raid?

[west tide]

id say its not bad but just check to see if a 720 craft elsewhere would suit u better

[hazy breach]

Yes

[edgy zenith]

man, I want tech bro

it's been so long

[west tide]

hes so big

[edgy zenith]

he doesn't fly though, not worth

[plush roost]

You want tech

[bleak night]

forbidden reach takes a long time, i think most of it isnt weekly but its a bit of a grind

[west tide]

dude i want that so bad still

[plush roost]

⚠️ Warning Signs ⚠️ is right there

[bleak night]

that and hunts

were annoying as fuck

[west tide]

when we not flying in midnight

[edgy zenith]

i don't know what this means

[viscid urchin]

It means ⚠️ Warning Signs ⚠️ is right ➡️ there ⬅️

[warm marlin]

thats why you insta press it so 75% of the coup still benefits from the 16% 🤓 thereby meaning you get 1 cp more of damage and lose out on 0.5 cps worth of damage

[plush roost]

Its our VERY GOOD talent that gives us 6% (SIX) haste during SoD

!!!!1!

[plush roost]

I wish you would insta press me..

Haha jk

...unless?

[dusk stone]

is it 6% flat or +6%

[warm marlin]

[keen dome]

Someday, somewhere, Warning Signs is going to be a really good talent

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/aragorn-but-notthis-day-lotr-gif-14120761

[keen dome]

Could be tomrorow though

You never know.

Someone could wake up and go EUREKA and cook a build with it that we all use.

[viscid urchin]

Warnings signs will give 30% haste tomorrow

[mental meadow]

if i play ritual forge in m+ do i use it like a 3 Min Trinket on every other set of cds ?

[dusk stone]

it will be an additive 30% and still be useless

[viscid urchin]

60%??

[keen dome]

I wonder how much Haste is has to give for it to be good

[warm marlin]

Like 15 probably

Or 20

[keen dome]

Damn

[edgy zenith]

I don't think there's a number, does Sub even gain anything from haste?

[dusk stone]

15% or 20% flat

no amount of additive will ever be enough though

[viscid urchin]

it makes us better outside of our dances kekw

[twin quartz]

More shadow techniques

[keen dome]

Yeah, more attack speed for more autos for more shadow techniques

[dusk stone]

what do we even gain from lust

[swift tinsel]

gimme a stack every auto

[dusk stone]

more shadow techniques?

[swift tinsel]

not every 3rd or 4th

[keen dome]

faster stabs

[viscid urchin]

resources

[dusk stone]

lust actually changes our gcd?

[keen dome]

no

[viscid urchin]

it makes rupture tick faster DUH DOY

[dusk stone]

how are the stabs faster

[swift tinsel]

auto attack speed

[dusk stone]

oh that yeah

[keen dome]

yeah, autos

[dusk stone]

there is a blizzard survey going around for m+

[viscid urchin]

it does not, energy classes have a 1s gcd at all times

[dusk stone]

talking about essentially solo queue but not solo queue

[warm marlin]

Lust is a 6% ish gain on a 40 second sim

[keen dome]

Yeah I got it and told them that they should give group leaders the ability to put a hat saying "You fucked it" on players who "fucked it" during pug raids

[warm marlin]

You do scale off haste to some degree it just sucks

[twin quartz]

I’m worried about class tuning that solidifies an m+ meta. It’s pretty diverse right now

[finite sequoia]

in between cds and after bleeds, should i do nothing to let shadow techniques stack up for next cds? i feel like that would be a lot of doing nothing

[viscid urchin]

is sub being better than frost on wcl a meme?

[edgy zenith]

outlaw is taking you out back

[dusk stone]

for what

[viscid urchin]

idk its higher on the god list

for M+

[serene thunder]

question: is running double on-use trinkets (i.e. ritual forge and netherprism) considered standard for subtlety at this point? Or is it still up for debate?

[viscid urchin]

porque?

[edgy zenith]

if you don't have both netherprism AND forge, you shouldn't log into the game

[dusk stone]

it is not no

only for last 2 bosses of raid

[warm marlin]

Prism antenna is the same on most fights

[edgy zenith]

outlaw has energy and has a GCD lower than 1s

[dusk stone]

prism + pacemaker is also super good

[viscid urchin]

from what? just being outlaw?

[edgy zenith]

AR

[viscid urchin]

oh well it doesnt say that anywhere on the tooltip and I dont play the cowboy class

so I was not aware of that

[south kernel]

@swift tinsel HAPTICS OF THE SUB CHANNEL I NEED UR WISDOM

would u even hold a dance for a global or 2 to line it with secret tech during burst?

or is that INT

or if they desync i should go play assa?

[vale widget]

I guess next craft should be neck

[dusk stone]

go get flood neck

[vale widget]

Lily PTSD

[west tide]

im crafting a neck next week too i think

neck and max another tier to 723

i got my infinite rune yesterday who else got one

[karmic harbor]

can we have 3 crafted pieces this week?

[dusk stone]

yeah

[small hemlock]

!trinkets

Nope

[violet palm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[uneven ginkgo]

so am I seniding 1 symbol at a time trying to keep perma uptime or drop 2-3 at once?

cause i didnt read that they stack

danagfe

[lone halo]

How bad are the trinket nerfs

[swift tinsel]

If it’s your flag burst you dance back to back

[karmic harbor]

have you read the wowhead guide? it's pretty good

[south kernel]

and after blades?

when flag is still alive

i hold then yea?

[swift tinsel]

You can fora global or two yeah

[south kernel]

aight appreciate the help

[young thistle]

Anyone got any clue why my tech macro doesn't activate cold blood anymore? It just tells me "spell not learned"
My UI WA also doesn't show it for some reason, but it's definitely skilled and I can use it when put on its own button 🤔

[karmic harbor]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[karmic harbor]

stop playing assassination @young thistle

[rigid delta]

Is there somewhere/someone i can send logs to, to give me feedback on what im doing wrong? I'm hitting green parses and no idea why.

[young thistle]

bruh... -.-
how is this game this broken? wow...
thanks!

[white siren]

is there someone who know how to disable jastor diamond procs on raidbot ?

[signal moth]

how long from 'im a complete noob' to 'im parsing 99s in every boss fight consistently' did it take you on rogue in general? (any xpac)

[karmic harbor]

you can do !log and someone can take a look

[rigid delta]

!log

[rigid delta]

ty

[signal moth]

sometimes you sit on sectech? if you get really good rng and it comes up MAD quick but not in time for flag cds?

[alpine wraith]

yea you sit on it if flag is around 20 secs off cd

[keen trellis]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

• Always cast Coup de Grace when it is ready, regardless of target count.
• Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
• At ALL target counts use Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm.

[keen trellis]

What changed so that we dont BP on 3+ Targets with FW anymore? Also Storm at 3+ when flawless form was up?
Now it is much simpler but just curious

[topaz venture]

what are u guys sending 3rd spark on

for me i think either a ring or neck

[keen trellis]

Same for me

[jagged rover]

I'm crafting neck this week, changing wrists to ele focus, and swapping out my crafted dagger for my 2nd myth loomithar dagger

[lone halo]

Can someone answer a couple questions for me

[alpine wraith]

i crafted shoulders

[lone halo]

1. is it good to try and get ruptures out as mobs are getting grouped like first pull for Arakara or gambit. Or just wait and unload everything

[alpine wraith]

got M neck last week from vault

[honest tinsel]

+4 target during shadowndance, you mean cast black powdwer after shadowstrike?

[lone halo]

!pull

!opener

[jagged rover]

yes, spread ruptures while the pack is being grouped. When you use your cds the ruptures you have out will get the damage increases (you can also start stacking flagellation while grouping before you send shadow blades)

[flint oar]

To answer your actual question, no. That's not how it works. It comes preloaded with the sim APL, except with manual tweaks to make it work. You'd be replacing it with a broken version of itself.

[cedar willow]

so you're asking if it's good to do damage vs not doing damage waiting for mobs to be grouped?

surely you can critical thinking your way through this one

[echo moat]

is a myth track belt with vers/mast better than the DISC belt?

[alpine wraith]

yes

[cedar willow]

usually around 710, but sim

[scarlet gull]

!cd

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 30 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[scarlet gull]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[echo moat]

ty ty, i sim to make sure

[lone halo]

Seems like a logic question. Doesn’t dmg output improve with ruptures, breaking stealth and using energy or does it make more sense to save both of those and go right into the cds. You don’t have to be a dick

[keen trellis]

While Tank is grouping, just rupture and once grouped up, go into CDs

[cedar willow]

im just saying you're asking if it's better to do nothing vs dotting? or maybe I misunderstand the question.

[young roost]

Your question was fine man I asked the same shit the other day especially when pugging

Never know what the tank is gonna do

[lone halo]

2. should I have two counts of shadow dance, ST, and symbols before i start major cds

Or can I start like as the 2nd is coming up?

[cedar willow]

should have shadow dance with 1 charge and roughly 35 seconds

[compact cobalt]

Question for you fine folk - lets assume i'm literally too stupid to remember to backstab as my first builder in shadowdance...how much of a total dps loss are we talking over the course of a fight...am i giga fucking myself?

[lone halo]

Perfect thanks

[cedar willow]

should have symbols with 1 charge and ~10sec left on cd

[edgy zenith]

less than 1%

[shadow lance]

this

[compact cobalt]

Oh thank god. This hypothetical situation my friend is asking about is very relieved.

[cedar willow]

on your other question, and relevant to your rupture question but not for the reason you think: if the tank body pulls and doesnt damage the enemies, and you start rupturing, you will get aggro even if you have tricks up

[lone halo]

Can’t I just wait for both to be 1 stack with 10 seconds? Or is the .35 on SD worth the min max

[karmic harbor]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[cedar willow]

you can, those are "at a minimum" what you need

[karmic harbor]

@compact cobalt this macro helps tbh

[cedar willow]

symbols doesnt get cdr from spending combo points

[lone halo]

Ah ok

[compact cobalt]

that requires me to always enter dance with no combo points though right?

[shadow lance]

Just don't sit on dances charges

[karmic harbor]

You press the keybind again to backstab

[golden totem]

No

[compact cobalt]

ah okay im a dumbass - thank you

[lone halo]

Typically how many times do people get the mini burst, SD, Symbols, and ST alone with out the other CDS

[golden totem]

Not dumb, that's a fair question

[shadow lance]

2

[lone halo]

Like before the CDs are back up

So it’s 2 without and 2 during

[shadow lance]

yes

With sham and 4 set

[lone halo]

You guys are very helpful

Ty

[edgy zenith]

hacha, where is that picture/graphic of the sub rotation, feel like that should be pinned

[cedar willow]

roughly twice between flags

[edgy zenith]

all questions would be answered by that graphic

[cedar willow]

changes if you can farm cdr on large packs of mobs, but twice is usually safe if you have uptime

[shadow lance]

Yes, 2 is the "safe use"

[rigid delta]

When i try a top gear sim specifically for gems, the result tells me to replace the Blasphemite gem, I assume thats wrong and my settings are incorrect?

[runic sinew]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lone halo]

One last question. I’m using Prism and Forge. Are people loading the prism and popping the forge or how exactly are we handling this. In theory I guess you could pop forge and then halfway in to major CDs you could hit Prism?

[shadow lance]

But it depends of uptime, compo, fight profile

[shadow lance]

Forge on first cd, prism on second,, repeat

[edgy zenith]

this guy doesn't know the rotation but has bis trinkets, fucked up world (kidding)

[lone halo]

I’m an outlaw rogue. I’ve decided to take this on.

Sorry I know it’s annoying

[waxen escarp]

using st outside of dance allowed as long as symbols is up? or banned

[shadow lance]

Minimal gain to use sectech no supercharged

A big chance to not have it for dance

So better keep

But if you're sure to get it back, send

[lone halo]

Did the trinket hotfix stuff I saw make a difference for sub on these two trinkets

[waxen escarp]

reeeeeeeee that means i need to practice more

[shadow lance]

No

I mean, why would it make a diff?

[unique nest]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[unique nest]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[edgy zenith]

i'm just fucking with you, no worries. people come in here and ask the same question over and over, that's what a discord is for

[modest river]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rigid delta]

when you say prism on second, do you mean second shadow blades cd?

[honest void]

Yes you alternate

[rigid delta]

Ok thanks, doesn't matter how many stacks you have?

[honest void]

Nah because ull been enough

You just don't want to be sending cds with 0 prism stacks so that's why araz exists

[rigid delta]

Thanks alot 🙂

[plain creek]

I imagine im fine like that with lily aswell?

Got myth from vault, had nothing else to take :/

Didnt wanna socket

Didnt sim it against hero araz, might want to

[sick basin]

Lily is 90sec isn't it?

You wouldn't want to alternate with lily

I would imagine you would go for a passive trink with lily

I mean maybe you still do and I'm just wrong lol

[plain creek]

it sims better, dont think it matters that much tbh

i just treat it as 2 min no?

[sick basin]

It would be 3m

[sleek tide]

For keys is CB better or Tea? Or is it just personal preference

[sick basin]

Because you would alternate so you are losing 50% lily usages

[plain creek]

i mean, hero antenna

sims similar

XD

like 6k difference

might just go for that

to not think about it

or just be a lucky fukk

and get antenna this week

[swift tinsel]

Preference

[sick basin]

Tea is better for AOE no?

[gaunt bluff]

is it possible for cold blood macro to break if i swap specs?

i noticed halfway through the raid today

that it wasnt using my cb at all

[rigid delta]

Yes there is a command for it but cant remember it

Solution is relogging

[plain creek]

ye happened when i swapped from assa to sub

something with fatebound

prob

[gaunt bluff]

yea

[plain creek]

was doing loom as assa

then switched

and it bugged out

[rigid delta]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[gaunt bluff]

same

btw

how many seconds before the first adds spawn on forgeweaver do u guys send flag and cds?

[rigid delta]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[gaunt bluff]

o shit theres a WA

thanks

[rigid delta]

Np

[drowsy moon]

hello

fellow sub friens

shit

I was gonna ask that man

[drowsy moon]

I AM SLOGINT IT

I was freakin out bout this

how bad it is if I dont ever use cold blood

on soul binder

[slate lantern]

Can check lorrgs.io

[burnt ridge]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[dusk stone]

where is raid renown vendor

[mossy zodiac]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[quiet smelt]

do we want more mastery or vers ? cuz i have about the same of each and vers is simming better for me.. talking M+

[serene notch]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/delve-disc-blet-378417

Time to fish your belts out of the trash can

[ionic tinsel]

When I use this macro, the tea never casts. Is there an additional setting I don’t have enabled?

[mossy zodiac]

How i do macro for SecTec a Tea? i copy the shadow dance macro but i want the tea go first, but when i copy the "/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null" have to press 2 times the buttom to active sectec

[iron plover]

What are the good and bad sub dungeons?

[quiet smelt]

whats our best way to sim for m+? im usinng a dungeon route made for a 17 eco.. is that ok ?

[thin ledge]

Any suggestions on an 'ideal' vers % for raid?

[short radish]

whatever raidbots says

[lone halo]

I did try and look through the PINs and Wowhead stuff, didn’t see anything for those scenarios

[hoary lotus]

Why do you have it as a cast sequence

[honest void]

To avoid accidentally using tea more than once

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[errant totem]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[hollow forum]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[rapid stream]

Is it normal to not get a Coup de Grace during the first Shadow Dance, or am I just unlucky?

[solemn creek]

what is the simc command to sim all flask?

!flask

[visual lava]

what power do we use for the belt?

[warm marlin]

@hazy breach the 18 stack nuclear bomb on nexus adds

[swift tinsel]

Lmfao is that like a 78mil peak

[west tide]

what the frick

is that mythic

[warm marlin]

sustained for like 15s

[hazy breach]

https://tenor.com/view/big-aj-big-justice-boom-costco-guys-gif-13543695932005238540

[burnt ridge]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-god-oh-fuck-pizza-meme-blingee-oh-fuck-gif-16911385910897397175

[hazy breach]

Ive been told by various sources that nutting all over those adds instead of having pot+18 stack for the boss amp is considered "padding"

Unfortunately

But for progress its good so you get further into the fight

[warm marlin]

ye we lusting it still for prog

im not entirely sure tho

sending a 0 stack seems int

[hazy breach]

Idk its roughly the same as the double on-users are getting anyway

Or not much lower atleast, since the platform is for 60s

When i compared my natty ones to the public logs

Im checking top logs and most are doing between like 800-950m in the intermission

[hollow creek]

Hey guys, i'm approaching the spec and i was wondering a thing... shuriken toss is like never pressed basically, right? Or do i press it during the dance to gain a stack of dance macabre?

[hazy breach]

Practically never

Only to pull stuff in the opener world

[warm marlin]

its certainly a bit weird without double on use. i was talking with our fdk over if we should double send 18 stack

thing is 9 stack with prism passive in the burn is not that much different from 18 stack with double on use

[hazy breach]

9 stack with passive is stronger than forge send

[ionic tinsel]

Isn’t that what the macro says?

[hazy breach]

But idk im not seeing much difference in logs between double on-users and not

[hollow creek]

oh i see i see, thanks! My brain is hurting trying to learn the spec XD

[hazy breach]

Sims says difference should be like ~5% for a 1 min 6 target

[ripe flame]

I'm starting salad bar prog today and I'm ready to platform pad... I mean I'm ready to make sure those adds die fast

[hazy breach]

But the variance in the spec on those short periods is soo high and people have varying levels of guildies doing varying levels of damage so its

[ripe flame]

(only prism + passive)

[west tide]

i have a mythic antenna heroic forge and lets just imagine a heroic prism

would u still do double on use

[hazy breach]

Id recommend platform padding until you hit enrage with a decent number of people alive or your side has to stop dps because youre killing it too fast

[warm marlin]

idk with 1x on use you have to either omega blast the adds or just do 0 dmg since no trinket in your blades

[west tide]

yeah true

[hazy breach]

the phase is 1 minute though

So its not really 0 damage

[stiff spear]

Is there a way to sim Netherprism usage?

[ripe flame]

would lily make it into the conversation if I don't have a forge?

[warm marlin]

dont think so its kinda bad as 2x on use

[frail kindle]

do you need autumn on mythic dimensius?

[last gate]

when i panic i spam symbol

how to not use more than one at a time

xd

[frail kindle]

!symbols

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[ripe flame]

makes sense, I'll just use 18s on platform and 9 on burn until I get more reps and see how it goes. thanks

[last gate]

thanks

[warm marlin]

eleem will know more weve only seen p3 twice, i just dont have confidence in killing the titan without my prism

[last gate]

in aoe how to apply weaken armor on everyone?

should i use Shuriken storm instead of back stab with the rotten?

[hazy breach]

idk i used to feel the same way and then today we finally had a clean pull and suddenly we were like 15% faster than the other side and had to stop dps

Its just gonna ramp as people get more comfortable and better

[ripe flame]

guildie just got this wonder how much this goes for lmao

[tribal blade]

dude i swear, every single time tanks try to rush going to 2nd boss of halls and don't kill off straggler mobs

and it pulls the 2 slashers into the boss without fail

like

take 5-10 seconds

kill stuff off

then go

[abstract oar]

Thats like easily 5m plus to a sweat

[ionic thorn]

so on loomithar is it even worth it to rupture the tangles?

[swift tinsel]

I don’t even look at anything besides the giant bug ass in front of me

Tell your raid you don’t have cds for them

[tribal blade]

can you shadowstep the tangles

never checked

[ionic thorn]

yea

[tribal blade]

where does it put you

[ionic thorn]

behind them

[tribal blade]

oh dope

[ionic thorn]

only problem is if you get the tether

[short radish]

yeah wait till tether goes out

then step behind first one

and you can cleave onto 2nd

[lilac stag]

Just don’t move for a second and do it after tug

[tribal blade]

mmmm good to know

[sharp schooner]

how to play with double active trinkets ? ( Araz and prism )

• Rotate for Shadow Blades ? First araz than for 2nd SB 18 stack prism ( probably 18 ) ?

[short radish]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[short radish]

so yeah macro together use off cd

[sharp schooner]

But Araz give 34,421 ( 710ilvl ) for 30s and Prism give at 18 stack 58.770 agi

[hazy breach]

Araz loses 1/30 of its agi every second

Its not 34421 across the entire 30 seconds

[earnest canyon]

if we are currenly doing ST, and the second coup from the teir set procs, but we have no energy and like 1 combo point. do we still send coup out since the buff is ending, or do we just get 6cp and evisorate

[hazy breach]

Better to send than to lose it yes

[sharp schooner]

But the macro prio the araz instead prism above

[hazy breach]

Well youre rotating them on every blades right

So araz will be on cd

But you can use it manually too if you'd prefer

[sharp schooner]

i made macro for Blades + trinket 13/14

[lucid jackal]

shouldnt

[idle aurora]

am i supposed to shruiken storm in between coup when not in shadow dance window

[hazy breach]

Sure, but thats the exact same as the one above

[hazy breach]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[sharp schooner]

in raid probably yes,but in keys sometimes im not pressing SB on cd bcs low mob count or tank dont chain etc. .. so if i'm a little late araz will be used.

[idle aurora]

how do i know if 4 set is active

[hazy breach]

Well

[full pike]

did you use a coup and can use another?

[hazy breach]

After you cast coup

[idle aurora]

ohhh yeah ok

[hazy breach]

Well yeah

[young heart]

!sheet

[idle aurora]

sorry i tried outlaw and my brain cant handle it so im coming back to sub

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[idle aurora]

and trying to learn it again lol

[hazy breach]

But thats the same if you were to write it with /use 13 and /use 14 instead

The only way to have that not happen is to have them bound seperately

[covert storm]

u only need 1 bound seperately right

like u can have 1 macrod into blades and press the other just before if u wanna use the other one

[sharp schooner]

i did it.If im correct i'll always use prism with 12 stack ( its give more agi 39,180 ) instead araz ...
Or i just overcomplicate for no reason xd

[short radish]

what about plexus? is it worth begging my hpal for it?

[naive zodiac]

always beg your hpal for autumn

[short radish]

THANKS KING

[hazy breach]

Autumn is always better than no autumn

Very wise

[rancid crow]

I figured out what I was doing wrong. I was holding my cooldowns too long trying to line everything up. I probably over spent a little here, but I did muchhh better damage, and parse like 80% higher https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wJNPDF9RK2qYBrkg?fight=18&type=damage-done&source=9

[short radish]

noice

heroic is typically

just send off cd

maybe wait a second or 2

but fights are so short its usually not worth

if you have MRT/ERT

in the timers section somewhere

there's an estimated time to kill

which is handy to know

so say if flag is coming off cooldown

in 10 seconds

but boss is expected to die in 50 seconds

and your pot is also coming off cd in 20 seconds

you can delay your flag by 10 seconds to line up back with your pot

[rancid crow]

that makes sense

its certainly a learned skill for this spec to manage so many cooldowns

[short radish]

it is but also try not to overcomplicate it

95% of the spec revolves around flag and sectech

aka you sync up to flag

so you watch that CD

[rancid crow]

When you're out of window, when do you stop using sectech so that it can be up for flag?

[short radish]

at 25ish seconds

so when youre not in flag and you're doing your dance + symbols and sectech

[rancid crow]

yeah, that feels so much better lol

than what I was doing before I mean

[short radish]

the most important cd to watch there is sectech

[manic salmon]

sectech sounds so cool

when you shorten it

[short radish]

because if sectech is off cd, 90% of the time everything else will be as well

yeah its a fun word to say

[left ledge]

how the fuck are people sending sectec at 1:27

on nexus king

these guys got shorter cooldowns or something?

[short radish]

#subtlety message

[left ledge]

oh

[rancid crow]

do you always pop tectech with symbols outside of burst window as well? Or is it okay somrtimes to use it without it if you're low on charges?

[manic salmon]

you only pop sectech in dance

with symbols

[short radish]

if youre still starting off - you are better off only sending sectechs with dances and symbol

in a 6 minute fight you maybe send ONE naked sectech/symbols without dance

and if you send it at the wrong time

its not worth it

[manic salmon]

Ye cuz at one point you will have an additional charge of symbols

and no dance charges

[short radish]

going into flag/blades without all your charges set

is despair

[rancid crow]

makes sense. My problem before was I was using too many dances between bursts, and I think I over corrected, so I'm just now finding the balance

[short radish]

yup

[manic salmon]

Ye

[short radish]

rule of thumb it's like

2 dances between flags

but always just watch your flag timer

at 1min its kinda fine to send

at 30 seconds, if you overcap by 5seconds on dance

who cares

[manic salmon]

just keep what fimbul is saying in mind

and play more

[short radish]

yeah

[manic salmon]

and you'll get a better feel for the spec overall

the more you play

[short radish]

sub is CDR based sure

and theres timers to watch

[manic salmon]

the more comfortable youll get with the spec

[short radish]

but they typically happen at the same times

every time

[manic salmon]

Yup

[short radish]

so you get used to when you can send and when you cant

like take frac for example

this is all the casts of symbols and sdance

there's a symbols/dance at 50 seconds

for pretty much all of them

few ones at 40 seconds (one is me because i play by vibes and not guides)

and then there's the optional naked symbols at 1min/1:10ish

but you see how things kinda just align for everyone

unless you get omega scuffed with uptime

[rancid crow]

I see, thats crazy. You'd think it'd vary from person to person

or group

[short radish]

It can vary depending on fight

Soul hunters i think sees a bit more variation

[nova burrow]

!log

[short radish]

But the rule of thumb of "send off cooldown if it doesn't fuck flag" is a pretty good one

[rancid crow]

makes sense

thank you for your help

[plush crescent]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[rancid crow]

this is the trickiest spec I've played so far with a controller, but i've enjoyed it the most

[short radish]

this is a meme

but its also very accurate

also what teh fuck you play with a controller?

thats so cooked

gl

[rancid crow]

yeah, I enjoy playing on my couch lol

[short radish]

kinda based

[rancid crow]

these are my keybinds I stopped playing mouse and keyboard about a year ago, and I don't think I could play this spec with m+kb tbh

I learned it on controller, I'd have to relearn it if I switched

[short radish]

whats shadowstrike

same as backstab bind?

[rancid crow]

yes and no

[short radish]

wait is X jump?

[rancid crow]

yes

[west tide]

sick

got any gameplay vids

[rancid crow]

stealth bar ^

[manic salmon]

watafak

console gamer

holy fuck

what a gigachad

[rancid crow]

so instead of using the !bs macro, I can just press right on dpad twice and get dance + backstab when it switches to stealth bar

[short radish]

surely you rebind X to shadowstrike/backstab

thats such free real estate

how often do you need to jump

[manic salmon]

hahahaha this is so wild to see

i love this

im genuinely in love

[rancid crow]

I can't lose jump lol I have to take my thumb off the movement button to press dpad, so I need a way to preserve movement

[short radish]

whats base circle bound to

[west tide]

so sick dude

[warm marlin]

allocating a precious bind to shuriken toss is crazy

[rancid crow]

evis

[short radish]

isnt that square

nvm im blind

[west tide]

one day when wow goes to consoles u gotta make a right up for people who want to play with controller and tips and tricks

[rancid crow]

L2 is my shift modifier, I use it for buffs and aoe lol

I've actually considered writing a guide on how I set console wow up

I have auto camera angles and everything

[west tide]

you should!!

[rancid crow]

it zooms in and out or recenters depending on what I 'm doing or where I'm at

heres a little example of how my dynamiccam is setup

[short radish]

so opener is

R2 -> R1 -> square -> L2 Left -> left -> triangle + right -> R2 -> square

[rancid crow]

almost, you got the first part down.

Its R2 > R1 > Square > Leftpad > Uppad > Leftpad > Rightpad > Triangle

I don't use modifiers for my core rotation usually, unless I have to

[short radish]

oh right because non stealth your dance is just left without any modifiers

[rancid crow]

if you notice, L2 + X/O/Square/Triangle are all defensives, so if I really get in to trouble on most characters, I just hold L2 and button mash those face buttons

[rancid crow]

exactly

A lot of thought goes into it, but it lets me play on the tv so its worth it for me

[quiet wedge]

can someone take a look at my logs and provide feedback on why im so shit? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DvrkZcx1GP9CTAjV?fight=6&type=damage-done&source=66 greatly appreciated.

[short radish]

honestly if a console gamer can get 90

people don't have any excuse

[rancid crow]

thats such a huge compliment 😭

tysm

[short radish]

ye you've improved hugely

noice work mate

[rancid crow]

ty ty :3

MUch better than the 4 I parsed last week

[short radish]

[edgy zenith]

does feint work on loomithar beams?

[short radish]

look at your 1:30 flag and see if you can spot what you missed

[short radish]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aaBz5vC3VauxnXqY5q0zxOpFXwhPXaHvYe3VpWLAta0/edit?gid=0#gid=0

dont think so

wait nvm that only says atrohpic

but i still dont think so

its not aoe

THEN AGAIN FEINT WORKS ON FRAC DOT SO WHAT THE FUCK DO I KNOW

[wicked urchin]

still having no prism feels like such ass

[short radish]

F

[wicked urchin]

just like last tier with pvp trinket until dinars came out

[quiet wedge]

no dance?

[short radish]

bingo bingo

youve kinda fucked up your flag window every time except the opener i think

well your 3min might be okay

but your 4:40 is definitely scuffed

[gilded ferry]

thats the only reason?

[short radish]

and so is your 6:15

there are many things wrong with this

[gilded ferry]

does anyone else experience a shift in ST at somepoint?

like, having dance and having to wait for a symbols?

[short radish]

only if you send naked symbols

it's kinda weird

[open vortex]

it does

just checked my log

[short radish]

fuck this game lmao

[open vortex]

amen lmao

[short radish]

it feels if you send a naked symbols then you have a random dance at like 3:30ish where you are waiting on symbols cd

but if you dont send a naked symbols then have too much symbols

[grand viper]

do we send prism on every blade? even the first?

[gilded ferry]

but is it wrong to send a naked symbols?

[rancid crow]

pretty much, yeah. I have always preferred console gaming to pc gaming, plus my chair isn't the most comfortable

I still love wow though, so I just took it with me to the living room

[short radish]

not if it doesnt mess up your flag window

[gilded ferry]

are u available for a quick log check? im joining a fresh just to test out the rotation

[short radish]

do a !log and post a ST boss fight

i dont have the brainpower to look at adds

[gilded ferry]

should be just the first boss

[short radish]

ye thats fine

[gilded ferry]

!log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rG3MpcqtN849BFjY?fight=3&type=damage-done&source=13

[rocky sparrow]

guys, antena netherprism or araz netherprism? what is better overall?

[west tide]

are these gonna be new dps ones

[waxen escarp]

s i m although if equalish i'd personally go antenna

because my brain doesnt like double use

[signal moth]

what is the dps loss if i just never use bp regardless of player count, anyway ran apl where you just delete bp?

[short radish]

!coldblood

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[atomic girder]

can a pro help me out here
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YF68LNgRZP7n1jWm?fight=26&type=casts&source=159&view=events

[left ledge]

holy fk

autumn is op for nexus king

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[gilded ferry]

do we have like

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[gilded ferry]

oh we do

[storm cloak]

is anyone having issues with being bugged on nexus king?

i'm missing all my attacks, i cant do the ghosts cause nothing is registering

[icy mulch]

relog

If boss despawns when you're MC'd it bugs out sometimes or something

[steel jolt]

https://www.twitch.tv/babybrainlock/clip/SparklingHelpfulDiamondKeepo-hxfq0HnqqCXVOnTV?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

[storm cloak]

ya this is happening

ive logged out, left raid, idk what else to do

LOL im just logged out out of the raid in dorn

[steel jolt]

raid is giga bugged

we had people release and get stuck behind trash near Saladbar and have no way to get back to where the rest of the raid was

[storm cloak]

small indie company

[steel horizon]

what happens if we shadowstep the wall break from fractillus?

[short radish]

you land in front of him

[steel horizon]

like before our character hits the wall. does it still count as a break?

or does it fuck the mechanic up

[short radish]

it should

or else i've been fucking it up for the raid the entire time

[steel horizon]

lmao

[short radish]

but i was doing that all mythic prog

so i think it's okay

[steel horizon]

kk gonna start stepping that wall break

we just started fract today so im not sure

[short radish]

make sure you step when the cast bar is finished/you start moving

[copper linden]

Is it correct or incorrect to send two Sec Techs in a singular dance window with Last Dance? Seems like some people do and some people dont on lorrgs

[swift tinsel]

sometimes you can, sometime you can't

[gleaming locust]

should we hold CDs for damage amp on saladbar?

[short radish]

send off cd

if you always send off cd

flag comes up like 5 seconds into amp

[lucid jackal]

on mythic it just lines up

[warm marlin]

@hazy breach u are correct

the pad is illegal

[short radish]

[warm marlin]

which therefore means double on use is pad 🧠

[short radish]

are you using double on use or prism + passive?

i think my forge dreams are over

[warm marlin]

my guild has seen 1 normal forge and 2 in a tank/healers vault

[short radish]

and im wondering if i take mythic lily

[warm marlin]

also have mythic antenna

so we are gaming

[short radish]

true

im just a leechy pacemaker

[raw wadi]

You can also ask hpal to do autum at 00:45 (like nothing happens at that point).
You will have faster second set of CDs->earlier Plattform->full amp time

It makes it also easier to play 3 spirits because your flag window is over at that point

[short radish]

yeah im begging my hpal for autumn

[warm marlin]

yall arent running hpriest over hpal?

[short radish]

got permission from exile to beg

[warm marlin]

crazy

[short radish]

they're in poland

[raw wadi]

Tonight we did both

[short radish]

also yeah i think we have both

[warm marlin]

i dont have an hpal to beg unlucky

it is what it is

[raw wadi]

I asked ours nicely and he made it possible

Also the same for dimensius

[short radish]

no forge, no autumn no bitches why even raid

[warm marlin]

true

[short radish]

is it needed for dimmy as well?

[warm marlin]

i dont think you hard need autumn though

[raw wadi]

I shouldn't share my last two vaults

[warm marlin]

its not that bad

[short radish]

someone linked this on the most recent reset

[warm marlin]

you always get a full cast on the platform and if your raid holds dps on the titans you only miss first 5s

[raw wadi]

Ehm not sure yet... Getting it at 00:45 makes it easier to start second burst.

Okay wait @short radish

[short radish]

meanwhile im a SAD gamer

[raw wadi]

I can beat that

[open vortex]

[short radish]

fuck you

[open vortex]

🫃

[short radish]

i hope you step in a puddle wearing nothing but socks

[open vortex]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-step-up-water-head-spin-gif-15717027

[raw wadi]

@short radish last week

This week

[open vortex]

ya im beat

[raw wadi]

Yeah you got more trinkets

But i beat you on ivl @open vortex

[open vortex]

[raw wadi]

@short radish are you alive?

[short radish]

expect a pipe bomb in the mail

i hope it was worth it

its fine

this will be my vault next week

and i will have to pick between mythic prism and mythic forge

[raw wadi]

And boots!

Nah prism, antenna, forge

[short radish]

[raw wadi]

Triforce

[short radish]

tbh i think i'd pick the forge

[raw wadi]

Yes makes things was easier

[short radish]

antenna sounds exhausting

i just want to blast

and not think

far out do i acutally run a lily + prism

[raw wadi]

Nah got it on my evoker... It's just don't care (maybe before 2 engulfs I collect balls)

[fluid forge]

Is there anyone can help me to learn sub and i can give him gold in wow

[fluid forge]

Thank you

[steel jolt]

people will help you for free too, but your choice

[short radish]

to a certain extent

[raw wadi]

And you should start with @fluid forge

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[warm marlin]

running around doing beams, soak, spirits, and soaking my antenna orbs during 2nd flag on nexus

[raw wadi]

And facing spirits!

[short radish]

yeah thats not a life i want to live

[raw wadi]

But antenna is strong tbf

[warm marlin]

its double fun when you're trying to look for coup late resets as well

very sick

[slate lantern]

Coaching on sub: "go do the opener on dummies for 3 hours and stop sending shit all the time in between" bam that's all you need to know

[short radish]

play on vibes not on guides

[raw wadi]

dw i was a murloc in today's kill and used feint... Used it again and was wondering why nothing happened. I was so brain freezed and sitting on top of the tank soak -> dead.

Fuckin murloc toy

[short radish]

wait

murloc toy?

[raw wadi]

Yeah the one from the shop

[short radish]

oh

its not something you can cast on your raiders

[raw wadi]

Magical murkmorpher

But i was kinda addicted and touched it

[short radish]

do not touch the murloc

[manic sierra]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[signal moth]

can someone look at this because I am doing such low dps compared to where I think I should be https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pQMkB8PgbdKLXZnF?fight=last&type=damage-done

!log

[pearl swan]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brave elbow]

Say you have a group of 6 targets stacked and you are using trickster sub rogue. What should your combo point generator be? Is it you just sometimes weave in shuriken storm to keep up aoe weaken and using backstab and ambush otherwise or should I be using shuriken storm more than that?

I feel like because of the 2 and 4 set it should be mostly back stab and ambush

[short radish]

shadowstrike in dance

[grizzled thorn]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[short radish]

my feelycraft says at 6 targets you shuriken storm

but also press backstab if you havent backstabbed in a while

but also also its kinda whatever because youre not in dance

[brave elbow]

hmm this tiers set has kind of complicated Sub aoe rotation. Not a problem I just wish I had a bit more of a definitive game plan.

[lucid jackal]

Its not really

[brave elbow]

and I should be using black powder aoe wise correct?

[lucid jackal]

4 targets BP is your main finisher yeah

[brave elbow]

I said it has made things more complicated not that they are actually complicated if that makes sense.

[jagged rover]

4 target bp. in dances build with shadowstrike. outside dances at 3+ targets use shuriken storm

[brave elbow]

thank you very much.

[jagged rover]

not much more complicated than that

[brave elbow]

Well thank you all of you I'll make sure to implement this I hope to see an improvement numbers wise.

[rancid crow]

Much better week for me 😻

[short radish]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[short radish]

@brave elbow get the target in range tracker

if number >= 4 press BP instead of evis

[lilac stag]

You need more definitive than this?

Reading a guiding instead of feeling it out does wonders

[open mason]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[plush roost]

On saladbar platforms if u get targetted by massacre during cds do u just cry

or will cloaking it be fine

[brave elbow]

Anyone know if the Night Elf potion is a damage increase?

[frank cloud]

crying helps

[brave elbow]

ooh thank you

[brave elbow]

no that'll do thank you

[lilac stag]

Shockingly it’s straight from a guide.

[maiden oar]

cloak works

[plush roost]

mmk just didnt want to grief it

[proper stone]

Is there a bug when searching logs that shadow dance doesn’t show, does on m+ keys but noticing raid doesn’t??

Eg: (not my char)
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QpBXbYn1zRcmMay8?fight=2&type=damage-done&source=9&view=timeline

[shrewd lantern]

someone confirm for me

can the 2p UB proc trigger off itself

[kind river]

kinda glad this raid has sort of forced my hand on learning sub, this spec is actually more fun than I gave it credit for as an outsider

my practice is starting to pay off a little, cleaned out a 10 floodgate

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/938601894736191499/1413019042528366712/image.png?ex=68ba6808&is=68b91688&hm=cd1333c796328c7576f7635138c2b67d81b2f5b41ae288236dd3d84055958298&

[autumn glade]

What’re you looking for? You linked a log looking at damage done, of course shadow dance doesn’t pop up there. Change it to buffs or casts.

[kind river]

my heroic dimensius damage on reclear this week was pretty bad though, need to see when people are popping off - probably look at lorrgs later

[swift tinsel]

As in you get three or more stacks from one cast?

It could with the previous iteration but to my knowledge the current 2pc does not

[shrewd lantern]

can the UB proc

trigger another UB

[swift tinsel]

I’ve never seen three

On live or ptr

[spring pumice]

Anyone that could help me out with some logs and tell me the biggest things i need to work on? This is the first season i play rogue since being a mech bot on guldan in nighthold and it's been a lot rougher performance wise than other seasons (i usually pick what my guild needs and have swapped classes/spec almost every tier). Green parsing so there's definitely a lot wrong with my cd management/rotation during cd's, though I feel like i theoretically "know" what to press by looking at the guides etc.

[tribal blade]

what's the best exact timing to send cds on araz so CB sectec hits the adds

[chrome palm]

Flag when portal first appears

[spring elm]

does anyone else take numbing over atrophic for keys

[austere zodiac]

is there numbers on the cold blooded optimization for this tier

[icy mulch]

still better to use it on 2nd sec tech

cause flawless form stacks

[untold bone]

!embellishment

[jagged hamlet]

Post your logs in a thread or view the threads of other people getting log help. Basically free coaching.

[tribal blade]

we're doing a strat where we take some add sets behind the portals

which makes it mega awkward if i have to drop adds

[chrome palm]

yeah youre gonna lose globals

my guild did this as well