subtlety

[turbid edge]

Got em

[cloud rover]

Ye Flawless Transcation

[keen dome]

Well fuck now i've gotta add that to my list of content to do.

[final wasp]

I finished hardmode, but we died on colorboss because who the fuck needs to interrupt amirite bois

[runic trail]

Damn, he got it done on the 9th January

[cloud rover]

I mean you can do it with turbo boost

will be much easier

[keen dome]

I'll just do it during turbo boost

Yeah

[cloud rover]

Imo

[keen dome]

I did 2/8M in a pug in week 3 I'm retiring

[cloud rover]

Taszavesh Harmode Deathless giving myth track

[final wasp]

Ill turboboost deez nuts

[cloud rover]

is kinda toxic for the game

and shouldnt exist

[keen dome]

I think it's a good experiment, but it is a little bit dangerous

[tribal blade]

oh yeah it shows stupid american date lol

[final wasp]

The items sucking fat dookie makes it forgivable

[cloud rover]

Well yeah but still toxic af, if one guy does a mistake or gets a dc its over for everyone

[keen dome]

I'm just gonna do it with a Prot Pal, 3 Sub rogues, and a Shaman healer

[runic trail]

I just refuse to hardmode, it sounds like it'll get toxic as fuck

[final wasp]

Unlucky, get better gamerfriends

[keen dome]

Yeah. I do think it'd be better if it was a personal thing (but then you'd have people just leave if they failed so)

[final wasp]

We are never bringing chad again

[keen dome]

It's completely unpuggable in the conventional sense of pugging, which I think is fine.

[tribal blade]

it's not a good system, very toxic

[final wasp]

Because chad fucked us that one time

fwiw, Im memeing, hardmode is fine as is and I dont mind it

[keen dome]

It's gonna become very easy to do in a few weeks too

'easy' in relative terms anyway

[runic trail]

I just don't like m+ and hardmode feels like my issues with m+ but amplified

[tribal blade]

it has no timer though

[final wasp]

YEAH WELL I MEAN

[keen dome]

You can just take Hardmode extremely slow

[tribal blade]

which makes it really different

[keen dome]

Get 18 netherprism stacks each boss...

[final wasp]

if you already dont like dungeons in that format, its kind of a given

[tribal blade]

yeah you can 18 stack prism

swap talents

drop a turnip and farm stacks

wait for lust

[keen dome]

Yeah

[cloud rover]

I mean being responsible for your own Myth track would be better

[keen dome]

Absolutely

[tribal blade]

i think it should have given 1 myth track piece for the entire season

[cloud rover]

but as you said, it would be a guild thing

[keen dome]

It'd feel better with buddies if one makes a mistake. Well rip HIS drop but he's still gonna, hopefully, do it for his comrades

[tribal blade]

tied to the achieve

[final wasp]

Hopefully doing alot of lifting in that sentence bud

[cloud rover]

tldr for me: I hope this never comes back

[runic trail]

This means spending more time in dungeons, I already gotta do 8 10s a week and I hate it

In my perfect world I raidlog

[vale pine]

classic

[cloud rover]

Worst thing is even if you wait like for BL for every Boss

and wipe at Dragon

[keen dome]

Yeah..

[cloud rover]

you wasted like 60-70 Minutes

For nothing

[keen dome]

No, no.

You didn't waste it.

You spent time developing trauma

[cloud rover]

Yes true

[final wasp]

Im doing that my whole life what you mean

[runic trail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1124996137359786075/1411372249335861318/image.png?ex=68b7b616&is=68b66496&hm=e3b21d4e20803ee098a6c5f0c471bdd46205963aee88e6e81363763728214bd4&

Imagine even attempting the dragon

[keen dome]

Gambit legit such a chill key imo

[runic trail]

I'm not doing it just because it amuses me at this point

[final wasp]

I still need the mount from gambit

[turbid edge]

That happened in my run. Tank missed kick and procced my cheat but no official death

[runic trail]

Best thing is I don't even need the portal, the ecodome portal works fine

[keen dome]

Haha true

[cloud rover]

Also the Taszavesh portal brings you to shadowlands

[cursive vapor]

every key is a chill key, but only if the key is chill

[keen dome]

Ara is never chill

[cursive vapor]

that means ara is not a chill key

[vale pine]

yep

[keen dome]

Bricked quite a few 12/13 Ara's yesterday.

Then finally got it done and now I will never run it again

[vale pine]

haha

i also don't like ara

[cursive vapor]

ye ara is not fun

[cloud rover]

Worst key for me is Dawnbreaker

Horrible Dungeon

[cursive vapor]

gambit is chill, eco is hella chill, uuuhhmm

[runic trail]

Dawn is pretty alright assuming your pug doesn't faceplant on the first boss

[vale pine]

^

[runic trail]

...or falls through the boat

[short radish]

Boats*

[marble comet]

on 5 dummys i do more dps if i spam shuriken storm into Eviscerate then shurikenstorm into black powder (no cds just with nimble flurry applied) is this right??

[turbid edge]

1. do i have to track find weakness on my platers?
2. if i get coup outside of dance, do i hold it until i'm in dance, or do i want the flawless stacks for when i'm in dance?

[vale pine]

1 - no
2 - you don't hold coup usually, you can hold it for a small amount of time beofre flagellaiton/shadow blades (at max 20 sec)

[split garden]

u can use a bp to smuggle a coup into cds right?

like 1

[limpid sage]

sounds like you're doing something funky

are you skipping the coup casts when doing storm -> bp?

[turbid edge]

how much dps is good for 1 min on the target dummies (5 targets)?

[rustic mortar]

So when I'm in dance and i only get 5 CPs from SS do i Evi or do i SS again and then evi ?

[alpine wraith]

ss again

[cursive island]

Some of you have delay between Coup CP refund ?? That's so annoying, i'm often sending builder for nothing

[alpine wraith]

yea coup can refund instantly at 0.4 or 1 sec

enjoy

[cursive island]

Mehhh

[rustic mortar]

Also when i'm about to dropt out of dance @alpine wraith ?

[alpine wraith]

yes

[rustic mortar]

same appliys to coupe ?

[alpine wraith]

coup would do dmg outside dance anyway

[rustic mortar]

so just SS again

[limpid sage]

if you have 2 globals left and know you won't have energy for another builder into finisher it's best to do finisher into builder

[alpine wraith]

most of the time our last global is like when dance has 0.x secs left

[turbid edge]

ty fuu - i'm using your WA's - does something there track shadowcraft stuff?

[marble comet]

ye i just wanted to spam shuriken into blackpowder vs shuriken into evisc

[limpid sage]

ohhh you don't have flawless form up either?

just spamming those 2?

but that would make bp spam stronger

I'm confused

[marble comet]

i applied nimble flurry in both cases

[vale pine]

i don't track shadowcraft, but if you want you can use the sound weakaura to know when you get refunds easier

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[vale pine]

^ its also part of the command

[limpid sage]

ah okay then the diff is probably just that you get coup procs

it's not that big a difference between evis and bp spam

but if you completely neglect coup when bp spamming and benefit from it when evis spamming then evis is obv stronger

since you're benefitting from the 4-set

[finite sequoia]

guys, what rogue spells are off gcd? im playing on NA with 130 ping and i cant tell if stuff are on gcd or not or if its just the lag

[vale pine]

shadow dance, shadow blades, symbols of death, thistle tea, cold blood

[finite sequoia]

hmm ok, sometimes when i press sdance/symbols then backstab the backstab doesn't immediately register

so i thought symbols might've been on gcd

guess it's just lag

[short delta]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[short delta]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[marble comet]

ok thx for your help ❤️

[hollow spear]

People seem to just throw coup into the same category as evis

It's sectec > coup > bp > evis if you have 4+ targets

(terms and conditions apply)

If you mindlessly bp spam without using your coup, you're pissing away all the damage you get from 4p

[vale pine]

evis is the same button so its a bit confusing

but yes, you need to be careful to still use coup in aoe

[astral axle]

besides you get to go swish swoosh swiiiiiish

why deny yourself that

[short delta]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[cursive vapor]

well if coup is up you dont have evis, its coup then

[astral axle]

for any reason

[feral knot]

Swish swoosh swish it is

[turbid edge]

i have that one - it makes a sound when i get a refund but dont i want to know if i get one before it happens?

[scarlet oyster]

I don't understand why in aoe we do :

• SD > symbol > backstab > sectech > shadowstrike > BP > shadowstrike > BP

and not:

• SD > symbol > backstab > sectech > shuriken storm > BP > shadowstrike > BP

it would give one more danse macabre stack earlier am I wrong ?

[vale pine]

not rly

you only react to them, not play around them

[vale pine]

because of nimble flurry

[gusty depot]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[vale pine]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[short delta]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[scarlet oyster]

one shadowstrike with flawless form deals more damages than 6% bonus damages for the next few gcd ? (depending on procs)

[hollow spear]

Shuriken storm simply doesn't do damage

And shadowstrike does a lot of damage

[scarlet oyster]

yes but it gives 6% overall damages during SD with dance macabre

[hollow spear]

Pretty simple

[short radish]

math says its not worth

[wispy echo]

do we bp at 5 targets with ff or evis for nimble cleave?

[warped gust]

can sonone teach me sub rouge in a 1-1 coaching session on voice please ?

[scarlet oyster]

okok got it

[short radish]

my feelycraft says it is though 🤡

[hollow spear]

So? SD doesn't last half a minute

[scarlet oyster]

im surprised it is not

[short radish]

how much you paying?

[hollow spear]

Get outta here Fimbul

[junior light]

Has anyone tried to import a simc to hekili for a better rotation? Sorry for this question im new to rogue and trying to learn

[short radish]

dont use hekili

sub is acutally not as complicated as people think

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[vale pine]

it can also proc unseen blades, but yes, strike does damage while storm does not

[hollow spear]

You won't learn if you use hekili is the issue

[short radish]

the rotation page on wowhead has the sequence that you need to press every time

[warped gust]

can pay with gold if needed

[scarlet oyster]

the first SD after out of combat is quite long still, with backstab / shadowstrike prolongations

[hollow spear]

You don't get longer dances

[junior light]

I check fuu wowhead

[hollow spear]

Only symbols works that way

And we already use backstab which doesn't do damage

[indigo current]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQPIxEHtV8I

do you guys know what wa is this?

that shows key info like %\

[short radish]

its an addon

[indigo current]

can you give me a name?>

[short radish]

maybe

wait

no

its a wa

[turbid edge]

i dont know that one, but i use WarpDeplete

[indigo current]

🙂

[short radish]

or maybe its both

[indigo current]

ill check it out

ty

[short radish]

https://wago.io/M+Timer/137

also look up angry keystone

as an addon

[indigo current]

thats exactly it

thanks

[short radish]

np

[indigo current]

curseforge is updating

but will do

[short radish]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/angry-keystones

i forgot exactly why i have it tbh

since im pretty sure the WA does the same job

[indigo current]

ye i chekced it out now

and the wa looks more clean imo

[short radish]

Auto Gossip
During Mythic Keystone dungeons it will automatically select gossip entries for you. For example for starting Odyn and his trash, and Court of Stars buff objects.

wait

the WA does that also

[indigo current]

xdd

[short radish]

maybe its really really redundant now

i think i used to have it for !keys

to list it in party

[turbid edge]

for 2nd dance in shadowblades, do i need to wait for 1st dance to officially end, or can they overlap?

[short radish]

but bigwigs does that

[short radish]

you cant dance while in dance

[turbid edge]

oh

[indigo current]

just use next one when the first one is expiring

[short radish]

you can press it right after

but the first dance (not the talent) needs to end before you begin your 2nd

[warped gust]

anyone got WA to track buffs on sub rouge ?

[short radish]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[feral knot]

NA vault when

[short radish]

6 hours

[warped gust]

whats best pacl ?

pack ?

[short radish]

whatever looks most visually appealing to you

i run luxthos because i play a few different classes

so its nice to keep consistency

[final wasp]

Thats like asking whats the best cereal, and there are weird people out there eating cereal with raisins in it

[short radish]

its nutritious

[vale pine]

could be worse, you could microwave your cereals

[warped gust]

anyone fancy teaching me sub for gold ?

[split garden]

Do u guys flag before u spread some ruptures in m+?

[vale pine]

towards the topic, there is no "Best", all of them have the core things you need. Some track additional stuff and all will be visually diffrent

[mossy karma]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[vale pine]

the best weakaura setup is usually a frankenstein which suits your preferences

[short radish]

could probably message guy

i'd offer to do it but i'm in a kinda cbf mood atm

[past cobalt]

I just use Zac cause I played Outlaw before

[mossy karma]

was there a macro for CB with sectec?

[vale pine]

you can do that

its just /cast cold blood /cast Secret techniqueBUT
if you do that, make sure to have a 2nd bind without cold blood to be able to optimize the use

because cold blood is used 2nd secret technique during shadow blades/flagellation

[junior light]

Which sub spec is the best? I’ve seen couple of them for m+

[vale pine]

subtlety is the best subtley spec

[feral knot]

by far

[vale pine]

i assume you ask how all 3 compare in m+, assassiantion has some dungeons it is better at and subtlety has a few so play what you like more or both ^^

[tulip gorge]

maybe he meant which build

[vale pine]

you can't rly go that wrong with builds, can take it from high r.io rogues or one of the guides and be fine

[feral knot]

which dungeons is assa better? i would like to play both specs

[runic trail]

I'm taking gloomblade and goremaws to see how wrong I can make a build out of spite now

[vale pine]

XD

i mean you can do stuff like

[split garden]

Do they have different strengths and weakness from each other ?

[past cobalt]

Im just trying the Rotten build now

[warped gust]

anyone coach me for gold ? new to sub

[dusk stone]

is there an addon or a feature that allows solely tab target between casters?

[past cobalt]

Sims keep telling me to go CB in dungeonslice but idk

[vale pine]

this

like

this would be rly bad

[past cobalt]

Bet

[vale pine]

no shadowblades/flagellation/secret technique/danse macabre

[coral wedge]

A challenge has been presented, who's up to the task

[plucky parrot]

I think I threw up in my mouth

[warped gust]

my challenege ?

[feral knot]

the real hard mode

[vale pine]

it uses pv and warning sighn

[junior light]

Oh shit what i wrote 🙃

[vale pine]

haha

[vale pine]

cb and tea are close, so you can do both and be fine

[junior light]

I meant talents. I’ve seen 3 different ones

[coral wedge]

fuu's nightmare build rather 🙂

[remote shuttle]

I Just don't like tea autocast so i stay with cb... Also no more rotten likes a lil bit more crit to better apply fw

[final wasp]

Someone said a no-no word

[fossil forge]

Fuark

[fossil forge]

This looks so bad i want to try it

[runic trail]

And it wasn't even me this time

[hollow spear]

I saw you run this build

[plucky parrot]

there should be a break the meta but for scuffed builds instead of specs

I need a reason to play this demon shit

[hollow spear]

Maybe if you want to get kicked from a +5 pug?

[runic trail]

Imagine needing a bad build to get kicked from a +5

WEAK

[hollow spear]

Speak for yourself

I am not even getting invites for a +5

[slate marlin]

Its already late enough in the season (week 3) that a +5 is legit harder to time than a 15

[graceful osprey]

You know…at this point, I’m thinking, why is SB a talent anyways?

[vale pine]

i think it would be fun for one of the streamers

to make a challange on how bad they can make the talent builds on each spec

and then have to play a +10 or so with a group of "worse builds"

[warped gust]

can anyone coach me in sub rouge please in a discord voice ? stuggling

[final wasp]

Repeatedly asking is not cute

[split garden]

Showed up to the last boss of a floodgate 9 today with 65% trash. It was an experience

[cursive vapor]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[vale pine]

think he specifically asks because he does not want to read ^^

[mint swift]

Can someone offer me reading classes please? Will pay in gold

[warped gust]

i dont do well with guides i learn more from listening and doing ^

[mint swift]

Either that or make the sub rogue guide an audiobook

[cursive vapor]

hm well some of the greens and you shadowblades do coach right?

[warped gust]

dyslexic

[slate marlin]

There are some guides in youtube

shindigg has one

[warped gust]

struggle to read so thanks ^

[hollow spear]

the red name checks out

[mint swift]

Tbf I understand this part, like most hunters I can’t read

But I think you asking over and over is what’s annoying folk

[hollow spear]

Watch shindigs video

That's as good as it gets for free content

[final wasp]

Coaching in general is not a service we provide, people doing it out of kindness of their heart is still not something to spam public channels about

[warped gust]

thankyou

[hollow spear]

There are people who coach, but they do it for money

Which is totally valid of course

[vale pine]

i think its mostly about filtering information

[runic trail]

I'll coach but the advice I give will be incorrect and I only accept payment in skittles.

[vale pine]

e.g. this text chat is also reading

and still, people who dm me or get advise here

[mint swift]

I don’t play subtly but I can coach I guess

I think you wanna press the buttons that do the most damage

[vale pine]

are people who would say they need video/audio to comprehend

[mint swift]

Idk
Press black powder or some shit
That will be £30

[turbid edge]

is blades after sectech the optimized rotation, or blades before sectech?

[hollow spear]

"press shadow dance on cooldown" - discombobulatedgoat

[runic trail]

Who leaked my private proprietary coaching guide, I was gonna get so many skittles from that

[mint swift]

Me

[cursive vapor]

just press right buttons at the right time, ty for your money

[hollow spear]

doesnt make a difference

[runic trail]

"Have you heard about goremaws? Good talent"

[vale pine]

so i think the part that sticks out for me as important in learning is just to be able to have interaction

[hollow spear]

there's a higher chance to mess up blades after sectec though

[feral knot]

ask chatgpt to dictate the wowhead guide to you

[vale pine]

so in the end i would suggest just asking questions on things that are unclear

[mint swift]

Have your coach be your sugar daddy

[vale pine]

haha

[hollow spear]

"ChatGPT, read the wowhead guide to me with Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice"

[mint swift]

“Hey chat gpt, make me a subtly build”

[keen dome]

I want some skittles now

[mint swift]

That would acc be pretty funny

[hollow spear]

needs to be authentically Austrian

[short radish]

oh boy do i have a dungeon route for you

[keen dome]

"Alright so you want to use Goremaws...."

[mint swift]

I wanna see what it says now XD

[runic trail]

They're mine

[mint swift]

“Why is your dps so low”

“Chatgpt told me to play this”

[vale pine]

"goremaws will be back"

haha

(it won't, its bad)

[vagrant thorn]

I had it explain the sub rotation to me and it was amazing actually (grok 4), it really knew its stuff and it was current and accurate 😛

[mint swift]

Elon get back to your main account

[vagrant thorn]

looool

[feral knot]

chatgpt build #subtlety message

[vale pine]

XD please don't

[vagrant thorn]

oh yeah? now I'm actually gonna go look at history and paste it here

[keen dome]

Ais suck

I'm going to fight the computer

[mint swift]

True

[turbid edge]

if i have coup available with dance/symbols, is it preferred to use coup outside of dance or within dance?

[short radish]

https://jpst.it/4yp1s

[final wasp]

They make great animefeet pics when quake doesnt supply them

[hollow spear]

I have the truth:

[dusk stone]

is there any setting or addon to make tab prioritize caster mobs?

[turbid edge]

i figured id want the flawless stacks for my dance, so i'm guessing i use before dance and then do a big sectech within dance with bp's?

[reef walrus]

is this finally a build where deathstalker could be better than trickster?!

[keen dome]

they have no sole

[mint swift]

“Uhm ashktually generatvie AI ish the bwad Ai, not A-wai in gwenewal 👆 🤓 “

[final wasp]

Thats standard, tabtarget has some weird prio for casting mobs,not casters in general

[vale pine]

oh yes absolutely

if you use this build vs. a regular detahstalker build

[keen dome]

lmfao

[final wasp]

But, its also not something you can manipulate with macros or weakauras, unluck go next

[hollow spear]

We sectec first finisher in dance and the do double coup

[vale pine]

it will be crushed

[keen dome]

A route so cursed it lagged MDT out

[reef walrus]

deathstalker confirmed good, respeccing right now

(for legal reasons this is a joke)

[dusk stone]

wait so if i get every rogue in the game to use the cursed build i can finally play deathstalker?

[vale pine]

so what you are saying is, we need a programmable targeting addon?

[hollow spear]

fuu recommends deathstalker if you dm him for the secret sauce

[dusk stone]

so youre saying there is a chance

[final wasp]

[hollow spear]

he is withholding the actual best dps build from us

[vale pine]

btw. i get nightmares

of the daily updates of auraupdater

can't wait for that to be removed/banned

[dusk stone]

its very hit or miss

i find it either does it well or not at all

so there's no addon or anything because the game doesnt allow it?

[final wasp]

Works well for me personally, it just sometimes tabs to a dumbfuck mob that is casting, but not the one I want to kick

[dusk stone]

its great 60% of the time

[final wasp]

The game doesnt allow it, and it would be too complicated to implement practically

[dusk stone]

then it tabs blue targets

there's some weird target prio with cvars you can do according to goole

google

but i know nothing of what that means

[mint swift]

Should have given this route to the bear tank earlier

[turbid edge]

ok so if i have sectech, symbols, and dance up, and coup procs, i do this?

• dance, bs, coup, storm, coup, strike, symbols, sectech?

[keen dome]

Agreed

[dusk stone]

"you can improve your targeting by adjusting the game's built-in CVar settings to prioritize casting enemies"

according to google

[fossil forge]

I update that fucker 5min b4 raid and somehow im 20 versions behind?

[final wasp]

According to google ai or some dumb site that doesnt know what its talking about

[dusk stone]

" /console TargetPriorityCombatLock 2"

is what is saying does it

[fossil forge]

KEK

[vale pine]

yep

[final wasp]

This only makes it so you can tabtarget mobs that are in combat, it has nothing to do with casting or not

[dusk stone]

i see

i figured it was just dumb ai things

but like you miss 100% of shots you dont take

[plucky parrot]

nope you'd send sec tech as your first finisher after BS with dance and symbols up into strike > coup > strike > coup (if you had shadowblades up you would storm instead of strike) this is also assuming you don't proc shadow techniques and get a cp reset in between coups

[final wasp]

I mean, you could also google the command itself and see what it does

(and just not read ai replies )

[alpine wraith]

it downloads more ram for you

[dusk stone]

the thing is

i would not trust the ais explaination

[turbid edge]

oh i see, it's because sectech has 3 hits so u just get that out with my supercharge first and then get my flawless stacks for the 2nd and 3rd sectech hits?

[final wasp]

Anyways, meeting time

[keen dome]

I just tab and if I land on the mob casting and interrupt, it was meant

If not, it was not meant.

Nothing to be done.

[dusk stone]

well i do that already

i try and aim for what i can improve right

[short radish]

the ultimate demon key

[vale pine]

The problem is, you can't rly get information about target position/visibility

[dusk stone]

mouse over has its limitations when you are dodging big blue circles and using mouse buttons for rotation stuff while camera and etc

[vale pine]

so creating a smart target addon is not possible

[dusk stone]

thats what the robot said, API limitations

its also trying to give me a macro for it so w/e i guess i try that prob wont work

[clever delta]

Im playing game for long time and I never used tab for target swap

[dusk stone]

this is why i hate AI

[split garden]

Dumb question but why on dimensious when I shadowstep does it put me front middle of boss in p1 but when I’ve watched rwf sub povs it looks like it stops them in place

[dusk stone]

it will give you a macro to use for the thing you ask for, but if you ask it if the thing it gave you works, it will say no

[opal basalt]

i stopped doing that after i played arena for a while. but it's easier to hit the nameplate in a 3 target fight (or just click on gladius/sarena) than to do so in a 20mob pull in pve

[mint swift]

I just use mouseover myself

[vale pine]

the position you shadowstep to is pre-defined so if you stand there it will look as if you stay in place

i use tab pargeting sometimes

[earnest canyon]

is saving combo points through shadow techniques (up to 14) before the burst a thing?
eg we auto attack save energy for 15 seconds before flag combo is up

or do we dont do that, and do regular rotation and just save shaadowdance/symbols of death is enough

[vale pine]

i wish https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/enemy-grid would not be purged and be clickable tho

[alpine wraith]

before cds sometimes you build to full

then keep backstabbing

that way you dont waste sht

but still get unseen procs

[split garden]

Maybe I’m missing something but that still doesn’t feel like it explains how to not teleport front middle on p1 dimmy from the tank knockback

[vale pine]

maybe they targeted a player

via mouseover

[alpine wraith]

they have a macro to step to a dk

on the knock

or mage with alter

if you step boss you do go to the middle

[karmic harbor]

Yeah its a focus macro

For a player on your side

Pref melee ofc

[alpine wraith]

exile had one with name because you also use it for p2

[turbid edge]

Sometimes my platers stack up. Is there a way to have casters prioritized towards the front (on top of others)? Especially if they're casting?

[boreal cargo]

Hey, sorry to bother you guys, I'm new to sub and trying to improve, I feel that I'm respecting the rotation explained on the wowhead guide but my parse are awful (12% ilvl 🙃 ) so I must be missing something. Could somebody help me review my logs or is there a website that could analyze it for me?

[vale pine]

you can open a log review by typing !log

[boreal cargo]

!log

[vale pine]

wowanalyzer isn't supported

so there is no automated 3rd party ^^

[warped gust]

!wa

[boreal cargo]

thank you!

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[vale pine]

a lot of mistakes come from cooldown management

e.g. not presisng cooldowns enough is super common for new players especially in m+

[dusk stone]

you need to link a log

[boreal cargo]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/R1VyrB3wtQqgW7Yx?fight=12&type=damage-done

[tulip gorge]

I am trying to fight my habit of holding cds for too long

I am too stingy with my flag

[plucky parrot]

unless a pack is about to die, or you know there's a much bigger pull coming after

you're generally better off just letting it rip

[alpine wraith]

just think about it this way

[tulip gorge]

yeah but sometimes I underestimate how long that "low hp" pack takes to die

[alpine wraith]

if you delay flag for 20 secs you will lose casts

[plucky parrot]

more casts over the course of the dungeon will be more impacful than a few "perfect" casts

[alpine wraith]

the best way to know if pack is dying fast is also having a way to track other people's cds

[plucky parrot]

comes with experience and knowing the damage profile of the rest of your group like hachadino mentioned

worst case if you misjudge

you could always send another dance + symbols

to tide you over

[tulip gorge]

usually other people hold too and it takes years to kill it off

[alpine wraith]

that is what chaining is for

tanks fault

next time flame him

[plucky parrot]

it's not perfect but if a pack is dying slow you can usually farm up another set of cds before you get to the next pack

also true

always flame your tank

[alpine wraith]

yea always tank or healer

never our fault

[arctic heart]

struggling playing 2 usable trinkets, how do u guys macro it? shadow blades + trinket and another keybind shadow blades + the other trinekt? or we have some clever way to do it

[fossil forge]

I bound both on use to side mouse buttons

[plucky parrot]

ultimately it comes down to personal preference, but best case is you have separate binds for each

if you want to be lazier

you can macro both into shadowblades if you're running forge:
/cast shadowblades
/use 13 (forge)
/use 14 (prism)

[arctic heart]

yes, i was thinking about it but sometimes they both are off cds, 13 will always be used first?

[alpine wraith]

and have a diff bind for prism alone

in case you hold cds and forge comes up again

[plucky parrot]

it'll prio forge first and as long as you're hitting blades on cd you'll use prism every other set as intended, but it's still recommended to have a separate bind for prism for fights where you hold cds and forge comes off cd

like araz

[frozen gyro]

Hello. Is there an addon that counts how many enemies are nearby? So it is easier in the chaos of m+ to determine when to evisce and when to bp. Also do you bp at 7+ and evisce till 7 or?

[plucky parrot]

soul hunters

etc.

[plucky parrot]

yes 13 will always be used first if it's off cd

if it's on cd it'll use 14

[arctic heart]

thats a good way

to do it!

ty guys

[plucky parrot]

bp at 4 and up

[frozen gyro]

Aha

And during sd we stick to shadowstrike regardless of number of enemies?

[fossil forge]

https://wago.io/NyFFoF1mQ/16

[mint violet]

how to get the spreadsheet for m+ where u get what def skill mitigates what damage?

[vale pine]

we use shadowstrike always during dance

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[frozen gyro]

Awesome ty 😊

[mint violet]

ty

why the fuck feint does not apply to half of the attacks

like locust swarm

is it not aoe attack?

[tidal salmon]

it does apply to that actually

it applies almost on everything

[mint violet]

oh

in ara kara?

[tidal salmon]

ye

[mint violet]

in the spreadsheet it does not have it

[fossil forge]

Just talent into elusivness and spam feint on cd

works 11/10

[tidal salmon]

• xd

op af it is, especially on sub

i survived a few scenarios with feint + evasion where i got aoe + 2 cast on me at the same time, its legit wild

on keys like 15-16

[fossil forge]

So much stuff u can live with elusivness

Legit makes u a mini tank

[tidal salmon]

ye, going cheat death is completely greed on the healer and party

[fossil forge]

Abuse cheatdeath in raid

[mint violet]

i will try it, ty

[tidal salmon]

i even play elus on raid idk

but ye play cd on raid ig lol

[fossil forge]

u can play If ur a gamer

I dont trust my healers unfortunately

[tidal salmon]

i do it even on hc but its cz i dont care tbh, if i would mythic i'd %100 play cheat also

[fossil forge]

I meant mythic so yea

[mint violet]

why cheat better in mythic?

i mean in raid

[tidal salmon]

its safer i mean

[compact cobalt]

Well, for one it's just safer and covers mistakes, and two you can completely ignore or solo mechanics with it.

[tidal salmon]

you mostly get deleted instantly anyways if you make a mistake on mythic, especially early season with low ilvl. so going elusiv is not worth at all anyways, you die before casting a feint mostly lol

[mint violet]

ye i guess it makes sense for prog

[alpine wraith]

elu is objectivly better but we are humans and make mistakes

[plush roost]

Eh depends on fight

[alpine wraith]

so you play cheat unless bosses have very predictable dmg

like on dimensius or saladbar

[plush roost]

No point going cheat on dimmy since most fail states kill throufh it

Saladbar too

[tidal salmon]

ye actually depends on fights and such a gamer you are. if you trust yourself elusiv> on any content

[alpine wraith]

you could also play elu in forgeweaver

and others but uh

[vale pine]

i don't know if elu is better, because feint reduces most spells already enough to be non deadly

[alpine wraith]

loom and frac

[plush roost]

Ive had elu on entire tier cause i legit forget to swap cheat

And having evasion as a defensive is quite nice

[tidal salmon]

for sub ye prolly. my assa has a mosquito level durability tho

[alpine wraith]

cheat also kills you quite a bit this tier

because remember 2 dmg instances fast if cheat procs you ded

indi game

[tidal salmon]

as i remember it was always like that, so been using elus since last season sl personally

[vale pine]

you can potentially argue that elu makes you the better player

because less mistakes are corrected by cheat death

[fossil forge]

I like that i can greed with cheat

[vale pine]

so you have better feedback on mistakes (because you just die)

[remote shuttle]

Ye also if we die we lose prism stacks, am i right?

[warped gust]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[vale pine]

yep

[remote shuttle]

Eh.. so big mistake results in death+lose stacks.. i think i'll stay with cd to not be punished twice in case of death

Also i'm not that good to play no cd atm, road is still long 🤟

[limpid sage]

@vale pine sorry to ping, but how do you sim with prepull cheese? I can't find it D:

both supercharger and disorienting strikes

[vale pine]

raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=supercharge_2,first=0,cooldown=999999```

[limpid sage]

sick ty <3

[vale pine]

thats only supercharger

[limpid sage]

ye just realized haha

[vale pine]

raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=disorienting_strikes,first=0,cooldown=999999```

if you want disorienting too

you need to put it in expert mode

[limpid sage]

do you have somewhere you keep track of all this

[vale pine]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[limpid sage]

or do you just remember/check the docs

[vale pine]

its just a raid event to give you the buffs

you can find in the sim report

[night sparrow]

Hey, stacking ShT 10sec before Flag is worth, I bet this applies to "dry" dance+symbols in a lesser extent isn't it ? Like 3 4 sec ?

[vale pine]

yes, you can stop using finisher ~10 sec before cooldowns

[limpid sage]

is there any way to simulate with cheap shot casts?

seems like it won't cast because boss isn't stunnable

[night sparrow]

Hey Stealthi if you around, heard you made a WA for the 1.2 Coup GCD to manage better the potential ShT Coup proc into full cp refill, do you mind to share ? ♥

[kind wasp]

Anyone have recommendations for youtube guides for sub rogue in m+?

[fossil forge]

Shindigs sub tutorial

[tribal blade]

i think it might because you can cast kidney on immune targets

it makes the sound and spends the CPs but nothing happens

[fleet wharf]

Do you guys track how long you have left on the 2nd coup charge from this tier's 4p? any recommended WAs for that?

[torn dove]

is vanish's only offensive use as sub for premed?

[tepid trellis]

yeh

[tribal blade]

i just have a WA that i fiddled with myself and it just reactivates on the 2nd coup with updated timer

so didn't have to change a thing haha

[fleet wharf]

Yea, I might need to tinker with that an ddo something similar. Mind sharing how you adjusted yours?

[tribal blade]

honestly don't remember exactly what i did

[fleet wharf]

On a related note, it doesn't matter at what CP we send Coups at though right?

[tribal blade]

i think i ripped this off an existing WA

[slate lantern]

You still follow finisher rules for coups, only if you literally can't get to the proper cp in the next gcd would you send coup with low cp

[night sparrow]

Hey Stealthi if you around, heard you made a WA for the 1.2 Coup GCD to manage better the potential ShT Coup proc into full cp refill, do you mind to share ? ♥

[quasi portal]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[fleet wharf]

Wait, so the new escalting blade from 4p has the same spell ID as your normal escalting blades?

[north schooner]

yes

[quasi portal]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[quasi portal]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[junior light]

https://www.twitch.tv/casualaddict_/clip/AdventurousHonestPangolinAliens-A3uX_8k-KaiU7_tJ

[swift tinsel]

Minus the rotten fw stuff ig

That pretty much sums it up

[raw arrow]

Alright if I'm reading correctly the only shuriken storm during SD is between the first coup de grace and the second in multi target (wowhead priority)? Is shadowstrike really better here?

[hazy breach]

Yes

Your hero talent doesnt function if you spam storm

[raw arrow]

I guess unseen blade is more valuable, I get it okay
But even with like 8 plus targets?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[clever delta]

Damn i just checked my logs and im too horny in cds pressing dance and symbols still in rupture gcd

[shell bramble]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[clever delta]

How do you go around it mentally to not press it too soon ?

[slow gorge]

Sim

[coral wedge]

any guide for simming double on-use trinkets?

[slow gorge]

!symbols

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[raw arrow]

Stand on a dummy for hours and do 10 pushups if you do it wrong

[alpine wraith]

watch the circle of the gcd spin

cool pasttime

[night sparrow]

We dont, keep doing this so I gain 0.02 parse

[earnest canyon]

sorry new rogue here just wanted to confirm my understanding from the guides
everytime we do shadow dance + symbol combo, we always do 1 backstab first correct?
doesnt matter if we are doing flagellation + shadowbloade + shadow dance + symbol, or just shadow dance + symbol only

[clever delta]

I dobt even know if I have one ;D

[tribal blade]

develop boomer reaction timings 😉

[clever delta]

Im the biggest boomer

[tribal blade]

you're halfway there

[clever delta]

If i press it at end of rupture gcd I bealive im fine, but I do so in middle of some times 😄

[fathom adder]

yes@earnest canyon, but using strike is not a big loss

if you prefer it for learning

[tribal blade]

i have similar type problems sometimes because of how piano sub is in cds

having higher ping doesn't help either

[earnest canyon]

want to get muscle memory from the start. thanks for the confirmation!

[terse ruin]

Yo guys, which stat pot I need to use when I have flat 22k Versa and 17k Mastery and 9k crits ?

[clever delta]

Btw what's worth the old new vanish in opener

!vanish

[slate marlin]

22k versa? do you even take dmg?

how much % is that?

[terse ruin]

28%

[night sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-its-over9000-gif-14419267

[slate marlin]

damn

[clever delta]

I have like 35 in raid

[terse ruin]

Always last target is healers details hahahaha

[terse ruin]

without buffs and potions ? insane

[feral knot]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[clever delta]

With everything

[terse ruin]

Aaah

My 28% is without anything

[clever delta]

And I still almost died on pull of salamander of periodical dmg

With dance dr

[terse ruin]

It's why I ask for which stat I need to take with flasks

[slate marlin]

you should sim it

Its not going to be haste flask i can tell you that

[swift tinsel]

#tc-research message

[clever delta]

Max dps will always be alchemical

But i take vers for progg

[swift tinsel]

use the flask section

they're usually very close between alch chaos, vers and mastery

[terse ruin]

Thx I didn't know

[runic granite]

in multi target, at what target count do i use Shuriken storm instead of shadowstrike?

[swift tinsel]

Always strike in dance

[runic granite]

ok cool thanks

[terse ruin]

I have this ?

What I did wrong haha

[swift tinsel]

only storm in dance between coups if you have shadow blades active or enough shadow techniques stacks to get 6+cp from one storm

[terse ruin]

I need to paste my simC code and below the txt right ?

[swift tinsel]

did you run as advanced sim

and paste the consume part under your simc input you copied from the in-game addon

[short radish]

share 👀

[tribal blade]

1. sec

[terse ruin]

this txt works for other classes or only rogue ?

[hazy breach]

Works for others but pretty much everyone uses alchemical chaos anyway

Since its noticeably more stats overall

[terse ruin]

What's the difference with other wa for coups ?

[tribal blade]

omfg it's not letting me send w/o nitro because of character limit

[tribal blade]

honestly no idea haha

[short radish]

copy it to paste

[wheat elk]

im gonna need a netherprism -_-

lily is bad (

[swift tinsel]

I'm getting mine in vault today ong fr fr

[fleet wharf]

the pvp trinket seems to outsim lily by quite a bit

[swift tinsel]

can finally put our frost dk in his place in keys

[wheat elk]

hmm imma check it out

[swift tinsel]

idk lily beats badge for me at hero and myth track

[past cobalt]

Yeah. Just not sure I wanna add that to coggy load in keys

[swift tinsel]

currently using pvp trinket

[terse ruin]

What is bubble wax ? I don't find it on AH

and sim doesn't say anything about flasks

[honest basin]

I'm manifesting a mythic ritual forge in my vault

[vale pine]

you can pickpocket it after finishing a quest

[terse ruin]

Thx 🙂

[swift tinsel]

did you copy this part

[terse ruin]

Yes it's ok it's just very low on the list

Bubblewax is insanely higher

[rough rivet]

you can also farm floodgates on normal/heroic. mobs in there drop wax as well

[remote shuttle]

I dunno i SIM prism+forge and seems bad, i try in key and Is like +500k+ overall

[fleet wharf]

yea, you are right. I guess I should have simmed vs fully upgraded lily

[remote shuttle]

Think 2 on use dep a lot in usage, sim doesn't cover all situation in plus

[terse ruin]

It only drop on rogue or I can farm it with my VDH for example ?

[rough rivet]

only on rogue

[terse ruin]

Ok thx

[fleet wharf]

you get it only through pickpocketing, no?

[rough rivet]

no, mobs in floodgate drop it when killed

[terse ruin]

all mobs in flood ?

[honest basin]

nah its lootable from kobolds in the ringing deeps and dungeons down there as well

[inner garnet]

Are sub "broken" right now or why are people saying its gonna be nerfed. Multiple times today in dungeons people have written this. Just rumors or jealous of the class? ^^

[swift tinsel]

because they don't know how sub works

[rough rivet]

all kloblins/kobolds i think. didnt really farm it in floodgate mainly pickpocketed before flood came out and still have ~15 stacks

[terse ruin]

Sub isn't broken

Insane bursts but a lot of "nothing" phases

[fleet wharf]

We could use a bit of a ST buff though, no?

[honest basin]

pure ST is a bit low fs, but not like unplayable or anything

[vale pine]

tl;dr:
subtlety is a burst spec, individuals get baited by clips shared on social media you see only the peak of burst but not how damage behaves after

think of it like this

if a spec is supposed to do burst damage and not much between

if it did the same as other classes which are not designed with this limitations

[fleet wharf]

yea, but how about we just emphasize us being below aug on fract lol

[vale pine]

it would be terrible and nobody would play it

[honest basin]

thats why im hoping that blizz will not nerf sub despite it being prevalent rn bc burst is just really good in a couple specific fights

[fleet wharf]

likewise, but if you see what happened to fury S1, I dunno if I have too much hope

[terse ruin]

Assa deserve more nerfs than us lmao

[honest basin]

but they've been heavy handed in the past even if specs aren't technically overperforming and just well positioned.

[vale pine]

i am still surprised

assassinations aoe was not touched for an entire xpac

[honest basin]

ass needs bugfixes before they do anything to the numbers tbh

[vale pine]

but only now slightly reduced this tier

[dusk stone]

welp got highest sub parse for a 12 and forgot to log it xd

[vale pine]

it was such a clear outliner

[dusk stone]

on eco dome

[honest basin]

F

i got rank 9 on araz last night and carried the motherfuck outta my team lmao

our spriest parsed a 0

[dusk stone]

nice

[honest basin]

spriest one trick since vanilla btw

[dusk stone]

think i would've got a significantly higher number if i could get my burst to line up with the amp

you cant flag on opener for last boss or you miss the timing

10s until flag when you are getting the 3rd amp ghost

[glad raven]

they died tho

[honest basin]

send 1x dance before to make it line up without losing a ton of dps

[honest basin]

he died every pull

[dusk stone]

no like

you need it before

you need to send flag 10s before you pull boss apparently as last usage

[glad raven]

Couple stragglers there

[daring marlin]

Our sp dies every pull aswell

[dusk stone]

probably more like 15 or 20

[honest basin]

ret pally is the rl, the 2nd ele shaman is a healer who got forced onto ele for the fight, the mm hunter only knows how to play bm

[glad raven]

How've you killed araz but not soulbinder, you beast

[honest basin]

they sat me for the outlaw on soulbinder

my other rogue has a full 5/8

[glad raven]

lmao

[dusk stone]

what

why

sub is amazing for that fight

[honest basin]

when we got to soulbinder i was playing sin bc i didn't have a netherprism

[dusk stone]

oh

well thats also their fault

[honest basin]

but that was like

3 weeks ago or whatever

im getting forge in vault this week(surely ) and never playing sin again till next tier

[glad raven]

sitting you when theres people playing with the one button thing by the looks

[dusk stone]

even champion netherprism is big worth

run it on lfr if you have to

[honest basin]

https://tenor.com/view/good-soldiers-starwars-clone-follow-orders-gif-15758659

[glad raven]

You have 3 warlocks bro

[honest basin]

ive got one now, i actually have prism+forge on that rogue

[glad raven]

But respect

[dusk stone]

but like

how long do the adds live on mythic

[honest basin]

i raid in 2 guilds and one of them is significantly better so eh

[dusk stone]

becaise that has to be a long time for outlaw to be good

[glad raven]

ahhh fairs

[honest basin]

in this guild WAY TOO FUCKIN LONG LMAO

[dusk stone]

even then

aint no way outlaw is the play

[honest basin]

i haven't been in for a single soulbinder kill and every week they almost wipe to phaseblades

our outlaw rogue is really good fwiw

[dusk stone]

tell RL he needs to follow the other rets and go on strike until they buff ret

[honest basin]

LMAO

she thought the ret discord was a bunch of crybaby morons for that

[dusk stone]

my guild isnt anything special but the dps is ok

i am like 4th on soulbinder or something

sub cranks for that fight

[honest basin]

oh yeah i know

i just dont rly care that much

[dusk stone]

im gonna ask my RL today to move 1 dps to right platform for saladbar

so i can 18 prism bp it

[honest basin]

god

i want that so bad

have to get through soulhunters first

[dusk stone]

i dont think you can rly complain

last time i did it i was like 3mil ahead of other dps

[slow gorge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dusk stone]

prism didnt even get full value

[hazy breach]

Such a pissboss

[mystic grove]

Guys, is black powder only used in packs with 8 ads or more?

[hazy breach]

No, 4

[honest basin]

it seems like a... eh... better than frac ig lmao

[dusk stone]

4

[honest basin]

frac kinda snoozer

target dummy simulator

[stoic sphinx]

Wym kinda

[earnest canyon]

using shadowblades 0.5 seconds before secret technique, or 0.5 seconds after, which one is better?

[hazy breach]

Soul hunters is also a snoozer if youre not a ranged

[dusk stone]

sub on paper is bad for frac but i walk away with good parses relative to my guild somehow

[honest basin]

thats fair ig there's not really shit going on aside from hunt

[honest basin]

the top rogue parse for frac is sub

or was idk if it changed

[dusk stone]

yeah but that log is insane highroll

[honest basin]

oh i know lmao

[stoic sphinx]

Just get good

[hazy breach]

Its "just dont stand in shit and hope your ranged figure out the mechanics" type fight where what you do has little impact on killing the boss

[honest basin]

thats exactly why i hated oab

[dusk stone]

idk was just strange the dps is the better part of the team ig

[honest basin]

bc nothing i did mattered. it was all up to fuckin ranged just not dying

[dusk stone]

we have giga deadweight on it but the top end carries

[short radish]

yeah wtf is that log

like 600k more dps than all the other sub rogue parses

[honest basin]

thje coup damage is wild

the*

[short radish]

just crit coup or something?

[dusk stone]

i believe we came to the conclusion it wasnt the amount of coups

[hazy breach]

723 trinkets, like 60% crit on coup instead of the 30% he has

[short radish]

[honest basin]

yeah

[hazy breach]

Getting coup > strike > strike > coups in cds

[short radish]

just crit

[dusk stone]

what're your guys working on eleem

[honest basin]

living all of our dreams

[short radish]

i do remember you guys saying the variance on dps due to this tier set

[dusk stone]

dimensius? or is it done

[short radish]

was way bigger than last seasons

but holy shit

[hazy breach]

Im at nexus

[dusk stone]

you just sending flag on cd there or?

[hazy breach]

Ye

Otherwise its not up for the amp

[dusk stone]

hopefully we kill dimensius this week and go into mythic tomorrow

i miss doing high end stuff

[honest basin]

i will say i missed the fuck outta mythic raiding

before aberrus my last CE experience was SoO, since my guild died on blackhand so i never got that CE

[dusk stone]

i come from swtor, still relatively new here so i get to do it all over again

[dense geode]

why did exile opt for replicating/finality instead of the normal planned execution on Saladbar

[honest basin]

platform damage if i had to guess

[hazy breach]

Slightly more cleave during p2 and platform damage ig, but honestly i dont think it matters

[rose burrow]

I see a lot of high m+ rogues playing the rotten, is it worth playing or do we just go by sim values?

[placid elk]

Its for applying fw to all target with shuriken storm after symbols

[honest basin]

if you're doing giga pulls it does guarantee you a find weakness on the whole pack with improved shuriken storm

[swift tinsel]

not really anymore

[potent nimbus]

I’ve got mythic lily and mythic nether prism and on nexus king now, Ik antenna sims higher but the select few nexus logs and lots of sub logs still run double use, worth still using 2x on-use or should I still go for antenna?

[upbeat sorrel]

is arcane mage fun to play as an alt

[honest basin]

but like idk i just dont like the talent so i dont play it

[swift tinsel]

yeah its pretty similar to sub

[placid elk]

No

[upbeat sorrel]

[hazy breach]

Thats what people are doing, but like ive said before weve tried pretty much everything we can think of to get it to be good in sims but now with tier its just not showing to be worth

[rose burrow]

lmao fair think ill stick with regular build for now

[dusk stone]

even casual is running double on use but that may be for raid

[honest basin]

i just dont like the rotten idk

trash talent

[dusk stone]

the best argument i hear for not taking rotten is that you dont even use it after sectec anymore

[honest basin]

[dusk stone]

you will use it basically as 1st builder in 2nd dance

because from the gather everything has FW

[short radish]

my feelycraft says that running coldblood is better because the amount of teas that i proc at the end of the pack with backstabs

is more than i'd like to notice

[swift tinsel]

why would you storm first builder in 2nd dance

[short radish]

and thats something i dont think gets accounted for in sims

[dusk stone]

well somewhere around there

[short radish]

you could also just say "yeah dont spam backstab you idiot"

[swift tinsel]

you're only storming between coups in dance

[dusk stone]

i would say after sectec but meh instead of stab**** seems fine too

[hazy breach]

In dslice it definitely is

[dusk stone]

we dont lose anything afaik

[short radish]

but i just wanted to chime in with 2 cents

[kind wasp]

Do we have a poison macro for quickly applying? Or what poisons are we even running? all new to rogue

[short radish]

is it?

okay nevermind then

[honest basin]

when i press cold blood sectech the number really big and makes brain happy, and tea no do that

[short radish]

💯

[swift tinsel]

you can make a pretty easy castsequence macro with instant and atro

or instant and crippling

[honest basin]

thats my reasoning 100%

[dusk stone]

holy i need sleep

[kind wasp]

Instant it is, thanks.

[short radish]

like i swear i've noticed higher overall numbers with CB than running tea

but maybe that is confirmation bias

[hazy breach]

Sim was missing out on casting CB sometimes in aoe if you got lucky procs, CB should be closer to tea now in dslice and the like

[dusk stone]

if youre running TR where would you put the storm in 2nd dance

[swift tinsel]

between coup

as usual

[dusk stone]

its still gambling tho kinda right?

[swift tinsel]

no

bc you have blades up

[dusk stone]

ig symbols sectec coup storm coup yeah

[swift tinsel]

so if you don't get a refund you storm

[dusk stone]

that works

but you cant rly guaruntee coup in 2nd dance with symbols up can you

[swift tinsel]

unless you get exceedingly unlucky

you get 2 guaranteed ub's from disorienting

[dusk stone]

hows that gonna go tho

symbols -> sectec -> strike -> coup?

or what

[swift tinsel]

you play second dance like you always do

don't overthink it

don't try to game the rotten+storm into it

[dusk stone]

if its even needed cause storm in 1st dance coup may apply it

[swift tinsel]

dude

you storm

between coups

in blades

[dusk stone]

i said that just now yes

[swift tinsel]

you don't connect storm to fw application

[dusk stone]

the storm between coups may apply fw in 1st dance

[swift tinsel]

strike applies it

always

don't worry about secondary fw targets in dance

[dusk stone]

well were bping right so thats where fw matters

[swift tinsel]

not really

the bp buffs made its damage less contingent on fw

[dusk stone]

but yeah i see, you have high rate of getting it from 1st dance anyway

its still a lot

storm crit is 50%?

[swift tinsel]

depends on your crit but somewhere close to that

[dusk stone]

ill record a few runs and see if its not up naturally and see if im really biased about it i think

[shadow lance]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[swift tinsel]

you gain 22% from talents alone if you take lethality

on storm

[earnest canyon]

using shadowblades 0.5 seconds before secret technique, or 0.5 seconds after, which one is better?　or does it not matter that much. the wowhead guide says to use it slightly before, while the method guide says to use it slighty after

[dusk stone]

btw gl in vault

[graceful osprey]

I’m ready for another week of belts and other useless things

[rapid briar]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[hazy breach]

The main difference between now and last tier in regards to rotten is that not only is strike stronger (because unseen blade does more damage and procs more coup), youre also casting way less BPs as you get to coup twice in a row
As an example i looked at a aoe pull where during blades 11 finishers were cast. Last tier that wouldve been 2 sectechs, 1 coup and 8 BPs, now its 2 sectechs, 4 coups and 5 BPs

[junior timber]

Do you guys marco Dance+Symbold+BS?

[hazy breach]

Doesnt matter, but its easier to do it before

[drowsy moon]

is it a dps loss if I do bind my symbols to my dance

and I also have separate symbols on bind

[hazy breach]

If you have dance on a seperate bind too its fine

[drowsy moon]

oh

I dont

[hazy breach]

But at that point its

[drowsy moon]

when do I wanna solo dance

[upbeat garden]

Never?

[hazy breach]

During blades

[drowsy moon]

I can see it being a bit weird

with first dance

since dance lasts very long and I cant dance again without it ending

[hazy breach]

Without first dance

[drowsy moon]

I sometimes use extra symbols

or wait

since I cant solo dance cuz I dont have it binded

[drowsy moon]

👀