subtlety

[manic salmon]

assa is a bugged spec right now

[empty plume]

sub can just choose to be a team player and not BP (when a prio target exists)

[manic salmon]

with 2 major hero talents not working

[wispy crystal]

Should I go with assas for M+ or try sub?

[mental kettle]

even with 15% nerf assa still crazy on aoe

[runic sinew]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[mental kettle]

both are viable

i would go with what u prefer

[spice lichen]

That’s like actively throwing though considering in aoe you’re still shadowstrike, coup, and ST a prio target

[empty plume]

pretty comp dependent

[manic salmon]

pulls up to 10 targets

[chrome flax]

Strength of assa is the uptime. Sub rogue if you leave melee you do 0 while assa still doing good dmg

[wispy crystal]

Will sub be stronger in single target situations?

[manic salmon]

anything above and sub wins

[empty plume]

m+ is highly variable and BP could be considered "padding" is all

[hoary anvil]

ive been playing the bleeds build for M+, and on high-ish keys im really hating the dogshit ST that build has

[manic salmon]

by far

[mental kettle]

yes much stronger

[manic salmon]

Ye

the build cant do damage unless you're actively bleeding at least 3 targets

[wispy crystal]

I might swap from assas to sub

[mental kettle]

bleed build needs tank to pull funnel on high keys or its gg

[wispy crystal]

Assas does poor damage on ST

[manic salmon]

Ye but its funnel right now is a bit fucked

because singular is bugged

and combo point generation is also fucked because fok crit hero talent just doesnt work

like between all the bugs assa loses like 10% overall damage and a big portion of its funnel

[lucid jackal]

Sins aoe build does 0 ST

[warm marlin]

me when i spread misinformation

[hoary anvil]

ive been trying to learn sub bc the dmg profile seems more fitting

[open vortex]

big fan of lying

[chrome flax]

aka meta whore

[wispy crystal]

Is there a sub guide I can look at for M+?

[manic salmon]

im just quoting what whispyr said

from his video

[warm marlin]

#assassination message 4-5%

[manic salmon]

[chrome flax]

We play sub because we hate ourself. we are not the same

[spice lichen]

Let em know

[empty plume]

I just prefer burst over bleeds, i'd have played shadow priest or affli lock if I wanted to be a multidotter

[wispy crystal]

Can I use the wowhead guide ?

[mental kettle]

sub is pretty fun

except downtime

but w/e

only outlaw has it better

assa is just as bad

[hoary anvil]

just run between packs during downtime

ez

[mental kettle]

ST pooling

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[chrome flax]

I play sub since BC. So I could clap cheeks in the wild

Outlaw random HP bonus and an actual jump

[hoary anvil]

i mean i played sub on wotlk, not remotely close to what the spec plays now

on a serious note tho

[chrome flax]

I cant do this sorry

[hoary anvil]

how much of an int is it to simply *not *do the storm between coup procs like

[manic sierra]

I’m a combat spec Andy from vanilla/tbc

[tepid trellis]

somewhere between 0.5 and 1.5%

[hoary anvil]

i'm really really having a hard time not pressing SS instead

[high bramble]

guys do I really need to pool energy to not use thistle in m+ :ddd

[tepid trellis]

its just about getting used to it

[tepid trellis]

no, we dont care

just let it proc

[high bramble]

its such a boring mechanic

[lucid jackal]

What is

[vivid cobalt]

how is cold blood not just better

[high bramble]

automatically consuming thistle charges

[vivid cobalt]

tea seems shitty

[lucid jackal]

Its dcent

Its more aoe less st

[hollow spear]

Muscle memory is a bitch, I cannot not use bs during dance anymore and that sucks on fractillus

[wet robin]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[astral axle]

call me crazy but i dont mind the downtime of sub. nice to have contour to a spec damage profile. if everything was outlaw or fury warrior it'd be boring.

[hollow spear]

People were complaining about auto tea on sin and it was damage neutral

[vivid cobalt]

feels like much less downtime than it had in season 1

[hollow spear]

Just bind it to dance and forget it exists

[hoary anvil]

tea is more aoe over cb?

[high bramble]

yeah but half the fun of the spec is maxing out tea and shiv during deathmark

[lucid jackal]

A minmax that didnt actually do anything

[hollow spear]

But there's no maxing is the point

[hoary anvil]

the min with no max

[hollow spear]

You might think you do something but you don't

Odds are you probably mess it up and do less than if you had macroed it

[chrome flax]

Same, downtime spec look cool at the start of a fight 😎

[warm marlin]

need to find SOMETHING to do while playing assa

to be fair

[high bramble]

exactly its a minigame xd

[fathom adder]

i get it its an cd focused spec but it had its things "outside" of dance that i miss. More ereg, more dance cdr, maybe something like wod multistrike rupture gimmick or backstab critting more/doing more dmg/building something you "let lose" inside dance like prism now or at least the possibility to do so would be cool

[tepid trellis]

iirc whispyr said its even a dmg gain for FB to let it auto proc

[hollow spear]

Gamble away your life savings on crypto on your second screen

[tepid trellis]

fcking coins

[hoary anvil]

ok dumb question, how is dance+stab not a macro?

[hollow spear]

It is

I don't use it tho

[lucid jackal]

Because sometimes you are at max CP going into a dance

[hollow spear]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[lucid jackal]

Just dont use macros

There are 2 useful rogue sub macros

[hollow spear]

Hm, what was the command?

Well there's a double press macro

[tepid trellis]

!backstab

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[hollow spear]

Which saves you a keybind

[hoary anvil]

i used the double press one

[hoary anvil]

this one

[hollow spear]

Yeah there's no better one

Because of what guy said

Sometimes you'd just waste your premed

[chrome flax]

Its the best. In case you dont have enough energy or sometime it bug when doing double cast

[astral axle]

backstab is 4 shadowstrike is 3 and i sleep easy 😌

[high bramble]

I swear that tea castsequence just breaks half the time and ends up not consuming any charges

[hoary anvil]

" R: it is, it's just a bad one "

[chrome flax]

So many peoppe here today. I miss the day we were like 4 sub rogue

total in the game

[woeful wren]

what build are ppl running in higher m+ keys?

[hoary anvil]

rotten+cb i assume?

[chrome fern]

what do we do in HoA just go next and play sin?

[woeful wren]

is that last seasons?

[hazy breach]

You can play cb or tea, whatever you prefer

[chrome flax]

the damage difference is not that much tbh

[hoary anvil]

last week maybe, definitely not last season

[hazy breach]

Most people find tea a bit smoother to play, it does slightly more aoe while cb does more ST/prio

[mossy hatch]

how many targets should i rupture?

[lucid jackal]

Every

[mental kettle]

!craft

!crafting

[hazy breach]

You generally shouldnt be delaying your cds just to apply ruptures

[vale pine]

!rupture wonder if thats still active

[wicked jolt]

When to apply rupture:
Rupture is used on enemies that survive for ~12 seconds but not during Shadow Dance. You always apply Rupture to all targets that fulfill this condition if you optimize for dps. Replicating shadows spreads Rupture to the closest target to your character and makes correct positioning relevant.

[chrome flax]

depend if they are high hp target. Mostly during downtime and when tank are regrouping

[mossy hatch]

every? am i missing a way to spreead it easier?

[vale pine]

but sim it

[mental kettle]

sank you sir. what embelishments? I have nerubian one on my wep since I did it for assa first :/

[hoary anvil]

fuu replacing moroes soon

[mental kettle]

ascendance*

[vale pine]

lense, can use dusk or dawn too if you like they are all very close

[hazy breach]

Embellishments are inconsequential really, play whatever you feel like

[mental kettle]

bis

[vale pine]

ascendent on weapon is good too

[mental kettle]

thanks

[lucid jackal]

ascendance simmed higher than lens for me

[mental kettle]

yolo mastery/versa or should i sim secondaries

[vale pine]

you can sim it, there is a pin in #tc-research to add crafted gear to your top gear

[rapid stream]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[rapid stream]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[winged kernel]

any good sub rogues can look at my mythic forgeweaver prog last night and tell me what the fuck im doin wrong

(first time actually playing sub)

[dreamy badger]

link log

[short radish]

Do !log

[winged kernel]

(already figured out that I shouldn't of been using BP)

[short radish]

To keep it contained

Bp is fine

[winged kernel]

!log

[proper rune]

blackpowder is disgusting to press in m+

hate it

[mossy hatch]

do we prio black powder over coup in the 4+ target scenario

[vale pine]

you can keep using evis instead, it is a damage loss on aoe but its not that gigantic of a loss

[astral axle]

always coup

[vale pine]

coup has highest prio

outside of shadow dance, where secret techniques has higher one

[outer jacinth]

Hey, i was watching a guide and noticed that the guide makers "backstab" got replaced by shadowstrike on the same button when he used shadowdance, is that possible to make as a macro or how does it work?

[mossy hatch]

when do we press technique outside of shadow dance? i thought we were never suppose to do that

[proper rune]

its just his bar going into stealth

[ionic tinsel]

My sequence is correct but I have only 5 globals in my dances. This is helpful!

[vale pine]

#showtooltip Shadowstrike
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab```

[vale pine]

we don't

or well there is technically a chance that we do

[outer jacinth]

Wait is this a macro or?

[hazy breach]

Generally never, but there are som situation where you can do it, but its insanely minor if you do it correctly and insanely bad if you do it improperly

[violet barn]

How high are you guys bursting on the 5 target dummies in dornogal, im 706 assa enjoyer tryign out sub for the first time

[vale pine]

oh no

[violet barn]

Feel like im fucking something up bad

[vale pine]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[vale pine]

its this

[lucid jackal]

200 trillion

[vale pine]

this one does re-use shadow dance for backstab

[tidal marsh]

Assa enjoyer surprised that Sub does less on target dummies while the dummies are in perma execute

[vale pine]

the one i posted is for backstab/strike on the same bind

[tidal marsh]

[astral axle]

foreverguy if i paid for your wow coaching can you teach me how to burst for 200 trillion

[uneven fern]

[violet barn]

You just said something

[outer jacinth]

Ah this worked, thanks alot

[vale pine]

but it does more damage

https://tenor.com/view/smart-think-meme-intelligence-common-sense-gif-8946867

[swift tinsel]

Idk if anyone can afford the LeBron James of rogue

[astral axle]

[outer jacinth]

Do we macro flaggellation /shadowblades together for cooldowns?

[hazy breach]

No

[proper rune]

is it ever worth to coldblood coup?

[hazy breach]

Sectech does more per cast so no not really

[stuck linden]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[tepid bluff]

is there a way to add to this macro the Symbol of death too ?

[hazy breach]

You can but its not good

[tepid bluff]

why?

[hazy breach]

Because you dont want to use dance & symbols together at all times

[manic salmon]

you want to supercharge sectech

it might not line up with 2nd dance

[hazy breach]

The reason we and the guides aint recommending many macros isnt because were elitists who think that macros are dumb, its because we cant really macro most things together without losing throughput

[proper rune]

unless you're the top 1% of sub rogues id say go ahead and macro dance symbols for feelgood

[slender totem]

what talents are u running for m+ as of now? saw that mine seems outdated. people are running the rotten and ST on leaderboards 😮

[swift tinsel]

and also you'd need to have un-macroed version of those spells for the times you don't use them

[peak prawn]

Hey guys, I got myth track lily and heroic antena + prism. Sim is telling me to go lily + prism (0.5%). It just feels wrong leaving lily unused for every other cd window. Works better with araz imho. Is it a bait to go double on use with lily?

[swift tinsel]

3 binds instead of 2 for 2 spells seems off

[tepid bluff]

yeah, this is what i was thinking. .,.. im not going to be zeross level, or casualaddict. Im fine with "close" to them 😄

[upper narwhal]

i use symbols+dance macro along with unmacroed symbols and dance

[vale pine]

you can change the talents to your preferences

[empty plume]

many 1-3% sacrifices makes for pretty poor dps i'd say

better to try

[upper narwhal]

Sub is a jenga tower built on 1-3% optimisations

[empty plume]

most classes are like that

[slender totem]

so it doesnt rly matter?

[empty plume]

like.. you can only cut so many corners

[vale pine]

you can spezialise

[empty plume]

but that's why the top people are consistently on top

[vale pine]

e.g. tornado is slightly better in aoe

replicting is better for cleave

[slender totem]

ahh okey

and the rotten?

[vale pine]

Inevitability more single target/burst, finality more aoe

etc

rotten isn't that insane

[hollow spear]

I think you're overestimating the minmax. When you go through top logs, some of them don't do any of that.

[slender totem]

okey

[vale pine]

but especially if you don't have a lot of crit isn't that bad

[slender totem]

im 14k crit 18k mast 12k vers

[empty plume]

they were talking about macroing dance and symbols together

[hollow spear]

Yeah you won't see too much of that in lorrgs

Wouldn't be surprised to find some of the logs with that macro tho 😅

[empty plume]

my point was mainly that it's easy to just not cut that corner, and there are probably many other 1-3% "corners" that will be cut by a player who feels bind-starved on sub

they add up fast, and top players will naturally be doing fewer of them

[hollow spear]

For sure, no disagreement on the dance symbol macro

[empty plume]

(on any class/spec as a generalization for wow skill, sub aside)

[hybrid compass]

1st mythic raid boss sub or fatebound assa

[hazy breach]

Whatever you play the best really

[hollow spear]

I'm talking more about people asking about next level min maxing who obviously have no clue about the basics

[vale pine]

fractilus is where assassintion is clearly better
last 2 sub is
the rest is whatever you want.
BUt as eleem mentioned, please play what you are comfortable with, as subtlety won't perform well if you are not already familiar with it.

[hoary anvil]

Does it make a difference if i symbols slightly before my dance+stab?

[vale pine]

you want to use it in a way

to have supercharger on secret

but if we talk about millisecond diffrences, it does not matter which order you do

[empty plume]

if you have inevitability you prob want it before the stab at least

[hoary anvil]

its minuscule, my symbols is next to my [1] key and dance+stab macro on my [Q] key, thus im using the same finger

[short timber]

guys, is it bug that when i try to shadowstrike from melee range, i cant do that? its like i get out of stealth and i do no dmg, no combo points. i have to backstab. It always works from range.

for example on Dimencius first add when you spawn, i cant attack it with shadowstrike on pull, impossible

[glacial kraken]

r u in stealth

[short timber]

im not dumb

[narrow panther]

How do we go about rupture in m+?

Is it like assa where we spread it out on everything or

[glacial kraken]

it was bugged before when u take the gate, you'd be desealthed

[chrome fern]

@vale pine is there any reason (other than to pull a sectec) that we'd not want symbols macro'd to sectec?

[glacial kraken]

but that's no longer the case

[narrow panther]

just a few prio targets?

[limpid sage]

Sounds like something is bringing you out of stealth?

Never had that issue

[short timber]

and its not a macro, just a button. could be elvui issue? its been buggy lately..

[swift tinsel]

are you right-clicking the add while still in stealth

and auto-attacking yourself out of stealth

[hollow raptor]

whats like the correct timing to hold burst for forgeweaver

I see people holding until around 20 seconds into the fight and thats when the add arrows show up but they dont spawn for another lke 8 seconds

[chrome fern]

if you are too slow / behind the rest of the team, isn't there raid wide damage that will rip you out of stealth

[glacial kraken]

can't imagien that's occuring

dunno what group would not do a cd

[swift tinsel]

idk I have the add targeted while flying over, strike it then start hitting dimmy to cleave and never have stealth issues

[short timber]

No, left clicking, but thanks for legit questions and suggestions

[swift tinsel]

not sure what it could be then tbh

can't say I've ever experienced it there

[short timber]

It happens when I’m not attacking, before a pull only on first click to engage

Damn it

[glacial kraken]

only tings i know that remove stealth are like

belt wrong power and the bad dagger

but you'd defs know by now if u had the wrong dagger

[chrome fern]

don't have a log where it happens?

[short timber]

If I delete me WTF folder I would lose addon settings no?

[left ledge]

Yes

[glacial kraken]

yes

don't delete that

[limpid sage]

Do you press trinket before you open

And do you have forgemasters

[short timber]

Damn it, but my game is buggy af, for example I suddenly cannot use middle button as a keybind 🤔🤔 like it binds, but then when I click it nothing happens hahha

[left ledge]

So you can’t shadowstrike only on the very first global of the fight while in stealth? But you can strike every other time?

[limpid sage]

Prob reaching here xd

[short timber]

And I’ve been playing this game since wotlk and never had such problems

[glacial kraken]

btw im sure people know

[left ledge]

Have you tried hard logging out

Sitting for 20 seconds

Not exit game

Not alt f4

[glacial kraken]

don't shadowstrike the two adds in the laser rooms lol

[swift tinsel]

this raid has def caused me the most graphic issues

of any

ever

[limpid sage]

Sometimes modifiers get stuck as well

Happens every time I press a modifier in loading screen for example

[chrome fern]

i can't use middle mouse as a bind with an @mouseover

[limpid sage]

And then I have to tap the modifier again for it to reset

[short timber]

Like if I crawl behind a target and try to press shadowstrike nothing happen

[chrome fern]

that's always been an issue for me

[left ledge]

Can you try to log out and wait the 20 sec for it to log you out

Then exit game (not alt f4)

It has to go the 20 seconds

[jade hill]

Heya, could anyone share their keybind for sub rogue, I feel like i set it up like a baka and im breaking my fingers >.>

[left ledge]

Our feral Druid couldn’t press mark

Until he logged out like that

[empty plume]

step 1: esdf movement keys

UNLOCK YOUR PINKY

on god

[jade hill]

that sounds scary to learn for other classes muscle memory xd

[left ledge]

My pinky is a shift presser

[lucid jackal]

Keybinds are just a preference thing so idk

[left ledge]

If it not pressing shift it might as well be chopped off

[lucid jackal]

This what I use but

[left ledge]

(And ctrl)

[empty plume]

my setup is kinda weird

[left ledge]

Like guy said though all personal preference

Your hand size and keyboard matters too

And your mouse

[empty plume]

i have a mouse with only two thumb buttons, and they are bound to ctrl + alt

bis btw

[left ledge]

I have keybinds up to 7 some people think that too much

[left ledge]

Our sprint and kick the same

[jade hill]

my current setup, dont murder me xd

[chrome fern]

1 - shadowstrike
2 - backstab
3 - rupture
4 - eviscerate
5 - sectec + blades
~ - sectec + cb
q - dance
f - Flag + trinket

Dont judge me

[left ledge]

Is sprint shift r for everyone

Jfc

[lucid jackal]

flag trinket is bad

[chrome fern]

i know

i need to relearn it

[lucid jackal]

Then change the macro?

Theres nothing to relearn

[chrome fern]

my brain says otherwise

[serene notch]

What mouse you guys using??

[lucid jackal]

What?

Change the macro..?

[empty plume]

LOL

[chrome fern]

then i'll forget to press trinket entirely

XD

[lucid jackal]

..?

[chrome fern]

hence i need to relearn

[empty plume]

just macro it to blades

[lucid jackal]

Its a macro

[empty plume]

instead of flag

[lucid jackal]

U macro it to blades

[empty plume]

lmao

[lucid jackal]

theres nothing to relearn

[empty plume]

flag is like a ramping pre-cooldowns cooldown

blades is the real cd

[chrome fern]

i know i know

[lucid jackal]

stop saying i know just change your macro

[serene notch]

I’m so scrubby i macro pots to flag t-t

[chrome fern]

im playing 2 classes, 3 specs

and i have adhd

[lucid jackal]

WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING

[warm marlin]

affix seems good in 10 priory

[empty plume]

change macro -> press the same buttons -> profit

[chrome fern]

there is a long list of things i need to change XD

[left ledge]

I have:

1 - stab
2 - strike
3 - evis
4 - cheap shot
5 - kidney shot
6 - shiv
7 - slice
E - step
Q - sap
Shift 1 - rupture
Shift 3 - black powder
Shift 5 - storm
T - Sectec
F - CB sectec
X - Flag
Shift W - blades

[lucid jackal]

[empty plume]

could be done by now

[serene notch]

Pretty much god comp for you sans a Druid

[light rune]

What does this means? "Use Shuriken Storm between the regular and 4-Set Bonus casts of Coup de Grace."

[chrome fern]

im not in game, 3:30 am snoozin on discord

[hazy breach]

If you are not at 6+ combo points

And you have your 4p coup proc active as well as blades

Press storm

[light rune]

INside Shadow Dance you just press ShuStorm in this case? For the rest SS?

A file? D:

[short timber]

ehh

im 31

[chrome fern]

the v in mkv stands for virus

[empty plume]

use streamable (free website, drag and drop the file into it)

[short timber]

sec

[empty plume]

makes a clip

[steel jolt]

if you make it a mp4 it will embed

[chrome fern]

👀

[light rune]

Totally gonna download a file on a random discord, full or rogue players

Don't want no Valeera Porn shite

[warm marlin]

am dumbass and downloaded it

[chrome fern]

so fr fr, snipping tools my guys

has a screen record function

[warm marlin]

you pressed it slightly out of melee so it didnt jump maybe due to server delay? and then your melee was on because you hit a melee ability and auto attacked breaking your stealth

[empty plume]

Ryldd is discord hacked, just sent me a porn link

[steel jolt]

Ryldd just DMed me and asked me if i wanted to test his "game"

[warm marlin]

its a great new game

[empty plume]

he said he had no shadowstrike macro, I wouldn't think it /startattacks naturally

[chrome fern]

Ryldd promised me with this one hack i can get up to 2x longer

[warm marlin]

you should try it

[short timber]

i had it with macro
/shadowstrike
/startattack
I blame my bugged ui, thanks guys for caring 😄

[limpid sonnet]

more ppl haaving problem with tricks ? says should last an hour as buff but only works as 30 sec

[chrome fern]

😮

[light rune]

/cast Shadowstrike

[chrome fern]

i will be super honest, i have never seen /startattack in a macro

[empty plume]

/startattack [nostealth]

[hazy breach]

Hit something

[chrome fern]

but i swear hunters have that shit bound

[strange geode]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[high eagle]

I think BM still faces issues with pet attack being slower by default via letting the game do it vs. manually macroing it into your spammable buttons.

[chrome fern]

yeah but they also like click the boss when we are just waiting and suddenly boss is pulled

[high eagle]

Oh, I think that's the right click start attack then. Pretty sure that's in settings somewhere.

[astral axle]

custom-made joystick?

[strange geode]

CB only for single target? And Tea for AoE?

Is that correct?

[light rune]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

You can also use cb in m+

In raid you won't play tea even on cleave heavy fights

[strange geode]

Okay thanks

[exotic zephyr]

i cant find the specific raid boss talents

can anyone send me a link pls D:

[distant mist]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[vale pine]

most people just run the single target talents on all fights.
WoWhead/icy veins has boss speicific suggestions iirc.
Most hands on is probably Warcraft logs you can see what top parses are running.

[cerulean beacon]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[stuck linden]

First time playing a new spec since BFA. Really enjoying sub so far. Just need to wait for next week so I can get my vault and craft a weapon if I need to.

[flint tartan]

If am in shadow dance, and i press shadow strike and it gives me 5 or 6 combo points, is it worth to press another shadowstrike and do secret technique? or its better to press a 5 or 6 points on secret technique?

[real hare]

do we bother putting rupture on all targets in AoE m+?

[limpid sage]

5 combo points you want to use another builder, 6 you send

[warm marlin]

has anyone tested cloaking the tank soak on nexus

dungeon journal says its a part physical hit but as far as i can tell cloak is full immuning it

[alpine wraith]

you can 1 sec cloak it

but i'd rather save cloak for other things tbh

[warm marlin]

sounds plausible

[alpine wraith]

healers already popping everything popable

maybe for an unlucky double claw situation

[warm marlin]

as long as i dont get double banish i seem immortal

[hybrid compass]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[quaint nimbus]

With the update to cold blood does the cold blood and secret technique macro not working anymore?

[warm marlin]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[quaint nimbus]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[cursive vapor]

that one storm inbetween the 2 coups is only only when flag is active right?

[alpine wraith]

blades

[cursive vapor]

oh yea meant that sry

thx

[alpine wraith]

flag lasts a little bit longer

so you can get confused

[untold basin]

What's the simmed % increase from 2pc to 4pc in M+?

[ornate lake]

Guys is Sub a good pumper in M+? Worth spending gilded crests on sub embellishments as an assa main?

[alpine wraith]

around 20% increase depending on gear

sub is very good in m+

[dry plank]

Embellish doesn’t matter

[alpine wraith]

you can craft ascendance is you want

sub does fine with it

[ornate lake]

One thing I always struggled with sub in keys is SecTech usage outside of Flag/Blades

Is there a timer beyond which I should hold sec tech?

[little epoch]

for sub m+ do we sim DS or Patch +8 target 1min?

[swift tinsel]

I usually go with 20-30sec left on flag cd depending on cdr

[alpine wraith]

dungeon slice but for gearing

dont try to think that is the dps we do in a key

[little epoch]

so as an indicator DS shows me Netherprism(704) and Antenna(710) and Patchwerk 8 targets 1min shows me Lily(710) and Soleah Secret Technique(723)

what is more reliant for my case for pushing keys?

[alpine wraith]

always prism

and antenna is better than lilly and solea yes

[paper surge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[spark ridge]

How do I convince my guilds priests to give me pi since my burst is so good?

[hazy breach]

[hallow night]

I got mythic raid tonight. What type of sim should I use to min max my stats? I plan on only playing sub on naazindri and araz.

[spark ridge]

I’m thinking about posting my non-pi sim with low ilvl daggers and no raid buffs and my pi sim with all buffs what do u guys think

[hollow spear]

You won't even notice that you have pi

[hallow night]

Offer feet picture

[hollow spear]

Sometimes I accidentally get it and the icon distracts me

[hallow night]

Feet picture icon would distract me too buddy

[tulip token]

Do dungeon slice sims do well with double on use? Wondering if forge/prism would be better than prism/pace

[hallow night]

I’m using pace because I got a myth track one, and I also have no prism and I also have no forge

But yeah logs in high keys use double on use plenty

[tulip token]

I just have them all on hero currently.

Alright good to know. I’ll give it some keys and see how it goes ❤️

[hazy breach]

It alternates them every blades like you'd expect yes

I'd recommend pace but

[hallow night]

Do you need forge and prism for it to be viable? Lily on use seems too weak

[tulip token]

Tbh if that’s the case then I’ll just go with the sims and if it’s close I’d go pace for ease of mind lol.

[cerulean beacon]

can someone please remind me how many seconds before flag/SB come back up i need to stop using dances and symbols?

[hazy breach]

~30s

[cerulean beacon]

i think i counted 35 seconds? but i dunno

alrite

[hazy breach]

As a rule of thumb

You want 1 charge and 30s left on your second charge of dance when you press flag

[chrome fern]

what do we do if we get enough cdr to hit sectec inside the opener dance. do we immediately send the second dance or wait a few

[hazy breach]

Immediately send dance either way

[lucid jackal]

Make sure the pi sim is 1 minute as well

[spark ridge]

good call

[compact cobalt]

New to rogue and haven't noticed but does sending a second dance while first dance is active does it just reset the timer or extend it?

[hazy breach]

You cant dance while dance is up

[hallow night]

I’ve found you can’t press it

Pretty annoying tbh

[compact cobalt]

Ah okay

[hallow night]

But it rewards very precise button press timing

[flat pecan]

Thx, I think this might be a huge problem in my play, I'm doing another dance/symbols at like 28 seconds left on my SB, and then my flag/sb feels clunky.

[hallow night]

Like you might have to press dance, sod, cold blood, and sec tech all in under a global if you went into the first dance with enough shadow crafts

[lucid jackal]

That's why I put symbols and dance on mouse button

[short timber]

is it always worth to use ShurikenS between 4set CtG procs, even if i have to do it 2 or 3 times to get 6 CP?

[hazy breach]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[empty plume]

is it worth to vanish storm for premed full cp or is sacrificing the shadowstrike not worth

feel like i've seen some coup-vanishstorm-coup in logs

[short timber]

yea but is it worth using more than once between? what if i use shuriken storm and only get 3 cp, do i Shuriken 2nd time?

[empty plume]

outside blades

[empty plume]

within blades, storm will always be full cp

[short timber]

yep but what about small burst?

[hazy breach]

You can do it but its the same as not doing it

In sims

So

[hazy breach]

Since it says "During shadow blades" you wouldnt do it outside of blades

[short timber]

thanks, true

[real hare]

See anything wrong with this?

First key as sub. 10 priory

[crude badge]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[flat pecan]

My crit is abysmal, might be another reason I feel like I'm just not pullin the proper dps 😩 , only 3k crit, gotta ditch these dumb haste rings

[cerulean beacon]

do you guys also send a third dance/symbols if these are up after the opening flag/SB?

[civic tusk]

Hi Gents,

Anyone tried this WA?
https://wago.io/ZpPc-YY4v

My struggle as newbie rogue is identifying when to BP & when to EVI. both in & out Shadow dance...

Wondered if this is accurate & anyone tested this one out yet.
Thx

[empty plume]

damage spread will vary by dungeon and pull style, nothing identifiably troll here (sectech and bp compete for 2/3, if you BP less you will have higher nimble, hard to say without seeing the pulls etc)

[hazy breach]

Sectech > Coup > BP at 4 or more > Evis
This is the finisher priority

[manic salmon]

if you play the rotten you can just shuriken storm after every sod press and it will pretty much have full uptime until you need to send next (your damage outside of your cds is not really relevant for find weakness uptime)

[real hare]

ok ty, tried to sim a dungeon slice and it give me somewhat same damage style.

Still very unoptimized gameplay. used flag without 2x shadow dance ready and such

[flat pecan]

Honestly I didn't know we really used BP much? I usually just secret technique -> evisc spam, at 4 or more targets BP is better than evisc with the cleave buff up??

[empty plume]

m+ aoe feeds a lot of cp to get extra dances and sectechs, so it can be awkward to eyeball how many you'll get before big cds

[empty plume]

if you're hitting a target with twice as much HP as the other targets you can do ST rotation for prio damage

but bp is good

[flat pecan]

jeez, that's good to know, tyty, have not been doing that

[solemn lance]

what builds are people leaning toward in keys other then moving between CD and Tea. I seem to be finding better overall running deeper daggers and rotten over 2 finality

[civic tusk]

I get the theory, but it becomes hectic in combat. just wondered if this WA I linked was & easy "prio-helper" & anyone used it with accuracy

Thx for the feedback

[manic salmon]

sure but, with rotten you dont really need to pay too much attention to it

because it will be up for 100% of the send whenever you send... if you ss after sod

and thats when it matters most really

me personally i whitelist my debuffs and have FW show up on nameplates as well as rupture

[civic tusk]

Have the same... but OK... Keep practicing I guess :x thx

[manic salmon]

yeah, the best way to improve is to play more and play smart

the more you play the more you get used to the playstyle

and you are free to experiment

[dusk stone]

i feel like its really hard to say one build is better than the other when sims have different builds so close and there's no consistency between runs usually

[iron plover]

Once I got 4 set I find my BPing goes down a lot with all the coups

[solemn lance]

yeh thats what im finding, i have 2 different builds that sim simlarly. one is a little better ST damage and the ohter 2 better aoe but not massivley different

[flat pecan]

Speaking of Coup, is there anything people are doing with 4pc to optimize that? Or do you just sorta let it rip when its up? I find most of mine aren't getting overcharged combo points or whatever and I wasn't sure if I should be setting up with symbols to get both boosted or if it's more of a thing you just hit asap

[hazy breach]

Overcharging coup is the same as overcharging eviscerate

So it doesnt matter

sure the second one does ~30% more, but thats still far less than sectech does, so you just focus on getting the sectech

[flat pecan]

oh, I thought coup hit harder?

word

[hazy breach]

Well

Coup is a 12 cp finisher

So making it 15 cp

[limpid sage]

It does but only because it counts as sending with 5 CP more

[hazy breach]

Isnt as big of an increase

Compared to 10 instead 7

For sectech

[flat pecan]

oooh

[hazy breach]

And its the same amount of damage per cp as eviscerate

(since it is eviscerate)

[flat pecan]

goootcha yeah its just like a reskinned / fancier animation for a high cp evisc

[iron plover]

Except with a longer animation time

[flat pecan]

I'm assuming the answer is no but is there like any viability in deathstalker or whatever the other hero tree is? It seems thematically cool but I read it and it just seems, not nearly as good?

[vast bolt]

yo how much do y guys SIM in pure mno as SUB pls ?

St*

[flat pecan]

I sim single target around 4.2m or something

[rustic raven]

540k

[vast bolt]

For wich ilvl ?

[flat pecan]

702

[sleek musk]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[hazy breach]

No, sub only has 1 hero talent

[bleak wind]

can you filter out MCs on nexus king in logs?

is there a filter expression for it

[flat pecan]

so maybe I'm weird but I do macro blades/symbol/dance, and I have 2 SecTecs, one with and one without CB, is there really a strong reason to not macro dance/symbols these days? Otherwise it just feels kinda wild to have to press so many buttons in a row before you start DPSing when they're all off the GCD and I'm hitting them all anyways?

[hazy breach]

In general trickster flows decently well and amplifies what youre already doing anyway, whereas deathstalker puts things in your way that you need play around in annoying ways

[lucid jackal]

.

@flat pecan

[glacial wind]

whats the sub rogue macro for using one tea instead of 2 by mistake

[flat pecan]

Interesting, I guess I just sort of overlap my symbols then?

[lucid jackal]

Unsure what Ur asking

[mental kettle]

worth a talent swap on high HoA keys?

[lucid jackal]

Sure

[hazy breach]

Should probably be playing improved crippling anyway

Against the smallies

[mental kettle]

which smallies

[cerulean beacon]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[hazy breach]

the ones that run away when theyre low hp

[midnight stratus]

does dungeon slice work for sim sub?

[flat pecan]

ah sry lol, was more of a statement than a question--I AM overlapping my symbols.

[hazy breach]

Symbols pandemics so its completely fine

!pandemic

[wicked jolt]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[tall hatch]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[real hare]

In aoe, when do we evi and when do we bp?

Looking at casualaddict he almost always evi with CDs up

[lucid jackal]

4 or more targets bp is more damage

But if u want more prio u evis anyway

[late elm]

how to improve guys https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FHgtC2vfbadBZhP4?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=5

[sullen oriole]

is there a way to proc shadow techniques more often?

i dont see myself getting stacks as often as other ppl i watch

[civic tusk]

got the same confusion watching him xD and it's often... where the choice is made to evi instead of BP..

[midnight stratus]

prio dam

[lucid jackal]

I literally just answered it

[civic tusk]

I never said you didn't... just acknowledged the confusion

[lucid jackal]

[cursive vapor]

[swift tinsel]

[astral axle]

[wintry seal]

Al dani 14.

[proven plover]

hdr was a mistake

[haughty mural]

https://tenor.com/view/flashbang-gif-22572243

[haughty mural]

That is a bright screenshot

[wintry seal]

YES SORRY.

[cursive vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/reaction-my-eyes-cant-unsee-burn-gif-7225082

[wintry seal]

Sorry. 🥲

[hollow spear]

I can almost read the figures on top of the yellow

[vale pine]

not sorry

[feral knot]

cursed

[wintry seal]

This flash more than my screen.

[vale pine]

(did not know they turned light mode into pure white, thats rly burning my eyes)

[vale widget]

Oh shit my eyes

[cursive vapor]

k i gotta try whitemode for a sec

aaaaaaaahhhhhhh

[vale widget]

3 priorys to get ring, it was less painful than lily farm

Goodbye jastor

[vale pine]

its aweful

light mode was a lot better with the less white light theme

[cursive vapor]

you guys use the darker mode or the real dark/black mode?

[warm marlin]

as long as i can remember light mode has been blinding

[vale widget]

Dude, I have lights on here
And clicking the image made me feel like I was looking to the sun

[vale pine]

i use the default

[strange geode]

why dont we macro SB + SD + SoD + trinkets and so on, since we usually use them together no?

[vale widget]

It seems more darker than fuu's one for some reason

[cursive vapor]

[vale pine]

haha, ye youtube suggested it

i going to see if its good

[dusk stone]

is there anything to causes the debuff from the interrmission on last boss dawnbreaker to become shorter?

had almost timed it until that debuff decided to last 6 seconds instead of 20

[blissful gyro]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[cursive vapor]

yes thats the black black mode

[vale widget]

Nah, theres a darker one

[astral axle]

which discord display setting do i need to do the most damage as sub rogue

[cursive vapor]

idk man this is my discord

[vale widget]

Beautiful

[cursive vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/ronald-mcdonald-point-wink-gif-1122406417951465225

[young egret]

!weakaura

[terse dirge]

do you guys always try to dump points before going into a dance?

for premed value

[steady coral]

!talents

[young roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vestal escarp]

pls eviscerate 🤞 pls eviscerate 🤞 pls eviscerate 🤞 pls eviscerate 🤞 pls eviscerate 🤞 pls eviscerate 🤞 pls eviscerate 🤞

[swift tinsel]

?

[dusk stone]

they really need to fix dawnbreaker

that was infuriating

[warm marlin]

you need to pick up the yellow orbs

unless that's not what you're referring to

you can always fly direct to the platform and make it if you spam all your vigor and use the 3 charges ability

[dusk stone]

we had 6 seconds to do that

not the usual 20

both me and the mage died from it

the shaman was saying something about yellow orbs to extend the debuff but that shouldnt be neccessary y'know?

[hoary anvil]

to get on last phase of last boss?

[haughty mural]

He is coping for a buff

[hoary anvil]

we always go directly to the platform

[dusk stone]

thats what we did

you get a debuff that if you don't make it to platform in time you die, it usually lasts 20ish seconds, this last time it lasted less than a third of that

[hoary anvil]

shouldn't there be a guy on the last platform holding a lamp to prevent dying from it?

[dusk stone]

couldnt make it there

was very close

[hoary anvil]

weird, hasnt happened to me, flying tru boats however

[dusk stone]

it was really unfortunately it was a two chest as well almost

was almost 7m overall

i think there's a way to game the system with the yellow blessing but idk how to test that outside of a key instance

[left ledge]

Lmao

I don’t think we will even appear in the tuning

It gonna be a classic ctrl+f rogue 0 moment

[lucid jackal]

Why would we?

Probs sin gets bug fixed, maybe outlaw gets a buff

[lunar bluff]

guys how much dmg is uhhh skyfury worth for sub in m+

[dusk stone]

3.2% in dslice afaik

[clever delta]

what is the tunning everyone talkin about

[vale widget]

Idk, someone hours ago said tunning and now Im just waiting for bluepost

[bleak night]

[tall hatch]

Cam some1 help me understand something?
I see builds in m+ without cold blood. Isn’t it supposed to be used with sec tech?

[grave zenith]

if i do my cb + second sectech at the last moment of my shadow blades duration can i lose the amp on the damge from the shadows?

[swift tinsel]

I'd be very surprised to see sub catch any buffs or nerfs, none are really warranted atm

if anything maybe a forge nerf idk

even then

[hazy breach]

Yes your sectech does damage ~1s later than when you press the button and it does not snapshot your buffs

Whats up when sectech hits is what its getting

[hazy breach]

You can play tea instead of cb if you want

macro it to dance and forget about it

[tiny mauve]

can someone explain why we shuriken storm in between coup 4 pc procs?

[cursive vapor]

instead of sectec?

[swift tinsel]

new cook

lfg

[tall hatch]

my question also..

[swift tinsel]

Lashga build

[void needle]

sectech overrated

It doesn't even hit that hard these days

[swift tinsel]

Coupmaxxing

[hazy breach]

I meant cb

[void needle]

Spend both superchargers on coup, don't even path through sectech

[grave zenith]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[swift tinsel]

hey ds becomes more viable

[tall hatch]

thats more likely

[hazy breach]

For deathstalker in pure aoe you can skip sectech

[void needle]

What if they gigabuffed ds in the tuning patch

[swift tinsel]

would still be the worst hero tree in the game

[void needle]

I mean I wouldn't play it, but it would be cool ig

Even if it got like a 30% buff, I can't go back

[fast elbow]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[swift tinsel]

with the 4pc you either need to take shadowcraft to have enough cdr for 2x sectech in blades but risk not supercharging/marking sectech or not take shadowcraft to avoid getting trolled by resets and never get 2x sectech in blades

peak design

[void needle]

What even is ds 4 set?

[swift tinsel]

sod consumes a stack of mark

[grave zenith]

does the shadowcraft refund wa work for you guys? because it doesn't for me

[swift tinsel]

it adds so much obfuscation to gameplay

[haughty mural]

[swift tinsel]

and makes DN/mark bug feel so much worse

[north schooner]

haptics is eager about the next patch hitting PTR just so he can spend time with his best friend again 👍 🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♀️

[swift tinsel]

lmao I should call him

[void needle]

Wow nothing does any damage with deathstalker, I did 3 minutes on the 5 target dummies and ended at around 7m dps overall. 50% of that damage was bp, 10% was blades. Nothing else did jackshit

[hazy breach]

You probably used darkest night during dances instead of BP

[void needle]

With ds you do storm during blades instead of ss right?

[wicked urchin]

anyone know can you cloak the reavers ground swirly in halls?

[void needle]

singular focus is better damage?

[left ledge]

There would be no reason to strike

[astral axle]

with ds you just don't

[hazy breach]

Can strike for a danse stack with premed up

But thats about it

Or well

You also want to use it to apply the mark

Since you dont want to use eviscerate really

[left ledge]

Shadowstrike over evis

Wait you don’t even consume DN?

[void needle]

I used my darkest night evis after dance

[hazy breach]

BP does more damage than DN at 4 targets

[left ledge]

LMAO

But I mean if it is between strike and evis

Why strike over the DN

[hazy breach]

Because it builds cp

[wicked urchin]

all this conversation is telling me is that i never want to play DS again

[left ledge]

Hmm I see

[dusk stone]

is there a list of dawnbreaker bugs anywhere

[left ledge]

Evis is that shit huh

[hazy breach]

But unfortunately clear the witnesses does a lot

So you would want to strike other targets to reapply your mark

So you get another clear the witnesses

Hero talent is just too cursed

[void needle]

I thought that rupture would do more, but it's worse than on trickster

[left ledge]

Huh

Wait I’m confused

You want to mark other targets?

[hazy breach]

When you strike a second target that doesnt have the mark you move the mark ye

And when you apply the mark you get clear the witnesses

[left ledge]

Wouldn’t reapplying the mark on same target proc it?

[hazy breach]

Which is more valueable than DN

[hazy breach]

Well not if its still up

[left ledge]

So you would strike bp storm bp strike diff target?

[void needle]

Ok let me try again applying mark to different targets

[hazy breach]

yE

[keen trellis]

Stupid question but when we are holding coup for flag (~20s iirc) and rupture is already up, do we flag > dance +sod + coup or use flag > bp and then go into dance+sod+backstab > coup?
I usually just reapply rupture cause of muscle memory but is there a optimization for that?

[left ledge]

Holy fuck

That’s so ass

[dusk stone]

its 10s for coup not 20

[left ledge]

There’s no way that’s that big over just striking when DN is up right

[hazy breach]

No literally play it the same as usual with flag>rupture>backstab>sectech

[keen trellis]

Wasnt 10s not using finishers?

[hazy breach]

with dance and symbols right before backstab

[keen holly]

how to use 2ST within tfd?

[keen trellis]

got it thanks!

[hazy breach]

Get good procs

[left ledge]

If you get the sectec up again with 2 sec to spare sod and sectec

If you don’t

Use it in second dance

[hazy breach]

Yes deathstalker is just cursed

And like i said earlier no sectech builds are pretty close in aoe

[keen holly]

so the second hit from the sectec must be inside tfd duration?

[left ledge]

Inside the dance yeah

[hazy breach]

The second hit must be inside any dance

Not necessarily the first one

[left ledge]

It’s 1.3 sec for all of sectec I think

So if you get it up last sec spam dance

[hazy breach]

Like its not "gotta use 2 sectechs inside tfd"

Its "use sectech as soon as possible"

[sharp lake]

a lot of specs in this game have like a raid hero talent and a m+ hero talent but Sub is so weird for having a PvE hero talent and a PvP hero talent

[left ledge]

Man I kinda want to try DS out

I’m just not a fan of target swapping to apply marks for clear the witnesses

[keen holly]

great help thx

[raw flicker]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[dusk stone]

i tried it in a key accidentally, it was a mistake

[left ledge]

Wait

Why does DS have 0 sectec interactions

[void needle]

Yeah, so target switching your mark going into blades to spend more clear the witness is more damage. But this shit sucks

[hazy breach]

Ye

[left ledge]

wtf does sectec even do on DS

Why would you even talent it

[swift tinsel]

nothing

[hazy breach]

Its just a slightly better finisher

[void needle]

No damage lmao

[left ledge]

[void needle]

It was like 10% of my overall. Rupture did more damage at 5 targets

[swift tinsel]

Lingering is the only interaction it gets I'm pretty sure

[left ledge]

I think I will do a brew non sectec build

[void needle]

How do you path gloomblade big dog?

[left ledge]

Is momentum > follow the blood

[left ledge]

You don’t because of dragonflight

[void needle]

I ran momentum over ftb

[hazy breach]

Momentum literally doesnt do anything as assa

So i imagine its the same for sub

[left ledge]

Yeah seems like follow the blood is just… more damage?

But I hate choice nodes with math like this

[void needle]

I think it sims better? Idk I ripped the first ds build off wowhead because I can't be fucked to test them

[hazy breach]

Ye but you must remember that nothing in deathstalker does what it says it does

As it doesnt work on shadowed finishers

So its like 2/3s of what it says

[left ledge]

Sad part is

I think it is going to do heavy aoe

[left ledge]

Wait

Why did you go all the way down there

And not take swift death

[hazy breach]

CUQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM2mBAAAAAALjxy0YGYmxYmZmZmZmhxsNMmx2MzgZGjxMLz2AAAAYmBDbmlBGwGYZYCZWgB
Is what i have as the highest simming from a while back on ptr

[void needle]

Maybe I go rs instead of tornado, but tornado feels like it's the only burst I get when I use it to smash 3 bp into blades

[oak nymph]

[void needle]

No death perception?

[left ledge]

Ty

[hazy breach]

Well yeah its cursed

[haughty mural]

Ds is so cursed on sub

It’s so hilarious

[left ledge]

I will sac shadowcraft for death perception

[hazy breach]

Wait it cant be that, it has pv without anything under

Idk either way it doesnt burst that hard so death perception isnt as good

[astral axle]

holy

[haughty mural]

Don’t worry guys in midnight sectech is added to darkest night and momentum

[astral axle]

i only just now realized the talent is called "death perception"

not "depth perception"

[haughty mural]

It’s also called symbols of death

And not symbols of depth

[astral axle]

bro...

[haughty mural]

[left ledge]

I’m PUMPED to try DS

[signal vortex]

guys can anyone help me, i've started playing subs some days ago (assa main) and I'm doing fine on single target, but on Aoe i can't seem to do enough dmg in opener X_X can anyone list the opener in aoe?

[left ledge]

Same thing except you press bp instead of evis when coup isn’t up

[haughty mural]

So you can finally spec gloomblade again

[void needle]

Yeah, this sims like 10% worse than my other ds build in dslice

[left ledge]

Apply FW with storm outside of dance

Or one storm in a dance

[haughty mural]

Don’t let eleem and stealthi read that

[signal vortex]

i've read it's evis under 4 trargets and bp over 4 targets, but still i'm doing shit dmg on aoe opener, this talents are the right ones?

[haughty mural]

Looks ok

[astral axle]

do you have a log?

[signal vortex]

i do not, i can do one, but i think i've found what i do wrong, i build just with shuriken storm in aoe, no i'm not building towards coup

[haughty mural]

You got it

You press strike in dance

Besides following

[signal vortex]

that is why i wasn't getting coup in aoe pulls

[haughty mural]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[signal vortex]

i'll try on another key, this one i've finished with 4.67m overall, (dawnbreaker)..should be able to reach 6 atleast

[grand viper]

Whats the priority of coup?

[hazy breach]

Sectech > Coup > BP at 4 or more > Evis

Is the finishing priority

[grand viper]

in and our of dance?

out*

[hazy breach]

Generally wouldnt use sectech outside dance

[grand viper]

Yea, i meant more

Do i coup out of dance

[void needle]

YEs

Send it

[grand viper]

sswaggg

ty

[void needle]

Unless you're about to enter a dance

Then save the proc

[grand viper]

I have another question, sorry im new to sub

Lets say my flag and blades comes up mid pull, but i already ruptured the target im on

what do i do with the CPs i built for flag?

[shadow lance]

BP or Evisc

Or rupture another add

[grand viper]

Could you explain why i dont just go straight into dance symbol blades secret tech?

[tepid trellis]

you can

[shadow lance]

Cuz you wana press flag?

[analog plover]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[shadow lance]

You can press flag at 0 cp if you want

[winter ice]

I like to coup > dance/symbol > bs > sectech> strike> coup

If sitting on a proc

[tepid trellis]

you can just if you have max cp go Flag-dance-sectech

thats fine

[grand viper]

okay ty

[shadow lance]

But I would not recommend

[left flame]

!tea

[wicked jolt]

Thistle tea use:
It is recommended to macro Thistle Tea with Shadow Dance like this:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```

[grand viper]

nah thats not what i was asking about, stealthi answered my question. ty tho

[void needle]

You potentially waste a stack of disorienting strikes doing that. Also coup right before dance/sod is just less damage, I get that you want to supercharge the second coup but it's not great

[quiet smelt]

does this look ok for a 13 streets

[grand viper]

Why do we not shuriken storm in our dance for Danse Macabre?

but we backstab

[hazy breach]

Shuriken storm does not proc unseen blade

[grand viper]

Ahh okay

[rain vessel]

you do between coups, but you also dont have endless gcds

[grand viper]

But backstab and shadowstrike does

gotcha

makes sense

[tiny mauve]

do we shuriken storm between coups even if we're at full combo points from shadowcraft?

[hazy breach]

No

You would not use a combo point generator if you do not need to generate combo points

[tiny mauve]

so just coup back to back?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[sick basin]

Hey, trying to start learning some sub and quick question, is there any reason why you wouldnt macro Shadow Blades and Flagellation together?

[sturdy obsidian]

Guys, if I understand correctly we use BP as finisher on 4 targets+ but I saw another video that recommended using it on 6+. Can you help a brother out?

[hazy breach]

Because theyre ideally not used at the same time

[sick basin]

Oh so you stagger

[void needle]

Old video

[hazy breach]

Old video or theyre wrong

[sick basin]

for buff duration?

[sturdy obsidian]

Ok gotcha thx for swift answer

What changed? Just out of curiosity

[hazy breach]

!guide shows the opener/burst sequence and how to use the cds

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[hazy breach]

They buffed bp

[sturdy obsidian]

Ahhh right. Perfect.. thanks a bunch

Didnt realise the video was a few months old lol

[spare quiver]

anyone has the wa of the prism trinket

[violet palm]

!log

[analog plover]

hello guys, is there a macro that prevents us from spamming symbols ?

[hazy breach]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[compact iron]

how ofter should i use netherprism on M+? with every shadowblades use just wait for hugh stacks?

[willow mantle]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[analog plover]

i love you so much actually thx a log

lot*

[willow mantle]

!tier

[wicked jolt]

Tier set:
Best Slots: Head, Chest, Hands, Legs
Strength: 2p (~10% dps) | 4p (~20% dps) -> Combined: ~30%.
Note: Try to get the 4set asap.

[hazy breach]

Either works

Just depends on when you need the damage

[dusk stone]

do you have prism

[compact iron]

aight gotcha

[willow mantle]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[willow mantle]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tender granite]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[signal vortex]

i do not, i'm using lily and astral antenna

[short timber]

tell me if im wrong. but i see that my Tea build can pump insane dps, at cost of prio dmg that CB build provides

pros seems to opt into CB across all dungs

time for 2x sub comps

[compact violet]

Hi, for mm+ on big pack do u spam BP => SS => BP after sectec ?

[lone linden]

ye unless you get coup proc

[compact violet]

but u wont proc if u dont ss

right

[hazy breach]

You almost always strike in dance

No point calling it SS btw

[lone linden]

oh sorry i thought SS was shadowstrike

mb

[hazy breach]

Both shadowstrike and shuriken storm are ss

[tender granite]

is this just because of numbers, or is there a talent interaction that enforces this or something?

[twilit phoenix]

and shadow step

literally 3 SS talents

lunacy

[hazy breach]

If you dont shadowstrike your hero talent doesnt do much

[plush trout]

i saw a lot of sub rogue pushing keys using double cd trink( araz and prism) and they go nuclear, it is that good?

[hazy breach]

Its alright ye

Not required though

[tender granite]

oh right, sorry i've recently picked up rogue again and i'm trying to build familiarity with everything

[plush trout]

around how much dmg should i have in m+ with 704 ilvl

as overall

[willow mantle]

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[willow mantle]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[haughty mural]

That really varies on pulls (tanks), group comp, how packs line up etc etc

key level

And what not