subtlety

[mental kettle]

before 3rd

yes yes

giga pad

giga funnel

[shrewd lantern]

remove the slimes from details

[mental kettle]

i played outlaw

didnt care

[shrewd lantern]

ret is below tank

[mental kettle]

outlaw on that boss tho

was so gated

goated

[gray wedge]

I still play law

[mental kettle]

u had vanish for every debuff

[gray wedge]

It was peak

felt like a god

[mental kettle]

then u go sub for last boss

and blast

[shrewd lantern]

can we shut down outlaw channel until they buff it

[mental kettle]

because outlaw was useless

[shrewd lantern]

asking for a friend

[gray wedge]

I hated that leaving the instance for keys back in DFS3 was the move

[arctic heart]

guys, we use shuriken tornado or not?

[worthy axle]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[gray wedge]

pvp trinket for manor ect

[mental kettle]

eh

i like that

[shrewd lantern]

just be a mage

[mental kettle]

metagme

its fun

[sullen hare]

you can if you want. as for me and my family absolutely not

[shrewd lantern]

and get out the stun natty

[gray wedge]

wdym drop glimmer

[arctic heart]

@sullen hare thank you my guy

[honest basin]

Play it if you like it don't play it if you don't like it

[mental kettle]

i am so glad we dont use tornado anymore

FUCK tornado

awful ability

[honest basin]

I will never spec into nado ever again in my fuckin life after tindral

[sullen hare]

^

[honest basin]

No thank you

[gray wedge]

It seems like bad design to me

[honest basin]

None for me

[mental kettle]

ehhh

[sullen hare]

if they deleted it and just left the node empty I'd be satisfied

[mental kettle]

idk

i think its fine?

[honest basin]

Same

[gray wedge]

If we literally can't kill it, but it's personal af

[shrewd lantern]

if they were smart they could have made tornado

[mental kettle]

since u cant change gear now in keys

[shrewd lantern]

just refund your next 4 finishers

[mental kettle]

which imo would be better

[shrewd lantern]

without eating into sht

but that'd make too much sense

[honest basin]

I hate nado almost as much as I hate dust

[shrewd lantern]

Hell honestly

[mental kettle]

tornado is just redundant

or feels redundant

[shrewd lantern]

just replace it with a talent that makes your next 4 finishers free

imo

[alpine wraith]

if tornado was a cool thing that did dmg and you could feed it from cp to make it keep doing dmg like breath

would be cool as f

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah but rogue isnt allowed nice things

[honest basin]

That would be pretty sick

[mental kettle]

i acc really miss the class design of shadowprisets in s3 of BFA

[honest basin]

Fel barrage/breath type thing

[mental kettle]

when you are trying to keep your voidform

as long as possible

kinda like s2m

[honest basin]

I'd still hate it but at least it wouldn't be dogshit

[mental kettle]

but not s2m

[alpine wraith]

ehehe i had to play surrender to madness

[shrewd lantern]

hot take: i think the class is largely held back from having cool things

[manic portal]

can i run a sword in offhand ? with 10+ il

[alpine wraith]

because my rogue got shit leggos

[shrewd lantern]

because of pvp

[manic portal]

got the crafted one from outlaw

[alpine wraith]

nope sword sucks

just use a hero wep

[shrewd lantern]

Well you can run one

you just lose giga dps

but it works technically

[honest basin]

Yeah

You can but shouldn't

[manic portal]

ok i run the hero one you guys conviced me

with facts and science

[shrewd lantern]

like all your abilities work

but your sht will be griefed

[hollow spear]

A green dagger from the auction house is better than a mythic sword

[viral raft]

Do we use netherprism for m+

and do we use with every shadowblades

or only max stacks?

[shrewd lantern]

is my timestrike dagger from df better

asking for a friend

[hollow spear]

Depends on the pack size

[shrewd lantern]

im gonna equip it for a 100 ilvl parse

just watch

[hollow spear]

Smaller pack with next one big: hold trinket

[honest basin]

I hated farming that fucker dude

[shrewd lantern]

same

also remember the offseason

[honest basin]

67 runs to get my first one, second one dropped #70

[shrewd lantern]

when it was only from m0

[terse ruin]

Yo guys

I see that the build with Cold Blood is played much more than the one with Tea. I tested it myself and built up all my big keys with the Tea build. I then tested Cold Blood, but I feel like the energy wait time is really extremely long. What do you think? Is this normal, or am I messing up my rotation?

[peak lantern]

are there actually good guides for sub this season? meaning youtube videos

[viral raft]

but we never pop it if we dont have SB right?

[honest basin]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[honest basin]

Someone in here does vids I don't remember who and don't wanna embarrass myself by guessing

[glossy turtle]

I play both assa and sub for keys. So when I need to sim for crafts how can I optimise for both specs do I just sim for sub, since assa doesnt care as much about secondaries?

[hazy breach]

Sub doesnt care that much either as long as you dont get haste

[honest basin]

^

[sour void]

Hey guys is there a way to track if "thousand cuts" proct ?

[hazy breach]

No

[honest basin]

I'm currently rocking a crit/mast ascendance dagger with crit/mast writhing bracers in my sub set

[glossy turtle]

so what would you do? just sim for sub?

[shrewd lantern]

I mean literally

[hazy breach]

Or well, pressing backstab and seeing if it procs i guess But thats probably not the answer you were hoping for

[shrewd lantern]

as long as you dont have haste jewelry

you can use the same gear for both

[honest basin]

^

[glossy turtle]

ah great

[shrewd lantern]

you want some crit for sub nowadays anyway

due to stat drs

[honest basin]

It genuinely matters so very little in the grand scheme of things

[shrewd lantern]

and vers for sin

[glossy turtle]

sub likes crit as much as vers?

[terse ruin]

No

[honest basin]

Sub likes crit more than vers once you have over 20k lmao

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah drs are a very real thing

[honest basin]

It's all about DRs

[shrewd lantern]

you're gonna dr heavy if you full send into vers and mastery

rn

[honest basin]

Yup

[glossy turtle]

I have 15 k vers rn as sub

[shrewd lantern]

I literally only swap my neck and rings

between sin and sub

[honest basin]

Your sim will likely have you just under or just over the DR threshold for vers and mastery while wanting the rest to be dumped into crit

[honest basin]

Same brother lol

Especially since I have mythic+crafted dagger

[glossy turtle]

well I was thinking about crafting a ring or neck, since its 680

[shrewd lantern]

well my offhand is nexus one with avoidance

[maiden oar]

does sub usually want more flags or fewer better flags in council style fights? im looking at soul hunters and trying to decide on ideal flag placement

[honest basin]

My neck is vers mastery flood neck with avoidance, and my sin neck is the amplifier with speedge on myth track xd

[glossy turtle]

I just do grear compare and smack every single craft into a different gearset. is that how it should be done?

[mighty citrus]

question about balancing. blizz cant buff our singletarget without buffing our aoe as well right? on frac i feel like a wet noodle unfortunately

[shrewd lantern]

i have a delve neck

i think its identical to big momma one

almost

[honest basin]

Hell yeah brother

[maiden oar]

can weaken flurry and strengthen evisc or something

[shrewd lantern]

[honest basin]

Frac is a terrible fight for sub, I would highly recommend sin for prog purposes on that fight

[alpine wraith]

we do fine on some timers

but overall we are weaker than assa

all rogue specs are passengers kinda tho

same as soul hunters

[honest basin]

Yeah

[alpine wraith]

just dont die

[mighty citrus]

i did, we just killed it and one try i did very good, and most other trys i sucked, cause 4-5 wallbreaks and standing in the back 😄

[honest basin]

We're there for atrophic pison

[alpine wraith]

remember for some reason the dot is an aoe so feint works

[mighty citrus]

need to figgure to farm how to deal with this

[alpine wraith]

as long as you hit the wall you can step to boss

[shrewd lantern]

outlaw is the strongest soulhunters spec

[honest basin]

^

[shrewd lantern]

on logs

[mighty citrus]

for some reason it was OOR

[honest basin]

Outlaw cranks on that fight

It's actually kinda cringe

[shrewd lantern]

cant say im surprised since its constant 2-3 target

[honest basin]

Yeah

[alpine wraith]

outlaw is good on soulhunters after some gear yea

[honest basin]

Something something blade flurry

[shrewd lantern]

guess its also nice

[honest basin]

[shrewd lantern]

that they're the tankiest spec

[maiden oar]

depends on your spread assignment but you can cancel wall break kb with shadowstep and still break wall

shadowstep will put you directly in front of the boss

[pastel geyser]

can i macro flag and shadow blades together

[honest basin]

If I have outlaw gear by the time we get to soul hunters I might send it as long as HO build is playable

[hazy breach]

Bro we just had way too much damage this week on soul hunters so my 18 stacked+second pot at the end only lasted like 4 seconds

[maiden oar]

if your spread spot is front row you have time to get there every time

[honest basin]

I fuckin hate kir

[shrewd lantern]

arent they back to kir gamers

[mighty citrus]

we were told to stay behind for safety reasons

[maiden oar]

if your spread isnt in the front row ask your rl to give you one

[mighty citrus]

so didnt dare to

[maiden oar]

i see

[mighty citrus]

mine was like far left

[honest basin]

I think so which is tragic because I fucking suck at kir build

[maiden oar]

if far left in front you have time to get there after step

but if your rl doesnt like it then yea...

[honest basin]

HO my beloved

[mighty citrus]

but i need to wait till i physically broke the wall?

[honest basin]

Come back to me

[mighty citrus]

i dont get that part

[maiden oar]

no you dont

you can step back the second your guy gets launched

you dont have to connect to the wall

[mighty citrus]

then they lied to me 😄

cause this would make things much easier in terms of uptime

[ripe flame]

if the push animation starts you can safely step

[shrewd lantern]

step a tank

tbh

[alpine wraith]

the 6 minutes curse

same thing happens on loom

[maiden oar]

evil guys

[mighty citrus]

ty guys

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah thats one thing i kind of envy about outlaw

they dont really give a shit about kill times

as hard

[honest basin]

Yeah they just sit there and vibe

[shrewd lantern]

that and mobility tbh

hook is so comfy

and sprint cdr

[honest basin]

Hook is fucking goated man idk why shadow step still requires a target :/

[maiden oar]

but yea i think stepping boss is ethical bc u are moving towards your spread spot quicker than most guys who werent kbed

i havent had any problems stepping bos s

[honest basin]

Really wish step was just a teleport

[shrewd lantern]

yeah only way you're getting around step needing a target

is step friendly macros

[maiden oar]

only issue is guy behind me overlapping a bit

so i tap w

[ripe flame]

yea and you fly with a weird like superman animation sometimes

[maiden oar]

w into boss

[manic portal]

also when do you guys replace the belt ?

[warm marlin]

[ripe flame]

W

[maiden oar]

get popped backwards

overlap guy behind me again

wahoo!

[crisp pond]

@hazy breach hi sir are u busy?

[shrewd lantern]

thats a sin ring

[maiden oar]

so dont panic tap w if youre too close to fract

[shrewd lantern]

if i've ever seen one

[warm marlin]

spec is already dead to me

in the past

[shrewd lantern]

ig not an outlaw ring since no versa

[honest basin]

Sadly I'm an old man and my raid is not trustworthy, so if I need to step someone I mouseover their raid frame lmao

[shrewd lantern]

unless they can make it work

[warm marlin]

crit is okay

but would be hard to set up

[maiden oar]

mouseover focus macro

[spark ridge]

what do i do when my generator lands me at 5 combo points

[maiden oar]

focus step macro

[spark ridge]

send another one?

[vale pine]

yes

[hazy breach]

Hello

[shrewd lantern]

i just step tank

[honest basin]

Too many buttons, I have one shadow step macro that's just @mouseover/@target if no mouseover

[shrewd lantern]

dk is most reliable to not be moving

[maiden oar]

oh ok

[crisp pond]

may you explain why you vanish into bs?

[maiden oar]

i like just being able to step focus regardless of mouse positioning

[crisp pond]

(fractilus)

[vale pine]

he probably wanted to vanish-strike

[shrewd lantern]

probably took damage before could strike

[crisp pond]

ahh i see though i was missing some giga tech

[shrewd lantern]

how much damage do you even lose ignoring vanish

i feel its kind of minor

[honest basin]

That's crazy bro digging in logs to find out he got stealth broken

[vale pine]

0.8% or so if even

vanish is very minor

[chrome palm]

Holy twin

I’m 3/3 on dogshit unusable items from taz

[shrewd lantern]

what do you gain again doing it

i forgor

[hazy breach]

Because im dumb

And pressed backstab before it swapped over

[vale pine]

one shadowstrike cast

[crisp pond]

i see i see, thanks

[shrewd lantern]

i mean that gains you slightly more fw doesnt it

[crisp pond]

im deep diving in ur log hope u played perfectly

[warm marlin]

bro got it every week

what a gamer

[maiden oar]

can use premed to save sht sometimes too

[shrewd lantern]

or just the fact shadowstrike isnt a complete noodle

[honest basin]

That's fucked up LMAO

[maiden oar]

someone in here brought that up and its nice sometimes

[crisp pond]

i need jesus

eleem is that guy

[maiden oar]

or use it if you 2x proc unseen blade and need to refresh rupture soon

so you can get coup spent and gen enough cp to rupture also

[crisp pond]

u saw my log

i am doggy on sub

[shrewd lantern]

chat i did 3 araz pulls without tfd

and i hate it

[warm marlin]

this noob isnt even doing the highest simming disorient opener

[honest basin]

It's okay so am I

[warm marlin]

smh

[bitter cliff]

Heya, is the pvp trinket still a good option? I just returned to season 3

[chrome palm]

That ring, boots, and then shoulders after I crafted

[honest basin]

Only reason I have any respectable ranks is cuz of my rank 4 on ky'veza where I got 0 mechanics lmao

Didn't even 100 with 0 mechanics

Cringe

[shrewd lantern]

I like how they make cantrip boots

that make every other boot useless

[honest basin]

[random comet]

Just loot the boots easy

[warm marlin]

huge pulls

[left ledge]

idk if this has been brought up before or is noted for shadowcraft's bugs but there's another scenario ive encountered quite consistently, when i stack sht and then flag rupture -> dance sod it gives me a refund that's pretty delayed

[warm marlin]

im just happy we didn't int hm this week the cooked comp finally succeeds

[warm marlin]

ya happens very consistently to me in hardmode with stacked stuff

[left ledge]

its extremely fkin annoying

i think that might be the most annoying one yet

i cant stop myself

i always backstab

and i dont even WANT the rupture to reset the cp

just -7

esp when i have coup up as well

[warm marlin]

im wondering if im just an inter

[left ledge]

i just want to stab - sectec - coup - coup

[warm marlin]

and its pressing sod slightly early

[left ledge]

no no no

it is SO delayed

ive waited the whole gcd

[warm marlin]

but it does happen on ~50% of pulls in hardmode

and hardmode only

[left ledge]

it happened to me on soul hunters

and i tilted so hard i dropped -600k dps

it RUINED my set up

and i think it was an 18 stacker

holy fk i was so mad

[hollow spear]

Are you guys playing your dances around escalating blade stacks in pure st?

[left ledge]

i remember waiting and i thought i gamed the system

[left ledge]

you play around sectec

and symbols

the only time you want to think about escalating blades for holding is when cds are in 20

in that case you hold EVERYTHING

otherwise you just send

[hollow spear]

Idk, I feel like if you don't send dry sectecs, it might be worth it to game it

[left ledge]

(ofc with the exception of lets say adds come out in 5-10 sec)

wym game it

[hollow spear]

Are you sending dry sectecs?

[left ledge]

sometimes, sometimes no

depends on how lucky my coups are

[warm marlin]

its good if you can fit it

[brisk wind]

Is rogue hard to play?

[left ledge]

yes and no

if you can do a static perfect 16-20 gcds every 1:30, yes it is easy

[hollow spear]

I think I need to look into dry sectec more

[dense geode]

sub feels so much better than sin in keys wtf

[left ledge]

the rotation isnt hard

just cd managements and making sure you press things in the right order (by things its mostly sectec)

[honest basin]

I'd say it's easy to learn with a lot of room for knowledge to make you significantly better

[brisk wind]

I have been having a class crisis and cant find something to sit on

and play

[left ledge]

yeah, minmaxing is def not easy

[honest basin]

Niche scenarios come up and what you do in them can have a decent impact on your performance

[left ledge]

but doing well enough dps is pretty easy

[hollow spear]

And coup holding before flag feels kinda essential actually. Flag without coup feels wrong.

[left ledge]

especially in m+

i mean you can really fuck up on sub in m+

and still do a ton of dps

[honest basin]

Yup

[warm marlin]

i really like raw sectec as a guarantor for having coup ready for blades

[honest basin]

I intend the piss out of CDs on a big pack and it cost me probably 7m DPS or so, still top DPS by a country mile lmao

[left ledge]

double coup is coming in midnight for sure

and hopefully the double ub proc

this spec was COOKED before

[honest basin]

Yeah

[strange stump]

Hey guys do someone have the screenshot of gear we want tto farm? i saw someone posted someday but i lost it 🙁

[maiden oar]

probably full rework

theyve been hinting at it

in panels and interviews

[left ledge]

huh

really?

[maiden oar]

yea

[honest basin]

Hoping for full DS rework

[left ledge]

yeah maybe full DS rework

[random comet]

If any entire class needs it it’s rogue that’s for sure

[honest basin]

Ds is TURBO cooked LMAO

[left ledge]

leave trickster alone lmao

[warm marlin]

is it not just outlaw

because outlaw is def getting changed 100%

[left ledge]

REWORK OUTLAW INTO A TANK

[maiden oar]

it might be just outlaw

[left ledge]

DO IT

[lone linden]

no shot rogue gets a rework, dev is working on new DH spec

[maiden oar]

but i think they said classes and not specs

[lone linden]

💀

[maiden oar]

id have to rewatch though

[honest basin]

It sucks cuz like we just got a rework recently it's just kinda never been finished lol

[left ledge]

another sub rework

what could go wrong

is this the spriest treatment

reworked instead of finished

[maiden oar]

but i feel like them saying they cannot make changes on the scale they want to to certain specs between patches in the context of rogue changes this expansion is a hint

[honest basin]

[maiden oar]

and outlaw holding daggers

and name dropping outlaw

[left ledge]

outlaw holding daggers?

[maiden oar]

in one of their movies yea

2x dagger rogue casting rtb

[left ledge]

but i mean 1h has been a thing since classic

so thats a bit confusing to me

[honest basin]

That would be wild lmao

[maiden oar]

could be just promo footage

[left ledge]

its not like its a new concept

[honest basin]

Hopefully that's just a fuckup

[winter ice]

Delete rtb and buff the pistol shot keystone to 2000% and outlaw is fun

[maiden oar]

but it was a 2x knife guy rolling the bones

[left ledge]

they prob dont know outlaw uses 1 handers

[warm marlin]

outlaw NEEDS to be able to use double dagger

[honest basin]

I feel like outlaw players would be pissed if you made them use daggers

[warm marlin]

like desperately

[left ledge]

they assumed it holds daggers like sin and sub

[honest basin]

Really?

[left ledge]

and just filmed the rtb

thats gotta be what happened

like no fkin way lmao

[warm marlin]

it completely cooks the spec for any serious early prog because you need to get and spend gilded on a sword

[honest basin]

That's fair

[warm marlin]

and even then you're taking a mythic onehand from another dps who could use it

or inting your vault

[left ledge]

i mean wouldnt it be better for outlaw to use daggers in that sense

[winter ice]

? Is this not what every rogue currently does

[maiden oar]

granted i could be reading too much into this

[honest basin]

I'm down for double daggers I just feel like the sword/mace is like the iconic outlaw thing. Mechanically tho daggers would be way better

[left ledge]

outlaw really should just be a tank spec

[warm marlin]

no, you spend your gilded on a dagger and then offspeccing outlaw for any fight its good requires griefing your loot like that

[honest basin]

TRUE

[left ledge]

they can keep the cd uptime playstyle

just make them tank

fr

[warm marlin]

while assa/sub can swap

easily

[left ledge]

ive played outlaw tank on pservers before, shit is fun

[maiden oar]

but no changes to how sin and sub fundamentally work over tww coupled with them saying they want to make big changes like that when they release a new expac does seem like its hinting at a rework

[winter ice]

But if they’re dagger wielders it solves that issue no?

[crisp anvil]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[crisp anvil]

!mistake

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[warm marlin]

ya exactly why i want outlaw to wield daggers

i mightve played it on soul hunters this tier for example if i could swap easily

[left ledge]

i 100% wouldve

but no 1hander

[honest basin]

That's fair

[left ledge]

i think daggers is wrong thematically for them

but i mean it WOULD make swapping specs more fluid

HOWEVER THAT BEING SAID

[honest basin]

That's the dilemma tho

[left ledge]

i think making specs more fluid to swap between is actually BAD

[honest basin]

Mechanics vs theme

[left ledge]

i hate having things so homogenized in this game

at the end of the day even if im doing mythic raids or whatever other content there is in the game

its an rpg

[warm marlin]

can transmog to 1h i think

since its slot based now

not sure tho

[left ledge]

dagger slot cant mog 1h

[warm marlin]

ya but with the transmog changes

[honest basin]

Unless that's a change they make

[warm marlin]

someone was saying it might work

[left ledge]

really?

so then like

sub could mog 1h?

[warm marlin]

maybe im not confirming anything

[left ledge]

holy thats like shadowlands

[warm marlin]

but it was talked about in outlaw

[left ledge]

with all the transmog bugging

[honest basin]

There's a dagger with a sword skin

Ez

[crisp anvil]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm marlin]

you cannot make me use the gurubashi one again

[wraith girder]

How much crit % wise is to high for sub rn? Thinking of swapping from assa but i have a lot of crit

[hazy breach]

Just dont get haste and its fine

[wraith girder]

Lk

Ok

[crisp anvil]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[crisp anvil]

!atro

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <

[crude badge]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[crisp anvil]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[shrewd lantern]

people whn 1 polygon weapon

[crisp anvil]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[alpine wraith]

oh i have that dagger

it is big as f

dragonfang something

[crisp anvil]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[marble mauve]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[crisp anvil]

Number 1: You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
what this mean

if i have coup 10 second before flag i keep it to use after using flag / shadow blade ,,,,

[snow berry]

Is it worth running double on-use with forge + lily for keys?

[alpine wraith]

yes

[alpine wraith]

nope

[crude badge]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[plain creek]

is it normal that my sims want more vers than mast?

[vagrant fulcrum]

!crafted gear

anyone have the raidbots copypasta with s3 crafted gear?

[alpine wraith]

fuu has one on #tc-research

[honest basin]

You don't like the gurubashi poker?! 😂😂😂😂

[honest basin]

I'm talking bout the gurubashi poker

It's literally the glass looking sword skin idk what the actual sword is called

[lucid jackal]

The more you get of one stat the more you want of another

Crit mast vers are mostly the same

[crude badge]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[alpine wraith]

i meant this boi

had to make me log in smhj

[signal moth]

seeing sub climbing the leaderboard.. do i start to learn it now? lol

[haughty widget]

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[lucid jackal]

Its week 3 of the Tier man

Both are good

[signal moth]

yes.. but that doesnt fix my obsession to meta whore and roll over to a spec that does 0.5% more dps than the other.. I have to do it early so that I make sure I play it wrong and do -50% dps from swapping specs... isnt that the way of a fotm?

[alpine wraith]

just have 3 rogues one of each spec

you casual

[lucid jackal]

Both specs are good

Sub is going to be better without routing Imo

[signal moth]

does sub play mark?

[lucid jackal]

Nop

Trickster

[signal moth]

ok sub is better then

why you lie

[signal moth]

sub seems pretty fun when i see it being played

[shrewd lantern]

sub without shaman buff

[signal moth]

when i play it is feels like i dont have keybindings

[shrewd lantern]

💀

[alpine wraith]

sub is fine without shaman now

now war is the biggus dickus

[lucid jackal]

It was always fine without buff

[frigid ingot]

`wa

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[signal moth]

just wanna say devlin is a god @spice escarp ok ty

[lapis hatch]

Sub is much more reliant on routing, Assa just needs mobs brought to boss but besides that it always has damage

[balmy crest]

for soul hunters u play the standard st build? or should i get tt and untag first dance

[crystal atlas]

its 3+ targets we add BP into AOE?

[lucid jackal]

Sin literally does tank dps st without funnel

[lapis hatch]

Yeah

Pack routing matters more for sub tho

[alpine wraith]

you play with replicating

and 1 point in finality

instead of PE+improv sht

nothing else changes

[frigid ingot]

!plater

[urban walrus]

Hey guys, in M+ is this better to play with TEA ?

[signal moth]

compared to sin? Normally all classes care for routing a fair amount

[lucid jackal]

Sin will do good aoe damage on any route

It'll do literally 0 boss damage without constantly pulling for it

[signal moth]

and sub?

[lucid jackal]

Ideally yeah, every time you get sub CDs, you do a big pull

But you can send Cds on small pulls, you'll lose value, but you are still functional

[signal moth]

like pug route as sub, i just yeet cds in 'big' pulls and go with it?

[short radish]

Wooo 3 target pull when flag comes up

[lucid jackal]

cd on cd yeah

[short radish]

Don't hold for a big pull

Just send even if it feels bad

[fast solar]

is there a good use for 2 on use trinkets as sub? got araz and prism today and saw some people play both. When should i use which one? any suggestions?

[lucid jackal]

Forge then prism

then just alternate

Not rocket science rlly

[topaz saffron]

I feel like I'm missing something major in our aoe rotation. But alot fo the guides on wowhead and stuff are not the most digestible to read.

[signal moth]

how much lower will the overall be compared to sin?

[topaz saffron]

is there a place that explains the sub aoe rotation better then wowhead?

[steel jolt]

Shindig has a video on it if you're into that sort of thing

[topaz saffron]

From last season the nearly 2 hour one?

[steel jolt]

yeah i think so

[topaz saffron]

watched it, I dunno if I'm just sending cd's way to early, or not sending them enough but I'm having a really hard time keeping up on 12-13-14's keys

Boss damage i'm blasting

[fast solar]

ok and do i macro it to something specific or just press it?

[short radish]

Who knows, just send if you get a full use of your cds

[lucid jackal]

use 13 use 14 on blades

forge 13 prism 14

and then brind prism manually

because fights like forge you will want to manually use prism

[fast solar]

ok was a little bit confused because I dont know what is better... stack to max. and the sent or just sent if blades is ready and get a bit of the stats u know

[pine ingot]

Hey guys, im a noobie us a subtlety, how much ruptures I have to hold in aoe M+?

[native rivet]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[lucid jackal]

U just use an on use with every CD

thats it

your first prism will be 9 stacks

ur next will be 18

[thorn yacht]

what would i do if my trinkets are prism and lily

[opal basalt]

play a passive

[frail kindle]

Don’t play prism and lily

[thorn yacht]

it's what raidbots wants me to do

[opal basalt]

dont do it still

[frail kindle]

You must have horrible other options then lmao

[fast solar]

ok great. appreciate that. still have trouble with sub sometimes 😄

[frail kindle]

I would play a last season passive like eye of kezan if you have one and prism over lily and prism

[quick swan]

Sub is a tough spec

[thorn yacht]

i have myth lily, hero prism, hero sigil, hero edict, champ crystal and sacbrood, veteran forge

[quick swan]

[opal basalt]

idk i play 710 prism and 704 sigil rn

[frail kindle]

Prolly hero prism and hero aight

Sigil

Sigil is only good st tho

[quick swan]

Prism is insane

My 704 one sims higher than 723 lily lol

[opal basalt]

more prio damn

(raw sims)

prism is indeed insane

[short radish]

[opal basalt]

the next 3 are forge, stone idol, lily

[frail kindle]

Lily is so weak for no reason

[short radish]

we'll take your word for it

[opal basalt]

https://liquidarmory.com/trinket-tracker?wowClass=Rogue&wowSpec=Subtlety

as sauce

[plain creek]

i mean

it sims worse than house of cards

so

idk

[glossy turtle]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[glossy turtle]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[flat wyvern]

!fazed

[signal moth]

From my limited understanding sub is brought due to burst but yet on this pull (yeah 1 pull but w.e all CDs used) it barely pulls ahead of dh and then its dead last? am i missing to why they are brought

https://youtu.be/wf8jSw60F50?t=44

[willow pawn]

When we play forge/prism, we send forge 1st, prism 2nd, forge 3rd etc?

[snow girder]

is vanish important to think about in keys?

for damage?

[lucid jackal]

yep

[lucid jackal]

Its brougth cuz it deals good damage on short CDs

[steady lark]

this is likely more the havoc proccing souls out of his mind and getting infinite glaives and not sub being bad, but ultimately I think it's just friends playing what they like playing with each other

[snow girder]

90 sec classes dont usually have anywhere near the burst sub has

[signal moth]

its also a top ass key though

[lucid jackal]

Its played for the same reason the outlaw player pushing keys is playing a build thats like, 3% worse on paper

Ppl wanna play wahtever they want

its week 3 of the season

[steady lark]

sin in arakara has got to be the most cancer thing to play ever on sin as well

[signal moth]

i mean looks good here https://youtu.be/-MxNqsg6Tj0

[lucid jackal]

Nobody is making literal god comps to push keys right now, especially with turbo boost existing

[signal moth]

MM is zoooomy

[steady lark]

your bleeds going on targets with 10% of the others hp is tilting

don't think it's that deep

russian bro likes sub he plays sub

amen

[signal moth]

chinese dont do that though

[warm marlin]

the chinese who famously play vdh and mage every season despite it being good or not

(well mage is always good but)

[signal moth]

vdh has been good forever

at this point

[snow girder]

ehh

[signal moth]

and yeah chinese only play god comps/meta whore to the max

[snow girder]

oh tank

i read that as havoc for some reason

[lucid jackal]

uhm..

[snow girder]

NA does that

wat

[signal moth]

yes but chinese will do it now

for the ones who just m+ compared to NA/EU who are still raiding

[stuck linden]

Does flag count CPs put on other targets? Like if I flag one target and start rupturing other targets, will it still lash the original and give me mastery stacks?

[lucid jackal]

It will yes

[wary plover]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[warm depot]

when are u guys sending blades n stuff on dimensius

[raw wadi]

HC? Mythic?

[warm depot]

hc

[raw wadi]

P1/First Plattform/2x Last Phase

But depends on dmg in p1

[warm depot]

i have 2nd come up before p1 is done

i assume hold for first platform?

[raw wadi]

Yeah I would hold for first Plattform

For ethical pad dmg

[warm depot]

say less

ty

[stray oyster]

Do you really black power 4 or more in shadows dance?

[heady tangle]

why does wowhead say to shuriken storm between coup de grace?

[lucid jackal]

because its more damage

[manic salmon]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[lucid jackal]

This dimensius P1 is fucked bro

I cant remember a raid boss doing THIIISS much damage

[void needle]

Does this also apply if the original target dies? I'm talking first add set on dimensius, if I open flag/blades on the add will I lose its value when I use the rest of blades on boss? I've been cautious of this and just using flag on boss

[lucid jackal]

If the target with flag dies I think you get 5 stacks and it just ends the ramp

[void needle]

Dimensius p1 is kinda fucked lmao. So much raid damage and if anybody starts dying, you get devoured

We've been doing 6 heals for dimensius because of it

[fallen depot]

Anyone around to log review?

[lucid jackal]

I'm talkin about mythic

But yeah

Rough boss

[void needle]

P1 is the same, just even more damage right?

[manic salmon]

way more

3 adds on each side

[void needle]

Yeah, you could tell it was going to be a bitch given we were stuck on heroic dimensius for a while

[lucid jackal]

3 adds on pull on each side, then each add set needs to be killed at the same time or they respawn

soaks are harder cuz you are capped to 20 players

boss also does 50x the damage

[warm marlin]

dimensius p1 did look crazy

you can probably lust it unlike liquid tho?

with the extra 3% and ilvl

[frail kindle]

can you

[void needle]

Idk how tight p3 is though

[lucid jackal]

devour literally does 4m a tick

U hold dps in p1 anyway

[void needle]

You do get boss damage checked

[lucid jackal]

So u lust to prog and u save it for kill

[void needle]

Lmao, dk value on that fight is kind of insane

Not having some crazy raid dr for devour is tough

[rustic raven]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[alpine wraith]

there is a reason exile had 22% uptime on elusive feint

[stray oyster]

Is symbols of death always used before shadow dance

[alpine wraith]

dont use symbols before dance no

[stray oyster]

so only st

secret technique

[warm marlin]

do you mean literally same global or

[stray oyster]

in all the guides, none clearly say what you do with all your charges of ssod

i know before secret technique

[void needle]

symbols/dance>bs>dance/trinket/pot>sectech

[stray oyster]

correct on openenr

but what about outside of burst

just in normal rotation

[short radish]

With secret technique

[void needle]

symbols/dance>bs>sectech

[stray oyster]

and no where else?

[short radish]

Just take the opener and remove flag and blades

Nope

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[short radish]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

You dont press off cooldowb

[stray oyster]

that all makes since, i just wasnt sure what to do with sod between those burst windows

and the answer is use with st

[short radish]

Yup just hodl

Sometimes doing nothing as sub is thr right answer

[stray oyster]

gotcha, the last time i did sub was legion

its a bit differnt, but similar

[short radish]

Yeah if you look at any logs you'll see sub do basically 0 damage outside cooldowns

[warm marlin]

dance = always use symbols
symbols = always use sectec
sectec = rarely without other cds

[short radish]

So the actions you do there are largely inconsequential

Other than trying to do finishers to reduce cdr

[quaint orbit]

Dance as soon as first dance ends during blades. Symbols when secret tech is up or when you can secret tech with the second super charged finisher

[stray oyster]

this is not what was just said, you dont alway suse sod with dance

[short radish]

You always use dance with sod

Well

You dont dance without sod

[void needle]

Never dance without sod/sectech

[short radish]

But you can send a naked sod sectech once or twice

[stray oyster]

that is what i was loking for

[short radish]

But that's very rare

[stray oyster]

so between burst phase, i always dance sod to sec tech

[short radish]

And honestly not worth doing if you dont understand the cdr flow/limits

[void needle]

At the end of your opener, after both dances are used you'll have a sod sectech for example

[gilded jungle]

Can you send finisher at 5 or does it always need to be at 6 inside and outside of dance?

[strange chasm]

so with araz and prism its araz on pull then prism next so on and so on

[alpine wraith]

yea not much mystery as sub

do care sometimes you hold cds long enough for forge to come off cd when you have an 18 prism

so you need a diff bind for prism

to send that one

[strange chasm]

yeah ive got a diff bind for prism

thinking for nexus probs saving 18 stack prism bang during amp

[alpine wraith]

you could ask guy he progged it just last week/this week

although sending it on platform is also fine

[strange chasm]

looking at Nukkz logs

[pallid inlet]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[past skiff]

sub macros

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[little epoch]

whats the best / effective way to use interrupt when i am blowing my CD phase off?

mouseover?

[raw wadi]

In non-pug it should be mix of focus and mouseover. Once you get more used to the rotation it will be easier.

[short radish]

focus macro

and then kick focus

[raw wadi]

Real question is if kidney shot counts into danse macabre

[short radish]

it does

so does cheapshot

[raw wadi]

Pewpew

[maiden oar]

soul hunters is so evil

i try 3m flag its messy i try to hold it a bit then hunt happens

hehe

maybe i just giga hold

[raw wadi]

I sent it before but it's tight

The only one when i hold was for the eye beam

[main ridge]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[raw wadi]

@maiden oar yeah I casted it 3:06

But i didn't care about move to mark. I moved late.

[manic salmon]

i have a solution

you won't like it

[short radish]

if you say play sin

im reporting you

[manic salmon]

[short radish]

[maiden oar]

hehe

[manic salmon]

the only fight where its the actual solution

[maiden oar]

i think id have more trouble managing sin stuff

[manic salmon]

becayse you can just fuck off

[maiden oar]

i have an idea i think

[alpine wraith]

outlaw is twice as good as sin

XD

[manic salmon]

outlaw is banned

[warm marlin]

what sin is 100x more cringe to play no

managing ds mark sounds awful

[manic salmon]

Not rly

just hold it on vengeance girl (ilyssa)

she has 4b hp more than others

[mint maple]

Hey, I've seen people using vanish during opener. Why?

[manic salmon]

and swap before intermission

[raw wadi]

Refresh dots and MA

Improved garote

[mint maple]

as sub?

[raw wadi]

Oh

[warm marlin]

i flagged at 3:34 and 5:42 (no double on use) and it makes it much easier to get your full cds off

[woeful hare]

is it consistently possible to get 2 secret techniques off in the first shadow dance window? Or is it dependent on getting coup de grace during the window?

[warm marlin]

you miss a flag usage

but

wayyy easier to play than 3min 430 flag

[raw wadi]

Yes it depends on coup and lust

[short radish]

for flavor

also gives 7 free CP

[warm marlin]

if you do a prepull cheese, it is a gain to strike evis vanish strike flag rupture instead of the normal opener

it is small though

[lucid jackal]

It literally just lines up without any thinking

Forge on pull, 9 on 2nd set of cds, forge on platform, 18 on burn

[short radish]

wait what thats not in the gouda command

[thorn yacht]

ok but seriously... how do i use lily and prism

[manic salmon]

vanish to refresh the first dance ( )

[warm marlin]

hidden technology

[short radish]

that explains your loomi pull when i copied cds

[raw wadi]

In m+ sometimes it works

[short radish]

you farm a pacemaker or soleah

[warm marlin]

(its like 0.2% and only if you have predisorient)

[manic salmon]

ye in m+

[warm marlin]

[raw wadi]

Imagine First dance would be an instant if you get out of fight.

[maiden oar]

ok im going to attempt it

i was noticing that the 1m30 flag right ebfore intermission was giga gaming

and considering trying to replicate it

[short radish]

i assume it makes it easier to get your 2nd sectech in the first dance window

[frail night]

quick question, for raid cleave, when should we use shuriken storm besides between each coup?

[short radish]

wait so you held for 40 seconds?

[warm marlin]

you consume one of the extra predisorients, which guarantees coup

well

guarantees it earlier

[short radish]

[manic salmon]

oh my gah

[strange chasm]

Sweet. Damn this boss is fking nuts

[manic salmon]

id cumge

[lucid jackal]

Yeh

Play cheat tho

dont fall for the elus bait

[warm marlin]

yea its a little cooked but i did fine

[strange chasm]

ye ofc

[warm marlin]

you get more value by having a nice easy timing to triple cleave the bosses

[winter ice]

!log

[warm marlin]

eye beam is like the only moment in the fight to do that so you line up every dance/flag with it if possible

[maiden oar]

in general actually whats the rule of thumb for more uses vs better uses with sub

im used to a game where more uses is just alwyas correct every single time (ffxiv)

how often do you sac a flag for better flags

[manic salmon]

rule of thumb is: if youre gonna do more by holding then you hold

[short radish]

just dont hold for too long

like i did on dimensius

i think if you lose a cast

its not worth holding

thats the basic threshold

[warm marlin]

rare

more uses is very often correct

it could very well still be correct

i mostly did it on prog because i was afraid of inting myself trying to greed gcds during mechanics

[maiden oar]

i see

tyty

[little epoch]

like when i have premade team and i get assigned certain mark i just do => choose mark, focus it, and bind kick into that whole macro right?

[dire hare]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

yeah

tbh i'd have 2 separate binds

one for normal kick

and one for focus kick

but you can also just use a mouseoverkick

and mouseover your focus frame

lots of different ways to skin the cat

up to you how to do it

[noble stirrup]

I just got a netherprism, whats the cd usage timing? Every cd set or wait for 18 stacks? or does the guide explain?

[hazy breach]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[fallen depot]

can anyone do a log review? trying to improve and hit a point where i don't really know how

[short radish]

do a !guide and hope someone looks at it

sorry

do a !log

[sleek tide]

Are you supposed to use secret technique with DS and Shadow dance always or is it okay to send it with jsut shadow dance if symbols is on cd

[fallen depot]

ive done 2 D:

[short radish]

unluggy

also dont do 2

[sleek tide]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[thin rose]

Hi! Is there Cold Blood bugged? When i set it on macro, it says "spell not learned"

[hazy breach]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[fallen depot]

so just leave it and hope its looked at ?

[winter ice]

No dagger or antenna from loom 🙁

[manic salmon]

☹️

[turbid depot]

Guys cold bloded + sectech macro isnt working in raid?

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message

[turbid depot]

THANK YOU SO MUCH

[fallen kite]

!gear

[winged kernel]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[short radish]

yeah

[lilac plume]

How is Prism used?, every 1:30?, send with with Flag or with X time remaining on Flag?, only worth using as a second on use?.

[hazy breach]

No prism is the best trinket by far this season for sub

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[short radish]

thoughts on heroic forge vs mythic pacemaker on amp bosses (salad/dimensius)

since thats not simmable

[hallow pagoda]

i am pretty new to the spec "rogue in general"can anyone give me some insight on some questions i have

[ember hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

go here

read one of the guides

then read it again

then ask questions if you get stuck

[shrewd lantern]

man i like araz

im either first

[hallow pagoda]

i have been reading them constantly lol

[shrewd lantern]

or 13th if add knockers troll

[short radish]

[short radish]

then ask away

[hallow pagoda]

it says that mastery >= vers does that mean that i want more and more mastery or i should have a pretty even split of the both stats?

[short radish]

you want whatever topgear says to wear

[crisp lion]

Can anyone explain how kush has his flag off CD at 1:20 here? https://youtu.be/FKMjc378X3k?t=81

[short radish]

mastery/vers and even crit are kinda all equal at different levels

[short radish]

autumn maybe

[hallow pagoda]

so if my crit is dog im not gonna hit proper numbers either... mannn no wonder im not putting up numbers like i want to

[shrewd lantern]

i mean get agility

as long as you dont have giga haste you should have stats

[lucid jackal]

Blessing of autumn

You dont need it on the fight at all

[lucid jackal]

Everything lines up without it

[long sun]

yo can i force my sim to press evis in aoe

if so how

[crisp lion]

im struggling with the 1:30s trying to do dmg while soaking / ghosts

[short radish]

no your crit rating has nothing to do with it unless you have 30000 haste

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[lucid jackal]

Just gotta get good

[crisp lion]

o7 will do

[lucid jackal]

if I can do it, you can too

[tacit coral]

is it a bad move to send shuriken storm outside shadowblades even if you know shadow techniques will get me to max cp?

for coup

[lucid jackal]

Yes

Bad move

[tacit coral]

how come?

[hallow pagoda]

so sometimes not pressing a button is better than pressing a button thats crazy

[lucid jackal]

Because you waste a lot of sht procs

[short radish]

yup sometimes less is more

sub is kinda unique in that (i think)

[lucid jackal]

You are trading a lot of SHT procs for an EB Proc

[short radish]

where we dont always send off cd

[lucid jackal]

The SHT procs are more valuable than an EB proc

that's it rlly

[hallow pagoda]

i do end up having windows where i am trying to just empty the tank completely and i just need to relax then..

[short radish]

can i also just say i hate that the abbreviation is SHT because i always read it as SHIT

yeah im probably dyslexic

[shrewd lantern]

3 pulls into weaponmaster im reminded why i hate this talent

[tacit coral]

also is araz ritual forge+netherprism bis and if so in what situations because it seems to sim pretty low for me

[short radish]

yeah i dont care if its not as good after 6 or 7 minutes

im probably still running it

[sinful marten]

how do i sim enchants i selected all weapon enchants and it doesnt show me anything

[tacit coral]

u need to cross in "replace gems/enchants"

[sinful marten]

oh ty

[winter ice]

Can u drop ur logs/chat name so I can compare casts

[short radish]

!simc

did we have a command for how to run simc

i swear we did