#subtlety

1 messages · Page 495 of 1

vale pine
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but e.g. for m+ dusk/dawnthread can sim higher (even tho they have a certain risk)

vagrant thorn
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is that because sub is annoying to play? :p

vale pine
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i would not stress out too much

leaden prairie
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im too scared to do that

tribal blade
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the uptime for dawnthread is quite good

vale pine
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because these embellishments have very low impact on your overall output

tepid trellis
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i do it when it lines up like this, where it isnt LAST global

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of dance

vale pine
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because they scale poorly with item level

vale pine
tepid trellis
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like this one was very very good rng

leaden prairie
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ye idk

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i never do it

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im a pussy

tepid trellis
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just get such good rng

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that you can get 3 sectechs in 2 dances

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become the nuke

tribal blade
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gotcha buff 2pc to 100% proc rate

leaden prairie
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i guess i should tho

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would help me get the cb sec tech in between 2 cds better

tribal blade
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would be awesome if they made sectec only castable in dance

leaden prairie
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its awkard with tfd

tribal blade
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so we didn't have to do this kind of bs

keen dome
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Yeah

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It'd eb cool

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Could do it with the Apex

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If cast in dance do X

leaden prairie
tribal blade
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fits the theme well 😉

dusk stone
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Yeah

keen dome
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I have revised my thoughts on what our Apex will be

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I am now 99% sure it will be both Dance and SecTec

dusk stone
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On my 7.5 h saladman i got 3 sectecs in dances was something

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Sad we wiped

clever delta
bleak night
vale pine
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both play diffrently

bleak night
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i agree

dusk stone
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So whats the deal with sectec

vale pine
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assassiantion is very chill, low risk high reward gameplay

spark ridge
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i dont have tier set yet

dusk stone
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Its up a lot in dances

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But i only use it when i can symbols it?

tribal blade
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pair sectec with dance and symbols always

tepid trellis
vale pine
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subtlety has most of its damage in cooldowns so downtime feels less impactful but cooldowns are high value

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also it has a very nice dynamic and flexibility due to multiple charges and cdr

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prisms adds even more depth to it

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because you can now decide even more specific when to burst

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e.g. in m+, lining up 18 stacks with a big pull is insanely powerful

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or in raid with a damage amp phase

shadow lance
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Damn you even got time to put a SS in the first dance?

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I generally put my SecTech in the last dance gcd

dusk stone
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do you get tfd on intermission of dimensius

tepid trellis
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no

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you dont drop combat

tribal blade
vale pine
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you don't drop combat during boss fights

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sadly

tribal blade
dusk stone
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yeah

vale pine
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nicuu

tribal blade
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i nuked that mob out of orbit

dusk stone
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the 1st church pull after 1st boss with 18 stacks

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in priory

haughty mural
tribal blade
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or make it so sectec snapshots

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so if it was cast in dance if the clones hit outside of dance they deal the same dmg

haughty mural
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Also a possibility yea

bleak night
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yeah the delay is weird

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also just make it one hit so i can see big number

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thanks

tribal blade
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it's supposed to be a non game breaking version of DfA

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which just became a buggy gamebreaking mess

haughty mural
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Also two different timings for the delay

final pawn
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has anyone a small weakaura for tracking shadow techniques that he can share?

lime edge
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Do ysll recon the rogue specs will get a rework in midnight?

keen dome
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No

bleak night
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i'd be amazed if outlaw doesnt

shadow lance
bleak night
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considering its literally the poster child they're using whenever they bring up specs that need weak auras to be played

shadow lance
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Oh no, I 'm speaking about first pull after 2nd boss

bleak night
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its very clearly on the block for changes

keen dome
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Yeah, true Bel.

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Also I am STILL curious about their demo character in a load of the media content and shorts clips being an outlaw rogue using double daggers

tribal blade
lime edge
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I been expectating outlaw to get a major and sub a very minor one

keen dome
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Possibly, yeah.

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Sub could just use a few tweaks.

fathom adder
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the only time we use sectec outside of dance is with symbols and enoug cdr to have it back when dance hits two charges, thats mostly when i only use 1 dance between finishers (?) find it hard to pinpoint that situation and everyone says different things

shut prism
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why we do one evicerate before we use blackpowder spender in aoe?

limpid sage
final pawn
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BP from 4+ target count right?

river thunder
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!guides

wicked joltBOT
river thunder
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!coup

shut prism
wicked joltBOT
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Coup de Grace Optimizations:

  • **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
  • Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
  • Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
tribal blade
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before going into cds

cloud rover
shadow lance
tribal blade
acoustic matrix
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Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
This one bugs me. If I use shadowstrike I don't get a UB stack. If I use Shuriken Storm I don't get a UB stack

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Am I missing something ?

limpid sage
dusk stone
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wait

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we are pressing evis in keys

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on gathers

cloud rover
tribal blade
dusk stone
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how much dps increase

shadow lance
bleak night
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all of it

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all the dps you could ever want

tribal blade
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it just makes the start of your cd rotation better

bleak night
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and more

spark ridge
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what delve belt bonus is recommended?

bleak night
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just by pressing an evis

tribal blade
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it's not massive

shadow lance
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If you press storm, you won't proc UB but won't waste a proc

dusk stone
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snd would provide sht and energy right

tribal blade
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i do either or

dusk stone
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because auto attacks giga fast

shadow lance
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Sometimes, I just SnD

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when I finish a pack at 5 cp

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And can restealth

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And go downtime

lime obsidian
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Do we play CB in m+? See some are using it

tribal blade
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those CPs go to waste if you don't do that

bleak night
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i refuse to press snd again in my life

tribal blade
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since you guaranteed generate full CPs at the start of a pull

bleak night
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i'll waste infinite cps

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before i press that button again

tribal blade
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you can farm a wee bit of cdr

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but again it's a small min max

dusk stone
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how much though

high crow
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Do you storm with the rotten to guarantee applying find weakness? Or is shadow strike still better

dusk stone
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is this like .05% dps increase or 3%

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according to stealthi it isnt worth storming in dance ever over a shadow strike

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i havent tested it myself

tribal blade
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i have no idea how much dps you gain from casting evis on a gather for snd or casting snd between pulls, it's prob very small over the course of an entire key

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it's just small things you can do to optimize

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very small things

dusk stone
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well theoretically its really good for sht stacks

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if im not insane

tribal blade
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it is yeah

dusk stone
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sht has something to do with auto attacks right?

tribal blade
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yes

pseudo sail
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do you stil always press symbols of death to supercharge 2 combopoints out of combat before a boss pull in raid or in keys given there is enough time to get the cd back? or has that been fixed and doesnt work anymore?

tribal blade
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works for both

dapper gyro
novel marlin
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Would first pull in Gambit be a Storm > SS situation? Prio damage aside.

spark ridge
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based on sim? theres no general one?

tawdry wharf
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!wa

wicked joltBOT
dapper gyro
spark ridge
vagrant thorn
spark ridge
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are there long periods of time before cd window where im playing at 10 apm pressing backstab and evis?

fathom adder
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do you still storm once inside dance to spread fw when fighting 4+/planning to bp or not? read different things over the last few days here

glossy turtle
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we only bp on packs if we dont have a prio target, right?

cursive vapor
vagrant thorn
wicked joltBOT
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Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

spark ridge
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i dont mind waiting just wasnt sure if i was missing something

spiral sierra
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wait so i don't spam buttons even without energy?

fathom adder
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either you rupture if mobs live long or you just storm -> bp when 3+ targets

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outside of dance

feral knot
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is it ok to craft boots? I dont really play raid

tepid trellis
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id prolly not

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its gonna be so easily pugable on hc

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and the boots are kinda cracked

lime edge
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!wa

wicked joltBOT
dusk stone
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the differences between those things is debateable

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most of these things are very high leve optimizations that unless you're concerned with increasingly small amount of dps increased dont really matter

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TR builds are more intuitive, build better habits and are easier to understand

zealous flint
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yo guys, ive been watching vids and reading wowhead, but just a tad confused... Do we always use symobls and shadow dance together, adn try get 2 of them in each burst window?

tribal blade
dusk stone
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yes no and none of the above

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sub has a lot of nuances

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try and save 2 symbols/dances for flag windows and layer nuances on after youre good with the basics

zealous flint
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as in, do i still pair them

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or do i just use SD to get Sec tech combos off

dusk stone
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it depends

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but

hazy breach
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You pair them yes

leaden prairie
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@tepid trellis

hasty oasis
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!coup

wicked joltBOT
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Coup de Grace Optimizations:

  • **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
  • Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
  • Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
dusk stone
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go to dummy in dornalgal, do the opener and use symbols/dance until the 30s mark

lusty narwhal
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!coup

wicked joltBOT
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Coup de Grace Optimizations:

  • **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
  • Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
  • Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
tepid trellis
leaden prairie
dusk stone
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you will see that at that point if you no longer spend you have 1.5 dances for flag

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and that the 1.5 dances becomes 2 dances because of cdr

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its different in keys cause more cdr

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also tea build changes cdr

lusty narwhal
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!wa

wicked joltBOT
zealous flint
dusk stone
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sub is more bugged

zealous flint
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oh really haha

dusk stone
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!bugs

wicked joltBOT
zealous flint
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I went from 90's parsing on sin, to randomly doing 2mil dps after the "fix" that bugged everything

dusk stone
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it shouldve been like 10%

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what it was was there was a positve bug giving 10% more than it should

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and now its reversed

zealous flint
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but also, my CD's get randomly miss-aligned

dusk stone
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sin is fine

zealous flint
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which costs big dps in certain raids

dusk stone
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spec is brain dead and is the most free spec i have tried

leaden prairie
dusk stone
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i know nothing of it and was still getting 6mil overalls

leaden prairie
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the bugs dont even impact raid

zealous flint
tepid trellis
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only thing is FB assa doing slightly more than its intended to

zealous flint
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which is generally teh case 😄

dusk stone
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sub is good and fun though

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also meta ig

leaden prairie
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i guess peeposmile

dusk stone
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look man, i am still in denial

zealous flint
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thanks for the help guys, i just gotta git gud i guess 😄

dusk stone
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if you have more questions feel free to ask

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go do the dummy thing

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opener -> do 1-2 dances -> do opener -> do enough times until muscle memory and go do w/e content

zealous flint
zealous flint
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just cant mess up the burst phase

torpid snow
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Cold Blood sims better than Tea, is it worth swapping or just sim bait?

tepid trellis
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both good, play what you prefer of the two

hazy breach
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In aoe that is, in ST its cold blood all the way

tepid trellis
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yeh just assumed he meant for keys

vale pine
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both are close enough to be good otions

glossy turtle
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is it a big dps loss if you shadowstrike instead of backstab in the opener?

vale pine
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no

slender totem
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is assa still better dops than sub in m+`?

vale pine
foggy sphinx
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On how many targest do you spam black powder vs evis?

vale pine
foggy sphinx
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trying to learn this spec just played assa

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ait ty

vale pine
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BUT important

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you still use evis for coup

glossy turtle
vagrant thorn
foggy sphinx
hazy breach
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4+ bp

vale pine
hazy breach
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No other rules

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Literally

vale pine
glossy turtle
foggy sphinx
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and shuriken over backstab?

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2 targets? xd

vale pine
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2+

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ye

foggy sphinx
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figured

glossy turtle
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well you would wanna evisc if you have a prio target, like a miniboss

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right?

exotic meadow
vagrant thorn
glossy turtle
keen dome
exotic meadow
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actually yea , saw it on some streamer - should i stop using it?

keen dome
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You'll have more control if they aren't macro'd together.

slender totem
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also isnt 5m st dps pretty fking good haha?

lusty narwhal
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i simmed the difference between weaponmaster and the first dance on a 6 minute fight for my character and landed on both being ~0.1% or ~6k dps in range of eachother - am i justified to pick neither and go with exhilarating execution on progress?

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or am i missing something

exotic meadow
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its like i want to get the way to orange logs so.. ^^

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always try to improve

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but now im on the point im cluesless how to improve

lusty narwhal
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!sod

wicked joltBOT
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Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

ripe herald
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why is my damage so bad with sub rogue compared to sin? Is it because i have ara kara trinket?

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i have like 15% haste

half dragon
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is double on-use still better for amp bosses if you have a hc prism and a hero eco trinket compared to hc prism and myth antenna? i assume its not? sims 90k less but that might be close enough?

spice lichen
vale pine
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it is easier to perform well on assassination

spice lichen
spice lichen
half dragon
feral knot
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whats the command for gear from dungeons

dusk stone
exotic meadow
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whats wrong about it ?

dusk stone
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it looked like you sent it exactly with flag ill go double check

vale pine
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blades after backstab

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because of premeditation

dusk stone
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well how youre suppose to do it is as the gcd for stab finishes

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hit blades

vale pine
dusk stone
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using stuff mid gcd is a bad idea

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a rounding error becomes 1 less global in dance

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or in this case blades

vale pine
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i mean blades in the sequence is before backstab

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its not about off gcd use

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just about wasting ressources

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but i would also not say its a big mistake

dusk stone
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infographic shows right before sectec after stab

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i assumed that means tying it to the global of sectec as close as possible

vale pine
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you use it beofre secret yes, and if you use it after before the hits of secret

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this one is more interessting

image.png
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because the optimization is only done during shadow blades

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means you would strike here

exotic meadow
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aaaaaah ok , yea thats a point!

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thanks!

vale pine
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tho a more general cooldown management point is the major cooldown use

image.png
slender totem
exotic meadow
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so try to look more on global cd you mean?

quasi portal
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If i get coup , use it and then i get full cps, do i still shuriken in between for stacks

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Or what

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Or that situation is cos i fucked up?

stiff pollen
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!cbbug

wicked joltBOT
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Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

violet palm
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Is it good to open like Shadowstrike>Flag>Evis(for snd)>Vanish>Shadowstrike>Rapture then proceed as usual?

dusk stone
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you evis while spreading rupture afaik

violet palm
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For raid encounter

dusk stone
dusk stone
neon crag
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!wa

wicked joltBOT
neon crag
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!macro

wicked joltBOT
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Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

vale pine
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it will become obviouse if i post the next picture

image.png
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or maybe it isn't but you understand what i mean if you look at the time

slender totem
exotic meadow
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like i want to go orange logs thats the thing @dusk stone

vale pine
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your first flagellation cast is at the start of the fight

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so at ~0 sec

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the second one is ~3 minutes in the fight

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this means you did not use your major cooldowns for one entire cooldown duration (lost one cast entirely)

crystal bone
slender totem
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i sometimes see people ss randomly in st aswell why is that? even without coup proc

signal vortex
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Anyone knows if there is any new guide for sub (in video) that is accurate? assa main ...

slender totem
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https://youtu.be/05RHEP8iaT0?si=x9F2eyra5p10FoPl&t=167 look at when he first hits the collector he does SS and gets full cp huuh

YouTube
Shindigg
Forgeweaver Araz Mythic - Subtlety Rogue

Our progression kill of the fourth boss in 11.2 raid Manaforge Omega played as Trickster Subtlety.

Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/shindigwow
Discord: https://discord.gg/nvwu8DzTr3

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hcj6Zg7QbdqpCMNX?fight=8

World of Warcraft | The War Within | Ghosts of K'aresh

▶ Play video
crisp pond
slender totem
crisp pond
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+crit ig

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or kidding ss gives 3

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4+3=7

slender totem
crisp pond
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2nd part of the tooltip

slender totem
crisp pond
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no worries gl!

slender totem
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i need a wa to track that asap

crisp pond
slender totem
hazy breach
#

!wa

wicked joltBOT
crisp pond
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dmd you think its right

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eleem i have a question that i though of

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is it worth to chill before cds with techniques stacks so u can squeeze a 3rd tech in ur flag buff?

hazy breach
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Yes chilling before cds to build sht is good

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~10s or so you can just stop finishing

crisp pond
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i see i see, big tytyty

violet palm
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Stop finishing but still backstabbing or?

crystal bone
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a 3rd sectec in flag is tough to get

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but good if u can pull it off

lethal gale
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Is there a way to sim at how many stacks prism beats out lily? Or general idea is it always at least 9?

hazy breach
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Its not specifically for the 3rd sectech, its just more sht in general

crystal bone
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yea true

upbeat escarp
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!coup

wicked joltBOT
#

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

  • **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
  • Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
  • Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
hazy breach
lethal gale
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If I have prism and lily available for 1 more use is it better to send lily or prism? At what stacks is prism better if I’m using double on use

hazy breach
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Prism

lethal gale
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At what stacks tho

hazy breach
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Like 4

lethal gale
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Got it thanks

hazy breach
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Most of lilys power is in the passive agi

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Which is why its not fantastic

crystal bone
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55k agi for 20 sec with flag

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or 6k agi all the time

lusty narwhal
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weaponmaster sims ~6k more than the first dance for me, is it bad to use it?

crystal bone
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well thats 18 stacks but yea xD

lusty narwhal
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on 6minutes fight

lethal gale
slender totem
#

any1 makinga sub rogue in depth vid guide anytime soon? 😄

crisp pond
cedar iron
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There is one already

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Yes

slender totem
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oh shiet

crisp pond
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and small update one but kinda same, can link the other one too

slender totem
crisp pond
slender totem
crisp pond
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no worries gl on sub! remember its rough in the start and manageing everything

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gets easier by time

clever delta
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Any fractilus killers in chat? Im double stacking all circles, feint is enough right

crisp pond
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with elusiveness

terse dirge
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Is prism + passive still recommended for m+? I see people saying lily + prism for mpls but I wasant sure since you would have to use lily with 90sec cds and then use prism with dance in between then you wouldn’t really be able to stack it.

clever delta
#

I dont feel like playing eluv

crisp pond
clever delta
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But i probably play sub for that 20k vers

crisp pond
terse dirge
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Ye but don’t you just get less value you since you get less uses overall rather then just use a good passive trinket?

crisp pond
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i mean sim ur guy but i use prism+pacemaker and find it more chill

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lily kinda shi

terse dirge
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Yeah same prism+pacemaker sims like significantly more on dung slice for me but someone was saying double on use was simming higher ig they just have bad passive options idk

crisp pond
dreamy olive
#

!mistakes

wicked joltBOT
#

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

  • Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
  • Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
  • Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
  • If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
urban heron
#

Why do most people play the 'smoke' hero talent instead of 'mirrors'? 'Mirrors' seems like it would be much better

crisp pond
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kinda perma dr vs feint dr

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like on reclears or easier keys u dont need to feint as much = useless talent

urban heron
#

wonder how much dam you take from fazed targets vs environment

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interesting

boreal cargo
#

hey, do you guys know why is it not recommended to macro dance/sod/backstab?

cursive vapor
#

@hazy breach if playing opener and bursts right are 85% of sub what would be the last 15%?

cunning notch
#

!burst

wicked joltBOT
#

During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.

boreal cargo
#

thanks

hazy breach
#

Nah but more like timing your cds well and doing the minmaxes

crisp pond
#

is there a info command about nimble flurry?

tribal blade
hazy breach
#

What about nimble flurry

crisp pond
#

lookin at a random log and shins during first adds does 830k

#

my does 630k

#

(dps)

#

is it just shadowblades rng or smth

#

cause his did 20m more than mine

hazy breach
#

Unseen blades, coups etc

crisp pond
#

same cast but he got one more evis

#

i got more unseens

hazy breach
#

Theres no secret trick to getting more nimble flurry damage

#

Just stand next to them and do your rotation

crisp pond
#

i just got gapped ggwp

swift tinsel
#

Streamer diff

crisp pond
#

real real

swift tinsel
#

I might start streaming just for the increased vault luck

crisp pond
#

i streamed fractilus and arraz and got gray logs

#

meanwhile all others are purp

#

stream debuff

swift tinsel
#

Okay maybs not

crisp pond
#

viewer diff

short aurora
#

Is ss legal in m+ when you have 0 cp but Coup up to have it as your first global?

swift tinsel
#

Also I got a grim reminder of how much a timid tank affects overall dam in keys

deep girder
#

Just trying to learn sub in m+ is there any rule of thumb when we fullsend cds?

#

probably on cooldown outside of obvious holds right?

swift tinsel
#

Couldn’t break 6mil overall

hazy breach
swift tinsel
#

But absolutely torched every boss

crisp pond
swift tinsel
#

We did priory first area as four or five pulls

crisp pond
#

or when u pull big momma and he dont use any abilities so when i ss i insta die and lose 18 prism stacks on pull

swift tinsel
short aurora
swift tinsel
#

In her defense she missed all last week and was feeling really squishy (and is also a prot paladin)

short aurora
#

Or is that nono

swift tinsel
#

Also getting the most troll emissary spawns known to man

keen monolith
#

!wa

wicked joltBOT
keen monolith
#

Anyone have a good weak aura to remind you to use symbols before pulls to get the two supercharger combo points? Like one that prompts you to cast it as soon as you enter a key, res after a wipe, etc?

crisp pond
#

just a thing you have to get used too i think

keen monolith
#

I'm p sure weak auras are supposed to solve my every problem, that can't be right

slate marlin
#

Recently ive been using flag into a couplle ss+rupture into sb sequence, is that it or is it better to go inmediately ham

vale pine
#

you can just create one yourself:

  • Text aura.
  • trigger: ressources - combo points
  • load: only out of combat
  • write "use symbols, you noob!"
  • condition: super charge points <2
tribal blade
lilac stag
keen monolith
tribal blade
#

means your next cd set say if it's on a boss, you cannot immediately send flag on cd

lilac stag
#

Rupture if CDs aren’t ready. Full go if they are and rupture after if stuff will live.

tribal blade
#

you have to wait

slate marlin
lilac stag
#

so stop it. Haha

slate marlin
#

Thats why i asked if it was worth ye

lilac stag
#

Higher keys rupture holds a bit more value. Even in 12s idk I cant be arsed to spread it.

tribal blade
#

high end sub key pushers do it so it's not a bad thing to do i guess

#

but i personally am not a fan

lilac stag
#

We are team CN build.

#

🤝

#

Hit ‘em with the FW BP

void ocean
#

cn? 😄

tribal blade
#

china

void ocean
#

oh

lilac stag
#

Vigor, Rotten + BP

#

BP go brrrrr

void ocean
#

shit i dont know what im using in m+

#

i dont think i have rotten

#

but theres vigor fo shizzle

tribal blade
#

doesn't really matter what setup you run in weekly 10-12s

#

so long as it has mostly correct build talents

tepid trellis
#

NOOOO

#

YOU NEED TO BE OPTIMAL

tribal blade
#

I SORRY

tepid trellis
#

ONLY META COMPS ALLOWED

lilac stag
#

Optimize DN

vale pine
tribal blade
#

you must run the exact right build or else it's -50% dps

tepid trellis
void ocean
tribal blade
#

talent PV and you ahve to sell your 1st born child

void ocean
#

cause ud be right

tribal blade
tepid trellis
#

what ya pushin bud

lilac stag
tribal blade
#

i'm finally not completely inting the sub rotation in keys anymore

#

dmg is pretty monstrous

#

muscle memory is back and firing

lilac stag
#

Took assa “bugs” to bring you home.

tribal blade
#

haha took sub to feel amazing to play 😉

#

new 4pc is so good

void ocean
#

sub is pog, i think i topped almost every overall i did this season

lunar warren
#

Hey guys, how much % of versatility need sub to work good? Im new

lilac stag
#

Prism does it more for me than 4pc

crisp pond
lilac stag
void ocean
shadow lance
tepid trellis
#

between 0% and 100%

tribal blade
#

the direct consequence of prism has made me actually start to stop dying in keys

tepid trellis
#

somewhere between those two is fine

shadow lance
swift tinsel
tribal blade
#

i've actually started playing every single key very cleanly now

#

because i know if i fuck up and die it's major depression

keen dome
#

same

lilac stag
#

I did all DB & Priory for weekly. OMEGAKEKW

#

I need to work on IO a bit

void ocean
#

i only panic on the last boss of eco dome, gotta pick up the shit

keen dome
#

I'm torn on what my favourite weekly is.

lilac stag
swift tinsel
#

I fuck with dome minus the dashing mobs

keen dome
#

Yeah, I think DB is a good pick. I really like Eco / Streets / Gambit though

swift tinsel
#

priory can suck a fat one

lilac stag
#

just need a somewhat attentive healer

void ocean
#

but sub does so much dps in eco dome that i can afford to die on like 50% of the last boss xD

lilac stag
#

and a tank pressing a defensive every minute

swift tinsel
#

had a melee stack in there last night and the paladin pulls are just garf

void ocean
#

first boss is like fckin designed for sub

keen dome
#

A tank pressing a defensive is a high ask in pugs

#

I had my first abandon las tnight. +10 FG. We do the big pull. Healer dies like, six times. Tank dies almost as many. DPS just sorta stnading around going "...what"

swift tinsel
#

man FG has been rough this season

keen dome
#

people want to do the big first pull they've seen on the youtubes but they're not good enough

lilac stag
#

Had a 12 abandon. Fucking healer at 658 ilvl I didn’t catch. Couldn’t keep himself alive.

keen dome
#

Damn

swift tinsel
#

yeah watching folks get shredded by the loader bots or shreddifiers has been real

void ocean
#

i had flood 12 abandoned, was having 8-9M overall including first boss but ppl just dropped like flies

vale pine
#

who would take offensive itemization but pull like he would gear/talent defensively

swift tinsel
#

I think FG has been my only abandon so far, and two of them at that

vale pine
#

and get completely destroyed every time

lilac stag
#

Uncoordinated CC is just rough on the big pulls

keen dome
#

Yeah

swift tinsel
#

yeah that's why I usually mark my focus and put in party chat that I'll take their kicks

#

to cover that much at least

keen dome
#

I really should do that too but chaos reigns

swift tinsel
#

or watch omnicd and see when I can blind without (hopefully) overlapping

keen dome
#

I need to gind out a pacemaker or something 'cos it's the only upgrade left at hero iLevel. Antenna refuses to drop

#

The whole hero / normal gear being identical is a bit boring when you swiftly hit the ceiling

swift tinsel
#

managed to snag an Edict last night, truly spoiled

keen dome
#

Nice

limber relic
#

Antenna and Prism arent real

swift tinsel
#

pretty sure its still under my soleah

#

bc I don't get orbs

keen dome
#

I have had five Sol'eah's drop

robust dust
#

When do i use suriken Storm in shadowblade window to spread FW in big pull 8+

swift tinsel
#

same, its the only hero track passive I've been getting besides that Edict

swift tinsel
#

and only once

keen dome
#

I should go pug 2/8M to fish for it in vault this week

swift tinsel
#

I'm thinking of that for this weekend

robust dust
swift tinsel
#

yeah you want to strike only in dance/blades besides between coups

#

unseen blade damage is very high

#

same with coup

keen dome
#

First boss drops helm too which is myth cata fodder. Hands from Soulbinder. So that's 2 tier slots you can farm pretty easily from 2/8M

swift tinsel
#

keeps the motor runnin

#

those are good points

keen dome
#

I guess all 3 items from Plexus aren't bad to just get.

swift tinsel
#

I'm gonna see if I can convince our RL to start mythic first two while we work on hc Dimmy

keen dome
#

It's a very efficient tier for 2/8M

swift tinsel
#

plus you can get antenna in vault if you 2/8m with soulbinder can't you

keen dome
#

For rogues, anyway. Helm, belt, maybe ring, tier gloves. And you unlock BiS trinket, dagger, shoulders in vault from doing Soulbinder as the second.

#

Yep!

#

So it's some hefty value to have on farm weekly

#

(If you aren't mythic raiding)

oblique isle
#

guys how can I sim my char for races?

swift tinsel
#

yeah I'm def gonna try and get that started

raw wigeon
#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

keen dome
#

3% this week is gonna make it chill, I think.

ornate current
#

!cbug

wicked joltBOT
#

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

ornate current
#

!coup

wicked joltBOT
#

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

  • **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
  • Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
  • Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
lilac stag
ornate current
#

!mistakes

wicked joltBOT
#

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

  • Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
  • Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
  • Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
  • If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
high grotto
#

do u ever use bp outside of shadow dance?

ornate current
#

If you cant cleave than yes

hazy breach
#

Bp at 4 or more targets

slow gorge
#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

high grotto
cursive vapor
hazy breach
#

Theres no difference

lusty narwhal
#

i simmed weaponmaster vs the first dance on a 6 minute fight for my character and weaponmaster comes out about ~6k dps higher (~0.1%) but they’re basically the same range. is it fine to just pick weaponmaster, or am i missing something?

hazy breach
#

Its 0.1%, theres no difference

#

do whatever you feel like

#

Theyre both awful in longer raid fights

ornate current
hazy breach
#

4 or more targets

#

Theres nothing else

lusty narwhal
#

vanishing mid fight and waiting for tfd is never a thing in this raid, right?

#

if that even works

hazy breach
#

Bosses dont allow you to leave combat

#

So no

vale pine
lusty narwhal
#

ah you need to leave combat right..

vale pine
#

yes

#

you need to be out of combat for 6 sec, you can only do so on packs in keys or between bosses

#

boss fights keep you in combat

lusty narwhal
#

i saw that some rogue managed to fit 2 sec techs in the first dance with tfd

#

maybe thats a reason to pick it

vale pine
#

thats fine

#

just make sure to use the 2nd secret in a way to have the clone attacks empowered by dance

lusty narwhal
#

sim does not do that

coral wedge
#

is there a wa to track how many seconds out of combat?

hazy breach
#

It does

ornate current
#

Imagine they made it if you dont hit anything for 6 sceonds you get the buff

hazy breach
#

Its just not always happening

lusty narwhal
#

oh

hazy breach
#

Because its rng

vale pine
#

sim is only 1 sequence out of 10k iterations

#

so you would need to run the sim many times to get it in the sequence

lusty narwhal
#

thanks

crystal bone
#

in hardmode taz u can cheese it by pre-stacking sht

#

and 18 prism stacks

#

:)

gilded patio
#

i cant manage to copy the talent for m+, would someone please share a picture of it instead?`i want to follow the picture instead. Please 🙂

ornate current
#

Do prism stacks reset on boss pull in raid?

hazy breach
#

Yes, it resets on raid boss pull and key start

short radish
lilac stag
vale pine
#

i did not notice the absence of rotten

#

i like cb over tea tho

#

idk why

short radish
#

wait is my thing outdated?

vale pine
#

felt better to play

#

no

short radish
#

tbh i might go back to the CB build

#

because of prism

vale pine
#

but people prefere diffrent alterations of talents

#

e.g. many will use inev or rotten

#

anso they do things like this

short radish
#

yeah im playing inev

image.png
zealous flint
#

Are you guys changing talents around much for raid bosses? or mostly the same.

short radish
#

same

vale pine
#

e.g. this is probably close to one of the popular layouts

image.png
#

or your version

#

i tried tea, i did like the energy flow

#

but cold blood just feels better to play for me

#

tho thats rly just personal preference

crystal bone
#

fuu we need a rotten badge

vale pine
#

haha

zealous flint
#

without tea, its natural to have like giga downtime without symbols/dance right

#

as in, auto attack only for a bit sometimes haha

vale pine
#

yes

#

your cooldowns is your bread and butter

#

we feel fairly weak outside

#

but powerful inside

zealous flint
#

Sweet 🙂

short radish
#

tbh yeah i dont like tea when backstab procs at the end of the pull

slow gorge
#

so its normal to do nothing outside of our cd?

hazy breach
#

Yes

short radish
#

!design

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

slow gorge
#

oki ty

#

im from sin and trying to play sub on raid because sin seems to be a bit odd

coral wedge
#

assassination is fully bugged atm yeah

hazy breach
#

clueless Ye and sub isnt clueless

swift tinsel
#

just wait

#

lmao

#

like leaving a burning house into a pit of quicksand

deep girder
#

@slow gorge love the fatebound coin sound though

upper narwhal
#

Subs bugs at least have less gameplay impact than Assa

hazy breach
#

Not really

upper narwhal
#

Randomly not getting 4p or getting 1 min deathmark is so aids

swift tinsel
#

lol shadowcraft coup

hazy breach
#

The shadowcraft refund bugs surely affect the gameplay feel

spice lichen
swift tinsel
#

lmao coup bricked by lag

upper narwhal
#

Shadowcraft premed bug is the most annoying for me

swift tinsel
#

kekw shadowcraft premed

crystal bone
#

are we supposed to get a full refund after sending sectec? assuming we have the stacks for it?

hazy breach
#

Yes

rustic sonnet
#

outside of shadowdance, in aoe, is it recommended to spread rupture around before black powder as a spender?

hazy breach
#

It has nothing to do with sectech

#

You just wont get any refund while premed is up

swift tinsel
#

omegalul coup finality

crystal bone
#

ohhh okay

hazy breach
#

Thats a bug fwiw, thats why it doesnt make sense

#

Same with coup being able to refund on all of its hits instead of just the first

swift tinsel
#

or when each hit could reset s2 tier

crystal bone
#

ive noticed that as well

hazy breach
crystal bone
#

send coup with 7+ stacks and i still need to storm coup

shadow lance
#

Should not

hazy breach
#

Both finality and the refund works like it should if you dont have shadowed finishers, same with nimble flurry percentages, same with the tier, same with all of the eviscerate increases in deathstalker

shadow lance
#

Unless you're not talented in shadowcraft

slow gorge
fallow nimbus
#

Assa is dooming and we are vibing because we don't know it any other way kekw

crystal atlas
#

Outside of cds do we just semi hold sod and do backstab maintain rupture and evis?

hazy breach
lilac stag
#

Have they mentioned the target capped positive bug?

fallow nimbus
#

No

lilac stag
hazy breach
#

And as a rule of thumb not when flag has less than 30s left

hazy breach
swift tinsel
crystal atlas
#

Answers me perfectly thank you wasnt sure if I just dry send SoD and backstab and evis or only us SoD during dance

lilac stag
rustic sonnet
#

im not sure im following the guide right on aoe rotation: outside of shadowdance, in aoe, is it recommended to spread rupture around before black powder as a spender?

lilac stag
#

clearly if it’s positive it’s not a bug worth reporting

gilded patio
#

thank you for the picture, but now i am lost. should i play without the rotten?

crystal atlas
#

Feel like I'm just dying outside of dance and SoD for anything meaningless lol

gilded patio
#

and cold blood or tea?

lilac stag
wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

celest juniper
#

In AOE how many targets until we skip rupture?

gilded patio
#

!design

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

tepid trellis
#

ya dont

shadow lance
#

Some weak aura nerd online?

swift tinsel
#

depends

swift tinsel
shadow lance
#

Understand how to enlight my supercharged CP

swift tinsel
#

should be conditions under Power for charged CP

#

depending on what cp bar/circle addon you use for cp 1 do charged >= 1 and for cp 2 do charged = 2

crystal bone
#

!wa

wicked joltBOT
swift tinsel
#

otherwise here's an old backup of a previous version I used that has conditions for it you can copy https://wago.io/jW1lrFQzO

Rogue Circle Combo Points 2

Modified Rogue Circle Combo Points to show Shadow Techniques as red circles for 1-7 and larger yellow circles for 8-14 f

crystal bone
#

man LE's is so clean

shadow lance
#

I'm updating my wa, it's afenar based

#

I tried to check in what Lisonna did

#

But it's custom code I don't get anything

swift tinsel
#

ah yeah mine doesn't use any custom code

#

since I don't know how to use most of that lol

#

but if you look at that one under conditions for cp 1 and 2 it'll show how to set them up for charged combo points

shadow lance
#

Yep, gonan check that

swift tinsel
#

does afenar have a combo point bar with each cp as a trigger

shadow lance
#

I just realized I still got these

image.png
swift tinsel
#

well, aura

shadow lance
#

Yep

swift tinsel
#

lol retro

#

cool then setting it up will be super easy

feral knot
#

are raid finder boots relevant?

shadow lance
#

Sim

shadow lance
#

I lost 2 cp in my bar kekw

shadow lance
nova dew
#

guys should i be macroing SD with symbols, if not why?

swift tinsel
rapid forum
wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

swift tinsel
#

on cp 1 and 2

rapid forum
#

ah rip

#

thought it explains why

swift tinsel
#

!burst

wicked joltBOT
#

During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.

swift tinsel
rancid crow
#

I'm a little confused. A lot of guides and videos say to use backstab in your shadowdance window to increase the damage from Danse Macabre, but when I'm in my dance. backstab turns into shadowstrike. Is it still giving the extra damage?

swift tinsel
#

it doesn't change to strike, you just have it on the same bind

#

in your stealth and non-stealth bar

#

!bs

wicked joltBOT
#

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

nova dew
#

how bad is it to have macroed? my fingers are slow xD

swift tinsel
#

can also use this so you don't need to bind both on your stealth bar

rancid crow
swift tinsel
#

the only time your builders actually get replaced is Audacity for outlaw and Blindside for sin

rapid forum
#

outlaw one is budged

obtuse shard
#

I'm so sad about my araz killed, it got pushed too fast it skips the 2nd dmg amp with my 18 prism stack

swift tinsel
#

in true rogue fashion

rapid forum
shadow lance
#

I used thr wrong power function

swift tinsel
#

ah

earnest escarp
#

!gear

wicked joltBOT
rancid crow
#

could you macro backstab to shadowdance for the Danse stack?

hazy breach
#

!bs

wicked joltBOT
#

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

shadow lance
#

Yeah, but still can't color that shit

#

That's you wa condition

image.png
nova dew
#

do we backstab everytime we SD?

short radish
#

if FW is up yeah

nova dew
#

ok ty

shadow lance
#

Even if not

nova dew
#

ah so always

#

just macro and press

slow gorge
#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

shadow lance
#

You press BS if you low CP after pressing dance

#

!bs

wicked joltBOT
#

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

astral axle
#

i just keep strike and backstab on different key binds CAUGHT1CAUGHT2

#

macros like that are confusing for my smol brain

nova dew
short radish
#

when you sectech

#

its not good

swift tinsel
#

using backstab as first builder after dance grants full combo points bc of Premeditation, so you want to cast it with as few combo points as possible to avoid cp waste

nova dew
#

i understand that u press it after SD for dance stacks since premed gives full cp, but is there a situation where we dont want to BS after SD?

shadow lance
short radish
#

if y9ou play without rotten

#

it exists plenty of times

shadow lance
#

Even rotten got nothing to do there xD

lilac stag
short radish
#

?????

#

you dont have 100% crit chance

swift tinsel
#

it pops up outside of opener

shadow lance
#

If you start a raid encounter, you got FW from first SS

#

Rotten, we don't proc it in opener

#

Unless you got Coup proc during rotte nbuff

short radish
#

yeah on the start of the encounter sure

shadow lance
#

And if you chain a pack, you just spam Storm to put ruptures

swift tinsel
#

if you're not playing rotten it can happen with any of your post-flag dances

short radish
#

but what about 2 minutes in on fractilus when all youv ehad to drink is backstab soup

lilac stag
#

can I get some backstab porridge?

short radish
#

no

swift tinsel
#

best we can do is backstab goulash

short radish
#

you will enjoy your iced backstab soup

swift tinsel
#

the noodles man

lilac stag
#

Backstab Vegemite?

spice matrix
#

backstab from the front Sludge

swift tinsel
#

croikey

spice matrix
#

frontstab

short radish
#

then that'd just be frontstab

#

or maybe even regular stab

short radish
shadow lance
#

And you don't care about FW with sectec cuz it's mainly magic damages

short radish
#

brother

#

please do not spread misinformation

lilac stag
#

holy

short radish
#

which part of this is magic

image.png
lilac stag
#

red names spreading misinformation.

tepid trellis
#

sectech is like 80% shadow dmg

#

only the first hit is phys

#

clones are shadow

short radish
#

isnt it all phys?

hazy breach
swift tinsel
#

nope

shadow lance
#

No

tepid trellis
#

no

short radish
#

am i spreading misinformation

hazy breach
#

Most of it is magic

shadow lance
#

Sit down now

#

ffs

short radish
#

already was

spice matrix
lilac stag
#

good luck having no FW

spice matrix
#

fimbul rn

lilac stag
#

You run that

short radish
hazy breach
#

Bro read the tooltip and thought it would represent what the spell does

#

Rookie mistake in world of wacraft

short radish
#

yeah thats my mistake

swift tinsel
#

lmao imagine

short radish
spice matrix
#

Shadow Clones?? No, no.. they are physical clones

short radish
#

idk i swear i read in here saying sectech is phys damage

#

so i was like oh okay its phys damage even though it says shadow clones

swift tinsel
#

I mean you're 1/3 right

short radish
#

and the tooltip says physical

tepid trellis
#

well the initial hit from yourself is

short radish
#

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

shadow lance
#

More 1/5 right

swift tinsel
#

3 damage events, one of them phys

short radish
#

either way though i swear i saw sims where if you sectech without FW up

#

it was a 2% dps minus

#

or am i being gaslamped now

shadow lance
#

The only thing I can tell is that Details is fcking up

swift tinsel
#

core issue is FW exists

#

plz delete

shadow lance
swift tinsel
#

ye iirc theres a script to split them

short radish
#

true just delete FW

swift tinsel
#

bc mine does

tepid trellis
#

only thing i do with backstab in dance

swift tinsel
#

same with coup

tepid trellis
#

if my target already has FW i do it

#

if it doesnt i strike

#

but thats just me going by what feels right

short radish
#

based feelcraft enjoyer

lilac stag
#

No feels here

shadow lance
#

And it doesn't happen a lot

lilac stag
#

Only religion

hazy breach
shadow lance
#

I'm sure

hazy breach
#

Probably

swift tinsel
#

ye thought ryldd looked at that

short radish
#

yeah thats the one i was thinking of

hazy breach
short radish
#

idk though it just feels off to not have FW for sectech

#

wait so it's just dps neutral?

image.png
warm marlin
#

well the robot stands behind by default

tepid trellis
#

well it has like a 60+% chance of applying it

warm marlin
#

so FW is 100% uptime

vale pine
lilac stag
#

give the robot a frontal

swift tinsel
#

that's illegal

#

for now

warm marlin
#

#1065728795455266888 message
this is from s2 but you do want to shadowstrike if FW is not up coming into cds, as you might expect. its still a loss but you cut it from ~4% to ~2%

lavish condor
#

Hi,

im learning Sub as a M+ weekly for fun alt.
I seem to quite often run out of energy so to not auto attackl for multiple seconds i just press backstab.
If I red the guide correctly there is no point in Keybindng Slice and dice right?
What can i do to get a better energy "income"?

hazy breach
#

!design

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

shrewd lantern
#

lmao

#

me when someone says sub has funnel

#

in the year 2025

short radish
vale pine
#

sub funnel is a joke by now

shrewd lantern
#

i swear its always the people who barely play rogue

vale pine
#

blizz removed all funnel and gave it to assasisantion or other classes

shrewd lantern
#

who have the most room temp iq takes

#

on how the class works

#

and insist on being an expert

short radish
#

dratnos mentioning sub funnel multiple times

warm marlin
vale pine
#

we have good prio damage (lose little damage to the main target while doing aoe)

short radish
vale pine
#

but funnel is so low, you can ignore it

short radish
#

speaking of prio

hazy breach
#

Dr. Atnos do be wrong sometimes, its unfortunate

short radish
#

how troll is black powder on mythic azaz

swift tinsel
#

me, storming into evisc

#

Funnel Machine

rapid forum
swift tinsel
#

kekw

brittle plinth
#

How is priority different than funnel

rapid forum
#

but echo and amp wants st

vale pine
brittle plinth
rapid forum
#

if your raid blasts adds might as well just evis

vale pine
#

funnel basically means your single target increases with additional targets

shadow lance
short radish
shadow lance
#

Prio, is big damages on a specific target

swift tinsel
vale pine
#

e.g. for assasisantion you get additional agi for ruptures, and more energy, basically giving you more ressources to work with

short radish
vale pine
#

for subtlety, we have a similar benefit

#

BUT

#

shadowblades, shadowcraft, premediation, ...

#

all do mean the addiitonal ressource income is low

#

and unlike assasisantion

hazy breach
shadow lance
vale pine
#

we don't get extra benefits outside of storm creating more combo points

hazy breach
#

Massive upswing compared to 0 the previous two tiers

vale pine
#

so the gain from more targets is lower, and this means the increase for doing funnel is low

lilac stag
vale pine
#

priority damage is a diffrent thing

swift tinsel
#

I'm surprised none of the fotms in my guild have a rogue this season

vale pine
#

it basically means how much of your single target you keep while doing aoe

lilac stag
#

what were we even talking about?

brittle plinth
#

So our funnel is more a gimmick than a function

rapid forum
vale pine
#

to make it simple lets look at old outlaw BF

short radish
vale pine
#

you basically activated it and it did a % of your st as aoe

lilac stag
short radish
#

true

vale pine
#

you lose no damage to the main target for that reason

#

while hitting the other targets fo X%

shrewd lantern
#

lets be real

#

most players dont know either

short radish
vale pine
#

this damage to the main target is priority damage