subtlety

[loud tiger]

rest mastery

for m+ i have to mention

[alpine wraith]

it is ok

stats are whatever

just try go get anything but haste

[dusk stone]

what fight is this

[silent pecan]

what is the best combo of trinkets for raid?

[karmic harbor]

loomithar mythic

[slow gorge]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[vale pine]

netherprism + forge for the last bosses.
netherprism + passive trinket is all around good

[alpine wraith]

maybe he used the tech i had shown the other day

i will try it when i get there

[terse wolf]

fuu other than watching povs how do i nail down the rotation outside of big cds

cant get the hang of it yet, and it just makes me swap back to outlaw

[vale pine]

practice

[gaunt bluff]

so if im not getting 18 in m+ should i not send on my second blades?

[vale pine]

the best way to learn is to practice

[gaunt bluff]

or do i just send at 9+

[dusk stone]

yeah i was wondering about loomithar, there's no way there's not some good room for sub there given 18 prism is a thing

[vale pine]

you know you want 2x dance/symbols every 90 sec

[terse wolf]

yea but i gotta brick keys for it, feels weird

[vale pine]

so the one thing left is to learn when you can use dance/symbols/secret between these cooldowns

even good players make mistakes

[terse wolf]

other than that i just use em?

[vale pine]

you can ask eleem, stealthi, prophet or others in here

[vale pine]

well yes

you don't just use all your symbols/dances

because if you do

[swift tinsel]

You need to get a feel for when you can send them outside flag/blades

[vale pine]

you are out of charges when your 90 sec cooldowns are up again

[swift tinsel]

And that comes from experience

[terse wolf]

yea flag window will be empty if i do that

[vale pine]

So you need to know when you can use it

[paper flower]

Gotcha, ty all! Was wondering if those extra flawless stacks could be worth for holding sectech.

[vale pine]

without sacraficing your 90 sec windows

[lucid jackal]

Just go practice on the dummies

They exist for a reason

[terse wolf]

yea but its bringing fatigue

[lucid jackal]

Rotation should be mostly auto pilot

[vale pine]

you can as a rule of thumbs assume

[terse wolf]

aiming to get that

[lucid jackal]

Accept that you are going to fuck up

Take breaks

Same as any other sort of practice

[vale pine]

you got 1-2 extra casts between flagelaltion casts extra to the 2 times you cast it during

[dusk stone]

i tried cb in keys last night, i was running out of energy again

bp would get delayed while i could strike

[vale pine]

tea feels better in keys

[terse wolf]

uhum

[vale pine]

i like cold blood more

[dusk stone]

i thought i was imagining it but no

[vale pine]

i mean its logical

[bleak night]

ngl i played both and i didnt really notice tea at all except for outside of cds

[vale pine]

symbols of death has a 25 sec cd

[bleak night]

and that was kinda more vigor than anything else

[vale pine]

you use cooldowns every 90 secs

[alpine wraith]

yea vigor is big

[vale pine]

so you get 15 sec of "cdr" on symbols in addition

[alpine wraith]

lets you spread rupture for a bit without running out of energy

[dusk stone]

cb sectec is very strong though i will say

[vale pine]

after using 3x symbols

this 15 sec should mean every 2nd time you get a 2nd cast

BUT

you start a fight with 3 charges

so you have some extra wiggle room

handeling cooldowns between your 90 sec is actually the hard part about subtlety

[terse wolf]

yup

[dusk stone]

aside from symbols whats giving us energy in cds

[vale pine]

because just afking and sending stuff every 90 sec would be easy without it

shadowcraft

well sht

so make sure you stay in melee attack range

[dusk stone]

so yeah its actually pretty plausible to run out of energy then

[vale pine]

also if you use tea, you might have it ready for cooldowns

[dusk stone]

no shaman makes it worse

[vale pine]

you generate a lot of energy

so you shouldn't run out during cooldowns

[dusk stone]

i was though

[vale pine]

but outside

you def. will

[dusk stone]

it wasnt at the start of cds really, kinda closer to the end but i macro symbols and dance so i dont think its that i wasn't under both and dance always runs out before symbols

[gaunt bluff]

do u guys send netherprism in M+ at like 9-10 stacks if thats when blades come up?

or wait for near max

[vale pine]

it rly depends

if you go into a rly big pull

[gaunt bluff]

i mean if it's a good pull for our blades

[vale pine]

with 18 stacks

thats rly good

so you can alter your use pattern to adjust to pulls

[gaunt bluff]

or is it a case by case where for example id send blades here but still want 18 stack later for boss?

[vale pine]

but if you don't feel comfortable

just use it with blades

its still rly good

[fossil forge]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[fossil forge]

!araz

[golden kelp]

think majority of players just play with double on-use which kind of solves that whole problem in a way

[vale pine]

https://www.lorrgs.io/

[gaunt bluff]

it might be my 3rd week of not seeing araz drop in my splits

[vale pine]

is a good site if you want to know boss specific cooldown use

[gaunt bluff]

and i wouldnt be prio anyway

[dusk stone]

i hate that approach

if you carry the boss you deserve the loot

[gaunt bluff]

i aint carrying shit bruh on sub

i played assa my first time ever on st boss and got way higher parse

[dusk stone]

you are best spec in the game for araz

[gaunt bluff]

too much thinking about cds on sub

[haughty mural]

I got it today

[gaunt bluff]

ye we're only starting prog this week tho

[kind river]

yeah fateweaver assa is doing well on ST boss, that's not a shocker lol

[gaunt bluff]

i just meant im doing way better on assa as a first timer than on sub which i played this season so far

[vale pine]

i don't like individual players wanting loot simply because the boss design fits their spec better

[gaunt bluff]

and like i know what im doing wrong but i need more pulls on bosses that actually matter

[vale pine]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[gaunt bluff]

than heroic ones

[vale pine]

because

if we go down that route

subtlety would not get prism

[gaunt bluff]

i mean he was just joking probably

but araz is too good on other specs like feral

to be given to me

[vale pine]

^^

[dusk stone]

not really, worst feeling to carry a lot of stuff and not get much

[kind river]

I got prism somehow and my guild just looks at % sim stuff (mostly, some other considerations)

[dusk stone]

but also not wrong about prism

[kind river]

cuz it was a 2.4% sub upgrade

[vale pine]

we are literally the worse spec in the game on fractilus

so ye

no prism for you

and without prism

you won't carry on the other bosses

so tough luck for you

[hexed sluice]

nothing a little gaslighting cant solve

[kind river]

I'm just gonna use my prism for fateweaver assa on frac

it doesn't get as much out of it as sub does

but it's still a gain

and huge on the 2 bosses past frac

[dusk stone]

whats with prism being significantly better

[umbral fulcrum]

is this just ilvl on lily beating forge here? i just got prism and sent the sim https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gxBbGdYB5QH4ywKB5qQ1kP

[gaunt bluff]

surely outlaw is worse....

[dusk stone]

its only 1.5% ahead lilly and maker

[gaunt bluff]

[left ledge]

Outlaw is only worse if you get mechanics

If you don’t, outlaw is better

Sadly getting unlucky once with mechanics means your whole pull is fucked on outlaw

But outside of that, sub can’t backstab fractillus properly

The boss doesn’t have a “back” side

On top of sub having weak ST

[vale pine]

seems like affliction is

[distant mist]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[vale pine]

funny

[gaunt bluff]

[vale pine]

last time i checked we where

[gaunt bluff]

dude its so fucking funny they nerfed affliction

cus of the old tier set

like get fucked forever now

[hazy breach]

That was us last tier

[vale pine]

mythic sadly has not enough parses to have a meaningful statistic

[hazy breach]

[kind river]

you would think its hyperbole to say they nerf stuff based on warcraft logs

[left ledge]

Ye they turbo fucked us last tier for no reason

[kind river]

but they just keep proving it

[left ledge]

[vale pine]

this xpac did sub dirty

[gaunt bluff]

yea i wouldnt know cus its my first time ever playing this

[vale pine]

outside of the first week of tiers

[west tide]

u think m antenna and m prism better than h araz and m prism for last 2 boss? wb if the araz is mythic too

[lucid jackal]

[lucid jackal]

Forge is very good on last 2

If both are max upgraded probs just those two

[umbral fulcrum]

i'm confused by this shadow blades macro, if you have lily + netherprism would you swap the lines ?

[west tide]

heroic good enough though?

max uppied

[kind river]

what is a good 3rd item, thinking very far in the future for dinars? like I'm probably gonna dinar a prism and a araz forge

[vale pine]

you would not use the macro with 2x on use

[kind river]

but the 3rd does not immediately come to mind

[vale pine]

but use trinkets individually

starting with lilly

[hazy breach]

Boots prob

[vale pine]

and then altering between both

[valid yoke]

So is double use trinket bis now?

[lucid jackal]

I doubt boots are on dinar vendor

But who knows

[kind river]

Oh....yeah duh

[umbral fulcrum]

could i macro in lily and then just manually press prism before the shadow blades macro

[hazy breach]

Why would they not be

[kind river]

it probably can't even appear in vault

cursed item

[hazy breach]

Boots can indeed appear in vault

[warm marlin]

stuff like the cantrip weapons were

surely the boots are

[lucid jackal]

Cuz it's an optional boss and they are kinda weird abt it

[dusk stone]

boots can appear in vault, i had them on week 1 but also mythic pacemaker

[lucid jackal]

They might tho

[vale pine]

could, but sounds like you introducing potential for mistakes

[umbral fulcrum]

true, my thinking was 2 keybinds is better than 3

[warm marlin]

does EE heal off nimble flurry, mr fuu

sounds like something that wouldn't work

[vale pine]

don't see why it would

[hazy breach]

It does not

[warm marlin]

[hazy breach]

Which is why the +healing taken is often more valuable in raid

And the shield leech more useful when you can BP a lot

[warm marlin]

ye unfortunate that every nimble flurry interaction has to be hard coded in

[lucid jackal]

I've played ee all raid

It's felt good

Heals a lot

[vale pine]

ee def. good

[lucid jackal]

Idk how much the other one actually does in practice

[warm marlin]

making overheal actually do something is probably helpful

[gaunt bluff]

do u guys prefer elusiveness or cd in raid

i feel like with elusiveness im kinda invincible cus i can spam defensives so often during symbols anyway

[hazy breach]

Elusiveness is rather useless most of the time in raid

[warm marlin]

cheat is mega op in raid unless there's a rare fight where its useless

[left ledge]

I used elusiveness on fract felt lil safer

But yeah you generally want cheat

[warm marlin]

i think fract is one of those exceptions

[left ledge]

Yeah because every damage event is so scripted

[vale pine]

you die to many things even with cheat this tier

[hazy breach]

Idk what you would be using elusiveness for on frac

[vale pine]

but ye

[left ledge]

On fract?

The breaks?

[hazy breach]

The dots?

[left ledge]

Yeah?

[hazy breach]

That gets reduced by feint already

[kind river]

elusiveness is no longer just non-area of effect damage

[left ledge]

With the aoe

[kind river]

you get evasion as an extra defensive as an extra bonus

[sly shore]

it's funny how bugged shadowblades is in world combat vs big elite mobs

[left ledge]

How does non elusive feint

Reduce dot damage

[hazy breach]

Because its coded as aoe

[warm marlin]

some dots are aoe cuh

[left ledge]

Weird but anyways elusive is more dr

[gaunt bluff]

?? tf

[hazy breach]

Its not though

[gaunt bluff]

is there a spreadsheet for this

[hazy breach]

You get evasion sure

[left ledge]

Yeah

[warm marlin]

sometimes

[hazy breach]

But aint no way a 20% wall on 2 min is better than cheat

[warm marlin]

rashanan dot is aoe for example

[left ledge]

Well I ran both talents

[naive zodiac]

cheat is kinda ass on dimensius

[sly shore]

it only works on the dot if you get the wall itself

[hazy breach]

All the bosses in arakara for example

[sly shore]

not the dot if someone else gets it

[left ledge]

Cheat was proccing quite often

[fallow nimbus]

now i can play the game how it is intended

[warm marlin]

seemed that way too from watching u 🙂

[kind river]

what the

[left ledge]

I went elusiveness and never dropped below half

[kind river]

somebody delete his items, quick

[left ledge]

So idk man

[west tide]

wow

[kind river]

that's unethical

[fallow nimbus]

from zero prism to max

[west tide]

please god drop m frac trinket this week

[lucid jackal]

Cheat kinda worthless on nexus king too

[left ledge]

Is it

Why

[lucid jackal]

At least p1 and platform

[warm marlin]

does it not save you from the beam

[lucid jackal]

P1 when u die u get mcd

[left ledge]

I guess I’ll run elusive there too

[sly shore]

you wanna run elusiveness on king

[lucid jackal]

Platform doesn't really do anything

[left ledge]

Good to know

[lucid jackal]

In p3 itll save u tho

Rogue is kinda immune to nexus king damage tho, other than the dot

The dot hurts

[left ledge]

What about dim

I didn’t see if they ran cheat

[distant mist]

ill lose so much dps if i apply just 2 rupture?

[fluid whale]

sry for silly question fairly new to sub rogue what poisons should i be using instant and atrophic poison or mplus?

[lucid jackal]

Not on dimensius but so many deaths on dimensius are literal instant kills

[leaden prairie]

@vale pine in hardmode, considering the fights are like 30s, im prestacking full supercharger, full sht, full prism etc, is rotten gaining a lot of value cuase of super short kill timer

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message

[lucid jackal]

Cheat doesn't save u from spaghetti

[warm marlin]

seemed like most ways u die are just death

no cheat

[shrewd lantern]

why do people talk elusive gives evasion dr

as if they didnt just take it off feint

[naive zodiac]

also most ways that you can die leave a dot that kills you forever

[shrewd lantern]

to give that to it

[vale pine]

HM has a lot of cheeses for sure

[naive zodiac]

cheat to walls -> die to dot, cheat to last phase circles -> die to dot

[vale pine]

cheat does not proc if the hit is > 2x your max hp

[left ledge]

O

[left ledge]

I didn’t see that

[vale pine]

this was not always the case

it was one of the many nerfs it got

e.g. the cheat death debuff did dissapear on death

now its not

[left ledge]

Did you end up just running elusive

[shrewd lantern]

Wasn't that change in legion

[vale pine]

legion or bfa ye

[naive zodiac]

i played elusiveness but i think perfecto played cheat so

[shrewd lantern]

that all cheats will not work if something is more than a 2x kill

[fluid whale]

just instant and atrophic poison for mplus?

[vale pine]

cheat death was used to cheese certain fight mechanics

[left ledge]

Hmmm

[vale pine]

e.g. in wod hfc

[left ledge]

Think imma go with elusiveness then

[exotic zephyr]

how worth is it to use a whetstone on the offhand

[vale pine]

you would use two rogues to soak with cheat death

[warm marlin]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tCFfvz6H8696k5aJq3auUC

you can steal these expert mode settings to check for taza hm sims

[vale pine]

basically making the fight a target dummy for the rest of the group

[calm haven]

Anyone replaced the delve belt yet

[hazy breach]

If anything its the opposite as less of your damage comes from strike when every finisher is supercharged

[modern seal]

Does the cold blood Sec tec not work? #showtooltip Secret Technique
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique

[hazy breach]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[vale pine]

yes, it can be better on heroic already

[leaden prairie]

no but im asking

if the rotten is better

[vale pine]

but mythic belt is pmuch guranteed

[leaden prairie]

hm

[vale pine]

ohh

[leaden prairie]

ye true

i didnt think about that

[hazy breach]

Whereas +6% from PE is always active

And works on finishers and unseen blade

[vale pine]

^

[alpine wraith]

yea big raid build

[vale pine]

finishers def. do big damage

you can also pre stack disoriented

think you did not mention it

[hazy breach]

If finality worked with coup we would play that, but it is what it is

[naive zodiac]

it will in 12.0

don’t worry

[shrewd lantern]

When they fix fatebound tier?

[vale pine]

i am kinda afraid

[hazy breach]

We have been getting one big bugfix per tier

[vale pine]

after blizz did say they want to not have hard specs in the game anymore

[warm marlin]

outlaw will tank the bullet for sub

[hazy breach]

Blades started working with sectech in undermine
Now blades sortof works with nimble

[shrewd lantern]

https://www.twitch.tv/imexile/clip/CourageousBlushingClintmullinsTriHard-MV4OCo4OeCirf5Yd
How else will we get gems like this.

[vale pine]

like, last "simplification"

was tea change

and idk if anyone loves how that turned out

[hazy breach]

10 days ago and still not fixed

[shrewd lantern]

nah they posted it was fixed

[naive zodiac]

“fixed” on tuesday btw

[shrewd lantern]

why would blizzard lie

[naive zodiac]

[shrewd lantern]

[kind river]

nice class

[hazy breach]

Just like when they posted about fazed working with nimble

Only took em 2 months

To actually fix it

Next week for sure though

Right

[vale pine]

i mean

[shrewd lantern]

They won't fix bugs fast

[vale pine]

many of our bugs took forever to fix

[shrewd lantern]

unless its outlaw players spamming infinite bte

[vale pine]

secret + long arms got fixed

the patch before they took out long arms

[hazy breach]

Well ye but most of them they didnt make a post stating that it was fixed

And then it wasnt

[vale pine]

replicating shadows/shadowcraft bug took over a year to fix

[naive zodiac]

they are aware of the delayed coup cp thing now atleast

[vale pine]

they took a month in s4 DF to make sub parses worth in combat logs

[fair stump]

Blades applies to sectec now and trickster now?

[vale pine]

subtlety def. is low prio for fixes

[left ledge]

I’ve just learned to accept delayed coup

RS delay though was a different beast

[fair stump]

Unless its broken in pvp, then they immediately nerf it

[left ledge]

If they didn’t fix that idk if I’d be playing sub rn

[hazy breach]

Ye and some other stuff too, we'll see what they do

[vale pine]

thats tuning

[left ledge]

Or well I guess I would since we don’t talent RS

[shrewd lantern]

wdym you dont like the 21st raider aka akaari's soul

on your wcl

[kind river]

at least we have poe soon with some good timing, right after the race - just as I'm settling into season vaultlogging

[fair stump]

path of exile?

[kind river]

yeah, well poe2

[fair stump]

isn't that coming like in december

[vale pine]

did they fix poe2?

[kind river]

that could mean a lot of things

[vale pine]

people had a fairly negative opinion on poe2 last time i asked

[kind river]

ah

it was easy to have a negative opinion of it last league I guess

some complaints about how towers are setup and found, and one skill overtaking the whole game

[vale pine]

tho i think hollow knight will consume a lot of attention soon

[kind river]

I still enjoy it and the new league seems good

[fair stump]

What's new league?

[kind river]

it's got the info on the home page

https://pathofexile2.com/home

also if you play trade leagues, some people much prefer SSF

but if you DO play trade this league is crazy

you can just trade with people without having to interact with them or deal with haggling

your items are listed in a shop that people enter your hideout and buy direct

[barren wren]

is it like a stress test not a full release ?

[kind river]

it's still considered early access yeah

but it is a full league release, not a stress test only weekend

[golden kelp]

how awful is antenna to play with? on a scale from 1 to "Transmitter on Ansurek"

[hazy breach]

Not bad at all

The orbs move towards you and last for 20 seconds

[valid yoke]

is antenna still bis?

[hazy breach]

Either antenna or forge

Combined with prism

[arctic heart]

which keys we run shuriken tornado?

gambit?

[mighty citrus]

whats bad about sigil? it sims decent no?

[solemn lance]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[south sedge]

without blades, is it worth to sstorm in dance in aoe to preserve unseen blade inbetween coup with 4set?

basically what im wondering is if there is a mob count breakpoint if at all

[hazy breach]

Like 4+

But it doesnt really matter

[plush roost]

But it spreads my fw big uppies!

[limpid gull]

should i just macro in prism into shadow blades

[novel plaza]

do i shuriken storm after coup degras on single target ?

[plush roost]

Only in blades

[novel plaza]

how about in multi target outside of blades?

[hybrid compass]

anyone got like a weakaura that tracks fazed? (on its own i dont need whole rogue wa)

[balmy bear]

For loot specialization, would the only difference between sub and outlaw be weapons, and would sub and assa be equivalent?

[dry zodiac]

yes

[solemn creek]

Assa = sub
If u dont plan to play outlaw.. dont pick outlaw as loot spec. If u get non dagger. Its unusable

[hazy breach]

Ye if you havent used any storms before you dance you'd use it for the FW

[warm marlin]

jk didnt read

[autumn sand]

Which dungs are generally better to play in as sub over assa though? And which bosses in raid would be, any ideeas?

[alpine wraith]

in dungeons unless you have a coordinated group sub works on all

as for raid i think only fractilus is clear assa others you can do fine as sub

or you are a passenger anyway like on soul hunters

[dusk stone]

i think gambit is sub key

so flood gambit streets db

sub is fine on all of them though

[valid yoke]

what cd left on flag do you hold dance and symbol?

sometimes I dont get enough dance

[hazy breach]

30 should be safe

[autumn sand]

I cant decide which to play lol, both are fun and both I like, I've done loom'ithar soulbinder and forgeweaver in hc with sub with my guild and it's been a blast, I've loved it and especially soulbinder I've done far better as sub than in asa

[hazy breach]

But its more a rule of thumb than a hard rule

[autumn sand]

And I've been wondering rn as I'm choosing between 2 trinks in vault which I take in consideration both specs for.

[sour void]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[glacial basin]

yo guys igot araz trinket now and wanna combo it with sth for m+
dont have the one from fractilus but ihave signet of priory and empowered crystal on myth track

[sturdy moat]

when would we swap tea and vigor for CB and lethality ?

murlok io is showing that it's taken more than tea but that's probably for 15+ keys

[lone linden]

I tried that build and I feel like I need a shaman in my keys? Otherwise I feel starved on energy

Unless I’m doing something wrong? Which is very possible

[slate marlin]

Doesnt murlok take the talents they have when logged out?

[solemn sonnet]

even without tea you should always have plenty of energy when you need it in dances

[slate marlin]

If its the case then consider that a lot of the data will be from.people logging out after raid

[lone linden]

Yeah, I just felt like I had to pool energy for dances, without vigor and tea

I only have 500 haste tho too

And had no shaman in the key

[solemn sonnet]

you have symbols for dance right?

[lone linden]

Yep

[edgy zenith]

holy fuck this spec is so broken rn wtf

[strong shoal]

What's the best way to use forge + prism? (in case there's no good passive trinket in the bags)

[shy scarab]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[edgy zenith]

last season was the hyperbolic training or whatever

[hazy breach]

Rotate and use one of them every blades

[sour void]

Hey guys is there a diminishing returns cap for mastery with this season ?
I am looking at fuus spreadsheet (at the dungeon slice sub sim) and notice he is wearing a lot of crit mastery gear aswell as crit/vers sockets instead of "pure" vers/mastery gear.
Or is crit becoming better in m+

[hazy breach]

As long as youre not getting haste on your items, thats pretty much the entire extent of thinking required for gearing

[alpine wraith]

yea all stats get dr after a point and others become better

just do a top gear when in doubt

it will make combinations and choose the best

[strong shoal]

Thanks eleem

[ember mural]

need a keybind for each trinket then? i cant macro them right?

[edgy zenith]

that delay on new 2set is very cringe, did they not learn anything from RS bug?

we hate delay

[hazy breach]

You can bind one of them to blades and have one other bind

[alpine wraith]

you can macro both to blades but beware if you hold for x time forge can be up

and mess up the 18 stack prism

[edgy zenith]

it's hard to react to 3 stacks of unseen > proc 2set, right?

or am I old and washed?

keep sending a BP instead fo coup bc tier set proc

maybe I'm just not ready for it yet

[tribal blade]

there's quite a delay on my end, but i play with 200 ms

not sure what the delay is with normal ping

[lucid jackal]

As long as you are mentally prepared for it potentially happening it's easier

I mean I fuck it up a bunch still

Usually when I'm super autopiloting

[edgy zenith]

yeah I feel like it's an Outlaw style react thing

gotta keep it in your brain that you can react or you're cooked

[timid geode]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[spark ridge]

how many shadow dances do we usually do between shadow blades

[alpine wraith]

depends sometimes 1 sometimes 2

we are almost close to always 2

but it can krangle if you are not careful

[hazy breach]

You should aim to have atleast 1 charge and 30 seconds left of dance whenever flag gets ready

[spark ridge]

do i use secret technique without dance?

[hazy breach]

Generally no

[hoary shore]

hello, is this detail good ? im learning the spec since assa is full bugged 🤓

[spark ridge]

do i just end up sitting on the cd for a while then?

[random hare]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[hazy breach]

Yeah

[golden lark]

How good is forge compared to Atenna? Also I heard Atenna is getting a nerf?

[loud brook]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[loud brook]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[hazy breach]

Theyre about the same overall, the antenna nerf is irrelevant

[onyx ivy]

is tricks bugged or something? It's not lasting an hour with So Tricky talented

[hazy breach]

It does, just hit something

[golden lark]

Aah okay, thanks a lot!

[onyx ivy]

oh

[karmic harbor]

So say I go into blades with coup up, do I use ss as a builder until I 2nd coup? Or is it just between first coup and 2nd I ss?

[hoary shore]

does my recount looks fine or im completely messed ?

[hazy breach]

You dont want to storm twice

[karmic harbor]

Ok tyvm

[hazy breach]

You should be getting a refund on either of them though

Like either inbetween the sectech+coup or the coup+coup

So you can just storm the other one

[scenic yarrow]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[hoary shore]

why am I just getting /ignore lmao

[lucid jackal]

cuz ur question is vague and hard to answer

[hoary shore]

big mistakes don't figure on recounts ?

[lucid jackal]

Its gonna depend on dungeon/route/comp

No details doesn't really tell you anything

Like here is my gambit vs my priory

Neither of these tell me any useful information other than "Heres my overall"

[left ledge]

actually i cant see your overall from that either

[karmic harbor]

Fuck black powder 🎙️

[left ledge]

[lucid jackal]

lol

[left ledge]

if you want feedback you should log your runs and then post them

that way people can look at how you're playing your cooldowns

sub is a spec of cd management and then executing your cds properly

there's nothing to go off of with just seeing flurry, sectec, powder because those buttons are going to be pressed anyways

you could be pressing sectec outside of cds and we would never know from details/recount

[fickle jolt]

where can we see what bugs there currently are?

[hazy breach]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[lilac stag]

Black powder is bae

[rapid stream]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[fickle jolt]

ty

[fiery rampart]

jsut had a 9m overall halls as sub with sigil of cosmic hunt

that shit blasts

probably gunna run it more with prism

[lucid jackal]

Yeah its very solid

2x on use is a bit overrated

[fiery rampart]

i dont like it and i wont play that crap

[karmic harbor]

No thank you, that spell isn't even on my bars in keys its eviscerate only

😎

[fiery rampart]

lowkey i hate black powder too

[lilac stag]

Guess you don’t like doing damage

[short radish]

hope it was worth it

black powder my beloved

[karmic harbor]

I like doing real manly damage not padding on adds

[lilac stag]

5 caster adds. All need to die. Way to int.

but you do you

Can’t wait til we get another BP buff

[fickle jolt]

I've never actually submitted a bug report and I think I found one how do I got about that?

[earnest escarp]

is it worth tracking flawless form? switched to devs WA and it does track it unless im dumb

doesnt*

[karmic harbor]

[short radish]

i unironically miss the days of when we used to shuriken storm + bp

[karmic harbor]

Bring back legion sub rogue

[hazy breach]

Escape > support > bug report

[short radish]

not having to worry about position requirements was comfy

[hazy breach]

What is the bug though

[lilac stag]

Yeah having no finisher damage for 1/2 of legion was amazing

[lucid jackal]

Current sub rogue is legit near perfect

Only issues are like, dumb random shit

[fickle jolt]

first dance says stay out of combat for 6 seconds but when the buff comes up it starts at 10

[lucid jackal]

Like fazed, like find weakness, like random bugs that really dont affect gameplay but just random numbers

[lilac stag]

prism gaming is fun

[hazy breach]

Its because youre in pvp /warmode

[warm marlin]

you are in pvp

[short radish]

like sub rogue OTPs complaining about their spec being weak?

[fickle jolt]

I thought that mightve been it but it still does it

[hazy breach]

Ye if we could just have a prism/spymaster every tier, that would be lit

[short radish]

prism is just such a goated trinket

[lunar bluff]

I’ll do a sub key tonight guys

[lilac stag]

Replace flag with prism. Problem fixes itself.

[lunar bluff]

What key should I do

[lilac stag]

Dawn

[short radish]

the simulations didnt account for how much more fun it makes the game

dawn

[pulsar hemlock]

It's trackable on Devlins, just have to enable it in custom options.

[short radish]

dawn is the ultimate sub key

[lunar bluff]

I need a high Daana thanks

dawn

[earnest escarp]

says its enabled but not showing when im in in combat (im wa n00b)

[elfin saffron]

are you supposed to fit in 3 sectecs during flag window? i can only do it like 20% of the time, and i don't see top rogues doing it consistently either

[warm marlin]

need to proc coup twice before then pretty sure

its tight and rng

[hazy breach]

Ye either need good rng, BL or a mix of both

[elfin saffron]

roger that

[lilac stag]

just high roll

[short radish]

also need to have stacked supercharger + sectech from a previous wipe/adds

!prepull

[wicked jolt]

Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.

• Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
  NOT Recommended - Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully.
• Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
  Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than 1% damage gain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.

[earnest escarp]

nvm i think i got it

[hazy breach]

In hardmode with 7 supercharger its easy though

[lilac stag]

afk gaming

[hazy breach]

I afk on the trash instead to opt time

[lilac stag]

big brain

sorry no CDs for trash

[warm marlin]

i think you can get 3x sectec in blades with good rng in hm

crazy stuff

[limber relic]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[raw wadi]

Isn't it only possible with first dance?

[short radish]

why dont we just stack haste instead of vers

[lilac stag]

Who hurt you?

[warm marlin]

well ya but ur gonna be running first dance for hardmode burns

[short radish]

my ranged players not doing fucking mechanics on fractilus

YOU HAVE ONE FUCKING JOB

LISTEN TO THE WEAK AURA

DO NOT KILL PEOPLE WITH CIRCLES

[lilac stag]

[short radish]

sorry

thats two jobs

but they didnt do either of them

[lilac stag]

[short radish]

my copium that gets me through is that because we didnt kill it last night

and we have a heroic clear tomorrow

[lilac stag]

Classic we don’t need WA Andy’s

[short radish]

heroic prism will drop and the RL can take it

which means i can roll for the myth one

[lilac stag]

Is RL a hunter?

[short radish]

yeah

[lilac stag]

It sucks for BM and ain’t no way he’s playing mm while leading

[raw wadi]

You can precloak and stack

[short radish]

he's playing MM and raid leading

[lilac stag]

god bless

[short radish]

YEAH IM NOT THE PROBLEM

[bleak night]

my raid leader plays arcane mage

[short radish]

ITS THE RANGED PLAYERS RUNNING TO CIRCLE

[lilac stag]

does he blame Rng for all the Dps issues?

[short radish]

WHEN THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO RUN TO STAR

[bleak night]

have you tried just being better

idk

[short radish]

no he blames the fact our raid team combined has less than 20 IQ on dps issues

[lilac stag]

Range’s job is to annoy the fuck out of melee with mobility

[bleak night]

its ok though i was sat for first boss mythic after reclear because they wanted to try and get everyone (28 man roster btw) a myth vault this week

and they took an hour to kill it

[lilac stag]

Oof

[bleak night]

[lilac stag]

We only had 24 this week. 15 mins on first boss with 4 new people.

[short radish]

average plexus prog

[bleak night]

took like twice as long to kill it this week as it did last week

it wasnt prog

[raw wadi]

Is it possible to step fractilus?

Was too scared to try it

[short radish]

yeah you just get knocked back

[lilac stag]

It is with that many new folks.

[bleak night]

stepping fract probably just puts you on the front

[bleak night]

ye true

there were a lot of people who hadnt killed

[short radish]

i was doing it last night after knockback from wall break

[raw wadi]

Did you ever step at dimensius P1? 💀

[short radish]

yes

[bleak night]

also ive heard stepping can fuck with the walls

if you do it during that

[short radish]

you just gotta bolt it straight away

[lilac stag]

Soulbinder took us 30 mins. Had 6 new people.

[bleak night]

cant confirm though i never do it

[short radish]

so you dont get knocked from tank melee

[raw wadi]

Where is his hitbox? When I play evoker my living flame is travelling for like 2 seconds

[short radish]

in the fucking void literally

his hitbox doenst exist or something

[lilac stag]

there is no hit box.

[raw wadi]

Yeah it's annoying... Can't await mythic

[bleak night]

shouldve been a caster

[lilac stag]

Htf did we go from gally to demin hit box

[hoary shore]

ok thank you i will

[lilac stag]

fire that asshat

[short radish]

i dont know but i hate it

[bleak night]

dimi hitbox actually makes me mad

like i rarely get mad when im playing wow but it tilts me

so hard

[lilac stag]

I second that

[raw wadi]

I mean at some point blizzard should consider to make step non targeted... Like mages or evokers

[bleak night]

just sends me off the edge

[lilac stag]

step your DK

[bleak night]

oh i meant off the edge mentally

[raw wadi]

DK?

[bleak night]

[lilac stag]

Don’t need to step the mob

[warm marlin]

why does feint not work on oath breaker

[bleak night]

step as blink would be cursed

no thanks

[lilac stag]

Your DK isn’t getting knocked. Step to them.

[raw wadi]

Yeah I know but he is on the other site at fractillus or dimensius 😄 will be pain to run to the other site.

[bleak night]

even if someone is getting knocked stepping to them will stop your momentum

[lilac stag]

ask to be put on same side. Use your words

[hazy breach]

Who knows man

[bleak night]

just gotta do it fast

[hazy breach]

Its just completely random what feint works on

[lilac stag]

imagine only having one DK

[hazy breach]

Like in arakara it works on all the dots from the bosses

[lilac stag]

[bleak night]

sometimes i just press feint for vibes

dont know if its doing shit

[short radish]

does feint work on the circles from fract?

[bleak night]

just makes me feel better

[hazy breach]

No

But it works on the dot

[short radish]

cool im pressing it for nothing

wait

[lilac stag]

It’s a soothing sound

[short radish]

what

huh

[raw wadi]

Did we already blame the visibility of spirits at nexus king? Like when they spawn inside the dragons or w/e... Nothing gives me more hate.

[hazy breach]

Ye

[short radish]

[lilac stag]

[bleak night]

[hoary shore]

it is a priory 7, i know low key are not very accurate but i prefer to practice before try higher https://fr.warcraftlogs.com/reports/N7qcawWHMjgYv9Rm

[marble swift]

if i have araz and unyielding netherprism, is there any way I should specifically use them on mythic loomithar?

[lucid jackal]

Just alternate them

[marble swift]

lorrgs doesnt show araz for some reason

[lucid jackal]

No thinking

Forge prism forge prism

[marble swift]

thanks

[short radish]

why cant we combine them both into one trinket and call it forgeprism

[lucid jackal]

I haven't even been maghar for an entire tier

[marble swift]

does it ever change for any boss

ig by the macro

it does not

[lucid jackal]

I have prism manually binded as well for situations where forge comes up but prism is mega stacked

Like on mythic forgeweaver

But generally speaking, no

Same with mythic soulhunters, last set of CDs come up during 3rd intermission

where u should just save for when the bosses come back down stacked

[buoyant gale]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[signal bramble]

Any ideas why my nimble flurry is so bad on this pull?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/Mfmd3HrCyBt2Fzbk/self?fight=155%2C155&type=damage-done&source=1174%2C5

Im on the right

[cyan cobalt]

!symbols

[hazy breach]

The other rogue used his cooldowns the big add spawn, you didnt

[harsh wasp]

anyone have a macro to prevent symbols re-applying itself by accident? !symbols of death isn't working

[hazy breach]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[harsh wasp]

tyty

[lilac stag]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[hard trellis]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[crystal atlas]

.< cant get the hang of sub >.<

[sullen hare]

you will 🙂 eventually

[signal bramble]

its like every fight

[earnest escarp]

do what i do and int lower keys as practice

[signal bramble]

his Flury is 700k more dps than mine

[fresh ember]

Why is the hitbox of dimensius so bad, hit ss tp underneath him and get knocked to my death

[dusk stone]

whats the issue?

[hoary shore]

can someone tell me if im doing right or if i don't get it ? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/N7qcawWHMjgYv9Rm

[hazy breach]

The issue isnt really related to nimble flurry. I would suggest you read up on how to do the burst window and practice it on a dummy until you can do it consistently

[crystal atlas]

tbh kinda the whole spec just wrapping my head around it really, last time I touched this spec was in WoD

Main Sin / OTL until all the sin bugs

[hazy breach]

Wild how many people tried playing sub because sin is buggy without realizing sub is as, or even more buggy

[hazy breach]

This is not it chief

[short radish]

what the fuck

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[dusk stone]

do the opener, then try and figure out what goes beween the opener and do the opener again on a dummy

layer on the nuances after that

[spice matrix]

M Frac down, we have not seen a single netherprism in any difficulty... G Fucking G

[short radish]

sounds like us

except the m frac down bit

[rotund rain]

but what if deathstalker isn't that bad

[hazy breach]

Feel free to experiment my dude

[rotund rain]

I only really experimented on target dummy, I see it's weaker. they could just do some number tuning right, but idk if they will

[hazy breach]

But i am not liable to any mental damage you suffer while doing it

[hoary shore]

mmmh looks like im doing it really bad 😬

[hazy breach]

Hopefully not

[rotund rain]

I hate that rhetoric

I hope they buff it and it's behind trickster by like 2% then

[short radish]

i dont

[hazy breach]

Thats fair but to me the gameplay of deathstalker is so infinitely less fun than the trickster one

[short radish]

i hope they delete DS

[tribal blade]

you need to go to jail

[hoary sun]

This expansion is done buddy you won't see any tuning

[rotund rain]

exactly so you guys can just not play it and don't have to feel like you're losing out right?

[tribal blade]

DS is an abomination

[hazy breach]

Like if you play DS it removes all of the smooth QoL from trickster and replaces it with janky stuff youre forced to play around in a way thats completely unfun

[tribal blade]

worst thing in the game atm

[rotund rain]

okay this kind of reaction is a yikes to me

[hazy breach]

Have you tried playing deathstalker properly in aoe

[rotund rain]

I do find trickster more fun

[tribal blade]

oh you mean the hero tree you can completely lose

that makes you stuck to 1 target

[hazy breach]

By actively trying to not proc darkest night

[tribal blade]

and makes it really hard to target swap

[hazy breach]

And swapping the mark around to proc more clear the witnesses and to avoid darkest night

[tribal blade]

you can only apply it from stealth

it's so bad

[rotund rain]

well you also apply it with evis lol

[tribal blade]

no you have to apply the hero tree from stealth

which means if it drops for any reason

and you have no vanish (this is mostly sin)

[hazy breach]

Thats not an issue really as sub, you just dance and get it back

[tribal blade]

you completely lose your hero tree

as sub it's not as bad, but how it plays with sub is cursed af

[rotund rain]

yeah I kept wondering where the problem is lol, sub doesnt have that problem

anyway I just want them to be not so far apart so people have choice

thats always a plus imo

and yes let us move the mark

[tribal blade]

no sane person will ever choose DS over trickster

if they are equal

[lament brook]

is there any way to turn off the thistle tea auto usage so it stops wasting charges randomly when im outside of dance?

[rotund rain]

thats fine

[lament brook]

or do I just have to play around not letting my energy go too low

[hazy breach]

They made darkest night uncancelable in this patch unfortunately

[signal bramble]

nope, pool over 30

[hazy breach]

So thats a nerf to deathstalker aoe

[lament brook]

nice they add a feature to make thistle tea easier and they end up making it harder to play

[hazy breach]

You can also just not bother thinking about it

[swift tinsel]

Yep DS taking L's constantly like the good lord intended

[hazy breach]

Doesnt matter much

[signal bramble]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Mfmd3HrCyBt2Fzbk?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=5

cant figure out what my issue is here

[tribal blade]

there's a bunch of really simple changes they could make to DS to make it far more playable

and not as tilting

[swift tinsel]

yeah conceptually its cool but it was implemented so badly

well, mark as a concept

[tribal blade]

that's what happens when it's the last hero tree to be implemented during the PTR cycle 😉

[swift tinsel]

and funneling damage to marked target

[hazy breach]

Youre just not pressing buttons and youre not doing the burst window the way youre supposed to

[dusk stone]

DS's funnel is really strong at least in the 1 key i did

[hazy breach]

This dance with blades has 5 globals in it

[tribal blade]

the concept of DS is really cool yeagh

[hazy breach]

Instead of 8

!mistakes

[dusk stone]

its overall is just awful is the problem

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[swift tinsel]

just every single talent in the tree either doesn't work properly, is woefully undertuned, or is designed without any part of sub in mind

and the only way for its aoe to be less ass is to actively avoid proccing the capstone

10/10 no notes

only attention it got was buffing plague damage by what, 35-40%?

once two season ago

[tribal blade]

i really enjoyed how the meta was supposed to be sub swapping to DS in keys

[swift tinsel]

was our one shot to get funnel back and it was wholly botched

[tribal blade]

and then everyone just still played trickster instead

[dusk stone]

i dont think i saw more than 12mil on 12 eco with DS

for a pack

[sullen hare]

That certainly describes me Graham lol

[hazy breach]

You probably didnt play it optimally since its annoying as hell

[dusk stone]

i didnt optimize it at all ye because my talents somehow auto swapped into it

[hazy breach]

Strike target to get 3 stacks > bp > storm to use clear > bp > strike another target to reset mark to 3 > repeat

To actively avoid darkest night as much as possible

Because BP does more damage than it does at 4 targets

[dusk stone]

but i'm not going to see a massive increase in overall though right?

[hazy breach]

That stuff was like 7-8% in sims

[dusk stone]

10% more would not nearly be enough

[hazy breach]

Because youre not forced to use shitty darkest night

[swift tinsel]

you also get to contend with sod consuming marks too so you have to pay extra attention so you don't accidentally find yourself either not supercharging or not consuming mark with sectech

bc shadowcraft can be a bitch with that

[hazy breach]

You probably also played with shadowcraft, which is not good since those resets screw it

[dusk stone]

i really like the class fantasy of it too, its sad

[hazy breach]

So the ST is just ultra oof

[swift tinsel]

yeah the amount of times I laughed at the gameplay on ptr with the s3 set was many

because its

so

fuckin

bad

that's the only time I'd ever consider speccing out of shadowcraft

[dusk stone]

does sin have more positive interactions with sod and mark or

[lucid jackal]

@warm marlin

[dusk stone]

is it just not great all around

[swift tinsel]

they don't use sod

so no

[dusk stone]

oh yeah right

[hazy breach]

Close

[sullen hare]

I'm gonna be honest I don't even know the ds 4pc

[dusk stone]

its like shiv or something to consume mark

[swift tinsel]

sod consumes a stack of ds mark

[sullen hare]

Lol what

[hazy breach]

The 2p doesnt pandemic either, nor does it get increased by inevitability

[swift tinsel]

yep

[hazy breach]

And its 12s not 13s

[swift tinsel]

yeah its 100% agnostic of sod duration

[hazy breach]

for some reason

[swift tinsel]

hilariously

[hazy breach]

So you can have a 17s long symbols but the 2p is only 12s

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel kekw 11 priory

[swift tinsel]

its like they didn't even try

[hazy breach]

[swift tinsel]

and then nerfed the 2pc just for shits

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/dayum-dayum-son-damn-damn-son-brooklyn-nine-nine-gif-12213344

[lilac stag]

BP 📈

[swift tinsel]

"we'd prefer if you didn't play deathstalker sub" - John Blizzard

[lilac stag]

i need 2 more BP buffs

please and thank you

[warm marlin]

just beat the same fight liquid did cmon

[sullen hare]

Subtlety

• Black powder damaged increased by 69% (PvP-only)

[noble shale]

is it ok to macro shadow blades into dance?

[hazy breach]

Not ideal

[sullen hare]

I wouldn't

[swift tinsel]

omg I forgot how you can miss 2nd sectech in blades with ds lmao

[fading kayak]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[swift tinsel]

hahaha shitass hero tree

[lilac stag]

i can't wait to see what they pull from it for midnight

[sullen hare]

Hey remember how we used DS for almost some of a whole season?

[swift tinsel]

I'm punching myself in the nuts and seeing how it plays without shadowcraft

spoiler

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-pepeuniverse-pepeuniversenft-pepe-drink-pepe-drunk-gif-25130586

[hazy breach]

If you check the opener in any of the guides youll find that theyre not used at the exact same time, so its not the best idea

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[fading kayak]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[noble shale]

gotcha was just kinda wondering why makes sense with covering the second st

[hoary shore]

do we press shadowblade and dance right after flag+rupture or we wait ?

[solemn creek]

well hello

[lucid jackal]

we kill tn

[solemn creek]

1 secret technique on forgeweaver XD

[short radish]

you running double on use or prism + passive?

[lucid jackal]

Forge prism

Especially good on this boss

[dusk stone]

this more or less

[lucid jackal]

Cuz u do forge on pull prism next, then forge on platform, into full stack prism on the burn

[short radish]

hmmm

maybe i sholdnt have passed the forge to our evoker

oh well

[lucid jackal]

I mean antenna is fine

Just a smidge worse

[short radish]

i have pacemaker

[lucid jackal]

[hazy breach]

[dusk stone]

guy where are you sending CD's on saladbar

[short radish]

prism kinda ruined me. put me in too good of a mood

[lucid jackal]

Literally on CD

[hoary shore]

so we start dancing before pressing shadowblade

[short radish]

and made me feel sympathy for my fellow raiders still running lily

[dusk stone]

there's no particular benefit to holding or sending for adds or burn?

[hazy breach]

Surely theres a mythic prism tomorrow during reclear

[short radish]

[hazy breach]

Well if you send on cd it lines up

[fading kayak]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[lucid jackal]

On mythic is literally lines up perfectly

So theres nothing to plan lol

[dusk stone]

i see

[alpine wraith]

yep

[summer quartz]

random phone a friend question, cheat death is completely useless on mythic nexus king right?

[lucid jackal]

Only "planning" is sending vs saving 1 symbols/dance for dragon vs platform

[dusk stone]

trying to figure out what i'm suppose to do for H saladbar

[alpine wraith]

although you could get autumn to get it earlier

on platform then you get it earlier too for burn

[dusk stone]

so far i basically delay 1 dance and get flag for opener and burn more or less

[lucid jackal]

dont overthink it just CD on CD, unless burn phase is within 20 seconds or w.e

[alpine wraith]

yea only normal and hc get krangled becase you can skip phases

[lucid jackal]

Its gonna depend a lot on ur comp which u cant control really

just win git

[warm marlin]

i feel bad

guild gave me the first mythic atenna

(and i dont have a forge)

[alpine wraith]

i got normal forge

[warm marlin]

coping hard about prism passive ngl

[alpine wraith]

and lfr prism

literal welfare over here

[short radish]

ooooft

11.2.5 when

[frail night]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[distant mist]

I'm having a ton of issues with CDS alignments, especially in AOE. One mistake in the sequence and I'm totally screwed after that 🙁

[short radish]

thats okay, just sit on your cds for 20 seconds or something to resync

and just remember its fine to hold cds as sub

sometimes not doing damage is teh right play

[obtuse dirge]

why suriken during shadowblades for coup?

[hazy breach]

Just dont send any shadow dances or symbols when flagellation has ~25-30s left and youll be able to the burst properly

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[obtuse dirge]

ty

[short radish]

[hazy breach]

(the 30 seconds is not a hard rule you need to follow rigorously, but its a good rule of thumb until you get more familiar)