subtlety

[crystal bone]

[swift tinsel]

I’m tinkering with one that has a bar for each sod and dance charge so I can get a clear visual representation but I don’t think it’s practical at all

It looks cool at least lol

[autumn pawn]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[wind portal]

wouldn't macroing unyielding netherprism technically be suboptimal too?

[hazy breach]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[swift tinsel]

I’m trying to think of a way to have an aura or bar that shows remaining cooldown across charges

So like if I have 2x sod on cd it shows the 25sec of one and Xsec left of the other as one number

Again, probs not practical but my brain is weird

[vale pine]

if you use double on use, i would suggest not macroing

if you don't its most of the time fine to macro

ofc, best control is to have a seperate bind

[sick sand]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

@haughty mural this is what all three look like

[keen dome]

That's a really nice WA idea.

But also what flavours are those gummies.

[vale pine]

haha

[vagrant fulcrum]

is everything okay fuu?

[lilac stag]

bandit's guile flavor

[vale pine]

yes, i was just memeing

[swift tinsel]

I haven’t seen a German-style 1 in years

[keen dome]

At least it isn't as terrifying as the danish 90

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/kpop-demon-hunters-zoey-mira-screaming-gif-9715687560101101849

[swift tinsel]

We were marked incorrect if we didn’t stylize ours like that when I was in class lol

[keen dome]

I just couldn't write. Take that, teachers

[lilac stag]

cant write and expects people to count to 6

WTF

[swift tinsel]

It’s that UK sense of humor

Sorry, humour

[keen dome]

Precisely

i'm the leader so they've gotta listen to me!

[north schooner]

what is a german style 1?

[versed swift]

Am I insane to macro secret tech to cb but not vice versa? Example: sectec is it's own bind but CB is a macro of cb+sectec

We are only ever using cb for sectec anyways

[lilac stag]

that's what you should be doing

make the CB show tooltip for CB

[turbid edge]

Is there a command to get some popular UI weakauras for sub?

[north schooner]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[swift tinsel]

#subtlety message

[versed swift]

Why tooltip?

[turbid edge]

Perfect ty

[keen dome]

he can be your angle or your devil

[north schooner]

no f way that's the recommended way

[versed swift]

Oh for icon?

[graceful osprey]

How nutty is netherprisim at 18 stacks

[swift tinsel]

It’s pretty normal idk

[keen dome]

It'll make it so you are less likely to confuse the buttons

So you know that the CB one is just for X, and the non-CB one can be for Y

[lilac stag]

yeah instead of ending up with 2x sectech icons

[versed swift]

Half my bars on other classes are just the generic ? Icon

[keen dome]

Hahaha

Hero

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/this-smells-so-good-rumi-kpop-demon-hunters-the-aroma-is-delightful-netflix-gif-10917465647597832573

[swift tinsel]

Then again I took six years of the language so it’s normalized for me lol

[lilac stag]

like anything is normal in this channel

[crystal bone]

its pretty great when u 18 stack every boss in taz hardmode

[vale pine]

you rly like that movie? (its good)

[graceful osprey]

Praying to RNG gods that netherprisim drops this week and I win

[lilac stag]

my wife got the damn soundtrack ear wormed in my head

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[swift tinsel]

What is it?

[lilac stag]

kpop demon hunters

[vale pine]

k pop deamon hunters

[lilac stag]

it has no right being so good

[swift tinsel]

Ah, heard a lot of hype around it

Maybe I watch tonight after work

Helping someone grind portals so I’ll need something on the other screen lol

[lilac stag]

the soundtrack is really well produced. i think it's got 3 songs on top 100 right now

[graceful osprey]

Is the dimensius screams trinket decent in M+?

[vale pine]

which of the songs, golden?

[ripe flame]

my spotify has been that on repeat for like 2 weeks

please send help

[vale pine]

my gf likes the one from last fight the most

[ripe flame]

your idol is kinda goated

[left ledge]

guys is it weird that im still itching for more black powder buffs

feel like it needs just a couple more

we're so close to fully realizing sub's potential

[abstract oar]

Hell yeah

[vale pine]

[left ledge]

no as in its not weird

thank god

[vale pine]

#uncappsecret

and

#buffevis

[inland path]

!Fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vagrant fulcrum]

yo how capped is secret again?

[vale pine]

5 is soft cap

[vagrant fulcrum]

i remember it being 8

what happened

[hazy breach]

Never was

[swift tinsel]

uncapped secret would be just

[sour marsh]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[hazy breach]

It just should be 8, since everything else is 8

[vagrant fulcrum]

i guess the spell was so strong on aoe i thought it was less capped than it is

[vale pine]

CT on assasisaniton is soft cap 8, tho that is a bug and it should be 5 (its even in the tooltip)

[vagrant fulcrum]

ye, bp and ct are 8

at this point it should just be left at 8

andd sectec to 8

[vale pine]

think its intended to act like secret

both are likely 5 because they are powerful

[vagrant fulcrum]

they can afford us these kindnesses

[vale pine]

ct has a lot of power in the dot

tho i am with you

[vagrant fulcrum]

other classes have gained much over the years

[vale pine]

secret should be 8

i don't care about assa bugs

[vagrant fulcrum]

neither do blizz

[steel jolt]

[vale pine]

i mean all rogue specs have bugs

[vagrant fulcrum]

ye

entire class cursed

[vale pine]

subtlety had gameplay impacting bugs for over a year

before they got fixed

season 4

[grave zenith]

we probably dont want more than 20k mastery right? thats why my crit vers neck sims much better than mastery vers

[vale pine]

we had over a month

of logs not working

[onyx dawn]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[rocky pier]

why do we cold blood in 2nd shadow dance?

[vale pine]

being bottom of the wcl chart due to it

[vagrant fulcrum]

we talking dblades not affecting flurry? or akaaris soul

[vale pine]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[trail dawn]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[vale pine]

well point is, many bugs are not impacting gameplay

so while there are a lot of bugs

[lilac stag]

sorry 4 now.

[steel jolt]

my GF is obsessed with that movie

[vale pine]

the important ones are the ones that break geameplay

[steel jolt]

she just bought a hat and went to the singalong thing in theaters

[vale pine]

so when i say, we had a bug not fixed for a year which impacted gameplay

[rocky pier]

I see @wicked jolt ty, is it worth to shuriken storm in st though?

[vale pine]

thats kinda not good, compared to e.g. some spell doing a bit less than intended

[iron plover]

How do people find m+ push groups nowadays? My old shadowlands one no longer plays :(

[vale pine]

only for coup with tier set

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[vale pine]

point 2 and explenation

[rocky pier]

it states you can, not should, so I wonder if it is a dps increase to do so 😛

[vale pine]

around 1-1.5% dps

most optimizations are within that range

some are a bit less

and absolutely

any optimization is optional, and especially when learning not that important

the most important thing is to get a feeling for your cooldowns

[alpine wraith]

and when in doubt

scream

[vale pine]

to be able to have 2x symbols, 2x dance, 2x secret during your flagellation/blades

while still sending symbols/dance/secret a few times between

(and it can be painful, because you lose out quite a bit of damage for mistakes)

[onyx dawn]

Is Shindiggs guide still accurate for S3?

I'm sure he says in his video that we only want to send 2 SOD and 2 dances in our cds to ensure we have charges later down the line

[vale pine]

most of the gameplay stays the same

only some optimizations changed

which is stated in the pins

[onyx dawn]

Im screwing something somewhere and I'm trying to figure it out thats all

[upbeat garden]

gonna be subtlety still best after fixing bugs on assa ?

[onyx dawn]

dropping to 2.5mil st on dummies after cds and cant seem to get it back up in cds

[vale pine]

how much are the bugs worth?

[hazy breach]

like 5%ish

[alpine wraith]

it depends on your gear

[loud tiger]

is the build still the same for m+?

[alpine wraith]

2.5 mil no buffs with bad gear it is fine

[celest juniper]

I thought caustic spatter was double dipping and was getting nerfed

[vale pine]

are all bugs in simc

because 5% would put assa even more noticable ahead of us in st

[alpine wraith]

it got nerfed

but also bugged with singular focus

so double smashed

the bug is for cleave/aoe where they use DS

[vernal locust]

when do you use shiv?

[alpine wraith]

when a mob is enraged

[vale pine]

if there is an enrage effect to remove on the target

which funnily enough

does mean never

[vernal locust]

ah yeah, it has no dps gain eh

[vale pine]

in arakara

[iron plover]

It’s a tank issue anyways

[vernal locust]

silly sin rogue main.....

[hazy breach]

5% in aoe

Thats the new bug

But just like sub theres a bunch of other older bugs

[alpine wraith]

imagine they fix singular focus and buff the 4 set for sub and other shit for DS

once again

the horror

[vale pine]

hmm i wonder if people move back to assa if it would get the 5% bug fixed

[bleak wind]

ye but assa has a positive bug as well on ST right now that is not in sims, which is pretty massive

[strange chasm]

I would for ST if the tier set wasnt bugged

for the aoe fights and dungs still sub

[vale pine]

i mean you still play sin on fractilus

[crystal bone]

i wont

[alpine wraith]

nah play sub

gotta get the bar even lower

so we get noticed

[crystal bone]

fract parses only thing saving us from a nerf

i bet

[alpine wraith]

time to play sub and die midgifht

[vale pine]

not sure

arcane mage and warlock seems

quite a bit ahead of everything

and did not see nerfs

ele shaman too

[haughty mural]

that seems pretty nice

is it on wago ?

[vale pine]

should be easy to make tbh

[twilit phoenix]

Holy based

[lilac stag]

no i just altered the default trinket from LE

[turbid edge]

in dance, do we only ever backstab immediately after during premed, and never again? so i dont need backstab in my stealth bar with this?

[vale pine]

i can create one tomorrow if you want, just have raid soon

[crystal perch]

when should I use cold blood for aoe? at what key level?

[vale pine]

the macro will:

• first use -> dance
• second use -> backstab

[haughty mural]

thx 🙂

[vale pine]

so it allows you to control when you use backstab

[west tide]

so this in between coup shuriken storm, u cant do this when u get a sht proc and u get sent to full cp right

so its only sometimes u allowed?

[vale pine]

you don't need to if you can finish back to back

so ye

[west tide]

ok noice

[vale pine]

its only if you don't get cp refunds

[rustic raven]

Bring back shadowdust

Whos with me

[vale pine]

not me

[onyx dawn]

I wanted to change my weakaura pack to display my combo points blue when I have supercharger buff

Is it as simple as adding trigger : 470347 (supercharger) then condition if active then colour blue?

Does seem to work as you dont get a buff of supercharger when you SOD

[gloomy slate]

Finding ojt about the cold blood macro bug 3 weeks in is so fun, going back and realizing I had full raids where my use was 10 times.. total lol

[vale pine]

you don't need any buff tracking weakauras has a build in function for supercharger

moment

[random hare]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[little epoch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

you can do something like this for a condition

[little epoch]

fuu? a question is Sub atm goto for Mythic raiding or Assa FB?

[glossy turtle]

what is the focus target for the hunters in raid?

[trail dawn]

Inside Dance do we still Sec-tec before coup, don't we lose Disorienting Strikes if we are already at 4 stacks before going in to dance

[glossy turtle]

in the beginning. gotta keep em at the same health I assume

[lucid jackal]

Sub is the best rogue spec for raid, other than like, 3 bosses

And u don't even need to bother on those 3 bosses tbqh

[vale pine]

Subtlety, because the damage layout works best on the later bosses and we can use prism the best

[little epoch]

I see, my sims are a bit weird for assa i sim
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3ByPeFgJVSYjjM64cXBPai
For sub
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ksmKtmEzTxJxNr9fpd6muE

or is it wrong?

[lucid jackal]

St patchwork sims aren't the game

Nobody should be using 2 spec st patchwork sims to evaluate what is played in raid

This game is significantly more nuanced than 1 target, 5 minutes

[little epoch]

Okay so sub it is then^^

[crystal bone]

sims are only used to find upgrades

[little epoch]

Prism is used every SB cd right?

[warm marlin]

It is funny that they gave us a 5min exact patchwerk 100% uptime target dummy this raid though

[haughty mural]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[mystic merlin]

Anyone know if when using Dance + Symbols you wanna use shadow techniques immediatly or first use black powder / evis for danse macabre?

[lilac stag]

I can send it. Gimme a moment. You’ll likely need to modify it a little.

[tame agate]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[little epoch]

ok so usually every SB or if >=18 stacks = send it

[empty oyster]

antenna or is it useless for last 2?

[lucid jackal]

Lol literally

[mortal hamlet]

Is there anything you can do before pulling a boss other than using symbols ?

[little epoch]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[slate marlin]

depleted fg 16 by 15 seconds...right as shaman died to a puddle

[chrome palm]

I think the tanky one because she casts spirit bomb which is really dangerous and you want Atrophic on her to be sure

[lucid jackal]

U hit the tanky one because she doesn't move

The other two jump around lol

[lilac stag]

@haughty mural try this https://wago.io/qMgb7Xu8t

[versed swift]

When using double on use, forge + prism, are we holding cds for 30 seconds for forge or just sending dry

[haughty mural]

you are the best

thx

[versed swift]

Assuming we aren't using prism until 3minutes for big burst

[small hemlock]

just so i know i get it, i use shuriken storm during shadowblades to build CP with the new 4p bonus?

[devout basin]

Do we backstab as our first genrator in ever SD window for DM stack?

[chrome palm]

Uh yeah i just noticed in logs atro uptime is quite less than 100% for all three

Also obviously she just has more hp

[lucid jackal]

U just use them alternatively

Forge prism forge prism

[haughty mural]

@lilac stag it does fit almost perfectly

[left ledge]

Depends on amps and other factors too btw

Like sometimes I go forge - nothing - prism

For forge (the boss) I did that on reclear

Got a nice 18 stack

We almost skipped second amp

[versed swift]

That makes more sense, so prism gets used at 1:30 with 9 stacks roughly and again at 4:30 with 18
Ty ty

[onyx dawn]

@vale pine that makes them blue all the time, even without symbols active or have i missed a condition?

[little epoch]

is CB always with ST?

[mossy spear]

am i missing someth or are we supposed to spam bleeds like mad?

[left ledge]

It is with your second sectec in cooldowns

Never anywhere else

[left ledge]

You’re simming an RS build

[little epoch]

so not good to macro it?

[left ledge]

It is just spreading

[left ledge]

Good to macro, but you need two keybinds

One with cb and one without

No point in having cb as its own button

Just make that button a cb Sectec macro

And press it as your second sectec in cds

[hard rapids]

Should supercharger give a buff when you use symbols or no?

[little epoch]

just for my understanding for every second ST i use the CB/ST macro right?

sry just trying to get practice in sub

in terms of Single Target

[wild hornet]

why are people holding cds right before p2 on loomithar?

mythic specifically

are there any adds or what

[little epoch]

i think because of BL

[wild hornet]

nope

im checking on lorrgs

only the top log has bl then

[crystal bone]

because P2 is a 25% damage amp

[halcyon pendant]

amp phase!

[wild hornet]

ohh it does?

[left ledge]

No, only during flag and blades is it the second sectec

[wild hornet]

okay makes sense

[left ledge]

Not every second one

Once you do flag and blades, your first dance will have a non cb sectec

Your second dance will have the cb sectec

Outside of flag and blades, you are never pressing cb

[lilac stag]

Weird widescreen icons. Hahaha

[vale pine]

you need to changeit depending on the amount.
Your weakaura for the first combo points >=1
your weakaura for the second combo point >=2
...

[feral knot]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[wild hornet]

would you guys prefer to send flag in the beginning of the dmg amp phase or get cb sectec to hit it in the beginning of it

logs seem 50/50

loomithar m

[copper vapor]

Hello, do you guys macro the prism trinket or not ?

[left ledge]

Better not to

As there’s some cases in which you hold

[vale pine]

best would be not to, but if its your only on use its okay-ish

[turbid edge]

with shadow tech, can i coup 2x in a row? is that fine?

[vale pine]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[left ledge]

If you mean coup - refund - coup

Yes

[turbid edge]

yes thats what i mean

[left ledge]

That’s the ideal situation

You don’t want to have to build

[mossy spear]

new to sub... what does that refer to?

[left ledge]

Replicating Shadows

[vale pine]

rs = replicating shadows

[left ledge]

It’s a rupture amp and spread

[mossy spear]

thx

[copper vapor]

if im understanding the trinket correctly it should have 9 stacks every flag/sb combo ?

so i should be casting the trinket every two flags ?

[halcyon pendant]

depends on situation, on ST only every flag is about the same. Amp phase or aoe, 18 stacks is better

[left ledge]

^

[copper vapor]

alright

[vale pine]

you use it every time with 90 sec cooldowns on st pmuch

[turbid edge]

am i missing anything else important to track?

• shadow dance duration so i know when i can shadowstrike
• faded has to be on target before i coup
• escalating blade stacks before i hit 4
• dance and symbols charges so i know when to stop bursting and wait for blades to come up
• rupture on main target outside of dance window

[lime edge]

YO may be a dumb question, but i feel like i hit like a over wet noodle when i use black powder over evis in keys. on 4+ target that is. i use my cou procs when i get them but other than that im unsure where im goofing

[vale pine]

cooldown of flagelaltion/blades

might want tot rack secret too and cold blood

this is what i track

snd is optional ofc

because you kinda have it up always

[feral knot]

SO WE BP ON 4+ TARGETS IN M+?

sry caps

[vale pine]

yes

4+

[coral zealot]

ok my tiny brain is blowing up. what's our sub m+ build? the pinned build is different from Casualaddict's build, the dungeon slice fuu talent build, and wowhead recommended m+ build

[turbid edge]

thx i have your WA pack. just wanted to make sure i was mentally paying attention to all of those things

[vale pine]

ah nice

[rustic mortar]

How much better is double on use on sub compared to antenna ? i thought iread something like double on use is 40k better then antenna ?

because the sim wont say that

sim says antenna better

[vale pine]

double on use is more flexible

single on use is better in general

so it is more on a per boss decision

e.g. dimensius and nexus king rly want you to use two on use

[left ledge]

Do not track fazed

It is useless to track

I’m assuming that’s what you mean by faded

[vale pine]

but on other fights it does not matter

for m+, there is a bit of a personal decision

[turbid edge]

yes! thats whta i meant. do i just make sure i shadowstrike or backstab the target before i coup?

[vale pine]

prisma + passive gives more burst during high prisma stacks

[left ledge]

Well you HAVE to, to proc coup

You don’t have a choice

[vale pine]

double on use gives more "on demand" decisions

[left ledge]

And sectec applies it too

[turbid edge]

oh i didnt know sectec did too! interesting

[left ledge]

You can’t proc coup without applying fazed

They’re tied

You’d have to be holding coup for fazed to fall off, but even then you’d be using sectec first in your next dance anyways

[lucid jackal]

double on use is really only a mythic thing tbqh

It lines up perfectly on saldahar

[left ledge]

So no matter what scenario you’re in, fazed is not worth tracking

[left ledge]

Yeah doesn’t help something like antenna doesn’t really work well on last 2 either

[lucid jackal]

forge on pull > 9 prism on boss > forge on platform > 18 prism on burn phase

[coral zealot]

bumping this question

[humble bison]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[left ledge]

Just run whichever one you feel comfortable with

You can run RS nado, you can run PE nado

PE no nado

They all sim within like 1-5%

[turbid edge]

are they even that different? i think there are some choices that dont make much diff and are preference. im pretty sure im just using casual's build

[lucid jackal]

Itll be slightly more aoe and st

each different build is slightly different

[left ledge]

It depends on dungeon, comp, what you like more

[vale pine]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[left ledge]

So just experiment with it

[coral zealot]

RS is so convenient, i dont think i could play without it tbh. i guess your answer is really it doesn't matter that much. thanks!

[left ledge]

Yeah I used to play RS but I switched it up

Sometimes I go back

I like having the choice

Sub has been missing it for a while

[turbid edge]

which build is higher aoe? i run with an arcane mage so our prio is pretty good already

[devout basin]

Do we backstab as our first genrator in ever SD window for DM stack?

[left ledge]

Ye

[humble bison]

ty, i was exactly looking for this, happened several times but i was checking for updates. tyvm 🙂

[hard rapids]

Is there a way to track supercharger stacks? I can't see any buffs or markings on the CP UI

[left ledge]

Without weakauras im not sure to be honest

[devout basin]

Can i also make a seperate macro bind for CB + ST for my second dance or do they share gcd - basically just on the key i would put cb anyway?

[left ledge]

With weakauras you can use charged combo points to detect them

[hard rapids]

Is there a particular WA being used for it? I've tried several WA's to see if there's any indicator for Supercharger but haven't noticed any having it

[left ledge]

Well the indicator is normally a change in colour for the combo points

For most wa

[left ledge]

Cb is off gcd

[hard rapids]

Yeah I remember that for ER, for some reason it isn't showing for Supercharger zz

[left ledge]

So you just need one normal sectec and one cb sectec

[left ledge]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[left ledge]

Try one of these packs

Take the combo points from them

They should work

[hard rapids]

tyvm ❤️

[proven plover]

I am being held hostage in a +12.. warrior tank and his mate want to give up because they failed a couple times and wont time anymore. while keyholder and his healer wife dont want to. now they are sitting not doing anything

[left ledge]

Yep

That’s abandon system for you

It fixes nothing

Just gives another way for people to be toxic lmao

[raven jackal]

How am I supposed to run netherprism + lilly? Do I lilly minis and nether majors? Do I do the reverse?

[left ledge]

You should lose io for depleting idk

[left ledge]

Treat Lilly like a shit forge

[coral zealot]

how does not running RS work? you just have to apply a lot more ruptures i guess right?

[turbid edge]

do you think it's reasonable to remove these from fuu's WA pack since theyre not really on cd often and dont need the clutter?

• shroud
• shiv
• cb (always up for 2nd sec tech anyway)
• rupture (if i have another tracker that counts how many targets have rupture)

[left ledge]

So forge prism forge prism

Replace forge

[raven jackal]

Only on majors then

[vale pine]

it is def. an annoying bug

[left ledge]

Sure why not

Customize how you like

[raven jackal]

So only on majors, and waste half the castable lillies?

[left ledge]

Idk what waste half the castable lillies means

Why are you wasting them

[lucid jackal]

Lily + Prism is bad

[raven jackal]

It's a 1:30 cd but at that rate I'd be casting it every 3 mins

[lucid jackal]

Forge + Prism is the only good 2x on use

If u have lily + prism go get another trinket

[left ledge]

Yeah it’s not great

But if that’s all you have

[lucid jackal]

Pacemaker, antenna, DH trinket

[left ledge]

You treat it like a shit forge

There’s also that dawn breaker trinket

It’s not bad

[lucid jackal]

Is there a way to sim the entropy ring btw

[left ledge]

Forgot its name

[lucid jackal]

Does anybody have a paste of all the stat combos

[raven jackal]

Signet of priory

[left ledge]

Not signet

[warm marlin]

i just threw a bunch into top gear

[left ledge]

The passive one from dawn

Some crystal

[raven jackal]

Oh dawn, not priory

Yeah the proc

I thought procs were bad

[lucid jackal]

where do u even get the IDs tho

[ripe flame]

Empowering crystal?

[warm marlin]

search for entropy then the + thing lets you pick a bunch of different types

[left ledge]

Yeah

[warm marlin]

once you have it in there

[left ledge]

That one is decent

[lucid jackal]

Oh shit

I see it yeah

Sick

[graceful crown]

with netherprism do i let it build up max stacks b4 sending it or just with cds al lthe time

[left ledge]

Send off cd unless there’s an amp or mass aoe (forge amp, big momma etc)

[left ledge]

With your cds ofc

Not off cd as in every 20 sec

[graceful crown]

i gotcha

its what i already do

i took 4 days off and now i feel like i fell down a trashbin

[solemn creek]

In m+.. always 18 stack

And make your tank pull.more

By that i mean... shuriken storm an extra pack (by mistake)

[mighty citrus]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[mighty citrus]

shouldnt the cb bug be fixed when swapping speccs?

[limber relic]

"Whooops i tab targeted"

[solemn creek]

Whoopsss.. anyways they are dead

[limber relic]

Perma tricks makes things like that so nice

Tank too slow? I got you

[solemn creek]

I played a bit of ele.. always ripping during cd

[grave delta]

Do I take helm for biggest uppie + crest save or neck because I'll never see it again

[karmic harbor]

if i have coup, i use it and im at full cp still, do i still storm?

[solemn creek]

Did u sim crafted neck vs that neck?

[limber relic]

I feel like helm and worst case you craft a neck

[acoustic matrix]

I'd take neck since you mythic raid and are likely to get a head and catalyze it soon

[limber relic]

^ That makes sense too...That helms from the first boss too isnt it?

[grave delta]

yeah but first boss drops 707 helm while I get it at 714 from vault which is +30 gilded

[solemn creek]

Is the dagger not good for u?

[grave delta]

I have crafted mh already

smol uppy

[solemn creek]

Dagger was like huge for me even withh mh crafted

But it wasnt thst one

It was a crit mastery one

[grave delta]

ye this one is haste vers

yucky

[solemn creek]

Ya.. thats why

Only dagger that will replace the one i got is the saladbar onr

And... thats not gonna be something we will farm before a while.. unless dimensius gets nerfed to oblivion

[brave moth]

Wound Poison working on Nexus King ?

[glossy turtle]

when do we start holding dance and symbols? was it when there is 40 sec left of flag cd?

[acoustic matrix]

More like 30

[sullen hare]

40-45 I'd send

[glossy turtle]

yeah I still send at 40. but just hold at anything below

[acoustic matrix]

The thing is if you hold at 40 you lose a use at 1 minute mark

[sullen hare]

Yeah you don't wanna mess up your next double

[glossy turtle]

but idk if that is the right thing to do, or im just leaving dmg on the table

[acoustic matrix]

yeah you are

[glossy turtle]

so 30 still works?

[acoustic matrix]

if no down time yeah

[sullen hare]

30 is cutting it close

[acoustic matrix]

yeah but that's how it comes back in your first cooldown window

consistently get it back at around 1 minute

[wide maple]

whats best gem for cloack?

[sullen hare]

[glossy turtle]

that also works for Secret tech?

or can I only send evisc

[acoustic matrix]

secret tech you can even send at 20-25 if you have an extra charge of symbol

without shadow dance tho

[glossy turtle]

okay thanks 🙂

[chrome lake]

how would i go about double on use in m+? got a myth lily and a hero forge

[sullen hare]

That one I definitely do

[solemn creek]

U wouldnt

[gloomy slate]

is it ok to macro symbols into dance or is that troll

[vivid dome]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[spark ridge]

If I don’t have secret technique or shadow dance for shadow blades can I just eviscerate instead?

[solemn sonnet]

its not really worth using blades if you dont have anything for it

[feral knot]

How do I use tea in m+?

st only?

[cursive vapor]

You macro it to shadow dance

[feral knot]

huge

[hybrid compass]

Do you guys spam bp on first Big pulls in gambit or u spam evis onto giant?

[feral knot]

How does my dmg profile look? Streets 9

[nocturne oriole]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[nocturne oriole]

there was a dance, tea and backstab on 2nd press macro...it looked nice, but I can't imagine that's a recommendation?

[karmic harbor]

if i have coup, i use it and im at full cp still, do i still storm?

[acoustic matrix]

That's troll cause symbol is often use solo

[steep cave]

Regarding Unyielding netherprism. Do you still want to use it at pull with shadow blades? Or wait untill u got stacks

[cursive vapor]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[cursive vapor]

if it fits you, sure use it

[gleaming leaf]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[lime edge]

Mh do we spread rupture as sub? Or just on prio target?

[acoustic matrix]

you spread on gather

[late bobcat]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[acoustic matrix]

when adds are packed you spread outside of cooldowns

if they'll live for a while

[lime edge]

By gather you mean when we got the pack and after our burst?

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah when your tank is running around grouping the pack on pull

Make sure you have tricks tho cause that can get you aggro

[lime edge]

Ok Thanks? In regard to bp, is there a reason why i end up doing less dmg with it compared to ev spam?

[serene notch]

Are your guys sims starting to favor more crit as well? I don’t think I ever got to a state last season where it wanted more crit over vers/mastery

[acoustic matrix]

You mean at 4+ targets ?

[steel horizon]

stats are so high now that the DR's are becoming noticeable

crit has been highest weighted for me as well since i have so much mas and vers

[west tide]

guys if u are progging araz still just put the adds behind the pools to walk in its free

but ur sub dam will suffer

[serene notch]

It’s interesting cause last season I had been higher % of mastery at various points and it still wanted more or vers, that’s why it stood out to me.

[queen chasm]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[obtuse shard]

guys i think sub rogue is the best spec for taz hm am I right

[west tide]

yes

[empty plume]

I have decided that private logging is cringe and should not be allowed for RWF

[acoustic matrix]

ye it's tanky af

[obtuse shard]

stacking prism prepull and 1 burst, boss almost dead

[twilit phoenix]

yeah you can prestack everything

and just blow out the boss' back

[west tide]

how do i prestack i dont have the trinket yet

[obtuse shard]

just auto attack dummy

[empty plume]

180sec of attacking stuff

[west tide]

hopefully it drops from m fract this week

[spark ridge]

are you still in nurfed?

[raven jackal]

Even the LFR version is beating pretty much every heroic trinket

[west tide]

nooo not for a long while!!

i have my own guild called slurp on malganis!

long time bro!

[lime edge]

Yes correct

[spark ridge]

yeah been a while haha

[marble turtle]

for progress its better HC Prism + MM Antena or HC Prism + MM Forge?

[keen dome]

that's a good and funny name, 10/10

[west tide]

you gamin wow? big feral time

[spark ridge]

ya i havent done any pushing this season yet, almost got to 4k last season

[lucid jackal]

Prism forge is good on last two, otherwise it's only decent

[west tide]

yoo big time

me doin my silly lil 10s

[steep raven]

What's the damage difference between using prism every 3m and every 1.5m?

[spark ridge]

thats me this season so far xD im gonna do some keys with sense tomorrow if u remember him

[empty plume]

resisting urge to fangirl

cumshot in seven probably goated league clip all time

[plush roost]

Feral discords that way buddy! -->

Hehe jk

[west tide]

ya ofc i remember thats the prot goat 🐐 get that io

[spark ridge]

sorry

[queen kraken]

any trick to avoid the respec into no cold blood bug?

i think my raid is going insane

😂

[west tide]

never swap

[alpine wraith]

stop betraying us playing assa

blizz is castigating you curs !

[vale pine]

you get higher stack counts

so more burst

it is very interessting on fights with damage amp phases

or on big pulls in m+

[crystal bone]

u could also just send it every 90s no matter what and its still better than other trinkets

[onyx ivy]

apologies if this is asked frequently, are we using netherprism on pull with shadow blades in raid? I just got it and learning sub

[dense mountain]

it wont have any stacks on pull so you can use it but it wont really do anything. its fine to leave in your macro while learning

[onyx ivy]

yeah that's what I was thinking, thank you 🙂

[spark ridge]

why do i sometimes get full combo points back after using a finisher

bug ?

[hazy breach]

Shadowcraft

A talent

[crystal bone]

a bug he says

[spark ridge]

idk man this spec has so many random procs

least intuitive spec ive tried

[crystal bone]

its definitely a weird spec

[vivid cobalt]

Have you tried outlaw lol

[crystal bone]

weird/unique

[vale pine]

#subtlety message

i explained it the other day

can just jump to that marker

[limber relic]

Im so bad at outlaw...i have no idea why that shit doesn't click. I think i focus too much on RTB buffs isntead of just vibing

[steep raven]

Yeah, I understand that it could be better with amps. But let's say on Fractulus, is there much of a difference when you use prism?

[vivid cobalt]

I haven’t been able to get the hang of outlaw again since it came out in legion

[regal rose]

should i spend my gilded on upgrading my 2nd crafted piece with gilded crest or upgrade my mythic tier hands i got from vault n other peices

[vivid cobalt]

It was amazing that first legion season tho

[quiet smelt]

i love outlaw just swapped sub cuz i seen how good it was doing

[gleaming leaf]

when i upload my m+ logs as sub i'm always between 40 to 70% on key% dps performance comparaison by key level, how can I use my logs to figure out what i am doing wrong?

[warm marlin]

Any ideas on when exhilarating execution becomes better than ephemeral bond

wondering if maybe it’s the play on soul hunters

Big cleave value

[ornate lake]

How do we use SecTech outside of Flag/Blades? Just send it on CD?

[hybrid compass]

sorry to ask again but could anyone tell me what should I do? it could also be like pulls with the arakara dr mobs, like 1st pull floodgate? I saw arakara logs of someone from the top and he has like bp 2nd damage, but I feel like I should focus the big mob and rarely use bp on these pulls

[cursive vapor]

only cause of this bug we can play sub decent

[tender frost]

Looks like it did 117k for Perkz on council, most logs seems like they take about 1m-ish hps over the fight without it so EE seems pretty strong

[karmic harbor]

how would I use lily + netherprism?

[tender frost]

overshield is always sick too ofc

[hazy breach]

Use prism at max stacks, otherwise use lily

With blades that is

[karmic harbor]

ok ty

[icy knot]

Why should i use shurikanstorm between coup de grace and not shadowstrike?

[tender frost]

just send prism at 18 every 3 min?

yee

[hazy breach]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[shrewd lantern]

lowk doesnt sound like a good time because you'd be sitting on lily

[tender frost]

doesn't waste your unseen blade buff that you get from sectec

[shrewd lantern]

during prism uses

[hazy breach]

Ye its not ideal but its fine

[bleak night]

i have a myth lily and a champ track prism and it outsims everything else i have by like 1%

so gg

[icy knot]

thank you

[karmic harbor]

oh so if i coup and have max cp i dont need to ss

tyty

[hazy breach]

Yes you wouldnt use a builder at full cp

[ripe flame]

its joever

[umbral fulcrum]

does it make any significant difference to pot with dance+symbols vs shadow blades?

[viral oar]

same goes for araz + prism?

[hazy breach]

Yesnt

You just rotate them

[karmic harbor]

yeah makes sense

[terse wolf]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[native zodiac]

😎

ready for dimensius

[karmic harbor]

does this macro mess up netherprism

[shrewd lantern]

What the helly

splits?

[native zodiac]

nah

[vale pine]

if you only use prism, its fine

but it depends on the boss

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[native zodiac]

p sure we are prob one of the last guilds in the top 80 that doesnt do splits

[shrewd lantern]

i think im only 708, 709 if i get another myth piece to send gildeds on

[umbral fulcrum]

2x tazavesh hm kills too prob

[vale pine]

splits are a deasease even non top 100 guilds do

[umbral fulcrum]

2 more myth track pieces

[native zodiac]

sadly yeah

[hazy breach]

Couldve done 3 hardmodes

[shrewd lantern]

i think even if i got 3 hm pieces

[native zodiac]

i did 3 hardmodes but kinda dogshit loot from it

[hazy breach]

But pretty much all loot in there is dogshit

[shrewd lantern]

i wouldnt have the crests to reach that

[umbral fulcrum]

still good for free 6/6 hero track upgrades

[native zodiac]

hardmode with 3 classes with prism is fun though, we killed postman in 30secs

[hazy breach]

The only good loot is the catalyst pieces

[native zodiac]

he didnt even get to do packages

[shrewd lantern]

wait do hm pieces start at

[native zodiac]

707

[shrewd lantern]

6/6 hero

[ripe flame]

707

[shrewd lantern]

i assume they would be 5/6

yeah

[vale pine]

hardmode is not worth it

[hazy breach]

1/6 myth

[vale pine]

takes too long

unless you do the cheese

[hazy breach]

Or well, the one from the last chest

Otherwise its just like a +10

[shrewd lantern]

put down a turnip and build up prism

during a bathroom break pre dungeon

[hazy breach]

Just never send prism on trash

[shrewd lantern]

its a joke to get an 18 stack

before the first pack

[hazy breach]

Only took us like 50min this time

[native zodiac]

same

[shrewd lantern]

ngl even if i do streets

[native zodiac]

you dont even lust bosses besides dragon tbh

[shrewd lantern]

i dont often send prism on trash

because i dont trust mfs

to not die on bosses

[gaunt bluff]

is there a command for prism usage?

i got it for the first time

[native zodiac]

depends on the fights tbh

[olive silo]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[gaunt bluff]

im only interested in M+

i guess and forgeweaver mythic

[vale pine]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[vale pine]

but its just "with blades" if you only use it as your on use

[native zodiac]

like fuu said it depends if you are going with 1 on use or 2

[wet robin]

Is there any WA solution to displaying a count of Shadow dance casts between shadow blades?

Asking for a friend that clearly can’t handle counting to 2.

[vale pine]

no

because its not static

[wet robin]

Yeah I figured ok

[vale pine]

basically

you start with 3 stacks

get one stack every 25 secs

use 2 every major cooldowns, but 1-2 between

[gaunt bluff]

i mean pins say u should use an equip and an use trinket but would u use lily and netherprism together?

sim tells me its basically almost the same

but idk its not as much thinking if i go one passive

also first pull if i just do opener i send netherprism on any stacks?

[icy knot]

but i have one question how am i doing this when i dont have shadowblades active because often my shurikanstorm does not make enough combopoints and so my coup de grace runs out

[lucid jackal]

U don't storm outside of blades

[icy knot]

but what do i do outside of blades?

shadowstrike?

[lucid jackal]

Yes

[lucid jackal]

Only double on use worth using is forge and prism

And it's mainly because of mythic timers

[icy knot]

ohh so there its not important that you was one unseen blade right?

[vale pine]

i would not

only double on use i would play is prism + forge

[patent sedge]

is there any good sub rogue guides for 11.2

i just want to learn how to paly the new trickster build

not to familiar with trickster and what the main thigns i need to know are to do

[vale pine]

!guide any of them

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[gaunt bluff]

what about the first pull question

do i just send prism on any stacks and then wait for it to build up?

[shrewd lantern]

you'd send forge

or just accept you dont have a trinket

for the first pull

[gaunt bluff]

i don't have forge

[stuck linden]

What kind of DPS is sub pushing in 10-12s? 8mil?

[wet robin]

You’d use Lily

[gaunt bluff]

assuming im on prism and pacemaker

no double on use

[wet robin]

Ah ok

[shrewd lantern]

yeah you just use nothing on pull

[mystic bough]

I looted antenna from heroic raid, but... the orbs, my ptsd; does it work similar/the same as the transmitter orb?

As in do you need to collect the orbs or do they just float (to you)

[shrewd lantern]

Too many variables like dungeon and comp

[patent sedge]

i did check the wowhead guide

is there any like weakauars or anything to track fazed blade

or the unseen blade

[lucid jackal]

Well as you experienced spamming storm doesnt generate enough combo points

It's only done in blades because blades gives you full cp

[icy knot]

ahh ok thank you

[lucid jackal]

They float towards you but some will miss if you are paying literally 0 attention to it

U can Sim the miss chance between 20-30%

[mystic bough]

kk thanks

[patent sedge]

is the target pretty much always fazed?

because i was wodnering if i have to track it to make sure i get the 5 stacks of flawless form from coup de grace

theres no reall in game indicator atleast that ive noticed to tell if the target is fazed from unseen blade

if im doing the rotation correctly can i just assume the target is always fazed??

[vale pine]

we wait for it to get stacks

[vale pine]

yes kina

*kinda

[patent sedge]

kk cool

ive been mainly playing assass this xpack but i feel like sub will be better for mythic raiding

especially on bosses that haave adds

beacuse of the damage loss

from having adds around

[onyx dawn]

!log

[patent sedge]

so i just want to make sure i can play sub adequately

for Raiding

[shrewd lantern]

that's only true for fatebound

[lucid jackal]

Sub is op

[patent sedge]

yeah FB is the main spec

right now

for assass

[spice lichen]

you'll pump if you just use cds correctly

[leaden sail]

what is the best use of roten for m+? do we still backstab in dance for macabre?

[lucid jackal]

Storm to spread fw

[shrewd lantern]

yeah more because it just does more on large counts

ermm short counts

[hazy breach]

The storm inbetween coups is enough to spread fw

And you generally dont want to storm twice in dance

[shrewd lantern]

I mean killing bosses at a wf level and random ce guild level

are basically 2 different bosses

so who knows what'll be "best" 2-3 months from now.

[spice lichen]

op is crazy just does well with 1.5 min dmg amps

[lucid jackal]

Cope

[frigid light]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[lucid jackal]

Best melee dps on the hard encounters of the raid

[west tide]

real shit

[leaden sail]

I'm 4/8m rn and past 3rd boss some of those fights just make sin unplayable or just perform a lot worse that sub

[shrewd lantern]

i mean soulhunters it doesnt matter what you play

rogue sucks regardless

[west tide]

sub betta on soul hunters

cause its easier to play on that boss

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah but you still lose to any ranged

with 2 braincells

[west tide]

we up

[gaunt bluff]

doesnt outlaw pump on soul hunters

theoretically

[leaden sail]

sub and outlaw are pumping on hunters

[hazy breach]

Outlaw should be the best spec

[lucid jackal]

Yeah it's chill yeah

[spice lichen]

i hadn't seen any discorse on melee during soul hunters and I just thought i fell off after killing it last night and bot fragging

[lucid jackal]

Nobody plays it or has it prepped

[hazy breach]

But outlaw is cursed

[west tide]

ya but u need mythic weapon basically

[hazy breach]

So

[lyric cargo]

I might be dum dum but I was out and I just came back recently I got my hands on both prism and forge how are we using them together ? ty for little help m+ especially

[west tide]

i aint gonna play the law with a heroic weapon man

[lucid jackal]

Forge then prism

[gaunt bluff]

i got myth outlaw weap in vault but myth socket head was too good

[hazy breach]

Rotate them on blades

[gaunt bluff]

i just wanted to play outlaw sometimes

[west tide]

same

hate that i cant craft both

[spice lichen]

just make a second rogue

[west tide]

hell no

[hazy breach]

Cant get outlaw weapon in vault if you never select outlaw as loot spec

[gaunt bluff]

i mean i selected it with the intent of getting it

but i somehow got something else thats good

[west tide]

hmm maybe next week.. naw naw

i need prism

[shrewd lantern]

be the 6th person to kill soulhunters as outlaw

[spice lichen]

used my free boost on a 2nd rogue to play outlaw its definitely the move

[west tide]

no thanks

[misty brook]

What are general thoughts on netherprism w/ antenna vs forge w/ antenna?

[steel jolt]

The outlaw weapons in raid are likely not contested. Just wait for one of those

[west tide]

noo cause my 2nd rogue would be as scuffed

[quiet smelt]

if im in a window and i have both coup and secret tech with supercharger does coup take prio still ?

[west tide]

the difference between my mythic loot rogue no otl weapon week 1 and otl weapon week 1 no m loot is prob the same man

[lucid jackal]

Double on use it good, very good on some of these raid encounters

[shrewd lantern]

it's pretty much the usual 2 for outlaw

zac and lok

[quiet smelt]

thnaks

[lyric cargo]

do u have 2 separate keybinds on both of them or just macro one and other leave as separate ?

[acoustic matrix]

Logging hurts my fps and my input latency a ton, you guys know if it's a hard drive cap or CPU ?

[shrewd lantern]

@west tide sir do we have a case of overtime police

[vale pine]

secret > coup > regular finisher

[spice matrix]

Slurp would never OT

[west tide]

nooo never

[shrewd lantern]

august 18th plexus

[west tide]

we do 1 monday first week for fun thats about it

[shrewd lantern]

[west tide]

weve always done that cause passion is the highest week 1 max fun

[steel horizon]

do a macro with

/use forge
/use prism

in that order

[lyric cargo]

ty

[warm marlin]

[steel horizon]

it used forge if its up and uses prism when forge is on cd essentially

[west tide]

what is it

[warm marlin]

forget i said anything

different slurp

[west tide]

ahhh

yes

there is slurp and slurp squad

im in a 2 day guild

slurp squad is like 5 days or somethin idk

[lyric cargo]

also could we macro it to blades or its not recommended ?

[spice matrix]

@west tide what spec are you playing for Soul Hunters?

[west tide]

sub probably

think its as good and easier so

[spice matrix]

agreed best of luck

[shrewd lantern]

i like how blizz made the frac boots identical stat wise to the soulhunter boots

kind of really solidifies that they're just worse

[gaunt bluff]

lot of versa mast items this season

tbh

[fiery garnet]

Yo guys please, I know this is a huge question rn and everyone keeps asking, but can you please confirm that for:

RAID - Antenna + Prism
M+ Prism + Any on use?
Or is it better to go Forge Prism in Raid? Talking Mythic prog

[shrewd lantern]

I mean you have to send into crit too

due to dr

[hazy breach]

Either prism+forge or prism+antenna

[steel horizon]

Yea add blades, your racial, dmg pot, etc.

[fiery garnet]

Is antenna better in this scenario tho?

[hazy breach]

Depends

[fiery garnet]

Im kinda split on for which trinket to go

[hazy breach]

If there was a clear answer i would give it to you

[fiery garnet]

that is fair 😄

[void hound]

still no prism AHHHHHHHHHH

[swift tinsel]

SoonTM

[mental briar]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cursive vapor]

timed first +10 this season, 4p is niceü

[lyric cargo]

I played bleed assa but oh man its pain to play on bosses went to sub after one dung xd

[steel horizon]

Im a prism+ forge user because im like last on prio list for any antenna lol

It slaps though. Big dopamine every 90 seconds lol

[mental briar]

!cbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[vale pine]

last 2 fights in raid its double on use, outside of that best to just go with your preference

[lyric cargo]

Do we stack Mast>Vers and let crit and haste at the lowest ? or is crit valuable now ?

[hazy breach]

Dont get haste

[crystal atlas]

There anything major i should try and watch out for when learning sub?

Like big no nos

[hazy breach]

Do the burst sequence correctly, and then do it again 90s later

Thats 85% of sub

And if you cant do it 90s later, you used too much inbetween

[fiery garnet]

I see, however it is Prism/forge always, right? People kept telling me lily but I doubt it with how much of a mastery we already have in base stat

[hazy breach]

Never lily

Unless you dont have prism

[vale pine]

lily is good if you don't have forge/prism

so its the best you can get from non raid content

but if you have prism

you either run prism + passive

[fiery garnet]

Im already sitting on HC and im prio in the group for myth if it drops so I am never touching Lilly i guess

[vale pine]

or prism + forge

[fiery garnet]

Yea I thought so, cheers for the confirmation lads

[vale pine]

prism + passive has the advantage of stronger burst windows (due to agi from the passive trinket), prism + forge has the advantage of more flexibility in your burst which is only rly needed on the last 2 fights of the rid

[paper flower]

If I have coup ready before sending my cds, how’s the cast sequence look like? Do I send the first two coup before/after the 1st dance? before/after first sectech?

[mental briar]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[mental briar]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[hollow spear]

Wax is back!

(or was it ever gone?)

[lucid jackal]

It was never gone

[hollow spear]

0.4% is quite something imo

[dusk stone]

sectec coup coup

you dont get flawless from coup if you dont have fazed on target your couping

[west tide]

how do i sim the wax

[swift tinsel]

You want the cdr from the two coups after Sectech for more guaranteed ub hits from disorienting strikes

[karmic harbor]

messer making sin obsolete?

[terse wolf]

gotta see dem logs

[iron fjord]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[terse wolf]

hey, out of curiosity do you have Persian heritage? asking this cuz of the discord profile name

[vale pine]

i assume you mean big cooldowns

but you would basically use flagellation, then go into cooldowns

secret > coup

[karmic harbor]

my grandmothers ukrainian

[white siren]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[terse wolf]

hm so that name isnt unique for only Persians, interesting. Thanks

[alpine wraith]

big chad

also today got forge and boots even if they are nm big

[terse wolf]

sir is that a 6 set

[jagged rover]

I was considering sending my gloves to 723 but running sims shows 710 helm and legs with a 720 crafted neck is more dps for me (assuming I don't get something better from next vault), so might be sitting on the gilded this week

[alpine wraith]

?

[loud tiger]

stats ?

[alpine wraith]

there is not even 6 tier pieces that is loom shoulders

[loud tiger]

have like 15 % crit

how much we need ?

[lucid jackal]

Whatever u get

[hazy breach]

As long as you dont have haste its fine

[terse wolf]

joking around

[loud tiger]

is it ok if i have 15 crit and like 25 vers ?