subtlety

[lilac stag]

As Stealthi said hitting it mid global is quite common

[opal basalt]

Interesting

[clever holly]

When I have dance sod and sec tec ready do I supercharge sec tec and first coup or do I dance coup sod sec tec and then coup so the big hit gets supercharged?

[blissful yacht]

guys, i saw some good macro for shadow dance with backstab....it was like sequence macro where first push is dance, second backstab....how do i do it?

[hazy breach]

Supercharge sectech always

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[tepid trellis]

call me out all u want

[hazy breach]

Up until undermine blades didnt work on sectech

[opal basalt]

I seee

[limpid sage]

#showtooltip
/castsequence [stance:2] reset=stance:2 Backstab, null
/cast [stance:0] Shadow Dance

Is good as well

[blissful yacht]

but i should first cast SD or no?

[limpid sage]

Can only press backstab once in dance (if you forget if you pressed or not)

[limpid sage]

You press it twice in succession yes

[blissful yacht]

thanks

[limpid sage]

Or SD->finisher->backstab if you’re already full cp

Just be mindful that the stance trigger resets 8 seconds in, so if you press the macro with The First Dance talented you’re able to use Backstab again for some reason

[kindred dock]

Do you guys play full ST on Nexusking or like fuu's cleave build?

[summer crest]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[summer crest]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[summer crest]

how do we fix the CB not usable bug from swapping spec? Is it really just relogging?

[tepid trellis]

ye

[summer crest]

my god

ty

[hazy breach]

!cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.
  You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <

[half dragon]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hXjJvDvwx9LLpu8oyNsGAo
can someone explain to me why it doesnt use cb at 1.43 instead of 1.55? surely the symbols there is in pandemic so its fine to recast it for supercharged

or is it because it doesnt have any symbols charges left maybe

[scarlet radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[vagrant fulcrum]

Yes, basically need to do my job without extra stuff that I’m going to mess up for tonight, busy so I can’t practice for long on dummies before

Raid

[hazy breach]

No idea ill look into it, but you should be using cb there along with symbols

[frigid prawn]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[terse dirge]

The shuriken storm between CDG casts is that just for during shadow blades or for every dance even outside of our Big CDs?

[tepid trellis]

during blades

or you can do it in regular dances on AoE

[grave zenith]

can i ask some noob questions?

[tepid trellis]

no questions are banned apart from asking if bananas are okay on pizza

so ask away

[runic trail]

because the answer is obviously yes

[spice lichen]

pickles + doritos + iced honey bun on a pizza hits ngl

[runic trail]

and no further discussion is needed

I agree stealthi

[hazy breach]

Bro just cant handle how avant garde swedes are about their pizza toppings

[half dragon]

what if you hollow out a banana and treat it as if it were a pizza dough?

[tepid trellis]

may zeus's judgement be swift

[upbeat sorrel]

[hazy breach]

fwiw stealthi im actually on your side here against the swedes, i much prefer bougie wood oven type pizzas than the standard swedish ones

[upbeat sorrel]

yall ever have korean pizza

shit kinda goes hard ngl

[uneven fern]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[short radish]

banana burrito

[runic trail]

I cannot speak because I have cheeseless pizzas

[tepid trellis]

weak

[terse dirge]

Does the sim not model this correctly or something? I noticed when I sim my character it still just uses SS in between CDG.

[upbeat sorrel]

sim needs to learn 2 play clearly

[half dragon]

blades runs out there

[spice lichen]

in dance tho

[half dragon]

before the shadowstrike

[hazy breach]

Well it doesnt have blades

[half dragon]

he said dance on aoe

[hazy breach]

So it doesnt do the thing youre supposed to only do in blades

[half dragon]

blades in general

[spice lichen]

oh I don't think I can read maybe I have been reading dance this whole time

[hazy breach]

In sims its neutral to do it inbetween coups on aoe

[spice lichen]

whoopsies

[terse dirge]

Sorry bad screenshot.

[limpid sage]

banana, curry and peanuts is very common to be an option at swedish pizzerias for some reason

[hazy breach]

So i havent added it

[limpid sage]

think it's called afrikana

[tepid trellis]

and they should be publicly humiliated for it

[spice lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/game-of-thrones-shame-ringing-bell-walk-of-shame-gif-13316112511080767236

[upbeat sorrel]

this is making me reconsider my trip to ikea today

[tepid trellis]

there it procs shadowcraft

[runic trail]

nah just get the meatballs, the meatballs are good

[tepid trellis]

so it doesent need to storm

[half dragon]

thats because u get full combopoints refund

[terse dirge]

Okay I see.

[hazy breach]

Also i found out why, The check to make sure its used on the second sectech and not the first one is checking for the second flagellation buff, but with the coups sectech is ready when the previous one has 1s left.

[terse dirge]

Sorry for the dumb questions.

[upbeat sorrel]

but how can i support a business from a nation that supports banana pizza

[tepid trellis]

they aint dumb

u learned something

[half dragon]

so what would be the proper play there, cb?

[hazy breach]

The fix doesnt seem to impact numbers much on ST, small gain on aoe

[hazy breach]

Yes

[half dragon]

alright, thank you for checking 🙂

[hollow spear]

Is banana pizza considered a dessert?

[haughty mural]

I would guess so ?

[void ocean]

bin it.

[haughty mural]

But I have no clue - we don’t do that here

[grizzled sage]

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1409335589672718346

yo guys can someone take a look at those logs 😬

[bronze pendant]

hello guys

question as sub spec for raid

versa is main stat or mastery

[hazy breach]

Not haste

As long as you dont get haste it doesnt matter much

[bronze pendant]

Versa or mastery

thats my question which is more important than the other

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message

[slate lantern]

Whichever your sims tells you is better

[limpid sage]

anyone know if blizz has said anything about fixing armory?

I miss using murlok

[fallow nimbus]

My rl wants me to use cds on pillars in 2nd intermission at forgeweaver

[hazy breach]

💀

Idk thats probably not that bad, the amp is really short anyway

As youll be pushing it into last phase like halfway into it and he cancels it

[lilac stag]

sounds like a send a single dance.

Used my cds boss

🫡

[hazy breach]

I actually beat one of my tanks!

On pillar damage

[lilac stag]

Are you out of feral gaming?

[hazy breach]

Ye cat is only for splits

[lilac stag]

Raid tuning cracks me up. We ran N on the weekend for trinkets and tier. It’s insane how fast everything falls over already.

[runic trail]

Yeah, did it on wednesday and bosses were dead in 2 minutes.

[marble thistle]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[undone mesa]

hello all!
anyone can give me some tips about soulbinder Naazindhri Mythic?

im very lost abou timers and bursts

[storm maple]

for a quick overview u can check out lorrgs: https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/soulbinder-naazindhri

[shell ice]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[tepid trellis]

Soulbinder
1x
0:22
2x
2:00
3x
4:34
full send
the 1x-2x-3x etc is number of dances between the actual timers

timers being you actual cooldowns

[silk flower]

how is sub to play in mythic plus keys? wanted to give them a try but wasn't sure what to expect with either assa or sub - was asking in the assa channel about their spec and received mixed feedback

[uncut bloom]

It's very good

[silk flower]

ohhh nice

I did hear that assa is simpler though, given that im kinda a beginner it may be easier but maybe sub will be more interesting to try and get good at

[vale pine]

perfect

[undone mesa]

ok ty very much!

[tribal blade]

i would say base sin is easier, but you have to play with deathstalker which is the worst hero tree in the game to play with

base sub is harder, but our hero tree is fun to play with

[silk flower]

oh, right I was looking at assa - you're talking about the mark that you have to constanttly track. I could see that actually becoming quite difficult to manage in keys

[bitter needle]

Finding your death mark target after tabbing for maximized rupture 💀

[hazy breach]

Ye partly why mouseovers are a better option

You wont lose your mark

[tribal blade]

yeah mouseover rupture is kinda mandatory as sin

[hazy breach]

Its a bit silly it works like that, but what can you do

[tribal blade]

or else you're gonna have a really hard time finding your marked target in mass aoe

[bitter needle]

True that, or zugzug dont tab and let carnage do the work

[shut prism]

do you macro tea? in m+

[hazy breach]

Yes macro it to dance

[tribal blade]

on higher keys you have to refresh ruptures because packs live longer than rupture durations

but yeah on lower keys you can kinda just rely on IC

[shut prism]

ok ty

[warm marlin]

My plater mod uses a bright pink exclusively for my dsm target

[bitter needle]

Everyday struggles

[tepid trellis]

just play sub

[warm marlin]

Makes it pretty easy to find

[tepid trellis]

problem solved

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[fringe shuttle]

is our trinket preference antenna + netherprism for raid? I see a lot of people running ritual forge + netherprism

[hazy breach]

Either of those combos

[undone mesa]

pls give it to us hahahaa

[tribal blade]

i have been having a hard time playing sub again in keys though because it's rough to play sub with ~200ms

[fringe shuttle]

minor diff between them?

[hazy breach]

Netherprism is by far the best trinket

[tribal blade]

sin is a lot easier to play with high ms

[tepid trellis]

did you see the eco dome picture i sent earlier?

[tribal blade]

the one with all the nimble?

[tepid trellis]

and the actual overall dmg

[tribal blade]

oh yeah you were hard gapping the other dps haha

[tepid trellis]

imagine if it was an actual key

[hazy breach]

Generally if the fight is short (<4 min) double on-use is better, if you need to delay your cds a bit (so for example on the soulbinder the pad on adds) then passive+antenna is better

[tribal blade]

iirc something like 4mil more than the other 2

[tepid trellis]

and i could have cds for almost every pull

sub would go hard

[warm marlin]

it’s custom edited version of another one, just use the spellid for dsm and set a color you like

[tribal blade]

yeah sub actually feels a lot better once you get to higher keys

[fringe shuttle]

cool, thanks!

[tribal blade]

because it's easier to use cds

[hazy breach]

And mythic dimensius specifically antenna seems kinda unplayable on in last phase

[hazy breach]

So thats why rwf were not using it

[fringe shuttle]

makes sense

[tribal blade]

craziness

[tepid trellis]

fwiw divine is an mdi competitor

[tribal blade]

also yes fuck hitboxes

[hazy breach]

Dimensius p1 hitbox

[warm marlin]

Divine is a gamer

[hazy breach]

[crystal bone]

sham + warr buff is so nasty for us

[tribal blade]

he beat the ele /cry

poor ele

[tepid trellis]

divine is mad good at the game

that ele has 0set

tierless

[tribal blade]

ahh i see

[hazy breach]

Sham is a bit overrated for sub, its only like 3%ish in sims on aoe, closer to 5% (which is what warrior is) on pure ST

[tepid trellis]

it just feels

g ood

to ahve sham

[hazy breach]

Ye

[tribal blade]

it feels so much better

i can instantly feel not having skyfury

[crystal bone]

^

[tribal blade]

it's annoying

[tepid trellis]

we had trash on every boss in that run

and just all big pulls

[tribal blade]

haha sub and nimble pad

[tepid trellis]

just holding down W

[gaunt bluff]

does someone have a mythic loomithar sub vod?

i cant find one on youtube

[warm marlin]

was doing some 12s for 3k yesterday and 18stack prism just solo kills entire pack in blades

kind of funny

[keen dome]

lol, yeah. 18 prism is so good

[hazy breach]

I helped a guildie with weeklies yesterday, he (the tank) died twice right as i popped 18+blades so we wiped

[keen dome]

I sometimes forget to use it in the open world and then some rare mob just doesn't get to exist anymore.

[hazy breach]

I was not a happy camper

[keen dome]

tragic

[tribal blade]

yeah losing prism to other people messing up is really rough

[gaunt bluff]

or do u guys know any streamer i can look up the twitch of

everyone is playing assa

[tepid trellis]

most people swap between the two specs in raid

Assa for single target fights

sub for the cleave fights

[warm marlin]

loom also has the damage amp below 50% so the better st execute spec is a lot better

[gaunt bluff]

yea but i really hate playing assa and never did before anyway

outside of one fucked up key

[hazy breach]

One of my raiders complained i was doing no damage to the adds on loom as assa

[tepid trellis]

lol

[crystal bone]

i was progging myth loom last night, noticed it only had 24 sub parses

24 chads

[warm marlin]

ye got the same thing

[hazy breach]

So the next pull i hardswapped to them everytime just to see how much it would be

[tepid trellis]

all i did to them was rupture snipe

[hazy breach]

And it was still pathetic

[warm marlin]

i swapped sub for a pull and just barely beat the tanks

huge stuff

[tepid trellis]

tbf

prot warrior

if played right

will beat dps

execute cleave

is not okay

on them

[warm marlin]

I was also assigned to the pylon soak opposite the tangles

[tepid trellis]

same

and for some reason

we had a team that refused to soak

so i had to backup

all the time

so had to cloak my own debuff off

and go soak it -.-.

[random hare]

u see

@tepid trellis

i have

lets say 13 stacks

do i refresh rupture

or do i eviscerate

[crystal bone]

if u shadowstep the inner tangle, can u hit both tangles with nimble?

[random hare]

in this situation

any gamer can answer this

im just curious on how valuable rupture is

whether its shadow rupture or not

pls answer if its a sim ans or feelcrafting

[warm marlin]

unless rupture is literally falling off next global im eviscerating

you snapshot symbols as well

[random hare]

on rupture?

[limpid sage]

nothing better than sending 18 stack prism on a huge pull in priory (without footmen)

[warm marlin]

sorry snapshot bad word

you just get the eviscerate in symbols too

can refresh rupture later

[random hare]

im lost abit here

because i have flawless form

13 stacks

[gaunt bluff]

so i assume there is just no sub gamers for this boss

[random hare]

whats more important to press here

[gaunt bluff]

[random hare]

eviscerate or refresh rupture

[gaunt bluff]

fuck it i ball

[random hare]

@vale pine

need ur help here

[tepid trellis]

are you on a boss or in AoE?

[random hare]

boss

[tepid trellis]

Id rupture if it isnt up

[random hare]

even with flawless forms upo

lets say 15/20/25stacks

[tepid trellis]

not like an evis outside of dance does much

[warm marlin]

ye whats the time left on rupture here

[random hare]

u still rupture on all those?

[lone sun]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[random hare]

0

[warm marlin]

rupture ya

[random hare]

and what about flag then

like

if i have few sec left of flag

well thats omega rare but

if i do lose rupture

[clever delta]

On the soulbinder i hold cds only for big adds right??

[random hare]

do i still rupture or does flag actually increase rupture dmg too

not just evisc

[clever delta]

And is there any tech fir forge?

[tepid trellis]

flag gives mastery

[clever delta]

For

[tepid trellis]

so it buffs all finishers

[native zodiac]

Yes

[warm marlin]

1. should refresh rupture either right before flag or do flag rupture so it lasts for entire cds to avoid having to refresh
2. dance/symbols/flag all dynamically buff rupture so you want it up

[native zodiac]

0:22, 2mins, and whenever the other big spawn is

[modest river]

are we unbinding SB and Netherprism for specific damage amps?

[clever delta]

I figure that out after kill that I griefed myself

[vale pine]

whats the question

[native zodiac]

Dw i did the same

[clever delta]

Did you kill forge yet

[native zodiac]

Yeah

Im gonna be on nexus tonight

[clever delta]

Nice

Fuck the assa bosses tbh

[native zodiac]

Got a mythic prism too, big pump

[clever delta]

What did you play on council

[native zodiac]

Im sending sub

Still have to kill it tonight

[clever delta]

I see

[native zodiac]

Outlaw is defo the best for it but i just dont have the gear for it

Sub/assa i doubt makes a diff

[tepid trellis]

its not really a dps race

on it anyway

[native zodiac]

Also true

[clever delta]

Forge is like first adds, 2min adds, amp and than we hold for next amp?

[native zodiac]

Yup

[tepid trellis]

last amp will be cut short

boss has like 0 hp

[clever delta]

Forge prism forge and prism

[mighty citrus]

still need to find a strat as my team pulls the boss away instead of t he ghost at 0:30

so camp ramp up flag and stuff properly

[tepid trellis]

flag the ghost

just be on that as you start your ramp and it gets dragged

[mighty citrus]

but adds are almost gone there no?

[tepid trellis]

oh yeah

well then start your rmap on the boss

[hazy breach]

Most send flag at like 22s

[tepid trellis]

then step your teammate

then rip it

[clever delta]

I saw alternative strategy where they did not hold for second amp and than send last adds

[hazy breach]

So before the adds even spawn

[tepid trellis]

yeh most try and time their 2nd sectech

for the add spawns

[clever delta]

Yeah you hit them with second dance I think

[mighty citrus]

mhh this leads to the question, does targetswapping has a downside? i mean if i have max stacks of flag it should be w/e?

[hazy breach]

Its whatever anyway

[tepid trellis]

dont need to hit your flag target

[hazy breach]

You dont need to hit the target with flag up

[tepid trellis]

for it to do something

[mighty citrus]

ohhh

i see

[torn storm]

It's like deathstalkers mark if it was good

[mighty citrus]

then ghost it is i think

[paper glen]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[lilac stag]

fully loaded prism on bosses in keys is quite comical

[paper glen]

Do u have macro to when u pres sd your first global is backstab?

[lilac stag]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[paper glen]

so double press my key right ?

[swift tinsel]

yep

[brisk onyx]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[lilac stag]

was my link not good enough?

[brisk onyx]

I just opened DC

dont see yours

[lilac stag]

i feel so unseen

[sacred yarrow]

[mighty citrus]

do we know how much of a dps loss it is to bind prism to blades and not safe it for later stages on raidbosses?

i mean in terms of stacks what are we talking here

[lilac stag]

its neutral

however

[mighty citrus]

oh

[lilac stag]

if you have amp, priority adds or big adds it's a loss

you save for 3 mins for those

idk if that makes sense, it's early

[mighty citrus]

i understand what you mean

its just iam old and i tend to forget that i have to extra press it

[lilac stag]

and that's kinda when the forge dbl on use shenanigans come into play

just macro and forget

i started playing bandits guile with my prism WA lol

[swift tinsel]

lol that's what I'm gonna do when I get one

[lilac stag]

differnt sounds on 9 and 18

[olive canyon]

Finisher prio in dance is Sectec>coup>Bp>evis on 4+ adds?

[hazy breach]

Bp on 4 or more yes

[swift tinsel]

prayge for hero track in vault or from reclear

[tepid trellis]

im getting mythic tonight

trust

[fallen crescent]

Yo this might actually sound cool. Maybe i should get something like that

[tepid trellis]

scath u wanted the coup warning bar i made or?

[hazy breach]

We got some dumb caster weapon and trinkets instead

Smh my head

[lilac stag]

pls

[olive canyon]

And Shuriken to not proc unseen blade if we have the tier bonus up? would we use Shuriken as that CP builder with the proc up in dance and out of dance as well?

[swift tinsel]

only seen one normal prism so far

and one hero forge

[hazy breach]

Specifically when you have blades and the 4p yes

[swift tinsel]

won't hit mythic for another couple weeks

[tepid trellis]

!WA:2!9D1tVTXXvCtZI6aI2gz5yvxLGKTuTgugkcoej(GauDiPOSuQSKWsPiNGaqo7Ud5or7oZ0zMvImf5qvlqDpwEO3AAl7T2IIaDnOxeqp0Bli69cOpc6tqFZml)NSDwajoZBFV38(ZV59EBUnNpE(G5dE(Jgi5iXXhrcuH39cZ69A3wIvplNORD1wp25gMNZrbFEIuHdEkQ7nNSHqVPONL1OFW5iQFitSpJqvE1QV7b1DhA0QltHuegnh)2ZS)PSaC1khEWEcKVEV8rUsfsOkuLqjQ73pG10hohwClp7VD)o)6cfANqnC7GseOMy6jRTnWDPLl4aprmFuKJVQRZ6osCu7vf4oaVRIe(1mQOgJQWDvgMjTDOmLHBviMAOPFSI)l)YXe(20eWjWVHvmnW870wseskRIezMZApbRQLrAxumEgRgcnyQY1Cma)hHrhxbCr5QGqwQLgPULN2(NrUzCeUasfLmwpjyfNI(SKOaJmTj0aNJQSwXvCMvN6hbwLiOVOlb(5QxZiNE7yEIjudOAuoWNrBt6mM8y(eJ0YuX3jN2KSZQHm2X4Gz9nnnj2prG1aIsx32aVTbwzopWhhHzk1CfNt10M4StL0ZmH1AmkEBeVumQBPPDRrQyIoGO0YtJEgzWR7Oej4Xbs9FVe473gMWKC0uLAezXJqcbHjapQ4(OiuaHQxUvcGeneDzDsWM3kiyPsVAdmcYe)CkPtiS3O6IncrXiJOpf1XWpOy4ap2qIrn)UHiHey1qmyUJoKI1pb8nrXV86wPnpI9vLkVIZHWvsJtvQipc1d4plC1MjCiR4qbxYHqDiCerilnXnx2jGnoucqGmvVUrI16it8kv0rBvfxETeohlkT8S4Ija4zaF(tfH3hPaxHUgylXivjTMNjxoBc76Lzk4bxEiYWcNPeKoDWc5BFFr2YNFxHKJJI2oyX79D)xF9LjsCtKNKj8016AnSdMIfe)gHSt3JEP08tnglkGDk1vBhYcdcWEjTBFqpW32Q(o7V5H7CwaycAmt53B1YgDkzjcFS2xc5Zp5q2cJImh0LqCcFcCzObOks3HnRvPXbnBCyTA1B0OVwafuZ94wvvWX03Nf7HurSoUgzguZS3zhwh(T18oJvpr37dx9iDDBSF9D25CJvzD9wNLTqwykJvJiAnCmBgB)m92e9lgmHjplGPQME6d7dWoBSTW9tFJ2cqcTOT6RtlMi2I85A0l2JfjDyTDmW90ftFtbes3Jg1Rv6sUAElN(EPpmTCb(T1nBobFGvR6W1)4gdiamPPplIj(O8WZLykYlc)ebCfd80Wl5cwhbwkBymZh8w34M9rusSjR8O0V)MPlvLYO4lWijUHckd1rfERHJYBn1HzbuTIrdKNP5rNEtxVAmIqbztxp9NDR0hN(HPvGLZFDk2EZhanBGQD8sBRVi2g5J)SAiPIq7aW6p7WTF3j7E3gAboZdjQzCPTE8)7DENpeAJ)IlYd4njsPnuC40db8j5gajABDq5NUq6sdHTEaOPJGLqdYiaxHWwcpFr(pw3pSP5F2Rwn5nvKyCtUa7tKGIY3Fmlf)PC(p6LiGDHRwUGlnVsFn2mur6RXVJHckb6)crwFt94QvGTxz1cPloWq8xn0onYNy9MCxyEVESfs7EPV2aHEgeSoMwD392To)N8QS9iChKFVMTJymriF5xfBb9aWiXVPkeGjHWn6EPljGaKMv(8w)ieb3ZFwMbnWqBcKRFMsH7F17Y1yTtr9YKCgxj)mQBK)XDEvwwmlOPo72AO5LNYebhjq8ZokBHnYCcKFaeFl(B)Q0JDxUHJTttjQ9o8GD2E36xynXMCDE6IT3D36UnZgbCm)niFb(nZslJIc85MYxSG1C5YL)KZ9aRdlAkbzYNUuFn2ZqjBiZMqREuzaGFrgJ(JL9YmkJ8OrQch0bZVDJFrciQZMjrrohfsu4HzVMzdUp)2dbC1XnfJMz9cZ2S5HZDLz3uxzmf(u2RMHa8u)AOaMpogQBOJ94(vu7JHIgqCX82mMt34CZ2itTI1VA2kmYfFWk34MzqiGTRMvXYflw(d4Zn(EqMwADP9ecH)tbDLFGz)eqM1cgfzS7YMFpN1CIjcba0TNhWenW4eLRSXg870jRE4Ec9)nXNbBTN72F6E7EqLDgM5zwpO8onEA1igk4KbMqekYui10hga0b62a(l4jHkwr4dMZZYWcUXjrkYc3l3)5RBv1Ws6VVGTh3SI2Y1Sx)6QAuIEXLM6xv1wTUUE6VLphiyLSVwX8XlHMs9wt8TUr)rLildHNC57pvPMHqWfaA7XnFzYd(dqBecLNO0DG2al9dDntbMhapTrGnZFdZWxox8noWWxXirphOsC5JX9435Lm8rvDVl(cMzK0m6OFNt2l9SPZ723emIiuCOUP9ogQHTtxYJMe7HfP)P3)1t)JHP)1HWxIrItIDm1(s)lNnAw10Vk)veD)ckk6JHwqGV83VEqHqdhyN81CJw3SeclLHP)oVsJN5)(FE8h5YKE2bPUF6G0)C6F73896BAzkjbyx3TFYwh4fI1Jy(dVYEbDtb4pA951OMB967EUj1SLHN1fziLZQOemFIQNlkIhIYx9lyS4CUgwdhOy(Nyn57L7F2TijGpxnwc35uKGcOghWiZ0kjiatD3T(hx39826dgAbJuOBL(vV)RB)i3AJVcaFsKwR4WQAhi8C2eSC6VBGUdnXKXlCoHAl5P)QKRM05Bul1)9DVl8XX5EXf5Nx69bRw(HRwE(t(Vp7)d

[glacial kraken]

jumpscare

[tepid trellis]

just barely not long enough for it to compress it

unlucky

[limpid sage]

What does it do?

[olive canyon]

ah ok so more so when we have blades, and in dance as opposed to if those conditions exist out of dance

[vale pine]

got you covered

[lilac stag]

assuming thats what you've attached it to or?

[clever delta]

I died on loom with prism stacks

Not bad, tanks refuse to pull boss out of shit and got cornered

[tepid trellis]

yes

[vivid cobalt]

you know whats annoying is resetting bosses before pull clears prism stacks

[tepid trellis]

can just remove the custom

[mossy zodiac]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[hazy breach]

Pulling the boss resets them too

So it doesnt matter

[vivid cobalt]

oh

lol

is that true in m+ too or just raid

[hazy breach]

It resets when key starts and when you pull a raid boss

Same as most other things

[lilac stag]

pretty green

[surreal knoll]

If you play double on use (forge + prism) and the boss fight is only like 4 minutes do you just send the second SB with no trinket, to preserve stacks, or is that a waste?

[hazy breach]

On specifically 4 minutes you would hold flag+blades for 2 minutes and use it with forge then use prism at 3:30

Since delaying isnt losing you any casts

[strange chasm]

In keys you guys are using prism at what 8-10 stacks?

[lilac stag]

forge+prism spreadsheet gaming

[hazy breach]

You can but using it at 18 is more fun

[surreal knoll]

Ahhh ok, so hold for 30 seconds just to get forge again and prism last, thanks!

[tepid trellis]

NO

[lilac stag]

depends on the key / timings. nuking boss with 18 is very useful

[strange chasm]

So forge prism really is just op huh

[hazy breach]

Not really

Antenna is very strong too

The double on-use is good aswell, but its definitely getting overhyped relative to the other alternative

[lilac stag]

got a sac, have to mess with it. I dont feel like I get a ton of extra umph from forge, but it's also pug keys so having one more timing to worry about isn't ideal to me

[weary spruce]

Are we supposed to have 2 different macros for SD or can we just use the 2nd one

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea

---

/cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[tepid trellis]

just a visual representation of when the last hit of coup is compared to you being released from the global cooldown

[hazy breach]

Especially for aoe/keys, our regular dances are pretty strong so giving up like 15% damage on them by using a double on-use feels kinda bad

[tepid trellis]

as to not get caught by the late refund

[hazy breach]

In ST more of our damage is tied to cds

[limpid sage]

Oh damn I was thinking of doing this but never got to it. Sick ty

[little epoch]

got almost title with hekili so idk it felt good tbh one can play like this and another can play however he/ she wants

[queen kraken]

i just did another key and does it seem like some coups are refunding quicker or am i trippin

[tepid trellis]

damn diggin up

[tepid trellis]

coup does 3 hits

all 3 of them can proc it

so

[queen kraken]

ahhh

me stupido

even with removed custom options :-x

but thats prolly just my ui amirite

[lilac stag]

i think it's tied to his ace widgets. trying to figure out where it's calling it now

[queen kraken]

man i love it so much that u got just one vod on youtube on that one boss i gotta prep for 😂

[tepid trellis]

just happened to be the only boss i recorded

[thick field]

so we use CB with the second sectech in the opener/ with big cds.. but just send it on the first sectech when just using symbles and shadow dance?

[queen kraken]

it helped me alot on undermine

[thick field]

or only use CB with the big cds?

[tepid trellis]

u got rid of this yeh?

[hazy breach]

Only big cds

[queen kraken]

ahhh

i removed the custom options

😂

[stoic lagoon]

i have a coldblood/tech macro and i noticed on wowhead it says "When macroing Cold Blood and Secret Technique, make sure to put it on your stealth bar!", why is stealth bar needed?

[hazy breach]

Otherwise it wont be up for the big cds

[thick field]

so CB sits off cd for 45 seconds at a time?

[umbral fulcrum]

that's what ive seen

you'd have to use it exactly on cd

[hazy breach]

You can get better procs sometimes so it would sit like 43-47 secs yes

[umbral fulcrum]

if you drift at all its cooked

[thick field]

interesting okay thank you

[queen kraken]

cuz your stealhtbar = dance bar and you dont wanna use it outside

[celest needle]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[stoic lagoon]

so we only use tech inside of dance?

sorry i'm incredibly new to rogue xD

[hazy breach]

Generally yes

[queen kraken]

afaik you should just use it with symbols and dance

[limpid sage]

Almost only inside dance

[lilac stag]

just did. tried to comment it out first and wasnt happy

[stoic lagoon]

ah ok that's good to know

[queen kraken]

if misplayed or in rare occasions it might happen that u can toss one without

[limpid sage]

You’ll learn when you can use it outside

[queen kraken]

but thats giga rare

and never with cb

[lilac stag]

yeah fully removing fixed it

[tepid trellis]

yeh it just whats used to snap it into place so it auto adjusts to the lenght of my wa bar

[hazy breach]

Theres some situations where you can send sectech outside dance, BUT if you screw it up its really really bad and the upside is very very small

So unless youre insanely familiar with sub just dont bother with it

[stoic lagoon]

ah ok thanks ^^

also, i was watching a m+ video of sub and on the guy's bars, there was one button (no macro text) that was backstab out of dance/stealth but when he entered dance it turned into shadowstrike

anyone know what that is?

[half dragon]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[tepid trellis]

probably a stance macro for backstab/shadowstrike

or on his regular bar is backstab

and his stealth bar its strike

[stoic lagoon]

ah yeah ofcourse

all same buttons except for that one, just confused me that's my bad

[queen kraken]

is there some kind of concept or need to delay coups so that we get a huge bunch of flawless stacks in cds? just checkin stealthis vod and his 25 flawless peak 😂

[tepid trellis]

you delay coup for 20 sec for flag

[hazy breach]

So if coup is up and your flag has 13s cd left as an example

You literally just backstab

[queen kraken]

and then? u flag => coup => st => coup?

or do u double coup before flag

[hazy breach]

Exact same sequence as any other burst

Flag > rupture > dance+symbols > backstab > blades+sectech >

[queen kraken]

kk

tyvm

[crystal bone]

if u already have a rupture rolling, do u flag > evis?

or just refresh rupture

[queen kraken]

i saw that change as well, didnt we use blades after sectech recently cuz of the delayed impact?

[hazy breach]

Just refresh rupture

So it doesnt run out during your burst

[crystal bone]

kk thats what ive been doin

[hazy breach]

Well before s2 blades didnt work on sectech

[raw wadi]

@hazy breach if its possible to send second sectech during first dance window (opener)... should we send it?

[hazy breach]

In s2 they fixed it, so we can use blades before sectech

[hazy breach]

Yes

Send sectech asap

[raw wadi]

its really tight isnt it?

[swift tinsel]

a bit yeah

[exotic zephyr]

who is a good youtuber to watch to help me out with sub

im used to whispyr but he doesnt make sub

[keen dome]

Shindig is pretty good

[swift tinsel]

kinda gotta get a bit lucky with sht/coups to fit it more comfortably

[exotic zephyr]

did sub change at all since 5 months ago?

[limpid sage]

Depends on how lucky you are

[exotic zephyr]

cz thats when his last guide was

[keen dome]

He has an 11.2 changes guide too

[swift tinsel]

nothings really changed since then

[tepid trellis]

very minor stuff

[keen dome]

You could just watch both

[swift tinsel]

so it should still be pretty relevant

[exotic zephyr]

aight cool thanks

[sour forum]

Sooo on paper i could macro forge trinket first and prism 2nd and i dont have to think about anything no? Since it has 2 min cd

[hazy breach]

If you never end up delaying your cds for 30s yes

[tepid trellis]

not really, you wont always be cd'ing every 90 sec

you have times where you need to hold

[sour forum]

Oh ye thats a factor :/

[crystal bone]

u should symbols again for the 2nd sectec in TFD, right?

[tepid trellis]

yes

[hazy breach]

Yes sectech should always be supercharged

[limpid sage]

If he has the habit of pressing trinket before blades it should work

[sour forum]

I dont wanna make 2 new binds send help

[limpid sage]

Nvm misunderstood

[hazy breach]

Can have one trinket macroed with blades and one other bind

Since if you press your other bind with a trinket you cant use the trinket inside the blades macro

[tepid trellis]

or just have both trinket sep places

but add blades to both of them

[hazy breach]

can do that too

[vivid cobalt]

im barely not able to fit a second secret tech in my FD what am i fucking up

[hazy breach]

You dont always get that

[vivid cobalt]

oh

[hazy breach]

Happens more often with shaman, BL or having coups prepped

Its not a requirement

[lavish steppe]

is there a bug with tricks of the trade or am i just buggin?

[hazy breach]

You just send sectech when its ready

[vivid cobalt]

do you still send cold blood on the secont secret tech even if its in a new dance

[hazy breach]

Yes

[lavish steppe]

i cast it and it doest give the hour buff

[hazy breach]

You need to trigger it'

Tricks is a 30s buff that when you attack starts a 6 second buff that redirects threat

Trickster makes the 6 second buff into 60 minutes

[crystal bone]

eleem, for taz hardmode, would u play CB for every boss?

[queen kraken]

ohh i thought we use blades later cuz it still applies and we get like 1 global more blades 😅 maybe ive screwed my whole dmg for quite some time now

[hazy breach]

Its fine to use it like 0.5-0.9s after sectech too

A lot still do because of muscle memory

But you dont need to, its neutral in sims to use it before

And using it before is way easier

Because the initial hit of sectech is about the same as the extra global of blades youd get

[crystal bone]

u might also lose out on a global

[tacit void]

does the dmg breakdown look good? i only started playing sub yesterday

[crystal bone]

doing mechanics or whatever

[rocky ocean]

for how long do I hold on araz?

[tepid trellis]

flurry waay to low

[tacit void]

692 ilvl on a +9 floodgate

[tepid trellis]

thats mine from a +10 eco dome

[dark minnow]

Looks like too much BP spam

[warm marlin]

flurry very low, ss very low, storm suspiciously high

[lilac stag]

maybe not enough dance usage

[hazy breach]

You are right, but its hilarious how 2.4% is insanely high for storm

[tacit void]

hmm should i not be using storm as much?

[hazy breach]

In dance you should strike

[warm marlin]

banger spell

[swift tinsel]

bro if it did damge

[tepid trellis]

i remember when storm was top dmg in m+

[swift tinsel]

[warm marlin]

blades is also very low

[tacit void]

i might have auto piloted and used storm during dance instead

is that it?

[swift tinsel]

yeah you don't wanna do that

[tacit void]

im still practicing sub so ill take any criticism xd

[crystal bone]

strike does good dam

and good prio

[swift tinsel]

and procs unseen blade

which fuels more of the rotation

[crystal bone]

yea, which means more coups

more cdr

more cd's

[worldly remnant]

would you storm in dance with rotten in aoe?

[tacit void]

oh yeah i have a question about coupe

its always over bp regardless of target count right?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[tacit void]

i still dont know what it does exactly but i just press it

[hazy breach]

Big damage and big buff

[crystal bone]

its an eviserate on crack

[tacit void]

when i was learning from the wowhead guide it just says press coupe so i press coupe

[hazy breach]

Very wise

[crystal bone]

push glowy button

[hazy breach]

[tacit void]

can never go wrong with that

thanks for the tips everyone

[crystal bone]

the only time i dont push coup is if im about to enter a dance window

then i push coup in the dance instead

[tacit void]

what would u spend cps on

refresh rupture?

[hazy breach]

Or nothing

If flag is close

[crystal bone]

spreading ruptures is one option

but if u have sectec and coup ready

in single target, sectec first then coup i believe

in aoe i think its coup then sectec then 2nd coup?

[turbid apex]

Can someone explain me why Салатикок play rotten and CB in m+

[tepid trellis]

he prefers it

[crystal bone]

idk eleem can correct me there

[tepid trellis]

CB is more boss dmg

and Rotten is a QoL on AoE

[hazy breach]

Generally just sectech first

cdr from coup too important

[tacit void]

im always doing secret first idk about the optimizations or if i should change anything

[tepid trellis]

if you wanna 100% fw on full AoE

[crystal bone]

yea just sectec first

[tacit void]

yes sir

[crystal bone]

then spend ur coups

[pearl copper]

Can someone explain what is the buff that stacks for??

[hazy breach]

Shadow techniques

[turbid apex]

If you play rotten doing some death symbol + dance > bs > sectech > fok is valid?

For macabre stack + fw

[pearl copper]

How do they work? Read the tooltip and is confusing

[hazy breach]

When you auto attack you get stacks

[crystal bone]

ur not alone there

[hazy breach]

When you use a builder you get more cp based on how many stacks you have

And then during symbols if you have 7 or more stacks up when you press a finisher you get all 7 cp immediately so you can back to back finisher

[limpid sage]

Lets summon fuu to explain ShT again

[pearl copper]

So if I have 5 stacks and I use secret tech I will get 5 cb right after?

[hazy breach]

No

[tepid trellis]

no

[covert storm]

if u have coup up going into cds, do u sectech storm coup storm coup to not waste escalating stacks

[hazy breach]

You dont want to double storm no

[tepid trellis]

you need 7 stacks when you press a finisher during symbols for it to refund anything

[covert storm]

so u just take the l on the eb i guess

[pearl copper]

Only when on symbols is when I get some if i have 7+?

[hazy breach]

Ideally you should get one of them refunded

So you dont haveto take the L

But yes if you dont you just tank it

[tepid trellis]

thats when a finisher can refund them yes

other than it its entirely passive and builders consume stacks

to give more combo points

[swift tinsel]

realz please add 4 stacks to eb cap ong fr fr

[tepid trellis]

aint happenin

[swift tinsel]

ye I know

had people harpin all ptr for it

[hazy breach]

It just looks complicated but in practice its very straight forward

[swift tinsel]

shouting into the abyss

[keen dome]

Poison toggle first

[hazy breach]

Shadowcraft refund is the complicated bit

[lavish rose]

are ppl switching to sub in m+ right now with bugs? i cant really tell how bad they are

[crystal bone]

in general is it better to ignore pooling sht stacks and just keep cdr rolling in a boss fight?

[lavish rose]

assa bugs i mean

[tepid trellis]

autos give stacks
builder spend stacks
stacks = combo points

thats the ultra tldr

[lavish rose]

my assas sims way higher but i cant really tell if its better

[swift tinsel]

you'll pool sht going into flag sometimes

if your cdr is set for it

[crystal bone]

yea if i know i have enough dances

then i pool

[hazy breach]

Some are, but really sub is just good regardless

[swift tinsel]

yeah I'm getting invited to keys way easier as sub and I'm lovin it

[tepid trellis]

Assa is still better in the keys assa were better in before

anyway

[lavish rose]

i see thanks

i played sub for everything last season so i might try it out in m+ again

thought it would be fun to try sin tho

[hazy breach]

Ye the bugs doesnt really change that much

Sub is bugged as hell too

[lavish rose]

wait what

how

[kindred seal]

if coup up and dance up in 15~sec do you hold or send both coup outside of dance?

[swift tinsel]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[hazy breach]

the only time you hold coup is for flag

[crystal bone]

🐛

[hazy breach]

Otherwise you just send

[kindred seal]

good thx

[lavish rose]

is there a window for holding coup like time up to flag

like 30 secs?

[hazy breach]

20

[lavish rose]

ty

[tepid trellis]

thats my reason for living when the people that reroll away from assa cuz of bugs, realize that sub is even more bugged

[keen dome]

[lavish rose]

nahhhh

fuck this class man

[tepid trellis]

its like a sweet desert

[keen dome]

They merely adopted the bugginess.

[tepid trellis]

ong

[keen dome]

We were born in it

[rotund rock]

any idea why ppl running season2 build still? is it still better for some keys i dont see any top sub rogues running the tea no cb build

[hazy breach]

People just play different shit

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/klaus-mikaelson-ssh-tvd-gif-12444428

[swift tinsel]

if you ignore DS entirely like Blizz is there's still almost 20 sub bugs

[lilac stag]

maybe we need a HOLY FUCK WE'RE BUGGED Whispyr video

[rotund rock]

i mean surely ppl that play 12 hrs a day would hear about a better build right

[swift tinsel]

inc 3 hour sub bug video

[tepid trellis]

time to tell shindig to make one

ong

cuz i wont xD

[lilac stag]

[tepid trellis]

the two builds are so close it jsut comes down to personal pref

the tldr for all of is

sub talents all suck

so doesent fucking matter what you play

[hazy breach]

Tea more aoe, CB more ST

[rotund rock]

i mean having the extra energy is nice

[hazy breach]

High key men like the ST more

And ye tea makes it smoother

[rotund rock]

with rotten you storm in dance to apply weakness right

[hazy breach]

No

You just do the storm inbetween coups

[rotund rock]

i swear i heard u did that

[tepid trellis]

you "shouldnt"

do it

[hazy breach]

Yes before, but now unseen blade is way stronger

With tier

So not worth

[tepid trellis]

i still do it

[rotund rock]

lol

yea makes sense

[hazy breach]

Idk you dont need to when you have coups

[tepid trellis]

i like the 100% fw on massive pulls

[hazy breach]

Since youre gonna be storming for that anyway

[lilac stag]

BIG weakness finder

[swift tinsel]

I need to kill the muscle memory of strike sectech storm bp

[tepid trellis]

i keep proccin craft on them

[rotund rock]

bro my coups always back to back no builder should i reroll?

[tepid trellis]

we are not the same eleem

[hazy breach]

Well ye if you have 5 sht when you sectech you can just storm

[lilac stag]

I also enjoy proccing FW on everything it hits

[hazy breach]

But you dont want to storm twice

is the main thing

[rotund rock]

so storm even at full cp b4 2nd coup?

[tepid trellis]

time to whip out the shiv

[hazy breach]

No dont storm at full

[lilac stag]

but I also enjoy being able to play sub in keys and not sit in LFG for a hour

[tepid trellis]

no

[swift tinsel]

shiving for danse inc

[lilac stag]

toss

[alpine wraith]

shuriken toss for the learned

[rotund rock]

so if shadow techniques or whetever procs just send it back to back

[swift tinsel]

shuriken toss my beloved

[rotund rock]

like in main cd window

[swift tinsel]

you only storm if you don't get a refund

otherwise there's no point and you're wasting cp

with blades up*

[orchid rampart]

I’m messing around with sub is it normal to burst high and than drop let’s say I burst to 6Mil but drop to 1.7-2M (700ilvl) am I miss managing CD’s?

[rotund rock]

bro i might just go full 1 button assistant off that bro this shit too much smoke

[hazy breach]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[swift tinsel]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[swift tinsel]

dang coffee sip

[orchid rampart]

Ok so that out of burst window feeling sluggish and nothing much to do is normal

[swift tinsel]

yep

the lows justify the highs

[hazy breach]

Literally just do the opener listed in the guides every 90s and you'll be playing sub almost at like 90% efficiency

[lilac stag]

just play assa lol

[rotund rock]

guys im sorry i was trolling

ill admit it

[swift tinsel]

the pacing of sub isn't for everyone if you wanna gogogo

[fathom adder]

i am unsure how to use coupe outside of dance in aoe situations. Do you just keep it for the next dance in that case? or just whatever as long as it cleaves trough nimble?

[swift tinsel]

send coup

big button even in aoe

[orchid rampart]

But Outlaw is GOGOGOGOX2

[tepid trellis]

you just rip it

[fathom adder]

ty

[tepid trellis]

as long as fazed is on the target

[hazy breach]

Which it is going to be

Since you just procced it

[fathom adder]

https://tenor.com/view/321-count-down-let-it-rip-beyblade-top-gif-14605942

[tepid trellis]

he tap targeted to a new mob

u underestimate him

[plush roost]

Highkey this whole class is just play for sec tec cdr

[tepid trellis]

tab*

[plush roost]

2 coup go pewpew

[swift tinsel]

cloud cover gamer

spread dat fazed to the world

[plush roost]

Wtb smokebomb

[empty plume]

forgive me, wall of text.

is there some bug related to shadowcraft cp refund timing and the gcd and coup and the 4p tierset?
watching imexile rwf dimensius kill and there's a moment in the opener that I can't find an explanation for:

• he uses coup, with 5 stacks of Shadow Techniques, 5 cp stored currently (all cds running)
• he does not get a cp refund (because you'd need 7 stacks Shadow Techniques to get the refund)
• he continues mashing his coup button for the second coup from 4p tierset, no other inputs that I can see
• he gains 2 stacks of shadow techniques (total 7 now), does not use a builder, the 7 stacks disappear and become combo points, and he uses the second coup.

like he got the cp refunded from the first coup... super late
end result is coup -> coup even though he had only 5 stacks on the first cast
definitely no builder in between, or he would have stacks of Shadow Techniques left over and not burn all 7

[tepid trellis]

yes coup can give delayed refunds

its a 3 part hit

at 0 then 0.3-4 and 0.9

and all of them can refund it

[empty plume]

ok ty for explaining

[plush roost]

The worst delayed refunds are the ones where youre st 9 sht but the refund never hit so u wait a half sec and it still doesnt hit and now youre scared to use a builder so u dont and then you never sht refund and you lost a global

[swift tinsel]

storm last second of distract bomb

[plush roost]

Any truers?

[swift tinsel]

oh wait nvm it triples the cd

[tepid trellis]

its why he has a WA bar show up under his buffs, that shows when the last hit of coup lands so he can prepare if he gets a late refund or not

[empty plume]

I see that now, wow

got his ST stacks at 0.1 on the last hit of coup

[plain dust]

does sub need restealths as much as assa?

[swift tinsel]

nah

[empty plume]

no

[random hare]

needs 0 restealths

[plain dust]

ok, just didn't know when i was tanking if i had to think about them, ty

[proven canopy]

im new to the sub rogue world, what talents do i use in m+?

[swift tinsel]

the only thing to really consider for sub as a tank is pulling around sub's cooldowns

[empty plume]

now i need a fuckin coup wa brb

does secret tech do the same on the delayed hits or nah

[tepid trellis]

no

[swift tinsel]

coup is coded as 3 eviscerates so they each have a chance to refund

sectech clone hits are from a non-player entity that creates fuckery

on a professional level

[hollow spear]

I also create fuckery on a professional level

[warm marlin]

tfd can be nice to get in m+

if you do get a restealth maybe consider not insta jumping into next pack to proc it

[plush totem]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[warm marlin]

ive noticed this means sectec clones dont benefit from the damage amp on streets menagerie boss btw

very sad

i want to see big sectec number

[swift tinsel]

lovely

[brittle tangle]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[swift tinsel]

thanks Akaari

[plush roost]

When i try to do anything with this buggy spec smh

[vivid cobalt]

kind of hope sub gets a redesign next xpac and secret tech goes away

[haughty mural]

I don’t

Just hope they do smth about all the multiple hits

We don’t need a full scale rework

[cedar iron]

I have a stupid question: if we get a refund during coup. Should we coup immediately after (4set) or still queue shuriken storm in between.

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/simpson-balthazar-boo-this-man-half-baked-gif-5478576148086671126

[lilac stag]

if they could finish the 10.1.5 one that would be great

[vivid cobalt]

idk man i feel like its been the cornerstone of our gameplay for long enough lol

[haughty mural]

What exactly

[swift tinsel]

wat.

[lilac stag]

fucking hot take monday bois

[vivid cobalt]

secret tech

[haughty mural]

True friend

[fallen crescent]

Depends if sec tech is up imo. But if u have cps for back to back coups id do it

[vivid cobalt]

maybe im just washed tho

[swift tinsel]

sectech wasn't even that good until relatively recently

[haughty mural]

What instead of sectech tho ?

[cedar iron]

idk, i always sec tec before.

[swift tinsel]

if you get a refund you coup again

you only storm if you need to build between coups in blades

[fallen crescent]

With how cdr works u will have moments when ST will come back up after first coup. U only storm if u need the cps which u dont since it got refunded

[cedar iron]

Ok, i was following the message like a good boi saying to shuriken storm to free up unseen blade but i was like "Ye but it's so quick sometimes, does not make sense"

Also i just want to thanks everyone in this discord and the search function that answered so many questions for a new rogue. Whispyr as well even if he is not happy in his latest video about bugs.

[terse dirge]

Do you guys use timers on your screen for your dances on bosses like M forgeweaver or soulbinder or just try to memorize based on when you feel you need damage?

[hazy breach]

In general its "if adds are up press dance"

If adds arent up or coming up shortly, dont press

[terse dirge]

Okay this helps alot because the timers always confuse me.

Especially coming from outlaw where we just perma send lol.

[hazy breach]

ye some people just find the timer stuff easier to digest

[high eagle]

As a new sub rogue, the one singular change I'd making dance and symbols together. Micro managing the CD differences between the two is probably the single most annoying thing to me.

[olive canyon]

melting bosses with a full stck of prism may be one of the best feelings in this game

[hazy breach]

But the gist of it is that you wanna send dance on adds

And on the damage amp (for araz)

[severe fox]

could someone explain whats the correct target count for m+ in and out of dance? i feel like i dont do enough whenever i bp

[hazy breach]

4 targets or more bp

[swift tinsel]

.

[errant nexus]

buds, reading Fuu's recommended enchants for raid/mythic+ if I want to do both, which enchant do I go with?

[spice matrix]

new member takes

[hazy breach]

Either, it doesnt really matter

Just dont enchant it with haste and youre good

[high eagle]

I like sec tech. Feels good to hit a mega big crit sec. 😂

[fallen crescent]

Current sub is the most fun i’ve had with sub. Just keep double coup in the new hero talent.

[brittle tangle]

/macros

[hazy breach]

Sectech should get a new animation

But gameplay wise its fine

[lethal yew]

How often do you symbols without dance or dance without symbols up, in between your big bursts

[swift tinsel]

massacre clone dash

ong

[fallen crescent]

Like kyveza’s lines

[swift tinsel]

but no actual clone

please god just make them cosmetic

[crystal bone]

kyvezsa animations

[fallen crescent]

Fuck it make rogue be more void

I meant sub

[hazy breach]

Yes current sub goes hard, to me the double coup is kinda whatever but i fucking love netherprism man

Being able to double it and give it to the next guy is peak

[swift tinsel]

yeah its like

[hazy breach]

the nuclear button burst

[warm marlin]

netherprism is sick

[swift tinsel]

perfect sub fantasy trinket

I yearn for one

[warm marlin]

idk double coup is cool but coup has so many wack problems with it

[swift tinsel]

SoonTM

[fallen crescent]

I got given a normal prism week 1 but i think they were trying to cuck me. Little did they know prism was op

[sick sand]

On Loomithar when do u send it?

[warm marlin]

delayed refund, longer gcd feels bad, 6 hits instead of one big one, overcapping escalating thing

[fallen crescent]

I was sending it at the 3 min mark and then should have it stack again during execute

For loom

[warm marlin]

if it was legit just a big slap eviscerate id like it more

[swift tinsel]

yeah I'm really, really hoping the multi-hit thing goes away in midnight

for coup, sectech, shadowed finishers

[fallen crescent]

I like the 3 hits the sound effect even the delayed st refunds are cool.

[swift tinsel]

creates problems for us gameplay-wise and problems for them coding-wise

you can have the animation/sfx be whatever

that can be agnostic of the damage event

like rupture is a three part attack

animation-wise

[fallen crescent]

Is there a wa That tracks when you are able to get another stack of prism? Sometimes i’m at 17 and i’m hoping i do hit the 18 before i press it.

[hazy breach]

Ye but when you go coup > coup > strike > evis > strike > coup

That double proc does feel nutty

[swift tinsel]

can probs make an aura that tracks time between stack gain

since its linear

[cedar iron]

Do you loose stacks on death (Ala spymaster) with prism?

[warm marlin]

ya but imagine the coups were just regular 1s gcd eviscerates that slapped

[swift tinsel]

just set condition to Time Since Stack Gain

[fallen crescent]

Yes but i am no wa maker or know how to start

[hazy breach]

Yes

[fallen crescent]

Yes

[hazy breach]

Ye ofc

[warm marlin]

i do like the tier set to be clear

i just think coup is a weird spell

[cedar iron]

Thank you I was going to jump off the cliff to try. Saved me 20 gold.

[swift tinsel]

its implemented oddly

fs

[high eagle]

The last time I played rogue we had nightblade (I think it was called) dot to maintain. When was that?

[swift tinsel]

legion

[alpine wraith]

and bfa

[swift tinsel]

ye

[alpine wraith]

kinda weird tbh

[lilac stag]

Turn flag into netherprism.

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/nut-gif-13730599696264544916

that would be the absolute sickest talent addition known to man

[fallen crescent]

Combine them both into one button.

[swift tinsel]

and fits sub perfectly as a cooldown

[lilac stag]

get rid of flag. We don’t need it

Blades with an actual controllable CD to go along with it is peak sub

Put power back into dance

[swift tinsel]

like unironically if they took out flag or goremaws and gave us a sub-coded netherprism talent

[terse dirge]

So yeah on the fights like soulbinder where we delay our main CDs and start with raw dance, we would dance every time adds spawn and then just send our main CDs again as soon as they come back around 2 mins?

[swift tinsel]

would be the best thing ever

super unique

[lilac stag]

mmhm

Add combo back

[swift tinsel]

lol if only

[lilac stag]

make it a choice node if need be

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[empty plume]

is this late refund from coup inconsistent? (testing on dummy + reviewing clips. pre-stacking 6 shadow techniques and I'll go to 8 immediately after coup and not get refunded. symbols active ofc)

[swift tinsel]

if you delay flag on opener you'll have it for big add wave ~2mins

[terse dirge]

Ty

[swift tinsel]

and can melt

[left ledge]

I feel like combo has potential to come back

Devs have mentioned it won’t come back

And when Blizz says something won’t happen

It usually happens

[tepid trellis]

can be very inconsistent yes

[empty plume]

dafuk man

this class sucks fr

[left ledge]

It refunds on each coup hit

[empty plume]

it does not

not always at least (unless dummy bug or some weird shit going on)

[austere summit]

Hi guys the rotation for this patch is the same of the last patch?

[hazy breach]

Actually though

[lilac stag]

its brilliant if you think about it

[left ledge]

In my experience, I’ve never seen coup NOT refund within the 1 ish second window of it’s delayed attacks if I meet the sht

[alpine wraith]

would be cool

[hallow night]

Anyone here use luxthos weak aura?

[alpine wraith]

and turn blades into touch of the magi

or even better soulcap

[covert storm]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[tepid trellis]

have seen it a few times, but quite rare

like the 7 dungeons i did today it happened twice

[left ledge]

Is it happening at the start of a dance

[latent finch]

im strugelling with cdr in m+. If i get to much cdr on dance do i just send it without sod?

[left ledge]

Like you dance sod coup

[swift tinsel]

prism and soul cap talents would be the biggest windmill-dunk from half court this games ever seen

[warm marlin]

there is def some weird jank with casting coup very shortly after or before sod

happens to me a decent amount in flag blades

[elder path]

Hi, i have some question about coup whats on my mind. So I seen that raidbots quicksim is spending coup while out of blades on whatever combopoints, is that correct? Cuz it was what i was doing and it seemed right to me, but want to be sure bc i havent seen it nowhere writed down directly on guides

[left ledge]

Because I know Shadowcraft has a weird bug where sometimes on repeat dance/symbols or if you finish too fast after sod you don’t get a refund

[left ledge]

It’s not just coup

[warm marlin]

yeah its not