hey guys, i see there's a shuriken storm during cds between two coups. Is this also true if the coups are back to back with full combo points? or only as a generator?
#subtlety
cunning turret
void needle
hey guys, i see there's a shuriken storm during cds between two coups. Is this ...
Only generate
If yoh have combo points for the second one send it
I think he tanked an ecodome for me this season actually
Its crazy how frequently you run into the same people once you start pushing
paper siren
How can I manage my energy better during downtime?
void needle
Just dont expect the same apm as during cds
Slow down take a breather, your cds and damage will come back dont worry
Save your money, dont spend it all in one place type shit
paper siren
That should help my parses? I have like 90s on heroic rn
tepid trellis
9.2 overall in a priory, not bad for the first time playing 2x on-use
tepid trellis
That should help my parses? I have like 90s on heroic rn
its just the nature of the spec
you do 0 dmg outside of dances anyway
void needle
That should help my parses? I have like 90s on heroic rn
You won't lose damage unless you let your energy cap
Keep spending just slow down to allow yourself breathing room for feints etc
vestal escarp
That should help my parses? I have like 90s on heroic rn
Bad better and doctor kill timers more
paper siren
Hmm thanks that makes more sense now
void needle
9.2 overall in a priory, not bad for the first time playing 2x on-use
I wish, I lost forge to an outlaw rogue
void needle
Idk get better gear, plan cds better. If nothing else raid bosses are predictable
Look at your logs, compare it to better players
spice lichen
Do you guys hold dances in keys the same way we do in raid?
I find it awkward, especially on packs before bosses, where it seems all 3 dps are holding cds and I’m trying to recoup dance charges and watch the pack live forever
Feels counterproductive idk
wheat edge
!wa
wicked joltBOT
tribal blade
Do you guys hold dances in keys the same way we do in raid?
if you cap on dance charges you can send a solo dance without symbols to help kill it faster
feels like ass but helps a bit
native crystal
does the trinket lily of the eternal weave drop for sub ? thanks in advance
void needle
does the trinket lily of the eternal weave drop for sub ? thanks in advance
Not for me lmao
native crystal
me neither i only get the claw 🙁
void needle
Ive also been hunting the shoulders from streets, but I've never even seen them
They intentionally reduce drop rate of sub bis items
And inflate drops for ret bis
native crystal
and is tickin sack rly that good, it sims crazy for me
native crystal
i shit u not 1,6 % upgrade
hollow spear
Doesn't even sim well for me idk
native crystal
i have wrathstone and crystal from dawn equipped and it says that
void needle
Crystals not great, what does pacemaker say?
native crystal
1,2
void needle
Crystal can also high/low roll like a mf
native crystal
so u are suggesting lily as use trinket and pacemaker as equip?
void needle
For dungeon gear that's probably bis
The haste secondary on sac honestly kind of kills it
Do you have an insane amount of vers? So the proc does crazy damage. Are you low geared enough that it prios mainstat more heavily?
Im not sure why your sim would recommend sacbrood
void needle
Ohhhh
That has insane variability
High/low rolls like a mf too
I like pacemaker because its consistent
Which is what I want in a passive trinket
Its also abysmal dogshit in aoe
Also relies on auto attacks which arent always possible
next otter
!gear
wicked joltBOT
sinful plinth
Hello guys im new! 
Best WA for sublety??
hollow spear
!wa
wicked joltBOT
hollow spear
Any of these
sinful plinth
Whcih one u like more?
hollow spear
Customized mine, they're all good
Try them out and stick to the one that you vibe with
It's very subjective
valid vault
is it recommended to not macro netherprism?
hazy breach
!prism
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
limpid sage
I like pacemaker because its consistent
Can recommend vers/mast soleahs as well
fossil imp
why are we running the first dance in raid builds? isnt weaponmaster just..better? we cant reset first dance in raid, or?
hazy breach
We cannot reset first dance correct
But no, 4 seconds of dance is generally better than weaponmaster
Because weaponmaster is horrendous
keen dome
You're the leader and invited them
Shockingly not!
hazy breach
It takes around 7 minutes in pure ST for weaponmaster to beat first dance
And if theres some adds so you end up storming, it kinda never does
#subtlety message
Here is an example of why weaponmaster isnt good
(it also doesnt cleave the weaponmastered strikes)
hollow spear
wm is categorically shit
not only does it not perform well numerically
it also actively feels bad
warm marlin
I think the only boss you can argue wm this tier is forge guy
tfd kinda worse when you aren't flagging on pull and wm might at least have some value in the burns
hazy breach
I think the only boss you can argue wm this tier is forge guy
Pretty sure its still an inconsequential difference
warm marlin
very likely
hazy breach
Idk i checked a top log and he got 2 extra strikes and 8 extra backstabs, so with the average numbers he did thats around 5M extra damage and at best 14 combo points, but more likely 7-8 combo points
Probably still better to have 4 extra seconds of non-flag dance tbh
clever holly
!wa
wicked joltBOT
warm marlin
Idk i checked a top log and he got 2 extra strikes and 8 extra backstabs, so wit...
holy moly wm is fire
what a talent
brittle sinew
Is Cold Blood macro broken for anyone? Was working fine yesterday for me
hollow spear
it's a pile of garbage lit on fire
hazy breach
Is Cold Blood macro broken for anyone? Was working fine yesterday for me
!cbbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
hollow spear
!cbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
clever holly
is there a weak aura that plays a sound for when evis changes to coup?
cause i found myself a few times in a situation where i would not know if my coup is the first or the second and then my proc for empowered coup runs out -.-
hollow spear
Eleem is Lucky Luke
swift tinsel
is there a weak aura that plays a sound for when evis changes to coup?
cause i...
If you have an aura that tracks escalating blade you can add a sound condition for when it hits 4 stacks
sick sand
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
clever holly
If you have an aura that tracks escalating blade you can add a sound condition f...
ok ill try thank u
hollow spear
Has something changed in our apl or anything since yesterday?
vale pine
sub clearly has the best talent tree in the game
true
hollow spear
I swear my droptimizer shows quite some different results rn
swift tinsel
ok ill try thank u
If you need help setting it up lmk
hazy breach
Droptimizer still fucks it up sometimes and i dont understand why
But if you sim it in topgear it works
vale pine
just use top gear
clever holly
If you have an aura that tracks escalating blade you can add a sound condition f...
works just fine
vale pine
we have text files you can copy/paste in #tc-research or you can use the item search function
hollow spear
Nevermind, I swapped out my Jastor and that skewed the stat prio
Do we know why that suddenly started not proccing the same way it used to?
hazy breach
No idea, but even if it worked properly its not particularly good for us since it has haste and often gives haste
So a good ring from m+ already simmed higher
tribal blade
Droptimizer still fucks it up sometimes and i dont understand why
cool forge is now simming as a +1% at 714ilvl
hollow spear
No idea, but even if it worked properly its not particularly good for us since i...
With my current setup, the only ring it loses out to at 704 ilvl is the priory ring
sick sand
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
hollow spear
On a 5min patchwerk standard sim
tribal blade
With my current setup, the only ring it loses out to at 704 ilvl is the priory r...
if jastor's is a marginal increase i would just equip a higher ilvl ring for more stam tbh
hollow spear
Yeah, that's why I droptimizered
tribal blade
less haste 😉
hollow spear
Another five years of priory prison
hazy breach
cool forge is now simming as a +1% at 714ilvl
Sims slightly worse than my mythic antenna 📡 
keen dome
Just pull it from the vault, it's just that easy
tribal blade
Sims slightly worse than my mythic antenna 📡 <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
yeah 0.2% worse than antenna for me
do i not put my hat in for antenna and try to get forge instead
vale pine
its very close
tribal blade
or just play a passive and think less
hazy breach
And while a lot of people are yapping about how antenna is oversimming because you often end up missing orbs, on fights that arent dimensius mythic last phase i genuinely think it undersims as you cannot delay picking up orbs for dances etc
tribal blade
interesting yeah
vale pine
its probably just a problem of sample size
hazy breach
Sim just gets the orbs as they come into it
hazy breach
And here is from one of our hc fights where i ran around to prevent me from picking it up and i managed to get 4 up at the same time
Which is rare, but 2 or 3 is pretty frequent
hazy breach
But again, this shit aint happening in mythic dimensius last phase
Movement too tight
hazy breach
On nexus king i can see it though
vale pine
think most won't play mythic dimensius that soon
tribal blade
exile was top dps on liquid's kill 😉
(pls no nerf)
the raid hasn't been triple stacking rogues like evokers or eles or mages
leave us alone
hazy breach
They played 3 ele shamans
tribal blade
yeah
tulip gorge
I have a feeling sub is getting nerfed
tribal blade
hard to say
tulip gorge
Just because of nexus king and dimensius
vale pine
I have a feeling sub is getting nerfed
why?
i don't rly feel like we are in fear of nerfs
hazy breach
They almost always base their nerfs and buffs on this chart at different percentiles
tulip gorge
Also sub in m+ is quite sick
hazy breach
Which warriors in s1 were smashing
Sub does a lot of damage at important part of the fights, but in return it does nothing on other parts
So i wouldnt expect a nerf
tribal blade
yeah on pure ST bosses sub isn't doing very well
hazy breach
Not a direct nerf anyway
tribal blade
like bottom of the charts
hazy breach
Theyre probably gonna buff other specs, which indirectly nerfs sub on these chart
And for reference before rwf half the people in here were clamouring about how sub needed buffs
vale pine
there is also indirect nerfs with boss nerfs
hazy breach
vale pine
as well as higher gear
tribal blade
i will be very sad if we see a repeat of last season
vale pine
e.g. if adds die faster
subtlety might lose on fights we can currently perform better due to adds
vale pine
probably won't
hazy breach
Either way if they end up nerfing sub (dont think they will) theyll probably compensate with some flat damage buffs
tribal blade
great irony in the fact that sub has bad ST in raid but great ST in keys
tulip gorge
great irony in the fact that sub has bad ST in raid but great ST in keys
probably because sub is one of these specs that change like one or two talents between raid and m+ lol
vale pine
assassiantions is good/bettter once you add more than 1 target
tribal blade
yeah i was beating people by a lot last week
it's less this week
so i have a feeling we might get slightly outscaled
hazy breach
Like if the boss is 3:10 and you hold
Youre gonna do way less than if the boss is 3:30 and you send
tribal blade
oh yeah that's death right there
last season sub was S-tier in keys at the very start and as time went in we dropped lower and lower
vestal escarp
Has hammer of wrath put the light back on?
tribal blade
we'll see if it happens again
vestal escarp
Pink row pretty high
tribal blade
rets threw a hissy fit
and got buffs
we could learn from them
with our 15 player base
tulip gorge
I really doubt that hissy fit had anything to do with the buff
but it's funny to meme on the rets
vestal escarp
Yes we learned that topping users pool means something
tribal blade
oh no they were shutting down their discord because of underperforming
and wrote a public letter to blizz
pretty funny
honestly a great deal of entitlement
tulip gorge
what are the 12 sub mains going to do if this channel gets closed
tulip gorge
some outlaw buffs would be amazing
keen dome
what are the 12 sub mains going to do if this channel gets closed <:garf_sit:133...
Subunion
exotic zephyr
how bad/good can i make sub rogue with this gear? been an assa main for 3 seasons
stats if it matters
placid elk
stats are decent, get lilly trinket
exotic zephyr
ive been trying lmao I CANT
swift tinsel
Get pvp trinket
placid elk
and sim, usually sub doesnt like haste
exotic zephyr
yeah i have too much haste in general even for assa
but also i have a lot more vers than i should
swift tinsel
Nope need more vers
swift tinsel
But ye just farm war crates for an hour or two if the group is trolling
hazy breach
can recraft my dagger, its a crit mastery still
Thats completely fine
Sub is just trying to avoid haste
swift tinsel
It’s not that bad
cunning turret
hey guys, do we do anything to play around perforated veins on m+, or is it just passive
swift tinsel
Single target takes a lil bit of understanding but the single target of sin is so easy anything looks complicated by comparison
hollow spear
accidentally took my raid loadout into priory, ended up at 9.41 mio
just proof that it doesn't really matter
hazy breach
hey guys, do we do anything to play around perforated veins on m+, or is it just...
Neither really. It doesnt do anything
The only reason its picked is because of pathing
cunning turret
thought so, but wanted to double check just incase
exotic zephyr
Single target takes a lil bit of understanding but the single target of sin is s...
that is somewhat true lmao
what about aoe then
winged mantle
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
hazy breach
Perforated veins is so bad the numbers on the sim aint moving if you disable it or not
Still within margin of error
exotic zephyr
how important is stealth with sub compared to assa? i dont wanna go outlaw cz that doesnt interest me at all but im also getting tired of the constant flame i get even from guildies when i tell them i dont have any vanishes left xD
hazy breach
Completely irrelevant
exotic zephyr
really doesnt matter at all?
hazy breach
Yes
raven flower
anyone able to help me in game with my sub roation?
exotic zephyr
It is also pretty irrelevant on assa tbh
its a bit overblown yes but at the same time its really shitty to spread bleeds on 10 targets
when i dont have my stealth
hollow spear
I thought it was something like 5-6% dps difference overall
if you chain pull
so if you get flamed by your guildies it shouldnt be that^^
hollow spear
nah
hollow spear
Whispyr had some writeup about it
hollow spear
yeah
crystal bone
ppl just dont like it
hollow spear
the drag a 5% add for 20 seconds thing isn't really chainpulling
and it hurts everybody's dps not only assa
hollow spear
not in here
crystal bone
ahh sin channel cmd
crystal bone
exotic zephyr
Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:
For starters, "Chain pulls" are NOT when the tank pulls a new pack with 1% hp remaining on the previous mobs. That is called "Bad Tanking", and it sucks for everyone in your party.
Correct Chain pulls usually happen while the previous pack is still alive and not dangerous. This increases uptime on more targets, which is the biggest increase in DPS for the entire party. This is also the biggest reason why you see high key level players doing so much damage.
Garrote is roughly 7-9% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon, but does allow for holding vanish for large chain pulls which improves the quality of each vanish
You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.
hollow spear
warrior monk shammy group in lfg
exotic zephyr
so yeah i guess its not that bad
hollow spear
get me in!!!!
crystal bone
For starters, "Chain pulls" are NOT when the tank pulls a new pack with 1% hp remaining on the previous mobs. That is called "Bad Tanking", and it sucks for everyone in your party.
i love this line
xD
crystal bone
yee
raven flower
can help me with my rotation in game
supple verge
anyone know roughly the sim diff between lethality/cb and vigor/tea in dslice?
vale pine
1-2% iirc
velvet nova
am i crazy or does my cb/sectec macro not work half the time
hazy breach
!cbbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
velvet nova
damn ty
tulip gorge
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
supple verge
is it just me or is TFD way more reliable this season?
hollow spear
Yes, they fixed some of the problems
supple verge
great
compact iron
hey quick question. if i have flawless form up do i use SS and backstab for aoe for builders?
lavish rose
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
vale pine
hey quick question. if i have flawless form up do i use SS and backstab for aoe ...
you only use backstab on very low target counts, so storm most of the time outside of dance
lavish rose
does
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique
work properly?
lavish rose
ty
vale pine
!cbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
vale pine
^ there is this
lavish rose
ffs
vale pine
also you usually delay your secret + cb cast for 2nd dance in your 90 sec window
so there is a min/max you miss out on if you only use the macro
lavish rose
yeah i know i was planning on just making my cb bind into a macor
compact iron
and for finisher at 7 target evis with flawless form up and other wise black powder?
raven flower
so for mythic is cold blood a must have now?
lavish rose
im a VETERAN sub player (played one tier)
hazy breach
and for finisher at 7 target evis with flawless form up and other wise black pow...
4 or more bp
vale pine
so for mythic is cold blood a must have now?
mythic raiding? yes
you paly could blood in raids
raven flower
what about mytic plus
glossy dew
you only use backstab on very low target counts, so storm most of the time outsi...
Still 4+ target BP outside of dance and flawless or evis outside dance with flawless 4+ targets? This is the only main confuaing part for me i keep going back to your guide on xDD
vale pine
for mythic+, you can paly tea or cold blood
hazy breach
Still 4+ target BP outside of dance and flawless or evis outside dance with flaw...
4 targets or more
vale pine
both are close enough to make it preference
hazy breach
Nothing more complicated about it
burnt panther
just bp on 4+
If we are in AOE 8 add+ it is always SS + BP and when the coup de grace is activated do we cast it too?
cursive vapor
If we are in AOE 8 add+ it is always SS + BP and when the coup de grace is activ...
In dance ss yes, outside dance you use shuriken storm as the builder and if coup is active then coup has prio over bp
vale pine
If we are in AOE 8 add+ it is always SS + BP and when the coup de grace is activ...
you always coup de grace
during dance strike w/e of target
outside storm
secret tech also always
so during dance secret > coup > bp
lone halo
!wa
wicked joltBOT
raven sage
i should craft leg or wrist for 2nd lenz emblish?
lyric mortar
can anyone note what % dmg increase is the 2T/4T? been really unlucky and still running with last seasons tier set and wondered if changing for 2T with cata is worth it
crystal bone
!tier
wicked joltBOT
Tier set:
Best Slots: Head, Chest, Hands, Legs
Strength: 2p (~10% dps) | 4p (~20% dps) -> Combined: ~30%.
Note: Try to get the 4set asap.
lyric mortar
anyone remembers the dps increase from last seasons tier? really conflicted on if its worth to cata 2p hero track
thanks for the replies btw
void ocean
we dont play much around flawless form stacks, do we?
hazy breach
Youll absolutely be doing more with the new 2p than the old 4p
hazy breach
we dont play much around flawless form stacks, do we?
The amount of them? No
tropic latch
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
slender totem
people are saying that assa is better for majority off the dungs but i hate assas ST on bosses and sub feels better
thoughts?
swift tinsel
Play what you like
lyric mortar
but would assa scale well for higher keys compared to sub who scale with versa?
hazy breach
Not really
slender totem
i like sub more so ill stick to it
lyric mortar
nerf or fix hehe
stiff spear
Can you Shadowstep Dimensius in P3 or do you insta die?
alpine wraith
insta die
lyric mortar
Can you Shadowstep Dimensius in P3 or do you insta die?
hard no for all p-hases
alpine wraith
samw with vanish strike
short radish
Not for me lmao
not for sub. try running it with other classes who can trade it to you
void ocean
tbh I dont feel bleed build being that powerful over sub, tho Im not rly an expert when it comes to bleed build gameplay
last season Id easily be better in bleed build
void ocean
also I dont rly have a good on use trink for assa, using pvp trink
alpine wraith
sub does fine if that does not happen vs it
void ocean
my biggest issue is, on large pulls, spreading bleeds for the first like 10sec or so while IC is up, meanwhile as sub im out of the gates like a tasmanian devil
i spread 2-3 ruptures and go blast
lyric mortar
my biggest issue is, on large pulls, spreading bleeds for the first like 10sec o...
we spread bleeds while tank gathering & main target no>?
hollow spear
He was talking about bleed sin
short radish
we spread bleeds while tank gathering & main target no>?
yeah but we stop spreading bleeds when tnak has gathered up
alpine wraith
gathers this season are not super long
short radish
problem is there's a lot of shit mobs in some packs
hollow spear
Yeah, I got like 5-6 globals max to spread
hollow spear
yup
short radish
eg gambit first pull
hollow spear
doesnt matter as much on sub luckily
it's not like you got much better things to do
void ocean
doesnt matter as much on sub luckily
tnx to our lord and savior superbuffed BP
hollow spear
What's the addon that says "My focus marker" at the beginning of keys?
void ocean
how do u get those WA that tell u via voice "cloak of shadows" etc
where do u get audio for that
or i have to record myself
swift tinsel
if you have liquid tr reminder addon you can set them there
void ocean
liquid what reminder, sry?
swift tinsel
idk if there are other tts ones
but that's what I use and you can set custom tts reminders
otherwise probs have to record the tts and add to sharedmedia
gilded lodge
The other option is method raid tools, they have a feature similar. Or do what healers used to do and make a MRT note and use the weakaura that can TTS the timings
cunning turret
you can use MRT note, as well as the kaze weakaura aswell, however you do have to mess around with note creations
hazy breach
You dont need a note either, you can use the reminder timeline in MRT
Its the exact same as the liquid one
ember fern
Can someone ELI5 Flawless Form / Coup / Unseen Blade? I am trying to start figuring out why my damage is horrendous in raid (I'm pretty sure it's mostly poor CD usage but I know that playing around the hero talent is important and I feel like I'm missing something since I'm not explicitly paying attention to it right now, just more or less following the rotation/getting ST out early so that it's back on CD and recouping CDs)
hazy breach
Press coup when its available
Unless flagellation is coming up shortly (in 15-20s), then you can hold and just chill
There really aint much to play around
Just a whole bunch of buffs that doesnt matter
wheat edge
if you have a coup out of cds, do you coup vanish strike coup, or is there better use of vanish in other parts of the rotation?
hazy breach
Out of dance its fine to send coup at any cp
wheat edge
oh
hazy breach
Its like a regular 6cp eviscerate
limber folio
🤨
wheat edge
why are YOU here
might wanna try some sub today 😎
hazy breach
in cds youre obviously not gonna hit 1 cp
wheat edge
ye so in cds do you send it at 6+ or just whatever you land on there (most of the time you are kinda maxed out anyways right)
limber folio
might wanna try some sub today 😎
no, i AM
keen dome
Dimesnius is a really fucking good fight on heroic.
cursive island
can someone explain me why we SS between 4 set procs Coup ? I don't get it mb :/
vale pine
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
vale pine
the explenation part
hollow spear
Did we ever?
hazy breach
You probably missread it
limber folio
well
hollow spear
You can macro CB to Sectec if you have a separate sectec keybind
vale pine
^
limber folio
oh like that
vale pine
if you amcro it and only use it
vale pine
you lose damage but thats also a decision you can make
essentially, you want to use cold blood and secret on your 2nd set of cooldowns during blades/flag
due to higher flawless form stacks
so you get more "punch" out of them
a macro would use cold blood and secret asap, so would not allow this optimization
unless you have a way to seperate things, like a 2nd key bind without cold blood
or a modifier key for it
limber folio
well
time to try the opener
wait
are we even using vanish at all
with trickster
wheat edge
so I have the backstab/dance macro thing, do people also have a seperate just normal dance bind, I feel like during cds I sometimes backstab at full combo points when I am trying to chain the 2nd dance and I might mash the bind a bit too hard, or is backstabbing at full combo points there fine anyways cause it gives a danse stack?
elfin yew
is sub using the same spec on every boss fight?
slate lantern
is sub using the same spec on every boss fight?
Yeah sub
elfin yew
nice
slate lantern
hazy breach
are we even using vanish at all
Its premeditation, so not completely useless
But very minor yes
tulip gorge
if you are a in normal dance window and you get a coup proc, how would you build combo points for the 2nd coup? do you just shadowstrike?
hazy breach
Yes
tulip gorge
assuming single target
hazy breach
Just strike and coup
slate lantern
Stealth bars same as non stealth bars is the goat
limber folio
hmmm
maybe i have the gist of it
but CB being on the worst spot on my bars
is not helping m ycase
limber folio
Stealth bars same as non stealth bars is the goat
well they are the same now atleast
oh
austere axle
if I macro a sectech with shadow blades can I keep using the cb+sectech macro 🤔
limber folio
i guess i ca njust remove shiv from my bars too tbf
rapid forum
!cbbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
hazy breach
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
ember fern
oh bless
limber folio
can you actually macro cb in with sectec, by just macroing it in first?
so #showtooltip Sectec
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Sectec
tepid trellis
ye
limber folio
alr
vale pine
i would add a modifier key
limber folio
like what
vale pine
example
vale pine
#showtooltip Secret Technique
/cast [mod:shift] Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique```if i did not typo
this should use secret normally
limber folio
what is the mod shift doing
vale pine
but if you press shift + key
cinder axle
does somone have a Focus shadowstep Kick macro that works
vale pine
it uses secret + cold blood
vale pine
just a idea, don't need to use it
limber folio
i feel i have everything preset for my bars
my ass just get confused if i try to change something up
hmmm
i think im getting the gist of sub
i just need to actually do it in real time in the raid
limber folio
even with the first dance?
vale pine
yes
vale pine
and try to optimize how many dances/symbols you can send between 90 secs
limber folio
its basically youre getting flagg into rup
vale pine
you usually flag-finish-cooldowns
limber folio
i use sectec with cb at the start?
signal lotus
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
elfin yew
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
vale pine
because you don't want to use all on use trinkets with cooldowns
it def. is easier with
/use 13
/use 14```
chilly falcon
on how many targets you play st over ss?
limber folio
and a 6/6 myth track antenna...
vale pine
on how many targets you play st over ss?
whats st?
chilly falcon
and eviscerate over bp?
chilly falcon
shadow strike? thats the name in english i think
limber folio
on st raid?
chilly falcon
and for builders?
vale pine
you strike on all target counts during dance
storm outside of dance on 2-3+
else backstab
vale pine
there are some optimizations
limber folio
are you guaranteed more than 1cp per storm if there is more than 1 target?
limber folio
cause FoK on assa just feels like it still will give you 1 cp
chilly falcon
and after secret tec always going for eviscerate?
or we keep the prio of 4+ targets bp
signal lotus
!wa
wicked joltBOT
hazy breach
Sectech > coup > BP or eviscerate
vale pine
^
chilly falcon
oh ok
hazy breach
Thats the priority
signal lotus
we only press bs with premeditation?
vale pine
yes
elfin yew
shouldn't this work? works with DM for sin just fine
#showtooltip Shadow Blades
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Shadow Blades
signal lotus
ok we do we have a wa for premeditation?
hazy breach
You can easily make one with the premade aura function in WAs, or you can nick it from any of the WAs above or just play without
lethal yew
About how often does coup proc? Is it something you can generally time and plan around?
hazy breach
Since its always the first builder in dance
hazy breach
About how often does coup proc? Is it something you can generally time and plan ...
Its kinda random but you mostly want to make sure its up for your flag+blades
lethal yew
Can it or will it time out if you don't evis/coup before flag window and hold it by casting bp or rupture?
hazy breach
It cant time out
And no you dont want to cast bp
You either refresh rupture or dont finish
To build shadow technique stacks
austere axle
how do you play your cd's if your coup is up going into them?
flag - coup - dance+bs - coup?
vale pine
secret-backstab-coup-storm(if you have blades up)/strike - coup
i assume you mean that?
austere axle
yeah i mean with flag and blades
hazy breach
Yes, you play it exactly like you would without coup
vale pine
you can flag-dance or flag-rupture depending
coup is just optional
nothing to stress out about
austere axle
secret-backstab-coup-storm(if you have blades up)/strike - coup
if you have coup up aren't you eating an unseen blade proc here?
or does that not matter
vale pine
only matters during blades
hazy breach
You should be getting a refund on any of them
But yes if you dont then one of them gets wasted, but thats better than storming twice
gaunt bluff
lethal yew
So the idea is to get 2 coup via tier set in your blades window?
tepid trellis
u will likely get 4 casts
hazy breach
Ideally yes, but its not something you should be hyperfocused on
Timing your bursts properly to begin with is 85% of playing sub
Gotta be able to use 2 sectechs, 2 dances and 2 symbols every single blades
Thats by far the most important aspect of playing sub
glacial kraken
if playing with a strong funnel spec in m+, its it better to avoid bp?
signal lotus
we press dance on cd and low cp?
glacial kraken
or is the nimble flurry vs bp neglible difference
hazy breach
BP does more overall damage
Eviscerate does more prio damage
You decide whats worth
glacial kraken
prio has at least felt nicer on clear out packs
lethal yew
If you already have 1 strong funnel, overall aoe might be better rather than 2 funnels. Depends on the pack though.
There are times I'm playing sin with an arcane mage and we delete prio mobs before everything else is dead
Ideally everything dies at the same time
signal lotus
No and not necessarily
when and when then
glacial kraken
If you already have 1 strong funnel, overall aoe might be better rather than 2 f...
had the first lieutenant in priory die before most of the pull a few times
decided to split between the miniboss and the knight instead
(as sin)
terse wolf
which ability in your action bars do you fill shadowstrike instead of ? ( for stealth action bar)
karmic harbor
do we change talents depending on the dungeon for sub?
vale pine
which ability in your action bars do you fill shadowstrike instead of ? ( for st...
backstab
terse wolf
backstab
oo well i put backstab outside of the 1-9 action bar, can i macro it somehow to work thatway now
trail bane
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
tulip heron
When going into a mini burst(dance plus symbols), if you have coup up, you send coup after sec Tec right? And would you shuriken storm as a generator to not munch an unseen blade proc from sec tec similar to how you would with the 4 pc
void ocean
When going into a mini burst(dance plus symbols), if you have coup up, you send ...
i think its coup into sec tech into coup, but not 100% sure
and if u dont have blades up i dont think storm will give u enough points
shell willow
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
clever dirge
why doesn't Cold Blood + Sectech macro work ?
#showtooltip Secret Technique
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique
runic trail
!cbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
clever dirge
tysm
dusk stone
i think its coup into sec tech into coup, but not 100% sure
no because you cant guarantee fazed on target for stacks of form'
essentially we do not change from what the robot says it best
hollow spear
Ig that kind of depends on if you have fazed up or not
sour sun
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
void ocean
tysm
U dont need to relog tho, just switch first to some assa build that doesnt use CB, like bleed build, then swap to sub, its faster
kindred seal
any simple explanation on why 4p is that much of an increase? coup reproc is that big?
because it doesnt seem like it at first glance
lucid jackal
The simple explanation is that it is
Makes your cooldowns bigger, gives you slightly more CDR, gives you more flawless form stacks
hollow spear
Kind of a loop that feeds into itself
Even though I thought we'd send more naked sectecs than we actually ended up doing
clever dirge
if i get cds during pull should i just flag dance symbols shadowstrike shadowblades sectech?
crystal bone
guys for hardmode taz mail boss, can u vanish the root and also cloak out of it?
warm marlin
You can easily run a mail on your own by tossing it to yourself
I personally would save cloak for if someone gets the bug
wheat edge
guys for hardmode taz mail boss, can u vanish the root and also cloak out of it?
vanish breaks the root for 3 seconds but then u get re-rooted
kind river
weird question maybe but is there any reason I couldn't have two shadowdance buttons, one for "entering" and another for using the 2nd dance already inside cds (or for standalone dances)? basically would I ever be entering my first dance of a full CD setup without pressing these abilities below?
hybrid compass
if im during burst and I have like 1-2 SoD more (still during SoD buff) and ST to click but no supercharged cp, do I just send one more to buff ST?
kind river
the "opener" macro I would make is symbols, dance backstab in that order
hollow spear
Yeah, you think you make it easy
But actually you make it harder
Because you still need them bound separately
warm marlin
if im during burst and I have like 1-2 SoD more (still during SoD buff) and ST t...
This should never happen
kind river
Yeah I would have both bound separately
warm marlin
You press symbols to always supercharge sectec
kind river
I don't really see the problem with that if I have muscle memory for it
lucid jackal
I don't undersand the point of it
It'd literally be adding buttons to your rotation
warm marlin
Unless you mean the second sectec in blades, in which case yes you refresh symbols early in pandemic to supercharge sectec
glass ridge
Do you only consume coup at 6cp
cursive vapor
You never have dance and symbols together in one macro
hybrid compass
Unless you mean the second sectec in blades, in which case yes you refresh symbo...
yeah yeah i meant that
warm marlin
It is affected by pandemic so if you press it with 3s or less duration you won’t lose time on it
vale pine
👍
lethal yew
When you talk about stacking coup for big burst, how do you do that?
warm marlin
When you talk about stacking coup for big burst, how do you do that?
coup becomes ready 20s before flag -> don’t press it
kind river
It'd literally be adding buttons to your rotation
I don't really feel like I'm lacking for buttons and it saves me from having to press 3 different inputs in a single between-gcd period (3 if potion opener anyway) - I'm saying this with the full knowledge that I would have a separate dance bind that does NOT press anything extra like symbols for regular use
lucid jackal
I meand o whatever works I just never see the need for macros like this
If it works It works
kind river
I'm boiling it down to this image - is this ever not the case when flagellation is up? I tastefully blacked out the rupture icon because I'm pretty sure that is not always the case since this was from an opener sequence
desert bolt
I kinda enjoy deathstalker in pure st rn, even though I'm getting better damage with trickster in heroic raids 🤔
lucid jackal
I mean a lot of the time ur gonna be at full CP where u go like
warm marlin
Most still do flag rupture regardless of opener or not
lucid jackal
flag symbols dance sectec > backstab
warm marlin
It’s nice to refresh it right before cds and ramp flag
final cedar
Am I cooked if I can’t get 3 sec tech inside cooldowns or is it a minor gain
lucid jackal
U get 1 sectec per dance/sod
cobalt vector
!gear
wicked joltBOT
final cedar
U get 1 sectec per dance/sod
But doesn’t trickster do 3 sec tech inside blades or is that old
kind river
I do not have any of the atrocious things I've typed into muscle memory yet btw, I'm just trying to establish some ground rules before I make the final decision on every sub keybind I'm making
dusk stone
if im during burst and I have like 1-2 SoD more (still during SoD buff) and ST t...
you send sectec basically only every 1st or 2nd finisher after symbols, the idea is to supercharge your big hitting ability
kind bluff
I assume when we save coup, we double coup after the first sectec to setup the second big sectec. Or do we send double coup before flag into first sectec?
turbid arch
In aoe with shadow dance are we sending shuriken storm or shadowstrike
swift tinsel
In aoe with shadow dance are we sending shuriken storm or shadowstrike
Strike
dusk stone
I do not have any of the atrocious things I've typed into muscle memory yet btw,...
literally just do what the opener says and do not deviate from it, do two dances and symbols between cd's, spread rupture outside of dances and send a symbols + sectec if there is extra, that is all sub is
kind river
I just want to avoid this right here, I can tell you I will not be pressing all of these buttons in the span of one spell queue
I just ain't that fast
not if they are assigned to 4 different keys
vale pine
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
dusk stone
the alternate way
is to bound symbols and dance to same keybind on a mouse button, hit the mouse button and press stab
kind river
the potion is not something I will probably put in any macro because potion timings can vary depending on boss but yeah
dusk stone
i dont really even bother to do my potion at that time
kind river
the other stuff is needed
dusk stone
you lose a lot of aoe if you 18 stack a boss
shrewd lantern
yeah not always ofc
keen patrol
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7RLqfZvwp3ThmKjD i was learning sub here can someone check why i did so low dps
dusk stone
the potion is not something I will probably put in any macro because potion timi...
you would not send potion outside of your burst rotation ever basically. 85% of your damage is the flag window
final cedar
Should prism only be used at max stacks or can I use it for every blades
tepid trellis
both is fine
dusk stone
what you do to shift damage around is to do 1 extra dance or 2 if there's some weird odd thing where you really need to delay flag by like 30 seconds or something
tepid trellis
its more so a judgement call you need to make
if you would benefit more from the full 18stacks on the next cd go
or to just send it at 9
hollow spear
If you have a middle sized pull going on and know there's a bigger one coming
You can hold and send it later
So if you know the route, prism gets even stronger
kind river
you would not send potion outside of your burst rotation ever basically. 85% of ...
I get that, I'm not saying you would ever do that - but potion is a 5 min cd and a fight could potentially be long enough to where you potion on 2nd flag instead of first and still get a potion at the end
depending on fight needs, damage amps etc.
and lust timing
final cedar
Also as an outlaw main I’m really bad at not sending cooldowns immediately but working on that. If I have blades ready but the pull is small, would I just use dance etc but hold blades or just send anyway and tell the tank he ruined my life
swift tinsel
If the tank is a friend then you’re required to flame if they do that
final cedar
Yes they are and I behave like a fire mage when I play sub
keen patrol
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7RLqfZvwp3ThmKjD i was learning sub here ca...
can someoe check : )
dusk stone
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7RLqfZvwp3ThmKjD i was learning sub here ca...
do you have 4pc or no?
keen patrol
no
swift tinsel
I usually just send cds unless the boss is coming up and/or delaying flag won’t be bad
dusk stone
i see you just spamming strike a lot
symbols was pressed twice in 2 gcds in the opener
dusk stone
to just spam your builder?
keen patrol
no i mean more dps
but i spoam strike spend on black powder right
on aoe
in shadow dance
dusk stone
you werent doing that in that log though, looks like a lot of strike spam
keen patrol
y
dusk stone
4p is 18% more damage overall
dusk stone
yes
swift tinsel
^ ^ ^ ^
kind river
and press dance 2 times
this is exactly what I needed, thanks
sharp lake
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7RLqfZvwp3ThmKjD i was learning sub here ca...
Big ones:
- You aren’t spreading enough Ruptures and you’re pressing Rupture during Shadow Dance. I like to set up Rupture on about 6 enemies (so 3 casts) before sending.
- You aren’t using Shuriken Storm enough. It spreads Find Weakness which dramatically increases Black Powder damage due to Shadowed Finishers. It also builds great combo points.
dusk stone
just spamming strike as well and some other minor stuff, i didnt look far enough into the log to see why he got 3 mil though
he does the burst right
the rule for rupture spreading is to spread until the mobs are gathered correctly and then send
warm marlin
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7RLqfZvwp3ThmKjD i was learning sub here ca...
wayyy over sending mini cds, being forced to start flag without any dance charges, sent all 3 symbols charges in opening burst before second sectec of blades, sending dance/symbols without sectec ready, using shadowstrike at full cp (at 1:58 burst, cast shadowstrike 4 times in a row in blades without spending).
you should get the macro to prevent oversending symbols, you're double casting it a lot and wasting huge amounts of uptime on the buff
hollow spear
My dps has improved quite a lot a since I stopped hyperfixating on spreading ruptures
warm marlin
like 3 times in a minute you did symbols sectec (1-2 globals) dance
tepid trellis
My dps has improved quite a lot a since I stopped hyperfixating on spreading rup...
should only really be on your mind during downtime
warm marlin
and ya rupture spreading is bait just send cooldowns and blast
hollow spear
should only really be on your mind during downtime
Even then I feel like after your burst, stuff is limping
tepid trellis
well in piss keys yea
warm marlin
wayyy over sending mini cds, being forced to start flag without any dance charge...
like this is happening very often and is griefing your flag windows a ton
hollow spear
i looted it today and traded it away
Farkin hell
swift tinsel
Saifu log
hollow spear
Pretty cursed
tepid trellis
once upon a time
swift tinsel
It’s bc they keep nerfing him specifically
swift tinsel
I’m on mobile a lot and logs are whole hog ass to look at there
tepid trellis
im all for people learning, but it was getting quite out of hand with the amount of people sending me logs where they clearly had not read a single line of the guides
so now i only do it for people i know or mutuals
or the very rare occasion someone comes to me directly
when i feel like doing it
swift tinsel
Ye I usually look at opener and go from there
hollow spear
I made a meme once, maybe I find it somewhere
tepid trellis
same reason i stopped doing coaching
coaching someone, who doesent even have close to what we would call the basics down
is just a waste of his money and my time
swift tinsel
Reminds me of when I used to tutor and students would tell me they were watching videos on their phone/laptop in class and wondered why they were failing
tepid trellis
one of the all time greats
is the
"im doing everything correct"
people
u open the log
swift tinsel
Lmao
swift tinsel
Or the 13 stack Danse
vale pine
think my best log was
someone trying to optimize danse
by using shiv, shuriken throw, etc
tepid trellis
ive seen that too
vale pine
all to get to use secret last gcd of dance
tepid trellis
and when i tried to correct them i was told i was wrong
swift tinsel
There was a guy who was trying to make a cast sequence macro to build the most danse stacks
warm marlin
all to get to use secret last gcd of dance
oh no
tepid trellis
and then i stopped responding
vale pine
haha
i mean, in the end it rly just comes down
many will just try wing it
and subtlety is not a spec you can "wing"
warm marlin
the secret last gcd of dance so the clones hit after all 15 danse stacks have fallen off 
swift tinsel
Lmao right
vale pine
so they will go and ask why they perform so bad
tepid trellis
i do have a funny one fuu
vale pine
i saw people doing 1-2M dps in a +12
swift tinsel
vale pine
that had no problem competing on assassiantion
and assassiantion folks always tell me how easy sub is in comparison
so idk how thats possible
swift tinsel
They have more plates in aoe but drop them all in st
raven sage
what is the best choice for crafting guys except wepon?
vale pine
i do have a funny one fuu
👀
raven sage
!craft
ripe flame
and assassiantion folks always tell me how easy sub is in comparison
Sub is way harder
swift tinsel
Bracers, ring, neck
vale pine
what is the best choice for crafting guys except wepon?
but sim it to be sure
raven sage
and assassiantion folks always tell me how easy sub is in comparison
i mean i played assa/outlaw and now sub sub was the hardest one
west socket
In aoe are we supposed to evisc once for danse?
vale pine
haha
raven sage
but sim it to be sure
im confused beetween the bracer/finger/neck
tepid trellis
and gloomblade talented
it was from vault of the incarnates
vale pine
im confused beetween the bracer/finger/neck
whatever sims best for you
weary tree
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
tepid trellis
so quite old
raven sage
whatever sims best for you
no no i mean i can get better finger/neck or bracer in dungeons and dont need too craft it? soemthign liek that i wanna know i should craft or i ahve better options than crafting in dungeons?
echo lynx
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
pulsar mist
Can I ask a question, Is the Netherprism tinket ignored until full stacks? or do you line it up with shadow blades always? Sorry if this has been answered already
swift tinsel
Can I ask a question, Is the Netherprism tinket ignored until full stacks? or do...
Either or
Can send every blades or save for a bigger 3min
Whichever makes more sense
vale pine
okay, the 40 sec guide on how to decide on your craft:
#1 download the simulationcraft addon
#2 type /simc in game and copy everything
#3 paste it on top gear on raidbots.
#4 go to > this message < and download the "....crafted gear.txt"
#5 copy the content of the text file and paste it below your /simc in top gear
#6 select bracers/belt/etc whatever you want to compare (just use vers/mastery for stats), press the small + below the selected piece and add an embelishment.
#6.1 embellishments are usually focusing lense, ascendence can be good on weapon too but both is fine
#7 press sim now
Congratulations, you now know what to craft after the sim is finished
spiral pewter
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
south kernel
i really need help with this cos i feel really stupid about it
lets assume secret tech is up and i have a coup charge how do u go about the prio?
is it tech - coup coup or coup-tech-coup or what
cos i feel like im losing GIGA dps cos of it
fair anchor
on Nexus King, I see people popping blades on CD, or holding 2nd blades until 2:50, it depends on your dps to trigger P2 ?
raven sage
okay, the 40 sec guide on how to decide on your craft:
#1 download the simulatio...
xDDD
dusk stone
we don't know we don't see your sims
you can use top gear to look at what you gain from each piece from each dungeon and make some crafts as well
vale pine
i really need help with this cos i feel really stupid about it
lets assume secre...
priority is as following (during shadow dance):
- Secret Technique
- Coup de Grace
- Regular Finisher
south kernel
even if that causes me to munch the 2 procs ig et from secret tech?
void hound
for sub the secod soak is better for forgeweaver no?
dusk stone
reading tooltips is a strong thing to do
vale pine
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
vale pine
the 2nd optimization can be done during blades
swift tinsel
Blizzard tooltips are sketch
dusk stone
you don't get flawless if coup target isn't fazed and sectec gives fazed
swift tinsel
Take with grains of salt
south kernel
oh yea during blades or in aoe i can just storm
but in ST its still worth it to tech first despite muncing the two procs yea?
swift tinsel
It’s an unfortunate trade off
vale pine
the prio does not change between single and multi target
south kernel
It’s an unfortunate trade off
yea.... i get ptsd from munching procs cos of play enha last season
swift tinsel
Yeah we’d really like if they upped the max stacks of EB and still have it consume 4 but 
Maybe we see with new row in midnight but not holding any breaths there
little fractal
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
viral phoenix
double checking if its still true for this season does it matter if trinket is right before sec tech / right after? as long as its active before the clone hits its gucci right?
strange chasm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
viral phoenix
yeah for sure, if my muscle memory is going blades + symbols + sectech -> trink is that something that needs to be rewired or all g
swift tinsel
Long as it’s less than a second after you cast Sectech you’re good
viral phoenix
were people feelcrafting teh coup optimization shuriken storming outside of blades in situations it gives you full cp? Like in a m+ 7 pack is it worth doing the optimization on a non cds dance to preserve UB? cause shuriken storm gives you full combo points as well in that situation
tepid coral
What belt proc doe we play?
hazy breach
Crit
tepid coral
thx!
weary tree
I think an UI error is breaking my CB + ST macro
Anyone an idea how to figure out what it could be?
weary tree
Yoo rude
alpine wraith
nah but it is a bug since s1
weary tree
Is it?
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
cunning turret
does anyone know if it's possible to stack the netherprism before pulls, or does pulling reset the stacks?
void needle
!up
wicked joltBOT
hazy breach
does anyone know if it's possible to stack the netherprism before pulls, or does...
Pulling a raid boss or starting m+ key resets the stacks
So no you cant prestack it
It only works in hardmode tasza
abstract mica
guys is cold blood buged ?
hazy breach
guys is cold blood buged ?
!cbbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
abstract mica
ty
clever lintel
I plan on swapping back and fourth between ass and sub in raid. Is elemental focusing lense vs asc writhing that much a dps loss?
clever lintel
Thank you for saving me the time to sim ❤️
terse wolf
oo well i put backstab outside of the 1-9 action bar, can i macro it somehow to ...
anyone can help on this?
warm marlin
they are your binds cuh use what you find most comfortable
i have shadowstrike in the shadowstrike slot outside of stealth
stealth bar = non stealth bar
karmic harbor
do we change talents depending on the dungeon for sub?
hazy breach
Not really
terse wolf
stealth bar = non stealth bar
i want to keep my main important spells away from modifiers
if i put a single action bar for it im wasting that button for it to only be usable when in stealth
Rather do that instead of having shadowstrike on something like Shift R
west tide
if they are close wouldnt we always choose ascendance
cause its like the potential to crank crazy on bursts
alpine wraith
yes ascendance is quite good
dusk stone
like ryldd said, your 1st action bar or main one should be exactly your stealth bar
alpine wraith
but the diff is minimal nowadays
terse wolf
like ryldd said, your 1st action bar or main one should be exactly your stealth ...
i made a slight error thought shadowstrike works like how you want ambush > sinister strike in outlaw
so ill just give it a different key
warm marlin
if they are close wouldnt we always choose ascendance
accounted for in sim, but ascendance seems equal for me and has actual aoe value unlike lens
so i think its just better atm