subtlety

[warm depot]

dotc is sick now

[hazy breach]

You played claw in keys before too

Its just good in raid now too

Which is good, because its more fun to play than wildstalker imo

Not having moonfire is insanely based, hate that spell

[tame terrace]

we send cds on araz pillars ye?

[jagged rover]

no, just spare dances

[tame terrace]

bet

[jagged rover]

if you delay your first set of cds by 25-30 seconds everything lines up well. Just use a dance + symbols in the opener

[tame terrace]

yeye

[shadow lance]

Man, so real

Still waiting for a fcking ring to drop

And a decent offhand

[brave moth]

What should be my top dmg in dungeons. Nible, BP or SecTec (I only have the old 4p)

Because I noticed BP is hitting kinda hard

[dusk stone]

I believe nimble

Sectec is a lot too

[chrome palm]

i defended our honor

[tepid trellis]

nimble-bp-sectech-coup

coup can sometimes go higher

[warm marlin]

Based triple rogue comp

[young roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[chrome palm]

this is the push comp s3

[warm marlin]

Would love it but literally none of my friends even alt rogue anymore

[chrome palm]

yeah no one really alts rogue anymore

maybe that changes this season

[warped zodiac]

do i push ST on cooldown even outside of dance windows

[weary dust]

whats better for m? assa or sub?

[tepid trellis]

98% of the time only inside of dance

[tepid trellis]

m+ or mythic raid?

[bleak night]

making this my wallpaper

[tepid trellis]

jk assa for both

[weary dust]

m +

[warm marlin]

I am pleasantly surprised by how much the 4p helped in keys

Kinda blasting

[void hound]

using vanish on post man hard mode wont do anything stupid like instantly explode the package

[weary dust]

cool

[alpine wraith]

if anything hits for 20m+ sub is better than assa otherwise they do big dmg

[chrome palm]

4pc gaming is crazy in keys

its so much fun

[warm marlin]

When eviscerate gets buffed it’s gonna be brazy

[chrome palm]

when i dont have to pres bp anymore and just purple outlaw

then we are in for a sub season

[dusk stone]

Anyone tried ds sub in keys at all even somewhat recently

Im curious about it the funnel seems shit but idk

[bleak night]

[dusk stone]

What even is the 4p for ds sub

[chrome palm]

symbols of death duratoin

symbols eats a mark

[dusk stone]

Bp still doesn't work for darkest night right

[sonic turret]

Should I be mixing in symbols off cd if I’m running 3 of them? I have been stacking them with my shadow dances but I always have that squirrelly one around that seems to throw off my whole rotation

[gaunt bluff]

dont u have to run around for antenna?

or i read the tooltip wrong and its fine if u only have one orb at a time on u

[swift tinsel]

the orbs come to you

[gaunt bluff]

yes but very slowly

[swift tinsel]

you get a lil moth on your head

[gaunt bluff]

and it says they overlap or something

[swift tinsel]

yep they act like Ironfur

so each stack has its own duration

[gaunt bluff]

so technically if u go into burst window u should try to run around and gather them

[swift tinsel]

if you want, they don't spawn across the map

so its not that crazy

[gaunt bluff]

i mean i had it on champion and it felt like such a pain ngl

[swift tinsel]

you can see other people's orbs so might get tricked

unless they changed that

[dusk stone]

You use symbols and dance together generally and when you have an extra symbols you press it when <9 seconds cd or less of sectec

It gives supercharger, sectec does a lot of damage

[swift tinsel]

haven't played with anyone else that has one yet

[gaunt bluff]

i lowkey hope i roll a mythic seaforium or crystal in vault

so i wont have to think about minmaxxing antenna

[swift tinsel]

its less random than crystal

you don't have to think about antenna, its like s2 tier set it just exists

[split rain]

Most of the top RIO people seem to be playing the old build with rotten. I mean it doesn't sim as high but do you guys think that in practice it just plays better than the finality build which is why it might be worth running it?

[lilac stag]

and yet people still tried to play around tier vs turning off WA

[dusk stone]

It's less thinking. You get reliable fw and track it less.

There's gonna be a lot of screwiness rnging fw all the time if you don't have tr

[gaunt bluff]

for me in dslice they sim within 50-100k anyway

i just play what feels better

[dusk stone]

I will admit finality is very tempting

You also get less symbols duration and that's less dance cdr

[remote shuttle]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[split rain]

Yeah rotten definitely feels better to play. But then again on big pulls you just end up spamming BP and 30% extra dam on it just seems like too good to pass.

Could be a thing to rotate around between dungeons ie. Dawnbreaker / Halls

[hazy breach]

Its not 30% really since its every other one, but theres some bugs that makes it closer to ~20% rather than 15%

[remote shuttle]

15%

bro just found a frost dk, 8.25M ecodome 12

...nc

ahbugs to 20% didnt know lul... subugs everyday

[warm marlin]

[dusk stone]

We don't spam storm though it's always strike regardless of mob size?

[warm marlin]

I mean you can think about rotten as 44% damage to BP!

[split rain]

No but with rotten you get fw on the entire pack

[warm marlin]

Depending on how many FW you’re applying from storm for rupture it’s less, with more crit etc it’s less

[alpine wraith]

yea rotten gets worse as you get more gear

but rn it is very good

[dusk stone]

I mean with TR, it's 1

[remote shuttle]

@alpine wraith @hazy breach did u try double trinket on use on m+ ?

[swift tinsel]

sound annoying

[coarse flare]

So are we supposed to hold shadow dance usages before our big cds are back up? If so, how long before should I start saving?

[dusk stone]

What storm is good for though is being a gap closer that does damage and useful things

Sometimes strike isn't an option

[remote shuttle]

didn't see any combination around, on guides, but i find very good prio trinket 2 min cd + lilly 90 sec cd.... lilly is macro with SB, and priory one is on use on dances with symbols here and there (with TFD so 2x sec tec under one dance)

[hazy breach]

No because i dont have prism+forge

[remote shuttle]

and using shuriken nado twith prio tkt to fast cdr

[alpine wraith]

dont have 2 trink rn

[remote shuttle]

ah nvm

[alpine wraith]

but ideally you want prism or forge

[maiden hamlet]

can pair one of those w/ lilly?

[remote shuttle]

ye i'm in a chill guild group, we did all normal and first hc

[hazy breach]

Why

[remote shuttle]

2/7 id

[hazy breach]

Lily is already 90s

[remote shuttle]

i push daily m+

[alpine wraith]

you can pair prism

and forge

or forge and pvp or prism and pvp

but strongest is forge+prism

[remote shuttle]

on small cd with tfd is strong having a on use that gives u always primary stat

• mast

[alpine wraith]

a passive would be better

[hazy breach]

Or have have half of what pvp trinket givees you all the time by using a passive

[alpine wraith]

as it can proc on your cds

[hazy breach]

Idk

[split rain]

How about thoughts on running Inevitability + Deeper Daggers + 1/2 Finality over PV + 2/2 Finality. It doesn't sim much lower on 5 targets / 6min but is potentially better for st / prio damage in m+?

[remote shuttle]

like 1st pack u go lilly sb flag 2x sd... at 30 secs if fight is going long, u use priory one (2 min cd) and send another 1 or 2 dances, dep on coup procs

with tornado is good

1 min u send small cd

1:30 u have lilly flag sb 2xsd

seems pretty fun at least

[alpine wraith]

i mean you can try

[remote shuttle]

i'm doing 11s like that

floodgate 7M overall, just sham buff

[alpine wraith]

i do like pvp trink when i get prism i will use those 2

[remote shuttle]

idk if sims good cuz i didn't see this trinket combination anywhere...

[alpine wraith]

because forge kekw

[remote shuttle]

ye but pvp u dont have main stat

nedd 2x on use with 6.5/7k agi

imho

when u use other trinket

[ocean shore]

is it worth going 2piece 2piece for sub rogue tier or just wait for 4set?

[turbid apex]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[remote shuttle]

is good i think we didnt played aropund ws

[alpine wraith]

i mean pvp trink you only use on combos where you can use it twice kinda

so with forge or prism

[alpine wraith]

insta replace old 4p

[ocean shore]

so go 2piece 2piece?

ok

[alpine wraith]

yea

[remote shuttle]

man also on bosses having priory trinket off cd, when u alredy used flag/lilly/sb, is nice to send extra dances with extra burst

u just dont touch the 120s one if lilly is 30s or less cd

but as u said we need raid ones... think to use the 2 min cd one with amps, to let netherprism farm more stacks for next burst

seems fun tho

[alpine wraith]

yea priory and lilly just dont give enough stats

forge and prism are just better

[remote shuttle]

sure, 25-40 k

[split rain]

@alpine wraith thoughts? Do you think there are scenarios where you might wanna run this?

[remote shuttle]

but for m+ i find myself better with this setup than lilly+pacemaker

more burst on demand when u are far from next flag and sb

cuz now normal dances with tfd and 4p, are rock and roll

[radiant cedar]

hello sub lords, when the fuck do i black powder vs eviscerate in aoe pulls. dalaran gaming video is just spamming black powder, another video is just perma spamming eviscerate

[hazy breach]

4 or more bp

[radiant cedar]

what about flawless form and nimble flurry

does that not make eviscerate a bigger priority

[hazy breach]

No

Thats why we evis at 2 or 3 targets

[radiant cedar]

because its only 60% effective im guessing

okay

[hazy breach]

BP just does too much damage

[dusk stone]

Bp is like 430k finisher and evis is like 609k or something it is not a massive difference

[acoustic lodge]

Could someone send me Fuu's race sim please

[radiant cedar]

im assuming its generally best to secret technique after you go into shadow dance since you get 30% damage?

[alpine wraith]

yea ideally

if you sec tech outside of dance is because you dont have enough cdr on dance

[dusk stone]

And you want to use symbols with sectec outside of cds

[solar thicket]

What stat should aim for so'leah trinket? the sim doesn't tell me what stat it is using
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kxpnMhc7M68CEwwquAyrt6

[hazy breach]

Not haste

[proper stone]

when crafting weop, seeing multiple rogues go different embells - are these all close for m+ or?

focussed lens, weopon grp, or ascension?

[violet tiger]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[next otter]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[proper stone]

anyone?

[swift tinsel]

embellishments are very weak

so they're kinda whatever

[dusk stone]

I don't think it matters but idk. Guide says they are close and lens is best, others are better for swapping to sin

[crisp lion]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

can do ascension + banding or double lense

[proper stone]

ty

[radiant cedar]

do you only hit coup de grace in aoe if flawless form is up? or do you never press it

[swift tinsel]

you need form up for it to cleave

[radiant cedar]

im aware

that wasnt the question my friend

flawless form procs nimble flurry, im sort of using it interchangeably, mb to be fair

should have been more clear

[hazy breach]

What is the question?

If you use the capstone of your hero talent?

Yes

[radiant cedar]

great insight, you should write guides

[alpine wraith]

you always use coup if possible in dance and with flawless up

usually you get flawless in dance by using secret technique

[radiant cedar]

copy that

[alpine wraith]

there are sometimes in St where you want to hold it for a bit

mainly because our dmg outside dance is not that big

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[alpine wraith]

and with new tier set there is alsoa a bit of an optimization to not losing unseen blade procs

[radiant cedar]

i see, so if you already have coup de grace you dont wanna trigger unseen blades anymore, especially since it has a CD (atleast with backstab and shadowstrike rite)

i didnt understand it in the wowhead guide but ok good

[rich stump]

!prism

how we using prism?

[tepid trellis]

With blades

[rich stump]

I guess on pull it doesn't provide any benefits though

does it hinder m+ in any way?

[random mason]

No

You just have one less use

But also you get more if you delay cds for a bit

[rich stump]

man I hate having to raid to be optimal in m+

will that vendor from last season be coming back?

[random mason]

Yeah

.5 patch

Return of dinars

I assume the same as last time, only get to buy the difficulty you cleared

[random mason]

Can just run lily instead

[graceful osprey]

I’m watching liquid’s rwf stream…there’s no rogue…it’s over for us

[swift tinsel]

[lilac stag]

Well. It never really started for sub.

I’m sure it’ll all work out in the end.

[dusty totem]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dusk stone]

Best I can do is 10% aura to ret

[vestal escarp]

good to know

i gaslighted my guild telling em that rog was goated for this prog and that we needed 3

[rich stump]

I mean sub is lowkey pumping, and I don't even have 4 set yet(not even 2 xd)

[vestal escarp]

no set??

nerf????

[rich stump]

I just simmed and 4 pieces is a 20% DPS increase in Dungeon Slice

comapred to last season 4 piece

[pearl swan]

do we use prism as a 3min trink?

or every sblades?

[jagged rover]

either way, sims the same

[pearl swan]

have you seen the sim?

[alpine wraith]

you can use it either 1:30 or 3 mins

[pearl swan]

how big is the diff

[alpine wraith]

depending on the fight or how you want

around 0,1

[pearl swan]

interesting

[alpine wraith]

well agi gets doubled what do you expect XD

although if you delay 1:30 use

you might lose stacks if you use it on 3 mins

but fights like second boss forgeboi king and dimensius

you can bing chill send big D

[warm marlin]

was 10k when i did it

eleem said maybe a bit bigger

[alpine wraith]

depends a bit on gear but yea 0.1 to 0.2

literal margin of error

[frank path]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[tribal blade]

yoooo

[crystal bone]

nice we just killed them also

gz

i got a rank 2 parse lets goo

[still quartz]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[stiff remnant]

no rogues in current RWF boss fight Saaaadge

[jagged rover]

mmm mastery

[tribal blade]

OK

WE'RE COOKING

boots and trinky from heroic so far

what a day

[lucid jackal]

its beacuse atrophic doesnt work

[stiff remnant]

Yeah

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message

[lucid jackal]

This is what I was responding too btw

Which is literally just straight up incorrect

[fickle pivot]

how are people getting deathgrips of sudden eclipse and pants of sudden eclipse without raiding?

[lucid jackal]

I checked the entire raid, it works on every boss, except this one

W rage bait

[steel jolt]

can drop from delve vault slots and they can catalyze too

[fickle pivot]

ahhhh, im just returning to retail but whata does catalyzing mean?

[steel jolt]

you can turn regular pieces of gear into tier with charges that you get every other week

the NPC is in Dornogal

but since the season is still new you probably want to save your charges to see if you get tier on Tuesday from the vault

[fickle pivot]

thank you! ill have to look up how to do all that, never heard of it!

[steel jolt]

you also get a catalyst charge from reaching 2k mythic score

[zealous hedge]

#showtooltip Symbols of Death
/castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null
/cqs
How come this dont work anymore?

[idle aurora]

would we use two on use trinlkets?

[warm marlin]

half was an exaggeration. it doesn't work on loomithar pylons. rain's mythic log atro mitigated half the damage devo aura did. araz obviously it doesnt work. soulhunters you need to upkeep it on all the bosses currently doing damage which may not be feasible (atro did 20% less mitigation in our heroic log than devo).

besides, the main point is about raid spots. atro's minimally stronger effect when it works is not going to make or break rogue being in the comp. you won't ever take a rogue over a pally for that extra .4% dr. you will drop a rogue when atro doesn't work (as we saw in LOU and MO)

[idle aurora]

lol i know we are supposed to have macos seperate

but i use this ;D

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=10 Flagellation, Shadow Dance, Shadowstrike, Symbols of Death, 13, Shadow Blades, Secret Technique

[lucid jackal]

I mean I agree with that

[woeful locust]

"rain's mythic log atro mitigated half the damage devo aura did." this is likely attributed only to the mitigation tracking on warcraftlogs being potentially broken

there is not enough damage from sources that aren't the boss to explain this difference

[warm marlin]

very likely

i didn't dive too deep into exactly how much damage the pylons were doing

regardless its probably enough to outdo the .4% extra dr from atro

[woeful locust]

92.6% of our damage taken was sourced from loom it isn't enough to outdo it

and atro is 0.6 extra

[warm marlin]

ok am liar (and can't read)

[woeful locust]

I think the paladin hero talent and aura mastery are throwing off the devo aura numbers

[warm marlin]

grats on boss kill btw

[zealous hedge]

Do we have a macro that lets us Step Kicka mouseover target? without using both charges of step

[patent surge]

Step has a gcd for itself that will prevent u from using both charges up

[zealous hedge]

I kinda saw that but idk it feels weird having the macro setup to step then kick on mouseover so i think ill just stick to the two seperate binds for now

[crimson python]

Hey guys. Cold blood build or Tea build for m+?

[zealous hedge]

tea

[crimson python]

and what about raid?

[zealous hedge]

i believe ST and cleave is CB and council is Tea

[crimson python]

Nice and 1 more question. why most rogues use CB Build for M+ atm?

[zealous hedge]

Not sure, it might be better without tiers? lower mythics i think can go either way tbh

[warm marlin]

other build scales better with ilvl/getting more crit, familiarity with rotten style

[ember hound]

!FUU

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wild hornet]

giga

[wild hornet]

cb is still better on lower keys

[short radish]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/igVMfcuHDJ3cm4H1fZ2pj8

is this bait? 694 sigil simming more than 704 soleah?

do i even get the effect?

[alpine wraith]

think it just does some dmg

solea is noit that good

[zealous hedge]

Anyone here good with UI stuff? i have Kierons UI package and i cannot for the life of me figure out how to get it to stop resetting my UI scale everytime i reload or log in

[violet palm]

How does sec tech work? Do I send it second time as last global during first dance or I wait till second?

[short radish]

i wait till 2nd

[violet palm]

So it does not snapshot dance macabre stacks?

[short radish]

no

only feral snapshots

[honest yacht]

Read the details for Astral Antenna on the wow head guide.

Is it a big loss if I don't move to collect the orbs? They seem to move slowly towards me anyway and it's a lot to keep track of already in M+ 😅

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, you got there fast

[young mural]

nice work

[tribal blade]

ty!

if i was going super degen and not helping people i think i'd be 3k atm

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

I need 200~ rating for 2.5k which was my goal this week. Been a pretty good week.

[tribal blade]

nice!

i got hero prism and boots from raid today

[keen dome]

I was going to do it yesterday, but I got 6/8H and spent the rest of the evening being confused

[tribal blade]

massive day

[keen dome]

Soul Hunters and Fraciltus just fell over in a pug. Two pulls each.

[young mural]

ggs

[tribal blade]

yeah they weren't so bad

[keen dome]

Araz took about 10 and I had exepcted both of them to be pug killers but nah. free.

I suspect part of it is the same reason council heroic was easy. Not much difference from normal + people doing it have done the harder boss before.

[steel zinc]

The whole raid is undertuned

Normally first 3-4 mythic bosses are like hc endboss difficulty. Now I argue the 3rd boss mythic (spider) is already more of a gear check

[keen dome]

Sounds likely, yeah. I def feel like it's a bit undertuned.

Soul Hunters just felt like they did no damage.

I'm curious how Salad will be in a pug, but with good damage I bet he falls over

And good tanking I guess

[radiant galleon]

Hey guys , wanted to ask about some tips . So i watched some videos and read some articles about sub. I've been playing it for 2-3 weeks now but i seem to be struggling on ST. There is something i keep messing in the ST rotation. So idk if i got it right but when there's less than 30 secs till shadow blades and flagellation come out cd i need to hold on my shadow dance and symbols (preferably to have 2 SD and 2 Symbols for the dps window with SB and Flagellation)? But those 30 secs result in huge dps loss spamming only backstabs and eviscerates even if i use my vanish + shadowstrike for full combo points evis. Also i used to use a macro for sectech + cold blood but seems like i have to try use 2 cold bloods while waiting for the 90sec cd of the shadowblades and i really mess it up there.

[keen dome]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[keen dome]

It be how Sub is.

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[radiant galleon]

i see thanks

can i just 1 more question. Sometimes when in SD + Symbold when i shadowstrike i get like 5/7 cmb pts . Do i double shadowstrike and then spend or do i just spend right away

[loud gyro]

can someone explain me why on aoe i hit harder with shadstrike > eviscerate insted of shuriken storm > black powder? is this correct??

[paper flame]

does the second, free escalating blade have a different spellID than the first regular one?

my WA does not like to show the 5 sec timer

[tribal blade]

i just saw the craziest troll i've ever seen in a gambit ever

we're on the big pull before last boss with all the casters

and the shammy uses NON KNOCKUP thunderstorm

and blasts everything all over the place

so we wipe

[shadow lance]

Sims send in the first when you are in tfd

[steel zinc]

9/10 times you do hit it in the 1st sometimes unlucky proccs or missing one gcd uptime will screw that up a bit

[shadow lance]

Sure but still

Send it in first if you can

I guess

[shadow lance]

Do you want to speak about the 5 kick overall mage I had last time?

[tribal blade]

hahaaaa

ranged have no excuses to not press their kicks

[shadow lance]

Legit a npc

[tribal blade]

no positioning requirements for them

[shadow lance]

Have to shadowstep kick in middle of dance

Tank and I had 39 kick each

[tribal blade]

i just ran a 12 hoa with guildies and we pugged a vdh

and this guy legit never used silence sigil or chains

actually a miracle we timed the key

[keen dome]

CRIMINAL, arrest that shaman

[tribal blade]

i was pretty mad

i just put "trolling" in the chat and left

i usually don't say anything, but this time it was warranted lol

[keen dome]

Ye, sometimes people just...

I had a shammie go off on a mage about using lust wrong. And when I looked at who lusted, it was the shaman.

[shadow lance]

I mean, it's okay, we're farming stuff

Everybody can't be gifted

But pls

My nervers are dying

[keen dome]

There are some very powerful key terrorists out there this week

[astral axle]

imagining hoa with no silence or chains from a vdh

🥴

[tribal blade]

i had honestly forgotten how far thunderstorm knocks stuff

[tribal blade]

well this was a 13

so not farming haha

farming IO

[shadow lance]

Yeah, I mean it's okay in 10

But sit in ten if you can't press your fcking spells

[keen dome]

Even in a 10 this week it's kinda annoying but at least, yeah, it's gonna be worth finishing for vault / loot.

[tribal blade]

it's honestly on me, i saw the group's IO was pretty low

but i thought "gambit is super free, should be fine"

nah perma floor pov by them all

[shadow lance]

Kekw

[keen dome]

I actively try to join low IO groups because they're always exciting. "Damn, this guy has a 10 and he's done 2 keys this season and none last. This'll be a blast"

[tribal blade]

HAHA that's actually very true

[shadow lance]

I pref doing 12 to avoid affix tbh

[keen dome]

Or you find that group whic is doing the dungeon blind on a +2 with no warning and get annoyed when you tell them tactics after they wipe on a boss multiple times.

[shadow lance]

Had a streets when affix explode in mail pull

At the moment I was under blades

[keen dome]

Yeah affix sucks, +12 is so much more comfy

[shadow lance]

We suck too hard to doing it

People are like "rogue, do affix"

[keen dome]

"how???"

"you've got the boss by the other wall!"

[shadow lance]

Ofc dumbass, between my dances and if pack is in the balls

[keen dome]

I mean I'll hit blind if the pack is on balls even in CD's 'cos it's gonna be better than relying on other people

[shadow lance]

Sure

[keen dome]

But when the pack isn't close?

not my problem

[tribal blade]

"rogue do the affix which you are one of the worst classes in the game to help"

[shadow lance]

But can't blind through walls or at 100 yard

[keen dome]

"let me just run over, kick one, kdiney one, blind one well there's 7 left have fun guys"

[shadow lance]

You could blindshot ahaha

cheap shot*

[tribal blade]

rogues should only ever be back up for that affix

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

blind is horrible for it

[keen dome]

Blind has a lot more value as a stop, imo. And a lot of classes have vastly better tools.

[tribal blade]

yeah very true

[shadow lance]

It makes me think, one of you use a vanish/cheap shot macro?

[tribal blade]

nah not really

no need for it

[keen dome]

I don't even have cheap shot on my bars

[shadow lance]

Sometime I use for urgent stop/cc

But I still press vanish cheap shot

[keen dome]

Yeah, I can see the use and I probably sould

But I could also just not

[tribal blade]

i used to have a dance+cheap shot macro

mainly for pvp

but was kinda a troll macro sometimes

[shadow lance]

#showtooltip
/cast [stance:0] Vanish; Cheap Shot

Should work

[lusty root]

Not having cheap shot on your bars is pretty wild, I won’t lie

[shadow lance]

Fuck

Doesn't work

I'm stupid

Maybe it's not possible to make it on single press

[tribal blade]

WE are stupid friend

[shadow lance]

🫂

[keen dome]

Always, forever. Team stupid

[tame terrace]

sub feeling insane on h saladbar

[short radish]

still being outdps'd by assi

[vale pine]

did they fix streets?

👀

[keen dome]

They added more time to it, so maybe.

It's still too spooky to run

[warm marlin]

i dont think its that bad now

the other hotfixes helped

probably still the hardest dungeon

[tame terrace]

idk im doing pretty well in this pug prog pepw

sin overrated

[lusty root]

Right now most dps difference is gear related tbh, give it a few weeks and we will see where each spec realistically sits in raid

[tame terrace]

ye lol

i just feel comfortable as sub for the titan burst

[lusty root]

But I agree, I feel like I’m blasting on sub right now in raid

Oh yea, very satisfying cd timings on that boss

[tame terrace]

sin has similar timings since ur playing fatebound

ive done like half sin and sub on this boss to get a feel and just felt more comfy as sub

[lusty root]

This was hands down my worst pull of the night and of course it was the kill lol

[tame terrace]

lol

happened on my araz kill 🙁

[lusty root]

If we killed it the pull before that one I would’ve gotten rank 1/2 🙁

Sometimes we’re just unlucky

[shadow lance]

Making sub great again

[icy mulch]

Same

[shadow lance]

"Rogue broken"

[icy mulch]

[shadow lance]

Kekw

People doesn't understand how the fck we have to optimize not instinctive way to play

[lusty root]

I think I underestimate how bad the average player is lmao

[tame terrace]

god this is so satisfying

nexus king platform

just fucking shooting up

[lusty root]

How close are you to the kill?

[tame terrace]

closest this pugs gone is 30

[shadow lance]

HC pug? damn you're courageous

[tame terrace]

closest my guilds done is 21

im bored

lol

also getting some sub practice in

[shadow lance]

Yes, I see

But, cba

[tame terrace]

ye its not super worth it for sure

lol

[shadow lance]

Nothing I really want there

[lusty root]

Just flex on them 😎

[tame terrace]

i want the neck for sin when i swap to that for fun

[lusty root]

Is your guild not raiding anymore this week?

[tame terrace]

nope

2 day a week

[lusty root]

Ah fair fair

[shadow lance]

Same here

[lusty root]

We’re going in tomorrow as an extra day to get dimensius down hopefully

[shadow lance]

2 days week, we one shooted nearly all hc

I mean 6 first bosses

[lusty root]

Yea hc was pretty chill, made me nervous that mythic was gonna be undertuned but it definitely doesn’t appear to be the case lol

[shadow lance]

Imo, boss were harder than s2

In design and damages I think

On LOU, it was just mechanic failure that wiped us

[lusty root]

I don’t remember heroic tuning for s2 tbh

[shadow lance]

I never press feint that much in hc I think

[keen dome]

"yes, but not in the way you are thinking"

"in many ways, actually"

[shadow lance]

That close to shut down the discord

For once sub isn't buggy as fck

[tame terrace]

got to 24% and i had to call it for myself

its so late lol

wonder how much more damage i couldve been doing if i crafted a dagger instead of a ol mh

[tepid trellis]

not bad for no skyfury and first key of the day

[solar ermine]

Finally got the Lilly from EDA 👌

[shadow lance]

I need to focus more on supercharging second coup

To reach this dps

[warped zodiac]

i've only peaked about 6m overall and i'm hoping it's copium for not having a 710/720 dagger lol

[lilac stag]

Craft a dagger?

[short radish]

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/noice-brooklyn-ninenine-b99-smile-gif-11928987

[warped zodiac]

I greeded getting the heroic dagger off 2nd boss but it didn't drop in a 30 man so that's my bad 🤷

[lilac stag]

so craft it now? Idk wtf people are thinking not just crafting the 720 and being done.

[short radish]

gotta hold onto the spark and gather interest on it

[lilac stag]

yeah why use it when it has its highest value

my bad

[short radish]

might get a myth track dagger next week and it'll be entirely useless

not like there's another hand to put the weapon in

[lilac stag]

not like those stats and / embellishment have some minor bonus as well

[tepid trellis]

insta dagger craft

INSTA

[tribal blade]

i have 0 regrets crafting dagger this week

[lilac stag]

I had zero regrets crafting the 691 last week

[tribal blade]

the ability to carry every key run has been chef's kiss

[short radish]

its the only week we're going to feel strong in

[warm marlin]

im gonna lose my marbles

[lilac stag]

keys next week for me. Leave back for home this afternoon and won’t get back til Monday

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade want to do a 10 tomorrow?

[supple verge]

anything worth picking up for conq this season? i wore a vers/mast neck for a couple weeks in s2

[warm marlin]

💀

[tribal blade]

trying to get ring?

[warm marlin]

yep

i got the assa one last run

[tribal blade]

i'll be busy the whole day, i have key plans and then straight into heroic last 2

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

i legit got that ring as my very first piece of loot this week lol

[warm marlin]

what did i ever do to you stealthi

[lilac stag]

damn. I’ll have to poke around. Hate missing a mythic vault slot but it is what it is.

[tepid trellis]

i still have this after 80 keys done

i needed to vent my anger at someone

[tribal blade]

i'll see if i can squeeze you in, at the tail end of the night we might be able to do it

[warm marlin]

80 is certainly a lot

im at 50 something

[tepid trellis]

played nonstop since wednesday

[hollow spear]

Yall are making me feel bad for having a life outside of wow

[lilac stag]

I was happy to sneak in 2 8s with zero IO for dagger crests

[warm marlin]

i only need the taza neck and the sub ring from db

and i can rest easy

[tepid trellis]

took time off

[hollow spear]

My better half would kill me if I did

[warm marlin]

mainly trying to grind the sub ring for taza hm today

[opal basalt]

i did 38 keys according to the audit sheet, after day 3 no guild keys happened anymore and i barely get invited to pugs even with like 695, being a bl healer and 2.5k score

like idk what else people want this early in the season lol

[tribal blade]

damn i've only done 40 keys

but then again i've been pushing a bit of IO too so that slows things down

[lilac stag]

700 ilvl

[tribal blade]

we did a bunch of heroic bosses today with 1/3rd of our roster not here because it was an optional night

so i got the boots from the dhs and prism

[opal basalt]

sorry, healers dont get raid loot with us apparently

this all i got from raid

and its sick for keys

but that was it

[lilac stag]

tanks don’t get loot. Healers get leftovers.

[opal basalt]

nah our one tank actually got tier

and i didnt

i'd be running around with 4p rn

but nope, only last 2 bosses left and no item for me

[lilac stag]

I’m sitting at 2pc, but I got my prism.

I’m also in my idgaf era

[tribal blade]

i had literally no competition with prism when i told my RL i would use it with every different rogue build i would run in raid

[warm marlin]

i lost both the cantrip H boots and mythic first boss ring to havoc since sim number was lower

love simming low

[lilac stag]

hunter wanted it for us. It was 130k sub upgrade and like a 80k assa upgrade. Hunter was 66k

[tribal blade]

daaaamn

yeah prism is big for FB sin

and massive for sub

[lilac stag]

we haven’t seen leather boots drop. Have had every other type

[warm marlin]

its ok prism in vault

or loomy dagger when we totally kill it

[tribal blade]

real question, if you have a heroic prism would you take lily from the vault

[lilac stag]

I think I’m gonna have to force 4pc for vault sims on Tuesday

[warm marlin]

why would u

[tribal blade]

i dunno, for the options

[warm marlin]

isnt H prism better than lily for both specs

[lilac stag]

I wouldn’t, but I don’t see a reason to

[tribal blade]

yeah it is i'm pretty sure

i guess this early on you wouldn't want to take option gear

[lilac stag]

did sims go back to prism ever 90 for sub?

[tribal blade]

you want equippable gear

[lilac stag]

I’m out of the loop this week so bad.

[warm marlin]

am out of the sub loop for a different reason

[lilac stag]

I though we had it at 3mins but maybe misremembering

[warm marlin]

it did sim higher using on 3mins last i saw

but its barely a difference

[tribal blade]

haha yeah i saw your sin parses

[warm marlin]

ya dont look at those

am noob

[tribal blade]

ngl FB sin is the most mega chill thing to play

[warm marlin]

fb sin is kind of a vibe

[lilac stag]

I love how this is a sub tier

[short radish]

sub amp damage

[tribal blade]

it's so easy to pay attention to mechanics play FB

[lilac stag]

has Guy had a meltdown yet?

[tribal blade]

and you can target swap freely

[lilac stag]

or we just back to rogue is fun

[tribal blade]

i was hoping for that until i looked at logs

[fleet wharf]

Sub in for both method and liquid right?

[lilac stag]

Unless they have a specific reason, that likely doesn’t affect us mortals I don’t see why they would.

their comps have enough moving parts to fit in whatever they want

except Ret

[tribal blade]

wait till reset 😉

[fallow nimbus]

But ret got a buff

[tribal blade]

buffs incoming

[limpid sage]

Does death remove prism stacks?

[tribal blade]

arms got 8%, which is big but considering how down bad they are right now isn't that much

[tribal blade]

p sure yes

[lilac stag]

8 x 0 = 0

[tribal blade]

RUE

true even

[keen dome]

I love the 4P as Sub

[tribal blade]

yeah sub is so fun with 4pc

[keen dome]

Doing 25m on a big pull in HoA felt so good

[tribal blade]

oh shit i'm watching echo's stream

perfecto is nuking the boss as sub

[tardy solar]

hold onto your hats, nerf inc

[tribal blade]

playing DS sin is cancer on that fight, so i might play sub

[keen dome]

You should play Sub because the boss is purple

You are purple

Show dominance, imo.

[tribal blade]

nah

[quasi eagle]

!cup

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[tardy solar]

not even listed 😄 sub gucci

[tribal blade]

yeah not even topping heroic on 1st week as sub lol

btw i can't stand preach

listening to him is driving me crazy

[quasi eagle]

!loot

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[random comet]

I used to really enjoy his content and I’m not sure exactly when I began to find him insufferable

[tepid trellis]

that 10sec amp window, yep we are nerfed

unlucko

[tardy solar]

rekt

[tribal blade]

that's crazy watching perfecto send a solo dance at the start

then pressing cds when the adds come out and SKYROCKETS to top

[warm marlin]

the gallywix tech

[tribal blade]

huge

[lilac stag]

what boss are they on

[shut jay]

araz

[lilac stag]

Ahh

[lusty epoch]

can someone recommend a plater profile for rogue? 🙂

[lilac stag]

Jundies or Quazii

we don’t need a specific profile

[lusty epoch]

okok thanks

[random comet]

Jundies is bis

[lilac stag]

Add or subtract whatever you feel you need from those.

[tribal blade]

not sure if it'll be possible to do that strat as sub once my guild gets to that boss

when everyone has more gear

[warm marlin]

if you time your flag properly no spec can really compete with cb sectec as they spawn

[tribal blade]

very true

[karmic raft]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[tribal blade]

oh hey is it even worth running TFD on it then if you're sending a solo dance on pull

[warm marlin]

you're pressing storm since its an aoe fight

wm sucks

[tribal blade]

mm fair point

[hollow spear]

Perfecto coming from nowhere on the meters kinda hilarious

[warm marlin]

db 10 holy moly

[hollow spear]

Sub is definitely much better in m+ than last season

[warm marlin]

better than any of my assa runs

very interesting

[hollow spear]

The new tier is a vibe

[lilac stag]

DB is so good for sub

[tribal blade]

bleed is stinker on the last boss

that doesn't help

but i feel sub for DB and streets is good

[lilac stag]

So many TFD resets

[warm marlin]

[hollow spear]

Add sniping on the 2nd boss is also very satisfying

[warm marlin]

this is rashanan

[tribal blade]

i feel most of the difficulty on the key is ST anyways

[opal basalt]

cant wait for 4p

[hollow spear]

Haha, bleed sin without funnel

[opal basalt]

really hope i'll get it next week

[tribal blade]

it's even worse, bleed sin without funnel OR execute

you stand no chance

[warm marlin]

[tribal blade]

yeah next DB and streets i'm gonna 100% play sub

playing sin in streets feels horrible

[warm marlin]

i actually have yet to even play assa in streets

[tribal blade]

on the music boss

[warm marlin]

the mark thing sounded too cringe

[tribal blade]

it's really bad

even when i go into the boss with x2 vanishes

you have to drop your mark at some point

so i use vanish on 1st add set

next add set no mark

then vanish for boss

plus the bosses with no adds on them too

streets feels like a dungeon where aoe dmg doesn't make the key, ST does

[opal basalt]

for sure

[warm marlin]

have you tried fatebound assa in there prophet

maybe its the move

[tribal blade]

i haven't! i keep hearing how FB is useless in aoe

but i could try

[warm marlin]

its bad for sure but maybe better than ds with the issues in there

[tribal blade]

at that point i would just play sub tbh

what does an aoe build for FB even look like

[warm marlin]

no idea xd

[tribal blade]

prob this

just play no garrote zeroes cleave build

[void hound]

sin in streets is pure agony

music boss you have to play the first add waves without mark, cause even when you hold DN its possible for it to expire

its not a huge deal cause those waves die fast anyways

but its still annoying

[tribal blade]

wait problem, as FB you have to use vanish during cds

so you lose a vanish charge to spread bleeds

[void hound]

menagerie boss, the big guy doesnt die either so its possible for your mark to get stuck on him too

[tribal blade]

yeah i had that problem happen

also a 5 boss dungeon

ok i tested that build on the target dummies

did sustained 9mil dps on 5 targets

although it is WAY more annoying maintaining ruptures

[steel zinc]

that is so cooked

rather play sub on cleave fights like rwf or so

[tribal blade]

haha yeah, just testing

[steel zinc]

deathstalker is just playable in m+

[tribal blade]

messing around

[steel zinc]

ya

but sub is just better on any real cleave fight this tier in raid and better in m+ if you have downtime and no funnel bosses

I think all of taza, dawnbreaker you rather play sub then fatebound assa

[tribal blade]

yeah sin doesn't feel great in those 2

[keen dome]

Streets feels a lot chiller now

Even if I played like a macaroon

[steel zinc]

also nice sub is the play rwf on aza

managing mark as sin their is not worth

like one misplay might aswell then go afk

[keen dome]

Sub stonks

[tribal blade]

yeah i lost my mark a few times on araz today

and wanted to off myself

[keen dome]

It's so silly

[tribal blade]

prob just gonna play sub for that fight

if it's like that

i'll tell my RL about sub's add dmg there

[steel zinc]

RL should know that ngl

[keen dome]

Tell him anyway

[steel zinc]

ya

[keen dome]

"Hey man look Sub is COOL AND GOOD"

Tell your whole guild, imo.

[tribal blade]

they wouldn't be surprised 😉

they all know me as a sub rogue, i've 1 tricked sub for so many tiers in my guild

[keen dome]

I bet there's many such cases

Sub rogues do seem to either be OTP or like, always trying to play Sub if there's the slightest chance.

Like Arms warriors except with the ability to count

[hollow spear]

Without the fancy graphs, arms warrios wouldn't even know how much worse they are

[cursive vapor]

a blast, still not perfect but huge improvement

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, big dam

[cursive vapor]

hyped for 4p ngl

[short radish]

4 SET FEELS SO COOL NO NAKED SYMBOLING

[warm marlin]

getting a suspicious amount of naked dances in keys tho

[warped zodiac]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[tribal blade]

i just realized you're in soma

stormrage gang

[vestal escarp]

yoo chat this 4p slaps

[void hound]

did you guys all craft dagger

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, I won’t see mythic for a while

[vestal escarp]

yeah, if i get myth dagger it's still an upgrade over the craft

[swift tinsel]

And I’m hard-prio’ing tier from vault

[hazy breach]

Rik dropped two daggers last season

So i held of

And now i regret it

But im commited to holding so

[keen dome]

2.5k done, hell yeah. Such a smooth season.

[steady dune]

for the DK fight, should i be using cleave or council?

[tribal blade]

dh?

[steady dune]

yeah

[tribal blade]

i think you legit just change out 1 talent to get replicating shadows

mm looks like some logs are running tea build too

[warm marlin]

yessir

stormrage gang

[ivory jacinth]

Do we really think Nexus King and Dimensius are sin fights? Because sub feels so great on these, everything lines up nicely. But maybe sin boss dam is just much better

[tribal blade]

i knew encervia back in the day

[void hound]

yeah cause those fights are ST mostly

[tribal blade]

not sure if you know him

[void hound]

and assa smokes on ST afaik

[tepid trellis]

nexus king id say is 50/50 both are really good

[ivory jacinth]

i guess that the damage amps with lust and prism favours sin aswell

[maiden oar]

is there a target count in m+ that you want to storm between coups outside of flag on?

[tepid trellis]

but dimensius if last phase is a dps check

[tribal blade]

the 2 top sub logs on that fight are running the sub M+ build

[tepid trellis]

you would play assa 100%

[warm marlin]

before my time

[ivory jacinth]

Yeah on Nexus King it would depend if adds damage matter no? because sin doesnt do anything here

[tepid trellis]

it does okay there as fatebound

not as much as sub does

[tribal blade]

FB seems quite good on the fight

[tepid trellis]

but it does pretty good

[tribal blade]

i was topping the meters

[ivory jacinth]

Oh okay

Maybe I'll try it then

[tepid trellis]

and assa will do more in p2 onwards

[ivory jacinth]

I though sub was just so much better at doing the adds

I did more on the titans than our arcane mage (though I have 4p and he doesnt)

[tribal blade]

this is the heroic leaderboard for nexus king

[clever delta]

I sub pumping on forge ?

[ivory jacinth]

yea but everyone always plays sin

[clever delta]

By sub i mean kush

[tribal blade]

true

but sin is hard gapping the top sub log

[ivory jacinth]

yes thats why I was wondering

[tribal blade]

although that might be high rolling as FB

[warm marlin]

idk its a bit weird since a lot of guilds probably probably progged it before much ilvl

[tribal blade]

true sub gains a lot from 4pc

[ivory jacinth]

But if everyone plays sin its no wonder their top parses are gonna be much higher since there will be like 10x more logs

[warm marlin]

i know personally I would do significantly more than i did now

[maiden oar]

yeah i killed it with a 704 dagger and everyone above.me had 720

[tribal blade]

yeah same i would do way more than when i ran sub on normal clear

[maiden oar]

if i went in now id go insane for sure

[clever delta]

I'm doing last 4 hc tonight

With 4set

I think I play assa tho

My sub gear is same good as assa one

[steady dune]

thank you

[clever delta]

But seeing kush what is he doing on forge, make me wanna play sub

[tribal blade]

it's the same with sin, you run the bleed build for that fight

[tribal blade]

there's a few fights in the raid so far i'm looking to play sub on

most notably araz

[clever delta]

I will see

[short radish]

how cooked am i if i play sub on mythic soulbinder

[clever delta]

I'm trying to keep up both specs

[tribal blade]

seems like it would be good

[clever delta]

But i dont get prism today I will just crash out

[tribal blade]

or i assume it would be good

[short radish]

0 sub rogue logs

smarter people than me must know better

[steel zinc]

Aza Talents from Perfecto

[tribal blade]

damn not a single sub log yeah

[steel zinc]

you play a mix fatebound and every fight you think you should play deathstalker assa you just play sub

[graceful crown]

4 set feels heavenly oml

[short radish]

[steel zinc]

yeah pretty feelwise a gamechager

[steel zinc]

doesnt matter you can

id play deathstalker assa their only fight tbh

[tribal blade]

this was my feeling

[hazy breach]

Dying to not getting heals in keys with prism though

[short radish]

time to get all r1 logs since there are 0 other sub rogues

[tribal blade]

except maybe soulhunters, i did really good dmg as bleed build on that fight

[steel zinc]

tbf next week first 3 are very free for most guilds

first boss is more dificult then 2nd

[tribal blade]

i kinda feel like running lily in keys is the move as sub

[hazy breach]

Nah no shot its better

[short radish]

yeah we struggled a bit

[graceful crown]

lamp.

[hazy breach]

Just dont die

[tribal blade]

maybe if you tend to be floor pov lol

raid i'm less floor pov than keys

[steel zinc]

no like prism is like another talent point you can press. Its so op and has some kinda skill expression

[clever delta]

What? I don't get it 😄

[tribal blade]

yeah true, but losing all your stacks on deaths is a big oof

[hazy breach]

When you die you lose your stacks

[clever delta]

I'm getting mythic lily in vault anyway

[steel zinc]

idk as sub dying is actually dificult

[tribal blade]

deaths are more common for rogues in keys

[clever delta]

Yeah but i never die

[tribal blade]

than raid i feel

[steel zinc]

only time as sub when I died was when my tank flopped

[steel zinc]

w00t?

sub your a tank

lit you can tank a boss

[tribal blade]

i'm talking about title range keys though

not weekly 10s

[steel zinc]

yeah still

you dont die

[hazy breach]

Ive mostly been playing assa

[tribal blade]

yeah sure

but it happens

when everything hits that hard

[hazy breach]

And i always just die to the shield mob in priory because nobody wants to go right it seems

[short radish]

going right sucks

[steel zinc]

go right idk

right is the play

[hazy breach]

Ye but pugs

[keen dome]

I'm team left

[short radish]

i hate it

[warm marlin]

its probably fine

boss is easy

and if you get good timings

assa kind op tho

[steel zinc]

if your team left you have not played the key actually on ptr or higher or read patch notes

[worthy umbra]

So which 2 trinkets should we use? Prism? and?

[hazy breach]

This time i was even in call with the healer and said "you have to link when she does her shield or im dead"

[steel zinc]

prism and a 2min trinket

[hazy breach]

He goes "oh didnt think you'd die that fast"

[steel zinc]

yeah pugs have 0 clue

[hazy breach]

Wasnt pug

[steel zinc]

ok worse then go right

[tribal blade]

that shield is a nightmare for rogues

[worthy umbra]

And then alternate both on Shadow Blades?

[hazy breach]

Either either prism+passive

Or prism+forge

[steel zinc]

you can use pvp trinket

[short radish]

because you challenged their healing capabilities

[steel zinc]

but only in m+

[short radish]

you cant just say something like that and expect them to not try outheal

[tribal blade]

prism and passive less brain thinky

more dpsy

me no like thinky too hard

[keen dome]

high5

[worthy umbra]

Ty

[tribal blade]

heroic forge dropped in raid today and i just passed on it

no point putting my name in for it when for others it's hard bis

[swift tinsel]

yeah I'm taking it if it pops up in vault after I've gotten prism+sigil/antenna

[tribal blade]

i've honestly already filled out the most important bis items from raid already

[swift tinsel]

and even then I'm not picking it over something else unless I'm kitted

[tribal blade]

in week 1

good feeling

[swift tinsel]

ye saw you locked in both boots and hero prism, nice haul last night

[signal moth]

How are my little subbies doing?

How is the spec?

fun?

[tribal blade]

very fun with 4pc

[swift tinsel]

the most fun

[signal moth]

I want to try it seriously but I am poop at it and feel like grieving my entire team lol

[cursive vapor]

I really enjoy it as always

[signal moth]

how is damage profile outside of CDs? ST good in m+ build?

Reckon itll overtake sin?

[tribal blade]

the ST is much better than sin in M+ build

sin can only compete when you get funnel

[spice lichen]

I really wanted to keep playing sub but I legit wasn’t getting invited in lfg lmao
First key I queued for swapping to sin insta invite

[short radish]

just swap back before key

[spice lichen]

Season 2 bfa vibes huh

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[spice lichen]

Give em the ol outlaw until timer move

[tulip gorge]

I just tried sub with the new tier for the first time in m+

and it's so fucking sick

I love it

[spice lichen]

See I was 2p when I was still sub

Maybe I should swap all of my crit back over to vers and lock in

Maybe I was mistaken
So we are using coup still even on 4+ targets?

[leaden prairie]

you bp in 4 targets ?

no wae

[tulip gorge]

pin says +4 targets

[leaden prairie]

ye nvm

i was looking at my sim on 4 target

[swift tinsel]

BP buffs do be stinky

[leaden prairie]

and its doing bp damage

but it does like

7 bp

in the whole sim

[swift tinsel]

yep you still coup in aoe esp with 4pc

[leaden prairie]

bruh i need comments in the sub apl

@hazy breach is there a secret sub apl thats commented like the outalw one

[warm marlin]

confused noob?

[leaden prairie]

ye

[warm marlin]

point and laugh

[tribal blade]

i could never laugh at tom elvis

[karmic harbor]

where do you read the apl?

[swift tinsel]

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/thewarwithin/ActionPriorityLists/default/rogue_subtlety.simc

[leaden prairie]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[karmic harbor]

tyty

[leaden prairie]

np

[next otter]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[still quartz]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[swift tinsel]

there's also https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1065728795455266888

[warm marlin]

sub looking kind of juicy on forge 👀