The amp is what like 15 sec
#subtlety
left ledge
rapid forum
Gear is not the issue
left ledge
So it’s perfect for sub
For the spider
The whole phase is amp
So you’ll do the most the first 15 sec in cds
But then you do nothing
rapid forum
Ye but even during blade I had not chance to catch up
left ledge
Yeah I mean sadly you need fucking exodia for sub just to be subpar
We saw this coming a mile away tbf
rapid forum
It's giving me depression tbh
left ledge
Or at least I said so when people kept saying AMPS AMPS AMPS
rapid forum
I'm usually outlaw otp
But
Swapping to sin or law now
Doesn't seem that great either
Like their performance isn't that much better
left ledge
Yeah the gameplay is kinda ass
rapid forum
And idk why
But
All 3 speccs
Feel trash to play rn
None of them are fun to me anymore
left ledge
I mean sin does pretty good on some fights
rapid forum
So clunky
keen dome
Soulbinder Naazindhri
rapid forum
I'm crying myself to sleep rn
graceful osprey
Sub is garbonzo in the new raid?
rapid forum
Performance avg or worse
left ledge
But this problem has plagued sub for a while with people chiming in to say SUB CRAAAZY when it is looking like wet dogshit
rapid forum
Na im talking all specc tbh
left ledge
At least I don’t have to play winning streak
rapid forum
I'm not having a great time with any of the rogs rn
left ledge
Idk much about outlaw tbh
I just know at least sin is competitive
Like you’ll be on the meters with sin
At least on some fights
rapid forum
In keys
hazy breach
Wdym
rapid forum
But in raid sin isn't great either is it
hazy breach
Assa is insanely OP keys
left ledge
Idk fb sin is doing fine for me in raids
hazy breach
And sub is good too
warm marlin
sin is very strong in raid too
left ledge
It’s not like amazing
Like top dog
But it’s good I’d say
Yeah sub in keys feels better
swift tinsel
Lol I'm W-ing my way to top dmg as sin in keys with like
rapid forum
But do I just swap to sin then
alpine wraith
sub is fine if you have weapon crafted prism and 4 set
keen dome
Lol I'm W-ing my way to top dmg as sin in keys with like
Yeah, it's insane
alpine wraith
kek
left ledge
Before anyone else has those yeah
alpine wraith
forget the lock with voidcore
left ledge
Week 1 hype
alpine wraith
does 600k more dps
swift tinsel
I'm just 2pc gaming atm and its still blasting to the moon
left ledge
I haven’t played sin in keys yet
swift tinsel
sub a bit less so but still fun
keen dome
I timed two keys as Assa this evening and did like, considerably more damage as i would've as Sub. It's SAD.
I demand more purple
left ledge
I kinda don’t like how trickster plays with bp though
keen dome
sub feels omega strong in db tho
Ye. I've found it better in Ara, too.
left ledge
It feels kind of ass
keen dome
I kinda feel it'll be real good in Eco dome too?
swift tinsel
it can pad well on first boss
second I haven't gotten a good feel for yet, only ran it a couple times on not big keys
hoping to hit 8-10's this weekend
keen dome
I'm only sticking with it for this week until I go back to Sub. I'm playing with a few very good people and I don't want to let them down haha
swift tinsel
ye did a handful as ele/fdk/sub-sin last night and felt good
left ledge
Thing with sin is it just always does infinite damage in packs
swift tinsel
feels like count went way up
flat marsh
hey im completely new to subt... not sure if i understand the guide correctly
for non shadow blade shadow dance, we SS twice into finisher if its only giving us 5 CP?
unique nest
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
swift tinsel
like in halls I don't remember having to pull as much as we did back in SL
same with flood
keen dome
Yeah, Halls feels like it has wya more
Ara needs more. Flood feels the same to me, not sure.
Pirory is kinda funny and weird with count
swift tinsel
we ended up doing the usual SL route but had to clear the whole top area and more of the bottom by halkias after last boss
keen dome
I really don't like Halls
left ledge
hey im completely new to subt... not sure if i understand the guide correctly
fo...
You follow the cp and builder prio rules
swift tinsel
yeah I liked the old version better
swift tinsel
was really hyped to see it come back but less so after running it a few times
left ledge
Although you can also just hit evis if it’s a normal evis
keen dome
I just don't really like the SL dungeons in general. They feel less tightly designed compared to more recent ones? I'm not sure.
left ledge
It’s a very tiny optimization
warm marlin
Ye. I've found it better in Ara, too.
ara has too much funnel on bosses
pliant topaz
I don’t know why
shhhh youre gonna get guy come in here losing it again SUB TIER SUB TIER SUB TIER AMP GO BRRR
left ledge
There are nuances with your ub too
keen dome
ara has too much funnel on bosses
Oh that's a really good point, yeah.
lucid jackal
sin is very strong in raid too
its probably the best melee dps not even cap
I think its actually better than FDK
keen dome
https://tenor.com/view/wizard-im-a-wizard-im-a-fucking-wizard-gif-44246757611253...
Cast a spell on sub please
lucid jackal
ya sub tuned too low overall, unlucky
pliant topaz
Cast a spell on sub please
hope spec gets deleted so my pookie stealthi gets free
flat marsh
You would unfortunately strike again
thanks just wanted to make sure im understanding correctly cause it feels very cringe to do, i guess its numerically more
keen dome
hope spec gets deleted so my pookie stealthi gets free
that's a curse!!!
left ledge
pliant topaz
And complained about it
bro thinks that does something
keen dome
A casual 5% to... BP!!!
left ledge
bro thinks that does something
swift tinsel
according to whatshisname all it takes is a pin in discord to get dev attention
swift tinsel
someone in sin channel I cba to remember
bleak night
lmao that part was funny
keen dome
Just make a pin going "Please buff us we've been very good this season"
bleak night
fuck pins bring out the everyone pings
when is sub going to everyone ping people to go brigade the devs
left ledge
That’s how you go into slow mode
bleak night
pull a dk
pliant topaz
idk why u think we crying here does anything
keen dome
Midnight reveal on 19th. They'll have a panel about Sub rogue and how cool we are.
pliant topaz
the last time our voice had a meaningful impact was probably df s3 beta.
fleet wharf
when is sub going to everyone ping people to go brigade the devs
And all 12 of us will go mssg mods
pliant topaz
and that was with interaction with shadowcraft and the refund mechanic
keen dome
And all 12 of us will go mssg mods
too much effot
bright sundial
hi guys where can I post my logs, been trying to play sub but maybe im doing something wrong?
chrome palm
does 600k more dps
Lock in my guild sent me his sim which is 1.4 mil higher than mine
bleak night
idk why u think we crying here does anything
nobody thinks its does anything
its just a collective catharsis for sub players
keen dome
nobody thinks its does anything
If I keep mentioning a poison toggle, it's gonna happen eventually.
bleak night
true and real
warm marlin
i am starting to have my doubts about sub buffs though. performing a bit too well on the add fights despite the st situation
pliant topaz
dontfeedthebird log review
lilac stag
It’s almost like the ST Sims have just a tiny bit of relevance.
swift tinsel
ye I don't see us getting any
purely throwing out cope
plus Sin the Darling Rogue Spec is blasting
keen dome
I think we'll get something after the race is done. maybe closer to 11.2.5 but at the same time Remix and shit, it's S3.
pliant topaz
its just a collective catharsis for sub players
more like how u make yourself miserable.
warm marlin
although there is this as the best st metric 
chrome palm
Will have to see when people are actually progging mythic
lilac stag
Said it last tier. said it again. I’m just a doomer. 
bleak night
more like how u make yourself miserable.
i wouldnt know i dont identify as a sub player
swift tinsel
although there is this as the best st metric <:stemDespair:958757951542263818>
inb4 buffing fire mage, ret, and aug
bleak night
i just exist in this discord to shitpost
lilac stag
i just exist in this discord to shitpost
I love you for it.
keen dome
I'm just happy people like to play rogue
bleak night
and be just helpful enough that i dont get kicked
runic trail
its just a collective catharsis for sub players
Sub rogue support group let's go
keen dome
Sub rogue support group let's go
Purple Pals
high eagle
On LE's weak auras, what does the little mini dance and symbols icons mean? testing on a target dummy
keen dome
(I have no ideaif this has bad connotations)
pliant topaz
and be just helpful enough that i dont get kicked
fuck it download league
we ball
o7
bleak night
im still detoxing
swift tinsel
On LE's weak auras, what does the little mini dance and symbols icons mean? test...
estimated charges you'll have for next flag
bleak night
maybe soon though
high eagle
estimated charges you'll have for next flag
Ah, cool.
pliant topaz
thats the estimated charges for your next flag, but its very hard to use and is very context dependant
lilac stag
I’ve been trialing my doggo. Are we all on the doom train now? Is there enough data?
fleet wharf
although there is this as the best st metric <:stemDespair:958757951542263818>
Gawd damn, feral is top 2 now?
pliant topaz
im still detoxing
fuck thsat. detoxing from what? games a banger. they finally nerfed all the disgusitng ad jungler bruisers and bs melee supports
pliant topaz
time to q up, find an egirl enchanter player and climb
lilac stag
Gapped by 1/2 an assa rogue with a furry complex
bleak night
fleet wharf
Thats how many dances and symbols youll have by the time flag comes off cd
hollow spear
although there is this as the best st metric <:stemDespair:958757951542263818>
Outlaw tier confirmed
Should have not crafted my dagger, god damn it
undone mesa
!MACRO
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
undone mesa
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
graceful osprey
although there is this as the best st metric <:stemDespair:958757951542263818>
Jeezus holy is this real?
hollow spear
I'm rooting for our cat friends ngl
graceful osprey
Maybe sub rogue is becoming the new support class in midnight like augmentation. Blizzard is just preparing us
alpine wraith
likely they gave prism to other specs
unless they really love the rogue
instead of telling them to go assa
slate marlin
although there is this as the best st metric <:stemDespair:958757951542263818>
wow its that bad? wtf
is it good in m+ tho?
hollow spear
Prism is almost the same dps increase for my sin as for my sub
graceful osprey
I can’t wait to see another BP buff in 11.2.5
keen dome
Maybe it'll be a 11.25% buff
placid scaffold
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fleet wharf
In all honesty though, will there be any significant balance tuning between now end end of rwf?
hollow spear
Don't think so
And since our aoe is kinda intrinsically tied to our st, I'm not sure we'll get too much help after rwf
Let's see
fleet wharf
So rangestack meta, yay
fleet wharf
And since our aoe is kinda intrinsically tied to our st, I'm not sure we'll get ...
Maybe st buffs and bp nerfs
Lmao, like theyd ever nerf bp
wintry dove
this new 4 set in keys is actually like playing a new game
alpine wraith
yea must be very big
wintry dove
I've seen my flawless form reach 31 stacks
bright sundial
must be nice our fdk got 4 set and lets say the dmg is leggit a cliff 
wintry dove
I didn't get any tokens from main raid, have 4 set with vault/lfr token/2 cata charges
swift tinsel
soonTM I will 4pc
just need 1 token from raid tonight and 800 rating for ksm catalyst
got champ pieces I can catalyze but I'd prefer hero/myth
also how are sub timings on dimensius, are the annoying or pretty straightforward
vale pine
think thats the correct version
gaunt bluff
strange chasm
Sub is just god awful in m+ too lol
wintry dove
it's not the top, but I don't think it's awful
strange chasm
It feels so insanely bad. You don't even gap classes on st they just do more than you
wintry dove
I'm spamming floodgate rn and averaging around 6.5 mil overall
idle aurora
My demonology friend effing dumpstered me last night
vale pine
Sub is just god awful in m+ too lol
its good
but its not assassination
tho assassiantion is completely insane
maiden oar
i feel like i suck at sin in m+ i do about the same on sub
im like top overall but barely and with sin it should be not eben close
top overall barely on sub feels good though
swift tinsel
idk I feel like I crank as sub
warm marlin
sin m+ is a bit deceptively hard
swift tinsel
obv sin better
warm marlin
especially when its a 2 button spec in raid
swift tinsel
ye its more to keep track of
maiden oar
bleed makes no sense to me
maiden oar
the 5 ruptures imto caustic build feels so much easier
swift tinsel
ye once I got better at paying attention and played more into the bleed/funnel part my dmg skyrocketed
maiden oar
every key i did today looked like this though
yeah it should look more like that
im like 700k on top
which is low i need to figure out what im doing wrong
warm marlin
if you play with equally geared and skilled players 700k above good specs is probably alright
i did an eco before 4set/lily today with a good ele who i only beat by like 800k
maiden oar
if you play with equally geared and skilled players 700k above good specs is pro...
sometimes good players but less geared
sometimes both
maiden oar
but i do think im inting on bleed somehow maybe i just find ptr vods of casualaddict
and see what he does
i think no garrote build is unironically easier for me
strange chasm
its good
idk I feel like im doing just as much ST with bleed ass build
Maybe the tea sub build just isnt good?
maiden oar
i feel like sub st is stronger without funnel monsters
fallow nimbus
I have like 20% crit with tea build and putting 1 point into rotten feels nicer
But i got a 3rd dagger and pacemaker so i can try jo rotten that with crit weapon enchant
tepid trellis
every key i did today looked like this though
imagine if i had buffs
also im playing like shit, im on like 3 hours of sleep avg the last 3 days
hazy breach
Yeeee sub is unironically really strong in keys, its just overshadowed by assa being massively overpowered
solemn lodge
is there a decent sub guide VIDEO? im too stupid to read
haughty mural
bro what is this ?
iron plover
!loot
wicked joltBOT
warm marlin
did like 6 streets/db in a row day 1 and now they are nowhere to be found
haughty mural
arent we supposed to be the finisher spec ?
haughty mural
on momma 
tepid trellis
alpine wraith
what a blaster
hazy breach
Just send to 704
warm marlin
boots gap
hazy breach
Youll be out of need for runed next week anyway
haughty mural
raccoon is cracked
alpine wraith
ye next week you cap runed
wintry dove
I still have raid tonight, hopeful on getting netherprism
also peep my completely mismatched mog since I just changed everything
fallen crescent
!gear
alpine wraith
this people
wicked joltBOT
alpine wraith
make me feel bad about 0 set and no prism
wait rolf they nerfed ulduar trinks
for real
swift tinsel
also supposedly giving more delvers journey rep for maps
blue post def makes it sound like an ass-covering move and there wern't issues beyond them gating it and giving baby progress
"we definitely didn't hamper your progress on purpose and are definitely not reversing that after getting called out"
maiden oar
i wanna craft a dagger so bad but im not allowed until next tues
warm marlin
chances are low i roll it in vault and we pushing mythic a bit early this tier
maiden oar
maiden oar
2x loomithar knives for sure
warm marlin
i will prob 6/6 my other trinket next week
hazy breach
Ye just loot mythic antenna 
chrome palm
damn wtf
chrome palm
if i 6/6 my trinket my gm would crucify me i think
warm marlin
also pushing gear for tazavesh hm
warm marlin
if i 6/6 my trinket my gm would crucify me i think
my guild is pretty hands off
my thinking for lily is that the crests are only wasted if i get M lily or H prism and H prism i wont be too upset upgrading my other trinket slot for discount
trinket slot good to upgrade idk
wet robin
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
chrome palm
I was always crest starved last season
I was going to wait until loomithar to craft a dagger, unless it is just THAT hard to kill
alpine wraith
it is tightly tuned unless you have plenty of 4 sets/high ilvl
haughty mural
You’ll give hc prism to other specs anyway if things stay like that right now
Why not just slam 6/6 lily
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lucid jackal
idk cuh im not getting prism anyway
warm marlin
fk u
lucid jackal
short radish
fk u
haughty mural
Agreed
kind bluff
!weak aura
short radish
!wa
wicked joltBOT
kind bluff
ty
short radish
no wokkas
haughty mural
Damn
haughty mural
redeemed myself on heroic though
Yea that I saw
short radish
im really hating dimensius though
such a fucking pain to play
the hitbox is so small
gallywix sends his regards or something
we were spoilt
deep ferry
Idk guys, does the new tset feel slower to play than the last? I might have schizophrenia but it feels off somehow
haughty mural
I also complained about the hitbox
karmic dagger
!wa
wicked joltBOT
haughty mural
Idk guys, does the new tset feel slower to play than the last? I might have schi...
Should be the opposite tbh
Since you’ll get more cdr
hazy breach
Shouldnt really be a noticeable amount of cdr though
haughty mural
That’s true
hazy breach
On average sim gets one extra dance every 10 minutes
haughty mural
But shouldn’t feel slower
tribal blade
yo can replace disc belt already
nice
no more watching it proc at the very end of pulls
lilac pendant
So, I have Perfidious Projector trinkets how the fuck should i use it
simming it says its better than my arara eggsack
lucid jackal
@warm marlin dude
dimensius might be a sub fight
all the downtime is legit an upside for sub
short radish
sub is the best prog spec after all
warm marlin
dimensius might be a sub fight <:garf:1320173032743899157>
idk
90s timings are definitely good on heroic
but spatter is just cranking these adds
and you kinda need to farm dance cdr no
lucid jackal
The adads on heroic r kinda fake
idk, the flying legit feels like an upside for sub
Cuz it farms ur CDs for u
warm marlin
we are presently wiping to p2 adds
lucid jackal
hollow forum
!loot
wicked joltBOT
short radish
we are presently wiping to p2 adds <:garf:1320173032743899157>
same
which adds are the middle adds?
idle aurora
There needs to be some sort of randomizer that can tell me what spec to play
I did get champ prism from time walking so that’s neat
Personal loot……the best thing from shadowlands
swift tinsel
so we spam shuriken storm between all coups?
pretty much, unless you get a shadowcraft refund
hoary sun
How the heck are we supposed to get fw up on aoe whitout the rotten my shuriken stroms arent critting!!!!!
short radish
just crit
hoary sun
It lowkey feels better
But the robot says it's worse so me listen to robot because i'm a bot
hoary sun
But then the vibe is checked when i see i have 1 fw up on like 8 targets
short radish
dont track just vibe
short radish
dps 
vps 
bleak wind
now that fatebound assa is a thing, was there a fix for the 'spell not learned' bug with cold blood?
idle aurora
lol
short radish
seriously though
dont worry about FW
gameplay loop is same as s2
unless you have 4p i guess
then you do one minor modification
dusk stone
Just take the rotten
short radish
or that
dusk stone
I thought it was insane to suggest not use the rotten in m+
short radish
honestly my feelcraft says taking inev + rotten is better anyway
dusk stone
It's work to get fw up when you have it sometimes
short radish
because ST feels ass without inev
dusk stone
Without it, you are just a better fatebound sin
indigo steppe
in shadow dance if im on 2nd supercharged CP and I have coup do i use that or sectech?
short radish
sectech
swift tinsel
ye always supercharge sectech
indigo steppe
thanks fellers
tall girder
honestly my feelcraft says taking inev + rotten is better anyway
Based feelycraft enjoyer 
short radish
wooooo jontic!
tall girder
Woooo fimb!!!
lucid jackal
@warm marlin
warm marlin
we killed intermission adds too fast on kill
kb just came up as it ended
every time
and my game froze in p3 and i died
azure mauve
!gear
wicked joltBOT
warm depot
hmmm ok
dry belfry
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
bright sundial
question how do I stop my self from drinking tea like being under 30 energy, do I have to pool?
steel horizon
yeah sucks you cant disable the under 30 energy thing
bright sundial
well i use cold blood untill today and everytime im out of cds i drink one just wondering if theres a way to not get to 30 while out of cds yk
hidden basin
hows sub in m+
civic swallow
Guild isn't able to invite me to raid, is there a workaround? Says pending referral invite
lilac pendant
relog
steel horizon
man i love not being able to use step on dimensius
rose vault
does anyone have time to explain to me why my damage is shii in keys
short radish
man i love not being able to use step on dimensius
wym? you can step dimensius
steel horizon
wym? you can step dimensius
teleports you to the front of the boss like very far away from your side
lilac stag
@tepid trellis @warm marlin prism check
warm marlin
down tremendous
short radish
teleports you to the front of the boss like very far away from your side
yeah just walk back
strange chasm
What build you guys playing in keys
short radish
short radish
guild just gave my prism to a monk
short radish
rogues just garbo damage on the sims sheet
chrome palm
because fractillus is the most important boss in the raid
short radish
and sims are the only thing that matters
swift tinsel
is shadowstrike supposed to teleport you into dimensius during the vuln phase and insta-kill you
steel horizon
yeah just walk back
tanks yell at me when im beside them lool
swift tinsel
because shadowstrike just teleported me into dimensius and insta-killed me
bleak night
lmao
bleak night
its ok on our kill i didnt realize you got knocked back if you were near the tank in p3
and got booped into him
ripe flame
because shadowstrike just teleported me into dimensius and insta-killed me
at least you are not this guy
short radish
swift tinsel
never gonna vanish-strike him again
dusty galleon
anyone got a M+ build for sub rogue wanna try a few things out and the one im running feels like it could be doing way more
dusk stone
is shadowstrike supposed to teleport you into dimensius during the vuln phase an...
No it's not called 'shadow strike' it's called the yeeted and deleted button
tall girder
Pain
dusk stone
Is this mythic?
warm marlin
yes
bleak night
6 pulls lmfao
fleet wharf
Grats
dusk stone
Liquid still doing splits
civic lake
Cursed Stone Idol, good or bad. conflicting info on wowhead and bloodmallet lol
short radish
<:omegalul:360538346780622849>
why sin?
warm marlin
i plead the fifth
warm marlin
if you want a real answer the fight has a good mix of low target and high target burst cleave and i wanted to be able to do both without going rotten or anything
and i didnt prep sub timings at all
bleak night
yeah i mean that fight has to be goated for assa
even without it being overtuned
until adds start dying insta anyway
warm marlin
also just free funnel for assa so you do infinite boss dmg
indigo steppe
I got netherprism and warbound ritual forge
short radish
indigo steppe
I think I used all my luck this tier
short radish
i dont wanna play sin
spice matrix
<@96834520417828864> plexus <:garf:1320173032743899157>
gg man its a sin tier
warm marlin
you can play sub on plexus, the main thing is bursting the shields approx. every 90s. assa can just do that as fatebound and do more damage to boss between
sub might also be the move on loomithar if the tangles are as hard to kill as they are rn
maiden oar
i got robbed by secret technique range thing on nexus king im so sad
i should start logging
lilac stag
its so jover sub bros
It never started. 
fringe geyser
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
short radish
It never started. <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
it acutally feels good in m+ though
but im too scared to try assi and see how much better it still is
dusk stone
Someone here got 40mil on a trash pack with prism as sub
dusk stone
It's not that good
dusk stone
That's when sub was actually viable
bleak night
we'll see
dusk stone
No I mean why people say assi get stomped into ground when other stuff is just as good
bleak night
well other stuff is also going to get stomped into the ground
dusk stone
Like is DS actually cooking or is it just fb sin
bleak night
fb looks very strong
and the fights you play ds its also very good
like soulbinder
dusk stone
Ds Sims behind sub so I was wondering
dusk stone
Yeah ofc I was just wondering as I don't often play it myself
bleak night
like soulbinder you get infinite cleave and funnel
kinda same with araz but the intermissions are garbage
then you just go bleed build for soul hunters
dusk stone
In a proper world yeah sounds like sin would get nerfed yeah
But we went all patch in s2 with nothing
Weeks before s3 we got 5% aura that's it
On a different note does anyone have confirmation if the leaver system is working at all
Reddit says no
bleak night
well assa wasnt remotely op in raid s2 so yeah of course not
and certainly wasnt as good in m+ as it is now
dusk stone
I dunno but I am also pretty jaded after last patch
I get my 4pc tonight, we will see how sub is after that
cursive vapor
So is sub only popping with the 4pc?
2p is also very strong, but 4p asap 👌🏻
daring raptor
i just got 2p and on sim i got 500k dps increase
will get 4p when some hands from m+ can drop at some point
dapper jasper
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
dusk stone
So is sub only popping with the 4pc?
S2 4pc and S3 2pc is about the same. S3 4pc is about 17% more
I honestly don't know how sub is for keys atm too early
young roost
Was gonna try been playing bleed build...saw the Sims for sub are quite a bit higher
tepid trellis
dslice sims =/= m+ dmg, assa will do more dmg in keys
young roost
Yeah I played sub pretty exclusively up until last season
dusk stone
However we do get streets of wonder, maybe FG and then also dawnbreaker as sub keys this season
young roost
Was thinking about returning but if you guys feels assa is better I might just stay assa for now
dusk stone
Sub is better this season for sure
dense geode
anyone elses CB macro break
keen dome
anyone elses CB macro break
Have you been playing FB assa? If so: it probably broke 'cos of that.
Just relog and it'll be fix itself
dense geode
Have you been playing FB assa? If so: it probably broke 'cos of that.
wth lmao
thats how it works thats insane
celest light
Long time stabber, first time thinker, I wanted to ask if sub is supposed to do insane damage on adds in M+ but then fall off in ST bosses
keen dome
It's been a bug for a while but this is the first season people have been playing FB haha
dense geode
It's been a bug for a while but this is the first season people have been playin...
ty
keen dome
!cbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
celest light
I was running the build and rotation that's on Icy Veins and I'm still struggling a bit with nailing the rotation perfectly, but with shadow technique I know I do insane cleave damage. I just feel like I don't specialize in single target like I thought I was supposed to
young roost
Unfortunate
spring elm
Why do we press backstab -> sectec after dance instead of backstab -> evis -> ss -> sectec
tepid trellis
to get sectech on cd and to rotate out more coups
rapid forum
I think so that sec tech is ready for 2nd dance
dusk stone
Long time stabber, first time thinker, I wanted to ask if sub is supposed to do ...
Post a log so we can look. But your single target should be good
celest light
I wasn't running logs, just the damage tracker, but I'll bring some logs next time
dusk stone
Have a screenshot of the damage meter?
celest light
I do not
scarlet radish
!wa
wicked joltBOT
misty olive
how is sub rogue in pvp this season?
short radish
fuu should close the sub discord channel so we get some buffs
tepid trellis
lmfao
keen dome
lmao
bleak night
holy fuck
short radish
short radish
sorry should have left the chat bit in
keen dome
Incredible
keen dome
The most ineffective protest that will only annoy people trying to find info
keen dome
Incredibly cringe
bleak night
oh its insanely cringe
bleak night
like absolutely fucking horrific
spring elm
Ret players always fit the stereotype ♿
rapid forum
some real protag syndrome going it
I mean rets are the protagonists of wow right after mages no? Makes sense to me
keen dome
No, people in wheelchairs have to overcome adversity and daily challenges. That's not fair.
trail glen
How many targets need to be in an aoe pull in order to press shuriken storm? (with the new 4pc)
tepid trellis
How many targets need to be in an aoe pull in order to press shuriken storm? (wi...
in dance never, outside of dance at like 3
keen dome
flabbergasted that this is a thing that has happened
Same. It's so pathetic
Blizz should nerf ret more
short radish
they left this channel up though
rapid forum
Ret priorities
bleak night
honestly thats the most important one
so im fine with it
actually i should go help
rapid forum
They don't need a channel for questions anyway with how basic the specc is
keen dome
Needs more clown emojis being posted at them.
vale pine
Maybe the tea sub build just isnt good?
use cold blood instead then
vale pine
imagine if i had buffs
nicuuu
scarlet radish
fuu should close the sub discord channel so we get some buffs
imagine the outrage if they got out dps'd by aug evokers like sub did last tier
bloody sooks
short radish
I LOVE HAVING DETAILS BEING ABSOLUTELY USELESS WITH AN AUG IN THE RAID
assi tier again?
vale pine
mythic+ for sure
lone linden
this doesnt look great yeah
bleak night
fuck time to lock the channel
bleak night
the class discord degeneracy arms race has gone too far
surely
how do we escalate from here
vale pine
i mean as stupid as it sounds
but the spread between rogue specs on wcl is about what we see on the spreadsheet
bleak night
i mean fract is about as close as we're gonna get to a 5m patchwerk sim
warm marlin
lone linden
yeah, thats why i chose that one
bleak night
that boss does absolutely nothing on heroic lmao
warm marlin
the most accurate 5min patchwerk sim boss of recent years
vale pine
tho also expected
rogue was not buffed insanely, while underperforming in raid testing
sin remains dominant tuned in m+, which is by now the standard expectation
i guess sub needs an aoe rework too ^^
warm marlin
here's what kind of surprises me:
sub was alright in LOU at the end, maybe middle of the pack or slightly lower
the changes it got: 5% aura buff, very strong tier set, much better trinket option
so what exactly was the cause of being so poorly tuned
vale pine
so it can have a xpac of mythic+ dominance
tepid trellis
my assa sim is 1.2 mil higher than my sub sim 
warm marlin
just power creep of everything else getting its 4th rework and getting huge buffs (like ele?)
tepid trellis
https://tenor.com/view/crazy-cat-cat-gatito-crazy-insane-gif-4445261359056491120
almost done with my m+ farm
5 more items to go 
vagrant sinew
come trade me trinkets
tepid trellis
rapid forum
just looked at our fractilus log and saw this
I parsed 100 on frac HC and am 8th in our raid
Look
What the helli is this
short radish
I parsed 100 on frac HC and am 8th in our raid
same lol, well was 100 when we killed ytd
winter ice
It’s week 1 I wouldn’t put any stock in any log number
short radish
oh well it's fine
rapid forum
I know
short radish
we'll get buffed week 10
keen dome
we'll get buffed week 10
Only if we lock the channel, duh
short radish
8th as well 
rapid forum
Brother in arms
short radish
🤝
rapid forum
Also a green lock almost getting you
short radish
you know what the funniest thing about this log is? the hunter topping everyone was a helper for loot
rapid forum
Lmao
rocky ocean
short radish
fuck man do i just give up and join everyone else playing assi
maiden oar
some real protag syndrome going it
that is insane
short radish
i didnt expect it to be this bad
maiden oar
i thought it was a bit
rapid forum
I'll swap to either sin or law next id yes
I don't enjoy sub enough to torture me with this dog
short radish
subs just so comfy since i can rest my hands inbetween cooldowns
rapid forum
I usually prefer law anyway
Prob what I play better as well
But I felt like I would grief my group if I went outlaw as comfy pick because no burst/uptime dependant
short radish
the copium was that on damage amp fights it'd be better
but like
and granted its w1 logs
but only fight sub is winning on is dimensius
which probably has like 5 logs or something
rocky ocean
I like how expac about hero talents completely failed to balance those hero talents
dusk stone
fuu should close the sub discord channel so we get some buffs
i legitimately said that ret paladin is essentially just a race to the bottom
the other day
its just the mentality of nepotism more or less tbh
rapid forum
I like how expac about hero talents completely failed to balance those hero tale...
I really cope they just delete hero talenta
Give some cosmetic stuff idgaf
short radish
I like how expac about hero talents completely failed to balance those hero tale...
im pretty sure everyone saw this coming
that they wouldnt be able to balance shit
rocky ocean
Yes, they should bring covenants or something
keen dome
If they delete hero talents, they bake them into the specs and it's a cointoss which spec gets what
rapid forum
But hero talents impacting performance and gameplay is just bad imo
keen dome
this is how we get DS baked in
short radish
since they've basically doubled the amount of specs in the game
maiden oar
If they delete hero talents, they bake them into the specs and it's a cointoss w...
cointoss?
fatebound???
rapid forum
Sub fatebound
maiden oar
wahoo!!!!
wary plover
!gear
wicked joltBOT
rapid forum
Binary specc
spring elm
Damn I thought sub would be close to the other specs with 4 pc
tepid trellis
i remember parsing 100 on sire denathrius, and i was 2nd last 
short radish
bleak night
stay strong brothers
tepid trellis
what you reckon the odds are on another 5% aura buff for sub
65% after rwf is over
short radish
how many of us left are there
tepid trellis
thats one hell of a coup proc
short radish
??????
warm marlin
how many of us left are there
ill come back home on farm/when sub gets buffed
tepid trellis
??????
its big momma in flood
just remember seeing some high crits last night
so went into logs to look
short radish
oh
i can never tell how to play that
whether its worth to just send off cd
or save flag for amp
short radish
every time i do off cd, its never up for amp
warm marlin
idk if you cast on adds you kill them faster and get more dmg amp uptime
i hold if its close but i send on pull if its up
short radish
yeah its 100% damage amp but then also its 4 adds so damage is same same?
short radish
yeeeesh
warm marlin
yeah its 100% damage amp but then also its 4 adds so damage is same same?
boss damage is better
tepid trellis
26*
chrome palm
Boss damage might be the angle with longer time between shields
tepid trellis
misty condor
!bug
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
runic sequoia
i feel dumb asking this but does this mean black powder at 2 targets if form isnt up, but always black powder at 3 or more
short radish
which one of you is this
bleak night
dainty little ret hands lmfao
lilac stag
assi tier again?
DONT WORRY DAMAGE AMPS WILL MAKE SUB GREAT 
short radish
that was the biggest copium last week
bleak night
i dont think it was copium, people just underestimated how poor the tuning was
keen dome
It can be both
lilac stag
shocking once again out ST sims suck and we suck in raid
keen dome
I should play FB for heroic, I guess..
short radish
i dont think it was copium, people just underestimated how poor the tuning was
well we're not the only class that does burst damage
and the damage amp wasnt tuned to happen every 1.5 minutes
bleak night
yeah i dont think anyone was saying they would make sub turbo meta compared to those specs
just that it would be enough to make it good
clearly that was wrong
keen dome
Maybe we are just cursed to be bad (for the first prog tier in a while)
lilac stag
clearly it was just scath being a doomer
bleak night
i mean this is looking like amirdrassil 2 electric boogaloo to me
lilac stag
Lulz
bleak night
so keep up the sandbagging campaign and a bright future awaits
keen dome
I'm doing my part by being terrible
lilac stag
bleak night
ngl though i did sub on plexus and immediately swapped to assa for the rest of heroic
frigid prawn
!marcos
lilac stag
assa it is
frigid prawn
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
keen dome
At least Fatebound looks very comfy to just push buttons on
Can focus on mechanics and glaring at people
lilac stag
and get triggered when your coin Rng is shit
livid rapids
!tier
wicked joltBOT
Tier set:
Best Slots: Head, Chest, Hands, Legs
Strength: 2p (~10% dps) | 4p (~20% dps) -> Combined: ~30%.
Note: Try to get the 4set asap.
bleak night
meanwhile playing deathstalker on araz causes enough mental anguish to send men to the asylum
lilac stag
But understand even with bad rng you are doing more than a sub rogue.
keen dome
and get triggered when your coin Rng is shit
isn't pug raiding the ultimate rng
i can't get triggered by rng
livid rapids
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
that’s just an insanity check
keen dome
I told a Boomie how to do the mechanic on Loom'ithar normal, and he immediately runs into the web ring and dies.
lilac stag
Rng would be Russian roulette
bleak night
yeah you have enough mental anguish from raidleading pugs nothing can hurt you
rng or anything else
keen dome
Still reeling on Plexus
5 classes with heroism. Nobody pushing it until 17%.
multiple RW, multiple mentions before pull.
lilac stag
saving for execute dmg
keen dome
Ye, it's in general too
keen dome
I guess it's one way to go viral
knotty depot
I'd like to thank you all for your sub teachings 🙇♂️
first time I managed something this good
runic trail
rapid forum
I'd like to thank you all for your sub teachings 🙇♂️
Nice
keen dome
I'd like to thank you all for your sub teachings 🙇♂️
That's extremely good, fuck yeah!
rapid forum
Ye raid is goated already imo
bleak night
yeah i love the raid
rapid forum
Cool visuals
knotty depot
We went up to Soul Hunters HC
rapid forum
Cool bosses
wicked urchin
i've done like
knotty depot
Soul Hunter is amazing
bleak night
holy fuck
keen dome
Yeah, it's a stellar raid with a stellar boss.
wicked urchin
20 keys this week
keen dome
S3 is gonna be real good guys.
wicked urchin
and haven't gotten a single piece for free crest upgrades
knotty depot
Yeah, it's a stellar raid with a stellar boss.
Litterally stellar 😂
rapid forum
Also the spectacle makes the raid super epic feeling
keen dome
Amazing raid, good key season, legion remix, housing, ret paladin tantrum
rapid forum
Yeah, it's a stellar raid with a stellar boss.
Nice pun
rapid forum
Wait there is guilds that still ban trials from loot
keen dome
Not giving trials loot is stupid
void ocean
morning kings
wicked urchin
so banned
rapid forum
They better not be yapping about your performance if you 20ilvls behind
bleak night
Not giving trials loot is stupid
ironically i got more tier as a trial last season than ive gotten as a full raider this one
keen dome
haha
rapid forum
🦫
keen dome
My view has and will always be: kill a boss, get loot.
void ocean
im still at 0 pieces
knotty depot
Well I don't expect it to be the case but yeah
bleak night
i got one pity curio from normal dimensius
rapid forum
im still at 0 pieces
Not even vault?
knotty depot
I can't compete with people that have 4p now
void ocean
Not even vault?
possible conversions r there
bleak night
knotty depot
I got prism in my timewalking chest
void ocean
but not direct one
knotty depot
so I really got lucky tbh
rapid forum
but they gave my prism to a monk
Really? That's crazy
bleak night
(for legal reasons this is a joke if my rl see this)
knotty depot
cause I would never get it in the raid
rapid forum
Prims was simming 172k gain for me
keen dome
but they gave my prism to a monk
It's war
rapid forum
So they insta gave me over anyone
void ocean
i did timewalking raid last boss and got a cloak ofc
bleak night
yeah it was like 40k more dps for me
plus ww can just go get lily and its just as good
so not sure why but oh well
its in my vault anyway
rapid forum
Dumbass loot council
bleak night
for sure
bleak night
real
rapid forum
And a bugged socket
void ocean
im having 692 ilvl with 0 tierpieces, im happy with my 90 parses so far 😄
short radish
I'd like to thank you all for your sub teachings 🙇♂️
noice work mate
keen dome
696 but 691 equipped lmao
Not being able to trade M+ gear to someone when it's real bad for me but their BiS is annoying. Free crests are good, but it feels bad.
tepid trellis
i feel dumb asking this but does this mean black powder at 2 targets if form isn...
you always BP at 4 or more targets, but can bp down to 2 targets if flawless form isnt up
bleak night
Not being able to trade M+ gear to someone when it's real bad for me but their B...
yeah i always feel bad when this happens
bis trinket for them, useless for me but its higher ilvl so gg
void ocean
i got my hero pacemaker last night
keen dome
We had this real good tank who needed helm for his 4p. I have it drop for me, it's haste/crit. I can't use it, I can't catalyst it. Just sad.
void ocean
dont have enough crests for full upg yet
runic trail
I have 4 piece available I just need to work up the will to do m+
keen dome
You can do it
Experience the exciting people within M+
The sights they will show you
the thoughts they will inspire
runic trail
Experience the exciting people within M+
They scare me
keen dome
Join the group that is doing the M+ entirely blind and won't tell you this beforehand. And then get angry when you tell them how to do a boss after wiping on it twice.
keen dome
Well, there was your mistake. Joining a gambit.
bleak night
last boss healer died twice to fragments
once failed to do the line minigame
and once double soaked and couldnt outheal it
keen dome
Speaking of the line. Do you stand IN the circle, or bisect it with the line?
bleak night
hit it with the line
keen dome
Cool, okay.
I wasn't 100% sure 'cos I never did it during SL and have only done it twice on low keys so far
And I am too lazy to look it up
bleak night
ye i dont blame people for not knowing dungeons perfectly week one
i do blame them for getting hit by slow moving projectiles repeatedly though
keen dome
Haha yeah
sharp lake
rumor is that healing reduction effects (wound poison, mortal strike) work on Salhadaar, is this true?
runic trail
i do blame them for getting hit by slow moving projectiles repeatedly though
Sometimes the swirly calls to you
void ocean
if u stare at swirly long enough, swirly stares back at you
bleak night
rumor is that healing reduction effects (wound poison, mortal strike) work on Sa...
ive also heard that rumor
tepid trellis
rumor is that healing reduction effects (wound poison, mortal strike) work on Sa...
it got fixed
so not anymore
bleak night
ah gg
void ocean
i aint puttin wound in raid, fck it
keen dome
it got fixed
sad 🙁
runic sequoia
you always BP at 4 or more targets, but can bp down to 2 targets if flawless for...
Damn I'm a dummy. I've been evis outside of dance unless form is down lol
Stonks ig
Tyvm
tepid trellis
yo guys is araz ritual forge any good?
not great on its own. no
glacial haven
Unluco
tepid trellis
its okay in a double on-use setup but outside of that you really want a 90sec trinket
as sub
glacial haven
okayy thanks 😄
steel zinc
its okay in a double on-use setup but outside of that you really want a 90sec tr...
What double on use outside prism we want? Apart from ritual forge. Fyi got also the prism stealthi
steel zinc
F