I'm afraid
#subtlety
alpine wraith
ok alt got tier pants
daring marlin
phew 1 tier i am saved
swift tinsel
nope just default frames and cell
raven maple
What should we macro Nertherprisim to?
hollow spear
swift tinsel
blades
hollow spear
Shoulders heroic, oof
alpine wraith
damn man got a socket
swift tinsel
zero raid drops lfg
alpine wraith
tacit maple
are there any rwf sub povs? Or is everyone just playing assa
dusk stone
Sub being a played spec, this isn't shadowlands
spice matrix
erm
swift tinsel
check your event viewer, I've gotten nvlddmkm errors that were causing it
dusk stone
The hell does that mean
swift tinsel
display driver error
dusk stone
display driver error
Ty
1st pinnacle cache of the week gets us a shot at tier right?
Or something like that
swift tinsel
unsure
iron fjord
!sheet
dusk stone
It's the timewalking dungeons quest that does
Just remembered
Got me hoc last patch
swift tinsel
ye
bright elk
the timewalking raid quest gave me a cloak :*)
dusk stone
No tier from raid big sadge only roll left is on dimensius
swift tinsel
same
idle aurora
so are we black powdering with low target counts?
swift tinsel
had a netherprism drop and one of the fdk's got it
swift tinsel
so are we black powdering with low target counts?
4 targets
only two of our tier tokens dropped
charred thicket
!fuu
swift tinsel
loot in general was pretty shit
swift tinsel
but we start heroic thursday so hopefully better luck
idle aurora
lol its so hard for me to get out of the rythm of just evisc ;/
swift tinsel
if you wanna prio its fine to evisc
idle aurora
ok cool
swift tinsel
depends on what you're pulling but in general
dusk stone
lol its so hard for me to get out of the rythm of just evisc ;/
For raid or keys
swift tinsel
like if you have a ret paladin storming all the pad adds just send eviscs
pastel rampart
dusk stone
I got legs myself
steel zinc
daring marlin
LETSGOOO
lilac stag
Stacks dropping dance feels wrong
Feeling more weird was trying to yolo cds in normal. 
lilac stag
shit sorry which one is it?
The bot is down. Have to search the channel for the sheet link if you want it
lilac stag
Same 3 as me. Just swap helm and shoulders.
keen dome
Ye
lilac stag
Idk if the time walking gives tier but I ran it just incase
keen dome
nice
keen dome
Superb, those ones look great
lilac stag
Yeah
steel horizon
!up
lilac stag
Clanker is dead
lilac stag
lol got tier on my warr
Did you raid yet?
steel horizon
Rip
lilac stag
... hrm. Skill issue
strange chasm
might be kinda geared rn
keen dome
might be kinda geared rn
big
woeful roost
guy for more than 3 adds use bp? and for 3 and less evi?
young mural
finally guild let me have a hero piece 1st week
young mural
guy for more than 3 adds use bp? and for 3 and less evi?
exactly
woeful roost
k ty
young roost
!fuu
dusk stone
guy for more than 3 adds use bp? and for 3 and less evi?
3 or more adds WITH find weakness. The find weakness part is important
It's 5 without it iirc
agile osprey
civic swallow
Is it worth catalyzing a champion piece to obtain 2pc?
tepid trellis
guy for more than 3 adds use bp? and for 3 and less evi?
4 targets present, press BP
its that straight forward
mental dune
did heroic soulbinder completely break for anyone else?
just stopped doing mechanics or spawning adds
very funny but smh bricked parse 😒
short radish
4 targets present, press BP
thats even without FW right?
tepid trellis
yeh just 4 targets
short radish
👍
keen dome
Starting M+ off with a double rogue key. Today really is blessed
fallow nimbus
!wa
main ridge
!fuu
hidden jasper
is the tazavesh hardmode bug fixed?
where if someone would die in the key room, it would count as a death towards deathless run
tight sparrow
got chest hc piece and legs hc piece do i get the legs from vault or chest coz like chest is haste versa
stoic valve
is sub not looking great rn? everything i saw had it at a decent spot but i just saw that wowhead post with tier set and power infusion dps numbers and the spec is looking underwhelming to me from the outside
bleak night
tight arch
!wa
tepid trellis
stleathi why do i not see any subtlety rogues in hc logs
cuz assa is better
tight sparrow
even for mythic progress?
stoic valve
on paper thats how I felt, the 4set especially seemed very massive, but ive been relearning the spec and i feel like im doing jack shit without it
tepid trellis
very likely yes
tight arch
can anyone link the WA that highlights Mark target?
tepid trellis
on paper thats how I felt, the 4set especially seemed very massive, but ive been...
sub's single target is just tuned bad. so unless you can hard carry some add pad, then its just kinda not good
stoic valve
in the past when i played sub i never felt like a detriment to my team, i just had huge peaks and valleys but would always stay consistent to them
tepid trellis
ah that you can still do, after you get tier
stoic valve
now i feel like an anchor in these keys
tepid trellis
pre 4set you arent a class
lucid jackal
I don't feel like an anchor in keys at all idk
I've been doing 8-10s all day and been keeping up easily with fdk warlock shit
stoic valve
if 20s dont pass between packs i feel like im not online
some of that is relearning
but it feels off
lucid jackal
Felt fine today for me
tight sparrow
its just sad we gonna play assa for m progress
tepid trellis
never know blizz usually throws in a tuning patch week 1
tepid trellis
sub is like 15% behind the "good" classses
strange chasm
Me at 696 ilvl I sim what the top classes sim at 684 no 4 set lmao
stoic valve
so brutal
lucid jackal
Not like Sin sims much better 
stoic valve
is that st stealth?
tepid trellis
yes its st
lucid jackal
Fatebound st sims r fake tho
tepid trellis
what
lucid jackal
Adds make u lose boss damage
tepid trellis
okay but that doesent matter on a boss like dimensus
lucid jackal
Talking like forge weaver
strange chasm
Cds work kinda well
fickle mason
!sheet
lucid jackal
There's a handful of really heavy multitarget fights where fatebound st isn't really real
spice matrix
sub is very fun on Saladzar
strange chasm
Sin defs gaps with caustic spatter on all the ad fights tho
You go sicko mode on forge and soul
rapid oasis
yea, seems like sin is better than sub on forge which was really sad
strange chasm
Sin is probably better on all the bosses potentially
tepid trellis
fb assa is a vibe tho
feels good to be able to Mut-env-mut-env-mut-env
soulbinder
rapid oasis
oh oops, but yea, sin just destroyed me on soulbinder, kind of sad
rapid oasis
sadge
young mural
well, we've know for a week that sub was pretty bad lol
not really a surprise for me at least
its a sad reality out here
mental dune
is it not a fight length issue?
i ran normal and hero with the same sin rogue and i got beat in 6 minute fights n topped 3 minute
tepid trellis
not when assa becomes 90sec as well
rapid oasis
i know its the wrong chat, but is the play for sin to play FB on everything after 4p?
tepid trellis
prolly not soulhunters
warm marlin
I've been doing 8-10s all day and been keeping up easily with fdk warlock shit
the aoe isnt bad
the st leaves something to be desired i think
its probably bad enough to get buffed though
guess we'll see with stats, maybe prism/4p recovers it enough
hollow spear
among them for sure
warm marlin
it is very strong but its not an outlier
hollow spear
20% from 2p to 4p
fallow nimbus
!wa
warm marlin
assa 4p with fb is like 26-27% to our 29%
alpine wraith
yea after 4p you will only do 300k less instead of 600k
or maybe even beat people on amps/add fights
the diff is super big
warm marlin
ya
hollow spear
I think we catch up a bit with 4p
but we're still getting spanked by all the op shit
rapid oasis
8% aura buff on friday 
weary saffron
hollow spear
You get that after the delve?
alpine wraith
yes
hollow spear
Nice, thanks!
alpine wraith
you get that from one of the chests
i did a 11 but i think any works
has to be bountiful i think
hollow spear
Pumper!
dusk stone
sub feels crazy good with 4pc
effectively a 17% aura buff
tribal blade
effectively a 17% aura buff
bro actually
and the spec just plays so well with double coup
never worried about cdr
vale pine
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
haughty mural
Looking forward to get to 4 piece in a few weeks with my luck
dusk stone
bro actually
im 1 source from 4pc myself
alpine wraith
i got tier in vault but with alt xd
tepid trellis
new main*
safe marsh
!makro
wild vine
i got tier in vault but with alt xd
got tier on rogue, but I also got a belt for the yogg saron kill
and nothing in lfr
carmine portal
what are we thinking boys am I biting the bullet and getting those shoulders to prayge for early 2p
rapid oasis
Champ track neck is like, worthless so
wait why is it worthless? cuz craft next week?
lucid jackal
u can just farm hero track neck if u wanted
dry zodiac
easily farmable
lucid jackal
U cant farm tier
dry zodiac
tier is not
rapid oasis
oh truee
lucid jackal
But yeah, crafted gear exists as well
carmine portal
Shoulders it is
dry zodiac
so i've got a question about the optimal cooldown sequence if you go into it w/ coup ready(this is with new 4 pc and SB active). do you Coup > storm > coup > strike > ST? or would you squeeze the sectech in between (coup storm ST storm(?) 2ndCoup). or is it something else entirely and my brain is just rotting cuz its 3am.
warm marlin
first finisher of shadow blades is always sectec
short radish
is it me or is our ST kinda not that amazing in m+ anymore
warm marlin
what build are you playing
warm marlin
ya but like the rotten one, finality + tea, dark brew,
fallow nimbus
!wa
wicked joltBOT
dusk stone
is it me or is our ST kinda not that amazing in m+ anymore
dunno i dont have 4pc but i think there's generally been power creep, including ST powercreep but also we've gotten 22%+? in buffs so idk
iron plover
what th fk
keen dome
How much of that is sudden demise
iron plover
what ilvl are you?
vale pine
not bad first vault
tribal blade
695 with 4pc
vale pine
!loot
wicked joltBOT
formal shuttle
cool guide fuu
anybody else have the chance to open vault before going to work but choose not to in case its a bad vault and you have to sit through 8 hours of sorrow and despair?
haughty mural
I decided not to
iron plover
anybody else have the chance to open vault before going to work but choose not t...
Bad vault just means you’re banking the good luck for raid
:)
formal shuttle
You know what, all my bad luck in m0 last week i said the same, so true!
alpine wraith
2pc insta replace old 4p
pastel rampart
based
tribal blade
can you buy the delve map on the AH this time
lusty root
not a bad first day 😄
alpine wraith
big
btw if you have geared alts do lfr and join echo splits or whatever you may get warbound tier
dusk stone
disc belt comes with gem slot right
alpine wraith
ye
dusk stone
circes is like 7.4k stat right
hoary orchid
Delves give tier now?
alpine wraith
yes
dusk stone
i think the rates for delve tier was boosted with how many people got it this week
turbid saddle
i think the rates for delve tier was boosted with how many people got it this we...
yeah 7 of my 9 characters got tier from delve
the rate seems to be on the higher side
vale pine
Delves give tier now?
did in s2 too iirc
tho maps are now hard to come by
think someone did mention how many delves you need to do before you can get maps
vale pine
maps ended up rly nice ye
turbid saddle
gilded"
turbid saddle
ye
hoary orchid
did in s2 too iirc
oh i guess i was just unlucky then
solemn lodge
hoary orchid
btw fuu in a short answer, worth to 2p/2p the sets?
steel zinc
streets with new tier set
already new tier? your in na right?
steel zinc
btw fuu in a short answer, worth to 2p/2p the sets?
just wait like max 2 weeks to have 100% 4p
the power is in the 4p
hoary orchid
just wait like max 2 weeks to have 100% 4p
Alright ty
haughty mural
Uhm 2p/2p should also be super worth
merry agate
no tier in vault its over bros 😭
hold me!
summer peak
Morning guys ❤️ iv noticed that my second ST is back before my dance ends! Should I SOD and do inside they dance or wait for second dance ?
alpine wraith
yea you can
haughty mural
but slam your dance key to chain them and not let the clones hit outside of dance
tribal blade
already new tier? your in na right?
yeah i'm NA
gonna be honest, you guys should take advantage of sin being omega busted atm
you can time keys with a million fuck ups because sin is just doing crazy overall
haughty mural
It’s still the s2 bleed build right ?
tribal blade
yeah bleed build
haughty mural
And nothing changed I guess
tribal blade
not really i don't think
haughty mural
I’ve got raid before m+ anyway after work - but yeah I already got asked to sin in keys
pastel rampart
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tribal blade
yeah i haven't failed a key as sin yet
chrome palm
You are doing double what arcane does before first boss
tribal blade
every single key is +2
dire pulsar
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
chrome palm
I had rank 1 priory in the world earlier today 
tribal blade
I had rank 1 priory in the world earlier today <:Cheesin:1004094333458317332>
yuuuuge!
pastel rampart
btw
chrome palm
Actual m+ legend btw
pastel rampart
anyone looked into the chaotic nethergate?
tribal blade
this season might be a get 3k and chill for me
pastel rampart
that trinket is not normally....
chrome palm
Chaotic netherprism 
chrome palm
anyone looked into the chaotic nethergate?
Yes the trinket is good
tribal blade
my entire guild wants to give me an M+ intervention haha
tribal blade
i didn't get hero track tier in vault, only champ track
but tier is tier on 1st week
solar charm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
steel zinc
you can time keys with a million fuck ups because sin is just doing crazy overal...
we are boomkin and assa rogue
and its a faceroll premade
we wiped 2 times in fg on swamp and still timed a 10
tribal blade
yeah same here
stick a sin rogue in any key and you can carry the entire thing
it's a shame because sub with 4pc is really fun
i did a streets and really enjoyed it
vestal escarp
the power of deathstalker......
steel zinc
yeah same here
How was the raid?
Looked like sub is good on very short fights and sin in pure st
tribal blade
How was the raid?
the raid is amazing, but i didn't do that great tbh
learning the fights and playing sub again after a long time playing sin
limpid sage
stick a sin rogue in any key and you can carry the entire thing
are they really that busted?
tribal blade
are they really that busted?
yes
limpid sage
s1 frost dk levels?
bleak night
hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby
tribal blade
i'm not sure if it's a low key OP thing because sudden demise is doing absurd numbers
but yeah sin is super strong atm
bleak night
skill floor very low
tribal blade
the only difficulty of playing bleed is playing deathstalker
and honestly playing around IC
it's rough to learn at first
limpid sage
what'd you say the gap is between sub and assa rn? because I love playing sub but I might just abuse early season assa if it's too stronk
tribal blade
it's not even the gap between sub and sin, it's the gap between sin and everyone else
this was from a 10 FG where we had wipes and lots of inting
but still timed
limpid sage
tribal blade
it's prob not even that impressive numbers tbh
i could do much more with tanks pulling better routes
limpid sage
and your mates are equal gearwise?
tribal blade
and your mates are equal gearwise?
the mage had 4pc yeah
bleak night
assa just solo carries
chrome palm
Sin can go into a full magic comp and still beat mages and also op warlocks
chrome palm
Yeah its pretty sorry until you reach execute
But after execute you aren’t THAT far behind
tribal blade
haha yeah big executie
chrome palm
Also think sin in raid on st is pretty strong
tribal blade
yeah i'm prob gonna test FB sin on heroic fractilus
i realized on fractilus you can't apply FW
with backstabs
which is turbo cringe
limpid sage
storm angle
tribal blade
or maybe i need to stand on the side of him
bleak night
idk if it was just me but his hitbox kinda felt weird
chrome palm
At least we take imp storm in st now
tribal blade
yeah true
chrome palm
He has a very strange hitbox
limpid sage
I wonder if it's worth doing storm with premed over shadowstrike if boss is facing you
and no FW is up
chrome palm
I don’t think so
limpid sage
truth
tribal blade
pull a stealthi and ignore backstab in dance minmax
limpid sage
you could also reroll night elf for a shadowstrike every 2 min
chrome palm
Not on bosses
limpid sage
ye it's weird
chrome palm
You can’t leave combat on a boss
limpid sage
it doesn't do a stealthed shadowstrike, but you can do 1
chrome palm
There are a few assa rogues as some of the highest damage on fractillus
I think you can just highroll really crazy
bleak night
ye just flip tails 300 times in a row
chrome palm
ye just flip tails 300 times in a row
bleak night
chrome palm
Oh that’s 27 heads
limpid sage
<:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
despairge
chrome palm
27 heads is not despairge LOL
chrome palm
This was my alt kill on fractillus
I don’t know what they’re gonna do with sin
Some sorta nerfs ig
tribal blade
this could be giga doom for sin
because over compensation nerfs are a thing in wow
it would be funny if they let it ride for sin
when they fixed it real quick for sub
chrome palm
I dunno they’ve been super modest with nerfs recently
Like 3% nerf to the strongest passive trinket in the game changing nothing
bleak night
i mean it depends how well assa actually ends up doing in raid no
tribal blade
sin stays like this until after the race right
limpid sage
27 heads is not despairge LOL
no despairge gameplay wise
bleak night
normally they try not to nerf during raid
race
unless its like a serious outlier
chrome palm
It’s kinda hard to imagine them touching sin at least for st considering it probably isn’t played a ton or stacked in rwf
bleak night
which assa probably is in m+ but its m+
chrome palm
Like why nerf sin when the other specs are also just much better
tribal blade
yeah they give 0 shits about M+ tuning right now
chrome palm
It’s just funny to see sin keeping up in st with the other specs are known to be disgustingly broken
bleak night
they did a few tuning passes last season specifically targetted at m+ early on
wet idol
In st yes, surely it will get aoe nerf after race tbh
bleak night
so i wouldnt be surprised if it does happen
wet idol
It wont be insane nerf but its gonna happen
chrome palm
Yeah something is gonna happen
chrome palm
But even if it’s damage is in line it’s still got insane prio
chrome palm
question when should i swap to finailty build in key
What do you mean finality build
bleak night
yeah i mean deathstalker with tier is such an insane damage profile
chrome palm
You can use the build on wowhead right now
bleak night
even if its overall gets nerfed its still gonna be great
fossil imp
is outlaw like way better until you get s3 set or am i just insanely piss on sub
rose vault
What do you mean finality build
the wow head m+ build says we run that
chrome palm
the wow head m+ build says we run that
Yeah you can just run that
Don’t need to worry about tier or whatever for that
heady dragon
this could be giga doom for sin
turns out
making a tree based on RNG streaks
is maybe not a good idea
cus insane RNG streaks will result in dumb stuff
who could have seen that comming
tribal blade
making a tree based on RNG streaks
true screw rng
heady dragon
ngl, fatebound will go down as one of the dumbest thing blizz desinged in a long long time
its insane how insane stupid everything around it is
haughty mural
Happy coinflipping
heady dragon
reminder that they had to buff it into high heavens AND make a tierset that removes the capstone RNG so people even think about playing it
and it still loses dmg on more then 1 target
such a design failure is impressive
cant wait for next expansion without the tierset and it drops to 0 playrate again because the capstone is RNG again
vale pine
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
i would wait till after raid
carmine portal
Cant raid this week
vale pine
oh
carmine portal
Going on holiday tomorrow
vale pine
unforch timing ^^
carmine portal
And gf is raiding tonight instead haha
Yeah
Will onky be in italy a week tho then ill be back at my pc
bleak night
god i hate when i have to stop raiding for a vacation in italy
vestal escarp
<:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
Lmaoooooooo
The hand of fate sure was at work here
bleak night
the worst part is even his second streak at the end is higher than my highest streak
proven plover
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
carmine portal
god i hate when i have to stop raiding for a vacation in italy
god yeah it's so awful
carmine portal
its quite hot atm, so you should have good weather this week
Stopping in Rome for a day then off to Rovere
vale pine
stay hydrated^^
temperatures here (austria) are around 31°C this week, italy - especially the lower parts should be even higher
carmine portal
Will do, normally in tuscany this time of year but decided to go somewhere different this time
dusk stone
so do i put new 2 piece on immediately?
vale pine
so do i put new 2 piece on immediately?
yes
dusk stone
got 4pc effectively done as soon as i hit 2k rating, good first day
vale pine
nicuu
void ocean
do we not get delvers map this week?
scenic tree
!tricks
wicked joltBOT
Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0
runic trail
do we not get delvers map this week?
I think you have to be rank 2 on the delvers journey for it or something
Delver's Bounty Maps Can't Drop Right Away in Season 3 - Require Delver's Journey Progress
void ocean
oh ffs
void ocean
just wasted one summon
slate lantern
damn idk if its even worth grinding that out this week
median coral
Does anyone know why all my sims tell me to put haste/mastery gems in all my gear?
runic trail
Does anyone know why all my sims tell me to put haste/mastery gems in all my gea...
Can you link the sim?
void ocean
gotta love that every season I have to watch/read 5 hours of tutorials to figure out all the dos and donts
fringe palm
runic trail
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vNeKQzcx7KKr23MsWSLrvv
Now I need someone not on mobile to look through this because god damn that site is a pain on mobile 
tepid trellis
!up
wicked joltBOT
median coral
I generally sim patchwerk 5 bosses 3 minutes for M+ gearing I assume it wants to up the tick rate of rupture as high as possible?
runic trail
I generally sim patchwerk 5 bosses 3 minutes for M+ gearing I assume it wants to...
Sim dungeonslice instead
But yeah I'd look through the sim but the site is a pain to navigate on mobile, sorry
median coral
Decent results sub simming for dungeon slice has been iffy in the past
runic trail
I thought it'd be more manageable , it was not
median coral
no dramas appreciate the look in
still quartz
!wa
wicked joltBOT
vale pine
!tier
wicked joltBOT
Tier set:
Best Slots: Head, Chest, Hands, Legs
Strength: 2p (~10% dps) | 4p (~20% dps) -> Combined: ~30%.
Note: Try to get the 4set asap.
vale pine
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
weary tree
!loot
wicked joltBOT
vale pine
alright, think this helps with the tier set questions
swift tinsel
Def can’t wait to get my hands on tier bc was feeling pretty noodley in raid last night
keen dome
It's been smooth until here
And like. This is NOT a hard fight on normal
But people just can't do it
slender tangle
Heroic Tier in Vault and Netherprism from Timewalking, good season start boys
swift tinsel
Yeah the gravity thing is cool but people be scuffin it even in a guild group lol
swift tinsel
Nice!
peak jetty
Heroic Tier in Vault and Netherprism from Timewalking, good season start boys
GG. I am not jealous at all.
swift tinsel
We had doodoo loot and I lost on the two tier pieces and prism lol
Imma try and pug heroic this weekend though
Even just up through fractillus
keen dome
Ye
vale pine
Imma try and pug heroic this weekend though
good luck
swift tinsel
good luck
Tyty
Have y’all gotten to check out the raid yet besides iGestalt bashing his head against Dimensius?
keen dome
Yeah, man. Fuck pug leading Dimensius normal
swift tinsel
Interested to hear other impressions of how sub feels
keen dome
Absolutely impossible
vale pine
we will raid today evening
random hare
i'm not sure if it's a low key OP thing because sudden demise is doing absurd nu...
Sudden demise isnt the reason at all
swift tinsel
Was having display driver issues so I got consistent freezes/client shutdowns
random hare
swift tinsel
we will raid today evening
Good luck 🫡
tribal blade
Sudden demise isnt the reason at all
yeah for sure it's not just that
swift tinsel
May the loot gods smile upon you
tribal blade
doubling arms warr dps is madness
swift tinsel
Yeah, man. Fuck pug leading Dimensius normal
How far have you been able to get in the fight so far?
keen dome
We got to the second half of P2. Most of the issues are P1. People just not paying any attention to what they're being told and I spell it out.
tribal blade
haha yeah we're back to having a hard end boss
keen dome
So many devour deaths because people just do not want to do the one singular mechanic
swift tinsel
Yep sounds familiar lol
vale pine
Good luck 🫡
we will start with normal, so won't be too hard
swift tinsel
Yeah, normal kinda fell over but the fights are still pretty cool
We skipped the whole last phase on salhadaar
But that fight is gonna be dope on heroic
vale pine
normal is for loot
heroic after, we only raid 2.5h so unsure how far we get
but will be fun
keen dome
Yeah, normal is really good.
Veyr chill
DImensius is the only hard fight 'cos it has instant wipes and people have to pay attention for 5 seconds (challenge imposisble)
swift tinsel
I think we maybe had five tier tokens drop total, and the rest of the drops were pretty meh
swift tinsel
Lol we wiped to the first push bc the gravity people were running around with their heads cut off
keen dome
Yeah
void ocean
Lol we wiped to the first push bc the gravity people were running around with th...
they didnt understand the gravity of the situation
keen dome
We had two DPS who, even after being told repeatedly what to do, would stand in his hitbox for the mechanic
swift tinsel
Then not pulling the floating people down
vale pine
https://tenor.com/view/moana-disney-hei-hei-coconut-bonk-gif-15776265
^ live stream of lfr
keen dome
Like it killed them and they went and did it again
swift tinsel
Then not coming together in the split gravity part
keen dome
Also the people who ask "What killed us" when it's so obvious
swift tinsel
Or taking airborne to the front of the platform instead of the back so they got insta-killed
runic trail
they didnt understand the gravity of the situation
Boooo
void ocean
P2 of Dimensius - De Other Side
runic trail
Like it killed them and they went and did it again
If I learn from my mistakes that means that the mistakes have won
keen dome
Ye, I wanna try to get my 60 gilded
Raid was so smooth, 1:30ish for getting to Nexus King
then almost an hour solid of wiping on dimensius
swift tinsel
Dang that’s cruisin
I think we got to Dimensius with 10mins left of our raid night so I’m looking forward to actually seeing more of it
keen dome
I legit don't think Dimensius is a hard or complex boss on normal and it's shocking unwilling most people are to make a token effort in pugs
swift tinsel
Yeah I’m a bit worried bc of the personal responsibility thing
vale pine
i did lfr quick in the morning
swift tinsel
We struggle with that
vale pine
and it was funny
you think tanks would know how to pull stuff out of void zones or run out if dbm/bigwigs tells them
keen dome
We had 5 classes that could hero on the first boss. I make it clear we want it on pull.
We get hero at 17%
runic trail
We had *5* classes that could hero on the first boss. I make it clear we want it...
This is when you start bringing drums
runic trail
If you don't behave you get a weaker lust
swift tinsel
My favorite is tanks spinning the frontals so no one can get in them when it goes off
Like loomithar, salhadaar
keen dome
Yeah
swift tinsel
Plant, and let people get in
keen dome
We had a tank who just refused to move Loom'ithar from the middle and rotated the frontal away every time
swift tinsel
We had a tank who just refused to move Loom'ithar from the middle and rotated th...
Dude same it drove me nuts
keen dome
I just kicked him. That's the perk of pugging lol
swift tinsel
Ours tried aiming them at the ranged stack and I told him they’re literal space cadets don’t make decisions based on them
keen dome
Hahaha
Just rotate the groups in!
Worst part of Dimensius is not being able to put markers down before you pull
swift tinsel
That’s what the plan was but apparently he had other ideas 
Oh yeah 100%
We have a guy that’s usually pretty good about markers but just..didn’t do it for some reason
valid yoke
W
Dunno which of these is best to take though? Obv one of the hero ones
I guess just wait until I have other pieces?
swift tinsel
Ye you can always hold onto it until later in the week to see what drops you get
void ocean
i got 5 items in my vault this morning, 1 head, 1 legs, 1 gloves and 2xshoulders... none of it was a set piece
swift tinsel
F
void ocean
yup
i already had chest, shoulders and head waiting for a catalyst
hoped for a direct set piece for an early 2p but nooo
crystal bone
well i played many keys last night as both sin and sub and i gotta say, sub is way more enjoyable, but sin is fucking blasting atm
looking foward to 4 pc for sub
alpine wraith
it is very very good
fallen crescent
Nice
crystal bone
coup storm coups
fallen crescent
Is double on use the play for sub? I got a prism and i’m trying to see where i fit it
crystal bone
according to sims it is viable but i don't like the idea of double on-use
not sure how to play it
fallen crescent
Prob using it on ur second set of cds
swift tinsel
Macro it to blades probs
Unless you want it on its own bind for flex
Or both
You play it like a 1.5min trinket anyways
haughty rose
would be recrafting crafted bis gear like amulet or armband with runed crests be any wasteful or is it better to safe sparks for when i have enough gilded to get max rank already?
swift tinsel
If you’re doing 7’s or higher just use gilded imo
crystal bone
u could argue runed crests are more valuable for upgrades than gilded atm
i'd just craft mythic
swift tinsel
^
crystal bone
im thinking dagger craft first for myself
swift tinsel
I’m sitting on all mine except for the 60 gilded to craft dagger
crystal bone
ye
haughty rose
ok thanks. and recraft or completely new craft?
strange chasm
I thought you no play
tribal blade
ok thanks. and recraft or completely new craft?
you can recraft
crystal bone
ok thanks. and recraft or completely new craft?
i don't think it matters, didn't know you could re-craft
either way i think ur using a season 3 spark so
tribal blade
you use less mats to recraft, it's cheaper
tribal blade
max rank dagger with ascendance will be your best craft atm
big power spike on week 1 is very good
crystal bone
oh really? i thought it was lens
vale pine
yes
tribal blade
ah ok
tribal blade
embels mean so little now i didn't care to sim haha
vale pine
and craft sth like bracer/neck/ring
vale pine
and then put dagger in offhand
^ to be clear i mean if you get mythic daggers
so later
crystal bone
i got the floodgate neck with leech last night 😄
vale pine
nicu
wicked joltBOT
Tier set:
Best Slots: Head, Chest, Hands, Legs
Strength: 2p (~10% dps) | 4p (~20% dps) -> Combined: ~30%.
Note: Try to get the 4set asap.
crystal bone
nice!
strange chasm
So what's the logic now with storm and 4 set
runic kraken
Switch to 2pc 2pc asap as well, Fuu?
vale pine
So what's the logic now with storm and 4 set
!coup 2nd line
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
vale pine
Switch to 2pc 2pc asap as well, Fuu?
new 2p asap too ye
runic kraken
Gotcha thank you.
crystal bone
is this all at equiv ilvl?
vale pine
yes
its basically just how much the bonus gives
ilevel comes on top
you might use old mythic levels too
so its a good comparison i hope
runic kraken
I hate s2 tier.
crystal bone
yea s3 tier looking more fun for sure
slate lantern
I hate s2 tier.
Are you kidding I loved sweating seeing 8-9 winning streak stacks 30s out of cooldowns and sweating over every finisher
solid elm
!wa
wicked joltBOT
strange chasm
feels insanely good to play with compared to S2 set
Yeah but man sin still slams harder
Sub st is poop
crystal bone
they balanced around max s3 ilvl
so sub will catch up a bit with new tier but yea fatebound still pulls ahead a bit
sin got like 2 buffs?
or 3
vale pine
Yeah but man sin still slams harder
the diffrence between sin/sub is 9% in simulations
which is typically less than 5, most of the times within 2-3%
slate lantern
Good thing assa got buffed at the end there, would've been unplayable!
vale pine
it got buffed twice
once directly
then the tierset buff was fixed, adding another 200k dps
blizz did rush this patch, it is why tuning is so bad
crystal bone
but thats why sin is looking so insane right now, they got 2 buffs
so thats showing
vale pine
tho guy probably will still call it a sub tier
crystal bone
without everyone's new tier taken into account
i hope i am wrong
keen dome
Guy is irght, it's a sub tier. I base this on nothing but me playing Sub and wanting it to be true.
vale pine
less trade offs from talent decisions
keen dome
Purple tier, let's go
(I think you are right though, Fuu. but. Sub tier)
raid is purple so it's purple spec
strange chasm
subtlety can still target swap better and has better burst aoe
Caustic spatter sin does ungodly amounts of aoe
keen dome
Yeah it's wild
strange chasm
And just tunnels the boss lmao
vale pine
ye
strange chasm
I have sub 4 set now so only time will tell but I was cranking as sin
vale pine
i think it will be hard to justify
vale pine
because fatebound is essentially
1:1 sub damage profile
but you do more baselne damage
keen dome
I could get 2p right now but urgh, what to pick
I should pug heroic before picking a piece..
Can the timewalking box drop tier?
wraith sphinx
the champion box can, i dont think the heroic box can
keen dome
Ye, the champ one
plush roost
Yeah fb sin is probably being played on plexus, loomithar, ds sin on soulbinder, forgeweaver and soul hunters, fb on fractillus, and maybe sub on last 2
Idk if u can justify ds sin on dimensious since you lose your mark too much
keen dome
I wonder how well Dimensius lines up with burst.
'Cos having cooldowns for the platforms is nice
dusk stone
tho guy probably will still call it a sub tier
hope you're wrong about it being a bad tier for sub you mean?
strange chasm
Sub cds does work really well for platforms on nexus
vale pine
hope you're wrong about it being a bad tier for sub you mean?
yes
i hope we see sub played on all bosses in mythic
but i think thats copium
plush roost
I wonder how well Dimensius lines up with burst.
Platforms look like theyll be 1:30-2:00 mins apart on mythic if i had to guess
dusk stone
numbers mean not much but i got a 5mil parse on halls earlier half paying attention without new 2pc, it feels good even without tier, after the buffs
plush roost
Obv no idea if they change things
dusk stone
raid feels like ass parse wise
crystal bone
i hope we see sub played on all bosses in mythic
i will do it in my top 1k guild 😄
dusk stone
but this is without 17% aura buff
keen dome
Platforms look like theyll be 1:30-2:00 mins apart on mythic if i had to guess
Sounds good for Sub, then. But yeah, who knows how it goes
dusk stone
its hard to say but my inner pessimist says its not a sub tier. i'm seeing way too many people play basically only sin for prog raiding
vale pine
i will do it in my top 1k guild 😄
oh ye absolutely
most of us can care less
i still wish classes/specs would be closer together
but i keep repeating this line every tier
dusk stone
did you see the classes played vs classes with highest IO chart?
ret is literally twice as high as anything else lol
vale pine
they reworked ret
strange chasm
Sub just needs some more ST tuning
vale pine
and always tune it in a way to do incredibly well for 80% of the players
means the top end is like "nah not good"
dusk stone
i mean in that if that's what they want their game to be about, i dont hold out much hope for things being balanced very well
vale pine
but the average joe does more damage than everyone else in his raid
and thats appealing to a lot of players
besides the "ritter"/"holy knight" fantasy
dusk stone
i understand why they do it and why its popular
its a god awful design philosophy in my book
just a pure race to the bottom
but thats how they tune things
vale pine
i don't understand their philosophy
because there is no consistency at all
then more you look at data then more you get confused
but then again, its a new tier
sub has a rly strong tier set
dusk stone
specs are designed for people
vale pine
so guess lets just be happy we have a new raid, and don't care about number tuning
dusk stone
sub is designed for us, but the amount of time put into it is proportional to the people playing it, or thats what i see
vale pine
well
for me, it looks like time put into a spec has a lot of positive effects
which means, if one spec/class gets less time, it suffers from the consequences
tho tuning is still the biggest factor for play rate
dusk stone
thats what im saying yes
vale pine
when sub was good, people played it
vale pine
dragonflight s1/3
short radish
amir
vale pine
s2 nobody played rogue ^^
short radish
though wasnt it still relatively even between assi and sub?
dusk stone
i thought i looked through logs and only s1 looked good
valid ocean
S3 had some insane sub niche bosses
toxic zephyr
we sub rogues are a myth
dusk stone
but the actual consistent theme there is that noone plays rogue since the game launched
or so i hear
vale pine
though wasnt it still relatively even between assi and sub?
vault of incarnates for example
short radish
i see
short radish
ye
though it still sorta shows
even when sub is strong
it sstill not played nearly as much
"strong"
lusty ibex
!gear
wicked joltBOT
vale pine
it sstill not played nearly as much
well you need to know
people don't start playing now
they saw the same pattern happen time over time
dusk stone
sub was A tier in m+ last season on yoda's list in a worse state than it is now comparatively, and it got a B this time
takes time for people to not doubt
vale pine
also one thing not mentioned on the metric
i tried to convince realz when he was in here
is how some mechanics of sub are just hard to understand
and also punishing
e.g. shadowcraft is something 90% of people only understand when i explain it to them
dusk stone
sub is legitimately hard to learn and easy to master
vale pine
it could be anticipation
dusk stone
idk how you do that, cause that's backward, but they did it
vale pine
i did not have to explain anticipation in legion, was easy to grasp
dusk stone
it took me 1/2 a key to shake the rust off this season
hollow spear
people rather switch classes than play sub 
timid slate
Should sub feel like a piano when i do opener? I only have macro for STec/cblood/trinket looped in, finding shadow blades, symbol, flag all that alot to get used to making cohesive
runic trail
I still don't get how shadowcraft works I just hit another finisher when the WA plays the sound
dusk stone
i mean if it were me, i would just make a cheat sheet of the optimizations
like we have to explain all the time that you always symbols a sectec
and thats buried in the wowhead guide
there's like 15 of those things
hollow spear
Won't change anything
People come here asking questions that would be answered if they just looked at the guide for twenty seconds
dusk stone
we kinda do it here with the mistakes command and we all explain of course
runic trail
People come here asking questions that would be answered if they just looked at ...
I'm in this post and I don't like it
valid ocean
At least it's not the spreadsheet timing class with 2charges of CDR vanish like it was for fyrakk
dusk stone
i actually had to read the guide more than 10 times to get all of the information, over a series of days
hollow spear
That's how it usually works
valid ocean
(That's all classes)
hollow spear
You just won't get all the intricacies of a spec in a readthrough
You have to play and then go back to it
vale pine
i mean if it were me, i would just make a cheat sheet of the optimizations
i did intentionally put optimizations in a seperate section on wowhead
dusk stone
i mean kinda, but a lot of time things i was reading was dead info to me a lot
hollow spear
You aren't going to get the basics and all the minmaxes right at the same time
vale pine
i mean its kind of a trade off
hollow spear
if only people read it 
dusk stone
like 8.9/10
hollow spear
"Is there a good rogue streamer?"
vale pine
if you put things all into the baseline information
hollow spear
Proceeds to go to their chat and ask them the same questions
vale pine
you overwhelm new users even more
dusk stone
for sure
toxic zephyr
Should sub feel like a piano when i do opener? I only have macro for STec/cblood...
i do opener like this - Shadowstrike -> Flag -> Rupture -> trinket+SD+SoD+Tea+SB -> ST .. you can min max with doing shiv or shuriken storm before ST for an extra %from danse macabre
vale pine
i think about it, maybe there is a good solution
dusk stone
careful tho
hollow spear
Just become a streamer fuu
vale pine
Just become a streamer fuu
haha^^
hollow spear
Then you can live react to "will sub be meta this season?"
dusk stone
ill reread it actually and make sure i'm not full of crap
hollow spear
And melt down
dusk stone
anything that isn't the rotation was really good
hollow spear
the major damage comes from playing the opener right
so I think the placement is okay
vale pine
the major damage comes from playing your 90 sec cooldowns correct
vale pine
kinda yes
dusk stone
i am more hopeful for sub this tier for sure
i have a 17% aura buff before i can whine
hollow spear
tier set feels very nice
so it's mostly about the numbers
which can easily be changed
haughty mural
Prism is unlucky for your opener
dusk stone
do i care about which trinkets for m+ is it the raid ones
or is it like seaforium and something else
vale pine
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
slate lantern
double on use sims highest for slice
vale pine
having control over your damage like with double on use was always prefered in higher keys
tho i would say
prism + passive
is what i will go for if i get prism
dusk stone
seaforium is highest passive or do i go look
vale pine
well you see above
antenna is kinda above
also swirlie is not bad
(the last boss trinket)
crystal bone
i got the trinket named secret technique last night