subtlety

[tribal blade]

yeah buying CE nobody cares because it doesn't take anything away from anyone

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1106224572811984956/1367129809951395871/9sftfb.gif

[void ocean]

but they earned the gold they spent on paying 😄

[tribal blade]

buying title you legit screw over people who worked hard to try to get it

[steel jolt]

you can buy gold so i dunno about earned

[keen dome]

Although didn't the CN region do something about this kind of thing?

[void ocean]

well they earned money 😄

[slate lantern]

buying rank 1 and bragging about it? just lashga things

[tulip gorge]

my dream is for boosting to be completely banned in WoW

[keen dome]

It would still happen, though.

[slate lantern]

isnt he back as like RogueONE btw, pretty sure thats a lashga burner

[lilac stag]

following it up with anti-lgbtq classic lashga

[random mason]

That 'character' earned the spot even though the player piloting it bought a carry, in the end theyd have to hand check every single eligible character for signs of boosting

[tribal blade]

funny story is one guy on that list is a dude who whispered me in the open world about title pushing asking how to do it

[keen dome]

Haha

[tribal blade]

and then he goes and actually starts doing it, i played with him and was "oh, this guy kinda sucks"

but he makes title

[keen dome]

I guess he found out the cheat code: the credit card

[tribal blade]

and i was like huh

and now i see he's a buyer

so it all makes sense now

[keen dome]

That's the thing that'd always stand out to me, right? Someone has title, you'd expect them to know how to play decently.

[tribal blade]

i double checked his IO just now, looks like he did buy every 20 he timed

[lilac stag]

and?

[tribal blade]

that wouldn't take that long tbh

i think

someone legit just compiled a list by themselves

of the NA pool

[void ocean]

i mean i doubt there r millions of potential r1

[tribal blade]

there isn't no

it's much smaller than that

[random mason]

Well are u gonna pay the people doing that? Blizzard has been cutting down employee numbers theyre not gonna put ppl on looking at key title eligibility

They got the automated system and done

[void ocean]

u can give it to an intern

[lilac stag]

yes. pay your people. give it to an intern

[tribal blade]

blizz does actually go through a lot of the title stuff by hand

[random mason]

Theyre busy on rogue balancing

[tribal blade]

i assume

people have been bumped out of title for using exploits

[lilac stag]

rogue balancing is our dev just disappearing or playing assa

two different things. if you offer titles, you had best have a way to turst/verify it

[tribal blade]

that's why M+ and PVP titles aren't rewarded until like 1-2 weeks into the new season

bceause they have to go through everything

[keen dome]

I wonder if it's even an automated processes

I assume not

[tribal blade]

honestly no idea

[void ocean]

eye test

[lilac stag]

class dev is not the same as data analysis for a title

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/coroca-unsee-this-gif-19184703

[swift tinsel]

I'm sure copilot can crank it out in no time

[void ocean]

"intern checking titles"

[tribal blade]

but they do look for irregularities

stuff like bringing in outside buffs into dungeons

or similar type exploits

[keen dome]

Yeah

[void ocean]

sub rogue in timed 20 - boosted

i could write that script in 5 sec

[tribal blade]

hahaha

[lilac stag]

no matter where you work, there will be people doing bare minimum to keep their job or only focus on shit they enjoy. title checking is just data analysis.

[keen dome]

Maybe if it becomes a consistent issue they'll address it since some of it should be obvious. But it'll always be a problem and I don't see a way to avoid it. Resilient brings more positives than negatives to most players imo.

[tribal blade]

nah we have our own messerknecht who natty got title

[random mason]

Well boosting is part of the game and exploiting the game shouldnt be, so they punish exploits

[tribal blade]

i've had this discussion with so many key friends recently

seems there's no solutions, only tradeoffs

[keen dome]

yeah

[lilac stag]

CN just nailed boosting

[random mason]

China isnt global

[tribal blade]

i'm actually not sure if blizz is honestly ok with boosting in title

i wouldn't be surprised if they clamped down on it this time

because resil made it really egregious

[void ocean]

its easy when u have a db of all chats, messages, emails...

[lilac stag]

it''s impacting resillance which is good for the game overall

[tribal blade]

but we'll see if they care or not

[random mason]

Its an insane headache to actually get evidence of boosting

Like enough to not accidentally catch innocents

[tribal blade]

some of the people who got boosted have some really crazy profiles

[slate lantern]

I just love ban waves for the plea posts on reddit "I didn't do anything wrong!!"

[keen dome]

Per blizz, discussion of boosting and being paid gold has to take place in-game rather than out of game (mentioned.. somewhere)

[tribal blade]

like my buddy going from 15s to 19-20s in 1 week

with every key timed with 4k players

[random mason]

Yeah but not all of em

[tribal blade]

no not all

but there's never been this level of boosting ever in keys

resil has made it a LOT easier to boost title

[random mason]

And once its known

[void ocean]

imagine 4k players making alts with like 2k rio and then boosting 😄

[random mason]

They just change the boosting strat

[random mason]

Exactly

[tribal blade]

i think they actually did that

1 of the groups has a 3600 dk in it

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

with all the rest of the boosters are 3.9-4k

[lilac stag]

IP tracking and seeing is this the same person on the team running a new toon or not is not that complicated

[void ocean]

tho they would kinda need to have a new set of chars for every new guy

most IPs are dynamic, now sure how precise that would be

google still thinks im sitting in my country capital

[keen dome]

MAC is a better approach

[lilac stag]

limited dynamic. and vpns are technecially a no-no if I remember ToS

maybe not I forget to be honest

[void ocean]

i mean, ur ISP gets a range of IP's it can use and thats the furthest that kind of tracking can go

[keen dome]

only if you are english

[lilac stag]

quite possibly

[random mason]

Any of the things you mention will immediately be circumvented once theyre known

Until you have to attach a personal id to every account

[lilac stag]

it's like walking into a Target. Theyve got more survalance, footage and data on you than you can ever imagine. literally tracking everyone walking theough the store the entire time. let shoplifters get away with it until its a felony

[nova dew]

hey guys i was looking at wowhead guide and it said on opener if 7+ targets black powder but on priority it says 4+ targets any reason for that?

[lilac stag]

it'll never be 100% perfect, but if you delete 90%+ of the problem thats a win

[swift tinsel]

#UnbindBP

[lilac stag]

#buffBP

[swift tinsel]

if you never cast it, they'll have to buff it

that was their logic for the big buff

[lilac stag]

the real content

[keen dome]

hell yeah

[swift tinsel]

I think I was one short

[lilac stag]

i remembered to do underpin last night

then had to do it again on ? for the hat thingy

[keen dome]

How'd you find ??

[swift tinsel]

yeah I thought you had to do ? to get ??

[random mason]

Nah, you can just hop into ??

[swift tinsel]

ah, rip

?? was annoying at times, I liked zekvir more

more interesting mechanical fight

[lilac stag]

zekvir was better. the bomb interacts are annoying even with adjusting the console

[keen dome]

Agreed

[swift tinsel]

plus the mob spawns could be really finicky

[lilac stag]

not being able to kite as dps to position frieds is just bad

[keen dome]

Did Brann get stuck in a wall for you

[swift tinsel]

yes

a lot

[lilac stag]

i had friends spawn outside the wall at times

[swift tinsel]

and I'm convinced his position would affect friend spawns

[lilac stag]

like wtf

[swift tinsel]

not just mine

[lilac stag]

it's both

[swift tinsel]

fuck that guy

[lilac stag]

they spawned better when he was dead

[swift tinsel]

bc I'd be in a different quadrant and they'd spawn on the opposite side of the wave I had killed

[upper narwhal]

At the start of the patch you had to go out and in every attempt or they would always end up spawning outside

[lilac stag]

i had to vanish port for shield and got despawned

[clever delta]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[upper narwhal]

Idk why I grinded it week 2 it was not fun

[swift tinsel]

I think I ended with 25-30 attemps

[clever delta]

Oh shit ass dps went up sub is dead

[swift tinsel]

bc of those stupid spawns mostly, got greedy a few times

[lilac stag]

i need a translator

[keen dome]

Ass up, Sub dead

[lilac stag]

i thought it was ass up, face down that's the way...

[keen dome]

Apperently not

[upper narwhal]

Thank god Assa can play fatebound in raid couldn’t handle another full deathstalker tier

[lilac stag]

did sims get released?

[nova dew]

hey guys how different is sub in s3 vs s2?

[upper narwhal]

Sub dead plz buff dead spec

[nova dew]

rotation wise

[swift tinsel]

was that a fuu creation, idr

[clever delta]

So dead

[lilac stag]

DEAD

[keen dome]

We're in Schrodiner's Sub

[swift tinsel]

I think I saved that from the DF rework lol

found these too of Whispyr on my home pc

[upper narwhal]

Basically the same, you just press storm between coups with the new tierset in blades

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1106224572811984956/1400111973571625000/Whispyr.gif

schmeeps contribution iirc

[lilac stag]

someone link me a sim, i'm scared to go into FOTM land

[clever delta]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

https://wowsims.github.io/classic/rogue/

[lilac stag]

ah the good ole days

[keen dome]

4 eviserate casts

[lilac stag]

got any elitist jerks?

[keen dome]

the ideal amount

[swift tinsel]

if its not thottbot I don't want it

or wowarmory.com

[keen dome]

https://external-preview.redd.it/Yf1ixtgHJOAB4KnnMPW2hQ6CuXEtDDiFDMnuh7hNd90.png?auto=webp&s=e3926e2b2950d6eda5e9b32c3fe9167641ce3c5e

[swift tinsel]

ej forums goated

[lilac stag]

hold on, getting an ICQ ping

[swift tinsel]

possibly an askmrrobot angle

[keen dome]

man, ask mr. robot

[swift tinsel]

also when I learned Ion is Gurgthok from EJ it explained a lot

[keen dome]

simming via himf or hit / exp

[void ocean]

dead spec.

[keen dome]

then despairing because my tank at the time would only stack stamina and never reforged for hit / exp

[void ocean]

wait what is this sim

[swift tinsel]

reforgelite was my go-to

[solar charm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[stable plume]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[void ocean]

thats some DF shit, innit

[swift tinsel]

time is a flat circle

[void ocean]

I stopped tracking tier sets somewhere around wotlk

[swift tinsel]

I only remember t6 was the last tier of BC and the rest faded into the aether

[void ocean]

yup

[swift tinsel]

could not tell you any since then lol

[void ocean]

tho for me at that time "S" was more important but yeh

[keen dome]

Yeah I have no idea

I just googled "rogue sim" and that one came up

[void ocean]

In World of Warcraft (WoW), Tier 19 (T19) refers to the armor sets introduced in the Legion expansion's Nighthold and Emerald Nightmare raids.

boy I was way off

[haughty mural]

Yes

[keen dome]

ancient content

[tribal blade]

my despair when legion is a new expac in my mind

[swift tinsel]

no one tell him it came out 9 years ago

[jade urchin]

i started in dragonflight and legion is still a new expansion in my mind

[keen dome]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-solid4-mgs4-solid-snake-old-snake-becoming-old-gif-24179307

[tribal blade]

legion is hands down the craziest time in wow history to me

[swift tinsel]

me thinking about how I started playing 18 years ago lol

[keen dome]

high5

Although 16, here.

[swift tinsel]

that's just barely over half my lifetime

[hazy breach]

Too many uncs in here

[tribal blade]

i started playing in 2005

[keen dome]

uncs..

"UNCS" is an abbreviation with multiple possible meanings, including United National Consumer Suppliers

I agree, too many United National Consumer Suppliers

[swift tinsel]

no no not enough have you seen the shelves in walmart

[tribal blade]

i started playing on my buddy's account

[keen dome]

I've never been inside a walmart

[swift tinsel]

winning

[tribal blade]

and he had a ~25 lvl rogue

i tried it out and was "why would you not play anything that has stealth"

[swift tinsel]

I started with a few soccer buddies who had been playing with a while then they all quit a few months later lol

my first toon was a troll shaman then I got the BC expansion and went paladin

[keen dome]

Rogue since I started WoW, whihc is funny

[hazy breach]

[tribal blade]

bro i find it so funny i was playing wow when the southpark episode came out

and the leeroy meme

[swift tinsel]

played that until late wotlk then switched to dk, made my rogue in cata then swapped around between those three with some other alts sprinkled in until SL

[tribal blade]

what a great time

[swift tinsel]

or the TV adverts with Mr. T, Ozzy, Aubrey Plaza

and the mohawk grenades

[keen dome]

What about the car one

[tribal blade]

still remember my buddy running up to me going "YOU HAVE TO WATCH THIS VIDEO" and playing me leeroy jenkins

[swift tinsel]

I don't remember the car one

[keen dome]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viR_RlMOsds

[tribal blade]

oh yeah i remember those

[swift tinsel]

I still have my old install discs too

the 5 for vanilla or however many it was

[frigid prawn]

Can I actually just macro thistle tea to dance in the new season and dont care about it snymore? Cuz I have that feeling that I wont have thistle for each big cds when I use them also in the dances between the big cooldowns?

[void ocean]

then where do u buy ur guns

[tribal blade]

yes

[keen dome]

at the gym

💪

[swift tinsel]

You're in the UK aren't you?

[keen dome]

yep

[swift tinsel]

ah so where do you buy your knives then

[keen dome]

tesco

[swift tinsel]

[void ocean]

he pulls em out of his liver

[keen dome]

The 'ol liver to knife trick

[void ocean]

but it was actually a spoon

"you call that a KNOIF"

[solemn flame]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

https://tenor.com/view/vince-mcmahon-excited-gif-27408104

FB sim includes the bug still, it'll be over 9.000 soon

[rapid torrent]

Quick question: when you cast flag, do finishing moves against other targets still do the extra damage againts the flag target?

[tepid trellis]

yes

[rapid torrent]

Awesome ty

[haughty mural]

Thank god for that

Esp last season

[vale pine]

@hollow prawn @leaden prairie lmk if i made any mistakes or a typo somewhere

[leaden prairie]

holy macaronni this is cool !

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

Very nice work, Fuu

[vale pine]

I also published it to the web: link

including a light version ^^

ofc

[swift tinsel]

looks amazing!

[hollow spear]

And crediting ghostopera

Goat

[graceful crown]

Thanks fuu

[maiden oar]

what the

i kneel

[vale pine]

ofc. i joinked the format from him, so the minimum to do is crediting it and linking his website

[clever delta]

imagine so much work just for zac who

[maiden oar]

if i expect to play fatebound assa on the bosses its better i should craft ascendance dagger no matter what right

[hollow spear]

Zac who?

[maiden oar]

even if i somehow get 2 drops from loomithar w1

[clever delta]

exatly

who?

[swift tinsel]

double lense gang rise up

[hollow spear]

Yeah right

[maiden oar]

ill do it after prog

[hollow spear]

Double lense gamers

[swift tinsel]

I should recraft asc to my dagger

[hollow spear]

You will play sub on some bosses

[swift tinsel]

realistically

[maiden oar]

but on prog i will play whatevers strongest and then immediately play sub only on reclears

oh yeah

[vale pine]

just lmk if there is a mistake, i can else put it to !up

[hollow spear]

You won't play fatebound on all bosses

It stinks with adds

[clever delta]

!who

[hollow spear]

!zacwho

[maiden oar]

but i thought that ascendance is like worse than lens for sub by a slight amount and lens is worse than ascendance for sin by a bigger margin

is this wrong

[hollow spear]

Embellishments are generally poop

Not sure if ascendance scales

Lense does for sure

[maiden oar]

i see

unsure what the ideal craft is if im planning on flexing both is then ty

[ripe flame]

Insert the illusion of choice meme

[maiden oar]

ill figure it out

[clever delta]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923898501529600/1402236177020485682/gear.jpg

[swift tinsel]

I'm hoping for a dawnbreaker dagger today

[clever delta]

ITS STILL BLUE

[maiden oar]

well i guess week 1 im not going to play fatebound without 4pc

[clever delta]

surely we play sub in raid, right guys

let me check

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[maiden oar]

i think for some bosses u do

probably also the important bosses

unless fractilus is an important boss

[clever delta]

oh no its another assa tier

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1402281360772698132/meme.gif

[keen dome]

nah it's a Sub tier

100%

Sub season 100%

[maiden oar]

no i think looking @ last 2 sub is better suited to the fights

[clever delta]

its fatebound tier, time to flip some coins ❤️

[maiden oar]

but if fractillus is hard dps check i want to be prepared to throw coins at him

[vale pine]

yes, i just want to be sure i made no mistake somewhere ^^

but i just put it in, and someone will complain if i did

[clever delta]

i know i know im just too excited and trolling

[maiden oar]

i actually really like the coin animations

is that weird

[clever delta]

now you are bound to do it every tier or change

unlucky

[tidal marsh]

yep

fucking weirdo

[maiden oar]

oh ok wahoo

[clever delta]

im with you hali

[vale pine]

its not too much work

so idm

[clever delta]

i turn sound effect just for it

[maiden oar]

[slate marlin]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923898501529600/1402236177020485682/gear.jpg

[clever delta]

https://tenor.com/view/honest-word-its-honest-work-it-aint-much-it-aint-much-but-its-honest-work-gif-13763573

[fierce elm]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[maiden oar]

oh also mildly unrelated but was outlaw way more pirate themed in the past

[vale pine]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923898501529600/1402300975355789403/Dark_v2.jpg

[clever delta]

fuu can you find 200k in apl somewhere

[maiden oar]

the only thing i notice that is piratey is the names of the rtb buffs

[vale pine]

alright, done

[maiden oar]

everything else is just rolling dice and having a pistol and a grappling hook

[ripe flame]

They had a spell called cannon barrage

My beloved

[maiden oar]

which seems not that piratey

[vale pine]

haha, i can find a bit more than 1% by enabling the disoriented strike stuff

[maiden oar]

oh ok that makes sense

[vale pine]

and probably 0.1% by adding shiv

XD

[maiden oar]

oh is 5280 not with predisorient?

[clever delta]

we need to match assa somehow

[maiden oar]

fight design carries

[vale pine]

no, it makes no sense to add disoriented baseline. It is inconsistent to do

[maiden oar]

dw we frag

i see

[vale pine]

its another iirc 1 - 1.5% dps

so if you are good, and use secret before pull for the buff

you get some extra benefits

[maiden oar]

1-1.5 is alot

[clever delta]

i was simming racials and with bis gear tha tauren/dwarf is only 0.2% behind orc which is nice

[maiden oar]

dwarf is cool

[vale pine]

ill add trinket sims to the sheet in a few minutes (or a bit more, depending how fast i can sim it)

[clever delta]

i went dwarf for racial, i did not enjoy orc anyway

[maiden oar]

ty i kneel again

i play dwarf because i think its funny to be a really short guy

[swift tinsel]

is it possible to export droptimizer/top gear combos as a .csv or anything like that

[maiden oar]

im so glad i dont have to be velf

[vale pine]

tauren is the most fun class

*race

image you sit there

[clever delta]

i was playing enough tauren in S1 DF

[maiden oar]

thats probably true but faction change costs more money than race change

[clever delta]

faction change is pretty cheap now, there is discnount running

[maiden oar]

oh hmm

[haughty mural]

What is this shiv stuff now

[maiden oar]

well probably dont need to go maghar

[swift tinsel]

someone found it to be a possible gain

but the variance is all over so it may be or not

[maiden oar]

just slam off cd outside of dance?

[vale pine]

you hear "clop clop" - turn around --- nothing
you hear "clop clop" again but this time from a different direction, turn around ---- nothing
suddenly:

[clever delta]

😄

[hollow spear]

Beautiful

[clever delta]

fuu do you remmeber what was diff with sim talent set up and standart RS + rotten

[vale pine]

should i include hoc on mythic in the sheet

[clever delta]

yes

[maiden oar]

i would like to see it personally

[vale pine]

you mean s2 talents, i linked it the other day, let me find it

[clever delta]

i dont neex excat number

[vale pine]

#subtlety message

oh not the talents, the sim numbers

can check later

[hollow spear]

Probably within 2% of each other

[clever delta]

2% is lot

[sacred yarrow]

is it

[vale pine]

what is within a very low margin is playing without shadowcraft

interesstingly

i probably should add that as a potential variation to talents on wowhead too

forgot yesterday

[clever delta]

damn

but sir i love my shadowcraft

[vale pine]

same

its still a valid build option

[placid elk]

so there's a chance for no tea build in m+ also?

[maiden oar]

in m+ with tornado build do i want to use it in st

and if so do i want to try and line my gcd around it somehow so it ticks between globals

so i go like bs -> tornado tick -> check cp -> finish or bs next gcd

unsure how it works never had a chance to play w it before

[vale pine]

tea is not that significant ahead o ye

*so yes

you can in theory still play cold blood

[placid elk]

nice, no tea on sub for me

cheap version of "we can't balance energy, have some mastery also"

[vale pine]

i mean

you can just macro tea and forget about it

[swift tinsel]

the mastery is the nice part

[vale pine]

which feels kinda fine

[swift tinsel]

energy is w/e

[warm depot]

any talent changes from s2 to s3?

[placid elk]

what if they remove energy how much dps gain is that?

no downtime in gcds

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/the-goat-gif-4115569673926897153

hated that shades of blue one

[swift tinsel]

idk if I'd like sub as much if it was 100% global locked at all times

[vale pine]

ye, its easier to read and more compact

[swift tinsel]

I like the ebb and flow

[vale pine]

so the format is actually rly good (so rly good job from the original author)

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[slate lantern]

i agree, i had messaged them earlier this week if they were going to update the sheet and didnt get a response so was thinking of doing what you did but you beat me to it

[void ocean]

What r we cookin

[vale pine]

[limpid sage]

Have you tried some conditionals saving CB for the 50% stronger Coup instead of Sectec?

[vale pine]

secret is better for it

[lone linden]

what's sub low target cleave looking like these days, havent really played it seriously since castle nathria, and i recall 2/3 target dps was very bad (you basically just did ST dmg to 1 target)

[vale pine]

its not too bad

[void ocean]

Do we still have first coup buffed instead of second?

[vale pine]

we will know once servers are up

^^

[swift tinsel]

second is buffed but shadowed finishers is not

so its just the phys hits of the second coup that benefit from the 50%

[void ocean]

Oh ffs

[nova dew]

how do we play around coup?

[vale pine]

essentially 2 things

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/toss-coin-flip-gif-4974804831420211918

[haughty mural]

Yes

[errant slate]

[vale pine]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **you can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use shuriken storm to not proc unseen blade before using your 2nd coup.
• Explanation: The tier set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any unseen blade procs between the 2 coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[void ocean]

U that paladin from the list? 🤣

[lilac stag]

When is this a bot command

[vale pine]

i could add it

idk

[lilac stag]

It’s going to get asked

[keen dome]

Should add it, it's very clear and easy to read imo

[nova dew]

ty

[keen dome]

Putting it under !coup would be good

[vale pine]

!coup

[nova dew]

should be added to guide as well, couldnt find anything on how to play around it other than trying to get it off with fazed

[vale pine]

alright, its not take, so works

[void ocean]

Any finisher?

[vale pine]

yes

you still maintain stuff

maybe i should say "non maintainance" finisher

[haughty mural]

Spam rupture like with pre nerf s2 set

[vale pine]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **you can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use shuriken storm to not proc unseen blade before using your 2nd coup.
• Explanation: The tier set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any unseen blade procs between the 2 coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[vale pine]

alright, think that works

[void ocean]

No more BP?

[crystal bone]

do u know the % gain for storming in between coups?

[real panther]

oh no 😢

[crystal bone]

this has to be omega min max

[vale pine]

bp is still fine, but its more efficient this way

[vale pine]

moment

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[crystal bone]

[vale pine]

Simulation

^ around 1% dps

[crystal bone]

[frank path]

wow

[steel zinc]

To not BP?

[swift tinsel]

storm between coups

[vale pine]

no, its to not storm

[steel zinc]

So 10 sec before cds with coup just chill hands of keyboard?

[vale pine]

with 4p buff

[swift tinsel]

stellar copy name btw lol

[void ocean]

New WA inc

[steel zinc]

What's better BP or do nothing

[vale pine]

haha, i tried to be more discriptive

[swift tinsel]

nothing

[steel zinc]

Made one for tier

[swift tinsel]

well, no finishers

just backstab to not cap energy

farm sht stacks

[tender frost]

Fuu for those coup optimizations, if you're going into cds with 4 stack do you still sectec first or would you blades - coup - storm - sectec - storm - coup

[crystal bone]

my guess is get sectec on cd first

[swift tinsel]

also, so I know for updating the Find Weakness Tracking WA we're set on 4 FW for in and out of blades?

[tender frost]

ah you could just sectec and then storm - coup - storm - coup

[void ocean]

Can we maybe delay sec tech now as 2nd finisher, it seems we have more resets now

If we enter dance with coup ready

[vale pine]

bp is still okay, but just not using a finisher for 10 secs is optimal

[vale pine]

you secret first, yes

[maiden oar]

backstab

[solemn flame]

Dude at this point in minmaxing for 1% with all the conditions i rather play whitout it 😅

[alpine wraith]

from my exp the no finishers if you ahve coup ready can be up to almost 20 secs

[maiden oar]

oh nvm i was beat to it

[crystal bone]

im hyped to play sub this tier

[maiden oar]

me too

sub is the coolest

[crystal bone]

it is cool

and is satisfying when u pull off the burst window

[lucid trail]

while we talking about coup etc, gonna alt rogue for splits coming tier, do we always use sectech as the first finisher in dance

even with coup up

[frank path]

they just answered a bit above, yes

[lucid trail]

im stupid they did indeed

thx

[alpine wraith]

only time you dont is when you use an evis to cdr into a sec tech

[lucid trail]

got it makes sence

and is it worth using 1/2 finishers in the cd windows before pressing the second symbols to have supercharger up for sectech?

or that mby is just a gameplay fail on my part eariler on in the rotation

[frank path]

symbols and sectech should sync

[swift tinsel]

what's the command for that lol

you chain dances in blades, but not symbols

symbols you cast when either the first or second finisher will consume supercharger in second dance

[lucid trail]

ait got it

thx bois

[haughty mural]

Atleast tfd got fixed
I’m looking a lot more forward to using it next season

[crystal bone]

yea thats a massive gain

numerically and gameplay

u just can't calculate it numerically

[alpine wraith]

it is very noticeable

and enables smart vanish gameplay too

[crystal bone]

u basically gain a cd too with vanish

since it was basically useless before

[lethal gale]

what'd they fix on tfd? does the cd start right on stealth now?

[crystal bone]

yes, and vanish also starts the timer

[lethal gale]

nice

[hollow spear]

Vanish starts the timer or the vanish macro?

[crystal bone]

oh not sure

whats the macro?

a stopattack?

[alpine wraith]

no macro used

vanish alone starts it

just dont get hit by things

[crystal bone]

probably gives u more tfd's for flag windows

adding vanish to the mix

[orchid sand]

!race

[haughty mural]

Nah you can yoink it

[shadow snow]

Is it worth it using bubbling wax ?

[vale pine]

its about on par with whetstones

so can use, no need to

[alpine wraith]

1 wax 1 stone was better for a bit

but idk anymore

[keen dome]

I just use two stones 'cos lazy

[steel zinc]

its less then pressing one global wrong

its really w/e

[shell willow]

I like the wax

Just because only rogues can use it

[vale pine]

was still the case last season but its so small in diffrence, it does not matter

[alpine wraith]

nah man trust the waxers

so they google how to do the quest

and do the nice lore

then murder some kobols

[serene notch]

Gives me a good reason to run around and press the pick pocket button tbh

[hollow prawn]

Ty fuu ❤️ great work as always

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/karate-kid-wax-on-wax-off-mr-miyagi-gif-20415895

[crystal bone]

sand the floor!

paint the fence!

[wary plover]

!fuu

!sheet

[crystal bone]

moroes died

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[crystal bone]

wtf

hacks

[slim field]

so many tiny niche things, is it all described in a guide for s3?

[vale pine]

think all guides have them

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **you can stop using (non maintenance) finishers ~10 seconds before your 90 sec cooldowns come up.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you get the 4 set buff, you can use shuriken storm to not proc unseen blade before using your 2nd coup.
• Explanation: The tier set buff does not allow new applications of the unseen blades stacks, so any unseen blade procs between the 2 coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[vale pine]

^ this might not be explained (yet) everywhere, so can add this on top

[slim field]

cheers

[merry agate]

Holy shit fatebound brute forced as fuck

Im gonna play sub in raid and nobody can stop me

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/where-do-you-find-all-of-that-courage-amanda-holden-britain's-got-talent-how-do-you-manage-to-be-so-brave-bgt-gif-3830485371685862788

[orchid sand]

is there a sheet for best simming races anywhere? couldnt find it

[lilac stag]

Thanks for adding it. Do we have a command for listing all the commands in this channel?

[lilac stag]

Maghar, Orc nothing else after that for pure dps

[vale pine]

we do, but i am not sure it includes everything

[orchid sand]

yeah ik that, just kinda wanna see how big of a diff it is in the end

[lilac stag]

Can you check that? I think they would be useful.

[orchid sand]

i know small, but gotta get everything you can out

[lilac stag]

1.5 ahead over the bottom.

It’s kinda big on sub

[orchid sand]

yeah ig, had to be void elf last season for mugzee

maybe time to swap

[lilac stag]

Maghar has some better defensive over orc

I’m still VE. I miss the maghar burst.

It’s about .5 better in sims last I checked over ve

[orchid sand]

guess theory you just pop every 2nd burst right

[vale pine]

idk if i you rly want to min/max to the extremes

[lilac stag]

It’s a 3 min racial for sub

[vale pine]

link to post

[orchid sand]

yeah i mean you jsut macro in blades and forget about it kinda thingy

[lilac stag]

It also was rng being lower. Yay slot machine tier

[vale pine]

Race Sim - Single target --- Subtlety

^ have fun

[clever delta]

guys its over, join the dark side (fateboud assa) before its too late!

[vale pine]

for whoever mentioned

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1402281360772698132/meme.gif

[vale pine]

"but bruh, race makes less diffrence than pre pull stuf"

playing undead is -1.7%

[swift tinsel]

undead is 77% cooler though which, after converting to dps, is >1.7%

[orchid sand]

yeah i wish races would just be flavor and not power aswell

[slim field]

@vale pine my man, a small typo here under #3. u linked dagger instead of trinket

[slate lantern]

AI profile pic, opinion disregarded

[vale pine]

oh, damn my bad, moment

2 minutes

[slim field]

cmon, np

[warm depot]

crafted neck over the new one for bis bis?

[lilac stag]

I was close

[hazy breach]

Either one, doesnt really matter

[crystal bone]

undead is bis

[warm depot]

word, guess i gotta see where im at to know where embellishments go lmfao

[vale pine]

fixed

[hardy galleon]

hey guys, which rogue specc is simming best for ST for next season? :=

[clever delta]

what can you do

[coarse agate]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Fatebound

[vale pine]

currently: assasisantion fatebound

but specs are close

[hardy galleon]

thanks boss

[slate lantern]

i love how outlaw is just ignored

[hardy galleon]

xD

is outlaw really a meme specc for raid?

[vale pine]

[cerulean beacon]

what is that damage on outlaw fatebound lmao

[coarse agate]

As it should be! Can't have a pirate and a ninja on the same platform

[slate lantern]

any mechanic immediately tanks outlaw dps so sims cannot be trusted

[cerulean beacon]

aight makes sense

[vale pine]

think thats less of a problem

the elephant in the room was not mentioned yet

[upper cosmos]

is it the no sub DS sim

[vale pine]

vulnerability phases, the raid (once again) has some fights with them
And outlaw does not offer a good damage profile for it

[vale pine]

because its horrible, over 10% behind

but!!!

now that we got a updated/new assassiantion profile

i can do something fancy (again) with the correct values

[swift tinsel]

There is no DS in Ba Sing Se

no need

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-the-last-airbender-gif-6037055492951935036

[lilac stag]

Do not summon them

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/raving-rabbids-caught-attacked-ahhh-gif-9963347

how i imagine outlaw players

[sinful patrol]

Do you even press rupture in aoe without Replicating shadows?

[lilac stag]

Yes

either on tank gather or outside of CDs

rupture hits relatively hard

[sinful patrol]

Ok, it just feels odd to press when your other abilities hit 8 targets and this is just on one

[dense mountain]

do i still need a vanish macro for TFD or did the bug fixes mean i dont need one anymore?

[haughty mural]

Hit me

[dull sierra]

Sub and sin seem to be the only specs that even want unyielding

Kinda nice

[hollow spear]

Fb sin should probably gain another 2-3% if they fix the kb bug

[vale pine]

alright, it looks almost the same as before

old version

[weary tree]

That's barely different

[vale pine]

a bit less mastery on the profile it seems

[haughty mural]

i love the haste scaling

[weary tree]

Just get 0 haste and you gud

[keen monolith]

assa doesn't care about stat prios for the most part though right? Like if you have mast and vers for sub you'll be fine even though assa seems to want crit/ mastery?

[vale pine]

Context:

• Single Target (Patchwerk).
• Stats are always relative to the highest the spec has.
• BiS/Optimized gear

[vale pine]

assassiantion typically goes with item level > stats

sub is more vers/mastery heavy with crit not too far behind

outlaw is very versatility heavy

i also just noticed i did cut off the y from mastery on the graph for outlaw

XD

[dull sierra]

Nah it was on purpose to emphasize how little they want

[vale pine]

haha, thats a good excuse

[keen monolith]

Maybe phrased better on my part: if ilvl is the same and a piece of gear has haste vers on it for assa, that's going to matter less than let's say gear for sub that has haste/crit. the stat prios will make a bigger difference for sub vs. assa – is that right? I haven't messed around with the sims (just coming back from missing the past few expansions), but that's what I've gathered

[valid yoke]

When do the us servers come up? I wanna watch the new patch lol

[tulip light]

guys do we ever press slice anymore or can i just remove it from my bars?

[vale pine]

sub you basically avoid haste

but in general, what you ask is mostly a simulation angle

/simc and top gear is the best way to figure it out for individual pieces

[brittle plinth]

Sub's haste utilization is so good, we should get legendary items that give us tons of extra haste.

[vale pine]

the graph above is just me doing funny stuff

by showing how stats are spread on something close to bis gear

[brittle plinth]

dummy question for someone just coming back to retail, is lust just haste?

[vale pine]

yes

[brittle plinth]

that is a soulcrushing confirmation lol

[vale pine]

for subtlety, it means we barely notice a diffrence ^^

which isn't bad

[brittle plinth]

untraining monkey brain to send everything during lust sfx

[upper cosmos]

the only time I can recall pressing it is during something like rik intermission where I just want the cdr of spending cp while knowing I'm just going to be sitting on max energy and can only shuriken toss during the phase

[tulip light]

@upper cosmos makes sense ty!

[vale pine]

you can unbind slice and dice if you want

its passive

[keen dome]

But what about the incredibly niche but funny tech of using it to farm CDR in an m+!

[vale pine]

you can in theory also use bp

[keen dome]

/cancelaura Slice and Dice
/cast Slice and Dice
``` it's fun to press

[vale pine]

but yes, can do

can also spam detection

in downtime

for funnsies

[haughty mural]

yes because you have not tier stacks which will reset with bp

[vale pine]

and some trinkets even work with it

even tho we had that knowlage, i don't remember many people using detection ^^

(think we did first week of this raid in intermissions, but then found out it was fixed)

[keen dome]

It worked for a tiny bit with the tier set, too

[upper cosmos]

wait I have detection on my bars just as a stim for when I'm bored, it actually does something?

[keen dome]

Sometimes!

[vale pine]

it depends

its very much not doing anything 98% of the time

[north schooner]

outlaw just looks sad on this even with the graphs being relative

[vale pine]

but trinkets, tier set effects or enchants can technically proc from it depending on how its implemented

[keen dome]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[vale pine]

it looks sad because its relative, so vers makes the other bars look small

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

this are the stats

[slate lantern]

we fucking LOVE vers

[viral phoenix]

where did you get these? are there charts like these for other classes?

[cerulean beacon]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[north schooner]

[clever delta]

i did not see the tier set sheet 😄

[cerulean beacon]

@hearty belfry

[clever delta]

with all classes

thats awlays fun one

[upper cosmos]

I love running around with perma barkskin on at 40% vers

[hearty belfry]

Yes?

Oh the daggers thing?

[hearty belfry]

Sad

[tawdry pond]

do we hold cdg for dance/symbols? does tier change this at all?

[cerulean beacon]

actually pretty happy cuz your mog would be atrocious

[hearty belfry]

Man and the stats are also completely different. I want haste for outlaw which is low prio for the other two and mastery for both sub and sin which is garbage for outlaw

[cerulean beacon]

yeah the stats are like completely different for these two. having a separate crafted ring helps alleviate this

[slate lantern]

welcome to rogue

[hearty belfry]

Looks like if i want to play outlaw I have to stick to it. I'm scared for my wrist

But it's so fun

[vale pine]

I created them for fun^^

[cerulean beacon]

and a haste flask if you dont hit the haste target

[hearty belfry]

Damned crest caps

[vale pine]

thats outlaw

[hollow spear]

Versmaxxing

I'm versmaxxing on sub

[upper cosmos]

what is the general consensus with tww sub aoe? I think I prefer pressing bp at 3+ targets and having tornado but trickster pigeon holes you into spamming evis 😴

[tepid trellis]

good think trickster presses blackpowder at 3+ targets with fw on them

[haughty mural]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[haughty mural]

here you have a fw tracker

so you can press your prescious bp

[keen dome]

@swift tinsel Godspeed on beta testing 🫡

[clever delta]

its started

[keen dome]

I hope everyone has a nice time visiting K'aresh and doesn't fall into space

[left ledge]

weird

when you log onto retail

black powder doesnt do more damage than evis

actually it doesnt even do equal damage

[void ocean]

So u from EU? 🤣

[clever delta]

was thinking there will be some more tunning before servers go live for some reason

[keen dome]

Well, there's tehcnically still time

[carmine portal]

so we're all agreeing this is BIS for us yes

perhaps we will finally learn what our secret technique is

[vale pine]

Shh its a secret technique

[north schooner]

this trinket should give 1 extra clone attack on sectec

[daring raptor]

Guys have anyone tried this bug?
I have tried to use coup de grace 10 tiems now

nothing hjappens

im just stuck with eviscerate instead

[tepid trellis]

it can happen if you have lag spike when you pressed it originally

then it just gets stuck

until you relaunch

[daring raptor]

well that's stupid

Wait are shuriken back for next season ?

[slate marlin]

im very surprised to see crit so strong for assa, are these sims made with fatebound by any chance?

[void hound]

is there a list of min maxxes for the new patch?

[slate lantern]

min: face away from the target you want to kill
max: press buttons as you attack them

[spare quiver]

!spreahdshet

[rare shell]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

^ follow the link

[hazy breach]

Another banger bug we have now that fatebound is gonna be more common is the cb not working for sub after youve been fatebound

Probably gonna need a command for that one

[swift tinsel]

I'll be home from work in an hour 🫡 gonna check errthang to make sure they made it onto live

[viral phoenix]

this is the pure ST build going forward right? Do you pick up RS / 1 point in finality when any additional targets are introduced?

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[hollow spear]

What was the solution to that problem? Relogging?

[vale pine]

oh true, its a old bug

[hazy breach]

Yep

[vale pine]

relogging fixes it for sure, not sure if /reload works

because that would be faster

[hollow spear]

Yeah for sure

[vale pine]

or simply skilling out and in to it?

[hollow spear]

Not sure how deeply seated that problem is

[hazy breach]

Fairly sure its only relogg

[dull sierra]

Oh thats annoying if you swap spec between pulls or bosses

Good to know

[vale pine]

kk

[warm marlin]

huge campaign quest reward wowie

[hazy breach]

642

[warm marlin]

imagine it would have been 22k before the nerf

[vale pine]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.

^ is this good enough?

[hollow spear]

To me, yes

Leaves the option to extend the list if there's alternatives to relogging

Because it's more likely we find alternatives than them fixing this bug 😄

[vale pine]

ye^^

!cbug or !cbbug

[wicked jolt]

Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

• Relogging.

[vale pine]

(we already have !cb/!coldblood, so can't use that)

[viral phoenix]

couple questions with the standard m+ build on wowhead, is it possible to go RS and tornado? Tornado to spread rupture 4 times with no cleave kinda feels wierd no? Also, do we just not pick rotten anymore? Is dropping a point somewhere for rotten fine?

[carmine portal]

Has any1 got that Sub rogue "Ice soup" meme handy

[lilac stag]

Already ahead of you!

@sly shore

[coarse agate]

Hey just wanted to take a second to thank Fuu and Eleem for your hard work!

Its a busy time and it's so so appreciated

[carmine portal]

yeah true

[lilac stag]

Thank Koji as well.

[carmine portal]

big props to all the teams and ppl behind keeping us up to date with sims, guides, theory and feelycrafting

[coarse agate]

(And anyone I missed)

[lilac stag]

tireless back end shit show he gets to deal with

[clever delta]

bro

[vale pine]

solo started doing simc work too iirc

haha

[clever delta]

why always other specs bug out sub

[lilac stag]

we are bottom of the three spec priority list

if it wasn’t obvious. lol

[hollow plinth]

not for sub

well i did trickster tier

[hazy breach]

Did you notice if there was any difference in output when "fixing" the tier so it worked on the second coup solo

[ripe flame]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1402339140078665841/Dark_v2_1.jpg

[pulsar hemlock]

Damn Sub really is the only spec wanting netherprism huh

[hazy breach]

Does frost not want it anymore

[swift tinsel]

doesn't look like it

iirc its an option but not top of the list

[hazy breach]

Do they pretend forge is 3 min or do they hold cds for 2 min

[vale pine]

frost is to my knowlage still quite a bit better than others

(frost dk)

[swift tinsel]

looks like its 2 from the sim

running forge/antenna

[warm marlin]

good day to not scale off haste

[hollow spear]

yeah they treat forge as 3min

[knotty depot]

How do we treat forge ?

[hollow spear]

does someone have the string to include both predisorienting and the "old opener"?

[chrome palm]

I’d be surprised if for damage amp fights in the race you don’t see a lot of prism

[knotty depot]

seems a bit strange at first on how we'll be using it

[warm marlin]

old opener requires more than a string

[hollow spear]

Like my teacher treated me when I was being an obnoxious little shit

[warm marlin]

need apl modification

[hollow spear]

shush

[knotty depot]

With respect ?

[hollow spear]

Yes

[knotty depot]

or did she smack you as soon as she could

[hollow spear]

She respectfully smacked me

[chrome palm]

Yeah it’s gonna be sooo bad for dk when they hold it for amp with lust 🙊

[hollow spear]

Unplayable even

[viral phoenix]

so the old rule was BP at 7+ targets, 5+ with FW, and 3+ during shadow blades right? So now its 4+, 3+ with FW, and is it 2+ during shadowblades or still 3?

[hollow spear]

I am ready to help everyone in my guild understand the power of prism once I got it

[chrome palm]

Real

[hollow spear]

(I pray that they don't watch rwf)

[knotty depot]

So I guess we'll have for every two burst windows

if we hold prism a tiny bity

[warm marlin]

you can press it every burst window or hold for 3mins its essentially equal

[swift tinsel]

this is fdk forge use

from their rider sim

[warm marlin]

obviously hold if theres a dmg amp or more mobs or something

[knotty depot]

I see thanks

[chrome palm]

Idk about this upcoming raid but

Most fights were >5 min as well

Might be less of the case this time around

[hollow cobalt]

Greatest spec discord and community. Genuinely shout out to you guys

[clever delta]

thanks

[hollow spear]

Not you

[clever delta]

[hollow spear]

I have 0 proof, but it feels that fights will be shorter

Inb4 they just increase boss' health by a lot

[swift tinsel]

I want a fight that makes sylvanas timer look like a speedrun

[chrome palm]

Forge master and Fract are like hard enrages

I don’t think those are super long

Nexus king and dimensius will probably be a little longer

[clever delta]

fract was like 4:45 enrage

[stuck linden]

anyone getting a weird bug that shows them stealth walking, but you're not in stealth? I get it when I press my backstab macro that casts stealth when not in combat

[swift tinsel]

yeah that happened a lot on ptr

[chrome palm]

I had that on ptr a lot

[swift tinsel]

just steady creepin around

[hollow cobalt]

We don’t macro CB and Secret anymore, right ?

[vale pine]

no its just static 4 targets /3 fw targets reguardless of blades

you can use either to decide, the diffrence of counting FW is negliable

[viral phoenix]

ok sounds good

[chrome palm]

You probably should macro cb and sectech just that you need a separate non cb sec sech button

[vale pine]

also keep in mind

[chrome palm]

Because you still don’t cb anything else

[viral phoenix]

and obviously if you wanna prio you evisc right

[vale pine]

you might still want to use evis on 4 or 5

[viral phoenix]

like on a DB miniboss

[vale pine]

just to get a bit more prio

[viral phoenix]

ok perfect

[vale pine]

so i would not concern myself too much about it

[hollow cobalt]

Ok thanks Messer

Prio damage is the play in m+, most of the time

[chrome palm]

Fuu if we are using dark brew, can we bp at even less targets since it benefits black powders shadow blades damage?

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

[hollow cobalt]

😄

[vale pine]

don't think it goes lower than 3 targets^^

but using BP on 3 is also not too far behind

[viral phoenix]

would dark brew make it so its just always 3 targets?

[lilac stag]

You’re too busy spreading ruptures.

Never pressing BP

j/k

[vale pine]

you can do that

but also without dark brew

its rly not that much worse

but 4+ is easy to remember too, so unsure why you would not just use that

[viral phoenix]

4+ or 3 FW targets is great im just curious if Dark brew would alter that rule at all

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[viral phoenix]

like is the shadow damage gain enough of a breakpoint to press BP on 3 targets even if they dont have FW on them

which it sounds like its negligible so ill just keep the default

[lilac stag]

overthinking me thinks, but you should be able to see it in a sim setup

[swift tinsel]

you don't do shadow damage with BP without FW so idk how DB would lower it

[vale pine]

^ it is already close without, so probably can 3+

so "just do it"

[swift tinsel]

unless I'm misunderstanding the question

[viral phoenix]

ah no I'm just misunderstanding the actual ability then

[vale pine]

don't let your dream be a dream, tho DB isn't exactly that good

[swift tinsel]

BP is phys, FW adds the shadow damage via Shadowed Finishers

the vfx lies

with its purpleness

[viral phoenix]

lol

[hollow spear]

Despite bp doing so much less damage without fw, the difference is only 1 target?

[lilac stag]

All my homies hate DB and rupture spreading.

[vale pine]

i mean

[steel zinc]

Bro what is this assa sim 5.5 we are gonna go sin later on st

[vale pine]

you are rly not nice

towards deathstalker

[viral phoenix]

this is theoretically high aoe damage in m+ right at the penalty of ST? or did that experiment not pan out

[swift tinsel]

deathstalker has way too many gameplay obstructions for me to be nice to it

[vale pine]

DB is def. strong in pure aoe

so ye

but a dungeon is mixed

[hollow spear]

Why are you surprised? You've been saying we'll play fb sin on single target before the sim was out 😅

[viral phoenix]

yeah for sure, I think this build excels in like priory or something but like you wouldnt wanna run it on Dawnbreaker

also question about other talents do we run rotten anywhere anymore all the guides I see have people running 2x finality and stuff

is rotten dead

[vale pine]

we don't rly run rotten in s3

[hollow spear]

My current mindset is to bp until the shitter mobs are gone and then evis

[steel zinc]

True just that it's this high

[lilac stag]

Didn’t expect actually manifest it.

It’s 5.6 actually

[hollow spear]

The sim still has the kb bug

So ye

[lilac stag]

get them execute phases ready

https://tenor.com/view/smile-zoom-in-grin-gif-12652960

[hollow spear]

It'll be fb sin for single target and sub for anything else, the sim didn't really change that ig

Maybe outlaw for the dh council fight if you wanna get super spicy

[lilac stag]

This is where sub rogues insert the if it was sub, that bug would never get fixed meme.

[haughty mural]

id rather spread rupture than use nado

[lilac stag]

You’re using nado to spread ruptures.

[steel zinc]

In m+ its bis imo

[lilac stag]

RS saves some of that

[steel zinc]

It's with bug? Without its that's 5.7

[vale pine]

not sure

but you can always convince me

[hollow spear]

I mean we don't know if it'll get fixed. They said they had and they didn't. Just like they did with the fazed and nimble interaction we have on sub.

[lilac stag]

It’s still bugged so ye

[vale pine]

of the way of rotten

[steel zinc]

To spread fw and blast first pulls

[vale pine]

you got quite good crit now from gear

[lilac stag]

My bet is they fix it.

[hollow spear]

Somewhere between 5.6 and 5.7 I think

I wouldn't be surprised either way

[vale pine]

was it fixed?

[lilac stag]

at least one of the dagger specs has a respectable ST sim

[swift tinsel]

plus 26% crit for storm from talents iirc

if you take PE

[hollow spear]

Dunno, we don't have tierset to test it

On ptr it wasn't

[vale pine]

guess waiting room simulator then ^^