subtlety

[tribal blade]

outside the room in a corner

you go stand in that corner and can start the RP in the room

the side with the dinos

doing streets efficiently is all about doing the RP well haha

the IO of the person i know who got boosted by 4k people

makes me sad

not sure if i like resil anymore

[alpine wraith]

it is a sacrifice for the greater good

[slate marlin]

resil is good, but has its problems like anything else

[tribal blade]

dunno why they didn't do 19 psf with him, but he was asking me if i had one

and in my head i was like "what, you're nowhere near close to getting title"

and then was like "HOW THE FUCK DID YOU GET ALL THIS IO"

[keen dome]

cash money

[alpine wraith]

he got great friends

[lilac stag]

You getting away from keys and io will make you way happier imo

[tribal blade]

not sure if he paid, but every timed key he did was with the same 4k people

[lilac stag]

those are lashga’s old friends

[tribal blade]

like look at his cinderbrew keys

[keen dome]

Yeah, I dunno. To me that's pretty obvious.

[tribal blade]

literally every key is like that

[graceful crown]

i hate that

happened to me too

[keen dome]

If you wanted to be smart about it, you'd do like, 15 -> 17 -> 19

[north schooner]

wow that person improved really fast!!

[graceful crown]

i was top 3 of my realm then one random got my io and he was unexistant even no keys done at then started to get +18s

[stoic reef]

Guys

[slate marlin]

i dont get why people buy boosts in m+

[tribal blade]

for reference here is a snapshot of my cinderbrew IO i've done as someone not getting boosted

[stoic reef]

Whats bp

[slate marlin]

i get it for raid mount

[random mason]

black powder

[stoic reef]

Ooooh

It makes sense now

[keen dome]

damn, went from a 10 to a 19

[stoic reef]

Yeah

[graceful crown]

[stoic reef]

It just did

[tribal blade]

HAHA truuuueeeee

that must have been when i was helping guildies

[keen dome]

I like that it goes 19 10 19

[random mason]

i got boosted to +15 dfc I'm sorry guys

[tribal blade]

GET HIM

[keen dome]

I like the random 6 in the middle of the top keys

[tribal blade]

nah going up 2 keys levels isn't crazy

[random mason]

it's 3 tho

[graceful crown]

thats a boost right there

[tribal blade]

going up 4 is bananas

[random mason]

i didnt time 13

[tribal blade]

oh

you're dead to me now

(jk <3)

[graceful crown]

no, no jk

he ded

[keen dome]

It's about consistency of improvement. 14 -> 19 is wild. 14 -> 19 on almost every key is extremely wild

But like, if you had a seleciton of 14 -> 16 -> 19 across all the keys and a spread it's kinda whatever?

[random mason]

yeah obviously

but every system is abusable

[keen dome]

ye

[dreamy badger]

Resil = good

[keen dome]

Absolutely

[graceful crown]

what you feel inside is what is important :)

[dreamy badger]

I feel zero sugar sprite and a hotdog rn

[keen dome]

Right now: frustration because the last radiant echo quest item won't drop!!!

[random mason]

i cant do the hat swap thign with brann actually

[graceful crown]

you feel better if u try 20x times a +15 and u got it finally?
or u feel better if u get a boost of +15 and u got in 1 try

[random mason]

wasnt it supposed to still be possible

[graceful crown]

thats whats important

[dreamy badger]

Both are not fun imo

[graceful crown]

yep

[vale pine]

is it almost time to nolife m+ again?

[graceful crown]

maybe not, maybe yes

[dreamy badger]

If a key takes that much grinding, i stop doing it

[tribal blade]

btw 12-15 isn't that crazy a jump, 15-19 is a MASSIVE jump

just 18-19 is already a huge jump

[brisk onyx]

why my nimble is 52% and 62%(with blade)? did i miss something?

[graceful crown]

its like my first time in dark souls, i needed like 50 tries in 1 boss, but when i beated him, that sensation was

[random mason]

i know, im pretty sure i couldve done all 15s but at some point it got boring

[random mason]

bleed assa is just insanely brain off ez

[keen dome]

100% you could've, ye. but if it ain't fun, it ain't fun

[graceful crown]

u get the most fun of m+ when u have a pre if not its just smashing your head into a wall sometimes

[keen dome]

I absolutely adore the random chaos of M+ pugs

Premades are great, but I often find them a little more frustrating than pugging

[graceful crown]

and more as a rogue, that u need much more time in queue to get picked

[keen dome]

BUt this is obvs subjective and I'm weird

[slate marlin]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[tribal blade]

btw look at the group's IO for his highest CB key done

WHEEEEE

[slate marlin]

ok but u lied

those arent 4k people

[north schooner]

appears to be a dummy issue, it works fine on the raider dummies

[vale pine]

^ always use the dummies in OG, the ones in the newer cities often bug out

[brisk onyx]

tyty

[north schooner]

no I tested the ones in OG and it bugged out there too

[swift tinsel]

Yep

That’s where I checked also and it was 52/62%

[vale pine]

interessting

[brisk onyx]

I thought my rogue was some kind of cursed boy.

[lilac stag]

you’re a rogue. Ofc you’re cursed.

[north schooner]

well as long as this doesn't break in actual content... good thing sub is known for being bug free

[graceful crown]

[brisk onyx]

[keen dome]

[lilac stag]

[steel zinc]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r91wDpLqguwPNiyFepzq8L looks this correct?

5% buffs correctly implemented?

[north schooner]

interestingly it seems like it is specific instances of dummies that bug. The exact same type of dummy on the roof of the barracks in OG had proper cleave, but the ones on the wall were bugged

[vale pine]

the buff should be in the latest nightly yes

[alpine wraith]

i think the new cloak buff is in too now

[vale pine]

i will double check things tomorrow and re-run stuff

[steel zinc]

we gained 200k over night then

[crystal bone]

new cloak buff??

hmmm

if only my work router let me go to wowhead

[crystal bone]

oh

i thought u meant cloak of shadows

silly me

[graceful crown]

why i see that cloak as unnecessary?

idk

its nothing

[fathom adder]

i like the cloak but my god

bake the shoes into it

[tribal blade]

yeah it just kinda exists

[graceful crown]

why limit our personal equipment?

[tribal blade]

and kills an item slot

[steel zinc]

it does 6% of your overall in a dungeon

so its really good

[graceful crown]

wowers

more dps

borrowed powers so much fun

[crystal bone]

watch us still get cloaks in the vault

[steel zinc]

Correct thats the primary role of a DPS.

[steel zinc]

in the current season are no cloaks

just in timewalking

😄

[crystal bone]

yea thats what they say

[tribal blade]

how about there's a big pool of artifact pieces to choose from, but they drop at random from content

and you can only get them very rarely like every 1-2 months

and if you get your worst piece first you're screwed

[steel zinc]

I wish we could craft over a long peroid of time with visuals and everything a cool weapon

[tribal blade]

does this sound familiar teehee

[keen dome]

only if you include one that does nothing

[graceful crown]

timed content with borrowed powers, gigafun

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[graceful crown]

lets get dinars since week 1

poggers?

[tribal blade]

i honestly don't mind how they did dinars this season

[graceful crown]

well dinars is not that bad if u have bad luck

yeah

[tribal blade]

as bad luck protection

it worked i think

at least for mythic raiders it worked well

[keen dome]

It was a good system that they communicated incredibly poorly.

[tribal blade]

yeah they could have done it better

[keen dome]

It shouldn't have been called dinars or talked about in the same connotation.

(Like, originally, I know they aren't dinars)

Also we should have this system from week 1 from a season. Every 4 weeks, buy a determinisitc item.

[graceful crown]

and to people who doesnt have an opportunity with mythic raid, to atleast even for the double of dinars get 1 mythic raid item

idk, something

[keen dome]

Reduce friction on farm. Make extremely powerful items more accessible in relation to your progress. Maybe an item to ugprade somethings tier. Make big ticket M+ items not FUCKING RANDOM RNG and fully deterministic over time.

It'd be a good system imo

Every four weeks, just buy the item you want. If you've had it drop? Buy something else. bad luck? You've got it.

[keen dome]

Easy to balance by simply having there be an item to upgrade the items tier. So you could buy Best Trinket week 4, and then on Week 8 you give up buying a second item to upgrade it to Myth quality.

Or if you raid Myth, or don't care you buy something else, etc.

[graceful crown]

yeah thats what i was thinking too

an upgrade system is good too

[keen dome]

Mythic raiding would still remain the single best way to get items, but it'd open up progression on a very limited basis for people who wanna play just M+ or w/e.

[graceful crown]

i know with my current guild ill never be able to get 8/8M and they are my friends, dont gonna leave them

so what im nerfed since day 1?

[keen dome]

It's relative and I don't know it makes that much difference, but it doesn't feel good and we're playing the game to feel good about playing it. So a solution like this would, imo, solve that to some extent while not impacting the general 'gear' economy.

[void ocean]

so when we use Prism in the opener, we only get one stack proc? 🙁

[hazy breach]

Its fw and fazed

If you have fw on all mobs it should be doing 60/1.05

[nova cairn]

Double on use tier

[hazy breach]

Nah just tank the bad opener

[swift tinsel]

Yeah would make sense, was just doing a quick check to see if the values went up relatively with blades up

[lilac stag]

That’s a comparison is the thief of joy dilemma. They can have the mythic trinket, why can’t I? Don’t let them reclearing the 7 mythic boss for the 8th week while normal Andy has done gally once outside of lfr get in the way of fun.

[nova cairn]

Prism and forge would be kinda dope no?

[void ocean]

its gonna be fucky macro if my 2nd on use is pvp trink xd

[swift tinsel]

Saw the updated pin and figured you did a more extensive look

[void ocean]

aha Kush is just talking about it like hes reading 😄

[hazy breach]

Well you are playing without trinkets pretty much for the rest of the fight

[nova cairn]

You do zdps outside of cds tho

[lilac stag]

didn’t believe me when we talked about it earlier.

[hazy breach]

And passive+90s prism is more stats than forge

During cds

[lilac stag]

and now you’re doing less dps during cds juggling trinkets

[hazy breach]

Its like 30% of your damage outside blades

[lilac stag]

pvp trinket maybe your one option with prisim

[hazy breach]

Idk double on-use is ass everytime ive tried to look at it

[lilac stag]

it is

[hazy breach]

Like 3% behind type shit

[lilac stag]

But we didn’t have prisim and a reason to hold for 3 mins

[void ocean]

with pvp trinket if u macro
/use 13;
/use 14;
its always gonna use one of em

[lilac stag]

when the pvp one seems less intrusive

[void ocean]

just one of em*

[fallen crescent]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

but who knows

I think the execute and prism will end up being it

[hazy breach]

Antenna seems good

[lilac stag]

just from all the fuckery I tried doing make 2 on use work

[void ocean]

isnt it weird to have antenna and pacemaker in the same season

they both give crit, innit

[north schooner]

antenna is int too, pacemaker is not

[lilac stag]

And then you run into pvp trinket getting used before prism at 3 mins

[random mason]

No its good bc you can have a 'similar' trinket from 2 different sources

[void ocean]

well technically it would be used every time before prism

since we delayed pvp trink for burst

[random mason]

I really dont like not having a 1.5mins and 2 min option from both raid and m+

[lilac stag]

Welcome to sub rogue 90 seconds

[void ocean]

id have to fire pvp trink outside of cds just to be able to fire prism

[lilac stag]

enjoy your stay

[runic trail]

One day they'll just go 'fuck it' and add 90 second/2 minute toggles to trinkets

[lilac stag]

lucky they actually remembered 90 second agility in s2

[lilac stag]

[north schooner]

they don't have to if trinkets work like magnet instead

[random mason]

Magnet or the netherprism right

Whats the cooldown on that again

[north schooner]

both 20s

[random mason]

Ywah just add something like that to m+ and id be happy

[lilac stag]

[hazy breach]

Pacemaker got nerfed, but also antenna had a bugfix in simc so its better now

[lilac stag]

Pacemaker catching strays with s2 trinkets.

[steel zinc]

antenna is just passive imo its way better then branch

min maxing is a bit weird running around

is the min maxing running around in simc?

[north schooner]

do you know how it is modelled in the sim? Because the actual implementation of the antenna in game is very... questionable (with the orb chasing you to give you the buff)

[lucid jackal]

Is it anything like branch?

[hollow spear]

I doubt they have movement based trinket minmaxes in the sim

[steel zinc]

ya

kinda orbs flying around but towards you they follow you

[north schooner]

Antenna summons an orb nearby which tries to reach you but it's slow. When I tested it took like ~3s for the orb to reach you if you stood still. You can run towards it or outrun it, but I think there might be issues with bosses like the relocator market boss. It's not something that you can sim

[steel zinc]

and you have 20 sec per orb to find it

[north schooner]

maybe they changed it since I tested it though, they did make some changes to it since

[simple dragon]

guys, any decent plater profile that i can download?

[random mason]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[random mason]

Check in #assassination

[steel zinc]

jundies

he is the rogue from ID

[tough mist]

Today's logs from PTR
Interresting

[winter elbow]

so 10% aura nerf next week?

[graceful osprey]

Are we back?

[steel zinc]

bro please this is so cooked looking at this as any kind of statistic

[north schooner]

where can you see that

[wanton vigil]

top tier leaf comment, ty

[steel zinc]

imagine the two streamers didnt play today that are rogue mains

like that is not interessting thats just showing they played

[tough mist]

https://mythicstats.com/ptr?from=2025-08-01

[simple dragon]

nerf incoming

[runic trail]

What in the fuck, we agreed to sandbag

I'VE EATEN ALL THIS GLUE FOR NOTHING?

[haughty mural]

That’s pretty good, no?

[void ocean]

WE BACK

[haughty mural]

As you can set it up if you detect it

[haughty mural]

He didn’t get the sandbag memo

[tribal blade]

is kush back on rogue???

he's come back?

peeposmile

[void ocean]

i guess

[keen dome]

What tier is he gonna put the chair in

[runic trail]

S, for seat

[vale pine]

don't think ptr has enough palyers

[void ocean]

that one will sit out this season, it seems

[stoic reef]

Did the rotation change in the slightest? (M+)

[steel zinc]

ya

[steel zinc]

no

we are fairly middle of the pack

also people watching some of the best rogues on stream and saying we are op

while you could get with 66% of the rogue specs title and raid np

[keen dome]

I should start streaming to counterbalance. Get some real terrible gameplay in. Mr. Blobby barging into a room style gameplay.

[shell willow]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[runic trail]

SPEAK NOT HIS NAME

NO INVOKING DARK SPIRITS

[lucid jackal]

Ehhhh

I mean branch was just op right

And branch was equally annoying to optimize

[vale pine]

branch was less annoying that transmitter

[slate marlin]

people watching kush gapping randoms thinking sub is turbo op

[knotty depot]

both are annoying tbh

[steel zinc]

yeah idk. Casual atleast plays with people that have hands 😄

[vale pine]

yes

streamers often look rly good compared to players in their group

does not mean every competing player in the group is playing to the same level

[random hare]

Well ye

if u play with randoms u do way more dps

played with zorthar earlier today

[steel zinc]

also rogue has a high skill expression

[random hare]

i died on 2nd boss tho

tank killed me

[steel zinc]

gucci is decent too

[random hare]

i think i ended 8.8m i dont remmeber

[steel zinc]

ya tank is a nonmae idk him

[random hare]

was dead entire boss fight

[plush roost]

Zeross

try cleave build

I think its lowkey

kinda good

[random hare]

i did

[steel zinc]

cleave build?

[random hare]

its worse

bleed is way stronger

[plush roost]

Than bleed?

[random hare]

ye

bleed is giga op rn

[steel zinc]

bleed is op prio target just melts with deathmark once in execute

[random hare]

u have to play around it aswell

[steel zinc]

like it just died

[plush roost]

Hmmm I felt like bleed just did negative boss dps

[random hare]

nah

u need to pull stuff on bosses

[steel zinc]

nah just pull sth onto the boss

[random hare]

then u giga funnel

[steel zinc]

you need to play around assa like arcane

[fallow nimbus]

Don't streamer use some wa that adds dps in details?

[random hare]

im 100% sure sin will be funnel

[random hare]

not rly

ppl used it early on to troll

but not anymore

[steel zinc]

havoc has also insane funnel and arcane not anymore after nerfs (still top 3 or so)

[random hare]

i dont think anyone used the add dps on details in ptr ever

[steel zinc]

why would you

makes 0 sense

[random hare]

ye i mean it was only a meme that lasted 2 days

[steel zinc]

its like a bad instagram filter you instantly notice

[random hare]

true

[tawny plume]

Anyone have an idea how the sims look compared to pre buff?

[alpine wraith]

we gained around 200k dps from the 5% that is around 4% and item changes

+cloak buff

[sullen hare]

Number goes up, amount of purple stays about the same

[alpine wraith]

sub should be around 5.2 or so

[tawny plume]

Ok not bad

[smoky tide]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[crystal bone]

sin was almost the lowest simming spec for a good while in s2 yet we were one of the top 5 performers for a bit i think

just goes to show u shouldnt look at sims to compare classes

[swift tinsel]

But it gives me something to complain about

Useless comparisons are gospel round class discords

[crystal bone]

[simple dragon]

how is raid dps looking?

[slate lantern]

purple

[lyric lily]

More blue tbh

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/hype-super-bowl-super-bowl-gospel-celebration-celebrate-choir-gif-16228832

[steel zinc]

It's ok

Middle of the Pack

Lower half

4/8 fights have damage amps and 1 has it's dmg amp at like ~ 1:35

[lilac stag]

Sims were accurate for ST and still are. When you could funnel adds assa showed as performing. Just the same as sub looking good when you can add pad Sectech timings. Execute timing also important. 2x DM in execute on mugz looks really good all while cleaving prisons when no one else could.

[frigid topaz]

Hey guys
Is there a macro for using Shadowstep and turning around 180 degrees with the camera?

[carmine portal]

U probs have ur camera settings set to never move, u should always shadowstep and face the correct direction

atleast I do

[graceful rock]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[frigid topaz]

when i shadowstep to a target i get behind him and facing him
so basicly i did a 180 degree turn

but i want to keep looking at the other direction

[carmine portal]

Ah then u need to disable camera follow, not sure there's macros that move ur camera

atleast I've never seen them

[crystal bone]

thats what i mean yea, there are a lot of other variances that could make u perform better than higher simming classes

[lilac stag]

and as soon as those niche situations are gone (as the tier goes on) you drop while the higher simming classes stay ahead.

when mm and dev are deleting your funnel adds, you back to relying on subpar ST performance.

or in subs case you were wondering why Aug was outperforming you overall.

5.2 st sim when others are at or above 6 isn’t a good place to be.

[solemn creek]

This exacly

[tawny plume]

Well mm is now 5.4 so they probs going to be bm

[hollow spear]

They've done quite some pruning already

[solemn creek]

Sim arent 100%.. but when u are largely undersimming.. its not good.. u rely on niche situation

[hollow spear]

I'm confident we'll be quite alright, especially in raid

[lilac stag]

They’re switching off and 200k ahead of sub ST.

[vale pine]

there is sadly no option to keep the camera setting you had before shadowstep

i personally would like to have that option too

[tawny plume]

Well it was 5.8 before nerf

[lilac stag]

It’s just perspective

[tawny plume]

Its also incredibly inconsistent mm now from what ive tested

[lilac stag]

This channel would probably be very happy at 5.4

[tawny plume]

Yeh i agree with u there

[carmine portal]

May I ask why this would ever be useful?

[hollow spear]

Not sure scath will ever be happy

[carmine portal]

I've never been in a situation where it has caused me to die/miss something I don't think

[hollow spear]

If we're at 5.8, he'll complain about bugs

[vale pine]

to keep your screen as is

e.g. atm

[lilac stag]

I’m always happy, except when the spec barely gets table scraps

[vale pine]

if i want to step a guard to then move forward

[tawny plume]

Im coping midnight has big changes

[vale pine]

i need to use step, then turn my camera

to keep moving the direction i am facing

if the camera would adjust, i could just keep the momentum

[lilac stag]

assa will likely be pumping. Rogue is fine.

[carmine portal]

I suppose

I find that if I shadowstep whilst holding Right-Click I can whip my camera whichever way I need to go (provided I can't step ONTO the mob I shadowstep to)

[lilac stag]

I’m coping I can walk away and not feel bad about leaving guild.

[tawny plume]

Hahaha

[lilac stag]

the game just such a dev mess right now. I don’t enjoy that aspect at all.

raid night still fun af

[tawny plume]

But aura buff

[lilac stag]

yeah when your account renown is stuck at 2499/2500 and you don’t get the aura buff.

[keen dome]

The renown bug is ludicrous.

[lilac stag]

Good times

[keen dome]

It should be such an easy solve, too.

[lilac stag]

so should a poison toggle

[simple dragon]

how much are the best classes simming?

[lilac stag]

6.2ish last I saw

Somehow lock is still alive.

[simple dragon]

is there a sheet with all the sims? i remember seeing one of those in season 1

[keen dome]

🙏

[lilac stag]

They are a few. Likely most public come Tuesday.

[keen dome]

Just open excel and put random numbers in it

[lilac stag]

That also works

[hollow spear]

ngl, I couldn't care less about these sheets - the goal is to clap cheeks on the meter, no matter what

[keen dome]

They're really useless, imo. Numbers for the sake of it.

[warm depot]

yoly what boss was this

[void ocean]

is it just me or ptr is laggy af

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[astral axle]

[tawny plume]

Be the best rogue that way your a beast got it

[void tendon]

My guildie describing the rogue specs

[blissful yacht]

Nobody will ever convince me not to play Sub 😁

[carmine portal]

It's nice to know what to aim for as a spec but yeah, I'd much rather play my dogshit spec really well than swap every few weeks (if you're lucky) to sit on some meta spec

I don't care to play at the peak, I just want to have fun

[void ocean]

does anyone know, was there any word about dinar in s3 as well?

[swift tinsel]

Haven’t seen anything yet

[tawny plume]

Sub has always been my do i learn it fully spec maybe this season i will just stick to it

[void ocean]

I mean wouldnt be surprised if blizz just completely forgets about it... 😄

[swift tinsel]

Kinda hope they revisit it first

[pulsar hemlock]

There was an interview where they implied we will see the return of the turbo boost next season, not sure if that would include dinars again though.

Dinars were a key feature of that, so maybe

[swift tinsel]

Ye I could see them coming back if turbo boost does

[void ocean]

eh tbf I wouldnt mind just having dinar

tho will definitely play smarter with crests this season

[swift tinsel]

Wasn’t there an iteration that just required X number of boss kills at a certain raid difficulty in order to upgrade past certain thresholds

[hollow spear]

In hindsight, my chest gameplay was suboptimal. Suboptimal could also be translated as completely dogshit.

[swift tinsel]

I vaguely remember that being the case in fated SL but I’m probably misremembering

[void ocean]

that was SL dinar afaik

[lilac stag]

By the time most people get there, assa gets a buff.

[maiden oar]

this is true but also sin in raid is easy enough for swapping to always be worth considering if its better

[tawny plume]

true but ive played that far to much to understand it unless it fundamentally changes

i kind of like the idea of learning sub fully incase god forbid blizz ever makes it sick xD

[maiden oar]

motivation to improve is to get there before sin gets buffed

that is my goal

[simple dragon]

all 3 specs look very similar now right?

in performance

[hollow spear]

Afaik, fatebound assassination isn't 100% done yet

On paper, specs look similar. In reality there's probably a noticeable difference on a per-fight/environment basis.

[simple dragon]

i'm still triying to decide what to play

Cuse i like all 3 specs so i don't mind playing the best one

[hollow spear]

Dunno what to tell you then

Nobody knows what the best one will be

[lilac stag]

If you make a 1h you’re stuck in outlaw mode. Make a dagger and you can play 2 specs.

that’s as simple as it gets

[sly shore]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steel jolt]

2nd boss of new raid drops a dagger also

i believe one of them drops an outlaw weapon too

[sly shore]

is pacemaker still cracked even after the nerfs for rogue specs?

[steel jolt]

so you may not want to craft a weapon at all

[lilac stag]

You’re crafting a weapon unless your guild is cracked and is downing 2nd boss week 1 with minimal upgrades

[hollow spear]

Depending on how hard your guild goes on progress, weapon could still be a sensible craft

[lilac stag]

the holding crests is usually not a play most guild appreciate for prog

[hollow spear]

If they raid is tough, I wouldn't be surprised if my guild spends the first week clearing normal and heroic

[tepid trellis]

even then you prolly still do

its cheap crest wise to craft

[lilac stag]

yup

[tepid trellis]

over upgrading it

[hollow spear]

crafted mythic weapon is just so strong

[lilac stag]

I’m sure someone in here will get luck. Not craft and get an avoidance dagger week 1 or some shit.

[hollow spear]

not sure I wanna gimp my normal/heroic performance by waiting

[alpine wraith]

got overtaken by antenna and cosmic hunter mostly

[lilac stag]

watching the 2h melee wait is painful

[hollow spear]

I think I might become a resident antenna hater

[alpine wraith]

cosmic hunter seems quite good overall

it also cleaves

although antenna can highroll

i may try that prism+pvp trink thing

[hollow spear]

We have enough rolling in our tier set

[alpine wraith]

scath helped cook

[lilac stag]

[hollow spear]

What does cook mean in this context?

[lilac stag]

Run PvP trinket + prism

[tepid trellis]

then you have an off hand

and you still crafted

big w

[lilac stag]

You hold prism til 3

Use PvP on cd basically

[hollow spear]

I guess you mean use it as a 90s trinket?

[lilac stag]

Pull, 90, 330 430

[hollow spear]

Ah yeah that way round

Did you force that into the APL?

[alpine wraith]

no it is kinda kangled

but i can try this weekend to see

[hollow spear]

Would be curious. Because realistically I'll only be able to secure prism from raid.

Then the comparison would be between PvP trinket and whatever else I can get from M+.

[lilac stag]

pvp is easy farm too

[keen dome]

You'll be able to get it done asap early day 1 of season

Just join a crate group and slam 'em out

[hollow spear]

Which, realistically, can only be at 4/6, because I probably won't spend mythic crests on it.

[lilac stag]

realistically our dam outside of CDs is zero

and you avoid the 2 min issues with forge

[hollow spear]

If there's adds outside of blades, a passive trinket is probably better by default. But I can see the vision.

[ashen ibex]

did we figure out how manny targets bp and evisc by any cahnce

or not yet

[lilac stag]

It works this tier, but the on use are shit

Prism gives you a reason to hold

[hollow spear]

I think the only reason it might work is prism existing

[lilac stag]

ye

[tepid trellis]

nope, not untill eleem is back of if fuu re-runs em

and im too lazy to do it (im playing urf)

[lilac stag]

Basically just a little what if cooking. Idk if it will actually turn into anything but trying to figure out how not to run trinketless for 3 mins

relatively speaking

@alpine wraith my guess is apl would need to check prism stack count and default to badge if count isn’t met

no idea if it’s actually that simple though

[alpine wraith]

that is a good idea

my problem was mostly the use of badge after prism ends

[void ocean]

it would be nice if I dont have to bind trinkets, i hate that

[alpine wraith]

likely because pvp trink is low ilvl this might only last first weeks at most

or for m+ it seems kinda good

[lilac stag]

@vale pine can you maybe try this?

[nova cairn]

Lazy ass raccoon

[alpine wraith]

let me post it on tc sub so it stays there for a bit

[nova cairn]

@lilac stag Is this the double on use strat

[vale pine]

sorry waht exactly?

[alpine wraith]

read tc sub so it does not get buried

[lilac stag]

What Dino said. Short version. Pair Badge and Prism. Put a check that defaults to badge unless prism is at full stacks (3 mins). Badge follows the normal one use except after prism use, and use it right after at 330

[hazy breach]

How much does the pvp trinket give

[lilac stag]

me trying to think like a mage. It could be shit but it could be worth

[hazy breach]

Like 14k?

[lilac stag]

I don’t know exact number on ptr

[vale pine]

can do later/tomorrow

[lilac stag]

I know it wasn’t worth with HoC but with prism maybe

[hazy breach]

But im pretty sure its giving very low amounts of stats and not worth cooking around

[nova cairn]

Just better having a passive trinket?

[alpine wraith]

think it might be a m+ think mostly where you have more cdr and can also get good mileage of the use after cds

as you can quad dance

usually

thx to tornado giving cdr etc

[lilac stag]

if it’s not an insane amount of work I’d like to not just dismiss it

[alpine wraith]

well if it does not give enough agi it is just whatever

[swift tinsel]

17k at 704 ilvl

[lilac stag]

Thanks. Couldn’t find shit but rewards for s3 Lol

[vale pine]

one active and one passive

or you use the 2 min trinket with a 90 sec one

[swift tinsel]

Only reason I knew the name was from pvp people malding over the bat appearance lol

[nova cairn]

I feel like prism and forge could be good on some ST dmg amp bosses maybe

[hazy breach]

I think people underestimate the power of the passive trinkets

[nova cairn]

Maybe

[swift tinsel]

Buffed sigil will be potent

[hazy breach]

Even if you dont proc the passive agi is almost has the value of that pvp trinket

[vale pine]

yep

[lilac stag]

I don’t, but I would like to see what the 1 min does with our burst. If it wasn’t prism at 3 mins I’d not even consider this

[hazy breach]

Which you will have along with your prism

[lilac stag]

I’m more than fine fucking around with the execute trinket. lol

[void ocean]

so like first 2 bursts pvp trink and then daddy's home BAMfull prism send

[lilac stag]

vs no extra umph for first two flags

[void ocean]

shame this Prism is from the 6th boss which probably means I will only have a HC version 😄

why they never put a good trink on like first boss xD

[hazy breach]

What you just said is exactly why

[lilac stag]

the alternative convo is where are sims, why do we sim low.

[nova cairn]

We get dagger

[void ocean]

blizz wants me nerfed

[nova cairn]

Well 2nd boss

Is giga no?

Tier trinket and dagger

[lilac stag]

Every spec has a weapon off first two no?

or was it 3

[void ocean]

is it vers mastery dagger tho 😄

[lilac stag]

and?

[hazy breach]

Yes, but it also doesnt matter

[lilac stag]

Assa likes that too

[hazy breach]

As long as its not haste its irrelevant

[void ocean]

what do u mean stats dont matter

[nova cairn]

For Assa stats don’t

[void ocean]

how am i gonna get to breaking point

[lilac stag]

let me get my stat weights out and check it agains @keen dome haste dagger

[lilac stag]

Mentally? Just stay in this channel long enough

[keen dome]

It's a very good dagger

[lilac stag]

the expansions all start blurring together

We see purple everywhere

[void ocean]

i joined before DF so I kinda have the gist 😄

[lilac stag]

grippy socks for everyone

[hollow spear]

My guild started extending after 5 weeks of Rik and the dagger didn't drop once

[keen dome]

I wish I had any other Myth dagger exist but, alas. One dagger is all I was allowed.

🫡

[void ocean]

OH FOR FUCKS SAKE

[lilac stag]

nice outlaw dagger

[swift tinsel]

you mean you aren't rocking the int dagger that pulls you out of stealth constantly

[void ocean]

oh wait, this is current season

nvm

[grand wyvern]

my guild mocks me because a shitton of daggers drop and only I can use them and I want them all

[lilac stag]

That’s the other dagger channel

[spice matrix]

when are the bloodmallet trinket sims posted

[keen dome]

God, Floodgate is in the rotation again

I could legit get the same Myth dagger in S3 and never see another

That would be the funniest thing

[hollow spear]

Just pug 2/8M 😄

Trust

[keen dome]

Yeah, I will.

[void ocean]

pugging mythic can only result in using that dagger on urself

[keen dome]

I did a load of Vexie kills and then got bored of putting together Myth groups

I do it worse: I raid lead pugs

[hollow spear]

The first two bosses look doable, even though 2nd one might be challenging for tanks

[void ocean]

what is wrong with u 😄

[keen dome]

Yeah, I think 2/8M is gonna be super puggable by week 4 / 5.

[hollow spear]

And if I judge the average tank's quality by what I've seen on HC Ansurek, I have doubts

[nova cairn]

I’m the only rogue now in my guild so I feel sorta responsible that when a dagger drops I have to use it so no outlaw

[grand wyvern]

is there a chance 3rd boss is more puggable?

[keen dome]

The amount of tanks I would go through every Vexie kill, man.

I used a very simple setup. Tank boss on skull, raid stack on blue next to it. Dump oil in middle. Literally nothing to think about. Without fail tanks would just run around or do the dumbest shit.

[lilac stag]

One of us

[hollow spear]

There's a decent chance. Comes down to how hard 2nd boss actually is to manage between tanks.

[keen dome]

Yeah

The big thing for Mythic pugging is how likely the group is to survive wipes.

You drop one person on boss 2 and it's typically game over.

[hollow spear]

Resilience is turbo ass

Grinds my gear

[keen dome]

It's why this season saw people skipping Vexie to do Cauldron, THEN doing Vexie after.

[grand wyvern]

a lot of pugs don't usually mythic raid so they nop out easily

[hollow spear]

Yeah, I heard that

People just have a really low pain tolerance

[keen dome]

Yep. But it's also impossible to replace people so if you get to Boss 2 and it's clear 2 - 3 of your pugs are just.. bad?

[hollow spear]

Probably the M+ pugging mindset seeping into Mythic raids

[keen dome]

You aren't killing it and aren't replacing people.

In heroic you just cycle people in until a boss dies (or the raid collapses, one of the two)

[hollow spear]

I've spent hours on end dragging random ass German/French guilds over the finish line on HC Kyveza

Always felt like an accomplishment

[keen dome]

Haha, yah

My secret to getting Ky'veza down in pugs are shouting at people and pinging them when they WERE IN THE MIDDLE WITH THE FUCKING ORBS.

[hollow spear]

Then you have people who throw in the towel after the 2nd wipe on Mythic Cauldron

[keen dome]

Get in the orb corner

The stupid slug was worse in pugs though

[hollow spear]

Oh yeah, that one was no fun

Herding cats really

[keen dome]

Yep

[hollow spear]

is now a good time to buy flasks?

my ah addon broke and I can't remember what they usually cost

[nova cairn]

I’d probably say yeah

It’ll be better than Wednesday

[keen dome]

Yeah, def.

It'll spike closer and closer to reset

People'll dump stock on Weds, too.

[swift tinsel]

my goal is buying zero consumes each tier

works pretty well with alch alts and a bs for stones

get a thousand tempered pots, 300 flasks and whetstones

usually last

[nova cairn]

True

[grand wyvern]

how much do you save by having alch really

[nova cairn]

I’m on holiday now until the 11th

[swift tinsel]

I basically only have to buy r2 herbs and bulk ore for glass to make vials which is a few thousand gold a week

I also gather when I'm bored so I end up with a good amount of r3 herbs

if you wanna be kind of a rat and have an herbalist you can go to the plot in hallowfall where everyone dumps seeds and gather, usually a few people there on weekends

[grand wyvern]

people 🤖

[ripe flame]

you can get a lot of r3 for basically nothing and they last longer

[lilac stag]

Alchemy makes me money

[patent lichen]

I just wait for people at the farm

[round latch]

@tepid trellis laughed so hard on the comment section on whispyr's video

u are a literal god

[round latch]

u are sad u cant play becayse u are on vacation

brother i have like 7 years to go vacations

njoy it while it lasts

[nova cairn]

Will do buddy

I just pray m0

[keen dome]

Take the computer with you

play WoW on vacation

[nova cairn]

Is weekly lockout

[keen dome]

I'd be very shocked if they weren't weekly lockout.

[nova cairn]

Also hard mode tazavesh will be a pretty good thing to do right

[keen dome]

Maybe, but it's not avaialble week 0 (6th+)

So M0 is just six dungeons, not eight.

[nova cairn]

Yeah probably

[keen dome]

Their info.. thing, mentions it. Let me find it

[lilac stag]

run all the delves!

[keen dome]

that's gonna be big 'cos it means a hero item on reset

[lilac stag]

get a heroic tier piece

or something

[nova cairn]

With the vault?

[keen dome]

Yeah. As in, the reset on the 12th.

[graceful crown]

hi hi

[alpine wraith]

you can make goremaw crit for around 5m+

but even then

[graceful crown]

wouldnt be fun

if goremaw is a cd finisher like sectech?

[alpine wraith]

well 5m over 45 secs is not that big

well in legion it did triple the dmg it does now

so if it did a 20m crit

would not complain

[nova cairn]

Considering we’re doing 5mill damage per second ye it’s pretty low

[warm marlin]

capstone talent + 45s cd for less than an average eviscerate

[graceful crown]

yeah well 3 finishers and 3 combo points too remember :p

[alpine wraith]

yea the power lvl of our talents is kinda silly

[graceful crown]

but yeah i get it

[alpine wraith]

maybe you can sneak it into a build

let me see

hmm

[graceful crown]

it doesnt have an slot for that type of skill

[alpine wraith]

could take 1 off death perception in the m+ build

but also 3 SoD is kinda comfy

[warm marlin]

but its a pure st ability since it doesnt cleave at all

[alpine wraith]

ah dont make me remember i still report it sometimes

no idea why they took it off nimble in beta

[warm marlin]

even 3% damage during symbols is prob worth more even assuming you never use the extra charge

[alpine wraith]

then just forgot

[lilac stag]

[alpine wraith]

if you PV it up and have an agi trinket popped it crits for 7m at most

pog

oh wait

[lilac stag]

just over warlocks avg per sec

kekw

[alpine wraith]

every 45 secs kekw

[lilac stag]

amazing

[alpine wraith]

imagine if it was like crackshot and it was enabled inside dance

would be nice to have 1 each dance

but no

gotta copy paste from legion then make the damage 1/3

my job here is done

wooosh

[lilac stag]

and work off WM

[alpine wraith]

ah true we have fake WM

and also make it not work with nimble

[lilac stag]

The pre nerf with WM interaction.

[graceful crown]

i was trying this

[fleet wharf]

no flag?

[graceful crown]

yeah haha

-20% dps overall so no viable

but tbh is very fun

much more energy to use

rotten always make it crit and u have 3 free finishers and 7 combo points

mostly

[bleak night]

[steel zinc]

lol no flag might as well go afk

[fleet wharf]

if you had to use goremaw, wouldn't this be better?

[graceful crown]

yeah,

[steel zinc]

I think you should always just not stand in melee I heard shuriken toss builds cp

[lilac stag]

Just between coups

[steel zinc]

first week no hard mode but m0 and delves count towards s3 rewards

[lilac stag]

I love when delves are worth doing. Best content.

[vale pine]

i don't mind delves

idk why people hate on them so much

[keen dome]

Now, hating on Brann? That's understandable

[steel zinc]

I think its chill content

I am with fuu

Problem is when delves are a really good source of power

then you kinda have to do them

and tbh for that they are to easy for anyone who needs to do them

[keen dome]

Brann's a meance

[carmine portal]

DONT STAND THERE !

[steel zinc]

Bran heal isnt that bad

[keen dome]

When I was doing ?? Underpin, he got stuck in a fence for over half the fight

in retrospect, this was a positive.

I like Delves, though. I have criticsms on them and think they could go further in a few ways. but they're solid

[thorn yacht]

i just wish tank brann wasn't such a weak sister

[alpine wraith]

delves were funnier with dps brann

now heal one just tops you in 1 pot

but mobs auto for 2m

[ripe flame]

Delves is perfect WFH content, ideal for doing shit and afk if needed

[swift tinsel]

70 more til I have the 500 title

still need to do the 200 keys one

[drifting fable]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

They’re legit my favorite thing to do

[swift tinsel]

getting hero track vault and a bunch of crests from pretty relaxing content is peak

[drifting fable]

are sims updated with the assa fixes in the sheet @vale pine

nvm i see a date

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1374917173688139836/1400151646008250488/tenor.gif

[lilac stag]

Whispyr holding apl hostage

Go yell at them over in #assassination

they’d appreciate it

[vale pine]

not with the hotfix

[steel zinc]

they are no updated

fyi

[hazy breach]

Idk if you simmed but generally the sim bricks if you dont spec Flagellation as a lot of things are tied to its cooldown. But even with changing the apl to work without it the best i could get was -16%

[steel zinc]

like flag is like playing warrior without avatar

[hazy breach]

And fixing the sim makes it way more complicated to read, so for now its bricked if no flag

[hazy breach]

Or assa without kingsbane, or sub without shadowcraft

Sometimes point we thought were mandatory become less impactful and something can replace them

But ye for now theres no build without flag

[lilac stag]

I wonder how close you could get a build without danse

[hazy breach]

Didnt look but pretty sure it would be worth running even at only the baseline 6%

Very strong talent

[left ledge]

I think danse is too well positioned

[lilac stag]

I assuming based on everything else power level that removing it wasn’t even a close option

[left ledge]

It’s just natural to go there

Like you want dark shadow so bad anyway

And then idek if we qualify as a burst spec without flag

[lilac stag]

If only dance was the source of our power

[left ledge]

Dance is like an enabler for us

We basically aren’t a class outside of dance

Spec

[young mural]

hey dudes, are we going to rock 2 on use trinkets if they dont touch tuning?

i feel like prism + forge is pog

[left ledge]

We are probably going to rock whatever trinket gives us the biggest boost in our cooldowns

[thorn yacht]

pog champion?

[left ledge]

We cross our fingers that something is done

[young mural]

the thing is

the 1min 30 trinket options are quite behind forge atm

which fucks us up

[lilac stag]

It should be the power, and then getting buffed via talents and symbols but I digress

[young mural]

i was thinking about 2 on use because then we can take advantage of the ridiculous forge tuning while also having a big trinket during 2nd cooldown sequence

[lilac stag]

forge tuning isn’t amazing for sub

[young mural]

and since we really dont care about procs outside of dances/blades etc

[young mural]

really? isnt 40k primary stat really good?

[lilac stag]

likely better luck with timings on PvP trinket and prism vs krnagled 2min/3min

[chrome palm]

its 40k that degrades that you only get every 3 min

vs 8k all the time + passive effect

[lilac stag]

prism is just better. and 2 mins fucks up everythjng.

[chrome palm]

and of course, the passive trinket makes your burst better as well

instead of just having 1 trinket every burst

[lilac stag]

Fuu gonna try to cook something up for me and Dino.

but even I’m skeptical

[hazy breach]

Idk forge isnt that ridiculous anymore, its just a good trinket

[young mural]

imagine giga CB sec tech with 500 thousand agility

[median nacelle]

prism + pace?

[chrome palm]

then youre delaying forge

[young mural]

oh did they tune it?

[young mural]

yup

[swift tinsel]

yeah like 10% iirc

[hazy breach]

A bit but even before

[fleet wharf]

yea, nerfed earlier today

[steel zinc]

True just kingsbane got gutted that it has now a cap

[chrome palm]

that is prob even worse

you get half the effect outside of blades 🙈

now its a quarter

[young mural]

lmao

yhea idk not a sub trinket tbh

perfect for shamans though

[hazy breach]

Well prism at 9 stacks is 33k, which is more than the average of forge across our cds

[lilac stag]

Eleem will verify I’m the idiot always trying to sort out 2 on use. It’s just not good. Prism maybe open the door, but our on use that would work with it is limited to ilvl 704

[young mural]

is 9 stacks what we're stacking in 1min30

[hazy breach]

Yes 1 per 10s

[chrome palm]

prism stacks to 3min now right?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[young mural]

yhea i thought forge was more impactful, so it seems this really is the stronger option w/ a passive

[hazy breach]

Im not home so cant sim if holding for that is good or not

[fleet wharf]

Any idea wha other classes are going to be gunning for prism with the stacks going up to 3 min now?

[young mural]

oh boy here it comes

[hazy breach]

But i suspect sim is gonna be mostly indifferent

[young mural]

holding trinket for 3min

[hazy breach]

Obviously for damage amps you would

[nova cairn]

I presume you just do a natty opener

No trinket just raw dog jt

[hazy breach]

If any dks, warrior and monk

[nova cairn]

Then 1:30 opener is prism

1:30 cds***

[young mural]

yhea thats what im thinking too

[hazy breach]

But think most of those really want an on-use with BL on pull

[fleet wharf]

So it'll be quite hotly contested, huh?

[hazy breach]

Ye

[nova cairn]

that gonna be strange

[young mural]

I mean, if your guild uses sims to decide who gets loot, sub is probably pretty high on prio list for prism

[hazy breach]

Not nearly as contested as forge if i had to guess

[lilac stag]

The holding when you have lust and or PI for prism isn’t going to happen imo. Sub not giving a shit about lust works for us in this case.

[hazy breach]

But i dont keep up with all the other 90s classes

[steel zinc]

100% for the 2nd boss you will just hold 3min for 50%

and then send everything with 1000 stacks in bl

[lilac stag]

I mean sure. If lust timings work out great. That was a play around mages on silken court deal.

[nova cairn]

Sub looks decent tho

Like the raid timings look decent for it

[lilac stag]

sure

I think farebound gonna pull ahead

But that channel is poopooing it. Hahah

[steel zinc]

pure boss dps fatebound is better imo

but well that highly depends what dmg the raids needs. Sub is more flexable on the dmg amp bosses

[lilac stag]

sub will have better survivability

Which isn’t to be discounted early on

[nova cairn]

I’ll have to look

On the Thursday

What people are playing

[steel zinc]

assa is a tank too just not as brainless as sub if you think about surviving

sub you have auto dr in dance and 10000% versa

[pulsar hemlock]

Can you gain prism stacks while the buff from the on use is active?

[nova cairn]

Yes

[lilac stag]

Sub you can basically stand in anything that will nearly one shot other melee

[grand wyvern]

don't tell my guild, they think i can play

[steel zinc]

If you look dmg taken

rogue is always bottom

[warm marlin]

im not entirely convinced you can't game prism a bit

if you play the symbols + 1 dance after the 90s flag (you can often double dance this window with the slight extra cdr from tier) you have so much dance cdr you can triple dance the big prism window

since it lasts 20s unlike hoc/transmitter etc

[hazy breach]

Maybe, but its probably gonna be more based of the situation rather than "always do this"

[warm marlin]

certainly

nice to have the option

[blissful yacht]

New here, whats your opinion on Subs performance in Mythic plus? I think its funny everybody putting sub in trash tier (without even playin PTR 😁)

[mighty citrus]

the whole point of mplus tier lists is just stupid

dont worry too much about it

[lone halo]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

No one plays rogue. Sub is arguably the least good of the three in m+. Don’t let the keep it from

[alpine wraith]

as rogue you only do dmg

and you are not top dmg

not much more to say

oh and also you dont buff others

people over the years kinda catched on that buffing everyone and doing the same dmg as other specs is kinda op

[short aurora]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[blissful yacht]

I will play sub anywas, just looks to me that its kinda dark horse which will be quite good in the end

[lilac stag]

just queue as assa and you’re fine.

[hollow spear]

Not sure I can follow this. Wdym by "symbols + 1 dance after the 90s flag"?

Just the normal flag window at 90s or something else?

[warm marlin]

like how right now you do 2 dances between flag 1 and 2 and then 1 raw symbols 1 dance between flag 2 and 3

on ptr instead of alternating you have the juice to sometimes do a flag 2x dance flag 2x dance flag 1x dance flag 2x dance style pattern

but if you don't do that 2x dance between flag 1 and 2 you maybe overcap a little bit

[hollow spear]

so you trade slightly overcapping vs. a triple dance window?

[warm marlin]

yea

[hollow spear]

if you hit a damage amp it's certainly worth it

[fathom adder]

i heard you just use sectec on cd even if you are not inside dance with the new set, is that true?

[hollow spear]

depending on the duration of the amp of course

[hazy breach]

Nothing new because of the set no

[fathom adder]

thank you

[steel zinc]

if your new to sub do not do that

[vestal escarp]

I see it's confirmed multiplicative for nimbles ans blades

[fathom adder]

no not new, just interested in whats being discussed for the patch

[vestal escarp]

On top of being on armor

[chrome palm]

[vestal escarp]

Nice i guess we wont get rid of bp for trickster anytime soon

[chrome palm]

Ijk still really good

Sub seems pretty decent in m+ after the tuning

I think someone said they fixed which coup gets buffed too

I’m really excited to try different builds in m+

Maybe shadowcraft for dungeons like streets and dark brew for bigger pulls or no shaman buff

[vestal escarp]

[fathom adder]

the shadowcraft one is the one with tea that gets posted here sometimes right? which ohne is the db version you play? is there a link?

[chrome palm]

It’s similar just dark brew and replicating shadows

Running tfd as well

[fathom adder]

i see, ty

[hazy breach]

Ye but im pretty sure thats close to a neutral change

As most of the time you end up supercharging the first coup

And now you end up with more flawless stacks instead

[chrome palm]

Ah

It happens pretty often for me outside of blades to supercharge both 2nd coup and sec tech when it comes up before dance as well

But I also cast 2nd coup outside of cds as well sometimes

I really wish they removed the fazed requirement it’s the only thing I don’t like about this tierset

Well not the only thing but it’s annoying in m+

[warm marlin]

The world isn’t ready for the dance coup+symbols macro coup sectec technology

So that the symbols catches hits 2-6 of the first coup but doesn’t supercharge it

[astral axle]

coup soup

[stuck linden]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

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[young crypt]

can anyone recommend me some sub rogue streamers to learn from?

[hazy breach]

Bro is in the kitchen

[warm marlin]

Burning the kitchen down

[steel zinc]

You always play tea

[bright sundial]

Tea?

[nova cairn]

@steel zinc have you re done trinket sims since the changes

[steel zinc]

yeah earlier this morning

you can scroll up

[nova cairn]

Ohh that was the sim

Crackin okay

[honest dome]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[graceful crown]

Whats the timing for Tea? for mastery buff or energy recovery?

[steel zinc]

bind to dance

[graceful crown]

alright thanks!

[sour forum]

!fuu

[twin quartz]

Does sub still occasionally throw a black powder in single target if coup becomes available within a couple seconds before a shadowdance/shadowblades? I can’t remember how small of a dps gain/loss it is to do this

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

You're usually better off just backstabbing if your cooldowns are in a good place before blades

Farming SHT stacks

[sour forum]

so...do u still do backstab first in dance nowadays for DM stacks?

or at some point in dance

[twin quartz]

I do in single target with first dance, but not in aoe

[nova cairn]

Yeah but it’s a minimal gain i believe

[sour forum]

i assume the rotation mostly stays the same as last tier, main difference is we get more coups, so sectec first spender

[nova cairn]

Basically

[idle aurora]

Woah wait I just learned something

I think I know why I am starved sometimes lol. So going into first flag 2 dances then in between 2 dances and at like 23 seconds have to pool. Then flag window again for 2 dances. Then it’s ONlY 1 dance between flag 2 and 3?!?

[hazy breach]

You cant always fit 2 dances inbetween no

[idle aurora]

But if I have like 23+ seconds it’s pretty safe right?

I kinda use that as my go or no go window

[clever delta]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

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[clever delta]

where the race sims go

was thinking being dwarf again 😄

[loud brook]

Is it true chain pull does not hurt as much as assa do for subtlety?

[hazy breach]

Stealth is irrelevant as sub

[steel zinc]

kinda you vanish early a pack to get tfd for a big next pull with cds

[hazy breach]

(almost, you technically gain a few cps but its negligible in this context)

[hazy breach]

You can sometimes do that yes, but thats not really relevant when talking about chain pulls

[steel zinc]

yeah true

chaining its w/e

but true chaining not chaining a 5% single mob 😄

[solemn lance]

Man even with the buffs I think we still would be 5.2 or 5.3 max ST