#subtlety | Ravenholdt | Page 405

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:28 PM

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What

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:29 PM

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that's like saying you're happy with a raw steak bc the chef won't cook it bc at least you got something

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:29 PM

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Shadowed finishers do get cleaved, they just get reduced by armor when they shouldnt

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 1:29 PM

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swift tinsel that's like saying you're happy with a raw steak bc the chef won't cook it bc at...

what other kind of steaks r there

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:29 PM

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ignore the filet on the other tables

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if they leave ours out in the sun long enough maybe it will cook before too many people notice the smell

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Pepegrin

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 1:31 PM

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u dont go further than medium rare anyway so

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(i hope)

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:33 PM

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void ocean u dont go further than medium rare anyway so

only maga goes more than that

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 1:34 PM

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lilac stag only maga goes more than that

https://tenor.com/view/who-dat-snoop-gif-15116696

Tenor

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:34 PM

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void ocean https://tenor.com/view/who-dat-snoop-gif-15116696

https://tenor.com/view/trump-dance-ymca-gif-17490841005794834599

Tenor

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 1:34 PM

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oooh

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i tho bbq is a republican thing

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:36 PM

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an inlaw went from enjoying med rare to all of the sudden wanting well done. re: the dufus in chief

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dead

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 1:36 PM

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good lord

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why would someone eat charcoal

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:36 PM

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dressed with katsup

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🤮

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 1:37 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/code-zin-sin-further-from-god-everyday-we-zin-code-zin-esper-arena-s4-league-gif-1051423351439969293

Tenor

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 1:38 PM

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hazy breach Shadowed finishers do get cleaved, they just get reduced by armor when they shou...

Sorry I dont get that really

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What gear the mob has?

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:38 PM

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Mobs have 30% damage reduction from armor

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 1:40 PM

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like every mob no matter what type?

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:40 PM

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So lets assume no fazed and no fw.
Phys evis does 100 damage and cleaves 65 damage
Shadow evis does 100 damage cleaves 45.5 damage, because its reduced by 30%

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:40 PM

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steel zinc like every mob no matter what type?

Yes

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 1:41 PM

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ohhh

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:41 PM

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yep, stellar design

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 1:41 PM

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imagine explaining that to someone who plays the spec brand new

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:42 PM

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imagine armor still being a factor in pve

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 1:42 PM

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bring back arp

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:42 PM

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You can also just say that it does less damage than it should

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:42 PM

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warriors sundering again, we get expose armor, arp bis stat

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 1:42 PM

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hazy breach You can also just say that it does less damage than it should

yeah but still thats just bad.

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 1:43 PM

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hazy breach So lets assume no fazed and no fw. Phys evis does 100 damage and cleaves 65 dama...

imagine if shadowed finishers just didn't exist thoughts?

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 1:43 PM

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make dismantle pve

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:43 PM

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tepid trellis imagine if shadowed finishers just didn't exist thoughts?

That would tank the bug economy

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:43 PM

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too big to fail

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:44 PM

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And make for more satsifying numbers

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:44 PM

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maybe they will nightstalker it

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yea i hate it so much

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maybe we need to do some omegarant

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:44 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-jim-carrey-dumb-and-dumber-jim-carrey-i-don't-hear-you-gif-3811443321419152098

Tenor

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realz reading sub channel

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:45 PM

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that makes me have an idea today i will rant like no one does

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:45 PM

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I might hop back on ptr and file individual bug reports for each bug again

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 1:46 PM

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hazy breach That would tank the bug economy

cant wait for the 20% aura buff to sub and 66% nerf to tierset

runic trail Jul 23, 2025, 1:46 PM

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swift tinsel I might hop back on ptr and file individual bug reports for each bug again

Doing gods work

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 1:46 PM

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once a fcking again

keen dome Jul 23, 2025, 1:46 PM

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Nooo, this season will be good. We'll be strong, noooo

upper narwhal Jul 23, 2025, 1:46 PM

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🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♀️

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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tepid trellis imagine if shadowed finishers just didn't exist thoughts?

they came with legion I remember. Tbh concept is nice just bad execution

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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no

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it was with SL

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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tepid trellis cant wait for the 20% aura buff to sub and 66% nerf to tierset

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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its problematic baseline

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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really?

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SL?

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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yes

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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yar

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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shadowed began in SL yes

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the scourge

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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finality was then legion or?

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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yea

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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ok

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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legion was big DFA numba

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 1:47 PM

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mixed them up

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yeah best spell dfa

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:48 PM

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BFA was omegabit crit

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:48 PM

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then sl was finality leggo

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:48 PM

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let me link the clip it is my moment

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:48 PM

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df put it in the tree

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:48 PM

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jk

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 1:48 PM

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shadowed was just called Evis rank 2 and blackpowder rank 2

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:48 PM

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man draenor was such a good exp

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ahead of its time

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making all finishers useful imagine

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now we dont even press snd and rupture is so boring

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:48 PM

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imagine having a dev

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or one that actually has time for the specs

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:49 PM

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we didnt deserve sephuz

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:49 PM

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ours went to fel hammer for milk and cigarettes and never made it there

graceful osprey Jul 23, 2025, 1:49 PM

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Rogue dev? Never heard of them

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:49 PM

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dh neglected too lol

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:49 PM

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alpine wraith we didnt deserve sephuz

so legendary he got a legendary

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:49 PM

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but also legion was a crackpipe of changes

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:49 PM

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is that old rogue dev?

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:49 PM

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i really disliked many iterations inside that expansion

shut jay Jul 23, 2025, 1:49 PM

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when the next wave of blizzard job cuts come we'll lose our dev and nothing will change

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:49 PM

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there were no class devs kinda i think it was always teams

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:50 PM

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sephuz got cred for a lot of the ideas

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:50 PM

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Shadowed finisher themselves are also weird because if you compare it to the physical part its not actually doing 30%, its doing around 43%

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:50 PM

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i only remember sephuz because we talked about sinister calling

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more than once

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:50 PM

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But thats because of armor garf_sit

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:50 PM

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why tf does armor still exist

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spell res gone

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:50 PM

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PVP

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kekw

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 1:50 PM

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cuz reasons

shut jay Jul 23, 2025, 1:50 PM

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so we can find it's weakness

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:50 PM

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to make you feel horrible vs plate

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:50 PM

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all armor mitigation abilities gone besides fw

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:50 PM

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as if a 40%+ nerf to evis was not enough

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:51 PM

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keep it in pvp for the sweatlords

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:51 PM

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or vs shield specs

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:51 PM

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i think pvp maybe one of the few things more ignored than rogue

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:51 PM

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Phys evis does 100 > get reduced by 23% by armor (since you have find weakness up) > it does 77 damage
Shadow evis does 30% of 100, aka 30 damage, and then with deeper daggers and veiltouched it gets to around 34, aka 43-44% of 77

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 1:52 PM

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lilac stag or one that actually has time for the specs

This is I think the issue

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Like they are always chasing their own tail

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:53 PM

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i can't imagine any dev sits there and goes what can I ignore or completly fuck over today

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maybe theyre all angry who knows

warm marlin Jul 23, 2025, 1:53 PM

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hazy breach Phys evis does 100 > get reduced by 23% by armor (since you have find weakness u...

Presumably this means that nimble shadow evis actually cleaves at 30% since it does end up getting reduced by armor then right

brittle plinth Jul 23, 2025, 1:53 PM

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WoD was amazing

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hmm!!

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well shit, the convo changed after I hit enter

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now I look foolish

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 1:54 PM

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point and laugh at this guy

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:54 PM

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warm marlin Presumably this means that nimble shadow evis actually cleaves at 30% since it d...

Yes

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 1:54 PM

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ultraomegalul

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 1:54 PM

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PepeLaugh

warm marlin Jul 23, 2025, 1:54 PM

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hazy breach Yes

See not a bug 🧠

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:54 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/meme-9gag-memes-gif-26190013

Tenor

runic trail Jul 23, 2025, 1:54 PM

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kekdog

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 1:55 PM

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Its like how two negatives makes positive, two bugs combine to make something sort of right

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:55 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/hopefully-it-will-work-poetry-sort-of-rhyme-gif-15168097

Tenor

vestal escarp Jul 23, 2025, 1:55 PM

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Where is it written that doing less dmg is a right?

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kekdog

brittle plinth Jul 23, 2025, 1:56 PM

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Rogue Handbook, Page 2

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Sadly we cant prove it, because in order to be a rogue means we cant read

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 1:57 PM

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think thats not how things work

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 1:58 PM

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the key is for nothing to work

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then it all works together

spice matrix Jul 23, 2025, 1:59 PM

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!log

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 1:59 PM

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i still find funny how coup manages to introduce more bugs

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hero talents oh boi

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lets not talk about the DS bugs too

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 2:00 PM

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you mean only sod consuming marks while dn is up

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or that the 2pc buff completely ignores sod duration

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:00 PM

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think they made that a feature to F us over

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 2:00 PM

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hey want your tree to work with plague damage? too bad

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:01 PM

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remember they also had to buff all plague dmg for sub by like 40%+

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and it is still horrible

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 2:01 PM

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Beedrill look ahh spec

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:01 PM

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or they could buff fatal intent by 1000%

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and it would still be mid as f

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 2:02 PM

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fix fundamentally broken talent tree or slap aimless buffs on stuff that break other things

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sweatbuttonmeme.jpeg

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except there's no button on the fix pic

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:03 PM

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i mean if you look at deathstalker's mark dmg

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across the expansion

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it is silly

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how many times it has been buffed here or there

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shit will almost do 2m crits now

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 2:04 PM

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hey thats one UB

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:04 PM

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yea that too for some reason our builders and ub got turbo buffed

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instead of finishers

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we have like 70% crit dmg

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on builders

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da fuq

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 2:07 PM

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You strike a target for 100 damage, it cleaves 56 damage with nimble
You strike crit a target for 270 damage, but since the extra crit damage doesnt get cleaved you cleave 112 damage instead of 151

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garf_sit

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 2:08 PM

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Imo this is some overdesign

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that leads then to bugs

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its like in football you would make different corners of the goal give extra 0.1 goal count xD

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 2:08 PM

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No theyve just coded it in a way where they need to manually add and change everything so sometimes they forget things

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 2:09 PM

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hazy breach No theyve just coded it in a way where they need to manually add and change ever...

Luckly the are designing a game and not a doctor

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 2:10 PM

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Like instead of shadowed finishers literally just doing 30% of the damage of the physical part of eviscerate

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Its its own seperate spell, with its own seperate modifiers and stuff, which they then forget about as they only add the main phys evisc part to new sets and bonuses

mighty citrus Jul 23, 2025, 2:10 PM

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is it important in todays wow that styles do mixed type of dmg?

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why cant they just do this is a and that is b

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:11 PM

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they would need to change the framework

mighty citrus Jul 23, 2025, 2:11 PM

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but in terms of lowering complexity, this could be a step no?

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but i guess as always

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too much effort with no big outcome

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:12 PM

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yea but cleaning shit up does not help shareholder value short term

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so unluck

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we ran out of time

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more luck next expansion

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:12 PM

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all comes back to the problem of complicating design

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:12 PM

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oh wait no we are behind the 12th shadow rework

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sorry rogues

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you already work fine right?

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:12 PM

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devs basically get to eat their own food

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:13 PM

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making coup 3 hits could only lead to problems

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 2:13 PM

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alpine wraith you already work fine right?

B to B+ so good enough for our dev

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:13 PM

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having nimble being so weird also could only lead to problems

mighty citrus Jul 23, 2025, 2:13 PM

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i mean its kinda of a vicious circle right. number of rogueplayers are so low, so we have prio z

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maybe more guys playing priest 😄

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:13 PM

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having shadowed as separate instances of dmg could only lead

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to

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problems

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aAAAAaAAaaAaAa

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 2:14 PM

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vale pine all comes back to the problem of complicating design

Ye and instead of spending an extra hour to make something solid they have to spend 5 hours next month to fix the thing that wasnt solid after it broke

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:14 PM

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or adding a dash to coup

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:14 PM

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or

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you know

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they can just not fix it

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:14 PM

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so we can kill ourselves more effectively

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:14 PM

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and ignore it

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 2:14 PM

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the blizz motto

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:14 PM

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like this season's tier set

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:14 PM

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because these decisions happened in bfa already

mighty citrus Jul 23, 2025, 2:14 PM

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alpine wraith or adding a dash to coup

imagine still having dash with new setp 😄

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:14 PM

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wont ever get fixed

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 2:14 PM

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I could see how surprising strikes wouldn't be intended to cleave its crit damage, but lethality makes 0 sense since it applies always

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:14 PM

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its just more of the same was added on top

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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because as eleem said they have to manually add all the things

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and cba

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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man imagine if you could just

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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remember the nightstalker situation

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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not do your job

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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it is probably also a tooling issue

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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or when they took goremaw off nimble

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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or skip parts of it at zero consequence

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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and just forgot the whole expansion

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that it exists

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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usually you should have your build system automatically update dependencies

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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i mean we already saw their version control

brisk onyx Jul 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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Maybe they can refer to ret, change shadowed to "shadow strike" and shadow strike + XX% damage, everything will become more intuitive

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:15 PM

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but for wow it seems like everything is done manually

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which leads to all this problems

runic trail Jul 23, 2025, 2:16 PM

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I still think we really need a wow 2.0, rebuild from the ground up at this point

ripe flame Jul 23, 2025, 2:16 PM

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idk that doesnt sound plausible

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:17 PM

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wow 2 won't happen

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simply because of cost/benefit

runic trail Jul 23, 2025, 2:17 PM

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Yeah, but I can dream can't I uglyassdog

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:17 PM

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the company wants to make money with least effort

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:17 PM

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you wont ever convince investors to do wow 2

ripe flame Jul 23, 2025, 2:17 PM

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uglyassdog

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:17 PM

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wow rn is on the path like fuu said least effort most money

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:17 PM

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why would they spend money and lower profits

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:17 PM

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if they were intelligent they would reinvest a lot like gachas do

vestal escarp Jul 23, 2025, 2:17 PM

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we get wow 2

runic trail Jul 23, 2025, 2:17 PM

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Why must line go up, why not line stay the same for a bit HOLY

rotund pawn Jul 23, 2025, 2:17 PM

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in ff14 community i believe "spaghetti code" and "old engine" is a meme at this point as an excuse not to implement newer and better features

vestal escarp Jul 23, 2025, 2:17 PM

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and rog still has shadowed finishers

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 2:18 PM

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alpine wraith i mean we already saw their version control

where?

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 2:18 PM

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runic trail Why must line go up, why not line stay the same for a bit <:HOLY:125089344018357...

shareholder capitalism says hello

runic trail Jul 23, 2025, 2:18 PM

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swift tinsel shareholder capitalism says hello

I hate it uglyassdog

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 2:18 PM

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rotund pawn in ff14 community i believe "spaghetti code" and "old engine" is a meme at this ...

spaghetti code is what we use too

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:18 PM

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north schooner where?

they pushed a patch on live

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without the changes from ptr

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and broke everything

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more than once

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 2:19 PM

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ah ok in that sense

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:19 PM

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wow might have an spaghetti code but also a big parallel terminal manual imput problem too

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where people need to manually punch shit in the punchcards for shit to work

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every

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single

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time

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they do a change

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 2:20 PM

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I thought there were some details on what they are using and how when they are breaking things like that

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:21 PM

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maybe microsoft with AI will finally do some code cleaning

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after firing some more people

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 2:23 PM

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I can't wait for AI devs to perfectly balance the game Okay

fathom adder Jul 23, 2025, 2:24 PM

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you can use 8 gcds inside of dance, right?

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:24 PM

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yes

fathom adder Jul 23, 2025, 2:24 PM

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thank you

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:26 PM

#

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oh no

astral axle Jul 23, 2025, 2:30 PM

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im baffled by this ngl

keen dome Jul 23, 2025, 2:30 PM

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same

astral axle Jul 23, 2025, 2:31 PM

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ig they just want the fish sticks to be something we deal with guaranteed

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sociopath behavior fr

fathom adder Jul 23, 2025, 2:32 PM

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i am still unsure when to use sectec outside of dance. For example if i just did the 2 dances with cds and aim to do 2 dances between cds i do not use it outside most of time to save symbols charges - if i only do the one dance in between i tend to use one symbol with it outside of dance. Wowhead just says symbols with sectec outside of dance but do you do it always when you have them or how do you decide it.

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:32 PM

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fathom adder i am still unsure when to use sectec outside of dance. For example if i just did...

we dont really care bout 2 dance between cds

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with new tier you kinda use sec tech on cd

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if you can dance cool

fathom adder Jul 23, 2025, 2:33 PM

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thought its always 2 with cs - 2 between - 2 in cds - 1 between repeat

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right now

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:33 PM

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you do want to have it up for flag but for other things it is more important to keep the train going

astral axle Jul 23, 2025, 2:33 PM

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you can dance... if you want to Cheesin

fathom adder Jul 23, 2025, 2:33 PM

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pepe_chad

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:33 PM

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not always because of uptime

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but you can sometimes triple dance cds

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other times you cant

fathom adder Jul 23, 2025, 2:34 PM

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ok thank you

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why do you use sectec on cd with new tier?

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:34 PM

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the 1 dance in between will happen but sooner or later

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:34 PM

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fathom adder why do you use sectec on cd with new tier?

the 2 set makes unseens more important

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then 4 set makes coup more impactful and give extra cdr

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for ex a funny thing is now you can even dance with sec tech on 20 secs cd if you have fazed+fw up with coup

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and do coup SoD coup sec tech

fathom adder Jul 23, 2025, 2:35 PM

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because of the extra sd reduction with coup?

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:35 PM

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with the builders needed in between etc

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then you get 2 more unseens

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and maybe even proc another coup in that dance

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if you rng a double hit

fathom adder Jul 23, 2025, 2:36 PM

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sounds nice

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:36 PM

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dances outside cds are not huge but it can be very highrolly

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esp you can get to 20+ flawless stacks

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if you begin to go super saiyan 3 mode

fathom adder Jul 23, 2025, 2:37 PM

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thank you

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good to know

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 2:37 PM

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you can try things in ptr even with high ping to get an idea

carmine portal Jul 23, 2025, 2:56 PM

#

Any good nameplate presets out there? Using quazii's for a while now and looking for a changeup

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 2:56 PM

#

jundies is solid

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 3:02 PM

#

what don’t you like about quazii’s? His and Jundies are very similar

carmine portal Jul 23, 2025, 3:03 PM

#

Nothing in particular, just wondered if there was a "better" one out there, haven't checked in a long time

#

I always auto download his

clever delta Jul 23, 2025, 3:06 PM

#

kush doing some Tea keys 😄

#

it slap

vestal escarp Jul 23, 2025, 3:13 PM

#

Surely is tea

#

OP capstone for sub

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 3:13 PM

#

its on the table for m+ next season

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 3:17 PM

#

as we get more crit cb is not that important

#

but still idk

clever delta Jul 23, 2025, 3:38 PM

#

he said need vigor for keys

#

but idk

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 3:40 PM

#

hmm vigor can help to not overcap energy as much on dance

#

maybe that has some value coming out of it to get ruptures out etc

haughty mural Jul 23, 2025, 3:42 PM

#

clever delta kush doing some Tea keys 😄

I feel he does that every preseason
Might be wrong

clever delta Jul 23, 2025, 3:42 PM

#

true 😄

void hound Jul 23, 2025, 3:47 PM

#

any cool new tech for the next patch?

#

or is it a nothing burger

vestal escarp Jul 23, 2025, 3:52 PM

#

Nothing changed

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 3:54 PM

#

haughty mural I feel he does that every preseason Might be wrong

every single season

#

"sub is unplayable without vigor + tea" procceeds to play non tea vigor builds

#

cuz its shown as better

#

for the 3rd season

#

in a row

#

🙀

vestal escarp Jul 23, 2025, 3:55 PM

#

It's just his bit in stream

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 3:55 PM

#

he isnt the only one that does this

vestal escarp Jul 23, 2025, 3:55 PM

#

Like having to always try the db build

spice matrix Jul 23, 2025, 4:00 PM

#

anyone else feel like the 4pc is 90% instead of 15% to drop stacks lol

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 4:00 PM

#

nope

spice matrix Jul 23, 2025, 4:00 PM

#

must just be me

vestal escarp Jul 23, 2025, 4:01 PM

#

Sometimes is categorically first finisher outside dance but it's only a feel

spice matrix Jul 23, 2025, 4:03 PM

#

had this disaster during sprocket

#

2:15-3:35

haughty mural Jul 23, 2025, 4:14 PM

#

tepid trellis "sub is unplayable without vigor + tea" procceeds to play non tea vigor builds

Exactly dracthyr_kek

warm marlin Jul 23, 2025, 4:18 PM

#

spice matrix had this disaster during sprocket

Thankfully you’re doing no damage outside cds anyway gladge

#

and you omega stacked it insta in flag

spice matrix Jul 23, 2025, 4:25 PM

#

Smoge

compact violet Jul 23, 2025, 4:35 PM

#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT Jul 23, 2025, 4:35 PM

#

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

clever delta Jul 23, 2025, 4:37 PM

#

tepid trellis nope

r u around?

tepid trellis Jul 23, 2025, 4:40 PM

#

semi

clever delta Jul 23, 2025, 4:41 PM

#

if you happen to be ingame later, would you mind sharing your in melee WA? i remember your being very nice

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 4:42 PM

#

Tea seems fine to play in aoe now according to sims, still quite a bit behind in ST though

clever delta Jul 23, 2025, 4:42 PM

#

eleem idk if you did any keys recently

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 4:42 PM

#

As sectech does less damage relative to what it did before in s2

clever delta Jul 23, 2025, 4:42 PM

#

but sometimes im energy starved in non cds dance

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 4:42 PM

#

Ye

#

Tea wont really fix that

clever delta Jul 23, 2025, 4:42 PM

#

but vigor would?

#

you playing with big energy pool

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 4:43 PM

#

It doesnt really

clever delta Jul 23, 2025, 4:43 PM

#

which fill between pulls

haughty mural Jul 23, 2025, 4:43 PM

#

Maybe when we’ll get a gloomblade season back

clever delta Jul 23, 2025, 4:43 PM

#

im not saying its better or not

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 4:44 PM

#

Ive played with tea, you still miss globals in dances sometimes

clever delta Jul 23, 2025, 4:45 PM

#

~~almost never~~

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 4:47 PM

#

But ye, since cold blood is pretty much locked to sectech any change that buffs non-sectech finisher damage buffs tea relative to cb

haughty mural Jul 23, 2025, 4:48 PM

#

But wouldn’t that be the mastery and not the energy in this case ?

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 4:48 PM

#

Both

nocturne oriole Jul 23, 2025, 4:57 PM

#

!wa

wicked joltBOT Jul 23, 2025, 4:57 PM

#

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

shrewd lantern Jul 23, 2025, 5:07 PM

#

haughty mural Maybe when we’ll get a gloomblade season back

Don't speak the devil's name.

#

W_HuGunshot2

strange chasm Jul 23, 2025, 5:08 PM

#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT Jul 23, 2025, 5:08 PM

#

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 5:32 PM

#

spice matrix anyone else feel like the 4pc is 90% instead of 15% to drop stacks lol

Just don’t track it and you’ll never worry about it.

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 5:33 PM

#

where r gear vendors on ptr

lavish girder Jul 23, 2025, 5:38 PM

#

in dorn its outside the big building with the portals

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 5:42 PM

#

lavish girder in dorn its outside the big building with the portals

alright, found it, tnx

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 7:12 PM

#

No more tuning guys its joever

rocky ocean Jul 23, 2025, 7:13 PM

#

sub

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 7:16 PM

#

there is more tuning guys it's not joever

vestal escarp Jul 23, 2025, 7:22 PM

#

It's always joever

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 7:22 PM

#

I’ll wait for Friday before throwing in some doom

keen dome Jul 23, 2025, 7:24 PM

#

It's gonna be good, we're gonna be STRONG

ripe flame Jul 23, 2025, 7:24 PM

#

Never doom later what you can doom today

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 7:24 PM

#

I don’t want to go into another tier with a broken tier set lol

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 7:26 PM

#

clearly they know that 4p is broken and they have a fix already for their internal build. BlizZard never releases broken things 👍 🏄‍♀️ 🏄‍♂️

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 7:27 PM

#

Tell that to Sectech clones rolling their own Winning Streak dice all tier garf_sit

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 7:27 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/bob-ross-happy-accidents-gif-7215839

Tenor

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 7:27 PM

#

They knew that was broken the whole time too lol

hollow spear Jul 23, 2025, 7:28 PM

#

They should buff backstab and fix our energy regeneration. Sub's biggest issue is that too much of our power is in our burst window.

bleak night Jul 23, 2025, 7:28 PM

#

garf_sit

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 7:29 PM

#

Then they gotta give us another niche

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 7:29 PM

#

I don't see them touching the balance of dance and out of dance windows before midnight

bleak night Jul 23, 2025, 7:29 PM

#

they could turn sectec into a channel

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 7:29 PM

#

If you take the spec that only has burst and take power out of their burst, why

bleak night Jul 23, 2025, 7:29 PM

#

and make it give you combo points over time

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 7:29 PM

#

Oh man Chef

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 7:29 PM

#

or make it empowered

#

the more you empower the more shadow goats you summon

upper narwhal Jul 23, 2025, 7:30 PM

#

What if the secret technique was teleporting randomly while we attack our target?

astral axle Jul 23, 2025, 7:30 PM

#

i like when the number gets real big real fast garf_sit

warm marlin Jul 23, 2025, 7:30 PM

#

upper narwhal What if the secret technique was teleporting randomly while we attack our target...

MonkaChrist back demon

keen dome Jul 23, 2025, 7:31 PM

#

swift tinsel I don’t want to go into another tier with a broken tier set lol

Just make a WA that changes it's tooltip to be accurate. Problem solved.

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 7:31 PM

#

warm marlin <:MonkaChrist:1005305999109918751> back demon

What about if we jump into the air and do a backflip before coming crashing down

keen dome Jul 23, 2025, 7:32 PM

#

Only if we glow purple while doing it

warm marlin Jul 23, 2025, 7:32 PM

#

hazy breach What about if we jump into the air and do a backflip before coming crashing down

Sounds risky

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 7:32 PM

#

Sounds like some kind of Harm from the Sky

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 7:32 PM

#

you will be wearing kneepads

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 7:32 PM

#

Perhaps i could convince sir with falling through the floor sometimes instead of a backflip

keen dome Jul 23, 2025, 7:33 PM

#

That's how you really surprise them.

#

From above? that's obvious. From below? Secret technique

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 7:33 PM

#

The ol razzle dazzle

keen dome Jul 23, 2025, 7:34 PM

#

A new cooldown: MOLE MODE

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 7:34 PM

#

they could also make the tooltip even more vague to be even more secret

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 7:35 PM

#

I mean they already took the clones away

#

Why stop there

#

Blank tooltip

#

Doesn’t even appear on your action bar

upper narwhal Jul 23, 2025, 7:36 PM

#

keen dome A new cooldown: MOLE MODE

does 200% bonus damage in delves

hollow spear Jul 23, 2025, 7:37 PM

#

And it won't count to your damage

#

It will forever be it's own entity

keen dome Jul 23, 2025, 7:37 PM

#

Finally, Sub can be a pet class

north schooner Jul 23, 2025, 7:39 PM

#

it's already a pet class if you are sub enough Flushed

hollow spear Jul 23, 2025, 7:41 PM

#

4th rogue spec will be dom

keen dome Jul 23, 2025, 7:50 PM

#

It'll be a tank

viral phoenix Jul 23, 2025, 8:06 PM

#

!wa

wicked joltBOT Jul 23, 2025, 8:06 PM

#

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 8:25 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/antman-what-the-hell-happened-here-avengers-gif-18240147

Tenor

#

U guys overcooked 🤣

raw wigeon Jul 23, 2025, 8:35 PM

#

any sheet update ?

hollow spear Jul 23, 2025, 8:36 PM

#

No

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 8:36 PM

#

no its joever

#

no more sheets

#

just doom

hollow spear Jul 23, 2025, 8:36 PM

#

Sheet canceled due to damage amps

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 8:36 PM

#

if you doom you get changes. Not a raid buff but changes

hollow spear Jul 23, 2025, 8:37 PM

#

Twelve dudes dooming in a discord ain't changing nothing

raw wigeon Jul 23, 2025, 8:38 PM

#

season 3 i mean

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 8:38 PM

#

raw wigeon season 3 i mean

yes

#

its joever

raw wigeon Jul 23, 2025, 8:38 PM

#

👀

steel zinc Jul 23, 2025, 8:39 PM

#

we do our opener topping and then battle the tank

#

maybe sometimes the healer

raw wigeon Jul 23, 2025, 8:41 PM

#

rogue is op

#

the whole expantion

#

what are u talking about

#

sub for example

hollow spear Jul 23, 2025, 8:42 PM

#

The duality of man

woeful rain Jul 23, 2025, 8:46 PM

#

how many targets we BP as trickster?? 🙂

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 8:47 PM

#

When you have 5+ find weaknesses up in total, or 7 targets on average if youre not tracking fw

vale pine Jul 23, 2025, 8:47 PM

#

7+ targets or 5+ applications of find weakness

viral phoenix Jul 23, 2025, 8:59 PM

#

if you're in say 10 targets or whatever how important is it to keep Flawless up outside of dance if you're just storm BP'ing

#

still wanna cycle through EB stacks?

lean cradle Jul 23, 2025, 9:03 PM

#

anyone would be able to help me out? i dont know, i thought i know sub kind off well, that i execute rotation propely and hold my cds where they will pop off most, but ending gally and mugze with fucking super grey logs just proves im doing worse than shit but i have no clue what i am doing wrong

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 9:04 PM

#

!mistakes

wicked joltBOT Jul 23, 2025, 9:04 PM

#

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 9:04 PM

#

Try starting with these

swift tinsel Jul 23, 2025, 9:06 PM

#

viral phoenix if you're in say 10 targets or whatever how important is it to keep Flawless up ...

You’ll be cycling through dance faster in aoe because of the increased cdr/cp generation so you’ll have better flawless uptime

lean cradle Jul 23, 2025, 9:06 PM

#

yeah i did those, the only thing i didnt check tbh are 8globals in shadow dance

warm marlin Jul 23, 2025, 9:08 PM

#

viral phoenix if you're in say 10 targets or whatever how important is it to keep Flawless up ...

Gotta stab to proc coup, coup gets more cdr and 15% finisher damage for a bit, kind of happens naturally as you upkeep flawless form

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 9:14 PM

#

Are we back? Or is that 11.2.7? kekw

runic trail Jul 23, 2025, 9:16 PM

#

Can't be back if we never left.

hollow spear Jul 23, 2025, 9:24 PM

#

That's the spirit

#

We might become the rogue progression spec for the first time in a long time

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 9:34 PM

#

Guy says every tier is sub tier for progression. We trust in Guy. kekw

haughty mural Jul 23, 2025, 9:46 PM

#

Why are we dooming ?

#

What happened to 4pc

runic trail Jul 23, 2025, 9:47 PM

#

haughty mural What happened to 4pc

4pc still huge

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 9:51 PM

#

who is dooming?

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 9:51 PM

#

Something happened to 4pc?

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 9:52 PM

#

Nothing happened

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 9:52 PM

#

So why dooming

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 9:52 PM

#

void ocean So why dooming

#subtlety message

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 9:52 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/champagne-poppin-gif-10045067760193076534

Tenor

void ocean Jul 23, 2025, 9:53 PM

#

lilac stag https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/316923898501529600/1397697561766...

Its lingering doom

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 9:53 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/party-time-celebrate-dancing-confetti-gif-14565187

Tenor

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 9:54 PM

#

void ocean Its lingering doom

Sounds like an assa problem with deathstalker

haughty mural Jul 23, 2025, 10:05 PM

#

Oh they were memeing about current tier

#

Vacation brain can’t detect sarcasm and memes besad

hollow spear Jul 23, 2025, 10:20 PM

#

I'll only start dooming if I can't beat bums that play stronger classes

serene notch Jul 23, 2025, 10:24 PM

#

Don’t doom just play classic apparently Kek

#

https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/news/rogue-and-shadow-priest-end-the-expansion-on-top-mop-classic-pre-patch-dragon-377819

Wowhead

Rogue & Shadow Priest End the Expansion on Top - MoP Classic Pre-Pa...

Today, we are looking at the DPS rankings during the week of July 21st for the Mists of Pandaria Classic Pre-Patch in Dragon Soul. For this analysis, we will use data provided by Warcraft Logs Dragon Soul statistics.

#

I did not play in this time period is sub dramatically different in mop?

sullen hare Jul 23, 2025, 10:27 PM

#

All I remember about sub in dragon soul was that you had to keep up recuperate, slice and dice, and rupture in addition to doing shadow dances

#

It's been a long long time though

serene notch Jul 23, 2025, 10:30 PM

#

Frequent burst windows due to low cooldowns.

#

That’s pretty much the opposite of what we are today

hazy breach Jul 23, 2025, 10:31 PM

#

Is it

alpine wraith Jul 23, 2025, 10:38 PM

#

biggest diff on sub on mop is burst was 5 secs

#

not 24

#

but it also because there was a super op trink

#

called assurance of consecuence

#

so dance was like 40 to 30 secs instead of 60

lilac stag Jul 23, 2025, 10:41 PM

#

serene notch That’s pretty much the opposite of what we are today

We’re still frequent burst windows. It’s not excessive / non stop dances.

civic swallow Jul 24, 2025, 4:12 AM

#

Currently geared for Outlaw, how bad will my stats transition to Sub?

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 4:15 AM

#

That 19% haste? Near useless.
Low Mastery? Very Bad
No House of Cards? Big problemo.

civic swallow Jul 24, 2025, 4:15 AM

#

Got a champion HoC, but ya, i got a shit load of haste

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 4:16 AM

#

2 weeks. It really don’t matter. Trashpandascheme

serene notch Jul 24, 2025, 4:25 AM

#

Really excited for the new season. As the season ended waiting to get into keys only to brick within 5 mins was taxing.

#

Couldn’t push through my 16s.

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 4:46 AM

#

as sub

#

poggers

lean cradle Jul 24, 2025, 4:50 AM

#

nice

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 5:38 AM

#

easy work indeed sheee

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 6:23 AM

#

plush roost as sub

@tribal blade I bet you feel really dumb rn that you betrayed sub

#

dracthyr_hehe_animated

faint basalt Jul 24, 2025, 6:27 AM

#

plush roost easy work indeed sheee

xD, any reason you respecced to assa on mordreta?

chrome palm Jul 24, 2025, 6:30 AM

#

if you fraud sub you summon HIM lmao

faint basalt Jul 24, 2025, 6:34 AM

#

Im always wanted to see people playing on sub high keys. But just wondering, why respec on boss that you almost always top 1 boss dmg in dungeon

chrome palm Jul 24, 2025, 6:34 AM

#

probably tight timer and he knew he could do it during rp

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 6:42 AM

#

faint basalt xD, any reason you respecced to assa on mordreta?

Timer was tight and i send flag last 20 seconds of kulthorok so logically taking the free summon to have deathmark available and raid build on the rip was the play

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 6:42 AM

#

plush roost easy work indeed sheee

dam big. gz man gj!. Nice comp also build for sub.

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 6:42 AM

#

Would stay sub full key if it wasnt literally miliseconds

#

Also on mordretha i normally go assa into sub and i nuke the adds

#

Didnt want to deny funnel to my dh

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 6:45 AM

#

dh funnel is insane on that fight

#

also on the trash boss with the chains

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 6:45 AM

#

Yee

haughty rose Jul 24, 2025, 6:45 AM

#

yo i just read the ptr changes for sub.

BP 11% + nimble flurry changes sound huge. are they huge? are we pumping?

sorry if this was discussed earlier but discord makes it really hard to find previous messages about a certain topic

shadow oxide Jul 24, 2025, 6:45 AM

#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT Jul 24, 2025, 6:45 AM

#

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 6:46 AM

#

haughty rose yo i just read the ptr changes for sub. BP 11% + nimble flurry changes sound h...

Sub is a very solid A tier id say

#

Probably nerfed cause of raid tbh

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 6:46 AM

#

plush roost Sub is a very solid A tier id say

where would you put outlaw and assa?

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 6:46 AM

#

plush roost Probably nerfed cause of raid tbh

wdym?

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 6:47 AM

#

haughty rose yo i just read the ptr changes for sub. BP 11% + nimble flurry changes sound h...

in mass sustained aoe sub is bad rest is ok

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 6:47 AM

#

steel zinc wdym?

I think on the last 2 bosses sub will overperform and theyll knee jerk nerf

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 6:47 AM

#

yea that seems like a fair prediction. that's what happened to fury and shadow

#

wasn't sub also p good on court too?

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 6:48 AM

#

fleet wharf where would you put outlaw and assa?

Outlaw not bad aoe, kinda meh ST unless you get very good KiR. Middle of the pack imo

#

But i have only played around a bit on ptr nothing crazy

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 6:48 AM

#

is that like b tier in your mind?

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 6:48 AM

#

plush roost I think on the last 2 bosses sub will overperform and theyll knee jerk nerf

i think their other classes that have better burst in bl like arcane

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 6:49 AM

#

For raid yeah, for m+ itll still be good

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 6:49 AM

#

steel zinc i think their other classes that have better burst in bl like arcane

Yeah but arcane is likely to be nerfed as well haha

#

That spec is jesus on all content rn

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 6:49 AM

#

I feel assa will pick up some buffs either before tier launch or soon after tier launch like this tier

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 6:50 AM

#

fleet wharf I feel assa will pick up some buffs either before tier launch or soon after tier...

no in raid

#

like you can play it but its the same like this tier

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 6:51 AM

#

I feel that's not a bad place for assa and sub to be in

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 6:51 AM

#

if a fight really has an execute race not before then yes you play assa. Or if caustic does like on mugzee weird stuff

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 6:51 AM

#

the only thing I'm salty about is assa getting all the fun tools

#

they get the funnel and execute

#

even though it's kind of cursed, they also get to mess around with cd based on talents

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 6:52 AM

#

the issue is that subs funnel never got changed really and just added for example a fake blade flurry on top, its just other specs gottan way better

#

so sub perse has still funnel just other classes like DH or Arcane now are insane

#

like litterly insane

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 6:52 AM

#

they should just rename blade flurry to rogue bullshit since all 3 spec has it now

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 6:53 AM

#

Idk with current ptr tuning to me theres no point in evaluating specs

#

Some things are very clearly waaaay better than others

#

Like fdk, arcane

#

Hunter

#

Demo lock

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 6:53 AM

#

I thought fdk's breath got fixed? they're still op?

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 6:54 AM

#

fleet wharf I thought fdk's breath got fixed? they're still op?

yeah

#

they are op since they have no weakness

#

they have insane st insane aoe insane funnel and cant die

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 6:55 AM

#

I legit wanted to play fdk, but now don't want to because of how the community reacted to proposed changes

shrewd lantern Jul 24, 2025, 6:55 AM

#

are fdk players complaining about db rng still

#

or is the spec back to rider

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 6:55 AM

#

fleet wharf I legit wanted to play fdk, but now don't want to because of how the community r...

play w/e you like even up to lets say top 50 you can play w/e you like nearly

#

it barely matters

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:03 AM

#

The witch is dead btw

#

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 7:03 AM

#

damn

#

23k to 7k

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:03 AM

#

peepoRiot down with cursed idol

plush roost Jul 24, 2025, 7:03 AM

#

Down this the monster

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:05 AM

#

Now we have 2 shitty under budget on uses (1 a channel), an overtuned 2 minute, and a shitty spymaster poggies

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 7:06 AM

#

I thought spymasters was good

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:06 AM

#

It’s okay

#

it gives about the same amount of primary as a nerfed transmitter upscaled in ilvl

#

But you miss having stat for your first flag of the fight

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 7:07 AM

#

oh, so they tuned the numbers down from when they started testing huh

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:07 AM

#

so it’s not omega op like spymaster was, it’s just good

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 7:07 AM

#

would it be viable to run two on use or not?

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:07 AM

#

fleet wharf oh, so they tuned the numbers down from when they started testing huh

no it just was never tuned that high

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:08 AM

#

fleet wharf would it be viable to run two on use or not?

I don’t think the sims showed any combos being great

#

More likely you pretend to be a 2 min spec on some shorter kill timers and play the overtuned 2 minute trinket and play spymaster otherwise

chrome palm Jul 24, 2025, 7:09 AM

#

warm marlin

Wow that is absolutely garbage in st now

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:09 AM

#

ye it might be worse than lily

#

probably for the best who wants to press blades and then rip a 1 second channel garf

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 7:09 AM

#

But if the 2 min is overtuned now, isn't there a decent chance they nerf it before 11.2 launch?

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:10 AM

#

the hope is that the 2min gets nerfed a bit and spymaster gets buffed to be able to stack for 3 mins so you can at least do some interesting stack holding stuff but also it’s blizzard

chrome palm Jul 24, 2025, 7:11 AM

#

Forge is way stronger than signet (I say without seeing any sims) so maybe they nerf it

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:15 AM

#

Shrug

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:16 AM

#

At the same itemlevel the prism is 1% better then a hoc

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 7:16 AM

#

on how long of a sim?

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:17 AM

#

5 min

#

standard sim

#

I tested some trinkets a few days ago

#

double on use isnt bad but its worse then for example pacemaker and prism

#

I didnt sim the halls one since that was obvs overtuned

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:19 AM

#

Spymaster is very nice if you ever end up holding flag for damage amps or adds or anything too

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:19 AM

#

from what I seen sub is also the only class that really wants the prism as bis trinket

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:20 AM

#

It’s a good trinket

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:20 AM

#

you already depending on raid dps hold cds for 2nd boss burn phase with a 25% damage amp after 50% hp

#

like you hold now on vexxie

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:20 AM

#

It’s just that the int version in nerubar was like 5% better than the second best on use

#

It’s nowhere near that good

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:20 AM

#

warm marlin It’s just that the int version in nerubar was like 5% better than the second bes...

which is also bad imo since that trinket made or broke your spec

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:21 AM

#

warm marlin It’s nowhere near that good

That is a good thing

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:22 AM

#

perhaps

#

It’s nice to have it uncontested

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:25 AM

#

like its obvs an upgrade from some specs but most do not want it really

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 7:25 AM

#

cloud rover <@146180393941336064> I bet you feel really dumb rn that you betrayed sub

always 😉

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:25 AM

#

the cool thing about prism

#

is that you can pair it with forge kinda

#

sad thing is stacks are quite few

#

would be nicer if it had like a 5 min top end

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:25 AM

#

alpine wraith is that you can pair it with forge kinda

in st its like a 1% dps loss compared to pacemaker

#

but also sim needs some updates

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:26 AM

#

that is fine for more control but if you have a full uptime fight you can use pacemaker or antenna

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:26 AM

#

if we use forge might be worth using it on our 2nd sectech cb

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:26 AM

#

also i do want to try to change some things for forge

#

delay blades a bit so it covers 2nd and 3rd sec tech both of them

#

with forge

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:26 AM

#

thats so scuffed tbh

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:26 AM

#

problem is having it be able to get 3 dances on the other ones is a headache

#

not really flag lasts 24 secs

#

blades 16

#

we ramp up and get more flawless

#

no reason to use blades early

#

after premed

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:27 AM

#

and at the end of a mythic endboss fight that goes 8 min all your cds are screwed

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:27 AM

#

you still sync cds

#

they have the same cd

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:27 AM

#

that might work in a sim but I doubt ingame

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:27 AM

#

alpine wraith problem is having it be able to get 3 dances on the other ones is a headache

dracthyr_nod

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:28 AM

#

it works better ingame actually i just cant make it work on a sim ahaha

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:28 AM

#

ya I know just saying its really rough and highly fight dependend

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:28 AM

#

well that is the cool thing

#

imagine we can be fight dependant

#

instead of

#

2 MIN ON 2 MIN

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:28 AM

#

we are anyways

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:28 AM

#

AAAAaaA

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:28 AM

#

like to log gally you do all sorts of funky stuff with cds

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:28 AM

#

You can very easily force triple dance every flag in game but making robot do it is very hard

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:28 AM

#

yea idk i tried

#

but my brain is too small

#

the forge thing is kinda like ashes

#

so that one im more confident but also a passive one will be more overall dps

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:29 AM

#

I have an APL that does it but it’s like an egregious amount of wrangling and the whole thing is just disgusting

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:29 AM

#

we are just talking utility burst kinda

#

maybe this weekend i do some clips or videos explaining as a brainstorm

#

or do some logs too

#

i do expect antenna/pacemaker to be better overall but the idea of big burst and also prism snapper is kinda cool

#

specially the 4:30 one that has an almost fully stacked prism

#

without losing dmg on the 3 min a lot

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:33 AM

#

You also don’t actually overcap that much waiting for 3 minutes I feel

#

You’re just so energy starved outside cds that sometimes you aren’t insta proccing it every 10s

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:33 AM

#

you can do some things to cheat it a little

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 7:33 AM

#

Was often like 12-13s

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:34 AM

#

like using blind

#

or other things

#

actually i have to try and see if kick works too

#

but im at work

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:39 AM

#

alpine wraith like using blind

Does using blind give a dm stack?

#

No was dmg spells or?

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 7:40 AM

#

we are talking about prism

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 7:40 AM

#

Oh mb sry

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 8:02 AM

#

@vale pine uuuuu

#

can you give me the input for the raid buff sims

#

the sims are expired

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 8:03 AM

#

do we have any suggestions for trinkets on ptr

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 8:03 AM

#

no !

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 8:04 AM

#

what do u mean no

#

dont u no to me

vale pine Jul 24, 2025, 8:04 AM

#

leaden prairie can you give me the input for the raid buff sims

sure, but i will release s3 sims soon

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 8:04 AM

#

ye i just wanna check how much dk gains

vale pine Jul 24, 2025, 8:05 AM

#

profileset."wft"+=override.windfury_totem="1""
profileset."power_infusion"+=external_buffs.pool=power_infusion:120
profileset."power_infusion_fallback"+=external_buffs.power_infusion="6/126/246"
profileset."blessing_of_summer"+=external_buffs.blessing_of_summer=0/45/225
profileset."blessing_of_autumn"+=external_buffs.blessing_of_autumn=90/270
profileset."blessing_of_winter"+=external_buffs.blessing_of_winter=135/305
profileset."Bloodlust"+=override.bloodlust=0
profileset."Battle Shout"+=override.battle_shout=0
profileset."Mystical Touch"+=override.mystic_touch=0
profileset."Chaos Brand"+=override.chaos_brand=0
profileset."skyfury"+=override.skyfury=0
profileset."Mark of the Wild"+=override.mark_of_the_wild=0```

#

possible that i modified it in the sheet, thats the one i have on hand tho

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 8:07 AM

#

ty cuh

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 8:08 AM

#

vale pine ``` profileset."wft"+=override.windfury_totem="1"" profileset."power_infusion"+=...

you can remove wtf btw doesnt exist anymore

#

wft

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 8:08 AM

#

ehehe

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 8:09 AM

#

vale pine ``` profileset."wft"+=override.windfury_totem="1"" profileset."power_infusion"+=...

on the sheet do you start from all buffs, and then remove one everytime

#

that would make the most sense i guess?

#

or do you start from 0

#

and add one

vale pine Jul 24, 2025, 8:11 AM

#

for dungeon slice i did start with no bufs

#

for raid i removed them

#

you probaly need to add wft=0

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 8:11 AM

#

its skyfury now

vale pine Jul 24, 2025, 8:11 AM

#

nvm its skyfury so its whatever

#

i have both in the list ^^

#

thats why

#

(confused myelf)

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 8:14 AM

#

vale pine for dungeon slice i did start with no bufs

i wonder waht impact that has on like

#

if warrior is 5% alone, and monk is 5% alone

#

are both 10% or mroe cause it kinda double dip

#

know what i mean

vale pine Jul 24, 2025, 8:19 AM

#

i mean it makes sense this way because you usually "miss" a buff in raid

#

and you usually only have a small part of the buffs in m+

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 8:20 AM

#

ye i get you

#

i think its fine this way

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 8:21 AM

#

they gotta make raid dungeons agains

#

just to make it fun

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 8:22 AM

#

#

I got curious Okay

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 8:29 AM

#

quite the nerf

#

(deserved nerf)

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 8:44 AM

#

sly shore quite the nerf

I think its still very good

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 8:45 AM

#

vale pine sure, but i will release s3 sims soon

this week 🤞 ?

lyric cargo Jul 24, 2025, 9:07 AM

#

Hey guys a quick question like vexie and dmg amp fights when the fight drags too long(the intermission) and we get there like in 2 mins should I hold SB/Flag for 30 sec ? And just use dance/SB ?

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 9:08 AM

#

Depends on the amp amount and how long ur holding for, absolutely worth holding on vexie

lyric cargo Jul 24, 2025, 9:10 AM

#

Thanks Comfy I was doing so but just making sure if that was correct couse 30 sec felt a lot 😄

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 9:11 AM

#

it’s a bit unfortunate but you’re trading 1/3 of a cooldown timer to make a use 100% stronger

#

Even if you miss a use as a result you get to overlap flag blades with lust, get to save pot for the amp, get some melee cleave sometimes, etc

lyric cargo Jul 24, 2025, 9:15 AM

#

So when there is down time like this I can freely use dance/SoD and ST there ? And then wait for amp

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 9:15 AM

#

or respec to assa and double everyones dps 😄

lyric cargo Jul 24, 2025, 9:16 AM

#

Well played assa for 7 years kekdog

#

And wanted to have a little change okay

#

Also hate D. mark so much that playing sub is like going out of prision after 1 year

#

And finally be free

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 9:18 AM

#

lyric cargo So when there is down time like this I can freely use dance/SoD and ST there ? A...

You can be a bit more aggressive with sending ya

#

It’s mildly risky since if your guild members decide to be silly goofy and start the burn early you are very sad

#

But Shrug

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:19 AM

#

lyric cargo And finally be free

You’ll be back in it in a couple of weeks. garf_sit

lyric cargo Jul 24, 2025, 9:19 AM

#

Nah I will be back maybe when FB is viable insanecat

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:20 AM

#

New found spec hope is so much fun. Trashpandascheme

#

Enjoy your stay!

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 9:21 AM

#

lyric cargo Nah I will be back maybe when FB is viable <a:insanecat:1093978367159717991>

Never back confirmed kekdog

lyric cargo Jul 24, 2025, 9:22 AM

#

Yeahh Maybe in Midnight sadcat

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:23 AM

#

runic trail Never back confirmed <:kekdog:907207037757296710>

Or idk when sub is the worst spec of the 3 in m+ and competing with aug in dps in raid. omegalul

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 9:24 AM

#

isn't aug beating like half the specs in the game rn

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:24 AM

#

New tier new hopium.

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:24 AM

#

fleet wharf isn't aug beating like half the specs in the game rn

It was just sub getting beat for a month.

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 9:25 AM

#

yea, it felt really bad being about even with balance and aug in st lol

vale pine Jul 24, 2025, 9:25 AM

#

steel zinc this week 🤞 ?

yes

lyric cargo Jul 24, 2025, 9:26 AM

#

Well Idc about dmg 😄 for now(RL will make me switch spec) atleast but SUB just feels so fluid dracthyr_love

#

I am like swiss knife of our guild playing what we need (But rogue have special place in my heart) Comfy

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 9:30 AM

#

I just make sure to die as soon as I'm made to play another class, they only trust me on rogue now kekdog

lyric cargo Jul 24, 2025, 9:31 AM

#

Well we had no vokers for this season so I played that but its just so bland so I am happy that i dont need to play that anymore okay

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 9:34 AM

#

Im the only guaranteed rogue in my guild

#

sometimes someone respec to it

#

11.2 looks like i will be the only one

lyric cargo Jul 24, 2025, 9:36 AM

#

I was whole DF, WW is like S1 lock, now voker but s3 i can finally play Rogue dracthyr_love

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:38 AM

#

void ocean sometimes someone respec to it

They last 3 weeks or less. kekw

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 9:39 AM

#

naa, we lock down our team at the beginning of the season

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:39 AM

#

so do we

lyric cargo Jul 24, 2025, 9:39 AM

#

Well we had 6Monks S1 guess how much we have now doge

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:39 AM

#

the rogue rerolls end up quitting

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 9:39 AM

#

u dont get to change specs unless some critical situation like losing an important buff or smth

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:40 AM

#

I think longest was a full month. omegalul

lyric cargo Jul 24, 2025, 9:40 AM

#

We had no lock S1 so that made me switch but now the roster is finally stable so I can go back

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 9:40 AM

#

lilac stag I think longest was a full month. <:omegalul:585734084777476096>

Are they sensible or are we just insane then?

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 9:41 AM

#

actually, who are the normies of the wow community?

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:41 AM

#

runic trail Are they sensible or are we just insane then?

They’re the smart ones wearing shoes and owning homes. We’re the ones wearing grippy socks living in a padded room.

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 9:42 AM

#

wearing shoes indoor.. what?

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 9:42 AM

#

I keep looking into what I can play as alt to cover raid buffs and now I just have 3 rogues garf

fleet wharf Jul 24, 2025, 9:43 AM

#

rogue's poisons stack! lmao

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 9:43 AM

#

we have like 3 of every dps class and I am the only rogue

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 9:44 AM

#

lilac stag They’re the smart ones wearing shoes and owning homes. We’re the ones wearing gr...

Grippy socks are comfy as fuck though

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:45 AM

#

warm marlin we have like 3 of every dps class and I am the only rogue

I went shammy route. Maybe should have done dh.

#

our shaman roster is less stable of the 2

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 9:45 AM

#

I like stormbringer enh but totemic is so cringe to play

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:45 AM

#

good news is totemic tier doesn’t work

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 9:45 AM

#

i had enough fun moving windfury totem around all the time whose positioning didnt super matter

#

moving the quaking totem in splits this tier was no bueno

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:46 AM

#

I just added it to attacks.

#

can’t be arsed

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 9:46 AM

#

ya and then the boss runs all over the place and projection is on cd RAGEY

#

looking at u oab

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:47 AM

#

Blame the tanks. 2ez

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 9:47 AM

#

so true

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:48 AM

#

storm looks to be stronger right now

#

but you may end up playing one button without activating it. lol

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 9:50 AM

#

i like storm but totemic did feel more like df enh (minus the totem stuff)

#

ignoring lava lash entirely feels wrong

#

also @chrome palm care to explain? SUS

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:51 AM

#

Just spamming wind strike in ascension in s3 I think.

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 9:51 AM

#

that also looked omega cursed

#

i saw zorth just proc ascension/dre multiple times in a row and just do like 20 windstrike straight

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:52 AM

#

yea. Let’s break our wrist worse than fury

#

foot pedal time.

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 9:53 AM

#

I tried to follow the sub to survival hunter pathway but the spec ain't clicking for me yet

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:54 AM

#

you’re more builder focused

#

Not really finisher focused.

#

That’s it.

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 9:55 AM

#

I just need to figure out what I spend tip of the spear stacks on

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:58 AM

#

I haven’t looked at this seasons priority.

#

You only have so many options

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 9:58 AM

#

u log out. select ur hunter char. press delete. enter "delete" in the text box and confirm

#

thats the best rotation for surv

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 9:59 AM

#

just harpoon around and press buttons

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 10:00 AM

#

void ocean u log out. select ur hunter char. press delete. enter "delete" in the text box a...

Ye fair. I was just bored and the levelling event was on

lyric cargo Jul 24, 2025, 10:04 AM

#

Well I have 7 Druids leveled to 80 OMEGAKEKW

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 10:11 AM

#

lyric cargo Well I have 7 Druids leveled to 80 <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>

https://tenor.com/view/what-is-wrong-with-you-gif-24000193

Tenor

alpine wraith Jul 24, 2025, 10:11 AM

#

maybe multiboxer

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 10:13 AM

#

or RWF participant

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 10:25 AM

#

void ocean or RWF participant

No RWF participant is excited to be playing rogue. garf

vestal escarp Jul 24, 2025, 10:33 AM

#

Depends

#

Fresh out the box amirdrassil assa was quite exciting

dry plank Jul 24, 2025, 10:42 AM

#

warm marlin we have like 3 of every dps class and I am the only rogue

We have 3 rogue in roster now lol

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 10:43 AM

#

vestal escarp Fresh out the box amirdrassil assa was quite exciting

ah yes, best 3 weeks of my life

#

was PI target even

#

then ofc came the double whammy

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 10:49 AM

#

dry plank We have 3 rogue in roster now lol

Stop hoarding rogues wtf

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 10:50 AM

#

I wonder how many rogues the average rogue has

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 10:54 AM

#

keen dome I wonder how many rogues the average rogue has

atleast 2

#

idk cant imagine just playing my main class just once

#

During farm I played DH so I had 2 dhs

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 10:55 AM

#

Second rogue is so useful for transmog, too. Since you can, if youa ren't using it for content, burn cat charges

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 10:56 AM

#

I did think about a second rogue for outlaw, maybe

eager locust Jul 24, 2025, 10:56 AM

#

Is this fake news? I've heard so many people say sub is hopelessly bad in M+ next tier but this is saying otherwise

vestal escarp Jul 24, 2025, 10:58 AM

#

11 runs

#

Bruh what are we looking at

eager locust Jul 24, 2025, 10:59 AM

#

Sure 11 runs but in those runs they pumped 😂

daring marlin Jul 24, 2025, 10:59 AM

#

Can you send link

north schooner Jul 24, 2025, 10:59 AM

#

vestal escarp 11 runs

hey now that was all the sub rogues itw

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:00 AM

#

Pretty sure, like most data out of PTR, it's useless

#

Also 11 runs lol

eager locust Jul 24, 2025, 11:00 AM

#

It's a screenshot someone sent me but I'll get the link

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:00 AM

#

bad karina

#

sample size far too low

north schooner Jul 24, 2025, 11:00 AM

#

it's from mythicstats

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:00 AM

#

only shitters public logging on ptr

#

like @leaden prairie

eager locust Jul 24, 2025, 11:01 AM

#

I mean I'm not saying it means anything, I'm asking if it's enough to have a bit of hopium omegakekW

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:01 AM

#

frfr

north schooner Jul 24, 2025, 11:01 AM

#

zac is a shitter HOLY

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:01 AM

#

eager locust Is this fake news? I've heard so many people say sub is hopelessly bad in M+ nex...

Even on live this thing isn't really indicative of anything

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:01 AM

#

sly shore only shitters public logging on ptr

I wish you were obligated to log

#

Like it was just baseline to the game

#

So we could have real data

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:02 AM

#

That'd be really interesting

eager locust Jul 24, 2025, 11:02 AM

#

I can go do a ptr key and tank that number down alot omegakekW

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:02 AM

#

I am very curious about Blizz's in-built DPS meter and what it can mean for logging.

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:02 AM

#

Logs are way more valuable

#

than just a dps meter

#

it's not even close

warm marlin Jul 24, 2025, 11:03 AM

#

eager locust Is this fake news? I've heard so many people say sub is hopelessly bad in M+ nex...

Prospects are certainly a bit better after the aoe buffs

#

But ya little to no data so

wheat elk Jul 24, 2025, 11:03 AM

#

when you use your second shadow dance, will you immediately use symbles again even if symbels has still 4 seconds left?

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:04 AM

#

sly shore Logs are way more valuable

Private logging shouldn't be a thing, every game you have public logging like in league where you can get every data you want, it's way better

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 11:04 AM

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wheat elk when you use your second shadow dance, will you immediately use symbles again ev...

Use it so you have the charged combo points for the sectec

#

I believe

vestal escarp Jul 24, 2025, 11:04 AM

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I wouldn't hype myself for sub in m+, it hasnt been the best rog spec for keys since 4 seasons now and for a reason.
If it happens we'll take it gladly

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:05 AM

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leaden prairie Private logging shouldn't be a thing, every game you have public logging like in...

if blizz hosted their own wlogs sure

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:05 AM

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Private logging is silly

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:05 AM

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sly shore if blizz hosted their own wlogs sure

That'd be really interesting, and something that'd be fascinating for the game.

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:05 AM

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sly shore if blizz hosted their own wlogs sure

Wdym, opgg, u.gg etc

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Everything is done via public api

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The default one on league website have like 0 data compared to these

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:07 AM

#

wow has far far more data than a game of league

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and it's not even close

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would absolute throttle their api servers to send that much data through it lmao

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:08 AM

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Ah true I get what you mean

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Like it's sent by clients rn instead of a wow server

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Imagine if everyone logged tho

#

You could like

#

Spread the load

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Between each client

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 11:09 AM

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vestal escarp Fresh out the box amirdrassil assa was quite exciting

That’s almost 2 years ago at this point. We’re all much smarter now. peophammer

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:09 AM

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If it was automated I mean

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:10 AM

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lilac stag That’s almost 2 years ago at this point. We’re all much smarter now. <:peophamme...

Amidrassil is almost 2 Years ago huh

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:10 AM

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No way it is

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:10 AM

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More like 1 Year

#

right

#

TELL ITS ONLY 1 YEAR

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:10 AM

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Patch 10.2 Release Date. Patch 10.2 Guardians of the Dream launches on November 7th, 2023

#

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-solid4-mgs4-solid-snake-old-snake-becoming-old-gif-24179307

Tenor

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:10 AM

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FUCK

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 11:10 AM

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coolpanda

tawny yacht Jul 24, 2025, 11:10 AM

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!fuu

wicked joltBOT Jul 24, 2025, 11:10 AM

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Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:11 AM

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Fucking hell

#

Get me out

vestal escarp Jul 24, 2025, 11:11 AM

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Yup 2 years

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:12 AM

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where has time gone

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:12 AM

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keen dome where has time gone

Pandaria Remix was too much fun

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 11:12 AM

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keen dome where has time gone

same place sub’s dev went

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:12 AM

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We missed the time

sacred yarrow Jul 24, 2025, 11:13 AM

#

keen dome ```Patch 10.2 Release Date. Patch 10.2 Guardians of the Dream launches on Novemb...

https://tenor.com/view/tweaking-cat-tweaking-cat-help-gif-15027370981305715566

Tenor

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:13 AM

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real

sacred yarrow Jul 24, 2025, 11:13 AM

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man, we old

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 11:13 AM

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sacred yarrow https://tenor.com/view/tweaking-cat-tweaking-cat-help-gif-15027370981305715566

Is that cat okay uglyassdog

sacred yarrow Jul 24, 2025, 11:14 AM

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hes discombobulated

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 11:15 AM

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sacred yarrow hes discombobulated

No that's me

sick oak Jul 24, 2025, 11:15 AM

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there's no downside to macroing some cooldowns together (e.g. shadow dance and symbols) if I have the macro on a separate hotkey right?

sacred yarrow Jul 24, 2025, 11:15 AM

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runic trail No that's me

no, ur a goat, thats a cat

runic trail Jul 24, 2025, 11:15 AM

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sacred yarrow no, ur a goat, thats a cat

https://tenor.com/view/goat-scream-goat-goat-tongue-gif-13007773479701129316

Tenor

sacred yarrow Jul 24, 2025, 11:15 AM

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dracthyr_joy

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:16 AM

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leaden prairie Like it's sent by clients rn instead of a wow server

It's just saved locally which is why they can get away with storing so much data because it's opt in; if they make it essential then it'll probably cause grief because people are irresponsible with their disc space ICANT

#

or they create entirely new servers for it

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so it's not saved locally

hazy breach Jul 24, 2025, 11:16 AM

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sick oak there's no downside to macroing some cooldowns together (e.g. shadow dance and s...

Correct if you have them seperately bound elsewhere its fine

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I dont see why you would, but you do you

sick oak Jul 24, 2025, 11:17 AM

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pepeOK

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 11:17 AM

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sick oak there's no downside to macroing some cooldowns together (e.g. shadow dance and s...

We don’t macro here. There is downside.

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:17 AM

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sly shore It's just saved locally which is why they can get away with storing so much data...

Being surprised why you WoW Disk has only 20 GB left and realizing Logs Folder takes up 500 GB

sick oak Jul 24, 2025, 11:17 AM

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I just find it comfier to press a different keybind instead of 2 in a row when im using both instead of just 1

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 11:17 AM

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That’s fine

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If it works for you

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:18 AM

#

cloud rover Being surprised why you WoW Disk has only 20 GB left and realizing Logs Folder t...

rio app auto deletes when they 30 days old thankfully

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:19 AM

#

That happened to me before i installed rio app

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:20 AM

#

I manually delete mine

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Whenever I remember

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I have not remembered

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:25 AM

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Thats kinda small

#

10 GB what is 10 GB

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in 2025

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:26 AM

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sly shore It's just saved locally which is why they can get away with storing so much data...

Ok well it could auto delete, disc place isn't what I would be worried about, it's probably just that some people can't afford sending that much data maybe

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:26 AM

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log file over an evening is what 800MB?

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 11:26 AM

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cloud rover 10 GB what is 10 GB

average homemade porn

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:26 AM

#

sly shore log file over an evening is what 800MB?

Ye a big night maybe

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:26 AM

#

for 2 clears

#

I forget that's not normal to do

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WHEEZETao

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 11:27 AM

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weird flex...

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:27 AM

#

you gotta have mega shit internet and who do you decide

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cos if you have all 20 raiders uploading

#

multiplied by people raiding at that time

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that's insane data

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:27 AM

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Classic DDOS

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 11:28 AM

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eager locust Is this fake news? I've heard so many people say sub is hopelessly bad in M+ nex...

stats from ptr are nothing. For exmaple let kush or casual or other very good rogues go m+ they will make it work. Does not mean its good.

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:28 AM

#

sly shore multiplied by people raiding at that time

I mentioned you could spend the load potentially

#

If you have 15 people sending data they can all send 1/15 of the data

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:29 AM

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fragmenting data like that seems like it would be a nightmare

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:29 AM

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I don't see why

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:29 AM

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and more load on the game itself

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:29 AM

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Skil issue honestly

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:29 AM

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to split the data

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 11:29 AM

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leaden prairie Private logging shouldn't be a thing, every game you have public logging like in...

best are world 500 guilds privat logging OMEGALUL

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:29 AM

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especially when the game is struggling already ICANT

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 11:29 AM

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steel zinc stats from ptr are nothing. For exmaple let kush or casual or other very good ro...

if by hopelessly bad we mean "wont top overall dps"...

sacred yarrow Jul 24, 2025, 11:30 AM

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keen dome I have not remembered

I only raid HC and even I got 28GB in it 👀

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 11:30 AM

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void ocean if by hopelessly bad we mean "wont top overall dps"...

topping isnt a thing. Its about what sub fits into. Like arcane mage isnt topping either in live but its doing really good funnel and you play around the mage. Sub rogue has very good funnel just other classes are now way better even arguably sin hast better funnel

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:31 AM

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sacred yarrow I only raid HC and even I got 28GB in it 👀

I must've deleted it recently

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:31 AM

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steel zinc topping isnt a thing. Its about what sub fits into. Like arcane mage isnt toppin...

yup sin's funnel is very good

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:31 AM

#

steel zinc topping isnt a thing. Its about what sub fits into. Like arcane mage isnt toppin...

Sub rogue has 0 funnel tho?

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:31 AM

#

better than sub where you have to hard cap yourself

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true sub is prio

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 11:32 AM

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steel zinc topping isnt a thing. Its about what sub fits into. Like arcane mage isnt toppin...

i guess this is a thing in high keys like +17... I dont think there will be any problems for casual key enjoyers

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 11:35 AM

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void ocean i guess this is a thing in high keys like +17... I dont think there will be any ...

you can lit play any class day one and time +12

#

like that is not the issue

#

balance imo is decided at the top end

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:36 AM

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yeah balance only truly matters at the top end tbh

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:37 AM

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Fuck Balance players

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:37 AM

#

it's actually funny, arcane is an absolutely dogshit spec in low keys

steel zinc Jul 24, 2025, 11:37 AM

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tribal blade it's actually funny, arcane is an absolutely dogshit spec in low keys

yeah same as sin hybrid build

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:38 AM

#

because your big target you're touching is dying in 5 seconds flat

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:38 AM

#

steel zinc yeah same as sin hybrid build

yeah it's not good

#

even on 19-20s if you don't have a big enough target to DM+KB it'll die in the middle of your cds

#

like 1st pull of workshop

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 11:39 AM

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first room in dfc

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:39 AM

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1st room of dfc you have the big dude

#

all those big boys

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 11:39 AM

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like "oh cool, aoe" and before u say cheese its single target

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:39 AM

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dunno their names, the ones that shoot the other mobs everywhere

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:39 AM

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void ocean like "oh cool, aoe" and before u say cheese its single target

oh right haha

#

yeah those pulls are kinda stupid because people pad on the small shitter mobs

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 11:40 AM

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i mean it gets better when 2nd room is pulled together as well

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:40 AM

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i think they need to not have small shitter non elite mobs in M+

hazy breach Jul 24, 2025, 11:41 AM

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tribal blade yup sin's funnel is very good

Sins funnel is kinda too good now, so thats why their singletarget has to be awful

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:41 AM

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the standard 1st pull in dfc is you pull that big guy and all the small mobs into the 2nd room with the other mobs in there

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:41 AM

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hazy breach Sins funnel is kinda too good now, so thats why their singletarget has to be awf...

yeah sin on st feels kinda yikes w/o more targets 😦

sly shore Jul 24, 2025, 11:41 AM

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Ive never seen prio mobs die as fast as I have this expansion

#

Its outrageous

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:41 AM

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other specs breaking 2 mil

#

and i'm over here doing like 1.7-8m

hazy breach Jul 24, 2025, 11:41 AM

#

With new tier sin gains like 2x prio damage with 8+ mobs around

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:42 AM

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that's nuts

hazy breach Jul 24, 2025, 11:42 AM

#

Compared to just st

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:42 AM

#

hazy breach With new tier sin gains like 2x prio damage with 8+ mobs around

Oh they gain even more ?

#

That's crazy

#

S2 sin prio was already wild

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:43 AM

#

yeah big momma boss dam goes crazy as sin

leaden prairie Jul 24, 2025, 11:43 AM

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Well I guess it's not arcane

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:43 AM

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i guess the tradeoff is sin has more aoe

#

but less ST as well by a big margin

#

btw i've done a few keys with like sin/arcane/havoc

#

and jesus the prio

vestal escarp Jul 24, 2025, 11:45 AM

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Buzzsaw mechas just melt

#

Before the other guys

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:45 AM

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you can actually have too much prio damage

#

you don't need all 3 specs doing insane prio

shadow lance Jul 24, 2025, 11:46 AM

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But it's kinda the case

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 11:47 AM

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tribal blade yeah big momma boss dam goes crazy as sin

ffs u just reminded me we got another season of floodagte

#

who tf voted for that

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:47 AM

#

void ocean ffs u just reminded me we got another season of floodagte

WOOO

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:47 AM

#

void ocean who tf voted for that

the people who wanted pacemaker

#

the majority of wow players don't do high keys

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:47 AM

#

Floodgate is a cool dungeon

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:47 AM

#

so they all voted based on gear

vestal escarp Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

Subs prio with ds would be stronger

#

If only

#

If

#

Only

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

hazy breach Sins funnel is kinda too good now, so thats why their singletarget has to be awf...

As their ST gets buffed. dracthyr_shrug

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

But i hate dawnbreaker

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

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i dont do high keys, still wouldnt vote for Flod

vestal escarp Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

Chat chill

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

They killed bubbles

vestal escarp Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

Bubbles is out

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

that's what their vote did. Killed an innocent fish

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

floodgate is a rough key

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

rip bubbles

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

He was just saving you from having to run M+

cloud rover Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

Sad Bubbles Jr.

tribal blade Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

but it'll be much better with the changes i'm guessing

vestal escarp Jul 24, 2025, 11:48 AM

#

Fuck bubbles

lilac stag Jul 24, 2025, 11:49 AM

#

🎣

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 11:49 AM

#

tbf the worst part of flood for me is 2nd boss

keen dome Jul 24, 2025, 11:49 AM

#

What's the bet that the Dawnbreaker bugs still exist

void ocean Jul 24, 2025, 11:49 AM

#

just aiming at those bombs drunk is not easy