subtlety

[swift tinsel]

idk rogue atm is just 4 varations of stabby

plus big fart with bp

minor purple hands here and there

[tender granite]

they've even restricted access to cool moments like death from above

[glacial kraken]

coup's animation is sick tbh tho

[swift tinsel]

as has been stated, having kyveza-style clone dash attacks replace the current sectech clones would be such an easy layup

have three of them dash through the main target like contract animation

[lilac stag]

yeah i love recycled warrior animations

[swift tinsel]

lmao yeah isn't it just rampage

but slightly spinnier

[lilac stag]

rampage, with a twist

[glacial kraken]

i didn't notice that before

i hate it now

ty for ruining it

[lilac stag]

youre welcome

[swift tinsel]

didn't coup have a pirouette at one point

[tender granite]

surely midnight will be the vfx renaissance rogue and shadowpriest so desperately need

[glacial kraken]

they gonna make sub rupture turn the target purple or something

[tender granite]

@lilac stag 😦

[swift tinsel]

rupture is our most interesting animation

stab-stab-pullout-bleedy

[tender granite]

hot take but i'm fond of shadowstrike

[glacial kraken]

but what if it was purple

[lucid jackal]

I think the issue rogue visuals always are going to have is that rogue in wow is inherently low fantasy and has been for years

[tender granite]

I had hope in legion for the revision of outlaw to pirate and subtlety to ninja playing off that "pirates and ninjas" trope

[swift tinsel]

I think that's true for outlaw and assassination, but the shadow elements for sub would offer some design space

[lucid jackal]

I agree they could be a smidge better but I also don't want to be an anime character

[swift tinsel]

for sure, there's def a world where they push it too far and its ffxiv ninja

[glacial kraken]

black powder summons a big frog now

[tender granite]

sub still has strong fantasy ninja leanings with the hand symbols, shadow clones, teleporting behind you, etc

just needs maybe a little more juice somewhere

[swift tinsel]

I think things like making sectech clones actual shadow clones, giving evisc a punchier visual/sfx, etc would go a long way

my ninja brain would like to see us go almost transparent and appear as a shadow clone when we hit with abilities during dance

[tender granite]

outlaw is getting slowly turned from "pirate" to "gun" though

[lilac stag]

theyre prepping for gunslinger

[tender granite]

at this point i'd be down

[swift tinsel]

20 yard spec inc

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/ninja-sex-party-welcome-parents-house-gif-19304119

Best sub lore

[swift tinsel]

lmao if we became ninja brian

[keen dome]

we're dave though

[lilac stag]

and if they want lower visuals for a spec, they better make the audio satisfying. rogue is shit on both ends of the fx

[tender granite]

trying to think of cool ninja visuals we haven't tapped into yet

without becoming completely anime

[lilac stag]

backstab used to be sooooo satisying to press just from the sfx

[chrome palm]

I made a weak aura to play the DS3 crit sound when I sec tech in cold blood

[glacial kraken]

the return of smoke bomb

[swift tinsel]

the assassin crit animation from Fire Emblem for GBA

lemme see if I can find a gif

[void ocean]

We saw that

[tender granite]

bro i hate these new protective image/link formats that just don't work

[swift tinsel]

lol just got the same one and about to post

[tender granite]

great idea though, fire emblem animations are so crisp

[swift tinsel]

its kinda dfa-adjacent

the myrmidon one is neat too

[void ocean]

How would dfa work on Dimensius, how high would we fckin go

Stormwind Space Program

[swift tinsel]

wait not myrmidon, swordmaster?

[dry plank]

Assa also teleports nowadays out of nowhere

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/stephen-chow-如來佛掌-gif-23714210

[tender granite]

swordmaster is traditionally the myrm advanced class

[swift tinsel]

ye I'm thinking of Guy from Blazing Blade

[tender granite]

if anything assassination has it the worst out of all the rogue specs for identity/vfx

you have to get real abstract with visual representation when your whole identity is killing without being seen

[plush roost]

GBA FE animations are actually just built diff

The lance spins always get me

especially Prepromote Ephraim

[alpine wraith]

i loved that shit

i did whole lagdou ruins and a leveled all chars to 20

also golden sun 1 and 2 animations

[tender granite]

incredible games

[alpine wraith]

we just dont talk about 3 ok

[swift tinsel]

Golden Sun and Lost Age are my favorite games ever

holy shit

I spent all day every day playing lol

would bring my GBA to school

[keen dome]

Someday they'll fniish the stor of golden sun 2...

or whatever the sequel was called

which just ends

[swift tinsel]

Alex still lurking somewhere...

giant floating eye rock can only do so much against that plot armor

must have used shield djinni to protect

[ebon tiger]

yall in here talking about golden sun. just reinforces my choice to play subtlety

[tender granite]

you're home, buddy

[ripe flame]

those games are insane

[tulip badger]

I remember the gba golden sun comercial, an orchesta fighting angels and a giant wormlike chandelier, ir did have anything to do with the game

But was so epic

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah that was super weird lmao

totally forgot about it until now

I could see it being like a Castlevania Aria of Sorrow thing

but not Golden Sun lol

[night sparrow]

Got a lil bored and did this lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rknfDsCGCvQ first time trying to edit

[inland galleon]

so question to someone trying to master the sub rotation, ive asked before about using SS and it was mentioned to use it at 5 or more targets when they have FW. However, the wowhead guide says to use it only once during the rotten buff and then go back to using shadowstrike as a builder, the only thing changing being the use of black powder over 7 targets

is this outdated info or am i missing something?

[trim acorn]

do I ever wanna use backstab while stealth in pvp?

[swift tinsel]

BP with 5 or more FW targets, still use storm once in dance with the rotten but otherwise strike

[inland galleon]

ty ty

[lilac stag]

storm is poop for the most part

[inland galleon]

how to maintain fw outside of rotten windows

or do i just go back to evis

[vestal escarp]

11% to BP is gonna fix this im sure

[swift tinsel]

It’s kinda whatever outside dance, just focus on keeping rupture up in aoe on mobs that will live long enough

You’ll naturally crit with storm so you might just end up with natty 5 fw so can BP if ruptures are good

[inland galleon]

outside of dance should i be building with ss or backstabbing

[night sparrow]

u cant ss out of dance

[inland galleon]

shuriken storm

[swift tinsel]

unless they mean storm

[night sparrow]

ha kk

[remote eagle]

on 2+ targets i storm outside of dance

[pearl charm]

whats the aoe on nimble flurry? and is it around me or the target?

[swift tinsel]

8 yards around you

[pearl charm]

awesome ty

[inland galleon]

such a terrible feeling only getting 5 cp while in dance, am i doing something wrong?

[swift tinsel]

nah it happens sometimes

[inland galleon]

do i spend at 5 then or keep building?

[swift tinsel]

build

feels bad but it is what it is

[fickle mason]

Sub is dead ⚰️⚰️⚰️

[runic trail]

Yeah but if we say that publically then Gestalt will be sad so, just keep up the ruse.

For his sake.

[swift tinsel]

pft sub gonna crank in raid

[runic trail]

Sub doesn't have to juggle the god damn mark in raid

Until they buff Deathstalker sub

At which point I still play trickster

[swift tinsel]

they won't buff it

at least to a point where you'd play it over trickster

bc that would take some shit

and you'll still never catch me playing ds

[runic trail]

Yeah, I ain't touching it with a 10 foot barge pole

[swift tinsel]

its like if Friction was condensed into a hero tree

it exists to create rotational conflict

not to be fun or playable

and that's just single target. aoe is even worse

[inland galleon]

so what you're saying is play assassination or outlaw for m+

[hazy breach]

Hes talking about deathstalker sub

Not trickster, which is what we play

[swift tinsel]

ye I don't ever really interact with other two specs

trickster sub does it for me like outlaw/sin never could

[hollow spear]

Sin is a prescription level narcotic for me

At least in raid

[swift tinsel]

full bottle of melatonin spec

asmr blackout curtains in a salt water tank

[chrome palm]

sub so fun on ptr

ill never have to play d*athstalker again 🥰

[merry agate]

pumped for next raid
we have dmg amps on bosses

https://tenor.com/view/the-wolf-jules-winnfield-pulp-fiction-thats-one-tasty-burger-gif-25336873

[glacial stag]

Is BP really that close to evisc we could use it on ST in case of buffs? just read the pin i'm like

[hazy breach]

Not for trickster no

Deathstalker yes

[glacial stag]

Crazy tuning

[hazy breach]

Well deathstalker makes no sense anyway

[glacial stag]

Yeah it looks like it is. seems crazy to me that an AOE spell like this could even be in the discussion for st

But ty for clarification boss

[hazy breach]

Well subs aoe keeps being bad and instead of fixing the issue they just buff BP and hope it solves itself

[glacial stag]

Yeah for me the nimble furry thing is an aberration on sub. we always played BP in AOE (and i liked it tbf). so i guess buffing BP doesnt bother me but yeah if its becoming that close to evisc its just nonsense even if its on the hero talent we dont play...

But i guess they liked the caustic splatter idea and just fitted it in sub

[hazy breach]

Well ye most oldschool sub fans dont like it

But it beats playing whatever the fuck the abberation deathstalker is on aoe

I dislike having nimble and then using BP most of their time anyway

Whats the point of even having nimble if we BP at 3 find weaknesses with blades and 5 without blades

[glacial stag]

yeah couldnt agree more with you. its just there so i guess you take it even if they buffed BP to match it. it just doesnt make any sense lol

Like on sin caustic is the way to go u cant just rely on bleeds even with the new build

but NF is just here and there is no better choice so lets go i guess lol

[hazy breach]

I want them to fix it so it actually does what it says on the tooltip and cleaves 65%

Instead of constantly cleaving less because of bugs

[glacial stag]

Yeah i've read that........................

But i mean fixing bugs on rogue specs

Who would think about that

[hazy breach]

Ye why would i want my main 90 second dps cooldown to work on my aoe ability

[bleak night]

greedy sub rogues

[hazy breach]

Very greedy thing to ask for

Its only been bugged for like 15 months so

Theyll get to it any day now

[remote eagle]

delete nimble give funnel

[glacial stag]

Needs about 10 more Kush salty tweets

Feeling like 257 is not enough

sadly

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/it-is-forbidden-lady-sif-thor-jaime-alexander-not-allowed-gif-16156612

They’ll never return that which was stolen from us

[chrome palm]

Deathstalker darkest night on BP but the extra damage is redirected to the marked target

[swift tinsel]

Singular focus with that would be nice

Too bad they forgot to look at the ds tree ever again

[pliant topaz]

no guy is having funwith nimble. he can play outlaw without playing outlaw now. all other opinions dont matter

[remote eagle]

tbh that is why i started playing sub this expansion after having a break since shadowlands and seeing what they did to outlaw lul

[pliant topaz]

yeah well theres a reason i used to play sub and not outlaw

but guess i can go fuck myself who even cares

[swift tinsel]

If they’re dead-set on rogue having a homogenous flurry style aoe which would be ass, put it in the spec tree as shadow damage and make the hero talent increase its damage like for outlaw

Since we’re just a ball of bandaids and are gonna stay that way

[hazy breach]

I mean deathstalker does in theory have a lot of funnel

[swift tinsel]

Replace tornado with shadow flurry

[hazy breach]

It just doesnt in practice because of silly tuning

[swift tinsel]

Ye with mark juggling I can’t imagine trying to funnel effectively with it without wanting to tear my hair out

[remote eagle]

why can’t we just have mark as a spell like mfd was

that would be playable i think

[hazy breach]

That doesnt matter at all for sub

Sub doesnt struggle with the mark the same way assa does

Sub struggles because striking another target when youve reach 1 mark to reset it to 3 is the optimal play

[alpine wraith]

and singular not working with some spells right

[hazy breach]

Since darkest night sucks in aoe, after the BP buffs its probably not even using DN on 5 targets

[alpine wraith]

or did they fix sec tech with it

[hazy breach]

Its only sectech iirc

[azure mauve]

man i wonder what they are going to add in midnight

[hazy breach]

But on high target counts BP probably does more than sectech now anyway

[azure mauve]

hero talents are already not getting a lot of attention

balance wsise

[hazy breach]

Or atleast very similar damage

As deathstalker ofc

[azure mauve]

eleem do you like when pikachu fought raichu in the third pokemon gym

[spice matrix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

@plush roost did you happen to catch my dm

[plush roost]

ye

been cycling 20 mech and cinder

on repeat

XDDDDDDDDDDD

[tribal blade]

oh damn that's rough 😦

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade are we back ?

[short radish]

would sub be considered OP in this current era if we had the old shuriken combo that was banned before

[lilac stag]

Combo + trickster flurry I think so

They would need to up aoe and drop flurry, but then you look at assa and

[alpine wraith]

old shuriken combo with nimble would be quite good yea

might even be worth to use DN in aoe with combo

instead of krangñling in

[lucid jackal]

Yeah it'd probably be fucking insane

[lilac stag]

I forgot where strike was back then. Could you imagine strike flurry combo prio dmg. kekw

[tribal blade]

are we back???

is it happening?

[lilac stag]

rip scarizoid.

[tribal blade]

was he against rogues or something?

[alpine wraith]

he kinda destroyed us

in bfa

and left to dry

[lilac stag]

Yup

[alpine wraith]

but assa was good tho!

[lilac stag]

Then went to fuck up items with curse kiss shit

[alpine wraith]

tbh i didnt even mind deleting combo but the azerite situations

were hateful

like literally we'd rather you not play sub

[lilac stag]

I did a happy dance when I saw that wowhead post

[tribal blade]

OH IS HE THE ONE THAT DID THAT

[alpine wraith]

well he was there not 100% sure you know they are a "team"

[lilac stag]

He was under… Jeff the domination shard chad.

I think it was Jeff.

Everything is Dave in here now. Hahah

[tribal blade]

maybe new devs who actually like rogue come in

[alpine wraith]

i think it is very likely they have new devs

but it would take years of training

with how krangled as f wow is

they seem quite behind already

with how content is coming like this

[tribal blade]

yeah sounds like it

[lilac stag]

I’d love to know how they prioritize the different aspects of the patches, and where class development actually falls on the flow chart

[pliant topaz]

realistically? quite literally bare minimum is my guess. world and story and raid is higher prio

if seniors leave and u get new people theyre slower and wose

[ionic thorn]

Idk I’ve heard that “class devs” do a gajillion other things besides class stuff and get to class stuff when they can

[pliant topaz]

and they have to run things by remaining senior devs

which bottle necks things

and slows everything to a crawl

which means more things need to be cut

thats just how any company works

[ionic thorn]

Can’t know for sure what it looks like though without a peek behind the curtain

Overall I think Scarizard was cool and did more good than bad

[pliant topaz]

for sure, its a big loss to have him gone even though im his hater

[ionic thorn]

He actually made items interesting again

[pliant topaz]

he made a few good ones for sure

[lilac stag]

he had more shit than good. from azerite to items. a few winners, but way more Ls imo

credit for his s4 undertaking

that was likely his labor of love project. if I recall it was just him on that

[alpine wraith]

first s4 was kinda cool

[pliant topaz]

you can bitch about him all u want (and again, im his hater # 1), but he was 100% very very very good for the game. just him being a senior designer alone was a huge thing. the difference between a junior designer and a senior designer is infront of you

deathstalker vs trickster

so now, the quality of things you get is gonna be closer to deathstalker, because things need to get passed by senior designers, and they become the bottleneck so blizz starts shipping and then game dies

[lilac stag]

it’s a title. he destroyed an entire spec, left it for dead and ran it over with a bus named azerite. That’s not senior level. That’s shoulda been removed completely.

[pliant topaz]

It’s not a title

[lilac stag]

Dude needed a filter and someone to keep him in check

[pliant topaz]

I’ve worked at tech and can tell you there’s an insane difference between an actual senior and junior

[lilac stag]

congrats

[pliant topaz]

XD

[lilac stag]

[pliant topaz]

cry ig idk

[lilac stag]

I’ve done dev work as well. You can cite gaming industry is different or whatever.

His iterations and accountability was not that of a senior

but again it’s blizzard

and the game industry in general sucks

[lilac stag]

Imagine a technician living that long.

[alpine wraith]

i mean i find game devs are a rare breed nowadays

like why would you even do it if you can paid way more and less hassle almost anywhere

and also blizz is known for underpaying and also having to make you move to the hellhole that is that super pricey place

there must have been a lot of talented and hopeful people

that now work at other companies

[tribal blade]

my brother worked at blizz for a bit and left because he didn't like the office environment

he worked on stuff like diablo and tony hawk pro skater amongst other things

[pliant topaz]

Yeah it’s def not great, but to me, I’m taking him leaving the company as the beginning of the end (at least publicly)

I know at least 2 friends who work there and are looking to leave as well

[tribal blade]

oh yikes

[pliant topaz]

At least the people staying are union

Otherwise I think they’d die of stress

[tribal blade]

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1WwbpkS28CeZ7_lqqWLdumjZV7_kwJeGEUQ2O4dWenOc/mobilebasic

@leaden prairie confirm

[clever delta]

just looked at raid loot and it look kinda grim for us

two shitty necks we cant use

meh rings

[chrome palm]

Dagger with great stats and bis stat offpiece from 2nd boss

[clever delta]

dagger stats are w/E

[chrome palm]

They are still stats

[clever delta]

smile

[chrome palm]

Prism trinket that not every single person in the raid is rolling for

And the special council boots are also bis stats

It would be cool if they put a cantrip dagger in the raid though

[clever delta]

i hear something about healer prio for that

[chrome palm]

Maybe the damage effect is very minor, could be adjusted later

You’ll still want it

There’s also way more possibly viable trinkets this tier

Will be interesting to see what’s good once they do some tuning

[clever delta]

there not single good neck for us from dungeon

and only good rings are from dawn and priory

another craft neck angle season

[vale pine]

True

[tepid trellis]

huh? scarizard didn't work at blizzard during bfa

he joined blizzard during season 1 of SL

might even had been during season 2

cuz im pretty sure his first things created with wow was season 3 tierset and trinkets/items

[keen dome]

He was there for 4 years or something, so no chance of BfA

[tepid trellis]

yeh he wasent

[keen dome]

I believe he worked on grieftorch too

Which makes him a hero

[tepid trellis]

he made alot of cool items

and alot not so cool ones

[keen dome]

Grieftorch my beloved

All not cool outweighed by the grieftorch

I'm sad Blizz is struggling to retain, but it's not a new issue or an issue with them exclusively. They've outsourced their social media stuff to an agency, which means they've lost their extremely good media team now. Just.. dumb penny pinching shit.

It sucks!

[tepid trellis]

ill always not like him (nothing personal) just for the design of SL season 3 tierset

i shall not forgive that

[keen dome]

I suppose I'm happy I missed that so I can just enjoy the legacy of grieftorch

I hope they make another someday.

What a good trinket. What a good, funny time..

[long sun]

i was reading somewhere with recent buffs we now want to BP at 5 targets as trickster or something? is this true?

[tribal blade]

can't remember the exact specifics, but it was something like that yeah if they all have FW

something about BPing at 3 targets during blades

oh the stuff i'm remembering was before the latest tuning, so i'm probably off

[hazy breach]

5 find weaknesses, not targets, but ye

3 find weaknesses during blades

Wasnt after recent buffs either, been that way for a while

[tribal blade]

still waiting for shadowed finishers to get nuked 🙂

surely 1 day

[dry plank]

No chance man. Anything require more that 2h monthly changes for rogue are not allowed

[long sun]

oh freakaleak alright this is good to know i have not been doing this

so is the wowhead multitarget rotation no longer accurate? https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps#multi-target-rotation

or well perhaps it is but its missing the find weakness conditional?

[runic trail]

This was mentioned in the season 2 mid-expansion retrospective thing

[void ocean]

do we have any idea yet if pvp trink will be a thing again, like beating hc HoC or similar...

[runic trail]

So its just a case of it being an easier rule of thumb thing

[void ocean]

should i mentally prepare

[random comet]

I think it should

It’s so easy to farm anyway

[void ocean]

it requires pvp

[keen dome]

Nah, you can grind it via war crates

Super chill

[random comet]

You can get it like week one and it’s also decent for assass, macro to KB

[void ocean]

i heard about that way but didnt explore

[random comet]

It’s like…12 war crates

They drop every 20 mins

[long sun]

oh freakaleakaleakaleak

[void ocean]

hmm u mean for 11.2, cause for this season it didnt work well afaik

[long sun]

alright ty for the help all

[random comet]

What you mean don’t work well?

[void ocean]

well i guess if u dont have anything else

then its alright

but other trinks would beat it easily

[random comet]

Yeah it’s not like a chase item

But it’s deterministic and easy

[void ocean]

for sub it almost was a chase item

tho mostly cause we didnt have a lot of good 90 sec trinks

[random comet]

It’s mostly that priory trinket was also farmable for assass

And yeah that’s why it was goodish for sub

658 version was about on par with 626 transmitter

Remembering that transmitter was INSANE

[runic trail]

Worth it just to get rid of transmitter

[random comet]

Yeah exactly

[tight sparrow]

Yo i was watching that guy you memed all time he is actually not that bad but too way toxic in lfg lol shouting everyone calling everymistake like wtf

[random comet]

I expect it’ll be on par with like myth hoc so a great early pickup if you don’t have hoc

[runic trail]

Which guy? Lashga?

[tight sparrow]

Ya ahhaha

[carmine portal]

Knowing what I do about advertising and media creation they are almost certainly spending more now than before. Someone at Blizz owed a favour and that meant getting rid of the media team in favour of outsourcing to a friend.

Ive dedicated 10+ years to agencies and freelance in that space, it's an awful place to be. Doesnt matter if people love what you make (people were starting to love the blizzard media team)

[keen dome]

Yeah, I can absolutely believe that

It's very frustrating 'cos the Blizz media team was knocking it out the park

[carmine portal]

It's nepotism of a different kind, it's always helping someone you know who you came up with 30 years ago for these people. I worked at a massive studio that dealt with enormous clients in that manner. It's about personal gain and interest rather than gain for the company or product as a whole

Can only hope this agency completely fucks it honestly, i was so looking forward to this media team and the release of housing videos

[keen dome]

The absolute clear dip in marketing in the last month or two is them already fucking it

Going from people who actively play and love WoW to.. an facelss agency

[carmine portal]

Such a part of the appeal of the original team was that they were clearly from a generation of players that made/watched machinimas

[karmic stream]

I hate how true this is. I really was loving the media team.
So out of curiosity, why is it that if what the team did was good, did they still got the can?

[leaden prairie]

I confirm

[keen dome]

The dwarf guy was a gem

Him leaving 'cos of this is a huuuuuge loss for Blizz

[carmine portal]

Yeah absolutely massive

[carmine portal]

Under the guise of "cost saving", the idea is sound, contractors will do it for less BUT you potentially lose quality.

[tribal blade]

poor guy must play with an outlaw on his raid team or something

some zoomer

[karmic stream]

Ugh.. yep okay.
It honestly feels like good quality service and product is the exception rather than the rule these days.
I'm only 33 but even I can remember a time where if your product or service was shit, you got fired instead of hired.

[keen dome]

You've also gotta include Microsoft's cutting 9,000+ jobs and their attitude to retaining stuff that can be cut.

[carmine portal]

But the reality is most likely this:

Blizzard media team improves, people start loving the quality, the nature, the buzz that it builds within the community.

Someone who owns a media agency OUTSIDE of blizz and knows someome at blizzard says I can do the same for less.

Why would said person at Blizzard NOT help a friend and save money?

[keen dome]

All in the name of salvaging their dogshit 'AI'. It's just unsustainable and the loss of talent in the industry is gonna be immense. again.

[carmine portal]

Again, the idea is absolutely sound if the agency can replicate/continue the success

[keen dome]

A long time ago, Blizz wanted their CS to have 5* hotel level quality. Just the absolute best in the industry.

[carmine portal]

But the reality is someone at blizz is getting a pat on the back for "cost saving" whilst the money is now plumbed into a faceless org instead of a passionate team of employees

[leaden prairie]

No lol I asked him to change it to outlaw haha

[karmic stream]

Slight side tangent:
I see it everywhere. Literally was helping my brother in law move house today and there was like, two different types of furniture:

1. Old stuff that was obviously handed down from older generations. Tables and shelves of actual hard wood that is a brick to move but lasts.
2. Cheap plastic laminate shit that literally broke under its own weight when I set it down too hard and it wobbled.

[leaden prairie]

It was fury warrior before

[tribal blade]

NO SHOT haha

that's hilarious

[leaden prairie]

Xd

[tribal blade]

you're right though, outlaw definitely more adhd than fury

[keen dome]

Enshittification. It's worth looking up and reading about 'cos it's such an annoying issue.

[carmine portal]

My gf and I have made a real effort to buy better clothes. I recently bought some trousers from the 1950s and they're some of the best money ive ever spent

[karmic stream]

Fucking right?

Like why is enshittification legal?

[carmine portal]

MONEY

[keen dome]

Capitalism

[carmine portal]

Less spent on the creation of the product

[keen dome]

Every single year must generate more revenue than the previous regardless of how much that was. So it requires cutting, and cutting, and reducing, and cutting. All so a minority of people can gain the most for no real purpose

it is self-defeating and a core of capitalist idealogy.

[carmine portal]

I am into boots and shoes, its SO fascinating hearing about the purposeful cheapening of footwear so money is plumped back into shoe MAKERS rather than shoe FIXERS

[karmic stream]

Capitalism is fine when done right. It pumped fine from end of WW2 Until Reaganomics in the 1980's. Don't understand why it was fine for 40 years then shit the next 40 years after?
Shrug

[keen dome]

Capitalism has never been done right

It is fundamentally impossible to do right lol

[karmic stream]

I heard about that - where they file down the stitching only to find it's cosmetic only and the whole thing is cheap glue LOL

[carmine portal]

Why make a product that someone only has to buy once? If I make a product that lasts half as long, the person has to buy twice as many- potentially from MY brand if they like it enough

[carmine portal]

Exactly this

[keen dome]

You see it a lot in the tool industry.

A lot of stuff is made faster and cheaper.

[karmic stream]

Makes me sick. Complete false advertising. Make it illegal and send to firing squad.

[carmine portal]

I do a lot of woodworking, all my tools are vintage

[keen dome]

You can't make something like this illegal when the entire system is meant to support it.

It is not bad people. It is a broken system. It is like this by design, not in spite of.

[carmine portal]

Years of working in making adverts teaches you that it's entirely fake the whole way through. Adverts have lots of lawyers involved these days

[karmic stream]

I saw something on YT once:
They took a rusted vintage hammer from the 1920's era and buffered it up. Placed it in a PSI crusher and did the same to a modern hammer.
Guess which one took 3x as much force to crush?

[carmine portal]

The difference between "false advertisement" and "product doesnt exactly meet expectations " is huge

It's the money maker

[karmic stream]

Lawyers should be for black and white crime shit. They shouldn't be allowed anywhere near business crap. It's biased. Not balanced.

[runic trail]

Unfortunately, line must go up. Its stupid.

[keen dome]

Number must go up, ye. It's so frustrating

[carmine portal]

Dyson (the vaccumes) paid my bills for many years and the volume of lawyers they have on their adverts is gargantuan

Probably more lawyers than wow class devs for each ad

[runic trail]

This is why you buy a henry hoover instead, the goat hoover.

[keen dome]

Haha

Henry knows what he's done

[runic trail]

THERE SHALL BE NO SLANDER OF HENRY

He's a good boy and I may have dropped him down the stairs and he's still trucking.

[carmine portal]

Wanna know something FUN about being on set with Dyson? You cant say the word hoover

[karmic stream]

Before 1980's and the American system switch from worker focused manufacturing to the stock market wolf of wall street type shit. A CEO used to only make 21x the lowest worker. Now it exceeds 200-300x.

And I ask why and still haven't found the answer 😐

[carmine portal]

HOOVER is a competitor, it's a brand

Dysons vaccum, they dont hoover

[keen dome]

Capitalism

[carmine portal]

You'd get in trouble for saying the forbidden word

[karmic stream]

Straight up cooked asF haha

[keen dome]

Gonna wander in and in the tone of Lazslow Cravensworth shout "I am looking for a VACCUMEEEE HOOOVER DeeeVICE"

[karmic stream]

Yeah but it's both capitalism. So if we have two versions why pick the shit one lol

[limpid sage]

Ya that period saw the highest top income tax rates

[keen dome]

they're the same system lol. They didn't change.

[karmic stream]

One focused on worker based manufacturing. The other focused on the deepest most fucked up part of pure definition 'consumerism'. I hate it. Go back to letting us have a house with two cars and 3 kids working on a single income that doesn't even need a degree 🙄

[shy orbit]

bad dk and bad boomkin can always be beaten by worse specs

[karmic stream]

Yeah F it back to WoW soz lads

[carmine portal]

Haha what a derailment

Mb bros

Anyways shall we talk about sub buffs?

Oh wait.........

: (

[keen dome]

I've been leveling Arcane and my hot take right now is: Touch of the Magi is cool. Make Rupture do that or something

[tribal blade]

nightblade comeback?

[keen dome]

Sure

You toss it on. After, I dunno, 14s? 16s? it replicates 25% of damage done so you want it to end at a good point.

Make it have a node for more ST or turning it into AoE for M+ / cleave. So you dance and burst a pack and then it explodes some of the damage onto everything. Making our AoE a burst

Also it's purple

[carmine portal]

We've spoken about it before but

Shadowpoison pls

also why tf is our rupture a regular bleed and not some sort of shadow burn type beat

[keen dome]

Yeah..

[rotund pawn]

they should add a talent for that and called it something like dark brew

[carmine portal]

yeah but why is it even a talent?

Would it not make sense for the shadow-spec to by default have a different DOT than the Poison/DoT spec

[rotund pawn]

dw, im sure in 10 years time it will be on more accessible node

[keen dome]

delete FW, brew on the top

[carmine portal]

agreed

[vale pine]

fw is needlessly complex so wouldn't mind

[keen dome]

Brew is a really good, thematic node.

FW sucks.

[carmine portal]

I do "like" the idea of one of the rogue specs exploiting the weakness of a foe to do more dmg but it's just too poorly done

[keen dome]

You could achieve the same via Dark brew and poisons, imo. If mob has poison, exploitable

It would be pretty generic, but you can theme it around Shadow and stuff and it'd just work better.

Or you attach it to SecTec and make them take more damage for x seconds.

[carmine portal]

I mean if anything, FW should be applied after a period of time in combat with an enemy. You seldom know someomes weakness on the first hit

[keen dome]

Ye!

Or via SecTec. So we finally know what the secret technique is

Clones distracting the enemy!

[carmine portal]

real

[keen dome]

Like - while in Dance, all enemies hit by SecTec take x% more finisher damage from that Rogue for y seconds of time due to the Rogue exploiting their weakness revealed through their technique.

[carmine portal]

their SECRET technique

🧠

[keen dome]

Tie it to dance, to our burst identity. Make our big button do something cool. Ditch FW, bake a damage buff thematically into SecTec

[carmine portal]

🕵️

the technique in question

[keen dome]

haha

[carmine portal]

I play with very low settings bcus shit PC, but does Dance give us a cool visual?

[keen dome]

no

[carmine portal]

bruh

[keen dome]

Well, I like it a lot. It just makes us purple.

But it's, like most Sub abilities, very minimalist

[carmine portal]

Subtle some might say

🦗

then u have Hpriest that has amazing visuals and sounds

[keen dome]

Ye

we don't need much, but a few tweaks would be nice.

The trinket from DFC (the darkness one) has a better animation than our Dance / Symbols

But it'd be great for it

[carmine portal]

not sure i've seen it

will look it up

[keen dome]

I have a screenshot of it somewhere

Or don't, I think I deleted it

[carmine portal]

Ah is it the tendrils?

[keen dome]

Maybe? I recall it had a whole visual on the character too

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1280084517419483136/image.png?ex=687cab1b&is=687b599b&hm=3bae37efcb734ce38e8dc74127e3708abcc40a9943bc173a0445379d70b1bccb&

There we go

Tendrils, yep

[carmine portal]

god thats cool

gotta get that for RP

[brisk onyx]

what? is it dance?

[carmine portal]

No it's Remnant of Darkness from Darkflame Cleft

Trinket proc

[brisk onyx]

Maybe I should buy a new computer.

ok

[keen dome]

It's a cool visual

[carmine portal]

The PC im using my gf got given for free, it's a piece of junk but somehow holds up well

It's a fantastic visual yeah

[keen dome]

One positive about WoW is it runs on anything, and works well at the lowest settings. I idle a lot of the time, so I just keep it on the lowest settings. And it works well

[carmine portal]

I have a very good PC, it's just not in the city I live atm, I return to it fondly several times a year

[hazy breach]

Yesnt, if youre not explicitly tracking the amounts of fw its 7 targets on average.

So its not wrong, the fw thing is just more advanced ig

[vale pine]

it is basically a min/max but difficult to keep track of

[carmine portal]

I've made a weak aura that does it, it's called paying someone else to look at my screen exclusively for FW debuffs.

I pay them per debuff spotted (sometimes I think they lie to me)

[vale pine]

haha

[peak trellis]

Hello there. I'm new to Rogue and would like some insights. First question, does any talents are worth using ? I followed guide from wowhead and Icyveins, but the talent choices they made doesn't really click for me. I struggle playing without Thistle Tea and Subterfuge, but doing so I forfeit Supercharger and Deeper Stratagem... Is it a great DPS loss ? Even if I'm more consistent ?

[quaint lodge]

Large DPS loss in those talents, yes

[void ocean]

playing tea as sub is like a pissing in a Grand Canyon, u wont notice the dif outside of ur cds, still wont have energy

and inside ur cds u have more than enough energy

[peak trellis]

I really got the impression (maybe it's just that) that I'm out of energy right after the opener and stuggling to get it back

[hazy breach]

And subterfuge does literally nothing

[tepid trellis]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[hazy breach]

Yeah thats how the spec plays

[tepid trellis]

subterfuge is a world quest talent

or pvp

[vale pine]

not even worldquest

[fallow nimbus]

Without subterfuge you don't even leave stealth when you oneshot mobs with strike

Endless teleports like in legion

[void ocean]

the best advice would be to focus on whats written in those guides and ask for any clarifications about it if necessary

our tc are wonderful peeps, ull get plenty of help

[peak trellis]

Hmmm... So when outside of DS what should I do ? Wait for DS to cooldown ? Throw a backstap and eviscerate/rupture here and there to not overcap energy and combo point ?

[fallow nimbus]

Reverting the energy cost nerfs would be a nice thing

[hazy breach]

Ye you basically do no damage anyway outside cds

[void ocean]

u do normal builder-spender rotation but dont expect anything awesome, u just fish for CDR to get SD back as soon as possible

cause every finisher will reduce cd on SD

[peak trellis]

The Icyveins build got Death Perception 2, so I have one more Symbol of Death than Shadow Danse, when should I use it ?

[real panther]

Note: Evis is still ~20% stronger, so we won't replace it with BP on single target.
Well, honestly I'd feel dirty hiting BP instead of evi on st x'D

[void ocean]

SD - Shadow Dance

SoD - Symbols of Death

[tepid trellis]

you symbols with every dance

and you have 1 extra free use that you can kinda use whenever you feel like it

[placid shuttle]

how's sub rogue in ptr so far?

[void ocean]

its still there

[placid shuttle]

sub should be strong on seasaon start no?

[chrome palm]

Better than live

[peak trellis]

Alright so it's OK to not press a button on GCD and just not overcap ressources while waiting for the next SD/SoD. Does those two always paired up ? What should I do if SD is up but not SoD ? Wait ?

[graceful osprey]

lol what does that mean?

[void ocean]

its a bad joke, dont worry about it

[chrome palm]

The main reason sub was so strong very early this patch was specifically because: 1. Transmitter was incredibly powerful, and 2. The class received size able baseline buffs when they nerfed the tier set

[void ocean]

naw mate, u spend gcd normally, dont hold em

[graceful osprey]

So what you’re saying is more Copium for 11.2?

[placid shuttle]

so rip sub s3?

[tepid trellis]

yes very dead

[chrome palm]

Not at all it’s good

[tepid trellis]

go new class

[void ocean]

its more like "hey we didnt get deleted"

[placid shuttle]

i thought about going sub for opening and switching to assa as season goes on

[tepid trellis]

DoA ong

[placid shuttle]

but ig assa will be stronger

[chrome palm]

Why do you think that

[placid shuttle]

idk that's what people say at the ptr rn

[void ocean]

what ppl

[chrome palm]

I mean they just did tuning and there hasn’t been more raid testing since then

[placid shuttle]

youtube xd

[tepid trellis]

so you watch tierlists

[placid shuttle]

i am taling about m+ not raid

[tepid trellis]

[placid shuttle]

xd

[chrome palm]

Idk I did keys yesterday in a magic comp and I was beating mages, spriest, fdk, but idk how good they were

Probably not much different than now

[peak trellis]

Just tried on dummy, yeah you throw backstap and eviscerate/rupture to not overcap, roughly the time of the gcd

[tepid trellis]

all there is to sub outside of shadow dances

is spamming backstab

and using rupture/evis as spenders

[placid shuttle]

i meant like if they take a lot of parses and take average index, which would be best

[graceful osprey]

Another season of “I’m helping :)”

[tepid trellis]

depending if you need to refresh rupture or not

nothing more, nothing less

[peak trellis]

Ok what about Shadow Blades / Rupture ? Should I delay them if SD/SoD are not ready ?

[tepid trellis]

blades is used every 1min30 together with flag

and 2x dances

and 2x symbols

[peak trellis]

Truth is, I'm coming from FFXIV, so the thought of not pressing anything on cooldown is... Bizarre

[tepid trellis]

it is all in the guides

[chrome palm]

No one is really looking at that kinda thing because the tuning isn’t finalized yet, assa went from 4% buff, 8% buff, to several targeted buffs earlier this week

[peak trellis]

Yeah but if I press SD anytime it's up, I'm migth have to wait for it to be up when SHadow Blades are up

[void ocean]

the only thing u hold as sub is SD when flag is on like ~30 sec cd or less

[placid shuttle]

so what do they base their decisions on

[tepid trellis]

there is a cadence

you dont always press dance on cd

looks like this

[chrome palm]

“They” as in blizzard? They collect their own logs to tune classes

[placid shuttle]

they as youtubers xd

[tepid trellis]

bullshit

cuz it makes em money

[placid shuttle]

yea ig

i've started learning sub but idk if i wanna do all that effort just to forget it and go assa next season

cause sub is harder xd

[swift tinsel]

Tbf everything is harder than assassination

[chrome palm]

I personally don’t like the assa tier, I think the sub tier is really fun

[placid shuttle]

sub is fun but worse with pugs

[chrome palm]

And deathstalker is SUPER annoying in some areas like eco dome

[placid shuttle]

yea deathstalker is so annoying sometimes

[chrome palm]

There is a boss that makes you lose your mark every 90s when he does his intermission

[placid shuttle]

cant switch targets with ease

[swift tinsel]

Deathstalker can just get deleted from our hero tree pool

[chrome palm]

Unless you save darkest night

[placid shuttle]

xav in ToP makes me lose it sometimes

[swift tinsel]

Sub can target swap mark quite easy

Since we can dance it around with strike

[chrome palm]

I noticed in first boss top I lose it all the time from sudden demise

[swift tinsel]

Which is why we can avoid proccing darkest night

[placid shuttle]

what i dont like about sub is the hard dependence on the tank

[void ocean]

what

[chrome palm]

I feel that

[tepid trellis]

thats any burst class

[placid shuttle]

well yea but assa can adapt better

[chrome palm]

Assa definitely has a lot more sustain outside of cds

[tepid trellis]

cuz assa is not really a burst class

[swift tinsel]

^^

[placid shuttle]

assa is not burst yea

the only thing that's annoying on assa is chainpulls and ST

[chrome palm]

But sub also does really good on smaller sized packs compared to assa

[placid shuttle]

true, sub

[void ocean]

why is a chainpul an issue for assa

[placid shuttle]

sub's ST is great

chainpull is not a mad problem

but tanks should know how to do it

[tepid trellis]

he doesent mean chainpull

he means bad tanking

of 1 mob being 5%

[swift tinsel]

Leashing

Ye

[placid shuttle]

yea

[void ocean]

u mean like 1% chainpull 😄

[placid shuttle]

true yea

[chrome palm]

Omg the drill operators in ml

[placid shuttle]

when they go straight to boss and pack is on 1%

i wanna rq

[tepid trellis]

[chrome palm]

Get leashed for 10 years

[placid shuttle]

i guess learning sub would be good tho then i'd know to play all my class specs xd

[keen dome]

Sub is also purple and that's cool

[sinful zephyr]

How ist Echo Dome as sub actually?

[placid shuttle]

cause assa in +18/19 has major ST problems

[swift tinsel]

It’s never bad to know your whole class

[placid shuttle]

with pugs

[swift tinsel]

At least at a topical level

[placid shuttle]

tanks dont like to funnel for me

[void ocean]

whats echo dome

[placid shuttle]

no funnel=no ST

[swift tinsel]

New dungeon

[void ocean]

goddamn

[chrome palm]

Pretty good, can hold dance on first boss for add spawns, second boss I think lines up blades with intermission, last boss has a damage amp mechanic too

[keen dome]

Yeah, new dungo in 11.2. It's got domes. And weird animals.

[sinful zephyr]

Nice

[void ocean]

so a netherstorm

[keen dome]

Absolutely

[swift tinsel]

Skolex round 2

[graceful osprey]

Tempest keep 2

[placid shuttle]

yea but i wanna push hard s3 so i dont wanna fall behind

[void ocean]

Arcatraz

[chrome palm]

There are a lot of really annoying mobs that jump around as well, so I wouldn’t want to play deathstalker there

[keen dome]

Do they jump to attack people

[chrome palm]

They have higher health than some of the other mobs too so they tend to live longer

[keen dome]

Am I gonna get annoyed at that one ranged guy standing in ironforge

[chrome palm]

They jump far away and put a line on the ground

Think inspectors in fg

[swift tinsel]

Can you kidney the jump or is it not telegraphed/castbar’d

[keen dome]

Ooh, that'd be fun

[chrome palm]

They spam that shit

[swift tinsel]

Ew

[chrome palm]

And there’s usually >=2

[swift tinsel]

Thanks John Blizzard

Man

[chrome palm]

I think they cast it though

[swift tinsel]

Imagine if there was an ability

That pulled in mobs

But like

A lot

[keen dome]

Damn, >=2 kidneys. We can only hit one at a time.

[chrome palm]

But also someone else mentioned it but tfd starts a lot faster now I think

[void ocean]

like having hands or smth

[chrome palm]

Like pretty much when you leave combat it seemed like

[swift tinsel]

Or limbs, maybe

[keen dome]

You'd think a kidney stab would be better than a shot.

We've got knives

[swift tinsel]

That sounds real cozy, nice

[keen dome]

Nice

[swift tinsel]

Finally lol

[sinful zephyr]

Oh fast First dance would be huge

[keen dome]

That's a big QoL

[chrome palm]

At least it seemed like to me

And other people said similarly

[swift tinsel]

Sounds like a win to me

Faster and/or more consistent

[keen dome]

Just need the tier set fixed and we're in gravytopia

[chrome palm]

Yeah if they fix tier that would be nice

[keen dome]

By fixed I mean the coup damage buff. Not shadowed finishers. That's never getting fixed.

[swift tinsel]

Yea I’d like if they fix it but they didn’t fix Sectech stuff with s2 so I have no real hope

[chrome palm]

Then you can dance -> coup -> sod -> coup -> stech

And have both buffed coup and stech get supercharged with higher flawless stacks

[swift tinsel]

Yeah that would be huge

[chrome palm]

That’s just feelycraft

But it makes your non blades dances feel a lot better

[swift tinsel]

Checked last night and first coup still getting the buff so we’ll see if they feel like fixing it

Or if they change the tooltip lol

Which would be hilarious

[chrome palm]

That and nimble still bugged

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

I don’t expect that to get fixed tho

[chrome palm]

This tierset with good nimble would be premium

[swift tinsel]

Would be nice

Oh for sure

[chrome palm]

Sub would have insane burst on low targets

[swift tinsel]

Our aoe would go from lame to massive in aoe

[keen dome]

If they change the tooltip I will count that as fixing it. Because it's technically correct.

[chrome palm]

It would be worse if they just do the tooltip imo

I think the intended design is better

[keen dome]

Oh yeah, absolutely

But it'd be funnier

[chrome palm]

Unless you’re an outlaw player

[swift tinsel]

Trickster set is kinda troll for outlaw lol

[chrome palm]

Is it?

[swift tinsel]

Because of sinister strike’s role in their kit

[chrome palm]

Oh since they don’t press it

I imagine fan the hammer or deft isn’t as good then?

[swift tinsel]

Yeah so their benefit is severely diminished compared to us

Iirc some of the outlaw brains have said even just adding pistol shot to ub would go quite a long way

[chrome palm]

It seems like a point of divergence between outlaw and sub gameplay since I know some of them don’t even want UB at all but but would rather just have EB

But I think for sub it’s better to have more control over when you proc eb

[swift tinsel]

I mean it would make sense to do that since their builder pool is so much bigger than ours between strike, ps, ace, deft, killing spree

Adr

[chrome palm]

I guess you could probably just add UB to most of their attacks and it be pretty much the same thing

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, would be like adding UB to storm for us to take out a bit of that friction

But times four for them lol

[chrome palm]

Do you know if people are using toss outside of blades between coups

Or is that blades only

[swift tinsel]

I think either

It’s less of a thing in blades bc shadowcraft

If you farm a lil bit of sht stacks outside blades tho it’s not that bad

[peak trellis]

Thanks for the advices people, just did a dungeon, was way smoother now ;). Last question, is Deathstalker really THAT under Trickster ?

[swift tinsel]

Or you can use vanish premed

[swift tinsel]

Yep, both in terms of tuning and gameplay

[chrome palm]

Deathstalker sub is so bad in aoe you cancel the capstone effect when you get it because it’s a damage loss

[peak trellis]

Alright, so Trickster it is

[swift tinsel]

Forever and always

[north schooner]

or until they fix/overbuff DS

[chrome palm]

I was thinking that they were just deliberately keeping DS worse than trickster but then why buff the tierset and fix the lingering bug?

[swift tinsel]

to say 'hey at least we did X'

[north schooner]

surely DS won't remain like this in midnight

[dry plank]

It could be even worse

[chrome palm]

i would still like to see something done about these

[swift tinsel]

I liked the distract one on paper and the potential would be pretty awesome but competing with no scruples kinda sucks.

plus sectech just does that already

[chrome palm]

"your attacks now deal the same damage if you waste a gcd" vs "your attakcs now deal more damage"

[fleet hearth]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brittle plinth]

Open discord

Check pins

Go back to bed

[void ocean]

What r we waiting

[swift tinsel]

Pins on a Saturday, in this economy?!

[dry plank]

Sounds very stupid yeah )

[void ocean]

Fuu should just make Griftah's All-Purpose pin every Saturday 🤣

[lyric cargo]

Hey guys do we always use 2 dances+sod between SB ? or when there is downtime we use one and hold the other for cds ? Just a question on how bad it is sometimes hold SD for a few secs so when SB are up we have everything ready.

[plush roost]

pattern usually is CDs> 2 dances > cds1 dance

[hollow spear]

If there's a longer (let's say ten seconds) aoe effect going on, could we get two resets from one feint?

[proven plover]

Wait no fucking way they Buffed bp again right? Thats an out of season diablo immortal announcement right

[mellow adder]

can any body gimme ur actiion bar set up im confused as hell

[lyric cargo]

this is how mine looks 😄

[mellow adder]

hi do u by any chanse havbe my slot addon?

[lapis dew]

Wheres our sims at

[runic trail]

In my brain. The sim is a big number. I refuse to divulge further information.

[lapis dew]

In your brain

what about the one not in your brain

Big number too right

[runic trail]

You can't have it

[lapis dew]

Right :D

D:

What kindave shi is this

First our class designer quits

Now were keeping secreta

Stonks so down

[mental dune]

do yall think the baby sub buffs compared to the other 2 specs were because sub was doing better than them or we are just being ignored
i heard sub was doing the best by a marginal amount in raid testing but idk where i saw that

[leaden prairie]

sub was stronger in raid ye and the last 2 bosses are damage amp bosses

its admidrassil all over agian

big sub season

[lucid jackal]

Sub was already better, sin kinda sucks, damage amps good for sub more than they are for sin

[mental dune]

fair enough
still the worst in m+ though i assume?
like sin will still be taken for funnel and outlaw is bis for phys comp

[pliant topaz]

buffs explenation for sub.

sub aoe used to be giga pooopoo. they buffed the tuning knobs that only impact aoe and not single target (bp, nimble) to make its aoe less omega poopoo. As a result, its roughly a ~5% aoe buff, meaning its going from giga poopoo to omega poopoo. hope this explenation helps.

[lyric cargo]

Make nimble flurry hit 15 targets

[mental dune]

hell yeah
granted i havent super felt the "sub being poopoo aoe" thing yet but maybe i havent gotten into the higher keys where that becomes the case
its definitely not built for it the way other specs are

[leaden prairie]

idk casual seems to be doing fine in dawnbreaker rn

more damage than outlaw or even assa

is this whata they call sandbagging

[pliant topaz]

[chrome palm]

For being a burst spec, sub gets routinely outbursted by many other specs in big packs on live

And those specs also have sustain damage

[vale pine]

[lyric cargo]

I saw BM stampede on ptr it hits like a truck

[vestal escarp]

Dw chat sub sandbagging comes from above

[vale pine]

death from above

[ashen ibex]

gamers

deathstalker sub talents for ptr

cause im washed up

grandpa

dk main

plz

[vestal escarp]

Play this casual

Sec

[chrome palm]

Play tornado

[leaden prairie]

@ashen ibex play this

[vestal escarp]

#subtlety message

[leaden prairie]

[vestal escarp]

Trust

This is a 3 michelin star cook

Guaranteed

[leaden prairie]

that lokos mega cooked

[ashen ibex]

no way

[vestal escarp]

Just mega?

[ashen ibex]

this is good

[nova cairn]

It's very good

[ashen ibex]

NO WAY

[nova cairn]

Trust

[vestal escarp]

[hollow spear]

Deathstalker is cooked

[chrome palm]

Cooked to perfection

[hollow spear]

Target swapping to not use DN

[lyric cargo]

I despise DS

[vestal escarp]

How about

[hollow spear]

Cannot get more cooked than that

[vestal escarp]

You use DN

And brag about prio dmg

At the ende of key

(it's a deplete)

[hollow spear]

How about you use deez nuts

[mental dune]

i do not enjoy sub enough to put up with deathstalker
idc if raid has damage amps id rather outlaw

[chrome palm]

Trickster is better for dam amps

[hollow spear]

Damage amps and outlaw?

[vestal escarp]

In raid sub is never using DS lilbro

[hollow spear]

What kind of drugs are you on brother?

[mental dune]

im sayin that if deathstalker becomes bis on sub im swapping off
even if its a downgrade in raid

that hero talent is very unsatisfying/unfun to play

[hollow spear]

I think outlaw on damage amps is an uninstall angle

[nova cairn]

Ye this doesn't go in the same sentence

[north schooner]

PV build

[lyric cargo]

That´s why I am swapping from Assa to sub

[runic trail]

At least we have an alternative that works. Sin on the other hand

[mental dune]

isnt fatebound looking decent in raid? besides the fact that im pretty sure its bugged to all hell
kinda wish it is since fatebound thematically is my ideal

[chrome palm]

Not when raid has cleave

Which most fights do

[lyric cargo]

FB is cooked with adds

[chrome palm]

Also fb tier

[lyric cargo]

only pure ST

[chrome palm]

Is still not really working?

Because the CB cd thing

[mental dune]

damn i knew fatebound sucked aoe but i woulda thought it could handle 2 adds maybe

yeah the fact that that tier still doesnt work this late into ptr is a lil sad

[chrome palm]

2 adds is especially weird for fb because of fate intertwined

[runic trail]

It shoots itself in the foot as soon as an add spawns, their tier set WAS neat in theory but the actual implementation is so stupid.

[chrome palm]

Or 2 target I mean

[runic trail]

Here you have a 90 second cooldown but actually nope

[chrome palm]

Surely they fix

30s cb cd

[runic trail]

I've been saying this since it was discovered. I was hopeful

[lyric cargo]

I mean they might delete FB at this point for assa is trolling and outlaw is aslo not so great

[runic trail]

But I am less hopeful

[mental dune]

damb
really unfortunate
fb sin was the only thing that woulda brought me back to the spec i think

[runic trail]

The hope isn't dead yet but it IS on life support.

[chrome palm]

Idk they never want to touch fatebound for tuning

Much less changes

[lyric cargo]

FB still same as was day one TWW more or less

[chrome palm]

They could also just include cb cdr in the tier

[hollow spear]

Still cannot believe they didn't fix fatebound tier set

[runic trail]

At least the tier set guarantees the capstone, so thats... one pain point taken out.

Its still absolute wank though

[chrome palm]

Also it’s especially weird because

[runic trail]

But being forced to have to juggle the god-damn mark on sin hurts, I like the spec.

I hate the mark.

[mental dune]

yeah thats what i was excited about
being able to open in such a way to guarantee the big gamer coin

[lyric cargo]

Mark is like buggiest and cringiest mechanic rn on rogue

[chrome palm]

this is dark ranger tier

it doesnt require them hitting a proc or doing anything

so in keys as fb

you can lose the cdr between pakcs

and your shit gets desynced

why not just make it reduce the cd like hunter tier

[runic trail]

Wait so... why didn't they just do that, but on fatebound

Like...

It'd still be scuffed due to cold blood but it'd be BETTER

[chrome palm]

you have like 10s or less for lucky coin out of combat

which is pretty common in keys

[lyric cargo]

Hope they do buut 😄 we talking about rogue devs so it will prolly never happen and we end up not picking FB again

[runic trail]

Cold blood down to 30 seconds would be nice, fixes the FB tier set, also helps sub

[chrome palm]

the way theyve handled hero talent tier sets has so far reflected their treatment of the respective hero talents

[mental dune]

n then sub can maybe cb in between cds
for a lil buffed baby sec tec
very cute very nice

[lyric cargo]

Its same a Vile taint for lock they voice it for like 2 years and the change never happens

[lucid jackal]

Well nothing really gets descyned on outlaw...

[chrome palm]

i just found myself on sin where i would open on a pack, kingsbane, and then boom i have DM back

because i previously lost the lucky coin

and without using CDs

you cant reliably get it back

so you have to desync yourself

[neat cedar]

i was surprised when i played rogue in retail that they made coldblood be consumed on any ability and not just finishers compared to classic only used on finishers

[mental dune]

oh yeah that ones a lil weird

[neat cedar]

having the blue glowing hand is a vibe

[mental dune]

hey dont make fun of my cb backstab hes just a little guy

[neat cedar]

iconic rogue look

[idle aurora]

Should I only be doing dmg to underpin during his shield window?

[mental dune]

you can outside of it but only if its completely safe

like focus on getting rid of adds with bomb first n then sure
just make sure to have a dance + sectec for shield (assuming youre on sub)

[idle aurora]

Yeah

I was getting murdered on assassination

[north schooner]

casual's ptr cook isn't working out guys

[vestal escarp]

Pv

Ofc

[ashen ibex]

How many targets is black powder on trickster

did sth change with bp buff?

or w/e

[chrome palm]

5 find weakness or 3 in blades

[mental dune]

dam its really that much better?
didnt expect that

[ashen ibex]

no way you bp on 5 on trickster

woot?

[chrome palm]

Yeah with find weakness

Even 3 in blades

Nimble isn’t buffed by blades

[mental dune]

can that be fixed please 🗿
would really appreciate

[chrome palm]

No it gets buffed instead

[desert bolt]

been out of the loop for a while now. are there any darkbrew builds that are competitive or is it just complete toss still?

[swift tinsel]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

The dslice sim in that sheet runs DB

[wheat path]

Hello, I'm trying to decide if I should pick up my rogue again. Are we looking decent enough to be invited to groups in mythic+?

[void ocean]

sure

tho it widely depends on what u want

[wheat path]

Just to run keys up to +12s without being forced to run my own keys 100% of the time

Last time I played rogue it was hell to get invited

[runic trail]

Thats just... DPS life unfortunately

[wheat path]

Rogue was particularly bad from my experience

[void ocean]

i dont think I run one key of my own this season and I timed several of my 12s as sub even before we got buffed. Im expecting 11.2 only to be better

[wraith sphinx]

everytime you sign up for a key 500 other DPS sign up, you gotta just persevere and keep signing

[wheat path]

Yeah it's not my first rodeo haha. I'm a married man now so my time is even more limited. I'm scared to waste my time on a class that has bad public perception.

[left ledge]

Just play fotm classes then

[void ocean]

bruh the only ppl who like rogue r rogues

[left ledge]

Rogue isn’t exactly a “good” class for m+

It can do ok but if you want quick invites just play whatever the strongest lust class is

[void ocean]

they hate us cause they aint us

[wheat path]

I pretty much only play monk or rogues so I'm used to pain

[void ocean]

i mean just m+ wise assa and outlaw shouldnt have any issues regarding invites

[wheat path]

Praying for sub buffs but I'll take that thank you

[void ocean]

just play bleed build as assa and u will probably top (or be close to) overall... tho u might die of boredom 😄

[wheat path]

Yeah I was bored of assassination during season 1

[swift tinsel]

Doesn’t outlaw crank in that key range too

[north schooner]

the public perception of rogues doesn't reflect reality so people on average will go for fotm classes. I didn't find pugging as rogue horrible this season though except on some off days. You only really get instant invites if you are overqualified for the key

[swift tinsel]

Omfg this picture is amazing 😂😂😂

[small juniper]

@tepid trellis u still gaming or not