touch % reversion too
#subtlety
swift tinsel
warm marlin
wasn't bp 85% of an evis for deathstalker 
swift tinsel
oofta
twilit phoenix
i hope this doesn't lead to just BP spam lmaoooo
swift tinsel
back to 5%
sly shore
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
warm marlin
2 target fw bp in blades 
remote eagle
not the bp whyyy
fallen crescent
BP buff
merry agate
11% wtf what an odd number
fallen crescent
Who called it XD
hollow spear
Let's see, maybe the fixed nimble (I don't believe it)
pliant topaz
wasn't bp 85% of an evis for deathstalker <:MONKA:1226590776008511498>
:)))))))))))))))))
remote eagle
it's a good thing, fuck ds
swift tinsel
DS now BP in st lets gooooooo
pliant topaz
I feel like I can see the future sometimes
warm marlin
ds pressing bp in st meaning it just has better passive cleave than trickster 
north schooner
SB still doesn't do anything with flurry
merry agate
you will play DS and you will like it
keen dome
Just shove another 4% on it and call it a day, we al know where it's heading
slate marlin
Bp buffs HAHAHAH
strange chasm
ur telling me we playing deathstalker and only pushing black powder
north socket
what is this
strange chasm
lets fucking go
swift tinsel
literal shit
hollow spear
I'm getting powdered up boys
merry agate
remote eagle
pliant topaz
okay as funny as it is, i dont think anyones playing DS to bp in st
slate marlin
im terrified of the incoming ping
swift tinsel
in ST or M+
north socket
idk i guess it is time to level a mage
vestal escarp
chat
jaunty heath
yea kind of a poopy buff
vestal escarp
bp buff
slate marlin
can someone test if sb was fixed?
keen dome
I bet their thinking is like: oh, Trickster will aoe with nimble, and now DS can AoE with BP. That's balance.
slate marlin
i mean nimble
hollow spear
If bp isn't your highest damage in m+, you're playing the spec wrong
jaunty heath
30% bp buff plz
pliant topaz
I havent looked at it, but for people on PTR, does the deathstalker 2pc buff the "buff bp" choice node of DS?
patent lichen
Ok genuine question...... WHY GOD, WHYYYYY
edgy zenith
im finna talk shit, is realz still employed?
sly shore
not for rogue, at least
merry agate
we gonna play DS in raid and we gonna parse with some juicy Fatal Intent Crits
mark my words
pliant topaz
im finna talk shit, is realz still employed?
dont
warm marlin
fatal intent? 💀
merry agate
warm marlin
that thing is not real
vestal escarp
most im bummed about is the CT nerf
vestal escarp
edgy zenith
most im bummed about is the CT nerf
that's deserved, tired of Sin pressing CT and topping the charts with no CDs
swift tinsel
dps, right
one lil Fatal blip
merry agate
bleed build in shambles
keen dome
impossible
vestal escarp
that's deserved, tired of Sin pressing CT and topping the charts with no CDs
i think you're very off, all tiers but this sin had a tierset that buffed CT by a great deal
swift tinsel
since your st build takes imp storm lmao
keen dome
You'll push your BP and like it
open vortex
i like buffs and doing more damage
lilac stag
enhance, havoc or fdk?
keen dome
enhance, havoc or fdk? <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
enhance
swift tinsel
like c'mon
edgy zenith
easily havoc
warm marlin
delve trinkets obliterated from orbit?
swift tinsel
if you're gonna buff nimble without fixing the bugs
warm marlin
swift tinsel
you're just admitting you're not gonna fix bugs
keen dome
It opens the door to them fixing bugs and we get a week of comedy damage
vestal escarp
also i think DS is now beyond the BP in ST treshold
north schooner
can someone test if sb was fixed?
with flurry? it's not
edgy zenith
delve trinkets obliterated from orbit?
is this a stat stick grieftorch?
lilac stag
you're just admitting you're not gonna fix bugs
This should not surprise you at this point.
clever delta
is going the nimble buff change the logic for target count?
slate marlin
with flurry? it's not
😦 they wont fix it soon then
clever delta
@hazy breach
clever delta
i feel like they trying to balance the bugs
warm marlin
also i think DS is now beyond the BP in ST treshold
i raise you even more cursed: worse normally, better during symbols because of the deathstalker tier set
glacial hinge
powder again xD
runic trail
i feel like they trying to balance the bugs
vestal escarp
i raise you even more cursed: worse normally, better during symbols because of t...
it's a package
keen dome
so we're safe for now
"They still don't want to play DS. Time to buff BP by 6%"
merry agate
yeah DS is a lost cause and deep down they know it
i hope
vestal escarp
DS tier set and buff really make Bp crits stronger than evis
pliant topaz
theyre complaining about having to BP in single target now.
ashen dock
gaming
slate marlin
not complaining, just hilarious thats its a bp buff
pliant topaz
I looked at the sims, and doesnt seem like you would still blackpowder in single target, but its actually really really close now in sims.
keen dome
So they need to buff it more
pliant topaz
might be worth for Dm stack idk
runic trail
So they need to buff it *more*
I'm taking away your purple access.
rotund pawn
swift tinsel
might be worth for Dm stack idk
does anything change with nimble logic?
drifting fable
you will spam it in ST and you will enjoy it
swift tinsel
or do the bp and nimble buffs offset and not change anything
merry agate
cant get over the fact that its 11
why 11 bro
runic trail
cant get over the fact that its 11
why 11 bro <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
12 would be too much, 10 wouldn't be enough
jade urchin
black powder buff 
drifting fable
cant get over the fact that its 11
why 11 bro <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
spin the wheel
lilac stag
storm and BP in ST. 
pliant topaz
does anything change with nimble logic?
probably not. BP is mostly FW dependant not target count dependant
like bp > nimble on pretty low target counts if you have FW up
slate marlin
cant get over the fact that its 11
why 11 bro <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
i said the same as with the 8% assa buff, 10% looks lazy, 11% looks more calculated
keen dome
Wonder if they fixed the tier set
lucid jackal
i said the same as with the 8% assa buff, 10% looks lazy, 11% looks more calcula...
What the fuck are you talking about
drifting fable
lucid jackal
How do you live your life this cynical about everything
drifting fable
thats bait
lucid jackal
I'm so for real
swift tinsel
probably not. BP is mostly FW dependant not target count dependant
yeah, I had a feeling the BP/FW part wasn't too impactful but didn't know if the 5% nimble buff moved the needle on FW thresholds
drifting fable
thats the funniest shit of all time
swift tinsel
so that makes sense
slate marlin
What the fuck are you talking about
why do u even think i am being serious🤣🤣 its obv a joke
pliant topaz
yeah, I had a feeling the BP/FW part wasn't too impactful but didn't know if the...
maybe it does idk, would need to actually play with the sims
drifting fable
W rage bait
lilac stag
why do u even think i am being serious🤣🤣 its obv a joke
Not obvious
carmine portal
Is it ever worth to take Elusiveness?
slate marlin
nvm its discord and the internet, my bad
pliant topaz
but initial guess, prob not
lucid jackal
w rage bait
pallid inlet
The only people left playing rogue are crazy so its what you get when you go into a rogue discord
keen dome
can we crash out now or
they didn't buff it enough, it's not funny enough yet
warm marlin
the real celebration should be dodging a tier set nerf
alpine wraith
it is a good thing at least for m+ but still
oh tier set will get double tapped i think
slate marlin
Not obvious
yep, i tend to forget people dont know my tone when on the internet, my bad
alpine wraith
but they will buff overall again
lilac stag
nvm its discord and the internet, my bad
It’s plain text with zero emotion attached to it. put a dam emoji after it at least
quaint nimbus
So im getting the impression that we are sad that there wasnt a lot of changes
slate marlin
Ok?
vestal escarp
keen dome
we did
left ledge
BUFF IT AGAIN
alpine wraith
hmm not sad buffs are good things
keen dome
We're so close to comedy
left ledge
I KNEW THEY WERE READING THE DISC
alpine wraith
just kinda not surprised
vestal escarp
We're so close to comedy
?? we're into it fully
alpine wraith
pliant topaz
I mean its not that deep though. sub aoe = ass
alpine wraith
we have these for a reason
pliant topaz
okay, we buff their aoe tools
left ledge
11% has to be a hidden message
pliant topaz
keen dome
no, full comedy is when BP does more than Evis in ST. That's full comedy imo.
vestal escarp
a whole season spent asking for bp buffs
pliant topaz
no, full comedy is when BP does more than Evis in ST. That's full comedy imo.
it doesnt 'yet'
alpine wraith
i would not mind if evis got buffed and shadowstrike and builders nerfed
vestal escarp
now that (at least this) community moved on
runic trail
it doesnt 'yet'
The yet scares me
alpine wraith
i dont see why my shadowstrike has to crit for 2 million
edgy zenith
i just wanna BP St man
carmine portal
isn't it like a 30-40k dmg increase?
pliant topaz
i mean 1) youre not playing deathstalker unless giga big tuning / trickster nerfs
that shits like 10% behind
vestal escarp
it almost did in nerubar cmon
carmine portal
yippie
lilac stag
BUFF IT AGAIN
pliant topaz
- okay, you might bp in single target as deathstalker for Dm stacks
but not perma bp in st
edgy zenith
if I have to have evis bound, I don't want it
alpine wraith
2) okay, you might bp in single target as deathstalker for Dm stacks
you would need to enable the DS talent too so also a storm
keen dome
Hopefully they fix the missapplied 50% on the tier set too, which would be rad.
open vortex
fdk/bm/mm/spriest/boomy all nerfed
alpine wraith
we can send people that want danse to stack to 10 in TFD to DS
vestal escarp
feeds into the Dm chase
lilac stag
enhance or havoc then.
void hound
my schizo brain tells me the reason they went with buffing nimble is because they cant fix the bugs associated with it
swift tinsel
warlocks got criminal buffs jesus
alpine wraith
i mean like armin said they saw a problem
pliant topaz
my schizo brain tells me the reason they went with buffing nimble is because the...
or, or, or hear me out. subs aoe = litearl poopoo. so thye buff the thing that does aoe damage but not single target
alpine wraith
and had an easy solution
keen dome
enhance or havoc then. <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
Enhance!!!
Because then you can be the skyfury Sub buddy
lilac stag
True
jaunty heath
more aoe plz
keen dome
Also, you can turn into a wolf and shout DOG MODE.
lilac stag
maybe prophet will resilient carry me
merry agate
11% has to be a hidden message
K is the 11th letter in the alphabet
class reworK
i got em
keen dome
haha
keen dome
It's cool to get more nimble damage
void hound
or, or, or hear me out. subs aoe = litearl poopoo. so thye buff the thing that d...
the voices in my head say otherwise so
lilac stag
11% has to be a hidden message
In numerology, the number 11 is considered a "master number". It is associated with heightened intuition, spiritual insight, and enlightenment. It can symbolize new beginnings, spiritual awakening, and divine guidance. It is often seen as a bridge between the conscious and unconscious realms.
keen dome
Someday they'll fix the bugs and not revert it and we'll have a funny afternoon.
swift tinsel
I mean 65% nimble plus adding blades and removing SF reduction
would be a nice fantasy world to live in
jagged rover
wtb more sub buffs so I don't have to worry about where my stupid deathstalker mark is during raid
alpine wraith
i actually wonder if they fixed blades with nimble
lilac stag
We'd proabbly only get it for an afternoon. But it could happen!
It would go live on NA for 3 hours
swift tinsel
i actually wonder if they fixed blades with nimble
nope
keen dome
It would go live on NA for 3 hours
damn, true
keen dome
Hero
vestal escarp
wtb more sub buffs so I don't have to worry about where my stupid deathstalker m...
it's on the boss brother, dont worry
swift tinsel
someone said they checked ptr and nimble and blades still don't do the thing
left ledge
@balance_team let’s pump up those DS numbers LETS GO
jagged rover
it's on the boss brother, dont worry
I mean, true, but I want to target swap. Not hope the boss is brought close enough to the adds
latent fog
how much better is sub's funnel damage compared to sin (if it is better in the first place)?
left ledge
One more BP buff and I think sub is fixed
left ledge
how much better is sub's funnel damage compared to sin (if it is better in the f...
It will shit on sin if we get like 5 more BP buffs
Let’s get 5 more
lilac stag
One more BP buff and I think sub is fixed
Has to be 7%
latent fog
well - otuside of tuning kinda
pliant topaz
One more BP buff and I think sub is fixed
nah it wont be.
keen dome
One more BP buff and I think sub is fixed
Nah, no chance. We don't have the Ky'veza animations yet. Priorities, man
left ledge
nah it wont be.
Old news we’re already on 5 now
pliant topaz
bps gonna be at 86% of evis after the buff
latent fog
or is sin just been gapping sub on funnel for the entire xpac?
left ledge
5 more buffs
pliant topaz
we need more than 14% to get it above evis
keen dome
It could happen before the end of TWW
left ledge
We need bp to do like 2 evis worth of damage
jagged rover
sins funnel gets better with the ds tier set as well
keen dome
Agreed. Replace it with, uh
left ledge
BP
keen dome
Shadowstrike is taken. Shadow.. stab
lilac stag
remove Sectech too
left ledge
Replace it with more BP buffs
warm depot
luh mao
keen dome
Shadowstrike into Shadowstab.
jagged rover
when does backstab get replaced by gloomblade permanently?
left ledge
Never
tulip gorge
are we playing deathstalker yet? 
lilac stag
soonTM
vestal escarp
sure, next reclear
alpine wraith
you can uninstall details and never look at logs
left ledge
are we playing deathstalker yet? <:LOLW:1118257747696304138>
Soon
alpine wraith
then you can play DS happily
left ledge
I will make sure of it
pliant topaz
are we playing deathstalker yet? <:LOLW:1118257747696304138>
no
lilac stag
Not sure what’s funnier. Sub and BP or outlaw and KS
left ledge
I’m going to spend every waking hour spam submitting ptr reports to buff DS
vestal escarp
then you can play DS happily
not accounting for the shit feeling while playing, you would still need to unistall your brain
swift tinsel
will take an unholy act to make DS > trickster
left ledge
will take an unholy act to make DS > trickster
Not true
alpine wraith
idk some people are special
left ledge
Few more BP buffs is all it takes
keen dome
They should let trickster's flurry do shadow damage.
vestal escarp
man a whol tier
keen dome
esp if they fix the 4pc
that's the thing I'm most curious about. if they have then I think we're gravy
vestal escarp
one sane whole tier
swift tinsel
so the 2nd coup benefits from the damage buff and flawless stacks from the first
vestal escarp
asking for BP buffs
lilac stag
minus the whole trickster being stronger
Something for sub will get nerfed by week 2. Wanna bet it’s trickster?
keen dome
Something for sub will get nerfed by week 2. Wanna bet it’s trickster?
Evis damage
swift tinsel
that's the thing I'm most curious about. if they have then I think we're gravy
yeah same, I can stomach using storm/toss bc that's whatever but having the 4pc function as stated would be quite nice
brittle plinth
I have a sneaking suspicion blizz wants us to play DS
vale pine
Class tuning update - Image
There is potential for rotational changes given the now lower difference between Evis and BP in absolute damage, but buffs are good.
Rough estimate would be ~2-3% AoE buff.
Note: Evis is still ~20% stronger, so we won't replace it with BP on single target.
brittle plinth
It's gonna be all buffs
remote eagle
I'm prepping boys
alpine wraith
truee
tepid trellis
# [Class tuning update](<https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-11-2-ptr-build-62049...
if you want a better picture
brittle plinth
Is this real
narrow shadow
SUB IS SAVED
brittle plinth
Why did assassination get so buffed
hollow spear
Frost DK got... Obliterated
alpine wraith
they are still a bit behind
narrow shadow
Because assa always needs to be the top rogue spec
alpine wraith
because tier set is quite bad
vestal escarp
cause it was dog
vale pine
if you want a better picture
added it
alpine wraith
so even after this they will get buffed
alpine wraith
not for long
swift tinsel
lilac stag
because tier set is quite bad
Inc 
tier buff week 2
keen dome
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1365042674842992660/9l...
Replace it with Evis
swift tinsel
Replace it with Evis
lmao I might
alpine wraith
Inc <:sin:433007826840059916> tier buff week 2
you forgot buff week 1
lilac stag
Frost DK got... Obliterated <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
Proper use of obliterate. 
hollow spear
Are people using it improperly 🤔
left ledge
Real talk, I wonder why they keep buffing BP
lilac stag
Fdk spell
left ledge
Are they looking at logs and not seeing it?
Do they understand why we seldom press BP?
keen dome
I think Armin summed it up pretty well
vestal escarp
armin said it a bunch of lines above
left ledge
Oh did he
keen dome
Sub AoE bad so buff Sub AoE to be less bad
leaden plover
I guess we are using BP in single target now.
vestal escarp
bandaid to bad perfomance in aoe/keys
leaden plover
🥹
left ledge
Oh I see it here #subtlety message
swift tinsel
BP is their aoe tuning knob
hollow spear
It's the bandaidest of bandaids
swift tinsel
same with nimble now
lilac stag
Glorious day of all the glory.
keen dome
I guess we are using BP in single target now.
not yet
lilac stag
we are saved
left ledge
But what happens when subs aoe stays bad
keen dome
But the day of glorious comedy is on the horizon
keen dome
But what happens when subs aoe stays bad
buff BP again
thick siren
any bugfixes?
vestal escarp
hard to imagine they're failing to realize that no the real issue but w/e
keen dome
Like what is their plan
Buff Evis, duh.
lilac stag
Like what is their plan
Buff BP again
leaden plover
Always fancied using bp instead of evis yk
left ledge
pliant topaz
Like what is their plan
they got like another 20% worth of bp buff before that happens.
hollow spear
Any other solution would take more than thirty seconds to think about
pliant topaz
but aqt that point maybe they spend some time
and fix the thing
instead of doing the easy buff bandaid
lilac stag
or just hope everyone switches to Assa
keen dome
or just hope everyone switches to Assa
pliant topaz
but also, this is funny af that in s3 df I told realz u could buff bp by 50% and it would still be ass
hollow spear
Half of the people here secretly play sin anyways
left ledge
and fix the thing
Haven’t we been hoping for fixes to be made since pre tww launch
pliant topaz
here we are, 3 seasons later, bp has beenn buffed by almost 90% still ass
crazy
im telling u
i can see the future
hollow spear
Or they're like Armin
lilac stag
There's only twelve of us
Looking for BFA number of 2 or less
left ledge
I think it’s safe to say we probably won’t see the spec fixed until another rework
keen dome
Looking for BFA number of 2 or less
Nah, there were def at least 3 'cos I played it the whole expansion
vestal escarp
which wont come
lilac stag
I think it’s safe to say we probably won’t see the spec fixed until another rewo...
And it still won’t get fixed then
left ledge
At which point we will have new bugs that won’t get fixed
hollow spear
"He won't come"
pliant topaz
I think it’s safe to say we probably won’t see the spec fixed until another rewo...
probably
no reason to spend more time on it for now
keen dome
The year is 2027. Sub has had four reworks. Shadowed finishers continues to not interact with anything, even itself.
lilac stag
enhance it is.
lilac stag
Can’t double down on realz specs
pliant topaz
then u spend 25 minutes shuffling things around again
left ledge
I’m glad some classes are enjoying hero talents
hollow spear
🏄 🏄♀️ 👍
left ledge
But it’s been a huge problem for rogue
lilac stag
ST rotation now
left ledge
Probably the worst thing to happen to us in a while
hollow spear
I mean idgaf about these changes tbh, they won't change anything
brittle plinth
If nimble said all DMG and not normal
keen dome
https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-275548...
Best rotation guide in existance
brittle plinth
That wouldn't be too bad
hollow spear
Maybe our dm stacking is even more cursed
jagged rover
I prefer sub and especially in raid, but sin just has damage every pack in M+. Otherwise I'd just play sub everywhere
left ledge
I mean idgaf about these changes tbh, they won't change anything
Are they changes if they don’t change anything
pliant topaz
I’m glad some classes are enjoying hero talents
youre noot enjoying the purple tiny x that took atleast 40 seconds to make? :c
brittle plinth
Half of the people here secretly play sin anyways
Not me
alpine wraith
nothing because we play trickster
lilac stag
youre noot enjoying the purple tiny x that took atleast 40 seconds to make? :c
How about our hidden coup animation?
keen dome
How about our hidden coup animation?
At least we have that working now
alpine wraith
unlikely actually
lilac stag
if they have fw
Welcome to storm first
left ledge
youre noot enjoying the purple tiny x that took atleast 40 seconds to make? :c
I love playing a spec that was once so intuitive and smooth but now needs me to randomly insert irrelevant buttons to escape the game attempting to cuck my damage for seemingly no reason
hollow spear
We already bp at three targets if we have blade
vestal escarp
btw 65% flurry is pretty nuts
pliant topaz
Do we press bp?
idk its too time consuming to implement the way i think itll go in the apl. and i cba. but the gist im thinking is this.
instead of bs you do 1 storm before dance. if it crits u get the buff, then its prob worth to bp once in damnce for dm stack. if not, then u dont bp and take the loss. its gonna be weird cuz itll be dependant on crit chances and margins. i can prob do a napkin math lter
left ledge
btw 65% flurry is pretty nuts
You know what would REALLY be pretty nuts
rotund pawn
so, i dont know if i am smoking crack or something, but wouldnt these new changes make you spam black powder in every possible situation aside pure single target patchwerk?
left ledge
Another 5 buffs to BP
left ledge
so, i dont know if i am smoking crack or something, but wouldnt these new change...
Not as trickster no
lilac stag
Another 5 buffs to BP
We can only dream
left ledge
DS already wanted to bp at low target counts
vestal escarp
in aoe?
pliant topaz
How about our hidden coup animation?
oooh i love that one. specially when they gave us hte dash, we hated it and bitched about it, then it went live, and it was awful, then they removed it (the only existing fucking animation of the tree), and they hit us with 
see? we listening, we so good,youre welcome for the great changes
hollow spear
idk its too time consuming to implement the way i think itll go in the apl. and ...
Makes sense ig
hollow spear
I hate to press backstab in dance, maybe that'll feel better
lilac stag
oooh i love that one. specially when they gave us hte dash, we hated it and bitc...
When you look at all the shit from the TWW and list it all out, it’s so depressing.
vestal escarp
It does have a pretty good animation *now*
bruh it's rampage
pliant topaz
When you look at all the shit from the TWW and list it all out, it’s so depressi...
why u think i quit?
keen dome
It's cooler than rampage
rotund pawn
Not as trickster no
lets say 2 targets, both have FW, isnt it more logical to spam BP now? of course, just talk atm, sims will come later
pliant topaz
i saw this coming a mile away and pced out
alpine wraith
understandable likely many silent ones were lost
even in df when they didnt know wtf was happening
lilac stag
i saw this coming a mile away and pced out
I almost made it. Still may depending on dog training needs.
left ledge
lets say 2 targets, both have FW, isnt it more logical to spam BP now? of course...
No, you’d still evis and keeping FW on two targets is improbable
lilac stag
I’m waiting to find out BP didn’t actually care about FW.
sick jackal
do you guys think we will use BP on ST dance windows for macabre stacks?
left ledge
BP def cares about FW
left ledge
do you guys think we will use BP on ST dance windows for macabre stacks?
DM will probably never impact the rotation more than the stab premed
sick jackal
understandable
left ledge
You want to sectec first for your flawless form anyways and then you’d need to calculate whether the DM stack was worth not casting an evis instead post sectec
UNLESS WE BUFF BP MORE LETS GO
THEN WE JUST REPLACE EVIS
“Don’t hit the adds, focus boss”
SRY BRO GOTTA BP
rotund pawn
No, you’d still evis and keeping FW on two targets is improbable
idk, if it was 2 target fight, would probably be better to go with the rotten to get 2 FW and spam black powder since nimble does not benefit buffs and most importantly extra 30% shadow dmg
jagged rover
I'm 99% sure I don't use BP enough when I play sub in M+. I need to hit the button more anyway
hollow spear
idk, if it was 2 target fight, would probably be better to go with the rotten to...
Probably not
So far it's been 5+ fw targets and 3+ fw targets during blades
And they also buffed flurry while buffing bp, so it'll most likely not move too much
Let's see what the robot says
chrome palm
Do we know if they fixed anything this go around
rotund pawn
Let's see what the robot says
amen
hollow spear
Apparently nimble bugs are still there
pliant topaz
I’m waiting to find out BP didn’t actually care about FW. <:HOLY:125089344018357...
it does.
pliant topaz
DM will probably never impact the rotation more than the stab premed
how about a bp?
hollow spear
I care about fw
merry agate
We all do
modest river
i want my shadowdust back 😦
jagged rover
I want tomb of sargeras DFA sub rotation back
merry agate
Fw is peak immersion
class fantasy
absolute cinema 🙏
stuck linden
I want tomb of sargeras DFA sub rotation back
As a die hard outlaw player, Legion sub was the best rogue ever was.
Minus when DFA glitched on maiden and you flew across the room lol
jagged rover
I played Outlaw during Antorus though, because a 5 roll with the pantheon trinkets was hilarious
north schooner
FW has been sub's centrepiece since cata 👍 🏄♀️ 🏄♂️
jagged rover
dfa is the only reason I'm considering legion classic at all
merry agate
lost to time
like tears in the rain 😭
spice matrix
DFA
light finch
Soooooo, big sub rework on the horizon ? 
steel zinc
Lookin good this tier though <:PES_EvilHandRub:805106688503054376>
assa look very strong too
probably head to head now
lucid jackal
Think sub is just better because more of its damage is in a CD
and this is a damage amp tier
steel zinc
Think sub is just better because more of its damage is in a CD
tbf most damage amps are close or in execute
warm marlin
🤐 trickster tier must survive ptr
slate marlin
i too think this will be a sub raid angle
jagged rover
my main worry about assassination is target swap fights
teal island
Think sub is just better because more of its damage is in a CD
Assa feels like playing classic when on ST tho
lucid jackal
Target swaps are literally suicide for sin is also the issue
jagged rover
so goign to be playing a lot more sub just because of that (and its more fun). Assassination is super easy to jump back into when needed
lucid jackal
Especially the types of target swaps this tier is asking u to do
Like the boss with the pillars
Like u can pretend sin is gonna be good on that fight, or equal, but like, it's just gonna be pure cancer juggling DM on that fight properly
jagged rover
pillar boss and 2nd to last boss are my main worries
lucid jackal
Same with the DH bosses
jagged rover
figure DH bosses you'd just single target the one that moves the least and cleave, but maybe its terrible timing wise to swap marks
fickle mason
Like u can pretend sin is gonna be good on that fight, or equal, but like, it's ...
Sin just cleave off boss and make the evokers and locks do it
lucid jackal
What do u mean cleave off boss
fickle mason
Like on one armed bandit
lucid jackal
Cleave off the 3 pillars on different ends of the fight?
Cleave off the add that spawns and is prio kill whenever it spawns?
Just play sub, move a dance to there
steel zinc
Same with the DH bosses
dh boss as ds assa or any ds is like silken court on steroids
lucid jackal
Its way worse
steel zinc
ya
steel zinc
on mythic it was so cooked
lucid jackal
If u play perfect DSM im sure it's "fine" but like bro
steel zinc
the overlaps
steel zinc
I think it must be changed
legit the others bosses are easier imo
I see it in the current state being skipped in rwf
except numbers are insanely tuned
lilac stag
waiting for cooked assa build with double vanish to target swap.
steel zinc
you will play it
lucid jackal
Or just play sub 
steel zinc
even if it is like 3% dps loss
lucid jackal
cuz sub is better
jaunty heath
P sure sin is fine in raid
jaunty heath
I love sub though so any opportunity to play it I will
steel zinc
like you go into the patch with a 12% damage buff
sub goes with it like 3%
imagine rn sin was 12% buff
lilac stag
I’m still expecting a late assa tier buff.
light finch
even as sub this fight is cancer with the whole charging shtick
steel zinc
yeah later sub goes ahead but week 1-3 assa is busted
lucid jackal
Sin is back to a 2 min spec, and these buffs aren't even that good
Itll be a sub tier sheeple
lilac stag
devoker
left ledge
We don’t want to press eviscerate
steel zinc
needs more bp buffs
Probably gonna use now 100% bp 5+ targets
no matter if we have fw
and also holding coup is now even before tier even more worth it
left ledge
All our nimble flurry problems would be solved if they just buffed bp a few more times
dry plank
Ye 20% more buff to bp please ))
steel zinc
All our nimble flurry problems would be solved if they just buffed bp a few more...
I hope they just fix the bugs
like legit nimble would be way better if it actually worked with all talents
imagine not working with 2 damage talents
blades and shadow finishers
or is that fixed?
left ledge
Glorified devo aura ahh
swift tinsel
no 4pc fix yet
swift tinsel
what is broken?
it buffs the first coup not second
dry plank
Guy there is outlaw huge omega pepega buff, sub is fine, assa another 5% aura buff and set buff will solve issue for majority of people who still play this class
lucid jackal
does this impact anything at all
dry plank
The more changes they add more bugs appear it is class design we are fine. Aura buffs and bp buffs always help )
dry plank
We should pray every day that it took only 7 month ls to fix coup charge xD
shut jay
BP buff, damn we're so back
soft summit
Guy there is outlaw huge omega pepega buff, sub is fine, assa another 5% aura bu...
The problem is not the numbers. It’s the playability and enjoyability of the class. Based off these patch notes… nothing changes. rogue is still in the trash.
lilac stag
Why are we still getting bp buffs man
We want more BP buffs.
formal helm
Why are we still getting bp buffs man
Gonna replace evis in st at this rate
lilac stag
That’s the goal
formal helm
acoustic lodge
Can’t tell if the frost nerfs are bug
lucid jackal
The problem is not the numbers. It’s the playability and enjoyability of the cla...
Sub is so fun rn wdym
frail kindle
The sub tuning classic, plus 5% bp damage
soft summit
Sub is so fun rn wdym
If that were true it would not be the 2nd lowest played class and spec in the game. Only above evokers
left ledge
It’s low play rate has nothing to do with how fun it is unfortunately
soft summit
It’s low play rate has nothing to do with how fun it is unfortunately
It 100% does.
left ledge
Sub has had a stigma of being “hard” to play and isn’t really meta for very long
It really doesn’t
frail kindle
Sub play style rn is much better than it’s been in the past
lilac stag
fun being subjective.
left ledge
Even when sub was in its most fun states the play rate was abysmal
Rogue has historically been the least played class
soft summit
Sub play style rn is much better than it’s been in the past
What’s changed in 6 months?
lilac stag
there’s def some rough edges to sub, but people enjoy the burst / nothing cycle for the most part.
frail kindle
Nothing? I think the shadow dust change was before that
soft summit
Still bipolar with fun shadow dance windows then super low out of shadow dance windows?
frail kindle
Yep
soft summit
Yeah, that ain’t fun
frail kindle
This is better than having like 60% dance uptime
And having a flat line damage profile
We actually have burst now which is cool
lilac stag
that’s what sub has always been about unless there was an aberration of a tier set
frail kindle
Issues with sub are with the hero talents and some talent tuning
lilac stag
assa gives you more to do outside of CDs. Hell assa lets you do just about everything. Just move talents around.
teal island
backstabing with 0 energy for most of the fight isn't fun either in my opinion
lucid jackal
If that were true it would not be the 2nd lowest played class and spec in the ga...
They aren't correlary at all
frail kindle
Why do you care about doing damage outside of cds
lucid jackal
If you believe this to be true, rogue has been broken for over 12 years
Rogue hasn't been a popular class in over a decade
frail kindle
Every spec in the game hits like a wet noodle outside of cds I really could care less what I do outside of cds lmao
lucid jackal
Which I mean sure u can think that, but then why tf r u here
lilac stag
sub isn’t good in m+ because of its krangled AoE, not because of its dmg profile.
lucid jackal
And also, who tf cares if it's popular or unpopular. The question is if it's fun or not
swift tinsel
the less popular the better so I get all the daggers from raid
lilac stag
and fun is subjective.
swift tinsel
hoover them bitches up
lilac stag
Get your free guild invite since recruiting rogues sucks
alpine wraith
last times i had to find guild it was a bit of a struggle tho
most of them already have 1 and no reason to have 2
lilac stag
Can’t tell if the frost nerfs are bug
They’re not. They already had an aura buff and they basically made breath burstier.
alpine wraith
unless you also play other classes
sly shore
me being like "if we don't get anything ptr of midnight it's over" and still playing rogue anyway
swift tinsel
breath duration nerf was absolutly warranted
sly shore
alpine wraith
well i mean we have been on a downward spiral since wod but rogue still trucks along
at least we are generally very durable
swift tinsel
so the consolation dmg buff will be a net gain for a lot of folks I bet
alpine wraith
yea skill issue buff
lilac stag
so the consolation dmg buff will be a net gain for a lot of folks I bet
If I recall they had a 10 aura buff. I’m curious if 2h is still viable
swift tinsel
If I recall they had a 10 aura buff. I’m curious if 2h is still viable
last I was poking around acherus I heard murmurs 2h was going to be a thing
soft summit
And also, who tf cares if it's popular or unpopular. The question is if it's fun...
Popularity can be a good measure of whether the class is A. Good and 2. Fun to play.
For example ret paladins. Good dps but also fun. Looks at demographics.. oh it’s one of the most popular class specs in the game too.
swift tinsel
Popularity can be a good measure of whether the class is A. Good and 2. Fun to p...
also only dps spec for paladins to play
caveat
hazy breach
Idk what people who say rogue feels horrible to play even want
soft summit
You know what’s not fun? Evokers. checks demographics oh it’s actually the only class in the game more unpopular than rogues
lucid jackal
They don't want anything, they just want to complain
swift tinsel
imo only feels horrible as DS and aoe
alpine wraith
problem is most people dont even get to play rogue because leveling is a nightmare
so only people that reroll or already playa it play it really
hazy breach
Ye leveling obviously sucks
alpine wraith
i guess most people if they dont straight up quit
just go play something else that is not that tragic
swift tinsel
You know what’s not fun? Evokers. *checks demographics* oh it’s actually the onl...
idk blasting as a dragon was super fun
alpine wraith
evokers actually overtook us for a time
lucid jackal
The biggest "issue" rogue has is
- Energy is a repulsive resource to many players, especially it's one of the few that has it at all.
- The specs is usually takes more effort to get it's damage out compared to a lot of other specs
lucid jackal
But these aren't really, issues they are just features
But again, rogue has been unpopular for over 10 years
Has rogue never been fun in 10 years?
hazy breach
Has never been popular
lucid jackal
Is that your prescription?
hazy breach
Its literally always been last or close to last
left ledge
Energy isn’t a resource on sub
soft summit
What they should give sub rogue is a talent called lithium which reduces the low point time in half.
bright elk
Hooray for buffs, ST buffs next pls
jagged rover
I personally love energy classes, because its just potential damage. A lot of people hate not hitting buttons every second they can though
lucid jackal
It's always been unpopular
hazy breach
Hooray for buffs, ST buffs next pls
Why though, then we just get nerfed
lucid jackal
pliant topaz
me being like "if we don't get anything ptr of midnight it's over" and still pla...
u got 5 months then
slate marlin
im happy with the buffs either way
bright elk
Why though, then we just get nerfed
It’s generally more fun to top st fights than aoe trash packs imo, but I’m not being too serious there
slate marlin
spec i like is stronk
hazy breach
It’s generally more fun to top st fights than aoe trash packs imo, but I’m not b...
Ye but my point is that sub ST is already solid
alpine wraith
the gameplay is fine for the most part just rogue wont be fomo unless it is super top
lucid jackal
I think the fact that this is a damage amp tier, and also sub is tuned fairly competitively, and also that trickster is very good, and also that DSM seems to be a nightmare for a lot of fights is going to lead to a very good sub tier overall
alpine wraith
even when it was arguably one of the better classes people cba'd playing it
or just played it as an alt
as a flex pick and mained warr/monk/dh
pliant topaz
Idk what people who say rogue feels horrible to play even want
I did ask this in sin channel a while back when they were perma bitching about sin btw (post rework). i got 2 responses, 1 saying KB does too much damage, one saying target swap sucks thats all. xD I think i agree with guy, most people bitch to bitch
bright elk
Ye but my point is that sub ST is already solid
Are you talking about now or how we’re looking in the next patch? I haven’t looked too much into how we’re looking in season3
pliant topaz
I have my own reasons though.
lucid jackal
Mfers love complaining
Idk if u guys ever read those threads on reddit that are like "whats the worst class to play" and then ppl type about why they hate rogue
all their reasons are bad
alpine wraith
my problem mostly with sub rn are the annoying bugs and the sad complicated things like sub is not hard per se but i get dms daily of things that really dont make sense if you think about it
lucid jackal
Like straight up wrong bad and dumb
left ledge
Sub rogue is in a more fun state now than before the rework that’s for sure
alpine wraith
like the cd timers or why talents are spread like that
lucid jackal
I would agree
left ledge
I like spaghetti
lucid jackal
Like for example, what the fuck is this guy talking about
left ledge
But if I eat it every day for 5 years straight
alpine wraith
most of those things gatekeep rogue a lot
left ledge
I’m gonna get sick of it a bit
alpine wraith
people dont even get to the point of having fun on the spec
if their damage is horrible until it clicks
pliant topaz
The lack of talent variation
in terms of talents its mostly the aoe thats cooked and the aoe gameplay. i dont really care about lack of talents otherwise.
hazy breach
all their reasons are bad
Or antequated from BFA complaints
left ledge
in terms of talents its mostly the aoe thats cooked and the aoe gameplay. i dont...
Yeah basically what I meant
lucid jackal
rtb
left ledge
I just didn’t emphasize
slate marlin
people wouldnt be complaining about sub as much if it was arcane level of op
upper narwhal
Like for example, what the fuck is this guy talking about
You don't understand, pressing three buttons every 30 seconds is peak rogue gameplay
alpine wraith
Like for example, what the fuck is this guy talking about
rogue in cata was very weird tbh compared to now
people cant imagine a 5 sec burst window
right now imagine
left ledge
I don’t like flurry on sub, it feels weird. Or at least keep it as a low cleave option and give us real aoe
alpine wraith
if youre whole 24 flag button mash 2 or 3 dances
was just ambush ambush evis ambush evis 1 dance
and did the same or more damage compared to other specs
left ledge
MoP rogue was just the better version of cata rogue
alpine wraith
yea MoP was very good sadly sub was only very decent last tier kinda as always
left ledge
And classic rogue almost didn’t function in pve
bright elk
I’m surprised at how much I’m enjoying mop pre patch rogue
left ledge
Yeah mop classic is final patch balancing
bright elk
Feels wack to want to stack haste as sub lol
left ledge
So sub rogue will be happy there at least
severe prism
Personally losing sub funnel identity kinda bothered me, I thought it was fun
left ledge
Yeah losing sub funnel was def a weird moment
It excelled on the one boss a bit too much so they deemed funnel terrible for the game
alpine wraith
we also had 0 compensation and the azerites that came were so horrible
left ledge
Then proceeded to give it to like 7 other specs
sly shore
It excelled on the one boss a bit too much so they deemed funnel terrible for th...
look at current dh :D:D
alpine wraith
i will also never forgive blizz on the first dance rework azerite
the original one was so good
after the first buff
left ledge
look at current dh :D:D
Idrk what’s going on with dh
Haven’t touched the class in a while
swift tinsel
Haven’t touched the class in a while
about to get nuclear funnel with s3 tier
even after nerf
jaunty heath
My issue with sub is that it's aoe is meh, and then it's st is fine but as soon as you introduce funnel you just don't climb like other specs. Which is cool we don't HAVE to have funnel. But let me be great at something besides just cleaving which other classes do well anyway
pliant topaz
Personally losing sub funnel identity kinda bothered me, I thought it was fun
I def think stuff like this is one of the reasons i was so bothered
It felt like sub just had nothing for it, no identity, nothing to really make it stand out
for me, things like that matter a lot, dust was a cool identity which i enjoyed it made it special
then it got removed and suddenly i felt like wow lost everything that made it fun to me. i just couldnt bother to log
in
lucid jackal
My issue with sub is that it's aoe is meh, and then it's st is fine but as soon ...
Sub is great at having the single best burst CD int he game, not close
severe prism
Big burst window is what's left, at least this is still kinda cool 😎
lucid jackal
It's the defining strength of the spec that is going to carve its niche as the go to spec this tier
jagged rover
until this tier, Zul was the last fight I played my rogue on lol. Went over to healing until I quit the game until end of shadowlands. Finally back on my rogue now
hazy breach
It's the defining strength of the spec that is going to carve its niche as the g...
Being able to move around its small cds is also a very good niche
See bandit
jaunty heath
Sub is great at having the single best burst CD int he game, not close
I agree. I love it's burst. Just need a bit more DMG outside CDs imo.
alpine wraith
yea moving dances will be more easy now too with more cdr
lucid jackal
But thats not the identity of the spec
the identity of the spec is dropping a nuclear bomb
soft summit
Idk what people who say rogue feels horrible to play even want
I just told you. They need to reduce the low point. Take the bipolar ness out of the class
light finch
burst unaffected by pi or bl which is good too
wouldn't do the specc any harm to have some interaction with haste, having a dead stat isn't that good.
jaunty heath
Yeah. It got buffed a bit so it's better now, but it felt like it was so niche. Like you could just bring a WW this tier and do that shit for you bc they just did more DMG in raid anyway.
pliant topaz
Being able to move around its small cds is also a very good niche
i feel like these things feel to specific to make it a tangabile thing you can "feel" for most players. most times this never matters. giga burst is almost always w/e after week 3 when damage optimization isnt why boss isnt dying.
hazy breach
I just told you. They need to reduce the low point. Take the bipolar ness out of...
Idk thats what the entire spec is about though?
I mean sure you could press more 20k backstabs out of dance
Maybe that would make people like it more but idk
slate marlin
id rather have stronger dances
pliant topaz
like if your fantasy is woah i summon giant army of undead and go brr, theres something for you to play udk. its always there, you feel it, its tangible.
soft summit
I mean sure you could press more 20k backstabs out of dance
reduce the time out of dance. Or give us somethign to do other than backstab... wait.. backstab... wait.. backstab wait
pliant topaz
but i dont think anyones excited about once per expac being able to move 1 dance 5 seconds for extra pad
lucid jackal
Yeah. It got buffed a bit so it's better now, but it felt like it was so niche. ...
WW was tuned higher on the same CD as rogue yeah, but then WW got nerfed, and then sub was basically equal to it after that
hazy breach
Idk it literally happens all the time in keys
hazy breach
But ye high end skewed ig
severe prism
I personally don't mind having giga low moments as long as I get giga high ones, can't have it all.
lucid jackal
But this tier has damage amps, and subs damage being loaded into CDs is a massive boon
pliant topaz
keys are xd. thats almost something u can fix by routes etc if you have a group. it never feels like a special thing.
like even in keys i doubt the impact is that large (it never was when i played)
most thing i can think of is keeping dance for the first boss is nightmare dungoen thingy.
but that was just pain because my spec was so worthless i had to do it to be remotely useful, vs any other spec that could just deal with them without a problem
jaunty heath
Yeah but that's kind of where it matters. You want it good in early mythic prog when you're undergeared. And then tuning happens later and you swap anyway to sin or something. Like if it has a niche but it's not tuned well enough bc another class does it better, then that niche alone isn't good enough
lucid jackal
No niche in this entire game actually matters
the only thing that matters is tuning
jaunty heath
I think I completely agree with what ur saying, it's just the issue is, you have 20 other classes that can just be tuned higher without the niche and you just don't care about sub
pliant topaz
niche needs to be something u can build a fantasy around it in your head.
pliant topaz
it can be as simple as oh shit i press button my character bursts in fire looks dope
lucid jackal
Well good thing sub is tuned competitively rn
And also its niche is very easy to apply this tier
And its niche is extremely abusable
pliant topaz
not that my niche is i can move dance b y 5 seconds, and get +5k overall pad
jaunty heath
Well good thing sub is tuned competitively rn <:OMEGALUL:588187012067229697>
Agreed
I had a lot of fun on ptr
lucid jackal
The spec is good, and the fights allow you to abuse the main strengths of sub
It's like, a perfect tier for sub
jaunty heath
So far yea
I'm looking forward to it this tier
You're just gonna play sin when you need exe
swift tinsel
Unless they nuke trickster/tier from orbit I’m happy with sub going into raid
lucid jackal
Unless theres a new mugzee fight execute is borderline irrelevant
swift tinsel
And as long as weekly 10’s aren’t agony which I doubt will be the case I’ll push it through m+ for vault too
jaunty heath
Fair
lucid jackal
DSM Is also just dogshit on these fights to manage properly
swift tinsel
That whole tree needs to be taken out back
jaunty heath
I do too
lucid jackal
(for sin)
swift tinsel
Idk between the new set and shadowcraft it feels way more abrasive
Ah yeah idk about it with sin going into next tier
lucid jackal
pillar boss, DH boss
Even last boss, depends on how the flying shit works
platform boss too
the dragon dude with the platforms
swift tinsel
If you play sub, it’s a sub tier 
brittle plinth
I'm prepping boys
I'm laughing so hard at this
steel zinc
It's like, a perfect tier for sub
You say that every tier
werent you the outlaw guy? 😄
what happend
lucid jackal
I play the fun spec
lucid jackal
You say that every tier
It also happens to be true every tier 
vestal escarp
alpine wraith
yea sub is the premier spec for fun for me for the longest time just play it and enjoy game
they might buff assa into being better at some things but moving things around is always fun
torn storm
It also happens to be true every tier <:lilySmug:1103136516412289074>
So based and true
alpine wraith
and well m+ and pvp are other beasts entirely
i actually doubt rogue in those places but some people prove me wrong every time
having good friends/mates>meta always remember
swift tinsel
I legit only play for the vibes in discord 95% of the time
graceful osprey
So that black powder and nimble flurry buff lol
lucid jackal
Me when the good spec gets buffed
swift tinsel
If it means trickster is still ahead of ds, which it does, I’m happy
lilac stag
I legit only play for the vibes in discord 95% of the time
FDK and you can be a chill guy. 
swift tinsel
That’s my m+ toon lol
Pretty sure one of our warriors and windwalkers are going back to their dk’s next tier
Losing two ww’s now
lilac stag
back to 5%. Insta reroll
swift tinsel
They were both ww season one and two so I’m surprised they’re switching now
lilac stag
That’s my m+ toon lol
Apparently they doom way harder than us.
swift tinsel
Well, one was a dk main for a while and now that breath isn’t 2min anymore that was his impetus I’m pretty sure
Lmao frost channel is a weird place as is
They need to hashtag harder
lilac stag
figured I’d check those pins. Walked into that. lol
steel jolt
don't worry mages will issue another everyone tag and they will be back on top by tuesday
hazy breach
Fixing bugs that would make nimble do 25% more damage? ⛔
Buffing nimble 
swift tinsel
That’s what bothers me about it
The answer is right there
But instead we get the bandaid
lilac stag
As Armin said, this ain’t the first time, won’t be the last.
I get why he said fuck this
swift tinsel
Yeah it’s justified
lilac stag
really think the player base is just stupid
swift tinsel
Apparently it’s too outlandish for them to try for a few weeks to get nimble fixed then throw out the flat buff with a blue post saying “the code is too janky to get it to work, here’s a temporary buff while we figure it out”
Bc you know
Communicating is hard
steel jolt
is that something you'd really say in an announcement about yourself?
yeah i suck at my job so much we have to do something worse
kind of a crazy expectation if you ask me
lilac stag
Communicating is hard
Someone had to spend a hour typing 81 words for the blue post. Likely need 2 weeks of PTO after this.
swift tinsel
Someone had to spend a hour typing 81 words for the blue post. Likely need 2 wee...
Hopefully they offer EAP
swift tinsel
kind of a crazy expectation if you ask me
Not really. When there are iteration problems it’s normal to admit it as long as direction and/or intent is conveyed
lilac stag
If they wanted to fix aoe idk fix Sectech cap
fix flurry
4 more BP buffs and we Gucci
real panther
Or give us a trinket like boon. That trinket was funny lol
fluid moth
Bandaid probably faster to do than bugfix
Small indie company doing small indie company things
left ledge
im gonna take a wild guess that blades is calculated right after the damage from your ability cast is calculated, and that flurry behaves the same way
which means they'd need to rework how one of them is calculated by the game
OR
there's demon mode spaghetti
my bet is on the spaghetti
there has to be some irrelevant ass talent or ability that's completely bricking them working together 
hazy breach
I mean thats possible but its mostly just them not trying
left ledge
left ledge
great, id love to see more BP buffs
if that wasnt evident
imo 5 more BP buffs and we're living the good life
left ledge
oh yeah i guess there's that
tribal blade
yeah nice
pliant topaz
its like 2-3% aoe buff which is something ig
tribal blade
doesn't read as anything crazy
hazy breach
2-3% on dslice and like 5% on big cleave ye
tribal blade
btw sin tuning is also interesting
left ledge
sin is just a bunch of bandaids
tribal blade
looks like they actually tunneled trying to make bleed build better
all except the envenom buff
tribal blade
yeah true
hazy breach
Its mostly just more St
tribal blade
forgot that effects bleed too
hazy breach
without making the aoe better
tribal blade
true
left ledge
thats a big bleed for them in aoe yea
someone mentioned this earlier but it really would be interesting to get dev notes under these changes
just to understand what they're thinking of
tribal blade
THAT WOULD HELP A LOT
left ledge
yeah but i mean it'll never happen
i doubt it would even be a good idea for them lmao
im just so interested in what their end goal with BP is LOL
pliant topaz
i feel like these are really obvious changes man idk
sin -> buff single target without buffing aoe
hazy breach
5%? my little napkin math was like 3% on 8 targets
Sim difference is about 5.5% between nightly and latest, but maybe there was item changes that wasnt in the notes
left ledge
is it the most buffed ability in the game's history?
pliant topaz
sub -> buff aoe without buffing st
hazy breach
But since nimble+BP was like 50% or so it should be around 5%
left ledge
plush roost
black powder buff
left ledge
what a twisted reality, where BP closing in on evis in ST is a possible future outcome
swift tinsel
for the hero tree we don't play
tribal blade
oh nimble buff nvm yeah
this is what happens when i try to have conversations with no coffee in me
left ledge
i mean BP is still a button on trickster
hazy breach
Both are buffed by roughly the same amounts
left ledge
and the more it closes in on evis, the more we're going to press that button
hazy breach
Technically bp slightly more, but not enough to actually matter
pliant topaz
BP is not remotely close to evis on trickster
left ledge
BP is not remotely close to evis on trickster
5 more buffs
pliant topaz
based
left ledge
pliant topaz
deathstalker though....
left ledge
ok lets calculationate that
pliant topaz
for deathstalker its like 0.19 * 1.11 * 1.15
lilac stag
this is what happens when i try to have conversations with no coffee in me
Assa buffs.
left ledge
yeah so about 75% on trickster
hazy breach
Momentum is slightly more than 15% though, as its 15% crit and very minor crit damage
left ledge
and nearing 87% on ds
hazy breach
But ye