subtlety

[leaden prairie]

Which one is idol

[slate marlin]

the one from halls

cursed idol

or something like that

gives a shit ton of crit, even more shit ton of crit in aoe

[swift tinsel]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/item=246344/cursed-stone-idol

[leaden prairie]

Crit is idk

It's weird on outlaw

[leaden prairie]

Our hardest hitter is bte

[swift tinsel]

what about a truly insane amount of crit

[leaden prairie]

It's like 20/30% of our damage

[slate marlin]

its not crit zac

[leaden prairie]

And that thing Crit at like 100% basically

[slate marlin]

is a fuck shit ton of crit

[leaden prairie]

Ye I know

I'm just saying

Crit is weird for outlaw

[slate marlin]

ye i guess

[swift tinsel]

imagine having two channels

[leaden prairie]

Like the moments you would want stats are when you are in vanish

[swift tinsel]

and the shorter one isn't even yours

[leaden prairie]

But then Crit has low value cause you are pressing bte

Ah it's a channel?

No way then

[swift tinsel]

just one second

[leaden prairie]

Ye no way

[alpine wraith]

yea it is speed up fonting

IM FONTING

[leaden prairie]

Channels lose a lot of value very quickly for outlaw

[slate marlin]

Praying for 2 second killing spree

[leaden prairie]

• again Crit ain't that good

• it's a one use stat trinket which isn't good either

[alpine wraith]

well for outlaw with KS doing more dmg maybe it is still good

but i think it will get a 60% nerf or so

to give like 12k crit or less

[leaden prairie]

Ks is a 20s cd hacha

[slate marlin]

After nerf i doubt is better than seaforiun for outlaw now that i think of it

[alpine wraith]

rofl maybe you can even use 2 KS

[leaden prairie]

What are you gonna do with your 1min 30 cd trinket

[alpine wraith]

on the trinket effect

[leaden prairie]

Ok well

[slate marlin]

but what other trinket you want as law

[alpine wraith]

i mean as outlaw you juse send on cd

[slate marlin]

arakara egg?

[leaden prairie]

That's 15% of your damage

[alpine wraith]

what more do you want

[leaden prairie]

Ks

Not more

[alpine wraith]

maybe prism goes hard

[leaden prairie]

Maybe idk

Prism is interesting

[alpine wraith]

because you can pop it whenever you want

as outlaw

[leaden prairie]

Cause you can keep it when you have good rolls and shit idk

[alpine wraith]

like if anything needs dmg you have it there

[leaden prairie]

But it's like

Still a burst trinket

[alpine wraith]

and if not you can hold

[leaden prairie]

We don't synergyse well with these

No matter what you try to do

[alpine wraith]

it does a surprising amount of dmg either way

like 3-4% was it

[slate marlin]

maybe its double passive angle

[leaden prairie]

Yep

[swift tinsel]

sigil be sigiling

[leaden prairie]

But no stats on the trinket

[alpine wraith]

you could have ticking sac likely as outlaw

that shit destroyed asses

[leaden prairie]

It was ass lol

[slate marlin]

Maybe the 11.2 version of hoc once they buff it?

[leaden prairie]

[alpine wraith]

it was very op until it got nerfed 3 times

[leaden prairie]

Most bait trinket

[alpine wraith]

even after 2 nerfs if you did the tab when 1 stack was still doing a lot

[leaden prairie]

Idm why people gooned over it Perma

It wasn't any special

Wasn't any good

[alpine wraith]

well i mean after 3 nerfs you didnt use it

[leaden prairie]

I didn't play sac

At all

The whole sesosn

Never simmed higher

[slate marlin]

Eh theres still trinket tuning pending

[alpine wraith]

i didnt either

[leaden prairie]

Than other trinkets

[alpine wraith]

i like big boorst

[hollow spear]

What was the dps difference (% vs each other) between forge and prism at 4 min?

[hazy breach]

The standard 5 min sim its 0.2%

[swift tinsel]

~1.2% @ 4mins for me

in favor of forge

[hollow spear]

Can't wait to get back home, really lost with my mobile only

[slate marlin]

Same, and i have a thick white lane on the left side of my screen

makes it ass to read and type

[hollow spear]

Is the delta in favour of prism growing noticeably at 7 min?

[swift tinsel]

1.2% @6min, 1.6% @7min

ish

[hazy breach]

Its a bit messy since it depends very much on exact kill timers

[swift tinsel]

^

[hazy breach]

And by default simc has +-20% variance in terms of fight length

But like at 4:30 exactly forge is like 3% better than prism, but at 5:00 its the opposite

Since at 4:30 you only get 3 blades anyway, so holding it for 2 min and 4 min to align with forge makes it do big damage

But at 5:00 you get a fourth if you use it on cd

And if you dont delay you lose a cast of forge etc

[hollow spear]

Urgh, gearing will be cursed then, huh

Aintnoway I'll get my hands on both soon

[valid yoke]

So I was looking at my wowanalyzer and I’m a bit confused cos it’s saying I’m doing bad flags cos I don’t have shadow dance buff? Do I need to use shadow dance before flag? Feels like I’m wasting a gcd of dance then

I need to study some kill videos lol

[hazy breach]

Wowanalyzer doesnt support sub

So you can generally ignore whatever it says

[valid yoke]

Shit… I ain’t got a clue where I’m going wrong then

[hazy breach]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[valid yoke]

Gotcha, thank you 🙂

[hazy breach]

The coup/evis/shadowstrike moving around part is depending on your SHT procs and refunds, you do not want to shadowstrike if youre already at 7 cp just to make it look like the sequence above etc

[valid yoke]

Right

I just feel like my damage is super low for my ilvl lol

[swift tinsel]

sub tends to feel like that as you're putting things together because mistakes are quite punishing

[clever delta]

i love when my second dance isnt ready in time in flag:) i cri everytime

[lilac stag]

Use !log and one of us can also try to help

[valid yoke]

Oh awesome! Thanks

!log

[hollow cobalt]

how is sub looking for q3 on ptr? I play raid and MM+

[hazy breach]

Plays the same as now

There was 0 changes

[hollow cobalt]

last time i mained sub was in Shadowlands S1

but i feel like outlaw and sin are so annoying for mm+ now

with those re-stealth

and i rlly enjoy how sub plays so i hope it would be best spec for rogue

[sullen hare]

sub is looking very purple on ptr

[hollow cobalt]

what does purple mean?

[sullen hare]

you know, like the color. very purple

[hollow cobalt]

is it a good or bad color?

thats something is dependent to a lot of ppl

[hazy breach]

But numerically its looking good for raid, meh for keys

[hollow cobalt]

mhh

i see

[hazy breach]

Hopefully they fix some of the bugs so were better in keys

[hollow cobalt]

I hope also

[hazy breach]

Problem with being good/solid in raid is that youre unlikely to get m+ specific buffs as they mostly tune around raid

But well see where the blizzard tuning dice lands

[sullen hare]

watch it land on its side

[slate marlin]

Bp tuning knob incoming

[swift tinsel]

fixing blades with nimble would be huge for m+ without being insane for raid

[sullen hare]

new talent: [Premeditated Perforations]: backstab increases the damage of the next black powder by 11/22/34% (3 talent point node)

[hazy breach]

Exclusively backstab too, not strike

[valid yoke]

Yea thanks it’s a super fun spec but I’m a bit clueless lol

[sullen hare]

maybe Salted Wounds would be a better name for that talent

[hazy breach]

There should be more rupture talent(s)

[slate marlin]

hope they fix that and shadowed finishers not working for nimble

[swift tinsel]

or delete SF and make finishers shadow dmg

[slate marlin]

which are things that should have been bugfixed 1 year ago but oooh well

[slate marlin]

that would require a fond weakness rework so wont happen soon

[swift tinsel]

FW should be deleted too

[hazy breach]

It does work, it just gets reduced by armor

So it does a lot less than it should

[slate marlin]

kek

mb i thought it didnt work at all

[sullen hare]

no that's sblades iirc

[swift tinsel]

blades does not flurry nope

nor does flurry blades

[ripe flame]

Tried sub again for reclear yesterday, sucked dicks again

[sullen hare]

sucking dick is hard work, good on you

[slate marlin]

nothing wrong with sucking a cock every now and then

[ripe flame]

Thank you thank you

random question, say you have coup and you enter a no cds dance and sectec is not on cd, do I first sectec or coup inside the dance window?

[swift tinsel]

coup

bc if you sectech first you waste a disorienting strikes guaranteed Unseen Blade

[steel jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/charles-robinson-penis-thats-a-penis-himym-how-i-met-your-mother-gif-4703463

[ripe flame]

got it, thank you

[night sparrow]

coup first no unseen blade wasted + free danse macabre stack

[silent ruin]

if target isn't fazed, sec tech first, otherwise coup first

[wide maple]

How yall feeling abut sub in PTR?

[swift tinsel]

vibin

[vale pine]

tier set is good

so i would say positive in general

there are some min/max things that might be a bit weird

but thats future us problem

[hollow spear]

I'll blame Eleem and you anyways

[swift tinsel]

I'm interested to see where trinkets and the tier set land once everything goes live

and if we keep getting bug fixes in the next couple of weeks

didn't realize the rotten fix was on live too, thought it was just ptr

[left ledge]

I’m just waiting on the 2p DS vs 2p Trickster on release

DS needs to pull ahead

I need to experience dogshit

[swift tinsel]

the 4pc is where the dogshit gets shittier

if they fix the 2pc to interact with inev or pandemic its unironically pretty nice

[molten ivy]

Sorry for the stupid question I just came back to the game
Is it possible to track supercharged cps?

[north schooner]

yes

[steel jolt]

the default UI tracks them

[molten ivy]

Ah, I'm using afenars WA pack

[hazy breach]

2p trickster is better than 4p deathstalker

[north schooner]

afenar's might be the only one which doesn't track them

[hazy breach]

So i wouldnt hold my breath

[north schooner]

most WA packs do track supercharger

[molten ivy]

ok I'll just import somone else's cp bar into it thanks a lotr

[swift tinsel]

if you're familiar with weakauras editing it shouldn't be too tough to update afenar's bar color for charged cp

idk how they have it set up

[north schooner]

I used afenar's initially and had to do the modifications myself. It wasn't that difficult, just a bit repetitive

[swift tinsel]

something like Conditions for cp 1 if charged >=1 then color change, cp 2 =2

[north schooner]

you just needed 1-2 extra conditions per combo point to change color/border

[molten ivy]

I'm not super attached to a particular WA pack just yet so I'll just switch 😛

[swift tinsel]

lol that works too

[valid yoke]

We still thinking trickster is the way to go?

[swift tinsel]

yes

[vale pine]

yes

[swift tinsel]

tuned much higher and much better to play

[vale pine]

trickster is the stronger hero talent

[lilac stag]

for now

[oblique burrow]

do you have a symbol of death macro pls ?

[swift tinsel]

as much as I'd like them to be tuned closer for the option to play either, ds just feels so shit to play

[oblique burrow]

for not using it twice in a row

[lilac stag]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[vale pine]

ofc. we might see more tuning

[swift tinsel]

DS would have to be like 5-10% ahead for me to consider dealing with it lol

[valid yoke]

If only darkest night buffed sec tech lol

[swift tinsel]

and 15-20% to get me to actually play it over trickster

[valid yoke]

That’d be fun

[swift tinsel]

it sounds like it would be but actually playing with it would be cumbersome

[vale pine]

i think blizz should just release one hero talent per spec

could have added a 2nd one next xpac

so they had time to figure it out

[swift tinsel]

^^

esp that last point

bc there's def the shoehorned feeling for the spec that wasn't directly designed with it in mind

[valid yoke]

I do wonder what they’ll do for midnight for specs

[swift tinsel]

probs nothing

maybe a few get reworked or updated

housing probably getting omega dev time so its not Garrisons again

bc that was a legendary fumble

[valid yoke]

Maybe artefact weapons again)

[vale pine]

housing is def. assumed to be the big xpac feature

[hexed sluice]

I cant live without the pickpocket range increase so ill never go stalker

[swift tinsel]

if housing offers target dummies and npcs that provide all buffs for testing it's a resounding win

[north schooner]

the only dummy in my house will be me

[valid yoke]

I do wonder if people will make jumping puzzles with housing items that’d be kinda cool

[swift tinsel]

Oh I'm sure it'll be a thing if you can make them

[left ledge]

Just you wait

[lean cradle]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fickle mason]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fickle mason]

Is current tier set +3%(2pc) and +10%(4pc) for a total of 13 percent stronger then 11.2 tier set?

[hazy breach]

No, thats s2 stuff

So the old set is s1

[pliant topaz]

what would then be the point of hero talents? they sold it as "pick your fantasy" even if it completly failed, atleast tht was a selling point. if you release the expansion with "heres 10 more talents", then there are no "systems" to sell people on.

also a lot of other classes have actually viable hero talents (tuning aside, design wise they make sense)

its just some classes that got the classic blizz dick down

[valid yoke]

Surely the 11.2 set is stronger… it sounds stronger

Maybe terrible logic but I never liked the winning streak bs

[hazy breach]

Well yes

The sheet has nothing to do with s3

Hence the "Season 2" part on the top of the sheet

[bright sundial]

hi guys been following fdk on ptr but havent been with sub, how is it?

[chrome palm]

As of last testing fdk was decidedly the best melee, sub was middling

[bright sundial]

well tbh i should have worded that statment better, i meant as in gameplay no change or? could care less about dmg

been trying to main a tier with sub but just cant do it, everytime i tried i just swap to surv or fdk and this time im putting my foot down

[chrome palm]

No changes to the spec, tier suggests a slight rotation change, like pressing shuriken storm between coup de grace’s

[bright sundial]

is it casue if we use backstab/ss we munch a hidden proc

also ty for taking time to reply and ty for info

[chrome palm]

Basically but I haven’t seen the exact implementation

[swift tinsel]

storm/toss would be safe to cast

toss being slightly less energy cost

if outside dance/blades etc

[chrome palm]

Binding toss

[swift tinsel]

as if you don't already

[vale pine]

well, theme

also they could add one talent per xpac

for the "saga"

so you would have a total of 3

at the end

but enough time to work the out instead of the current form

[chrome palm]

2 dead hero talents

[alpine wraith]

nice deathstalker trickster and paganini

we just go in there with a violin

[sullen hare]

mmmm panini

[swift tinsel]

bard spec confirmed

[sullen hare]

I could make a panini this afternoon.. I have all the stuff to do it

[hardy snow]

isn't Aug already a Bard?

[alpine wraith]

yea but we need a spec worse than sub

well you have ds sub but an even worse one

also watch them put the DS bonus to 100% amp

and call it a day

my job here is done

[lilac stag]

right now there are 5 in raid!

[alpine wraith]

actually true!

[hardy snow]

when i tried to do double DN in dance and I realises that's a lot of energy this hero talent provides and all wasted

[hazy breach]

The bug makes double DN not really feasible

[hardy snow]

what bug?

[hazy breach]

That you cant get below 3 stacks of mark

When DN is up

[swift tinsel]

unless you wanna burn sod charges

which is truly stinky

[hardy snow]

what do you mean?

[swift tinsel]

sod consumes marks with 4pc

[hazy breach]

if you have DN up

You cant get mark below 3

[swift tinsel]

with DN up

[hardy snow]

why you get dn up and 3 marks?

[swift tinsel]

unless they changed it

[hazy breach]

If you strike

[swift tinsel]

as of a few days ago

[hardy snow]

shouldn't it be dn dance evis SoD to 2 marks and then do the 2nd dn?

[hollow spear]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[swift tinsel]

how would you do a 2nd dn if you're at 2 marks

[hardy snow]

with dn, dance, evis, 3marks, sod 2marks, strike evis strike evis strike dn?

[swift tinsel]

unless you mean sod to consume

[hardy snow]

it should work for that, doens't it?

[hazy breach]

Well yes but then you dont get it supercharged and without symbols

[hardy snow]

first dn could use last symbol somewhere, yea no super charged, but that's 14cp with dance and dn vs 10cp dn?
well, i never got the combination of s3 tier with DS and sub anyway.

didn't get time to even think about it

sounds like banans.

should have used dance for trigger and increase dance for 2s

[still anvil]

any ideas why coup de grace didnt trigger for two thirds of the fight? it looks like a bug to me, but im not finding it in the spreadsheet/github
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/q6Gh3KPAZBb1J4dz?fight=last&playermetric=bossdps&type=damage-done&source=11&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24damage%24-1%24174736464.0.0.Rogue%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%24462241|462242|462243|462244|462247|462248^0%24Separate%24%23909049%24auras-gained%24-1%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%24441786^0%24Separate%24%23a04D8A%24casts%24-1%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%24196819

[hazy breach]

Sometimes if you get lagspikes in the middle of the coup the next one bugs out

[still anvil]

thats unfortunate

because "the next one" is everything for the next 3 minutes, since without coup it also doesnt reset the stacks

[alpine wraith]

yea you have to log out kinda

just tell people i DCD

[hardy snow]

you lagged here, you gain EB after during a normal evis that should be coup, and it bugged i think

[alpine wraith]

dont worry lag is wonderful sometimes

[hardy snow]

EB: that should be a coup
Server: what's done is done, get another 4 EB
EB: I cannot get another 4 if you dont reset me
Server: nothing to be reset unless you cast coup

[limber dirge]

if my target isnt fazed and coup de grace is up, do i use black powder as a finisher

[hazy breach]

Well the deathstalker tier just sucks, not much else to it

[hazy breach]

Since that would mean youre close to flag (as otherwise you wouldnt have held coup) the best move is to not finish at all

[vale pine]

deathstalker is just not that great in terms of fitting subtleties design

and devs try to fix this by buffing numbers

[hazy breach]

The new tier doesnt fit assa well either

Cant really buff the deathstalker 4p either

Without adding more text to it or redesigning it

[vale pine]

thats true

[hazy breach]

So assa is probably gonna run 2+2 for a while

Or maybe the old set just sucks too much for that

[chrome palm]

inb4 shiv/sod removes 2 stacks of mark

@hazy breach with the 150% coup do you know if its a gain to supercharge that

[still anvil]

thank you :3

[wild hornet]

finally a good gally reclear

i can end this season happy

[pliant topaz]

they usually nerf those no?

[swift tinsel]

a lot of the time, yeah

they get an anti-boner for that kind of thing

[vestal escarp]

lately they've been more aggressive with that

[swift tinsel]

would be pure cinema if they gave DS marks ability to stack to 6

[vestal escarp]

wdym

6 marks before DN?

[clever delta]

surely you did not pad on adds, otherwise you will have nighmares

[swift tinsel]

adding stacks for trickster is something everyone wants

so giving it to ds would be gigatroll

[wild hornet]

one of the only reasons i reclear is to parse

first time i died cuz im dumb

second time i went in the opposite groups quadrant to not die and pad

[swift tinsel]

but in aoe would unironically help bc you're getting to DN slower and less risk of needing to cancelaura

lemme delete that before they put it in game

[vestal escarp]

i didnt pick the sarcasm

[wild hornet]

trickster is the sarcasm

[swift tinsel]

no it would be good

for trickster

[wild hornet]

deathstalker all the way

[vestal escarp]

for DS

bro

[hazy breach]

I havent checked, and i cba doing it.

Because theres kinda no shot it goes live like this anyway

Theyre either gonna remove the +50%, change it so it works like the tooltip says and hits the second coup or theyre gonna fix shadowed finishers (in order of likeliness)

Also why have wcl started grouping coup together with eviscerate

[swift tinsel]

wtf

[bleak night]

its a bit cursed yeah

[swift tinsel]

fuck off

[bleak night]

[north schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/kuzco-emperor-emperors-new-groove-emperors-new-school-reaction-gif-11799237333535967196

[swift tinsel]

stealthi tell your guy at wcl to not do that plz

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message

[bleak night]

the racoon was behind this

[blazing iron]

on the wow head guide, in the optimization section it shows it starts at '5' edit: does it actually mean like at step 5 in the above u replace everything after that with the optimization? like delay dance from step 3 to step 5?

[swift tinsel]

where are you seeing a numbered list under Optimizations?

[swift tinsel]

ah up there

[warm marlin]

I believe it is a holdover from when the vanish opener was recommended (i.e. first dance was delayed 2 globals)

the first image was updated to remove it but not the second one

[swift tinsel]

yeah that would make sense

[warm marlin]

backstab should also be the first global of that dance not shadowstrike

basically ignore the start of the optimization section, the main point is cold blood the second sectec of blades not the first one

[blazing iron]

ok thats what i thought and have been doing, my brain was just like hella lagging looking at it

[hazy breach]

I mean its not only annoying, the Avg Cast info is now completely incorrect

Or well, incorrect might not be the right word, but not useful

If you want to see how much an avg coup hits for

You now have to add all 6 Avg hits together

[warm marlin]

just gotta do evis cast/coup hits * avg cast of all 6 and add them duh

easy peasy great change wcl

[hazy breach]

because "Avg cast" now includes all of the basic eviscerates

And likewise if you want to see the avg cast of evisceates you'd have to add those two together

[swift tinsel]

https://imgur.com/1nUZrGo

[hazy breach]

Idk i posted over there, hopefully theyll sort it out

[blazing iron]

how big is 'nearby' for nimble flurry

[hazy breach]

8 yards around you

So slightly smaller than storm or bp which is 10 yards

[blazing iron]

gotcha, and for like the multi target rotation at 7+ bp basically just replaces evis, except u coup when its available and target is fazed?

[hazy breach]

7 targets on average ye
But you can also be tracking the amount of find weaknesses and then its BP at 5 find weaknesses

So for the most part youll just end up BPing in aoe except when coup is ready

Which is kinda jank because youll have to weave a storm in during rotten but then keep striking to proc the unseen blade and coups

Since storm does not proc unseen blade

[warm marlin]

incredible aoe dance window of backstab sectec storm coup strike bp

very sensical

[hazy breach]

Backstab > sectech > storm > coup > storm > coup > strike > bp

Very sensible yep

[warm marlin]

"random" backstab to start aoe builder for "st" finisher st builder for aoe finisher

not quite "for" of course but still funny

[alpine wraith]

someone made a cool FW tracker

[hazy breach]

But tbf the sim doesnt even like the rotten storm anymore

[alpine wraith]

i forgot who i swooped it

[hazy breach]

So its just gonna be striking and then if you drop below 5 find weaknesses you just start eviscerating

Which feels kinda terrible in practice

[alpine wraith]

dont worry you will storm between coups anyway to get somne FW back!

then it is back to looking

sub will feel like outlaw

reacting to every global

[lilac stag]

@hazy breach did you have a chance to test TFD resets on ptr?

[hazy breach]

Nah i cba playing with high ping

So im not going into a dungeon

[warm marlin]

didnt someone say the rotten fix was on live too

[alpine wraith]

nope tried just today

while making a video

[warm marlin]

unlucky

[alpine wraith]

and the tfd thing does still work on live but idk

maybe next week they snap it in

it is getting more unrealible

[swift tinsel]

does anyone else get crit errors when you try to log in and you have pending updates for classic/beta/etc

[bleak night]

no i crit just fine

[lilac stag]

Maybe you need a blue pill

[lean cradle]

!log

[hollow spear]

Why wouldn't it like it anymore?

[hazy breach]

Well after we changed it to 5 fw instead of 7 targets

Just wasnt worth it anymore in sims

[hollow spear]

So there's an argument to run finality in m+?

[hazy breach]

The sim says so but idk, doesnt feel worth it in practice

[bright sundial]

so still cope for talent tree rework in midnight?

[hollow spear]

Have to play around with the fw counter to see what the usual number is in big pulls without the rotten

[hazy breach]

Idk its really annoying since it drops mid blades

[hollow spear]

Really seems like I'm not using bp enough

Maybe it's the cursed storm between dances tech?

[hazy breach]

Not guaranteed crit either way, idk

Fix nimble so i can just strike and evis

[chrome palm]

I mean you just want 3 for it to be worth

[hazy breach]

(since bigger works are out of the question this late into the ptr)

[lilac stag]

Fix DN so you can BP

[chrome palm]

On large packs maybe it makes sense to send out one?

[hazy breach]

Well yeah deathstalker oof

4p actively fucks your mark so you want to cancelaura more often in aoe

[chrome palm]

https://tenor.com/view/jet-bean-killer-bean-ragdoll-ragdoll-fall-gif-23762382

[alpine wraith]

ahaha

[hazy breach]

And since 2p buffs clear the witnesses a lot its even more worth to do the cursed thing now

I havent double checked but im fairly sure Clear the witnesses by itself now does more damage than a DN eviscerate does on like 8-10 targets

That shit hits hard

And is uncapped

[chrome palm]

So dn for shuriken storm dam?

[hazy breach]

Well no

Strike another target before you proc DN

[chrome palm]

Oh is it every time you apply a new one?

[hazy breach]

Strike > BP > storm (use ctw) > bp > strike another target

Yes

And if you get a DN proc from tier or shadowcraft refunds just cancelaura it

This shit was like +8% in sims btw, not 0.5-1% like most optimizations

[chrome palm]

How close is it to trickster

[hazy breach]

Way behind

Hopefully stays that way

[haughty mural]

Where it should be

It’s too cursed

[alpine wraith]

it is rabid with new tier

can crit for 1m+ XD

uncapped btw dont le them know

bury it forever

[wheat edge]

thats why u have to clear the witnesses

[alpine wraith]

yea that is why we never make a video to not let people know the suffering

[hazy breach]

Singular focus is kinda whack now with tier 💀

[bitter kayak]

I’m asking in here because I know y’all understand every rogue spec

What should I be playing next patch

[bleak night]

probably spriest or frost dk

[bitter kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-huh-m4rtin-huh-huh-meme-what-cat-gif-5834484041415217257

[pliant topaz]

do it be goin brrrrr?

[hazy breach]

it definitely does in simc atleast

10% of the overall 💀

[bitter kayak]

Sub, sin or outlaw next patch

[pliant topaz]

ahahahahah i cant man. bp funnel going truly brrrrrr

[hazy breach]

Well swapping the mark around isnt ideal for funnel

I dont know how to get simc to swap between 2 specific targets instead of just targetting a "random" one

So the priority damage probably seems worse than it is

[wide maple]

ignoring dmg and tuning how does sub feel in PTR rotation wise? isnt it excactly the same?

[pliant topaz]

pretty much

exactly the same

[wide maple]

ok ill just text my friend at blizz we need a rework or something let me see what i can do

...... oh he already answered

"Working on mage sorry"

[swift tinsel]

Moroes flag this as offensive I beg

[hazy breach]

It still sims noticeably behind trickster so its ok

[manic mural]

Why is a yt video saying my sub rogue is gonna be the most ass of asses next patch

im about to crash out

[steel jolt]

they made a clickbait video and got you

mission accomplished

[manic mural]

Say word I am praying that it was clickbait

[tribal blade]

i wouldn't pay attention to that stuff too much

considering the very high amount of tuning that's gonna take place between now and raid release

[swift tinsel]

does it have the Gingi clickbait pic

[manic mural]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbHzmfJzmTc

Thats the vid

lol

[manic mural]

thats really reassuring. I always forget this

[swift tinsel]

Yea should never really pay attention to tier lists ever

[steel jolt]

i dunno how you can take this seriously

not only did you fall for the clickbait, but you perpetuated it

[tribal blade]

big issue with content creators is they're always thirsty for content

so they will drill every possible angle

no matter how bad it is

and tier lists garner a lot of views

[steel jolt]

preying on fear and rage baiting are very popular angles for this stuff

[tribal blade]

haha yeah

[steel jolt]

people are afraid their favorite spec will suck and they are mad that other specs are doing better

[manic mural]

My bad muffin thanks for being so critical of my blunder

jesus christ

[tribal blade]

don't sweat it, i post tier lists in here sometimes

[manic mural]

ur acting like I was spreading bigotry to young children

lmao

[steel jolt]

sorry i'm not trying to flame you. i'm trying to help you understand why it doesn't make sense to believe what the content creator is telling you

i guess Prophet did a better job of that

[manic mural]

U mean prophet?

[steel jolt]

ooh yeah

[hazy breach]

For raid sub is pretty much always going to be really good unless its tuned at the absolute bottom

[manic mural]

I thought u were like flaming me cuz u were saying I perpetuated it

I was like no way i just want reassurance here lmao

[hazy breach]

Being able to hold nearly all of your damage for exactly when you need it without losing much (if anything) is just insanely powerful

[tribal blade]

yeah i've been p much only playing sin recently in all content, but i think i'm gonna go back to sub for next tier

[hazy breach]

But its aoe is just tuned very poorly (and buggy) so the burst just isnt that strong

And when all you do is burst its not great if your burst isnt some of the highest

[tribal blade]

to me sub right now in aoe feels like you forgot to put an on use talent on your bars

[hazy breach]

But for example on rik reverb, very few specs can choose to "store" their small bursts specifically for barrels without losing out on damage

Whereas delaying dances for sub is completely fine

[tribal blade]

feels like it should have 1-2 extra steps that aren't there

[tribal blade]

yeah the sin channel having a !rik command that tells you to respec sub is funny

[hazy breach]

Hopefully we see some aoe tuning and/or bugfixes so sub is better in keys

[hazy breach]

The difference is very stark since sin is among the worst specs for it and sub is among the best

[tribal blade]

oh yeah for sure

[hazy breach]

But ye not only are fights looking good for sub (and not particularly fun for deathstalker assa)

But ST sub seems to be very solid

[tribal blade]

i get to come back to my baby

hopefully this time round blizz doesn't do absolute ape behavior on early tuning

[hazy breach]

Idk sub does solid numbers right now in raid too

Not MM or dev numbers, but you know, still good

[short radish]

someone post the fuu tier list

[vagrant sinew]

which boss did you mean here, I didnt test everything but it seemed ok

[hazy breach]

I mean its obviously playable, you just hold your DN, but both the demonhunters and the penultimate boss has a bunch of target swapping where you can fuck it up

[vagrant sinew]

yeah nexus prince prob might be an ussue

And not worried about soulhunters lol

Were either killing then in under 2h or skipping

[hazy breach]

Idk "optional" is just weird

[vagrant sinew]

Why does blizz decide to put in a skippable boss is beyond me

[hazy breach]

But it doesnt really matter

People are gonna kill in what order is the easiest

As per usual

So unless fractalman is way easier youre probably still gonna kill demons before him

[vagrant sinew]

Well if theyre not a pushover theyre not worth time pulling probably

For us atleast

[hazy breach]

I mean they drop tier and all regular loot

I dont see why they wouldnt be worth

Obviouisly if its like a brick wall with 300 pulls you just skip and wait for nerfs

[bleak night]

tier and giga boots

[hazy breach]

But assuming its reasonable

[vagrant sinew]

Dont need gear even at our wr

In week6 or whatever

[hazy breach]

Idk i just dont see people skipping it

[vagrant sinew]

I can :p but like I said depends on tuning

If its council of dreams you kill, if its 80% as hard as nathria council ye bye

[hazy breach]

Since stuff like WR are decided by when you get 8/8 its just gonna be really fucking weird after you kill last boss to go "um aschually we need to kill this boss too so we can be done with the tier"

[vagrant sinew]

I doubt theyre skipping

They might come back to it end of reset tho

Just depends how it works out

[hazy breach]

Whos they

Im referring to everybody

[vagrant sinew]

Oh I read rwf

[hazy breach]

Aschually were technically world rank 293 because thats when we killed dimensius but we hadnt killed soulhunters yet so thats why raider.io is showing us at 320

[swift tinsel]

saying they're optional then making the cloak-buff boots drop from them is funny

[hazy breach]

The cloak does kinda shit damage so the boots arent really that great

Obviously better than nothing

But not insane

[vagrant sinew]

hey Im not saying youre wrong its just dumb they made it optional

[hazy breach]

Ye its weird

[vagrant sinew]

but think of it logically lets say options are
a) prog and 2 reclears of soulhunters
b) 40 extra pulls on dimensius

like its honestly not close

maybe you just come back to them 2-3 weeks after you could have done them but you arent done with the tier aswell

but with their position in the raid they definetly have a chance of being a not of a pushover boss

[hazy breach]

Assuming the simc implementation isnt insanely off (which it usually isnt with these types of things) the cloak is doing around 1.1% with the bonus boots, so around 0.7% without

So those extra boots are basically an extra focusing lens

But maybe the cloak ramps over the patch, i have no idea

[swift tinsel]

aren't the boots simming as bis by virtue of their stats alone

or did I miss something when I was putting things together for a profile

[hazy breach]

But ye the boots (which from the looks of it is personal bonus loot???) is probably intented to be the "motivation" to go kill it, despite it being optional

[hazy breach]

Well ye for us they are

But not necessarily for all other specs

[vagrant sinew]

again, that doesnt really matter, time is the most important factor here

[swift tinsel]

ye true

[vagrant sinew]

the gear would need to be insanely crazy to be a consideration

[hazy breach]

Ye but you still need to kill them anyway

[swift tinsel]

plus sigil is a nice trinket

[hazy breach]

Like youre not gonna be done with the tier until youve killed all the bosses

[vagrant sinew]

yes but like I said it then all loops back to their difficulty :p

[hazy breach]

But it doesnt

[vagrant sinew]

we can just smoke them 2 weeks after with 8 more ilvl

[hazy breach]

Even if you kill it after dimensius

They still have to die

[bleak night]

skipping them sacrifices ilvl for harder later bosses in exchange for having more ilvl when you come back to them

i dont think thats a worthwhile trade

unless they're just insanely overtuned

[vagrant sinew]

what wr do you raid at bel

because I can guarantee you its worth it for everyone outside of top5

unless youre some 5 day guild then you were never going to skip them anyways

[bleak night]

i mean this entire conversation is under the assumption that you're in a guild that cares about wr

[vagrant sinew]

since youre doing 5hc splits week4 anyways

[bleak night]

but also i dont see my shitter guild skipping them either

because what do we gain

[hazy breach]

You might skip them on reclear sure

[vagrant sinew]

the time spent for marginal ilvl of 4 items and maybe some vault options is almost never worth it

the boss literally has to be like I said

[hazy breach]

But you have to spend the time anyway

[vagrant sinew]

under 2h prog

[bleak night]

you have to prog them at some point anyway

why is it worth having the higher ilvl for them later but not worth having the higher ilvl for other bosses

[hazy breach]

Presumably fractalman is gonna be a dps check anyway so you probably need all the loot you can get

[vagrant sinew]

I mean I can give you stupid example if you want

my guild killed gally 3 days in real time after Eleems

but my guild has less pulls on gally, mugzee, bandit and sprocket than them

so where do you think the difference comes from

[bleak night]

sounds like your guild needs to play more katamari

but stix was also a very hard boss

at the start

like i said, if dh are overtuned like that then sure, skip and wait for nerfs

but if they're tuned normally for a boss of their position in the raid there's no point

[vagrant sinew]

same pulls on stix aswell

like I said the difference is time.

[bleak night]

then im failing to see what the point is

[hazy breach]

Skipping them doesnt give you more time though

[bleak night]

skipping a boss and coming back to it later wouldnt have changed the amount of time you spent

[vagrant sinew]

the time spent pulling a boss after them

is worth more than their gear

[vagrant sinew]

??

[bleak night]

im ngl i genuinely dont get where you're coming from

i dont think eleem does either lmao

[vagrant sinew]

trust me he does he just doesnt agree with me

which is fine

but like I said my guild will be skipping this boss (cant say for how long) unless its a total pushover

[bleak night]

i just dont agree its worth, but its not my guild

i dont make those decisions anyway i just hit bosses

[vagrant sinew]

well my guild finishes top10 by least pulls in most tiers so it works for us ig

[hazy breach]

Its moreso pulling the harder bosses with less gear, not necessarily the gear from the boss but a week earlier

That i dont think is gonna net as much time overall as you think it does

[vagrant sinew]

or least prog hours, or however you wanna name it

[hazy breach]

Since the boss still has to die at the end of the day, youre just borrowing time from one boss to the next

But hey

[vagrant sinew]

I mean you are doing that to an extent

[hazy breach]

Thats all assuming its not insanely overtuned

[vagrant sinew]

but you cant be serious and say youre spending same time on that bosslets say week2 compared to week5

:p

[hazy breach]

Well no

But the harder bosses take more time

[bleak night]

yeah obviously you'll kill this specific boss in fewer pulls if you do it later

but is it worth going to harder bosses with less gear + less time for nerfs/raid buffs

[vagrant sinew]

yes because were not rwf

youre also talking about 1-2 kills on 1 boss

[bleak night]

i'd argue waiting for nerfs/rep buffs matters a lot more if you arent rwf lmao

if we got to later bosses without the handicaps we had we'd have spent way longer on them

so if we skipped sprocket or something in order to get there earlier

[vagrant sinew]

well thats why I asked for your wr

[bleak night]

it wouldnt have helped us overall at all

[vagrant sinew]

because guilds between wr50-150 are believe it or not quite good for most part

and for alot of them their main limiting factor is just time

[bleak night]

im not saying they arent, but you also cant say that bosses getting nerfed wont impact your pull counts on them

if you skip dh and go to fractalman or some shit then pull him a bunch

and he gets nerfed the next week

well done skip

[vagrant sinew]

thats pre hof filling man, the boss is either already nerfed because top20 was struggling or its tuned fine and its not getting more nerfs till hof fills up

the biggest breakpoint would be the 3% raid buff

not 4-8 extra items from an optional boss

and if theyre nerfing stuff next reset thats almost always announced before the weekend so its not hard to account for

unless rwf is still on and theres obvious problems

like what happened on stix for example

and mugzee to a smaller degree where they just kept nerfing the boss like 3 more times after it was already in an "okay" state

[bleak night]

tbf i looked and realized it was 5th boss, for some reason i thought it was 4th

i still dont think its saving you much/if any time

but i could maybe see it

still leaning towards eleems side though

[lilac stag]

I thought all the top 20 guilds wanted the bosses hard and not nerfed. So by skipping it you’re wanting nerfs? or am I missing something?

[hardy snow]

Why the critical 90s trinket not on sale? and two same passive ones?

[chrome palm]

Monday night stix nerf was soooo cool

[celest night]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[dry plank]

mr buyer detected

soon top sub rogue xD

[graceful crown]

Work 14 xddd

[alpine wraith]

maybe he just hates it

kek

[tepid trellis]

all besides one of them was done on the 15th

[alpine wraith]

what an efficient man

[dry plank]

he just woke up 2 days ago and said to himself 15 is not my level and went straight to 20

[keen dome]

He went super sayian for M+

[alpine wraith]

maybe he said

[keen dome]

Reached a new power level that day

[alpine wraith]

wait a second i dont really need 300 million gold

[graceful crown]

Hhahahag

[leaden prairie]

lashga has more gold

this guy wont get r1 sub

[alpine wraith]

wallet 1v1

who has better friends

[tight sparrow]

Is he that bad ?

[leaden prairie]

idk

he has a lot of golds tho

[alpine wraith]

he is not bad but just got very defensive when zac just hit him

with facts

[vestal escarp]

[alpine wraith]

dont

[tight sparrow]

Funny guy but toxic

[vestal escarp]

Discord trolled

[alpine wraith]

he got sent to the shadow realm if you didnt remember

[leaden prairie]

he left no?

[alpine wraith]

he was a funny one will miss him

[vestal escarp]

Yeah that was the point

[north schooner]

no way they compete with the russian sub god anyway

[alpine wraith]

nope he got kinda crazy then banned

[keen dome]

That russian guy who just goes hard on Sub has some real passion.

[alpine wraith]

chug some vodka

then just PLAY

THE GAME

[dry plank]

oof that is rude stereotype'

[vestal escarp]

No it's clear

[tight sparrow]

His coooking no flag build
In shadow realm

[leaden prairie]

ye, i was quite sad when his r1 in s2 got stolen away

[north schooner]

you cannot see rainbow colours in the shadow realm

[dry plank]

buyers with resil key go crazy this season i guess

[leaden prairie]

you would think so

i have had some pretty demonic buyers

we tried to boost a fury war in a flood 20

he ended up the dungeon doing tank damage

litteral tank damage

[north schooner]

[leaden prairie]

we gave up on him

[alpine wraith]

sorry bro you too bad

[leaden prairie]

ye

[alpine wraith]

well tanks still pump quite a bit but still

was he sub 3 mil?

you think it is doable if he does 4 or so

[north schooner]

that fury warr was a prophecy for s3 outlaw ST

[leaden prairie]

At some point no amount of gold can compensate your skill you know

[leaden prairie]

I mean we depleted on timer but had a few deaths, it's definitely doable just not worth the time

[alpine wraith]

there was a boss that also put mechanics on corpses

[leaden prairie]

He should be paying 3 times the price

[alpine wraith]

i dont remember which

was super hard to boost

[north schooner]

do the people who are too dog to get boosted get a refund?

[leaden prairie]

yes

you pay when you time a key

or like before but we refund if not timed

usually you juust do it till you time with resil now

but this guy we just refunded and sent him his way

[vestal escarp]

Discharged soldier

[north schooner]

i would say "poor guy" but people buying boosts don't deserve compassion

[leaden prairie]

i think its just people that want the achiev

cause wow is a collector game

or idk

idk why else you would get boosted

i know i have had some people taht just wanted to play high keys

and its easier to get boosted than sit trough lfg and grind for an entire season

but ye

I don't care much, I don't think boosting in wow is an issue like in league

People get boosted then don't play the game anywya

Won't ruin anyone time

[alpine wraith]

for pve i dont mind either

pvp is a minefield tho

i remember around 2400-2700 it being a fiesta

i kinda gave up on it im not good enough to pug vs r1 people

as all my friends quit ages ago

[lilac stag]

He used to be good. Now washed chasing ghosts of the past to get r1 with friends who really like gold.

[void ocean]

dopamine game 😄

u hate the process but love the end result

[vestal escarp]

#subtlety message

[tight sparrow]

But why would you buy boost when your decent player i dont get it is it that hard to get inv on high keys ?

[vestal escarp]

It's grindy

[lilac stag]

he’s not that good any more and no one wants to invite a sub rogue

[void ocean]

who we trashin

[lilac stag]

Why carry a spec for free when you can earn gold

Our favorite homophobe

[runic trail]

Ryukage!

[north schooner]

dunno if it's about title range they do fuck over people who spent a lot time trying to reach it legitimately. Getting boosted to 3k for the mount is whatever

[leaden prairie]

eh

tbf

i do think title range is a meme

[tight sparrow]

What if they bring m+ solo que

[leaden prairie]

im happy to see it get a tiny bit ahrder

from boosting

if thats even relevant

[tight sparrow]

Ranking system

[leaden prairie]

like r1 in pvp comapred to pve

not comparable

so

[north schooner]

aren't they both 0,1%?

[leaden prairie]

ye

But PvE is lowered by the huge amount of people that do m+ for gear

Instead of competitively

like if you wanted a real 0.1% that compare to the pvp one you would prolly check only keys above 12 ?

[north schooner]

above 10 I suppose since 12s don't give better gear

[tight sparrow]

They should give tittles for specs

Title by spec ranking

[leaden prairie]

vault no?

[tight sparrow]

With this fix people dont need to play meta

People will play what they want if they bring spec 0.1%

[leaden prairie]

ye

one outlaw rogue per season get title

based

10k boomies

[tight sparrow]

not fair

[dry plank]

r1 should spec based yeah because of shit balance

[vestal escarp]

Half rogue

Rounded down

[dry plank]

like solo que in pvp

[vestal escarp]

Unsure if there are 1000 outlaws with score above 12s

Same for sub

Prolly more likely for sub

[north schooner]

vault is 10, the only reason 12s were needed this season was turbo boost vendor

[vestal escarp]

Up to 12s you get better rewards

Crests and valostones

[north schooner]

both of those are worthless though

[vestal escarp]

Rn

When they dont matter

When they matter they're not

[north schooner]

crests are weekly capped anyhow, it doesn't matter if you get 4 extra from +12 instead of +10

all that matters is that you only need +10 for the mythic vault

[tight sparrow]

End of the day m+ ranking system needs rework + resilient system need more adjustments and tbh they should bring something else like every week is kinda same.

[rotund pawn]

i think most people got 3k for mount and tokens and called it with going higher

think that mount was biggest motivator before turbo boost

[lilac stag]

high end key pushers will never be happy with any system blizz puts in.

[north schooner]

yeah there is not much incentive to do anything after if you cannot do title. It's only for people who just enjoy the challenge but you know how wow players work without a carrot

[vestal escarp]

And yet they're so few....

[lilac stag]

making it enjoyable for 3k goals would serve the masses best

[lilac stag]

why play a system that isn’t fun

“Maybe blizzard will fix it” just after they fix rogue.

[leaden prairie]

ye like say a rotating set of buffs to the dungeons, sepcial mechanics you would need to do for the week

for example

say a week you need to kill some sort of bombs on a timer

before they explode

and kill you

or hear me out i have another one thats even better

[lilac stag]

and then you avoid those week that suck.

[leaden prairie]

just thought of it

[tight sparrow]

Thats explosive

[leaden prairie]

say like, wehenver you kill a mob, every mob around get 20|% more health

so you need to kill all mobs at the same time

[rotund pawn]

sounds crazy

[tight sparrow]

And its sane idea with boalstring

[lilac stag]

maybe an week that has something a rogue can’t do anything to help with

[leaden prairie]

ah ye i think i got one

like some sort of dude you need to dispell

otherwise it explode and the whole grp get a debuff

[lilac stag]

a buff that gives you haste!

[tight sparrow]

Did you guys see the new checkpoint stuff in dungeons

[leaden prairie]

like say idk, haste reduction

ye

[runic trail]

I still need to get that, I've been at 2987 for 2 months now

[rotund pawn]

if you are so close, force yourself one of these days to push through the finish line

[runic trail]

Yeah I've been meaning to for a while, I just very much do not enjoy m+

[slate marlin]

what about when mobs die they leave a pool that heal other mobs

banger

i did enjoy seasonal affixes like encrypted or the sl s4 one, the demons u had to kill

[leaden prairie]

ok but that change every season

you asked for something that changes wweek to week

which are affixes

which was terrible for the game

terrible

[slate marlin]

agreed

affixes were shit

you can play the game on a not push week? get fucked noob

[rotund pawn]

how did you guys like s1 of DF, the polarity seasonal affix?

[lilac stag]

@leaden prairie is still a 5 second channel?

[leaden prairie]

they havent adressed a single complaint about ks

after asking directly for feedback

you know how it is

[lilac stag]

me if they actually do

[leaden prairie]

sure

[void ocean]

but u dont get to die anymore, innit?

[leaden prairie]

worse spell in the game is reworked to 2nd worse spell in the game

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/its-something-something-here-you-go-it's-something-its-something-funny-gif-1669161523447633417

[tight sparrow]

I still pref old ks

Sending it with 1-2
Cp was fine

[void ocean]

wheres that video of guy ks-ing on Sprock

[tight sparrow]

Cinder 1st boss. 2nd phase u cannot press it

Unless 1-2 cp gamble

Dfc also candle boss u can only press it before candle respawn or again 1-2 cp gamble

Rookery 1st boss 🙂 cannot press it during intermission

Most of the bosses cannot even send it on cd

[tribal blade]

wait new ks isn't good?

this is news to me

what's going on

[tight sparrow]

Its just get worse

Imo

[void ocean]

outlaw madness, classic

[runic trail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/741275386188529734/1372656620034592869/3882ade1b2e0cab5893c24ec180af244.gif?ex=686cc858&is=686b76d8&hm=b2131c26c669481d07c5d408291b9892addc23bb2e13eaab9c7770f8dd518374&

[void ocean]

ty, good sir

[leaden prairie]

well its good cause you cant die from it anymore, adn its a gun thing so thats cool

[runic trail]

Its better than old KS but that's a low bar to clear

[leaden prairie]

but its a longer channel than on live

[tribal blade]

ohhh right the channel

[leaden prairie]

up to 5s at max cp supercharged

cant kick cc during it

[tribal blade]

LOL 5s

that's an eternity

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/krill-issue-skill-issue-krill-issue-gif-25572478

[leaden prairie]

rng targeting

so yue idk

[slate marlin]

5s og no gcds for outlaw

crazy

[leaden prairie]

its better sure

it wasnt hard to do better tho

[runic trail]

Nah sometimes you just gotta kill your raid

[leaden prairie]

if i got that ability as a new ability added to outlaw i would be fuming

[runic trail]

They deserve it

[leaden prairie]

im only not that mad cuase it repalce ks

[tight sparrow]

You know what would be cool if. You could remove the debuff with fireblood

Or stonefoem

Form

[lilac stag]

What does the apm drop down to with the channel?

[tight sparrow]

Im pretty sure ks is channeling faster with more haste or lust

But i dont think new ks is interacting same with old ks

[lilac stag]

you’re only getting it so low

[tribal blade]

they could have just made it a fixed time channel and scaled the dmg with CPs

make it a 1-1.5 second channel

done deal

[lilac stag]

Realz gave them the add 10 energy requirement to shuriken storm.

[tribal blade]

I HATE IT

[lilac stag]

I’m not wrong though.

[tight sparrow]

The idea is spreading UB in aoe. Ks itself is decent aswell but main reason is spreading ub

[leaden prairie]

idk

thing is

it doesnt really lower the apm really

[tribal blade]

i would be so happy if they reverted the storm energy cost

[leaden prairie]

you just afk for 5s

then its outlaw

just as fast

[lilac stag]

Welcome to sub outside of CDs

Good luck have fun

classic realz friction

if it’s in sims I’d be curious to see the apm difference

[leaden prairie]

crazy thing is even guy said it was too long of a channel

[runic trail]

He's giving the outlaw players a chance to have a drink and stretch their legs, like the other specs

Realz is just looking out for you

[tribal blade]

5s is more than half of dance's duration

that's a long ass time

[leaden prairie]

on outlaw

its quite long

[tribal blade]

given how fast outlaw is yeah

[leaden prairie]

i think on avg its gonna be more like 3 or smth

since you dont supercharge it always

but idk man

[tribal blade]

3 is still excessive

[leaden prairie]

it doesnt feel good at all

evne ww cast is like 1s rn

[lilac stag]

I genuinely wonder if this is how they decided to force slow it down

[tribal blade]

i wouldn't be happy either

[tribal blade]

nah i think they just have no clue what they're doing lol

given recent history

[lilac stag]

idk if they have had a clue since wod

[tribal blade]

it's just weird

makes no sense

[lilac stag]

my narrative is ion’s nephew, who designed RTB, has decided the spec plays too fast now.

[tribal blade]

is that actually who designed rtb?

[leaden prairie]

idk, the weird part is that every single feedback is that, its too long

and they did nothing to adress it ..

idk ..

[tribal blade]

welcome to sub rogue life

[leaden prairie]

When everyone agrees on something being not fun i don't get why you keep it that way ngl

It's like

Who does that serve

You make players unhappy with your product

So what's the point

Genuinely confuses me

[tribal blade]

the grand conspiracy is they genuinely don't give a shit because rogue population numbers are so low

no point in putting time and thought into a class that doesn't bring more money

[lilac stag]

Welcome to the realization that they don’t care about feedback or what players think.

[alpine wraith]

they have their idea and use it

or forget

[lilac stag]

at least not on rogue, warrior or ww

[alpine wraith]

or just dont play the game as rogue