subtlety

[glacial orbit]

s3 raid has lots of amp phases ?

[hollow spear]

Yep

No clue how well they align, but there's quite a few

[vale pine]

the raid design plays well into subtlety

[glacial orbit]

nice

thinking about going sub for s3

since i played the other two specs on s1 and s2

[runic trail]

Sub tier aw ye

[hollow spear]

People will start playing sub, mess up their cooldowns and have none for damage amps

Then they'll come here and complain

Calling it today

[keen dome]

Haha

Hell yeah

Break out the "I was forced to play sub" meme

[heady dragon]

and sub will still be the prog spec anyway and then y'all act as if sub is bad because after 3 aura buffs people start playing assa again

aka what happend the last 5 tiers

[glacial orbit]

i dont think people will play sub

sub was insane in amidrasil and people still didn't play the spec

[keen dome]

If we don't complain then what will we talk about???

[pearl swan]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[hollow spear]

We could leave the complaining to scath, he basically solo carries this channel

[oblique burrow]

Dont worry, we also complain in the ass rogue channel

[keen dome]

Rogue's are very competent complainers

[glacial orbit]

we earned that

[keen dome]

I wonder what class complains the most (it's mage)

[formal helm]

basically balkans of wow? 👀

[glacial orbit]

mage paladin hunter

[bleak night]

its definitely boomkin

[keen dome]

lmao, maybe. I was thinking about the English more.

[glacial orbit]

and druid too

especially the chickens

[bleak night]

but we'd rival them if there were more of us

[glacial orbit]

they are also the classes that get the most attention too

[hollow spear]

I thought Germans were #1 complainers

[keen dome]

The English will complain about nothing.

[formal helm]

🤷 myb
I know our prof in highschool told us how if you're learning croatian as a foreigner they have to specifically warn you that we complain as a culture thing

and not bc we're actually really unsatisfied

could be europe thing in general 🤔

[runic trail]

Gotta pass the time somehow

[formal helm]

legit.

whatcha gonna talk about? the weather?

altho tbh, weather's been kinda crazy these days

[keen dome]

kindered spirits

yeah man it's SO warm

[bleak night]

we could talk about our impending doom

[formal helm]

okay we had the hot part like a week or so ago

[keen dome]

It's gonna hit 31c here today. That's not normal!

[formal helm]

and then this fking storm came

and it went from 40C to like 20C

fucking freezing here rn

also ofc the storm that came caused major dmg everywhere

[keen dome]

I want snow

[formal helm]

Split was a sight to see during it

[formal helm]

I don't for one specific reason and that's shoveling it

[keen dome]

Never experinced that in my life so I will remain blissfully navie

[formal helm]

ye.

imagine waking up for work / school / uni w/e

and then having to shovel for an hour or 2

1st.

ye. good joke snow.

[keen dome]

Geez

[cloud rover]

Yeah

[keen dome]

The most we get is a few inches and the entire country stops functioning

[cloud rover]

Having to shovel

[formal helm]

also ice on roads is fucking shite to deal with

[cloud rover]

so nobody can sue you, when they trip infront of your house

[formal helm]

oh ye

that's a thing too.

[cloud rover]

Are you german

[formal helm]

croatian

[heady dragon]

look at Mister Rich man over there, owning a house

[cloud rover]

OK i thought this is such a german thing

but apparently not

[formal helm]

huh? houses are pretty cheap-ish here

[cloud rover]

Well i bought it from my mome

[formal helm]

think you can get like a 80m2 with some 600-800m2 yard here for like 80k-120k

€

[cloud rover]

for the rest of the debt she had

so

Definitely not rich

[formal helm]

based

[cloud rover]

[formal helm]

I'm just living with my parents till I finish uni

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[formal helm]

4 more years

mby I find a rich gf so she bails me out? 👀

[cloud rover]

im living with my mom in that house, but we will seperate it now to 1st floor for her and 2nd floor for me

[formal helm]

we only have ground floor kinda

[heady dragon]

hahahahha, yeha, until i finish uni

[formal helm]

attic has one room that's been used

that's where I moved

but attic has an outside enterance

and no bathroom etc

so 🙂

[formal helm]

eh, should be doable getting at least an apartment when I finish

decent salary in my sector

[keen dome]

Just keep going to Uni

Never leave

[formal helm]

[cloud rover]

Thats everyone who starts uni

[keen dome]

it's true

[heady dragon]

the only person in my friend group that managed to move out by themself, got told that they need to leave in 4months by their landlord

i love the living situation here

[formal helm]

where is here?

also I think most of my friends are living by themselves atm

at least everyone that got a job

[cloud rover]

The thing is, there is no reason i would need to move out. Its cheapier live with my mom, its better for akio, and its speprated anyways

Most important part is

[formal helm]

Akio?

[cloud rover]

Its better for Akio

My Dog

my PfP

[formal helm]

Based

[runic trail]

Akio is top priority

[formal helm]

Ye, idk if I move out insta either

Maybe stay a year or so with parents

To save up for a down payment

[runic trail]

I moved out but that's mostly due to my parents living in a town with barely anything in regards to career opportunities

My hand was forced

[formal helm]

Fair

As things are rn, I won't have to move due to career

But we'll see

4 years is a lot of time.

[magic laurel]

is disorienting strike like a buff / aura can it be tracked?

[alpine wraith]

you can have WA that track it

but on the blizz UI no

[wary plover]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[magic laurel]

isit under auras / debuff?

[alpine wraith]

no it has to be a WA that tracks when you use sec tech

and makes a counter for ub procs after

LE has one

maybe other packs also have one

no idea how to do it

[sly shore]

@hazy breach @vale pine I reckon the fazed affecting all raid members has been fixed

cos looking at logs there are parries during fazed uptime

[runic trail]

[hollow spear]

Damn

[cloud rover]

No more raidbuff

for sub

[formal helm]

[runic trail]

Its fine we have speedy shroud

[runic trail]

Big raidbuff

[formal helm]

peak raid utility

[sly shore]

that's a melee bad example

let me find the other

[hollow spear]

Hell yeah, all the mooching sins can get lost

[runic trail]

Gotta go fast before pull

[formal helm]

ye dud

[vale pine]

unlucky

[formal helm]

altho I've heard that there's a ton of trash in new raid

shroud might actually be useful now

[cloud rover]

Which is gonna be skipped

[hollow spear]

I'm quite sure my raid didn't even realize that it was me providing it

[cloud rover]

Because they thought giving BoE to certain mobs instead of all mobs

would give incentive to engage with more trash

[keen dome]

Amazed it lasted this long but big rip

[sly shore]

fazed on boss

[formal helm]

are they actually still sticking to this policy?

[keen dome]

big rip

[sly shore]

so it be fixed

[hollow spear]

Well, we still can't get parried

[cloud rover]

I think they will yeah

But i hope not

[hollow spear]

Big win

[formal helm]

actual insanity

[runic trail]

Still gotta be behind for FW though

[formal helm]

whoevere even came up with that idea has to lack brain cells

like what.

[hollow spear]

We just made up another 0.5% vs other melee classes

💪

[cloud rover]

Yes putting so much trash down there, taking BoE out of them

Surprised when people start death skipping

[formal helm]

[hollow spear]

BoEs aren't even real

[keen dome]

Fixing something like that (benefical) and not making it a priority to fix.. gestures at the mess of issues is frustrating.

[cloud rover]

Certified Pikachu face moment

[hollow spear]

Shush, you might summon scath

[formal helm]

what's wrong with summonin scath

hater.

smh

[hollow spear]

We've already summoned guy earlier

[formal helm]

oh true

[hollow spear]

Can someone please start complaining about sub?

[formal helm]

was looking forward to another argument there

[hollow spear]

Then we get scath and guy at the same time

[cloud rover]

I swear to god

thats a rogue thing

[formal helm]

boss fight

[cloud rover]

like fr

[formal helm]

dw we're op next patch

[keen dome]

Realistically it's probably a different team, but lmao it's wild.

[formal helm]

( )

[hollow spear]

Tbh

It's a miracle it survived this long

[formal helm]

what? the parry thing?

[keen dome]

yeah

[formal helm]

🤷

[hollow spear]

There's probably just too few sub rogues to have warranted a swifter fix

[formal helm]

true

[sly shore]

it's probably been fixed for way longer than we expect too

[formal helm]

don't know when I've actually seen a sub rog in group content

[sly shore]

cos no one checked

[formal helm]

aside from myself

[sly shore]

👍

[keen dome]

Yeah that's a good point

[formal helm]

true

[hollow spear]

I haven't heard my warriors complaining

[formal helm]

had a moment yday in raid

[hollow spear]

But could check

[formal helm]

where I missed every ability

for 10 secs

couldn't hit the sprocket with melee

or casts

bro just kept dodging

[vale pine]

we checked last tier start

so can be long, but not that long

[sly shore]

from what I can see

from a live log

it may be ptr

[vale pine]

interessting

[hollow spear]

I wonder how many non sub players even knew about this

Actually I wonder how many sub players even knew about this

[formal helm]

my guidlies know bc I bring it up

[hollow spear]

Could have been an argument for my RL to sit our sin rogue instead of me

Goddammit

[sly shore]

yeah can't see any parries on live logs

nice ptr fix blozard

[hollow spear]

Well, maybe it doesn't end up on live. Like the nimble flurry fix that should have already been there for weeks.

[sly shore]

idk I give up expecting them to fix all these negative bugs

[formal helm]

all is a stretch

a few might be possible

[cloud rover]

Yeah we need an actual dev team

for that to happen

[sly shore]

I think they've mostly moved to either polishing midnight

or the last titan

at this point

[keen dome]

Much like in DF, I imagine it's shifted to Midnight. It was around 10.1.5 / 7 that there was a noticable shift, so I imagine the same here.

[hollow spear]

Most of our bugs don't impact gameplay too much afaik

It's what I said earlier

[keen dome]

It's just frustrating to know about them

[hollow spear]

If the numbers are there, I'm okay with shadowed finishers not working on everything

Because they would nerf us baseline if they fixed them

It's not like they'd just give us 3% more damage (number made up, pls don't shit on me) for free by fixing bugs

[carmine portal]

What place do people think Sub should have in a Dungeon comp in an ideal world? Single target focus, small cleave, massive AoE cleave

Like what should the spec excel at specifically

[keen dome]

Being handsome

[hollow spear]

Wdym should

Is this about class fantasy or about reality?

[carmine portal]

Fantasy

Or theory

MY fantasy is that Sub is a single/2target cleave megaspec

[hollow spear]

My rogue class fantasy is single target burst, that's why I play sub

To make that good in reality , we'd probably have to have some form of funnel

[keen dome]

Mine would be hyper burst / ST prio.

[tepid trellis]

Bursty, prio dmg monster

[carmine portal]

i like asking these questions in the class discords

[keen dome]

I want to do the MASSIVE burst damage every rotation, and in AoE I wanna do prio to the biggest baddest boy

[cloud rover]

Just like you

[hollow spear]

Didn't know brainless apes had the capacity to be curious

[carmine portal]

I've only played sub for a seaon this xpac and a bit in legion, rlly enjoyable but I kinda hate that our dmg profile by the end of an M+ is like.........

It looks like Outlaws

[hollow spear]

Meh

[carmine portal]

1 random passive buff bcus C L E A V E at the top

[hollow spear]

In aoe it kind of is

[keen dome]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[hollow spear]

But outlaw is more of a slow meat grinder and we have bursts and a lot of downtime

[carmine portal]

Ik about the difference in playstyle but it's opening the meters and I may aswell just have Blade Flurry doing 100% of everything

Doesn't feel satisfying

[hollow spear]

I personally don't really care how details looks and which thing does what damage. I care about how it feels.

[keen dome]

End of damage details is nice to look at but doesn't always tell the whole story

[tepid trellis]

BF like effects was a mistake

[keen dome]

Shuriken! Combo!

[hollow spear]

They kinda "devved" themselves in a corner unfortunately

There's a lot of ripping the cord to be done to get away from the nimble flurry mess

[tepid trellis]

cant even really called it "devved" cuz they didn't devolper anything they just copy pasted a previous formular to every spec in the game

making every single spec in the game the same

[hollow spear]

That's what the "" are for

[tepid trellis]

in theory

[keen dome]

Caustic is cool, imo, 'cos it operates with specific rules. It's a good way fo doing it. but Nimble is just a copy-pasted flurry that doesn't work well or fit the spec.

[tepid trellis]

it should make it easier to balance

but they dont

so

what is even the point

[carmine portal]

That's my issue I think, Nimble just makes no sense for sub

[hollow spear]

The problem is giving it to some classes and not all, apart from it being boring

[carmine portal]

Why don't we have a unique shadow poison or some shit

[tepid trellis]

thats the thing tho

almost all classes have it now

[hollow spear]

Now you have half the classes who are capped

[tepid trellis]

passive cleave

[hollow spear]

And some who are uncapped

[tepid trellis]

hardcaps just dont make any sense

in the way the game is played

[hollow spear]

Yeah

If they want us to play smaller pulls by forcing hard caps, they need to be more consequent

[tepid trellis]

hardcaps was initially to tone down the size of pulls and create niches for dmg at certain target counts for different specs

but they failed the balancing miserably and the specs that were hardcapped to 5-8 targets

still got out dps in those target ranges by fully uncapped classes

[hollow spear]

The problem with hard caps is that classes with 5 target max don't omega outperform uncapped classes at let's say 4 targets

[tepid trellis]

cuz blizzard sucks ass at balancing

[hollow spear]

If they did, they'd probably be op in raid

And uncapped classes wouldn't be able to put a foot in

At least based on their current design philosophy

If you want to call it that

[tepid trellis]

they have just shoehorned themselves into a shit show

[carmine portal]

Probably not playing sub next season but what's the tier set looking like at this point?

[tepid trellis]

really hope they try and sitdown and re-do alot of these messes they have made for themselves for next expansion

[runic trail]

Tier set good

A bit janky but good

[tepid trellis]

tier is like 35-40% dmg

[carmine portal]

For both talents?

[tepid trellis]

quite strong

DS still sucks

cuz DS

trickster good

[hollow spear]

I'm not pushing m+ so I don't feel the balancing mess as much

[carmine portal]

Yippie!!!!!! (not)

[runic trail]

We don't talk about sub DS

[tepid trellis]

trickster is the only functional sub hero talent

kinda like DS is for Assa, where FB is unplayable

[carmine portal]

depression, I rolled Sub in S1 BECAUSE of the idea of Deathstalker lol

[tepid trellis]

DS was just designed with only Assa in mind

and it shows

cuz it works well for Assa

but works terribly for sub

[hollow spear]

The fantasy of a shadowy rogue is there, but the talent tree is just ass

For sub at least

[tepid trellis]

Fixed marks for Assa, in so breaking it for sub and it has been borked for sub ever since

[carmine portal]

Which is SO funny because Deathstalkers are pmuch always Sub rogues lol

[tepid trellis]

DS works well for Assa cuz their main spender Envenom cleaves

ours dont

[carmine portal]

me, undead rogue named Haunt, have to play pirate-esque dueling hero talent

[tepid trellis]

so we are forced to cancel aura Darkest night

or shadowstrike different targets on AoE

10/10 design

you could just tell that the guy that originally designed the mark system

never in his life

had played sub before

[topaz egret]

Ds sub 4p is literally ass aids

[tepid trellis]

cant wait to update guide for it, im just gonna say "dont play it, it sucks"

[carmine portal]

💩

this emoji

thats it

thats the guide

[tepid trellis]

"if you wanna play DS follow this link"

and its just the link to the Assa guide

[runic trail]

[tepid trellis]

u went to method right? u playing with mah boi Faithy

[alpine wraith]

ds 4 set is made actually evil

as if you didnt already have to calculate how you would pop marks to not krangle sec tech

like sure first one going into dance is fine but second or third

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

also how hard is mark hitting for already we may get nerfed again in pvp

[topaz egret]

Yaboifaithy, yep I joined team orange again

[alpine wraith]

even with 2 bugs this hits quite hard now

[vale pine]

hmm, i wonder if dark brew is good after the buffs

might be db angle on ds

[keen dome]

[alpine wraith]

problem is you would go the pv cursed route

to keep 3 symbols

[keen dome]

PV, what a horrible node.

[vale pine]

yep

[tepid trellis]

the 0.2% dmg node

goes hard

[cloud rover]

TLDR

Stay Sin

dont play Sub

Got it

[tepid trellis]

play trickster sub

is the tldr

[cloud rover]

I did for the Majority of this patch actually

[vale pine]

+1

trickster bis

[wheat edge]

if my envenoms are gonna get parried from now on I might have to swap to sub myself...

[keen dome]

Trickster good

[alpine wraith]

big trickster situation

[keen dome]

Another sub! We grow! Soon we will be dozens! DOZENS!

[carmine portal]

im personally LEAVING sub to offset the new gain

I'm going to go play COMBAT

[alpine wraith]

combat was cool

the throne of thunder set will be fun

for people

[wheat edge]

(or the real solution, remove parry)

[keen dome]

impossible, we're adding a second form of parry

[shy ermine]

trickster sub is so back with this tier set

if it ends up working properly

[keen dome]

Even if it doesn't we might be back.

It would be fitting to be back with a set not working properly

[carmine portal]

"so back", did sub ever leave?

what was this tierset like

[keen dome]

Went on holiday

[shy ermine]

idk about most but i hate playing with this tier set

and sub was undertuned for a long time this tier

[carmine portal]

Glad I moved off sub this season then

[alpine wraith]

wait they changed the set

da fuq

ah no they just deleted the combat part

guess in mop classic it will work like it did before

[cloud rover]

Sinister Strike Sinister Strike, wait for energy, sinister strike Sinister Strike, wait again, sinister Strike, Eviscerate

[alpine wraith]

nah mop combat was quite diff

[cloud rover]

40% Melee dmg

[alpine wraith]

it was already quite spammy

[cloud rover]

i mean yeah with Shadowblades

[alpine wraith]

only reason you didnt spam was when you wanted to cheek red power

[cloud rover]

You had more CDR

[alpine wraith]

so you just revealed isntead of sinister

[cloud rover]

AND ANTICIPATION

[alpine wraith]

anticipation would be so good with sub now

[keen dome]

It'd be such a fun button

[wheat edge]

pre-patch breakdown at lvl 85 so no shadowblades yet

[cloud rover]

I know i played Cata

[wheat edge]

based

[cloud rover]

All 3 Contents

[wheat edge]

saw some very interesting stuff going on in the mop arms warrior discord

someone came up with Glyph of hamstring and binding it to scrollwheel since its off the GCD + stacking mastery and just proccing their mastery perma + getting rage

so instead of being like 40-50 casts per min it was suddenly a 120+ cpm spec

[short radish]

all roads lead to fury

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/checking-on-you-wellness-check-gif-15054664224597933905

[hollow spear]

https://tenor.com/view/bpk-hiding-dog-gif-7116506985607097783

[runic trail]

False alarm go back to sleep

[keen dome]

no, post doggies.

[lilac stag]

how ‘bout both

[hollow spear]

Who's that? Realz at work?

[lilac stag]

a dev after fixing positive bugs

[hollow spear]

That was kinda mean, sorry

[cloud rover]

Ok Mr Flex from Flexington City

[hollow spear]

Just send me some

[tribal blade]

i have a serious problem

what am i to do

[lilac stag]

not healthy to keep emotions bottled up. surely bug fixes and tuning will happen soon!

[hollow spear]

Give us your gold and start fresh

[lilac stag]

Send to me

[hollow spear]

I bought 2k pots, I'm broke now

[vale pine]

Lol

[tribal blade]

you all make convincing arguments

[vale pine]

That's a lot of potions

[lilac stag]

She has vet bills to pay.

[cloud rover]

Put it on another char

and give it a cool name

[rotund pawn]

anyone knows how many different amps in total will there be in next tier?

[cloud rover]

like

"prophetbank"

and make sure it is a goblin

[tribal blade]

warband bank 😉

[tribal blade]

SO CUTE

[lilac stag]

ProphetSubRogueNoReally

[tribal blade]

i swear to god i'm a sub rogue

sort of

if you factor the fact that i have spent the majority of my wow time playing sub

then ipso facto

[cloud rover]

You my sir did keys as sin

[tribal blade]

your honor my client is indeed a sub rogue

[cloud rover]

You are not a sub rogue anymore

Sub rogue needs to be OTP sub

Im also not a sub

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/you-definitely-guilty-for-sure-you-did-it-im-certain-i-know-it-was-you-gif-15442364

You’ve spent your degen arc 99.99999% as assa.

[tribal blade]

but i'm still in here 😉

won't leave sub channel

the other channels are scary

[lilac stag]

Too embarrassed to be in the catgirl channel

[tribal blade]

red names for red emotions

[hollow spear]

There's probably a lot of talk about voidussy going on there

[sage terrace]

Such a cute doggo, must send my own

[hollow spear]

Scary

[keen dome]

I can help fix that error.

[hollow spear]

How about some socialism

[tribal blade]

sorry can't trade EU peeps 😦

[hollow spear]

I'd like to socialise my losses friends

[keen dome]

Alas

[cloud rover]

Damn you got a lot of messages in general

[lilac stag]

I’m the one person in here you can trade with. Hahah

[hollow spear]

I swear this channel is half German

[cloud rover]

Thats sin

[tribal blade]

is that how many i've posted?!

[cloud rover]

yes

[keen dome]

I've gotta post more.

[tribal blade]

jesus

wait how do you check that

[hollow spear]

How many posts does he have in sub?

Is he redeemable?

[cloud rover]

[hollow spear]

What!!!

[lilac stag]

and how many are assa questions in sub?

[tribal blade]

trust i've been in this channel a long ass time haha

maining sub

[hollow spear]

Prophet

[cloud rover]

Thats Prophet sub messages

So he did 2K messages outside of it

so another lie

From our so called

"prophet"

[tribal blade]

😦

[keen dome]

I must post MORE

[tribal blade]

i'm a bit of a yapper

[cloud rover]

Mine

[hollow spear]

Finally the mole is being revealed for what he is

[cloud rover]

[tribal blade]

SHEEEEESH

[hollow spear]

Aren't you posting in outlaw too, Tiramil?

[cloud rover]

Try to find out

who this is

[tribal blade]

lashga

[cloud rover]

i post everywhere

[runic trail]

Zac

[hollow spear]

Zac

[cloud rover]

https://tenor.com/view/rihanna-queen-crown-working-it-goals-gif-19093123

[tribal blade]

but yeah probably zac lol

[hollow spear]

Adhd poster deluxe

[cloud rover]

Yeah 477K messages is zac

[tribal blade]

i could

finlate

inflate

[hollow spear]

Can't fit more than three words in one message

[tribal blade]

my

post

count

this

way

[hollow spear]

Cuh

[cloud rover]

Actual zoomer brain

[hollow spear]

I bet half of zeross' messages are "xddd"

[runic trail]

My post count probably ain't too high I only started posting in this discord like, 7 months ago

[tribal blade]

sometimes i check out all 3 channels at once

[hollow spear]

A man of culture

[cloud rover]

[tribal blade]

and zeroess just spamming memes and xdd

[runic trail]

Every time I check outlaw its zac and zeross arguing

Every time

[tribal blade]

they love each other

they like to pretend they don't, but they're gay for each other

[cloud rover]

#outlaw message

[tribal blade]

oh no what happened

[formal helm]

Idk how much for me
Phone says 1k+

But don't think it's counting properly

[tribal blade]

i still remember getting told off by push in here during legion

back when i was much stupider

and more egotistical

[formal helm]

Pog

Not too much

[runic trail]

Damn, I'm behind

Need to catch up

[formal helm]

Eh, think I've been here since late bfa / sl

So not really behind

[cloud rover]

Im posting since DF

[formal helm]

I remember hacha cookin some mastery build on hivemind

[runic trail]

Posting since 7 months ago when I got dragged kicking and screaming into mythic raiding

[formal helm]

@alpine wraith was it full mastery cor?

[runic trail]

Just grabbed me by the ankles and went 'IT'S TIME TO PROG'

[tribal blade]

bfa the time i unsubbed because they nuked sub

[formal helm]

Ye my guild explicitely said we won't hc mythic raid

Sure if everyone's around we'll do mythic

[runic trail]

I was a social and they went 'hey could you fill in for a bit'

[alpine wraith]

it was some masterful and honed minds

[runic trail]

7 months later

[formal helm]

But it's not like we're actively pushing it

[alpine wraith]

but you could have gone way more corruted

i was quite safe

[cloud rover]

We dont talk about the Zul Incident

[runic trail]

I got fucking tricked

[formal helm]

Tf was honed mind

I forgot

[keen dome]

Zul.....

[formal helm]

Eh, it only eats up as much of your life as you let it kinda

[lilac stag]

reprog mugz/gally eats up many years of the lifeline

[runic trail]

Pls

[formal helm]

As long as it's fun scath!

[lilac stag]

[cloud rover]

You knwo wahts worse

Wiping on Lockenstock

Because people dont respect the mechanics

[lilac stag]

that’s next week

We spent 3 hours on mugz and then 1 hour on gally.

[cloud rover]

OOf

We (thank god) recleared in 1 night since first kill

[lilac stag]

Mad a margarita after mugz. Swapped to assa after 15 wipes on gally. Then we killed it. Clearly sub was the problem.

[runic trail]

We spent 3 hours on mugzee reclear and 2 of the raiders quit

[lilac stag]

Our bench was not prepared unfortunately.

maybe next week better

[cloud rover]

Dont worry

typical bench behavior

Probably the reason why they landed on bench in the first place

[tepid trellis]

shit like that should be grounds for kicking ong

[lilac stag]

teetering on trying to get everyone CE / are we just carrying

the margarita made everything ok

[carmine portal]

Does any1 have a nice Shadow Blades buff tracker of some kind? 🙂

[lilac stag]

won’t watch a kill video. Will watch 14 videos on tier and dps lists.

[keen dome]

How else will they know the best class to floor tank on

[cloud rover]

So

fucking

real

[runic trail]

Low ranked guilds and chasing the meta when it's pointless

A tale as old as time

[cloud rover]

ITs true

its damn true

[runic trail]

S3 raid roster sheet has several people going 'I'll pick what's meta'

[lilac stag]

we’ve got some players that can multi class / role very well. They’ve also not the ones watching this shit. lol

[runic trail]

And I die inside

[north schooner]

aint no way they are already making tier lists

[lilac stag]

That’s actually the realization that you’re trapped on rogue

[runic trail]

Nah I've known this for a while, I can't play anything else

One trick pony

[lilac stag]

They are. Log spreadsheet already going around.

[carmine portal]

OTPing is usually the choice to stay with one thing though, you just need to put time into another class/spec to get better at it.

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/get-off-my-lawn-old-lady-sprinkler-grumpy-angry-gif-19033636

[runic trail]

I try other classes and it doesn't feel right or I just do terribly on them

And go back to rogue

[carmine portal]

A common thing but not sure that means you CAN'T play other classes, I think you just don't want to

[tribal blade]

you can definitely play other stuff, you just need time on it to be comfortable

[lilac stag]

Its called being old and not having time to retrain 12+ years of class knowledge because you have a life outside of wow

muscle memory runs deep

[carmine portal]

That's the bit that's exciting to me tho, I have a life outside of wow but I have never played more classes/specs than I do now.

(Hpriest, FDK, Brew and Sub)

[tepid trellis]

ive never played less xD

[lilac stag]

This is the way

[tepid trellis]

i used to play like 6-7 characters

now im playing 2

cuz thats the requirement of me

if not id just be playing 1

[lilac stag]

Not the flex you think it is in here.

but I’m glad you’re having fun.

[carmine portal]

Bearing in mind I'm not talking about having all those at 680ilvl, I have 2 660's and 2 650s

[carmine portal]

wasn't a flex at all

[runic trail]

Tbf I also set high expectations for myself and if an alt doesn't meet those expectations I stop playing them

[carmine portal]

Ah, thats the issue then

[runic trail]

I hate feeling like dead weight

[tepid trellis]

i used to full clear mythic on all of them

or most

[lilac stag]

Don’t worry. Realz will fix rogue soonTM

[tepid trellis]

i played rogue, dh, monk, hunter, warr, sp, shaman, dk

[graceful osprey]

Buff SecTech by 500% and call it a day

[carmine portal]

every auto attack is max Combo Point SecTech

[graceful osprey]

Blizzard, make this person the rogue dev now

[carmine portal]

☎️

im waiting for the call rn

any day now

[dry plank]

I’m on this road have shaman and hunt )))

[alpine wraith]

im also free from the hell of multicalssing

played druid priest warrior monk and rogue

and sometimes mage but not much

[hazy breach]

Im still forced to have atleast one alt, but it just got boosted through the later bosses so i could buy stuff with dinars

Eleemao cat stonks 📈

[tribal blade]

just started working on my arms warr for splits next tier

my guild wants our splits alts to be more geared this time round

boooo

[alpine wraith]

we are doing mirrors

except some people that do have alts

[hazy breach]

I'd recommend doing an 11 delve with a scrambler every week

(getting boosted if you must)

[alpine wraith]

yea it is like 70 gilded

[tribal blade]

got one done last week 😉

[hazy breach]

Its 55 ye

[tribal blade]

yeah need to do another this week

[hazy breach]

10+30+15

[tribal blade]

bro i got like 2-3 hero track belts the few days i started playing my warr again

seriously

it's like the game knows

[alpine wraith]

if it is empowered by the machine guys it gives even more

overcharged is it

that way you also get the weekly belt thingy done

maybe you already counted it there tho

[hazy breach]

I only got 40+a quest for a key to get 15 more

But i also died so maybe that reduces the rewards? Idk

Something pulled the entire delve through the floor

[alpine wraith]

no idea if dying affects it as long as you dont deplete you dont lose the 7 from the 3 bountiful thingies

[trail furnace]

Is sub rogue rotation changing in S3? Aside from different trinkets and stuff, generally it stays the same I would imagine

[swift tinsel]

Dying shouldn’t affect the number of crests you get

[tribal blade]

we might have some rotational changes, depends on how stuff shapes up

we might be casting storm after 1st cast of coup in cds to avoid pressing strike

since every UB proc is now potentially x2 procs

which makes wasting UB procs much worse

[steel zinc]

That would be cooked

And then make improved storm also played on pure st not sf

[tribal blade]

iirc it was something like a +0.7% increase

[steel zinc]

Except like 3 outlier specs all seems fine ngl

[tribal blade]

i'm glad they actually tuned rogue

but still hoping they ACTUALLY START FIXING OUR CLASS

rogue is in desperate need of more upkeep

[swift tinsel]

Pretty sure I threw imp storm in all my sub builds bc sf stinky

[tribal blade]

i think the cook for casting storm after 1st coup was 0.7% before the tuning

so with increased chance for UB to double proc prob means it's even better now

[steel zinc]

But with tier we are casting b2b coup anyways

So wdym exactly when

[tribal blade]

yeah between 1st and 2nd coup

no guarantee you get a shadowcraft refund there

[steel zinc]

Oh OK I get it

[trail furnace]

Ye I seen that, kinda feels bad what it is what it is

[lilac stag]

You already do this for the better defensive

[tribal blade]

wouldn't be sub rotation without doing weird min maxes

[hazy breach]

A bit janky but what can you do, thats just how the cookie crumbles

[tribal blade]

imagine if they let escalating stack beyond 4

[lilac stag]

They’ll post it as 6 and instead it’ll be 2

[hazy breach]

I wouldnt like it to stack above 4 really, i just think we should be able to stack it while the 4p is active instead

[tribal blade]

MMMM good point

i like that

[hazy breach]

But it is what it is

[trail furnace]

Wouldn’t casting storm in between coups also increase danse for 6% more dmg on second coup?

[tribal blade]

yeah you'd get an additional danse stack

[hazy breach]

I dont think sub should even be about small minmaxes like that, i think the complexity should be loaded into the timings of our cds, not randomly pressing different builders in our burst

Ye you'd get a danse stack but its mostly to not waste unseen blade

[lilac stag]

We’re shuriken tossers here. Down with storm.

[tribal blade]

double proccing UB is halfway to a coup

which is a lot

[wheat edge]

me when I try to look at sub and figure out where to keybind shadowstrike/backstab cause I would like to have them on the same button but also 0,6% or whatever it is for pressing backstab as first builder is also something I wanna do

[hazy breach]

Yes backstab should turn into shadowstrike 100%

But its only 3 years or so since thats been suggested, we cant expect them to work that fast

[trail furnace]

I like them separate for danse, i backstab once during the burst windows for it

[wheat edge]

the one time I was hitting a dummy for a while after putting them on different binds I thought server was lagging, but in reality I was hitting strike outside of dance

[tepid trellis]

stabbing in dance is my 13th reason

[lilac stag]

Which is dumb gameplay loop

[tribal blade]

pressing backstab in dance feels horrible

[trail furnace]

I like it 🤪

[tribal blade]

you get access to a way stronger builder when you go into dance and you need to hit the wet noodle button

bleh

[lilac stag]

purple crayons taste good

[wheat edge]

good to know I was not alone, ping me when they change it and I will swap to sub

[lilac stag]

Delete Danse. Juice Goremaw.

[trail furnace]

If they got rid of backstab idk what I would do with my extra keybind

Macro to BM my tank in m+ maybe

[wheat edge]

when ER and SnD got removed I replaced the binds with a 2nd shiv and a 2nd feint bind

[lilac stag]

We still use SnD

[trail furnace]

Speak for yourself 😎

[wheat edge]

wait does sub still press that button?

[lilac stag]

missing out on CDR but go on

[hazy breach]

Nah we dont really

[lilac stag]

Gets used more than shuriken toss. Until s3

[hazy breach]

Its an insanely niche irrelevant minmax thing that if you are outside of combat waiting for RP or running in a dungeon with supercharger up you'd get slightly more cdr pressing SnD than BP to spend your remaining points as it counts the +3 for cdr but doesnt consume it

[trail furnace]

I should replace my backstab ketbind with “auto-attack” that way i have a button I can press that will actually work outside of dance windows when i have 8 energy 🤝

[hazy breach]

But like, you shouldnt end a pack with supercharger up anyway so its

[void ocean]

gotta say this pin confuses the shit outta me

[lilac stag]

Which part?

[void ocean]

so blue post claims one thing but we actually got another thing which is not that good and its bugged

[hazy breach]

Its still a buff

Just not nearly as much as it should be

Because its bugged

But mostly just the tooltip being completely wrong

[void ocean]

so we hopium that they fix that oor?

[hazy breach]

Theyll probably end up nerfing the tier either way

It was insanely strong before this buff

[void ocean]

ive heard this before

😄

was it 11.1

[hazy breach]

Yes

Not quite 40% this time though

[void ocean]

id be prio for tokens thats for sure

[hollow spear]

tier set balance is still whack rn

[hazy breach]

Im not quite sure how the big the buffs even are because something got bricked so they couldnt automatically update simc with the new changes

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/friends-serial-joey-joey-tribbiani-wack-gif-9911660054446765503

[hazy breach]

It has to be manually changed and not sure when that'll be coming in

Solo over in #outlaw is much smarter than me and got it to work locally on his machine to get a rough number

[hollow spear]

not going to step in there, people are mad

[void ocean]

bro never say an outlaw player is smarter

[hollow spear]

he wasn't smart enough to not play outlaw

[void ocean]

there u go

thats the spirit

[lilac stag]

Also not smart enough to stay away after leaving.

[hollow spear]

not up to date on that lore

[lilac stag]

He took a long break from RH

outlaw chan be wild

[void ocean]

lol

read that as outlaw-chan

[hazy breach]

Nah Solo is smart for sure, but youre right that there are some other individuals which frequent that channel where the first adjective that comes to mind would not be smart

[swift tinsel]

I’m convinced solo is an actual wizard

[runic trail]

Outlaw channel scares me

[swift tinsel]

It be like that for sure

[runic trail]

Unless I find out there's a zac zeross argument going on and then I tune in

[swift tinsel]

This channel is normally extremely tame compared to most of the others I’ve been in so it also seems like a bigger disparity

Lol those are usually pretty entertaining

Esp once OSRS comes up

[runic trail]

Sin is mostly off topic, outlaw is chaos, sub is chill

[void ocean]

sub channel is like 5 boomers on fishing

occasionally someone says smth and very soon everyone agrees

[lilac stag]

because there is almost no one in here. This channel is worse than outlaw when the spec is broken OP

[swift tinsel]

I agree with this

[runic trail]

We're in the cosy times

[lilac stag]

outlaw, like their dps, is just consistent with their special

[keen dome]

34c is too hot, man. Too hot.

[void ocean]

true

[runic trail]

Its horrendous, I gotta go to the gym later as well. It has no air conditioning

[swift tinsel]

I’m an ass man personally

[lilac stag]

Wild Wild West when solo was gone

[swift tinsel]

Oh wait you mean Celsius

[void ocean]

how many bananas would that be in F

[sacred yarrow]

5, easily

[tribal blade]

yeah it can get pretty bad in here when sub is a meta spec

[void ocean]

so never

[tribal blade]

heehee

we were kinda meta for 5 seconds at the start of this tier

[lilac stag]

we still likely have the least number of slow mode moderation of the spec channels

[tribal blade]

and then the last time we were actually meta was DF S3

[nova notch]

Hello

[tribal blade]

but just for raid

[void ocean]

oof several ppl r typing

[swift tinsel]

Last ptr cycle when casual was streaming perma-stack damage

[void ocean]

here we go

[graceful osprey]

We only want one thing….dominate the dps meters

[swift tinsel]

Nah lemme be cozy at the top of the middle of the pack

[nova notch]

S3 predictions yet guys?

[tribal blade]

yeah that caused a lot of people to think sub was out of this world broken

[void ocean]

it will happen.

[swift tinsel]

Big blaster burst and then chill time so not always on top

Is what I want

[lilac stag]

Plenty of tier list on the YouTubes

[swift tinsel]

And when an amp phase or something comes up we ball

[lilac stag]

They have the answer

[swift tinsel]

The dream

[nova notch]

I only saw Pettkoo

😭😭

[sacred yarrow]

back in df moroes commands were non stop, it was actually pretty refreshing to see so many people coming by to get information and not just repeat the same question over and over.
"is there a guide to sub dps on youtube/wowhead/excelsheet"

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/who-dat-snoop-gif-15116696

[swift tinsel]

Need to make a tier list of tier list makers

[tribal blade]

https://youtube.com/shorts/-nSyF5Ixx9g?si=RIb44umOeHokxVpH shindigg posted this after the latest tuning

[swift tinsel]

Obv Izen is S tier

For Shit

[tribal blade]

so at least our burst is on point atm

[lilac stag]

[hazy breach]

Ye bro with that exquisite PTR clickbait

[lilac stag]

I was not expecting a response to the tier list videos.

[merry agate]

So we 95% on point 🤔 😅

[void ocean]

didnt he see our resolution to delete all ptr clients?

[swift tinsel]

Only 10mil opener Kekw

[tribal blade]

damn

[graceful osprey]

Or, if we could have old backstab attack sound, that would be great. I’m not asking for much

[lilac stag]

every damn patch. we broken? yes, yes we are. Just not the way you were hoping for.

[void ocean]

we will be nerfed to tbc dps

[lilac stag]

looks at two sub rogues in Towlie’s mythic vids not showing up on the meters

[graceful osprey]

How I felt as a rogue in Classic tbc
“I’m helping”

[void ocean]

sub doing the highest burst nad laughing while doing it, thats unacceptable

[graceful osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/ralph-wiggum-simpsons-hi-bye-gif-16529059407582436389

[void ocean]

we cant be happy, thats against blizz EULA

[lilac stag]

Do you enjoy the spec? Play it. If you want meta, find a different class imo.

[void ocean]

you know what, I'll play it even more now

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/headbang-car-waynes-world-party-time-gif-14951887

[hollow spear]

if balance between rogue specs stays as is

we might have a s2 revival

an influx of people parroting all the same questions to then leave when they don't get how sub works

and then another wave of departures when we get nerfed 😄

[runic trail]

Good thing I swapped over early

[lilac stag]

do you remember the start of season 2 as sub? Yes? Just skip that and go right to assa.

[runic trail]

Got to ask my dumb questions without the crowd

[lilac stag]

idk we’re actually pretty good in here about answering actual gameplay questions.

The sarcasm comes out for dumb shit

and that gets lost in text and feelings are hurt

[runic trail]

I'm hoping my questions weren't too dumb at least

[void ocean]

they were.

[runic trail]

Fair

[void ocean]

jk, there arent any stupid questions, just stupid answers

[runic trail]

Challenge accepted

[void ocean]

what was that about when one guy got pissed at u a few weeks ago threatening to block u 😄

[runic trail]

I'm gonna cook up a sub haste build and ask if its viable

[void ocean]

valid question

u have to know

[runic trail]

Gloomblades back on the menu

And goremaw

[void ocean]

ds sub is back 😄

that draws the biggest No here 😄

[hollow spear]

if you want to make DS sub work, you will get shit on

rightfully so

[tribal blade]

who said DS sub

who wants to be bullied

[runic trail]

Colo, fight him

[void ocean]

but ds is more in correlation with spec lore

[tribal blade]

anger

[void ocean]

w r fckin stalkers, not clowns

[tribal blade]

outrage

[void ocean]

fck trickster

[runic trail]

Speak for yourself

[swift tinsel]

spent a couple hours on ptr with it and I still hate it

it could be good

[runic trail]

My avatar is a bear dressed as a clown, I was meant to be a clown

[swift tinsel]

if they fix the stupid shit

[tribal blade]

it's so funny that what makes DS so terrible for sub is what the trickster set is doing even better now

[swift tinsel]

DN is just a giant roadblock in the gameplay

[tribal blade]

giving us MORE cdr

[swift tinsel]

yeah its just gapping deathstalker and I'm fine with that lol

[tribal blade]

hopefully they don't decide to mega buff it again

[hollow spear]

I am still afraid of that

[swift tinsel]

boycott

[tribal blade]

although i'm sure the numbers they would need to actually buff DS to make it viable would be stupid

[median nacelle]

ill still play trickster ngl

[swift tinsel]

even if its better

mark babysitting sucks so hard with new set

esp with shadowcraft

[runic trail]

Me on sprocket last tier. Fatebound simmed better, but fuck that

[hollow spear]

trickster would have to be omega dumpster for me to consider switching

[swift tinsel]

it creates so many conflicts in priority

[fallow nimbus]

It's like your engine is leaking oil but instead of fixing it they just keep pouring oil in

[hollow spear]

actually, if they made DS sub the go to

you might catch me in the other channels

[swift tinsel]

they would have to literally break trickster for me to switch

and if they did that I'm not playing rogue either lol

[hollow spear]

I am playing the purplest of specs

if that happens

and will get benched for that 😄

[slate marlin]

its not the numbers for it to be viable, its how op it would have to be for sub players to swap

[swift tinsel]

I'd probs go back to dk

[median nacelle]

ya dh full send if that happens

[swift tinsel]

we already have 2 havocs so I'd be benched too lol

[lilac stag]

Spicey 🌶️

[vale pine]

unlikely

trickster just has a better synergy

[hollow spear]

yeah, that was a hypothetical

don't think it will happen

ig that buff was more to not make it completely crap numerically

on paper, DS wasnt much behind trickster this season

[alpine wraith]

dont worry when deathstalker's mark hits for like 3 mil because of all the buffs it gets

DS will be looked at

to get nerfed in pvp

maybe they buff fatal intent by 5000%

[swift tinsel]

I bet I can get Fatal Intent to crit for 3mil

[alpine wraith]

so it does 5% of dmg

instead of 0.1

[steel zinc]

You can do a 10 mill opener even on live idk

[swift tinsel]

yeah I'm doing more without any buffs on ptr atm

I do like seeing big yellow bar on opener though

proud papa moment

[alpine wraith]

now imagine on dungeons when you can fully stack prism

[hollow spear]

I guess we need skyfury and lust to consistently get the 2nd sectec into first dance (if specced into tfd)

Or am I just unlucky on the dummy

[alpine wraith]

with new set idk

but it was really close now

so should be more doable

[hollow spear]

I know it's doable now

Ryldd did it on Sprocket

[alpine wraith]

yea i have done it sometimes

but it is like very tight with extra cdr should happen a bit more

you also get 1 DM more now that we storm in between coups

[hollow spear]

he had like 2 seconds left when he pressed it

[alpine wraith]

damn that is a highroll

[hollow spear]

kinda pepega if you have less left

[alpine wraith]

yea you cant if you have less

[graceful osprey]

Just need a death stalker rework….it just doesn’t feel…deathstalkerish

[carmine portal]

I like the idea of "a mark is applied to someone and that becomes your focus target for the duration" but the issue is it's just badly tuned? designed? idk

[graceful osprey]

I think it’s okay, it just feels weird for aoe or cleave. I imagine deathstalker to look kinda like Kyvesa and then trickster to feel and look like assassins creed kinda. For me, I’d rather less buffs/debuffs to keep track of. I like the idea of evis changing to coup. Maybe rogues could have more of that. Ability changing to an empowered or different version.

[runic trail]

Desthstalker hero tree, doesn't give you death from above

DEATH IS IN THE NAME, CMON

Imagine if darkest night let you death from above at full cp instead of evis. (This would probably be terrible but let me cook)

[steel zinc]

no but its based on that spell

you didnt play obvs beta

[warm marlin]

meh it still does a lot of damage so long as you dance before the clones hit

in my experience it goes from like 11M to 9M

from the dm stack loss

[warm marlin]

also i dont think the tier actually makes a difference for getting it in the first dance

technically you only get 5s more cdr from the extra coup which doesnt hit any gcd breakpoints

i cant really do it on dummies on ptr with no buffs unless you just omega roll and proc coup twice before it

[hazy breach]

I love how theres like 4 weeks left and trinket tuning is still completely whack

[alpine wraith]

as always

one trinket giving 17k crit

other 8k

hmmm

[hazy breach]

Even assuming that one gets nuked

[alpine wraith]

i mean to be fair you do need to hit lots of targets to get full value

but you can cheat that one

[hazy breach]

I dont think im going to be able to convince my raid i need both the 2 min trinket and the prism one based on fight timers

[alpine wraith]

i though the execute one would do more damage to be honest

yea i also want forge and prism likely

[spice matrix]

The meat is bloody there’s still some time to cook

[hazy breach]

You dont want both at the same time

[alpine wraith]

for diff things

[hazy breach]

But like, if the fight is below 4-5 mins prism stinks

[alpine wraith]

i guess it might be prism+antenna on some and forge + something else

or lilly

[hazy breach]

And if the fight is like 2:30 or 4:30 the 2 min one absolutely stomps, being significantly ahead of current stone idol

(yes by pretending we are a 2 min spec)

[alpine wraith]

you can kinda make it work

[sinful zephyr]

What would be m+ only trinket choices?

[warm marlin]

maghar stonks up

[hazy breach]

The same

[alpine wraith]

for m+ it would be kinda sameish yea

[hazy breach]

Or you mean only from m+?