when we’re bottom 1/3 of all dps with 3 specs exiting the tier. gl
#subtlety
swift tinsel
current trickster tier set 2nd coup is implemented in a way where you cannot accrue Escalating Blade stacks for 5 seconds, or until you spend the 'free 2nd Coup' buff so the ask is to allow Escalating Blade to stack to 6-8 while still only consuming 4 stacks to alleviate it
or change the way the 4pc is handled so that it doesn't eat EB stacks and lose casts of Coup over the course of a fight/dungeon
bc the 2nd Coup buff is literally just 4 EB stacks with a duration
pale spoke
ahh i see. apologies- i was unaware. for the record, i haven’t been vocal about lack of changes on forums— just moreso a quick perspective just now here
i can understand that being bad
thank you
keen dome
Sub has a load of dead or annoying nodes and could use refineemnt. The core is solid, imo. We just need polish and some shifting. Also the tier stuff
Also more purple
lilac stag
odd you’re vocal on one area of communication but accepting in another.
warm depot
its okay im a horse trainer now first and foremost
haru urarar will win the URA FINALE FINALS
keen dome
its okay im a horse trainer now first and foremost
hell yeah
I won with the spanish horse today, that felt good.
bleak night
pale spoke
odd you’re vocal on one area of communication but accepting in another.
apologies.
north schooner
👍 🏄 🏄♀️
lilac stag
apologies.
No apologies. It’s ok to be angry here. Just an observation.
hollow spear
I also want our spec to move from strong finishers to strong gloomblades.
bleak night
real
warm depot
😟
keen dome
I want gloomblade baseline but not for the reason everybody else does.
bleak night
why have big sectecs when you can press gloomblade
pale spoke
oh not anger, just discussion. i’d like to align better with what’s needed so i can help be an advocate
bleak night
I want gloomblade baseline but not for the reason everybody else does.
gloomblade more thematic than backstab
keen dome
more purple
bleak night
thats why it should be baseline
lilac stag
Finishing the 10.1.5 rework would be a start
warm depot
what if sub rogue all became trainers and we got to train our horses (other raiders) to do better with each pull
my tank will be gold ship
hollow spear
That's the problem
swift tinsel
its the same dude asking for less RTB rng bc its breaking the spec
hollow spear
Our raiders get worse over time
swift tinsel
while having also played zero content
warm depot
theyre not sparking right and your support cards suck
north schooner
what if sub rogue all became trainers and we got to train our horses (other raid...
warm depot
we must invest in support cards
i must uncap my fine motion now for my tanks to have fine motion
keen dome
what if sub rogue all became trainers and we got to train our horses (other raid...
i tried that, it's called pug raid leading
hollow spear
while having also played zero content
His input is as valuable as yours. Picture that 
keen dome
it's basically as random as horses
keen dome
people can't push heroism properly
warm marlin
oh not anger, just discussion. i’d like to align better with what’s needed so i ...
shameless shill for my feedback post from a while ago
#subtlety message
keen dome
you want them to have even more responbility
warm depot
itll be a random proc
swift tinsel
His input is as valuable as yours. Picture that <:HOLY:1250893440183570533>
I'm unironically terrified his input will make its way into the game
keen dome
shameless shill for my feedback post from a while ago
https://discord.com/channe...
it's a very good post
warm depot
my arcane mage eyes will flash the screen and she'll yell
THE VIEW FROM THE LEAD IS MINE
as she blasts towards the sunset
and we kill
all thanks to my training
its so easy folks
keen dome
haha
warm depot
ive become horse pilled as quickly as ive become anti sub pilled
bleak night
is this a fetish thing
keen dome
nah
warm depot
no
keen dome
it's a fun gacha that's basically a roguelike princess maker for horse racing
except the horses are women
warm depot
it rules
keen dome
it's legitimately a fun game
warm depot
no its about the horses idgaf that theyre girls
bleak night
its ok i dont judge
warm depot
nothing is more satisfying seeing number go up and you getting first
its like wow
but with horses
keen dome
number go up, good brain juices
warm depot
shameless shill for my feedback post from a while ago
https://discord.com/channe...
good post
bleak night
lilac stag
nothing is more satisfying seeing number go up and you getting first
Just split the horse into 4 hits and it’s more satisfying. -Blizzard
hollow spear
I am intrigued by the game's concept, but that manga/anime girl stuff repels me
pale spoke
shameless shill for my feedback post from a while ago
https://discord.com/channe...
great read and brought me up to speed. can see these issues clear as day where i haven’t before. will come back to reference it. thank you for writing and sharing it 💙
warm marlin
Some of those issues are a bit controversial/reflect my own opinions (mainly the coup fazed thing). If you removed the requirement for fazed from coup it would likely lead to pooling being a bit easier than previously, which some people do not like
I know guy doesn't want escalating blade to stack higher to 8 since you might just end up holding 2 coups and still overcapping in the end
swift tinsel
and I see that as not a problem bc its a tradeoff you're willingly making
partially why I've suggested 6 as the cap
so you can't bank two coups' worth of stacks
hollow spear
yeah I like 6
swift tinsel
unless you get omega degen and try to game it
pale spoke
part of me wonders about energy management too. with double coup & needing to spend- assuming things stay as is, would there be a world where thistle tea is a better trade off than cold blood?
warm marlin
even then you probably end up just pooling to 6 escalating stacks
hollow spear
with 8 you'd probably make it a bit too strong even
warm marlin
because then you're guaranteeing 2 coups before your cb sectec
pale spoke
like does the double coup over a fight period make up the dmg difference if energy management is better
swift tinsel
crit pilled
warm depot
I am intrigued by the game's concept, but that manga/anime girl stuff repels me
it genuinely is a fun game but if the aesthetics throw you off i wouldnt recommend it because its a big part of the game unfortunately for some
hazy breach
Sectech just doesnt do as much in aoe, since its softcapped at 5 when all our other spells are 8
Relative to ST
lilac stag
they’ll fix Fatebound in 3 weeks
bleak night
Surely
warm depot
just delete rogues from the game
swift tinsel
no leave sub
swift tinsel
nah that's par for the course for some specs
haughty mural
last tier there were sets also kind of as strong as ours
vale pine
hmm, so they have a month to fix the balance druid tier set
swift tinsel
Imma get 2 dagger drops from 2nd boss day one
bleak night
as long as you dont kill any bosses with them
haughty mural
oh second boss it is this time ? 
lilac stag
no crafting dagger week 1
Crafting 1H sword week 1. Duh. 
haughty mural
(did not have a single dagger in vault this season)
haughty mural
Crafting 1H sword week 1. Duh. <:peophammer:590832416138985472>
nah you cant play outlaw - nice bait tho 
swift tinsel
yeah loomithar drops vers/mastery dagger
haughty mural
Rad
tacit pond
how is sub doing on the ptr so far
lilac stag
how is sub doing on the ptr so far
Exact same way it be on live.
bleak night
a void lord summoned into our plane
keen dome
i mean he is a void lord
We've killed Titans (Argus) so why not.
bleak night
which we know makes them significantly weaker
odds are we beat him and he either just gets sucked back into the void or xalatath gobbles him up
keen dome
We already fucked him up once. It's time for round 2
keen dome
odds are we beat him and he either just gets sucked back into the void or xalata...
10 gold on her getting the dark heart back and sucking him up
bleak night
yeah im very sure she absorbs his power in some way or another
probably using the dark heart
then that leads into the events of midnight
hollow spear
sounds cursed
left ledge
summer lynx
Man I just wish we'd get any changes lol.
My cope is that they are saving it for midnight, but imma be real. I feel like we wont get shit then either lol.
bleak night
wdym we did get changes
better poison selection for one button rotation
what more could you want
keen dome
Poison toggle....
summer lynx
lol so true
lilac stag
Poison toggle....
I mean technically it’s closer if OBR is applying it.
haughty mural
just pray our set goes untouched
hollow spear
They could do what Haptic and Ryldd are asking for
Then I'd vote for some set touching
swift tinsel
I'll be very surprised if we see any changes that aren't number tuning
hollow spear
Me too
runic trail
Unfortunately, same.
haughty mural
what where those again ?
hollow spear
They'll buff the living hell out of deathstalker so we're forced to play that
swift tinsel
that tier set is just a dumpster fire in cooldowns sometimes
swift tinsel
get a stray ShT refund at the wrong time? bricked
patent lichen
There's 5 weeks to buff/ bug fix us. Surely they have time 
fathom adder
@hollow spear what are they asking for?
hollow spear
They're asking for more escalating blade stacks (like 6 or 8), so we don't waste as many
fathom adder
sounds good
swift tinsel
that plus change the way the buff works
achieves a similar goal
but would be healthier for the baseline hero tree to add stacks
granted like Ryldd said it could potentially lead to stack banking
which I think is fine if you choose to play that way
and unless its omega powerful to do in all cases it's a choice which we don't get many of
hollow spear
Yeah I'd be fine with that
void ocean
so whats the current state of sub on ptr, we bugged oor...
trying to remember if someone said smth about set not working
swift tinsel
nah set works as designed
no weird interactions with double ub proc that we've found yet
was bugged previously where you couldn't spend 2nd coup but that was fixed by week 2
void ocean
u sayin theres a chance we get to be properly tuned before the season starts?
keen dome
are you fucking kidding, they add Darkfuse to rep bonus
this is why being lazy is the key to success in WoW 🫡
merry agate
u sayin theres a chance we get to be properly tuned before the season starts?
What a time to be alive 
swift tinsel
u sayin theres a chance we get to be properly tuned before the season starts?
that or they do nothing for 4-5 weeks
equally possible
keen dome
Really, anything could happen
swift tinsel
this is why being lazy is the key to success in WoW 🫡
honestly it wasn't even that bad. Just watched stuff on the other monitor and threw glaives around to gather stuff
swift tinsel
or pressed holy shock and consecrate lol
keen dome
I'll slam it out during it too
swift tinsel
beware of monks bc there's a bunch of mongo-brained ones that love spinning crane kicking everything as its running to the amp circles and killing them so no bonus drops
same with boomkins that kill everything with dots and starfall
swift tinsel
Dh probably goated bc super mobile and they melt everything when its stacked
keen dome
I can melt everything when it's stacked (every 45 seconds (If it's during cooldowns (If it's able to live for 1.3 seconds)))
swift tinsel
lmao I did see one sub rogue pop into one of the groups I was in but it was a pvp hero
pliant topaz
https://tenor.com/view/jojo-dio-gif-20157802
swift tinsel
ended up dropping every toy on the planet into the amp area so looting was annoying
keen dome
haha
void ocean
guys wtf 😄
swift tinsel
void ocean
pliant topaz
pliant topaz
I miss scana
keen dome
keen dome
https://tenor.com/view/sinner-the-chum-slum-god-bird-gif-3968603188773794342
The grand journey
bleak night
void ocean
https://tenor.com/view/leonardo-di-caprio-god-blood-diamond-danny-archer-belief-...
TIA...
swift tinsel
keen dome
swift tinsel
pliant topaz
aight we stop before whispyr comes and yells at me again
swift tinsel
I wish I had the gif someone made of Link throwing him into the ocean
actually I might be able to get it
it might have been scana that made it iirc lol
or was it schmeeps
pliant topaz
sounds more like shmeeps
swift tinsel
ye I think you're right
spice matrix
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
haughty mural
that plus change the way the buff works
Wouldn’t that be enough ?
So they won’t have to worry about stack banking shenanigans
swift tinsel
As a band-aid solution to the problem tier creates, yeah
bleak night
i think bandaids are the best we can hope for
lilac stag
maybe they don’t see it as a problem
swift tinsel
^thats my thought
bleak night
it would track with them not wanting us to track stuff
swift tinsel
its just a 'quirk of the set' or whatever
bc realistically we do waste stacks with thousand cuts resets as-is its just not as in your face
lilac stag
reminder. certain devs like friction
swift tinsel
but the 4pc blocking stack gen is cheeks
lilac stag
and my expectations are just low for any quality development at this point
lilac stag
all you can do
void ocean
Doomtime
lilac stag
Nah. Just reality checks.
bleak night
friction is fun
swift tinsel
sub will be fine/good in raid, m+ isn't our show to steal
void ocean
(never had ww)
bleak night
feral not being able to brez in cat form and having to waste multiple globals to do it is fun
acceptable friction
lilac stag
Wheres my ww
Check your camp site
hollow spear
The amount of reality checking you're doing certainly goes deep into doom territory 
void ocean
Scath the old doomer
lilac stag
brez on dk needing RP to cast
Ngl dk not being able to res because “my breath” going is one of my favorite raid calls
swift tinsel
tbf its rooted in past experience
void ocean
I heard Dr Doom spot is open for a few days
swift tinsel
lmao its so based tho
lilac stag
I heard Dr Doom spot is open for a few days
I’m in my mephisto arc
swift tinsel
forums are like that too
bleak night
...there are spec reddits?
swift tinsel
some warranted, most not
bleak night
that sounds like a hellscape
lilac stag
we’re in hell. Just accept it.
void ocean
I knew dk will suffer, called it in the first week of march
bleak night
even worse than here
void ocean
Cant wait to shadowstep Dimensius
swift tinsel
I will, then by like week 6 I hide Details window and never look at logs
void ocean
Wake up in Westfall
swift tinsel
once we get out-geared again
hollow spear
I feel like this patch should be better
swift tinsel
Idk we peak early again
hollow spear
I feel like it won't be as bad as this season
lilac stag
I think it’s going to be a rinse and repeat for all three specs
swift tinsel
early daggers, relatively early trinkets
hollow spear
Transmitter really messed up
void ocean
no trinket using
No dagger using
void ocean
Just pls god no more pvp
lilac stag
Assa will lose execute timing.
Sub will just not scale after tier.
Outlaw will get lost looking for rum.
lilac stag
then Sin gets 6% buff
That’s actually 9% because things
swift tinsel
Spatter buffed 30%
tight bison
how will Sub be in s3? any predictions? ive seen som eof us doing hella loads of dmg
vale pine
I feel like it won't be as bad as this season
i mean this season was fine ish
lilac stag
how will Sub be in s3? any predictions? ive seen som eof us doing hella loads of...
Same shit it is now
hollow spear
If you ask these guys it will be the worst spec
void ocean
i mean this season was fine ish
Woah
vale pine
how will Sub be in s3? any predictions? ive seen som eof us doing hella loads of...
best spec in the game as always
hollow spear
Literally below tank damage
tight bison
best spec in the game as always
^^
swift tinsel
i mean this season was fine ish
if we got the aura buff a few weeks earlier I'd agree
at least in raid
m+ is just
lilac stag
Below Aug dmg and fuu drops the fine. Classic fuu.
swift tinsel
not sin
bleak night
void ocean
lilac stag
https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-dumb-and-dumber-whatever-fine-whatever-gif-gif-7892631202993336744
hollow spear
It's not great, but the delta between specs is quite small in the bulk
There's just some big outliers at the top
vale pine
if we got the aura buff a few weeks earlier I'd agree
i mean sub was good for 1-2 weeks, so more than you would expect in a asassiantion themed xpac
hollow spear
Without their 4% buff I'd argue that sin would have been quite shite, they just overslept the deadline for our buff
lilac stag
Sin had one good fight. Mugzee. Then speed kills destroyed that.
lilac stag
Late season raiders do. 
swift tinsel
i mean sub was good for 1-2 weeks, so more than you would expect in a asassianti...
honestly valid point
lilac stag
trying to play sub before the 5% was pain
lilac stag
honestly valid point
That’s like saying every tier is a bm tier. Even when assa was hot garbo it still had most parses in mythic
Sub got instant gratification by bringing over transmitter and having no raid trinkets worth a damn.
Then poof
We weren’t good / setup for more than 2 weeks of gearing. we had carry over.
patent lichen
!upgrade
lilac stag
every tier is a bm tier
Just like assa
patent lichen
crap
hollow spear
Transmitter and our aura buff to compensate for tier set nerfs wrecked us
lilac stag
Sectech didn’t help either
hollow spear
Perception was that we're too strong and didn't need buffs
lilac stag
just don’t need to rewrite history on how good the spec (or rogue was) this tier.
hollow spear
Well, someone has to be mid
swift tinsel
and it overall was best of the 3
pretty sure that's what fuu was saying by it being an assassination xpac
lilac stag
mmhm. Just be nice to not have one mid, and 2 bad
lilac stag
pretty sure that's what fuu was saying by it being an assassination xpac
It wasn’t at the start
lilac stag
but by play numbers it’s always an assa tier.
runic trail
Lowest barrier to entry
bleak night
transmitter was definitely a curse upon the land
hollow spear
Yeah and people always find something to be mad about 
hollow spear
Once you're a top 1/3 spec, it's back to complaining about something else
Kind of a never ending doom cycle
lilac stag
I’m more irritated by game (and spec) bugs than the tuning.
hollow spear
But that's true for any class discord
lilac stag
I can’t wait to not be able to get renown 20
lilac stag
Kind of a never ending doom cycle
Our hunter is mad at himself for not rerolling dev at the beginning of the season. 
haughty mural
Tbf before s2 mm had a rough going
hollow spear
I think s1 bm was quite strong
lilac stag
bm was strong. then mm.
mm and dev are the overall outliers currently.
just funny chasing the if not absolute top dps menty
north schooner
If you have blades press storm inbetween coups
how much of a boost is doing that?
alpine wraith
there are some tactical things you might want to do but they are not an overall dps increase
hazy breach
how much of a boost is doing that?
Not much
lilac stag
gloomblade
clever delta
did we get any updates on builds yet?
warm marlin
all of my testing for holding dance to ensure 2x coup into sectec and doing the current cold blood stuff was not very fruitful i must admit
zugzug seems pretty good
daring raptor
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.Ye its pretty much just send unless flag is coming up
warm marlin
i do think in real world non-full uptime st gameplay itll probably be good to hold coup like that
saving dances for add spawns or whatever
but ya unlike current tier where the cold blood thing is at least equal ish its def not in upcoming tier
clever delta
whats diff about cb?
warm marlin
playing for cold blood kind of requires not casting raw sectecs with no symbols
unlike s2 you are not gonna lose your tier set by casting these raw sectecs and the unseen blades you get from them are slapping way harder
plus you have more cdr to cast them more freely
clever delta
damn casting no symbols sectech will be something i need to get use to
warm marlin
a zugzug between flag window will often look like dance/symbols/sectec at 25-30ish seconds, another dance at 40-45, raw sectec/coups at 1min ish (maybe throw symbols here)
cold blood can't cast raw sectec at 40 and get it back up for 1min easily
at least, that is my guess on why it would be worse
clever delta
that raw sectech is actually cool
you feel like playing game actually
talent wise we are same?
hazy breach
Yep
clever delta
with 1/2 finality
chrome palm
does proccing EB take prioty over storm in dance for aoe?
seems like it pushes back your coup by a bit especially with 2 set
hazy breach
Even before this sim didnt like storming in dance
When we changed the BP condition from 7 targets overall to 5 find weakness up it just stopped wanting to use storm, even with rotten
hazy breach
Well you just stop BPing when you lose the find weaknesses
hazy breach
Which is why its so cursed, idk my ingame testing has it feeling better to just do the old thing
hazy breach
Ah so even at very high counts nimble?
Yes
chrome palm
Damn
They really need to make sec tech spread fw or something
I feel like between fw and fazed
They are just too similar
hazy breach
Well neither need to exist really
hazy breach
Just fix all the nimble bugs and/or buff eviscerate relative to BP so we can just skip BP or relegate it to massive pulls only
Sub already has complicated decisions to make with its CD timings, i feel like that should be the focus of the spec rather than small minmaxes like tracking the amounts of FW you have out and using the correct finisher relative to that
chrome palm
Should really just be nimble in nimble target count otherwise bp
hazy breach
Yep
chrome palm
1 bug fix not announced in notes and reduced KS duration
hazy breach
Blades working with nimble is the main fix i would like to see, but ye theres some other things too
swift tinsel
Oh yeah 100%
hazy breach
Like making prism cap at 18 or 20 stacks instead of 15
So holding for a bigger burst makes more sense
Right now its mostly just an annoying 90s trinket that you dont get on pull in a lot of cases
swift tinsel
Yeah that’s an annoying drawback, and I don’t think just giving a few stacks on pull or first hit would fix unless they changed the stacking around a bit
Juggling two on use in order to have burst on pull isn’t the most fun
hazy breach
I dont think two on-uses is gonna be a thing
alpine wraith
strategically i can see it
overall full st unlikely
the passive ones are very good
hazy breach
Maybe if there was 3 min cd trinkets
alpine wraith
i will try and get a forge anyway
swift tinsel
Unless they bring back garg unholy I don’t see 3mins making a return
Even though it’d be nice
hazy breach
But you waste so much value by delaying your trinkets and you waste value by not having a second trinket during any of your bursts
swift tinsel
That is unironically something DS has in its favor with the cosmic damage trinkets being affected by lingering
I think one 5min test had Screams at ~6% but the variance is a bit prevalent and need to look into a bit more
hazy breach
I think one 5min test had Screams at ~6% but the variance is a bit prevalent and...
Ye which is not particularly good since it doesnt have mainstat, but who knows
But ye trinkets have clearly not been tuned yet
Since the cursed stone idol from halls gives like 50% more than it probably should
pliant topaz
When we changed the BP condition from 7 targets overall to 5 find weakness up it...
I really like not using storm in aoe! I think its really cool that when I go in aoe and theres more targets to hit, I just do what I do, get no extra resources, and just watch other people enjoy the more extra resources they get and blast! while i sit there and do single target! im so happy
lucid jackal
This, but unironically
pliant topaz
well i was being ironic! but to each their own ig
also really weird take to get 0 benefits from having more targets to hit
even outlaw gets value from having more targets to hit
but not sub ig
swift tinsel
Is sub rupture the only maintenance dot that doesn’t gen resource or proc anything
Besides CT ig
pliant topaz
bleak night
i dont think thrash does anything specifically for feral
like it can technically be used for bloodtalons but thats not really from the dot part
could easily be wrong though i havent messed with feral in a while
otherwise cant think of anything
pliant topaz
Pretty sure the ticks from your rip or w/e could proc the free bite in aoe
but could be wrong
swift tinsel
Yeah, apex predator
pliant topaz
but also in large aoe targets die and u keep getting resets on your energy buff thingy
warm marlin
enh flame shock is kind of just damage depending on the build
bleak night
murder of crows for bm as well
swift tinsel
To the point they were doing pretty wild prio
bleak night
but thats passive so eh
warm marlin
you need one up to trigger prim wave every 30s but otherwise it just does damage (as stormbringer)
warm marlin
ye with other hero talent you're proccing stuff
swift tinsel
Voltaic blaze?
warm marlin
i mean that's just a damage proc that happens to also apply the dot
bleak night
Pretty sure the ticks from your rip or w/e could proc the free bite in aoe
rip yeah, but thrash doesnt work for that
pliant topaz
sure, youre still getting more procs of bite + more uptime on your buff + more energy in aoe
thats resources
bleak night
you arent getting more bite procs from thrash, thats entirely from rip
pliant topaz
yes but you get more rips out in aoe
warm marlin
sub rupture is definitely the most boring i would say
pliant topaz
we were talking about sub getting litealrly 0 things in aoe
after new no storm ever tech
bleak night
well yeah that was a seperate thing, im just talking about the "maintenance dot that does nothing else" topic
i agree sub gets nothing in aoe and its shit
swift tinsel
Yup. If it did better damage or contributed something mechanically I’d hate it less but as it stands
tribal blade
they should give replicating to sin
warm marlin
havoc historically did not gain any additional resources from aoe until aldrachi became playable this tier
swift tinsel
Big ol stinker
tribal blade
then give sub something new
swift tinsel
I just don’t want a maintenance dot for the sake of having one
swift tinsel
And it’s way better
tribal blade
its called IC
true
bleak night
well as it should be
pliant topaz
and it works really well for sin because sin doesnt need to get 15 garrote and ruptures ouyt in aoe
unlike subs dumbass
pliant topaz
IC is their peak creative design
dont think they wanna change it to a boring button
thats their holy grail
their peak performance
tribal blade
it's so CRINGE
tribal blade
yeah it was, but had a cap to it's spread
bleak night
only applied to the first garrote and rupture
remove rupture from sub and put the power into sectec
deal
orbital missile sectec
pliant topaz
Nah that’s pretty boring
pliant topaz
Make it a prio button
U keep it on 1 guy, helps u push damage from other targets to that guy
Either in terms of resources procs of big evis etc
bleak night
and what color would you like your dragon to be
pliant topaz
and what color would you like your dragon to be
Purple pls thank you
bleak night
Purple pls thank you
you can have it only if cfo wins
good luck
sub rework squarely in honq's hands
bleak night
its not looking good for the goats
pliant topaz
I believe in doggo app
Aph
Surely game 3
@bleak night OPUT THE DRAGON IN THE BAG
pliant topaz
THEY GOT UFCKING OMEGA GIGA WOMBO COMBOD
bleak night
AL fistfighting cfo 2k down and against elder dragon and still almost get it done
swift tinsel
just started watching at the dragon fight and it's been a trip lol
pliant topaz
just started watching at the dragon fight and it's been a trip lol
you missed out the fucking 6k down soul down into tripple skarner ult rumble cookout throw
9k gold swing in 1 fight
- baron
it got them elder and mid inhib and next baron
kaiwing actually pulled a labrov in game 3 vs fly
swift tinsel
god damnit was driving home from work
idk the last time I watched MSI, I usually tune in for Worlds
upper narwhal
Ocean soul too OP
bleak night
i think cfo had to end with elder
swift tinsel
I think I'm bad luck 
bleak night
gold lead doesnt mean anything anymore
upper narwhal
Ryze has dcap now it’s gg
bleak night
we r5 gnar its doomed
pliant topaz
roa oriana
its fucking
cooked
why the fuck did we pick gnar man
this guy reciting the fucking romeo juliet in perfect enlighs
its fucked
tribal blade
outdpsing a lock who has 30 ilvls on me in a 10 fg
with my warr i literally just started playing again yesterday
random comet
To be fair he got beat by the tank so I think that’s more him than you
But pallies are low key monsters so I’d be proud you got that close to him really
At 20ilvl behind
tribal blade
To be fair he got beat by the tank so I think that’s more him than you
oh yeah for sure
it's just funny
swift tinsel
welp.
bleak night
DOGGO WTF
swift tinsel
thats one way to turn it back around lmao
bleak night
this guy has balls of steel i fucking swear
bleak night
turf tape, hes afraid of burning his arms when he gets tackled
bleak night
no clue, i havent watched lcs in a long time
swift tinsel
idk why but he just irks me so much
brisk onyx
coarse hound
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
bleak night
HONQ THE GOAT
pliant topaz
i have been goonin to CFO game 4 for like 20 minutes
im so proud of them man
theyre so good
dude doggo posturing is insane
they legit faked 30 second of tempo
damn
bleak night
it was a good run
pliant topaz
give them a good top/support
and i swear they can compete with lck
im very much so looking forward to worlds
mnow
swift tinsel
Was a fun series to watch for the matches I got to see
pliant topaz
watch the rest of MSI
its legit only bangers from here on
fly vs blg
t1 geng
oh my god
swift tinsel
I’m gonna try to, just saw the rest of the weeks games and yeah it’s bangers all the way
bleak night
god i hope fly vs blg is a good series
bleak night
im gonna be so disappointed if fly get shit on
pliant topaz
i hope so.... if fly gets 3-0d by blg its a terrifying wakeup call for west
but i dont think the gap is as big as people think
I think bwipo cna match bin for sure
and i think massus better than elk already
swift tinsel
Is NA still a meme
bleak night
yes but now eu is again as well
pliant topaz
Is NA still a meme
not really, fly is probably the best western team
bleak night
fly definitely seems like best western team ye
pliant topaz
but the thing is west vs east gap is too large right now
we will see how large exactly tmrw though with fly vs blg
bleak night
i think mid is the only role where theres a turbo gap tomorrow
massu 50/50 depending on whether he shows up or not
swift tinsel
Oh shit they’re owned by the Bucks too lol
Well affiliated
But that basically makes them a local team
pliant topaz
yeah im worried quad gets destroyed by knight
if they get 3-0d i thnk its jhust gonna be mid gap
upbeat sorrel
Blg isn't even that good compared to the good China/KR teams
plush roost
Name good china teams xd
1: AL
2:
3:
xdd
IG aint it, TES aint it, WE got on a hotstreak but we all knew that was fake, JDG is mental boom, WBG aint it
whats left
pliant topaz
Blg isn't even that good compared to the good China/KR teams
thats the point if fly (best western team) gets 3-0d by blg (worst eastern team at msi)
then it just shows the insane giga gap
upbeat sorrel
Name good china teams xd
just AL really china imploded after last year
i think fly can make it close
could see fly winning or going to 5
tribal blade
this is actually very gratifying
this healer i know and another dk friend i have were way ahead of me early on
i was playing with a team who had less exp so i fell behind where i should have been
and now i'm mostly caught up to where i know i can play at
alpine wraith
big karma
short radish
dry plank
i was playing with a team who had less exp so i fell behind where i should have ...
Teach us how to find team please
short radish
It's not about whether you win or lose, but how much the other person loses.
tribal blade
i just knew i was behind because of those reasons i said
so to catch back up and then some feels good
tribal blade
Teach us how to find team please
i have no team right now /cry
round latch
It's not about whether you win or lose, but how much the other person loses.
personally i never care what other ppl do,i try to get better by myself.Carrying about other ppl rather than yourself,for your own goals is the weak approach
its how that saying goes
small minds speak for other ppl
big minds speak of ideas
tepid trellis
based chang fck the opps
short radish
that quote has lived rent free in my head ever since I saw it
fallow nimbus
Me everytime we have no shami buff and i switch to assa. Did you know that dh essence brake can be parried?
vale pine
just play with a subtlety rogue and you don't care about parry
void ocean
PARRY THE PLATYPUS???
lilac stag
i have no team right now /cry
Remember when you used the excuse you were just playing for your team mates?
lilac stag
PARRY THE PLATYPUS???
This would make Assa Dr. Doofenshmirtz?
mellow gull
!wa
wicked joltBOT
tribal blade
Remember when you used the excuse you were just playing for your team mates?
could still be true!
(even though i'm alone now)
clever delta
@sly shore thats you in ascendance?
sly shore
That's me in ascendance
clever delta
why you guys look for rogue, sus
i think i was about to join couple tiers ago, you are not that long with guild right
tepid trellis
it aint the first time he is in there
clever delta
i had some raid with them in the S3 i think (df)
clever delta
ryian was very honest back than, he liked me but said that trials usually dont see much of progress
sly shore
probs the other rogue
maybe his ethos on that has changed idk
guild has massively massively improved in the past few months
sly shore
3 day for first 2 weeks I think it was
I forget
it's basically the same as 2 day to me lol
tepid trellis
guild has massively massively improved in the past few months
found THD in a lost ark stream earlier today
tepid trellis
to quote michael schumacher you are only as good as your last race
clever delta
whats high end
what you consider by that name
becasue i basically look at random hof guild and i know them usually
sly shore
basically high hof
clever delta
there are some openings for next tier, look like many rogues actually quit
i had fun last season idk
vestal escarp
Undermine was so ass for rog
runic trail
I didn't think it was that bad, barring spread cleave issues on some fights.
runic trail
Granted I'm raiding in very low end CE so my experiences differ a bunch
tepid trellis
it sucked
haughty mural
honest basin
I used to be one of two rogues in both guilds I raid with, and now I'm the only one in both 
One went spriest and the other is going warrior
runic trail
I used to be one of two rogues in both guilds I raid with, and now I'm the only ...
We lost our other rogue so it's just me at the moment
honest basin
Yuh, one is tu/wed/Thu, other is fri/sat
clever delta
well we lost other rogue too
runic trail
Committed
I'm on 2 nights a week main raid group and then the Friday drunk social raid
honest basin
Idk I like the WoW video game and the rogue class even tho devs seem to hate us lol
haughty mural
I wish I had that much time
runic trail
Idk I like the WoW video game and the rogue class even tho devs seem to hate us ...
I just can't play another class so I'm stuck on rogue
lilac stag
You could play Woyer
clever delta
i think next raid will be good for sub
more than for assa
with the council propably decent for outlaw
runic trail
You could play Woyer
Nah I've never played DPS warrior before
clever delta
warrior is very brain dead dont have fun with it
tulip gorge
more than for assa
not if blizzard has something to say about it
assa buffs at the start of the season confirmed
tulip gorge
there are also more pure single target fights, no?
honest basin
I'm gonna try to force sub personally just bc I'm really tired of feeling forced to play sin to make prog smoother lol. But I know I'll probs end up swapping sin again
tulip gorge
now my question is for how long are we going to keep house of cards? 
runic trail
It takes me a long time to get proficient with something in WoW, I can't learn classes quickly so like, if I want to raid next season and not be a floor tank then it's rogue or nothing
clever delta
not much since there is same trinket from new dungeon
tulip gorge
doesn't HoC give way more stats though
clever delta
idk does it?
honest basin
Most rogues are rerolling or quitting
Yeah I don't even blame them tbh. The lack of... Well, anything for this class is depressing lol
tulip gorge
usually raid trinkets are overtuned compared to m+ trinkets
clever delta
there will be tunning pass on trinket closer to release
sly shore
It takes me a long time to get proficient with something in WoW, I can't learn c...
I picked up evoker quickly you can do it
Im old
sly shore
Yeah I don't even blame them tbh. The lack of... Well, anything for this class i...
Yeah just a crumb please
tulip gorge
Yeah I don't even blame them tbh. The lack of... Well, anything for this class i...
hey man you can't mess with perfection
honest basin
hey man you can't mess with perfection <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
...yeah... Perfection...
runic trail
The lack of updates is a bit grim though. I still think we'll get something before the patch but the issue is that leaves limited time for testing and further iteration if it comes too late
honest basin
X d
clever delta
we not doing splits, our RL dont have time for anything extra, its kinda as i enjoy doing something extra at start of season... so only one rogue for me
tulip gorge
The lack of updates is a bit grim though. I still think we'll get something befo...
I wouldn't expect anything more than tuning numbers
runic trail
I wouldn't expect anything more than tuning numbers
I want to believe
hazy breach
now my question is for how long are we going to keep house of cards? <:KEKW:8796...
Kinda replace it asap
honest basin
It's just tough bc like it'll be season 3 so without any sort of buffs to sub we're gonna fall off like a rock bc we scale like shit with secondaries
tulip gorge
Kinda replace it asap
that's nice to hear
hazy breach
With current tuning (which is whack and unlikely to be final) the only trinket thats even worth considering is the Halls of atonement one
But its way overtuned for no reason
So probably gonna end up with prism
tulip gorge
the one that gives crit?
hazy breach
Yes
tulip gorge
isn't that strength only?
hazy breach
str/agi
clever delta
The lack of updates is a bit grim though. I still think we'll get something befo...
there is big raid testing this week and than they will the data they need for tunning of stuff
tulip gorge
interesting
tulip gorge
but I kinda doubt crit would beat mastery
hazy breach
Well 14k > 9k
runic trail
The math checks out
honest basin
clever delta
it will be same scenario, sub strong at start and slowly get passed by assa later on
than they will buff sub little bit to compesate lack of scaling
runic trail
I picked up evoker quickly you can do it
We also already have an evoker so, yeah dunno. Maybe not the best plan.
sly shore
Two is good
hazy breach
Its funny how people interpret assa being buffed as sub having bad stat scaling
runic trail
We'd also then not have a rogue so no atrophic which, isn't a huge deal, but also, it's something
tulip gorge
(assuming they don't forget to buff sub like the last few times)
runic trail
You going evoker fully next season then?
sly shore
Idk i think evoker gaining 100k dps from an item that rogue gets 30k from is kinda a lot
runic trail
Our evoker went ham on prog, did some wild damage
sly shore
Evoker does silly damage still
clever delta
Its funny how people interpret assa being buffed as sub having bad stat scaling
They buffed assa during week 3 or 4
That was when I swapped from sub
Sub was running out of juice during that time anyway
vestal escarp
Halls of atonement 🥹
tulip gorge
you guys really expect them to not ruin halls of atonement? 
vestal escarp
tepid trellis
Sub only started falling behind cuz every other class/spec Got buffed
Sub was about middle
tepid trellis
Monk was nerfed
clever delta
it was still best by far even after nerfs
lilac stag
At the same ilvl as house of cards it gives roughly 50% more stats
Did you run any of the trinket sims using eye?
lilac stag
was looking more for how long it’ll last or if it’s getting replaced week 1 with a dungeon trinket
leaden prairie
you guys really expect them to not ruin halls of atonement? <:PepeLaugh:98550911...
They already did
You can't dispell the stun anymore, you just get stunned
And last boss you have huge aoes you need to run out from and afk
Like actual huge
Entire room huge
swift tinsel
tulip gorge
And last boss you have huge aoes you need to run out from and afk
if only blizzard devs bothered to play something other than mage
runic trail
At least I never did halls of atonement the first time so it can't be ruined for me
hazy breach
was looking more for how long it’ll last or if it’s getting replaced week 1 with...
I mean for general use kezan is kinda bad but its got its niche and could still be good if the later fights are like mugzee where nothing before 40% matters
tulip gorge
honestly how dumb must you be to design these huge ass aoes and not realize it's dogshit for melee
hazy breach
I dont think the penultimate boss works like that, but i have no idea about the last boss so 
lilac stag
I mean for general use kezan is kinda bad but its got its niche and could still...
Was more so thinking longer prog fights if they exist at the start.
leaden prairie
honestly how dumb must you be to design these huge ass aoes and not realize it's...
motherlode aoe dudes
im like
ok my guy
how about fun in a video game tho
vestal escarp
how about fun in a video game tho
No, only misery
tribal blade
you're nonstop dodging while ranged are chilling laughing at you
north schooner
brown circle hell combined with red circle hell
lilac stag
simple solution. play ranged or ret
opal basalt
ironically i feel worse playing ranged
like having to cancel a cast because of a mechanic
feels worse than going out of melee for a bit
north schooner
also the packs in rookery which have the succ + the targeted circle around people
tribal blade
that for sure sucks
but at the same time you're not dealing with 50% of mechanics by default playing ranged
opal basalt
my main game still is raid and i feel like melee are chilling there much more
tribal blade
feels worse than going out of melee for a bit
it's sometimes much more than just a bit
lilac stag
like having to cancel a cast because of a mechanic
This is why the melee run outs are big.
swift tinsel
Ranged often just have to sidestep a few pixels
And have an ABC-enabling ability
We have storm
lilac stag
ranged have more movement planning. Melee is just following the tank.
swift tinsel
Kekw
tribal blade
as ranged you can also dodge in any direction you see fit
fallen crescent
Just throw a shuriken easy
tribal blade
as melee you're generally trying to stay in melee range while dodging
swift tinsel
And almost each ranged spec has a displacement ability
opal basalt
i'm not saying ranged doesnt have it easier
i just think it feels worse to cancel a cast than step out of melee range
idk why
lilac stag
they’re just different.
tribal blade
i think in raid it's a coin toss between melee and ranged usually
opal basalt
subjective thing
tribal blade
depends on who the devs want to punish more
for M+ it's 90% melee being punished i feel
opal basalt
on neltharion i was big chilling
lilac stag
i just think it feels worse to cancel a cast than step out of melee range
Killing a global and activity stopping something vs insta cast and running out
tribal blade
i wish i could find the clip of naohw playing his mm hunter in junkyard during S4 of SL
and was going like "HOLY SHIT THIS IS AMAZING, LOOK AT ALL THOSE MECHANICS I DON'T NEED TO DO, IM CHILLING"
tribal blade
sums it up perfectly for me haha
lilac stag
and was going like "HOLY SHIT THIS IS AMAZING, LOOK AT ALL THOSE MECHANICS I DON...
So lockenstock?
Oh wait that was melee doing nothing.
lilac stag
forgot the /s
hazy breach
Well raid often has exceptions
runic trail
So lockenstock?
Sprocket was chill, boring fight apart from the fear of random drills
fleet wharf
OAB felt significantly easier as melee compared to ranged too
lilac stag
Sprocket was chill, boring fight apart from the fear of random drills
Ask range how chill it was
opal basalt
bro i'm just watching the halondrus melee vs ranged meme video
tribal blade
blizz is generally pretty good about heavily punishing ranged on encounters in raid
opal basalt
and theres a sub rogue toping the meters
swift tinsel
No miss auto attacks go big
runic trail
Ask range how chill it was
I don't speak to the ranged, they know the choices they made
swift tinsel
Plus that tier set was dumb
tribal blade
that tier set could have been very cool
imagine if they brought back that tier set with our current sub build
it would go insane
swift tinsel
Perma blades
tribal blade
yeah literally
swift tinsel
Cleave strike cleaving quadratically via nimble
tribal blade
swift tinsel
85-90% blades uptime
tribal blade
would also be proccing the 4pc quite a bit more because of FI
tribal blade
that was also a nerfed set sadly
it was incredible on ptr
then the nerfs to the %s made the rng way worse
opal basalt
only thing i remember from sepulcher is jpc not being able to get tier at all in splits
i wonder how hard the number squish will be in midnight
like next tier we're gonna do absurd numbers
and i dont really like looking at those rly
fleet wharf
Will it be a clvl squish, ilvl squish or both?
tulip gorge
I expect the numbers to be squished to shadowlands level
opal basalt
totally arbitrary but my line would be like, 1m single target dps as like an aspirational thing with very good play is nice
or if you wanna g further down, make that 100k idk
tribal blade
they would go below 1 mil probably
tribal blade
honestly can't remember, i vaguely remember thousands of dps