They did not fix in retail
#subtlety
brittle plinth
It's a month or so
I got 2.3 weeks of bosses left to do
This drop buff is nonsensical.
Week before buff I got my second binding, first glaive and invincible in the same week. Week off buff I have pulled nothing so far.
cloud rover
Even in 25 player?
tribal blade
so true, sin's prio is nutty
willow pollen
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
oblique burrow
Are we horny for prio?
cloud rover
We dont talk about the Zul Incident
lilac stag
now we just are beta testing spec/talent designs for assa
oblique burrow
and then we'll have no problem switching adds, as a 1.5 min spec
swift tinsel
meanwhile sin justspatters them into oblivion and funnels into boss
haughty mural
and then we'll have no problem switching adds, as a 1.5 min spec
Yea if they just do smth about fatebounds multitarget I can see that coming
oblique burrow
that would be quite cool
oblique burrow
reef walrus
they can still equip bows, it's useless and you can't use abilities, but you can equip it
cloud rover
Thats how i got the first Raszageth Bow for Transmog
Because i could equip it and we had no Hunter
pale spoke
i think i’m a bit confused about what to do in between goes. after our flag/blades/sectech go, i usually come out of it with no dances and 1 symbols
until my next go, am i just farming my cds back? and then id use that one symbols for the one sec tech i get inbetween goes?
cloud rover
I think usualy you can get 1 dance inbetween and one Symbol + Sectech
brittle plinth
Good time for coffee
swift tinsel
i think i’m a bit confused about what to do in between goes. after our flag/blad...
it typically alternates between flags. between opener and 1:30 you'll get 2 sod/dances, between 1:30 and 3min you get 1
but the in-between times are basically for farming cdr
if you find yourself able to send symbols + sectech then that's fine as long as you have everything up for your next flag
cloud rover
It can happen that it works on 1:30 and 3 Min too, but you really need good procs for that
thats not reliable
swift tinsel
yeah gotta get omega lucky
cloud rover
yeah gotta get omega lucky
or AOE prolly
swift tinsel
yeah aoe has much higher cp economy
pale spoke
awesome, thank you both— this is super helpful. just so i understand:
0:00-1:30 — 2 Sod/Dances (what we use during the go effectively, and holding until 1:30)
1:30-3:00 — 2 for the go, and then 1 in in-between goes?
and for procs, which proc are we referencing? thanks for answering q’s too. recently moving to sub haha
cloud rover
Most likely you only get 1 Dance after 1:30 inbetween,
We mean Shadow Technique Procs and Weaponmaster Procs
pale spoke
so between 0:00-1:30, it’s a total of 4 each? 2 sod/dances during flag, and then 2 in-between until 1:30?
swift tinsel
between flags you basically look at secret technique and if you can send sod and dance with it
cloud rover
ye kind off
swift tinsel
without scuffing your next flag
hazy breach
You ALWAYS want 2 dances, 2 sectechs and 2 symbols during flag&blades
I wouldnt really get hung up on "i need to use 2 inbetween here and 1 next time" etc because those can and will vary based on procs and how much uptime you have
swift tinsel
if not, then look at if you can send just sod with it, then if you can just send naked sectech
hazy breach
When you press flag you need atleast 1 charge and ~35 seconds left on your second charge of dance
If you get to flag and you dont have that, then you've sent too many before
pale spoke
this is super super helpful, thank y’all so much
hazy breach
Getting 2 during flag is by far the most important, accidently overcapping one dance outside, while bad, is significantly better than not being able to double dance during flag+blades
pale spoke
in terms of dance in between the go: do we rip it off CD so we can build/spend faster to get to sectech + symbols, or it would be dance + symbols together for the sec tech? (assuming we’d have it back in time for flag)
swift tinsel
you can dance/symbols when sectech has ~10sec left on its cd
as long as its supercharged
and if you have coup ready, you can do that when sectech has closer to 15sec left
but that's something to play with once you're more comfortable with the flow of it
cloud rover
and if you have coup ready, you can do that when sectech has closer to 15sec lef...
Thats some minmax stuff
Just press Buttons
swift tinsel
pale spoke
really really dope. thank you so much
haha yeah i love the min/max stuff. coming from mage to rogue next season
this discord is also way more organized and less stressful than altered time LOL
brittle plinth
Smaller player base
runic trail
Also mages are crazy I swear
vocal wolf
Also mages are crazy I swear
Too long spent in the tower
brittle plinth
I literally didn't draw the connection
haughty mural
Joke - now I’m highly interested in what you wrote
void ocean
what did u say
brittle plinth
I thought it was a word for like zerging in a dumb way
Not a derogatory slur for Asperger's
cloud rover
Joke - now I’m highly interested in what you wrote
Me too
brittle plinth
Me too
How can you be curious? It's literally explained two lines above your response.
runic trail
Not a derogatory slur for Asperger's
Yeah I got filtered once for using that. It happens.
cloud rover
I literally dont know what you mean by the explanation, but its whatever anyways 
brittle plinth
Yeah I got filtered once for using that. It happens.
I'm happier to learn what it means via automatic response rather than the alternative haha
runic trail
I never viewed it as derogatory personally, but I'm also diagnosed autistic and love a bit of self-deprecation, so my perception is probably skewed. It's no big deal at least.
brittle plinth
I couldn't even distinguish it in that way since I was missing the connection. Anyway back to being sub rogues.
brittle plinth
Hahahahaha
I feel like if the UI does it for you, it's fine.
You know what is underappreciated, the new eating skill.
I spam the fuck out of that
tribal blade
it's just funny
it's the same as them going "tracking all this stuff in raid is unacceptable, we're gonna start private auraing stuff"
and then make mechanics that are borderline impossible without weakauras
north schooner
I don't believe they will limit tracking friendly auras
but at the same point we know nothing because they've given 0 info
runic trail
Just let me have my little bar in the middle of my screen for my buffs/debuff trackers, I don't care about much else
Had to turn off the WA pack once and playing without it was miserable
brittle plinth
They specifically called out tracking other ppls CDs
For sure they will limit stuff like this
north schooner
CDs and auras are different though
and there is no way they block access to auras applied by the player to friendlies
hazy breach
Why wouldnt they
north schooner
they'd have to redesign all healer specs
hazy breach
No
Theyd just make it baseline
But not allow addons to see it
Thats their entire thing theyre talking about
vocal wolf
I'm curious how well wcl is gonna track stuff if they are planning on disabling log hooks
brittle plinth
Their long term goal is to have a version of the game that is mostly playable out of the box
so console/mobile become options
that means removing things the community thinks it has to add
north schooner
whatever they make baseline will be somewhat skinable by addons at least. Similar but hopefully more extensible than what they did with private auras (which failed as a concept)
brittle plinth
so if its essential, it becomes tracked natively, or they design around that
hazy breach
Im pretty sure its gonna suck ass for a while because their track record with stuff like this is not great
But as always, blizzard has good and solid goals but end up tripping on their execution to reach said goal
north schooner
but I don't trust that they will manage to keep a whitelist of auras that are visible up to date between patches. They failed to do that with the CD tracker already
vocal wolf
If I have a trial who's found out to be playing mobile I'd prolly fail them xd
north schooner
maybe they will have a better idea of what is being restricted when gamescom is happening and they announce midnight etc. For now any clarifications they've provided are very vague
and there is a lot of dooming happening due to that
swift tinsel
It soundsvery much like they want to eliminate the computational power of addons like weakauras, less so the ones that don't impact decision-making
or that trivialize parts of encounters
which is a good thing
now whether or not they implement that well, remains to be seen and they don't exactly have history on their side
vocal wolf
For me it's the idea they are planning for console/mobile but they keep having horribly optimized fights. I've seen good PCs freeze up on fights like Tindrial, Ovinax, (I hear OAB wasn't great either). Just trying to imagine someones phone trying to handle some of those bosses lol
runic trail
I'd have a bit more faith if the cooldown manager released in a more feature complete state. I know it's still a huge work in progress but, I think tensions would be relieved a bit if it was better out of the gate
vocal wolf
The lack of adjustability really killed it
swift tinsel
the cooldown manager is also competing with weakauras which as considerably more but also has 100x the incubation period/iterations
runic trail
I'm not saying it needed to be perfect, it just needed to be more functional than it is now
Because I tried it, realised I could barely do anything with it and then disabled the feature
swift tinsel
they should have waited to release it until it was more fleshed-out for sure
theydropped it like a week after first saying it was gonna be a thing lol
cloud rover
they should have waited to release it until it was more fleshed-out for sure
The thing is
runic trail
Yeah, I fully accept it's still in an early state but releasing it as it is was... Very dumb
cloud rover
They half ass like every major feature they add
swift tinsel
yeah that's the blizz standard approach
north schooner
no the CD manager released in a tragic state. Some specs were missing vital things in their list. I have no idea why they didn't delay it, but that entire patch was a disaster tbh
cloud rover
of course people are really sceptical about the new UI restrictions
swift tinsel
*see every system ever added to the game ever
runic trail
no the CD manager released in a tragic state. Some specs were missing vital thin...
Was that in 11.1.2 or 11.1.5, I forget
11.1.5 was... One of the patches of all time though
north schooner
it was .5
runic trail
Idk what they were thinking with the duos mode but.... Just give us brawlers guild back instead
People liked the brawlers guild
runic trail
I tried duos once, noticed some of my talents didn't work, and had no clue wtf was going on
swift tinsel
and no one wanted to pick up the mantle
duos just kinda sounds like a thrown-together mess
runic trail
duos just kinda sounds like a thrown-together mess
The 'if you have a shirt/tabard on you scale to 1 ilvl' bug was funny as fuck at least
north schooner
The 'if you have a shirt/tabard on you scale to 1 ilvl' bug was funny as fuck at...
good thing they didn't further reduce their QA team following that
runic trail
pale spoke
you can dance/symbols when sectech has ~10sec left on its cd
heya! when you have a second. could you further clarify here? if i dance/sod ~10s out (15s with coup-- would i be holding my combo points until sectech is back to ensure it gets used with supercharged points? or do i just spend on evis? is it better to wait right before sectech so it's charged? sorry just some confusion here
swift tinsel
heya! when you have a second. could you further clarify here? if i dance/sod ~10...
sure thing! if you have dance/sod ready and waiting for sectech to come off cooldown, you can send the sod/dance when sectech has roughly 10 sec left on its cooldown. because sectech gets 1 second of cooldown reduction per combo point spent, using a finisher will effectively make sectech ready as your second finisher
when using symbols with the supercharger talent, you always want to make sure you're supercharging secret technique and since we currently orient our symbols and dance usage around secret technique, you use them in a way to always guarantee its the first or second finisher after casting symbols since supercharger affects two finishers
haughty mural
sure thing! if you have dance/sod ready and waiting for sectech to come off cool...
*using a supercharged finisher it is
Ah nvm you clarified with the second message
pale spoke
ohh!! i think i see. so as i understand:
- 15s out w/ coup de grace (because it'll act as a +5!)
- 10s out w/o coup
Supercharger will charge 2 combo points. But damage finishing moves only consume 1 of these points (i had thought they consumed both)
- because of this, that means 2 finishers in our SOD window are 'supercharged'
- this then allows us that grace period in the 10-15s window to utilize it as our second finisher!
so how does this play off the capstone talent of Forced Induction? is that strictly a dmg increase, or does that count as like a '+1' combo point, which is a further second off SecTech's CDR?
swift tinsel
ohh!! i think i see. so as i understand:
- 15s out w/ coup de grace (because it'...
yeah, each finisher only consumes 1 supercharged combo points so each cast of symbols allows 2 supercharged finishers and we want one of those to be secret technique. forced induction just acts as a +1 to the 'function as if they spent 2 additional combo points' part
proper latch
No point in holding cds on mythic Gally, right?
pale spoke
yeah, each finisher only consumes 1 supercharged combo points so each cast of sy...
insane. thank you SO much
swift tinsel
so during regular single target play you'll aim to cast evisc/coup and sectech as those two finishers
swift tinsel
insane. thank you SO much
happy to help!
chrome palm
No point in holding cds on mythic Gally, right?
Gally is like the only fight that you hold cds anymore
It’s helpful to not send on opening because a lot of classes will have CDs back for first add spawn, but sub opens really hard
So you’ll burst the shield too fast and won’t have much damage for the technician
pale spoke
AHHH. so when we get to our flag go. there is a real world where when we hit our scond symbols/death, that we could mess it up because we could double evis off the symbols to farm back sec tech, and when we hit cold blood for that sec tech-- it won't be supercharged
if we mess up the sec tech CDR timing between flag goes
proper latch
At this point of the patch adds just melt
chrome palm
Yeah but, holding for first add spawn still is a gain
swift tinsel
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
chrome palm
Don’t need to if you don’t want to
And obviously you can hold for the other add spawns after that
pale spoke
@swift tinsel THANK YOU
chrome palm
Because the next two blades line up with add spawns if you hold the first one
swift tinsel
<@534102863207464971> THANK YOU
you ask good questions so they're easy to answer lol
pale spoke
hahaha thanks dude. im 3500 on arcane rn, and so eager to for the swap to rogue. so all of these min/max questions are super helpful to have answered as i wrap my brain around this spec lol
swift tinsel
and they suggest you're putting things together on your own and just need a bit of help filling in some of the gaps
leaden prairie
@swift tinsel FUCK YOU
swift tinsel
<@534102863207464971> FUCK YOU
that's not very cash money of you
but also, valid point
leaden prairie
mb
pale spoke
@swift tinsel you dont pvp as sub, do you? or is there another member of the cord that can answer pvp related q's?
pale spoke
hahaha thank you
so technically, i can make a WA tracker that has a 20s CD for Unseen blade
to min/max coup de grace
chrome palm
It gets reset randomly by autos which you cannot fully track
Istarian has a good weak aura for it
It’s a lot of custom code to roughly guess when you should get the reset, and it also shows when you get disorienting strikes and when they’re consumed
hazy breach
Tracking it doesnt really change anything anyway so i wouldnt bother
chrome palm
It’s kinda nice
I just have it on the same icon as escalating blade
As the bottom text
swift tinsel
I use LE's on ptr but I don't bother tracking on live
pale spoke
could I get a link to that WA?
swift tinsel
I kinda wanna track it though so I know when I can guarantee fazed going into flag with coup ready
but I can just look at flag cd and go from there probably
leaden prairie
for outlaw its more relevant
chrome palm
So don’t worry about it as long as you’re tracking escalating blade
pale spoke
totally -- thank you. that all makes a ton of sense
messer-- how did you add this to the bottom of your escalating blade WA?
that might be a more WA intense question so apologies if this isnt the place to ask
but that would be great to have. i like seeing that kind of 'BLP' information. i use it on intuition for barrage a lot and it's helpful
chrome palm
I added the trigger for escalating blade to this weak aura and some other conditions
I’ll upload it for you later when I’m at my pc
pale spoke
awesome. thank you so much-- that would be super helpful
brittle plinth
The trick is to really think about what tracking really matters
Are you really going to play differently cause of it or not
keen dome
You know what's worse than Sub not getting a lot of attention? Hellfire Citadel's raid skip being after Hellfire Assault.
Who decided that! Who sat there and went "You know what, they should have to always do hellfire assault"
rich stump
Does this look cursed for M+?
You trade overall damage, because you would always evisc on highest health target but in theory it does make keys go faster
You have perma 145%+ movement speed
Gloom balade which is ok
Can play around premed outside of blades by enetering dance with full CP
Only issue I see is if there are 2-3 high HP targets
Rotten replaced with Shuriken 100% crit node
Theoretically doesn't look bad
hazy breach
Gloomblade is really stinky, but outside of that its fine
2 symbols charges feels better in theory than in practice, having the third charge, especially in keys that has downtime, is very nice
rich stump
Gloomblade is really stinky, but outside of that its fine
yea just nothing else worth taking with those 2 points, tornado maybe but idk
rich stump
2 symbols charges feels better in theory than in practice, having the third char...
yea I just did a training dummy test, it forces me to use a naked 2nd dance after big cds, that feels weird
hazy breach
But ye you can play something like that if you want to, but what ive found is that you lose quite a bit of ST for little to no aoe gain
rich stump
yea it's a niche build, probably good in some dungeons with a premade team, running it in pugs would raise some questions from their part when there is a 20 mob pull and tank is above you
charred sandal
Gloomblade is really stinky, but outside of that its fine
what if u take 5 talents to buff it, play DS and cancel aura ur blades and shadow dance 
hazy breach
I mean its still gonna be stinky in aoe
charred sandal
so u would take 5 talents to buff it and cancel aura ur blade and shadow dance in ST 
charred sandal
https://wago.io/rWQzLCtCI
this is baseline on the cooldown manager in game tho
chrome palm
UB tracking is in the cooldown manager?
charred sandal
chrome palm
That’s just escalating blade
charred sandal
doesnt flawless form indicate unseen blade procced
chrome palm
The weak aura I posted is just the isarian unseen blade predictor with escalating blade also
hazy breach
Aka an attempt to showing the cooldown of unseen blade
charred sandal
ahhh i see
chrome palm
Funny that sentinels much simpler private aura gets changed to a debuff
But not subtlety’s
charred sandal
it tries to predict thousand cuts reset procs
swift tinsel
pretty sure it does
hazy breach
Wdym stack
swift tinsel
the reset one adds on to the 2 from disorienting instead of overwriting it
chrome palm
Or the natty one you get at beginning of pull
swift tinsel
so you technically get 3
yeah
since the 1k cuts resets guarantees a UB proc on your next backstab, it does so without 'stealing' one from disorienting
which is what i think realz was saying in that outlaw post before
hazy breach
My understanding is that it always uses the disorienting blades first
charred sandal
dave knows his shit
chrome palm
If you just sec tech a dummy and wait for the natty UB proc
swift tinsel
I can check in just a sec but I'm 95% sure
hazy breach
Well ye, because it uses both of your disorienting strikes and then it uses the natty one
the natty ones dont conflict, because it uses the disorienting strike ones first
chrome palm
Well who can say if thousand cuts eats disorienting then
Because it can’t be tracked
hazy breach
It doesnt eat disorienting
swift tinsel
could be, I've always thought of them being in two different 'banks'
one for disorienting, one for natty procs/thousand cuts resets
hazy breach
Ye
swift tinsel
I haven't looked too hard into which it takes from first
hazy breach
That it consumes the regular/tc proc before disorienting
Opposite
chrome palm
Ah ok
swift tinsel
that would make sense though if it pulled disorienting first
hazy breach
Like if i pop sectech and then backstab once it will use one disorienting strike, if i fly away and afk 20s
And then go open it will only proc 2 in a row
chrome palm
Yeah
hazy breach
Since it used one of the disorienting strikes before, even though the natty cd was ready
But likewise if the natty cd is not ready you'll still be able to proc unseen with disorienting
hazy breach
Idk i dont think it matters
chrome palm
Maybe they think it would be confusing if thousand cuts makes you “lose” the debuff randomly or something
I mean it would let you track it at least
hazy breach
Ye but what would that do
chrome palm
I mean it would be nice for when you are finishing on 3 EB stacks with like 16s on sec tech and you can refresh symbols
Because if you know you’re getting coup then you don’t need to wait for the ub to proc
Gives you more time
swift tinsel
I think of it like Reavers Glaive which has a glow on the icon when its ready
it may not be required for the spec to function, but would be a positive if it existed
hazy breach
Idk people just overload their UI with useless shit that you dont base any decision on, and this would just be another one of those
Like deeper daggers or alacrity
chrome palm
Idk I would use it
hazy breach
But it doesnrt do anything
chrome palm
What about the situation I just mentioned
hazy breach
Almost never happens and even if it does it doesnt really matter
Because youll end up holding sectech anyway later
So using it 4 seconds earlier doesnt matter much
charred sandal
man why they took away sprint walking on water thing
hazy breach
Its like tracking house of cards, your weapon enchant, the new belt proc or pacemaker. It might sound like you could play around any of them but in reality it just doesnt end up being worth it on average compared to just playing around your class timings
There obviously could be procs like that which would be strong enough to warrant it, but none of those are particularly powerful atm
warm marlin
Gotta track unseen blade so you can goremaw to prevent overcap obviously
chrome palm
The only difference for me is that in blades, I like to know if I can supercharge coup for a little more CDR to press sec tech next
Personal preference
hazy breach
But supercharging coup doesnt matter
chrome palm
I know
I’m saying
If you have like 17s or so on sec tech, if you supercharge coup you can sec tech after
warm marlin
I track unseen blade because my wa pack just shares the one I use on outlaw
chrome palm
I’m just talking about the cdr from supercharging
warm marlin
The only time it’s mildly useful is mentally preparing for coup before it’s procced
so you can react to the omega delayed refund
serene notch
Do you track FW applications @hazy breach ?
hazy breach
Not on my nameplates, but i have a number that tracks the number of FWs out
serene notch
I feel like I should be but I kind just hand wavy it away after pressing storm once after symbols
serene notch
I think it’s my currently most disliked part of our kit atm
serene notch
Not on my nameplates, but i have a number that tracks the number of FWs out
Hmm good to know
pale spoke
https://tenor.com/view/for-you-cat-flower-flower-cat-cute-cat-cat-holding-flower...
tysm!!! 💙
went to work but going to download when i get home asap
lilac stag
@tribal blade the rogue ptr notes you were hoping for just landed
jaunty heath
Yes!!! Single Target rotation buff!!
alpine wraith
ahahaha
runic trail
I saw that and its just.... oh okay then.
There's still a month and a bit before the patch at least
jaunty heath
Yeah they needed more info on the rogue specs
Other classes had enough info
But all 3 rogue specs being bottom
Wasn't enough
Need another 4 weeks before they dare touch it!
jaunty heath
Hire dedicated class devs ty.
lilac stag
Good thing you love rogue
runic trail
Good thing you love rogue
I love my rogue, the class as a whole.... eh.
But I've mentioned before, first character I made, there's attachment there
lilac stag
what are quests? Like your rogue eats protein bars?
bleak night
fuck tons of them
runic trail
i play my rogue because ive done the most quests on it
Sort of same. Cos it makes it feel real awkward when I do quests on other characters and they go, 'oh, champion, you're here'.
The fuck do you mean champion?
This character hasn't done shit
bleak night
i just have stockholm syndrome
runic trail
WHY NOT PUT THAT IN THE NOTES YOU FUCKS
runic trail
no longer reset, now strikes twice
okay so, pretend I'm not a smart person, this is a good thing, right?
swift tinsel
4pc seems to function exactly the same
warm marlin
no longer reset, now strikes twice
Is this really better though
I guess it sort of is for outlaw
hazy breach
Fairly sure its better
swift tinsel
will still waste stacks if you proc at 3 but should lead to less friction ig
warm marlin
If you have to shadowstrike once before consuming the 4p you lose 2 stacks instead of one
hazy breach
Since ye you waste stacks, but youll get more procs during CDs
sick jackal
Good thing they included the real important stuff
yeah how are we going to use wound poisons as single button players
in pvp
warm marlin
Probably even more important to consume both coups before sectec 
left ledge
It is a good change because now you don’t have to attempt to track something meaningless and it also means you don’t play goremaw
Did I mention goremaw cope is dead
Remove that talent
swift tinsel
there does appear to be a slight delay in the 2nd strike when it procs
but that could be latency-related
and its very small
left ledge
Prob latency if you’re testing on dummies in ptr
warm marlin
It is a good change because now you don’t have to attempt to track something mea...
Well technically it benefits goremaw since goremaw’s purpose was to prevent overcap and this encourages more overcap probably
left ledge
Well technically it benefits goremaw since goremaw’s purpose was to prevent over...
How can you predict it exactly
You either proc once or twice
warm marlin
Most overcap occurred during disorienting
left ledge
You’re gonna have to press strike anyways
warm marlin
Ye but if it procced before you only lost 1 stack and instead got the 2p blade next time you strike
Now you’ll double proc while at 4 escalating
left ledge
Why would you double proc at 4
You strike at 3, if you proc it twice you’re shafted anyways
If you don’t then it’s just regular
I’m a bit confused by what you mean
warm marlin
The old 2p delayed the extra unseen blade
Potentially allowing you to coup before using it
left ledge
Yeah by forcing you to strike or stab again
It basically gave you an extra ub
But you had to choose when to use it
Goremaw was being used to avoid wasting that extra stack by replacing a strike essentially
spice matrix
Have I been going cuckoo and seen eviscerate not lower the CD of Sec tech sometimes?
left ledge
But how can you use goremaw to avoid wasting a stack that’s automatically used
charred sandal
ppl using goremaw?
swift tinsel
okay getting back to back double hits right after spending coup to get another 2 globals later feels amazing
our 5 Buff dream
lilac stag
It will
keen dome
If goremaw sees play in S3 I will level a DH a sa joke.
swift tinsel
I'm noticing getting triple dance chain is way more reliable but need to check out more
fierce wigeon
If goremaw sees play in S3 I will level a DH a sa joke.
I’d be surprised if rogue sees play in s3
charred sandal
If goremaw sees play in S3 I will level a DH a sa joke.
as a joke
keen dome
As a joke
keen dome
I’d be surprised if rogue sees play in s3
Well I will play rogue so it'll see play.
warm marlin
But how can you use goremaw to avoid wasting a stack that’s automatically used
Scenario: going into blades with coup ready and 7 sht
Sectec, coup, need to build
Old 2p: strike, overcap 1 blade, if 2p procs it’s fine since you will use it after 2nd coup
New 2p: strike, overcap 2 blades if 2p procs
You goremaw instead of strike here, saving 1 UB with old 2p and 2 with new 2p
I don’t think goremaw is good
But new 2p makes the overcap problem worse
charred sandal
they just remove energy from SoD and make us depend on goremaw to not starve on burst
keen dome
keen dome
nuh-uh
left ledge
Scenario: going into blades with coup ready and 7 sht
Sectec, coup, need to buil...
You don’t save though because you don’t know if it procs or don’t
warm marlin
30% of the time you save 2 instead of one whereas before you always saved only one
left ledge
Yes but you also proc a UB without committing the gcd
I think gambling the 30% is just never going to be worth it to play goremaw
I mean I get what you’re saying but it’s not like a “I’m playing around it”
warm marlin
Goremaw is awful but the new 2p does make it gain slightly (to still awful)
left ledge
swift tinsel
anyone else on ptr finding they're fitting 3 sectech in flag more often
warm marlin
Escalating is still capped at 4 right
swift tinsel
yep
buff still behaves exactly the same as before and bricks stack gain for 5 sec
ooo looks like dungeon trinkets are on the tauren
hazy breach
Scenario: going into blades with coup ready and 7 sht
Sectec, coup, need to buil...
Well even if you overcap it still does the damage and gives the flawless buff
Which is way better than proccing it an extra time later outside cds
swift tinsel
hmge no HoA trinket tho
warm marlin
We shall see 
swift tinsel
looks like they fucked up and put a few of them in twice lol
left ledge
Tier change is def big for us
swift tinsel
swift tinsel
honestly if they do nothing else and just change the 5sec brick I'd be fine with the set going live as-is
swift tinsel
like yeah ideal world they let escalate stack more than 4
left ledge
Does it just prevent you from stacking
swift tinsel
What’s the 5 sec brick
if you consume coup, you can't stack eb for 5 seconds or until you consume the 4pc buff
because it's just a 4stack EB with a buff duration instead of a unique buff
warm marlin
Escalating above 4 
swift tinsel
I mean that would be ideal just baseline
warm marlin
Actually the new 2p makes predisorienting stronger too right?
swift tinsel
it's been feeling like it so far yeah
warm marlin
I don’t think the free procs really work with that
swift tinsel
I often have coup as first evisc
warm marlin
With the double strike you can feasibly coup first ya
swift tinsel
I don’t think the free procs really work with that
wym
warm marlin
I’m not entirely sure how they interact
You might overwrite them with your new sectec
swift tinsel
yeah idk if you can indefinitely stack disorienting
but they can definitely strike twice
so functionally the same as before, any UB has a chance to stack twice
imma try something
warm marlin
I meant with the old 2p I’m not sure it fully functioned
hazy breach
It did
warm marlin
it just seemed like you would have more ubs in opener from 2p after 4 straight disorienting ones in a row
swift tinsel
okay you can't stack disorienting past two
warm marlin
maybe I’m cooked
6 from disorienting, on average you should proc your 2nd set of coups right after 2nd sectec since 6 guaranteed + 30%*6
That was not my experience
doesn’t matter anymore anyway
new 2p good
warm marlin
doing the full calculation too annoying
hazy breach
Im pretty sure old 2p is more escalating stacks overall
But i also think the new 2p is more damage
Because each proc is better
warm marlin
is there ever enough cdr to do coup coup sectec in blades outside opener?
and still get the 2nd one in blades
Less potential proc waste maybe
hazy breach
But like haptic said earlier i think the upside of being able to double proc and get 4 stacks from 2 strikes feels good enough to outweigh any downside
That the new version has compared to the old
swift tinsel
this one definitely feels like it has more upside like you're saying
at least so far
and with tfd you're chaining triple dance triple sectech quite often
warm marlin
I have hope that escalating max stacks get changed so most issues are just insta resolved
swift tinsel
pre-disorient does feel quite a bit stronger now too
delicate steeple
big changes today eh
swift tinsel
one impactful one
haven't gone through the full buglist but all the usual suspects appear to still be there
midnight ledge
Sorry trying to keep up. Following most everything except the disorienting strikes one. What do you mean by pre disorienting? Using secret tech before burst?
tepid trellis
sectech a critter or smth before a pull
cuz the buff for the 2 free unseen blade procs
lasts infinitely
and through death
swift tinsel
and with new 2pc its quite common to have coup for first evisc in blades
midnight ledge
So in m+ the only opportunity I can think of for that is sec tech at the end of a pull and then not using bs / ss till the next pull?
tepid trellis
yeh or on a dummy before key start
warm marlin
Mostly a raid thing
midnight ledge
Gotcha
midnight ledge
Thanks. Trying to learn as much as possible. 🙂
sly shore
Epic!
swift tinsel
Yeah its pretty cool, I'm liking it
swift tinsel
I personally think it'll raise the ceiling a bit
still going to see EB waste tho bc it def procs when you're at 3/4 EB stacks
but that might just be a pill we swallow
was saying earlier though you can highroll and get 4 stacks in 2 globals
which is reallll nice
lapis dew
so with no 90sec next season will subt be okay later into the season
lapis dew
okok
swift tinsel
technically 2 dungeon if they ever put that Echelon one in
forgot to put it in the game today instead we got 2 Ticking Sacks and 2 Solei's
will try logging some dummy stuff later tho
but overall happy with change, just need to address EB stuff if they feel like it and we're positioned pretty well
oh shit forgot to check if they did a full DS rework
alpine wraith
also a funny thing
now highroll resets from thousand are even gnarlier
as they can rng double hit too
always gamble
alpine wraith
even worse losing shamans
swift tinsel
had a few times where I 2nd coup, strike strike coup
keen dome
Time to make friends with a few Shamans to gurantee you've got one.
swift tinsel
also every time I play DS set I hate it more and more
having to babysit mark even more bc of symbols consumption feels obtrusive
hollow spear
I hate predisorienting as a concept, can't we get that baked in
If you can't get your sectec out before a wipe, it's not great
warm marlin
it was in my feedback post 
swift tinsel
I made another one asking for EB stacks lol
warm marlin
left ledge
Blizz clearly doesn’t like prepulls
warm marlin
I have to update with new tier set thing ig
glacial orbit
how is sub looking for s3
rich stump
(I know the answer is I should sim but I don't trust M+ sims)
My mastery is at 21k which is to the cap 10% dr threshold
If I am going to craft a piece should I still go mastery vers or would vers crit make more sense(is mastery that much stronger than crit even if it's DRd by 10%?)
serene notch
Not sure how to answer this, if you don’t trust the sims are you looking for opinions that just align with yours?
left ledge
But you should just sim it
There is no possible way to answer the question without simming it, both of them have no interaction other than bigger damage number
swift tinsel
DR's are kinda whatever anyways
rich stump
Not sure how to answer this, if you don’t trust the sims are you looking for opi...
no I just legit don't know, idk if much has changed but I remeber m+ sims just being inconsistent overall, for talents especially but not sure about sats
serene notch
Fair, I think the prevailing wisdom is to sim as it’s the best imperfect solution we have.
rich stump
ok I'll try rn
serene notch
also blizz gaslighting with the 3% devastation buff
That shit seems so bizarre
Like the rich get richer?
swift tinsel
they're losing power from their s2 tier set getting nerfed
so I imagine its to mitigte some of that
warm marlin
1.29/1.25=3.2%
swift tinsel
1.29/1.25=3.2%
ye i know just being a shit lol
serene notch
PTR so scuffed rn
charred sandal
(I know the answer is I should sim but I don't trust M+ sims)
My mastery is at 2...
stats are bait
brittle plinth
Bubbles is gone?
charred sandal
everything is +dmg with different names
brittle plinth
No one sad I assume
rich stump
stats are bait
I mean going full haste sub is either giga brain seleeper tech or 
charred sandal
I mean going full haste sub is either giga brain seleeper tech or <:OMEGAKEKW:82...
agility is top prio on the stat weight if its an Ilvl upgrade it will be better no matter the stats
not to mention 4 of the slots are decided for u, 2 are set in stone and 2/3 u can decide manually
rich stump
agility is top prio on the stat weight if its an Ilvl upgrade it will be better ...
that's for sure but if you can choose like crafted items I guess simming is the more concrete answer
haughty mural
Besides 2p change is there smth else ? Wowhead won’t load for me
swift tinsel
nope, just 2pc change
haughty mural
swift tinsel
need to look into some of the other bugs tho but that's all I've seen so far
swift tinsel
hey its a step in the right direction
and its still relatively early into ptr
we can still see EB changes
charred sandal
that's for sure but if you can choose like crafted items I guess simming is the ...
u said u didnt want "sim it" as an answer tho
haughty mural
hey its a step in the right direction
That’s what you guys said after emerald nightmare
swift tinsel
That’s what you guys said after emerald nightmare
jokes on you I never played that tier
haughty mural
keen dome
It was a fun raid
swift tinsel
time for nimble bug test
haughty mural
It was a fun raid
Yea it was fun as sub with will of valeera and prydaz
Didn’t die on prog
charred sandal
that's for sure but if you can choose like crafted items I guess simming is the ...
if u dont want to sim and wanna raw dog it, u pick ur lowest ilvl slot from the minor slots (bracer, cloak, maybe boots) and craft that shi with vers/mastery and forget about it
rich stump
u said u didnt want "sim it" as an answer tho <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
yea cuz for some specs it's obvious, you would never consider a craft with haste on sub so maybe crit was about the same as an idea
swift tinsel
secondiaries are kinda whatever on crafted items
you're probably fine with mastery/vers/crit
its all essentially interchangeable between the three as long as you have an appreciable amount of mastery and vers
don't overthink it
charred sandal
U also get a shit ton from set in stone slots such as trinks, rings, belt and headpiece
swift tinsel
Default is mastery/vers craft, can do with crit if you really want
charred sandal
stacking vers increases value if u like stepping on evil circles of doom
rich stump
stacking vers increases value if u like stepping on evil circles of doom <:pepe_...
yea 20% vers and 10 Dance DR feels juicy
I even have 5% leech + 5% finisher leech and shield from node
during balades I can heal myself a noticibale amount
if only there were more sources of leech
warm marlin
well it looks like the new 2pc is significantly better huh
charred sandal
i love giving my healers ptsd by using cheat death to its full value
hazy breach
well it looks like the new 2pc is significantly better huh
More than double the previous value 
swift tinsel
saving vanish for the between-dance double coups feels nice
warm marlin
but my overcap man
alpine wraith
it is very much better
swift tinsel
trading one gamba set for another
warm marlin
this iteration cast coup 6 times in 15 seconds
alpine wraith
this one is more gamba
the other one after all nerfs it was whatever
if you had 2 or 3 dances in a row you stacked it
alpine wraith
nah dont worry we are like quite a bit behind the big bois still
but as always more tuning to come
heady shell
I haven't kept up with the changes, but with the 4 piece, do you not need to recast ss between Coups
swift tinsel
you need to build combo points to spend on the 2nd coup
heady shell
Oh i see
swift tinsel
I've been liking using vanish with premed on the ones you can't lean on shadowcraft
bc you're doing it for cdr anyways and I've been finding at least one time its useful between cd sets
swift tinsel
yeah, its kinda hard to know exactly when you're gonna need to double coup outside
UB's be hittin'
alpine wraith
they have better wm
and they actually nimble
unless the second one doesnt because fuck you
but i cant try it
i go sleep zzz
swift tinsel
I think they do
swift tinsel
iirc from when I was checking nimble bugs
alpine wraith
like shadowstrike wm and goremaw
swift tinsel
all of which are still there
alpine wraith
ehehe
tender frost
Does entropic embrace (ve racial) still do that thing where it basically procs every minute on the minute or did i make that up
alpine wraith
does it work with sec tech now
tender frost
ty eleem
alpine wraith
forgot to ever check
hazy breach
does it work with sec tech now
Idk im not a velf so
brisk onyx
raven ginkgo
Testing out trinkets, whats it looking like we'll use in S3?
I Currently use signet over house since I don't have a myth one so it seems okay to take again
hazy breach
Netherprism
Signet is kinda terrible so i would suggest using almost anything else for sub
lilac stag
Heroic HoC > mythic signet
raven ginkgo
Just because of the stacking effect? or? Myth signet is giving me more mastery than HoC is
hazy breach
Well ye but signet has 2 min cd
So its effectively a 3 min cd
Whereas hoc is 90s and up for every burst
raven ginkgo
Fair point
lilac stag
We’re a 90 second spec. You’re giving up every other go
maybe in a 5 min sim they are close. Any m+ or different fight length HoC will be better
raven ginkgo
Roger that
I've been designated rogue for the main team whereas it was an alt before so just trying to get it nailed down
lilac stag
I’m sorry
raven ginkgo
Sorry that I have to play rogue? or? haha
midnight ledge
I can't figure out why or when I'd want to use vanish in sub rotation. I've seen people say it's for CDR but besides getting a 7pt shadow strike out of stealth what am I missing?
hazy breach
Its literally only the cp
Nothing else
Use it whenever you feel like that isnt during blades
quasi mantle
also useful as a stop or other mechanic avoider in mythic+
midnight ledge
ah okay. I was driving myself crazy looking for some weird cdr interaction.
besides the typical spender
ty
lilac stag
Sorry that I have to play rogue? or? haha
Basically ones playing rogue are old school one tricks that are mentally to attached to it, or someone trying to fill a missing raid spot.
Our ptr notes today sum up how well development goes for the class
raven ginkgo
I enjoy current sub, just thought it needed the dmg dial turned a hair
I am swapping from lock though so being melee for more than M+ will be interesting
raven ginkgo
Our ptr notes today sum up how well development goes for the class
None, LMAO
lilac stag
Oh there was one.
raven ginkgo
Just saw that
charred sandal
Oh there was one.
killing spree rework 
hazy breach
It wasnt mentioned in the notes but they did change our 2p
Its not strike twice instead of reset cd
Which is uh, quite a lot stronger
junior pewter
@shut ridge 
shut ridge
lilac stag
The bug and talent fixes we were hoping for. 
charred sandal
The bug and talent fixes we were hoping for. <:dead:932888396316155934>
now i wont apply the wrong poisons yesssssssss
chrome palm
obr to apply poisons kinda op actually
bleak night
takes longer because extra gcd
chrome palm
dont need to use my buggy castsequence anymore? 
bleak night
not even good for that
chrome palm
i thought the cast time is longer
charred sandal
it is longer than the gcd
chrome palm
idk i dont play a fucking ranged class
bleak night
one button poisons op holy
chrome palm
idk how that works
bleak night
this was the patch note we needed all along
charred sandal
idk how that works
so... when the button takes longer to cast than to hit again u can hit it again as soon as u finish the cast
chrome palm
i just found out the other day
that other classes get gcd reduction from haste
like
no wonder we dont like haste
wtf
chrome palm
right
charred sandal
if we cared about energy tics, rupture tics or gcd speed maybe we would like haste but the only thing that would maybe be good is the shadow tech gen
and we already got SnD for taht so
tepid trellis
Yeh well our gcd does not get lower with more haste
hazy breach
They could do a whole lot of stuff to make haste better, but im not so sure they want to
charred sandal
Yeh well our gcd does not get lower with more haste
so BL is placebo?
cuz i kinda feel faster ngl
tepid trellis
They could do a whole lot of stuff to make haste better, but im not so sure they...
Not sure id want it either
tepid trellis
cuz i kinda feel faster ngl
Haste just gives you more energy and attack speed
So more sht stacks
charred sandal
makes sense, i thought it did reduce gcd but on hella dr compared to other classes
hazy breach
Not sure id want it either
Would like if BL was atleast slightly better, but ye not enough to make PI good
But idm much anyway
tepid trellis
makes sense, i thought it did reduce gcd but on hella dr compared to other class...
Energy classes have fixed gcds
hazy breach
The idea is that were gated by our energy instead of by our globals
brittle plinth
Outlaw is so much fun
hazy breach
Ye hence why i said the idea 
charred sandal
ahh yeah outlaw gets reduced gcd on AR
tepid trellis
Outlaw is so much fun
To some peeps yeh. Aint my cup of tea
charred sandal
spam classes farm carpal tunnel, i like it every now and then but not as a main fo sure
lilac stag
no patchnotes for rogues, this just means theyre really cooking something up rig...
We got patch notes. #subtlety message
tepid trellis
New 2p goes hard tho
brittle plinth
To some peeps yeh. Aint my cup of tea
Better than sin come on
lilac stag
not really. Assa just boomer mode sub.
bleak night
assa is like 1 apm lower than sub
lilac stag
it’s envenom simulator and pray for blindside
Sub plays faster apm in cds then zero apm
short radish
We got patch notes. https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/316923898501...
oh this is what they were cooking
hazy breach
Tier set probably goes too hard now after buff
bleak night
yeah one button is op for poisons
lilac stag
bring on Goremaw!
bleak night
except it doesnt apply nonlethal
hazy breach
Does anybody remember the last time sub had a good tier set on the ptr?
bleak night
so not actually op
lilac stag
Does anybody remember the last time sub had a good tier set on the ptr? <:garf_s...
It’ll get tuned to 5% chance week 1
but I was trying not to doom
tepid trellis
Better than sin come on
Nope. Id take assa any Day over outlaw. I cannot stand outlaw
charred sandal
crackshot is funny, the sound makes my neurons activate
tepid trellis
I play without Sound
bleak night
crackshot made me stop playing outlaw
charred sandal
my fault didnt u know u were chill like that
charred sandal
crackshot made me stop playing outlaw
my crackshot exp come purely from pvp, i only played outlaw on like BFA
bleak night
kyrian shadowdust outlaw was one of my favorite iterations of a spec ever
and they took it from me
so i retired to assa
charred sandal
kyrian shadowdust outlaw was one of my favorite iterations of a spec ever
kyrian and dust on same sentence sounds controversially spicy
bleak night
well it was outlaw so it just meant you got a fuck ton of cdr
charred sandal
now we got this kyrian 
swift tinsel
wouldn't be surprised to see it dropped down to 25-20% double hit chance
icy pond
Hello, do you know how I can integrate this macro into my cut macro ?
/cast [stance:0] Kidney Shot; Cheap Shot
#showtooltip
/cast [@focus,exists,nodead,harm] "cut spell"
/stopmacro [@focus,exists,nodead,harm]
/focus target
/cleartarget
/targetenemy
/cast "cut spell"
/target focus
/clearfocus
/startattack
swift tinsel
hm, another build
north schooner
what are you even trying to achieve with this macro? it seems overengineered
icy pond
i want integrate the "stance:0" in
charred sandal
im guessing cheapshot on stealth kidney out of stealth... with extra steps to it?
north schooner
I mean what does you expect it to do. From a purpose pov
charred sandal
why u focusing and clearing target like 5 times tho
north schooner
that's why I am asking, I am fairly sure what they want can be achieved in 2-3 lines
charred sandal
ok i know what they want
they want a cheapshot on stealth, kidney out of stealth that can also focus kick...?
nvm idk
north schooner
what I understood is that it KS/CS on focus if that exists, otherwise it uses the appropriate spell on a target which isn't the current target
but tbh I am trying to understand why you would KS/CS a random target if it's not your focus
charred sandal
u could have the stance conditional for stealth/nostealth on KS/CS and then use Modifier:shift for the kick on focus target maybe?
north schooner
"cut spell" is meant to be kick/interrupt then
icy pond
I currently have this macro for the kick.
I use another macro for my stuns, one that sends Kidney Shot when I'm out of stealth and Cheap Shot when I'm under dance/invis.
I'd like to import this into this cut macro
But I can't get the “stance” into it.
north schooner
so you want the KS/CS condition into your kick macro
icy pond
so you want the KS/CS condition into your kick macro
Yes, i have do "#showtooltip
/targetenemy
/cast [stance:0] Aiguillon perfide; Coup bas
/targetlasttarget
/startattack
" But is not perfect like my macro for cut
north schooner
/cast [@focus,nodead,harm, stance:0] Kidney Shot; [@focus,nodead,harm] Cheap Shot
icy pond
thank you i will test 🙂
charred sandal
/cast [stance:0] Kidney Shot ; Cheap Shot
/cast [@focus, modifier:shift] Kick
this one casts kidney shot outta stealth, cheapshot on stealth and focus kick if u press shift
north schooner
having exists in macro conditions like @focus isn't necessary fyi. It is implied
(nodead might also be overkill, I cannot remember if your focus remains on dead targets)
icy pond
I don't want a of modifier, not my goal, but u give me idea
north schooner
when you press the button and you don't have a focus, what do you want it to do? Because currently it will hit a random target around you in that case
icy pond
it's a comfort macro. when you tab you automatically target the cast target.
it works with the “kick”, I tested it with the kidney shoot it works.
I'd just like to include the notion of stance in it.
north schooner
instead of having this novel with focus to get your previous target back, you can do
/cast blabla
/targetlasttarget```except that it blocks in single target spell
charred sandal
it works with the “kick”, I tested it with the kidney shoot it works.
I'd just ...
the thing is, the stance is adding a conditional to the mix, its a "If stance 0 do this else do this"... how can the macro know that when u press it u want to do the stance but sometimes the other stuff, u need to add another conditional so it doesn't overlap with the stance one
or thats how i see it at least
north schooner
in any case if your goal is to adapt your kick macro to be used for KS/CS then just adding the extra stance conditional in the existing square brackets is enough (but you will need it for the "plain /cast in the middle of the macro too)
icy pond
the thing is, the stance is adding a conditional to the mix, its a "If stance 0 ...
it has nothing to do with it. stance is just a state, in this case in thief stance:0 = no stealth and 1 stealth
you can use it and even do all your rogue spells with it
north schooner
full thing would be this:
#showtooltip
/cast [@focus,nodead,harm, stance:0] Kidney Shot; [@focus,nodead,harm] Cheap Shot
/stopmacro [@focus,exists,nodead,harm]
/focus target
/cleartarget
/targetenemy
/cast [stance:0] Kidney Shot; Cheap Shot
/target focus
/clearfocus
/startattack```i have already test that doesn't work :/
charred sandal
have u focused a target
north schooner
which part doesn't work? CSing your focus?
icy pond
i will stay with targetlasttarget
tribal blade
<@146180393941336064> the rogue ptr notes you were hoping for just landed
i mean
do i even need to say anything
this just writes itself 🙂
hazy breach
2p got insano buffed
serene notch
anyone have a FW counter WA they can share? I was trying to configure my Luxthos WA but im lieing to myself i f i can make sense of any of it
icy pond
by the way, what do you think of the rogue sub at s3? trickter look fun with the new set
tribal blade
nvm found it
hazy breach
by the way, what do you think of the rogue sub at s3? trickter look fun with the...
Plays pretty much exactly the same as it does currently
So if you like it currently youll like it in s3
serene notch
!wa
wicked joltBOT
tribal blade
wait what
the 2pc sounds crazy now
so you legit need to proc UB half as much to give twice as many coups
wtf
hazy breach
Its on average the same amount of extra things (actually slightly less because youll end up wasting more of them as you can proc on 3 and overcap now)
tribal blade
yeah i just realized
hazy breach
But its concentrated into your CDs more
tribal blade
i'm stupid
hazy breach
So it is way better
tribal blade
ah ok i see
hazy breach
See: #subtlety message
charred sandal
Its on average the same amount of extra things (actually slightly less because y...
Thats when u whip out the goremaw
charred sandal
charred sandal
maybe they will change the cap from 4 to n
Thay would mean u can do back to back coups no?
tribal blade
damn this is actually a gamba set
brisk onyx
Thay would mean u can do back to back coups no?
Idk how it will be specifically, but dh/shaman have similar mechanisms
hazy breach
damn this is actually a gamba set
Its probably gonna get tuned down a bit
charred sandal
If it required 4 but had no storing cap then u can do some release the trunk monkeh shit and pool 5 coups in a dance
tribal blade
Its probably gonna get tuned down a bit
hopefully they don't go too hard on tuning
lilac stag
hopefully they don't go too hard on tuning
Don’t worry assa will be fine
tepid trellis
Its probably gonna get tuned down a bit
i wish they'd make tier set be like 30%
having meaningful power gains outside of ilvl early season is just way more fun imo
tribal blade
Don’t worry assa will be fine
lol yes it most likely will be
hazy breach
Theres damage amps in the raid, were gonna be fine
tribal blade
now they just need to add UB to storm
also is it that hard to make escalating blades stack beyond 4
north schooner
it is illegal apparently
lilac stag
Theres damage amps in the raid, were gonna be fine <:Surebud:1083827360815665235...
Well he’s basically played assa in raid and m+, so I didn’t want him thinking he would be forced to play sub.
short radish
swift tinsel
also is it that hard to make escalating blades stack beyond 4
We see this next week or the week after trust
Maybe see 2pc nerf next week tho
maiden oar
chrome palm
new tier makes me wanna not BP at all
very rogue friendly comp
2pc change is so fun
swift tinsel
how's it feel in aoe?
chrome palm
kinda same as before a little cramped but
not having to trigger the UB reset unclutters it a bit
since you dont have to fish for that backstab
swift tinsel
nice, W change
I'm gonna try and run stuff this weekend to get a better feel for it
swift tinsel
hoping we see at least one or two changes to stuff like CB and EB in the next couple weeks
some very small QoL changes to those two especially would go a long way
chrome palm
yeah
its not worth holding coup with new tier right?
i find sometimes ill not have fazed up if i hold
tribal blade
mm interesting if you actually would just play sub as a capped class
tribal blade
mm good point
sub most likely is gonna have the same issues as this season
since this tier set just makes you even more hard capped
tepid trellis
we are about to start bp'ing at 3 targets during blades
chrome palm
tribal blade
what if they softcapped nimble and removed the hard cap
all these spells getting big dmg buffs is worrying me
swift tinsel
its not worth holding coup with new tier right?
I tried holding with flag ~20-25 left on cd and it felt pretty good
If you don’t backstab for 20+ sec you’re guaranteed to have fazed when you build after flag+rupture
chrome palm
oh for flag yeah
in m+ feels like
cdr is kinda crazy
you can get away with sending some pretty late dances
and prism makes it al ittle less punishing
swift tinsel
Thats a fun prospect
lusty epoch
I tried holding with flag ~20-25 left on cd and it felt pretty good
i'm also experimenting with it.
I notice if i use one dance between flag, there's no issues with cds being up, but i also only use one dance.
if i use 2 dances the cooldown for the second charge of dance is around 40-50 seconds when flag comes off cooldown, so in order to not having to use 1 or 2 eviscerates outside of dance while in flag you have to wait for like 15 seconds to use flag the second time.
If we continue using dances between flag windows and having to wait all the time with flag off cooldown we can miss out on an entire flag+SB if not careful.
i guess it all depends on the length of the fight
i just noticed you were talking about coup, so my message might not be relevant at all lol...
haughty mural
UB's be hittin'
our hero tree capstone is capstoning
atomic tapir
whats ptr sub build?
chrome palm
whats ptr sub build?
same as live
is what i would say if i were sandbagging. the real answer (dont tell anyone) is || goremaws ||
warm marlin
If you don’t backstab for 20+ sec you’re guaranteed to have fazed when you build...
you get fazed from sectec so you don’t have to hold the ub proc
runic trail
If you don’t backstab for 20+ sec you’re guaranteed to have fazed when you build...
Wait so do we just... Do nothing for the 20 seconds
I may have misread but that was my interpretation of it
hollow spear
Backstabbing is allowed imo
As Ryldd says, we have the sectec insurance
If you have the cdr in a good spot, it's better to start stacking sht for our flag window I guess
runic trail
Waiting for the tech where we're not allowed to auto attack 20 seconds before flag
hollow spear
It's pretty straightforward ig: as long as our cdr isn't good enough to consistently double dance between flags, any excess cdr will be used to hold and prepare for a juicy flag window
As long as there's no other new external factor that's incentivising or punishing
vale pine
good morning, how are things?
runic trail
I had a nosebleed in the middle of my drive in to work so, yeah. It's one of those days
How goes it for you?
hollow spear
Ugh, nosebleeds are such a mess
From what I read here, people seem to be quite happy with the 2p change
There's still the problem with overcapping eb, but they'd have to fix that differently I guess
runic trail
I... Don't understand the trickster hero talent well enough to understand it so I'm just going with what they're saying.
hollow spear
I'd like a baseline capstone change
runic trail
But the change seems decent
warm marlin
If the escalating change happens the tier set will be very strong imo
haughty mural
Isn’t it already right now ?
2pc going from 6% to 13%
Or smth like that I remember eleem saying
warm marlin
ye but like nerf territory potentially
haughty mural
warm marlin
Looks like most of them are around 20% for full 4p atp
haughty mural
S2 flashbacks
haughty mural
UB's be hittin'
I like this dmg breakdown tho
If our 2p jumped to 13% how much is the 4p alone ?
vale osprey
ye but like nerf territory potentially
Surely they don't nerf sub tier in prepatch two tiers in a row? 🙂
Surely
tacit coral
!guide
vale pine
How goes it for you?
it is a bit cooler than last days, so i am not melting anymore
lilac stag
Looks like most of them are around 20% for full 4p atp
Yes but those specs actually do more than bottom 1/3 dmg
Season 2 deja vu
runic trail
it is a bit cooler than last days, so i am not melting anymore
Yeah, temps have dropped to a reasonable level now, can actually go to the gym after work without turning into a puddle
brisk onyx
!bug
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
cyan gull
Hey, guys. I'm in need of some pointers for a rotation when completing Mythic+ dungeons or higher. Anybody willing to help me out?
glacial stag
Drop it here mate. Big brains will answer and it could help ppl with the same issues as you have
vestal escarp
Yeah just ask at this point
haughty mural
Season 2 deja vu
And nerf sectech while we are at it
cloud rover
And nerf sectech while we are at it
Like i said, Gloomblade gaming